Sky Pilot

The NHL Edmonton Oilers have charged six men with the job of general manager, Keith Gretzky is No. 7. The leader in all important categories is Glen Sather (1980-2000), with Kevin Lowe the only other GM to take the club to the Stanley Cup finals. Larry Gordon (1978-1980) and Peter Chiarelli got the club to a playoff spring (one each), while Steve Tambellini and Craig MacTavish are on the outside looking in. The current Oilers should be due for a decade plus run from the next guy. Is it Keith Gretzky?

CHIARELLI-GRETZKY FREE AGENTS

  • 2017: Ty Rattie, Jussi Jokinen, Yohann Auvitu
  • 2018: Tobias Rieder, Kyle Brodziak, Kevin Gravel, Mikko Koskinen, Jakub Jerabek, Alex Chiasson.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton brought it yesterday, there’s a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group. Outstanding offer is here.

  • New Tyler Dellow: Four questions that the Oilers should be asking candidates for the GM job
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: New Oilers caretaker Keith Gretzky caught between earning playoff berth and keeping future assets
  • New Lowetide: Bob Nicholson’s press conference attempts to set the tone for Oilers moving forward.
  • New Craig Custance: How desirable is the Oilers GM opening and what questions are prospective candidates asking?
  • New Jonathan Willis: With Peter Chiarelli gone, this is what the Oilers need to do next
  • New Pierre Lebrun: Possible candidates to replace Peter Chiarelli as Oilers GM
  • New Lowetide: Peter Chiarelli’s inability adjust, poor trades and free-agent misses at the centre of his firing.
  • New Jonathan Willis: Rushed Mikko Koskinen deal was one Peter Chiarelli should not have been allowed to make.
  • New Tyler Dellow: What can the NHL’s last three turtle derbies tell us about the playoff race in the West?
  • Lowetide: Oilers sign Mikko Koskinen long term, signalling the end of the line for Cam Talbot in Edmonton.
  • Lowetide: The Oilers’ way forward and the smartest route to finding an impact winger this summer.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Goalless Tobias Rieder hopes to follow Zack Kassian and Milan Lucic and end his offensive funk.
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects, Winter 2018

KEITH GRETZKY

The Edmonton Oilers hired Keith Gretzky on August 2, 2016. In the year+ Peter Chiarelli worked for the Oilers without Gretzky, his major moves were trading for Cam Talbot, Griffin Reinhart, Adam Larsson, plus signing Andrej Sekera and Milan Lucic. By the time Gretzky arrived (the 2017 and 2018 drafts had his imprint) things had calmed down in free agency and most of the big trades were done. It’s impossible to know how much influence he exerted but the club did hold on to most of its draft picks.

2017 OILERS DRAFT

  • The first Gretzky-Green draft brought undersized skill winger Kailer Yamamoto (now 20) to the team. He’s played in 26 NHL games (1-4-5) and was sent back to Bakersfield on Wednesday. He’s 11, 4-4-8 in the AHL and that’s a good spot for him until he dominates. Of course, chances are he gets recalled after the AS break.
  • Stuart Skinner is also in the AHL, he has played mostly in the ECHL this year.
  • Dmitri Samorukov, Kirill Maksimov and Philip Kemp are tracking well, and Safin would likely be doing the same if he were healthy.
  • It’s a good list, no reaches early.

2018 OILERS DRAFT

  • This draft badly needs to cash at least two players in my opinion. Edmonton drafted top 10, then top 40 and then a third time just outside the top 60.
  • Evan Bouchard began the season in the NHL (7, 1-0-1) and is back dominating the OHL (20, 7-19-26) as he did one year ago. Bouchard may benefit from the Oilers new plan (stated by Bob Nicholson yesterday and in place with the Condors this season) to bring these kids along more slowly.
  • Ryan McLeod’s offense has increased slightly, but I think we’re looking at a third-line center if he progresses to NHL level.
  • Olivier Rodrigue ranks No. 11 in QMJHL save percentage (.902) and looks like a solid prospect.

COMPLETE NHLE (FORWARDS)

  1. Cooper Marody 42.5
  2. Kirill Maksimov 38.8
  3. Joe Gambardella 35.0
  4. Tyler Benson 33.9
  5. Ryan McLeod 30.6
  6. Kailer Yamamoto 29.0
  7. Patrick Russell 28.3
  8. Josh Currie 27.9
  9. Brad Malone 24.5
  10. Cam Hebig 21.9
  11. Ostap Safin 21.0
  12. Mitch Callahan 14.5
  13. Tyler Vesel 12.5
  14. Skyler Brind’Amour 8.8
  15. Graham McPhee 7.7
  16. Aapeli Rasanen 6.8
  17. Nolan Vesey 6.6
  18. Colin Larkin 6.3
  19. Joey Dudek 4.6
  • This is the entire group save Patrik Siikanen (I don’t have an NHLE for him but the young man is playing well).
  • My personal opinion is Yamamoto, Benson and Marody are the best bets for future NHL work. Benson and McLeod may have more ways to make it (skill line and as checkers) but that’s a guess.
  • Maksimov is promising but we’ll have to see how things shake out once he turns pro.
  • Joe Gambardella is a fascinating prospect but he’s an older player. His pro career may be spent in the Alps.

COMPLETE NHLE (DEFENSE)

  1. Evan Bouchard 34.4
  2. Joel Persson 30.2
  3. Caleb Jones 23.5
  4. Ethan Bear 21.6
  5. Dmitri Samorukov 15.7
  6. Filip Berglund 12.9
  7. Ryan Stanton 12.6
  8. Keegan Lowe 12.3
  9. William Lagesson 11.2
  10. Vincent Desharnais 9.4
  11. Mike Kesselring 8.7
  12. Phil Kemp 7.7
  13. Robin Norel 7.4
  14. John Marino 4.7
  15. Matthew Cairns 4.6
  16. Markus Niemelainen 3.4
  • I think the top four names here are the ones to focus on (divide by two and then two again) and have to say Caleb Jones recent NHL performance was an eye opener.
  • I can’t wait for the Bouchard-Persson contest in training camp this fall, wonder if Ethan Bear can get into that race. He’s having a helluva run currently. The new slow-play plan might benefit Bear.

KEITH GRETZKY

Keith Gretzky joined the Boston Bruins as a scout during the 2011-12 season, and moved up to scouting director after the 2013 draft. The Bruins 2014 entry draft (David Pastrnak, Ryan Donato, Danton Heinen, Anders Bjork, Emil Johansson) is one we’ll probably be talking about for years. In 2015 the club made some big trades (Milan Lucic, Dougie Hamilton) and drafted three times in the first round and three more times in Round Two. Gretzky’s Bruins passed on Mathew Barzal, Kyle Connor, Brock Boeser and others, and that’s a major miss.

Early hits like Jake DeBrusk and Brandon Carlo suggest Gretzky and his crew did in fact get some value from the picks. We’ll see about Jakub Zboril, Zach Senyshyn, Jakob Forsbacka-Karlsson and others down the line.

The 2016 draft saw Boston pick Charlie McAvoy over Dante Fabbro and at the time it seemed like a big deal. It was, but the Bruins appear to have done well. The rest of that draft is still matriculating but there are some good signs from Trent Frederic, who was a controversial selection at the time.

Lots of talent here already in the NHL (Pastrnak, McAvoy, Heinen, Donato, DeBrusk, Carlo) and plenty more on the way.

READ THIS

Read this.

BAKERSFIELD IN JANUARY

I don’t know why, but it seems prospects who spend the season in the AHL either spike or dive in January. I had a scout tell me the difference has to do with usage (a coach begins to trust more) and the game slowing down for the player. It’s always been a curio for me and this year is fascinating. Here are the Condors main prospects and their performances since January 1.

  1. Joe Gambardella 5, 5-3-8 (1.60)
  2. Tyler Benson 11, 1-12-13 (1.18)
  3. Cooper Marody 11, 3-10-13 (1.18)
  4. Ethan Bear 11, 2-8-10 (0.91)
  5. Logan Day 11, 1-8-9 (0.82)
  6. Patrick Russell 9, 3-3-6 (0.67)
  7. Tyler Vesel 9, 1-1-2 (0.22)
  8. William Lagesson 11, 0-2-2 (0.18)
  9. Cameron Hebig 11, 0-1-1 (0.09)
  • Some solid numbers there, your recall at the trade deadline probably populate the top four names on this list. Maybe Russell and Lagesson will get recalls as well. Jones (1, 1-0-1 in January) is a lock for recall if the team sells at the deadline.
  • Tyler Benson is supposed to spend the season in the AHL, but if you look at the LW depth chart it’ll be tough to keep him down on the farm if he continues to post offense. I’m looking forward to seeing him at the big league level, suspect that day will arrive sooner than later.

We’ll get a good idea about what Bob Nicholson is thinking once we see reporting on names actually getting interviews. I have no personal favourite but would like to see curious minds and individuals who embrace analytics as a tool across multiple areas (on ice: exit and entries; off ice: Draft and procurement).

ASSETS OUT

Nicholson’s avail made it sound like no young players are leaving but we can use the brains God gave us and make an educated guess. Edmonton has just one area (really) with enough depth to trade and that’s on defense. Matt Benning, Ethan Bear, any number of the 5-6-7D on the NHL roster, and perhaps a ‘futures’ player like Phil Kemp would have value. The draft picks are also in play (not the first-round pick, apparently, but never say never) and I do think a lot of teams might ask after Jujhar Khaira.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning after a crazy day, we’re bringing fabulous guests. At 10, TSN1260:

  • Frank Seravalli, TSN. Frank was on fire yesterday bringing the righteous truth on Peter Chiarelli, we’ll catch some of the heat this morning.
  • Jon Campbell, OddsShark.com. Super Bowl odds, Hart trophy winner and more.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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210 Responses to "Sky Pilot"

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  1. smellyglove says:

    Have you seen this article by Travis Yost? Scathing, absolutely scathing. And written after Chia was fired.

    https://www.tsn.ca/koskinen-contract-the-latest-perplexing-decision-in-edmonton-1.1246179

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    I wonder if we see this for Friday’s game:

    Benson/Marody/Currie
    Russell/Malone/Joe G.
    Spooner/Hebig/Yamamoto
    Vesel/Polei/Callahan

    Gust and Polei can switch for game 2 on Sat and same with Callahan and Esposito?

    I really like those lines and I’m not worried about Yamamoto on the “third line” – Jay W. generally rolls his lines at evens and that top/kid line is hot as hell right now and the “experience line” has nice chemistry. Those are two offensive minded players for Kailer.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    Yes, I agree that Ryan McLeod looks like he may develop in to a 3rd line center and if he develop in to a truly effective 3rd line center with plus PK and the ability to move up the lineup, that is great value for a 2nd round pick.

    With his size and speed, I think he has that type of ability if he develops as hoped.

    I would think he signs a contract in the coming months.

    He should NOT be an NHL option for October next year – yes, he had a nice training camp last year but, as we know, training camp and exhibition games essentially mean nothing with respect to NHL readiness.

    I’m sure he will have a great camp next year and produce in the exhibition games – that will not mean he’s NHL ready.

    Really is too bad that we weren’t able to get him under contract during the 2018 calendar year so his ELC would be subject to slide next year.

    As Godot says, his agent read the CBA.

    At the end of the day, not having his contract slide next year could be a good thing – making his second contract cheaper (but earlier).

    Nice prospect, decent arrows – calm your tits on his timeline.

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    Olivier Rodrigue was named CHL goalie of the week a few days ago with 2 solid performances (1.00 GAA and his Save Percentage was around .960).

    Look forward to him at the World Juniors next year.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bear has settled in after a rocky start (late assignment to Bakersfield, injury issues).

    His goal last night was a snipe.

    I worry about his skating and ability to retrieve the puck but we’ll see.

    ———————————-

    Very curious to see what type of contract Joel Persson will sign for next season – ELC restrictions are gone. I assume he will demand a one-way – none of us should care about that. I anticipate it may be close to $2M based off of the performance bonus structure of his existing ELC (he negotiated performance bonuses even though it was agreed he would play in Sweden – why?).

    Will Persson head to the AHL if he isn’t on the NHL team?

    Will Berglund come over for camp? From accounts, NHL is his goal but, as LT has stated in the past, it is going to be crowded in Bakersfield next season.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m also excited for Samorukov to join the pro ranks. He played well in his short sting in the Bake last season and he’s having a very nice draft plus 2 season – very strong defender with puck moving and offensive upside which we are seeing now that Merkley was traded away by Guelph.

  7. flyfish1168 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I wonder if we see this for Friday’s game:

    Benson/Marody/Currie
    Russell/Malone/Joe G.
    Spooner/Hebig/Yamamoto
    Vesel/Polei/Callahan

    Gust and Polei can switch for game 2 on Sat and same with Callahan and Esposito?

    I really like those lines and I’m not worried about Yamamoto on the “third line” – Jay W. generally rolls his lines at evens and that top/kid line is hot as hell right now and the “experience line” has nice chemistry. Those are two offensive minded players for Kailer.

    Sure wish JP is down here to play some real games. Maybe he will be seen at a community rink again with the kids having fun

  8. jtblack says:

    FUTURE RHD

    LARSSSON
    PERSSON
    BOUCHARD
    PETROVIC

    FUTURE LHD

    KLEFBOM
    NURSE
    JONES
    XXXXX

    Seems like quality mix of skills with good age and potential to be Cup Worthy.

  9. northof51 says:

    Made the mistake of reading the PHWA midseason award winners… Akin to being stabbed with a spoon, McDavid will yet again be passed up for the Hart. Here’s hoping his colleagues will have the sense to award him a third consecutive Lindsay.

  10. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I wonder if we see this for Friday’s game:

    Benson/Marody/Currie
    Russell/Malone/Joe G.
    Spooner/Hebig/Yamamoto
    Vesel/Polei/Callahan

    Gust and Polei can switch for game 2 on Sat and same with Callahan and Esposito?

    I really like those lines and I’m not worried about Yamamoto on the “third line” – Jay W. generally rolls his lines at evens and that top/kid line is hot as hell right now and the “experience line” has nice chemistry. Those are two offensive minded players for Kailer.

    I finally took the plunge and watched a Condors game last night. I know exactly what you mean about Bear’s skating, but I think his work rate might make up for that, I still think he’s a material prospect. Depending how the Oilers season is going (i.e. if we’re out of the playoff race before the end of the season), I’d love to see him get another look in the NHL to see if he’s came on from last year.

    Condors up to 16th in the league overall and 11th on win percentage – that’s not too shabby!

    If Spooner can get going down in the AHL I’m more than happy for him to be given another chance with the Oilers. A lot can be said for moving team and getting yourself going, look at Strome, it took him about half a season to really start rounding into form. Spooner can’t have completely forgotten how to play in the last 2 years, surely this is just a matter of getting him some confidence back?

  11. frjohnk says:

    Im not sure how the Oilers will dump alot of the players that take up a bigger cap hit than what their actual value is AND then fill in the roster spots of 4,5,6,7 in the forward ranks correctly.

    Oilers will need to use some assets ( picks, maybe some of the b level prospects, salary retainment) to get rid of the dead weight.

    Also I wonder if the David Perron part 1 trade is a template the Oilers could follow this summer in regards to using JP and a 2nd rounder for a player that is established but plays on a team that is in a salary crunch.

  12. Professor Q says:

    Any worry about Puljujärvi not also getting time in Bakersfield with the others? A case of too many spots and him maybe needing rest?

    Just think it’d be nice for him to have top line minutes during the break.

  13. Oddspell says:

    Darth Tu: If Spooner can get going down in the AHL I’m more than happy for him to be given another chance with the Oilers.

    If Spooner can get himself going, and become a 13 goal-ish player in the NHL again, then that’s already makes the next GMs job easier.

  14. PennersPancakes says:

    Could Bakersfield have a legitimate prospect based D next year? Obviously having veterans has its benefits and things can change but this d core, all players has a shot at legitimate NHL futures:

    Jones – Bear
    Lagesson – Bouchard
    Samorukov – Persson

    This of course is barring any trades/injuries/call ups. When was the last time the Oilers had the AHL stocked up like this?

  15. itsaleaf says:

    jtblack,

    Doubt petrovic is retained. He’s been poor and frankly he’s too damn slow for today’s NHL.

  16. Coiler says:

    Anyone who follows Elliott Friedman’s podcast ’31 Thoughts’ should take a gander at his latest one where he dissects the fallout of the Oiler’s mess. It’s an interesting listen and one point, when asked about who the new GM should be, mentioned that he didn’t necessarily say they should hire him BUT mentioned that the new GM/club needed to embrace analytics and that they should consider bringing back a blast from the past; Tyler Dellow.
    I can’t help but think that it might be a sound decision to make. Not as a GM but I think as an assistant GM or Director of Player Personnel.

    Nicholson is like the Mouth of Sauron. A soundbite, a politician, a cardboard cutout. A lot of style, no substance. I don’t believe a word he said in that news conference. I heard him again on the FAN590 in Toronto and he spoke in circles. Ugh.

  17. frjohnk says:

    itsaleaf:
    jtblack,

    Doubt petrovic is retained.He’s been poor and frankly he’s too damn slow for today’s NHL.

    He and Manning have gotten beat by speed quite a few times.

  18. PennersPancakes says:

    Coiler: Nicholson is like the Mouth of Sauron.

    Firing Chia was winning at Minas Tirith. The Oilers need to destroy the ring (OBC) to end it all.

  19. Durag says:

    PennersPancakes: Firing Chia was winning at Minas Tirith. The Oilers need to destroy the ring (OBC) to end it all.

    I’m all for the optimism, but c’mon, firing Chia was victory at Orthanc at best.

  20. Andy Dufresne says:

    Random thought of the day. (I know its stating the obvious)

    Adam Larsson just turned 26 two months ago. He’s not yet reached his prime.

    In a future lineup that includes the likes of Klefbom (25), Nurse (24 in 3 weeks), Persson (24) Jones (21) Bouchard (19)…….Larsson will be our teams veteran presence / anchor on defense at age 28 (perfect timing).

    We really need to create a winning atmosphere / competitive team over the next 2 seasons in order to keep this guy in Edmonton. Because once his current contract expires, he is UFA.

  21. Darth Tu says:

    Durag: I’m all for the optimism, but c’mon, firing Chia was victory at Orthanc at best.

    If we somehow have an army of Ents at our disposal, winning the Cup will not be a problem.

  22. Brantford Boy says:

    Sounds like Dale Hawerchuk isn’t interested in the position from the Twitter link LT provided above…
    Hawerchuk @behindthenet
    23h
    “I am perfectly happy in Barrie. I value my time on the golf course too much to take such a stressful job.”

    Come on down #19… Katz has the dough to get this done… and I agree with the Fridge… bring back Dellow…

  23. Coiler says:

    And another thing…

    Does anyone find it odd in the timing of the firing occurred directly after the Koskinen signing? Not to bring up any conspiracies but if Chia saw the writing on the wall then he might have completed this as a final little F-U to the organization.

    The organization was caught with egg on their face and backpeddled to say that they were all on board with it when anyone in their right mind would never have signed a guy with 30 games in the NHL to that sort of contract.

    Smells fishy.

  24. Durag says:

    Darth Tu: If we somehow have an army of Ents at our disposal, winning the Cup will not be a problem.

    Maybe we can at least swing a deal with Arizona for MacKenzie Entwistle.

  25. YKOil says:

    smellyglove:
    Have you seen this article by Travis Yost? Scathing, absolutely scathing. And written after Chia was fired.

    https://www.tsn.ca/koskinen-contract-the-latest-perplexing-decision-in-edmonton-1.1246179

    It really was shocking how easily Chia accepted risk in his transactions and how poorly Chia future proofed his contracts. Consider:

    YR1 .. 5.2 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 15 NTC
    YR2 .. 3.8 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 0.5 signing .. 15 NTC
    YR3 .. 4.5 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 15 NTC

    versus

    YR1 .. 6.0 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 3.0 signing .. 22 NTC and NMC before Jan 15
    YR2 .. 4.5 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 1.5 signing .. 15 NTC
    YR3 .. 3.0 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 8 NTC

    identical AAV but the second contract gives:

    – the player far more security in pay (more is front loaded) and extra security in year one
    – the team a much smaller risk profile on the contract via greater flexibility in terms of both the NTC and the attractiveness of the contract to prospective trade partners

    The inability of the team to properly calibrate and balance its risk profiles – especially in risky signings like this one – is mind-boggling to me. So much incompetence.

  26. godot10 says:

    smellyglove:
    Have you seen this article by Travis Yost? Scathing, absolutely scathing. And written after Chia was fired.

    https://www.tsn.ca/koskinen-contract-the-latest-perplexing-decision-in-edmonton-1.1246179

    This is a pretty thin analysis. Koskinen has a record outside the NHL too. And Yost totally ignores that data. A competent data scientist would not ignore it and try to make something of it.

  27. jake70 says:

    Coiler:

    Nicholson is like the Mouth of Sauron. A soundbite, a politician, a cardboard cutout. A lot of style, no substance. I don’t believe a word he said in that news conference. I heard him again on the FAN590 in Toronto and he spoke in circles. Ugh.

    I didn’t really have an opinion before yesterday on Nicholson. But I agree with you. He didn’t have a clue what he was saying (which was be design my guess on his part). Character, compete, character, compete….need to get back to playing like when Hitch first started…blah blah blah. Is Chiarelli in the room? Doing the practices? No, so why fire him then if it’s all on the players and/or coach? Total deflection in my opinion on non-Chiarelll hockey ops decision makers (of which HE is one) who assembled this team. It’s not the water Bob…jesus H.

  28. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Pondering what is the best interest long-term for the team in terms of results for rest of year?

    – Ideally, Sek and Klef come back and the team plays a lot better, Koski shows he’s legit starting G over a long period, we get into the playoffs, show well.

    – As a fan, this is what we should all want. But what does a playoff berth and good results mean?

    – I don’t want Hitch back as coach next year. I don’t want the org thinking all they need is a new shiny GM who is way better than Chia and we can fix this bad-boy up in a jiffy

    – I fear that a playoff run might actually not be the best for the org, as it might make them think that its all good: is that crazy talk on my part?

    – Also Nicholson: after he did an exhaustive audit, he brought in Chia and Coach. Katz gives him the benefit of doubt that he will have learned from the past process. He’s got all the same people on board to provide “advice” as before: how is this process going to be different?

  29. elgruntus says:

    The Twitter thread by Hawerchuk was insightful.

    Katz, in any world outside of Gotham, would be considered a super villain, yet here in Mallville, some still see him as a savior. He bought the team with a boatload of promises that seemed to evaporate quicker than Woodguy’s Scotch. He leveraged this city’s love for their team into a nice downtown empire and kept the prize asset as his personal pet.

    Let’s face it. Katz is just a glorified Lowetidian with huge bank. Whereas we offer up our ingenious ideas on how to run this team, he actually gets to put them into practice and hang with our heroes (and then turn them into pariahs) .

    MacT and Lowe had gone to great lengths to include a CHL, undrafted defenceman on the World Championship roster, knowing that they held the top spot in the draft. It was an obvious audition. It was widely speculated that it was Katz, on the draft day floor, that turned Ryan Murray into Nail Yakupov. Nice slap to the scouting staff.

    Lowe, under the Gang of Ownershio Group, was a capable GM. MacT is well respected through the league. They didnt just lose their minds when Batman bought the team. The rot is at the top, with no way to cut the head off the snake.

    This is us.

    *** wasn’t there a competing offer to buy the Oilers when Katz purchased them? I wonder…what if?

  30. jtblack says:

    frjohnk: He and Manning have gotten beat by speed quite a few times.

    Fair enough. Havent watched the last few games.

    but with Bouchard and Persson it looks like edm can finally achieve Balance and have a quality top 6 D. maybe Bear or Benning would be the extra RHD

  31. Tibor says:

    YKOil,

    Isn’t this why we have a Director of Salary Cap Management, to advise on such things?

  32. jake70 says:

    Speakeing of….Nicholson HC@Noon now.

  33. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    Coiler,

    I find it equally odd that people can look at this state of affairs and not be concerned McDavid walks away before this mess can be cleaned up. 8 years turns to 0 rather quickly when this is the working environment.

    Dale Hawerchuck is so right that the long-term acceptance for losing exists from within the Oilers, from within its management and much of its fanbase. That will happen when you’ve been told to be patient for 30 years. Everyone starts to believe the lie. We are not only the North of the NHL, we are the North Korea of the NHL.

    I know it is unpopular, but I really don’t think its a bad idea to turn the first round pick into something with term that can jump into the line up today. I’m not sure Gretzky has a mandate to do it, and I’m glad PC isn’t around to make the deal, but I still think its should be explored. It is not just about making the playoffs, but establishing a baseline of play that is acceptable. UFAs that are needed parts of the cluster 2 years out will be less likely to leave if they see a commitment to winning. The JPs and the JJs will grow if they have more skill to play with now, not in 3 years. Some minutes off 29 and 97 now means they aren’t at risk of injury and another lost half season somewhere soon.

    This team doesn’t need another ace prospect. It needs about six 8s and 9s. The weight of another Yakupov or Bouchard starting this summer is precisely what this team DOESN’T need right now and the team couldn’t handle even if that were the case.

  34. Leroy Draisdale says:

    jtblack,

    FUTURE RHD

    LARSSSON
    PERSSON
    BOUCHARD
    PETROVIC

    FUTURE LHD

    KLEFBOM
    NURSE
    JONES
    XXXXX

    Seems like quality mix of skills with good age and potential to be Cup Worthy.

    From OP’s account Lagesson could possibly fill the XXXXX spot on the left.
    Nice to see the farm with some decent bets!

  35. jtblack says:

    Leroy Draisdale:
    jtblack,

    FUTURE RHD

    LARSSSON
    PERSSON
    BOUCHARD
    PETROVIC

    FUTURE LHD

    KLEFBOM
    NURSE
    JONES
    XXXXX

    Seems like quality mix of skills with good age and potential to be Cup Worthy.

    From OP’s account Lagesson could possibly fill the XXXXX spot on the left.
    Nice to see the farm with some decent bets!

    ues. ADD BEAR, BENNING LAGESSON

    Decent crop

  36. v4ance says:

    frjohnk: He and Manning have gotten beat by speed quite a few times.

    In a way, this also echoes Travis Yost’s article on the shitty talent evaluation. The league is moving more to fast transition defenceman who can pivot and get to dumped in pucks and them pass it up to forwards as fast as possible. The less time you spend in your own zone, the less defence you have to play.

    In his last acts of desperation, Chia picked up two more slow rickibox D who can’t keep up to the speed of the league

  37. godot10 says:

    YKOil: It really was shocking how easily Chia accepted risk in his transactions and how poorly Chia future proofed his contracts.Consider:

    YR1 .. 5.2 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 15 NTC
    YR2 .. 3.8 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 0.5 signing .. 15 NTC
    YR3 .. 4.5 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 15 NTC

    versus

    YR1 .. 6.0 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 3.0 signing .. 22 NTC and NMC before Jan 15
    YR2 .. 4.5 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 1.5 signing .. 15 NTC
    YR3 .. 3.0 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 8 NTC

    identical AAV but the second contract gives:

    – the player far more security in pay (more is front loaded) and extra security in year one
    – the team a much smaller risk profile on the contract via greater flexibility in terms of both the NTC and the attractiveness of the contract to prospective trade partners

    The inability of the team to properly calibrate and balance its risk profiles – especially in risky signings like this one – is mind-boggling to me.So much incompetence.

    Front-loaded contracts have cap recapture consequences if one is forced to buy them out. Contracts should be as flat as possible with minimal signing bonuses and minimal trade restrictions.

  38. YKOil says:

    Tibor,

    Yeah… I get the impression our current guy isn’t really THAT though. Looks like he did well GM’ing the Barons but that isn’t the same as being a Cap and Risk Management guru.

  39. Washingtron says:

    It really was the Nicholson presser that deflated me. I’ve been hoping and praying for Chia’s firing since pretty much Reinhart, but that press conference so clearly indicated that the rot is deeper than GM. I will always maintain that in my 30 some odd years of Oilers fandom he is the worst GM i’ve Ever seen, but seriously? Nicholson emphasizing “character”, saying the team has good pieces (as if five good players and literally no prospects or salary cap for the foreseeable future wasn’t a problem) and can make the playoffs, not to mention failing to see that the OBC IS the “something in the water”, it was all so gutting.

  40. godot10 says:

    Folks. Nicholson has to fill the vacuum with something. The words don’t mean anything.

  41. Munny says:

    Bob on HC@Noon…

    “No timeline for hiring and there may be obstacles like contractual obligations. Majority of things we have to do is right in the dressing room. When Hitch started he had them rolling really well, we need to get back to that game plan. Have to make sure you get a GM who knows the League but also knows the player today.”

    Shannon: Not enough blame has been put the players. This team lacks character. How do you tackle character in the room?

    Nickel: You nailed it with the right word. We want to give the leaders in the room the tools they need to lead well. We’ve been meeting with people and we have to make sure we create a real positive atmosphere in the room and around the organization.”

    Marek: Will there be a shift in how the Oilers play?

    Nickel: We all know the game has gotten quicker so we need to be aware of bringing in skill and speed. Everyone is looking for those same pieces. Some pieces fit in differently with different organizations so the new GM will e looking at it

    Shannon: What about Connor?

    Nickel: We have to take a little pressure off Connor. Leadership has to be spread out a little bit in the locker room.

    Summarized and paraphrased… SN will probably have the video of the telecon up some time today.

  42. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    godot10:
    Folks.Nicholson has to fill the vacuum with something.They don’t mean anything.

    – Exactly: his job is to obfuscate, protect, promote, pass the buck

    – What else besides: “we need to get better”, “it was Chias fault, and not the other people that are still here”, we are going to do a big search” “we need to be better”, do you expect him to say

    – I do though think that when he has to veer off his script, it’s clear to me that through his rambling non-answers that the Org is pretty hallow, and he’s protecting a lot of people, and they are flying by the seat of pants, without a plan. It’s a difficult situation to be sure: Bob’s just the messenger

  43. Andy Dufresne says:

    Its a new day! Lets get busy.

    New GM’s biggest job is getting rid of contracts over the next 18 months.

    2020-21 Roster

    RNH McDavid Yamamoto
    Kharai Draisaitl JP
    Benson Mcleod Maximov
    Marody Hebig Safin

    Klefbom Larsson
    Nurse Bouchard
    Jones Persson
    Samarukov Bear
    Lagesson

    Make all our picks in 2019 (first round Sniper)
    Summer 2019 Trade 2020 First rounder + for a veteran sniper with speed ( age 24 to 27).

  44. powerploy says:

    flyfish1168,

    he should be able to get top line minutes with the kids.

    just kidding, not a shot, I personaly think hes going to become a great player, just a slower bloomer then his draft comparisons

  45. HugThePost says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Exactly: his job is to obfuscate, protect, promote, pass the buck

    – What else besides: “we need to get better”, “it was Chias fault, and not the other people that are still here”, we are going to do a big search” “we need to be better”, do you expect him to say

    – I do though think that when he has to veer off his script, it’s clear to me that through his rambling non-answers that the Org is pretty hallow, and he’s protecting a lot of people, and they are flying by the seat of pants, without a plan.It’s a difficult situation to be sure: Bob’s just the messenger

    It’s maddening for anyone who views it objectively, but from their standpoint why change? The building has been sold out for over a decade and they didn’t even have to win. Katz has his downtown empire paid for and delivered by us.

    Before Bobby Nicks, it was Patrick Laforge who played the role of frontman sales guy. After him there will be another slick guy.

    The beat goes on as long as the sheep continue to flock to 104th

  46. YKOil says:

    godot10: Front-loaded contracts have cap recapture consequences if one is forced to buy them out. Contracts should be as flat as possible with minimal signing bonuses and minimal trade restrictions.

    Contracts should be all sorts of things. The front-loaded nature of a contract is relatively immaterial for buy-out purposes – the Cap Advantage Recapture Penalty being the notable exception – signing bonuses do matter however (see also: Lucic contract) so, if used, they should be used early in a contract when the player is most able to fulfill their contract.

    Signing bonuses is one of the crazy un-foreseen’s of the new CBA’s – when the CBA was negotiated I am sure most GM’s/Owners looked at signing bonuses as a semi-trivial issue. Then player agents started front-loading some contracts for money-now reasons, then they became a way to proof contracts for labour disruption and now they are seen as ways to protect a whole contract. Probably in the top-3 items teams want to negotiate in the next CBA.

  47. YKOil says:

    godot10:
    Folks.Nicholson has to fill the vacuum with something.The words don’t mean anything.

    On that we agree

  48. OriginalPouzar says:

    Also from Friedman’s 31 thoughts regarding potential trades:

    – Oilers have asked about OW’s favorite, Burakovsky – On Lowetide this morning they said the ask is a pair of picks 2nd and 3rd rounders – I don’t see that in a quick look of the 31 thoughts.

    – Oilers like Athansiou and his speed but it would cost alot

    – Oilers are trying to move Rieder to open up some cap space

    – Teams have asked about Bouchard and those conversations have gone nowhere.

  49. New Improved Darkness says:

    smellyglove:
    Have you seen this article by Travis Yost? Scathing, absolutely scathing. And written after Chia was fired.

    https://www.tsn.ca/koskinen-contract-the-latest-perplexing-decision-in-edmonton-1.1246179

    Yost leans hard on analytics, but doesn’t even know that your confidence level goes up on the square root of your sample size (three times more confident, not nine times more confident). Basic, basic, basic statistics.

    Plus it’s far from the only information you have to go on. In particular, Koskinen already has a long professional career on the books, so maybe he’s a rookie (in a technical sense), but he’s surely not a green rookie still finding his way in any useful sense.

    Also, this analysis puts no value on knowing what you’re going to get from year to year: this models a coin with no memory. Talbot was not a coin with no memory. He definitely ran hot and cold, as his large sample size demonstrates extremely well. Good Talbot was a steal. Unpredictable Talbot was a coach and GM killer (not that he didn’t have oodles of help on all fronts).

    After a nice beheading, hard standards of evidence go on happy hiatus.

    There’s nothing quite like already knowing the answer—missing body language never lies—to promote a satisfied second drink rather than a skeptical second check.

  50. oilersfan says:

    If i were Katz i would hire an outside consultant to hire the GM, i wouldnt trust it to Nicholson.

    NIcholson has nothing on his resume to suggest he is qualified to do so.

    Katz must have a dozen people working for him that are CFA’s, Chartered Financial Analysts.

    Have a few of them create a matrix of value based on draft picks, trades, RFA signings and UFA signings. Use that matrix of value to find which organization has done the best, and hire the highest up person who seems to have the most responsibility in that organization.

    I suspect Nicholson may be lost at the word Matrix and go rent the movie.

  51. Andy Dufresne says:

    YKOil: The inability of the team to properly calibrate and balance its risk profiles – especially in risky signings like this one – is mind-boggling to me. So much incompetence.

    Ive been saying since McDavid was drafted that the Oilers should be doing better risk assessments in terms of all of their decision making.

    When you luck into McDavid and Draisiatl you really should be erring on ths side of caution when it comes to risk. One example was in fact Koskinen. (Even though I really like the player). The lower risk option was someone like Halak. I wonder how much “risk assessment” plays a part in player procurement? and what does that assessment look like / consider?Age? Country of Origin? Injury/Health history? Personality atrributes? References (past coaches and players)? Family Situation? Regional Biases? Moving from Eastern Confernce to Western Conference? How many moves in his career? Streakiness? Analytics?, etc?

    Chiarelli was throwing caution to the wind at the end with deals like Strome for Spooner. And at the beginning for that matter with the term on the Lucic contract.

    I think in the beginning Chia was doing poor risk assessment in part becasue he felt he needed to dig the organization out of the whole that they had created (through poor drafting, poor player development and atrocious roster imbalances) but by the end the moves were just pure desperation.

  52. PennersPancakes says:

    oilersfan: I suspect Nicholson may be lost at the word Matrix and go rent the movie.

    Is this how we end up with 54 year old rookie back-up Keanu?

    Funnily enough he was about to play in the CHL (Windsor) until injuries and a nagging actor career got in the way: https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/265282/keanu-reeves

  53. Dustylegnd says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Exactly: his job is to obfuscate, protect, promote, pass the buck

    – What else besides: “we need to get better”, “it was Chias fault, and not the other people that are still here”, we are going to do a big search” “we need to be better”, do you expect him to say

    – I do though think that when he has to veer off his script, it’s clear to me that through his rambling non-answers that the Org is pretty hallow, and he’s protecting a lot of people, and they are flying by the seat of pants, without a plan.It’s a difficult situation to be sure: Bob’s just the messenger

    If you are Executive Vice Chairman……you can choose to not be a Messenger, you can effect change…

    I will roll out the same old tired cliche…….The Definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome

    Does it not become clear that Bob is unwilling to make hard decisions?

    Firing the GM is easy….diagnosing, identifying and eliminating the accomplices is much more difficult

    Nicholson does not inspire confidence that this GM search will end well…….who else will be in on the hiring process……I think we all know K Lowe will have a lot of say….I am pretty sure Nicholson is not going to act in a vacuum…..same as it ever was

  54. Bag of Pucks says:

    To all the Internet pundits whose primary skills appears to be hindsight critique, suggesting they could be the next GM, could you please show proof of your talent assessment and prognostication abilities?

    In particular, proof of prior assessments that Rieder would be piss dropless, Puljujarvi a middling prospect, Sekera injury prone, or Lucic over a cliff in year two, would factor significantly in your job application appraisal and subsequent evaluation.

  55. Oddspell says:

    Munny:
    Link to Friedman’s 31 Thoughts (article):

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-whats-next-oilers-chiarelli-firing/

    “are trying to move Tobias Rieder to open some cap room.”

    What in god’s name… the calls were coming from INSIDE the house!

  56. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Dustylegnd: If you are Executive Vice Chairman……you can choose to not be a Messenger, you can effect change…

    – This was the same argument that many in MSM, and Nic himself have used with Chia

    – Chia was the boss and POHO, so he made the calls without interference, its on him, he chose his own counsel, etc

    – Bob is EVP. For a living, I listen and talk to executives. When I hear Bob, it’s clear he isn’t calling the shots, he has a weak grasp of the task ahead and is flying from seat of pants. Firing Chia was the easy part. Bob is part of a structure that doesn’t get it I don’t think

    – This whole firing out trial ballons through MSM on “ideas” for the next GM, is so old-school, so Oiler

    – I live in Toronto, and it’s remarkable how MLSE has changed the discourse of the way the teams are run. Toronto used to be gong-show central in terms of sports management, I hate the MLSE, but they have done a good job of identifying the right executives, and giving them the tools to run the show. Leafs Raptors TFC have excellent management teams, and you can tell they know they are accountable to the MLSE, and there is a process in place to build sustainable excellence

    – It’s probably hard for a local Edmonton fan to appreciate the difference. The Oil really do seem stuck in the past. 20 years ago, this is how most professional sport was run: bunch of good ole boys, having fun, getting loaded, making bets, leaking narratives to the MSM.

  57. v4ance says:

    I’m not buying the “old Oilers are interfering” narrative. Oh, they’ve got opinions, but how much did they really stand in the way of anything Edmonton did or didn’t do the past four seasons? I’m not convinced it happened often, if at all

  58. Drew says:

    YKOil: It really was shocking how easily Chia accepted risk in his transactions and how poorly Chia future proofed his contracts.Consider:

    YR1 .. 5.2 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 15 NTC
    YR2 .. 3.8 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 0.5 signing .. 15 NTC
    YR3 .. 4.5 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 15 NTC

    versus

    YR1 .. 6.0 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 3.0 signing .. 22 NTC and NMC before Jan 15
    YR2 .. 4.5 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 1.5 signing .. 15 NTC
    YR3 .. 3.0 pay .. 4.5 cap .. 8 NTC

    identical AAV but the second contract gives:

    – the player far more security in pay (more is front loaded) and extra security in year one
    – the team a much smaller risk profile on the contract via greater flexibility in terms of both the NTC and the attractiveness of the contract to prospective trade partners

    The inability of the team to properly calibrate and balance its risk profiles – especially in risky signings like this one – is mind-boggling to me.So much incompetence.

    Hi YKOIL!

    you have long been one of my favorite posters, glad to see you here a little more recently!

    “Don’t you know your outside hockey skills and knowledge have no place inside the cloistered world of pro hockey management! Let the pros run this show, you be a fan.”

    Say the apologists for the last decade.

  59. Shane says:

    Haven’t caught up to the comments yet but just had to stop reading to say thank you for the LOTR references. Gord I love this place!

  60. Glass says:

    What would we have to trade to make an Athanasiou trade happen? I’m not comfortable with trading the 1st, we have a fairly high pick this year and the player drafted likely has a higher ceiling than Athanasiou.

    2nd + Khaira + Rieder? Cap is pretty close. It’d suck to lose Khaira, but Athanasia is a big upgrade + Benson is a player in our system who could become a middle-6 guy (possibly be in a complimentary role in the top 6).

  61. Shane says:

    Glass,

    Doesn’t Jujhar Khaira fit into the ‘get good players, keep good players’ category?

  62. YKOil says:

    Thanks Drew., appreciated.

    I like Athanasiou but agree with the idea that the price would be high. Would we look at a package with Yamamoto in it? Would Detroit?

    Note that his underlying numbers aren’t that great so there is some risk here regarding player quality and the player already had one big contract squabble so there is also some contract risk here as well – say he has a good year on McDavid’s wing, does he consider himself a $5 million+ guy regardless of his zoomed numbers? Now what are you wiling to part with?

    Of more interest is this:

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/four-left-shot-defencemen-canadiens-target-trade/

    No, we do not trade Klefbom. But would an effective Sekera be of interest to them? And do you pull Sekera off Robidas island to find out if you have an effective Sekera?

    Say Sekera starts in the minors, shows some flash and comes back moderately strong – keep him or see if Montreal is interested if we take back Schlemko as part of the deal. Would be far cheaper than Muzzin… hey, how about Russell?

    Oh right, we are making the play-offs, fair enough. Just walking through the wetter parts of Dagorlad now.

  63. Professor Q says:

    Darth Tu: If we somehow have an army of Ents at our disposal, winning the Cup will not be a problem.

    Edmonton needs to trade for MacKenzie Entwistle?

  64. Rebillled says:

    There’s something in the water all right.

    Backwash.

    19 years worth.

  65. texmex says:

    Glass,

    Athanasiou is on pace for 31 goals/ 82 games played. JJ has 3 goals in 46 games and Reider has 0 goals this season.

    It will take much more than the 2nd + Kharia + Reider. Have to add Yamo or JP. I wouldn’t make that trade if I’m Detroit.

  66. Jethro Tull says:

    PennersPancakes: Is this how we end up with 54 year old rookie back-up Keanu?

    Funnily enough he was about to play in the CHL (Windsor) until injuries and a nagging actor career got in the way: https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/265282/keanu-reeves

    Keanu Reeves is an actor? Woah.

  67. hunter1909 says:

    Tibor:
    YKOil,

    Isn’t this why we have a Director of Stanley Cup Management, to advise on such things?

    If this was true he’d be like the old Maytag repairman.

  68. ashley says:

    We are second hand ticket buyers going to about 4 games a year. I can’t believe the ticket prices on stubhub. Games that are still weeks away have tickets for sale for $32USD upper bowl center. $65 lower bowl, and just over $100 for club seats. There are thousands of tickets available, and the prices will drop a lot leading up to the games. That’s a remarkable discount to what we have paid in the past three years at the new stadium. Even last year, we were looking at prices 3x or more.

    I did wonder how Edmonton’s blue collar weighted economy could support the Oilers at the prices they were charging for season tickets when they unveiled the new stadium pricing.

    Who would bother to try to sell tickets for $32USD? The same people who spent $10k for two upper bowl season seats? Surely if they can afford such an expensive luxury item, their time is more valuable than spending half an hour setting up things at stubhub in the unlikely event that they sell their tickets and collect $20ish USDs after stubhub fees.

    Speculating, I would guess that Edmonton probably can’t support those prices and that some season ticket holders were willing to stretch 3 years ago for the chance to witness the combination of a) Connor McDavid, B) in a new stadium, c) challenging for the Stanley Cup. The only things that remain for season ticket renewal or new purchasers is frustrated Connor McDavid and the realization by all of us that he can’t do it by himself.

    I think we are going to see undersubscription for new season tickets and ultimately a drop in prices if economics 101 taught me anything.

  69. Jethro Tull says:

    https://lowetide.ca/2018/07/01/free-agent-canada-day/comment-page-2/#comments

    Just re-reading the ol’ posts from free agent day last year…….

    Toby Reider, eh?

  70. Jethro Tull says:

    ashley:
    We are second hand ticket buyers going to about 4 games a year. I can’t believe the ticket prices on stubhub.Games that are still weeks away have tickets for sale for $32USD upper bowl center.$65 lower bowl, and just over $100 for club seats.There are thousands of tickets available, and the prices will drop a lot leading up to the games.That’s a remarkable discount to what we have paid in the past three years at the new stadium.Even last year, we were looking at prices 3x or more.

    I did wonder how Edmonton’s blue collar weighted economy could support the Oilers at the prices they were charging for season tickets when they unveiled the new stadium pricing.

    It looks like the Edmonton probably can’t support those prices and I think we are going to see undersubscription for new season tickets and ultimately a drop in prices if economics 101 taught me anything.

    I think what you are seeing is not a drop in prices due to the inability to afford the prices – they have proved the market. What you are seeing is a lack of confidence in the product. If the Oilers go on a five game heater and stay close to the race, then you’ll see prices rise. The team has been losing AND not playing well to boot.

    Other factors include any game against original 6, particularly MTL and TOR. I always try for teams like FLO or NSH. or LAK. People here just don’t seem to want to see these teams and I’ve always got good deals.

  71. JimmyV1965 says:

    HugThePost: It’s maddening for anyone who views it objectively, but from their standpoint why change?The building has been sold out for over a decade and they didn’t even have to win.Katz has his downtown empire paid for and delivered by us.

    Before Bobby Nicks, it was Patrick Laforge who played the role of frontman sales guy.After him there will be another slick guy.

    The beat goes on as long as the sheep continue to flock to 104th

    I’ve said this before, but the owner is literally leaving millions on the table for every playoff game they miss.

  72. docweb says:

    ashley:
    We are second hand ticket buyers going to about 4 games a year. I can’t believe the ticket prices on stubhub.Games that are still weeks away have tickets for sale for $32USD upper bowl center.$65 lower bowl, and just over $100 for club seats.There are thousands of tickets available, and the prices will drop a lot leading up to the games.That’s a remarkable discount to what we have paid in the past three years at the new stadium.Even last year, we were looking at prices 3x or more.

    I did wonder how Edmonton’s blue collar weighted economy could support the Oilers at the prices they were charging for season tickets when they unveiled the new stadium pricing.

    It looks like the Edmonton probably can’t support those prices and I think we are going to see undersubscription for new season tickets and ultimately a drop in prices if economics 101 taught me anything.

    This is, or is going to be, a huge problem moving forward for the Oil. If you live in Edmonton, if your tickets don’t sell…well you just go to the game. If for folks like us, who live out of town, if you can’t go to the game and all you can get is 1/2 or less for your tickets it essentially driving up the cost of the tickets that you do use by 1/2 to double the price you actually pay for them!

    A few years ago we had 20 odd folks that we had on a email list for games that we could not go to. They were all snapped up, no problem. With the secondary resale sites now, we don’t even bother emailing because nobody takes them at “our cost” price.

    If we end up giving up the last 2 of our previous 4 Season tickets this year that will be the deciding factor (even more than the incompetent management).

  73. Wilde says:

    Bob McKenzie’s mid-year top 80 is out

    https://www.tsn.ca/it-s-still-the-jack-hughes-draft-1.1246625

    [CAREFUL AUTOPLAY AUDIO]

  74. Darth Tu says:

    Durag: Maybe we can at least swing a deal with Arizona for MacKenzie Entwistle.

    How is old Entwistle doing? Are we calling him an Ent, or the Ox (as in John Entwistle)?
    I seem to remember he’s a giant 6 ft 4 or so, that would certainly fit the Treebeard mould…. Saruman and Orthanc never stood a chance!

  75. PinkSocks says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    To all the Internet pundits whose primary skills appears to be hindsight critique, suggesting they could be the next GM, could you please show proof of your talent assessment and prognostication abilities?

    In particular, proof of prior assessments that Rieder would be piss dropless, Puljujarvi a middling prospect, Sekera injury prone, or Lucic over a cliff in year two, would factor significantly in your job application appraisal and subsequent evaluation.

    But I don’t think anyone here is or was blaming PC for signing Rieder, it was a good move at the time. And blaming PC for taking JP at #4 I don’t see being very common, and neither is Sekera a bad PC move. No one could have predicted the Lucic collapse this early, but the contract was a bad one the moment it was signed . PC was fired for the Reinhart trade, for the Hall trade, for turning Eberle into an AHLer and an overpaid contract to Russell, for Manning, for not building a defense with enough depth to withstand injury, for the mind boggling pair of Koskinen contracts, for buying out players prematurely and/or unnecessarily, horrid cap management, overpaying RFAs, and ultimately for lacking the vision, coherence, and ability to build a team around the best player on the planet, along with 2 other damn fine centremen, which, by the way, he inherited.

    How many trades that Peter made (25+) in his 3.5 years actually had a significant positive impact on the team? I count 2. Maroon for pennies, and Talbot, and even Talbot is debateable at this point.

  76. PinkSocks says:

    JimmyV1965: I’ve said this before, but the owner is literally leaving millions on the table for every playoff game they miss.

    +1,000,000

    Katz wants a winner because it benefits both his ego and his wallet.

  77. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Burke saying to Bob that Maroon was moved out because he was not popular in the room, that the leadership group asked for him to be moved out.

  78. Andy Dufresne says:

    Brian Burke on Oilers Now

    “Chiarelli was forced/heavily pressured by the Oilers mgt team to trade the picks for Reinhart. He didnt wnat to do it”

    ALSO

    “Patrick Maroon was traded because he was not well liked in the room. He was well liked by the fan base but the the veteran leadership group wanted him out of there”

    Nicholson was right. There is something in the water, at least there is at Kingsway.

  79. Andy Dufresne says:

    JimmyV1965: I’ve said this before, but the owner is literally leaving millions on the table for every playoff game they miss.

    All in its approximately $3 million per game.

  80. Gret99zky says:

    oilersfan:

    I suspect Nicholson may be lost at the word Matrix and go rent the movie.

    At Blockbuster.

  81. texmex says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    None of which to goes to the players or HRR if I’m not mistaken??

  82. Oddspell says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    I have a hard time believing that re:Reinhart. What kind of GM/POHO makes moves he doesn’t want to make?

    And what veteran leadership group? I didn’t realise we had one back then.

    Lucic?

    Wasn’t Maroon at Eberle’s wedding?

    Don’t Burke and Lowe have a personal hate on for each other? Wouldn’t believe a word out of his mouth to be honest.

  83. Bag of Pucks says:

    PinkSocks: But I don’t think anyone here is or was blaming PC for signing Rieder, it was a good move at the time.And blaming PC for taking JP at #4 I don’t see being very common, and neither is Sekera a bad PC move. No one could have predicted the Lucic collapse this early, but the contract was a bad one the moment it was signed .PC was fired for the Reinhart trade, for the Hall trade, for turning Eberle into an AHLer and an overpaid contract to Russell, for Manning, for not building a defense with enough depth to withstand injury, for the mind boggling pair of Koskinen contracts, for buying out players prematurely and/or unnecessarily, horrid cap management, overpaying RFAs, and ultimately for lacking the vision, coherence, and ability to build a team around the best player on the planet, along with 2 other damn fine centremen, which, by the way, he inherited.

    How many trades that Peter made (25+) in his 3.5 years actually had a significant positive impact on the team?I count 2.Maroon for pennies, and Talbot, and even Talbot is debateable at this point.

    I’m not defending Chiarelli’s record. Simply pointing out that hindsight is not a skill. There’s mistakes we all recognized in real time. But there was also a lot of unforseen developments that nobody predicted, 4 examples of which I’ve provided.

    The one thing we can likely all predict with absolute certainty is that this situation is highly unlikely to improve with the red wine summit still part of what Bobby Nic refers to as ‘the culture.’

    So, back to square one again. Joy.

  84. Andy Dufresne says:

    texmex:
    Andy Dufresne,

    None of which to goes to the players or HRR if I’m not mistaken??

    From an article at The Sports Daily:

    The lifeblood of the major sports leagues, whether it be MLB, NBA, NFL or NHL, is the television contract. If fans think teams make all their money on ticket sales or concessions, or merchandise sales, it’s not all true. A huge chunk of income is based on the television deal. TV ratings are more important to a team than ticket sales, because that is what will drive the next contract.

    The NHL has a deal with NBC that runs through the 2020-21 season that pays over $200,000,000 annually. That’s just the USA. The Canadian TV deal is worth a whopping 5.2 billion dollars for 12 years beginning in 2014. That breaks down to approximately 500,000 annually. Divide nearly 700,000,000 dollars by 30 and that comes to over 20,000,000 per team. The salary cap per team in the NHL is 75 million. So TV revenue pays a huge chunk of the player’s salaries.

    This does not include local TV revenues. Tampa Bay for instance has local games broadcast of Fox Sports Florida, San Jose on Comcast etc.

    Ticket Sales: Television alone doesn’t cover all of the expenses of operating an NHL franchise though. Ticket sales are still a big part of the equation. In fact, unlike other major pro sports leagues, NHL teams still make most of their money on ticket sales. Teams in Canada routinely sell out and those teams can charge high prices for tickets, because Canadians love their hockey. These revenues are kept by the teams.

    Merchandise and Concession Sales: Merchandise sales do not directly go to the teams. However, they do make a lot of money on licensing fees. So whenever someone buys a t-shirt or hat with the team logo on it, the NHL teams got paid by letting the manufacturer use that logo. Of course, the more they sell the more companies want to produce their merchandise, which in turn means they can negotiate higher licensing fees in the future.

    Now, the teams also will make money of each item sold on their team websites or at the team stores as well. It’s difficult to know the breakdown of each team and how much they make on merchandise sales per item.

  85. Andy Dufresne says:

    An article from SB Nation states:

    The CBA also provides what it describes as “a nonexhaustive list of Hockey Related Revenues …in order to permit the inclusion of new revenue streams” to further define exactly what HRR means. The list might not be exhaustive, but it’s still hefty. Gate receipts from all NHL games (preseason, regular season, and postseason), special games (Winter Classic, games in Europe), revenues related to broadcasts (radio, cable, international, national, over-the-air), team websites, publications, novelty sales (both in-arena and non-arena), concessions, luxury boxes, premium seats, advertising (signage, sponsorships, dasherboards), and parking are the main components of HRR according to the CBA.

    It seems that HRR is simply a calculation that defines the overall league revenue such that a certain percentage of league revenue is garaunteed to go to the players via the CBA and the Salary Cap.

    I dont think HRR is designed to establish how each teams revenue stream is determined.

    Revenue sharing is actually a small number percentage wise.

    For example in 2012, the NHL shared a piddly $150-million of its $3.3-billion (4.5 per cent) revenues that season.

    The typical NHL team spends nearly everything they make on getting better players, building nicer arenas, etc. and are doing well to break even in many cases, why own a team?

    Here is why billionaires buy pro sports teams.

    The New York Rangers were purchased by Madison Square Garden sports in 1997 for 195 million dollars. Today according to Forbes, the team is worth 1.250 billion dollars. That’s about a 600% mark-up in 20 years. So if you can buy a team, break even for a decade or two, then sell the team, you will turn a huge profit.

    The Molson family paid 575 million for the Montreal Canadians in 2009. Less than a decade alter the team’s selling price would be somewhere near 1.120 billion.

  86. texmex says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    I stand corrected. From Section 50.1 of the CBA

    HRR shall include the following non-exhaustive list of revenues:

    (A) NHL Regular Season & Playoff Gate Receipts: All revenues received by a Club or a Club Affiliated Entity derived from the sale of NHL Regular Season and Playoff tickets, including, without limitation: (1) season tickets, (2) single game tickets, and (3) group sales (all such revenues net of admission, GST and other provincial and state or local taxes, and any other charges imposed by government regulation). The face ticket value of luxury boxes/suites and club/premium seats, to the extent that the Club sells tickets to such luxury boxes/suites and/or club/premium seats

  87. Bag of Pucks says:

    PinkSocks: But I don’t think anyone here is or was blaming PC for signing Rieder, it was a good move at the time.And blaming PC for taking JP at #4 I don’t see being very common, and neither is Sekera a bad PC move. No one could have predicted the Lucic collapse this early, but the contract was a bad one the moment it was signed .PC was fired for the Reinhart trade, for the Hall trade, for turning Eberle into an AHLer and an overpaid contract to Russell, for Manning, for not building a defense with enough depth to withstand injury, for the mind boggling pair of Koskinen contracts, for buying out players prematurely and/or unnecessarily, horrid cap management, overpaying RFAs, and ultimately for lacking the vision, coherence, and ability to build a team around the best player on the planet, along with 2 other damn fine centremen, which, by the way, he inherited.

    How many trades that Peter made (25+) in his 3.5 years actually had a significant positive impact on the team?I count 2.Maroon for pennies, and Talbot, and even Talbot is debateable at this point.

    And Chiarelli was fired for the team being bad. Some of which is his fault. Some of which is not. Highly doubt they were parsing the individual moves, most of which they likely signed off on in the committee clusterfuck known as the Oilers ‘brain trust.’

    Meanwhile many of the jokers who contributed to a decade plus of inept drafting and development that left the cupboards bare continue to party like it’s 1999, or more likely 87.

  88. Andy Dufresne says:

    texmex:
    Andy Dufresne,

    I stand corrected. From Section 50.1 of the CBA

    HRR shall include the following non-exhaustive list of revenues:

    (A) NHL Regular Season & Playoff Gate Receipts: All revenues received by a Club or a Club Affiliated Entity derived from the sale of NHL Regular Season and Playoff tickets, including, without limitation: (1) season tickets, (2) single game tickets, and (3) group sales (all such revenues net of admission, GST and other provincial and state or local taxes, and any other charges imposed by government regulation). The face ticket value of luxury boxes/suites and club/premium seats, to the extent that the Club sells tickets to such luxury boxes/suites and/or club/premium seats

    It seems that HRR is simply a calculation that defines the overall league revenue such that a certain percentage of league revenue is garaunteed to go to the players via the CBA and the Salary Cap.

    I dont think HRR is designed to establish how each teams revenue stream is determined.

    So I think your premise that Katz earns 3 million for each playoff home game is correct.

    “Revenue Sharing” is actually a very small percentage of league revenue.

    For example in 2012, the NHL shared a piddly $150-million of its $3.3-billion (4.5 per cent) revenues that season.

    The typical NHL team spends nearly everything they make on getting better players, building nicer arenas, etc. and are doing well to break even in many cases, why own a team?

    Here is why billionaires buy pro sports teams.

    The New York Rangers were purchased by Madison Square Garden sports in 1997 for 195 million dollars. Today according to Forbes, the team is worth 1.250 billion dollars. That’s about a 600% mark-up in 20 years. So if you can buy a team, break even for a decade or two, then sell the team, you will turn a huge profit.

    The Molson family paid 575 million for the Montreal Canadians in 2009. Less than a decade alter the team’s selling price would be somewhere near 1.120 billion.

    The Katz Group bought the Edmonton Oilers in 2008 for 170 million. In 2017 the valuation was at 540 million.

  89. Sierra says:

    HugThePost: It’s maddening for anyone who views it objectively, but from their standpoint why change?The building has been sold out for over a decade and they didn’t even have to win.Katz has his downtown empire paid for and delivered by us.

    Before Bobby Nicks, it was Patrick Laforge who played the role of frontman sales guy.After him there will be another slick guy.

    The beat goes on as long as the sheep continue to flock to 104th

    Exactly

  90. Sierra says:

    flyfish1168: Sure wish JP is down here to play some real games. Maybe he will be seen at a community rink again with the kids having fun

    Didn’t Hitch say last week that Jesse had hit the wall? Maybe they feel some downtime is best for him.

  91. OriginalPouzar says:

    Before I start to go through the comments and present my verbal diarrhea in response, I have to say, LT, this was a fantastic piece this morning. So much good information and so many topics I’d love to discuss.

  92. HT Joe says:

    Oddspell: And what veteran leadership group? I didn’t realise we had one back then.

    Lucic?

    Wasn’t Maroon at Eberle’s wedding?

    Maybe Maroon accidentally sat at the head of the table one time. Heh.

  93. hunter1909 says:

    Darth Tu: How is old Entwistle doing? Are we calling him an Ent, or the Ox (as in John Entwistle)?
    I seem to remember he’s a giant 6 ft 4 or so, that would certainly fit the Treebeard mould…. Saruman and Orthanc never stood a chance!

    Keep him away from Vegas.

  94. Munny says:

    Brantford Boy:
    Sounds like Dale Hawerchuk isn’t interested in the position from the Twitter link LT provided above…
    Hawerchuk @behindthenet
    23h
    “I am perfectly happy in Barrie. I value my time on the golf course too much to take such a stressful job.”

    Lol… easy mistake to make but that’s not Dale Hawerchuk (or rather, that Twitter handle isn’t Dale’s). That’s the one and only Gabe Desjardins, who started this march towards Advanced Stats years ago. Behind the Net is his site, but I don’t think it has been updated in some time.

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    flyfish1168: Sure wish JP is down here to play some real games. Maybe he will be seen at a community rink again with the kids having fun

    I’m wondering if they either (a) consider him an NHL player now or (b) think that sending him down, even if just for the break, would mess with his head?

  96. godot10 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    https://lowetide.ca/2018/07/01/free-agent-canada-day/comment-page-2/#comments

    Just re-reading the ol’ posts from free agent day last year…….

    Toby Reider, eh?

    The Oilers aren’t using Rieder properly, apart from penalty killing. He also got injured early in the season and missed a month. Which doesn’t help.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    Darth Tu: I finally took the plunge and watched a Condors game last night.I know exactly what you mean about Bear’s skating, but I think his work rate might make up for that, I still think he’s a material prospect.Depending how the Oilers season is going (i.e. if we’re out of the playoff race before the end of the season), I’d love to see him get another look in the NHL to see if he’s came on from last year.

    Condors up to 16th in the league overall and 11th on win percentage – that’s not too shabby!

    If Spooner can get going down in the AHL I’m more than happy for him to be given another chance with the Oilers.A lot can be said for moving team and getting yourself going, look at Strome, it took him about half a season to really start rounding into form.Spooner can’t have completely forgotten how to play in the last 2 years, surely this is just a matter of getting him some confidence back?

    I don’t disagree on Bear – he is definitely still a material prospect, I just haven’t seen any improvement in his skating – his biggest deficiency. He does seem to have a good work ethic so hopefully its a skill he is working on as its an improvable skill.

    You might be the only other person that is on board with me with Spooner. I see alot of posts about buying him out, etc. To me, that is not a reasonable option. Buyouts are terrible to start with but buying out a player that has a history of proving second line scoring as a complementary player on a line when that is one of the biggest deficiencies on the team, based on a poor year with limited opportunity – well, I’m not on board with that.

    Aside from some minutes with Nuge when he first was acquired, Spooner has been relegated to the bottom 6 and, bottom 6 as an Oiler means your linemates are, well, offensively challenged at the NHL level.

    To me, if the player cannot be traded without retention, I bring him back and give him a real opportunity at camp. Players have off years and rebound all the time. He has a history of providing production that is value for $3.1M

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    frjohnk:

    Oilers will need to use some assets ( picks, maybe some of the b level prospects, salary retainment) to get rid of the dead weight.

    Salary retention is fine but, god, please, no, do not bleed any assets or value to get rid of the dead weight contracts that expire within 2 years – which is all of them but Lucic.

    Try and move then, even retain, but don’t buyout and extend dead cap hits and don’t bleed assets to dispose. Sure, if someone is will to take Manning with a Brind’Amour level sweetener, fine, but nothing even close to material, nothing of the Lagesson or Berglund level unless we are talking Lucic.

    Those are signs of trying to expedite and these are short term issues that will be gone within 2 years.

    Yes, it will make it tough to add in the interim but that’s fine – this needs to be looked at as a bit of a short-medium term process (2 years).

    Of course, mandate from ownership will likely NOT be on board with my personal idea of the best path forward.

  99. flea says:

    I’m sure lots of you saw this but VisuallyBetter is really kicking out premium Oilers content this week.

    https://twitter.com/Isuckatpicking/status/1088139196898848769

  100. OriginalPouzar says:

    PennersPancakes:
    Could Bakersfield have a legitimate prospect based D next year? Obviously having veterans has its benefits and things can change but this d core, all players has a shot at legitimate NHL futures:

    Jones – Bear
    Lagesson – Bouchard
    Samorukov – Persson

    This of course is barring any trades/injuries/call ups. When was the last time the Oilers had the AHL stocked up like this?

    I love me some prospects and, yes, we are going to be very raw on the back-end next year, raw and talented but I think there needs to be at least a bit of a veteran presence.

    Keegan Lowe is signed for next year so add him in.

    I also think that one of the right shot D will be 3rd pairing in the NHL – the competition should be among:

    Bear, Bouchard, Persson, Berglund – all could be NHL read and, presumably, at least one is. Here is hoping for Persson (or Bear) on true merit.

    Also, I’m not sure about Persson and the AHL – this will be somewhat contract dependent. I assume he’s going to require a one-way deal (which matters to noone but Katz and the player) so that he’d get his NHL salary if re-assigned. Even so, I have no idea if he’ll be amendable to the AHL if he’s not on the NHL team or if he’ll head back overseas.

  101. Alpine says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I’ve posted once or twice about how it’s prudent to try and rebuild Spooner’s value. I think it was Wilde who had a good write up a couple weeks back about how good his ES scoring was in Boston.

    They keep leaking to the scribes that they’re pursuing a bonafide forward but all the realistic options are Spooner types. And why get a rental when you can Spooner for another 18 months.

    The Oilers do this strange thing where they trade a lot for an asset and set high expectations on the player that they most likely won’t meet. Spooner has of course failed to deliver on even modest expectations, but they were quite upset that Strome wasn’t better and quit on him pretty quick.

    Not only do they undervalue the players they trade, but then they undervalue the ones they trade for! A very interesting technique and I can’t figure out why it hasn’t worked out better.

  102. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: The Oilers aren’t using Rieder properly, apart from penalty killing.He also got injured early in the season and missed a month.Which doesn’t help.

    Curious, how is Rieder not being used properly?

    We had a wealth of stats on this guy that screamed 3rd line winger that could play limited 2nd line minutes. A lot here had him penciled in riding shotgun with Drai, based on what I don’t know. Hopefully not just because they’re both from the same country.

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    jake70: I didn’t really have an opinion before yesterday on Nicholson.But I agree with you.He didn’t have a clue what he was saying (which was be design my guess on his part).Character, compete, character, compete….need to get back to playing like when Hitch first started…blah blah blah.Is Chiarelli in the room?Doing the practices? No, so why fire him then if it’s all on the players and/or coach?Total deflection in my opinion on non-Chiarelll hockey ops decision makers (of which HE is one)who assembled this team. It’s not the water Bob…jesusH.

    Bah – the presser gave plenty of information for those that are looking towards the path forward, as opposed to looking to re-hash the past:

    – will make minor moves to try and make the playoffs this years but nothing that mortgages the future

    – 1st round pick is NOT in play

    – top prospects are essentially not in play unless significant value is coming back that will help in the future

    – core is not being traded

    – the core is held in favor but it does need “help” – they will be looking to improve the forwards and the D (i.e we aren’t good enough and will work to get better)

    – the organization has been poor at developing top prospects by now allowing them proper development time – there needs to be an organization shift in that regard

    —————————-

    To me, that is great information.

    If people want to fixate on what level of input McTavish has then, fine, go for it but Nicholson was pretty clear that decisions going forward until new management is hired are by Keith Gretzky as interim GM with guidance and input from Nicholson and the scouts.

    If people want to worry about innocuous statements about character, nothing statements about “something in the water” and things that don’t matter like when exactly Chiarelli was told he was let go, go for it.

    I am looking towards the future and the presser made me happy in that regard.

  104. Yegfoundation says:

    v4ance,

    Are you aware that Paul Messier is a Pro Scout?

  105. who says:

    PinkSocks: But I don’t think anyone here is or was blaming PC for signing Rieder, it was a good move at the time.And blaming PC for taking JP at #4 I don’t see being very common, and neither is Sekera a bad PC move. No one could have predicted the Lucic collapse this early, but the contract was a bad one the moment it was signed .PC was fired for the Reinhart trade, for the Hall trade, for turning Eberle into an AHLer and an overpaid contract to Russell, for Manning, for not building a defense with enough depth to withstand injury, for the mind boggling pair of Koskinen contracts, for buying out players prematurely and/or unnecessarily, horrid cap management, overpaying RFAs, and ultimately for lacking the vision, coherence, and ability to build a team around the best player on the planet, along with 2 other damn fine centremen, which, by the way, he inherited.

    How many trades that Peter made (25+) in his 3.5 years actually had a significant positive impact on the team?I count 2.Maroon for pennies, and Talbot, and even Talbot is debateable at this point.

    PC was fired for the Reinhart trade and the Lucic signing. And the desperation in season moves this year.
    Everything else was marginally good or bad depending on your biases.
    That’s how I see it anyways.

  106. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Pondering what is the best interest long-term for the team in terms of results for rest of year?

    – Ideally, Sek and Klef come back and the team plays a lot better, Koski shows he’s legit starting G over a long period, we get into the playoffs, show well.

    – As a fan, this is what we should all want. But what does a playoff berth and good results mean?

    – I don’t want Hitch back as coach next year. I don’t want the org thinking all they need is a new shiny GM who is way better than Chia and we can fix this bad-boy up in a jiffy

    – I fear that a playoff run might actually not be the best for the org, as it might make them think that its all good: is that crazy talk on my part?

    – Also Nicholson: after he did an exhaustive audit, he brought in Chia and Coach.Katz gives him the benefit of doubt that he will have learned from the past process. He’s got all the same people on board to provide “advice” as before: how is this process going to be different?

    I see zero negative from making the playoffs (assuming we aren’t renting to make it).

    The GM is gone, a new one is coming in – that is done.

    I haven’t been a big fan of Hitch over the last month but, if we make the playoffs, presumably he’s had a big part in the turn around – maybe we would want him back.

    A major potential plus of making the playoffs is what it does to Katz’s mind-set and his mandate of new management. If there are no playoffs and playoff revenue and the luxury box renewal fear is real, he will likely be asking management to make this team materially better in the off-season. That can only be done with high risk moves that provide cap space to make improvements – we don’t want that (at least I don’t).

    Making the playoffs may take some pressure off management in the very near term (i.e. for substantial immediate improvements) and allow management to make reasonable, calculated and low risk moves that acknowledge that amount of contracts that expire within 2 years.

  107. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    I hate the Manning trade.

    This level of incompetence is enough to be suspicious.

    Nobody is that stupid.

  108. jake70 says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    I am looking towards the future and the presser made me happy in that regard.

    I tip my hat to you, you remain quite positive about the team. We’ll see how it plays out.

  109. godot10 says:

    Jethro Tull: Curious, how is Rieder not being used properly?

    We had a wealth of stats on this guy that screamed 3rd line winger that could play limited 2nd line minutes.A lot here had him penciled in riding shotgun with Drai, based on what I don’t know.Hopefully not just because they’re both from the same country.

    He should be playing right wing with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins. An argument I made for 4 months before he was an Oiler.

    Playing him with Draisaitl would be acceptable also, but I wanted him, and I wanted him for the RW spot on the first line.

    My hypothesis is still untested because of hyper-system coaches, who can’t see past #McDraivid, for roster construction.

  110. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: He should be playing right wing with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins.An argument I made for 4 months before he was an Oiler.

    Playing him with Draisaitl would be acceptable also, but I wanted him, and I wanted him for the RW spot on the first line.

    My hypothesis is still untested because of hyper-system coaches, who can see past #McDraivid, for roster construction.

    Can you provide or is there any evidence that Rieder could play at that level?

    I mean, I can’t say it shouldn’t be done, after all, they play Chiasson there. It’s weird, though. Like with Strome, there are some that would push a player that can’t piss a drop offensively onto the top line with the best player in the league.

    What about accountability? Rieder should be scratched, not promoted.

  111. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    OP, as you rightly point out, a few problem contracts come of the books in the next 2yrs. What would be your plan to replace these players, bearing in mind that they are not very good players and we will only get low end picks for them, if we don’t let them walk?

    We’ve established that the prospects will stay in the smalls until over-ripened, but somebody has to skate around a bit every other night in an Oilers uniform.

    Your way will take at least 4yrs to see any result, i believe. And that’s if none of the current batch of prospects washes out, which they will.

    The window for trades with the Blues is closing, and will slam shut if they have a sniff of the wildcard by the deadline.

    I think that there are some that think that because all our recent trades were bad, that all trades are bad.

  112. flyfish1168 says:

    Sierra: Didn’t Hitch say last week that Jesse had hit the wall? Maybe they feel some downtime is best for him.

    OriginalPouzar: I’m wondering if they either (a) consider him an NHL player now or (b) think that sending him down, even if just for the break, would mess with his head?

    Maybe a week break would be good for him. With everything going on in the media about his future at his age it has to be disconcerting and stressful to him.

  113. hunter1909 says:

    flyfish1168: Maybe a week break would be good for him. With everything going on in the media about his future at his age it has to be disconcerting and stressful to him.

    I doubt if he reads English.

  114. godot10 says:

    Jethro Tull: Can you provide or is there any evidence that Rieder could play at that level?

    I mean, I can’t say it shouldn’t be done, after all, they play Chiasson there.It’s weird, though.Like with Strome, there are some that would push a player that can’t piss a drop offensively onto the top line with the best player in the league.

    What about accountability?Rieder should be scratched, not promoted.

    He played for Team Europe in the last World Cup, and not on a checking line.

    His shooting percentage is an anomaly this year, but he is playing with players for the most part are incapable of making a pass.

    If you look at Rieder’s primary assist rate, I believe it is still right there in the range for a middle six winger.

    His skillset is ideal for right wing with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins for a cap strapped team laden with dead weight in need of a cheap winger who can contribute there.

  115. godot10 says:

    Athanasiou has scored historically at about the same rates as Rieder, but is on a heater this year, and many here want to trade real assets (for a player hard to negotiate contract with), when you have basically the same player in a drought.

  116. RedNed says:

    Been an interesting couple of days to follow three terrible losses. I’m a simple person, I was sadder at our losses than I was happy at Chia’s firing. The index of my enjoyment is how well we play, whether we win, are we in the race. The GM stuff is background noise, albeit deafening at times.

    Let the team play hockey. Go for the wins. There is no perfect team, just make the best of what we’ve got and I’ll be satisfied.

  117. Dustylegnd says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – This was the same argument that many in MSM, and Nic himself have used with Chia

    – Chia was the boss and POHO, so he made the calls without interference, its on him, he chose his own counsel, etc

    – Bob is EVP.For a living, I listen and talk to executives.When I hear Bob, it’s clear he isn’t calling the shots, he has a weak grasp of the task ahead and is flying from seat of pants.Firing Chia was the easy part.Bob is part of a structure that doesn’t get it I don’t think

    – It’s probably hard for a local Edmonton fan to appreciate the difference.The Oil really do seem stuck in the past.20 years ago,this is how most professional sport was run: bunch of good ole boys, having fun, getting loaded, making bets, leaking narratives to the MSM.

    I am not a local Edmontonian, I trade commodities, I have worked with/for autocratic Billionaires, and hyper intelligent analysts that are functionally useless……

    I have a decent appreciation for what it is like working directly with a Billionaire in a dysfunctional company but a very very very profitable dysfunction…..

    the organization I worked in was the opposite dysfunction of the Oilers…..the average tenor of an employee was 11 months…..many got fired due to lack of performance…..many quit because it was too intense, there was no old boy network because nobody ever lasted long enough

    The question becomes……if Bob doesn’t get it and Bob has no real understanding of what is wrong with the whole organization, who does?

    Who is in charge of the hiring process and how can Katz let the same crew hire one more GM, a GM that they can be sure will keep their buddies in place?

    Katz needs to hire an outside consultant to complete the hiring process and get it right this time……the dysfunction needs to be purged and a complete new and progressive philosophy installed….this means a total purge of the usual suspects…..Sather could be the man, Burke could be the man, Scotty Bowman could be the man….you probably have a better idea of the right man….I look forward to your thoughts

  118. Dustylegnd says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Brian Burke on Oilers Now

    “Chiarelli was forced/heavily pressured by the Oilers mgt team to trade the picks for Reinhart. He didnt wnat to do it”

    ALSO

    “Patrick Maroon was traded because he was not well liked in the room. He was well liked by the fan base but the the veteran leadership group wanted him out of there”

    Nicholson was right. There is something in the water, at least there is at Kingsway.

    I have maintained all along the Reinhart move sits squarely with Bob Green….there was little doubt about that

    “Veteran leadership group” what, Lucic pissed that Maroon took his job for a fraction of the price??

    Good god this gets smore concerning by the day

    Great article by ESPN on the Cleveland browns and their dysfunction

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25797430/inside-cleveland-browns-front-office-where-hope-history-collide

  119. Southern Oil says:

    This blog is a daily read for me – multiple times in fact. However I only post about once or twice a year but still feel like I am a part of this community. That’s what makes this corner of the Al Gore so special. Lost a man’s best friend today. My 16 year old pooch passed away at home around 4 o’clock. Lost. Walking aorund looking for my dog. Sorry for the downer but I’m reaching out to all as a coping mechanism. I could use an Oil game tonight.

  120. digger50 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Brian Burke on Oilers Now

    “Chiarelli was forced/heavily pressured by the Oilers mgt team to trade the picks for Reinhart. He didnt wnat to do it”

    ALSO

    “Patrick Maroon was traded because he was not well liked in the room. He was well liked by the fan base but the the veteran leadership group wanted him out of there”

    Nicholson was right. There is something in the water, at least there is at Kingsway.

    Surprising comment. Veteran leadership group? By all appearances Connor and Patrick got along well. Who the heck is the veteran leadership group and just how do they influence the GM decisions?

    Just sounds like another “blame the players” tactic.

    Who do they vote out this year? Kind of running out of targets.

  121. digger50 says:

    Dare I bring up Bouchard?

    He could be great. He could be soft and be a #5 d man. There is risk here.

    IF I had to bring up someone that we MUST look at moving, I would explore Bouchard and the second rounder.

    Keeps first rounder

    Add to the core with the addition of a 22 year old top line winger.

  122. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bouchard with a 1st period assist on a Tymkin goal.

  123. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sierra: Didn’t Hitch say last week that Jesse had hit the wall? Maybe they feel some downtime is best for him.

    He did say that and then he went and put him on the 1st line – a line that plays apx 20 minutes at evens/game.

    Of course, in the 2 games he started at 1RW, I think he played a total of 5 shifts there… before he was “Caved”.

  124. Alpine says:

    godot10:
    Athanasiou has scored historically at about the same rates as Rieder, but is on a heater this year, and many here want to trade real assets (for a player hard to negotiate contract with), when you have basically the same player in a drought.

    I’m very much pro-Rieder but which rates are we talking about here? Athanasiou is around 2.00 P/60 in his career while Rieder is under 1.50 P/60.

  125. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: He should be playing right wing with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins.An argument I made for 4 months before he was an Oiler.

    Playing him with Draisaitl would be acceptable also, but I wanted him, and I wanted him for the RW spot on the first line.

    My hypothesis is still untested because of hyper-system coaches, who can’t see past #McDraivid, for roster construction.

    As long as you acknowledge that it is just a hypothesis and, yes, untested. Your previous posts inferred you were quite adamant that it would be a fit.

    Not to mention that Rieder, in his career, has never resembled a top line player or shown that he is likely to produce in such a position – he has proven to be a middle six player, maybe even best suited for the bottom 6.

    Additionally, speed is not a prerequisite to play with McDavid and is not nearly as important as offensive IQ which I’m not so sure Rieder has.

    Of course, in limited samples, Rieder/McDavid has not worked and Rieder/Nuge has been awful

    Rieder/Nuge – 62 minutes – CF% 37%, FF% 34.21%, GF% 0% (4 goals given up in those 62 minutes)

    Rider/McDavid – 21 minutes – CF% 35.7%, FF 34%, GF% n/a

  126. Rebillled says:

    My newish ladyfriend likes the drama of this team and Lucic.

    Isn’t that great?

    Southern Oil,

    Very sorry about your dog.

  127. Alpine says:

    Southern Oil:
    This blog is a daily read for me – multiple times in fact. However I only post about once or twice a year but still feel like I am a part of this community.That’s what makes this corner of the Al Gore so special.Lost a man’s best friend today.My 16 year old pooch passed away at home around 4 o’clock.Lost.Walking aorund looking for my dog.Sorry for the downer but I’m reaching out to all as a coping mechanism.I could use an Oil game tonight.

    Man, sorry to hear. My last dog went in March 2017, only made it to 10 years old. There’s a new dog in the family now but I still wish I had a couple more years with the old guy.

    Hope you’re holding up well. Pets really do leave a lasting effect on us.

  128. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull:
    OriginalPouzar,

    OP, as you rightly point out, a few problem contracts come of the books in the next 2yrs.What would be your plan to replace these players, bearing in mind that they are not very good players and we will only get low end picks for them, if we don’t let them walk?

    We’ve established that the prospects will stay in the smalls until over-ripened, but somebody has to skate around a bit every other night in an Oilers uniform.

    Your way will take at least 4yrs to see any result, i believe.And that’s if none of the current batch of prospects washes out, which they will.

    The window for trades with the Blues is closing, and will slam shut if they have a sniff of the wildcard by the deadline.

    I think that there are some that think that because all our recent trades were bad, that all trades are bad.

    I don’t have a plan to replace the problem contracts within the next two years – my plan includes keeping them – perhaps burying them in the minors at the cap savings of $1,075,000 per contract if required.

    Within two years they are gone – Manning, Spooner, Russell (not a total anchor, provides some value), Sekera (I’m still not convinced he won’t provide some value) and, at that time, coupled with the increasing cap, management will have oodles of cap room. If there is amnesty buyouts at that point then we can get rid of Lucic’s cap.

    At the end of two years, we have:

    – tons of cap space

    – McDavid, Drai, Nurse entering their prime

    – Klefbom and Larsson in their prime

    – Nuge as a veteran

    – potential for one of Yamamoto or Puljujarvi to “pop” and be a true top 6 winger

    – likelihood of Bouchard ready for the top 6

    – likelihood that a couple of the prospects that could prove to be NHL ready for next season have hit and are provding some middle/bottom 6 and bottom 4 value (Benson, Marody, Lagesson, Jones, Bear, Persson, Berglund)

    – guys like Jones and, say, Lagesson replacing Russell and Sekera

    – maybe we move on from Nuge and not re-sign him if McLeod’s development goes quick – maybe even selling Nuge at the deadline the year before

    – etc.

  129. pts2pndr says:

    Chelios is a Dinosaur:
    Coiler,

    I find it equally odd that people can look at this state of affairs and not be concerned McDavid walks away before this mess can be cleaned up. 8 years turns to 0 rather quickly when this is the working environment.

    Dale Hawerchuck is so right that the long-term acceptance for losing exists from within the Oilers, from within its management and much of its fanbase. That will happen when you’ve been told to be patient for 30 years. Everyone starts to believe the lie. We are not only the North of the NHL, we are the North Korea of the NHL.

    I know it is unpopular, but I really don’t think its a bad idea to turn the first round pick into something with term that can jump into the line up today. I’m not sure Gretzky has a mandate to do it, and I’m glad PC isn’t around to make the deal, but I still think its should be explored. It is not just about making the playoffs, but establishing a baseline of play that is acceptable. UFAs that are needed parts of the cluster 2 years out will be less likely to leave if they see a commitment to winning. The JPs and the JJs will grow if they have more skill to play with now, not in 3 years. Some minutes off 29 and 97 now means they aren’t at risk of injury and another lost half season somewhere soon.

    This team doesn’t need another ace prospect. It needs about six 8s and 9s. The weight of another Yakupov or Bouchard starting this summer is precisely what this team DOESN’T need right now and the team couldn’t handle even if that were the case.

    The reality is that the cap problems are such that the only way out of this mess is to keep our draft choices. The Sekera and Russel contracts become more moveable as we move forward and there are prospects in the pipeline. Bleeding more resources in the way of draft picks or young talent to acquire for an example a top six winger only provides a temporary fix. It took us three years to get here and we will be fortunate if we can turn this around in two years. First prioity is to stop the bleeding!

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: He played for Team Europe in the last World Cup, and not on a checking line.

    and produced 1 assist in 6 games – if anything that statement helps disprove your hypothesis.

  131. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10:
    Athanasiou has scored historically at about the same rates as Rieder, but is on a heater this year, and many here want to trade real assets (for a player hard to negotiate contract with), when you have basically the same player in a drought.

    Rieder has a lot of things the team needs, he is not the problem. He’s fast he can PK and is competent defensively.

    Sure he’s not scoring but who is outside of the top 3? It’s the D and a system thing IMO.

  132. leadfarmer says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Rieder has a lot of things the team needs, he is not the problem. He’s fast he can PK and is competent defensively.

    Sure he’s not scoring but who is outside of the top 3? It’s the D and a system thing IMO.

    There’s a difference between not scoring and really not scoring.

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    Evan Bouchard adds a second primary assist early in the 2nd period.

  134. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Jethro Tull: I think what you are seeing is not a drop in prices due to the inability to afford the prices – they have proved the market.What you are seeing is a lack of confidence in the product.If the Oilers go on a five game heater and stay close to the race, then you’ll see prices rise.The team has been losing AND not playing well to boot.

    Other factors include any game against original 6, particularly MTL and TOR.I always try for teams like FLO or NSH. or LAK.People here just don’t seem to want to see these teams and I’ve always got good deals.

    Exactly, there is fan fatigue setting in. Who wants to make the effort and take the overall cost to go to a game and see an uninspiring performance and another game over in the first few minutes? Especially with the team having no answer to Connor’s sag in performance which is I think related to Hitch’s style.

    Hitch has been wrong on how to use Connor. It’s not like all of the sudden teams are checking him.

    Shots are down, chip and chase isn’t the answer for his line. Uncreative.

  135. Scungilli Slushy says:

    leadfarmer: There’s a difference between not scoring and really not scoring.

    Yes, but taking context into account, he was injured. We have plenty of track seeing players leave and return to their average.

    They are trying to play Kings Cup winning hockey and it’s long gone even for the Kings. Grinding heavy hockey, airtight defensively, except now it’s really hard to obstruct and hold which is what makes it work.

  136. workaroundaccount says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t have a plan to replace the problem contracts within the next two years – my plan includes keeping them – perhaps burying them in the minors at the cap savings of $1,075,000 per contract if required.

    Within two years they are gone – Manning, Spooner, Russell (not a total anchor, provides some value), Sekera (I’m still not convinced he won’t provide some value) and, at that time, coupled with the increasing cap, management will have oodles of cap room. If there is amnesty buyouts at that point then we can get rid of Lucic’s cap.

    At the end of two years, we have:

    – tons of cap space

    – McDavid, Drai, Nurse entering their prime

    – Klefbom and Larsson in their prime

    – Nuge as a veteran

    – potential for one of Yamamoto or Puljujarvi to “pop” and be a true top 6 winger

    – likelihood of Bouchard ready for the top 6

    – likelihood that a couple of the prospects that could prove to be NHL ready for next season have hit and are provding some middle/bottom 6 and bottom 4 value (Benson, Marody, Lagesson, Jones, Bear, Persson, Berglund)

    – guys like Jones and, say, Lagesson replacing Russell and Sekera

    – maybe we move on from Nuge and not re-sign him if McLeod’s development goes quick – maybe even selling Nuge at the deadline the year before

    – etc.

    The only problem is Nuge will need a raise (at least 2mil). Klef and Larsson will be on the verge of getting raises. Free agents rarely pan out, and everybody get’s 7 picks a year (and most people do better with those licks than we do). Imo, the cap problem an the talent problem are almost separate issues.

  137. OriginalPouzar says:

    Maksimov with a late second period goal as Niagara goes up 4-1.

  138. Scungilli Slushy says:

    I commented a year or more ago about the need to be a big heavy team to compete the West and how it was and is a fallacy.

    I went through the teams rosters to find all of these big centres we to compete against and there were only a few, and overall the teams weren’t that ‘big’.

    So they hired Chia to heavy up. Really what they were reacting to was Getzlaf being big and a prick, and Kopitar dominating Nuge when he was still a baby. They were also enamoured with Johansen who while Big isn’t a hard player.
    Man crushes and envy have been crippling to the team.
    A
    And players like Perry and Kesler, who aren’t prohibitively big. What they needed wasn’t MOAR BIGGAR but players getting older and ancillary players with more jam that could play.

    This comes right at the heart of the ‘water’. As Friedman said in his 31 the Oilers are far behind the best teams in looking for every advantage. They aren’t using effective analysis or they would have known that the west isn’t some ogre filled conference and that player well being and more skill is what would win, and the core getting older.

    It’s been a long time since heavy hockey won a cup, years before Chia took the helm. Chicago and Pittsburgh have been on top since, with the blip of the Caps. And they won with a skill and speed based approach. Which is why they should hire Quenneville this summer.

    He’s hard enough for the OBC and has shown to get the most out of players including a bunch of former Oilers.

    They have the chance to use the failure of their thinking to become a forward thinking org that invests in accountability but also creating a really supportive and a teaching and training environment to maximize the Daryl’s investment. Team success and fan enjoyment.

  139. Lowetide says:

    Southern Oil:
    This blog is a daily read for me – multiple times in fact. However I only post about once or twice a year but still feel like I am a part of this community.That’s what makes this corner of the Al Gore so special.Lost a man’s best friend today.My 16 year old pooch passed away at home around 4 o’clock.Lost.Walking aorund looking for my dog.Sorry for the downer but I’m reaching out to all as a coping mechanism.I could use an Oil game tonight.

    Ah dammit. My dog is seven, the other day I walked into the room and my wife and daughter were talking about how they were going to handle me when the dog dies. It’s like 10 (I hope, at least) years away! Dogs are family, that’s a fact. Sorry for your loss.

  140. hunter1909 says:

    workaroundaccount: The only problem is Nuge will need a raise (at least 2mil).

    This seems to be a major screw up in the fanbase.

    Why should RNH even get a raise? 6 million per season is not enough?

    No wonder the fans are starting to bail.

  141. OriginalPouzar says:

    workaroundaccount: The only problem is Nuge will need a raise (at least 2mil). Klef and Larsson will be on the verge of getting raises. Free agents rarely pan out, and everybody get’s 7 picks a year (and most people do better with those licks than we do). Imo, the cap problem an the talent problem are almost separate issues.

    Yup, Nuge will likely need a raise but the cap inflation in two years will take care of that and the expiring contracts will create the oodles of cap space.

    Additionally, there are other options – perhaps Ryan McLeod with a year in the AHL and a year in the NHL is ready for that 3C role and we can save $5M (plus the $2M extra on Nuge’s new contract). Perhaps, in conjunction therewith, we sold Nuge at the prior deadline for a pretty damn good haul.

    I woudl posit the drafting outside the first round has been much improved the last few years and we no longer lag behind – too early to truly tell if that’s the case but its trending that way – look where Jones and Bear were drafted. Look at the arrows from all the players in the 2017 draft – we even have a 7th round pick playing an important role for a very good Team USA at the World Juniors.

  142. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Southern Oil:
    This blog is a daily read for me – multiple times in fact. However I only post about once or twice a year but still feel like I am a part of this community.That’s what makes this corner of the Al Gore so special.Lost a man’s best friend today.My 16 year old pooch passed away at home around 4 o’clock.Lost.Walking aorund looking for my dog.Sorry for the downer but I’m reaching out to all as a coping mechanism.I could use an Oil game tonight.

    I’m sorry SO. Been there, it’s hard. Sounds like a pooch that had a great owner and a happy go in their time. It means a lot.

  143. Munny says:

    digger50:
    Dare I bring up Bouchard?

    He could be great. He could be soft and be a #5 d man. There is risk here.

    IF I had to bring up someone that we MUST look at moving, I would explore Bouchard and the second rounder.

    Keeps first rounder

    Add to the core with the addition of a 22 year old top line winger.

    One would need to be certain that Bouchard isn’t a Duncan Keith level of player before trading him away.

  144. Glovjuice says:

    Oddspell: If Spooner can get himself going, and become a 13 goal-ish player in the NHL again, then that’s already makes the next GMs job easier.

    LOL

  145. Bag of Pucks says:

    It’s interesting to see so many people harbouring this belief that successful sports franchises should run more like democratic corporations and less like autocratic dictatorships, when the reality is most of the dynastic franchises in sports have been a result of the latter model and not the former.

    There seems to be this belief that the OBC is the ‘smartest man in the room’ paradigm when in actuality what they are is a decision-by-consensus approach that stifles innovation and out-of-the-box thinking by pandering to conventional wisdom and groupthink lemming behaviour.

    The Oilers are like GM or IBM. Trading on past glories, entrenched complacent management, eroding revenue streams from habitual aging consumers. Hey, the jerseys are orange now. Look at us changing with the times!

    Hockey operations staffs are tiny compared to average corporate structures. IBM can hire a new CEO but the work they have to do reinvent systemic problems with staff, process and strategy is massive. By contrast, a sports franchise can hire a talented leader and they can reinvent the business almost singlehandedly within a single year IF they are given a green light to hire their own people and establish their own vision and processes. This is precisely why teams with talented leaders like Bellichick, Saban, Riley or Pollock can outperform the competition for decades despite annual turnover with the competition continually poaching their staff and players. This is precisely why outside one improbable Cinderella run, the Oilers have struggled ever since Sather left. One man (or woman) albeit the perfect person for the job is all it takes.

    Firing/scapegoating yet another puppet GM while signaling that the next hire must ‘fit with the culture’ is the equivalent of an IBM press release announcing business as usual at ‘Big Blue’ while the true innovators lap the field yet again.

    Darryl Katz excels at the game of ‘other people’s money.’ As a hockey club owner, he couldn’t be more inept. Robert Kraft is the current gold standard in pro sports ownership. Perhaps Darryl should take a cue from him and find a supremely talented leader who’s contributed hugely to championship teams while labouring in another’s shadow (ie Bellichick under Parcells). Who’s labouring unheralded in the shadow of Yzerman, Poile, Shero, Rutherford, etc. How about interviewing and finding that guy for a change? How about giving him an actual mandate, to hire & fire, to drain the swamp and drag this franchise into the 21st century?

    Ah, who am I kidding. This will never change in a market where there are no ramifications for failure. As long as we buy this crap, they’ll keep making it.

  146. Glovjuice says:

    elgruntus:
    The Twitter thread by Hawerchuk was insightful.

    Katz, in any world outside of Gotham, would be considered a super villain, yet here in Mallville, some still see him as a savior. He bought the team with a boatload of promises that seemed to evaporate quicker than Woodguy’s Scotch. He leveraged this city’s love for their team into a nice downtown empire and kept the prize asset as his personal pet.

    Let’s face it. Katz is just a glorified Lowetidian with huge bank. Whereas we offer up our ingenious ideas on how to run this team, he actually gets to put them into practice and hang with our heroes (and then turn them into pariahs) .

    MacT and Lowe had gone to great lengths to include a CHL, undrafted defenceman on the World Championship roster, knowing that they held the top spot in the draft. It was an obvious audition. It was widely speculated that it was Katz, on the draft day floor, that turned Ryan Murray into Nail Yakupov. Nice slap to the scouting staff.

    Lowe, under the Gang of Ownershio Group, was a capable GM. MacT is well respected through the league. They didnt just lose their minds when Batman bought the team. The rot is at the top, with no way to cut the head off the snake.

    This is us.

    *** wasn’t there a competing offer to buy the Oilers when Katz purchased them? I wonder…what if?

    Perfect post

  147. smellyglove says:

    Has this blog decided yet how much independence Chiarelli actually had?

  148. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ryan McLeod with an assist on the game winning PP goal in the third.

  149. razor says:

    RE: Nicholson’s focus on character in the dressing room. Man what a dumb thing to say after firing your GM due to his poor player personnel decisions. I find it interesting that although Bob says the issue is “character” McDavid says a couple of days earlier that the team can’t “out skill” other teams. Why can’t we out skill other teams? We have the most skilled player in the world. That puts us like half way to being a skill level of TB. Oh yeah, I know why, our previous management continually made decisions to place higher value on “heaviness” over skill and speed. Even when pressed in post games, Hitch is saying that he doesn’t have the horses, meanwhile playing the likes of McDavid and Draisaitl 30 minutes a night. So no, BOB, the Oilers issues have nothing to do with character in the room. Hire a GM that will prioritize skill and analytics and give him the rope to make changes, and watch your “culture” improve. Jesus Christ I don’t see anything improving if “culture” is the top priority for the new GM. Wasn’t Hall traded for culture? Lucic brought in for Stanley Cup intangibles? How’s this focus on culture working for us so far?

  150. Caller Zen says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    It’s interesting to see so many people harbouring this belief that successful sports franchises should run more like democratic corporations and less like autocratic dictatorships, when the reality is most of the dynastic franchises in sports have been a result of the latter model and not the former.

    There seems to be this belief that the OBC is the ‘smartest man in the room’ paradigm when in actuality what they are is a decision-by-consensus approach that stifles innovation and out-of-the-box thinking by pandering to conventional wisdom and groupthink lemming behaviour.

    Major kudos on this post and this insight, even if it does makes things look even more dire. How is fanboy Katz ever going to distance himself from the glory years OBC? If the DoD didn’t change much, how much worse can it get? This is why I think it will take at a few of members of the OBC to realize, “it’s not you, it’s me” and break up with Darryl and just parts ways with the organization.

  151. Professor Q says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Yes, but taking context into account, he was injured. We have plenty of track seeing players leave and return to their average.

    They are trying to play Kings Cup winning hockey and it’s long gone even for the Kings. Grinding heavy hockey, airtight defensively, except now it’s really hard to obstruct and hold which is what makes it work.

    Except if you’re playing the Oilers.

  152. --hudson-- says:

    Dustylegnd: I have maintained all along the Reinhart move sits squarely with Bob Green….there was little doubt about that

    “Veteran leadership group” what, Lucic pissed that Maroon took his job for a fraction of the price??

    Good god this gets smore concerningby the day

    Great article by ESPN on the Cleveland browns and their dysfunction

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25797430/inside-cleveland-browns-front-office-where-hope-history-collide

    Enjoyed that article tremendously. Thanks for sharing it!

    It would be nice to read another article that leans in the other direction to even out some of the bias. But one thing consistent with my experience and observations with the Oilers, you can’t keep changing direction every few years, letting new managers put their stamp on the team. Pick a direction and see it through.

  153. JimmyV1965 says:

    Oddspell:
    Andy Dufresne,

    I have a hard time believing that re:Reinhart. What kind of GM/POHO makes moves he doesn’t want to make?

    And what veteran leadership group? I didn’t realise we had one back then.

    Lucic?

    Wasn’t Maroon at Eberle’s wedding?

    Don’t Burke and Lowe have a personal hate on for each other? Wouldn’t believe a word out of his mouth to be honest.

    What’s really hilarious is that trading Maroon and not resigning him was one of his smarter decisions. I was worried he would sign him for $4 mill.

  154. hunter1909 says:

    Oilers are still rotten from the neck up.

    Keith Gretzky cannot possibly be any worse than the last two clowns, but he is like Tambellini in that 1) he’s an obvious OBC approved hire and 2) number 1 is more than enough so no need to mention more

    4 names who can now be directly linked to over a decade of suck:
    Lowe
    MacT
    Howson
    Nicholson
    These 4 KLowns guarantee 3rd rate management in perpetuity. See MacT pathetically including himself during every possible photo op for proof the org is terminally rotten.

    The alternative is, to blame Edmonton, and the fans. A few manage this neocon style trick of mind belief/suspension.

    Wayne G of course, can come and go as he pleases, including scouting sessions, anything. Retired, he’s like the Beliveau of the Oilers. That’s what captaining 4 cup winners gets you.

  155. Bag of Pucks says:

    Caller Zen: Major kudos on this post and this insight, even if it does makes things look even more dire. How is fanboy Katz ever going to distance himself from the glory years OBC? If the DoD didn’t change much, how much worse can it get? This is why I think it will take at a few of members of the OBC to realize, “it’s not you, it’s me” and break up with Darryl and just parts ways with the organization.

    If nothing else, maybe some of them will finally retire and put this fanbase out of its misery.

  156. hunter1909 says:

    Glovjuice: MacT is well respected through the league.

    Fake news.

    MacT “the lucky Oilers getting MacT who can walk straight into a number of NHL head coaching jobs anytime he wants” then makes the AHL for a lousy one season.

  157. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: He played for Team Europe in the last World Cup, and not on a checking line.

    His shooting percentage is an anomaly this year, but he is playing with players for the most part are incapable of making a pass.

    If you look at Rieder’s primary assist rate, I believe it is still right there in the range for a middle six winger.

    His skillset is ideal for right wing with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins for a cap strapped team laden with dead weight in need of a cheap winger who can contribute there.

    You acknowledge he’s a middle 6 winger then put him on McDavid’s line. I dunno what else to say.

    Chia agrees with you. The rest of the hockey world, from analytics to seen ’em good disagrees.

  158. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909:

    4 names who can now be directly linked to over a decade of suck:
    Lowe
    MacT
    Howson
    Nicholson

    Why stop at those 4? Where is Joey Moss on the list? How about Jeff Lang?

  159. Halfwise says:

    Southern Oil:
    This blog is a daily read for me – multiple times in fact. However I only post about once or twice a year but still feel like I am a part of this community.That’s what makes this corner of the Al Gore so special.Lost a man’s best friend today.My 16 year old pooch passed away at home around 4 o’clock.Lost.Walking aorund looking for my dog.Sorry for the downer but I’m reaching out to all as a coping mechanism.I could use an Oil game tonight.

    Sorry for your loss, friend. The pet-shaped hole in our hearts takes a long time to get past.

  160. Caller Zen says:

    Bag of Pucks: If nothing else, maybe some of them will finally retire and put this fanbase out of its misery.

    Oh please I hope not – Kevin Lowe is only 59! Mactavish is 60 …Another 5 or 6 years of OBC will feel like 20.

  161. Bag of Pucks says:

    smellyglove:
    Has this blog decided yet how much independence Chiarelli actually had?

    His one major ‘new blood’ hire from outside the org has the surname Gretzky. Does that smell like autonomy to you?

    I don’t count Hitchcock cos he saw Chiarelli’s head on the chopping block and started lobbying for his seat in the post Petey regime from day one. His behaviour on After Hours was beyond transparent.

    Unfortunately for Hitch, he had the fans and media drinking the koolaid while the team was winning. Now? Not so much.

  162. Glovjuice says:

    texmex:
    Glass,

    Athanasiou is on pace for 31 goals/ 82 games played. JJ has 3 goals in 46 games and Reider has 0 goals this season.

    It will take much more than the 2nd + Kharia + Reider. Have to add Yamo or JP. I wouldn’t make that trade if I’m Detroit.

    Hilarious trade proposal. I assumed it was a joke.

  163. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bag of Pucks: His one major ‘new blood’ hire from outside the org has the surname Gretzky. Does that smell like autonomy to you?

    Considring that hire has previously worked for Chiarelli as an amateur scout and then his director of amateur counting, yes. Its in arguable that he was a “Chiarelli guy”? Not to me. I’m confident that Chiarelli would have been permitted to bring him in even if his last name was Mandelbom.

  164. Dicky94 says:

    Great interviews by Connor and Leon at the All-Star game on TSN. Gets me excited for the Philly game! I have a feeling they are going to prove all the naysayers wrong.

  165. Bag of Pucks says:

    OriginalPouzar: Considring that hire has previously worked for Chiarelli as an amateur scout and then his director of amateur counting, yes. Its in arguable that he was a “Chiarelli guy”?Not to me.I’m confident that Chiarelli would have been permitted to bring him in even if his last name was Mandelbom.

    One semi-senior exec guy of his own then. Not exactly regime change.

  166. Biggus Dickus says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yup, Nuge will likely need a raise but the cap inflation in two years will take care of that and the expiring contracts will create the oodles of cap space.

    Additionally, there are other options – perhaps Ryan McLeod with a year in the AHL and a year in the NHL is ready for that 3C role and we can save $5M (plus the $2M extra on Nuge’s new contract). Perhaps, in conjunction therewith, we sold Nuge at the prior deadline for a pretty damn good haul.

    I woudl posit the drafting outside the first round has been much improved the last few years and we no longer lag behind – too early to truly tell if that’s the case but its trending that way – look where Jones and Bear were drafted.Look at the arrows from all the players in the 2017 draft – we even have a 7th round pick playing an important role for a very good Team USA at the World Juniors.

    But other teams are getting guys too. If we pencil in a bunch of our B prospects, then we have to pencil in guys on the other teams as well. Our arrows are not nearly as good as other teams. This is reflected by our prospects being ranked in the bottom half of the league.

  167. OriginalPouzar says:

    Going to be a tough couple of games for the Condors in Tucson who are 23-11-3-1 and 2nd in the Pacific.

    With that said the Condors are rolling and got two plus offensive players in Yamamoto and Spooner (although the Roadrunners got Laurent Dauphin from the Coyotes.

    What is awesome is that the game tomorrow is at 7 (which is early) and the Saturday game is an afternoon game. Combine those times with the Oilers on break and I’ll be able to watch both in full. Lots to do on Saturday but, when one rises at 2:05am, it can all get done in the morning so the aft is free for some hockey!

    Go Condors!

  168. Glovjuice says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Exactly, there is fan fatigue setting in. Who wants to make the effort and take the overall cost to go to a game and see an uninspiring performance and another game over in the first few minutes? Especially with the team having no answer to Connor’s sag in performance which is I think related to Hitch’s style.

    Hitch has been wrong on how to use Connor. It’s not like all of the sudden teams are checking him.

    Shots are down, chip and chase isn’t the answer for his line. Uncreative.

    I live 20 minutes away and wouldn’t go if I had free tickets. And, I’ve been a season ticket holder in the past. Awful building, awful food and beer prices.

  169. Jaxon says:

    Munny: One would need to be certain that Bouchard isn’t a Duncan Keith level of player before trading him away.

    Would anyone do Bouchard for Parayko? Would something need to be added to either side? Any conditions? I think I’d do that.

  170. Glovjuice says:

    Munny: One would need to be certain that Bouchard isn’t a Duncan Keith level of player before trading him away.

    Thanks for this.

  171. BONE207 says:

    JimmyV1965: I’ve said this before, but the owner is literally leaving millions on the table for every playoff game they miss.

    With our assessment of the communication between different levels of management & coaching as well the seemingly disconnected asset evaluation, I would say this organization does everything under the table.

  172. Jaxon says:

    digger50:
    Dare I bring up Bouchard?

    He could be great. He could be soft and be a #5 d man. There is risk here.

    IF I had to bring up someone that we MUST look at moving, I would explore Bouchard and the second rounder.

    Keeps first rounder

    Add to the core with the addition of a 22 year old top line winger.

    I should have quoted the original post for this:
    Would anyone do Bouchard for Parayko? Would something need to be added to either side? Any conditions? I think I’d do that. Or for a winger? I think it’s safe to say that Bouchard is not a sure thing but his scoring and his draft position have a lot of weight in the NHL and he could get a decent return.

  173. Professor Q says:

    Jaxon,

    Why don’t we just hold pat for a while, and not do any major shakeups? Just as Bob is saying. Don’t trade prospects or 1st rounders, don’t mortgage the future, maybe do minor tweaks if they make sense.

    Bouchard can’t be lost to the expansion draft. Parayko would have to be protected, or exposed, the former of which meaning someone else would have to be exposed also.

  174. oilersfan says:

    If Bob Nicholson wants to improve the culture he definitely needs to fire Sparky Kulchisky and Barrie Stafforrd

  175. JimmyV1965 says:

    who: PC was fired for the Reinhart trade and the Lucic signing. And the desperation in season moves this year.
    Everything else was marginally good or bad depending on your biases.
    That’s how I see it anyways.

    I think the biggest indictment of Chia is the fact we are in cap hell with the worst team in the league, if it weren’t for McDavid. Please someone let me know if I’m being overly dramatic, but I feel this is the worst bottom nine forwards the Oil have ever assembled. This is truly an accomplishment. When a useful role player like JJ is your fourth best forward, that’s some kinda ugly. And I was on the fence with Chia to start the season!!! Tells ya what I know.

  176. BONE207 says:

    Sierra: Didn’t Hitch say last week that Jesse had hit the wall? Maybe they feel some downtime is best for him.

    How do you hit the wall playing 10 minutes (max) per night. If that’s the case, a conditioning stint is needed. Less Pizza…

  177. Professor Q says:

    Dicky94:
    Great interviews by Connor and Leon at the All-Star game on TSN. Gets me excited for the Philly game!I have a feeling they are going to prove all the naysayers wrong.

    “Can you talk about the GM situation?”

    “No, I don’t want to talk or think about it now. I just want to enjoy this experience and vacation. I’ll talk about it later.”

    *reporters proceed to ask very, very similar questions, walking a fine line, and even ask about the relationship between McDavid and Gretzky*

    I would not be able to remain as calm as Connor did through that annoying crap, and he even was showing a hint of annoyance even while humoring them.

    Even asking him if the team is letting him down personally (with inflection hinting that everyone else feels this way, or at least asked in a leading manner) was such an awkward thing to ask, and a weird pedestal projection that Connor is clearly uncomfortable with.

    Reporters are important but can absolutely be annoying. They don’t seem to really listen, ironically.

  178. Faustkarz says:

    digger50: Surprising comment. Veteran leadership group? By all appearances Connor and Patrick got along well. Who the heck is the veteran leadership group and just how do they influence the GM decisions?

    Just sounds like another “blame the players” tactic.

    Who do they vote out this year? Kind of running out of targets.

    Wasn’t “veteran leadership group” or a similar phrase referred to by Nicholson? May be an alias term used by those “in the know” to what we call the OBC?

    I could see Maroon not “bleeding blue and orange” and wanting to head back to STL as being a conflict with them. Maroon was sort of pushed around last season. McDavid also stated he preferred the same line or was against line blending as we call it (before this season or last idk). Maroon/McDavid duo was probably the most efficient Oilers team we have seen in awhile, at least when it comes to winning games; as well as with Lucic’s PPP. Crazy to think our best days were probably with Letestu in the ovie spot. Time flies.

    Someone mentioned Lucic as part of this veteran leadership group cause he sits at the head of the table or w.e. I doubt he sits on a high horse (or booster seat I suppose). I don’t think we give enough credit to Lucic (regardless of wanting out last season supposedly) as probably being a rock in the locker room goals or no goals.

    The OBC aren’t gonna kick themselves out. They want the success (managing/coaching), they had success (playing), failure (managing/coaching) is meaningless cause they have rings (playing). Real out of the box thinkers who want to go scorched earth on the management group isn’t exactly in their best interest. Hiring someone who has a distaste for the Oilers from playing days or through management would probably be best. Be hard for Katz to turn down Gretzky and co. and snuggle up with Burke. We wait as LT says.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiKx8lOEktQ
    OBC waiting til all star break to fire Chiarelli

  179. Dee Dee says:

    Caller Zen,

    Wait till the the positions get passed over to Keegan and Katz’s kid…

    In the year 2029, “the rebuild is coming along quite nicely and we will make the playoff’s soon, my Dad knew a thing or two about building a winner!”

  180. Glovjuice says:

    hunter1909: Fake news.

    MacT “the lucky Oilers getting MacT who can walk straight into a number of NHL head coaching jobs anytime he wants” then makes the AHL for a lousy one season.

    Wow, very weird, I don’t recall me posting this today. Is this copied from months/years back? Seriously, don’t even know where this post came from must have been from me a long time ago I guess.

  181. BONE207 says:

    leadfarmer: There’s a difference between not scoring and really not scoring.

    Is that like comparing bad luck at the bars to sitting at the computer eating cheezies?

  182. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    It’s interesting to see so many people harbouring this belief that successful sports franchises should run more like democratic corporations and less like autocratic dictatorships, when the reality is most of the dynastic franchises in sports have been a result of the latter model and not the former.

    There seems to be this belief that the OBC is the ‘smartest man in the room’ paradigm when in actuality what they are is a decision-by-consensus approach that stifles innovation and out-of-the-box thinking by pandering to conventional wisdom and groupthink lemming behaviour.

    The Oilers are like GM or IBM. Trading on past glories, entrenched complacent management, eroding revenue streams from habitual aging consumers. Hey, the jerseys are orange now. Look at us changing with the times!

    Hockey operations staffs are tiny compared to average corporate structures. IBM can hire a new CEO but the work they have to do reinvent systemic problems with staff, process and strategy is massive. By contrast, a sports franchise can hire a talented leader and they can reinvent the business almost singlehandedly within a single year IF they are given a green light to hire their own people and establish their own vision and processes. This is precisely why teams with talented leaders like Bellichick, Saban, Riley or Pollock can outperform the competition for decades despite annual turnover with the competition continually poaching their staff and players. This is precisely why outside one improbable Cinderella run, the Oilers have struggled ever since Sather left. One man (or woman) albeit the perfect person for the job is all it takes.

    Firing/scapegoating yet another puppet GM while signaling that the next hire must ‘fit with the culture’ is the equivalent of an IBM press release announcing business as usual at ‘Big Blue’ while the true innovators lap the field yet again.

    Darryl Katz excels at the game of ‘other people’s money.’ As a hockey club owner, he couldn’t be more inept. Robert Kraft is the current gold standard in pro sports ownership. Perhaps Darryl should take a cue from him and find a supremely talented leader who’s contributed hugely to championship teams while labouring in another’s shadow (ie Bellichick under Parcells). Who’s labouring unheralded in the shadow of Yzerman, Poile, Shero, Rutherford, etc. How about interviewing and finding that guy for a change? How about giving him an actual mandate, to hire & fire, to drain the swamp and drag this franchise into the 21st century?

    Ah, who am I kidding. This will never change in a market where there are no ramifications for failure. As long as we buy this crap, they’ll keep making it.

    Nice Post.

  183. Glovjuice says:

    Glovjuice: Wow, very weird, I don’t recall me posting this today. Is this copied from months/years back? Seriously, don’t even know where this post came from must have been from me a long time ago I guess.

    Wow, even more messed up. The post from me that I responded to above was this: Glovjuice: MacT is well respected around the league. Seriously. And no, no shrooms tonight. Just a few whiskey sours and codeine due to a headache. LT, any ideas ?

  184. YKOil says:

    Glovjuice: Wow, even more messed up. The post from me that I responded to above was this: Glovjuice: MacT is well respected around the league.Seriously. And no, no shrooms tonight. Just a few whiskey sours and codeine due to a headache. LT, any ideas ?

    Are you absolutely sure no shrooms were involved? Cuz’ that would explain it.

  185. Dicky94 says:

    Professor Q,

    He handled it really well. Made me proud to be an Oiler fan. We really are lucky to have such a player.

  186. JimmyV1965 says:

    I don’t get the anger toward Nicholson. As far as I can see, he actually hired a coach and GM with zero ties to the OBC. In fact, I think most people were praising him in this regard. He hired the wrong guys of course, but I thought he made an effort to reduce the influence of the OBC. I’ll certainly reserve judgement on the guy until we see who he hires next.

  187. Dicky94 says:

    YKOil,

    DMT?

  188. Lowetide says:

    Glovjuice: Wow, even more messed up. The post from me that I responded to above was this: Glovjuice: MacT is well respected around the league.Seriously. And no, no shrooms tonight. Just a few whiskey sours and codeine due to a headache. LT, any ideas ?

    Might have been someone quoting another post that you were involved in? Don’t know. Either way, you love MacTavish it’s pretty clear.

  189. BONE207 says:

    All this talk of : Something in the water.

    If there exists an OBC & Red Wine Summit group of people, I picture them in a Turkish Bath smoking cigars & having drinks. They can barely see each other due to the smoke & steam. All are talking hockey & future success. This goes on for hours without anyone leaving the room.

  190. JimmyV1965 says:

    Biggus Dickus: But other teams are getting guys too. If we pencil in a bunch of our B prospects, then we have to pencil in guys on the other teams as well. Our arrows are not nearly as good as other teams. This is reflected by our prospects being ranked in the bottom half of the league.

    I’ve heard Ray Ferraro and Frank Seravalli both criticize our prospect pool this week and I truly don’t know where this is coming from.

    We don’t have a lot of sexy prospects, but our farm system has never looked so healthy. In fact, we will have so many dmen prospects in the AHL next year there’s going to be a serious issue getting them ice time. I’m not even sure Caleb Jones is our best dmen prospect.

    We’ve actually got two guys in the top 5 rookie scoring leaders in the AHL, Benson and Marody. Now I’m not sure these guys are the real deal, but you can’t look at our prospects and say our pipeline is weak.

    IMO the national guys are only looking at big name prospects. They see Bouchard and that’s it. They actually don’t know how well our B level prospects are doing.

  191. pts2pndr says:

    Oddspell:
    Andy Dufresne,

    I have a hard time believing that re:Reinhart. What kind of GM/POHO makes moves he doesn’t want to make?

    And what veteran leadership group? I didn’t realise we had one back then.

    Lucic?

    Wasn’t Maroon at Eberle’s wedding?

    Don’t Burke and Lowe have a personal hate on for each other? Wouldn’t believe a word out of his mouth to be honest.

    The Edmonton group including Green and MacTavish were reported to have considered taking Reinhart as their number one overall. Yes I believe there was great pressure put on Chiarelli to make the trade to acquire him.

  192. Gret99zky says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yup, Nuge will likely need a raise but the cap inflation in two years will take care of that and the expiring contracts will create the oodles of cap space.

    They will likely have to overpay Nuge to get him to stay. He will have many desirable choices as a UFA.

    Same with Larsson.

  193. Biggus Dickus says:

    JimmyV1965: I’ve heard Ray Ferraro and Frank Seravalli both criticize our prospect pool this week and I truly don’t know where this is coming from.

    We don’t have a lot of sexy prospects, but our farm system has never looked so healthy. In fact, we will have so many dmen prospects in the AHL next year there’s going to be a serious issue getting them ice time. I’m not even sure Caleb Jones is our best dmen prospect.

    We’ve actually got two guys in the top 5 rookie scoring leaders in the AHL, Benson and Marody. Now I’m not sure these guys are the real deal, but you can’t look at our prospects and say our pipeline is weak.

    IMO the national guys are only looking at big name prospects. They see Bouchard and that’s it. They actually don’t know how well our B level prospects are doing.

    Maybe, but when I look around the league, I don’t have us outpacing everyone. I think this link is fairly accurate of where we stand. We’ll see. I also just want to say that we’ve been talking about how much improved our system has been since MBS became head scout, and Tambo signed Alexander Giroux to make the farm competitive.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nhl/news/nhl-top-prospects-best-worst-farm-system-draft-history-sabres-flyers-canucks-penguins/1bho4124nwrog1xk1q95ibejgj

  194. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jaxon: Would anyone do Bouchard for Parayko? Would something need to be added to either side? Any conditions? I think I’d do that.

    Please, would someone please thinks of the kids…. er, I mean, expansion draft….

  195. OriginalPouzar says:

    Professor Q:
    Jaxon,

    Why don’t we just hold pat for a while, and not do any major shakeups? Just as Bob is saying. Don’t trade prospects or 1st rounders, don’t mortgage the future, maybe do minor tweaks if they make sense.

    Bouchard can’t be lost to the expansion draft. Parayko would have to be protected, or exposed, the former of which meaning someone else would have to be exposed also.

    YES!

  196. OriginalPouzar says:

    BONE207: How do you hit the wall playing 10 minutes (max) per night. If that’s the case, a conditioning stint is needed. Less Pizza…

    Well, 12 minutes and change per game but, yes, he’s not getting McDavid ice time.

    Hitch’s comments about Jesse hitting the wall were made in relation to the tempo and intensity of the games ramping up at this time of year.

    Of course, he’s also mentioned about a third of the team hitting the wall at some point and, his actions with player deployment don’t jive with his words most of the time.

    I’m starting to believe that Hitch’s best skill is with the mic, not necessarily with respect to on-ice or preparation matters.

  197. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Might have been someone quoting another post that you were involved in? Don’t know. Either way, you love MacTavish it’s pretty clear.

    It happens ever once in a while on this site where you quote a post but the site actually quotes a separate post. A glitch.

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