Deja Vu

My friend Louise and I talked for hours about Sam Gagner during the first summer and fall he was an Oiler. I argued he should be sent back to junior, she argued he would overcome obstacles because he was a smart player. Turns out, Gagner stayed and posted 49 points as a rookie phenom. His career hasn’t turned out as planned, but he returns to Edmonton as age 29. Based on early returns, both fans and player are pleased to be reunited.

Oilers played well last night but it was another loss. I expect the next couple of weeks will see some wins and lots of goals from the captain. Can they get a save?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group. Outstanding offer is here.

  • New Lowetide: Cam Talbot’s Oilers career a disappointment save one beautiful spring.
  • New Jonathan Willis: Edmonton’s trade for Sam Gagner is a gamble well worth making.
  • Jonathan Willis: Inside the success of the Bakersfield Condors, and what it means for Edmonton
  • Lowetide: The Oilers sure have a lot of problems, but there is a simple solution.
  • Jonathan Willis: Taking stock of Oilers positives as they enter the final third of a dismal 2018-19 season.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Keith Gretzky on the Oilers trade deadline plan, Andrej Sekera’s return and Jesse Puljujarvi’s season
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ potential roster upheaval might set a record for summer activity
  • Jonathan Willis: Teams should beware of these players at the 2019 NHL trade deadline.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Will he stay or will he go? Possible trade destination for Cam Talbot.
  • Lowetide: Comparing Oilers prospects Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto
  • Lowetide: Is Ken Hitchcock helping Jesse Puljujarvi find his way as an NHL player?
  • Lowetide: It’s time for Oilers owner Daryl Katz to stand and deliver a winning organization.
  • Lowetide: Entry deal AHL forwards give the Oilers an excellent trade pool.
  • Lowetide: Finding a path to the playoffs may involve reckless use of future assets by the Oilers
  • Jonathan Willis: An Oilers blueprint for the 2019 NHL free agency period
  • Corey Pronman: 2019 NHL Draft midseason rankings
  • Jonathan Willis: An Oilers blueprint for the 2019 NHL trade deadline.
  • Lowetide: Edmonton’s 2019 entry draft plans may change with new GM but needs are clear
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects, Winter 2018

OILERS AFTER 58

  • Oilers in 2015: 22-30-6, 50 points; goal differential -28
  • Oilers in 2016: 31-19-8, 70 points; goal differential +13
  • Oilers in 2017: 24-30-4, 52 points; goal differential -33
  • Oilers in 2018: 24-29-5, 53 points; goal differential -25

OILERS IN FEBRUARY

  • Oilers in February 2016: 2-6-0, four points; goal differential -17
  • Oilers in February 2017: 4-4-0, eight points; goal differential -1
  • Oilers in February 2018: 1-6-1, three points; goal differential -5
  • Oilers in February 2019: 1-5-2, four points; goal differential -12

WHAT TO EXPECT FROM FEBRUARY

  • On the road to: Philadelphia, Montreal (Expected 1-1-0) (Actual 0-0-2)
  • At home to: Chicago (Expected 1-0-0) (Actual 0-1-0)
  • On the road to: Minnesota (Expected 0-0-1) (Actual 1-0-0)
  • At home to: San Jose (Expected 0-1-0) (Actual 0-1-0)
  • On the road to: Pittsburgh, Carolina, NY Islanders (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 0-3-0)
  • At home to: Arizona, NY Islanders, Anaheim (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • On the road to: Nashville, Toronto, Ottawa (Expected 1-2-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 7-6-1, 15 points in 14 games
  • Current results: 1-5-2, four points in eight games

DEFENSE, LAST NIGHT

  • Nurse-Russell were 13-6 in 10:37, 8-5 shots, no goals and 4-1 HDSC. Moving the puck out under control remains an issue, although Nurse’s passing has been more precise in recent days and Russell got a nice shot through on the Nuge goal. The pairing needs more skill and Sekera is close to returning. One hopes he’ll land here. Went 4-2 in 4:00 against Nelson-Lee-Eberle.
  • Klefbom-Larsson went 19-12 in 19:24, 8-7 shots, 0-1 goals and 3-4 HDSC. Klefbom got caught at the opposition blue on the 4-2 goal, Larsson left his feet on the pass across and was DOA. Went 8-4 in 7:31 against Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck.
  • Gravel-Petrovic were 6-9 in 9:01, 2-2 shots and 0-1 goals, 1-1 HDSC. Petrovic didn’t get over to cover on the Filppula tip, it was a nice play but could have been defended. Went 6-4 in 6:58 against Kuhnhackl-Barzal-Bailey. Gravel is criminally underrated on this team imo.
  • Mikko Koskinen stopped 19 of 23, .826.
  • NaturalStatTrick and NHL.com.

FORWARDS, LAST NIGHT

  • Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian were 11-1 in 9:54, 6-1 shots, 0-1 goals and 4-1 HDSC. McDavid was 14-7 in 13:07 against Pelech-Pulock.
  • Draisaitl-McDavid-Chiasson went 7-5 in 5:13, 3-4 shots, no goals and 2-2 HDSC.
  • Lucic-Brodziak-Kassian were 3-1 in 4:37, 2-0 shots and 1-0 HDSC.
  • Rieder-Nuge-Gagner were 5-2 in 3:30, 2-2 shots, 1-1 goals and 1-1 HDSC. Nuge was 2-5 in 4:39 against Leddy-Boychuk.

The Condors won again last night, 15 in a row and are absolutely on fire in the AHL’s Pacific Division. In the last 10 games, here’s what the scoring totals look like:

  1. Tyler Benson 10, 3-9-12
  2. Joe Gambardella 8, 7-4-11
  3. Josh Currie 10, 7-4-11
  4. Patrick Russell 10, 6-4-10
  5. Caleb Jones 10, 3-6-9
  6. Cooper Marody 10, 3-4-7
  7. William Lagesson 10, 1-6-7
  8. Logan Day 10, 0-6-6
  9. Dave Gust 8, 3-3-6
  10. Kailer Yamamoto 9, 3-2-5

Yamamoto is coming on (3-1-4 in his last four) but the real story is Benson. I expect the Oilers will keep this group together (sounds like Jesse Puljujarvi may be joining them) and a recall might come from the older group (Gambardella, Russell) but we’ll see.

KEITH GRETZKY AS GENERAL MANAGER

I’ve mentioned this a few times and will again this morning. I believe it is very possible Keith Gretzky is winning the general manager’s job at this time. Often when I make a statement like that, the reaction from commenters is that I’m endorsing. I’m not endorsing nor discouraging the idea, merely offering my observations on a team that has been fairly consistent in decisions over many decades.

My guess is the forensic search will include the universe of “known” candidates among people in the front office. You may think that’s everyone but my suspicion is there are all manner of qualified individuals who won’t get an interview.

Kelly McCrimmon checks all the boxes for the Oilers (scouting background, they’ll know him, he has a good reputation and is more media friendly than Peter Chiarelli), and there may be others (Hunter brothers, Ken Holland).

Bob Nicholson may eventually interview most or all, but in the meantime Keith Gretzky is handling things and the team is playing better. If they start winning? This idea will catch fire.

I think Bob Nicholson will find someone he’s comfortable with, someone the people he trusts believe will do a good job. I don’t think much time is going to be spent on building an analytics department or improving pro and European scouting. What about sports science? Sleeping patterns, ideal times to travel, resting overworked skaters and goalies.

I’ll give you 10 names: Kelly McCrimmon, Keith Gretzky, Mark Hunter, Ken Holland, Ron Hextall, Mike Gillis, Doug Armstrong, Dean Lombardi, Mike Futa, Steve Yzerman.

How many of these names are on Bob Nicholson’s list? How many not listed are on the Nicholson list? My belief, based on decades of observation, is the Oilers will hire someone from my list, make a big effort to say the right things, and then have everyone return to their office to go about doing things the same way as before.

What Oilers fans need is a general manager who will hire people smarter than him, give them authority and power, utilize their findings and implement good ideas. A good start would be hiring Tyler Dellow to run the real forensics department, while also creating a budget for staff under the analytics umbrella. Hiring Jeff Krushell for nutrition and sports science wisdom would also indicate progress. Further, making sure good ideas see the light of day and are put into practice is also key.

It can be done. The Boston Bruins are adding analytics staff on the hurry. I don’t believe the Oilers are committed to real change, a true overhaul. I would love to be wrong. We wait.

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308 Responses to "Deja Vu"

« Older Comments
  1. tileguy says:

    OriginalPouzar: Spooner was having a good stint in the AHL?Well, Sam Gagner had 37 points in 43 games – a good (and longer) stint in the AHL.To me that statement alone proves your willingness to stretch in order to meet your narrative.

    These assets were essentially equal – two former 2nd line/middle 6 NHLers relegated to the AHL and producing at that level with near identical contracts for their incumbent team. Yet somehow, Gagner isn’t worth a bag of pucks yet Spooner’s $3.1M contact should have been able to be disposed of and a pick coming back?

    You are right, more of these type of trades please.

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    OmJo:
    Stupid question, maybe, but is there a statistical correlation between a good AHL team and a good NHL team? Not sure what it would be based on myself, but I’m hardly a statistician.

    I don’t have a confirmed answer to this but my thought would be, probably not, and that it depends on how the succesful AHL team is built.

    Are the core players 25-30 year old AHL veterans or primarily “real prospects” – I would think that would have a big impact on the correlation.

    For the current Condors the following players are playing material roles:

    AHL Rookies – Lagesson, Marody, Benson (20 years old).

    AHL 2nd year players – Bear, Jones, Joe G. (24 years old mind you), Day.

    Of course, Keegan Lowe, Ryan Stanton, P. Russell, etc. are important players but the team is led in scoring by Benson and Marody and Jones, Bear, Lagesson are all very important members of the defence.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Bouch adds a goal, at evens – 4-0 London in the 1st.

    Bouchard with a second assist early in the second.

    Not half way through the game and he’s 1G, 2A, plus 2, 5 shots on net.

  4. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    OriginalPouzar: Bouchard with a second assist early in the second.

    Not half way through the game and he’s 1G, 2A, plus 2, 5 shots on net.

    Glad to hear Bouchard is still killing it in the OHL. How is he doing compared to Boquist? Hope Bouchard is eating his lunch! 😋

  5. JOFA says:

    Johnny Larue,

    I appreciate the response/banter. I feel for you having been a season’s ticket holder through this disaster. You definitely haven’t received your money’s worth the last 13 years and counting. I vehemently disagree that we shouldn’t lay any of this on Keith Gretzky’s lap. That would be completely irresponsible IMO. The correct thing to do is hold everyone responsible for this mess. What are the chances of that happening? Bob’s still here. That’s a tell.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    I hope this isn’t bad form but I am going to re-post this as I believe the “fear” of Gretzky getting full time GM role is catastrophizing based off of nothing substantive – nothing from the organization to suggest they are going to do anything but a fulsome search and even advice they will be asking for permission to speak with AGMs shortly.

    Not to mention, 4 days ago, Gretzky himself didn’t see like he considered himself a real candidate:

    —————————————-

    Around the 5 minute mark – https://www.tsn.ca/radio/edmonton-1260/audio/gretzky-management-needs-to-work-as-a-group-on-everything-1.1257310

    Gretzky when asked about the full time role:

    “Right now its as short term role. Bob’s going to expand in a few days/weeks to find the right guy for the organization. I’m here to help out in any way – whether its for another week or month or two months, that’s good to go for me.

    When asked what he would do If Bob came and offered the job:

    “We haven’t even gone there right now to be honest. We’re focused on moves to move forward right now.”

  7. hags9k says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    We always talk about the age of the AHL prospects being so important. I’d wonder if you could see a correlation between strong but young AHL teams and then the NHL teams in years +1, +2 etc.

    If the Condors were a bunch of old pros maybe we would not expect much of a bump in the NHL later, but this is a young team with as you say, the young guys driving the bus.

    There is hope in Shawshank.

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    tileguy: It was a good trade. Don’t think it was a hard thing to do. Would of liked a draft pick of any kind.

    You didn’t feel it was primary to get a goalie back in the Talbot trade?

    Are you in favor of Starrett, Wells or Skinner for the rest of the year?

  9. Bling says:

    Unlike others in the thread, I am cautiously optimistic that the next POHO/GM will be someone quite good.

    There are only 31 GM jobs, and how many of them come attached with 3 elite centres and three young top 4 D, two of whom are cost controlled? You have a lottery pick playing in junior, an AHL squad that has won 15 straight games, and another lottery pick to make this off-season. This is the type of gig that could easily turn into a cushy 10-15 year career.

    As for concerns with the OBC, the new POHO and GM can do to Bob, Lowe, MacT and Howson what may be even worse than firing them outright, and that is completely ignoring them and freezing them out of the decision-making process.

    Katz is going to lose a bunch of money this off-season, and I don’t think fools will be suffered any longer. JMO.

  10. JOFA says:

    Johnny Larue,

    …and I agree that the drafting has been “decent” the last 2.5 years, but the bar was set extremely low prior to KG. The miss on Debrincat still stings. Many smart people on this blog would have jumped at the opportunity to pick him. Sadly, the organization was reported to want to move up to grab Benson. Yikes. I know hindsight is 20/20, but Debrincat was a no brainer IMO. This is not a shot at Benson, but the young man has yet to play an NHL game. Alex would look mighty fine on McDavid’s wing no?

  11. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: –
    – the best take I read was it was a trade of a guy who for sure is no longer a nhl player for one who may still be.

    Which oneis which because Gagner matched Spooner’s point total as an Oilers in 18 less games……

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    tileguy: You are right, more of these type of trades please.

    I don’t think anyone is saying its a great trade and going to be a huge material benefit to the team.

    The responses you are receiving are due to your absolute vitriol towards the trade and the manager that made it which are really without reason – not to mention your tiresome aggressive posting nature that reeks of pretentiousness.

  13. JOFA says:

    Full disclosure: I had Bennett over Draisaitl
    *hides out of embarrassment*

  14. OriginalPouzar says:

    hags9k:
    OriginalPouzar,

    We always talk about the age of the AHL prospects being so important.I’d wonder if you could see a correlation between strong but young AHL teams and then the NHL teams in years +1, +2 etc.

    If the Condors were a bunch of old pros maybe we would not expect much of a bump in the NHL later, but this is a young team with as you say, the young guys driving the bus.

    There is hope in Shawshank.

    This is kind of what I was getting at in my post….

  15. Biggus Dickus says:

    Glovjuice:
    One again I have been proven correct. The Strome for Spooner trade effectively fucked (totally fucked) any hope of the playoffs. Playoff teams need a passible third line C last I heard. What a stupid team.

    But do they need a 3C more than they need an AHL winger playing in the top 6?

  16. JimmyV1965 says:

    JOFA:
    Full disclosure: I had Bennett over Draisaitl
    *hides out of embarrassment*

    I was a Drai guy, but no one can be faulted for liking Bennet. He was a great pick at the time. Not to offend anyone, but I find this constant grousing over individual draft picks annoying. Good drafting teams miss on picks all the time. But over the long term they have more hits than average. To criticize a team for not taking player A is disingenuous, verging on immature. Teams should be judged on their overall draft record, not because they failed to take someone’s pet pick.

  17. treevojo says:

    OriginalPouzar: not to mention your tiresome aggressive posting nature that reeks of pretentiousness.

    Well that’s not very nice……

  18. hags9k says:

    OriginalPouzar: This is kind of what I was getting at in my post….

    For sure, how do we measure it? Use LT’s age 20-21 AHL prospect of note rule and just tally pts scored by AHL team by season?

    I really want to believe the Condors’ success will end up being relevant.

  19. JOFA says:

    JimmyV1965,

    You do reserve the right to ignore it, or not comment on it if you find it so “annoying”. Commentary and judgment of how one chooses to express themselves in regards to the drafting of individual players is “verging on immature” no? Something to ponder 😉

  20. tileguy says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t think anyone is saying its a great trade and going to be a huge material benefit to the team.

    The responses you are receiving are due to your absolute vitriol towards the trade and the manager that made it which are really without reason – not to mention your tiresome aggressive posting nature that reeks of pretentiousness.

    Where you going on your next big vacation?

  21. --hudson-- says:

    Interesting look at teams draft performance. Notes from the creator:
    “To explain these plots a little, I grabbed the career games played and points of every active nhler who was drafted during the NHL Entry Draft. This means that these graphs don’t necessarily represent what these players did for the team they were drafted by, but it is an proxy for each team’s ability to see talent in a prospect pool. A look at which teams have the worst prospect development relative to their drafting quality would be interesting and is probably what I’ll look into next.”
    https://i.redd.it/86fohu8xf7h21.png

    Oilers top 10 in the league in the first round but they give it all back in the 2nd and 3rd round.

  22. gregsaint says:

    Ryan Strome with 4 points in his last 4 games. Points that would have made quite the difference on this last road trip.

  23. Sierra says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    The responses you are receiving are due to your absolute vitriol towards the trade and the manager that made it which are really without reason – not to mention your tiresome aggressive posting nature that reeks of pretentiousness.

    Interesting post coming from you

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sekera has officially been recalled.

    They will be cap compliant when they send down (or out) the d-man that Reggie will replace on the roster to get down to 23 – be it Gravel, Manning or Petrovic.I’m really excited to see how he does on Tuesday and over the remaining games – as I said, he was really good in Bakersfiled and was fantastic last night – so aggressive in neutral zone cutting off rushes, defending the gap at the blueline aggressively, calm with the puck, good passes and increasingly involved in the offensive zone.

    His mobility was a non-issue and seemed just fine to my eye.

    It remains to be seen if he can be as effective when the tempo and speed increases on Tuesday but so far all signs are great.

  25. VanIsleOil says:

    JimmyV1965: I was a Drai guy, but no one can be faulted for liking Bennet. He was a great pick at the time. Not to offend anyone, but I find this constant grousing over individual draft picks annoying. Good drafting teams miss on picks all the time. But over the long term they have more hits than average. To criticize a team for not taking player A is disingenuous, verging on immature. Teams should be judged on their overall draft record, not because they failed to take someone’s pet pick.

    yes..this…the what if’s become tiresome…..what if barzal,debrincat….and so on..pointless to obsess about the what if’s.

  26. deardylan says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    I don’t think anyone is saying its a…tiresome aggressive posting nature that reeks of pretentiousness.

    I just took a MAD magazine and folded your post…
    Im happy no one is saying that.

  27. Greenberg says:

    As for the AHL/NHL relationship, have a look at Toronto. They won the AHL title last season but even if they win the Cup this season (doubtful, yes, but possible) no one in their right mind will cite the AHL championship and its players as major contributors.

    To go one up on that, you folks who think Mark Hunter is a great GM candidate should pay more attention to what your counterparts say about him in the Toronto blogs. (Basically, he was great with first-rounders but dribbled off the floor in the later rounds.)

    For a bigger sample size, take the past 20 years. Is there a relationship between the past 20 years of AHL winners and good NHL teams? My guess is there is not, but I could be very wrong. (I will let someone else do the hard work on that one.)

    What do you care what the relationship is if you are getting one or two bonafide prospects ready to join your team in the fall every year?

  28. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Greenberg,

    Wasn’t it Mark Hunter who put together the most recent WJC team, actively choosing to not ice the best (on paper) team and instead carving out a team based on an identity of sorts?

    Yeah, he’ll fit in well with Oilers “culture.”

    Damn.

  29. Professor Q says:

    Oh man, this is amazing.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/NHLCanes/status/1097273216094089217?s=19

    If 2006 had gone the other way, maybe…

  30. russ99 says:

    JimmyV1965,

    Barring a trade I think we’re screwed in the top 6.

    Kassian is the only winger that seems to think the same way and at the same speed as Connor and Leon do but he can’t score.

    On odd man breaks, opposition doesn’t worry about Kassian, that’s cost us a bunch of goals.

    For Nuge the best bet seems to be Khaira and Puljujarvi, but Hitch doesn’t trust it and yanks Jesse off after a few shifts.

    Maybe Gagner as RW on that line? Grasping at straws, but that’s where we are.

    Also just for giggles, we should try RNH – Connor – Leon a few games, if nobody else is gonna score, jam them on one line. There’s our three goals a night,

  31. Bag of Pucks says:

    I’m starting to think that one of our posters is a paid shill for the OEG. It’s the only way his polyanna “everything is awesome!” vibe makes sense to me. That or prozac.

  32. Dee Dee says:

    It’s not the players.

    Vegas took a bunch of cast off dregs from all the other teams and were immediately competitive. Oilers have the best player in the world.

    It’s not the Coaches.

    10 coaches have all crashed and burned here since Katz bought the team. Oilers have gone through 2 coaches in less than a year and might be one to their 3rd very shortly.

    It’s not the General Manager

    The GM doesn’t make the goalie let the first shot in consistently. He doesn’t make the team take shorthanded goals during power plays or render entire lines of players unable to make or receive a pass.

    It’s not the Goalies

    Roloson, Garon, Deslauriers, Khabibulin, Dubnyk, Gerber, Danis, Scrivens, Fasth, Bachman, Brossoit, Bunz, Talbot, Nilsson, Montoya, Ellis, Koskinen , And Stolarz since Katz bought the team.

    That’s 17 goalies. In 11 years.

    The team does not play a defensively sound game and rarely plays with any sort of effort for any sustained amount of time.

    The Culture of the Edmonton Oilers is broken.

    The Drafting system is broken.
    The Scouting system is broken.
    The Trading/Evaluation system is broken.
    The Management is broken.
    The Owner is broken.
    The Player development system is broken.

    They brought in Hitchcock as a designated replacement coach knowing full well what he brought to the table. Now they are saying he’s too hard on players and doesn’t bring enough Positivity to the players.

    When the decision was made to Tank Endlessly after the last Stanley Cup finals run the prevailing wisdom was to lose for a bunch of years and collect a bunch of first overall draft picks and then magically start winning cups.

    All that the years of losing did was create a culture of losing in this organization. By not even attempting to be a little competitive they fast tracked players to higher salaries and forced them to play way above levels they should have been playing at.

    Sign competent low salaried veterans for the bottom of your roster which leaves enough room to keep a few extras and let them compete for playing time.

    Force the younger ones to dominate in the AHL and to learn how to play the system, learn how to defend. Make them fight tooth and nail to get a spot on the big team.

    Develop the Bouchards and Yamamotos and even the Puljujarvis right. Don’t look for the quick fixes.

    I don’t think its ALL doom and gloom, I give credit to Chiarelli for stocking the cupboards and starting to do things right.

    Clearing out Managment would send a signal to the players that a new day has dawned and things are different now and new prospective Leadership would actually seriously think about coming here.

    Or …. the next cycle of Groundhog Day starts and the team is doomed to repeat the cycle yet again.

  33. Darth Tu says:

    On the whole AHL team success translating to NHL success theme, the Syracuse Crunch seem fairly decent. They’ve only missed out on the playoffs twice since TB became their NHL parent club.

    I’m not digging into the math or looking at draft pedigree of players, but a simple look at the roster shows they have 15 players (4 with AHL only contracts) aged 23 or older that have played for the Crunch this season, with 13 aged 22 or younger.

    As a comparison Bakersfield have 14 players (5 on AHL only deals) aged 23 or older, and 9 players (1 on AHL deal – Polei) aged 22 or younger (not including Mantha).

    Bakersfield currently have 65 points, Syracuse have 64 points, both teams have played 49 games.

    I’m taking all of this from the teams wikis btw, so actual roster situation or numbers of players that have played might be really skewed due to crappy source of info.

  34. OriginalPouzar says:

    tileguy:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Where you going on your next big vacation?

    April 6 – Japan for two weeks.

    Thanks for asking.

  35. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: Spooner was having a good stint in the AHL?Well, Sam Gagner had 37 points in 43 games – a good (and longer) stint in the AHL.To me that statement alone proves your willingness to stretch in order to meet your narrative.

    These assets were essentially equal – two former 2nd line/middle 6 NHLers relegated to the AHL and producing at that level with near identical contracts for their incumbent team. Yet somehow, Gagner isn’t worth a bag of pucks yet Spooner’s $3.1M contact should have been able to be disposed of and a pick coming back?

    Weren’t you telling us all along that Spooner was just a coaching decision away from being a top 6 forward, and only the coach is holding him back
    Because of all the people you should be upset about this trade
    For most of us this is garbage out, stinkier garbage in
    But for you this should be Chia level incompetence

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    gregsaint:
    Ryan Strome with 4 points in his last 4 games. Points that would have made quite the difference on this last road trip.

    and his possession numbers remain in the 40-44% range, his GF% at 46% and his relative numbers all negative.

  37. Scungilli Slushy says:

    jp: We gained 33k cap space if both are bought out, I believe.

    Spooner’s buyout is 1.333M for 2 yrs, but the Rangers would have to pay their portion (0.9M/4.0M that they retained). So the Oilers/Canucks would be on the hook for a 1.066M buyout. Gagner’s buyout is 1.033M. Gagner is paid 50k more without buyouts. All of these difference are tiny, cap-wise.

    No one knows if the Oilers will keep Gagner for next season, I expect it depends on his play through April.

    My expectations for Gagner aren’t high, but the coach wasn’t going to play Spooner. I think Spooner probably gets his game back on track and is the better player going forward, but it’s also possible Gagner could be a 40-50 point player if the coach plays him in the top 6. If Spooner wasn’t going to get a chance in Edmonton, why not try a different look that’s essentially cap/buyout neutral?

    Getting these salaries off the books entirely would be great, but it doesn’t seem likely that was/is a realistic option.

    As noted, this trade is meh.

    Woodguy I think had some numbers around Samwise suggesting with the right players he’s helpful.

    He drove me nuts first go around with his poor D. But he can help at centre with defensive players, I think he’s a better option as RW with skill than anyone else there.

    Play him with Rieder at 3 C and maybe Khiaira as a third line that has some O, that sort of idea, or Jesse if he stays up.

    Or top 6 RW. He has a lot of skill and plays the boards better than the others with skill, sad but true.

    Next season perhaps he could Horcoff a kids 4th line with Benson and Joe or the like, have Cave maybe at 3C if he can show decent 2 way abilities.

    I expect Sam to be as motivated as he has ever been. He’s also not 34 like Brodz and far more skilled.

  38. Rebillled says:

    Here’s hoping great things when Sekera and Stolarz join this team.

    Here’s to miracles.

  39. OriginalPouzar says:

    Greenberg:
    As for the AHL/NHLrelationship, have a look at Toronto. They won the AHL title last season but even if they win the Cup this season (doubtful, yes, but possible) no one in their right mind will cite the AHL championship and its players as major contributors.

    To go one up on that, you folks who think Mark Hunter is a great GM candidate should pay more attention to what your counterparts say about him in the Toronto blogs. (Basically, he was great with first-rounders but dribbled off the floor in the later rounds.)

    For a bigger sample size, take the past 20 years. Is there a relationship between the past 20 years of AHL winners and good NHL teams? My guess is there is not, but I could be very wrong. (I will let someone else do the hard work on that one.)

    What do you care what the relationship is if you are getting one or two bonafide prospects ready to join your team in the fall every year?

    To be fair, the top scores for the Marlies last year were 29, 22, 31 and 34. The top d-man was 25.

    Of course the Condors are getting contributions from the likes of Currie, Malone, P. Russell, etc. but the team is being led by a bunch of 20-22 year olds in Benson, Marody, Lagesson, Jones, Bear.

    Not saying you are wrong by any stretch and I don’t believe there to be any sort of direct correlation but I do put some stock in to the fact that so many primary players for this really good team are 22 and under.

  40. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    I’m starting to think that one of our posters is a paid shill for the OEG. It’s the only way his polyanna “everything is awesome!” vibe makes sense to me. That or prozac.

    I assume you are talking about me – if so, clearly you haven’t been reading close enough given my posted thoughts on the Manning trade, Ken Hitchcock in general, Spooner’s treatment, the Koskinen signing (parts 1 and 2).

    I criticize each and every decision that I believe deserve it.

  41. Glovjuice says:

    Sierra: Is that really true though? Are people lamenting the loss of Spooner or the acquisition of Sam Gagner?

    No, they are lamenting the process, which, is incompetent. Don’t get caught in the weeds man.

  42. Scungilli Slushy says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Greenberg,

    Wasn’t it Mark Hunter who put together the most recent WJC team, actively choosing to not ice the best (on paper) team and instead carving out a team based on an identity of sorts?

    Yeah, he’ll fit in well with Oilers “culture.”

    Damn.

    It takes a truly unobservant hockey person to have watched World Junior losses and not get that it’s an allstar tournament and try to put an NHL type old school roster in, and fail again.

    Burgers could just find out who did the last one and cross them of the list ( there likely is no list) and bam easier process.

    He could also look at teams that trade quality skill for less, or from teams that are defensively oriented to the point that they cant win in playoffs and anyone from that org cross them off.

    I’m thinking of Fenton ditching Nederrieter (sp) and worsening his team. This lead me to wonder about the process he came from. That was ill advised

  43. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: Weren’t you telling us all along that Spooner was just a coaching decision away from being a top 6 forward, and only the coach is holding him back
    Because of all the people you should be upset about this trade
    For most of us this is garbage out, stinkier garbage in
    But for you this should be Chia level incompetence

    I posited that he had a history of producing at top 6 levels when played with top 6 linemates and the organization needed to give him a true chance to do so before disposing of him. I still believe that the organization failed in this regard and have posted the same in this thread.

    With respect to my thoughts on the trade, I would suggest you go back and read through them in this thread – I am not upset with the trade because of the return which, to me, is a player that has essentially just a good a shot as Spooner of contributing to the NHL team if given the opportunity.

    The coach was not going to play Spooner and definitely not in a position to succeed. Here is hoping that Gagner is put in a position to succeed with skill wingers – if not, its a fail on the coach once again.

    I am not upset about the trade (except remain disapointed that the org never gave Spooner a chance) because:

    1) Spooner was never going to be put in a position to succeed under this coach and, at the very least, we can be hopeful that Gagner will (given his “higher character”, i can see Hitch giving him more opportunity; and

    2) importantly, they did not buy the player out to divest of him nor retain salary – its a cap neutral transaction – a major concern of mine was how the org would divest of the contract given the coach wasn’t going to play the player

  44. Ryan says:

    OriginalPouzar

    Skill wingers? We have skill wingers? Who did we trade to acquire? 🙂

    Player aging curves are a real …. Ganger will be 30 at the start of next season. We turned a 25-year-old Strome into a 27-year-old Spooner into a 29-year-old Gagner. Hopefully next trade is for a red paper clip.

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

  45. Glovjuice says:

    OmJo: We have an excellent 3C. In fact the best C depth in the league.

    Which means nothing because wingers are easy find. Sigh.

    I know. its terrible. It’s fucked. Totally fucked. All we need is ONE more top six winger and we could run the best C depth in the league.

  46. Glovjuice says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: Absolutely fell in love with that song. Every note, every word, every nuance … perfection.

    Certainly is perfection. Stunning.

  47. who says:

    Bag of Pucks: So you like the Koskinen contract?

    No.
    I thought it was 1 year too long and 1 million too much. Kinda like the Russell signing. It also happened a month to soon.
    Are we blaming Gretzky for this signing?

  48. who says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Innate ability is part of it, but McDavid’s prowess is built on his training. His skating is practiced, stick handling, his shot was his priority last summer.

    Specific trainingcan develop the muscle that creates the power for those first steps that NHL players need to create separation. Checking is very tight, it’s vital. Always was, now it’s a necessity except for a few like Drai who are so smart they still score.

    Still it would take him to the next level, as in driving his own line better without top end help, and being able to play C and be effective 200 ft. I think his skating is what is causing the struggle with that.

    He comes back slow often seemingly gassed, and then cheats for O I think because he needs a head of steam to get up to speed.

    You described Drai perfectly. He certainly looks gassed at the end of shifts. I think it’s because it takes a lot of effort to move that body around. He’s not exactly light on his feet.
    But what if he has already maxed out his skating potential and this is as good as it gets?
    I don’t think Drai will ever be an elite skater, certainly not a burner.

  49. who says:

    JOFA:
    who,

    Pretty low bar IMO. He’s been part of this mess for 2.5. Years.He’s Pete’s hire. For that alone, he should have been fired. Get a real POHO and fire his ass, and the rest of the noodles immediately.

    I thought he was in charge of amateur scouting for the last two drafts. That would make him responsible for Yamamoto and Bouchard, and a bunch of decent mid round picks. Little early to pass judgement.
    Was he here for the 2016 draft?

  50. who says:

    JimmyV1965: We didn’t get rid of Spooner’s cap hit. Just changed names.

    That’s my point. The trade was cap neutral.
    I don’t think you could get rid of cap hit without a buyout or adding a sweetener.

  51. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ryan:
    OriginalPouzar

    Skill wingers? We have skill wingers? Who did we trade to acquire?

    Player aging curves are a real …. Ganger will be 30 at the start of next season. We turned a 25-year-old Strome into a 27-year-old Spooner into a 29-year-old Gagner.Hopefully next trade is for a red paper clip.

    https://hockey-graphs.com/2017/03/23/a-new-look-at-aging-curves-for-nhl-skaters-part-1/

    I don’t care about Strome (or Eberle) in relation to the Gagner trade – those are done and in the past and have no relation to current and future moves.

    I only defend the Strome for Spooner trade on the basis that I understood Chia’s premise – it was made in the name of acquiring offence on the wings, secondary scoring on the wings as Spooner had a higher history of production in the NHL than Strome and the then coach refused to play Strome on the wing in the top 6 and give that a real shot. Of course, we all know that the new coach didn’t give the trade a chance to work at all.

    With respect to the recent trade yes, as I’ve been very express about, I would have preferred given Spooner an actual chance to succeed and produce as an Oiler but we know that wasn’t going to happen with the current coach so, given the circumstances, and the limited ways to get rid of Spooner without a cap penalty or retention, the trade makes sense to me.

    Now its up to the coach to give the trade a chance and put the newly acquired player in a position to succeed – given his “high character” I think he may just, for a change.

  52. Glovjuice says:

    Woogie63: Thanks for your comments.
    I am thinking different than Ryan Smith the Player Intergration person would probably be a European that speaks a few languages.They would help with stuff young man or young families worry about when they move half way around the world.The help would come by way of language skills, connecting with the community, finding a house, getting a bank, driver licence, connecting with the spouse so they have company in a new strange remote cold city.

    Remote ! LOL. Seriously? Remote? Come on man.

  53. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: No.
    I thought it was 1 year too long and 1 million too much. Kinda like the Russell signing. It also happened a month to soon.
    Are we blaming Gretzky for this signing?

    It was two months too early as well.

    Also, given the way he’s played since December, its much more than $1M too much, potentially around $3M too much…

    This contract has the potential to be the most damaging move by Chia as it relates to the next few years – yes, including the Lucic signing and every thing else.

  54. JimmyV1965 says:

    The Norfolk Admirals put together an outstanding 28-game winning streak in 2012. The big-name NHL players who graduated from the team include Tyler Johnson, Andre Palat, Radko Gudas, Alex Killorn, Richard Panik, Mark Barberio and Corey Conacher.

    That was a team for the ages. I’m not sure what people will think of the list of NHL players. I think it’s pretty impressive. Others might disagree.

    The Condors will likely not graduate this many players, but their 15-game winning streak is extremely impressive. I might be wrong, but I believe 18 is the second longest streak in all of pro hockey.

    Both the Condors and Admirals were led by young guys, mixed with some vets as well. Interesting note, Johnson played two full seasons in the AHL despite posting great numbers both years. He was wasn’t called up until the end of his second season.

    None of this means anything I guess. Just thought it was interesting.

  55. flyfish1168 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Bouchard with a second assist early in the second.

    Not half way through the game and he’s 1G, 2A, plus 2, 5 shots on net.

    impressive, but wish it was against a stronger team

  56. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    who,

    He posted a faster time than Hall at the Oilers skill competition for fastest skater (in 2014, I believe). If that’s his top gear, I’m fine with him having reached his skating potential. Of course, that’s not to say I don’t think he can get faster, smoother, etc.

  57. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t care about Strome (or Eberle) in relation to the Gagner trade – those are done and in the past and have no relation to current and future moves.

    I only defend the Strome for Spooner trade on the basis that I understood Chia’s premise – it was made in the name of acquiring offence on the wings, secondary scoring on the wings as Spooner had a higher history of production in the NHL than Strome and the then coach refused to play Strome on the wing in the top 6 and give that a real shot. Of course, we all know that the new coach didn’t give the trade a chance to work at all.

    I don’t think that’s being honest though.

    We’ve been looking for a new Eberle ever since we traded Eberle. So Strome and Spooner are related to Eberle and Gagner. They’ve literally been traded for each other.

  58. Ryan says:

    OriginalPouzar: It was two months too early as well.

    Also, given the way he’s played since December, its much more than $1M too much, potentially around $3M too much…

    This contract has the potential to be the most damaging move by Chia as it relates to the next few years – yes, including the Lucic signing and every thing else.

    Maybe the league could add a three pack of amnesty buyouts that could be added as a prize in the draft lottery.

    The winning team could choose to use all 3 or trade individual amnesty buyouts for assets.

  59. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Ryan,

    Interesting idea!

    Perhaps as a consolation to the teams that lose position in the lottery. Say one amnesty buyout per position lost.

  60. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: Ya, I thought is was a mishandle and a fluke when I was watching it live. Seeing the replay (they don’t show replays in real time on AHL TV very often) I guess he could have done it on purpose although I really doubt it.

    Kailer has been playing very well the last 3-4 games – all over the puck, creating chances, creating turnovers – essentially doing everything but finish.The coach has been express they are working on him with his finish – I don’t imagine he goes to that move at that time.

    Could be wrong.

    Either way, I’m still excited to see the speed and the pull-away speed – something he has been criticized for lacking.

    Agreed, if he can display/improve pull away speed he will make it as a top 2.5 line player. Needed badly at this 22 pick.

  61. JOFA says:

    who,

    Yes I’m guessing that’s all he does, and MacT & Lowe are ambassadors that just take selfies and greet the fans😉

  62. Bag of Pucks says:

    OriginalPouzar: I assume you are talking about me – if so, clearly you haven’t been reading close enough given my posted thoughts on the Manning trade, Ken Hitchcock in general, Spooner’s treatment, the Koskinen signing (parts 1 and 2).

    I criticize each and every decision that I believe deserve it.

    I’m curious as to why you’d assume it’s you?

  63. deardylan says:

    Deja Vu or VuJa De?

    As i look through the HockeyDB redrafts of last 10 years i get the feeling of VuJa De when Oilers mis-selected.

    The generational picks are a given yet the other ones are an art.

    If we look at the 2019 redraft in 2029 who will be there and in what order? Imagine if a GM can figure out how to redraft before they actually draft.

    Dubois was a VuJaDe redraft pick and Columbus GM knew it.

  64. Biggus Dickus says:

    Bag of Pucks: I’m curious as to why you’d assume it’s you?

    Short man syndrome.

  65. who says:

    JOFA:
    who,

    Yes I’m guessing that’s all he does, and MacT & Lowe are ambassadors that just take selfies and greet the fans

    I just don’t have the energy to speculate on all the terrible things he’s been doing.
    I will rate him on the moves he influences or controls based on his job description. If you have inside info on something else he’s done feel free to share it with the group.

  66. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965:
    The Norfolk Admirals put together an outstanding 28-game winning streak in 2012. The big-name NHL players who graduated from the team include Tyler Johnson, Andre Palat, Radko Gudas, Alex Killorn, Richard Panik, Mark Barberio and Corey Conacher.

    That was a team for the ages. I’m not sure what people will think of the list of NHL players. I think it’s pretty impressive. Others might disagree.

    I would hope all would think that’s impressive. I’ve never really heard of one AHL team graduating that many players lets along that many absolute impact players – that may be the best collection of future NHLers on one AHL team of all time.

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    OmJo: I don’t think that’s being honest though.

    We’ve been looking for a new Eberle ever since we traded Eberle. So Stromeand Spooner are related to Eberle and Gagner. They’ve literally been traded for each other.

    SUre but that’s not really my point. My point is that the acquisition cost of a player should have no bearing on acquired player – his use/deployment or his potential re-trade in the future.

    Eberle being the acquisition cost for Strome was totally irrelevant when Strome was traded for Spooner and Strome was irrelevant when Spooner was traded for Gagner.

  68. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: SUre but that’s not really my point.My point is that the acquisition cost of a player should have no bearing on acquired player – his use/deployment or his potential re-trade in the future.

    Eberle being the acquisition cost for Strome was totally irrelevant when Strome was traded for Spooner and Strome was irrelevant when Spooner was traded for Gagner.

    Except when the entire time you are just trying to get back to the original player you traded

  69. leadfarmer says:

    I think Yamamoto will be a 40-50 point Viktor Arvidsson lite and coach favorite

  70. JimmyV1965 says:

    I don’t think too-end speed is an issue for Drai. The issue is more likely maintaining that speed for a long shift. And I suspect this will likely have a bigger impact on defence. This is speculative, but the Drai line spends a lot of time in the ozone. They get a lot of ozone starts. By the time he has to rush back to the dzone, he may often be half gassed already.

  71. OmJo says:

    leadfarmer: Except when the entire time you are just trying to get back to the original player you traded

    That’s essentially my point, yeah.

    OriginalPouzar: SUre but that’s not really my point.My point is that the acquisition cost of a player should have no bearing on acquired player – his use/deployment or his potential re-trade in the future.

    Eberle being the acquisition cost for Strome was totally irrelevant when Strome was traded for Spooner and Strome was irrelevant when Spooner was traded for Gagner.

    But why not? Strome was literally acquired to replace Eberle… All of these assets are linked at the end of the day. The team traded down in every sequence. If the team saw it my way, Strome and Spooner would have both been given shots in the top six. So seeing it the way you suggest has proven detrimental to the team, no?

    I think the organization does see it that way… and that is how Jordan Eberle becomes Sam Gagner.

  72. Darth Tu says:

    OmJo: That’s essentially my point, yeah.

    But why not? Strome was literally acquired to replace Eberle… All of these assets are linked at the end of the day. The team traded down in every sequence. If the team saw it my way, Strome and Spooner would have both been given shots in the top six. So seeing it the way you suggest has proven detrimental to the team, no?

    I think the organization does see it that way… and that is how Jordan Eberle becomes Sam Gagner.

    I eagerly await the acquisition of Eberle and Yak this summer, then Taylor Hall at the end of next season. Finally, the band will all be back together.

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: Except when the entire time you are just trying to get back to the original player you traded

    The acquisition cost of a player is still meaningless with respect to every path forward the second after the deal is done.

    Not to mention, if the Oilers had this year’s version of Jordan Eberle it would be yet another contract where the player is vastly out performing his cap hit.

    Eberle is having a bad season. Poor box cars, poor posession numbers, poor goal share numbers, poor relative numbers – $6M.

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965:
    I don’t think too-end speed is an issue for Drai. The issue is more likely maintaining that speed for a long shift. And I suspect this will likely have a bigger impact on defence. This is speculative, but the Drai line spends a lot of time in the ozone.They get a lot of ozone starts. By the time he has to rush back to the dzone, he may often be half gassed already.

    I think this is all a function of cummulative minutes played over the course of the season.

    I have seen Drai finished long hard shifts very strong countless times – I even remember specifically commenting on it during his breakout season when he was playing with Hall – when they were fire, Drai was finishing long shifts as hard as he started them.

    I don’t think his style on its own leads to the inability to finish shifts hard but that he’s played so many minutes and so many hard minutes (i.e. PK minutes) that his body is run down – there are very few McDavid freaks that can continue playing those types of minutes through the entire season.

  75. rope-a-dope says:

    I agree with Woodguy and others that it was disheartening to hear strong talk of culture and character during the Nicholson avail.

    However on the contrary, a couple of things that I hope and believe could drive some realistic change in this team:

    1. Nicholson, he made a significant miscalculation in his initial hiring of Chiarelli, it seems he understands this and at least sounded accountable (rather than blaming others). If he makes another mistake this time around, his legacy will be one of absolute failure and squandering the talent of the best hockey player in the game. And at 65, he will not get another shot. Winning a couple of Stanley’s though would be the icing on the cake of a nice career.

    2. Darryl Katz, no question that revenues will be going the wrong way soon if they aren’t already. I have stopped watching and basically just check NHL.com. In the past I have been to plenty of games as a single game purchase or in the secondary market, no chance of that now and anecdotally season ticket holders are electing not too renew as this thing simply isn’t worth the money. I suspect that they have viewership metrics that tell them people are stopping watching too. You hear that Edmonton fans are too dedicated thus enabling this poor quality team, however I think this trend is changing. If Katz wants this to remain a lucrative venture, then changes are needed.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    OmJo: That’s essentially my point, yeah.

    But why not? Strome was literally acquired to replace Eberle… All of these assets are linked at the end of the day. The team traded down in every sequence. If the team saw it my way, Strome and Spooner would have both been given shots in the top six. So seeing it the way you suggest has proven detrimental to the team, no?

    I think the organization does see it that way… and that is how Jordan Eberle becomes Sam Gagner.

    Clearly I also felt that Strome and Spooner should have been given a shot in the top six. My thoughts on Spooner in that regard have been posted repeatedly over the last few months and, with respect to Strome:

    https://www.coppernblue.com/2018/7/19/17589192/a-fix-for-the-top-6-youll-be-surprised

    At the same time, that has nothing to do with the fact that Strome was traded for Jordan Eberle – it simply had to do with roster construction at the time – sure, if was partially a function of the Stome/Eberle trade but my thoughts on Strome and Spooner would have been exactly the same if they were acquired for draft picks and Eberle was dealt away in an entirely separate transaction.

    Strome was traded for Spooner – doesn’t mean Spooner should have been tried at 3C.

  77. Bruce McCurdy says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    For the current Condors the following players are playing material roles:

    AHL Rookies – Lagesson, Marody, Benson (20 years old).

    Last nght’s overtime winner: Marody (Benson, Lagesson)

    All playing 3v3 overtime. that’s what I call “material roles”.

  78. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think this is all a function of cummulative minutes played over the course of the season.

    I have seen Drai finished long hard shifts very strong countless times – I even remember specifically commenting on it during his breakout season when he was playing with Hall – when they were fire, Drai was finishing long shifts as hard as he started them.

    I don’t think his style on its own leads to the inability to finish shifts hard but that he’s played so many minutes and so many hard minutes (i.e. PK minutes) that his body is run down – there are very few McDavid freaks that can continue playing those types of minutes through the entire season.

    Makes sense. I was just speculating really. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that 25-year-old Drai will be much better defensively than 22-year-old Drai. And I think this is mostly what people are concerned about when they discuss his speed.

  79. YKOil says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think this is all a function of cummulative minutes played over the course of the season.

    I have seen Drai finished long hard shifts very strong countless times – I even remember specifically commenting on it during his breakout season when he was playing with Hall – when they were fire, Drai was finishing long shifts as hard as he started them.

    I don’t think his style on its own leads to the inability to finish shifts hard but that he’s played so many minutes and so many hard minutes (i.e. PK minutes) that his body is run down – there are very few McDavid freaks that can continue playing those types of minutes through the entire season.

    This is where I sit as well. Too many minutes. Even for McDavid. This idea that we will just play our best forwards 20+ minutes a night (22+ for McDavid and Drai) every night is not sound.

    We aren’t making the play-offs so lets get our shit together and try to build players up (speaking specifically of Puljujarvi there).

  80. Sierra says:

    leadfarmer: Weren’t you telling us all along that Spooner was just a coaching decision away from being a top 6 forward, and only the coach is holding him back
    Because of all the people you should be upset about this trade
    For most of us this is garbage out, stinkier garbage in
    But for you this should be Chia level incompetence

    Yup

  81. Sierra says:

    Glovjuice: No, they are lamenting the process, which, is incompetent. Don’t get caught in the weeds man.

    Yes that was my point…the acquisition of Samwise

  82. Glovjuice says:

    leadfarmer: Except when the entire time you are just trying to get back to the original player you traded

    And, also when it is so clear that the team you cheer for is failing process wise over and over and thus bleeding talent/assests with each subsequent move – downgrading in a step-wise fashion. OP, I’m stunned you can’t step back and see it from a little higher level with your brain power level.

  83. Scungilli Slushy says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    who,

    He posted a faster time than Hall at the Oilers skill competition for fastest skater (in 2014, I believe).If that’s his top gear, I’m fine with him having reached his skating potential.Of course, that’s not to say I don’t think he can get faster, smoother, etc.

    Top speed isn’t what I was referring to. Most of the game is stop starts and acceleration. Drai is a heavy legged skater and isn’t heavy enough for his weight to make him that way.

    It’s all technical and was in his draft report. He’ll never be graceful but a little quicker and smoother would let him use his brains more and he’d be fresher

  84. Glovjuice says:

    Sierra: Yes that was my point…the acquisition of Samwise

    Ok, got it. Misinterpreted.

  85. thehop says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    He’s a narcissist in case you haven’t been following along.

    Two years of travelling and workout updates. He and the gentleman packpacker should have a beer sometime, when they aren’t travelling, or working out or updating the internet on their every thought and feeling.

  86. Scungilli Slushy says:

    At the end of the day Eberle Strome Spooner and Gagner aren’t top 6 or even NHL quality at all. At least Eberle can score. They should have just kept him it seems. Although they have 3 M in cap now. But no 1RW

  87. thehop says:

    Wait a minute…..

    Original pouzar is the gentleman packpacker

    The original packet is DSF

    DSF is….. the Antichrist

    It all makes sense now

  88. JimmyV1965 says:

    thehop:
    Bag of Pucks,

    He’s a narcissist in case you haven’t been following along.

    Two years of travelling and workout updates. He and the gentleman packpacker should have a beer sometime, when they aren’t travelling, or working out or updating the internet on their every thought and feeling.

    That’s pretty harsh. Not sure if it’s needed.

  89. Sierra says:

    JimmyV1965: That’s pretty harsh. Not sure if it’s needed.

    When one refers to someone as “posting nature that reeks of pretentiousness” they are going to be called out about their incessant posting about their wake up time, gym routine, diet, travels, first class air travel and Shanghai La hotel stays. It fits the definition of narcissism perfectly.

  90. YKOil says:

    How dare he use the word ‘pretentiousness’ in a sentence that still tries to make a point!

    The horror!

  91. YKOil says:

    Evan Rodrigues, a RH winger of interest to me. Will add it to my Kevin Gravel and Nick Jensen pile.

  92. thehop says:

    JimmyV1965,

    Go Oilers Go

    Not sure if that’s needed either but I say it anyway.

  93. London Jon says:

    Ducks and Devils win and we move into a lottery spot. Ouch.

    A little more of this clever covert sliding and we could lock up one of the top 4

  94. texmex says:

    London Jon,

    Aren’t all 15 teams that miss the playoffs in a lottery spot?

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    We may find out today which d-man is going to be re-assigned in order to make room for Sekera – each of Gravel, Manning and Petrovic would need to go on waivers in order to be re-assigned to the Bake.

    I do worry that it will be Gravel but he has been playing lately over Manning. Gravel would very likely get claimed which would be too bad given I think we could get a C prospect or mid-low round pick for him. Manning would undoubtedly clear and he’s been the healthy scratch lately. Petrovic has played a bit better lately (still lost his man in front on the NYI tip goal) – he could get claimed given he’s got an expiring contract.

    The best situation would be to actually trade Manning out but I don’t imagine a team take him without the Oilers retaining close to 1/2.

    As an aside, speaking with Kurt Leavins last night and he believes from his people that Gravel will be re-signed. That would be great – I was always on board with re-signing Gravel as some cover for and competition for the near NHL ready prospects for the 3rd pairing next year (Lagesson, Jones, Bear, Bouchard, Persson).

    I thought that ship had sailed given Manning is on the books for next year – I mean where are all those guys going to play – need to add in Samorukov, Lowe has one more year, Day is likely to be signed to an NHL contract, etc.

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sierra: Yup

    Explained multiple times.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    Glovjuice: And, also when it is so clear that the team you cheer for is failing process wise over and over and thus bleeding talent/assests with each subsequent move – downgrading in a step-wise fashion. OP, I’m stunned you can’t step back and see it from a little higher level with your brain power level.

    There isn’t really anything to suggest here that the Oilers are downgrading from Spooner to Gagner.

    Gagner has had better NHL production this year and, over the last 3 years, their production in the NHL is almost identical (see Willis: The Athletic).

    Given the current coach was not going to play Spooner, much to my chagrin, the trade makes sense and, frankly, given the many the felt Spooner should be bought out – not taking a dead cap hit and acquiring a player with some potential to help, should be considered a win.

    The last few series of trades on this does show an organizational fail – more on the coach than the GMs though.

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    thehop:
    Bag of Pucks,

    He’s a narcissist in case you haven’t been following along.

    Two years of travelling and workout updates. He and the gentleman packpacker should have a beer sometime, when they aren’t travelling, or working out or updating the internet on their every thought and feeling.

    Uh oh – someone on the internet doesn’t like me…….

    Given this community does frown upon personal anecdotes…. oh wait, quite the opposite….

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Its fine all – lots of people on the internet don’t like me – I will still get on with my day.

    Of course, I’ve had 4 community members reach out to me asking for nutrition and fitness tips and another looking for tips on travel to Sri Lanka so it seems even those narcissistic posts have value for some.

    I do appreciate those that “have my back” but lets move on – its leg day!

  100. jp says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Woodguy I think had some numbers around Samwise suggesting with the right players he’s helpful.

    He drove me nuts first go around with his poor D. But he can help at centre with defensive players, I think he’s a better option as RW with skill than anyone else there.

    Play him with Rieder at 3 C and maybe Khiaira as a third line that has some O, that sort of idea, or Jesse if he stays up.

    Or top 6 RW. He has a lot of skill and plays the boards better than the others with skill, sad but true.

    Next season perhaps he could Horcoff a kids 4th line with Benson and Joe or the like, have Cave maybe at 3C if he can show decent 2 way abilities.

    I expect Sam to be as motivated as he has ever been. He’s also not 34 like Brodz and far more skilled.

    Gagner certainly COULD be useful, it’s how likely that is. And the same can be said for Spooner.

    Spooner had the better NHL season in 17-18. Gagner was better in 16-17. It will be interesting to see how they do going forward.

    I’m not holding my breath on Gagner being much of a contributor, but it’s definitely possible, and there are holes there for him to fill.

  101. Todd Macallan says:

    OP, your positivity has kept me going from a hockey perspective on many a dark day. Don’t ever change.

  102. texmex says:

    Would anyone here do the following trade or something similar?

    To Ottawa
    2019 1st Round Pick
    Lucic
    Bear, Jones or another young D Propect

    To Edmonton
    Mark Stone (resigned at 8.5)
    B level propect or 4th Round pick

    Just curious. I think Ottawa desperately wants a high first round pick given the situation they are in, and I wonder if there’s a way to make something happen.

    But with the expansion draft………….who knows.

  103. Wilde says:

    texmex:
    Would anyone here do the following trade or something similar?

    To Ottawa
    2019 1st Round Pick
    Lucic
    Bear, Jones or another young D Propect

    To Edmonton
    Mark Stone (resigned at 8.5)
    B level propect or 4th Round pick

    Just curious. I think Ottawa desperately wants a high first round pick given the situation they are in, and I wonder if there’s a way to make something happen.

    That’d be an absolute steal for us, franchise-changer. I don’t know why OTT does it considering that price should be the price for a signed Stone without Lucic attached

    (e: Given that our first isn’t top-2)

  104. Wilde says:

    The Athletic’s Scott Wheeler released his top-62:

    https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/450909/yegor-afanasyev

    – I think he’s the only guy I read that has Podkolzin in the area that I’d have him (15-25)

    – The second, third, and fourth clip of Nils Höglander are filthy, nutty fakes and hands (yes I’m going to shill for this player as hard as I did for Farabee)

    – I’m also with him on Kokkonen

    – I like Bobby Brink, Arthur Kaliyev, Connor McMicheal and Nic Robertson more, and Newhook + the
    USNTP players less than he does

  105. texmex says:

    Wilde,

    True. My logic is that when / if Stone is traded to Winnipeg (or other contender), they will most certainly get a 1st round pick back which will be anywhere from 16th-31st overall in a draft which isn’t very deep allegedly.

    In taking Lucic, they get a pick anywhere from 1-5 overall. Ottawa take on Lucic’s contract for 3 years up until Ottawa is ready to compete, then buy him out.

    The old sign and trade never happens, just a pipe dream.

    With that said, if we draft 1-5, keep it, draft and develop and wait another 3 years for the kid to be ready.

  106. HT Joe says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I do appreciate those that “have my back” but lets move on – its leg day!

    Fantastic! As one of the site’s all stars, don’t ever change!!

  107. tileguy says:

    OriginalPouzar: There isn’t really anything to suggest here that the Oilers are downgrading from Spooner to Gagner.

    Gagner has had better NHL production this year and, over the last 3 years, their production in the NHL is almost identical (see Willis: The Athletic).

    Given the current coach was not going to play Spooner, much to my chagrin, the trade makes sense and, frankly, given the many the felt Spooner should be bought out – not taking a dead cap hit and acquiring a player with some potential to help, should be considered a win.

    The last few series of trades on this does show an organizational fail – more on the coach than the GMs though.

    The trade does not make sense. Sam Gagne is not a solution to nothing, well maybe one thing, he might put of few bums in the seats for nostalgic reasons. Why would KG waste his time at this important juncture of the season making a sideways move at best?

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