Give Me Temptation

The Edmonton Oilers kept rolling last night during preseason, they are now 3-0-0 heading into the weekend and a tough away game against the Winnipeg Jets. Lots of good arrows and that top line was like a cool autumn mist followed by a breath of fresh air. Music!

THE ATHLETIC!

It’s almost here! On Monday (September 24) you are invited to a party at The Rec Room (south side). The Athletic Edmonton group would love to meet you, chat about the new season and the team in general. You can register (we need to know how many are coming, just like your Mom at Christmas) in the link below.

The Athletic Edmonton lineup will be there, including Daniel Nugent-Bowman and Jonathan Willis. Eric Duhatschek will attend! I’ll be there to make sure everyone uses a coaster, and I’d love to see you there. If you haven’t subscribed yet, now’s your chance. Special offer is here, less than $4 a month!

  • New Lowetide: After more Oilers’ cuts, roster decisions coming into focus.
  • New Tyler Dellow: Is Connor McDavid good enough to make a power play with five left shots work?
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Former Oiler Dave Manson on coaching, nicknames and his raspy voice.
  • The Athletic Cross Canada Tour Will hit Edmonton!
  • New Lowetide: RE 18-19: Cam Talbot is key to Oilers success in 2018-19
  • Lowetide: RE 18-19: A case for the defence.
  • Lowetide: RE 18-19: Ryan Strome and the Oilers long journey to competent third and fourth lines
  • Lowetide: RE 18-19: Leon Draisaitl and the pursuit of a second outscoring line in ’18-19
  • Lowetide: RE 18-19: Can the McDavid line lead the 2018-19 Oilers to the playoffs?
  • New Jonathan Willis: Challenge accepted: Young RW’s showcase skill in Oilers preseason game.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Assessing the aftermath from Darnell Nurse’s deal with the Oilers.
  • New Jonathan Willis: Pleasant and unpleasant surprises from Tuesday’s training camp cuts.
  • New Lowetide: Oilers sign Nurse to a two-year deal.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Can Tobias Rieder be the perfect complement to Leon Draisaitl?

DEFENSE LAST NIGHT

  • Klefbom-Larsson went 11-7 together in 9:51, 7-2 in shots. Jerabek-Larsson were 3-1 in 1:36. The top pairing didn’t play much, they were the third pairing in terms of 5-on-5 minutes. Went 7-1 against Lemieux-Dano-Griffith, they were on the ice for the Dano goal but I don’t think that was on the blue. I think we’ll see them again soon. Klefbom shot the puck a lot.
  • Nurse-Bouchard went 24-15 together in 61.54, 15-9 shots, 3-1 goals, 15-5 scoring chances, 9-3 high danger (!!!) scoring chances. Nurse played a solid game to my eye, especially since he is just hours off the plane. His passing wasn’t as skilled as you’d want it to be but he had the puck heading in a good direction. Bouchard is sublime as a passer and thinks the game incredibly well. Leon shot the puck high slot because there was no way he would have seen Bouchard streaking to the net, but he’ll check for him next time. Bouchard was caught at the opp blue when the puck bounced over his stick (leading to a breakaway), on the wrong side of the scorer on the second WPG goal (he needs to be stronger there), and he got lost behind his own net very late because he was deferring to Nurse. He’ll figure it out. I want him to make it for the nine games, Todd McLellan may want to keep his job. Bouchard opens up so many opportunities. We’ll need to see him do these offensive things later in camp, while doing fewer rookie things as the season arrives.
  • Jerabek-Bear went 7-14 in 12:04, 1-0 GF, 3-6 scoring chances. Went 1-9 against the Tanev line, that trio were difficult and this pairing got them for 3:45 (Swedes 7-1 in 5:06, Nurse pairing 5-3 in 4:24). I think Jerabek makes the team, but Bear might end up playing more games in Edmonton during the season. I like Bear’s passing, he and Bouchard give the defense a completely different look.
  • Cam Talbot stopped 20 of 23, .870 4.54. At 5-on-5 he stopped 18 of 20, the Dano goal was less than ideal but he was solid the rest of the way. A big stop early (breakaway) gave the fans a lift, maybe the team too.
  • NHL.com and NaturalStatTrick.

FORWARDS

  • Chiasson-Marody-Aberg went 19-4 in 9:12 (Chiasson-Marody) and 13-4 in 7:15 (Marody-Aberg) last night. That’s some good hockey! Went 11-0 in scoring chances, 7-0 in high dangers. I know Winnipeg didn’t bring the “A” team but that’s some hot tamale. The funny thing is, I don’t think any of these guys are close to being locks to make the team. PC and TMac likely love Chiasson based on their own established preferences, suspect another NHL team will grab him and the Oilers have duplicate skills in Kassian. Aberg played very well last night, not certain it will be enough, and Marody is imo very close to being NHL-ready and could be the first forward recalled.
  • Nuge-McDavid-Rattie took some time to find the range but in the end were dominant, scoring 11 points as a trio. Went 11-8 in 9:49, 4-1 in GF, went 7-5 against Morrissey-Trouba and that’s a tough pairing. A wonderful start to their year. Each man brings something to the line, McDavid’s goal off the rush was a lazer and Rattie started shooting during the anthem. Nuge is the perfect pairing with 97, making sure all hell doesn’t break loose while also being skilled enough to recognize opportunity and head for open ice.
  • Khaira-McLeod-Puljujarvi went 7-7 in 11:12, 5-1 in shots for, 3-1 in scoring chances in 1-1 in HDSC. I liked the line, especially the wingers. McLeod was less noticeable in this amalgamation (as you would expect), but you can see what he brings. Khaira made great plays all over, drawing a penalty on one of his strong offensive pushes. Also solid on PK. Puljujarvi was once again impossible for opponents, especially early. Drew a penalty, scoring, had a goalmouth chance, he also got hit in the teeth with a shoulder and was less noticeable after (I’ll be following reports today). Brilliant young player. He was more offensively dangerous than Leon.
  • Lucic-Draisaitl-Rieder went 10-18 in 9:25, 3-8 in shots and 4-10 in scoring chances. Those numbers came against a group of Winnipeg Jets who won’t make up 50 percent of next year’s roster. Trio went 1-11 against the Tanev line, 2-3 against Morrissey-Trouba. We have to give them more time, I still think JP ends up with Leon this season. Draisaitl was quality on the penalty kill.

ABOUT BOUCHARD

You can see how much he means to the offense, the young man has exceptional vision and touch in this area. It comes down to two things: Can you live with the defensive issues, and will keeping him hurt his development. I have no answer to either, but will admit that the Elvis Costello classic (‘give me temptation‘) has been rolling around in my mind.

TY RATTIE

He drove me nuts when a Portland Winterhawks winger, scoring against the Oil Kings at the most inconvenient times. Jim Matheson has an article up at the EJ about the McDavid line, complete with nice words about Ty Rattie from the captain. I asked McDavid over a year ago about linemates and how long it takes to find chemistry.

  • Connor McDavid on how long it takes to develop chemistry with a new linemate: “It definitely takes a few games, 5-6 games to really get a good idea. To really, fully get chemistry with someone you have to play together for a long, long time. It’s been nice that Leon, Patty and I have been able to stick together for a long time now and I definitely hope that continues. It’s easy to find each other out there, because we’re all pretty comfortable.”

Leon, Patty and I is morphing into Ty, Ryan and 97 and the line has played together enough for the Oilers to count on them at the start of this season. That second line, though. Suspect we’ll be talking about it a lot over the next few months.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy Friday morning, TSN1260. We’ll curse the snow and celebrate the season. Scheduled to appear, beginning at 10:

  • Steve Lansky, BigMouthSports. We’ll chat CFL, Ottawa Senators and the Oilers preseason.
  • Andy McNamara, TSN4Downs. Cleveland rocks!! The Browns beat the Jets and their new quarterback fires rockets to his wideouts. Hallelujah!
  • Andrew Peard, Oil Kings PBP. Preseason predictions for the Oil Kings are surprisingly positive. Is this a playoff team?
  • Kirk Luedeke, Director of Hockey Operations- Omaha Lancers (USHL). We’ll chat about the Boston Bruins and the NAHL Showcase in Blaine, Minnesota.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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198 Responses to "Give Me Temptation"

  1. John Chambers says:

    My skepticism over Rattie is slowly dissolving.

    He may not be a #1 RW, but the man definitely the finishing skills befitting of a top-6 NHL winger.

  2. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Don’t get fooled by recency bias, but if Rattie does perform with RNH and CmD at Maroon levels in the NHL, it will make me very happy, if only because I challenged the narrative that Rattie was only lucky last year, and that he was an AHL’er, and Chia was bad for not aiming higher

    – Recall before this last 2 games the thought of Rattie being Maroon was generally dismissed: most got stuck looking at the past,assuming that’s the future.

    – Rattie was a much more talented goal-scorer than Maroon.

    – Maroon was done, fat and out of hockey basically when Chia got him with salary retained (and older than Rattie is now).

    – This from Rattie: ““I think I have a pretty good grasp of what (McDavid) and (Ryan Nugent-Hopkins) are doing. They are the best with the puck, so why not give it to them and go to the net and find an open space. Hopefully it continues to work.”

    – Really smart player: I’m not fooled by the pre-season, but happy that others are open to the possibility that Rattie could work on that line.

    – This is the first time in years that at the start of the season, every player on our roster is a bona-fide NHL’er, and if a Bouchard makes it, only in a very protected role.

  3. Justenvogt says:

    As Bruce McCurdy would say, a 2nd line of Reider, Drai, JP is written in the stars.

    Let’s make it so!

  4. Clarkenstein says:

    Lord knows it’s nice to watch a game like last night and, yes, those kinds of games give you a bit of an idea on certain players but in reality it only proves that the squad the Oil iced last night would win the Calder Cup.

  5. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Maroon is a much better player than Rattie. I’m hoping Rattie can hold his head above water, but I will reserve judgment until he’s playing against top lines. I didn’t love his 14 games last season, despite his 9P.

    I still envision JP or Yamo locking down the 1RW spot by season’s end.

  6. jtblack says:

    “That second line, though. Suspect we’ll be talking about it a lot over the next few months.”

    This season’s success was always going to be about “How do the Oilers do when 97 is on the bench”.

    97’s line will be so dominant as he heads towards a 125 point season.

    The question is can Leon’s line and Strome’s line saw off on possession and GF%? If they are north of 48%, we are playoff bound. If they are below that, I think you see a repeat of last season.

    Go Rattie Go

  7. tileguy says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Maroon is a much better player than Rattie. I’m hoping Rattie can hold his head above water, but I will reserve judgment until he’s playing against top lines. I didn’t love his 14 games last season, despite his 9P.

    I still envision JP or Yamo locking down the 1RW spot by season’s end.

    What is written in the stars is JP middle six, Yamamoto AHL and Rattie #1 RW.

  8. John Chambers says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    You would imagine he trained his ass off this past summer, cognizant of the once-in-a-thousand-lifetimes opportunity which awaited him.

    So far so good. Many miles of track ahead.

  9. Jaxon says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Maroon is a much better player than Rattie. I’m hoping Rattie can hold his head above water, but I will reserve judgment until he’s playing against top lines. I didn’t love his 14 games last season, despite his 9P.

    I still envision JP or Yamo locking down the 1RW spot by season’s end.

    I don’t know if that’s true. Rattie is still only 25 this season. Maroon had his rookie season with Anaheim when he was 25, too. We didn’t see Maroon get over 40 points and over 20 goals until his 28-year-old season in Edmonton. Rattie has 4 more seasons to get where Maroon was in his career by the time he played with McDavid. If Rattie succeeds there, it gives Edmonton a much deeper team with Puljujarvi helping out Draisaitl’s line. what’s great to see is that there is a lot of talent bubbling under that will be pushing the roster players in the not-so-distant future. Benson, McLeod, Yamamoto, Marody are all very close and Maksomov and Safin may have better camps next fall.

  10. who says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Maroon is a much better player than Rattie. I’m hoping Rattie can hold his head above water, but I will reserve judgment until he’s playing against top lines. I didn’t love his 14 games last season, despite his 9P.

    I still envision JP or Yamo locking down the 1RW spot by season’s end.

    Well first of all they are totally different player types but why do you think Maroon is so much better?
    Other than size and physicality I don’t see him with an edge over Rattie.
    And Rattie is a much better skater in terms of speed and agility. I think this meshes better with the skill sets of his linemates.
    Both Maroon and Rattie have good hands, think the game well, and have a history of scoring at lower levels.
    What makes Maroon the better player?

  11. theDjdj says:

    Draisaitl has a bit of rust. He had his moments though. I like the thought of him and Lucic developing chemistry. Lucic still has the hands he just ran out of the luck last year.

  12. jtblack says:

    LadiesloveSmid,

    “Maroon is a much better player than Rattie.”

    Oh, OK then.

  13. who says:

    We may be headed for a JP Drai Reider second line.
    Problem with that is what do you do with Lucic? I was really hoping he would have a big year. We need to unload that contract!

  14. fuzzy muppet says:

    Ol Drake Cagguila may not make the team.

    He better show well Sunday

  15. Jaxon says:

    Super-duper small sample size but here’s a rundown of some positive stats for Oilers thus far:

    Rattie leading NHL in preseason points (6), 2nd in goals (3), and 1st in assists (3). Nuge tied for 4th in goals and 19th in points along with McLeod and Bouchard with 2pts. McDavid tied for 3rd in points, 1st in assists, first in primary assists. Marody leading the league in shots with 9 in 2 games. Rattie and Puljujarvi are tied for 5th in shots with 7. Marody also leads the league in HDCF with 8 and rebounds created with 3. Ryan McLeod is tied for 2nd in takeaways with 3, and tied for 8th in assists with 2. Benson has blocked 3 shots (13th tied with Kris Russell). Benson has won all 3 faceoffs he’s taken. Khaira is 4-1 on the dot. Brodziak is 9-7 for a 56.25 FO%.

    Takeaways from stats and by eye:
    Rattie is making a damn good case to stick on McDavid’s line.
    Nugent-Hopkins looks great on McDavid’s wing again.
    McDavid might be a hockey player.

    Puljujarvi may take a big step this season.
    I thought Lucic looked just okay last night. I saw some blunders and he still seems to be fighting the puck (although, everyone was fighting a soft puck last night). I’m not overly optimistic that his game will be any different than last year. I know, too early to judge a vet, but after last season you’d think he’d have a bee in his bonnet and want to get a jump on things. He better be one hell of a locker room guy.
    I’d like to see Puljujarvi swap spots with Lucic. I think Rieder would be a better compliment to Draisaitl-Puljujarvi than Draisaitl-Lucic.McLeod is showing well and he may get the 9 games instead of Bouchard as there is less goals against liability as a forward. Could he really get 9?! I don’t know. If so, I didn’t see that coming.

    Marody is a real gamer. Smart, versatile, and involved in the play. He’s been producing without having the best linemates. He’s making good things happen out there. I think his versatility makes him a first call-up candidate for sure and he’s probably pushing Upshall, Chiasson, and Aberg off the roster (I wish he was pushing Caggoila, too).
    Benson has looked great out there and seems like a complete player and seems to be a bit of a leader already. Sent down yesterday, but he’lll be back soon enough, I suspect.
    Yamamoto has been great, but there are other youngsters who are starting to outshine him sometimes. He’ll get more opportunities, but I believe the team sees no harm in sending him down to start the season.

    I think there are a few vets whose jobs are no certain. Chiasson, Aberg, Kassian, and Caggiula haven’t shown well. Caggiula gets a free pass I guess. whereas Aberg is in the perpetual doghouse. Chiasson hasn’t made the team yet and he hasn’t shown much to warrant being signed. Kassian is okay as an energy 4th liner, but inconsistent in that manner and he’s expensive for the 12th forward on the roster. I wouldn’t mind it if Caggiula and Kassian were traded.
    Strome and Brodziak come as advertised. Good for their spot on the roster.
    Khaira looks good out there and can bring the fists if needed (making Kassian even more expendable).
    Upshall’s chances have really been hurt by injury. He better get up to speed quickly.

    Klefbom/Larsson looked great.
    Nurse/Bouchard less so. Nurse seemed to be roaming around a lot and I think that was partly due to his inexperienced partner and trying to do too much. Bouchard seemed to get lost and stand still in his own end sometimes or to wander off. Bouchard is a great passer (but his defensive game needs a fair bit of work).
    Bear/Jarabek. I liked Bear way more than Jarabek last night. Bear can really pass, too. Jarabek wasn’t noticeable until I saw him scrambling at times.
    I see Jones got sent down. I was hoping he’d get a bit longer look. But he has impressed Oilers brass in this preseason. If he continues improvement down there, he’ll be knocking on NHL icetime soon.
    Right now, I like Klefbom-Larsson, Nurse-Benning, Russell-Bear for pairings. Although Gravel has been very steady back there as well. Jarabek hasn’t impressed me much.

    The Koskinen/Montoya battle is a big item and Koskinen hasn’t helped himself. At all. Talbot has looked good, not great, but good enough so far.

  16. theDjdj says:

    You can’t really underestimate how important an emerging Puljujarvi is for this team. People make the connection that Lucic was brought in as a replacement for Hall. I don’t think that’s true. Puljujarvi was the Boy that was Promised. If you were to ask the GM I bet he’d admit that JP dropping was he piece that lead to Hall leaving.

    If JP can start producing closer to his draft profile this team gets a lot closer to balance.jpg

  17. jtblack says:

    Maroon is 30 years old. He has 1 season where he has scored more than 17 Goals. That season he played with the League MVP (Rocket Boots). My guess is Maroon won’t score more than 15 again.

    I think Connor can do the same thing to Rattie’s stats this year. I bet Rattie gets 20 Goals + and that’s with little to no PP time.

    Connor can be flanked by two orange cones and still put up MVP like numbers. BUT, when he is flanked with a little talent and develops some chemistry; look out. If Rattie can be one of those guys, good for him.

  18. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bouchard was kind of what we expected, high event. A sublime passer that will help in the transition game and provide a weapon on offence generally (assuming he can continue with plus play in those areas when the competition is stronger). On the other hand, a number of mistakes that led directly to high danger scoring chances against and goals.

    The questions, to me, are:

    1) Is he giving up more than he provides so that he is not really a net positive on the team early in the season?

    2) Given how much he will give up, can we afford to burn a year of the ELC or a year towards free agency while he develops his defensive awareness and coverage?

    Lets see how his offence translates against better comp and how much he gives up.

    I think he should play in WIN with Russell – good comp with the d-man he is most likely to play with in-season.

  19. OriginalPouzar says:

    I would love if Marody could be the first call-up over Malone.

    At the same time, I would also love for Marody to get considerable AHL time to get used to the pro game and the speed.

    The first call-up will undoubtedly come within a month of the season start and I would like first year pros to get a bit more time in the AHL.

    What a conundrum.

  20. Fuge Udvar says:

    I don’t think this team needs Bouchard. He’s come as billed, polished offensive game and an unpolished defensive game. Between Jerabek, Gravel and potential call ups Lagesson, Bear and Jones they have adequate 6:7 D coverage.

    I just don’t buy that Bouchard has nothing to gain form playing in the OHL. Now that he is drafted he can really focus on the unpretty and less noticeable defensive reads and positioning. I think he would benefit from playing in a league where he can dominate and won’t be just trying to keep up. He is in probably the premier junior program in the world. Might as well take advantage of it. You know he will get monster minutes.

    Nurse’s defensive game was touted much higher than Bouchard’s. Nurse was praised for how well he defended McDavid in the 2015 playoffs. And we all remember his defensive numbers his first year.

    Take him to Europe and following road trip. Let him get a taste for NHL life (and paycheques). Then send him back to London hungry and with clear set of goals.

  21. OriginalPouzar says:

    We always here about “best shape of my life” at this time of year but it may just be true with Rattie. A knock on him in the past was his conditioning and fitness but he looks like a different player this year (competition weakness notwithstanding). He’s fasted and that helps in all three zones. If last night is an indication of how he will skate this year than his boots are no longer an issue.

    He was not a passenger last night and if can prove not to be a drag against real comp, we know he has the skill and IQ to play on that first line.

    He may not be a “true first line player”, however, his ability to keep that spot warm allows the organization to slow-play Yamamoto in the minor leagues.

    I don’t imagine Yamamoto doesn’t play NHL games this year but his contract would slide if he doesn’t play 10 NHL games…..

  22. theDjdj says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Bouchard was kind of what we expected, high event.A sublime passer that will help in the transition game and provide a weapon on offence generally (assuming he can continue with plus play in those areas when the competition is stronger).On the other hand, a number of mistakes that led directly to high danger scoring chances against and goals.

    The questions, to me, are:

    1) Is he giving up more than he provides so that he is not really a net positive on the team early in the season?

    2) Given how much he will give up, can we afford to burn a year of the ELC or a year towards free agency while he develops his defensive awareness and coverage?

    Lets see how his offence translates against better comp and how much he gives up.

    I think he should play in WIN with Russell – good comp with the d-man he is most likely to play with in-season.

    I look at this way really. An ELC is kinda like talent arbitrage. Do you spend the cheap year now or a year from now when the player is better. If he’s not materially improving the team then you send him down.

    The counter argument of course is that a year in junior does little to actually develop the player in which case you’re just asking the player to tread water.

    I don’t have the answer. I know I’d like to see Bouchard stay. Not the same as it being the correct decision.

  23. OriginalPouzar says:

    I am very happy with what we have seen from Ryan McLeod, however, in my opinion, its probably time to assign him to Mississauga. He is not going to play NHL games this year – lets continue the purge.

    He should be in the conversation next year (along with Benson and Marody at least) – beautiful.

  24. dustrock says:

    Didn’t watch LT but read Leavins’ Cult of Hockey review and he thought Aberg and Khaira were poor as well as Jerabek.

    I look at the shots on the 4th line and had to see that as a bad game but different strokes I guess.

  25. OriginalPouzar says:

    I was encouraged with what we saw from Lucic last night.

    Even taking away his PP goal (which was a carbon copy of a number of goals he scored in 2016/17), he made 4-5 strong passes in transition and the offensive zone, one that sent Jesse in alone. Those are the things that made him successful, and that he did consistently, in his pre-Oiler days.

    We know he will add the physicality once the regular season starts so, if he can continue to make the little plays at evens, he will be just fine on that 2nd line.

    Arrow up!

  26. tileguy says:

    Rattie will stay as the #1 RW until he prices himself out of the market. By that time there is enough talent in the organization for someone else to take his spot on a value contract and hopefully we can sell high and get a better return than what we got for Maroon. What is he, about 3 years away from UFA status, until then lets ride him hard.
    Yes yes, the naysayers will say he won’t ge able to keep it up, but his pedigree and the fact that he can smell the money says he will.
    EDIT “smell the money” = what OP said above “A knock on him in the past was his conditioning and fitness but he looks like a different player this year”

  27. McSorley33 says:

    Further to our discussion yesterday about the Oilers vaunted middle 6 forwards…Milan Lucic
    and Tobias Reider and Leon Draisaitl.

    That was a real low bar last night for the 2nd line.

    Is it fair to ask, again, what Milan Lucic is doing occupying a top 6 froward spot in todays NHL?
    ( insert round of of courses – preseason action, veterans )

    Really loved Bouchard. That passing and decision making is sublime.

    Dare to suggest Ryan McLeod has been the 3rd best C in camp? And a revelation maybe?

    The problem seems to be not just his ( McLeod) skating but he has the temerity to keep winning puck battles.

  28. godot10 says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Ol Drake Cagguila may not make the team.

    He better show well Sunday

    Cagiulla be on the day one roster because they need his salary to get as close as possible to the cap, to maximize the LTIR available from Sekera’s injury.

    After that all bets are off.

  29. McSorley33 says:

    Lucic-Draisaitl-Rieder went 10-18 in 9:25, 3-8 in shots and 4-10 in scoring chances. Those numbers came against a group of Winnipeg Jets who won’t make up 50 percent of next year’s roster.
    ********************************************************************************************************
    Indeed.

  30. hunter1909 says:

    Hunter1909’s 2018-19 Death March™ is Back!!

    Here’s how you enter:

    Predict the final points total of the Oilers 2018-19 season.

    Tie break: how many goals does Yakupov score in the KHL?

    That’s it!

    Contest open until puck drop in Europe.

  31. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    McSorley33:
    Further to our discussion yesterday about the Oilers vaunted middle 6 forwards…Milan Lucic
    and Tobias Reider and Leon Draisaitl.

    That was a real low bar last night for the 2nd line.

    Is it fair to ask, again, what Milan Lucic is doing occupying a top 6 froward spot in todays NHL?
    ( insert round of of courses – preseason action, veterans )

    – Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers. LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year

    – This is border-line top-line winger, as poor as his season was. Even if he’s no longer the same guy, and is on a downward turn, his possession numbers remain strong.

    – He’s for sure still even for the harshest crtiic producing at top-6 winger level (and projected to this year). Unless your an elite winger, most top-6 wingers are not perfect.

  32. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Jaxon: I don’t know if that’s true. Rattie is still only 25 this season. Maroon had his rookie season with Anaheim when he was 25, too. We didn’t see Maroon get over 40 points and over 20 goals until his 28-year-old season in Edmonton. Rattie has 4 more seasons to get where Maroon was in his career by the time he played with McDavid. If Rattie succeeds there, it gives Edmonton a much deeper team with Puljujarvi helping out Draisaitl’s line. what’s great to see is that there is a lot of talent bubbling under that will be pushing the roster players in the not-so-distant future. Benson, McLeod, Yamamoto, Marody are all very close and Maksomov and Safin may have better camps next fall.

    Maroon becoming a full time NHLer at 25 is the exception not the rule. I hope Rattie is NHL calibre as much as anyone else, but so far we’re running on a dozen games of a hot PDO. Rattie has no body of work to predict his impact from. Maroon was 2nd line quality the last 2.5 seasons.

    Post 5P pre-season game, this will be an interesting thread to bookmark. Is Rattie in Bakersfield at game 20? or does he have 12 points?

  33. Woogie63 says:

    What problem on the right side of the Oiler line up?

    Rattie, Jesse, Yamamoto, Aberg, Kassian, Strome, Marody, Drake, Reider, Chassion, Leon (in pinch)
    Larsson, Bouchard, Benning, Bear, Pearson, Berglund, Kemp

  34. tileguy says:

    godot10: Cagiulla be on the day one roster because they need his salary to get as close as possible to the cap, to maximize the LTIR available from Sekera’s injury.

    After that all bets are off.

    So much more to hockey than just hockey. Good to know these things when final decisions are made.

  35. jtblack says:

    theDjdj:
    You can’t really underestimate how important an emerging Puljujarvi is for this team. People make the connection that Lucic was brought in as a replacement for Hall. I don’t think that’s true. Puljujarvi was the Boy that was Promised. If you were to ask the GM I bet he’d admit that JP dropping was he piece that lead to Hall leaving.

    If JP can start producing closer to his draft profile this team gets a lot closer to balance.jpg

    I think you are correct. I also think this leads to Oilers Fandom’s Expectations for players.

    Every year, only a handful of players make the NHL as teenagers.
    JP – 20
    KY – 20 (will be soon)
    BOUCH – 19 (will be soon)

    We are just now seeing the start of these players maturing. KY & BOUCH might need another year or 2. They also might not.

    I think the Balance Photo and Cup runs start when these players have arrived & are contributing at a high level, along with the Benson’s, McLeod’s etc ….

  36. godot10 says:

    tileguy:
    Rattie will stay as the #1 RW until he prices himself out of the market. By that time there is enough talent in the organization for someone else to take his spot on a value contract and hopefully we can sell high and get a better return than what we got for Maroon. What is he, about 3 years away from UFA status, until then lets ride him hard.Yes yes, the naysayers will say he won’t ge able to keep it up, but his pedigree and the fact that he can smell the money says he will.

    Rattie is this season and next away from UFA status. He is 25. Since he can opt for arbitration next summer, all future years will be a market price based on performance.

    He is a bad contract waiting to happen.

    If the Oilers defense does eliminate the D-to-D pass and actually pass it up the ice this year, maybe Rattie’s incompetence in the D zone won’t matter as much.

  37. flea says:

    godot10,

    I don’t think this is accurate, this is the “last day of camp” LTIR calculation. If Sekera is LTIR on the last day of camp, then the Oilers get relief from how much over the cap they are. Currently that number would be zero. If they can carry him to the Oct1 roster, and then LTIR him they will get full 5.5M relief.

    I could also be wrong but this was my understanding.

  38. godot10 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers.LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year

    Are you sure you are not leaving out a bunch of left wings listed as centres?

  39. Brantford Boy says:

    Not surprising Rattie fever is here in full swing today… I have always liked him back to junior and was very happy when he was acquired… lets hope it continues.

    Man, if I’m Kassian I am scared this morning… I saw Chiasson very good last night, especially on the PK with Rieder… he seemed to be in 2 places at once, he has boots… and his forecheck on a few shifts was exceptional… I have more time for him truth be told.

  40. who says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers.LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year

    – This is border-line top-line winger, as poor as his season was.Even if he’s no longer the same guy, and is on a downward turn, his possession numbers remain strong.

    – He’s for sure still even for the harshest crtiic producing at top-6 winger level (and projected to this year).Unless your an elite winger, most top-6 wingers are not perfect.

    I think you need to stop looking at point production alone when you rate players. He played most of last year with McDavid, Drai or Nuge as his center. 34 points is a fail.
    Right now Lucic is the 3rd best left winger on this team, behind Nuge and Khaira. If they move Reider to the left side Lucic drops to 4th line in my books.

  41. godot10 says:

    The horses are on the track…B.A.D. The Bottom LIne

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V5Zoe84BjE

  42. tileguy says:

    godot10: Rattie is this season and next away from UFA status.He is 25. Since he can opt for arbitration next summer, all future years will be a market price based on performance.

    He is a bad contract waiting to happen.

    If the Oilers defense does eliminate the D-to-D pass and actually pass it up the ice this year,maybe Rattie’s incompetence in the D zone won’t matter as much.

    That is just so perfect! Two years is enough time to get us valuable playoff experience, ripen yamamoto in the A (or somebody else) and maybe even have some trade value. Go Rattie!

  43. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    godot10,

    – Nope. Only LW’ers. He produced more same as (and possession numbers as well on bad team) than Sheary, Kunitz, Saad, Foligno, Kreider, Boedker, etc.. His sub 7% sh% stands out

    – He was poor (by his standard), and lots to not like (mainly term), but he’s a top-6 winger full-stop.

    http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018&gameType=2&position=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

  44. GBandQ says:

    Brantford Boy,

    i’m thinking Messieurs Kassian AND Drake both need to bring something special in the next week or two.
    If Upshall comes in hot as well, then something’s got to give.

    If there’s one thing that could signify a shift in thinking from an Oiler orgainzational POV, it would be the willingness to make small improvements, like upgrading thru the bottom 6, instead of remaining bullish on certain players (Caggiula was an excellent bet, at the time, but it might be time to send him along).

    Me, i’d rather keep Aberg than Drake.

  45. Pescador says:

    who:
    We may be headed for a JP Drai Reider second line.
    Problem with that is what do you do with Lucic? I was really hoping he would have a big year. We need to unload that contract!

    Lucic on the 3rd line isn’t a terrible problem for the Oilers this season, It would likely mean Puljujarvi is tearing it up and shouldn’t be held back any longer.
    Lowetide & others have mentioned Lucic would benefit from softer competition. Which in turn would help his prospective trade value.
    But I wouldn’t bank on a Lucic trade happening anytime soon, too many dominoes.
    NMC, large cap hit, declining scoring, declining speed, declining need for face punching etc.

  46. Bos8 says:

    I would like Bouchard to do the Pietrangelo route. Nine games spread out over a period of time and then evaluate. The caveat being, the learning curve, lack of on ice mentor ala Sekera.

    I was encouraged by the Puljujarvi usage.

    Chia done good. A whole mess of talent, forward and D simmering in the cauldron.

  47. godot10 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    godot10,

    – Nope.Only LW’ers.He produced more same as (and possession numbers as well on bad team) than Sheary, Kunitz, Saad, Foligno, Kreider, Boedker, etc..His sub 7% sh% stands out

    – He was poor (by his standard), and lots to not like (mainly term), but he’s a top-6 winger full-stop.

    http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&seasonFrom=20172018&seasonTo=20172018&gameType=2&position=L&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points,goals,assists

    Your list is missing left wings who are listed as centres…they take Lucic down to about 60 on the list.

    Rakell
    Henrique
    Skinner
    Nugent-Hopkins
    Guentzel
    Marleau
    Heinan
    Hertl
    Drouin
    Beauvillier

  48. who says:

    Pescador: Lucic on the 3rd line isn’t a terrible problem for the Oilers this season, It would likely mean Puljujarvi is tearing it up and shouldn’t be held back any longer.
    Lowetide & others have mentioned Lucic would benefit from softer competition. Which in turn would help his prospective trade value.
    But I wouldn’t bank on a Lucic trade happening anytime soon, too many dominoes.
    NMC, large cap hit, declining scoring, declining speed, declining need for face punching etc.

    But is Lucic on the 4th line a problem?
    Cause Khaira is better.

  49. godot10 says:

    Bos8:
    I would like Bouchard to do the Pietrangelo route.Nine games spread out over a period of time and then evaluate.The caveat being, the learning curve, lack of on ice mentor ala Sekera.

    I was encouraged by the Puljujarvi usage.

    Chia done good.A whole mess of talent, forward and D simmering in the cauldron.

    This would not be a good decision when the option is the London Knights and the World Juniors.

  50. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    godot10: Your list is missing centre who play left wing…they take Lucic down to about 60 on the list.

    Rakell
    Henrique
    Skinner
    Nugent-Hopkins
    Guentzel
    Marleau
    Heinan
    Hertl
    Drouin
    Beauvillier

    – But he’s not a centre who plays LW…He’s just a LW

    – Just look at numbers for Lucic, and what he does: forget Hall, forget his term.

    – He’s a top-6 winger on every team in the league IMO. He’s not the pressing problem, and if he gets better great (he can’t likely be worse this upcoming year, can he?)

    – The focus on his (and Caggulia for that matter), contribution to the team’s success is not commensurate with where they are

  51. McSorley33 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers. LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year
    **********************************************************************************************************
    On a team with Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl – Lucic went 28 games without scoring a
    5 on 5 goal.

    That is really hard to do. I attribute this to something more that just rotten luck.

    I don’t think it is a reach to suggest Milan cannot keep up with top 6 wingers in the league anymore.

    Now, add the entry of Ramsus Dahlen, Elias Petterson, etc, etc, etc, …into the NHL for Milan to chase/forecheck.

  52. Psyche says:

    I was watching for the defence passing to the forwards quicker and less D to D. The players rumoured to be capable at this entering camp (Bouchard, Jerabek, Bear, Klefbom) did this well. I did not see Larsson make a pass attempt to a forward. He passed D to D every time. I appreciate his defensive play, but he lacks the confidence to pass to the forwards.

  53. Bos8 says:

    godot10: This would not be a good decision when the option is the London Knights and the World Juniors.

    The product after three years of London Knights is slanted to offense. Different priorities on the teams. Nine games spread out does not preclude him from the World Juniors and return to the Knights. The objective is developing a top NHL D and how to best optimize that.

  54. Side says:

    McSorley33:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers. LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year
    **********************************************************************************************************
    On a team with Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl – Lucic went 28 games without scoring a
    5 on 5 goal.

    That is really hard to do. I attribute this to something more that just rotten luck.

    I don’t think it is a reach to suggest Milan cannot keep up with top 6 wingers in the league anymore.

    Now, add the entry of Ramsus Dahlen, Elias Petterson, etc, etc, etc, …into the NHL for Milan to chase/forecheck.

    Yeah but Milan also has a history of scoring without playing with McDavid and Draisaitl.

    Lucic was also producing at a decent rate up until Christmas break last year.

    I find it hard to believe that after the Christmas break, Lucic suddenly could not “keep up” with the entire crop of wingers in the league. I’m guessing it was more related to the trade request and not his playing ability.

  55. VOR says:

    Woodguy,

    Yes I intended my assumption, that Oilers management aren’t complete idiots as a type of Ceteris Parabus statement, to be specific I intended what is known as a Hypotehtical Exclusion. I have no idea (and I suspect no one else here does either) how smart the Oilers management team are. But given I want to analyze their thinking I have to assume they can think as well as us other average humans.

    I am attempting to focus on heuristics and biases in decision making at all levels of hockey. Heuristic analysis relies on the idea that all humans find thinking hard and default to using a series of rules of thumb to simplify the world. But this makes us very vulnerable to bias in our decision making.

    Consider the incredibly useful heuristic – the past predicts the future. Great rule of thumb but not only does it need Ceteris Parabus Laws but it also opens the door to various biases. I think we saw this in the recent history of the Oilers.

    Following 2016-2017 the Oilers management set out to figure out how to get better (win a Cup) and as well meant as that was there analysis was flawed by two biases: 1. Hindsight bias (where you let the knowledge of the outcome colour your analysis of why that outcome actually occurred) and 2. Recency bias (where you temporally limit your analysis to the very recent past and lose valuable data points). The result was a 2017-2018 Oilers team without enough veteran forwards.

  56. fishman says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Bouchard was kind of what we expected, high event.A sublime passer that will help in the transition game and provide a weapon on offence generally (assuming he can continue with plus play in those areas when the competition is stronger).On the other hand, a number of mistakes that led directly to high danger scoring chances against and goals.

    The questions, to me, are:

    1) Is he giving up more than he provides so that he is not really a net positive on the team early in the season?

    2) Given how much he will give up, can we afford to burn a year of the ELC or a year towards free agency while he develops his defensive awareness and coverage?

    Lets see how his offence translates against better comp and how much he gives up.

    I think he should play in WIN with Russell – good comp with the d-man he is most likely to play with in-season.

    OP think you have nailed it on Bouchard. If his defensive liabilities out way his offensive contributions does it make sense to keep him with the big club this year???? I guess a big question would be will his defence improve more substantially playing spot duty with the big club and getting great defensive coaching (Yawney) or going back to London and dominating???? Wish I knew! Great post!

  57. Lowetide says:

    dustrock:
    Didn’t watch LT but read Leavins’ Cult of Hockey review and he thought Aberg and Khaira were pooras well as Jerabek.

    I look at the shots on the 4th line and had to see that as a bad game but different strokes I guess.

    I would disagree with Mr. Leavins on all counts but that’s the beauty of having more than one report.

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    Today is the first date that players can be put on waivers in order to loan them.

    Does Keegan Lowe survive the day?

  59. Woogie63 says:

    godot10: This would not be a good decision when the option is the London Knights and the World Juniors.

    London Knights has signed Adam Boqvist who is another wonderboy RHD, this would change the Evan Bouchard role on the team.

    CHB might have other ideas for Boqvist, in pre-season he is running a powerplay and has been assigned number 27 as rookie.

  60. dustrock says:

    Lowetide: I would disagree with Mr. Leavins on all counts but that’s the beauty of having more than one report.

    I trust Bruce the most by an order of magnitude at Cult of Hockey but I find even with Leavins and Staples I generally agree with their comments. I was surprised at the negativity.

    I don’t know what else you would want from your 4th line when they are absolutely caving the opposition.

    If that’s a bad game by Aberg, I don’t know what they want from him.

  61. Jaxon says:

    Waivers today? Keep an eye on RHD Justin Holl. He’s be a great 3RD or #7D who could push our step in.

  62. Oilman99 says:

    GBandQ:
    Brantford Boy,

    i’m thinking Messieurs Kassian AND Drake both need to bring something special in the next week or two.
    If Upshall comes in hot as well, then something’s got to give.

    If there’s one thing that could signify a shift in thinking from an Oiler orgainzational POV, it would be the willingness to make small improvements, like upgrading thru the bottom 6, instead of remaining bullish on certain players (Caggiula was an excellent bet, at the time, but it might be time to send him along).

    Me, i’d rather keep Aberg than Drake.

    Chiasson is out playing Kassian so far, Kass needs to get his boots moving fast or it could be hastalavista. Aberg needs to show more than one game if he is going push Drake down,here’s hoping he gets the chance.

  63. Oilman99 says:

    Lowetide: I would disagree with Mr. Leavins on all counts but that’s the beauty of having more than one report.

    Did Leavins watch the same game as us?

  64. Oilman99 says:

    McSorley33:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers. LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year
    **********************************************************************************************************
    On a team with Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl – Lucic went 28 games without scoring a
    5 on 5 goal.

    That is really hard to do. I attribute this to something more that just rotten luck.

    I don’t think it is a reach to suggest Milan cannot keep up with top 6 wingers in the league anymore.

    Now, add the entry of Ramsus Dahlen, Elias Petterson, etc, etc, etc, …into the NHL for Milan to chase/forecheck.

    Slow boots,and hands of steel have contributed to Lucic’s demise. It was obvious llast year he couldn’t take a pass or make a pass, l would hope he worked on these skills all summer.

  65. hunter1909 says:

    Bos8: I would like Bouchard to do the Pietrangelo route. Nine games spread out over a period of time and then evaluate. The caveat being, the learning curve, lack of on ice mentor ala Sekera.

    The Oilers have a dude Paul Coffey who knows a thing or two about defending.

    Combined with the fact the Oilers never develop anyone slowly unless they’re forced to, are in dire need of defensive help now before management decks are decimated, take this to the bank: Bouchard starts the season as an Oiler.

    Paired with future all-star Darnell Nurse.

    By Christmas they’re going to be the most talked about new defence pairing in hockey.

    I’m the coach and I make sure they play as much as possible with JP. Why? JP is a wrecking ball, like they are.

    Three killers on ice all at once, wow.

  66. 106 and 106 says:

    Oilman99,

    Lucic said it was all mental.

    We know he can take and make a pass, he’s done it his entire life, in the best league in the world, but if you have doubts, the shivers, or a drop in confidence, you can’t handle the biscuit.

    Skills can be emotional and non-physical skills, so i’m lumping it in with those skills.

  67. selective sam poll says:

    VOR,

    Thanks to VOR for posting his reply here for all of us to see. I always appreciate his true insights in the athletic world. I see so many others with comments brimming over the top with biases. Would be fine to acknowledge our biases. But doing so they think we’ll respect the less when it’s quite the opposite.

    The one particular issue I have to endure here is reading some of their opinions masqueraded as facts. Simply because they sometimes they selectively picked out data points to prove their argument or fit their narrative. Ie chia is an idiot all because he traded Hall and Eberle. Furthering the pain. I see some posters were being asked to not post here, like chachi and recently Richard Ss
    Just because their opinion was different. Not good

  68. jtblack says:

    Fuge Udvar,

    “Nurse’s defensive game was touted much higher than Bouchard’s. Nurse was praised for how well he defended McDavid in the 2015 playoffs”

    Was he? Where did you get that info?

    Erie beat SSM in a 6 game series in the 2015 OHL Playoffs.

    Connor McDavid had 8 G 11 A = 19 Points in the series.

    So if you call that defending well ………….

  69. tileguy says:

    hunter1909,

    If I took that to the bank they would put a 21 day hold on it.

  70. hunter1909 says:

    selective sam poll: one particular issue I have to endure here is reading some of their opinions masqueraded as facts. Simply because they sometimes they selectively picked out data points to prove their argument or fit their narrative. Ie chia is an idiot all because he traded Hall and Eberle.

    He should have kept Eberle for at least another season.

    Trading the current Hart Trophy winner is, by any sane definition, idiotic management.

  71. Richard S.S. says:

    LadiesloveSmid,

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=105400
    On what planet is Patrick Maroon going to be better than Ty Rattie.
    He’s older, slower, costs more, doesn’t skate as well and can’t score much.
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118248
    Rattie’s younger, faster, cheaper, skates well and is a natural scorer.

  72. ashley says:

    CMD and Nuge is a lethal combination. They are going to keep opposing defensemen and coaches up at night.

    *Patting-myself-on-the-back warning*: suggested this 18 months ago in this thread.

    https://lowetide.ca/2017/03/09/tommy-gun/

    If only Todd had tried it then. We might have had a shot at Stanley.

    Better late than never, I guess.

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    flea:
    godot10,

    I don’t think this is accurate, this is the “last day of camp” LTIR calculation. If Sekera is LTIR on the last day of camp, then the Oilers get relief from how much over the cap they are. Currently that number would be zero. If they can carry him to the Oct1 roster, and then LTIR him they will get full 5.5M relief.

    I could also be wrong but this was my understanding.

    The Oilers are cap compliant for day 1 so Sekera will be placed on LTIR during the season.

    The amount of LTIR cushion is determined at the time the player is placed on LTIR.

    The amount of cushion that we have will be Sekera’s $5.5M less any cap space we have at the time he is placed on LTIR.

    Godot is correct, the way to maximize the LTIR cushion is to be as close to the cap as possible when placing the player on LTIR.

    At the same time, using LTIR cap relief (going over $79.5M) is an ineffective and highly risky way to manage the cap for a number of reasons including:

    – LTIR does not provide any cushion for performance bonuses – if we are using LTIR relief and Jesse (or another) vests any of his performance bonuses, we will have a cap penalty for next season (Yamamoto has performance bonuses as well ($250K potential) as does Bouchard)

    – having to make dispositions if Sekera is to be activated this year (no cap space is being accrued to help of using LTIR)

    – any acquisition with term would need to fit under the cap along with Sekera’s $5.5M next season (even if Sekera will be placed on LTIR again and never plays again)

    – accruing zero cap space to make any in-season acquisitions (and would only be able to make acquisitions with reference to any space we have under the cushion – but not pro-rated – for example, if we are $1M under the increased cap we have, we could only acquire a $1M player at any point in the year. This is different than a non-LTIR scenario where cap space of $1M, due to daily accrual, would lead to the ability to acquire an apx. $5M player at the deadline)

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Your list is missing left wingswho are listed as centres…they take Lucic down to about 60 on the list.

    Rakell
    Henrique
    Skinner
    Nugent-Hopkins
    Guentzel
    Marleau
    Heinan
    Hertl
    Drouin
    Beauvillier

    I won’t go through the list to see if this applies to anyone else but you know this isn’t honest with respect to a guy like Nuge who played apx 85% of his minutes as a center last year, not a left winger.

  75. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Chiasson is out playing Kassian so far, Kass needs to get his boots moving fast or it could be hastalavista. Aberg needs to show more than one game if he is going push Drake down,here’s hoping he gets the chance.

    I did like Chiasson’s game last night, more than I expected.

    Yes, he is outplaying Kass but Kass has had one game – he was not good in that game, granted, but I will give him a bit more rope.

  76. Lowetide says:

    Mitch Callahan and Ryan Stanton on waivers, they’ll be sent out tomorrow after clearing. Probably.

  77. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    LadiesloveSmid,

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=105400
    On what planet is Patrick Maroon going to be better than Ty Rattie.
    He’s older, slower, costs more, doesn’t skate as well and can’t score much.
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118248
    Rattie’s younger, faster, cheaper, skates well and is a natural scorer.

    On the planet where one is an established NHL player and one has proven to be no more than a career AHLer. Not to mention that the “better” doesn’t necessarily equate to more points.

    Rattie looked very good last year – a totally different player than he was in the past (from what I’ve seen). He very well might be better this year, and I hope he is, he simply hasn’t proven to be…..yet.

  78. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Richard S.S.:
    LadiesloveSmid,

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=105400
    On what planet is Patrick Maroon going to be better than Ty Rattie.
    He’s older, slower, costs more, doesn’t skate as well and can’t score much.
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=118248
    Rattie’s younger, faster, cheaper, skates well and is a natural scorer.

    I do suppose he has topped 9P in a season now. McDavid may have helped.

  79. OriginalPouzar says:

    For those upset at management for letting him go, Joey Laleggia on waivers.

  80. Pescador says:

    who: But is Lucic on the 4th line a problem?
    Cause Khaira is better.

    Leadfarmer disagrees with that, possibly Ryan as well.
    If your counting Cap dollars spent for production,
    No question Khaira,
    We should probably give Lucic what?
    3-4 games before we write him off completely though

  81. who says:

    Pescador: Leadfarmer disagrees with that, possibly Ryan as well.
    If your counting Cap dollars spent for production,
    No question Khaira,
    We should probably give Lucic what?
    3-4 games before we write him off completely though

    Believe me, I’m pulling for him. I think Lucic’s season is critical for this team.
    If he can get back to being a 20+ goal, 50+ point power winger 2 good things could happen.
    1. The Oilers will be a better team because of it.
    2. If Lucic, or his wife, are really willing to waive their NMC the Oilers may be able to trade him next summer without a huge sweetener.
    Point number 2 is the most important one but point number 1 has to happen to make it possible.
    I am basing my opinion on both players body of work in Edmonton regardless of contract. I think Khaira has been the better player and if he gotten Lucic’s ice time and linemates his numbers would be at least similar. And his overall game is much better.

  82. Jethro Tull says:

    hunter1909: He should have kept Eberle for at least another season.

    Trading the current Hart Trophy winner is, by any sane definition, idiotic management.

    Nice presentism.

    Hall had potential. We all knew that. Hall was awesome for us. No-one disputes that. But he wasn’t even close to winning the Hart with us.

  83. VOR says:

    selective sam poll:
    VOR,

    Thanks to VOR for posting his reply here for all of us to see. I always appreciate his true insights in the athletic world. I see so many others with comments brimming over the top with biases. Would be fine to acknowledgeour biases. But doing so they think we’ll respect the less when it’s quite the opposite.

    The one particular issue I have to endure here is reading some of their opinions masqueraded as facts. Simply because they sometimes they selectively picked out data points to prove their argument or fit their narrative.Ie chia is an idiot all because he traded Hall and Eberle.Furthering the pain. I see some posters were being asked to not post here, like chachi and recently Richard Ss
    Just because their opinion was different. Not good

    I am filled with biases. We all are. In some ways it is our biases that shape our character and inform our lives.

    But being biased is a double edged sword. My bias for incredibly bright women led me to my wife and thirty years of marriage. It also means that for thirty years I haven’t gotten through one day without being challenged and tested by a super bright mind.

    A few years ago my wife introduced me to a heuristic and its attendant biases that I didn’t even know existed. It is called the “Quitting Threshold” Heuristic. We humans have a tendency to narrow our focus and obsess over the item we are focusing on. But we all come with a quitting threshold. We stop looking, stop trying to solve a problem, we quit paying attention as soon as we detect a slowing in the recruitment of new information, or as we are going to see, when a bias causes us to assume we are wasting our time and effort.

    This heuristic shows up in hockey in a lot of ways. I am fascinated by drafting and particularly drafting inefficiencies. There are a number of draft stories that show how the Quitting Threshold works and particularly how it opens the door to some very nasty biases. Consider for example the story of the paunchy kid.

    At every level of hockey the paunchy kid couldn’t catch a break. He never got drafted into major junior. He was told even then it was because he was fat. At least 15 pro scouts passed on him and he was never drafted. The reason was “he just didn’t look like a hockey player” as the man who changed his life is fond of saying.

    So how did the paunchy kid end up in the NHL Hall of Fame and how did so many scouts get it wrong. Well the Quitting Threshold works like this: we look for reasons to stop thinking. Scouts saw a paunchy kid. There is a wide spread bias, fat people can’t be jocks. We see it here in the comments section all the time. NHL scouts went “fat kid, fat kids do not play hockey, quit thinking about this kid, stop viewing him.”

    Then came Paul Allen. He wasn’t a pro scout. He wasn’t really a scout at all. He was a coach.

    Paul looked at the paunchy kid and then looked some more. Then he called his colleague Bill Greer, another coach. Bill came and looked and saw a paunchy kid and went on looking. Bill and Paul convinced their boss Mike Adessa to come and look. He came, he saw a paunchy kid, and he recruited that kid for the college program he coached.

    So why didn’t Paul Allen, Bill Greer, and Mike Adessa share the bias against fat kids?

    They were aware of something none of the pro scouts were. At the time there was this famous hockey player who was a pretty good 800 yard runner dominating hockey, Wayne Gretzky. Guess what Paul and Bill and Mike knew? Paunchy kid was a great 800 meter runner. It was enough to keep them looking long after all the scouts stopped.

    Mike, Paul, and Bill were the coaching staff of the RPI Engineers. And the paunchy kid thrived there. And along the way became the fittest of the fit, Adam Oates.

    You can read all about it here.

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/nov/11/adam-oates-capitals-built-hall-of-fame-career/

    Quitting thresholds and the biases that trigger them explain not just this story but many of the most famous draft inefficiencies of all time.

  84. Bank Shot says:

    I thought Rieder was pretty invisible last night. 33% corsi and no shots on net. Guy would have been pilloried if his name was Drake after that performance.

    Bouchard was the goat on two goals against. How fast can he learn?

    I’m still undecided on Puljuvari. He looks good in spurts. I find he is still doing some odd stuff and I’m not sure his skill set is top six. Everyone is seeing him really well, but how much of that is our desire to see him thrive.

    A breakout year by him would really solve a lot of problems on this team. Is it actually going to happen?

  85. Bag of Pucks says:

    New stat.

    Paunchy/Overall Word Count

    VOR the current record holder

  86. Henry says:

    Side: Yeah but Milan also has a history of scoring without playing with McDavid and Draisaitl.

    Lucic was also producing at a decent rate up until Christmas break last year.

    I find it hard to believe that after the Christmas break, Lucic suddenly could not “keep up” with the entire crop of wingers in the league.I’m guessing it was more related to the trade request and not his playing ability.

    I remember this as well. Lucic was very, very good from mid-November to about Christmas. Then he hit a couple posts on open nets and dark clouds formed continuing the rest of the year. It’s clearly hard to pencil in what to expect from this season, but there is a strong player in there somewhere. I hope it comes out and a Draisatl, Lucic, Pulji can wear out a team shifts at a time.

  87. GMB3 says:

    Bank Shot:
    I thought Rieder was pretty invisible last night. 33% corsi and no shots on net. Guy would have been pilloried if his name was Drake after that performance.

    Bouchard was the goat on two goals against. How fast can he learn?

    I’m still undecided on Puljuvari. He looks good in spurts. I find he is still doing some odd stuff and I’m not sure his skill set is top six. Everyone is seeing him really well, but how much of that is our desire to see him thrive.

    A breakout year by him would really solve a lot of problems on this team. Is it actually going to happen?

    I agree with this take on JP. He leaves you scratching your head out there at times.

  88. digger50 says:

    Just sitting thinking that while we all seem to be focused on what’s in front of us, (fantastic preseason), there is haymaker coming in from the blind side. (Peter is on the phones)

  89. Paddy Morans Jockstrap says:

    Bank Shot:
    I thought Rieder was pretty invisible last night. 33% corsi and no shots on net. Guy would have been pilloried if his name was Drake after that performance.

    Bouchard was the goat on two goals against. How fast can he learn?

    I’m still undecided on Puljuvari. He looks good in spurts. I find he is still doing some odd stuff and I’m not sure his skill set is top six. Everyone is seeing him really well, but how much of that is our desire to see him thrive.

    A breakout year by him would really solve a lot of problems on this team. Is it actually going to happen?

    Agree that Rieder was pretty much invisible and he needs to do much more if he expects top 6 minutes.

    Keep JP with Strome and Khaira for now, but at some point, having JP in the OV spot firing one-timers off Drai’s sweet feeds is going to go ballistic. Drai-JP is the future 2nd line anchor pair but not quite yet.

    Not sure what to do with Bouchard. His issues as I see them relate to handling the speed, size, smarts and effort level of NHL players. He needs to play harder, faster and smarter, but I’m not sure the CHL is the best place to achieve that as he kills that league already. AHL would be perfect this season but not available. This is not a season to mess around with young guys who are not ready though.

    I like Chiasson a lot and waiting to see Upshall. Seems like we have a 5 way battle for 3 jobs on the 4th line and pressbox: Kassian, Caggiula, Aberg, Chiasson and Upshall. You could probably waive Aberg and if he gets plucked then oh well. Kassian likely has some market value for a team seeking toughness if he doesn’t get his shyte together ASAP. I would sell Caggiula and his 13 goal season high now without question as he is a horrific defensive player. Waiting to see Upshall but he seems a perfect pressbox and glue guy. If Upshall looks good then I would waive Aberg, trade Caggiula and keep the vets.

    Nice to see real competition for spots in the lineup and roster.

  90. digger50 says:

    McSorley33:
    Further to our discussion yesterday about the Oilers vaunted middle 6 forwards…Milan Lucic
    and Tobias Reider and Leon Draisaitl.

    That was a real low bar last night for the 2nd line.

    Is it fair to ask, again, what Milan Lucic is doing occupying a top 6 froward spot in todays NHL?
    ( insert round of of courses – preseason action, veterans )

    Really loved Bouchard. That passing and decision making is sublime.

    Dare to suggest Ryan McLeod has been the 3rd best C in camp? And a revelation maybe?

    The problem seems to be not just his ( McLeod) skating but he has the temerity to keep winning puck battles.

    Dam temerity.

    I’m going to have to look it up.

  91. Oilin4 says:

    John Chambers:
    My skepticism over Rattie is slowly dissolving.

    He may not be a #1 RW, but the man definitely the finishing skills befitting of a top-6 NHL winger.

    Agreed. I worry about his defense. I can’t remember who it was, but someone posted a blog detailing his lack of effort on defense in game film last year and it was scary. If that’s what he’s like while auditioning for the most coveted job in the hockey world…..

  92. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I won’t go through the list to see if this applies to anyone else but you know this isn’t honest with respect to a guy like Nuge who played apx 85% of his minutes as a center last year, not a left winger.

    I doubt it was 85%. He played over a month with McDavid and was injured for another month.

  93. Oilin4 says:

    fuzzy muppet: Chambers

    If only this would happen. Chia or TMac have the blinders with this guy. He’ll make it no matter.

  94. godot10 says:

    Lowetide:
    Mitch Callahan and Ryan Stanton on waivers, they’ll be sent out tomorrow after clearing. Probably.

    Todd Nelson did a lot of “turd polishing” on Callahan, to sucker the Chiarellli to sign him away from Grand Rapids on a two year NHL contract.

  95. tileguy says:

    VOR,

    Why did Paul, Bill and Mike know the fat kid was a fantastic 800m runner and the other scouts didn’t? Where did they get this bit of information that kept them looking? I guess it is who you know, not what you know, or maybe the luck of the Irish.

  96. selective sam poll says:

    VOR,

    VOR
    I’m going back a few days on your post re Human Factors by Kim Vincente. He was my Industrial Engineering professor at U of T back in the early 90’s. There were many industrial applications from these theories, of which hockey could be included to prevent player “mistakes”. Cockpits were built to minimize pilot operator errors and factory workers stations were designed for similar outcomes. So why not hockey? Why can’t coaches develop system(s) to minimize player errors? The smart coaches already have in some way or form right? with the proliferation of technology these applications are going to accelerate the rollout. Perhaps as the old dinos like Randy Carlyle die off we should get more and more coaches to adapt to the new world.

    Coming back to biases…is that we all have biases and that’s ok. I was troubled by some of the analytics folks waving their spreadsheet around like a nuclear bomb. They only have a small part of the picture but presenting it as the holy grail and being over confident of their whole bag of goodies. That saying “little information is dangerous”. sigh…
    bah, I’m just biased myself. See! it’s not that hard to admit.

    VOR, you provide much needed balance on this site, I hope you hang around.

  97. Jaxon says:

    godot10: I doubt it was 85%.He played over a month with McDavid and was injured for another month.

    Game 68 was Nuge’s first on McDavid’s wing. So 15 games. 15/62 = 24% of his season on McDavid’s wing, 76% not on his wing.

  98. tileguy says:

    Now that we are all admitting things, I would like to say I was a big fan of Omark as well.

  99. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bank Shot:
    I thought Rieder was pretty invisible last night. 33% corsi and no shots on net. Guy would have been pilloried if his name was Drake after that performance.

    Bouchard was the goat on two goals against. How fast can he learn?

    I’m still undecided on Puljuvari. He looks good in spurts. I find he is still doing some odd stuff and I’m not sure his skill set is top six. Everyone is seeing him really well, but how much of that is our desire to see him thrive.

    A breakout year by him would really solve a lot of problems on this team. Is it actually going to happen?

    I agree with much of this. JP is better then he was last year, but he doesn’t appear to go to the quiet spaces in the o-zone. It’s like he gravitates to high traffic areas.

  100. godot10 says:

    Jaxon: Game 68 was Nuge’s first on McDavid’s wing. So 15 games. 15/62 = 24% of his season on McDavid’s wing, 76% not on his wing.

    But he got more than 24% of his points on left wing.

  101. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    VOR:
    Woodguy,

    Yes I intended my assumption, that Oilers management aren’t complete idiots as a type of Ceteris Parabus statement, to be specific I intended what is known as a Hypotehtical Exclusion. I have no idea (and I suspect no one else here does either) how smart the Oilers management team are. But given I want to analyze their thinking I have to assume they can think as well as us other average humans.

    I am attempting to focus on heuristics and biases in decision making at all levels of hockey. Heuristic analysis relies on the idea that all humans find thinking hard and default to using a series of rules of thumb to simplify the world. But this makes us very vulnerable to bias in our decision making.

    Consider the incredibly useful heuristic – the past predicts the future. Great rule of thumb but not only does it need Ceteris Parabus Laws but it also opens the door to various biases. I think we saw this in the recent history of the Oilers.

    Following 2016-2017 the Oilers management set out to figure out how to get better (win a Cup) and as well meant as that was there analysis was flawed by two biases: 1. Hindsight bias (where you let the knowledge of the outcome colour your analysis of why that outcome actually occurred) and 2. Recency bias (where you temporally limit your analysis to the very recent past and lose valuable data points). The result was a 2017-2018 Oilers team without enough veteran forwards.

    Thanks Vor.

    When I re-read it this morning that’s what I figured.

    Initial reading I took it to a different place.

  102. VOR says:

    tileguy:
    VOR,

    Why did Paul, Bill and Mike know the fat kid was a fantastic 800m runner and the other scouts didn’t? Where did they get this bit of information that kept them looking? I guess it is who you know, not what you know, or maybe the luck of the Irish.

    tileguy:
    VOR,

    Why did Paul, Bill and Mike know the fat kid was a fantastic 800m runner and the other scouts didn’t? Where did they get this bit of information that kept them looking? I guess it is who you know, not what you know, or maybe the luck of the Irish.

    You have to understand Track and Field had almost no public profile when Oates was running. People knew about Gretzky running 800s only because he was a mega star and well, his Dad told them. Nobody was sitting in the stands watching 800 yard/meter races looking for future hockey stars or even future 800 meter racers.

    However, once a Track jock always a Track jock. We keep going to Track meets years after we have stopped competing. My understanding is Paul Allen is a former Track jock and had actually seen Oates run.

    I don’t know if somebody tipped him off and thus he was there looking (so who you know) or he was just there being a fan (luck of the Irish). I just know the RPI coaching staff believe Oates got passed over in the draft because he didn’t look like a hockey player and that his 800 performances were a big part of why they thought differently.

    I was not trying to say that RPIs staff was better at scouting. Quite the contrary. Any scout without the bias would have noticed the incredible vision Oates was already displaying and probably taken a flyer. Making it a good example of quitting threshold and biases.

  103. Woogie63 says:

    Ty here is how it is going to be … if you score goals, get the puck out of the corner and hustle back on the backcheck 65+ games for 17 minutes a game you will make $12M over the next 4 years …if you don’t , good luck in Airdrie.

  104. Jaxon says:

    godot10: But he got more than 24% of his points on left wing.

    I wasn’t trying to land on either side of your debate, just providing the facts.

  105. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bank Shot:
    I thought Rieder was pretty invisible last night. 33% corsi and no shots on net. Guy would have been pilloried if his name was Drake after that performance.

    Bouchard was the goat on two goals against. How fast can he learn?

    I’m still undecided on Puljuvari. He looks good in spurts. I find he is still doing some odd stuff and I’m not sure his skill set is top six. Everyone is seeing him really well, but how much of that is our desire to see him thrive.

    A breakout year by him would really solve a lot of problems on this team. Is it actually going to happen?

    Agreed.

    That whole line was bad.

    Drai was much better at getting back into defensive position when the Dmen were moving up on the play but he still doesn’t know who to defend when there.

    His checks got a lot of good looks last night and those guys where WPG’s 4th line or worse.

  106. jm363561 says:

    “Seems like we have a 5 way battle for 3 jobs on the 4th line and pressbox: Kassian, Caggiula, Aberg, Chiasson and Upshal”.
    =======

    Assuming Brodziak is 4C the battle is five players for two spots. I forget who noted a week or two ago that 7D was becoming an area of real strength (which still makes me laugh.) The same can be said for 4Wingers. Last year it was Eric Gryba, this year it is The Drake … what is it with Chia and two year contracts for depth players?

  107. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    New stat.

    Paunchy/Overall Word Count

    VOR the current record holder

    We would also accept Stories About Oates/60

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: I doubt it was 85%.He played over a month with McDavid and was injured for another month.

    Sorry, 81% – he played 19% of his games with McDavid. As indicated, dishonest to include Nuge in that group of left wingers from last year – a perfect example of stretching to fit a narrative.

  109. jp says:

    Jaxon:
    Waivers today? Keep an eye on RHD Justin Holl. He’s be a great 3RD or #7D who could push our step in.

    What is there to recommend him? And why hasn’t he made the Leafs already?

    Not trying to be negative about the suggestion, I just don’t know anything about the player, and approaching 0.5 ppg in the AHL at 26 doesn’t jump out.

  110. pts2pndr says:

    Oilin4: Agreed. I worry about his defense. I can’t remember who it was, but someone posted a blog detailing his lack of effort on defense in game film last year and it was scary. If that’s what he’s like while auditioning for the most coveted job in the hockey world…..

    It doesn’t seem he will have to play much defense if what we watched last night continues!😉

  111. Rebillled says:

    Really hope the M.O. of the coaching staff isn’t to ‘get Milan going’ by giving him minutes to boost his confidence.

    3rd line.

    also: Ty Kunitz with a great night last night, but THE NUGE is going to rack up (at least) 39 goals this year.

  112. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Agreed.

    That whole line was bad.

    Drai was much better at getting back into defensive position when the Dmen were moving up on the play but he still doesn’t know who to defend when there.

    His checks got a lot of good looks last night and those guys where WPG’s 4th line or worse.

    I agree but I am hoping that as this is a new system and with his IQ some review of game film should fix it!

  113. workaroundaccount says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Maroon becoming a full time NHLer at 25 is the exception not the rule. I hope Rattie is NHL calibre as much as anyone else, but so far we’re running on a dozen games of a hot PDO. Rattie has no body of work to predict his impact from. Maroon was 2nd line quality the last 2.5 seasons.

    Post 5P pre-season game, this will be an interesting thread to bookmark. Is Rattie in Bakersfield at game 20? or does he have 12 points?

    Why start rationally projecting unproven guys now.

  114. leadfarmer says:

    Rebillled:
    Really hope the M.O. of the coaching staff isn’t to ‘get Milan going’ by giving him minutes to boost his confidence.

    3rd line.

    also: Ty Kunitz with a great night last night, but THE NUGE is going to rack up (at least) 39 goals this year.

    I’m in favor of any move that gets rid of the Lucic Russell Sekera and Kassian cap hits even if it means we have to suffer Lucic playing higher up in the lineup.
    And try to get Ottawa to send Stone to us for cheap

  115. workaroundaccount says:

    Bouchard is playing at least 40 games. I don’t see a scenario where this isn’t true. Even if Bear is the better player today, it makes sense to keep Bouchard in case of injuries. Can always recall Bear, but one bouchard is gone, he’s gone for the season. At least one of those two has to be on the roster on account of their passing ability.

  116. Paddy Morans Jockstrap says:

    jm363561:
    “Seems like we have a 5 way battle for 3 jobs on the 4th line and pressbox: Kassian, Caggiula, Aberg, Chiasson and Upshal”.
    =======

    Assuming Brodziak is 4C the battle is five players for two spots. I forget who noted a week or two ago that 7D was becoming an area of real strength (which still makes me laugh.) The same can be said for 4Wingers. Last year it was Eric Gryba, this year it is The Drake … what is it with Chia and two year contracts for depth players?

    I meant the two 4th line wing slots and somebody will be in the PB on opening night as well. So 3 slots. Looking forward to seeing how Upshall fits in on Sunday as right now I have the race order:

    Chiasson
    Kassian
    Aberg
    Cagiulla

    If Upshall is solid then I’d go with a big tough vet 4th line whose main job would be to PK and make sure nothing bad happens at ES.

  117. Lowetide says:

    workaroundaccount:
    Bouchard is playing atleast 40 games. I don’t see a scenario where this isn’t true. Even if Bear is the better player today, it makes sense to keep Bouchard in case of injuries. Can always recall Bear, but one bouchard is gone, he’s gone for the season. At least one of those two has to be on the roster on account of their passing ability.

    I can see him getting sent out at the end of training camp, but it’s more likely he gets nine games.

  118. OriginalPouzar says:

    workaroundaccount:
    Bouchard is playing atleast 40 games. I don’t see a scenario where this isn’t true. Even if Bear is the better player today, it makes sense to keep Bouchard in case of injuries. Can always recall Bear, but one bouchard is gone, he’s gone for the season. At least one of those two has to be on the roster on account of their passing ability.

    I assume you mean 40 games on the roster as opposed to 40 games player – 40 games on the roster vests a year of service towards free agency.

    What is the current verabal on SEA expansion being ready for after the 2019/20 season? If it gets delayed a year and Bouchard plays this year in the NHL, he’ll need to be protected (and the likes of Yamamoto, Benson, Marody, Bear, Jones, etc. will need to be protected or made available)

  119. Mr DeBakey says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers. LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year
    – This is border-line top-line winger, as poor as his season was. Even if he’s no longer the same guy, and is on a downward turn, his possession numbers remain strong.
    – He’s for sure still even for the harshest crtiic producing at top-6 winger level (and projected to this year). Unless your an elite winger, most top-6 wingers are not perfect.

    In his first year here, Lucic had 23 ES points, tied for 166 overall among NHL forwards.
    Last season, Lucic had 24 ES points, tied for 173 overall among NHL forwards.
    Barely Third Line production for sure.

  120. GMB3 says:

    For those here with better and longer memories than myself, when was the last time the Oilers had such a promising looking second round pick like they do in McLeod? Or am I just getting ahead of myself here

  121. pts2pndr says:

    workaroundaccount:
    Bouchard is playing atleast 40 games. I don’t see a scenario where this isn’t true. Even if Bear is the better player today, it makes sense to keep Bouchard in case of injuries. Can always recall Bear, but one bouchard is gone, he’s gone for the season. At least one of those two has to be on the roster on account of their passing ability.

    Would you be okay with 39 games?😉

  122. Mr DeBakey says:

    GMB3:
    For those here with better and longer memories than myself, when was the last time the Oilers had such a promising looking second round pick like they do in McLeod? Or am I just getting ahead of myself here

    Jeff Petry

  123. leadfarmer says:

    GMB3:
    For those here with better and longer memories than myself, when was the last time the Oilers had such a promising looking second round pick like they do in McLeod? Or am I just getting ahead of myself here

    I was exctatic with the pick. After years of drafting tough and character guys I love this shoot for the moon picks. Draft good skating skilled forwards and if they are elite in either category put a big circle around their name. He’s Elite skating ok skill. Now let him develop

  124. Richard S.S. says:

    Taylor Hall was a very good Player but he has the best year of his career at 26 as a New Jersey Devil. It was very good year and he was rewarded accordingly. He wasn’t even close to that in his career with the Oilers. I don’t even think he was capable of that when he was an Oiler and I wonder why not. There is a whole lot more I will not go into. At the time of the Trade, the Oilers three biggest assets were Connor McDavid, the #3 pick in the Draft and Taylor Hall. No one else had any value close to that.

    Two interesting things to remember. The Oilers made the Playoffs right after he was traded. That may or may not mean anything. He made the Playoffs the year he said he would listen to the Coaches. That also may or may not mean anything.

  125. ArmchairGM says:

    Jaxon: Game 68 was Nuge’s first on McDavid’s wing. So 15 games. 15/62 = 24% of his season on McDavid’s wing, 76% not on his wing.

    13. Thirteen.

    That’s how many games Nugent-Hopkins played LW with McDavid last year.

  126. Glovjuice says:

    Good gawd is Sprawl II (Mountains Beyond Mountains) by Arcade Fire ever a glorious song.

  127. OriginalPouzar says:

    GMB3:
    For those here with better and longer memories than myself, when was the last time the Oilers had such a promising looking second round pick like they do in McLeod? Or am I just getting ahead of myself here

    Tyler Benson

  128. Pescador says:

    OriginalPouzar: Tyler Benson

    people were quite high on A. Lander too, IIRC.

  129. Pescador says:

    Lowetide: I can see him getting sent out at the end of training camp, but it’s more likely he gets nine games.

    Wilfod Brimley

  130. Side says:

    Richard S.S.:
    He made the Playoffs the year he said he would listen to the Coaches. That also may or may not mean anything.

    From Taylor Hall:

    “Some of my quotes were misinterpreted Of course I listened to my coaches when I played in Edmonton. Um, I had some fantastic teachers. I just didn’t have as much one on one dialogue with them as I have with John Hynes.”

  131. OriginalPouzar says:

    I don’t understand the comments about Taylor Hall not being anywhere near an MVP type player as an Oiler.

    This year wasn’t even his best even strength year – he went on a huge PP heater and ended up with 37 PP points, 14 (I think) higher than his previous career high.

    He had a season in Edmonton with more even strength points and two season in Edmonton when more P/60 at evens.

    He was just as dynamic an offensive player when he was an Oiler.

  132. Pescador says:

    Woodguy v2.0: We would also accept Stories About Oates/60

    Hall & Oates?
    here is my favorite story;
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRYFKcMa_Ek

  133. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I don’t understand the comments about Taylor Hall not being anywhere near an MVP type player as an Oiler.

    This year wasn’t even his best even strength year – he went on a huge PP heater and ended up with 37 PP points, 14 (I think) higher than his previous career high.

    He had a season in Edmonton with more even strength points and two season in Edmonton when more P/60 at evens.

    He was just as dynamic an offensive player when he was an Oiler.

    Yes.

  134. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: Tyler Benson

    Immediately after the pick, Petry. Benson was not universally thought as such till this year – his injuries were a risky proposition. OP, your passive aggressiveness is tiring (and you know it).

  135. Pescador says:

    Side: From Taylor Hall:

    “Some of my quotes were misinterpreted Of course I listened to my coaches when I played in Edmonton. Um, I had some fantastic teachers. I just didn’t have as much one on one dialogue with them as I have with John Hynes.”

    AAHHH HAAAA!!
    this is probably nothing but we should make it into something

  136. Richard S.S. says:

    In the Draft, three players from beyond the #9 Pick were selected before Edmonton picked. In their 2nd Round, 16 Players (only 5 beyond 40) were selected from beyond #22 Ryan McLeod until the Oilers picked at #40.

  137. ArmchairGM says:

    godot10: But he got more than 24% of his points on left wing.

    Yup, but that’s a simplistic way of looking at it. Here are the numbers:

    300:31 with McDavid / 1121:27 total TOI = 26.76% (all situations)
    17 points with McDavid / 48 total points = 35.41% (all situations)

    207:06 with McDavid / 856:10 total TOI = 24.18% (5v5)
    10 points with McDavid / 28 total points = 35.71% (5v5)

    McDavid floats all boats, but RNH is still a player without him.

  138. Jaxon says:

    ArmchairGM: 13. Thirteen.

    That’s how many games Nugent-Hopkins played LW with McDavid last year.

    https://oilersnation.com/2018/03/10/game-preview-68-0-edmonton-oilers-vs-minnesota-wild-8pm-cbc/
    Game 68 Nugent moved to McDavid’s wing – so 15 games
    https://oilersnation.com/2018/03/17/game-preview-71-0-edmonton-oilers-at-florida-panthers-12pm-mst-snw/
    Game 71 Rattie joined them, so he had 12 games on their line.

  139. Richard S.S. says:

    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is the only player presently on the Roster who could make Connor McDavid better.

  140. Jaxon says:

    Mr DeBakey: In his first year here, Lucic had 23 ES points, tied for 166 overall among NHL forwards.
    Last season, Lucic had 24 ES points, tied for 173 overall among NHL forwards.
    Barely Third Line production for sure.

    Ummm…. 3 forwards per line x 31 teams = 93 forwards on the top line. Add 93 and you’re at 186 forwards on the top two lines, so by your math he is actually a top 6 forward.

  141. Jaxon says:

    OriginalPouzar: I assume you mean 40 games on the roster as opposed to 40 games player – 40 games on the roster vests a year of service towards free agency.

    What is the current verabal on SEA expansion being ready for after the 2019/20 season?If it gets delayed a year and Bouchard plays this year in the NHL, he’ll need to be protected (and the likes of Yamamoto, Benson, Marody, Bear, Jones, etc. will need to be protected or made available)

    Yup. It’s unfortunate but expansion is not guaranteed to go ahead and may get delayed one season. So it would be a very good idea to give MacLeod or Bouchard a maximum of 9 games.

  142. Pescador says:

    Jaxon: Yup. It’s unfortunate but expansion is not guaranteed to go ahead and may get delayed one season. So it would be a very good idea to give MacLeod or Bouchard a maximum of 9 games.

    I want to believe that the Oilers see the inherent wisdom in doing this

  143. A'bunadh says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Last year, his 34 points was 40th amongst LW’ers.LT, who I disagree with, is projecting the same production this year

    – This is border-line top-line winger, as poor as his season was.Even if he’s no longer the same guy, and is on a downward turn, his possession numbers remain strong.

    – He’s for sure still even for the harshest crtiic producing at top-6 winger level (and projected to this year).Unless your an elite winger, most top-6 wingers are not perfect.

    He was 56th in P/G among left wingers who played more than half the season. One of the worst top 6 producers while playing with CMD for a lot of it. That is not top 6 production.

  144. Pescador says:

    who: Believe me, I’m pulling for him. I think Lucic’s season is critical for this team.
    If he can get back to being a 20+ goal, 50+ point power winger 2 good things could happen.
    1. The Oilers will be a better team because of it.
    2. If Lucic, or his wife, are really willing to waive their NMC the Oilers may be able to trade him next summer without a huge sweetener.
    Point number 2 is the most important one but point number 1 has to happen to make it possible.
    I am basing my opinion on both players body of work in Edmonton regardless of contract. I think Khaira has been the better player and if he gotten Lucic’s ice time and linemates his numbers would be at least similar. And his overall game is much better.

    We both agree, Khaira is a beauty.
    I say better then i think alot of people realize.
    Definitely a 3rd line winger today. I am projecting him as a viable 3rd line center in the near.

  145. jm363561 says:

    A lot of pleasant surprises from our prospects so far – Benson, Bouchard, McCleod + Yamo, Bear, and Jones. Cooper Marody was a player that had been pretty much under my radar and has probably been the biggest surprise of all so I read up a little on his background. Originally a 6th round pick!

    https://www.sbncollegehockey.com/2018/3/21/17148324/michigans-cooper-marody-traded-to-edmonton

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is the only player presently on the Roster who could make Connor McDavid better.

    I’m sorry but this is a factually incorrect statement – there are various players on the roster with which McDavid plays better with than without.

  147. frjohnk says:

    Lucic’s micro stats, whether it be zone exits or zone entries or passing, have not changed much since his year in LA.

    Looking at the shot attempts from the slot at 5 on 5, he had 69 last year, his most ever.

    And if we look at the PP, he had 44 shot attempts from the slot in 16-17 and 12 goals. Last year, he had 24 shot attempts from the slot and 3 goals. While his 16-17 PP success was most likely an aberration, he will play PP1 and if the Oilers get the PP on track with Manny, Lucic will find success. Like his goal last night. Im sure we will see more of them.

    I dont Lucic has lost a step, or is done, I just think he had an extremely poor shooting % from Xmas onward. 1 goal in 79 shots. Nowhere near his career average of 13.7% and thats including his disaster shooting % from last year. There are times when players just can not get the points. Look at Eberle in 16-17. He had a down year with 50 points. Odds were he would rebound somewhat and he did.

    If anybody wants to bet that Lucic scores less than 10 goals in 82 games. Hit me up.

    Im rooting for the guy, my coworkers son played with him in LA and have heard nothing but good stories about Milan and because he is an Oiler, I want to see him do well.

  148. frjohnk says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is the only player presently on the Roster who could make Connor McDavid better.

    Drake Cagiualalaguiuuila says hi.

  149. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jaxon: Yup. It’s unfortunate but expansion is not guaranteed to go ahead and may get delayed one season. So it would be a very good idea to give MacLeod or Bouchard a maximum of 9 games.

    I don’t imagine McLeod getting any NHL games this year let alone staying past 9.

    Bouchard on the other hand could.

    Imagine if we had/have to protect Bouchard? The following would be available Kelfbom, Nurse, Larsson, Bouchard, Bear, Jones, Lagesson. Which 3 do you protect.

    The one benefit to delayed expansion is Russel is no longer here with a NMC and a must protect (if expansion goes as planned, if he can’t be traded, we’d be forced to buy him out in his last year which comes with a performance bonus making the buyout expensive for one year).

  150. JimmyV1965 says:

    Mr DeBakey: In his first year here, Lucic had 23 ES points, tied for 166 overall among NHL forwards.
    Last season, Lucic had 24 ES points, tied for 173 overall among NHL forwards.
    Barely Third Line production for sure.

    Is there not 180 top six forwards in the NHL? Wouldn’t this put him in top six territory.

  151. JimmyV1965 says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Taylor Hall was a very good Player but he has the best year of his career at 26 as a New Jersey Devil.It was very good year and he was rewarded accordingly.He wasn’t even close to that in his career with the Oilers.I don’t even think he was capable of that when he was an Oiler and I wonder why not.There is a whole lot more I will not go into.At the time of the Trade, the Oilers three biggest assets were Connor McDavid, the #3 pick in the Draft and Taylor Hall.No one else had any value close to that.

    Two interesting things to remember.The Oilers made the Playoffs right after he was traded.That may or may not mean anything.He made the Playoffs the year he said he would listen to the Coaches. That also may or may not mean anything.

    Not to be a jerk, but I detest that whole narrative about Hall not listening to his coaches. Complete rubbish.

  152. JimmyV1965 says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is the only player presently on the Roster who could make Connor McDavid better.

    Leon Draisaitl. He’s much more skilled than RNH.

  153. Bank Shot says:

    JimmyV1965: Not to be a jerk, but I detest that whole narrative about Hall not listening to his coaches. Complete rubbish.

    Not too mention Hall not having a season in Edmonton like he did in New Jersey.

    He finsihed like 7th in scoring in Edmonton one year, and he finished 7th last year.

    He just had a compelling story last season. Same player.

  154. Richard S.S. says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    That’s obvious, I said and I will repeat, “Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is the only player presently on the Roster who could make Connor McDavid better.”

  155. frjohnk says:

    Bank Shot: Not too mention Hall not having a season in Edmonton like he did in New Jersey.

    He finsihed like 7th in scoring in Edmonton one year, and he finished 7th last year.

    He just had a compelling story last season. Same player.

    Hall had a fantastic season last year. He had similar seasons with the Oilers, but like you say, his season last year was a compelling story because his team made the playoffs.

    With that said, there is no way that McDavid was not MVP of the league last year IMO. Hart trophy is basically voted for players on teams that make the playoffs. Because McDavids Oilers were not close to the playoffs, that dinged McDavid and that was wrong.

    Take Hall of New Jersey and sure they dont make the playoffs.

    Take McDavid off the Oilers and they see a bigger drop in the standings compared to NJ as the Oilers would be at the bottom of the league.

  156. Suntory Hanzo says:

    Glovjuice,

    Yes it is indeed.

    Ever listen to the Blondie mashup? She later joined them at coachella as she supposedly loved it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDw_KyWBWeo

    crappy video, but crafty mix.

  157. Suntory Hanzo says:

    Bank Shot,

    That’s because he was competing against Ovechkin and his twin LWer.

  158. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I don’t understand the comments about Taylor Hall not being anywhere near an MVP type player as an Oiler.

    This year wasn’t even his best even strength year – he went on a huge PP heater and ended up with 37 PP points, 14 (I think) higher than his previous career high.

    He had a season in Edmonton with more even strength points and two season in Edmonton when more P/60 at evens.

    He was just as dynamic an offensive player when he was an Oiler.

    It’s really very simple. The things you hold dear about what makes a good player isn’t what 99% of the people who vote for MVP hold dear.

    You are right. Hall should have at least played for Canada as the best LW in the game at that time. But he wasn’t picked. He should have had a better team around him to make playoffs. Bit he didn’t.

    No matter how he played for the Oilers, he was no where near league MVP. He would have had to drag Eakins’ Oilers to the conference final for that. He certainly matured into that. But he just as certainly wasn’t that.

    To say Chia traded a potential MVP go is like saying a player has Norris potential.

  159. N64 says:

    jm363561: I forget who noted a week or two ago that 7D was becoming an area of real strength (which still makes me laugh.)

    Out collection of 7D has been a running gag here:

    N64 says:
    August 29, 2018 at 11:15 am
    Darth Tu: I’m a fan of the 7 d,

    ~ Well it’s a good thing you like 7D ‘cuz we made need ’em all to fill in our 3rd pair. ~

  160. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    OriginalPouzar,

    That’s obvious,I said and I will repeat, “Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is the only player presently on the Roster who could make Connor McDavid better.”

    I don’t understand – that statement is not correct – i’m missing something, clearly.

  161. Scungilli Slushy says:

    frjohnk:
    Lucic’s micro stats, whether it be zone exits or zone entries or passing, have not changed much since his year in LA.

    Looking at the shot attempts from the slot, he had 69 last year, his most ever.

    And if we look at the PP, he had 44 shot attempts from the slot in 16-17 and 12 goals.Last year, he had 24 shot attempts from the slot and 3 goals.While his 16-17 PP success was most likely an aberration, he will play PP1 and if the Oilers get the PP on track with Manny, Lucic will find success.Like his goal last night.Im sure we will see more of them.

    I dont Lucic has lost a step, or is done, I just think he had an extremely poor shooting % from Xmas onward. 1 goal in 79 shots.Nowhere near his career average of 13.7% and thats including his disaster shooting % from last year.There are times when players just can not get the points.Look at Eberle in 16-17.He had a down year with 50 points.Odds were he would rebound somewhat and he did.

    If anybody wants to bet that Lucic scores less than 10 goals in 82 games.Hit me up.

    Im rooting for the guy, my coworkers son played with him in LA and have heard nothing but good stories about Milan and because he is an Oiler, I want to see him do well.

    I’ll piggyback on this comment.

    Square pegs. Those who appreciate micro stats and are aware acknowledge player usage.

    All but a few players in the entire league are limited in some way. There are a few that can do anything in any situation given enough reps, but not many.

    The Oilers great downfall has been asking players to do what they can’t, instead of asking players to what they can, and should, to support the team, – AND – putting them in a position to do that.

    Hockey is fluid, players are fluid for the most part, season to season. Some players have range to adapt, some don’t.

    If the team wants to win, there is a firm structure in place that accommodates the yearly fluctuations in most players, the fulcrum being buy in.

    This was the root of Vegas’ success last season. A tough coach that deployed well and allowed errors, as long as there was buy in. No buy in, no play.

    That is different than using players that work hard and can’t get the job done and keep getting TOI when there are other options.

  162. JimmyV1965 says:

    frjohnk: Hall had a fantastic season last year.He had similar seasons with the Oilers, but like you say, his season last year was a compelling story because his team made the playoffs.

    With that said, there is no way that McDavid was not MVP of the league last year IMO.Hart trophy is basically voted for players on teams that make the playoffs.Because McDavids Oilers were not close to the playoffs, that dinged McDavid and that was wrong.

    Take Hall of New Jersey and sure they dont make the playoffs.

    Take McDavid off the Oilers and they see a bigger drop in the standings compared to NJ as the Oilers would be at the bottom of the league.

    Unfortunately, you get zero respect in this league if you don’t make the playoffs. And for greats like Mcdavid, he will be considered a lesser player if he doesn’t win a cup. It was that way with Yzerman until he finally won. Same with Ovie.

    And Oiler fans will forever be trashed until we make the playoffs. I was reading a Jets blog today and I felt like I had to apologize for winning the game last night. All I read was Oilers suck, they’re winning the Cup if they play in the AHL. What makes it frustrating is that as a fan base we tend to downplay garbage wins like that and we generally have realistic expectations about the team.

  163. Scungilli Slushy says:

    When opining about the Hall trade, it is helpful as an emotional salve to remember the Oiler’s history in the DoD with talent.

    They lose, they balme the best players on the roster, and they trade them for less than value. The players usually are better elsewhere.

    The longer PC has been in, the less asshatery has happened. The system is stocked with actual NHL prospects across positions.

    Maybe he had more options lately, or maybe there are less calls from inside the house now that the last round of bloodletting is particularly embarrassing, with a massive fail last season as a cherry on top.

    I’m not sold on anything but Connor, but things have moved in a better direction. Finally.

  164. Scungilli Slushy says:

    JimmyV1965: Unfortunately, you get zero respect in this league if you don’t make the playoffs. And for greats like Mcdavid, he will be considered a lesser player if he doesn’t win a cup. It was that way with Yzerman until he finally won. Same with Ovie.

    And Oiler fans will forever be trashed until we make the playoffs. I was reading a Jets blog today and I felt like I had to apologize for winning the game last night. All I read was Oilers suck, they’re winning the Cup if they play in the AHL. What makes it frustrating is that as a fan base we tend to downplay garbage wins like that and we generally have realistic expectations about the team.

    Worse is a stacked team that can’t get it done when it counts. At the moment the Jets are reg season killers. Like the Flames, Blues, Sharks, Preds, Wild, Jackets and Caps, for their one (I don’t see any more).

    I’d rather have no more Cups (or no Cups he he) and watch McDavid play than Scheifele or Laine every day all day long.

    The Oilers being disrespected is part of the deal for old timers, and a great motivator for the team.

  165. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: It’s really very simple. The things you hold dear about what makes a good player isn’t what 99% of the people who vote for MVP hold dear.

    You are right. Hall should have at least played for Canada as the best LW in the game at that time. But he wasn’t picked. He should have had a better team around him to make playoffs. Bit he didn’t.

    No matter how he played for the Oilers, he was no where near league MVP. He would have had to drag Eakins’ Oilers to the conference final for that. He certainly matured into that. But he just as certainly wasn’t that.

    To say Chia traded a potential MVP go is like saying a player has Norris potential.

    The difference between Hall this past year and certain of his seasons with the Oilers was really Keith Kinkaid.

  166. Glovjuice says:

    Suntory Hanzo:
    Glovjuice,

    Yes it is indeed.

    Ever listen to the Blondie mashup?She later joined them at coachella as she supposedly loved it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDw_KyWBWeo

    crappy video, but crafty mix.

    killer, just watched the Coachella. Amazing live band. Saw them at Reds in west Edmonton mall before they exploded (top ten shows for me and I’ve seen a lot of shows).

  167. ArmchairGM says:

    Jaxon: https://oilersnation.com/2018/03/10/game-preview-68-0-edmonton-oilers-vs-minnesota-wild-8pm-cbc/
    Game 68 Nugent moved to McDavid’s wing – so 15 games
    https://oilersnation.com/2018/03/17/game-preview-71-0-edmonton-oilers-at-florida-panthers-12pm-mst-snw/
    Game 71 Rattie joined them, so he had 12 games on their line.

    Nugent-Hopkins missed 2 of those 15 to minor injury. THIRTEEN.

  168. Pescador says:

    frjohnk:

    Im rooting for the guy, my coworkers son played with him in LA and have heard nothing but good stories about Milan and because he is an Oiler, I want to see him do well.

    here here, well said
    Is it too late for confession?
    I am guilty,
    I feel inspired to be more supportive,
    Thank-you FrJohnK

  169. Lowetide says:

    Olivier Rodrigue gave up six goals tonight,

  170. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t understand – that statement is not correct – i’m missing something, clearly.

    Maybe you are, maybe not – there’s no way of knowing.

    If I play with 9 other players in a season, somebody is going to be the median, 4 players are going to be “above average” and 4 are going to be “below average”. And yet, all 9 might be dragging me down.

  171. Pescador says:

    JimmyV1965: Is there not 180 top six forwards in the NHL? Wouldn’t this put him in top six territory.

    Last time I checked 31 x 6 doesn’t equal 180,
    smoke that in your pipe and take it

  172. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar: The difference between Hall this past year and certain of his seasons with the Oilers was really Keith Kinkaid.

    Grandson of Reuben?

  173. frjohnk says:

    Pescador: here here, well said
    Is it too late for confession?
    I am guilty,
    I feel inspired to be more supportive,
    Thank-you FrJohnK

    The day he was signed, I liked the Lucic get for a few reasons, but hated the contract.

    Ill admit, I have been harsh on Milan at times during his tenure with the Oilers.

    -1 goal in the last 46 games.
    -all that time with mcDavid/Drai and little production
    -disinterested play for many games

    But this is a new season.

    Go Milan.

    And if he shits the bed again, then my pitchfork is in the back of Woodguys pickup.

  174. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    Olivier Rodrigue gave up six goals tonight,

    That’s equivalent to like a goal and a half in the Dub.

  175. frjohnk says:

    Lowetide:
    Olivier Rodrigue gave up six goals tonight,

    Never saw him play a minute of goalie ever.

    But as an Oiler fan, can say with authority he is definitely a bust.

  176. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Maybe you are, maybe not – there’s no way of knowing.

    If I play with 9 other players in a season, somebody is going to be the median, 4 players are going to be “above average” and 4 are going to be “below average”. And yet, all 9 might be dragging me down.

    There are various players where he has a higher scoring rate with them than without them – leads to a valid argument they make him better and that Nuge is not the only player on the roster that makes him better.

  177. pts2pndr says:

    Bos8: The product after three years of London Knights is slanted to offense.Different priorities on the teams.Nine games spread out does not preclude him from the World Juniors and return to the Knights.The objective is developing a top NHL D and how to best optimize that.

    Quit with the logic already!😉

  178. pts2pndr says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Taylor Hall was a very good Player but he has the best year of his career at 26 as a New Jersey Devil.It was very good year and he was rewarded accordingly.He wasn’t even close to that in his career with the Oilers.I don’t even think he was capable of that when he was an Oiler and I wonder why not.There is a whole lot more I will not go into.At the time of the Trade, the Oilers three biggest assets were Connor McDavid, the #3 pick in the Draft and Taylor Hall.No one else had any value close to that.

    Two interesting things to remember.The Oilers made the Playoffs right after he was traded.That may or may not mean anything.He made the Playoffs the year he said he would listen to the Coaches. That also may or may not mean anything.

    Can you say Dallas Eakins! He so devalued all Oiler players the cost to aquire Larsson was Taylor Hall! The great thing is it also ended up with the Oil getting Connor McDavid! Seems like a win to me!

  179. Jaxon says:

    ArmchairGM: Nugent-Hopkins missed 2 of those 15 to minor injury. THIRTEEN.

    Well if you’re going to bring facts into the argument how do you expect me to compete. I stand corrected. THIRTEEN. THIRTEEN. THIRTEEN. I’m on team THIRTEEN now.

  180. Pescador says:

    frjohnk: The day he was signed, I liked the Lucic get for a few reasons, but hated the contract.

    Ill admit, I have been harsh on Milan at times during his tenure with the Oilers.

    -1 goal in the last 46 games.
    -all that time with mcDavid/Drai and little production
    -disinterested play for many games

    But this is a new season.

    Go Milan.

    And if he shits the bed again, then my pitchfork is in the back of Woodguys pickup.

    If you ever find yourself in need,
    I know an excellent torch guy

  181. Jaxon says:

    Richard S.S.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDw_KyWBWeo

    One, I’m not sure that’s true. Two, I don’t think making McDavid better is necessarily the goal. McDavid’s going to do amazing things with many players. Now, Nugent-Hopkins scored as much, if not more, when he didn’t play with McDavid last season (although THIRTEEN games isn’t much to go by). If their chemistry improves, then that changes everything and they have looked good in one game thus far. But if Nuge is scoring well without McDavid, then maybe he shouldn’t be with McDavid. Instead, he should be improving another line.

    Just spitballing, here, but maybe they should be considering something more like this instead:
    Khaira – McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Nugent-Hopkins – Draisaitl – Rieder
    Lucic – Strome – Rattie

  182. jp says:

    godot10: Todd Nelson did a lot of “turd polishing” on Callahan, to sucker the Chiarellli to sign him away from Grand Rapids on a two year NHL contract.

    But his 2 yrs in GR pre-Nelson were better than his 2 yrs with Nelson. Not sure any polishing was done, though the shine sure is off now.

  183. jp says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Agreed.

    That whole line was bad.

    Drai was much better at getting back into defensive position when the Dmen were moving up on the play but he still doesn’t know who to defend when there.

    His checks got a lot of good looks last night and those guys where WPG’s 4th line or worse.

    pts2pndr: I agree but I am hoping that as this is a new system and with his IQ some review of game film should fix it!

    I thought the line was pretty bad too (noticed miscues by Drai, and Rieder sure didn’t have the puck on his stick much).

    But, I was thinking about Draisaitl’s transition to center and realized I’d kinda forgotten he played a full year there with Hall before becoming McDavid’s winger.

    I recall posters here writing off his performance that year as all due to Hall, but he actually had better numbers across the board without Hall. His away numbers were also better than Hall’s numbers without.

    Disclaimer here that Hall and Drai basically played the whole year together, Drai has more minutes with Hall than with the goalie. So the without sample is only ~160 min. But still Draisaitl was actually a very effective C without Hall in 15-16 (and also with him).

    In 16-17 he was across the board worse without McDavid, and McDavid didn’t suffer without, so that fits the Draisaitl needs a driver narrative perfectly. (57% TOI together/43% apart).

    In 17-18 he was again worse across the board without McDavid. (~45% together/55% apart) The difference though was that McDavid was also worse without Draisaitl, and all the w/outs were comparable between the 2. The exception being GF% – Leon fell to 42%, McDavid maintained 57% (despite basically every other metric falling to 50% for both players).

    So there comes PDO – 1005 together. Leon overall 984, McDavid overall 1017. That translates out to something like ~965 for Drai without McDavid, and ~1025 for McDavid without Drai. I don’t think Draisaitl is single handedly driving PDO into the shitter (and he hasn’t done that before). If we project Leon’s w/out shots with the ‘normal’ PDO Leon’s GF-GA would have been 32-29 rather than 28-38.

    All this to say that I agree with Wilde. There’s a lot to show that Draisaitl will most probably have better results driving his own line going forward. I’m a little less worried that he won’t be able to play D now than a few days ago.

  184. godot10 says:

    Richard S.S.:
    Taylor Hall was a very good Player but he has the best year of his career at 26 as a New Jersey Devil.It was very good year and he was rewarded accordingly.He wasn’t even close to that in his career with the Oilers.I don’t even think he was capable of that when he was an Oiler and I wonder why not.There is a whole lot more I will not go into.At the time of the Trade, the Oilers three biggest assets were Connor McDavid, the #3 pick in the Draft and Taylor Hall.No one else had any value close to that.

    The best year of Taylor Hall’s career was the strike shortened season under Krueger. Each conference played games only in the conference. Hall finished 2nd in scoring in the stronger Western Conference. Top 10 in the NHL.

  185. jp says:

    Jethro Tull: It’s really very simple. The things you hold dear about what makes a good player isn’t what 99% of the people who vote for MVP hold dear.

    You are right. Hall should have at least played for Canada as the best LW in the game at that time. But he wasn’t picked. He should have had a better team around him to make playoffs. Bit he didn’t.

    No matter how he played for the Oilers, he was no where near league MVP. He would have had to drag Eakins’ Oilers to the conference final for that. He certainly matured into that. But he just as certainly wasn’t that.

    To say Chia traded a potential MVP go is like saying a player has Norris potential.

    I agree with most of this, but Hall was a 2X top 10 scorer. Some here were calling him a 50 point player, washed up at 24, and a cancer in the room.

    I agree it’s not fair to say Chia traded an MVP for Larsson, but it’s equally unfair to let him off the hook for trading Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.

  186. hunter1909 says:

    Hunter1909’s 2018-19 Death March™ is Back!!

    Here’s how you enter:

    Predict the final points total of the Oilers 2018-19 season.

    Tie break: how many goals does Yakupov score in the KHL?

    That’s it!

    Contest open until puck drop in Europe. We wait.

  187. OriginalPouzar says:

    Taylor Hall was an elite scoring winger when traded for Adam Larsson.

    Nope, he hadn’t been a Hart Trophy winner at the time of the trade but I don’t think one would have to squint too much to see the possibility in the future.

    In no world was Adam Larsson straight up value for Taylor Hall at the time of the trade, even without any existing Hart Trophy nominations.

    At the same time, if you take Adam Larsson off the Oilers roster and replace him with Taylor Hall, I’m not sure that make the team win more hockey games.

  188. ArmchairGM says:

    Jaxon: Well if you’re going to bring facts into the argument how do you expect me to compete. I stand corrected. THIRTEEN. THIRTEEN. THIRTEEN. I’m on team THIRTEEN now.

    😀

    (had a few drinks last night and was in a goofy mood, thanks for playing along!)

  189. treevojo says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Taylor Hall was an elite scoring winger when traded for Adam Larsson.

    Nope, he hadn’t been a Hart Trophy winner at the time of the trade but I don’t think one would have to squint too much to see the possibility in the future.

    In no world was Adam Larsson straight up value for Taylor Hall at the time of the trade, even without any existing Hart Trophy nominations.

    At the same time, if you take Adam Larsson off the Oilers roster and replace him with Taylor Hall, I’m not sure that make the team win more hockey games.

    I think you would have to squint awfully hard.

    Taylor Hall’s hart trophy career votes total prior to last year.

    0

  190. frjohnk says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Taylor Hall was an elite scoring winger when traded for Adam Larsson.

    Nope, he hadn’t been a Hart Trophy winner at the time of the trade but I don’t think one would have to squint too much to see the possibility in the future.

    In no world was Adam Larsson straight up value for Taylor Hall at the time of the trade, even without any existing Hart Trophy nominations.

    At the same time, if you take Adam Larsson off the Oilers roster and replace him with Taylor Hall, I’m not sure that make the team win more hockey games.

    RE : Hall trade talk. I dont think it goes away unless the Oilers win the Cup or management gets loaded into the cannon.

    Some may have saw this poll by Yost

    Travis Yost
    ‏Verified account @travisyost

    Most lopsided hockey trade (2007+)?

    11%Subban to NSH
    54%Hall to N.J
    22%Seguin to DAL
    13%Other
    4,898 votes•3 hours left

    8:56 AM – 21 Sep 2018

    Travis Yost
    ‏Verified account @travisyost
    21h21 hours ago

    I couldn’t do six — other popular replies FWIW were Spezza to DAL, JvR to TOR, Karlsson to SJ, Barzal to NYI..
    15 replies 1 retweet 17 likes

    New conversation
    Travis Yost
    ‏Verified account @travisyost
    21h21 hours ago
    And of course Forsberg For Erat.

    Our GM has been at the wrong side of the helm for 3 lopsided trades over the last decade according to the Yost poll. The Hall trade will probably always follow Chia. It was a poor trade then. It looks worse now.

  191. London Jon says:

    frjohnk,

    The GM who has made the two worst trades in the last decade should not still be in a position to make trades!!!

  192. meanashell11 says:

    pts2pndr: Can you say Dallas Eakins! He so devalued all Oiler players the cost to aquire Larsson was Taylor Hall! The great thing is it also ended up with the Oil getting Connor McDavid! Seems like a win to me!

    And someone would wonder why Hall would not listen to that asshat! I still cannot believe we dropped Ralph for that loser…..

  193. defmn says:

    frjohnk: RE : Hall trade talk.I dont think it goes away unless the Oilers win the Cup or management gets loaded into the cannon.

    Some may have saw this poll by Yost

    Travis Yost
    ‏Verified account @travisyost

    Most lopsided hockey trade (2007+)?

    11%Subban to NSH
    54%Hall to N.J
    22%Seguin to DAL
    13%Other
    4,898 votes•3 hours left

    8:56 AM – 21 Sep 2018

    Travis Yost
    ‏Verified account @travisyost
    21h21 hours ago

    I couldn’t do six — other popular replies FWIW were Spezza to DAL, JvR to TOR, Karlsson to SJ, Barzal to NYI..
    15 replies 1 retweet 17 likes

    New conversation Travis Yost ‏Verified account @travisyost 21h21 hours ago
    And of course Forsberg For Erat.

    Our GM has been at the wrong side of the helm for 3 lopsided trades over the last decade according to the Yost poll. The Hall trade will probably always follow Chia.It was a poor trade then.It looks worse now.

    The only thing internet polls prove is that the unhappiest group vote the most about the things they are most unhappy about. 😉

  194. Bling says:

    Weber/Subban was a horrible trade.

    At least you can understand Chia’s thinking. We had zero RHD! The trade was not value, but at least a hole was being filled.

    What in the world was Bergevin thinking?

  195. russ99 says:

    ashley:
    CMD and Nuge is a lethal combination.They are going to keep opposing defensemen and coaches up at night.

    *Patting-myself-on-the-back warning*: suggested this 18 months ago in this thread.

    https://lowetide.ca/2017/03/09/tommy-gun/

    If only Todd had tried it then.We might have had a shot at Stanley.

    Better late than never, I guess.

    Let’s be honest. Nuge was a defensive beast in the San Jose and Anaheim playoff games, was a big reason why we beat the Sharks, and he will be again. Playoff hockey is different from regular season hockey. I don’t mind all this rush happy stuff if it gets us to the postseason, but we’ll need someone like Nuge at center when we get back there, and Strome ain’t that.

    It’s a brand new season, Hall ain’t an Oiler, and I’m interested in this group of Oilers. Enough already, you can’t go back and change things, continuing to rail against this into a third season seems damn petty.

  196. OriginalPouzar says:

    treevojo: I think you would have to squint awfully hard.

    Taylor Hall’s hart trophy career votes total prior to last year.

    0

    Multiple time top 10 league scorer and elite line driver – not even 25.

    Within reason for me.

  197. deardylan says:

    When is the last time you read in the news that a psychic won the superball lottery a few times in a row?

    Isn’t Hindsight, Present Sight and Future Sight what we are obsessed with in this forum. Especially in our own lives (revealed in our comments). When I read about TH trade regrets, I am somehow reliving my own regrets of my past. Isn’t that why TH & NY & MB regrets keeps returning to this forum? Or is it something else?

    Hindsight is 2020

    Do you remember that moment when TH face was run over by a skate and his leadership spilled out onto the ice and city? Do you remember vividly reading that Edmonton Journal article about that moment the next day. It touched my heart and soul at that moment and I became a TH believer for the rest of his career.

    Like Prophet Joplin said… We don’t have 364 days we only have today. “Thats all we got, man” the present moment.

    You see those sweet LT charts up there…including the distant bells. Including the coach and the Gm.
    That is WHO I love and support right now in the present moment. Baby.

    Present Oilers Sight: Larsson is my 20:20 focus now.

    ===

    Living with hindsight is is trying to put in a contact lens for the first time. Anyone ever experienced this?

    Future sight is cracked MacT crystal ball – unknown. Did you read in recent news that a psychic won the superball lottery?

    Wishing Taylor Hall the greatest career. He will always be Oilers alumni. Like a dad at some point I just realized I gotta let go, let him go forth and explore the world.

    Present Oilers Sight: Larsson is my 20:20 focus now.

    ===
    As Prophet Janis said in ball and chain live performance,

    “I mean, if you gotta’ care for one day, man.

    I don’t mean, if you, say maybe you wanna’ care for 365 days, right? You ain’t
    got 365 days.

    You got it for one day, man. Well I tell you that one day man, better be your life man, because you know you could say oh man you could cry about the other 364 man, but you’re gonna loose that one day man, and That’s all you got.

    You gotta’ call that love, man.

    That’s what it is, man. If you got it today you don’t wear it tomorrow, man.

    ‘Cause you don’t need it. ‘Cause as a matter of fact, as we discovered on the train, tomorrow never happens, man.

    It’s all the same f***ing day!”

    The present moment, man!

    PS. For those younger if you havent come across Prophet Joplin check this youtube clip out…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1zFnyEe3nE

  198. rickithebear says:

    Puljujarvi Top 145 Fwd evg/gm (12-13evg 80gm) 19 year old.
    Top 100 (16-17 evg 80gm) would be a breakout from last years top 5 fwd evg breakout.

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