When Nuge was Young

My favourite Oilers draft this decade is 2011. People forget things about drafts, each season offers a fresh pile of foolscap to put on top of the pile and the stuff that has been there eight years is worn and yellow. Why do I like Edmonton’s 2011 draft? It’s every mistake in one draft, and they still came out with three gems.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group.INSANE NEW OFFER IS HERE!

  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s procurement list for his rumored move to Edmonton will include front-office personnel
  • New Jonathan Willis: A Milan Lucic trade is at the top of the to-do list for the Oilers’ next GM.
  • New Jonathan Willis: Why Edmonton should expand its GM shortlist now that Kelly McCrimmon is out of the running
  • New Lowetide: Should Oilers practice more patience in adding Evan Bouchard to the roster?
  • Jonathan Willis: Is Ken Holland yesterday’s man or the ideal GM candidate for the Oilers?
  • Lowetide: Jesse Puljujarvi and his uncertain future with the Oilers
  • Lowetide: ‘I see something special’: Are Oilers prepared to make Caleb Jones a fixture on the roster next season?
  • Jonathan Willis: Gritty comeback performance sends Edmonton’s farm team to the second round of the AHL playoffs.
  • Lowetide: Dylan Cozens might be ideal fit for Oilers at No. 8 overall in the 2019 draft
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Hard to please, but easy to work for’: How Sean Burke’s philosophy as a GM would benefit the Oilers.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A dogged realist, Kelly McCrimmon’s resume makes him an attractive candidate for the Oilers GM job
  • New Lowetide: Is this the season the Oilers take the plunge and draft a USHL player in the first round?
  • Jonathan Willis: Top Oilers prospect Evan Bouchard stars in his first AHL game as Condors dominate.
  • Lowetide: Adam Larsson’s importance to the Oilers and why trading him is a bad idea.
  • Lowetide: Tyler Benson’s comparables offer Oilers fans plenty of hope for the future.
  • Lowetide: Making the call on the Oilers’ RFAs with a new general manager on the way.
  • Lowetide: Red Wings front office shuffle could impact Oilers’ future.
  • Jonathan Willis: Potential coaching candidates and why the Oilers don’t need to rush the GM search to get one
  • Lowetide: The Milan Lucic saga rolls into Year 4 for Oilers with no easy answers
  • Jonathan Willis: Who stays and who goes? An early projection of which players will remain on the Oilers’ roster in 2019-20
  • LowetideHow high can these Condors fly?
  • Lowetide: The Oilers possible summer trade pieces, and which longtime players might be saying goodbye.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ten prospects likely to be available when the Oilers make their first-round pick

I do these posts called “Harvest Moon” on the Saturday of draft weekend. Have done them for many years. Sometimes I go back and look at them, mostly to see how they shine and to identify players who made the grade.

The 2011 draft had terrific positives and enormous negatives. Edmonton continued on the “Alex Plante is slow but that’s okay” train by taking David Musil, and plucked two goalies who wouldn’t make it just to prove they could do it. They would repeat it in 2014. It also featured a top 100 pick (forward) who was never going to score enough to make it in the NHL. Edmonton repeated that many times during the decade. Here are my original comments from 2011:

HARVEST MOON 2011

#1 overall- C Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: Immediately the best prospect in the system, RNH is a vital pick in the development of this cluster. If he is in fact an elite level playmaker, the Oilers have at least four outstanding candidates for chemistry on the top line and powerplay.

#19 overall- D Oscar Klefbom: I talk about a complete defender a lot because they’re really important to a team’s overall success. Klefbom’s numbers in the SEL don’t tell the whole offensive story, but when facing kids his own age the young man posted impressive crooked numbers. I’ll have a ranking of the top 20 prospects (summer edition) tomorrow morning; Klfebom is going to be an interesting player to slot.

#31 overall- D David Musil: He was safely in my top 30. I’m all for players with a nice range of skills, but defensemen who can make the safe play have value. Red Line ranked him as the 5th best defenseman in the entire draft, one behind Klefbom.

#62 overall- G Samu Perhonen: Matt Bugg dropped by Nation Radio today and riffed on the depth selections in this draft. In regard to Perhonen, he gave me the impression that this is the ultimate risk/reward pick. We could be looking at a quality starter or a dud, with dud rising.

#74 overall- C Travis Ewanyk: Future role player has a nice range of skills and therefore a few slots he could fill. PF size and style, he can win faceoffs and projects as a future checking center. I don’t know that he’s going to bring enough offense to make the NHL.

#92 overall- D Dillon Simpson: Bugg described a player who has a nice range of skills but some chaos too. I have no idea if he or a Brandon Davidson type will end up winning the day, but I think that’s the race he’s going to be involved in.

#114 overall- C Tobias Rieder: Redline Report loves him, describing Rieder as an “undersized, but exceptionally smart playmaking winger with excellent offensive instincts and creativity.” Rieder impressed as a rookie in a very good league and according to Bugg is a guy who will work hard in tough areas to win battles. He was taken at the point in the draft where you shouldn’t expect anything, but it’s also true that Rieder is probably a better NHL prospect than a couple of the kids Edmonton picked before him.

#122 overall- D Martin Gernat: Huge kid (6.05, 187) and considered somewhat similar to Marincin (lower ceiling) in style. Raw prospect, will take time but he’s certainly a player of interest.

#182 overall- G Frans Tuohimaa: Oilers saw him good and Bugg suggested he’s a guy they might like to come over in fall 2012. Has a nice SP in junior.

That was an incredible draft. Edmonton drafted a slow defenseman, two goalies who wouldn’t see the light of day, two more defensemen who would fall shy of NHL employment and a checking forward with no bat. And yet, three NHL players climbed to safety. Two in the first round, and one No. 1 overall, but in a decade where the Oilers will have drafted inside the top 10 a total of nine times, it’s my pick for top drawer. You?

I would suggest to you that this summer will be the opposite. Peter Chiarelli put himself in cap hell and with rumors this year’s cap may not reach $83 million things might be sticky again. Here’s a quick look at the numbers.

Once we get confirmation on Holland, we can drill down on possible decisions. I do believe (and have mentioned) the second goalie is more likely to be a veteran (Brian Elliott is my choice, your mileage may vary). I also think it’s possible we see a buyout. Gagner? Sekera? Don’t know.

If I were king, shopping a veteran defenseman (Russell or Sekera) would be the first order of the day, replaced by Caleb Jones. I know everyone wants a righty puck mover and there’s talk of dealing Adam Larsson, I’m staying the hell away from that noise. I also think Holland will value Larsson highly, that’s a positive.

CONDORS

Got screwed. Awful call. The Hockey Gods owe the Condors, they can pay it back tonight. I’ll have a GDT up later, and we’ll talk draft tomorrow.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

168 Responses to "When Nuge was Young"

  1. Ben says:

    Can we get Christmas Card from a Hooker in Minneapolis when they announce the Holland hiring? Or something else soaked in heartbreaking nostalgia…

    I really thought Gernat was the real deal. I really did. *sigh*

  2. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – So is Holland a lock? It’s a process I can’t recall. It seems from an outsider that they targeted McCrimmon but because they couldn’t interview him they spent 6 weeks gathering information and calling Hunter back twice and getting Stauffer to say that Keith was on a plane when Chia did bad stuff!

    – Then in a nanosecond Vegas promotes McCrimmon. So they are all in Holland who hasn’t signed so it’s leaked while we wait.

    – I don’t recall A GM being offered job and having to wait publicly for him to accept.

    – Strange days.

  3. texmex says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    It’s a really odd situation. That’s one of the down falls of social media, too much info is leaked / made up.

    If I’m mark hunter, if offered the job, I politely decline knowing I was third choice. I’d stay with my successful junior team, run Team Canada with my brother at the WJHC. A team will come calling soon enough, a team who have me 1st on their list. This whole process just reaffirms what a gong show OEG is

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    That Klefbom picks shines – in particular when seeing some full on busts drafted around him.

    Musil was a solid pick at the time – player just never developed and I’m not sure why.

    Rieder turned out to be a great pick at that spot – unfortunately, not for the Oilers.

  5. Dustylegnd says:

    I looked at that forward NHL depth chart LT posted and I puked in my mouth a little……beyond bad….god help Nuge with those wingers and god help the 3rd line period

    In other news “we gave Ken Holland everything he asked for and he can t decide if he wants to take the job”

    Just such an inspirational situation….a lion in the winter, with a monumental task infront of him…you have to wonder if he has the energy…

    If Holland does have the energy, he is going to have to hire a slew of young brilliant energetic assistants to help him, this is not a job for 1 man……good luck mate….ohh and you are capped out

    McKenzie reporting that Yzerman will hire Verbeek as his right hand man…le sighh….NIcholson is the final nail in the Oilers coffin

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    I really worry about this summer because significant moves can only be made with cap going out and that is either (a) paying to open it up (via short-sighted buyouts, asset sweeteners or retention) or trading the few good players out.

    We require the veteran goalie and have the cap space to do it.

    Cap space to acquire any significant additional player will require opening it up. I prefer one more year of the Pirri type bets as opposed to expensive and established forwards but that’s just me.

    If Holland can get that clean disposition or Russell…..

  7. Caribbeerman says:

    A Holland hire is all about credibility and stability but that does not necessarily mean he is the best person for the job. But I get it and I can support it. The next big question after that is who he will keep and who he will cut from hockey operations.If he can properly staff his operations and incorporate analytics that’s a good start. Choosing a coach and building a roster will follow and if he makes sure to surround himself with good people those decisions get a bit easier. But just having stability and credibility may ensure that the process evolves nicely for Oiled fans.

  8. Professor Q says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Well, and the fact that he just re-upped in Detroit.

    That’s why people are saying he has to mull it over first, to decide where his future will go. Being promoted to step away and make room for Yzerman and Verbeek? Fine. But then you’re offered another job immediately after that from a rival organization and you don’t think of your perception around the league if you accepted it immediately, without some pondering?

    It’s like if you were promoted to General Manager of a large retail store, to make way for the young, star-like Store Manager, who is returning to your store (he was a great Supervisor and then Manager for many years, increased productivity and taught all the new employees very well) after a few years away managing a store in a different city.

    Then you, too, get an offer to become the Store Manager of a store in another city, immediately after being promoted in your own store. A step down, but more hands-on and a change of environment.

    Would you not take time to mull over what you want for your future?

  9. Woogie63 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Strange days.

    I don’t live in Edmonton anymore, but travel regularly to Edmonton to conduct business and still have season tickets to the Oilers.

    The Edmonton hockey scene is a more than a little strange. The new and old media has helped make this little northern market past passionate. The location and market has always been an issue for players, but now we can clearly see the hockey operations jobs are an issue for managers. Why put up with all the passion, why have your family live through the passion.

    I am not hating on Edmonton, in 2019 it’s just not a top option for hockey people.

  10. SVR says:

    I agree with trying to move one of Sekera or Russel and replacing with Jones. Need to make some cap room and Jones is ready. He or Lagesson can fill that 3ld spot depending on who has a better training camp

  11. 36 percent body fat says:

    -russel out for what ever you can get
    -benning out for brown
    -bear used a sweetner to dump lucic
    -jones up, perssons to start season, bouchard start AHL
    -offer sheet Kapanen 4.225 x 2 costs a second
    -minor one or two year signing on vets to fill holes, make sure they are off the books, burriable or tradeable if not in the playoff

    might make playoffs but not competitive, will be set up for the next year

    2021
    -sign Hall, wishfull thinking but lets see
    -sekera out
    -If Jones can emerge 2020, (controversial) trade nurse for a trouba type (with good contract). nurse is good but he is way too overvalued by the oilers, he has major holes in his game and you cant give a d like him more that 6m. sell high
    -Larsson for a solid 3rd LD
    -Dont want to trade Jesse, but is moving him for a younger prospect that doesnt need to be protected better asset management at this point?

    2021?
    benson connor kapanen
    hall drai yamo
    khaira Marody brown
    Currie Gamberdella ?????? McLeod

    Klefbom Trouba-Type
    Jones Bouchard
    Solid 3LD Perssons
    Lagesson

    Lot of work, but cap space would be good and still have Maksimov, McLeod, Cozens, Samorukov, in the system

  12. McNuge93 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I really worry about this summer because significant moves can only be made with cap going out and that is either (a) paying to open it up (via short-sighted buyouts, asset sweeteners or retention) or trading the few good players out.

    We require the veteran goalie and have the cap space to do it.

    Cap space to acquire any significant additional player will require opening it up.I prefer one more year of the Pirri type bets as opposed to expensive and established forwards but that’s just me.

    If Holland can get that clean disposition or Russell…..

    I’m with you on a Russell trade. Lucic too, but much less likely. I would like to keep Sek. I think he can give us depth at D and maybe be a good partner for young D’s. Maybe trade Russell, buyout Manning, sign a backup and as you say add a couple of middle six wingers. This may mean no playoffs but we’d have a shot. We would be depending on one of the young D to succeed .i.e Jones or Persson.

    The coaching hire looms large. No more old style coaches like Hitch or McL.

  13. OriginalPouzar says:

    I missed the OT in the name of sleep as I wake up in the middle of the night (game just finished as I woke up – crazy) – what was the bad call about?

  14. Dustylegnd says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I really worry about this summer because significant moves can only be made with cap going out and that is either (a) paying to open it up (via short-sighted buyouts, asset sweeteners or retention) or trading the few good players out.

    We require the veteran goalie and have the cap space to do it.

    Cap space to acquire any significant additional player will require opening it up.I prefer one more year of the Pirri type bets as opposed to expensive and established forwards but that’s just me.

    If Holland can get that clean disposition or Russell…..

    No point worrying OP…the new GM gets unlimited freebies this summer to fix the gong show of Cap mismanagement……he needs to tear every last bandage off and do it yesterday

    Deal Lucic…do what ever it takes

    Trade one or both of Sekera and Russel

    Figure out what to do with Koskinen

    Fire these people, in this order… Rich Sutter and his entire staff for Gross incompetence, Scott Howson….he helped run 2 NHL franchises into the abyss, MacT (guilt by association) Bob Green for his role in the Reinhart deal……Bill Scott for his role in cap mismanagement…campaign to seize POHO from Nickle Bob

    These are necessary evils to finally exercise every last demon from the decade of darkness….there is nothing to worry about….he can not possibly make it worse….he just can’t….I will actually enjoy the theatre and look forward to different days…maybe not better days but different days

  15. Rondo says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    They picked Klefbom probably because their pick Mark McNeil was gone.

    They were in the coke machine phase.

  16. Todd Macallan says:

    Speaking of my favourite draft in which they also made horrific mistakes, I’ll go with the obvious: 2015. Admittedly that’s a pretty heavy peach.

  17. Bryan says:

    Holland hasn’t done everything perfectly but he has been the GM of a well respected organization for 22 years. Edmonton could certainly use some of that stability and respectability. He has always believed in having a strong management team so the important hires will be who he brings in to assist him to prevent some of the cap blunders in Detroit from happening again. Hopefully he transitions into more of a POHO and has a couple of bright AGMs underneath him. Also he has great familiarity with Todd Nelson so that could be a good thing.

  18. jtblack says:

    Draft Eligible D Man Bowen Byram had 4 Assists last night in the 1st game of the WHL Final.

    He leads the WHL in playoff scoring with 22 points.

  19. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    “Musil was a solid pick at the time –”

    OP, couldn’t we say this about every player then?

  20. OriginalPouzar says:

    McNuge93: I’m with you on a Russell trade. Lucic too, but much less likely. I would like to keep Sek. I think he can give us depth at D and maybe be a good partner for young D’s. Maybe trade Russell, buyout Manning, sign a backup and as you say add a couple of middle six wingers. This may mean no playoffs but we’d have a shot. We would be depending on one of the young D to succeed .i.e Jones or Persson.

    The coaching hire looms large. No more old style coaches like Hitch or McL.

    A clean Russell disposition would be fantastic.

    I don’t know how they fill that 2RD hole for a one/two year stop gap though – I don’t see Stralman coming without an over pay on AAV or term – neither of which are options. Tyler Myers will be the main D UFA over pay. I’d be OK with acquiring Faulk or Spurgeon but don’t want to re-sign them so are only willing to pay one-year rental acquisition costs which won’t fly with their teams.

    Maybe Sekera can fill that 2RD hole – probably alot to ask but he may mesh well with a skater like Nurse. I imagine that Nurse will be better with a steadier guy like Sekera.

    I’m not sure they need to buy out Manning – with $1M retained, they should be able to move him.

  21. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dustylegnd: No point worrying OP…the new GM gets unlimited freebies this summer to fix the gong show of Cap mismanagement……he needs to tear every last bandage off and do it yesterday

    Deal Lucic…do what ever it takes

    Trade one or both of Sekera and Russel

    Figure out what to do with Koskinen

    Fire this people in this order Rich Sutter and his entire for Gross incompetence, Scott Howson….he helped run 2 NHL franchises into the abyss, MacT (guilt by association) Bob Green for his role in the Reinhart deal……Bill Scott for his role in cap mismanagement…campaign to seize POHO from Nickle Bob

    These are necessary evils to finally exercise every last demon from the decade of darkness….there is nothing to worry about….he can not possibly make it worse….he just can’t….I will actually enjoy the theatre and look forward to different days…maybe not better days but different days

    That is the question, does the new manager get a couple of years to fix the cap situation or will he have a mandate for playoffs this year?

    1) Yes, moving Lucic is a primary goal this off-season but I can’t agree with “any cost”. I don’t move the 8th overall in order to get rid of him. I could move a Jones but it would have to be a fairly clean disposition with that cost.

    2) Russell, yes, Sekera as an inferior option for sure. I am looking forward to seeing Reggie without 2 years of rust, with a training camp and without being 5 months of games behind the rest of the league.

    3) They have to run with Mikko as the #1 (or 1A/1B) guy. An established back-up/1B guy is required but, they signed him to that contract and have to run with it in year one. Maybe he will be OK with an improved defensive group (better puck moving) and a true tandem role.

  22. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack:
    OriginalPouzar,

    “Musil was a solid pick at the time –”

    OP, couldn’t we say this about every player then?

    Not really – sometimes they went off the board early with guys like Moroz.

  23. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Professor Q,

    – I agree with all that it’s just the public display of a process that I don’t recall in other markets but maybe I don’t lt attention as much

    – But it is an eye opener. And on my business lense/hat Pretty Mickey Mouse

    – Basically hoping that Holland and Ketith > Chia and MaCT.

    – Holland would presumably have better practices in terms of organization and structure so there’s that.

    – And Lou has done well after he moved from NJ so who knows.

  24. Dustylegnd says:

    OriginalPouzar: A clean Russell disposition would be fantastic.

    I don’t know how they fill that 2RD hole for a one/two year stop gap though – I don’t see Stralman coming without an over pay on AAV or term – neither of which are options. Tyler Myers will be the main D UFA over pay. I’d be OK with acquiring Faulk or Spurgeon but don’t want to re-sign them so are only willing to pay one-year rental acquisition costs which won’t fly with their teams.

    Maybe Sekera can fill that 2RD hole – probably alot to ask but he may mesh well with a skater like Nurse. I imagine that Nurse will be better with a steadier guy like Sekera.

    I’m not sure they need to buy out Manning – with $1M retained, they should be able to move him.

    Who is our #1 right D again??? isn’t he the 2 RD on a good team…just clarifying reality..

    Cale Makar steps in the the NHL playoffs scores 5 points in 7 games and is Colrados best puck moving D man he also shoots right

    Colrado also has the 1 best line in hockey and the second most talented player in hockey as well as tthe #4 overall this pick this year…thank god hey are not in the Pacific

    On the plus side, in January it looked very dark for Colorado…so who knows

  25. Dustylegnd says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    all valid points and “any cost” was Hyperbole for sure…it is a very tough job…just a giant mess

  26. sumaclab says:

    If I am targeting a player its Huberdeau. Decent cap hit. Give them JP and a 3rd round pick. They need cap space if they want to sign Bob and Panarin.

  27. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Russell is the best option to give away. After July 1 he has to provide a list of suitable teams he can be traded to. Oilers will accept the best draft pick we can get from that list.

    Next year’s defensive units will be

    Klefbom-Larson
    Sekera-Nurse
    Jones-Benning
    Persson

    First call ups
    Lagesson
    Bear
    Bouchard

  28. McNuge93 says:

    OriginalPouzar: A clean Russell disposition would be fantastic.

    I don’t know how they fill that 2RD hole for a one/two year stop gap though – I don’t see Stralman coming without an over pay on AAV or term – neither of which are options. Tyler Myers will be the main D UFA over pay. I’d be OK with acquiring Faulk or Spurgeon but don’t want to re-sign them so are only willing to pay one-year rental acquisition costs which won’t fly with their teams.

    Maybe Sekera can fill that 2RD hole – probably alot to ask but he may mesh well with a skater like Nurse. I imagine that Nurse will be better with a steadier guy like Sekera.

    I’m not sure they need to buy out Manning – with $1M retained, they should be able to move him.

    Faulk would be a good target for one year. Maybe Benning for Faulk. But Carolina with their current success may not want to change up their D. I wouldn’t want to commit to amyone for more than a year to leave room for our prospects to move up (hopefully).

  29. Bag of Pucks says:

    jtblack:
    OriginalPouzar,

    “Musil was a solid pick at the time –”

    OP, couldn’t we say this about every player then?

    He’s using solid as a synonym for immobile.

  30. McNuge93 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Professor Q,

    – I agree with all that it’s just the public display of a process that I don’t recall in other markets but maybe I don’t lt attention as much

    – But it is an eye opener. And on my business lense/hat Pretty Mickey Mouse

    – Basically hoping that Holland and Ketith > Chia and MaCT.

    – Holland would presumably have better practices in terms of organization and structure so there’s that.

    – And Lou has done well after he moved from NJ so who knows.

    Is anyone else concerned how similar Holland looks like Milbury?

  31. Bag of Pucks says:

    GM wirh previous Cup pedigree being put out to pasture in favour of new blood. The Holland hire looks an awful lot like Chiarelli on the surface.

    That said, there is verbal over the years that I like from Holland on cap management. He doesn’t believe in trading skill for grit or paying a premium for grit. Don’t see him making the Lucic mistake. One of his big mantras used to be a pledge to not spend big on goalies as well. But that seems to have changed after he won with Hasek.

  32. Glass says:

    I think Spurgeon is a good target to acquire and extend.

    After trading Russell then acquiring Spurgeon:

    Klefbomb/Spurgeon
    Nurse/Larsson
    Sekera/Bear
    Persson

    I trade Benning to either shave a little cap or get some forward help. Also gives us the luxury of using Sekera to break in Bear & Persson at this level and see what we have before Bouchard makes the team full-time in 2020/21.

    I think Larsson is a great top 4 defensive D – he just probably shouldn’t be playing on the top pairing anymore.

  33. meanashell11 says:

    What if Holland is coming in as POHO and they are negotiating with Hunter as GM and want to announce both at the same time?

  34. Lowetide says:

    For The Athletic: IF Ken Holland is coming to Edmonton, expect considerable change. This is not a formidable management group, and there is no record of success

    https://theathletic.com/961415/2019/05/04/ken-hollands-procurement-list-for-his-rumored-move-to-edmonton-will-include-front-office-personnel/

  35. silasbengtsson says:

    Glass,

    Problem with Spurgeon is gonna be cost. Their GM is said to love what he brings and he’s an excellent Dman across almost all metrics. In a deal for him, we might have to be ready to give up Nuge. I think we could craft a package deal around Nuge, Puljujarvi and pick for Spurgeon, Zucker and Eriksson-Ek.

    I’m not keen on trading Nuge, but I think that’s what it would take.

  36. JimmyV1965 says:

    sumaclab:
    If I am targeting a player its Huberdeau. Decent cap hit. Give them JP and a 3rd round pick. They need cap space if they want to sign Bob and Panarin.

    Would you trade RNH for JP and a third?

  37. Bumblebpete says:

    If Holland becomes our GM, would he consider Todd Nelson as head coach? He did hire him for the Griffins.

  38. McSorley33 says:

    Hey, you can be our new GM but here is a 2 page list of guys you CAN’T fire……

    Nicholson:

    “We have successfully narrowed down our list of candidates to 2 people.”

  39. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: A clean Russell disposition would be fantastic.

    I don’t know how they fill that 2RD hole for a one/two year stop gap though – I don’t see Stralman coming without an over pay on AAV or term – neither of which are options. Tyler Myers will be the main D UFA over pay. I’d be OK with acquiring Faulk or Spurgeon but don’t want to re-sign them so are only willing to pay one-year rental acquisition costs which won’t fly with their teams.

    Maybe Sekera can fill that 2RD hole – probably alot to ask but he may mesh well with a skater like Nurse. I imagine that Nurse will be better with a steadier guy like Sekera.

    I’m not sure they need to buy out Manning – with $1M retained, they should be able to move him.

    Ron Hainsey is the one year stop-gap option for 2nd pairing RD with Nurse. But it requires the disposition of one of Russell or Benning or preferably both.

  40. Bag of Pucks says:

    It would be interesting to look at the Oilers who have traditionally scored well against the Wings to see if they become the next survivors of regime change.

    Would be a bit of a tell on how much ‘saw him good’ factors in with Holland. Bias is a tempting mistress for the best of us.

  41. Bag of Pucks says:

    McSorley33:
    Hey, you can be our new GM but here is a 2 page list of guys you CAN’T fire……

    Nicholson:

    “We have successfully narrowed down our list of candidates to 2 people.”

    OBC.
    “We discuss everything as a group”
    AND
    “”Peter acted alone.”

    US
    “Did you let him hire people whose opinions he could trust?”

    OBC
    “Absolutely. If their last name was Greztky OR they didn’t replace anyone from our ‘winning’ culture.”

    US
    “So he was pretty much fucked from the start?”

    OBC
    “We discuss everything as a group.”

  42. DBO says:

    The real steal if Holland moves to Edmonton would be getting verbeek to come as heir apparent. Cause he would have a better chance under Holland then in Tampa or Detroit as their GMs are younger. That’s a win if we see a 3 to 5 year run as GM with Verbeek in after. That sell job could work for Verbeek and for the Oilers.

    And yep, clear some old dogs. Even only for fan perception. Howson probably the sacrificial lamb as he is not an old oiler player.

  43. jtblack says:

    Lowetide:
    For The Athletic: IF Ken Holland is coming to Edmonton, expect considerable change. This is not a formidable management group, and there is no record of success

    https://theathletic.com/961415/2019/05/04/ken-hollands-procurement-list-for-his-rumored-move-to-edmonton-will-include-front-office-personnel/

    I am not sure how Holland became the guy … Detroit is Cap strapped and at the bottom of the League.

    His last 6 years show 3 – 1st round playoff exits, followed by missing the playoffs 3 years in a row. And that missed playoff pattern will most likely continue for a few years …

    I know Holland had tremendous success in the late 90’s up to 2009.

    Just not sure his old school GM tactics are going to move the needle in Edmonton.

  44. JJ says:

    Verbeek to Detroit feels like an opportunity missed. Great experience with two good organizations ready for the next step.

  45. jtblack says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    “Don’t see him making the Lucic mistake. ”

    Frans Nielsen – 35 yrs old. 3 more years @ $5.25 Mil. 41, 35, 33 points in last 3 seasons.

    Justin Abdelkader – 32 yrs old. 4 more years @ $4.25 Mil. Coming off a 19 point season.

    Every GM will have some mistakes. I do think Holland is prone to overpaying.

    To your point. If he is hired, I see it very much like the PC hiring … Cup Pedigree. Questionable Cap Management. No mention of Analytics.

  46. Munny says:

    Verbeek was always going to re-join Yzerman, it appears. Doubt we had a chance.

  47. wood99 says:

    Would you do this trade,8th +Benning for Kadri and brown from Toronto.

  48. Lowetide says:

    jtblack: I am not sure how Holland became the guy … Detroit is Cap strapped and at the bottom of the League.

    His last 6 years show 3 – 1st round playoff exits, followed by missing the playoffs 3 years in a row.And that missed playoff pattern will most likely continue for a few years …

    I know Holland had tremendous success in the late 90’s up to 2009.

    Just not sure his old school GM tactics are going to move the needle in Edmonton.

    His more recent work comes during a period where the team was trying to hang on to the playoffs, to success, and perhaps for one more shot at a championship. He also paid too much for role players, both his own and others. All of these things are true. His rebuild has some nice youngsters and a few contracts that are a problem. His cap for next year is almost identical to Edmonton’s and that’s not good.

    I am going to do my best not to pre-judge Holland, Gretzky, Hunter, etc. My suspicion is the organization has decided to remain a family business ala 1975. I am trying very hard to keep an open mind. I think they might have been better off just hiring Keith Gretzky.

  49. wood99 says:

    The one thing that people forget is Holland knows how to win and surround elite players with great role players. I agree his recent track record is shaky but also think that is a product of being so good for so long. Eventually drafting later always will catch up to any team. I’m interested in who’s coming with him as in the front office and scouting departments.

  50. jtblack says:

    Lowetide: His more recent work comes during a period where the team was trying to hang on to the playoffs, to success, and perhaps for one more shot at a championship. He also paid too much for role players, both his own and others. All of these things are true. His rebuild has some nice youngsters and a few contracts that are a problem. His cap for next year is almost identical to Edmonton’s and that’s not good.

    I am going to do my best not to pre-judge Holland, Gretzky, Hunter, etc. My suspicion is the organization has decided to remain a family business ala 1975. I am trying very hard to keep an open mind. I think they might have been better off just hiring Keith Gretzky.

    +1.

  51. Jethro Tull says:

    If Ken wanted the job in the Hockey sense, he’d be GM now. Sounds more like he’s wrangling for a retirement contract.

    Holland is, at best, a sideways move.

    If we’re in for morw heartbreak, at least bring in new blood to learn and grow with us.

  52. Pescador says:

    McSorley33:
    Hey, you can be our new GM but here is a 2 page list of guys you CAN’T fire……

    Nicholson:

    “We have successfully narrowed down our list of candidates to 2 people.”

    And 1 of the 2 GM candidates was on the list of un-fireables

  53. Ryder says:

    Definitely count me as a fan originally very against Holland as a GM but when digging deeper there’s a lot to like:
    1. #1 for me is that he breeds young stars in GMs and coaches so he must be doing something right. He groomed the “best” GM in Stevie Y, a good one in Nill, and helped with Verbeek. Babcock and McLellan were viewed as two of the best coaches too at one point and both came from there. Whoever he hires/keeps underneath him should learn lots and be primed to take over for him when he retires.
    2. In his 30 years, haven’t heard one bad thing about him. All reports are he has no ego and knows what is best for the organization such as stepping aside for Stevie Y which was supposed to be his idea. He should breed a good culture of letting good people do their job.
    3. He is the only guarantee of ending the OBC influence as even if they survive, I can’t see them trying to influence a legend like Holland.
    4. Agree or disagree, the Red Wings #1 goal was to continue their playoff streak as long as possible with Zetterberg mentioning how vital it was to the players. So I do count Holland’s last 3 1st round exits as successes because people kept predicting the Wings would have their streak snapped but he eked out a couple more years.
    5. Some of his contracts are bad but I think if you’re around long enough every GM has bad contracts even good ones like Stevie Y, GMGM, and Chevy. At least none are a millstone and a couple are somewhat defensible like Abdelkader signing before the big emphasis on speed, Nielson was highly coveted and a decent skater and still doing okay, Dekeyser was good than fell off really early etc.
    6. He has some bad trades, but really has more good than bad
    7. Has built a great crop of kids to guide Detroit (Larkin, Anthanisou, Zadina, Mantha, Rasmussen, #6 pick, Veleno, Cholowski, Hronek, Bertuzzi etc.)
    8. If he ends up being meh, he’s older and the organization has easy optics to “promote” him upstairs and get a new GM earlier than if they go outside the organization and the new GM gets 4 years to prove himself

  54. Louis Levasseur says:

    It’s interesting to look back on previous drafts. I like to look at the draft board and see who came after the Oilers’ pick. For example in 2002, clearly the Oilers blew it by taking Jesse Niinimaki. I think it was a dumb pick because they probably could have got him after round 1. Although maybe they had some intel that somebody was going to grab him before their turn came around again in round 2.

    I don’t like doing the “hindsite is 20/20” thing, and if you look at who came after Jesse that year, I can’t say there was a huge miss. yes, soom useful players like Steen, but nothing franchise altering. How far are you allowed to go down the list with hindsite? I don’t think it’s fair to say that we could have had Gaudreau/Datsyuk/Zetterberg in the 1st round instead or our bust.

  55. digger50 says:

    Holland is a Red Wing through and through, that is where his heart is.

    Now he is going to piddle around with the Oilers as a retirement project.

    Nicholson is really just a scared exec over his head, he doesn’t know what to do. He doesn’t want to do wrong, he has good intentions, but he just has no idea how to identify a future leader. He is going to overpay for a resume, for past performance, same mistake a GM makes with players.

    If I look for a positive, Ken is well respected and has many, many relationships built. To get this team turned around quickly Ken needs to work those relationships in the form of astute trades.

    In my opinion, this team has so much high end talent they are close. There is no excuse, no excuse why they should not be in the playoffs next year.

  56. ruotsalainen says:

    I don’t comment much, but I read everyday. Allen, just wanted you to know your Harvest Moon post every year is wonderful and probably my favourite of your many brilliant ongoing threads. Just thought I’d stop by and say I appreciate what you do, and thanks.

  57. leadfarmer says:

    wood99:

    I wouldn’t do it with the expansion draft looming. Kadri would be a great fit though
    I would rather shop In Florida with whoever shakes loose there when they sign Panarin and Bob

  58. JimmyV1965 says:

    Lowetide: His more recent work comes during a period where the team was trying to hang on to the playoffs, to success, and perhaps for one more shot at a championship. He also paid too much for role players, both his own and others. All of these things are true. His rebuild has some nice youngsters and a few contracts that are a problem. His cap for next year is almost identical to Edmonton’s and that’s not good.

    I am going to do my best not to pre-judge Holland, Gretzky, Hunter, etc. My suspicion is the organization has decided to remain a family business ala 1975. I am trying very hard to keep an open mind. I think they might have been better off just hiring Keith Gretzky.

    +100. As Oiler fans, all we can do is hope they get it right and wait to see what happens. I am happy that they actually interviewed candidates for the first time in franchise history.

  59. Bling says:

    Lowetide: His more recent work comes during a period where the team was trying to hang on to the playoffs, to success, and perhaps for one more shot at a championship. He also paid too much for role players, both his own and others. All of these things are true. His rebuild has some nice youngsters and a few contracts that are a problem. His cap for next year is almost identical to Edmonton’s and that’s not good.

    I am going to do my best not to pre-judge Holland, Gretzky, Hunter, etc. My suspicion is the organization has decided to remain a family business ala 1975. I am trying very hard to keep an open mind. I think they might have been better off just hiring Keith Gretzky.

    That’s the best take here — the Oilers are okay with operating like a family business.

    This will be Burger Bob’s second underwhelming hire.

    Amazing how thoroughly and spectacularly mediocre and unimaginative he is.

    He’a has four months to search and has come up with a list of candidates anyone on this blog could have arrived at in one week.

    Clap clap.

  60. npanciroli says:

    The one thing I like about Holland is he’s been doing this for so long I don’t imagine he has any interest keeping around the dead weight of the OBC and pro scouting department if he takes the job.

  61. Ryan says:

    Willis has been on fire lately at the Athletic.

    It’s fun to read because his writing style is sort of an amalgamation of Tyler Dellow and Allan Mitchell. His writing mixes the logical flow of a Dellow article with the lowetidesque paragon of sober fairness in his assessment of people.

    Here’s a great example:

    “Holland’s legacy, both as an innovator and the architect of one of the most successful teams in recent history, is secure. His ability to manage in a salary cap environment is open to further scrutiny.”

    This sort of statement would not look out of place at all in a Lowetide blog article.

  62. godot10 says:

    wood99:
    Would you do this trade,8th +Benning for Kadri and brown from Toronto.

    That is a horrible deal for the OIlers. Kadri is turning 30 soon and only three years left on his deal. The #8OV will be a core player for a decade and is expansion protected.

    The new GM has to operate on the margin. Unless it is a mindblowing offer, one cannot improve by trading core assets. The #8OV is a core asset.

    Don’t offer good assets for people looking for cap relief. Offer flawed assets. There are enough teams in cap hell that good players should be available at reasonable prices.

  63. godot10 says:

    Pescador: And 1 of the 2 GM candidates was on the list of un-fireables

    Keith Gretzky is here till after the draft regardless. He has been running the scouting operation. No competent new GM is going to release him before the draft is complete.

  64. tileguy says:

    Is it too early to melt down the Ken Hitchcock statue and use the bronze for a Ken Holland idol.

  65. Pescador says:

    meanashell11:
    What if Holland is coming in as POHO and they are negotiating with Hunter as GM and want to announce both at the same time?

    I think I have time for this, 2 heads are better than 1 I suppose.
    Makes for a more flavorful soup.
    Lots of talk about in the last few days about who might become a good GM because of who they mentored under.
    For me this is why I’m not in favor of promoting the guy that has been Chiarelli’s right hand man for the past 6? years or more. No thanks
    Now, if Kieth were to make his secret plan public information to let us debate & dissect it.
    That could either change my mind or confirm my reservations.
    Give us the Caramilk secret, we won’t tell anybody

  66. Lowetide says:

    ruotsalainen:
    I don’t comment much, but I read everyday. Allen, just wanted you to know your Harvest Moon post every year is wonderful and probably my favourite of your many brilliant ongoing threads. Just thought I’d stop by and say I appreciate what you do, and thanks.

    Thanks so much, it’s my favorite post to write. Probably because it only comes once a year and I can’t hurry it along. 🙂

  67. gimme shelter says:

    Interesting that tobias reider came back to Edmonton again. Once was not enough. Same with Sam Gagner.
    And speaking of retreads our new GM candidate was not fired by his team like Peter but kicked upstairs.
    Does that make him any better than Mr.Chiarelli. I wonder. I am not hopeful for the outcome. Change is hard to do and I do not believe that Ken kept up to modern times. I guess we will see if he is the annointed one. BOB could still surprise us and give the job to Kif.

  68. Pescador says:

    tileguy:
    Is it too early to melt down the Ken Hitchcock statue and use the bronze for a Ken Holland idol?

    This is just,
    So
    good

  69. Pescador says:

    Bling: That’s the best take here — the Oilers are okay with operating like a family business.

    This will be Burger Bob’s second underwhelming hire.

    Amazing how thoroughly and spectacularly mediocre and unimaginative he is.

    He’a has four months to search and has come up with a list of candidates anyone on this blog could have arrived at in one week.

    Clap clap.

    I think there was a more inspiring list posted here within an hour of the Chiarelli firing tweet

  70. Bryan says:

    I don’t think comparing Holland to Chiarelli is a solid analysis. Holland was ahead of the curve moving to a more skilled style of play and realizing that the spots held for fourth line goons were a waste. Detroit had some tough guys but they could play the game. He also toiled for a long time himself in the AHL so he has first hand knowledge on what flip flopping a youngster between the show and the minors will do to their development. He certainly got lucky drafting the likes of Datsyuk and Zetterberg in later rounds but he also had the vision to assign scouts to places that were far afield. Lou certainly got the Islanders back on the right path in a hurry so perhaps there is still hope for grey haired candidates.

  71. Reja says:

    godot10: Keith Gretzky is here till after the draft regardless. He has been running the scouting operation.No competent new GM is going to release him before the draft is complete.

    I believe Ken is being brought in to mentor Keith and right the ship and he will be paid handsomely. After being pissed we didn’t make the show Flames and Leafs took a lot of the sting away really looking forward to next year as we’re not that far off.

  72. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Even with Holland, I see the current issue being organizational. They do not have the competency of getting players to achieve anywhere near their ceiling. Draft pedigree, thus, means very little in this organization. In order to attain value, they’ve got to pay full value on just about every asset they acquire. There’s no excellence around development in this organization. They simply expect players to evolve to expectation without any nurturing.

    There’s overhaul needed above and below the levels of GM & coach.

  73. Nit64 says:

    tileguy:
    Is it too early to melt down the Ken Hitchcock statue and use the bronze for a Ken Holland idol.

    ~ So I don’t have to remove my I Heart K.H. tatoo? ~

  74. Nit64 says:

    Don’t know how many folks have read The Road to Hockeytown. (Yeah, but have you actually read it, Daryl?) But here’s the Detroit Alternate governor plugging shipping Holland to Edmonton. Tampering!!!

    https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/i-think-hes-the-best-holland-would-be-perfect-choice-for-oilers

  75. Pescador says:

    Admiral Ackbar:
    Even with Holland, I see the current issue being organizational. They do not have the competency of getting players to achieve anywhere near their ceiling. Draft pedigree, thus, means very little in this organization. In order to attain value, they’ve got to pay full value on just about every asset they acquire. There’s no excellence around development in this organization. They simply expect players to evolve to expectation without any nurturing.

    There’s overhaul needed above and below the levels of GM & coach.

    I disagree with this, the organization has stated publicly that they have made an error in the way they have developed prospects.
    They have vowed to make changes.
    There has been a complete about face in the way that prospects are utilized in the AHL.
    The org is already starting to reap some of the benefits of this.
    Now it’s not a complete overhaul as of yet, more of a work in progress. But at least it’s a step in the right direction.
    I’ve been as vocal a critic as anybody but we should acknowledge progress when the evidence is real

  76. Glovjuice says:

    sumaclab:
    If I am targeting a player its Huberdeau. Decent cap hit. Give them JP and a 3rd round pick. They need cap space if they want to sign Bob and Panarin.

    Jp and third. LOL. seriously.

  77. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – So is Holland a lock?It’s a process I can’t recall. It seems from an outsider that they targeted McCrimmon but because they couldn’t interview him they spent 6 weeks gathering information and calling Hunter back twice and getting Stauffer to say that Keith was on a plane when Chia did bad stuff!

    – Then in a nanosecond Vegas promotes McCrimmon. So they are all in Holland who hasn’t signed so it’s leaked while we wait.

    – I don’t recall A GM being offered job and having to wait publicly for him to accept.

    – Strange days.

    texmex:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    It’s a really odd situation. That’s one of the down falls of social media, too much info is leaked / made up.

    If I’m mark hunter, if offered the job, I politely decline knowing I was third choice. I’d stay with my successful junior team, run Team Canada with my brother at the WJHC. A team will come calling soon enough, a team who have me 1st on their list. This whole process just reaffirms what a gong show OEG is

    At the end of the day, the organization has been tight-lipped with respect to candidates and the details of the process (as they should) All the “information” has been gleaned from the media and insiders, however, it has been all over the place with multiple contradictions every single day and reports from reputable “insiders” being contradicted by other reputable “insiders”.

    We know essentially nothing with respect to the process with McCrimmon – the information is on the spectrum of “never spoke”, “unofficially chatted”, “multiple interviews and essentially offered the job”.

    We know nothing.

    It does seem like there are legs to the current Holland thing given all the reports are saying the same thing now.

  78. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: At the end of the day, the organization has been tight-lipped with respect to candidates and the details of the process (as they should) All the “information” has been gleaned from the media and insiders, however, it has been all over the place with multiple contradictions every single day and reports from reputable “insiders” being contradicted by other reputable “insiders”.

    Dead on.

  79. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dustylegnd: Who is our #1 right D again??? isn’t he the 2 RD on a good team…just clarifying reality..

    Cale Makar steps in the the NHL playoffs scores 5 points in 7 games and is Colrados best puck moving D man he also shoots right

    Colrado also has the 1 best line in hockey and the second most talented player in hockey as well as tthe #4 overall this pick this year…thank god hey are not in the Pacific

    On the plus side, in January it looked very dark for Colorado…so who knows

    Yes, it Larsson really is a 2RD, however, we are where we are and acquiring a true 1RD isn’t a realistic option at this point.

    What Makar is doing is exceptional but he’s always been on another tier of prospect than Bouchard – hence his top 5 draft position.

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    sumaclab:
    If I am targeting a player its Huberdeau. Decent cap hit. Give them JP and a 3rd round pick. They need cap space if they want to sign Bob and Panarin.

    JP and a pick for a 25 year old 92 point player who doesn’t just have a decent contract but has one of the best value non-ELC contracts in the league.

    This would require our 1st rounder plus Bouchard plus more probably.

  81. OmJo says:

    jtblack: I am not sure how Holland became the guy … Detroit is Cap strapped and at the bottom of the League.

    Um Ken Holland will fit right into the culture in that case. Kinda answered your own question.

  82. Alpine says:

    On the bright side, Holland doesn’t generally lose trades. He’s had a couple dodgy deadline deals like a 1st for Kyle Quincey, Jarnkrok for Legwand but he doesn’t often make many player for player deals.

    On the down side, the Oilers could use some player for player deals but Holland seems to prefer using free agents to fill holes. I would expect him to be active on that front if he’s GM. We might see a 5 or 6 year deal for Dzingel or a 4 year deal for Connolly added to our salary structure.

    On the whole, the one good thing I see with Holland is that he doesn’t like to bleed talent. They moved Tatar and Nyquist only once they had able replacements from within, and he got good value for both. I don’t believe we’d have to worry about non-sensical trades with him. The extensions and FA signings may be an issue though.

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie63:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Russell is the best option to give away.After July 1 he has to provide a list of suitable teams he can be traded to. Oilers will accept the best draft pick we can get from that list.

    Next year’s defensive units will be

    Klefbom-Larson
    Sekera-Nurse
    Jones-Benning
    Persson

    First call ups
    Lagesson
    Bear
    Bouchard

    I would be just fine with that if the $4M cap savings on Russell is spent wisely on a young and cost controlled asset (as oppossed to a 2RD stop gap).

    There is much risk with all three pairs but there will be risk going in to game 1, the question is where?

  84. Nit64 says:

    OriginalPouzar: It does seem like there are legs to the current Holland thing given all the reports are saying the same thing now.

    Also we have something beyond un-sourced media reports. Postmedia had Wings alt. gov. Devellano on Friday plugging how Holland would handle a new job .

    https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/i-think-hes-the-best-holland-would-be-perfect-choice-for-oilers

    Giant Tell. If the guy is going to be content kicked upstairs, why is his mentor pumping his tires for a move?

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    McNuge93: Faulk would be a good target for one year. Maybe Benning for Faulk. But Carolina with their current success may not want to change up their D. I wouldn’t want to commit to amyone for more than a year to leave room for our prospects to move up (hopefully).

    Just like the Huburdeau trade proposal I responded to, why would Carolina make that trade? I’m not a huge Faulk fan as he has many deficiencies but why would they trade one d-man straight up for a worse d-man?

  86. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That Klefbom picks shines – in particular when seeing some full on busts drafted around him.

    Musil was a solid pick at the time – player just never developed and I’m not sure why.

    Rieder turned out to be a great pick at that spot – unfortunately, not for the Oilers.

    Edmonton had McNeil ahead of Klefbom on their list but CHI took him one pick ahead of them.

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: Would you trade RNH for JP and a third?

    Not to mention that Huburdeau is better than Nuge and signed for under $6M for 5 years.

  88. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Ron Hainsey is the one year stop-gap option for 2nd pairing RD with Nurse.But it requires the disposition of one of Russell or Benning or preferably both.

    I’ve never really looked at Hainsy – isn’t he old and a bottom pairing guy?

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    DBO:
    The real steal if Holland moves to Edmonton would be getting verbeek to come as heir apparent. Cause he would have a better chance under Holland then in Tampa or Detroit as their GMs are younger. That’s a win if we see a 3 to 5 year run as GM with Verbeek in after. That sell job could work for Verbeek and for the Oilers.

    And yep, clear some old dogs. Even only for fan perception. Howson probably the sacrificial lamb as he is not an old oiler player.

    Its already been reported that he’s joining Yzerman in Detroit.

  90. Munny says:

    Alpine: On the down side, the Oilers could use some player for player deals but Holland seems to prefer using free agents to fill holes.

    I agree with this take but he might find that job a little more difficult in 2019 Edmonton compared to the Double-noughts Detroit.

  91. Alpine says:

    OriginalPouzar: JP and a pick for a 25 year old 92 point player who doesn’t just have a decent contract but has one of the best value non-ELC contracts in the league.

    This would require our 1st rounder plus Bouchard plus more probably.

    Looking at when some big stars get traded, they don’t usually cost as much as people think. I could see JP, Bouchard, and conditional, future 1st rounder based on winning a playoff round or two.

    Superstars never usually get more than one blue chip asset. JP doesn’t have much value but I’d be surprised if the Oilers move Bouchard and the 8th pick for one player. Much as that’s what Huberdeau should cost.

    It is hard to trade for a guy coming off a career year. I’d advise we circle back on Huberdeau once he comes down from that high. You make a trade like that when a player like him is the final piece, and when your team is in the playoffs.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    wood99:
    Would you do this trade,8th +Benning for Kadri and brown from Toronto.

    No, that’s essentially Kadri for the 8th (as Brown and Benning have similar value) and, as much as I like Kadri and he checks some nice boxes, given his age, I can’t give up that pick – its cost controlled, expansion draft exempt, higher potential, not about to go on decline, etc.

  93. Bling says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    At the end of the day, the organization has been tight-lipped with respect to candidates and the details of the process (as they should) All the “information” has been gleaned from the media and insiders, however, it has been all over the place with multiple contradictions every single day and reports from reputable “insiders” being contradicted by other reputable “insiders”.

    We know essentially nothing with respect to the process with McCrimmon – the information is on the spectrum of “never spoke”, “unofficially chatted”, “multiple interviews and essentially offered the job”.

    We know nothing.

    It does seem like there are legs to the current Holland thing given all the reports are saying the same thing now.

    I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

  94. pts2pndr says:

    Woogie63:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    Strange days.

    I don’t live in Edmonton anymore, but travel regularly to Edmonton to conduct business and still have season tickets to the Oilers.

    The Edmonton hockey scene is a more than a little strange.The new and old media has helped make this little northern market past passionate.The location and market has always been an issue for players, but now we can clearly see the hockey operations jobs are an issue for managers.Why put up with all the passion, why have your family live through the passion.

    I am not hating on Edmonton, in 2019 it’s just not a top option for hockey people.

    It is a great place if you are competent! You bring a championship back you would become the new super hero. I would agree the fans are passionate but they fill the seats through good times and bad.

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    wood99:
    The one thing that people forget is Holland knows how to win and surround elite players with great role players. I agree his recent track record is shakybut also think that is a product of being so good for so long. Eventually drafting later always will catch up to any team. I’m interested in who’s coming with him asin the front office and scouting departments.

    They’ve got their own OBC:

    Draper – AGM

    Jiri Fischer – Director of Player Evaluation

    Bryan Campbell – Director of Statistical Analysis and Hockey Administration

    Shawn Horcoff – Director of Player Development

    Dan Cleary – Player Development Assistant

  96. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    Love it.

  97. smellyglove says:

    Sad to say that top hockey people, free agents or executives, will not come to Edmonton.

    There was a brief respite when McDavid lottery had everyone singing, “Just wait, every free agent will take a DISCOUNT to play on this squad.” Clearly not the case, especially not after the four years Chiarelli/Katz/OBC mess.

    Look, there’s already an Edmonton tax in place for the fact the city is not a desirable destination (for NHL players and execs). Add to that the cluster fuck of ownership, OBC, Nicholson. And the fact that when “world-class” GM Chiarelli took over the stars were aligned (literally, Hall, McD, Drai, etc.) and it was squandered… not a good scene for any up and coming executive to land.

    It’s either gonna be:
    1. Recycled dinosaur bones GM (a la Holland)
    2. Risky bet that other squads wouldn’t touch (Eakins-like, some eccentric from another league)
    3. Some Yes-man that the OBC can push around (Tambo)

    It’s not gonna be an Yzerman, McCrimmon. It’s not gonna be some AGM with a bright future.

    That’s the MO. The best we can hope for is that, somehow under the salary cap, the next GM bumbles or lucks his way into putting an *average* NHL squad behind McD/Drai, such that their performance puts the team over the top (into the playoffs).

    Not a perma-Stanley Cup contender, never. McDavid’s human, he’s not going to hit 160 points. Salary cap mess, which will alleviate, but the Oilers will still carry dead weight for the bulk of McDavid’s contract. Edmonton tax: cold, northern, non-cosmopolitan city means free agent overpays. Edmonton tax 2: lots of travel, brings fatigue. OBC-factor: best case, bumbling interference in decision-making and worst case: legit executives avoid E-town like the plague and you have Katz calling shots like picking Yak.

  98. Ryan says:

    Dustylegnd: Who is our #1 right D again??? isn’t he the 2 RD on a good team…just clarifying reality..

    Cale Makar steps in the the NHL playoffs scores 5 points in 7 games and is Colrados best puck moving D man he also shoots right

    How about Michael Benning?

  99. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    Well said. I feel the same way but the only thing that I can get out is
    “Fuck!”

  100. season not played says:

    Is Woodguy still around these days? I would appreciate it if he could explain to me again why Alex Petrovic is a top 4 D in the NHL because I don’t know anything about the league or the players in it.

    Thanks in advance.

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    Alpine: Looking at when some big stars get traded, they don’t usually cost as much as people think. I could see JP, Bouchard, and conditional, future 1st rounder based on winning a playoff round or two.

    Superstars never usually get more than one blue chip asset. JP doesn’t have much value but I’d be surprised if the Oilers move Bouchard and the 8th pick for one player. Much as that’s what Huberdeau should cost.

    It is hard to trade for a guy coming off a career year. I’d advise we circle back on Huberdeau once he comes down from that high. You make a trade like that when a player like him is the final piece, and when your team is in the playoffs.

    Oh, I’m not saying I would make that trade, haven’t really thought about it, was more just responding to the unreasonableness of the original trade proposition, in my opinion.

  102. OriginalPouzar says:

    season not played:
    Is Woodguy still around these days? I would appreciate it if he could explain to me again why Alex Petrovic is a top 4 D in the NHL because I don’t know anything about the league or the players in it.

    Thanks in advance.

    So you logged on today solely to call out another guy over an conversation/argument months in the past? That’s your value add today?

  103. Bulging Twine says:

    “each season offers a fresh pile of foolscap to put on top of the pile”

    Why is it called “fools cap”?

  104. Bulging Twine says:

    “he gave me the impression that this is the ultimate risk/reward pick. We could be looking at a quality starter or a dud, with dud rising.”

    I hear these phrases like “risk/reward” or “boom/bust” a fair amount in drafts. I hear it a lot in the NFL. Even in the first round.

    It seems to me these type of players rarely make it.

  105. Nit64 says:

    Bulging Twine:
    “each season offers a fresh pile of foolscap to put on top of the pile”

    Why is it called “fools cap”?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foolscap_folio

    UPDATE:

    https://nga.gov.au/conservation/watermarks/details/foolscap.cfm

  106. JOFA says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    Excellent post!

  107. Nit64 says:

    Ferraro: “There has been so much toxicity around the Oilers for a decade that whoever they hire is not going to be the right guy: He won’t have enough experience, he’ll have too much experience; he’ll be too tall or he’ll be too short.”

    We tore down the City of Champions long ago. Hat tip to this SNFU player, maybe we could put up some Toxi-City signs.

    @buckbacon
    Searched “#Holland #Oilers” on here. After about 3 minutes of scrolling and reading, I found multiple barf-worthy takes. Can’t wait until this crap is over with. #Yeg is toxi-city right now. Only thing that will change public perception is winning. Whoever GM is, has a BIG job.

  108. Pescador says:

    Bulging Twine:
    “he gave me the impression that this is the ultimate risk/reward pick. We could be looking at a quality starter or a dud, with dud rising.”

    I hear these phrases like“risk/reward” or “boom/bust” a fair amount in drafts.I hear it a lot in the NFL.Even in the first round.

    It seems to me these type of players rarely make it.

    Agreed,
    Need to draft more reward/reward
    boom/boom type players

  109. jtblack says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Well said. I feel the same way but the only thing that I can get out is
    “Fuck!”

    +1. & LT let is go !! Love it

  110. Ari says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    Please copy, paste, print, and mail Oilers HQ.

  111. Lowetide says:

    Game Day Thread is up.

  112. Nit64 says:

    Ari: Please copy, paste, print, and mail Oilers HQ.

    ~ When you let go of a big load like that, it’s way easier to flush. ~

  113. Ryan says:

    Lowetide:
    Game Day Thread is up.

    There’s no way no get to it until someone posts a comment.

  114. Bulging Twine says:

    This Nicholson-Holland process seems to have some similarities to the Chiarelli process which Nicholson said was a mistake in hindsight.

    Holland/Chiarelli was his guy from the start.
    Holland/Chiarelli had previous success followed by lacklustre performance
    Holland/Chiarelli are not what one would consider innovative hires to say the least
    Holland/Chiarelli represent to Nicholson safety
    Holland/Chiarelli didn’t get interviewed (to my knowledge)

    Nicholson is doing the same thing he did when he hired his first GM

  115. Genjutsu says:

    Lowetide: Thanks so much, it’s my favorite post to write. Probably because it only comes once a year and I can’t hurry it along. 🙂

    Seconded. I refer to the draft as “hockey Christmas” and you and this place you’ve built is a big part of it.

    Thanks for being you.

  116. Glovjuice says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    A woman for an NHL GM job. Are you serious?

  117. Bulging Twine says:

    Nicholson is showing similar patterns to what he did before
    Chiarelli did what he did in Boston; Heavy, cap hell, poor communication, lack of openness
    We should expect Holland to show similar patterns to what he did in Detroit

  118. Bling says:

    Glovjuice,

    Are you?

  119. Professor Q says:

    Glovjuice: A woman for an NHL GM job. Are you serious?

    That’s what Haley Wickenheiser is training to become in a few years, but has stated she doesn’t want to be handed the job because she wants to prove that she and other women can earn it and work their ways up. She wants to actually learn the social circle and the methodology first.

  120. Glovjuice says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    Other than the woman minority part this post is perfect!

  121. Professor Q says:

    Glovjuice: Other than the woman minority part this post is perfect!

    Why?

  122. Glovjuice says:

    Bling:
    Glovjuice,

    Are you?

    Yes, the Oilers, nor any other NHL team, are hiring a woman GM. Name a reasonably qualified one. Or two or three.

  123. Professor Q says:

    Glovjuice: Yes, the Oilers, nor any other NHL team, are hiring a woman GM. Name a reasonably qualified one. Or two or three.

    There are plenty already in NHL positions, but there are also women in analytics, coaching, and management positions (not to mention CEO, President, and ownership positions) in MLB, NFL, NBA, and even presumably MLS and other sports leagues.

    That’s just in the U.S. and Canada-based sports. Worldwide would have more.

  124. Scungilli Slushy says:

    jtblack:
    Draft Eligible D Man Bowen Byram had 4 Assists last night in the 1st game of the WHL Final.

    He leads the WHL in playoff scoring with 22 points.

    I think he and Kakko are going to be the biggies this draft in 5 years. Hughes will be a great forward but won’t be that type of impact player.

  125. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That Klefbom picks shines – in particular when seeing some full on busts drafted around him.

    Musil was a solid pick at the time – player just never developed and I’m not sure why.

    Rieder turned out to be a great pick at that spot – unfortunately, not for the Oilers.

    No offence can’t skate at an nhl level. I remember that it was expected that he was a long shot, but his dad was in the org so….

  126. Glovjuice says:

    smellyglove:
    Sad to say that top hockey people, free agents or executives, will not come to Edmonton.

    There was a brief respite when McDavid lottery had everyone singing, “Just wait, every free agent will take a DISCOUNT to play on this squad.” Clearly not the case, especially not after the four years Chiarelli/Katz/OBC mess.

    Look, there’s already an Edmonton tax in place for the fact the city is not a desirable destination (for NHL players and execs). Add to that the cluster fuck of ownership, OBC, Nicholson. And the fact that when “world-class” GM Chiarelli took over the stars were aligned (literally, Hall, McD, Drai, etc.) and it was squandered… not a good scene for any up and coming executive to land.

    It’s either gonna be:
    1. Recycled dinosaur bones GM (a la Holland)
    2. Risky bet that other squads wouldn’t touch (Eakins-like, some eccentric from another league)
    3. Some Yes-man that the OBC can push around (Tambo)

    It’s not gonna be an Yzerman, McCrimmon. It’s not gonna be some AGM with a bright future.

    That’s the MO. The best we can hope for is that, somehow under the salary cap, the next GM bumbles or lucks his way into putting an *average* NHL squad behind McD/Drai, such that their performance puts the team over the top (into the playoffs).

    Not a perma-Stanley Cup contender, never. McDavid’s human, he’s not going to hit 160 points. Salary cap mess, which will alleviate, but the Oilers will still carry dead weight for the bulk of McDavid’s contract. Edmonton tax: cold, northern, non-cosmopolitan city means free agent overpays. Edmonton tax 2: lots of travel, brings fatigue. OBC-factor: best case, bumbling interference in decision-making and worst case: legit executives avoid E-town like the plague and you have Katz calling shots like picking Yak.

    Agreed. Every. Single. Point.

  127. Bulging Twine says:

    Nit64,

    Ah, thx

  128. Bulging Twine says:

    Pescador: Agreed,
    Need to draft more reward/reward
    boom/boom type players

    haha right! Great philosophy! It’s not that hard

  129. Glovjuice says:

    Professor Q: Why?

    Well, woman are not minorities for one. Second, there are no women qualified for the position. Suggesting there are is hideously patronizing.

  130. Side says:

    Glovjuice: Yes, the Oilers, nor any other NHL team, are hiring a woman GM. Name a reasonably qualified one. Or two or three.

    I take it you’re not a believer of “women supporting women”.

  131. stephen sheps says:

    Glovjuice: Well, woman are not minorities for one. Second, there are no women qualified for the position. Suggesting there are is hideously patronizing.

    To be honest, it feels like many folks that become GMs in hockey get there by virtue of having played the game at some point in their lives, not because they have business or formal management training. If having played the game is the only real qualification, there are plenty of women hockey players.

    To use an old “steve smith”ism (who’s posts I really miss, btw), I’m not sure qualified means what you think it means.

  132. Side says:

    Glovjuice: Well, woman are not minorities for one. Second, there are no women qualified for the position. Suggesting there are is hideously patronizing.

    http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/24462272/nhl-hayley-wickenheiser-search-nhl-first-female-general-manager-weekly-reader

    Seems like there are some potential candidates listed here. Some seem comparable to earlier names that were floated around in the GM discussion.

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    Scungilli Slushy: No offence can’t skate at an nhl level. I remember that it was expected that he was a long shot, but his dad was in the org so….

    I would go back and read scouting reports on him from the time – it was not a reach pick and he was thought to be a top D-man in the draft.

  134. OriginalPouzar says:

    That’s a pretty inclusive list of search criteria – I’m not sure the right person is a former analytics blogger, female, working in the statistical science industry in Europe and looking forward to another appearance at the Sloan conference but, if we can find her, she should be interviewed.

  135. Bling says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    That’s a pretty inclusive list of search criteria – I’m not sure the right person is a former analytics blogger, female, working in the statistical science industry in Europe and looking forward to another appearance at the Sloan conference but, if we can find her, she should be interviewed.

    Hahaha.

    I didn’t mean that the person hired had to be all those things, but that you should consider all of those different possible sources and points of view.

    Question is, did Bob even consider half of them? A quarter? I don’t think so.

  136. Munny says:

    stephen sheps,

    They — male players — also do work their way up the organizational ladder. Some top out as scouts. I expect that is part of what GJ meant by “qualified”. I couldn’t support hiring Wickenheiser, for example, at this point in her career.

  137. season not played says:

    OriginalPouzar: So you logged on today solely to call out another guy over an conversation/argument months in the past?That’s your value add today?

    Actually it might even be a year ago. You’re a lawyer, door opened, and you’re right fairly arbitrary, no value added and the explanation probably doesn’t justify it.

    I was watching a WW2 documentary in which the filmmaker was justifying Hitlers actions with some half truths, made up stuff and omitting some important details and as I was doing this I was wormholing myself on hockey dB in the show trade section of each player where you just keep checking the player who pops up as the guy traded for and then bouncing back and forth to the draft lists. You see I’ve been a hockey stats guy since the early 80s with the yearly stat books and I had this hobby hockey game my mom got me when I was about twelve where each player had a card and you used multiple dice and there were 5 slots on the board where you put in order left to right Ld, LW, C RW Rd and you rolled a handful of dice that used the columns of the player cards to move the puck through the three zones, clock ticked down, I think it was 10 seconds per zone, anyway most realistic hockey game you could get in the mid 80s. I would use the schedule from one of my stay books and play every game on that schedule for every team. Write down all the game summaries and after each game change the teams stats. Each team had a page, so pencil and eraser, every game so what is that on an16 team league 3200 games? And there were replacement player cards when the next real season started, did that for I think three seasons. There was a CFL game like that too but I didn’t find football stats as interesting as NHL numbers. Anyway, needless to say that isn’t the kind of interest that goes away.

    So as I’m watching this ridiculous WW2 thing that is making me more and more cranky, Alex Petrovic showed up in my wormhole and as I was examining him I was just thinking, man why would WG think this player is a top 4 d, in the first place, but also enough to respond to my comment about him not being one in a comment that I don’t believe involved WG in the first place. I thought it’s because he may be a long time fan but he is relatively new to following nhl statistics and his knowledge is likely almost exclusively based on his hobby of crunching numbers and basing his evaluations of players strictly on that. The reason I know he is relatively new and not nearly as knowledgeable as he would like everyone to think is because one day he made a comment comparing Taylor hall statistically to Marcel Dionne is that they were similar players in their point production. So, to not know off the top of his head that there really isn’t a comparison tells me his actual statistical hockey knowledge is likely limited to the 2006 cup run. Hey no fowl in that, but when he jumped on to insult me after my Petrovic comment in which he was obviously wrong; well let’s just say my anger from the show, Petrovic popping up on my laptop and an axe to grind over a needless but typical WG insult to attempt to display his superior hockey knowledge, let’s just call it a perfect storm.

    Is that going to work for you OP or would you like to display your obvious lack of any historical knowledge when it comes to the NHL.

    Just kidding buddy, you keep cranking out those pre written posts.

  138. Munny says:

    Bling,

    To me, your list looks more like the kind of people a good GM should surround himself with. And should have some familiarity with. Holland might be the best choice from this pov.

    I don’t know him personally, so I have no idea how open-minded, innovative, committed to learning, data and process-oriented, etc etc he is. We can try and infer from the past but we aren’t going to get a very clear picture.

    He might be that guy he might not. My worry is whether the guy conducting the search has the ability to get this right. They should’ve started the hiring at CEO.

  139. Nit64 says:

    Munny: They should’ve started the hiring at CEO.

    Agreed.

  140. Side says:

    season not played,

    This is the worst supervillain origin story ever.

  141. Georgexs says:

    Bling: I completely disagree.

    Insiders may have disagreed on some particulars — Keith being in or out — but almost everyone has agreed that he is a top 3 candidate and has been all along. Same goes for the likes of Holland and Burke.

    What upsets me about the process is that you are left with a collection of guys who worked for Hockey Canada plus Keith Gretzky.

    Well, thanks for nothing, Bob.

    If this was an extensive search, in addition to the good old boys from around the league, we would have seen candidates from:

    A) Europe
    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)
    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)
    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)
    E) Minority candidates, including women.
    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    That, to me, is a balanced hiring approach. Now, you might argue, well hold on Bling, Mike Gillis did get a phone call. Cito Gaston, former manager of the Jays, would complain about this all the time — that he would get a token phone call, but that was it. Those don’t count. The non Hockey Canada people (Outsiders) were way down the list from the very beginning; that isn’t an accident, folks, that’s by design.

    I’m furious because what Bob did is take 4 months to realize that McCrimmon wouldn’t be available. So now he’s completely stuck, because the draft is coming and you haven’t done your job and you’re basically begging Holland to come, who is only a good candidate to Bob because Bob hasn’t watched any hockey for 5 years.

    I don’t have a lot of patience for laziness. Mistakes happen, but Bob has now screwed up a (second) hiring process that 90% of successful business people would have taken much more seriously.

    Then again, what does Bob have to worry about? What’s his skin in the game? I’ll tell you: keeping his friends happy and making sure he can transition to the IIHF in one year. Ray Ferraro is bang-on when he suggests that this hiring process has gone sideways. That’s because the guy running it has no clue how to run a business that doesn’t run autonomously.

    Burger Bob is what happens when you put a lazy, know-nothing, mediocre bureaucrat in a real-world business position. He doesn’t know anything, he doesn’t know that he doesn’t know anything, he isn’t curious about learning, and he is easily influenced by a cabal of old thinkers. If he had a shred of pride, he would resign.

    Screw Bettman for pedalling this idiot onto this franchise, Katz, and us.

    A) Europe

    The only GM who has come over from Europe is Jarmo Kekalainen. He had a prior working relationship with Davidson. On the surface an out of the box hire, but also a case of people hire people they know.

    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)

    I don’t believe any of the current GM’s were plucked from Junior.

    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)

    Lots of examples of this. Benning, Botterill, Nill (?), Treliving, Fenton, Bergevin, Cheveldayoff

    Quite a few of these guys were AGM’s for Cup winning teams.

    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)

    I don’t believe any of the current GMs have non-hockey backgrounds. The majority have played in the NHL.

    E) Minority candidates, including women.

    Hmmm…

    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    Hmmm…

    If Nicholson goes with Holland, he’ll do what 10 other teams have done: hire a guy with prior GM experience.

    If he hires Gretzky, he’ll do what 12 other teams have done: promote one of their AGM’s.

    If he had hired McCrimmon, he would’ve done what 7 other teams have done: hired an AGM from another club. A bit unusual in choosing an AGM of a non-Cup winning team. But he was saved from that with VGK promoting from within.

    If he hires Hunter, he’ll do what no other club has done: go with a guy who’s currently working in Junior.

    You’re faulting Nicholson for not considering groups that other NHL teams (successful and unsuccessful) haven’t considered either. If he actually went ahead and made a hire from one of these groups, if he made an unconventional pick for GM in this time in this town, would that make you less furious? Or more?

  142. Georgexs says:

    Side:
    season not played,

    This is the worst supervillain origin story ever.

    Ha!

    Top shelf.

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    Friedman reporting Holland will get a 5 year contract offer with the Oil, for $5M per.

  144. Bling says:

    Glovjuice: Well, woman are not minorities for one. Second, there are no women qualified for the position. Suggesting there are is hideously patronizing.

    I put women in there because they are under-represented in sports management circles (for now), and in that sense they most definitely are a minority.

    I included that as a category, not to be PC, but to emphasize that in the executive ranks — and not just in hockey — groups of people tend to be overlooked and/or not considered at all, which is exactly what happened during the Oilers GM “search.”

    Here’s a quote from Kyle Dubas after they hired Hayley Wickenheiser to be assistant director of player development:

    “I just think the more diverse you can make your organization (the better) – and that’s just not a male and female thing,” Dubas told reporters. “We’ve got a fairly diverse group of people on our sports science side and other areas.

    “Research shows the more diverse your organization, the better your decision-making and the better your operation in general. If you’re only hiring white males – and I’m saying that as a white male – you’re probably leaving a lot of good people, in terms of what where your organization can go and how it can think and how it can evolve and develop.

    “I don’t think we’ve gone out and said, ‘we want to hire females only, males only,’ anything like that. We’re looking for the best candidates. We’re not pushing anybody aside – and I think sports in general are moving well in that direction. It’s been great to see. Basketball’s probably been by far the best with that. Baseball as well.

    “I just think it’s going to make sports and how they operate that much better as we all progress and move along.”

    Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolschram/2018/08/28/toronto-maple-leafs-kick-open-the-door-by-hiring-womens-hockey-great-hayley-wickenheiser/#8923a6722e76

    —-

    This is what I’m trying to say. Get good people. But getting good people means looking past where you traditionally look. It means casting a wide net.

    Kyle Dubas himself was a non-traditional hire. The Oilers didn’t even interview anyone like him. What does that say about the process?

    To answer your other question, I don’t know if there’s a qualified female out there. But I’m not being paid to look, and Bob is. Do you think he even bothered to look? And if he didn’t bother looking, could that in and of itself be symptomatic of a search that probably wasn’t all that thorough or complete in the first place?

    A lot of rational people would have made a list of possible sources. Bob had one source, which is people I know from Hockey Canada.

    After the disaster that was Chiarelli, that just isn’t good enough.

  145. Bling says:

    Georgexs: A) Europe

    The only GM who has come over from Europe is Jarmo Kekalainen. He had a prior working relationship with Davidson. On the surface an out of the box hire, but also a case of people hire people they know.

    B) Junior hockey (Mark Hunter isn’t the only smart guy, I promise)

    I don’t believe any of the current GM’s were plucked from Junior.

    C) Assistant GMs from successful franchises (Donskov, Gilman)

    Lots of examples of this. Benning, Botterill, Nill (?), Treliving, Fenton, Bergevin, Cheveldayoff

    Quite a few of these guys were AGM’s for Cup winning teams.

    D) Non-traditional backgrounds, including business and quantitative fields, including but not limited to statistical science and economics (Has Bob ever been to the Sloan conference? If not, why not?)

    I don’t believe any of the current GMs have non-hockey backgrounds. The majority have played in the NHL.

    E) Minority candidates, including women.

    Hmmm…

    F) Former analytics bloggers with experience in the game — e.g. Vic Ferrari, Tyler Dellow (before the latter was hired)

    Hmmm…

    If Nicholson goes with Holland, he’ll do what 10 other teams have done: hire a guy with prior GM experience.

    If he hires Gretzky, he’ll do what 12 other teams have done: promote one of their AGM’s.

    If he had hired McCrimmon, he would’ve done what 7 other teams have done: hired an AGM from another club. A bit unusual in choosing an AGM of a non-Cup winning team. But he was saved from that with VGK promoting from within.

    If he hires Hunter, he’ll do what no other club has done: go with a guy who’s currently working in Junior.

    You’re faulting Nicholson for not considering groups that other NHL teams (successful and unsuccessful) haven’t considered either. If he actually went ahead and made a hire from one of these groups, if he made an unconventional pick for GM in this time in this town, would that make you less furious? Or more?

    I would love an out-of-the-box pick. Why? Because the so-called “safe” options have destroyed this franchise.

    In hiring a GM, are you trying to win or are you trying to do what everyone else is doing? I think you’ve conclusively shown that many NHL teams show a certain behaviour when it comes to hiring, but I’m not so sure that that has anything to do with winning. Besides, Bob didn’t interview many top assistant GMs. I’m not really sure why, but I’m guessing he wasn’t looking very hard.

    Ralph Krueger successfully managed a European football team after being fired here. Andrew Friedman was successful with the Rays and with the Dodgers. Theo Epstein with the Sox is another. Mike Gillis was a non-traditional hire for the Canucks and did some nice things.

    Not so sure why a non-traditional candidate could not have even been included on the search list.

    IMO, it’s because the list was not comprehensive. That’s my entire point.

  146. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’ve never really looked at Hainsy – isn’t he old and a bottom pairing guy?

    He played first pairing with Dumoulin on the Penguins 2nd Stanley Cup run. And first pairing with Rielly for the last two years in Toronto, most of the time. (By first pairing, taking most of the hardest minutes).

    I am proposing signing him for one season to play 2nd pairing with Nurse.

  147. season not played says:

    Nit64,

    Respectfully,

    Have you ever heard our host on the radio, or read the blog?

    I’m not sure its out of line to go back in time.

  148. season not played says:

    Side:
    season not played,

    This is the worst supervillain origin story ever.

    I think its awesome you consider me a supervillain. Couple things…

    21 teams, 16 in the playoffs.

    Your would probably find my comment in response to the short film on WW2 entertaining, if not disturbing.

    I’m going to go ahead and guess you finished my story so it couldn’t have been that bad.

  149. Bulging Twine says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Well said. I feel the same way but the only thing that I can get out is
    “Fuck!”

    Hahahahahaha!

  150. season not played says:

    season not played:
    Nit64,

    Respectfully,

    Have you ever heard our host on the radio, or read the blog?

    I’m not sure its out of line to go back in time.

    My apologies Nit64 I’m a little cross eyed from staring at two sometime three screens today, depending on if my phone got involved.

    Both meant for side

  151. Georgexs says:

    Bling: I would love an out-of-the-box pick. Why? Because the so-called “safe” options have destroyed this franchise.

    In hiring a GM, are you trying to win or are you trying to do what everyone else is doing? I think you’ve conclusively shown that many NHL teams show a certain behaviour when it comes to hiring, but I’m not so sure that that has anything to do with winning. Besides, Bob didn’t interview many top assistant GMs. I’m not really sure why, but I’m guessing he wasn’t looking very hard.

    Ralph Krueger successfully managed a European football team after being fired here. Andrew Friedman was successful with the Rays and with the Dodgers. Theo Epstein with the Sox is another. Mike Gillis was a non-traditional hire for the Canucks and did some nice things.

    Not so sure why a non-traditional candidate could not have even been included on the search list.

    IMO, it’s because the list was not comprehensive. That’s my entire point.

    I see now. You’re describing what you think should have happened. But you also laid out many of the reasons why Nicholson was an unlikely man to make it happen.

  152. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Munny:
    Bling,

    To me, your list looks more like the kind of people a good GM should surround himself with.And should have some familiarity with.Holland might be the best choice from this pov.

    I don’t know him personally, so I have no idea how open-minded, innovative, committed to learning, data and process-oriented, etc etc he is.We can try and infer from the past but we aren’t going to get a very clear picture.

    He might be that guy he might not.My worry is whether the guy conducting the search has the ability to get this right.They should’ve started the hiring at CEO.

    Absolutely.

  153. Reja says:

    season not played: Actually it might even be a year ago. You’re a lawyer, door opened, and you’re right fairly arbitrary, no value added and the explanation probably doesn’t justify it.

    I was watching a WW2 documentary in which the filmmaker was justifying Hitlers actions with some half truths, made up stuff and omitting some important details and as I was doing this I was wormholing myselfon hockey dB in the show trade section of each player where you just keep checking the player who pops up as the guy traded for and then bouncing back and forth to the draft lists. You see I’ve been a hockey stats guy since the early 80s with the yearly stat books and I had this hobby hockey game my mom got me when I was about twelve where each player had a card and you used multiple dice and there were 5 slots on the board where you put in order left to right Ld, LW, C RW Rd and you rolled a handful of dice that used the columns of the player cards to move the puck through the three zones, clock ticked down, I think it was 10 seconds per zone, anyway most realistic hockey game you could get in the mid 80s. I would use the schedule from one of my stay books and play every game on that schedule for every team. Write down all the game summaries and after each game change the teams stats. Each team had a page, so pencil and eraser, every game so what is that on an16 team league 3200 games? And there were replacement player cards when the next real season started, did that for I think three seasons. There was a CFL game like that too but I didn’t find football stats as interesting as NHL numbers. Anyway, needless to say that isn’t the kind of interest that goes away.

    So as I’m watching this ridiculous WW2 thing that is making me more and more cranky, Alex Petrovic showed up in my wormhole and as I was examining him I was just thinking, man why would WG think this player is a top 4 d, in the first place, but also enough to respond to my comment about him not being one in a comment that I don’t believe involved WG in the first place. I thought it’s because he may be a long time fan but he is relatively new to following nhl statistics and his knowledge is likely almost exclusively based on his hobby of crunching numbers and basing his evaluations of players strictly on that. The reason I know he is relatively new and not nearly as knowledgeable as he would like everyone to think is because one day he made a comment comparing Taylor hall statistically to Marcel Dionne is that they were similar players in their point production. So, to not know off the top of his head that there really isn’t a comparison tells me his actual statistical hockey knowledge is likely limited to the 2006 cup run. Hey no fowl in that, but when he jumped on to insult me after my Petrovic comment in which he was obviously wrong; well let’s just say my anger from the show, Petrovic popping up on my laptop and an axe to grind over a needless but typical WG insult to attempt to display his superior hockey knowledge, let’s just call it a perfect storm.

    Is that going to work for you OP or would you like to display your obvious lack of any historical knowledge when it comes to the NHL.

    Just kidding buddy, you keep cranking out those pre written posts.

    I vaguely remember playing a form of this game with the neighbourhood gang it would have been in the late seventies and it was intense and a blast from what I recall.

  154. Glovjuice says:

    Munny:
    stephen sheps,

    They — male players — also do work their way up the organizational ladder.Some top out as scouts. I expect that is part of what GJ meant by “qualified”.I couldn’t support hiring Wickenheiser, for example, at this point in her career.

    Exactly. Someone on this blog; name ONE female you/this blog would welcome as GM of the Oilers.

  155. Glovjuice says:

    season not played: Actually it might even be a year ago. You’re a lawyer, door opened, and you’re right fairly arbitrary, no value added and the explanation probably doesn’t justify it.

    I was watching a WW2 documentary in which the filmmaker was justifying Hitlers actions with some half truths, made up stuff and omitting some important details and as I was doing this I was wormholing myselfon hockey dB in the show trade section of each player where you just keep checking the player who pops up as the guy traded for and then bouncing back and forth to the draft lists. You see I’ve been a hockey stats guy since the early 80s with the yearly stat books and I had this hobby hockey game my mom got me when I was about twelve where each player had a card and you used multiple dice and there were 5 slots on the board where you put in order left to right Ld, LW, C RW Rd and you rolled a handful of dice that used the columns of the player cards to move the puck through the three zones, clock ticked down, I think it was 10 seconds per zone, anyway most realistic hockey game you could get in the mid 80s. I would use the schedule from one of my stay books and play every game on that schedule for every team. Write down all the game summaries and after each game change the teams stats. Each team had a page, so pencil and eraser, every game so what is that on an16 team league 3200 games? And there were replacement player cards when the next real season started, did that for I think three seasons. There was a CFL game like that too but I didn’t find football stats as interesting as NHL numbers. Anyway, needless to say that isn’t the kind of interest that goes away.

    So as I’m watching this ridiculous WW2 thing that is making me more and more cranky, Alex Petrovic showed up in my wormhole and as I was examining him I was just thinking, man why would WG think this player is a top 4 d, in the first place, but also enough to respond to my comment about him not being one in a comment that I don’t believe involved WG in the first place. I thought it’s because he may be a long time fan but he is relatively new to following nhl statistics and his knowledge is likely almost exclusively based on his hobby of crunching numbers and basing his evaluations of players strictly on that. The reason I know he is relatively new and not nearly as knowledgeable as he would like everyone to think is because one day he made a comment comparing Taylor hall statistically to Marcel Dionne is that they were similar players in their point production. So, to not know off the top of his head that there really isn’t a comparison tells me his actual statistical hockey knowledge is likely limited to the 2006 cup run. Hey no fowl in that, but when he jumped on to insult me after my Petrovic comment in which he was obviously wrong; well let’s just say my anger from the show, Petrovic popping up on my laptop and an axe to grind over a needless but typical WG insult to attempt to display his superior hockey knowledge, let’s just call it a perfect storm.

    Is that going to work for you OP or would you like to display your obvious lack of any historical knowledge when it comes to the NHL.

    Just kidding buddy, you keep cranking out those pre written posts.

    Yikes

  156. Munny says:

    Bling: Kyle Dubas himself was a non-traditional hire. The Oilers didn’t even interview anyone like him. What does that say about the process?

    They also mentored him under a Holland-type… before making him GM.

  157. OriginalPouzar says:

    How does anyone here know that the Oilers “didn’t interview anyone like him”.?

  158. franksterra says:

    digger50,

    I think you’re first couple of paras are spot on.

    Some have suggested that this being his last kick at the Cup can he’ll be highly motivated. But my fear is the Oilers will be that new woodburning hobby out in the garage he didn’t think he’d ever have time for. Low stakes piddling.

  159. stephen sheps says:

    Glovjuice: Exactly. Someone on this blog; name ONE female you/this blog would welcome as GM of the Oilers.

    Glov, I’m really trying to understand your point of view here because it sure seems like you’re rejecting women because they’re women. Munny’s Point is a solid one – at this point very few women are in NHL organizations working their way up. But at the same time very few organizations have provided opportunities for women to work their way up. My point was more about social structure and the lack of opportunity available to specific groups, particularly due to the propensity for one specific group to keep dominating in a certain area. The “hockey men” trope is a trope for a reason.

    Sure, you’re probably right in that in this specific moment, right now for the Edmonton Oilers, it is highly unlikely that a fully qualified female candidate with existing relationships with the aforementioned “hockey men”, business savvy, a strong understanding of the cap and its idiosyncrasies and either a strong base in analytics (or at least the belief in it and desire to learn) does not exist. But if she did, let’s not exclude her from the conversation because she’s not a “hockey man”.

  160. CDog says:

    Oilers fans on this blog would not have been happy with anyone that was hired to be the new man for the Oilers. There has been too much pain and emotions are raw. Give whoever is hired a chance. Save the judgement for what happens in Edmonton.

  161. Lowetide says:

    stephen sheps: Glov, I’m really trying to understand your point of view here because it sure seems like you’re rejecting women because they’re women. Munny’s Point is a solid one – at this pointvery few women are in NHL organizations working their way up. But at the same time very few organizations have provided opportunities for women to work their way up. My point was more about social structure and the lack of opportunity available to specific groups, particularly due to the propensity for one specific group to keep dominating in a certain area. The “hockey men” trope is a trope for a reason.

    Sure, you’re probably right in that in this specific moment, right now for the Edmonton Oilers, it is highly unlikely that a fully qualified female candidate with existing relationships with the afroementioned “hockey men”, business savvy, a strong understanding of the cap and its idiosyncrasies and either a strong base in analytics (or at least the belief in it and desire to learn) does not exist. But if she did, let’s not exclude her from the conversation because she’s not a “hockey man”.

    Agreed. Women were never managers of radio or television stations when I entered the business, now it’s far more common. The biggest difference in those 40 years? Opportunity. Gender as a barrier is mostly attached to opportunity and the experience gained when opportunity arises, that would certainly apply in something like managing a hockey team.

  162. Glovjuice says:

    Lowetide: Agreed. Women were never managers of radio or television stations when I entered the business, now it’s far more common. The biggest difference in those 40 years? Opportunity. Gender as a barrier is mostly attached to opportunity and the experience gained when opportunity arises, that would certainly apply in something like managing a hockey team.

    Exactly, I’m not excluding at all. Simply saying that there are currently none qualified to be GM of The Oilers and suggesting they should be included in the current search is not what anyone here would accept as resonable at this time. This is not a controversial opinion (more of a fact, really).

  163. stephen sheps says:

    Glovjuice: Exactly, I’m not excluding at all. Simply saying that there are currently none qualified to be GM of The Oilers and suggesting they should be included in the current search is not what anyone here would accept as resonable at this time. This is not a controversial opinion (more of a fact, really).

    wonderful. then we’re saying the same thing. I hoped that would be the case.

    Lowetide: Agreed. Women were never managers of radio or television stations when I entered the business, now it’s far more common. The biggest difference in those 40 years? Opportunity. Gender as a barrier is mostly attached to opportunity and the experience gained when opportunity arises, that would certainly apply in something like managing a hockey team.

    Indeed. Hopefully we’ll start to see more changes in opportunity in the hockey world, but as we all know it’s one of the slowest to adapt relative to the other pro sports leagues in North America.

  164. meanashell11 says:

    season not played: Actually it might even be a year ago. You’re a lawyer, door opened, and you’re right fairly arbitrary, no value added and the explanation probably doesn’t justify it.

    I was watching a WW2 documentary in which the filmmaker was justifying Hitlers actions with some half truths, made up stuff and omitting some important details and as I was doing this I was wormholing myselfon hockey dB in the show trade section of each player where you just keep checking the player who pops up as the guy traded for and then bouncing back and forth to the draft lists. You see I’ve been a hockey stats guy since the early 80s with the yearly stat books and I had this hobby hockey game my mom got me when I was about twelve where each player had a card and you used multiple dice and there were 5 slots on the board where you put in order left to right Ld, LW, C RW Rd and you rolled a handful of dice that used the columns of the player cards to move the puck through the three zones, clock ticked down, I think it was 10 seconds per zone, anyway most realistic hockey game you could get in the mid 80s. I would use the schedule from one of my stay books and play every game on that schedule for every team. Write down all the game summaries and after each game change the teams stats. Each team had a page, so pencil and eraser, every game so what is that on an16 team league 3200 games? And there were replacement player cards when the next real season started, did that for I think three seasons. There was a CFL game like that too but I didn’t find football stats as interesting as NHL numbers. Anyway, needless to say that isn’t the kind of interest that goes away.

    So as I’m watching this ridiculous WW2 thing that is making me more and more cranky, Alex Petrovic showed up in my wormhole and as I was examining him I was just thinking, man why would WG think this player is a top 4 d, in the first place, but also enough to respond to my comment about him not being one in a comment that I don’t believe involved WG in the first place. I thought it’s because he may be a long time fan but he is relatively new to following nhl statistics and his knowledge is likely almost exclusively based on his hobby of crunching numbers and basing his evaluations of players strictly on that. The reason I know he is relatively new and not nearly as knowledgeable as he would like everyone to think is because one day he made a comment comparing Taylor hall statistically to Marcel Dionne is that they were similar players in their point production. So, to not know off the top of his head that there really isn’t a comparison tells me his actual statistical hockey knowledge is likely limited to the 2006 cup run. Hey no fowl in that, but when he jumped on to insult me after my Petrovic comment in which he was obviously wrong; well let’s just say my anger from the show, Petrovic popping up on my laptop and an axe to grind over a needless but typical WG insult to attempt to display his superior hockey knowledge, let’s just call it a perfect storm.

    Is that going to work for you OP or would you like to display your obvious lack of any historical knowledge when it comes to the NHL.

    Just kidding buddy, you keep cranking out those pre written posts.

    I like this!

  165. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    season not played:
    Is Woodguy still around these days? I would appreciate it if he could explain to me again why Alex Petrovic is a top 4 D in the NHL because I don’t know anything about the league or the players in it.

    Thanks in advance.

    I mentioned that he was the most sheltered Dman in the NHL this summer here:

    https://lowetide.ca/2018/08/17/is-there-a-trade-out-there-that-makes-sense/#comment-757240

    Another post from Dec 2018 where I said:

    Honestly this team needs to aim higher than Petrovic for 2RD.

    He’s ok at 3RD and moving up to 2RD in a pinch.

    https://lowetide.ca/2018/12/13/game-32-2018-19-oilers-at-jets/comment-page-1/#comment-793195

    And the day they traded for him I gave a run down of his recent results and described him here:

    Summary: By eye he’s a little slow, but decent at getting the puck back as a 3rd pairing Dman. His metrics are “ok” for a 3rd pairing Dman except for this year.

    Probably will have a similar effect as Gryba, but not as slow as Gryba.

    https://lowetide.ca/2018/12/30/under-pressure/comment-page-1/#comment-798171

    I like Petrovic a lot 2 years ago, but he’s faded fast.

    Also,

    For a guy who declared the Hall trade to be the best thing since sliced bread your post is a bit rich.

    Its like going into someone’s house, taking a shit in the sink then bitching about crumbs in the breadbox.

  166. season not played says:

    I’m a little busy. Why don’t you track down where you said he is a top 4 dman but I would know that if I knew anything about the nhl and the playes in it. None of your cherry picking truth twisting garbage when you know you’re wrong. No post editing after you’ve been caught in a lie either.

  167. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    season not played:
    I’m a little busy. Why don’t you track down where you said he is a top 4 dman but I would know that if I knew anything about the nhl and the playes in it.None of your cherry picking truth twisting garbage when you know you’re wrong. No post editing after you’ve been caught in a lie either.

    Two things:

    1) I said right in my post: “I like Petrovic a lot 2 years ago, but he’s faded fast.”
    2) You can’t edit old posts

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca