Photographs and Memories

It goes by so damned quickly. One day you’re trying to figure out how to pronounce Dragan Umicevic and the next minute you’re wondering if Jesse Puljujarvi has played his last game as an Oiler. Get ready for a summer of sale on sail on.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group. INSANE NEW OFFER IS HERE!

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers have another problem to solve: Lifting the cloud over a clearly frustrated Connor McDavid
  • New Lowetide: What’s going on with Connor McDavid’s with or without you numbers?
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: The four blows that set up the knockout of the Oilers from playoff contention.
  • New Jonathan Willis: The Oilers’ failures of 2018-19 will cost people their careers.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Chipped teeth, playing DJ and lots of Game of Thrones: A week in the life of Darnell Nurse.
  • New Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto’s first pro season a cause for concern.
  • Lowetide: The Edmonton Oilers and the giant talent pool that is the USHL.
  • Lowetide: How the Oilers can shop for a big bang on a small budget
  • Jonathan Willis: How the Oilers can turn their prospect depth into the blueline of a contender.
  • Lowetide: What Mark Hunter’s draft record in Toronto means for his Oilers GM candidacy.
  • Lowetide: The Oilers made a rare move and shopped the QMJHL at the 2018 draft. It could happen again.
  • Lowetide: The Edmonton Oilers draft early, the WHL is loaded and there’s a lot of history.
  • Lowetide: The Edmonton Oilers and the OHL.

OILERS AFTER 80

  • Oilers in 2015: 30-43-7, 67 points; goal differential -42
  • Oilers in 2016: 45-26-9, 99 points; goal differential +32
  • Oilers in 2017: 34-40-6, 74 points; goal differential -39
  • Oilers in 2018: 34-37-9, 77 points; goal differential -32

OILERS IN APRIL

  • Oilers in April 2016: 1-1-0, two points; goal differential -1
  • Oilers in April 2017: 1-1-0, two points; goal differential -1
  • Oilers in April 2018: 1-1-0, zero points; goal differential -2
  • Oilers inApril2019: 0-2-0, zero points; goal differential -6

WHAT TO EXPECT IN APRIL

  • On the road to: Vegas, Colorado (Expected 0-2-0) (Actual 0-1-0)
  • At home to: San Jose (Expected 0-0-1) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • On the road to: Calgary (Expected: 1-0-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 1-2-1, three points in 4 games
  • Current results: 0-2-0, zero points in 2 games

LAST NIGHT

MOCK DRAFT!

If the season ended today, Edmonton would choose No. 8. For the early picks, I’ll use Craig Button’s list as the bible and my list as a guideline.

  • No. 8 overall—RC Kirby Dach, Saskatoon Blades (WHL). Dach falling to No. 8 seems unlikely, but Button has him No. 15. Dach would be a perfect fit for the current Oilers. He’s big, fast, skilled, RHC, has impressive reach. He would need some time to mature, he would need to establish he can stay healthy, and I bet every team that talks about him wants him to shoot more.
  • No. 39 overall—R Maxim Cajkovic, Saint John (QMJHL). Explosive speed and highly skilled, his rankings are all over the map. Nolan Foote is also available in this range, but I like the speedster, he can play either wing.
  • No. 88 overall— F Samuel Fagemo, Frolunda (SHL). I am going to keep listing him until someone drafts him. Great shot, quick release.
  • No. 101 overall —R Dmitri Sheshin, Magnitogorsk (MHL). Pure goal scorer, about the size of Yvan Cournoyer when he was 17.
  • No. 163 overall— L Nando Eggenberger, Oshawa Generals (OHL). Two-way talent, enjoying a solid year in the OHL (he was eligible last season).
  • No. 194 overall—L Brooklyn Kalmikov, Cape Breton Screaming Eagles (QMJHL). Good skater, some skill, good hands and he’s quick. May 2001

JESSE PULJUJARVI

I’ve been thinking about JP lately, he was in town not long ago and it reminded me of just how many things went sideways in 2018-19. Even in a season when a franchise misses the playoffs, progress can be made.

Jesse Puljujarvi’s season was not successful. I blame the Edmonton Oilers. Why? In all three seasons of JP’s career with the team, he has spent time in both Edmonton and Bakersfield. In total, Puljujarvi went 53, 15-22-37. In the NHL, he played 139 games, 17-20-37. His 5-on-5 per 60 over the three seasons? 1.14 per 60. His 5-on-5 per 60 with Connor McDavid? 2.06, as per NTS.

You know, I’ve watched these kids come from the cities and the farms over many decades, and am always struck by the blind faith placed in hockey men during such an important development time. One thing I hope? If you have a son who is eligible to be drafted by an NHL team, know your options and find good representation. Let this be the Oilers last Puljujarvi. I am sick to death of this.

SAIL ON, TYLER DELLOW

Dammit all, anyway. This is beyond maddening.

CONNOR MCDAVID

Oilers fans should be thrilled with Connor McDavid’s recent comments and public frustration. If the captain can take Katz from “Holland and Keith Gretzky” to “Mr. Yzerman, come out to the coast, we’ll get together, have a few laughs!” then he will have done all breathing Oilers fans an enormous favor. We wait.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, we celebrate a beautiful day and have some very cool guests. TSN1260, scheduled to appear:

  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey at the Edmonton Journal. Bruce has done the ‘next morning’ summary many times on the Lowdown, not sure how much he’ll have to say about last night. Never worry, we’ll chat all things Oiler.
  • Jonny Campbell, OddsShark.com. Final Four basketball, MLB early trends.
  • Marshall Ferguson, TSN1150 Hamilton. The Alliance crashes, what does it mean to the CFL?

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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285 Responses to "Photographs and Memories"

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  1. Andy Dufresne says:

    Dellow hired to run Analytics dept for NJ Devils.

  2. 36 percent body fat says:

    Lowetide why are the oilers signing vessey and larkin how have never shown any signs of nhl ability and skill and not guys from CHL with high NHLE. Skylar Brindamour is another, why?

    Nicholas Guay should be a guy they look at late in the draft or signing if he doesnt get drafted.
    Parker Aucoin, needs to work on skating but he scores goals and is a local kid.

    There should be an analytics person dedicated to finding the guys, or young players out of allvensken with high NHLE, or players like Perssons

  3. Andy Dufresne says:

    Greg Wyshynski
    ESPN

    “The New Jersey Devils have hired Tyler Dellow, one of the pioneers in hockey analytics, as their vice president of analytics and the head of their new hockey analytics department.”

    “Since day one, [owners] Josh Harris and David Blitzer have supported us by investing in the staff and resources it takes to build a team, the right way,” Devils general manager Ray Shero said. “We have used those resources to recruit talented people who can increase our organization’s expertise in every aspect of the game. Bringing Tyler on board is just another example of our commitment to progressively building in a manner that can help the franchise achieve sustained success.”

  4. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    RB on ON with the right take: 97 needs to be in on the new GM.

  5. 36 percent body fat says:

    Sam Fagemo for sure, as per my comment above, he should have been identified last year. Could have been had for a 7th

  6. 36 percent body fat says:

    Lowetide I blame oiler and Puljijarvi agent on this,

    It is clear that he was going to stay in finland, and the negotiated 40 games in the NHL to burn a year. Why, do what best for the player not the paycheck, a full year in finland or bakersfield would have been best.

  7. LMHF#1 says:

    Chelios is a Dinosaur:
    RB on ON with the right take: 97 needs to be in on the new GM.

    Correct. Or at least Orr does.

    I hope if nothing else, this year has taught #97 that he’s going to have to do some of that work too. It’s truly unfortunate…Gretzky had Sather and didn’t really need to worry much…they’ve left McDavid without that. You can tell he also doesn’t really want to have to be involved…but that’s the reality at this point.

  8. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Here are the 15 best goalies, by SV%, save average against “expected”, % of quality starts:

    Ben Bishop
    Andrei Vasilevskiy
    Robin Lehner
    Darcy Kuemper
    Anton Khudobin
    Thomas Greiss
    Jack Campbell
    Frederik Andersen
    Carey Price
    Matt Murray
    Jordan Binnington
    Jaroslav Halak
    Pekka Rinne
    John Gibson
    Laurent Brossoit

    Here are the 15 worst goalies by SV%, save average against “expected”, % of quality starts:

    Jonathan Quick
    Martin Jones
    Keith Kinkaid
    Cam Talbot
    Cam Ward
    Aaron Dell
    Chad Johnson
    Antti Niemi
    Calvin Pickard
    Roberto Luongo
    Craig Anderson
    James Reimer
    Joonas Korpisalo
    Mikko Koskinen
    Alex Stalock

    – What I see here is a bunch of G’s on the top list that play for good teams, and a bunch of goalies that play for bad teams on the bottom list.

    – I also many goalies in the top list who have played on poor teams in the past and were not good, and a lot of goalies on the bottom list who once played on good teams and were good.

  9. leadfarmer says:

    Chelios is a Dinosaur:
    RB on ON with the right take: 97 needs to be in on the new GM.

    That is a terrible idea

  10. Professor Q says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Greg Wyshynski
    ESPN

    “The New Jersey Devils have hired Tyler Dellow, one of the pioneers in hockey analytics, as their vice president of analytics and the head of their new hockey analytics department.”

    “Since day one, [owners] Josh Harris and David Blitzer have supported us by investing in the staff and resources it takes to build a team, the right way,” Devils general manager Ray Shero said. “We have used those resources to recruit talented people who can increase our organization’s expertise in every aspect of the game. Bringing Tyler on board is just another example of our commitment to progressively building in a manner that can help the franchise achieve sustained success.”

    Once again Edmonton could have been ahead, but ends up behind, the curve.

    Now they’re way, way, way behind.

  11. ArmchairGM says:

    Congratulations to Tyler!

  12. jtblack says:

    Why did Dellow ever leave the Oilers in the first place?

    Well maybe Edm can recognize the importance of Analytics and develope their own deparment; before 2028 …

    Sail on Dellow! Good Luck

  13. Darth Tu says:

    leadfarmer: That is a terrible idea

    What, you don’t think that Connor can carry the team on his back, be Captain, Head Coach, GM, and POHO all at the same time?

  14. Professor Q says:

    jtblack:
    Why did Dellow ever leave the Oilers in the first place?

    Well maybe Edm can recognize the importance of Analytics and develope their own deparment;before 2028 …

    Sail on Dellow!Good Luck

    Edmonton didn’t renew his contract prior to the 2016-17 season.

    Could have tried building the department around him and improved everything but I think he was basically by himself since 2014. Not a lot of support, and a few Edmonton media personnel had anti-statistics and anti-analytics pieces and rants during that time.

    Maybe he was against the Taylor Hall trade and the higher-ups didn’t like the “nerd being uppity”?

  15. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sounds like Stolarz has a knee injury which is why they’ve been riding Koskinen so hard.

    Of course, they could call up a goalie from the AHL – I’m guessing they didn’t want to disturb the Condors and Starrett as they head in to the strech run for the playoffs but a couple extra games for Wells would have been fine – they’ve clinched a playoff spot (although not the division).

  16. dustrock says:

    Guarantee you Hall put in a good word for Dellow.

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    I remain convinced that there is nothing good that will come from a Puljujarvi trade.

    Yes, of course, his development to this point has been disapointing – the organization has material fault in this regard but Jesse and his camp may have some culpability depending on what exactly his agent “demanded” as far as NHL games (to burn ELC’s, UFA year’s of services and reduce the waivers exemption threshold from 5 years to 3). If there were demands, nope the organization didn’t have to agree but perhaps Puljujarvi’s camp was unwilling to sign without a soft assurance.

    Anyways, that is niether here nor there any more, we are where we are.

    Jesse’s trade value is clearly at a low point and a return for a straight up trade will be underwhelming, I’m sure.

    At the same time, this is a 20 year old kid that is still growing in to his body, still maturing, still acclimating and, as we know, MANY prospects “pop” in their 21 and 22 year seasons. Maybe he never become a 70 point guy but there is still every possibility he becomes a top 6 winger or, at least, a middle 6 guy.

    He won’t be in the minors this year so just give him a role, be it a top 6 winger or a middle 6 winger, but give him consistent linemates and consistent PP time and just let him play.

  18. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lotto Race

    Anaheim: At Home to Calgary and Los Angeles

    NYR: Home to Ottawa and Columbus On the Road to Pittsburgh

    Vancouver: On the Road to Nashville and St Louis

    Edmonton: At Home to San Jose On the Road to Calgary

    Vancouver on a 3 game win streak beating Los Angeles, Dallas and San Jose.

    Anaheim has won 2 of its last 3. The one loss was with Miller in net on the front end of back to backs.

    Hot goalies rule the day. Markstrom and Gorgiev and Gibson are HOT.

    Conclusion: Picking 6th (pre lottery) is still a possiblity.

    Highest probability is still picking 8th.

    Rangers have 3 games left, Anaheim 2 games left.

    Path to 6 is Oilers lose both remaining games; Anaheim wins one of its two remaining games; NYR win 2 of it 3 remaining games.

    If Edmonton wins 1 game, its almost certain to pick 8th.

  19. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Betting on the Oilers is like continuing to double down on traditional energy stocks and claiming that renewables will never be cheap enough. Markets change. Leagues change.

    This org is built to win in the 80s when ‘expert’ opinion was the best evidence around. Now that we have better evidence available, those clinging to the old way simply lose. And look spectacularly stupid in the process.

    I live in Victoria but will never abandon my hardworking, neighbour-respecting values and that includes loving my team. I hold no allegiance to the current org however. Heads need to roll. Bring in Deloitte, KPMG, Boston consulting. It’s actually no hard to fix a business with cash-flows like this one.

    Be a bloody businessman, Mr. Katz. You bloody clown.

  20. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilers fans should be thrilled with Connor McDavid’s recent comments and public frustration. If the captain can take Katz from “Holland and Keith Gretzky” to “Mr. Yzerman, come out to the coast, we’ll get together, have a few laughs!” then he will have done all breathing Oilers fans an enormous favor. We wait.

    ———————————————-

    I am fine with Connor’s comment – nothing wrong with what he said/did, not at all.

    I am worries about the possible implications. I don’t believe they will lead to a Yzerman type hire – I don’t believe they will change who the organization hires in management at all. What I fear is that it will create an extremely expedited mandate for the new management regarding playoffs next year.

    That will come with buyouts, trading material futures to get rid of contracts, using the new cap space on older UFA acquisitions, etc. Sure, it may make the team better next year but has a high likelihood of capping the potential of the team and vastly hurting the team’s ability to actually contend in the medium term.

    Paying to get rid of Russell and Manning, etc. – bleeding assets to get rid of contracts that fall away within a couple of years – I don’t like it, I don’t like it at all.

  21. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Professor Q:

    Could have tried building the department around him and improved everything but I think he was basically by himself since 2014. Not a lot of support, and a few Edmonton media personnel had anti-statistics and anti-analytics pieces and rants during that time.

    – This is the Oil way: no guy on his own is going to make a difference. If you hire an analytics guy, you don’t do it to tick a box: you make part of a culture

    – When you hire a GM, he’s not on is own going to make a difference. When they hire the next GM, it’s not to tick a box and say: “we got a better GM”: you have to give the new GM the tools to suceed

    – Tyler didn’t succeed because the rest of the organization didn’t change. If we bring in a new GM and don’t change the organization, he won’t succeed….

    – When Bob insists that the next GM has to fit in, and further insists that the previous GM was able to make changes, when clearly nothing substantive did change: it’s pretty easy to project what will happen: we will get the “smartest” GM available, and like Dellow and Chia, he will fail because the organization won’t change

  22. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Andy Dufresne:

    If Edmonton wins 1 game, its almost certain to pick 8th.

    Maybe we’ll get lucky, the win the lottery, and it’ll fix all of our problems.

    Oh wait…..

  23. russ99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I remain convinced that there is nothing good that will come from a Puljujarvi trade.

    Yes, of course, his development to this point has been disapointing – the organization has material fault in this regard but Jesse and his camp may have some culpability depending on what exactly his agent “demanded” as far as NHL games (to burn ELC’s, UFA year’s of services and reduce the waivers exemption threshold from 5 years to 3).If there were demands, nope the organization didn’t have to agree but perhaps Puljujarvi’s camp was unwilling to sign without a soft assurance.

    Anyways, that is niether here nor there any more, we are where we are.

    Jesse’s trade value is clearly at a low point and a return for a straight up trade will be underwhelming, I’m sure.

    At the same time, this is a 20 year old kid that is still growing in to his body, still maturing, still acclimating and, as we know, MANY prospects “pop” in their 21 and 22 year seasons. Maybe he never become a 70 point guy but there is still every possibility he becomes a top 6 winger or, at least, a middle 6 guy.

    He won’t be in the minors this year so just give him a role, be it a top 6 winger or a middle 6 winger, but give him consistent linemates and consistent PP time and just let him play.

    It’s done.

    New coach and new GM doesn’t have any attachment to old GM’s picks.

    The team threw him under the bus in the media about his injury. Even if his workout habits played a part, you can’t blame the player you’ve spent the better part of three years screwing up.

    He won’t go to Bakersfield and now can’t due to waivers, and he’s an RFA, his agent holds the cards.

    If I were his agent, I’d say trade or KHL.

    The only hope is if the front office is swept and the new GM/coach have a word.

    We can’t waste NHL sorties on developing players that aren’t developed anymore. Had he put up a season in the A like Benson, there would be a chance for him to come back.

  24. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Western Conference Playoff Standings using Points Percentage shown as points over/under fake Bettman .500

    Pacific
    CGY 27
    SJS 17
    VGK 13

    Central
    WPG 16
    NSH 16
    STL 15

    Wildcard
    DAL 11
    COL 8

    Out of playoffs
    ARI 4
    MIN 3
    CHI 1
    VAN 0
    EDM -3
    ANA -4
    LAK -11

    COL needs one point in their last two games to seal ARI’s fate. ARI needs to win both of their last 2 game in regulation.

    Aint gonna happen.

    Seeding in Central is the only thing interesting now.

  25. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Eastern Conference Playoff Standings using Points Percentage shown as points over/under fake Bettman .500

    Atlantic
    TBY 44
    BOS 25
    TOR 19

    Metropolitan
    WSH 22
    NYI 19
    PIT 17

    Wildcard
    CAR 15
    CBJ 14

    Out of playoffs
    MTL 14
    FLA 4
    PHI 2
    NYR -4
    DET -6
    BUF -8
    NJD -10
    OTT -17

    CBJ has 3 more ROW than MTL. CAR has 1 more ROW than MTL.

    Games remaining:

    CAR: vs. NJD, at PHI
    CBJ: at NYR, at OTT
    MTL: at WSH, vs TOR

    MTL is in tough as they lose a tie to CBJ and need CAR to lose their last two to beat them in a tie, but they beat TBY last night so who the hell knows. Fun to watch this come down to the wire.

    Relevant Wildcard Games tonight: None

  26. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    1 OTT -17
    2 LAK -11
    3 NJD -10
    4 BUF -8
    5 DET -6
    6 ANA -4
    7 NYR -4
    8 EDM -3
    9 VAN 0
    10 CHI 1
    11 PHI 2
    12 MIN 3
    13 ARI 4
    14 FLA 4
    15 MTL 14

    EDM “wins” ties vs NYR via ROW and vs ANA vs season head to head record if ANA ties ROW (EDM has one more ROW today)

    Game remaining:

    NYR: vs OTT, vs CBJ, at PIT
    ANA vs CGY, vs LAK
    EDM:vs SJS, at CGY

    There’s a reasonable chance that ANA goes at least 1-1-0 in their last two to end at -4 while EDM goes 0-2 and finished -5 for 7th place.

    To get 6th they’d need NYR to go 1-1-1 at least if they go 0-2

    note: edited for NYR having 3 gp left, not the 2 I initially stated.

    The bogey is SJS.

    1-8-1 in their last 10.

    Jones has been worse than Koskinen lately with a .890 since March 1st and Dell is worse with a 0.868

    Koskinen is .909 since March 1.

  27. JimmyV1965 says:

    Chelios is a Dinosaur:
    RB on ON with the right take: 97 needs to be in on the new GM.

    If I was McDavid and the team asked me to wade into the GM hire, that’s when I get even more worried.

  28. BONE207 says:

    In this day & age, for a sports Disorganization to be without an analytic department seems archaic. Back in January when it looked like the wheels were starting to fall off, I thought that if I were the owner, I would have created a shadow management team. That way if you had to clean house, you could be up & running to a certain degree.

    If some of the existing staff wanted in, they would have to reapply fir a job. Then I thought about creating a template on how to construct such a management system that perhaps you could sell to other organizations.

    For the Oilers, this process will take so long, they’ll burn another CONNOR year even if they get it right. Sad thing is, all the teams that we currently **spit** on, we are adding this Oilers team to that collection. How twisted is that for a fan base?

  29. ArmchairGM says:

    Andy Dufresne: Conclusion: Picking 6th (pre lottery) is still a possiblity.

    Picking 5th is also still a possibility.

  30. Andy Dufresne says:

    Admiral Ackbar: Maybe we’ll get lucky, the win the lottery, and it’ll fix all of our problems.

    Oh wait…..

    If there is one organization that benefits the most from Bettmans Planned Parity its the Edmonton Oilers.

    Gary has either wittingly or unwittingly played a major role in saving this organization twice now.

    Once during the Pocklington/Edmonton Investors Group era. And now (presumptivley) in the Decade of Darkness.

    The McDavid Mulligan, The Salary Cap, The Bettman Points, and The Lottery, have all aligned to give this organization an opportunity that didnt exist as little as a decade ago.

    We live in an era where you can be Krappo and still get Kakko. You can refuse to win and they’ll give you Quinn. OR put another way tou can be determined to lose and they’ll gift you Hughes.

    As LT put it last night “Hockey is Wierd”. But its a sign of the times, you get a blue ribbon, and you get a blue ribbon, and you get a blue ribbon. EVERYONE gets a blue ribbon.

  31. Andy Dufresne says:

    russ99: It’s done.

    New coach and new GM doesn’t have any attachment to old GM’s picks.

    The team threw him under the bus in the media about his injury. Even if his workout habits played a part, you can’t blame the player you’ve spent the better part of three years screwing up.

    He won’t go to Bakersfield and now can’t due to waivers, and he’s an RFA, his agent holds the cards.

    If I were his agent, I’d say trade or KHL.

    The only hope is if the front office is swept and the new GM/coach have a word.

    We can’t waste NHL sorties on developing players that aren’t developed anymore.Had he put up a season in the A like Benson, there would be a chance for him to come back.

    His agent will almost certainly implement a full court press to get him traded to another team.

    His box cars this year 46gms 4g 5a 9pts -14

    I’m not sure about trading him as you would be selling low, but keeping him carries a ton of risk as well. If you keep him and he has even a so-so year (33% improvement = 17pts x 1.33 = 23pts), which is a high probability, his trade value will be minimal.

    Whereas moving him now packaged with Lucic IS significant value/return.

    IMO most mgt teams evaluation / calculus would show this as a net gain. Especially teams with a GM that has no responsibilty for having drafted him.

  32. JimmyV1965 says:

    Admiral Ackbar:
    Betting on the Oilers is like continuing to double down on traditional energy stocks and claiming that renewables will never be cheap enough. Markets change. Leagues change.

    This org is built to win in the 80s when ‘expert’ opinion was the best evidence around. Now that we have better evidence available, those clinging to the old way simply lose. And look spectacularly stupid in the process.

    I live in Victoria but will never abandon my hardworking, neighbour-respecting values and that includes loving my team. I hold no allegiance to the current org however. Heads need to roll. Bring in Deloitte, KPMG, Boston consulting. It’s actually no hard to fix a business with cash-flows like this one.

    Be a bloody businessman, Mr. Katz. You bloody clown.

    This might not be the best analogy. It’s like saying we should adopt the technology that may allow us to win 50 years from now. The only places that use renewables are jurisdictions where Ill-informed politicians interfere in the process, kinda like the OBC.

  33. Andy Dufresne says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    NYR have 3 games remaining

  34. Ben says:

    Before they add speed or skill or grit or character or coke machines or waterbugs or what-have-you, the org needs to focus on adding one thing: intelligence.

    Intelligence in terms of raw ability to assess, strategize and action, and intelligence in terms of data.

    Personally, I get zero impression that the people in charge of adding intelligence are intelligent enough to recognize intelligence even if it intelligenced them right in the backside.

  35. Andy Dufresne says:

    ArmchairGM: Picking 5th is also still a possibility.

    True.

    Detroit coould win its 2 remaining games against Pittsburgh and Buffalo.

    AND they just beat Pittsburgh in Detroit. 4-1

    SO theres a chance.

  36. godot10 says:

    Chelios is a Dinosaur:
    RB on ON with the right take: 97 needs to be in on the new GM.

    That is not particularly a good idea. Only indirectly through his agents.

    McDavid through his agents should be reading Katz and Wayne the riot act.

    McDavid has to do his job. Do you expect him to be POHO too, which is what Brownlee is asking him to do.

  37. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    russ99,

    – YOu and LT are probably right: this is the guy wea re giving up for a 3rd rounder, or packaged up:

    McD: ““The goal he scored on the power play, I zipped it in there on his backhand, and sometimes that’s a tough play when you’re going full speed. He handled it perfectly and got off an amazing shot.

    “He has another gear. He’s just got another step. He must have had a good summer.”

    Hitch: “I don’t want to see anything different. I just want to let him play with the puck. I like a lot of the stuff he does. I especially like a lot of the stuff, he makes little plays really, really well in the offensive zone,”

    Coach: ““You watch the practices, he stands out amongst everyone,” “I don’t think he’s really realized how big and strong he is and how powerful of a skater he is. He’s impressive to watch.”

    If Puljujarvi starts scoring consistently, he’ll have a strong case to be on one of the Oilers top two lines. For now, he’ll continue to skate with Strome and Jujhar Khaira.

    “He’s older. He’s more comfortable. He understands the language. He’s gone from a boy to a man,” McLellan said. “Part of the comfort is knowing what line he’s going to be on.”

    Also: this is a good reminder of what the pre-season means to project performance: All of Rattie, Jessi and Kailer looked like they “belonged”. Talbot was looking great: F$ck pre-season:

    https://www.nugget.ca/sports/local-sports/edmonton-oilers-continue-to-roll-through-the-pre-season-with-trouncing-of-canucks/wcm/5297e296-ed66-456e-b320-34a4042490f7?video_autoplay=true

  38. godot10 says:

    jtblack:
    Why did Dellow ever leave the Oilers in the first place?

    Well maybe Edm can recognize the importance of Analytics and develope their own deparment;before 2028 …

    Sail on Dellow!Good Luck

    Chiarelli did not renew his contract.

  39. Reja says:

    russ99: It’s done.

    New coach and new GM doesn’t have any attachment to old GM’s picks.

    The team threw him under the bus in the media about is injury. Even if his workout habits played a part, you can’t blame the player you’ve spent the better part of three years screwing up.

    He won’t go to Bakersfield and now can’t due to waivers, and he’s an RFA, his agent holds the cards.
    If I were his agent, I’d say trade or KHL.

    We can’t waste NHL sorties on developing players that aren’t developed anymore.Had he put up a season in the A like Benson, there would be a chance for him to come back.

    Keith needs to dump cap space just like the Bruins post Pete. If the relations between the two parties is iffy or worse you might see Jesse in a trade with one of our cap dump players.

  40. Andy Dufresne says:

    The Calgary Flames sat two top forwards and four top defensemen (one night after winning the Pacific Division and securing home-ice advantage throughout the Western Conference playoffs.) and they still steamrolled the Los Angeles Kings 7-2 and chased Johnathan Quick who allowed 7 goals on 25 shots.

  41. hunter1909 says:

    Has there ever been a team like this? Last night’s collapse was almost as epic as a McDavid to Draisaitl uber-goal.

    Outstanding Panzer Management worthy of the 3rd Battle of Kharkov!

    On to April 9!

  42. godot10 says:

    Admiral Ackbar:
    Betting on the Oilers is like continuing to double down on traditional energy stocks and claiming that renewables will never be cheap enough. Markets change. Leagues change.

    Renewables don’t scale or won’t scale. Renewables are made of stuff. When they are a marginal source of energy, the amount of stuff that they are constructed out of is at the margin. When you try to scale them, it won’t be at the margin, and finding the stuff will be hard.

    Rare earths, used for wind, are not exactly rare, but are typically found only amongst weakly radioactive rock. When one attempts to scale rare earth production, one is going to produce massive amount of weakly radioactive waste rock.

    This problem has not been noted by Western environmentalists, because the waste rock problem and the radioactive lakes it produces are all in China.

    Rare earth mines have a tough time being built anywhere else because of the low level radioactive waste.

    And solar is going to require a lot of silver and copper. Good luck with that.

    And with solar and wind, one is still going to need massive breakthroughs is battery technology, and well batteries will need stuff also.

    Nuclear pretty much is the only alternative to fossil fuels.

    Fossil fuels are going to be around for a long time. It will probably be easier to capture carbon and store it.

  43. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Professor Q: Once again Edmonton could have been ahead, but ends up behind, the curve.

    Now they’re way, way, way behind.

    They can see the curve if they are on top of the Stantec tower and use binoculars.

  44. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Darth Tu: What, you don’t think that Connor can carry the team on his back, be Captain, Head Coach, GM, and POHO all at the same time?

    I don’t think he would fit into their culture

  45. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    NYR have 3 games remaining

    You’re right, will fix

  46. godot10 says:

    russ99: It’s done.

    New coach and new GM doesn’t have any attachment to old GM’s picks.

    Well, then they would have hired the wrong GM and the wrong coach.

    McLellan came in saying he would get new players, rather than coaching up the existing ones. Chiarelli changed the whole roster pretty much for him.

  47. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Chiarelli did not renew his contract.

    I would bet a fair sum that in an alternate universe where MacT isn’t fired that Dellow heads up EDM’s analytics dept, Hall is still here, they didn’t trade for Reinhart (rumour is MacT was against it) and if MacT improved the D EDM being in the playoffs is a given at the start of the past few seasons.

  48. russ99 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    russ99,

    – YOu and LT are probably right:this is the guy wea re giving up for a 3rd rounder, or packaged up:

    McD: ““The goal he scored on the power play, I zipped it in there on his backhand, and sometimes that’s a tough play when you’re going full speed. He handled it perfectly and got off an amazing shot.

    “He has another gear. He’s just got another step. He must have had a good summer.”

    Hitch: “I don’t want to see anything different. I just want to let him play with the puck. I like a lot of the stuff he does. I especially like a lot of the stuff, he makes little plays really, really well in the offensive zone,”

    Coach: ““You watch the practices, he stands out amongst everyone,”“I don’t think he’s really realized how big and strong he is and how powerful of a skater he is. He’s impressive to watch.”

    If Puljujarvi starts scoring consistently, he’ll have a strong case to be on one of the Oilers top two lines. For now, he’ll continue to skate with Strome and Jujhar Khaira.

    “He’s older. He’s more comfortable. He understands the language. He’s gone from a boy to a man,” McLellan said. “Part of the comfort is knowing what line he’s going to be on.”

    Also: this is a good reminder of what the pre-season means to project performance: All of Rattie, Jessi and Kailer looked like they “belonged”.Talbot was looking great: F$ck pre-season:

    https://www.nugget.ca/sports/local-sports/edmonton-oilers-continue-to-roll-through-the-pre-season-with-trouncing-of-canucks/wcm/5297e296-ed66-456e-b320-34a4042490f7?video_autoplay=true

    I agree, there’s a player there, but the team so botched this, that there’s very little chance of a way back.

    I’m sure 2-3 years from now when another org is patient with him, we’re going to see him do well in at least a third line role.

    RFA is what seals the deal to his road out of town, and Oilers brass only has themselves to blame for starting the clock in the draft +1 year.

  49. Andy Dufresne says:

    godot10: Renewables don’t scale or won’t scale. Renewables are made of stuff.When they are a marginal source of energy, the amount of stuff that they are constructed out of is at the margin.When you try to scale them, it will.

    Rare earths, used for wind, are not exactly rare, but are typically found only amongst weakly radioactive rock.When one attempts to scale rare earth production, one is going to produce massive amount of weakly radioactive waste rock.

    This problem has not been noted by Western environmentalists, because the waste rock problem and the radioactive lakes it produces are all in China.

    Rare earth mines have a tough time being built anywhere else because of the low level radioactive waste.

    And solar is going to require a lot of silver and copper.Good luck with that.

    And with solar and wind, one is still going to need massive breakthroughs is battery technology, and well batteries will need stuff also.

    Nuclear pretty much is the only alternative to fossil fuels.

    Fossil fuels are going to be around for a long time.It will probably be easier to capture carbon and store it.

    I have access to some high level particpants in the Energy business. The energy map which is pretty much written in stone, actually has Natural Gas displacing the largest amount of Oil in the next twenty years, with Solar and Wind at only about half the displacment of Natural Gas.

    Not dispensing investment advice here. Just found the map and its degree of certainty very interesting.

  50. russ99 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I would bet a fair sum that in an alternate universe where MacT isn’t fired that Dellow heads up EDM’s analytics dept, Hall is still here, they didn’t trade for Reinhart (rumour is MacT was against it) and if MacT improved the D EDM being in the playoffs is a given at the start of the season.

    I’d be willing to bet a fair sum that if Chiarelli picked his own staff and wasn’t saddled with the old scouting and player development staff and forced to take his predecessor on as his assistant, we’d be a lot further down the road than we are now. Moves made Post-Chia firing and scouting revealed by K. Gretzky confirms this.

  51. Andy Dufresne says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I don’t think he would fit into their culture

    Other than as an antiseptic / antibiotic.

  52. Andy Dufresne says:

    Woodguy v2.0: They can see the curve if they are on top of the Stantec tower and use binoculars.

    And yet they are sending the entire mgt team to the Flat Earth International Conference (USA) 2019. November 14-15, 2019 | Dallas, Texas

  53. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    russ99,

    – Re: MacT: MacT was for sure a big supporter of punting Hall: this is the stuff he leaked to his buddy when he was GM (around the time he fired Dallas, and was covering his as$): ““It’s not one player. It’s the collection of players that make up the sagging work ethic and lack of culture. But if you had to put a face on it, or a name to it, that name would be Taylor Hall.

    “Taylor Hall, at least from a culture standpoint, in the room not on the ice, hasn’t been what they hoped he would be. So when [GM Craig] MacTavish looks into his crystal ball and sees what’s coming his way through trades, he’s gotta be looking at the trade deadline and then beyond that looking at the draft floor.

    “Because if you’re moving a piece like Taylor Hall, and I believe Taylor Hall will be in play, then the rate of return is always going to be the best in the summer.”

    – This is CTRL+COPY+PASTE from the OBC at the time: sending to press.

    – This is why we are still here all these years later: talking about culture, having the same OBC leak sh$ to to press: press just repeating it…Culture fit: sounds familiar, wonder where Bob got that term from?

    – After MacT becasme Chia’s #2, this was what was said: “It’s all the more surprising given that Kevin Lowe was presumably a resource that MacTavish could have turned to at any time.”

    – Bob has said that it was surprising Chia didn’t use all the resources available to him

    – It’s so obvious, yet so hard to do this right this time

  54. Andy Dufresne says:

    godot10: Nuclear pretty much is the only alternative to fossil fuels.

    Fossil fuels are going to be around for a long time. It will probably be easier to capture carbon and store it.

    And then there’s the permafrost.

    Even though the amount of carbon stored in permafrost soils is poorly understood, recent studies estimate that northern circumpolar permafrost soil carbon content equals approximately 1672 Pg (1 Pg = 1 Gt = 10 to the power 15 g) This estimation of the amount of carbon stored in permafrost soils is more than double the amount currently in the atmosphere.

    Additionally, a sudden and steady release of carbon dioxide and methane from permafrost soils may lead to a positive feedback cycle where warming releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. This carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, causes atmospheric concentrations to increase, causing subsequent warming. This scenario is thought to be a potential runaway climate change scenario.

    The one country in THE WORLD most affected by global warming to date…….CANADA!

    Average temperatures in Canada have already increased by 1.7 degrees Celsius since 1948. Continued amplification of warming at high latitudes is projected under all scenarios of future climate change.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

  55. Darth Tu says:

    Andy Dufresne: And then there’s the permafrost.

    Even though the amount of carbon stored in permafrost soils is poorly understood, recent studiesestimate that northern circumpolar permafrost soil carbon content equals approximately 1672 Pg (1 Pg = 1 Gt = 10 to the power 15 g) This estimation of the amount of carbon stored in permafrost soils is more than double the amount currently in the atmosphere.

    Additionally, a sudden and steady release of carbon dioxide and methane from permafrost soils may lead to a positive feedback cycle where warming releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. This carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, causes atmospheric concentrations to increase, causing subsequent warming. This scenario is thought to be a potential runaway climate change scenario.

    The one country in THE WORLD most affected by global warming to date…….CANADA!

    Average temperatures in Canada have already increased by 1.7 degrees Celsius since 1948. Continued amplification of warming at high latitudes is projected under all scenarios of future climate change.

    Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

    It’s probably a bad sign that in my initial look over this post I read ” 1672 Pg” as 1672 points per game, and immediately thought, we need to trade for this Permafrost guy.

  56. jtblack says:

    WG et al.

    My big playoff draft is Saturday. Looking for some insight / gut feelings.

    Kind of like Lowetide’s draft list; I will listen and take into account all the info but go my way at Draft time!

    Thanks all

  57. DBO says:

    No cap limit on hiring talented personnel people. Analytics, scouting. etc. If you were ever to use the power of a rich owner, spending money on adding to the think tank, not recycling old fired GMs, is a great start.

    Outspend for pro scouts, and analytics. 2 areas we clearly lack. How is this even a problem with a cap on players salaries and a very profitable Oilers organization.

  58. Munny says:

    LT said…

    SAIL ON, TYLER DELLOW

    Infuriating!

    But a heartfelt congrats to Mudcrutch79. Well-deserved, and nice for him to see how another franchise operates although he’s gonna hate the traffic in Joisy.

  59. Munny says:

    Andy Dufresne: “Since day one, [owners] Josh Harris and David Blitzer have supported us by investing in the staff and resources it takes to build a team, the right way,” Devils general manager Ray Shero said. “We have used those resources to recruit talented people who can increase our organization’s expertise in every aspect of the game. Bringing Tyler on board is just another example of our commitment to progressively building in a manner that can help the franchise achieve sustained success.”

    Will we ever hear such words out of the Oiler head office?

  60. Bag of Pucks says:

    I have the faintest hope that Oiler fans were saved when Burgers put his foot in his mouth with Rieder.

    Katz is a distant rumour of an owner, but we are told that management stupidity particularly when it’s related to season ticket renewals gets his attention.

    Much as Lowe’s Tier 2 comment was finally ‘a bridge too far’ for the owner to ignore, I have this faint hope that Burgers, who was likely on a short leash anyway, pissed away the last of his goodwill with that PR debacle.

    One can’t underrate how mind numbingly idiotic it was for a C suite exec to lay all of the blame for a failed plan at one underachieving grunt. Just when you think this franchise can’t get anymore bush league, they fire another bullet into their foot.

  61. OmJo says:

    Good. Now Dellow can convince Hall to come back to Edmonton.

  62. Numenius says:

    godot10: Chiarelli did not renew his contract.

    Where were the signs?

  63. OmJo says:

    Munny: Will we ever hear such words out of the Oiler head office?

    “Sigh… honestly if Rieder scored 10-12% better in math we would be better at analytics …”

  64. Georgexs says:

    The way Hitch has handled his goalies is interesting. Every other move, PC had full autonomy. But Koski was a “group decision.” And the Talbot-Stolarz trade was a Gretzky/(group decision) move.

    I’m confused about whether Hitch will have a role in the org. going forward. He’s getting it out there that he’d be happy to come back. But his usage of his goalies has been more scorched earth than “building for the future” or “taking some positives out of an otherwise disappointing season.”

    I don’t know if it’s his intent but I also don’t know how he could make Keith Gretzky and group decision look worse.

    When Koski struggled earlier in the season, Hitch would go back and forth with Talbot. Now, with Koski struggling again, the backup is rarely seen. Just 1 start since he’s got here. It could be because the backup can’t play because of nagging knee problems. Which doesn’t reflect well on group decision. Given what they should’ve know about the young man’s knees before making the trade. It could also be because, in Hitch’s eyes, the backup REALLY can’t play. It must take Hitch a lot to reach that conclusion because he was content to relieve Koski with an ineffective Talbot. Which is throwing even more shade at group decision.

    The result of the backup not being able to play is the anointed starter is left in through a long stretch of struggles, left in for who knows what reason in the 3rd period last night as an example. So the fans are convinced the starter can’t play (based on his actual play during the unusually heavy workload for a first year NHL starter). The starter who group decision signed for the next 3 years.

    There’s obviously a simpler explanation but I favor palace intrigue. Hitch has been rudely told there’s no chance he’ll coach next season. He sees what goes on. He feels badly used. So he’s sticking the two decisions that group decision has to own right into group decision’s ribs. He has a good sense of the mood of the mob. Once it turns on its goaltender, there will be blood. There was a post last night about buying out Koski’s contract… BEFORE the contract even starts!! Hitch didn’t start the fire but he’s happy to spread it. It’s his public service to his home town. To wake up the king. Hitch is Gandalf freeing Theoden from Grima Wormtongue.

  65. Munny says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Is there anything less scientific than basing climate on a mere 70 years worth of data? And that’s assuming the data is even correct, since the only group of scientists we know who have conspired to manipulate data… are climate scientists whose livelihood depend on climate hysteria.

    Funny too, that when the earth was warmer in the past, this sudden release of CO2 from the permafrost scare story did not occur.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming….

  66. G Money says:

    Hey Tyler, seeing as how you’ve deactivated your Twitter and all, congrats and best of luck in New Joisey!

  67. Georgexs says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: “Part of the comfort is knowing what line he’s going to be on.”

    There’s the TMac who said things and there’s the TMac who did things.

    In October, before the bloom was off the new season, JP played 42 minutes away from Strome compared to 37 minutes with Strome.

  68. blackadder says:

    Keeping with the apparent theme of the day, the failures of the current Oilers front office, which no matter how hard they try to place the blame on Chiarelli was a group failure, is akin to having climate deniers in charge of government policy. Both ignore or dispute scientific data that is easily available and provable, in the case of the Oilers in favour of their gut and the opinions of “200 hockey men” pining for the days of the original six.

    You either modernize, keep up with the times, accept data and succeed or drown in your proud ignorance.

  69. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Georgexs: There’s the TMac who said things and there’s the TMac who did things.

    In October, before the bloom was off the new season, JP played 42 minutes away from Strome compared to 37 minutes with Strome.

    – Yup… Coaches lie all the time. Recently Hitch was talking about how now in Hockey you have to have 3rd and 4rth lines that play together for a long time to get chem, have skill: they don’t last more than a few shifts with him. He blew Pool away pretty quick, Pipe line, etc…

    – It really is perplexing the usage of all of Strome, Spooner, Rattie, Pool, Kailer, Koski from the coaching staff: For Koski ride ’em hard regardless, never use a back-up for everyone else, demote ’em and bench ’em and trade ’em

  70. Bag of Pucks says:

    Today’s conspiracy theory.

    1. Gretzky is Katz’s hero.
    2. Gretz brought in with nebulous but potentially powerful title: Partner & Vice Chair
    3. Both Katz and Gretzky live in LA
    4. Keith Gretzky handling interim GM duties

    Is it too far fetched to speculate that Wayne Gretzky’s current influence in the org is far more than what’s being reported?

    Could the org be dancing around on hiring a POHO because Wayne has essentially assumed that role following Chiarelli’s dismissal? Some one’s got to do the work and lead.

    Would it surprise anyone if WG is higly involved in the GM sourcing and interviews?

  71. Georgexs says:

    PC confused me. He’d built a winning org. with BOS, he’d won a Cup, went to game 6 in another Final. Not a lot of people in his line of work with that level of success on their resume. The default, when you see that level of professional success on a person’s resume, is to assume that they’re good at their profession.

    I saw PC’s moves up to the 2017 off season as makes sense plays, sort of in line with what you’d expect from his record. After that, it was OY! It stopped making sense. This season was all-out desperation or spite. To fire your HC’s assistants but not your HC and then hire some new assistants for your HC. Blue chip. To trade for Brandon Manning, the guy who knocked out your superstar in his rookie season. To bring that guy, a fringe player who CMD went out of his way to confront, the guy now playing in the minors, into the same dressing room.

    Maybe hockey is its own bubble. Maybe the signs in hockey are different from the ones outside of hockey. You have to read things differently.

  72. Bag of Pucks says:

    G Money,

    Good to see you back G. Now we can mourn Rush’s retirement together. 😭

  73. Munny says:

    OmJo: “Sigh… honestly if Rieder scored 10-12% better in math we would be better at analytics…”

    Ha!

    Nicholson needs to go.

  74. Reja says:

    Munny:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Is there anything less scientific than basing climate on a mere 70 years worth of data?And that’s ssuming the data is even correct, since the only group of scientists we know who have conspired to manipulate data… are climate scientists whose livelihood depend on climate hysteria.

    Funny too, that when the earth was warmer in the past, this sudden release of CO2 from the permafrost scare story did not occur.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming….

    Double speak,mixed signals, confusion, hidden agendas everywhere. It’s tough being a Oiler fan

  75. Munny says:

    G Money,

    So good to hear from you, G-Mon.

    —The Fartist formerly known as spOILer.

  76. Cassandra says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – This is the Oil way: no guy on his own is going to make a difference.If you hire an analytics guy, you don’t do it to tick a box: you make part of a culture

    – When you hire a GM, he’s not on is own going to make a difference.When they hire the next GM, it’s not to tick a box and say: “we got a better GM”: you have to give the new GM the tools to suceed

    – Tyler didn’t succeed because the rest of the organization didn’t change.If we bring in a new GM and don’t change the organization, he won’t succeed….

    – When Bob insists that the next GM has to fit in, and further insists that the previous GM was able to make changes, when clearly nothing substantive did change: it’s pretty easy to project what will happen: we will get the “smartest” GM available, and like Dellow and Chia, he will fail because the organization won’t change

    Conflating Chiarelli and Dellow as victims of the old regime is a rich bit of revisionism even coming from you.

    Dellow was hired by MacT and routinely praised by Eakins, whom MacT also hired and didn’t want to fire. These are the analytic supporters within the organization.

    Chiarelli, on the other hand, got rid of Dellow when he had the chance, didn’t use analytics, and with every public statement he made demonstrated a profound ignorance on the subject.

    The situations are not at all analogous. There was a dramatic change in the way in which the organization was run when Chiarelli was hired the consequence of which was obvious from the day of the Reinhart trade and hasn’t waned for a second since.

    You have been on team eye test since the beginning, a relentless critic of people like Dellow, Chiarelli’s deepest and most consistent defender at this site. For you now to pretend that none of this is true, to deflect blame toward mythical creatures, is dishonest and sad. Just admit you were wrong and be done with it.

  77. Munny says:

    Reja: Double speak,mixed signals, confusion, hidden agendas everywhere. It’stough being a Oiler fan

    Absolutement!

    I mean you will get a scare story on thinning sea ice (because they can’t rely on extent to justify their grants any more) and then in another section of the paper a story like this:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/qajaq-icebreaker-1.5056140?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

    Even the disinformation sources can’t get their Newspeak straight.

  78. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I would bet a fair sum that in an alternate universe where MacT isn’t fired that Dellow heads up EDM’s analytics dept, Hall is still here, they didn’t trade for Reinhart (rumour is MacT was against it) and if MacT improved the D EDM being in the playoffs is a given at the start of the past few seasons.

    MacT revisionism returns!

    Lowe killed it with the Pronger trade!

  79. Bag of Pucks says:

    Georgexs:
    PC confused me. He’d built a winning org. with BOS, he’d won a Cup, went to game 6 in another Final. Not a lot of people in his line of work with that level of success on their resume. The default, when you see that level of professional success on a person’s resume, is to assume that they’re good at their profession.

    I saw PC’s moves up to the 2017 off season as makes sense plays, sort of in line with what you’d expect from his record. After that, it was OY! It stopped making sense. This season was all-out desperation or spite. To fire your HC’s assistants but not your HC and then hire some new assistants for your HC. Blue chip. To trade for Brandon Manning, the guy who knocked out your superstar in his rookie season. To bring that guy, a fringe player who CMD went out of his way to confront, the guy now playing in the minors, into the same dressing room.

    Maybe hockey is its own bubble. Maybe the signs in hockey are different from the ones outside of hockey. You have to read things differently.

    His moves this season were the desperate acts of a guy who knew he was on the chopping block imo. I would love the real skinny on the MK contract. Was it Pete’s final eff you as they were readying the pink slip or did he pushback on the contract, to which they replied, “we’re doing it and you’re done here.”

    Either scenario sounds more plausible to me than them all agreeing on one big move at tge exact time the axe is being sharpened. As with all things Oilers, the optics are well…oily.

  80. Andy Dufresne says:

    Munny:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Is there anything less scientific than basing climate on a mere 70 years worth of data?And that’s ssuming the data is even correct, since the only group of scientists we know who have conspired to manipulate data… are climate scientists whose livelihood depend on climate hysteria.

    Funny too, that when the earth was warmer in the past, this sudden release of CO2 from the permafrost scare story did not occur.

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming….

    Yes. I have discussed this point with these guys. How relative is global warming to “naturally occuring” overall planetary climate change. There have been at least 5 major Ice Ages in the planets history. Surely the “man made” component of global warming is miniscule compared to the natural occurence in nature.

    AND….it is…..The problem is, the human perspective, as far a recorded human history goes. Will nature eventually make the planet uninhabitable for humans by pure forces of nature. Yes. Will it happen over the next century. No. So the immediate threat, for you and me, our children and grandchildren, is the “man made” component.

    Its a certainty that Humanity will not react to the conditions until Humanity feels truly threatened in “the present”. Thats why the understanding of catastrophic potential runaway climate change scenarios,like the permafrost, are probably more important than other more gradual man made scenarios.

    Humans are….well….human….we are hard-wired and massively inclined (a dangerous mix of recency bias and survival instinct) to consider our short term interests over longer term interests. And our own interests over the interests of others or the group as a whole.

    There was a Texas community that was a candidate ( for some geological reason) to become a depository for nuclear waste about 30 years ago. At the time the economy in that region was doing pretty well. A plebiscite on the issue rejected the “opportunity”. Some time later (12 years?) the opportunity was again on the table, only this time the economy wasnt doing so well. The community agreed to accept the waste based on stimulating the economy.

  81. Reja says:

    Georgexs:
    PC confused me. He’d built a winning org. with BOS, he’d won a Cup, went to game 6 in another Final. Not a lot of people in his line of work with that level of success on their resume. The default, when you see that level of professional success on a person’s resume, is to assume that they’re good at their profession.

    I saw PC’s moves up to the 2017 off season as makes sense plays, sort of in line with what you’d expect from his record. After that, it was OY! It stopped making sense. This season was all-out desperation or spite. To fire your HC’s assistants but not your HC and then hire some new assistants for your HC. Blue chip. To trade for Brandon Manning, the guy who knocked out your superstar in his rookie season. To bring that guy, a fringe player who CMD went out of his way to confront, the guy now playing in the minors, into the same dressing room.

    Maybe hockey is its own bubble. Maybe the signs in hockey are different from the ones outside of hockey. You have to read things differently.

    Pete knew he had to make the playoffs this year or be fired. He used his get out of jail card with Todd and he had 20-30 games to right the ship. How many people think clearly and give a shit when their ship is sinking fast.

  82. Bag of Pucks says:

    Cassandra,

    Dellow was only ever used by the coaching staff. It’s hyperbole to suggest that hiring was proof of an org wide embracing of analytics that Chiarelli subsequently overturned. Eakins pushed the Dellow hire and the Oilers saw an additional win in being able to muzzle one of their harshest public critics.

    The facts don’t support your narrative here.

  83. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    The one thing I remember the most about Gretz is that he wanted to win at all costs.

    I have great difficulty in believing that 99 wouldn’t, for example, want to avail himself of an additional tool like Analytics, especially when the competition is having success with it.

  84. Bag of Pucks says:

    Munny:
    Bag of Pucks,

    The one thing I remember the most about Gretz is that he wanted to win at all costs.

    I have great difficulty in believing that 99 wouldn’t, for example, want to avail himself of an additional tool like Analytics, especially when the competition is having success with it.

    I don’t know that my post was insinuating Gretzky wouldn’t use analytics?

  85. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    russ99: I’d be willing to bet a fair sum that if Chiarelli picked his own staff and wasn’t saddled with the old scouting and player development staff and forced to take his predecessor on as his assistant, we’d be a lot further down the road than we are now. Moves made Post-Chia firing and scouting revealed by K. Gretzky confirms this.

    So Pete doing to EDM exactly what he did to BOS was due to the nefarious OBC?

    Interesting theory.

    Moves made Post-Chia firing and scouting revealed by K. Gretzky confirms this.

    Trading Talbot confirms this?

  86. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack:
    WG et al.

    My big playoff draft is Saturday. Looking for some insight / gut feelings.

    Kind of like Lowetide’s draft list; I will listen and take into account all the info but go my way at Draft time!

    Thanks all

    Bet on goalies.

  87. Munny says:

    Andy Dufresne: AND….it is…..The problem is, the human perspective, as far a recorded human history goes. Will nature eventually make the planet uninhabitable for humans by pure forces of nature. Yes. Will it happen over the next century. No. So the immediate threat, for you and me, our children and grandchildren, is the “man made” component.

    Not sure how you go from Nature is the overwhelming cause to manmade being a “threat”. There’s a massive jump there.

    Andy Dufresne: And our own interests over the interests of others or the group as a whole.

    This statement is the very basis of capitalism. Ie., that we will act most often in our own best interest, that we don’t actually know what’s best for others (and that it is incredibly arrogant and disrespectful to think we do), and finally that the best interests of the group are an aggregate of its member’s best interests.

  88. russ99 says:

    Cassandra,

    I’ll go to my deathbed believing that Chiarelli was railroaded by the OBC on Reinhart.

    Too bad the Bob Green interview at the draft seems to have been scrubbed from the web. That was the best evidence ever.

  89. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Munny: Will we ever hear such words out of the Oiler head office?

    “We need better eyeballs” – something CEO Nicholls actually said recently about his new GM and scouting

  90. Andy Dufresne says:

    Reja: Pete knew he had to make the playoffs this year or be fired. He used his get out of jail card with Todd and he had 20-30 games to right the ship. How many people thinkclearly and give a shit when their ship is sinking fast.

    This is the power of pressure/fear/self interest. It clouds our vision. It can make us irrational.

    I wonder how much McDavids recent comments have turned the heat up Bob Nicholson in particular?

    And how much it will affect the interview process?

    There is a type of bias built into the hiring process. We tend to hire “like minded” people. People who argree with us, who may challenge us, but ultimately who share our perspective. People who fit the culture (sound familiar). I would bet the large majority of the interviewee’s will come in selling, in large part, what they know the organization already beleives. The new GM will hit the ground running with an agenda that matches the groupthink that currently exists. IMO.

    Sure we’ll get significant “group speak” about Analytics and perhaps a hire or two. But will it be adopted in full force in the next 5 months. Highly unlikely.

    Conclusion: IMO the new GM will have to agree with the principles of draft and develop, over-ripen, speed kills, etc. as have already been voiced by Nicholson. He will however be tasked with the competing priority of accelerating the “makeover”….dumping salary and building a contender “now”, this summer.

    JP, any 2019 pick outside the top 10, any 2020 pick (lottery protected), any prospect not named Bouchard or Benson, and any roster player not named McDavid or Draisaitl, will be legal tender for this new GM. IMO

  91. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    – Eakins: they were going to get help for Kruger. Had they added Eakins and Neilson, and another vet coach: they would have had an “innovative” group of coaches. Instead Eakins bull-sh$tted a bull-sh$tter. Probably a lot different if he started as an assistant coach though. Renney was as good as any coach since: it’s just been a cluster-f$ck of carousels

    – I don’t recall anyone having disparaging things to say about Dellow in his capacity with the Oil: he was a low-level paper pusher with an analytical bent: his contribution to the team is impossible for an outsider to assess (except that clearly the organization didn’t value analytics: as he wasn’t replaced)

  92. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks: I don’t know that my post was insinuating Gretzky wouldn’t use analytics?

    For context, read the thread. For my meaning, read the “for example” phrase. 🙂

  93. RonnieB says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    1 OTT -17
    2 LAK -11
    3 NJD -10
    4 BUF -8
    5 DET -6
    6 ANA -4
    7 NYR -4
    8 EDM -3
    9 VAN 0
    10 CHI 1
    11 PHI 2
    12 MIN 3
    13 ARI 4
    14 FLA 4
    15 MTL 14

    EDM “wins” ties vs NYR via ROW and vs ANA vs season head to head record if ANA ties ROW (EDM has one more ROW today)

    Game remaining:

    NYR: vs OTT, vs CBJ, at PIT
    ANA vs CGY, vs LAK
    EDM:vs SJS, at CGY

    There’s a reasonable chance that ANA goes at least 1-1-0 in their last two to end at -4 while EDM goes 0-2 and finished -5 for 7th place.

    To get 6th they’d need NYR to go 1-1-1 at least if they go 0-2

    note: edited for NYR having 3 gp left, not the 2 I initially stated.

    The bogey is SJS.

    1-8-1 in their last 10.

    Jones has been worse than Koskinen lately with a .890 since March 1st and Dell is worse with a 0.868

    Koskinen is .909 since March 1.

    The 5th pick is possible if the Oilers lose both and Detroit wins both.

  94. Munny says:

    Woodguy v2.0: “We need better eyeballs” – something CEO Nicholls actually said recently about his new GM and scouting

    He has to go. IF Culture is the biggest problem with the organisation, well culture is set by the guy at the top… and Katz can’t be fired.

  95. Georgexs says:

    Reja: Pete knew he had to make the playoffs this year or be fired. He used his get out of jail card with Todd and he had 20-30 games to right the ship. How many people thinkclearly and give a shit when their ship is sinking fast.

    Got that. But I meant he stopped making sense following the playoffs. Everything he did after that.

    There ARE people who think clearly in crisis. They’re the survivors. The ones who don’t give up may still lose. But the ones who give up almost certainly lose.

  96. Spartacus says:

    No. 163 overall— L Nando Eggenberger, Oshawa Generals (OHL). Two-way talent, enjoying a solid year in the OHL (he was eligible last season).

    We could use a ‘Nando in the lineup again.

    There was something in the air that night,
    The stars were bright,
    Fernando.

    2006 feels like a lifetime ago.

  97. JimmyV1965 says:

    blackadder:
    Keeping with the apparent theme of the day, the failures of the current Oilers front office, which no matter how hard they try to place the blame on Chiarelli was a group failure, is akin to having climate deniers in charge of government policy.Both ignore or dispute scientific data that is easily available and provable, in the case of the Oilers in favour of their gut and the opinions of “200 hockey men” pining for the days of the original six.

    You either modernize, keep up with the times, accept data and succeed or drown in your proud ignorance.

    Gotta love the climate change references in a hockey blog, especially the use of the term denier. For the record, most deniers believe CO2 will warm the planet to a mild degree. What we dispute are models that rely on a very heavy positive feedback mechanism created by CO2 and warming to create more water vapour and amplify warming. This feedback mechanism is at the heart of arguments against catastrophic global warming. This is very much in dispute.

  98. jtblack says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Bet on goalies.

    GOALERING = important

    It’s always a crap shoot. Teams are so evenly matched ….

    DAL & NYI have good goalering but I don’t particularly like them …..

    Guess we will see! thanks for the advice

  99. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    russ99:
    ,

    I’ll go to my deathbed believing that Chiarelli was railroaded by the OBC on Reinhart.

    Too bad the Bob Green interview at the draft seems to have been scrubbed from the web. That was the best evidence ever.

    – We have this quote though: winner, culture, heart, big, looks good, recent struggles be dammed:

    ““I know what he brings,” said Oilers Director of Player Personnel and former Oil Kings General Manager Bob Green. “I know what he brought in junior. He played one year pro, he’s got developing to do but Griffin is a winner. He’s got elite hockey sense, he’s 6-foot-4, he’s a defenceman and we need defencemen. He won a Memorial Cup Championship, he was the captain. He would have taken us there, I believe, when he was 18 but he got injured in the Conference Final that year. We took Portland to six games and maybe we could have won that series if we had him in the lineup. Did he struggle this year in the American League? I guess he did. But I believe in Griffin as a player and I think he’s going to be just fine.””

    – After they lost Hamilton: the crew came up with Griff: and Chia listened..

    – If we got all of Sek and Hamilton, and a healthy McD for the year: things would have been a lot different. Instead it was Sek, 29 games of Griff and 45 games of CmD

    – You wonder what the team would have looked like with a healthy season of CmD and Hall. With Sek and Hamilton on the back: Shultz plays lower and slotted properly, Klef, Nurse emerging, Drai used more as 3C

    – Off-season evaluation would have been a lot different: bad luck made for some bad moves…

  100. Andy Dufresne says:

    JimmyV1965: Gotta love the climate change references in a hockey blog, especially the use of the term denier.For the record, most deniers believe CO2 will warm the planet to a mild degree. What we dispute are models that rely on a very heavy positive feedback mechanism created by CO2 and warming to create more water vapour and amplify warming. This feedback mechanism is at the heart of arguments against catastrophic global warming. This is very much in dispute.

    Things are warming up in here! 🙂

    And in the Oilers front office thanks to McDavids comments.
    .
    Man made climate change?!….unless of course you argue that McDavid is a diety. 🙂 …..
    .
    or a force of nature! 🙂

  101. Doug McLachlan says:

    Rehashing the past can be really instructive and cathartic but I’m curious about the what’s next.

    There are POHO candidates to be sure, keep with Bobby Nicks, Holland, Wayne but with the exception of Holland, that seems more of a figure head (pessimistic take) or of providing an overall vision (optimistic) than actually doing the day-to-day strip down/repair to the roster and resetting for what we all would want to be a better 2019-20 season.

    Shanahan was the face of the three-headed Lou-Dubas-Hunter monster in Toronto but there was little doubt, in my mind, that Lou was running the show when he was there and no doubt that Dubas is running it now. Shanahan’s POHO role was important in setting up the initial structure and in resetting it into Dubas’ hands but the Tavaras UFA signing, settling on Sparks as the backup, the Nylander deal, trading for Muzzin instead of the RHD that Babcock wanted, the Matthews deal, and the upcoming Marner deal. That’s all on Dubas – good or bad.

    Who are the Oilers’ best candidates for that work. The GM job, regardless of the actual title, ultimately goes to who? and why?

    I honestly suspect that Keith Gretzky gets an interview. He’s seen the inside of the asylum and has legit observations to make. Don’t think he’s the call.

    Ken Holland is only brought in, IMO, to provide some perspective on how you build a winning organization during the interview process but can’t see them actually hiring him unless it is to mentor someone (say Kretzky, or Verbeek).

    Steve Yzerman. Can’t imagine he even takes the meeting. He gets to watch the Lightning from afar this spring and then, likely, jumps to Detroit but if he’s prepared to sit down with the Oilers I think he’s a person worth listening to. Insights into their late round drafting strategies in Tampa would be gold.

    Pat Verbeek is someone who is probably headed to Detroit with Yzerman but he’s unburdened by baggage of past failures and should get a hearing.

    Mike Gillis absolutely has to be interviewed. The OBC needs to move past it – seriously, even if he’s not the person you settle on you need to hear from someone who will come in and rattle some cages if only to get the much needed wake-up call.

    Mark Hunter is not, IMO, the right call but would have no trouble with him being on the short list. He got a good look at what went on in Toronto and that insight is valuable. Surely the Oilers are in a better spot than the Leafs were when he was hired. The Oilers are not as flush as MLSE but OEG has some $ to fix mistakes, getting a roadmap is not unreasonable.

    The clubhouse favourite seems to be Kelly McCrimmon. I am not sure he’ll be available to talk with the Oilers until the end of the second round, at the earliest. In many ways he’s Mark Hunter west but that is the conference we’re in and his role in building Vegas from scratch is an interesting enough story to tell. Hopefully he gets a chance to tell it to Bob.

    My call would be to bring in Ron Hextall. The criticisms seem to be similar to Chiarelli in some sense, in that he was very insular and cut off, but he cleaned up a mess from when he arrived in Philly and seemed to have enough patience to see the project through. Flyers clearly thought he was too patient and that may be an issue for Oiler fans who want a quick turnaround.

    Anyone I’m missing?

  102. G Money says:

    Bag of Pucks,
    Munny,

    Thanks lads! (or ladies, ya never actually know)

    April 1st was the 43rd anniversary of the release of 2112!

    I believe this is on topic because in my heart I know that Oilers Management = Priests of the Temples of Syrinx.

    “What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth some stats”

    “Yes, we know, it’s nothing new
    It’s just a waste of time
    We have no need for newfangled ways
    Our world is doing fine
    Another toy that would help destroy
    The old boys club we nurture
    Forget about your silly whim
    It doesn’t fit the culture”

  103. PinkSocks says:

    JimmyV1965: Gotta love the climate change references in a hockey blog, especially the use of the term denier.For the record, most deniers believe CO2 will warm the planet to a mild degree. What we dispute are models that rely on a very heavy positive feedback mechanism created by CO2 and warming to create more water vapour and amplify warming. This feedback mechanism is at the heart of arguments against catastrophic global warming. This is very much in dispute.

    Not to mention the “always follow the money” rule, wherein taxation is used to combat something which is in dispute.

  104. Yeti says:

    JimmyV1965: Gotta love the climate change references in a hockey blog, especially the use of the term denier.For the record, most deniers believe CO2 will warm the planet to a mild degree. What we dispute are models that rely on a very heavy positive feedback mechanism created by CO2 and warming to create more water vapour and amplify warming. This feedback mechanism is at the heart of arguments against catastrophic global warming. This is very much in dispute.

    It’s not really in dispute among climate scientists. The projections coming out of climate science start at moderate warming and move to severe, depending on those assumptions. Even at the moderate end, the consequences will be very serious and felt first and foremost by those – just like Jesse Puljujarvi – who did least to cause the problem in the first place.

  105. John Chambers says:

    I actually think the team could be in a pretty good spot … one year from now. This is basically the same as the end of the season in 2015 when MacT said they were a development year away from competing.

    Four years later, we have three lost years to show for it!

  106. Darth Tu says:

    Spartacus:
    No. 163 overall— L Nando Eggenberger, Oshawa Generals (OHL). Two-way talent, enjoying a solid year in the OHL (he was eligible last season).

    We could use a ‘Nando in the lineup again.

    There was something in the air that night,
    The stars were bright,
    Fernando.

    2006 feels like a lifetime ago.

    I just want to see the EggenBurger special at Bob’s Burgers. With Nando’s sauce.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    36 percent body fat:
    Lowetide why are the oilers signing vessey and larkin how have never shown any signs of nhl ability and skill and not guys from CHL with high NHLE.Skylar Brindamour is another, why?

    I don’t imagine that either Vesey or Larkin will be offered a second contract by the Oilers.

    I believe Brindamour is heading to college next year and no signing is imminent.

  108. John Chambers says:

    However in a years time we should be able to replace Sekera and Russell with Jones and Bouchard, Marody and Benson should be middle-six regulars, while Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and the 2019 1st should be close to NHL-ready.

    The Lucic contract can probably be moved after July 1, 3020.

    Just need to a) find a goalie (again), and more importantly b) have McDavid be on-board with the timeline.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: That is a terrible idea

    Ya – having players “in on” management decisions would set a pretty wild precedent and I don’t think that it would be advisable.

  110. Todd Macallan says:

    Doug McLachlan,

    After reading a few articles on him, my top choice is Gilman from the Leafs.

  111. giddy says:

    CassandraDellow was hired by MacT and routinely praised by Eakins, whom MacT also hired and didn’t want to fire.These are the analytic supporters within the organization.

    Calling MacT an analytics supporter is a stretch. It’s fairly obvious MacT brought Dellow on-board at Eakins request (read: plea for help) after his first season being a complete disaster–Eakins was vocally supportive of fancies, MacT on the other hand did not speak much to them.

  112. giddy says:

    OriginalPouzar: Ya – having players “in on” management decisions would set a pretty wild precedent and I don’t think that it would be advisable.

    You have a collect call from: LEBRON JAMES

  113. SwedishPoster says:

    John Chambers:
    However in a years time we should be able to replace Sekera and Russell with Jones and Bouchard, Marody and Benson should be middle-six regulars, while Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, and the 2019 1st should be close to NHL-ready.

    The Lucic contract can probably be moved after July 1, 3020.

    Just need to a) find a goalie (again), and more importantly b) have McDavid be on-board with the timeline.

    That Lucic contract is just going on for a thousand years isn’t it…

  114. G Money says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    With all due respect, observing that good teams tend to have goalies that are playing well, and bad teams have goalies that are playing poorly, is not exactly revelatory.

    In the NHL, goaltending is so outlandishly important that the relationship is virtually a tautology.

    What you really want is some body of information from which to infer the underlying quality of the goaltender.

    Your observation that goaltending results can change with teams or *also* not change with teams and *also* vary dramatically between backup/starter on the same team (see: TBL/Vasi/Domingue and LAK/Quick/Campbell) should tell you that looking at a teams record will not help you much in that regard, and more likely will lead you down the garden path far and often.

  115. texmex says:

    SwedishPoster,

    Feels like it.

  116. Jaxon says:

    Georgexs:
    PC confused me. He’d built a winning org. with BOS, he’d won a Cup, went to game 6 in another Final. Not a lot of people in his line of work with that level of success on their resume. The default, when you see that level of professional success on a person’s resume, is to assume that they’re good at their profession.

    I saw PC’s moves up to the 2017 off season as makes sense plays, sort of in line with what you’d expect from his record. After that, it was OY! It stopped making sense. This season was all-out desperation or spite. To fire your HC’s assistants but not your HC and then hire some new assistants for your HC. Blue chip. To trade for Brandon Manning, the guy who knocked out your superstar in his rookie season. To bring that guy, a fringe player who CMD went out of his way to confront, the guy now playing in the minors, into the same dressing room.

    Maybe hockey is its own bubble. Maybe the signs in hockey are different from the ones outside of hockey. You have to read things differently.

    Except he didn’t actually win them that cup. Most of the core was built by Jeff Gorton before Chiarelli. Gorton was instrumental in drafting Bergeron and Krejci, and in signing Thomas (as Assistant GM according to the Mike O’Connell, GM at the time), then he was interim GM for a total of 3 months where he drafted Marchand, Lucic, and Kessel, he traded Raycroft for Rask, and then signed Chara and Savard all before Chiarelli was legally allowed to do anything until he was signed as the new GM on July 15th (it is speculation that he was instrumental in Chara signing). What core players did Chiarelli add? Horton (who didn’t stay healthy through the playoffs and I don’t think played in the final)? Recchi? Ryder? Kaberle? Well, those aren’t exactly core guys, I would consider them complimentary guys like Maroon, Russell, and Chiasson. He made smart move to sign Wheeler but then traded him for Peverley who contributed to their Cup but I wouldn’t consider him a core player. I’d also argue that Wheeler would have been better than Peverly then (outscored him that season and has always been a more complete player) and definitely since (91 points last season while Peverly has been retired for 4 years). He also drafted Seguin and Hamilton (picks acquired with Gorton’s pick, Kessel)? then traded Seguin and Hamilton. Chiarelli never should have been hired based on winning a Cup, trading elite talent away, and then running that Cup team into cap issues.

    I’ve always believed Chiarelli was making moves based on his own ego. He didn’t want people to think he won a future Stanley Cup just because he was handed a team with McDavid, Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov (there was still hope at that time), Schultz, Klefbom, Nurse, Draisaitl, and Khaira. Pouliot, Oesterle, and Slepyshev were decent at the time as well and Pitlick was on his way up. Talbot was a decent trade, although I have a gut feeling that Sather was doing a bit of a favour to Edmonton as one of his last GM moves. He’s picked up a couple decent players who turned out like Maroon and Chiasson, but way too many bad trades and terrible signings. He ran the team into cap troubles just like he did in Boston.

    Trading Hall and signing Lucic after an injury riddled season was also a very poor reactionary stance. The team would probably have improved by nearly the same amount or more to make the playoffs the next season. The were decimated in man games lost to impactful players.

  117. Doug McLachlan says:

    Todd Macallan:
    Doug McLachlan,

    After reading a few articles on him, my top choice is Gilman from the Leafs.

    Gillman was a name I forgot. Think he would be a great interview for sure.

    Also forgot to include Michael Futa, current Assistant GM in LA. A perennial “name to keep in mind” from recent GM searches around the league. Would be interesting to hear his take on how to rework a Moar Bigger roster to one more suited to the current NHL.

  118. Bag of Pucks says:

    G Money:
    Bag of Pucks,
    Munny,

    Thanks lads! (or ladies, ya never actually know)

    April 1st was the 43rd anniversary of the release of 2112!

    I believe this is on topic because in my heart I know that Oilers Management = Priests of the Temples of Syrinx.

    “What can this strange device be? When I touch it, it gives forth some stats”

    “Yes, we know, it’s nothing new
    It’s just a waste of time
    We have no need for newfangled ways
    Our world is doing fine
    Another toy that would help destroy
    The old boys club we nurture
    Forget about your silly whim
    It doesn’t fit the culture”

    Very funny.

    Circumstances seems appropriate to this franchise as well.

    “Laughed at by time. Tricked by circumstances.
    Plus ca change
    Plus c’est la meme chose
    The more that things change. The more they stay the same.”

  119. Reja says:

    Georgexs: Got that. But I meant he stopped making sense following the playoffs. Everything he did after that.

    There ARE people who think clearly in crisis. They’re the survivors. The ones who don’t give up may still lose. But the ones who give up almost certainly lose.

    If Sekera doesn’t get hurt Jesse scores 25 Nurse is a 1-2 kelfbom also improving Talbot not letting in a first shot every second game he fuked up but he also had bad luck.

  120. Doug McLachlan says:

    SwedishPoster: That Lucic contract is just going on for a thousand years isn’t it…

    I am convinced that there is a way out of the Lucic debacle but it isn’t easy.

    Step one, get Milan’s permission to be traded. He asked out last summer, may still be interested this year.

    Step two, you are only going to be able to deal him after he’s paid his $3M bonus on July 1st. From there on the remaining 4 years have a cash outlay of $16M ($4M per year for 4 years, sigh).

    Step three, you will need to eat some of that $. The most you can retain is 50% so the Oilers could retain $3M and deal a $1M player (though with a $3M AAV). That’s not an unreasonable price for a hard hitting, rings in the room player. Someone gets pushed around and knocked out in the first round of the playoffs and it might seem attractive for something closer to $2M.

    Even at a retained $3M per year, that’s better for the Oilers than the cost of a buyout.

  121. Darth Tu says:

    Doug McLachlan: I am convinced that there is a way out of the Lucic debacle but it isn’t easy.

    Step one, get Milan’s permission to be traded.He asked out last summer, may still be interested this year.

    Step two, you are only going to be able to deal him after he’s paid his $3M bonus on July 1st.From there on the remaining 4 years have a cash outlay of $16M ($4M per year for 4 years, sigh).

    Step three, you will need to eat some of that $.The most you can retain is 50% so the Oilers could retain $3M and deal a $1M player (though with a $3M AAV).That’s not an unreasonable price for a hard hitting, rings in the room player.Someone gets pushed around and knocked out in the first round of the playoffs and it might seem attractive for something closer to $2M.

    Even at a retained $3M per year, that’s better for the Oilers than the cost of a buyout.

    I keep looking at Ottawa for this, they’re in danger of not making the Cap floor. If there’s a way to deal Lucic to them it kind of helps both organizations out.

    I have no idea what the trade would be, I’ve not looked at their assets, but they’re one of the first teams I’d be pitching to.

    Like you say, Looch would have to waive his NMC for this to happen.

  122. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    G Money,

    – Nice to hear from you G (I too was sent to jail and am back!)

    – You ask (as always!), the great question: “What you really want is some body of information from which to infer the underlying quality of the goaltender.”

    – I agree what I’m saying isn’t revelatory. But it’s true, and is important

    – What info do we have to assess the underlying quality of a goalie, independent of the team? Why do the good goalies cluster around good teams, and bad ones on bad teams? Why do goalies often change situations or environments and have drastically different results? Is that voodoo, or being a product of their environment?

    – The goalie performance matters most to the result of a team each game (hot or cold), but over longer periods, a goalie’s performance is beholden to the team’s performance, with some elite (or exceptionally bad) exceptions IMO. Some goalies are better technically than other, etc, but I’m not sure there are tools to verify this independent of team, or at least not influenced by the team

    – I call it the “Bunny Laraque principle”: an awesome goalie for 8 years when he was back-up to Dryden with the Habs: then a poor goalie on brutal Leaf teams for a few years.

    – When I look at these stats: I see the good teams all have goalies that are GSAA% that are high, and the bad teams have the GSAA% low, and all the other measure: bad starts, etc. They aren’t measures about the goalie’s attributes as much as the teams for the most part.:

    https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2019_goalies.html

  123. Reja says:

    Munny: Absolutement!

    I mean you will get a scare story on thinning sea ice (because they can’t rely on extent to justify their grants any more) and then in another section of the paper a story like this:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/qajaq-icebreaker-1.5056140?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

    Even the disinformation sources can’t get their Newspeak straight.

    Who’s baby is that? What’s your angle? I’ll buy that”! ?

  124. who says:

    Woodguy v2.0: “We need better eyeballs” – something CEO Nicholls actually said recently about his new GM and scouting

    Are you saying we don’t

  125. Gerta Rauss says:

    G Money,

    Hahahahaha… I’d give $100 to see McDavid in one of those white kimono’s

  126. Gerta Rauss says:

    John Chambers: The Lucic contract can probably be moved after July 1, 3020.

    That sounds about right

  127. Scungilli Slushy says:

    People get answers wrong because they often don’t understand the question. Also many are mentally comfort seeking which compounds things. It’s uncomfortable to push through until you understand. Lurning be hard.

    Most agree that NHL hockey players need to be able to handle the physicality of the league. The Oilers have this at or near the top of their list of what they want. They call it character.

    They don’t understand the problem yet.

  128. RonnieB says:

    Doug McLachlan: I am convinced that there is a way out of the Lucic debacle but it isn’t easy.

    Step one, get Milan’s permission to be traded.He asked out last summer, may still be interested this year.

    Step two, you are only going to be able to deal him after he’s paid his $3M bonus on July 1st.From there on the remaining 4 years have a cash outlay of $16M ($4M per year for 4 years, sigh).

    Step three, you will need to eat some of that $.The most you can retain is 50% so the Oilers could retain $3M and deal a $1M player (though with a $3M AAV).That’s not an unreasonable price for a hard hitting, rings in the room player.Someone gets pushed around and knocked out in the first round of the playoffs and it might seem attractive for something closer to $2M.

    Even at a retained $3M per year, that’s better for the Oilers than the cost of a buyout.

    in addition to lucic’s NMC, there is another small pinhole in that balloon. The maximum retention is 50% of the cap hit and the same percentage of the actual salary; thus the Oilers could retain max. $3 of the cap and $2 of the salary.

  129. G Money says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    I’m using Corsica data, but even looking at the HR data, I don’t agree that the data actually relates GSAA and team results much.

    Even using HR data, some of the best GSAA performances belong to goalies that are on teams that are average to bad by most defensive measures: Greiss/NYI, Kuemper/ARI, Andersen/TOR, and of course, the poster boy of Gibson/ANA.

    (I don’t fully buy into GSAA but at least it attempts, however imperfectly, to incorporate shot quality information)

    Yes, you can find examples of good goalie/good team, and bad/bad. It’s also easy to find good/bad and bad/good. Which suggests that the two are distinctly uncorrelated, which is what I’d expect.

    I’d assert that in the short term (i.e. season) goaltender performance drives team performance to a much greater degree than the other way around. That’s highly relevant to discussions of Koskinen and his 54 EDM games.

    I’d also suggest that the 180+ games Koskinen played in the KHL indicated that he would be a good backup/poor starter level goalie in the NHL, and I think that’s exactly what we’ve seen. In other words, no one but the Oilers management should be surprised by this, nor is there any evidence to suggest it will be better next year.

    If you forward the argument that long term exposure to the shot volume and quality issues of playing behind a consistently poor defense, or even bad team dynamics/culture, can fatigue and dispirit a goalie enough that it significantly affects his long-term performance, I’m on board with that argument. I don’t have proof, but I believe we’ve watched goalies go through it.

    I think there’s more than enough evidence to indicate that goalies drive team performance in the short-term though, and that’s where we would be at with Koskinen.

    He hasn’t been good, and I’d say that’s much more a reflection of his performance than on the (also poor) team.

  130. G Money says:

    Gerta Rauss,

    If ticket sales fall off, this may be the next inevitable fund raising venture!

  131. Gerta Rauss says:

    G Money,

    I think Twilight Zone from 2112 also works in this discussion…

  132. Ben says:

    G Money: In other words, no one but the Oilers management should be surprised by this

    Hahaha! Oh hohoo, haha hehehehhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee *dies*

  133. Material Elvis says:

    G Money,

    Gmoney is out of purgatory? This is fantastic news. Welcome back!

    Gmoney for GM!

  134. Professor Q says:

    As a scientist who has studied in the Climate Change and Earth Sciences areas (and who has many much smarter and more talented/impactful colleagues/former colleagues), I am highly disappointed with some of the intelligent yet misinformed posters here.

    And, no, most of us do not make up stuff to get grants. We aren’t trying to trick you or the rest of the populus. We’re scientists. We research. We are peer-reviewed and adhere to scientific principles and methods. If we mess up, we have to try, try again. There are, however, issues with the research, publications, and University and capitalism systems, which inhabit various sectors of the community and society. Not immune to that.

    Scientific Studies: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw

    Effective scientific communication and outreach are imperative, however, and science coverage by MSM can be highly confusing and misleading, on numerous fronts, by misinterpreting scientific articles and studies and misrepresenting them in news print. It’s a constant battle and we all have to work to improve this.

  135. G Money says:

    Material Elvis,

    Ha ha, thanks!

    Purgatory isn’t quite the right word, and in the immortal words of the Great Canadian Philosopher Trooper, I’m probably here for a good time not a long time … but hey, it’s important to realize how much you didn’t miss eighty paragraph essays!

  136. Georgexs says:

    Jaxon: Except he didn’t actually win them that cup. Most of the core was built by Jeff Gorton before Chiarelli. Gorton was instrumental in drafting Bergeron and Krejci, and in signing Thomas (as Assistant GM according to the Mike O’Connell, GM at the time), then he was interim GM for a total of 3 months where he drafted Marchand, Lucic, and Kessel, he traded Raycroft for Rask, and then signed Chara and Savard all before Chiarelli was legally allowed to do anything until he was signed as the new GM on July 15th (it is speculation that he was instrumental in Chara signing). What core players did Chiarelli add? Horton (who didn’t stay healthy through the playoffs and I don’t think played in the final)? Recchi? Ryder? Kaberle? Well, those aren’t exactly core guys, I would consider them complimentary guys like Maroon, Russell, and Chiasson. He made smart move to sign Wheeler but then traded him for Peverley who contributed to their Cup but I wouldn’t consider him a core player. I’d also argue that Wheeler would have been better than Peverly then (outscored him that season and has always been a more complete player) and definitely since (91 points last season while Peverly has been retired for 4 years). He also drafted Seguin and Hamilton (picks acquired with Gorton’s pick, Kessel)? then traded Seguin and Hamilton. Chiarelli never should have been hired based on winning a Cup, trading elite talent away, and then running that Cup team into cap issues.

    I’ve always believed Chiarelli was making moves based on his own ego. He didn’t want people to think he won a future Stanley Cup just because he was handed a team with McDavid, Hall, Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov (there was still hope at that time), Schultz, Klefbom, Nurse, Draisaitl, and Khaira. Pouliot, Oesterle, and Slepyshev were decent at the time as well and Pitlick was on his way up. Talbot was a decent trade, although I have a gut feeling that Sather was doing a bit of a favour to Edmonton as one of his last GM moves. He’s picked up a couple decent players who turned out like Maroon and Chiasson, but way too many bad trades and terrible signings. He ran the team into cap troubles just like he did in Boston.

    Trading Hall and signing Lucic after an injury riddled season was also a very poor reactionary stance. The team would probably have improved by nearly the same amount or more to make the playoffs the next season. The were decimated in man games lost to impactful players.

    Wikipedia agrees with you on Jeff Gorton’s contributions. So does Gorton’s bio page on the Rangers site.

    Some things I don’t get:

    1. He made very big moves as an interim GM with the Bruins committing the new GM, whose fate as GM would be directly impacted by these picks, trades, and signings, when the new GM was “legally” prevented from taking the reins.

    2. Every single move Gorton made as interim GM was spectacular. I mean spectacular. People get excited about this Dubas guy in TOR. Does anyone have as many hits in a multi-year GM career as Gorton managed in those 3 months?

    3. But when he was let go by PC the next year (because jealous, obviously), he didn’t find AGM work again until 4 years later. The Rangers first hired him as a scout in 2007 before moving him up to AGM duties in 2011. Why? Culture? Does he have an annoying laugh?

    4. It wasn’t until 9 years after his spectacular League-altering performance as interim GM that he manged to get a GM job for himself with the Rangers when Sather moved up to whatever fancy office he moved himself up to.

    5. All of Gorton’s moves which won BOS the Cup were made 5 years before the team actually got around to winning the Cup and 7 years before they appeared again in the Finals. Gorton added all the good and PC managed to add not too much bad. Instant (sort of) Cup of noodles.

    The League didn’t treat Gorton as a wunderkind even though he hit, what, a dozen home runs in his his only at-bat. Some things don’t seem right here, but, yeah, that doesn’t mean they’re wrong. Like I said, hockey is its own bubble.

  137. JimmyV1965 says:

    Yeti: It’s not really in dispute among climate scientists. The projections coming out of climate science start at moderate warming and move to severe, depending on those assumptions. Even at the moderate end, the consequences will be very serious and felt first and foremost by those – just like Jesse Puljujarvi – who did least to cause the problem in the first place.

    If you don’t think the water vapour feedback mechanism is in dispute, you’re only listening to one set of scientists. Good thing the World Bank has stopped supporting coal fired power plants. Gotta luv that. The first world built its economy on cheap power, but let’s not extend that same privilege to the poorest nations of the world.

  138. Georgexs says:

    Reja: If Sekera doesn’t get hurt Jesse scores 25 Nurse is a 1-2 kelfbom also improving Talbot not letting in a first shot every second game he fuked up but he also had bad luck.

    Yeah, maybe his problem was he couldn’t tell which part he fuked up and which part was bad luck.

  139. Bag of Pucks says:

    Material Elvis:
    G Money,

    Gmoney is out of purgatory?This is fantastic news.Welcome back!

    Gmoney for GM!

    G wasn’t in purgatory. He was in the island from Lost. The black smoke and the polar bears are the tells.

    Lowe, MacT, and Howson are there too. They’re all in the Swan station entering numbers to continually reset this franchise back to square one.

  140. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    G Money:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    He hasn’t been good, and I’d say that’s much more a reflection of his performance than on the (also poor) team.

    G Money:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    In the NHL, goaltending is so outlandishly important that the relationship is virtually a tautology.

    What you really want is some body of information from which to infer the underlying quality of the goaltender.

    – Anyway it’s interesting: I don’t know of measures for goalie to ascertain if they are “good” or not. Goalies get hot and they get cold, and teams play better when the goalie is hot, and they lose when they are cold and at the end of the year: the best teams have the goalies with the better “stats”

    – Ill take a few examples: two years ago, Price was close to league worse on GSAA, and he is top-10 this year? Other than the team being better, did Price do anything different in the off-season? Was last year his worst year because it was also the gong-show year, or did Price let the team down, and this year he “stepped up”?

    – Halak was tossed out of NYI and is now great in Boston. The goalies this year in NYI are also very good: Other than the team better, what did the goalies add? I’m much more confident that NYI is better this year, rather than Halak had a bad year last year and this year a good one, and the new goalies are same range as Halak is/was to explain the goalie performance.

    – Did Quick lose his technique a little, or were there clues that he was set up for a bad year, or was it just the L.A. was a worse team? Or is Quick the reason the team is so bad?

    – Did Lou on his own put the team on his back last year to almost make it to playoffs, and he’s the reason they suck so much this year?

    – Is Vasi consistent last 3 years because he’s on an awesome team, or is he the reason. If by magic you put a “better” goalie, would they better, or is he a product of his environment, and has good skill

    – If Koski has not been “good”: if we could have by magic put in a “better” goalie, how much better would the team have been? Talbot was worse, and a few years ago he was great: was the team being bad this year, and good when playoffs on Talbot more than the team?

    – Goalies matter most: but why is that? Because they let in the goals or make the saves. I think we are in the dark ages when assessing goalies impact on team and vice-versa over time.

  141. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    OriginalPouzar: Ya – having players “in on” management decisions would set a pretty wild precedent and I don’t think that it would be advisable.

    I quite like the idea McDavid being in on this one specific (fify) management decision – in reality that means Team 97, and in so far as the article was suggesting, to get his input and advice. You have the best player in hockey tied down for many more seasons, after he took less money than was offered for the benefit of… management decisions.

    What exactly could be a negative outcome of having McDavid “in the room” on this decision? That McDavid doesn’t know what he’s talking about and makes the team worse? Highly unlikely and nearly impossible*. That McDavid has buy-in on the decision? How is that a bad thing? That it would undermine the GM going forward? No it wouldn’t: He’s brought in for advice on the hire, not on the execution of the GMs duties thereafter.

    I think where you fall on this probably indicates where you fall on the likelihood of 97 asking out. I personally think he would ask out before his contract expires at some point if this continues. OP you have said otherwise on multiple occasions “because contract”. I’m not willing to bet on it.

    *That could be the tagline for the sequel: Boys on the Bus 2: Highly Unlikely and Nearly Impossible

  142. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Bet on goalies.

    Remember when Jake Allen stole a series from Minnesota?

    I will never trust a goalie

  143. Darth Tu says:

    Professor Q:
    As a scientist who has studied in the Climate Change and Earth Sciences areas (and who has many much smarter and more talented/impactful colleagues/former colleagues), I am highly disappointed with some of the intelligent yet misinformed posters here.

    And, no, most of us do not make up stuff to get grants. We aren’t trying to trick you or the rest of the populus. We’re scientists. We research. We are peer-reviewed and adhere to scientific principles and methods. If we mess up, we have to try, try again. There are, however, issues with the research, publications, and University and capitalism systems, which inhabit various sectors of the community and society. Not immune to that.

    Scientific Studies: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw

    Effective scientific communication and outreach are imperative, however, and science coverage by MSM can be highly confusing and misleading, on numerous fronts, by misinterpreting scientific articles and studies and misrepresenting them in news print. It’s a constant battle and we all have to work to improve this.

    Using the collective “we” here, I think one of the big issues we as scientists have, is that people sometimes feel like we’re talking down to them. Like you say, effective communication is the key, we can quote stats till our faces turn blue, but there will always be some sections of society that will shout the stats and analysis down for failing to pass the “eyeball” test.

    Weird parallel there to the discussion regarding the Oilers re: player selection and acquisition…

  144. Doug McLachlan says:

    Darth Tu: I keep looking at Ottawa for this, they’re in danger of not making the Cap floor.If there’s a way to deal Lucic to them it kind of helps both organizations out.

    I have no idea what the trade would be, I’ve not looked at their assets, but they’re one of the first teams I’d be pitching to.

    Like you say, Looch would have to waive his NMC for this to happen.

    I know Ottawa is discussed but a couple of things make them an unlikely target, IMO.

    Hitting the floor is easy. If you don’t think so, keep drinking.

    Seriously, for teams wanting to hit the floor on the cheap the trick is to get a cap cost with a much reduced cash cost. Injured players who have a cap hit but are being paid by insurance are great for this. Lucic’s deal, even with my “trade after bonus” plan only provides a $2M differential. Post-bonus Lucic is owed $4M a year with a $6M cap hit. Not really a big “win” for Ottawa. If the Oilers retain $ it alters both the cap and cash aspects so retain $2M and it’s $2M cash for $4M cap hit. Maybe that’s of some assistance to Ottawa.

    The other way to go would be to do a swap of bad contracts. 4 years of Lucic (at a $6M cap hit for only $4M cash) for 3 years of Bobby Ryan (at a $7.25M cap hit and $7.5M cash). Would have to do the trade in a player to be named later fashion as Ryan is also owed a bonus on July 1st. Perhaps the difference of four years of Lucic for a total of $16M vs three years of Ryan for a total of $22.5M does mean something.

    The key, however, is Lucic would still need to agree to waive – as would, potentially, Ryan.

  145. godot10 says:

    Professor Q:
    As a scientist who has studied in the Climate Change and Earth Sciences areas (and who has many much smarter and more talented/impactful colleagues/former colleagues), I am highly disappointed with some of the intelligent yet misinformed posters here.

    And, no, most of us do not make up stuff to get grants. We aren’t trying to trick you or the rest of the populus. We’re scientists. We research. We are peer-reviewed and adhere to scientific principles and methods. If we mess up, we have to try, try again. There are, however, issues with the research, publications, and University and capitalism systems, which inhabit various sectors of the community and society. Not immune to that.

    Scientific Studies: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw

    Effective scientific communication and outreach are imperative, however, and science coverage by MSM can be highly confusing and misleading, on numerous fronts, by misinterpreting scientific articles and studies and misrepresenting them in news print. It’s a constant battle and we all have to work to improve this.

    Can you point me to a site where I can download the raw temperature data used in IPCC studies? And all the algorithms used for data adjustment?

    Science is first and foremost public, and ALL the data must be publicly available.

  146. Doug McLachlan says:

    RonnieB: in addition to lucic’s NMC, there is another small pinhole in that balloon. The maximum retention is 50% of the cap hit and the same percentage of the actual salary; thus the Oilers could retain max. $3 of the cap and $2 of the salary.

    Thanks for the clarification. Still allows for a trade post-bonus with a $2M retention and a retained $3M cap hit. I could see someone agreeing to taking on Lucic for only $2M a year if the cap isn’t a big issue.

    I know we all criticize him but I don’t believe he has no value in the league.

  147. Reja says:

    Andy Dufresne: This is the power of pressure/fear/self interest. It clouds our vision. It can make us irrational.

    I wonder how much McDavids recent comments have turned the heat up Bob Nicholson in particular?

    And how much it will affect the interview process?

    There is a type of bias built into the hiring process. We tend to hire “like minded” people. People who argree with us, who may challenge us, but ultimately who share our perspective. People who fit the culture (sound familiar). I would bet the large majority of the interviewee’s will come in selling, in large part,what they know the organization already beleives. The new GM will hit the ground running with an agenda that matches the groupthink that currently exists. IMO.

    Sure we’ll get significant “group speak” about Analytics and perhaps a hire or two. But will it be adopted in full force in the next 5 months. Highly unlikely.

    Conclusion: IMO the new GM will have to agree with the principles of draft and develop, over-ripen, speed kills, etc. as have already been voiced by Nicholson. He will however be tasked with the competing priority of accelerating the “makeover”….dumping salary and building a contender “now”, this summer.

    JP, any 2019 pick outside the top 10, any 2020 pick (lottery protected), any prospect not named Bouchard or Benson, and any roster player not named McDavid or Draisaitl, will be legal tender for this new GM. IMO

    Most Definitely

  148. Alpine says:

    Aren’t there rumours out there that the Orr Group, and by extension McDavid, influenced the Chiarelli hiring? I know Nicholson already had a connection with him and I’m sure Lowe deemed Chia a worthy successor. But It’s curious.

  149. deardylan says:

    On this day in History

    “SAIL ON, TYLER DELLOW”
    and
    G MONEY SAILS IN TO LOWETIDE

    Is there a correlation?

    PS. Kinger are you sure you want to take on GMoney in Goal Tender Logic? Its like when Bones takes on Spock – Kirk is highly amused

  150. G Money says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Yeah, I agree with this.

    If I want a quick look at a goalie, I use all sits sv% and GSAA.

    If I want to dig in a bit deeper, I’ll separate 5v5 vs pk sv%, roll in QS% and ld/md/hd sv%. In particular, pk sv% and ld sv% are noisy and don’t repeat much, so especially high/low numbers on either of those would be indicative of a hot/cold overvalued/undervalued goalie.

    If a team came to me and said we want help looking at goalies, I’d start by adding a Bayesian estimator for sv% to give a sense of how much confidence we can put in the numbers, rather than just fussing about ‘small’ or ‘large enough’ samples. (could also do this by e.g. bootstrap resampling, but I like Bayesian because see below).

    The Bayesian estimator would also be useful at looking at how the goalie has varied over seasons and/or teams, to get a sense of whether differences in observed performance represented a meaningful change, or just variance.

    Then I’d want to include some sort of aging curve (both games and age) for sv% and GSAA, because in player personnel assessment, it’s the future performance that matters.

    After all that, I think a team would be able to make significantly better assessments and decisions about goalies.

    But would still get more wrong than they’d get right.

    Because in the end, f**k goalies man.

  151. OriginalPouzar says:

    russ99: It’s done.

    New coach and new GM doesn’t have any attachment to old GM’s picks.

    The team threw him under the bus in the media about his injury. Even if his workout habits played a part, you can’t blame the player you’ve spent the better part of three years screwing up.

    He won’t go to Bakersfield and now can’t due to waivers, and he’s an RFA, his agent holds the cards.

    If I were his agent, I’d say trade or KHL.

    The only hope is if the front office is swept and the new GM/coach have a word.

    We can’t waste NHL sorties on developing players that aren’t developed anymore.Had he put up a season in the A like Benson, there would be a chance for him to come back.

    Mabye but maybe not.

    Just because the GM didn’t acquire the player doesn’t mean he doesn’t acknowledge he’s 20 (will be 21) with great pedigree and still a large upside.

  152. Reja says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Thanks

    China says a big hello

  153. YKOil says:

    I see Sekera landing in Ottawa (if he agrees to let exempt Ottawa’s name from his NT-list).

    Sekera
    FOR
    Condon

    Provides the bones of a workable deal. Flavour with 4th line players and/or ‘c’ level prospects and/or late draft picks as needed. If the team can get away with adding a 2020 4th round pick to sweeten the pot and close the deal then the Oilers should jump at it.

    Ottawa gets a reputable/workable LD to bolster the side, dumps a goalie they don’t play, gets closer to the floor without breaking a sweat, gets Sekera’s bonus $1 million against the Cap for the 2 years AND only pays an extra $1.5 million in actual cash for the first year (Condon is due $3 million cash in his last year). If Sekera plays to current ability then he may be tradable at the deadline (meaning there is a future value aspect to this for Ottawa) while Condon won’t ever bring them anything back in value.

    Edmonton, in turn, drops at least $3.1 million in Cap and makes room for Jones.

    Unless Edmonton is interested in NOT making the play-offs again, the team is best served buying-out Condon ($400k Cap year 1 and $1 million year 2) or burying the contract ($1.325 million in year 1). Depends on how much Cap the team wants to save.

    I say all that with the understanding that the REAL contract to move is that of Lucic, but if the Oilers want to clear Cap space and can’t find a home for Lucic, then this is a great play.

  154. G Money says:

    deardylan,

    Ha! That would be *very* interesting. Maybe I should replace him at The Athletic, I’ve written one article there and I have a standing invite from Mirtle to send more if I want.

    They are not in fact related, but I did hear rumours about the Dellow thing quite a while ago, and figured it had substance because he’d gone quiet on both Twitter and The Athletic.

    But I’m here because (once again), Woodguy peer pressured me into it, just like he peer pressured me to get a Twitter account.

  155. leadfarmer says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Quick has been injured. Price when he played struggled was recovering from injury. Halak wasn’t as bad as everyone made it sound and got sent down with a .915 save percentage and last year his team played the 5 Russels defensive scheme. Schneider has been injured.
    Something about goalies and injuries

  156. OriginalPouzar says:

    Andy Dufresne: His agent will almost certainly implement a full court press to get him traded to another team.

    His box cars this year 46gms4g5a9pts-14

    I’m not sure about trading him as you would be selling low, but keeping him carries a ton of risk as well. If you keep him and he has even a so-so year (33% improvement=17pts x 1.33 = 23pts), which is a high probability, his trade value will be minimal.

    Whereas moving him now packaged with Lucic IS significant value/return.

    IMO most mgt teams evaluation / calculus would show this as a net gain. Especially teams with a GM that has no responsibilty for having drafted him.

    Unless Puljujarvi leads to a 100% clean disposition of Lucic with no retention, I don’t add that sweetener (unless there are indications that there is no way Jesse will sign and will head back home unless traded).

  157. Trapper42 says:

    Todd Macallan,

    Seconded !!!

  158. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack: GOALERING =important

    It’s always a crap shoot. Teams are so evenly matched ….

    DAL & NYI have good goalering but I don’t particularly like them …..

    Guess we will see!thanks for the advice

    Bishop is hurt.

    I was going to take DAL as a dog vs WPG until that happened.

    I still might as WPG is a one line team both Buf and Morrissey aren’t 100% and Helebyuck remembered he was Helebyuck this year.

  159. dustrock says:

    G Money:
    deardylan,

    Ha! That would be *very* interesting. Maybe I should replace him at The Athletic, I’ve written one article there and I have a standing invite from Mirtle to send more if I want.

    They are not in fact related, but I did hear rumours about the Dellow thing quite a while ago, and figured it had substance because he’d gone quiet on both Twitter and The Athletic.

    But I’m here because (once again), Woodguy peer pressured me into it, just like he peer pressured me to get a Twitter account.

    Great to hear from you.

    Now tell me who to take in the playoff pool.

    Man I like the Flames but goalering….

  160. dustrock says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Bishop is hurt.

    I was going to take DAL as a dog vs WPG until that happened.

    I still might as WPG is a one line team both Buf and Morrissey aren’t 100% and Helebyuck remembered he was Helebyuck this year.

    Wait until he’s pulled and Brossoit comes in to save the day

  161. Darth Tu says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Bishop is hurt.

    I was going to take DAL as a dog vs WPG until that happened.

    I still might as WPG is a one line team both Buf and Morrissey aren’t 100% and Helebyuck remembered he was Helebyuck this year.

    I’m kind of hoping that Nashville meet the Peg in the second round of the playoffs. I’ll be down in Nashville for Easter weekend and was hoping to catch a game whilst there – some Canadian interest would be nice.

  162. Primetime says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Remember when Jake Allen stole a series from Minnesota?

    I will never trust a goalie

    I’ve mentioned Allen a few times on this site. Who do you think has a better chance of bouncing back to a serviceable starter?
    Allen ($4.35 x 2) vs Koskinen ($4.5 x 3).
    If there was a possibility of swap straight across, who would you take? (ignore the extra contract year).

    With Binnington needing to get paid, would you take Allen (with some salary retained) as your backup/1B? Is he a better bet than the current crop of UFA possibilities?

  163. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Reja: Who’s baby is that? What’s your angle? I’ll buy that”! ?

    Flintstones forever and ever.

  164. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Remember when Jake Allen stole a series from Minnesota?

    I will never trust a goalie

    I’ve examined every playoff series since 2007.

    The “better team” via shot/goal/depth metrics win 57% of the series.

    The team with the starting goalie who has the better all situation SV% wins 63% of the time.

    When the team has better shot/goal metrics AND better goalie they win 71% of the time.

    Note: goal metrics are full of SV% effects

  165. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    leadfarmer: That is a terrible idea

    So you are saying things might get a lot worse than they already are? Really?

  166. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    G Money:
    deardylan,

    Ha! That would be *very* interesting. Maybe I should replace him at The Athletic, I’ve written one article there and I have a standing invite from Mirtle to send more if I want.

    They are not in fact related, but I did hear rumours about the Dellow thing quite a while ago, and figured it had substance because he’d gone quiet on both Twitter and The Athletic.

    But I’m here because (once again), Woodguy peer pressured me into it, just like he peer pressured me to get a Twitter account.

    Jesus dude I just thought you should drop in here, not spend all day or write more for Mirtle.

    Get back to work on puckiq and quit pissing around goddamn it!!!

  167. JimmyV1965 says:

    G Money:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    I’m using Corsica data, but even looking at the HR data, I don’t agree that the data actually relates GSAA and team results much.

    Even using HR data, some of the best GSAA performances belong to goalies that are on teams that are average to bad by most defensive measures: Greiss/NYI,Kuemper/ARI, Andersen/TOR, and of course, the poster boy of Gibson/ANA.

    (I don’t fully buy into GSAA but at least it attempts, however imperfectly, to incorporate shot quality information)

    Yes, you can find examples of good goalie/good team, and bad/bad. It’s also easy to find good/bad and bad/good. Which suggests that the two are distinctly uncorrelated, which is what I’d expect.

    I’d assert that in the short term (i.e. season) goaltender performance drives team performance to a much greater degree than the other way around. That’s highly relevant to discussions of Koskinen and his 54 EDM games.

    I’d also suggest that the 180+ games Koskinen played in the KHL indicated that he would be a good backup/poor starter level goalie in the NHL, and I think that’s exactly what we’ve seen. In other words, no one but the Oilers management should be surprised by this, nor is there any evidence to suggest it will be better next year.

    If you forward the argument that long term exposure to the shot volume and quality issues of playing behind a consistently poor defense, or even bad team dynamics/culture, can fatigue and dispirit a goalie enough that it significantly affects his long-term performance, I’m on board with that argument. I don’t have proof, but I believe we’ve watched goalies go through it.

    I think there’s more than enough evidence to indicate that goalies drive team performance in the short-term though, and that’s where we would be at with Koskinen.

    He hasn’t been good, and I’d say that’s much more a reflection of his performance than on the (also poor) team.

    Same old Oilers. We’ve set him up to fail with an overpay that he likely can’t deliver on. The pressure will ramp up very quickly in the fall and we’ve slotted him into a position that he has yet to demonstrate he can handle. If things go bad early, it could really get ugly. He should have been pair like a backup. The expectations would be so much more manageable.

  168. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    G just let me know today that we’ll have on-ice results for multiple shift types (OTF, OZS, DZS etc) so I’m pretty freaking excited about that……

    Won’t have it for WoodMoney tiers as its pretty much impossible but will have it for “vs. All”

    Not sure when it will get on the site, but its coming…..

    Yay!

  169. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    deardylan:
    On this day in History

    “SAIL ON, TYLER DELLOW”
    and
    G MONEY SAILS IN TO LOWETIDE

    Is there a correlation?

    PS. Kinger are you sure you want to take on GMoney in Goal Tender Logic?Its like when Bones takes on Spock – Kirk is highly amused

    – I’d take the Kirk approach – look for a hot alien to use as a ruse make out with her, then throw some punches to get out it the trouble I’ve dug myself into while G has me locked up somewhere as he attempts to take over everything with his evil computer machine.

    – No way I take him on face to face.

  170. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    G Money:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Yeah, I agree with this.

    If I want a quick look at a goalie, I use all sits sv% and GSAA.

    If I want to dig in a bit deeper, I’ll separate 5v5 vs pk sv%, roll in QS% and ld/md/hd sv%. In particular, pk sv% and ld sv% are noisy and don’t repeat much, so especially high/low numbers on either of those would be indicative of a hot/cold overvalued/undervalued goalie.

    If a team came to me and said we want help looking at goalies, I’d start by adding a Bayesian estimator for sv% to give a sense of how much confidence we can put in the numbers, rather than just fussing about ‘small’ or ‘large enough’ samples. (could also do this by e.g. bootstrap resampling, but I like Bayesian because see below).

    The Bayesian estimator would also be useful at looking at how the goalie has varied over seasons and/or teams, to get a sense of whether differences in observed performance represented a meaningful change, or just variance.

    Then I’d want to include some sort of aging curve (both games and age) for sv% and GSAA, because in player personnel assessment, it’s the future performance that matters.

    After all that, I think a team would be able to make significantly better assessments and decisions about goalies.

    But would still get more wrong than they’d get right.

    Because in the end, f**k goalies man.

    So don’t hire the worst available goalie to be the back up like Pete did when he hired Gustafson?

  171. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    dustrock: Wait until he’s pulled and Brossoit comes in to save the day

    It’s too late by then

  172. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Darth Tu: I’m kind of hoping that Nashville meet the Peg in the second round of the playoffs.I’ll be down in Nashville for Easter weekend and was hoping to catch a game whilst there – some Canadian interest would be nice.

    I’m not sure NSH gets past STL….

  173. JimmyV1965 says:

    Reja: China says a big hello

    That’s the ironic part. While the west dries up money for coal fired power plants, China gladly steps in, heaping on all the political influence that comes with said cash. Nothing changes really, but an expansion of China’s sphere of influence.

  174. RonnieB says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Bishop is hurt.

    I was going to take DAL as a dog vs WPG until that happened.

    I still might as WPG is a one line team both Buf and Morrissey aren’t 100% and Helebyuck remembered he was Helebyuck this year.

    Don’t give up on Dallas yet. I had the same plan.

    Bishop is listed as “expected” to start Friday vs Chicago.

  175. G Money says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Just one stat, if he’d looked at just ONE DAMN STAT

  176. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Yeti: It’s not really in dispute among climate scientists. The projections coming out of climate science start at moderate warming and move to severe, depending on those assumptions. Even at the moderate end, the consequences will be very serious and felt first and foremost by those – just like Jesse Puljujarvi – who did least to cause the problem in the first place.

    So called climate scientists have proven absolutely nothing. All we have at this point are various theories and models, most of which have already or will likely be proven to be unreliable at best. The ability to predict the weather/climate a year or more in advance is about the same as predicting the stock market a year or more in advance. Southern California just experienced the coldest February in 122 years with the temperature never reaching 70°F. Not too much warming in that little part of the globe. And let’s not forget all the predictions our supposed scientists made in the 70’s that the world would run out of oil in twenty years. A lot passes for science these days that is anything but science.

  177. deardylan says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – I’d take the Kirk approach – look for a hot alien to use as a ruse make out with her, then throw some punches to get out it the trouble I’ve dug myself into while G has me locked up somewhere as he attempts to take over everything with his evil computer machine.

    – No way I take him on face to face.

    Kinger you rock and are Kirkesque. Glad you decided not to mindmeld with a nextgen cybernetichuman clone. You cant win directly. At least you have one ace in the hole…both of you were banned in the Lowetide multiverse and found way to return

    Just wanted to thank you for hooking us up with Inuit Art plus Oilers Combo with the lawyer in the same firm as a lawyer we know who is “relentless”

    That art loving lawyer advised me if he did it again..he would consider investment banking. Making billions is more lucrative than due diligence for trillionaires. Guess you need an extra hobby or you would go crazy.

    Back to KIRK

    Kirk would get that alien to go head to head with Gmoney baby. Gmoney creative soul mIxed with woodguy DNA reminds me of a super analyitics clone….

    KKKKKKHHHHHAAANNAN

    PSS. Love your Kyle Lowry story …. and last minute Buffalo roadrip idea. Can you send me a link with summary of that trip…only heard you were going and didnt read the analysis or aftermath.

  178. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    G just let me know today that we’ll have on-ice results for multiple shift types (OTF, OZS, DZS etc) so I’m pretty freaking excited about that……

    Won’t have it for WoodMoney tiers as its pretty much impossible but will have it for “vs. All”

    Not sure when it will get on the site, but its coming…..

    Yay!

    Dances jig!

  179. deardylan says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: So called climate scientists have proven absolutely nothing. All we have at this point are various theories and models, most of which have already or will likely be proven to be unreliable at best. The ability to predict the weather/climate a year or more in advance is about the same as predicting the stock market a year or more in advance. Southern California just experienced the coldest February in 122 years with the temperature never reaching 70°F. Not too much warming in that little part of the globe. And let’s not forget all the predictions our supposed scientists made in the 70’s that the world would run out of oil in twenty years. A lot passes for science these days that is anything but science.

    I hope you are right cried the earth.

  180. deardylan says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – I’d take the Kirk approach – look for a hot alien to use as a ruse make out with her, then throw some punches to get out it the trouble I’ve dug myself into while G has me locked up somewhere as he attempts to take over everything with his evil computer machine.

    – No way I take him on face to face.

    Ps. Check out the recent StarTrek Episode of Black Mirror on netflix. Just make sure you kids and wifey arent around as it is as blackdark as it mirror universe gets.

    Reminds me of Oilers…just when you think it cant get worse .. it just did 10x than you could ever expect…

  181. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Unless Puljujarvi leads to a 100% clean disposition of Lucic with no retention, I don’t add that sweetener (unless there are indications that there is no way Jesse will sign and will head back home unless traded).

    With a player winger coming back with a cap hit that expires soon. I want Josh Anderson one year left on his contract I believe at 1.75 mil and would possibly add a second if not Jones to that deal. I would want be free and clear of Lucic no retention a fresh start and Josh would pot 30-40 I think easily with Connor and Draisaitl that man can skate shoot and goes to the effing net I really like his game.

  182. Reja says:

    JimmyV1965: That’s the ironic part. While the west dries up money for coal fired power plants, China gladly steps in, heaping on all the political influence that comes with said cash. Nothing changes really, but an expansion of China’s sphere of influence.

    If they put Scrubbers on the once a week new boilers being built in China that would help immensely To much money. People have no clue wants going on there Alberta is just a pimple on the globe in the big picture.

  183. Glovjuice says:

    Ben:
    Before they add speed or skill or grit or character or coke machines or waterbugs or what-have-you, the org needs to focus on adding one thing: intelligence.

    Intelligence in terms of raw ability to assess, strategize and action, and intelligence in terms of data.

    Personally, I get zero impression that the people in charge of adding intelligence are intelligent enough to recognize intelligence even if it intelligenced them right in the backside.

    I like this.

  184. OriginalPouzar says:

    Looks like no Yamamoto again tonight for the Condors.

    Come on Keith, help them out – send at least one of the three down (Joe G., Currie, Malone) – they are all tweeners but material players for a depleted Condor lineup – there is material benefit to continued team success of the prospects.

  185. Glovjuice says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I would bet a fair sum that in an alternate universe where MacT isn’t fired that Dellow heads up EDM’s analytics dept, Hall is still here, they didn’t trade for Reinhart (rumour is MacT was against it) and if MacT improved the D EDM being in the playoffs is a given at the start of the past few seasons.

    I have opined many times that keeping MacT as GM would have the Oilers in a better spot, much better, than they are at now. I simply think he negotiated and thought more/harder than Chia. MacT was not incompetent per se. Chia is.

  186. Halfwise says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: So called climate scientists have proven absolutely nothing. All we have at this point are various theories and models, most of which have already or will likely be proven to be unreliable at best. The ability to predict the weather/climate a year or more in advance is about the same as predicting the stock market a year or more in advance. Southern California just experienced the coldest February in 122 years with the temperature never reaching 70°F. Not too much warming in that little part of the globe. And let’s not forget all the predictions our supposed scientists made in the 70’s that the world would run out of oil in twenty years. A lot passes for science these days that is anything but science.

    The key point here is that all of the fear is based on models. Climate is more complex than stock markets, where models don’t work.

    The central weakness of the models is allowing runaway cycles of feedback. Permafrost! CO2! Warming! More thawed permafrost!

    Hasn’t happened in earth’s history. Ever. Think about that. Now tell me how my carbon tax will affect the climate.

  187. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    G Money:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Just one stat, if he’d looked at just ONE DAMN STAT

    I know right??!?!?!??

  188. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Glovjuice: I have opined many times that keeping MacT as GM would have the Oilers in a better spot, much better, than they are at now. I simply think he negotiated and thought more/harder than Chia. MacT was not incompetent per se. Chia is.

    I think you’re right in retrospect.

    I cheered dumping MacT and hiring Chiarelli.

    Be careful what you wish for something something

  189. Glovjuice says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    I have the faintest hope that Oiler fans were saved when Burgers put his foot in his mouth with Rieder.

    Katz is a distant rumour of an owner, but we are told that management stupidity particularly when it’s related to season ticket renewals gets his attention.

    Much as Lowe’s Tier 2 comment was finally ‘a bridge too far’ for the owner to ignore, I have this faint hope that Burgers, who was likely on a short leash anyway, pissed away the last of his goodwill with that PR debacle.

    One can’t underrate how mind numbingly idiotic it was for a C suite exec to lay all of the blame for a failed plan at one underachieving grunt. Just when you think this franchise can’t get anymore bush league, they fire another bullet into their foot.

    Totally, Burgers should have had many, sweaty, sleepless nights since that display of ignorance and mindbending stupidity.

  190. Nix says:

    Georgexs:
    The way Hitch has handled his goalies is interesting. Every other move, PC had full autonomy. But Koski was a “group decision.” And the Talbot-Stolarz trade was a Gretzky/(group decision) move.

    I’m confused about whether Hitch will have a role in the org. going forward. He’s getting it out there that he’d be happy to come back. But his usage of his goalies has been more scorched earth than “building for the future” or “taking some positives out of an otherwise disappointing season.”

    I don’t know if it’s his intent but I also don’t know how he could make Keith Gretzky and group decision look worse.

    When Koski struggled earlier in the season, Hitch would go back and forth with Talbot. Now, with Koski struggling again, the backup is rarely seen. Just 1 start since he’s got here. It could be because the backup can’t play because of nagging knee problems. Which doesn’t reflect well on group decision. Given what they should’ve know about the young man’s knees before making the trade. It could also be because, in Hitch’s eyes, the backup REALLY can’t play. It must take Hitch a lot to reach that conclusion because he was content to relieve Koski with an ineffective Talbot. Which is throwing even more shade at group decision.

    The result of the backup not being able to play is the anointed starter is left in through a long stretch of struggles, left in for who knows what reason in the 3rd period last night as an example. So the fans are convinced the starter can’t play (based on his actual play during the unusually heavy workload for a first year NHL starter). The starter who group decision signed for the next 3 years.

    There’s obviously a simpler explanation but I favor palace intrigue. Hitch has been rudely told there’s no chance he’ll coach next season. He sees what goes on. He feels badly used. So he’s sticking the two decisions that group decision has to own right into group decision’s ribs. He has a good sense of the mood of the mob. Once it turns on its goaltender, there will be blood. There was a post last night about buying out Koski’s contract… BEFORE the contract even starts!! Hitch didn’t start the fire but he’s happy to spread it. It’s his public service to his home town. To wake up the king. Hitch is Gandalf freeing Theoden from Grima Wormtongue.

    I’ll take tolkienesque palace intrigue over boring ol’ occams razor 99 times out of 10 my friend.

  191. hunter1909 says:

    giddy: Calling MacT an analytics supporter is a stretch. It’s fairly obvious MacT brought Dellow on-board at Eakins request (read: plea for help) after his first season being a complete disaster–Eakins was vocally supportive of fancies, MacT on the other hand did not speak much to them.

    Re MacT… Recovering alcoholics in their 50’s who fly all the way to Sweden to watch a player then 5 minutes later announce “I’ve seen everything I need” are hardly likely to have the intellectual capacity to learn an entirely new system of data management.

    Katz promised the earth to Edmonton people but his OBC are incompetent therefore Katz has presided over a 13 season era of historically NHL bad performance – which should it continue will permanently enshrine Katz in the Ballard/Wirtz HoF.

  192. hunter1909 says:

    Glovjuice: Totally, Burgers should have had many, sweaty, sleepless nights since that display of ignorance and mindbending stupidity.

    He won’t lose a wink.

  193. Glovjuice says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    G Money,

    Good to see you back G. Now we can mourn Rush’s retirement together.

    Floyd, Sabbath, Beatles, and Rush are my Rushmore.

  194. hunter1909 says:

    deardylan: I hope you are right cried the earth.

    Funny how effete “science” witters on while expecting respect even though so much of it has been exposed as politically driven fake science.

    As a former construction veteran I have seen first hand what the the problem facing this world is: both overpopulation and overconstruction. Of course modern, soft bellied + wholeheartedly godless “science” cannot understand such a simple principle.

    I’m not even going to mention the blatant hypocrisy of the Boston/NY/Washington DC chattering classes supporting left wing climate ventures while celebrating their Brazilian hardwood flooring.

  195. OriginalPouzar says:

    Condors dominating the Moose at evens again – shots 9-1 with 5 to go in the first.

  196. OriginalPouzar says:

    Benson with a phenomenal cross-ice seeing eye feed to Marody on the PP and somehow it didn’t go in – maybe a post – not sure yet – Marody had his hands in the air.

    What a pass though.

  197. Glovjuice says:

    Cassandra: Conflating Chiarelli and Dellow as victims of the old regime is a rich bit of revisionism even coming from you.

    Dellow was hired by MacT and routinely praised by Eakins, whom MacT also hired and didn’t want to fire.These are the analytic supporters within the organization.

    Chiarelli, on the other hand, got rid of Dellow when he had the chance, didn’t use analytics, and with every public statement he made demonstrated a profound ignorance on the subject.

    The situations are not at all analogous.There was a dramatic change in the way in which the organization was run when Chiarelli was hired the consequence of which was obvious from the day of the Reinhart trade and hasn’t waned for a second since.

    You have been on team eye test since the beginning, a relentless critic of people like Dellow, Chiarelli’s deepest and most consistent defender at this site.For you now to pretend that none of this is true, to deflect blame toward mythical creatures, is dishonest and sad.Just admit you were wrong and be done with it.

    Reinhard trade is the most negatively impactful in Oilers history vis-a-via draft it took place and lottery win. Devastating.

  198. hunter1909 says:

    deardylan,

    Nothing personal lol.

    Pity we can’t seem to be able to talk about the hockey team.

  199. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: With a player winger coming back with a cap hit that expires soon. I want Josh Anderson one year left on his contract I believe at 1.75 mil and wouldpossibly add a second if not Jones to that deal. I would want be free and clear of Lucic no retention a fresh start and Josh would pot 30-40 I think easily with Connor and Draisaitl that man can skate shoot and goes to the effingnet I really like his game.

    Well, that’s different if there is additional value coming back over just ridding of Lucic. With that said, I don’t think Jesse currently has enough trade value for the trade you propose – not for Josh Anderson on an amazing contract with an RFA expiry.

    The issue is the decreased value of Jesse vis-a-vis his continued potential. If we could pull off that trade, sure, even with Jones, however, I don’t think its nearly enough due to the reduced value of Jesse.

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