Game 48 2018-19: Flames at Oilers

In my many years of being a fan and observer, no rivalry for which I held a stake can match the 1980’s Oilers and Flames. Words that don’t ordinarily enter the hockey lexicon—acrimonious, ambush, bitter, boiling point, cannon, frontal assault, ghastly, Messier, murderous, take no prisoners, rout, seething, siege, sortie, stalag, vindictive, writhing—were used routinely in the decade Stanley spent in Alberta. If you loved violence and blood, this series from 1980 to 1991 is as intense as I can ever recall. If we get anything close tonight, count your lucky stars. What a fabulous ride.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton is going to bring it all season long. Proud to be part of a lineup that is ready to cover the coming year. Outstanding coverage from a large group, including Daniel Nugent-Bowman and Jonathan Willis, Lowetide, Minnia Feng and Pat McLean. If you haven’t subscribed yet, now’s your chance. Outstanding offer is here.

  • New Lowetide: Jay Woodcroft’s usage of Tyler Benson and other young forwards in Bakersfield is both welcome and encouraging for Edmonton Oilers fans.
  • New Tyler Dellow: After 47 games, the Oilers’ 5-on-5 scoring woes stand out.
  • Lowetide: The Oilers’ way forward and the smartest route to finding an impact winger this summer.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Goalless Tobias Rieder hopes to follow Zack Kassian and Milan Lucic and end his offensive funk.
  • Jonathan Willis: Why the Oilers should make a decision on Peter Chiarelli this week.
  • Lowetide: The Edmonton Oilers appear to be mere hours from doing something overbold
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects, Winter 2018
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 10 prospect Winter 2018: Dylan Wells.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 9 prospect Winter 2018: Joel Persson.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 8 prospect Winter 2018: Kirill Maksimov.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 7 prospect Winter 2018: Caleb Jones
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 6 Prospect winter 2018: Cooper Marody
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 5 Prospect winter 2018: Ethan Bear.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 4 Prospect winter 2018: Ryan McLeod.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 3 Prospect winter 2018: Tyler Benson.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 2 Prospect winter 2018: Kailer Yamamoto.
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 1 Prospect winter 2018: Evan Bouchard.

OILERS AFTER 48

  • Oilers in 2015: 19-24-5, 43 points; goal differential -23
  • Oilers in 2016: 25-15-8, 58 points; goal differential +7
  • Oilers in 2017: 21-24-3, 45 points; goal differential -29
  • Oilers in 2018: 23-21-3, 49 points; goal differential -7

A big game tonight and a big weekend full stop. Edmonton was 9-10-1 under Todd McLellan and are currently 14-11-2 with Hitchcock. Dellow’s fantastic article above shines some light on the 5-on-5 issues. Some you know, some will surprise you. I hope you read my Benson piece, but right after please read the Dellow item. For your own good!

OILERS IN JANUARY

  • Oilers in January 2016: 4-3-2, 10 points; goal differential -1
  • Oilers in January 2017: 6-3-0, 12 points; goal differential +1
  • Oilers in January 2018: 4-5-0, eight points; goal differential -13
  • Oilers in January 2019: 5-3-0, 10 points; goal differential 0

Some separation in these months as we edge closer to the end. Edmonton has a tough weekend but may be buoyed by recent wins and an outstanding run on the out of town scoreboard. If they win tonight, this town will be talking playoffs at the All-Star break.

WHAT TO EXPECT IN JANUARY

  • On the road to: Arizona, Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Jose (Expected 2-2-0) (Actual 2-2-0)
  • At home to: Florida, Arizona, Buffalo (Expected 1-1-1) (Actual 2-1-0)
  • On the road to: Vancouver (Expected 0-1-0) (Actual 1-0-0)
  • At home to: Calgary, Carolina, Detroit (Expected 1-1-1) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 4-5-2, 10 points in 11 games
  • Current results: 5-3-0, 10 points in eight games

I expect three points from the next three games (or I did at the beginning of the month). No idea about where they get the win but will say tonight should be the toughest of the three. The series is 1-1-0 so far, Calgary winning the first game 4-2, Edmonton getting a shutout from Mikko Koskinen in the second game.

The Oilers group would have been impressed with the line of Tyler Benson-Josh Currie-Cooper Marody who are on a tear over the last couple of games. Maybe we’ll see a repeat of the old timey Bulldog Line (Michel Riesen-Brian Swanson-Daniel Cleary) who were called up as a line back in 2000.

I don’t think that’s going to happen, but do believe we might see a recall here in the coming days. Edmonton needs more skill. If they can’t trade for it, perhaps they’ll look to the options in Bakersfield.

The other reality? Keith Gretzky and the group might be there to look at the defensemen they’re willing to deal at the deadline. Here are the 5-on-5 goal differentials for the defensemen this year:

  1. Ryan Stanton 26-22 (+4)
  2. Ethan Bear 20-16 (+4)
  3. Caleb Jones 17-15 (+2)
  4. Jake Kulevich 10-9 (+1)
  5. William Lagesson 20-21 (-1)
  6. Logan Day 22-24 (-2)
  7. Keegan Lowe 23-26 (-3)

Jones is in the NHL, Lagesson is new to the league and Bear has had some injuries but is back playing as a regular. Who gets traded? The one true thing is that Caleb Jones isn’t going anywhere.

CURRENT OILERS ROSTER

  • Many many articles over the last 30 hours about Puljujarvi’s current state. He’s scoring more under Hitchcock and has (mostly) played a top nine role since November 20. I think that’s called progress, but that’s just me.
  • Kailer Yamamoto and Colby Cave looked good the other night, but tonight will be a better test.
  • One of the wild things about this team since Hitch took over? Shot differential have gone south. Hurry Oscar!

BACK IN THE OLD HIPPIE DAYS

On February 3, 1984, the Edmonton Oilers ripped the Calgary Flames 10-5 at Northlands. Pat Hughes had a first period hat trick, Ken Linseman and Glenn Anderson (his 30th) also scored and it was 5-0 after 20. Calgary won the second period 4-3 (Hughes again, his 20th, plus Anderson and a personal favourite, Jaroslav Pouzar). In the final frame, Hughes scored again, his fifth tally. He was the No. 5 scorer among forwards that year, with 27 on the season. This year, Edmonton’s fifth-leading forward in goals remains Drake Caggiula, with 7.

TRADE DEADLINE TARGETS

My preference would be something less than a major major deal involving the first-round pick. Maybe you could get Mats Zuccarello for a second, that selection should be inside the top 50. Failing that, if you’re going to deal the pick for a rental, roll away the stone and give Ottawa the pick.

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565 Responses to "Game 48 2018-19: Flames at Oilers"

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  1. Professor Q says:

    With all of Bouchard’s doubters and with him being underrated as of late, I do hope he becomes like an injury-free Klefbom (also underrated), or more.

    That would be sweet justice, in my opinion.

  2. Dicky94 says:

    Professor Q,

    I’m not worried about Bouchard. He’s 19 and already has a lot of poise with the puck The whole Button thing is just him dumping on the Oilers which he loves to do. Does he have reason to? Yes. But he seems to really like shitting on the Oilers. Google it. Here’s hoping for an Oiler win tonight! LETS GO OILERS!!!

  3. jtblack says:

    ” I hope you read my Benson piece,”

    Did that. Good arrows for Benson. Great to see. Just maybe we can have a legit 2nd round pick make the NHL as an impact. Petry the last?

    Cheers all.

    Go Oilers!

  4. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Those godless pions to the south want only blood. No class and no grace. Nothing but an organization of plugs from top to bottom. I hope they burn!!

  5. Jordan says:

    Dicky94:
    Professor Q,

    I’m not worried about Bouchard. He’s 19 and already has a lot of poise with the puck The whole Button thing is just him dumping on the Oilers which he loves to do. Does he have reason to? Yes. But he seems to really likeshitting on the Oilers.Google it.Here’s hoping for an Oiler win tonight!LETS GO OILERS!!!

    Anyone who hangs around these parts should know Oilers fans dump on the Oilers all the time. Especially when they make dumb decisions that hurt the club.

    I don’t have any issues with Button calling this team out. Good on him for calling a spade a spade in the MSM.

    “Development” only applies when the team is constructed to allow for development. The Oilers best options for wingers are long-shots and under-developed prospects – Prospects who are not getting the development time they need and are rotting on the vine. I hope he and others continue to call out this failure to manage assets effectively. Just like Magnus, Nail, and others before them.

    We hoped for the best…

  6. godot10 says:

    smellyglove:
    Cam Talbot has no trade value: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/cam-talbot-has-no-trade-value-the-hard-truth-from-brian-burke/amp

    The salary of an expiring contract is mostly irrelevant at the trade deadline. Most teams have banked the cap room to take on money. Plus the Oilers could retain some salary.

    For a team in need of a goaltender, Talbot isn’t going to cost a first round pick like Howard is going to cost.

  7. Ben says:

    Some cheery McDavid fire from the Globe and Mail:

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/article-mcdavid-at-risk-of-becoming-another-nhl-picasso-who-paints-houses/

    I love (national) articles like this. As an otherwise helpless Tier 2 fan, my best hope is that the owner gets publicly shamed into putting competent people in charge.

    Having heard Katz speak and seeing who he’s entrusted to run the team all of these brutal years, my main question is quite simply: how on *earth* did this guy ever make any money??

  8. Woogie63 says:

    An interesting stat might be, points from players that have played +50 games on your farm club.

    I bet it is it as good an predictor of success as any hockey advanced stat.

  9. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Western Conference Playoff Standings using Points Percentage expressed as points over/under fake Bettman .500

    Pacific
    CGY 18
    SJS 14
    VGK 11

    Central
    WPG 17
    NSH 11
    COL 3

    Wildcard
    DAL 2
    MIN 2

    Out of playoffs
    EDM 2
    VAN 1
    ANA 1
    STL -1
    ARI -1
    LAK -6
    CHI -8

    Relevant games today:

    ANA at NJD (NJD -135)
    LAK at COL (COL -180)
    OTT at STL (STL -220)
    WPG at DAL (WPG -120)
    SJS at TBY (TBY -140)
    CBJ at MIN (MIN -135)
    PIT at VGK (VGK -145)
    CGY at EDM (CGY -130)

    EDM a home dog when CGY is on 3 in 4 and 2nd of B2B.

    I’m hoping for a new type of Saturday night game…..”Now with less Tabernac!”

    GOILERS!

    *clapclap*

  10. Lowetide says:

    Woogie63:
    An interesting stat might be, points from players that have played +50 games on your farm club.

    I bet it is it as good an predictor of success as any hockey advanced stat.

    I’d say ‘even strength’ points per game would be closer to true north, but absolutely agree (and have done so with AHL stats for many years).

  11. Oilman99 says:

    godot10: The salary of an expiring contract is mostly irrelevant at the trade deadline.Most teams have bankedthe cap room to take on money.Plus the Oilers could retain some salary.

    For a team in need of a goaltender, Talbot isn’t going to cost a first round pick like Howard is going to cost.

    After some of the shaky starts lately, there is no guarantee Koskinen is a legitimate starter,i would be in no hurry to be dumping Talbot at this stage,as his play has been just as good,if not steadier.

  12. Woogie63 says:

    Lowetide: I’d say ‘even strength’ points per game would be closer to true north, but absolutely agree (and have done so with AHL stats for many years).

    Some how I knew you (or someone on this blog would have those numbers)

    Anything you could share in the future?

  13. frjohnk says:

    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid. This was done in 391 minutes. In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points. It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well. Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points. McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL. Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play. I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

  14. dessert1111 says:

    I thought at the beginning of the year that the secondary scoring would even out eventually, but that’s just nauseating.

    A lot of these players I really like and will be disappointed, but understand, when they get shuffled out.

    On the brightside, Jesse’s scoring doesn’t look at bad when compared to his peers on the team.

    At some point I’d give Benson and Marody a look just in case you catch lightning in a bottle.

  15. jtblack says:

    Last Wildcard spot in the EAST is 10 games over .500.

    Glad we are in the WEST!

  16. dessert1111 says:

    I’d love to see Eberle picked up as a rental of the Isles drop out of the race, if only because it’d take a bit of the sting off that trade (much like getting Rieder this year took some of the sting off as well).

  17. Woogie63 says:

    Ben:
    Some cheery McDavid fire from the Globe and Mail:

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/article-mcdavid-at-risk-of-becoming-another-nhl-picasso-who-paints-houses/

    I love (national) articles like this. As an otherwise helpless Tier 2 fan, my best hope is that the owner gets publicly shamed into putting competent people in charge.

    Having heard Katz speak and seeing who he’s entrusted to run the team all of these brutal years, my main question is quite simply: how on *earth* did this guy ever make any money??

    Not sure I agree with this writer,

    I get the win or you live in shame for the rest of your life angle. It seems lazy to compare non cap league to a cap league…. or the league that gifted French Canadian kids to Montréal to a cap league.

    Too many national guys write within a vail that Connor should be in Toronto or a big American city for the good of the game. I am more a every team needs to have stars to make every game exciting type of guy.

  18. tileguy says:

    smellyglove:
    Cam Talbot has no trade value: https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/cam-talbot-has-no-trade-value-the-hard-truth-from-brian-burke/amp

    His real value was the elimination of his 4.1M contract which could of been used to find a goal scorer, that is why I wanted him gone last month. I guess since we are still in the hunt that is possible at the trade deadline, but.

  19. Lowetide says:

    Woogie63: Some how I knew you (or someone on this blog would have those numbers)

    Anything you could share in the future?

    I may do a retro fit to see how it shines. It’s a good idea.

  20. frjohnk says:

    Oilman99: After some of the shaky starts lately, there is no guarantee Koskinen is a legitimate starter,i would be in no hurry to be dumping Talbot at this stage,as his play has been just as good,if not steadier.

    Since Klefbom went down.

    Koskinen .897 save %, 3.52 GAA
    Talbot .897 save %, 3.29 GAA

  21. Ben says:

    Woogie63: Too many national guys write within a vail that Connor should be in Toronto or a big American city for the good of the game.

    He doesn’t state that, though. Just (correctly) says that it’s a real shame that the best player in the world is denied exposure on the largest stages (Stanley Cup, Olympics, World Cup) due to factors entirely out of his control.

    I’m a die-hard Oilers fan. If I could stop being one, I’d would. But I can’t.

    That said, if the owner can’t put competent people in charge and there’s no traction over the next couple of years (as there hasn’t been for a DECADE), then I’d want to see 97 go somewhere else and maximize his abilities.

    Sports is a dynamic story-telling platform. The Oilers are a pen without paper.

  22. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: The salary of an expiring contract is mostly irrelevant at the trade deadline.Most teams have bankedthe cap room to take on money.Plus the Oilers could retain some salary.

    For a team in need of a goaltender, Talbot isn’t going to cost a first round pick like Howard is going to cost.

    I see a contender with a questionable back up grabbing him.

    If CBJ trades Bob then I can see them grabbing him to back up Korpisalo.

    Might even get something like Nash back as he hasn’t meshed with Torts

  23. Munny says:

    I have a hard time believing Talbot is for sale IF the goal is to make the playoffs.

    Also…

    Trust the MSM to put as much effort into damaging potential Oiler trade values as they are presently putting into thwarting McDavid’s Hart chances. After all, they did such a nice hatchet job on Hall and Eberle, why stop a good thing?

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    A tough test for the boys tonight as, unfortunately, the flames are a top team in the league this year.

    Flames started their backup last night and outscored his leakiness. Rittich in net tonight and, while he has had a great performance against the Oil this year, he doesn’t scare me and I’m confident the Oilers will be able to put some pucks past him.

    Sounds like the defence will be the same as last game – coach gave kudos to the Manning/Benning combo and Benning’s plus play will keep Petrovic on the sidelines.

    Noone seems to understand Manning over Gravel but the coach likes Manning’s play.

    I assume Koskinen starts tonight.
    Go Oilers!

  25. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lots of important games tonight and they are all no-brainers with who to cheer for:

    ANA/NJD – Lets go Devils

    LAK/COL – Can LA do us another favor?

    OTT/STL – OTT is giving COL Jack Hughes so they might as well help us out today

    WIN/DAL – Hopefully not let down for WIN after a big win over NSH the other night

    SJS/TBL – Time for TBL to get back in the win column after a rare loss

    CBJ/MIN – Lets keep MIN free falling

    Its going to be a great day keeping track of the scoreboard and doing some game surfing – background hockey games while plugging away at the office.

  26. Pescador says:

    frjohnk: Since Klefbom went down.

    Koskinen .897 save %, 3.52 GAA
    Talbot .897 save %, 3.29 GAA

    Any chance you have their numbers pre-injury?

  27. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Woogie63:
    An interesting stat might be, points from players that have played +50 games on your farm club.

    I bet it is it as good an predictor of success as any hockey advanced stat.

    Historically AHL points/game is a good predictor of NHL success.

  28. OriginalPouzar says:

    I really hope they just leave Benson in Bakersfield for the year.

    Marody has already got his cup of coffee, looked a bit better under McLellan than Hitch who didn’t really give him a chance. If another forward is needed, I give Marody another chance and hope that Hitch gives him a decent shot on a line that plays – as a winger.

    Benson is having a very good rookie pro season but is he going to move the needle at the NHL level? Very doubtful in my opinion so I would think he could just stay where he is, keep playing top minutes while being a leader, keep working with the coaching staff and help the playoff push.

  29. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    This is an important point.

    The thing when comparing JP to other high end prospects is the the high end prospects got the TOI with the MacKinnons, Bergeron etc of the world and were left there.

    One can argue that the others “earned” their time with the best and Jesse hasn’t but I’m not sure that’s true.

    Drai didn’t produce above a 4th line rate away from Hall or 97 until he was 21.

    I might look at some other players and see if that is similar to their experience.

  30. frjohnk says:

    Pescador: Any chance you have their numbers pre-injury?

    Koskinen .927 save %, 2.20 GAA
    Talbot .895 save %, 3.12 GAA

    Koskinen started out very hot at the beginning of the year.
    Talbot looks to be consistent 🙂

    Both goalies have had a few good games over the last month, but its seem that they would have a bad game more often. And with our pea shooter offense when the 3 big guns on the bench, we dont have much chance of winning those games.

  31. HT Joe says:

    Woogie63: Not sure I agree with this writer,

    I get the win or you live in shame for the rest of your life angle. It seems lazy to compare non cap league to a cap league

    What if you compare the perception of Ovechkin before and after his cup win? Maybe I’m misreading the tea leaves, but it feels like the perception of him being a great player is more widespread now.

  32. Woogie63 says:

    watched Larkin live for the first time last night, wow he is a dynamic player. Lots of speed and creativity there.

    Athanasious looked like a player as well, he was dangerous every shift.

  33. npanciroli says:

    Going to tape and watch based on the result. Good chance if I watch live I get enraged due to score or Tkachuk or something else. Hope we dominate them and we get lots of Mcpoints.

  34. Pescador says:

    Dicky94:
    Professor Q,

    I’m not worried about Bouchard. He’s 19 and already has a lot of poise with the puck The whole Button thing is just him dumping on the Oilers which he loves to do. Does he have reason to? Yes. But he seems to really likeshitting on the Oilers.Google it.Here’s hoping for an Oiler win tonight!LETS GO OILERS!!!

    It’s great to have poise with the puck combine that with Bouchards world class vision & passing ability, he has a tool bag that the Oilers desperately need.
    That being said, the position is called Defense not Offense.
    You spend way more time on the ice without the puck than with. There is a chance that he could be something more then Oiler Jultz, but he needs to play in the AHL for a minimum of 1 year.
    Of course the Brass & some fans have him in the top 4 to start next season.

  35. frjohnk says:

    Woodguy v2.0: The thing when comparing JP to other high end prospects is the the high end prospects got the TOI with the MacKinnons, Bergeron etc of the world and we’re left there.

    One can argue that the others “earned” their time with the best and Jesse hasn’t but I’m not sure that’s true.

    I would suspect that those players on other teams were maybe showing something with those teams internal numbers, but its a guess.

    JP has had two different opinions now, 3 if one includes Guluztan, as Im sure he has had some input on JP, and all are saying the same thing when looking at TOI and quality of teammates.

    On a side note, I happened to catch a game in Anaheim when Colorado came into town Jan 2017 ( when we went to Disneyland) I believe final score was 5-2 for the Ducks. ( Avs were shitty that year) Im no scout but I was extremely impressed by Mackinnon and Rantenan My old man came along as well and was also raving about Rantenan. I remember him saying “this kid is gonna be a player”.
    Iginla was also with them, but the only thing he had left was his shot. He was done.

  36. Bryan says:

    JP still hasn’t regained the confidence necessary to play at a high level. When he is feeling it he hangs on to the puck and does some good things with it. Right now it seems like he can’t get rid of it quick enough and doesn’t often look comfortable on the ice. It has been good for him to have a coach that doesn’t relegate him to the fourth line or press box every time something doesn’t go well but probably the best plan would have been to leave him in Bakersfield until he really had his mojo back. To lump him in with some previous misses already is silly. He resembles a baby giraffe at times on the ice still finding his way but I see a mountain of talent that needs the proper patience and guidance and the results will be worth the wait.

  37. Pescador says:

    frjohnk: Koskinen .927 save %, 2.20 GAA
    Talbot .895 save %, 3.12 GAA

    Koskinen started out very hot at the beginning of the year.
    Talbot looks to be consistent

    Both goalies have had a few good games over the last month, but its seem that they would have a bad game more often.And with our pea shooter offense when the 3 big guns on the bench, we dont have much chance of winning those games.

    Excellent thank you,
    So Koskinen- Klefbom = Killer.
    I’m firmly in the keep Talbot camp, he’s usually better or best down the stretch.
    I wouldn’t run Koskinen like a true #1 (70-30 split)
    The difference between the NHL schedule and the KHL is substantial.

  38. godot10 says:

    dessert1111:
    I’d love to see Eberle picked up as a rental of the Isles drop out of the race, if only because it’d take a bit of the sting off that trade (much like getting Rieder this year took some of the sting off as well).

    The Islanders dropping out of the race. That’s funny. Lou and Barry are making the magic happen. No Tavares. No problem.

    Hey Daryl…take a gander over there and see what good coaching and management can. And one can watch the Chiarelli line to boot.

  39. Dustylegnd says:

    godot10: The salary of an expiring contract is mostly irrelevant at the trade deadline.Most teams have bankedthe cap room to take on money.Plus the Oilers could retain some salary.

    For a team in need of a goaltender, Talbot isn’t going to cost a first round pick like Howard is going to cost.

    Any team in need of a goal tender that trades for Talbot, will still be in need of a goal tender….Talbot will bring 0 return….for once I agree with Burke

  40. Ryan says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    Awesome post.

    I mean what. We can’t have it both ways, right? Let’s say JP were stapled to McDavid this year and he scores 18 goals and 48 Mcpoints.

    His next contract starts with a four or five or more then he turns into a pumpkin next season.

    At the very least, I wouldn’t play any material prospect with McDavid heavily in a contract year.

    This is why we have the Draisatl contract.

  41. flyfish1168 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: This is an important point.

    The thing when comparing JP to other high end prospects is the the high end prospects got the TOI with the MacKinnons, Bergeron etc of the world and were left there.

    One can argue that the others “earned” their time with the best and Jesse hasn’t but I’m not sure that’s true.

    Drai didn’t produce above a 4th line rate away from Hall or 97 until he was 21.

    I might look at some other players and see if that is similar to their experience.

    Sam Bennett. He was one of the youngest players in the 2014 draft. Phlegms, unfortunately, has been patient with him and he is now showing promise.

  42. godot10 says:

    Dustylegnd: Any team in need of a goal tender that trades for Talbot, will still be in need of a goal tender….Talbot will bring 0 return….for once I agree with Burke

    Dubnyk, Broissoit…Talbot is on an expiring contract. A pretty good short term bet the problem was playing behind a lousy defense.

  43. Pescador says:

    Pescador: It’s great to have poise with the puck combine that with Bouchards world class vision & passing ability, he has a tool bag that the Oilers desperately need.
    That being said, the position is called Defense not Offense.
    You spend way more time on the ice without the puck than with. There is a chance that he could be something more then Oiler Jultz, but he needs to play in the AHL for a minimum of 1 year.
    Of course the Brass & some fans have him in the top 4 to start next season.

    Would love to see this in Bakersfield starting next season.
    Jones – Bouchard.
    Lagesson – Persson.
    Samorukov – Bear.
    Berglund.
    Run all the prospects, flush all the suspects.
    I would also look to trade 1 of these D prospects not named Jones or Bouchard plus a second round pick for a top 6 winger or 2RHD.
    Start next season with:
    Klefbom – Larsson.
    Nurse – Xxx (new hire)
    Russell – Benning/Petrovic
    Gravel.
    They are fucking it up choosing Manning over Gravel.
    Assholes

  44. tileguy says:

    Have the Oilers tried to extend any of their pending UFA’s yet? I guess you can’t get rid of Talbot if Miko wants the moon to play here next year, or is this best left to the end of the season?

  45. godot10 says:

    Some Europeans take a really long time to adjust to the NHL. The Sedins, Naslund, the Calgary Lindholm, took till 23.

  46. Andy Dufresne says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    Nice post. Thank you.

    Logic implies that the Oilers while in contention for the playoffs will do what makes sense to win each and every game, which means no JP on the top line.

    Logic also implies that if the Oilers ever intend to trade JP it would be once they are out of contention for the playoffs and can, as a result, play JP with McDavid in preperation for an offseason trade.

    So logic suggests that the probability of JP being traded in season is very low.

    Not to say that logic always applies.

    Today JPs trade value is definitely below his draft position and almost certainly below his potential to become a legit middle six winger.

    As things stand today, unless some team is willing to overpay, the confluence of JPs age, skill, underacheivement, contract status, and limited trade value make resigning him to a low cost low term second contract the most logical of options moving forward.

    Not to say that logic always prevails.

  47. Dustylegnd says:

    godot10: Dubnyk, Broissoit…Talbot is on an expiring contract.A pretty good short term bet the problem was playing behind a lousy defense.

    Dubnyk ran through 2 more organizations before he found the magic with Minnesota……Broissoit plays for an incredible jets team

  48. Andy Dufresne says:

    Munny:
    I have a hard time believing Talbot is for sale IF the goal is to make the playoffs.

    Also…

    Trust the MSM to put as much effort into damaging potential Oiler trade values as they are presently putting into thwarting McDavid’s Hart chances.After all, they did such a nice hatchet job on Hall and Eberle, why stop a good thing?

    +1

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    Caleb Jones is in tonight – being interviewed right now and seems no worse for where from the hit.

    Koskinen expected to start.

  50. geowal says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I see a contender with a questionable back up grabbing him.

    If CBJ trades Bob then I can see them grabbing him to back up Korpisalo.

    Might even get something like Nash back as he hasn’t meshed with Torts

    I was quite confused there for a moment; thinking “didn’t he retire? And when did he go back to CBJ?”
    Then google helped me out. Incidentally Riley is from Consort of all places.

  51. ArmchairGM says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    To determine if a player should play with McDavid, you need to look at how McDavid’s stats change with each option.

    Also, most of Puljujarvi’s “with McDavid” time also includes Lucic on the port side you need to separate the numbers to get a read on Puljujarvi.

  52. drglen says:

    I think I’ve been calling for bringing up the skilled kid line for about 3 months- if you can’t trade for skill ( and the oilers can’t trade for skill except at self inflicting wound rates, .. then you’ve got to roll the dice and look internally. But they won’t do it if they win. I say three losses in a row and that kid line comes up, or at least Benson.

    Yamo has at least held his own and created a bit, has he not?

    JP, hardly played last game, looking for reboot today, but as Hitch says, he trusts him, forechecks well, and is a third line winger which is good for a 20 year old. Dont’ trade him. When contract time comes he will be paid as per his actual value ( one hopes)

  53. JimmyV1965 says:

    Interesting comments from Strudwick yesterday. He was impressed with the pace of the practice yesterday and said there was some real jump out there. He specifically mentioned Lucic, Khaira and Cave. Said he’s never seen Lucic practice so hard.

  54. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: Benson is having a very good rookie pro season but is he going to move the needle at the NHL level? Very doubtful in my opinion so I would think he could just stay where he is, keep playing top minutes while being a leader, keep working with the coaching staff and help the playoff push.

    It’s very likely that Benson will get a shot of espresso some time this season. And there’s nothing wrong with that if/when it happens. As long as it stays at the demitasse size.

  55. drglen says:

    Dustylegnd: Dubnyk ran through 2 more organizations before he found the magic with Minnesota……Broissoit plays for an incredible jets team

    I”m forced to conclude that nobody actually wants Cam Talbot, viewing him perhaps as a backup in the Montoya class. Keep him as a backup for, maybe, a playoff run now, .. when new contract comes up, pay him only what he’s worth. ( about 1.75 mil? ) or ship him out.

    It’s really too bad about Dubnyk. Minnesota got really lucky as he did indeed get punted by two other teams. Maybe it goes to show, though, that Goalies are a mid-20s bloom.

  56. drglen says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Interesting comments from Strudwick yesterday. He was impressed with the pace of the practice yesterday and said there was some real jump out there. He specifically mentioned Lucic, Khaira and Cave. Said he’s never seen Lucic practice so hard.

    this is interesting… and something to watch for. I’m liking this Cave fellow and might be a good fit. Now is this an actual line?

  57. Professor Q says:

    I always wonder why we always have projections to play a good prospect with McDavid or Draisaitl to improve their contributions and performance, with the intent of increasing their trade value.

    Instead of enjoying that increase in performance in the wins the would be more likely to occur, as that should be the name of the game. Because after they’d be traded, we all know that the now lack of increased perfomance would be lamented.

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    Hitch really likes the things Jesse does. He helps the team wins games and that’s why he’s in the lineup. Even if he’s not currently a dynamic offensive player, he does lots of things on the ice that helps the team win. The issue right now is that his energy has been dropping which is a function of the games being really tough at this time of year with young guys getting run down so he needs to find a way to get him a breather.

  59. John Chambers says:

    Seriously, fuck Cathal Kelly.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/article-mcdavid-at-risk-of-becoming-another-nhl-picasso-who-paints-houses/

    The premise of this journalistic turd is that Oilers management is so incompetent in supporting Connor McDavid (which is true) that his talents are wasted on Edmonton and that he should ply his trade in a Canadian city that matters (which is absurd).

    If the Leafs don’t win a playoff series this spring, Austen Matthews will have won a big fat zero during his ELC, which is less of course than McDavid’s Oilers. In fact since the ‘05 lockout the Oil have won four playoff series’ to Toronto’s (ahem) zero. I feel bad for Mats Sundin. He should’ve plied his trade in another Canadian city as every other one, besides Toronto, made it to the Cup Final during his career.

    Infuriating that this comes from the same author who stated that Edmonton didn’t deserve World Cup games.

    I hope Matthews signs an offer sheet with Arizona, and Kelly can whip up some story about how athletes who sign with their hometown teams are jackasses, but that McDavid would be better suited as a Leaf.

  60. Professor Q says:

    John Chambers,

    Mats definitely should have been traded to Vancouver much earlier than when he got there. A few years younger, and he would have been amazing with the Sedins and Naslund and Linden.

  61. drglen says:

    John Chambers:
    Seriously, fuck Cathal Kelly.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/article-mcdavid-at-risk-of-becoming-another-nhl-picasso-who-paints-houses/

    The premise of this journalistic turd is that Oilers management is so incompetent in supporting Connor McDavid (which is true) that his talents are wasted on Edmonton and that he should ply his trade in a Canadian city that matters (which is absurd).

    If the Leafs don’t win a playoff series this spring, he’ll have won a big fat zero in his ELC, which is less of course than the Oilers. In fact since the ‘05 lockout the Oil have won four playoff series’ to Toronto’s (ahem) zero. I feel bad for Mats Sundin. He should’ve plied his trade in another Canadian city as every other one, besides Toronto, made it to the Cup Final during his career.

    Infuriating that this comes from the same author who stated that Edmonton didn’t deserve World Cup games.

    I hope Matthews signs an offer sheet with Arizona, and Kelly can whip up some story about how athletes who sign with their hometown teams are jackasses, but that McDavid would be better suited as a Leaf.

    I lived in Toronto… as i’ve said before since they own the biggest soap box they seem to feel entitled to climb up and preach. Craig Button is usually pretty good…. But you’ve got a point, let’s see them actually win a playoff round. Right now we are ‘tied’ at 1 to 1 ( or wait, have the Leafs actually won a playoff round recently?)

  62. Munny says:

    John Chambers,

    The hatchet jobs will continue…

  63. Professor Q says:

    John Chambers,

    Also, apparently McDavid being on the Oilers caused the NHL to deny him the chance to go to the Olympics. Because if he was on a major city’s team they would have allowed the players to go.

    If that hypothesis made any less sense, it would make even the MSM embarrassed.

  64. Ben says:

    John Chambers: he should ply his trade in a Canadian city that matters (which is absurd).

    He says absolutely nothing of the kind. Read it again.

    The article is spot on.

  65. Professor Q says:

    Ben: He says absolutely nothing of the kind. Read it again.

    The article is spot on.

    No, it isn’t.

  66. drglen says:

    Professor Q:
    John Chambers,

    Also, apparently McDavid being on the Oilers caused the NHL to deny him the chance to go to the Olympics. Because if he was on a major city’s team they would have allowed the players to go.

    If that hypothesis made any less sense, it would even make the MSM embarrassed.

    What? That’s just ignorant, oh well perhaps his job is to provoke replies. Not to get off topic, but,.. I loved the olympics without the NHL players, this last time and especially back in the 80s. I don’t even think the ‘world cup of hockey’ idea makes sense

  67. Ben says:

    Professor Q: No, it isn’t.

    Go on….

    The author is simply and clearly saying it’s unfortunate that due to 1) Oiler management incompetence (and he compares this to how crappy Toronto management was for decades) and 2) the league failing to provide international platforms, that there’s been a failure to expose McDavid’s skill to a broader audience. Completely fucking true.

    I understand that as Oiler fans we’re sensitive to reactionary Toronto McDavid jealousy, but this article just ain’t that.

  68. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    dessert1111:
    I’d love to see Eberle picked up as a rental of the Isles drop out of the race, if only because it’d take a bit of the sting off that trade (much like getting Rieder this year took some of the sting off as well).

    NYI is in first place in the Metropolitan today.

    Eastern Conference Playoff Standings using Points Percentage expressed as points over/under fake Bettman .500

    Atlantic
    TBY 26
    TOR 13
    BOS 11

    Metropolitan
    NYI 13
    CBJ 12
    WSH 12

    Wildcard
    PIT 11
    MTL 10

    Out of playoffs
    BUF 6
    CAR 2
    NYR 0
    FLA -2
    NJD -4
    OTT -5
    PHI -5
    DET -6

  69. JimmyV1965 says:

    Pescador: Would love to see this in Bakersfield starting next season.
    Jones – Bouchard.
    Lagesson – Persson.
    Samorukov– Bear.
    Berglund.
    Run all the prospects, flush all the suspects.
    I would also look to trade 1 of these D prospects not named Jones or Bouchard plus a second round pick for a top 6 winger or 2RHD.
    Start next season with:
    Klefbom – Larsson.
    Nurse – Xxx (new hire)
    Russell – Benning/Petrovic
    Gravel.
    They are fucking it up choosing Manning over Gravel.
    Assholes

    I don’t think you can have that many dmen prospects playing in the AHL. Running Samaroukov, Bear and Bergland as the five, six and seven is not optimal for their development.

  70. HT Joe says:

    I’m not sure how the article is being interpreted as saying the McDavid should leave the Oilers to go to a bigger market team like the Leafs…

    Blame assigned to the league:
    “If McDavid can’t fully display his talent in Edmonton, he ought to at least be given the chance to do it for Canada. But based on its current view – you might call it “Neither the forest nor the trees” − the NHL won’t allow that either.”

    Proposing some level of hope that the Oilers get better over the next couple of year:
    “The law of averages suggests that McDavid will be a top player for at least the next decade. Whether by skill or random chance (so, random chance), it also suggests that Oilers will be good at some point in there… If you care about hockey – and regardless of whether you root for the Oilers – you ought to hope that happens. The sport can’t be great if its best player doesn’t get the chance to be.”

    What should McDavid do? Leave the city? Demand a trade? Nope…
    “And what can McDavid do? Nothing but what he already has – be great. He’ll get his ring some day.”

    The article trashes the Oilers management on a public stage (good), complains about the league pulling players from the Olympics (also good), and labels McDavid as the best player in the league (good).

    Did I miss a quote where the author indicates that McDavid should be moved to a different Canadian team like Toronto? Should I be reading between the lines?

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    Devils scored first but ANA has scored 2 in the first to take the lead.

  72. John Chambers says:

    Ben: He says absolutely nothing of the kind. Read it again.

    The article is spot on.

    I see your point. He doesn’t suggest McDavif should abandon Edmonton, but does say his talents are being wasted in Edmonton.

    I want Chiarelli fired too, but I will credit him with something: he got 97 on a max-term contract. Edmonton fans get to enjoy this player during his prime. We undoubtedly want him to succeed more than anyone else (and therefore scrutinize management like a job). Saying Oilers management is failing is nothing new or insightful.

    There are EIGHT years on the McDavid contract, twenty months after his team came within a game of the conference finals. The player is turning twenty-two. Comparing him to Marcel Dionne is a farce.

  73. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Munny:
    John Chambers,

    The hatchet jobs will continue…

    Until Burger Bob fires the deadwood

  74. Ben says:

    John Chambers: but does say his talents are being wasted in Edmonton.

    To be fair, I think he’s saying his talents are being wasted *by* Edmonton–not that success here is impossible.

    If this piece has been published on Oilers Nation or something, highly doubt it would be as “triggering”. But I understand how at first glance it seems to fit into a very obnoxious eastern media narrative.

  75. drglen says:

    Ben: Go on….

    The author is simply and clearly saying it’s unfortunate that due to 1) Oiler management incompetence (and he compares this to how crappy Toronto management was for decades) and 2) the league failing to provide international platforms, that there’s been a failure to expose McDavid’s skill to a broader audience. Completely fucking true.

    I understand that as Oiler fans we’re sensitive to reactionary Toronto McDavid jealousy, but this article just ain’t that.

    OK read it. You know what, there is some skill here, lots of craft, and a nice tone and cadence to this wriiting. This guys is a good writer. He tries to strengthen his position by tying Mcdavid to Marcell Dionne, and does this first, and that is interesting and crafty.

    He does not actually say that McDavid in non-big city caused loss of NHL to olympics and/or loss of World cup of hockey… but…. it is placed in such a way that one sunconsciouly associates the two. ( loosly related to early statement about Dionne not being selected for Canada cup teams… he seeded that in there)

    The subtext also implies that , Yes, McDavid ought to be a big market team , oilers management is to blame for his lack of exposure ( aka making and winning playoff rounds..I guess)… .. but the overall effect after reading it is that, Gosh, wouldn’t it be nice if McDavid played for the leafs, or some other Canadian team… ah… what, Habs, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg… does he think McD should play for them? )

    It’s a really, really crafty and skilled piece of work here, that conveys ‘McDavid should have played for the Leafs where his talents would not be wasted and EVERYONE in the hockey world would benefit”, .. but he never says it directly.

  76. Pescador says:

    JimmyV1965: I don’t think you can have that many dmen prospects playing in the AHL. Running Samaroukov, Bear and Bergland as the five, six and seven is not optimal for their development.

    I hear ya, just something I would like to see.
    I think you could spread the minutes around fairly evenly.
    Jones will probably not spend much if any time in the AHL next season.
    If he does, I would count Jones, Bear & Lagesson as AHL sophomores- journeymen.
    Perrson is already 24.
    Only true rookies would be Bouchard, Samorukov & Berglund.
    Of the players I did not mention, are there any you would keep over my group?

  77. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    frjohnk: I would suspect that those players on other teams were maybe showing something with those teams internal numbers, but its a guess.

    JP has had two different opinions now, 3 if one includes Guluztan, as Im sure he has had some input on JP, and all are saying the same thing when looking at TOI and quality of teammates.

    On a side note, I happened to catch a game in Anaheim when Colorado came into town Jan 2017 ( when we went to Disneyland) I believe final score was 5-2 for the Ducks. ( Avs were shitty that year) Im no scout but I was extremely impressed by Mackinnon and RantenanMy old man came along as well and was also raving about Rantenan.I remember him saying “this kid is gonna be a player”.
    Iginla was also with them, but the only thing he had left was his shot.He was done.

    I’m not sure what everything is that Hitch uses, but I know zone time, plays to keep ozone time alive, and puck battles won/lost are among them.

    I can see why he’s not with 97, but less so with 93.

    He played 33 minutes with 97 this year (away from 93) and they didn’t score. That’s enough.

    Here’s some for/against rates WOWY for 93 and 98 (no 97 on ice)

    CF/60
    with JP 41.9
    w/o JP 46.1

    CA/60
    with JP 59.4
    w/o JP 63.4

    CF%
    with JP 41.4
    w/o JP 42.1

    GF/60
    with JP 2.45
    w/o JP 3.09

    GA/60
    with JP 2.75
    w/o JP 3.09

    I think that while 93’s results away from 98 are similar to with, its the fact that the results with 98 are pretty meh and Hitch is trying to find some combo that gets 93’s results into the black.

  78. drglen says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I’m not sure what everything is that Hitch uses, but I know zone time, plays to keep ozone time alive, and puck battles won/lost are among them.

    I can see why he’s not with 97, but less so with 93.

    He played 33 minutes with 97 this year (away from 93) and they didn’t score.That’s enough.

    Here’s some for/against rates WOWY for 93 and 98 (no 97 on ice)

    CF/60
    with JP 41.9
    w/o JP 46.1

    CA/60
    with JP 59.4
    w/o JP 63.4

    CF%
    with JP 41.4
    w/o JP 42.1

    GF/60
    with JP 2.45
    w/o JP 3.09

    GA/60
    with JP 2.75
    w/o JP 3.09

    I think that while 93’s results away from 98 are similar to with, its the fact that the results with 98 are pretty meh and Hitch is trying to find some combo that gets 93’s results into the black.

    so play JP with skill players not really meaningful now, but the defensive side is an edge. JP , and McD’s line, probably being used properly at the moment. Maybe he slides JP up to the line to, heaven forbid, help preserve a lead?

  79. Pescador says:

    Woodguy v2.0: NYI is in first place in the Metropolitan today.

    Eastern Conference Playoff Standings using Points Percentage expressed as points over/under fake Bettman .500

    Atlantic
    TBY 26
    TOR 13
    BOS 11

    Metropolitan
    NYI 13
    CBJ 12
    WSH 12

    Wildcard
    PIT 11
    MTL 10

    Out of playoffs
    BUF 6
    CAR 2
    NYR 0
    FLA -2
    NJD -4
    OTT -5
    PHI -5
    DET -6

    Barry Trotz is the real deal,
    I miss Eberle, he was a Flame killer.

  80. JimmyV1965 says:

    Until Oilers mngt changes and we actually start operating the team in a professional manner, we will continue to be crapped on by media in other markets. When analysts rate prospects, our guys will continue to be downgraded simply because they were drafted by the Oilers. If Bouchard was drafted by Tampa, he would be on Button’s list, not because he has an axe to grind, but because a team with an excellent record of drafting and developing selected him. When and if we start winning, this type of stuff goes away. It is what it is.

  81. 99266in87 says:

    Tier 2 fan here, going to probably one and only game tonight with my kids and brother and his kids coming in from Saskatoon today. Everyone is excited, hoping to have a great Rogers experience. Now, a win, a Tkhatchuk and Johnny Hockey pasting somewhere, and McDeity doing McDeity things on the ice will be money well spent. Oh, T2 fan will be in T2 🙂

  82. Ice Sage says:

    It’s a beautiful Saturday.
    The Oilers are likely to get steamrolled tonight – seen this script many times.
    It pains me, but the Calgary Flames have built a hockey team properly: vets and youth, agile defenders and astute trades. Depth… sigh

  83. JimmyV1965 says:

    Pescador: I hear ya, just something I would like to see.
    I think you could spread the minutes around fairly evenly.
    Jones will probably not spend much if any time in the AHL next season.
    If he does, I would count Jones, Bear & Lagesson as AHL sophomores- journeymen.
    Perrson is already 24.
    Only true rookies would be Bouchard, Samorukov & Berglund.
    Of the players I did not mention, are there any you would keep over my group?

    I don’t know what the solution is. I think Jones will be with the big club and maybe one more kid. Maybe you send someone to the ECHL. But there will be a logjam of dmen prospects next year and it’s a damn serious issue. You need a couple minor league vets on your AHL defence as well. You can’t have d group made up entirely of rookies and sophomores. Someone will likely have to be traded. The question is who do you trade and do we trust the person making that decision?

  84. Shane says:

    I’m on board with Gravel is better than Manning and I don’t consider myself a bloodthirsty fan but if Tkachuk is doing Tkachuk-y things tonight I wouldn’t mind it if Brandon gave him the ol’ collarbone strength test at the end boards.

    Obviously, without hurting the team with penalties..

  85. Alpine says:

    godot10: The Islanders dropping out of the race.That’s funny.Lou and Barry are making the magic happen.No Tavares.No problem.

    Hey Daryl…take a gander over there and see what good coaching and management can.And one can watch the Chiarelli line to boot.

    The Isles are your annual PDO hounds. They have the highest PDO in the league. They might make the playoffs, but they’re not real.

  86. --hudson-- says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    That’s a really interesting set of numbers so appreciate you sharing them!

    I’m curious what the numbers look like if you remove the time on ice of both McDavid and the dregs. I would guess Jesses “true” production is higher then his McDavid off number since we know the Oilers have below average 2nd, 3rd and an above average 4th line.

    Not sure how to do that operation on naturalstatstrick though.

  87. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Pescador: Excellent thank you,
    So Koskinen- Klefbom = Killer.
    I’m firmly in the keep Talbot camp, he’s usually better or best down the stretch.
    I wouldn’t run Koskinen like a true #1 (70-30 split)
    The difference between the NHL schedule and the KHL is substantial.

    – both koski and Talbot can walk after this year

    – even Talbot playing at his best for the rest of year I wouldn’t resign him and I doubt the oil does unless it’s a 1 year 2.5mm contract

    – so knowing Talbot isn’t resigned it behoves the oil to trade him. Whatever small asset you get with him also allows for the same pro-rata 4.2mm winger rental in return

    – that’s what I’d do. Trade Talbot for a winger rental of samish cap and there are actually so interesting ones on expiring contracts as well.

  88. OriginalPouzar says:

    ANA maintains their 2-1 lead on NJD at the end of two despite getting outshot 22-10.

    Elite level goaltending – Gibson is the only reason that team is still in the race.

    That’s OK though, I think the Oilers might be highly reliant on a player or two.

  89. Munny says:

    John Chambers,

    Strange that he didn’t choose to compare McDavid to Yzerman or Lindros…

  90. Professor Q says:

    Munny:
    John Chambers,

    Strange that he didn’t choose to compare McDavid to Yzerman or Lindros…

    Washington wasted Ovechkin. Shame.

  91. OriginalPouzar says:

    The big acquisition, Derek Grant extends ANA’s lead to 2 in the 3rd period – blah.

    Getting outshot 25-12 but up 3-1.

  92. JimmyV1965 says:

    I find it interesting that Talbot has no trade value, yet by all accounts Simmonds has tremendous trade value. I don’t think either have been very good for the last two years, yet many people are projecting that Simmonds gets a first round pick at the deadline.

  93. Ben says:

    Was it Woodguy who called hockey “mostly goalie”? Thanks for nuthin’, NJ.

    Surprised more people aren’t firmly in pre-panic mode about the Oilers’ goaltending moving forward.

    So…let’s hear your guesses as to which goalie gets the majority of Edmonton’s starts next year. Will it be:

    1) Koskiwin (or Losskinen)

    2) Talbot

    3) ???????? (your best guess here)

    I’ll guess Varlamov.

  94. Woogie63 says:

    Third pairing next year?

    Ethan Bear 18 NHL games 1-3-4; 18:38 TOI/GP, 23.2 shifts per game; is 3rd and 9th for rookie dman in the NHL.

    Caleb Jones 15 NHL games 1-4-5; 20:37 TOI/GP, 25.7 shifts per games – Both measurements is 3rd for rookie dman in the NHL.

    Both are better puck mover than the current options. At the end of this year, both will have played more than 100 games as a pro and auditioned well enough in the NHL. This part of the cap solution. Calgary has been playing two rookies on the third pair and it has worked really well.

    Jones-Bear $1.4M

    Manning-Petrovic $4.2 M
    Benning-Petrovic 3.8M
    Manning-Benning $4.2M

    Watch for Pete to trade one or two of these three (depending on where we are) to an eastern team looking for that insurance dman for a long play-off run

  95. workaroundaccount says:

    JP isn’t going to be the player we thought he was, but that doesn’t mean we should flush him. He has no trade value beyond a pick outside of 100. The Oilers tendency with this type is to send him to Siberia for making them look foolish. That’s why they’ve moved so many players for nothing over the years. JP can be a good 3line option down the road. He may even push for 2line. That still has value, and the team needs to start keeping the most talent they can. Or more likely they flip him for a nobody, or a late pick, then go to the summer and try to replace him with a PTO.

  96. workaroundaccount says:

    JimmyV1965:
    I find it interesting that Talbot has no trade value, yet by all accounts Simmonds has tremendous trade value. I don’t think either have been very good for the last two years, yet many people are projecting that Simmonds gets a first round pick at the deadline.

    Simmonds not very good is a 20-25 goal scorer. Talbot’s not bery good is an average backup, who gives up a goal on the first shot about a dozen times a season

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    NJD pull to within one with under a minute left but can’t complete the comeback: ANA will pull two points ahead of the Oilers but the Oilers will have 2 games in hand.

    COL up 1-0 on LAK in the first.

  98. frjohnk says:

    Ben: So…let’s hear your guesses as to which goalie gets the majority of Edmonton’s starts next year. Will it be:

    1) Koskiwin (or Losskinen)

    2) Talbot

    3) ???????? (your best guess here)

    Its looking most likely door number 3.

    Id be surprised to see Talbot back. And with over half the season gone by, we still dont know what we really have in Koskinen. More likely he is a backup than a number 1 goalie.

    Oilers will most likely be looking for a number 1 goalie this summer.

  99. frjohnk says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – both koski and Talbot can walk after this year

    – even Talbot playing at his best for the rest of year I wouldn’t resign him and I doubt the oil does unless it’s a 1 year 2.5mm contract

    – so knowing Talbot isn’t resigned it behoves the oil to trade him. Whatever small asset you get with him also allows for the same pro-rata 4.2mm winger rental in return

    – that’s what I’d do. Trade Talbot for a winger rental of samish cap and there are actually so interesting ones on expiring contracts as well.

    Oilers wont trade Talbot unless they are firmly out of a playoff spot.

  100. OmJo says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Korpisalo

    Is he the love child of Salo and Korpikoski?

  101. ArmchairGM says:

    workaroundaccount: Simmonds not very good is a 20-25 goal scorer. Talbot’s not bery good is an average backup, who gives up a goal on the first shot about a dozen times a season

    I believe Talbot has been better than league average under Hitchcock.

  102. OriginalPouzar says:

    Avs Up 5-0 on LA so they will stay out ahead (Oil are only 1 point back butvwill soon be 3 points back – with a game in hand). I think it’s actually Dallas in the first wild card one point ahead (well, ANA now with their win today).

    My goodness, this team is right in the race for both wild card slots.

    Crazy.

  103. Revolved says:

    2016/17 – 2018/19 5×5 with McDavid via NST
    Player TOI Goals/60 PrimaryPoints/60
    Jujhar Khaira 81.6 2.21 3.68
    Zack Kassian 153.6 1.95 2.73
    Ty Rattie 324.7 1.48 2.77
    Jesse Puljujarvi 391.8 1.38 2.45
    Leon Draisaitl 1631.2 1.36 2.43
    Alex Chiasson 231.5 1.3 1.82
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 491.8 1.22 2.32
    Milan Lucic 912.5 0.92 1.91
    Kailer Yamamoto 141.6 0.85 1.27

  104. razor says:

    Man Stone would be amazing with our three centres. This is the guy Chia should be targeting with the first round pick. Something like 1st, Yamamoto, and Bear can get it done? Could we fit him in a long term deal if we somehow could unload Lucic?

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think if the Oil can get 4 points out of these last 3 games before their 10-day break, it should set them up nicely.

    Klef will be back after the break and we may get a second top 4 d-man around that time or shortly thereafter.

    Here is hoping that Jesse, Kailer and Caleb get re-assigned to the Bake during the 10-day break (they play quite a few games) and help the Condors (who have now won three in a row I believe) and play some more big minutes.

  106. Revolved says:

    2016/17 – 2018/19 5×5 with Nugent-Hopkins via NST
    Player TOI Goals/60 PrimaryPoints/60
    Jujhar Khaira 111 2.16 2.16
    Connor McDavid 491.8 0.85 1.95
    Zack Kassian 319.2 0.94 1.69
    Jesse Puljujarvi 370.9 0.81 1.62
    Ty Rattie 259.9 0.92 1.61
    Milan Lucic 844.6 0.99 1.56
    Alex Chiasson 100.2 0.6 0.6
    Leon Draisaitl 209.5 0 0.57
    Kailer Yamamoto 112.1 0 0.54
    Ryan Spooner 56.3 0 0

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    Professor Q:
    With all of Bouchard’s doubters and with him being underrated as of late, I do hope he becomes like an injury-free Klefbom (also underrated), or more.

    That would be sweet justice, in my opinion.

    I’m not sure that Klef is a great comparison – totally different type of player, in particular with Klef being a plus skater. With that said, if he can have Klef’s impact then, yes, I’ll take that for sure.

    As an aside, there is an example of the the Oilers drafting a developing a player – they took their time with Klef as a mid-late first round pick, developed him properly in to a top pairing d-man – nope, not an elite top pairing guy but a top-pairing guy.

  108. workaroundaccount says:

    ArmchairGM,

    .905, which would put him 35th overall, so upper level backup. That’s probablt cherry picking though.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: The salary of an expiring contract is mostly irrelevant at the trade deadline.Most teams have bankedthe cap room to take on money.Plus the Oilers could retain some salary.

    For a team in need of a goaltender, Talbot isn’t going to cost a first round pick like Howard is going to cost.

    Generally you are right about the cap space but not always. For example, the Oilers could be buyers but they have next to no cap space. Once the LTIR relief is gone, they will likely be very close to the upper cap limit and will have accumulated and banked a nominal amount of cap space throughout the year due to being above their adjusted cap accrual threshold.

    If they are in real seller’s mode and “selling” Talbot then, sure, retain, however, a Talbot trade out could be made in conjunction with opening up that cap space for forward acquisition for this year. In that case, retaining is not a great option.

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    and you know who doesn’t get any bump playing with McDavid (and actually scores at lower rates)? Alex Chiasson. McDavid also scores at lower rates with Alex Chiasson.

    You know is one of the few players with positive goal share away from McDavid? Alex Chiasson.

    Who does our coach insist on playing with McDavid? Alex Chiasson.

    I hate it.

  111. Revolved says:

    2016/17 – 2018/19 5×5 with McDavid via NST
    Player OnIceGoalsFor/60 OnIceGoalsAgainst/60 GF%
    Zack Kassian 4.3 1.95 68.75
    Jesse Puljujarvi 3.52 1.99 63.89
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 3.66 2.2 62.5
    Jujhar Khaira 4.41 2.94 60
    Leon Draisaitl 3.75 2.61 58.96
    Milan Lucic 3.02 2.17 58.23
    Kailer Yamamoto 1.7 1.27 57.14
    Alex Chiasson 2.85 2.59 52.38
    Ty Rattie 4.07 3.7 52.38

  112. Revolved says:

    2016/17 – 2018/19 5×5 with Nugent-Hopkins via NST
    Player OnIceGoalsFor/60 OnIceGoalsAgainst/60 GF%
    Connor McDavid 3.66 2.2 62.5
    Ty Rattie 3.92 2.54 60.71
    Milan Lucic 2.56 1.92 57.14
    Kailer Yamamoto 0.54 0.54 50
    Zack Kassian 2.63 2.63 50
    Leon Draisaitl 2.86 2.86 50
    Jujhar Khaira 3.24 3.24 50
    Jesse Puljujarvi 1.94 2.27 46.15
    Alex Chiasson 2.4 2.99 44.44
    Tobias Rieder 0 3.87 0
    Ryan Spooner 0 4.27 0

  113. Biggus Dickus says:

    workaroundaccount:
    ArmchairGM,

    .905, which would put him 35th overall, so upper level backup. That’s probablt cherry picking though.

    Also .905 over the last 2 years. 51st out of goalies with over 1000 min played. 61 goalies in that category. Puts him in the bottom 15% of all NHL starters/backups. If you expand to 2000 min, he becomes 40/51. Still basically bottom 20%.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    dessert1111:
    I’d love to see Eberle picked up as a rental of the Isles drop out of the race, if only because it’d take a bit of the sting off that trade (much like getting Rieder this year took some of the sting off as well).

    I see no way the Oilers can take on a $6M rental.

    We’ll be right at the cap and accumulated and banked almost no additional cap during the year due to being into the LTIR cushion and over the adjusted cap accrual threshold.

    They could potentially move Talbot out and then rent an Eberle to get close.

    Lets also not forget, the NYI are in 1st place in their division

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bryan:
    JP still hasn’t regained the confidence necessary to play at a high level.When he is feeling it he hangs on to the puck and does some good things with it.Right now it seems like he can’t get rid of it quick enough and doesn’t often look comfortable on the ice.It has been good for him to have a coach that doesn’t relegate him to the fourth line or press box every time something doesn’t go well but probably the best plan would have been to leave him in Bakersfield until he really had his mojo back.To lump him in with some previous misses already is silly.He resembles a baby giraffe at times on the ice still finding his way but I see a mountain of talent that needs the proper patience and guidance and the results will be worth the wait.

    The thing with confidence is it can swing at a moments notice – JP makes a plus play and scores a goal – boom increase in confidence.

  116. Pescador says:

    Woogie63:
    Third pairing next year?

    Jones-Bear $1.4M

    Manning-Petrovic $4.2 M
    Benning-Petrovic 3.8M
    Manning-Benning $4.2M

    Watch for Pete to trade one or two of these three (depending on where we are) to an eastern team looking for that insurance dman for a long play-off run

    PC will trade the 2 that he should keep, that much is a given

  117. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10:
    Some Europeans take a really long time to adjust to the NHL.The Sedins, Naslund, the Calgary Lindholm, took till 23.

    Hitch was express yesterday that Jesse is still having issues with the smaller ice surface, still adjusting. I think that often takes longer than we think for may European prospects.

    Not to mention: he’s only 20, “bigger/power forward” players generally take longer to develop, etc.

  118. Revolved says:

    Sorry for the data bombs.
    I haven’t shown any data for Draisaitl.
    I haven’t removed time with McDavid from RNH’s data, which pushes up Rattie’s numbers in particular.
    But, we have workable wingers for our centres:

    Khaira – McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Lucic – RNH – Rattie/Kassian
    Rieder – Draisaitl – Chiasson

    Now if only Pettie could find a fourth line that didn’t get caved.

  119. OriginalPouzar says:

    drglen:
    I think I’ve been calling for bringing up the skilled kid line for about 3 months- if you can’t trade for skill ( and the oilers can’t trade for skill except at self inflicting wound rates, .. then you’ve got to roll the dice and look internally.But they won’t do it if they win.I say three losses in a row and that kid line comes up, or at least Benson.

    Yamo has at least held his own and created a bit, has he not?

    JP, hardly played last game, looking for reboot today, but as Hitch says, he trusts him, forechecks well, and is a third line winger which is good for a 20 year old. Dont’ trade him. When contract time comes he will be paid as per his actual value ( one hopes)

    I can’t imagine that bringing up Marody, Benson and Currie is going to move the needle one iota at the NHL level. Its not going to make the Oilers better and it sure isn’t going to help the Condors. It could be a negative for the development.

    I remain firm from watching the games that Benson should complete the year in the AHL – he’s developing nicely and working on various parts of his game. Lots of teams allow their 2nd round picks to spend entire seasons, sometimes multiple seasons, in the AHL even when performing well.

    The Oilers need to get away from wanting to call up a player at the first sign of success in the AHL.

    In my opinon.

  120. Woogie63 says:

    +50 games with their current clubs AHL team – groomed through the teams system.

    Oilers 3
    Khaira
    Puljujarvi
    Jones

    Flames 8
    Giordano
    Brodie
    Andersson
    Klingon
    Maniapane
    Jankowski
    Hathaway
    Backlund

    Winnipeg has 10 players on the current roster with 50 or more games with the Moose- I think that is the best in the league

  121. OriginalPouzar says:

    frjohnk: Oilers wont trade Talbot unless they are firmly out of a playoff spot.

    Very likely true – except for the case where they are looking to improve and are trading him for the cap space because, without it, they have essentially no ability to acquire.

    In that situation, they are obviously still “in it” so its a big risk but only one goalie can play at a time.

  122. tileguy says:

    Did everybody forget how Eberle plays in the playoffs?

  123. Zelepukin says:

    OriginalPouzar: Hitch was express yesterday that Jesse is still having issues with the smaller ice surface, still adjusting. I think that often takes longer than we think for may European prospects.

    Not to mention: he’s only 20, “bigger/power forward” players generally take longer to develop, etc.

    Absolutely. I loved those comments from Hitch.

    The armchair GMs want to move JP because they expected him to be producing more by now. I think Hitch and company can see the potential in him definitely being a top 6 forward. Patience is needed but only if he has a great teacher. Hitch could be it. Definitely the verbal is better than anything McL ever said. We don’t even know if McL taught any young players anything.

    He has size, but not hockey weight. Man legs if you will. Mentally and playing style, he is similar to Drai in the puck protection potential.

    Smooth skater but not NHL acceleration yet. He has a long stride, bent quite far over and does a lot of reaching as a result of it. Most likely compensation for not having that extra step yet. The good thing, as he gets stronger and older, it will come. And he already has a great stick.

    I believe PJ is going to be a valuable top 6 player. He is a smart player with good defensive capabilities. His adjustment to the NHL game is what everyone is impatient with, but he has the right physical tools to make it happen.

  124. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    frjohnk: Its looking most likely door number 3.

    Id be surprised to see Talbot back.And with over half the season gone by, we still dont know what we really have in Koskinen.More likely he is a backup than a number 1 goalie.

    Oilers will most likely be looking for a number 1 goalie this summer.

    I’d bet a reasonable amount that they re-sign Koskinen

  125. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Woogie63:
    +50 games with their current clubs AHL team – groomed through the teams system.

    Oilers 3
    Khaira
    Puljujarvi
    Jones

    Flames 8
    Giordano
    Brodie
    Andersson
    Klingon
    Maniapane
    Jankowski
    Hathaway
    Backlund

    Winnipeg has 10 players on the current roster with 50 or more games with the Moose- I think that is the best in the league

    Cool data, thanks!

    Did you look at ANA and TBY?

    They currently have very good draft and develop reputations.

  126. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Revolved:
    Sorry for the data bombs.
    I haven’t shown any data for Draisaitl.
    I haven’t removed time with McDavid from RNH’s data, which pushes up Rattie’s numbers in particular.
    But, we have workable wingers for our centres:

    Khaira – McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Lucic – RNH – Rattie/Kassian
    Rieder – Draisaitl – Chiasson

    Now if only Pettie could find a fourth line that didn’t get caved.

    Love the data bombs!

    Keep it up please.

  127. Pescador says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I’d bet a reasonable amount that they re-sign Koskinen

    I wonder how much backup money Talbot would accept, $2m × 2.
    Is he really going to land substantial FA dollars on th open market.
    Koskiinen for $4.5, or is that low balling?
    Essentially swap their contracts, and shore up the D by finding a better 2RD than Russell

  128. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    workaroundaccount:
    JP isn’t going to be the player we thought he was, but that doesn’t mean we should flush him. He has no trade value beyond a pick outside of 100. The Oilers tendency with this type is to send him to Siberia for making them look foolish. That’s why they’ve moved so many players for nothing over the years. JP can be a good 3line option down the road. He may even push for 2line. That still has value, and the team needs to start keeping the most talent they can. Or more likely they flip him for a nobody, or a late pick, then go to the summer and try to replace him with a PTO.

    He might be the player we think we was going to be.

    He might be 24 or so when that happens.

    Lots of smoke coming our of the org (most of it via Friedman) that a significant portion of the management group is in the “keep JP and let him grow up” camp.

    The fact that EDM Management has “camps” is one of the main reasons that we are here.

  129. jtblack says:

    Pescador: I wonder how much backup money Talbot would accept, $2m × 2.
    Is he really going to land substantial FA dollars on th open market.
    Koskiinen for $4.5, or is that low balling?
    Essentially swap their contracts, and shore up the D by finding a better 2RD than Russell

    Question. If edm re-signed Talbot would they have to qualify at a minimum of his current deal AAV?

  130. frjohnk says:

    Woodguy v2.0: EDM Management has “cramps”

    FTFY

  131. HT Joe says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I’d bet a reasonable amount that they re-sign Koskinen

    Even if he was underwhelming in the playoffs, his regular season points helped get them into the playoffs.

  132. Gerta Rauss says:

    jtblack: Question.If edm re-signed Talbot would they have to qualify at a minimum of his current deal AAV?

    No, that’s just RFA’s

    They can offer/sign Talbot to whatever they feel like and he can sign/not sign based on whatever he feels he’s worth

    I think they sign Koskinen and trade/try to trade Talbot at the deadline and then they sign a 1B type goalie (Varlamov) on July 1 (ie a goalie with at least a track record of being a #1)

  133. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Pescador: I wonder how much backup money Talbot would accept, $2m × 2.
    Is he really going to land substantial FA dollars on th open market.
    Koskiinen for $4.5, or is that low balling?
    Essentially swap their contracts, and shore up the D by finding a better 2RD than Russell

    I think Talbot will wait out the starters spots to fill before he takes backup money.

    DET, CBJ, CAR, EDM will be looking for a starter. Maybe more.

  134. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    smellyglove,

    frjohnk: Oilers wont trade Talbot unless they are firmly out of a playoff spot.

    – you may be right and even if Talbot gets you a 5th I still think you get rid of him and spend that on a winger in a series of moves.

    – you give koski 25 starts down the stretch and the rest to the kids or any cheap goalie

    – you’ve got to see what koski can do and you give Starrett Wells Montoya and or waiver wire goalie the rest.

    – having another scoring winger > than the theoritical difference between whoever replaces Talbots start imo. It’s the most elegant solution.

    – and if koski shits the bed you are looking for new goalies new coach and new gm in the off season

    – Talbot is the one salary that if removed can be used on the same ilk winger also expiring contract

    *removing Talbot who deserves a chance elsewhere gets you a up to 4mm winger. Massive potential upgrade for free.

  135. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    tileguy:
    Did everybody forget how Eberle plays in the playoffs?

    *looks at EDM scoring without 97*

    *looks at Spooner as a buyout candidate*

    Did you forget his 201 goals in his 631 NHL games and just focus on 14 games?

    39th most prolific scorer in the last 6 years, but fuck that guy because of 14 games.

  136. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack: Question.If edm re-signed Talbot would they have to qualify at a minimum of his current deal AAV?

    Nope.

    That’s just a RFA thing

  137. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    HT Joe: Even if he was underwhelming in the playoffs, his regular season points helped get them into the playoffs.

    I think you quoted the wrong post Joe.

    Agreed.

    During EDM’s 13-4-1 run from March 1-April 15 2017 he was 3rd on the team in 5v5 pts/60

    But fuck that guy because of 14 games.

  138. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Gerta Rauss: No, that’s just RFA’s

    They can offer/sign Talbot to whatever they feel like and he can sign/not sign based on whatever he feels he’s worth

    I think they sign Koskinen and trade/try to trade Talbot at the deadline and then they sign a 1B type goalie (Varlamov) on July 1 (ie a goalie with at least a track record of being a #1)

    COL isn’t signing Varly but he’ll be looking for a starters job too.

    He’s not signing for back up money on July 1

    He’s making $5.9 now and is probably (incorrectly) looking for a raise.

  139. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Woodguy v2.0:

    The fact that EDM Management has “camps” is one of the main reasons that we are here.

    – For me this is virtually the entirety of the reason we are here.

    1) chia gets into playoffs and they get to eviscerate the other camp in off season audit and bring in more smart people

    2) they don’t get into playoffs and they punt Chia and the other camp consolidates power and they get a supplicant gm for window dressing

    3) they get into playoffs and everyone’s job is safe next year

    4) new gm come in and gets free reign and gets to punt the other camp and bring in more smart people

    – Id guess door #3 or #2 but would want 1 or 4.

  140. unca miltie says:

    just looked at the pro-am leaderboard for the desert classic and there at tied for 13th is an S. Souray.

    Canadian Adam Hadwin is 2nd on the pro side..

  141. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

    JP also bumps McDavid
    Not all the rest of your comparisons do that….

  142. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – For me this is virtually the entirety of the reason we are here.

    1) chia gets into playoffs and they get to eviscerate the other camp in off season audit and bring in more smart people

    2) they don’t get into playoffs and they punt Chia and the other camp consolidates power and they get a supplicant gm for window dressing

    3) they get into playoffs and everyone’s job is safe next year

    4) new gm come in and gets free reign and gets to punt the other camp and bring in more smart people

    – Id guess door #3 or #2 but would want 1 or 4.

    My understanding is a weak 1st round exit results in Pete being out.

    I also do not think that *any* new GM/POHO gets to punt any of the Vice Presidents.

    Whether the new GM/POHO listens to the VPs is up to them.

    There will be camps.

  143. jp says:

    Revolved,

    1) wow Khaira
    2) wow Kassian
    3) did Nuge really outscore McDavid in their time together? Really?

  144. Revolved says:

    I’m so pleased I’m not the only one who loves the data.
    So here’s for the production and on ice numbers with Draisaitl.
    I am shocked, and take back my recommendation of Reider and Chiasson as wingers.
    Why does Kassian mostly play with Brodziak?
    Please send Yamamoto to Bakersfield for the next two seasons.
    Resign Rattie and play him.

    2016/17 – 2018/19 5×5 with Draisaitl via NST
    Player TOI Goals/60 PrimaryPoints/60
    Zack Kassian 149.6 1.2 2.4
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 209.5 1.43 2.29
    Ty Rattie 107.1 1.68 2.24
    Connor McDavid 1631.2 0.92 1.95
    Jujhar Khaira 192 0.62 1.56
    Jesse Puljujarvi 275.6 1.09 1.53
    Milan Lucic 575.7 0.83 1.46
    Kailer Yamamoto 55.3 1.09 1.09
    Alex Chiasson 347.9 0.34 1.03
    Tobias Rieder 173.6 0.35 0.35

    Player OnIceGoalsFor/60 OnIceGoalsAgainst/60 GF%
    Alex Chiasson 2.76 1.38 66.67
    Connor McDavid 3.75 2.61 58.96
    Zack Kassian 4.81 4.01 54.55
    Jujhar Khaira 3.12 2.81 52.63
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2.86 2.86 50
    Tobias Rieder 1.73 2.07 45.45
    Jesse Puljujarvi 2.18 2.61 45.45
    Milan Lucic 2.29 3.65 38.6
    Ty Rattie 2.8 5.6 33.33
    Kailer Yamamoto 1.09 5.43 16.67

    How about:
    Khaira – McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Lucic – RNH – Rattie
    Chiasson – Draisaitl – Kassian

    Oh yeah, and did I mention a fourth line that doesn’t give back everything McDavid produces?

  145. dessert1111 says:

    Didn’t realize the Isles werr first in their division. They have a bit of a gap between them and ninth place too.

    Unlikely they’ll drop back that far but they have been getting unreal goaltending lately.

    In any event though I can’t see Chiarelli trading to rent Eberle and re-surfacing how bad of a trade that was when he seems so close to being fired.

  146. jp says:

    Woogie63:
    +50 games with their current clubs AHL team – groomed through the teams system.

    Oilers 3
    Khaira
    Puljujarvi
    Jones

    Flames 8
    Giordano
    Brodie
    Andersson
    Klingon
    Maniapane
    Jankowski
    Hathaway
    Backlund

    Winnipeg has 10 players on the current roster with 50 or more games with the Moose- I think that is the best in the league

    +Klefbom
    +Rattie
    FWIW

  147. theDjdj says:

    I don’t think having differences of opinion in an organisation is inherently negative. However I do worry leave-overs from managements past are inhibiting the GM’s ability to function. Like staying friends with your ex-girlfriend.

  148. jp says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I’d bet a reasonable amount that they re-sign Koskinen

    +1

  149. Biggus Dickus says:

    Woodguy v2.0: He might be the player we think we was going to be.

    He might be 24 or so when that happens.

    Lots of smoke coming our of the org (most of it via Friedman) that a significant portion of the management group is in the “keep JP and let him grow up” camp.

    The fact that EDM Management has “camps” is one of the main reasons that we are here.

    Camps is a step forward, no?

  150. OriginalPouzar says:

    Joel Persson with two 3rd period assists today – he continues to produce and provide optimism.

  151. Revolved says:

    JP,

    16/17-18/19 5×5 Nugent-Hopkins with McDavid for 491:48
    Player Goals PrimaryAssists SecondaryAssists Points
    Nugent-Hopkins 10 9 8 27
    McDavid 7 9 3 19

    Crazy… Above I only showed primary points

  152. theDjdj says:

    theDjdj:
    I don’t think having differences of opinion in an organisation is inherently negative. However I do worry leave-overs from managements past are inhibiting the GM’s ability to function. Like staying friends with your ex-girlfriend.

    And living with her in the same house as your wife

  153. Munny says:

    HNIC opens with the ultimate gritensity montage.

    It was quite enjoyable, lol.

  154. OriginalPouzar says:

    tileguy:
    Did everybody forget how Eberle plays in the playoffs?

    I in no way agree that one playoff year defines the player or his ability to play in the playoffs.

  155. jp says:

    Woodguy v2.0: *looks at EDM scoring without 97*

    *looks at Spooner as a buyout candidate*

    Did you forget his 201 goals in his 631 NHL games and just focus on 14 games?

    39th most prolific scorer in the last 6 years, but fuck that guy because of 14 games.

    It’s funny cause Spooner is a buyout candidate (at half the salary) based on his last 40 or so games.

  156. jp says:

    Revolved:
    JP,

    16/17-18/19 5×5 Nugent-Hopkins with McDavid for 491:48
    Player Goals PrimaryAssists SecondaryAssists Points
    Nugent-Hopkins 109827
    McDavid 79319

    Crazy… Above I only showed primary points

    That is crazy. Thanks.

  157. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pescador: I wonder how much backup money Talbot would accept, $2m × 2.
    Is he really going to land substantial FA dollars on th open market.
    Koskiinen for $4.5, or is that low balling?
    Essentially swap their contracts, and shore up the D by finding a better 2RD than Russell

    I think Talbot will probably get more than we think and probably more than his play the last season and a half warrants – something like 2 X $3M.

    Absolutely not, $4.5M is not low-balling – that is an over pay. Don’t get me wrong, Mikko has exceeded all reasonable expectations and is a main reason this team has been able to hang on but he’s been inconsistent, he hit a wall already (as some had been concerned about) and we are still looking at a less than 30 game sample size for a 30 years old.

  158. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: Question.If edm re-signed Talbot would they have to qualify at a minimum of his current deal AAV?

    No – that only applies to RFAs.

  159. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I think you quoted the wrong post Joe.

    Agreed.

    During EDM’s 13-4-1 run from March 1-April 15 2017 he was 3rd on the team in 5v5 pts/60

    But fuck that guy because of 14 games.

    and, for some, its “fuck that guy because of one play”.

  160. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    tileguy:
    Did everybody forget how Eberle plays in the playoffs?

    Nope. Don’t want to see him back.

  161. Woogie63 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Cool data, thanks!

    Did you look at ANA and TBY?

    They currently have very good draft and develop reputations.

    Lightning have 7 graduates with +50 games on the farm
    and Vasilevskiy played 49 games on their farm team

    Ducks have 7 graduates with +50 games on the farm
    And in the spirit of the conversation (and the number of injures they have had this year)
    Jones 32 games
    Kase 40 games
    Ritchie 38 Games
    Terry 32 games
    Lindholm 44 games
    Mason 45 games

  162. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: It’s funny cause Spooner is a buyout candidate (at half the salary) based on his last 40 or so games.

    If they continue to deploy Spooner as they have in the last 15 games and then buy him out, this fan will not be happy. He has a year after year after year history of providing exactly what this team needs – secondary scoring as a complementary player on a line. He is not being provided the opportunity to regain his form from previous years.

  163. Woogie63 says:

    jp,

    Thanks , you are correct!

    I was focusing on tonight’s line up for those numbers

  164. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Woodguy v2.0: *looks at EDM scoring without 97*

    *looks at Spooner as a buyout candidate*

    Did you forget his 201 goals in his 631 NHL games and just focus on 14 games?

    39th most prolific scorer in the last 6 years, but fuck that guy because of 14 games.

    When the team wanders in the desert for your entire career up to that point, then they finally make it out of the desert to find the oasis, and you COMPLETELY shit the bed once you are there, then yes … fuck that guy.

  165. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sens with an early 1-0 lead on the Blues.

    A Blues regulation loss and an Oilers win would put 6 points between us and them – of course, the opposite pulls them to within 2…..

  166. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woogie63: Lightning have 7 graduates with +50 games on the farm
    and Vasilevskiy played 49 games on their farm team

    Ducks have 7 graduates with +50 games on the farm
    And in the spirit of the conversation (and the number of injures they have had this year)
    Jones 32 games
    Kase 40 games
    Ritchie 38 Games
    Terry 32 games
    Lindholm 44 games
    Mason 45 games

    Comparing deep established successful teams with struggling teams will lead to false positives.

    When winning is all that counts, the pressure bends things.l usually.

    There is a reason there is only a few ‘well run’ teams.

  167. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: If they continue to deploy Spooner as they have in the last 15 games and then buy him out, this fan will not be happy. He has a year after year after year history of providing exactly what this team needs – secondary scoring as a complementary player on a line. He is not being provided the opportunity to regain his form from previous years.

    He is another Chia mistake. Definitely deserves a buyout. He should be able to piss a drop offensive against the softs. Can’t even do that. Some guys just crash and burn out of the league very early

  168. maudite says:

    I think the more important stats with mcjebus are what others do to his goal differential numbers.

    frjohnk:
    I know a lot of people say that JP has scored well with McDavid and the numbers show this

    From 16-17 to now, JP has scored 14 of his 31 ( 5 on 5) points when playing with McDavid.This was done in 391 minutes.In the 1129 minutes away from McDavid, JP has scored 17 points.It looks like this

    Pts/60 1.22
    Pts/60 With McDavid 2.15
    Pts/60 Without McDavid 0.9

    So play JP with McDavid then right?

    Well, JP is not the only player that McDavid bumps up from AHL/4th line scoring when without McDavid to 2nd line or better scoring when placed along side McDavid

    Just this year,
    Ty Rattie goes from 0.4 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.18 with McDavid
    Drake went from 0.82 pts/60 without McDavid to 2.55 with McDavid
    Kassian goes from 0.83 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.76 with McDavid
    Lucic goes from 0.8 pts/60 without McDavid to 1.46 with McDavid

    Heck Drai goes from 1.75pts/60 without McDavid to 3.03 with McDavid

    And if we go back to years prior, we see bumps in scoring when
    Eberle in both years combined went from 1.48 without McDavid to 2.48 pts/60 with McDavid
    Yak went from 0.8 to 2.64 pts/60
    Pouliot went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.88 pts/60
    Maroon went from 1.44 pts/60 to 2.16 pts/60

    Well, you get the point.

    A lot of players seem to be able to play with McDavid and score well.Or is it that, many of these players are just along for the ride and because OF McDavid, get the points.McDavid just generates so much offense that anybody that plays with him will enjoy those fruits.

    Heck, I bet if I played the wing on McDavids line I would go from 1.15 pts/60 in Rec Hockey to 0.8 pts/60 in the NHL.Im not joking.

    I would love to see the internal numbers the Oilers have for who is generating what in regards to driving the play.I would suspect that both coaches are not seeing ( and have the numbers to back it up) JP do well in creating offense and keeping plays alive when playing with McDavid.

  169. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’m not sure that Klef is a great comparison – totally different type of player, in particular with Klef being a plus skater.With that said, if he can have Klef’s impact then, yes, I’ll take that for sure.

    As an aside, there is an example of the the Oilers drafting a developing a player – they took their time with Klef as a mid-late first round pick, developed him properly in to a top pairing d-man – nope, not an elite top pairing guy but a top-pairing guy.

    For Penner to boot.

  170. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: and you know who doesn’t get any bump playing with McDavid (and actually scores at lower rates)?Alex Chiasson. McDavid also scores at lower rates with Alex Chiasson.

    You know is one of the few players with positive goal share away from McDavid?Alex Chiasson.

    Who does our coach insist on playing with McDavid?Alex Chiasson.

    I hate it.

    Agreed. Makes no sense.

  171. OriginalPouzar says:

    Tarasenko ties it up – he’s getting hot.

    Stars also up 1-0 on the Jets early.

  172. tileguy says:

    Woodguy v2.0: *looks at EDM scoring without 97*

    *looks at Spooner as a buyout candidate*

    Did you forget his 201 goals in his 631 NHL games and just focus on 14 games?

    39th most prolific scorer in the last 6 years, but fuck that guy because of 14 games.

    When the going gets tough”……….

  173. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ryan McLeod with a first period assist on a Coskey goal – Saginaw up 3-0 early.

  174. Woogie63 says:

    Woogie63: Lightning have 7 graduates with +50 games on the farm
    and Vasilevskiy played 49 games on their farm team

    Ducks have 7 graduates with +50 games on the farm
    And in the spirit of the conversation (and the number of injures they have had this year)
    Jones 32 games
    Kase 40 games
    Ritchie 38 Games
    Terry 32 games
    Lindholm 44 games
    Mason 45 games

    JP pointes out correctly
    The Oilers should get credit for Klefbom and Rattie playing + 50 games with our farm team – I was focusing on tonight’s line up

  175. Glovjuice says:

    Pescador: PC will trade the 2 that he should keep, that much is a given

    Poetry – poetry of the incomparable incompetence.

  176. tileguy says:

    OriginalPouzar: I in no way agree that one playoff year defines the player or his ability to play in the playoffs.

    Hang on fellas, I gotta tie my skate lace Eberle. Lol, he put an exclamation mark on his definition for those 14 games. Let’s have no more talk about Ebs joining the team.

  177. Glovjuice says:

    Revolved:
    Sorry for the data bombs.
    I haven’t shown any data for Draisaitl.
    I haven’t removed time with McDavid from RNH’s data, which pushes up Rattie’s numbers in particular.
    But, we have workable wingers for our centres:

    Khaira – McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Lucic – RNH – Rattie/Kassian
    Rieder – Draisaitl – Chiasson

    Now if only Pettie could find a fourth line that didn’t get caved.

    This is the best I’ve seen, just add currie, Benson, Morody as the fourth and cooking with gas. Guaranteed. Will it happen, nope.

  178. Scungilli Slushy says:

    As to JP:

    In the Taylor vs Tyler race, which started at their draft, Tyler is winning. More GP, more points.

    Tyler was on a better team for a long time, but now makes his mid grade team stronger.

    The debate at draft was draft + 5. Tyler is winning now, as many thought.

    JP vs Dubois vs Laine- this tale is only part way through. It’s worth developing players of quality that have the tool kit you want, even if it turns out different than expected.

    Pro sports well managed is a long game. Unfortunately for fans.

  179. HT Joe says:

    tileguy: Let’s have no more talk about Ebs joining the team.

    I don’t think he’ll ever end up here. The Oilers bringing him back as a rental is admission of a mistake. And Ebs’ comments about being an Oiler near the end make it clear he doesn’t want to come back to the fishbowl.

  180. tileguy says:

    HT Joe: I don’t think he’ll ever end up here.The Oilers bringing him back as a rental is admission of a mistake.And Ebs’ comments about being an Oiler near the end make it clear he doesn’t want to come back to the fishbowl.

    Wait, what, they made a mstake, not by getting rid of this player and saving some cap space. Perhaps the mistake was not getting a little more for him as some held him in great esteem?

  181. HT Joe says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Tyler was on a better team for a long time, but now makes his mid grade team stronger.

    The debate at draft was draft + 5. Tyler is winning now, as many thought.

    Before the draft, I was talking with a buddy, and we agreed that whoever was drafted by the Oilers (Tyler or Taylor), the other player would turn out better. Something something drafting, surrounding with skill, supporting, etc.

    Tyler got to play 40+ playoff games in his first season, on a winning franchise… that’s valuable positive experience. Tyler was also given every opportunity to be surrounded by consummate professionals who could teach him good habits. Meanwhile, Taylor had more stress piled on him, as he was expected to drive the team towards legitimacy. I don’t think Tyler would have had more points than Taylor at this point if he had been drafted by the Oilers.

    For the record, if the Oilers had drafted Seguin, and Boston had drafted Hall, I believe Boston would have won the 2013 Stanley Cup too (series was 4-2 in favour of Chicago, but 3 games went to OT… unbelievably close.

  182. frjohnk says:

    I know most (and I’m in this boat as well) are not too thrilled about the Manning pickup. (For me, it’s because of the cap hit. )

    But would like to see him to have a good game.

    Manning would sure win over some Oiler fans if he cranks Tkachuk and knocks him on his ass. And do this without taking a penalty.

  183. OriginalPouzar says:

    Rask helped off the ice after being run in to.

    There is your Talbot trade – only return required is the cap space in order to acquire a winger on an expiring contract (that trade must wait until closer to deadline to ensure this team should even make a small/medium rental).

    Massive risk, of course, but only 1 goalie can play at a time.

    This is somewhat tounge in cheek.

  184. HT Joe says:

    tileguy: Wait, what, they made a mstake, not by getting rid of this player and saving some cap space. Perhaps the mistake was not getting a little more for him as some held him in great esteem?

    Hang on… that’s not what I said. I said that if the Oilers brought Eberle back, it would be admission of a mistake. That’s a completely neutral comment in terms of “should we have kept him or not?”.

    *EDIT FOR CLARITY, HOPEFULLY* I’m saying the egos of the Oilers executives would prohibit them from bringing back Eberle, whether or not bringing back Eberle would be a good move.

  185. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    frjohnk,

    I’d be fine with killing that penalty.

  186. Lowetide says:

    Re: Spooner. I’m a fan but he hasn’t pissed a drop.

  187. ArmchairGM says:

    Gerta Rauss: and then they sign a 1B type goalie

    Copley

  188. OriginalPouzar says:

    Stars up 2-0 on the Jets and the Blues and Sens still tied at 1.

    Last night was a great night out of town but today/tonight is shaping up a little different.

    I believe the Oil “need” 4 points in the next 3 games but would sure love to start off with two tonight to keep pace with some of the others in the same tier of suck!

  189. rope-a-dope says:

    I’m adopting the TB lightning as my second team. Man these guys are good to watch.

  190. OriginalPouzar says:

    Stars are now up 3-0 – looks like they may pull 3 points ahead for the 1st wild card but the Oil will have two games in hand going in to their game tonight.

  191. OriginalPouzar says:

    and the Blues take the lead on the Sens with a few minutes left in the 2nd period.

  192. Scungilli Slushy says:

    HT Joe: Before the draft, I was talking with a buddy, and we agreed that whoever was drafted by the Oilers (Tyler or Taylor), the other player would turn out better.Something something drafting, surrounding with skill, supporting, etc.

    Tyler got to play 40+ playoff games in his first season, on a winning franchise… that’s valuable positive experience.Tyler was also given every opportunity to be surrounded by consummate professionals who could teach him good habits.Meanwhile, Taylor had more stress piled on him, as he was expected to drive the team towardslegitimacy.I don’t think Tyler would have had more points than Taylor at this point if he had been drafted by the Oilers.

    For the record, if the Oilers had drafted Seguin, and Boston had drafted Hall, I believe Boston would have won the 2013 Stanley Cup too (series was 4-2 in favour of Chicago, but 3 games went to OT… unbelievably close.

    Who knows , one thing to consider is that Taylor had top line best of what the Oilers has the whole time, Tyler ended up getting JPd on the 4 th line in Boston.

    Both are on similar teams now. Players of that ilk are supposed to drive their team. Tyler has more support now arguably, but the point remains that 5+ out things change and to me if I had to pick of the three I mentioned I’d bet on JP being a player that drives his team forward more.

    He’ll not be a highlight scorer like Laine but will impact the game more if they are patient with him. Outscoring vs points total.

    Elite scoring is really important, the Oilers have that in other players, it’s after that where cups are won, which is where I see players like JP being material to.

  193. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: He is another Chia mistake.Definitely deserves a buyout.He should be able to piss a drop offensive against the softs.Can’t even do that.Some guys just crash and burn out of the league very early

    I would say more 26 year olds with years of established 2nd line production rebound after a poor half season/season than burn out of the league at that age.

    He should not be bought out, in my opinion, and I don’t know how the fanbase of an organization that has a primary need of wingers that can provide secondary scoring as complimentary players with higher end players would want to buy out a player with a history of doing just that.

    Give the player a chance to do what he’s made a career out of before.

  194. OriginalPouzar says:

    Glovjuice: This is the best I’ve seen, just add currie, Benson, Morody as the fourth and cooking with gas. Guaranteed. Will it happen, nope.

    Factious?

  195. Ben says:

    Well thanks for nuthin, out of town scoreboard.

    Flames are scoring in buckets, Oilers can’t defend. Unless Koskiwin focuses his chi I’m afraid it might be a long night, just me, my buffering Sportsnet app and this bottle of Tomatin. Slàinte, all.

  196. tileguy says:

    Ben:
    Well thanks for nuthin, out of town scoreboard.

    Flames are scoring in buckets, Oilers can’t defend. Unless Koskiwin focuses his chi I’m afraid it might be a long night, just me, my buffering Sportsnet app and this bottle of Tomatin. Slàinte, all.

    Lets not give up on the Jets just yet?

  197. Ben says:

    tileguy,

    Or the Sens, apparently.

  198. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide:
    Re: Spooner. I’m a fan but he hasn’t pissed a drop.

    The epitaph of many a valiant former Oiler.

    Lander
    Strome
    Deharnais
    Etc,

  199. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jets have scored 2 in the 3rd to make it a one-goal game with over 10 min to go.

    Sens tied it up with Dallas with 10 to go.

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