A Time to Reap, A Time to Sow

If you look at Ken Holland’s back story, you might get the idea the Oilers are in for a quiet summer. Holland doesn’t make a lot of trades, and when he does it’s usually a pick for a player or vice versa. His teams are about draft and develop, adding free-agent pieces, and counting on the minor league system to produce a good crop. Will it be a quiet summer?

THE ATHLETIC

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group.INSANE NEW OFFER IS HERE!

  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s Bakersfield production line: Elevating Jones and how long will success take?
  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s procurement list for his rumored move to Edmonton will include front-office personnel
  • New Jonathan Willis: A Milan Lucic trade is at the top of the to-do list for the Oilers’ next GM.
  • New Jonathan Willis: Why Edmonton should expand its GM shortlist now that Kelly McCrimmon is out of the running
  • New Lowetide: Should Oilers practice more patience in adding Evan Bouchard to the roster?
  • Jonathan Willis: Is Ken Holland yesterday’s man or the ideal GM candidate for the Oilers?
  • Lowetide: Jesse Puljujarvi and his uncertain future with the Oilers
  • Lowetide: ‘I see something special’: Are Oilers prepared to make Caleb Jones a fixture on the roster next season?
  • Jonathan Willis: Gritty comeback performance sends Edmonton’s farm team to the second round of the AHL playoffs.
  • Lowetide: Dylan Cozens might be ideal fit for Oilers at No. 8 overall in the 2019 draft
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Hard to please, but easy to work for’: How Sean Burke’s philosophy as a GM would benefit the Oilers.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A dogged realist, Kelly McCrimmon’s resume makes him an attractive candidate for the Oilers GM job
  • New Lowetide: Is this the season the Oilers take the plunge and draft a USHL player in the first round?
  • Jonathan Willis: Top Oilers prospect Evan Bouchard stars in his first AHL game as Condors dominate.
  • Lowetide: Adam Larsson’s importance to the Oilers and why trading him is a bad idea.
  • Lowetide: Tyler Benson’s comparables offer Oilers fans plenty of hope for the future.
  • Lowetide: Making the call on the Oilers’ RFAs with a new general manager on the way.
  • Lowetide: Red Wings front office shuffle could impact Oilers’ future.
  • Jonathan Willis: Potential coaching candidates and why the Oilers don’t need to rush the GM search to get one
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ten prospects likely to be available when the Oilers make their first-round pick

HOLLAND’S TO-DO LIST

*Two scoring wingers
*Cap room
*No. 3 RH center
*Top 4 RHD who can move the puck
*Backup goalie

Ken Holland hasn’t made very many player-for-player deals since the rebuild started. The last notable deal was a draft swap with Arizona to dump the Pavel Datsyuk money in the desert, but that wasn’t a “summer deal that moves the roster forward” deal either. In the cap era, Ken Holland hasn’t used the trade route to make a one-for-one type deal. It’s picks for players or vice versa, all down the line. So, how will he handle the list above? Let’s talk about free agency.

FREE AGENTS, SUMMER 2018

Detroit needed scoring, so signed winger Tomas Vanek to a one-year deal at $3 million. Low risk, he’s an established scorer long in the tooth and it’s just for the season. Maybe you trade him at the deadline. He scored 16 in 64 games for the Red Wings, not quite Alex Chiasson stats but he posted 1.87 5-on-5 points per 60. It pushed back kids like Zadina and Rasmussen, giving the team more depth because close to NHL-ready players started in Grand Rapids. I think that’s a reasonable spend.

Detroit needed some help in goal, and bet Jonathan Bernier on a three-year deal at $3 million per season. Again this dovetails nicely with Edmonton’s current situation. Bernier had save percentages of .908, .915 and .913 for three different teams, and he never played fewer than 37 games in any of those three seasons. He was 29 when Holland signed him.

Bernier played a lot (35 games) for a backup, with mediocre results (3.16, .904). You’d like to see the term closer to Vanek but Detroit had already missed out on Carter Hutton and Cam Ward so may have been running out of options. (Source)

Detroit needed a RH defenseman who could move the puck and help on the power play, again a doppelganger for Edmonton last summer (save for cap room). Re-signing Mike Green was the choice, two years at $5.375 million per season. He got hurt, posted 5-21-26 in 43 games with the winged wheel. Not that it’ll be important, but he has a NMC that modifies this summer.

Holland was in rebuild mode, so the Vanek deal makes sense but the longer term deals on defense and in goal are more difficult to defend. If the team had checked down to the next man behind Bernier, would it have made a tremendous difference? Well, Robin Lehner was signed to a one-year deal for $1.5 million on July 3, he was pretty good. The Green signing was two years at a lot of coin, but will give a player like Hronek some time to find his way.

Holland’s work in free agency last summer is open to criticism, but the three signings fall short of the ‘reefer madness’ I’ve been reading about online. There is no Milan Lucic signing in the group, as an example, and Holland was spending cap to buy time during a rebuild. The third year for the goalie seems the biggest issue and Bernier had a reasonable resume.Maybe Holland will trade for him.

HOLLAND’S TO-DO LIST

*Two scoring wingers
*Cap room
*No. 3 RH center
*Top 4 RHD who can move the puck
*Backup goalie

So, how many of these things get done over the summer? CapFriendly suggests Edmonton has $8 million in cap room with 15 players signed. Once contracts are doled out to Jesse Puljujarvi, Jujhar Khaira and Alex Chiasson, there will be $3 million or less. Elevate Caleb Jones and we’re looking at $1 million.

Ken Holland has three choices:

1 He can take a pipe wrench to the roster, trading Adam Larsson, Nuge and other assets (picks, Samorukov) in an effort to make the team in his own image immediately.

2 He can use the opening media avail to inform Oilers fans that it’s going to be a build, that the team will be better but that there are miles to go. He could tell them that his experience in the game allows him to be certain that a flurry of summer trades, without knowing the roster and the prospects, would be a very bad idea. He could even mention Griffin Reinhart.

3 He can be aggressive, trading Kris Russell or Andrej Sekera, signing a Bernier-type as backup goalie, trading for Riley Nash to fill the No. 3 center hole, adding a Vanek and hoping Kailer Yamamoto or Jesse Puljujarvi can finally come through. It might not look pretty but the kids in the minors may be ready to push and that’s a Godsend.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning at the front of an insane week in Edmonton. We get things started at 10, TSN1260. We’ll open up the phone lines at 10:20 to give you a chance to chime in on the Holland signing, then at 10:40 Keegan Matheson from Baseball Toronto will be by to talk Vladdy Guerrero and pitching. Jason Gregor will offer his thoughts on Holland and the news to come over the summer at 11:05. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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165 Responses to "A Time to Reap, A Time to Sow"

  1. Primetime says:

    As per McKenzie twitter:

    Verbeek to Detroit
    Murray and everyone else stays in TB

  2. frjohnk says:

    After what we just had, I would have been OK with a potato as GM.

    Cheering for Holland to help get this team out of the ditch.

  3. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Primetime:
    As per McKenzie twitter:

    Verbeek to Detroit
    Murray and everyone else stays in TB

    That’s a big deal.

    Might mean Wright stays in DET too, which would be a good thing imo.

    I wonder how Yz will do without Murray?

  4. Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR says:

    I do like the autonomy part. Like this hire or not, he will no doubt be the one running things. Other candidates probably didn’t have the resume to either demand this or to be sure they would maintain it after they got the job. I’m on board because of this.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    *Two scoring wingers
    *Cap room
    *No. 3 RH center
    *Top 4 RHD who can move the puck
    *Backup goalie

    ————————–

    I would re-order this as:

    – Back-up goalie – need a substantial back-up/1B given the unknown of the “starter” – this is the Brian Elliot for $2.25M, the trade for Thomas Griess, the Ryan Miller type short-term acquisition

    – Cap space – reasonableness needs to be used here. No buyouts – dead cap hits extending beyond current terms is not acceptable. Russell is the primary reasonable disposition – the key is a clean disposition and return is gravy. May need to retain $500K. Of course, Lucic out would be great but the pain cannot be too great – something like the 8th overall for a clean disposition is too painful for me. If we retain the $3M and can add a sweetener along the lines of Bear (max), then maybe.

    – 2RD – just a stop gap though on a 2-year max deal (unless we are doing a major move with a Nurse or Klefbom out). Stralman would be great a 2 X $4M but i don’t imagine it would happen. Faulk and Spurgeon are good one-year rental options but acquisition cost would be too expensive given they would just be one-year acquisitions to me – I don’t want to re-sign anyone for their late 20s/30s. Tim Heed is another thought – the numbers do support potential top 4 but that is a risk and, if he’s another bottom pairing guy, well, we have plenty of options already.

    – Forwards – Unless somehow cap space is opened up, I’m doing the reasonable bet thing for one more year. A guy like Brandon Pirri would be a great bet. Maybe even Daniel Carr

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’d be OK acquiring Bernier and the last 2 years of his contract on the assumption that the acquisition cost would be quite immaterial. I think he could bounce back and be a solid 1B guy. $3M is a bit steep given his struggles this past year – maybe DET retains $750K?

  7. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR:
    I do like the autonomy part.Like this hire or not, he will no doubt be the one running things.Other candidates probably didn’t have the resume to either demand this or to be sure they would maintain it after they got the job.I’m on board because of this.

    Yes, I agree. While the interviewing “process”, leaks, etc have been gong show (because Oilers), I am “OK” with Holland because the odds are quite high that he will have “true autonomy” and that his history is more about draft/develop & tweak – not swinging for the fences with almost every trade. Because I think with the roster tweaks that have been discussed on this blog and elsewhere for the past few months, this ship can get back on course this year and barring any major injuries, should be middle of the pack competitive in 2020-2021.

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    Out of those 3 options, I go with a combo of 2/3.

    The key is that ownership does not give him the mandate that he must turn this thing around in one off season and make high risk transactions in the name of immediate improvement. Cap hell dissipates within a few years and the asset acquisition base should be strong at that point along with the young core in their prime.

  9. Coiler says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s a big deal.

    Might mean Wright stays in DET too, which would be a good thing imo.

    I wonder how Yz will do without Murray?

    Great point. Murray made Yzerman look like a genius during his time there in terms of his picks.

    There is no doubt Holland has a big mess to sort out in Edmonton now. But I personally don’t think he mismanaged the cap as badly as many have noted in the blog. Short term pain with the view that drafted and developed players will be ready to take on those roles in 1-2 years time ins’t a bad thing.

    One point I would hope all can agree on is that he doesn’t make knee-jerk reaction trades like Chiarelli did and he does have the acumen to pull off trades that he does win. Something that LT has noted this team needs…in spades.

  10. Munny says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s a big deal.

    Might mean Wright stays in DET too, which would be a good thing imo.

    I wonder how Yz will do without Murray?

    Behind every good GM there’s a good scout.

    Y-Z’s lucky because the cupboards have already been half-stocked by Holland, and they’ve got something like 11 picks going into this draft.

  11. JimmyV1965 says:

    The Holland signing if less than inspiring. As an Oiler fan, I can only hope that it actually works out this time. We wait and see.

  12. OilersFuture says:

    I think the roster will be tweaked, not blown up. I could see some mid-range free agents such as Filpulla, Vanek (both have ties to Holland). Some minor trades maybe picking up a guy like T van Riemsdyk. The biggest move I could see if a guy like Russell for a player like Jake Allen, James Reimer or perhaps Alex Wennberg.

    In my opinion, what he does with the roster is less important than how he structures the organization.

    1. Organizational Structure. They have THREE VP of Hockey Ops and another Director of Hockey Ops. Who does what?
    2. Amateur side – If Gretzky runs the draft what does Green do? Why do we have Crosson, Virmanen & Harlow on the scouting staff for nearly 10 years, with limited amount of success. Eklund has also been there for 10 years but he’s found some players like Klefbom, Gustafsson and Lagesson.
    3. Who runs player development & personnel? Seriously who does? I don’t see a director of player development. For example Toronto have 3 Director of Player development and two Dir of Player Personal and one Dir of Player Evaluation. In my opinion trading for Hawkey and then not signing him is a big problem. How did that happen? How do we prevent the same thing from happening too Marino or Kemp.
    4. From the Hockey Operations side. The 4 Hockey Ops managers are; MacTavish, Howson, Sutter and Scott. I think you need to keep at least one to work on internal player evaluation. Who do you keep? How do you separate the roles so that their positions are clearly defined. How do you, essentially implement a player analytics group from scratch? BTW – Holland had an analytic group in Detroit. How quickly will they be up to speed? And will the hockey operations group listen too them?
    5. Pro Scouting Staff. I think you scrap that whole department. But, how quickly do you get your own people in place? How do you prepare for the off-season for free agent and player acquisition targets? Who will shake loose from Detroit?

    I care more about these questions.

    Personally, I think the team can compete for a playoff spot this year and with proper management can be out of cap hell starting in 2020-21 if done properly.

  13. ArmchairGM says:

    Lowetide:
    *No. 3 RH center

    We already have that guy: Sam Gagner.

    😉

  14. Dustylegnd says:

    JimmyV1965:
    The Holland signing if less than inspiring. As an Oiler fan, I can only hope that it actually works out this time. We wait and see.

    The best part is that Holland is 64 on November….. does he really want to be in Edmonton in Winter Time when he is 69???? seems absurd….job 1 is stocking his management team with depth and an eventual successor…maybe just maybe he gets real innovative with his 25 million of guaranteed money

    if he looks around he will realize his entire staff is about the same age with very similar back grounds as good hockey men…not only is it group think…its group think with almost 0 philosophical variation….either you get it really right…or really wrong…..one has to hope Holland pulls the Costanza at a minimum…

    “What do you guys think is the correct mover here, hmmm interesting” internal dialogue “hmm I will do the opposite”….could be pure genius

  15. Pouzar says:

    The latest from the Rowdy one:

    “Don’t believe the rumours that Dave Tippett will be his coach. **UPDATE – I was told Sunday afternoon there is some merit to this report. Stay tuned. ** ”

    https://oilersnation.com/2019/05/06/ken-holland-coaching-options/

  16. Jaxon says:

    Anyone else cheering for Stars, Avs, and Blue Jackets to win their series? With no horse in the race I’d love to see an all wild card final four.

    The only problem with that is that it may decrease the amount of trade deadline moves in the future as teams may see just squeeking in as being a legitimate contender. And I love the trade deadline.

  17. flea says:

    Why does it take the Oilers so long to annouce or do anything? This has been leaked. Now reports are saying the contract has to be signed still.

    They are the only org that seems to do things in the most painful, drawn out way possible. Just like this whole GM search.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/longtime-red-wings-executive-ken-holland-expected-join-oilers/

    Not inspiring much confidence. Just announce the damn GM. And stop leaking it to the media if you aren’t ready to.

  18. godot10 says:

    Matt Niskanen has two years left at $5.75 million, and the Capitals need some cap space. They just signed Jensen, perhaps as a 2nd pairing right D.

    A stop-gap D target, if the Oilers can create cap space.

    Benning is a cheap legit 3rd pairing D.

    Benning plus something for Niskanen..

    Just throwing stuff up against the wall.

    Toronto is probably a better fit with Washington for a Niskanen trade.

  19. Bag of Pucks says:

    The hope now has to be an exodus of OBC lifers accompanied by an infusion of new talent and perspectives.

    The references to Holland having actual autonomy are encouraging. Now let’s see if it actually rolls out that way when the rubber hits the road.

    If Holland doesn’t want his mission to be undermined, he needs to quickly build his own team of trusted advisors and throw a grenade at the Red Wine Summit cabal. That is job one.

  20. Alpine says:

    godot10:
    Matt Niskanen has two years left at $5.75 million, and the Capitals need some cap space.They just signed Jensen, perhaps as a 2nd pairing right D.

    A stop-gap D target, if the Oilers can create cap space.

    Benning is a cheap legit 3rd pairing D.

    Benning plus something for Niskanen..

    Just throwing stuff up against the wall.

    Toronto is probably a better fit with Washington for a Niskanen trade.

    I like Niskanen a lot but he does have a 10 team no trade list. Hopefully we aren’t one of those ten teams.

  21. ArmchairGM says:

    godot10: Matt Niskanen has two years left at $5.75 million, and the Capitals need some cap space. They just signed Jensen, perhaps as a 2nd pairing right D.

    Bogosian in Buffalo is another guy I’d look at. He has just 1 year left at similar money. Buffalo isn’t cap-strapped so they’ll be less desperate to make a deal, but also more likely to take some cap back – something that could benefit us.

  22. YKOil says:

    Given the team’s now involved. Green could also be the summer RHD pick-up.

  23. Jethro Tull says:

    We’re telling Connor that his wingers are potentially 2-5yrs away, IF we pick and develop right at THIS year’s draft?

    OK then. Hopefully he’s happy with being the best player in the league on one of the worst teams.

  24. Woogie63 says:

    Holland is starting in a MUCH better spot than PC.

    We are capped out, but we have lots of good/great long term contract (nobody talks about an overpay on Leon like they did when he signed)

    Our Conveyor belts is working pretty good

    to get started for Holland,

    3 Year Pro
    Russell

    2 year Pro
    Gambardella
    Bear
    Jones
    Starrett
    Lagesson
    Persson

    1 year Pro
    Benson
    Marody
    Yamamoto
    Skinner
    Wells

    Turning Pro
    Maksimov
    McLeod
    Safin
    Bouchard
    Samorukov

    Good Contracts
    McDavid, Draisaitl, Hopkins, Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, Puljujarvi

    Bad Contracts
    Lucic, Gagner, Russell, Koskinen

  25. vinotintazo says:

    what about Mike Green ? is he done?

  26. Munny says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Improvement in net and marginal improvement in D would have us in the playoffs.

  27. Pouzar says:

    Knoblauch let go in PHI

  28. slopitch says:

    RE Hollands 3 options. Please say no to the pipe wrench approach. Ace the draft (Cozens/Boldy/Caufield or BPA, plus skill throughout). Move one of Russell or Sekera out – either for a winger would be ideal. And find some capable wingers for Drai, McDavid and Nuge after July 15th. You can accelerate this thing but they tried in 2015 and when the Hamilton deal fell through they should have waited it out. Gotta be opportunistic.

    Who is this years Grubauer? I do think finding a good 1B option is important to get into the playoffs next year.

    2 days in and no one has mentioned Datsyuk? He’d be a great mentor to our boy Nuge. Nuge can play LW. Age 40 though… not much runway left.

  29. leadfarmer says:

    Primetime:
    As per McKenzie twitter:

    Verbeek to Detroit
    Murray and everyone else stays in TB

    I wonder what he is offering Tampa for Point

  30. Munny says:

    slopitch,

    He’s been mentioned over the weekend. It’s not clear why he would choose Edmonton over Detroit, but it appears from reports that he wants to end his career with his hometown squad in Ekaterinberg in any case.

  31. Munny says:

    ArmchairGM: Bogosian in Buffalo is another guy I’d look at. He has just 1 year left at similar money. Buffalo isn’t cap-strapped so they’ll be less desperate to make a deal, but also more likely to take some cap back – something that could benefit us.

    Bogo is Larsson for a million more a year. I cannot see the Oilers trading for one year of that.

  32. alberta bound edmonton says:

    The top priority for Holland will be goal tending. Expect he will clear cap space (Russell)
    then look to see who might be available in free agency or via a trade

  33. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    *Two scoring wingers
    *Cap room
    *No. 3 RH center
    *Top 4 RHD who can move the puck
    *Backup goalie

    ————————–

    I would re-order this as:

    – Back-up goalie – need a substantial back-up/1B given the unknown of the “starter” – this is the Brian Elliot for $2.25M, the trade for Thomas Griess, the Ryan Miller type short-term acquisition

    – Cap space – reasonableness needs to be used here.No buyouts – dead cap hits extending beyond current terms is not acceptable.Russell is the primary reasonable disposition – the key is a clean disposition and return is gravy.May need to retain $500K.Of course, Lucic out would be great but the pain cannot be too great – something like the 8th overall for a clean disposition is too painful for me. If we retain the $3M and can add a sweetener along the lines of Bear (max), then maybe.

    – 2RD – just a stop gap though on a 2-year max deal (unless we are doing a major move with a Nurse or Klefbom out). Stralman would be great a 2 X $4M but i don’t imagine it would happen.Faulk and Spurgeon are good one-year rental options but acquisition cost would be too expensive given they would just be one-year acquisitions to me – I don’t want to re-sign anyone for their late 20s/30s. Tim Heed is another thought – the numbers do support potential top 4 but that is a risk and, if he’s another bottom pairing guy, well, we have plenty of options already.

    – Forwards – Unless somehow cap space is opened up, I’m doing the reasonable bet thing for one more year. A guy like Brandon Pirri would be a great bet.Maybe even Daniel Carr

    Two bonafide top 6-9 wingers are needed before bringing in another d-man with the likes of Jones, Lagesson etal in the minors. The team needs scoring depth now.

  34. Durag says:

    Jonathan Willis wrote about the idea of a 50% retained Lucic for James Reimer trade. I think that’s a great option to address stop-gap goaltending and is actually a plausible way to get Lucic off the books. Cap neutral for 2 years then 3M savings.

  35. Oilman99 says:

    Jaxon:
    Anyone else cheering for Stars, Avs, and Blue Jackets to win their series? With no horse in the race I’d love to see an all wild card final four.

    The only problem with that is that it may decrease the amount of trade deadline moves in the future as teams may see just squeeking in as being a legitimate contender. And I love the trade deadline.

    Too many old memories of past meetings with the Stars, just can’t cheer for Columbus because of their coach, go Avs.

  36. Rich M says:

    frjohnk:
    After what we just had, I would have been OK with a potato as GM.

    Cheering for Holland to help get this team out of the ditch.

    This sums it up perfectly. I keep thinking we can’t do any worse than what we’ve seen, yet Oiler GM’s the last decade have managed to exceed our worst fears time and again.

    Godspeed Mr. Holland.

  37. Oilman99 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    We’re telling Connor that his wingers are potentially 2-5yrs away, IF we pick and develop right at THIS year’s draft?

    OK then.Hopefully he’s happy with being the best player in the league on one of the worst teams.

    Furthermore,RNH will be gone as a FA by that time after ten years of mediocrity.

  38. jeetz says:

    Predictions:

    Hopeful everyone currently in Bakersfield starts there next year and none on the oilers roster.

    Speaking of roster, hope it is locked in for game 1. No more spending 10-20 games evaluating players for roster spots. How many games do we lose at the beginning with a roster in a state of flux.

    There will be a statue of Holland beside Gretzky’s if he can move Lucic and Russell with minimal damage.

    I would not be surprised to see Eberle back for the right price.

    Say hello to an analytics department, to Tippet and a mitt full of front office personnel with legit nhl experience not connected to the old boys club

    Say good bye to Sutter, Howson, Scott most of the scouting staff and goalie coach. MacT and K Gretzky and Hitchcock (not coach role) all stay.

    The big player moves I see are Puljujarvi to Winnipeg for Trouba, and Yamamoto to Toronto for one of Johnsson, or Kapanen as main pieces

    Sekera nurse, Larsson and Klefbom all return next year

  39. Jethro Tull says:

    frjohnk: After what we just had, I would have been OK with a potato as GM.

    We’ll have to see what he’s like when the chips are down. Can he mash together a team? Or will he get creamed? He’ll have to keep an eye on the market, but at least he’s not green. I wonder if he’ll go after Thomas Tater.

  40. Woogie63 says:

    Oilman99: Furthermore,RNH will be gone as a FA by that time after ten years of mediocrity.

    Who is mediocre RNH? Oilers?

  41. StixMalone says:

    I don’t know how I feel about this hire. One part says ok we got a respected ops guy. The other says here we go again. Big $$$ spent to get this guy too. I guess I have no choice but to cheer him on and hope for the best but jeez these guys are senior citizens ( Bobby, Hitch, Ken ) with a great pension fund now. Was really hoping to get a younger forward thinking group going forward but now I’m not so sure. Hearing rumblings of Tippett as coach really is making my head ache…..

  42. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – The annual armchair GM contest is closed with the Holland Hire: had about 45 entries…

    – As with Chia: Holland’s “full autonomy” is the rub. Having Keith as your 1A, just as MacT was Chia’s 1A is not “full autonomy” But I’m willing to wait a full-season to see what happens

    – There is no way that there are not better/ innovative/ fresher/ different management than MacT, Howson, Green, Sutter, Scott, Hitch, Lowe, Keith for their respective roles.

    – If full autonomy means that in 12 months most of these guys are still here, at least Holland should presumably have more hockey acumen

    – Holland will also be selecting the new Coach, which is huge, as there was a significant disconnect between Chia’s vision and Coach’s deployment: Chia did not hire Coach: MacT and Bob did, and Chia “signed off” at same time he was hired: massive opportunity IMO

    – And finally, Holland I think is the “best hire” that we could imagine Bob coming up with. Whether he (like Babcock), can win the Cup in an era that is different than the one where both Babcock and Holland built their reputations: we wait

    GOILERS!!!!!

  43. LMHF#1 says:

    One funny thing around these hirings always – a firing offence is a firing offence…there is no “they need 2 years” or “we’ll evaluate later” with successful orgs. If someone makes a big enough mistake, it has to be dealt with. Otherwise you’re intentionally being worse than you could be – which is insane.

  44. v4ance says:

    Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers

    OFFICIAL: The #Flyers have hired Michel Therrien and Mike Yeo to serve as assistant coaches on head coach Alain Vigneault’s staff.

    200 Hockey men strike again!

    Hiring retreads means it won’t take long for them to get the team up to speed on their systems.

    On the other hand, there won’t be any innovative improvements in the team since they’ll try the same tactics that got them fired in other organizations.

    For the Oilers, what was even the point of hiring Viveros, a supposed WHL powerplay genius, only to give the PP to Gulutzan. It’s like, “Hey, I bought this Ferrarri but I’ll keep it in the garage and street race in my Ford Taurus.”

    My hope is they (re-)hire Todd Nelson as Head coach and give Viveros a true shot at running the PP. We’re already at the bottom 1/3 of the league. Why not try something new?

  45. texmex says:

    v4ance:
    Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers

    OFFICIAL: The #Flyers have hired Michel Therrien and Mike Yeo to serve as assistant coaches on head coach Alain Vigneault’s staff.

    200 Hockey men strike again!

    Hiring retreads means it won’t take long for them to get the team up to speed on their systems.

    On the other hand, there won’t be any innovative improvements in the team since they’ll try the same tactics that got them fired in other organizations.

    For the Oilers, what was even the point of hiring Viveros, a supposed WHL powerplay genius, only to give the PP to Gulutzan.It’s like, “Hey, I bought this Ferrarri but I’ll keep it in the garage and street race in my Ford Taurus.”

    My hope is they (re-)hire Todd Nelson as Head coach and give Viveros a true shot at running the PP.We’re already at the bottom 1/3 of the league.Why not try something new?

    Weren’t the oilers 9th overall on the PP this season?

  46. ArmchairGM says:

    vinotintazo:
    what about Mike Green ? is he done?

    About as sheltered as Matt Benning with worse corsi and DFF%.

  47. ArmchairGM says:

    Munny: Bogo is Larsson for a million more a year.I cannot see the Oilers trading for one year of that.

    I’d rather have Bogo than Russell. Or Gagner, for that matter. I’d even trade him for Sekera.

  48. vinotintazo says:

    ArmchairGM: About as sheltered as Matt Benning with worse corsi and DFF%.

    I thought he was top pair in DET, so I guess pass.

  49. v4ance says:

    texmex: Weren’t the oilers 9th overall on the PP this season?

    How many good opportunities or goals did the second unit create this year? The amount of talent on the first unit almost guarantees they’ll be a good PP. The effectiveness of the second unit is entirely within the coach’s realm of control.

  50. Bank Shot says:

    Ken Holland hasn’t made a significant hockey trade in 15 years.

    It’s essentially been either buying or selling at the deadline.

    Two of his last two deadline purchases had Janmark and Jarnkrok going out the door for players that were finished in the NHL.

    Hopefully the man can overhaul the drafting and development of the org and put them on the right path in that regard over the next decade, but seems like any thoughts of a quick turnaround go out the window with the Holland hiring.

  51. Réal Goudenyéu says:

    I’m curious what move would need to occur to show that Holland indeed has “full anatomy”…

  52. Primetime says:

    v4ance: How many good opportunities or goals did the second unit create this year?The amount of talent on the first unit almost guarantees they’ll be a good PP.The effectiveness of the second unit is entirely within the coach’s realm of control.

    Yeah, I see your point…also seemed like they scored a lot on the rush on the PP this year, like they do 5 on 5.

    If Glutzan gets promoted to HC then maybe he delegates to Manny?

  53. Gerta Rauss says:

    Munny: Bogo is Larsson for a million more a year.I cannot see the Oilers trading for one year of that.

    Depends on the price

    My bigger concern is apparently he had (another) hip surgery recently and recovery time is 5-6 months

  54. Primetime says:

    Also funny to see Stauffer immediately start tweeting out the Knoblach would be an excellent ASSISTANT coach somewhere….

    Dammit, he worked so hard on the old regime to convince them to make him head coach! He was that close! No he has no connection to the new regime and is left soft selling his ideas…

  55. Nit64 says:

    Réal Goudenyéu:
    I’m curious what move would need to occur to show that Holland indeed has “full anatomy”…

    ~ Even Thanos would not be able to prove full autonomy. His snap would leave half the management group in place ~

  56. Alpine says:

    v4ance:
    Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers

    OFFICIAL: The #Flyers have hired Michel Therrien and Mike Yeo to serve as assistant coaches on head coach Alain Vigneault’s staff.

    200 Hockey men strike again!

    Hiring retreads means it won’t take long for them to get the team up to speed on their systems.

    On the other hand, there won’t be any innovative improvements in the team since they’ll try the same tactics that got them fired in other organizations.

    For the Oilers, what was even the point of hiring Viveros, a supposed WHL powerplay genius, only to give the PP to Gulutzan.It’s like, “Hey, I bought this Ferrarri but I’ll keep it in the garage and street race in my Ford Taurus.”

    My hope is they (re-)hire Todd Nelson as Head coach and give Viveros a true shot at running the PP.We’re already at the bottom 1/3 of the league.Why not try something new?

    The Oilers had a top 10 PP this past seasons. Maybe some shooting luck there, but I haven’t looked. How do we know it’s not a collaborative effort between Gully and Viveiros?

  57. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Réal Goudenyéu:
    I’m curious what move would need to occur to show that Holland indeed has “full anatomy”…

    – In my mind, over the next 12 months many of the following occur:

    1) New Coach is clearly a Holland hire, on same page

    2) Some of the assistants are gone

    3) Howson and MacT aren’t at draft table (they aren’t involved in drafting anyways)

    4) Keith is not the only AGM (so a Leaf type-structure)

    5) The other AGM(s), are actually “gets” who are viewed as future GMs (Keith is not on anyones list ex-Oil as potential GM-in-waiting), with better pedigrees and experience than Keith

    6) Some of MacT, Howson, Green, Scott, Hitch Lowe, are replaced by well-regarded hockey op people, or at least a “shadow cabinet” is formed, to allow them to leave with dignity next 12 months

    7) They bring in some cool analytic / sports medicine / skill development guys

    8) Bob moves to IIHF

    9) Moves can’t be primarily based on qualifications of having bled Oil, or family

    10) Katz actually comes out and says “this time it’s different”, and thanks the loyalty of some/many/all of those who have been with him since he bought the team, and says it’s go time

    11) No leaks: and guys like Stauffer who are mouth pieces for when the org wants to fire someone, gets replaced, and we don’t have to read nonsense about how the OBC wasn’t involved ever

    12) The org actually has, and shares a “plan”

  58. JimmyV1965 says:

    Someone mentioned Russell for Perrault a couple weeks ago. A deal like that makes complete sense for both teams.

  59. Durag says:

    Réal Goudenyéu:
    I’m curious what move would need to occur to show that Holland indeed has “full anatomy”…

    I think he has kids, so at least he did at some point..

  60. Darth Tu says:

    Nit64: ~ Even Thanos would not be able to prove full autonomy. His snap would leave half the management group in place~

    Amazing.

  61. Nit64 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: 3) Howson and MacT aren’t at draft table (they aren’t involved in drafting anyways)

    ~ Player dev should be at the draft, but maybe we can sit them up in the stands with the parents. ~

  62. Dustylegnd says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: 11) No leaks: and guys like Stauffer who are mouth pieces for when the org wants to fire someone, gets replaced, and we don’t have to read nonsense about how the OBC wasn’t involve

    Has Always amazed me how a 4th line Midget AAA player (Stauffer) secured a job as an NHL colour commentator….

    Come on Holland, tear those Bad-aids off the many many wounds

  63. Jethro Tull says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – In my mind, over the next 12 months, I hope many of the following occur:

    FIFY

  64. Jethro Tull says:

    Ken Holland as Dutch from Predator:

    Come on, what are you waiting for?

  65. Pouzar says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Someone mentioned Russell for Perrault a couple weeks ago. A deal like that makes complete sense for both teams.

    You’d drive Russell to the Airport for Perrault.

  66. Bag of Pucks says:

    LT, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you again for creating a community where logic and civil discourse are the norm rather than the exception.

    Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss things like hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    It ‘s never fashionable it seems to lament the lot of young men in society, but it does seem some days traditional masculinity is under attack and we’re widening the gender gap rather than finding more common ground.

    I know there are many excellent female contributors to this daily dialogue and that’s awesome. It’s also equally awesome that we can all come here and enjoy this dialogue and debate in a civil and friendly fashion without the toxic and divisive rhetoric that seems to encapsulate so much of the social media bandwidth these days.

    You’ve truly created an egalitarian hotstove for the 21st century LT and it’s important that we celebrate and acknowledge those talented few that can bring us together rather than pull us apart. I’m sure your daughter is already Allan, but she should be very very proud of her old man. Ya done good.

  67. Jordan says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    LT, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you again for creating a community where logic and civil discourse are the norm rather than the exception.

    Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss thingslike hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    It ‘s never fashionable it seems to lament the lot of young men in society, but it does seem some days traditional masculinity is under attack and we’re widening the gender gap rather than finding more common ground.

    I know there are many excellent female contributors to this daily dialogue and that’s awesome. It’s also equally awesome that we can all come here and enjoy this dialogue and debate in a civil and friendly fashion without the toxic and divisive rhetoric that seems to encapsulate so much of the social media bandwidth these days.

    You’ve truly created an egalitarian hotstove for the 21st century LT and it’s important that we celebrate and acknowledge those talented few that can bring us together rather than pull us apart. I’m sure your daughter is already Allan, but she should be very very proud of her old man. Ya done good.

    +1

    As a young father of two young daughters, I continue to learn a great deal about being a better father, husband, leader and man within this forum.

    Oh, and hockey.and numbers and stuff.

    Thank you.

  68. Pescador says:

    Pouzar: You’d drive Russell to the Airport for Perrault.

    JimmyV1965:
    Someone mentioned Russell for Perrault a couple weeks ago. A deal like that makes complete sense for both teams.

    That was me, but I forget who I stole that from.
    Yes I would take Russell to the airport but I would ask him to split a cab.
    It’s not you, it’s me

  69. Pescador says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    LT, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you again for creating a community where logic and civil discourse are the norm rather than the exception.

    Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss thingslike hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    It ‘s never fashionable it seems to lament the lot of young men in society, but it does seem some days traditional masculinity is under attack and we’re widening the gender gap rather than finding more common ground.

    I know there are many excellent female contributors to this daily dialogue and that’s awesome. It’s also equally awesome that we can all come here and enjoy this dialogue and debate in a civil and friendly fashion without the toxic and divisive rhetoric that seems to encapsulate so much of the social media bandwidth these days.

    You’ve truly created an egalitarian hotstove for the 21st century LT and it’s important that we celebrate and acknowledge those talented few that can bring us together rather than pull us apart. I’m sure your daughter is already Allan, but she should be very very proud of her old man. Ya done good.

    Nicely done Bag, this is a excellent post

  70. Pescador says:

    Réal Goudenyéu:
    I’m curious what move would need to occur to show that Holland indeed has “full anatomy”…

    I would need the org to state it publicly prior to hiring Holland.
    WTF?
    Not you, whomever is questioning it

  71. Darth Tu says:

    Pescador:
    That was me, but I forget who I stole that from.
    Yes I would take Russell to the airport but I would ask him to split a cab.
    It’s not you, it’s me

    Do you let him sit on the right side in the front seats, or the left seat in the back whilst you drive him? Is he a better option as a passenger on the second row of seats on his off hand, or would you do better with Benning there?

  72. Jethro Tull says:

    Folks, at the moment, Holland is still in the Nylander Phase. Nothing signed, agreement in principle. I think this is a good sign!

  73. Ray says:

    I think Bernier is a legit bounce back option.

    Would Detroit swap him for Sekera?

  74. OilFire says:

    Bag of Pucks: Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss things like hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    No doubt, no doubt. The matriarchy is really keeping us boys under their thimble.

  75. Cowboy says:

    I very rarely comment on here but I read most days and love this place!

    I am having a hard time getting my head around the full venom being spit at Holland and I didn’t have a horse in the race- I did not do enough research to be informed good or bad.

    If we look at everything equal who did we want. We are in a position that the person making the calls has credibility in the Hockey community and to say that Holland is no good but Stevie Y is the best of the best seems strange as Holland literally groomed him. Do I love some of his signings, not a chance but as been said you pay to try to wing when you need to save things for next time (Think Oilers most of the last 13 years)

    I also do not get anyone bringing up how much anyone in Management is getting paid. It literally has 0 effect on a damn thing other than Katz bankroll. TBH If I am the GM of a professional team (and have earned my strips) I would think 5 million is a pretty fair price. Sure we could have hired someone younger and newer for less but that does not mean better return on Value (also does not mean it wouldn’t be.) If there was a cap on spending so be it but there is not- spend away.

    The fact Holland is leaving a place he has been 30+ years and had a multi million contract to go to someplace new for a different multi million dollar contract just makes me believe that he things he can add value here otherwise he would not have came.

    I am all for being innovative and hope that they start to do things differently ASAP because what they have been doing is not working but personally I have not been enamored with Dubas in Toronto either Matthews is going to be the 2nd highest paid player in the league and has never finished in the top 40 in points- their are people on this blog that say Leon was over paid at the time of signing and he was coming off finishing 8th in scoring (I know not a tremendously high bar that year) so I can’t say young and innovative GM is better at handling the cap than Holland, which seems to be the big complaint.

    I just really hope that he can make astute small moves this year and surround himself with good people and upgrade the off-ice dept. where cap does not count. I have been happy with the draft and most of our prospects have positive arrows (Jesse and KY got jerked around and that needs to stop) so focus on the pro side, make small but positive moves forward on lower risk bets this year as I believe our defense is good enough (and is going to improve. with the young guys pushing)

    This is way longer than I wanted but I see no reason to think the sly is falling other than some people would have been pissed with whoever was hired if it was not “their guy” that they gleamed from reading some stuff. There was never going to be a hire that made everyone happy. But the amount of Chicken Little going on with no action to back it up is really depressing. We have 2 of the best players in the world, an AHL team with a very strong defense that is only going to get stronger (barring Trade) some good young Forwards that need to not get the Jesse treatment, and a new GM that if nothing else has the ear of every GM and agent in the League that is known for grooming GM’s in waiting.

  76. Pescador says:

    Darth Tu: Do you let him sit on the right side in the front seats, or the left seat in the back whilst you drive him? Is he a better option as a passenger on the second row of seats on his off hand, or would you do better with Benning there?

    I definitely sit in the front
    probably close the divider, so I can work on the pick up sign. Ask him if he knows how to spell Perreault?
    then as we approach the terminal tell him I forgot my wallet

  77. Cowboy says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    +1000

    Thank you LT

  78. Professor Q says:

    I don’t know about the Babcock speculation, as he is still with the Leafs until he isn’t (it is nice to fantasize about the Detroit and Team Canada successes), but Knoblauch being fired today does open up intriguing possibilities.

  79. godot10 says:

    Professor Q:
    I don’t know about the Babcock speculation, as he is still with the Leafs until he isn’t (it is nice to fantasize about the Detroit and Team Canada successes), but Knoblauch being fired today does open up intriguing possibilities.

    Knoblauch needs to go a be a head coach in the AHL for a couple of years.

  80. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Maybe the organization’s lack of diversity, and no talent had any role in 1 playoffs in 12 years: This is truly a gong-show: How can so many bad people have tenure? Godspeed Holland:

    – Vice President, Player Personnel: enters his ninth season

    – Director, Salary Cap Management & Assistant : enters his fifth season

    – Senior Vice President, Hockey Operations: enters his fourth season, previously served as Edmonton’s Senior Vice- President of Hockey Operations in 2012-13.Named coach on June 22, 2000

    – Vice President, Player Development: has been with the Oilers organization for 18 seasons in total

    – Director, Player Personnel: enters his sixth season

    – Head Coach: 66, Native of Edmonton (fired) ,

    – Goaltending Coach: Enters his 5th year

    – co-goaltender coach: enters his sixth season (hmmm… have we had good goalies last 6 years?)

    – Skating Coach: begins his fifth season

    – Assistant GM – his third season with the Oilers

    – Vice Chair: fourth season, Previously, President of Hockey Operations for seven seasons and prior eight seasons as the Oilers General Manager.

    – Vice Chair: enters his forth season, in all aspects of the organization, including hockey operations., works closely with other vice-chair

    – Chief Executive Officer: His first job in NHL began as CEO 3 years ago

  81. Cowboy says:

    Sticking with my not do much plan for this year I have been thinking, and I hate Armchair GMing but sometimes I fall into the trap but I do agree with the list from LT pretty closely.

    Drai McDavid Kassian
    xxxx RNH Pool
    Benson xxxx Gagner
    Lucic Cave JJ
    Gambardella Brodziak

    Klefbomb Larsson
    Nurse xxxx
    Sekera Benning/Jones

    Kosti
    XXXX

    I do not know who I bring in as the xxxx but to me the least important is the RD as I do think it can be cobbled together.
    I like the idea of a Russell for JAke Allen type move and the 2 forwards need to be plus bets (I think Chasson and Toby were good bets that hit 50/50 just needed 2 more of them. lol
    I think you bet on Pool breaking out and staple him to the 2nd line and find a left winger that can play the other side to compliment his deficiencies

  82. Jethro Tull says:

    Cowboy,

    The pay thing is about us having to outbid people to come here. The verbals were that Holland wasn’t in the mix until it transpired he was offered big bucks. It follows that the only reason he accepted was for more money – nothing to do with “something to add.”

    Different things motivate different people, and once again the Oilers are being the smartest guys in the room by not emulating the Leafs, Lightning and Coyotes, but by emulating the Red Wings of 15yrs ago when they had an already stella team.

    Sure, I’ll root for Holland. I certainly don’t wish failure upon him. But if you’re not looking which way he’s been trending for the last few years, then bet your house on Lucic with a 60pt season next year.

    It’s a hire Bob THINKS the fans want. What he THINKS the team needs. A lot of the old school guys are finding it very hard to adjust to the new cap era. But these aren’t the kind of guys that are overly introspective. They won’t hire a cap guru. They won’t employ an analytics team, unless it matches what they think they already know. They’ll ask a guy that’s been in the league 20yrs, because he “knows hockey.”

    So the skepticism and poison isn’t aimed at Holland, per se, but at the process that was fucked before it could even get going.

  83. Oil2Oilers says:

    I am filled with doom for the upcoming Ken Holland as GM news conference.

    Not because of any specific angst about the Holland hiring, but because of the all to predictable poor performance of the Press Corps.

    Sycophanic articles have already started as they angle for the coveted moniker of inside man. The questions they ask will be along this line, only deviating to get the hot gossip of management power struggles, OBC departures and perceived power and autonomy.

    Questions that will go unasked will be the important ones;

    1. What steps will the Oilers take under your leadership to move toward evidence based decision making, utilizing statistical analysis, sports science, modern tracking and professional scouting systems?

    -expect some snide comments about fancy stats by the press setting up canned responses about the supremacy of the eye test by hockey men.

    2. Player developmental has been a challenge for the Oilers, how will you improve this situation? What off ice supports will be offered to these young men, especially the ones from overseas, so they are better able to focus on developing as players?

    -expect overripening overripening overripening

    I have a couple more questions that I would like the answers too, but the ones above are top of the list and I am confident won’t get asked.

    The press Hall of Famers in the room have no intellectual curiosity and will only be looking for angles to swap old war stories. The young buck press will be sycophanic as ever hoping to get those career making inside scoops. Most disappointing will be the new online media of Oilers Nation and the Athletic. Greggor will likely rep ON but he dare not ask hard or penetrating questions less he looses access to interviews for his radio show. Meanwhile DNB will probably not even have the courage to ask a question, waiting his chance to do a long form sycophantic master class later in the fall, ala the crap he recently shoveled about Chiarelli.

  84. Nit64 says:

    ~ Any analytic data out there on quality of press corp questions and team performance? ~

  85. Rebillled says:

    Professor Q,

    I think this Babcock speculation is Toronto Sports Network propaganda because the 2019 Stanley Cup Champions didn’t get out of the first round.

    Again.

  86. OriginalPouzar says:

    flea:
    Why does it take the Oilers so long to annouce or do anything? This has been leaked. Now reports are saying the contract has to be signed still.

    They are the only org that seems to do things in the most painful, drawn out way possible. Just like this whole GM search.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/longtime-red-wings-executive-ken-holland-expected-join-oilers/

    Not inspiring much confidence. Just announce the damn GM. And stop leaking it to the media if you aren’t ready to.

    Holland is under contract with the Detroit organization – he can’t just sign with another organization. Of course, DET will allow it but there are arrangements to be made.

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10:
    Matt Niskanen has two years left at $5.75 million, and the Capitals need some cap space.They just signed Jensen, perhaps as a 2nd pairing right D.

    A stop-gap D target, if the Oilers can create cap space.

    Benning is a cheap legit 3rd pairing D.

    Benning plus something for Niskanen..

    Just throwing stuff up against the wall.

    Toronto is probably a better fit with Washington for a Niskanen trade.

    That’s a perfect term but that cap hit is a bit rich even with a clean disposition of Russell.

    I’m not against it, necessarily.

    Is Niskanen a legit top 4 RD? I think so.

    Is he value for that cap hit? Honest question as I don’t know.

  88. OriginalPouzar says:

    YKOil:
    Given the team’s now involved. Green could also be the summer RHD pick-up.

    Durability would be a major question mark and, also, given the years of injuries, how reduced is his effectiveness.

    Is he still a stretch to play second pairing minutes at evens? Is he still a plus PP guy?

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull:
    We’re telling Connor that his wingers are potentially 2-5yrs away, IF we pick and develop right at THIS year’s draft?

    OK then.Hopefully he’s happy with being the best player in the league on one of the worst teams.

    Ryan Rishaug

    Verified account

    @TSNRyanRishaug
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    Am told McDavid feels very positive about the Ken Holland hiring. He has a lot or respect for his experience and acumen.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Two bonafide top 6-9 wingers are needed before bringing in another d-man with the likes of Jones, Lagesson etal in the minors. The team needs scoring depth now.

    This team also needs a d-man to play in the top 4 on the right side and the graduating prospects cannot be looked to for that for at least a year.

  91. Todd Macallan says:

    Babcock staying in TO next season via Bobby Mac quoting Dubas on Twitter.

    Phew. Count me in for a Nelson hc and Knoblauch ac combo, + Manny.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    jeetz:
    Predictions:

    The big player moves I see are Puljujarvi to Winnipeg for Trouba, and Yamamoto to Toronto for one of Johnsson, or Kapanen as main pieces

    Puljujarvi plus what? Bouchard? 8th overall?

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    v4ance:
    Philadelphia Flyers @NHLFlyers

    OFFICIAL: The #Flyers have hired Michel Therrien and Mike Yeo to serve as assistant coaches on head coach Alain Vigneault’s staff.

    My hope is they (re-)hire Todd Nelson as Head coach and give Viveros a true shot at running the PP.We’re already at the bottom 1/3 of the league.Why not try something new?

    The PP was 9th in the NHL last year…..

  94. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar: Ryan Rishaug

    Verified account

    @TSNRyanRishaug3h3 hours ago
    More
    Am told McDavid feels very positive about the Ken Holland hiring.He has a lot or respect for his experience and acumen.

    If you’re looking for a hot take from Connor, you’re mistaken. He is very polite. What do you want him to say? I also have a lot of respect for Holland. I can’t feel positively about his hiring though, as is my right.

    Realizing that things can be good and bad at the same time is a good thing. So is acknowledging and validating your negative feelings.

    You saw and heard Connor at the end of the year. A little pissy, wasn’t he. And rightly so. He’s VERY competitive. The Oilers and Ken need to realize how much. A chunk of your life in your prime is a big ask for anyone. Ken’s won his cups……

  95. YKOil says:

    OriginalPouzar: That’s a perfect term but that cap hit is a bit rich even with a clean disposition of Russell.

    I’m not against it, necessarily. Is Niskanen a legit top 4 RD?I think so.

    Is he value for that cap hit?Honest question as I don’t know.

    Vic is in Washington so I expect they will make the right move. Less sure about us.

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Cowboy:
    Sticking with my not do much plan for this year I have been thinking, and I hate Armchair GMing but sometimes I fall into the trap but I do agree with the list from LT pretty closely.

    Drai McDavid Kassian
    xxxxRNHPool
    Benson xxxxGagner
    Lucic CaveJJ
    GambardellaBrodziak

    Klefbomb Larsson
    Nurse xxxx
    Sekera Benning/Jones

    Kosti
    XXXX

    I do not know who I bring in as the xxxx but to me the least important is the RD as I do think it can be cobbled together.
    I like the idea of a Russell for JAke Allen type move and the 2 forwards need to be plus bets (I think Chasson and Toby were good bets that hit 50/50 just needed 2 more of them. lol
    I think you bet on Pool breaking out and staple him to the 2nd line and find a left winger that can play the other side to compliment his deficiencies

    I would posit that disposing of Lucic does not clasify as “not do much” – its tough to analyze the plan you propose without knowing how much pain is being taken in order to remove that contract.

    Similar premise with Russell – a potential clean disposition, to me, is a material move.

    I definitely bet on Puljujarvi being an every day part of the top 9 – I’m not sure where in there but, give the man consistent linemates and consistent minutes through not less than a 2/5 of the season and I believe we will see a material increase in his play (assuming one of those linemates is Nuge, McDavid or Drai).

  97. Cowboy says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Cowboy,

    The pay thing is about us having to outbid people to come here.The verbals were that Holland wasn’t in the mix until it transpired he was offered big bucks.It follows that the only reason he accepted was for more money – nothing to do with “something to add.”

    Different things motivate different people, and once again the Oilers are being the smartest guys in the room by not emulating the Leafs, Lightning and Coyotes, but by emulating the Red Wings of 15yrs ago when they had an already stella team.

    Sure, I’ll root for Holland. I certainly don’t wish failure upon him.But if you’re not looking which way he’s been trending for the last few years, then bet your house on Lucic with a 60pt season next year.

    It’s a hire Bob THINKS the fans want.What he THINKS the team needs.A lot of the old school guys are finding it very hard to adjust to the new cap era.But these aren’t the kind of guys that are overly introspective.They won’t hire a cap guru.They won’t employ an analytics team, unless it matches what they think they already know.They’ll ask a guy that’s been in the league 20yrs, because he “knows hockey.”

    So the skepticism and poison isn’t aimed at Holland, per se, but at the process that was fucked before it could even get going.

    Jethro i completely agree with the process being fucked but for me the reason it was fucked was because media speculation that was likely fed by someone, that is a issue. If I am making the most important hire potential in the last 30 years of my company I talk to likely north of 50 people and I take a long damn time unless i am on a clock and realistically the clock started at bc the end of round 1 not when chia was fired.
    You talk about older guys having trouble with the cap then mention Tampa (who holland trained) at the cap and Toronto who as of now have 5 million to sign marner, kapanen, johnsson, and someone on D. These cannot be your argument that older gms do not understand the cap.

    As for needing to offer big cash to get him to the table. Think of it this way, you have been at the same company for 30+ years and have a fantastic gig still there but with less responsibilities. How much more would you need to be offered to consider it? I would also addit was speculated the average salery for GM was 1.5-2 “several years ago” in articles last year when the canes were lowballing people. You must admit the average myst have gone up so let’s say 2.5 million you would be crazy to think KH would go anywhere for much less.

    All this makes it sound like i am defending this all but in reality I think it was horse crap that anything got out at all other than speculation and history and league averages say Holland is being paid fair and seems to understand ther cap as well as Toronto except he had the issue of trying to maintain a playoff run where toronto is trying to get past the first round with only 2 defenseman. So i have no way at all and neither do you to say he cant figure it out.

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    On Green and him being a potential one-year stop gap:

    He battled a virus all of last year but Helene St. James, who writes for the Wings and is legit, told Gregor they expect him healthy next year. In his 43 games, he did put up 26 points and I don’t think he was healthy when he did play. The guy can still put up offence but can he play top 4 minutes at 5 on 5? He’s at apx $5.3M but only for a one year term – term is great for the stop gap.

    I’m not sure he’s the “right guy” but there are limited options for that 2RD stop-gap.

    I’d need to do more digging and research in to him and his health and play over the last few years prior to forming a real opinion. Acquisition cost may be cheap as it could be viewed as a full cap dump for the Wings – of course, this organization isn’t in the market to take on cap dumps without dumping cap itself.

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dubas has confirmed that Babcock will return as Leaf head coach next season – no surprise at all – this was never really in doubt at all in my opinion.

  100. Oilman99 says:

    Woogie63: Who is mediocre RNH? Oilers?

    Oilers of course, RNH has already expressed his frustrations during the exit interviews.

  101. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: Puljujarvi plus what? Bouchard? 8th overall?

    Both players are RFA so it would depend what Trouba wants. Reports are he wants to play in the USA.
    He will also want a raise from his current 5.5. If his ask is too high the jets will move him but what they will be able to ask for will diminish. The real question is what is Trouba worth.

  102. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: This team also needs a d-man to play in the top 4 on the right side and the graduating prospects cannot be looked to for that for at least a year.

    The consensus has Jones NHL ready, it’s unfortunate they sent him back to the Condors rather than give him the extra time in the bigs to the end of the season. They cannot go into another season without any proven secondary scoring. If they can free up some cap space, then the r-dman situation could be addressed.

  103. v4ance says:

    OriginalPouzar: The PP was 9th in the NHL last year…..

    Sorry, my reference was to finishing in bottom 1/3 of the league in standings, not PP efficiency.

    I feel there is improvements that can be made in so many other areas. I just used PP coaching as one decision that could have improved. Even finishing 9th, there were times that the PP units were very static and easily defended. The tactic of “pass it back to defence back to half wall back to defence back to half wall looking for a gap” on the PP was unoriginal.

    There was one PP this playoff where a point man left the zone and then took a dash back down the middle of the box trying to induce a give and go “rush” style chance. At that speed, the attacker was nearly indefensible as stick checks were useless and the defenders were flat footed. That’s an innovative tactic that should be used with McDavid or Draisaitl.

  104. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Cowboy,

    The pay thing is about us having to outbid people to come here.The verbals were that Holland wasn’t in the mix until it transpired he was offered big bucks.It follows that the only reason he accepted was for more money – nothing to do with “something to add.”

    Different things motivate different people, and once again the Oilers are being the smartest guys in the room by not emulating the Leafs, Lightning and Coyotes, but by emulating the Red Wings of 15yrs ago when they had an already stella team.

    Sure, I’ll root for Holland. I certainly don’t wish failure upon him.But if you’re not looking which way he’s been trending for the last few years, then bet your house on Lucic with a 60pt season next year.

    It’s a hire Bob THINKS the fans want.What he THINKS the team needs.A lot of the old school guys are finding it very hard to adjust to the new cap era.But these aren’t the kind of guys that are overly introspective.They won’t hire a cap guru.They won’t employ an analytics team, unless it matches what they think they already know.They’ll ask a guy that’s been in the league 20yrs, because he “knows hockey.”

    So the skepticism and poison isn’t aimed at Holland, per se, but at the process that was fucked before it could even get going.

    What has the current GM of the Leafs done since being hired in to that position that the Oilers would like to emulate?

    His most recent important moves, signing of important RFAs, have been awful – in particular Matthews who’s contract is just abysmal – he get 8 year term money on a 5 year term contract that eats zero UFA years and takes Matthews to UFA status – just awful.

    He also spent significant assets to acquire a top 4LD when the team required a top 4RD – not much different than acquiring Reinhart. No, that trade isn’t nearly as egregious but he used his bullets to acquire at the wrong position.

    Maybe its the Leafs organization that should be labelled guilty as trying to be the “smartest people in the room” but trying a young “new age” general manager who, as of now, has shown to be worse than Chiarelli with respect to re-singing important players coming off their ELCs .

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull: If you’re looking for a hot take from Connor, you’re mistaken.He is very polite.What do you want him to say?I also have a lot of respect for Holland.I can’t feel positively about his hiring though, as is my right.

    Realizing that things can be good and bad at the same time is a good thing.So is acknowledging and validating your negative feelings.

    You saw and heard Connor at the end of the year.A little pissy, wasn’t he.And rightly so.He’s VERY competitive.The Oilers and Ken need to realize how much.A chunk of your life in your prime is a big ask for anyone.Ken’s won his cups……

    So, believe the quote when it fits the narrative.

    Don’t believe the quote when it doesn’t fit the narrative.

    Yup, he sure was pissy – which shows that he won’t just give the scripted response any more each and every time – he will speak his mind.

  106. Beat It Square says:

    Suggestion for Mr. Holland’s new nickname:

    Old Dutch. (meant with affection)

    I’ll show myself out.

  107. Ben says:

    OriginalPouzar: What has the current GM of the Leafs done since being hired in to that position that the Oilers would like to emulate?

    His most recent important moves, signing of important RFAs, have been awful – in particular Matthews who’s contract is just abysmal – he get8 year term money on a 5 year term contract that eats zero UFA years and takes Matthews to UFA status – just awful.

    He also spent significant assets to acquire a top 4LD when the team required a top 4RD – not much different than acquiring Reinhart.No, that trade isn’t nearly as egregious but he used his bullets to acquire at the wrong position.

    Maybe its the Leafs organization that should be labelled guilty as trying to be the “smartest people in the room” but trying a young “new age” general manager who, as of now, has shown to be worse than Chiarelli with respect to re-singing important players coming off their ELCs .

    Kind of a hot take, but a compelling one.

    I would defend the Muzzin acquisition. He may be off-side, but still a valuable asset acquired at a decent price.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: The consensus has Jones NHL ready, it’s unfortunate they sent him back to the Condors rather than give him the extra time in the bigs to the end of the season. They cannot go into another season without any proven secondary scoring. If they can free up some cap space, then the r-dman situation could be addressed.

    Yes, he is likely NHL ready but that doesn’t help the 2RD spot – we have a plethora of potential options for the 3rd pairing and, aside from perhaps Sekera, no options for that 2nd pairing.

    You aren’t suggesting that Jones should be penciled in as the opening night 2RD, are you? Recall his game went down hill very fast when he was moved off the sheltered 3rd pairing during his NHL time last year.

    I would posit that its just as reasonable, in fact, more reasonable, to suggest the Tyler Benson is ready for the NHL top 6 than Jones is ready for the NHL top 4 (on the premise that, generally, young forwards are able to play well up the lineup earlier than d-men).

    We have holes both in the top 6 and top 2 pairings – we may prioritize differently on what needs to be filled in the short term.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ben: Kind of a hot take, but a compelling one.

    I would defend the Muzzin acquisition. He may be off-side, but still a valuable asset acquired at a decent price.

    I don’t disagree on the Muzzin acquisition but, at the same time, they fired their bullets to acquire at a position of not great need and left their major holes.

  110. BONE207 says:

    Réal Goudenyéu:
    I’m curious what move would need to occur to show that Holland indeed has “full anatomy”…

    If he makes similar trades as the last guy, we’ll know his anatomy is indeed, just as incomplete

  111. Glovjuice says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    LT, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you again for creating a community where logic and civil discourse are the norm rather than the exception.

    Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss thingslike hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    It ‘s never fashionable it seems to lament the lot of young men in society, but it does seem some days traditional masculinity is under attack and we’re widening the gender gap rather than finding more common ground.

    I know there are many excellent female contributors to this daily dialogue and that’s awesome. It’s also equally awesome that we can all come here and enjoy this dialogue and debate in a civil and friendly fashion without the toxic and divisive rhetoric that seems to encapsulate so much of the social media bandwidth these days.

    You’ve truly created an egalitarian hotstove for the 21st century LT and it’s important that we celebrate and acknowledge those talented few that can bring us together rather than pull us apart. I’m sure your daughter is already Allan, but she should be very very proud of her old man. Ya done good.

    Glovjuice poll. T minus how many years till a women is an NHL GM. I say 6.

  112. Georgexs says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    LT, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you again for creating a community where logic and civil discourse are the norm rather than the exception.

    Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss thingslike hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    It ‘s never fashionable it seems to lament the lot of young men in society, but it does seem some days traditional masculinity is under attack and we’re widening the gender gap rather than finding more common ground.

    I know there are many excellent female contributors to this daily dialogue and that’s awesome. It’s also equally awesome that we can all come here and enjoy this dialogue and debate in a civil and friendly fashion without the toxic and divisive rhetoric that seems to encapsulate so much of the social media bandwidth these days.

    You’ve truly created an egalitarian hotstove for the 21st century LT and it’s important that we celebrate and acknowledge those talented few that can bring us together rather than pull us apart. I’m sure your daughter is already Allan, but she should be very very proud of her old man. Ya done good.

    Damn straight. Because hockey is a man’s sport and grilling steak is a man’s sport and balancing investment portfolios is a man’s sport.

    Forget young men, what we old men need is a safe refuge to talk about other men’s wives, boobs, Burgers covering his ass like Mike Tyson, and those entitled millennial snowflakes. And, oh yeah, to punch each other’s ribs. Stupid social justice innuendo. Traditional masculinity forever.

    You opened in one direction and continued in the opposite, setting new standards for logic and civil discourse along the way. But, really though, you’re more norm than exception on here. So the stage is yours.

  113. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    1 and 2 RHD are quite pricey in the current market.
    Quite a few teams are in need to fill these holes.

  114. Glovjuice says:

    Cowboy:
    I very rarely comment on here but I read most days and love this place!

    I am having a hard time getting my head around the full venom being spit at Holland and I didn’t have a horse in the race- I did not do enough research to be informed good or bad.

    If we look at everything equal who did we want. We are in a position that the person making the calls has credibility in the Hockey community and to say that Holland is no good but Stevie Y is the best of the best seems strange as Holland literally groomed him. Do I love some of his signings, not a chance but as been said you pay to try to wing when you need to save things for next time (Think Oilers most of the last 13 years)

    I also do not get anyone bringing up how much anyone in Management is getting paid. It literally has 0 effect on a damn thing other than Katz bankroll. TBH If I am the GM of a professional team (and have earned my strips) I would think 5 million is a pretty fair price. Sure we could have hired someone younger and newer for less but that does not mean better return on Value (also does not mean it wouldn’t be.) If there was a cap on spending so be it but there is not- spend away.

    The fact Holland is leaving a place he has been 30+ years and had a multi million contract to go to someplace new for a different multi million dollar contract just makes me believe that he things he can add value here otherwise he would not have came.

    I am all for being innovative and hope that they start to do things differently ASAP because what they have been doing is not working but personally I have not been enamored with Dubas in Toronto either Matthews is going to be the 2nd highest paid player in the league and has never finished in the top 40 in points- their are people on this blog that say Leon was over paid at the time of signing and he was coming off finishing 8th in scoring (I know not a tremendously high bar that year) so I can’t say young and innovative GM is better at handling the cap than Holland, which seems to be the big complaint.

    I just really hope that he can make astute small moves this year and surround himself with good people and upgrade the off-ice dept. where cap does not count. I have been happy with the draft and most of our prospects have positive arrows (Jesse and KY got jerked around and that needs to stop) so focus on the pro side, make small but positive moves forward on lower risk bets this year as I believe our defense is good enough (and is going to improve. with the young guys pushing)

    This is way longer than I wanted but I see no reason to think the sly is falling other than some people would have been pissed with whoever was hired if it was not “their guy” that they gleamed from reading some stuff. There was never going to be a hire that made everyone happy. But the amount of Chicken Little going on with no action to back it up is really depressing. We have 2 of the best players in the world, an AHL team with a very strong defense that is only going to get stronger (barring Trade) some good young Forwards that need to not get the Jesse treatment, and a new GM that if nothing else has the ear of every GM and agent in the League that is known for grooming GM’s in waiting.

    Stupendous folky post.

  115. gimme shelter says:

    Hot of the Press’s : Detroit demanding compensation for the signing of Holland. BOB offers McDavid.

  116. Oilpower says:

    Glovjuice,

    10 change is slow.

  117. Munny says:

    Beat It Square: Suggestion for Mr. Holland’s new nickname:
    Old Dutch.

    Not…

    New Holland?

    😉

  118. Munny says:

    Cowboy,

    Thank you for sharing your opinion!

  119. Beat It Square says:

    Munny,

    Even better!

  120. Munny says:

    Gerta Rauss: Depends on the price

    My bigger concern is apparently he had (another) hip surgery recently and recovery time is 5-6 months

    Well there are certain assets that I would certainly divest for Bogo, but it’s doubtful Buffalo would want’em. Bastards.

    Niskanen I doubt would waive, although there’s no harm in asking. But I think the price would also be too dear.

    I prefer the Green idea.

    Green would come AND Detroit would trade him I think AND he brings something we don’t have (offense from the right point).

  121. Munny says:

    Beat It Square,

    I dunno man, I like yours too.

  122. Professor Q says:

    Glovjuice: Glovjuice poll. T minus how many years till a women is an NHL GM.I say 6.

    I think Wickenheiser is on her way, among a few others. Might get there quicker than 6 years.

  123. Professor Q says:

    If Holland brings Horcoff et al. with him, would Shawn count as an Old Boy?

  124. Lowetide says:

    Cowboy:
    I very rarely comment on here but I read most days and love this place!

    I am having a hard time getting my head around the full venom being spit at Holland and I didn’t have a horse in the race- I did not do enough research to be informed good or bad.

    If we look at everything equal who did we want. We are in a position that the person making the calls has credibility in the Hockey community and to say that Holland is no good but Stevie Y is the best of the best seems strange as Holland literally groomed him. Do I love some of his signings, not a chance but as been said you pay to try to wing when you need to save things for next time (Think Oilers most of the last 13 years)

    I also do not get anyone bringing up how much anyone in Management is getting paid. It literally has 0 effect on a damn thing other than Katz bankroll. TBH If I am the GM of a professional team (and have earned my strips) I would think 5 million is a pretty fair price. Sure we could have hired someone younger and newer for less but that does not mean better return on Value (also does not mean it wouldn’t be.) If there was a cap on spending so be it but there is not- spend away.

    The fact Holland is leaving a place he has been 30+ years and had a multi million contract to go to someplace new for a different multi million dollar contract just makes me believe that he things he can add value here otherwise he would not have came.

    I am all for being innovative and hope that they start to do things differently ASAP because what they have been doing is not working but personally I have not been enamored with Dubas in Toronto either Matthews is going to be the 2nd highest paid player in the league and has never finished in the top 40 in points- their are people on this blog that say Leon was over paid at the time of signing and he was coming off finishing 8th in scoring (I know not a tremendously high bar that year) so I can’t say young and innovative GM is better at handling the cap than Holland, which seems to be the big complaint.

    I just really hope that he can make astute small moves this year and surround himself with good people and upgrade the off-ice dept. where cap does not count. I have been happy with the draft and most of our prospects have positive arrows (Jesse and KY got jerked around and that needs to stop) so focus on the pro side, make small but positive moves forward on lower risk bets this year as I believe our defense is good enough (and is going to improve. with the young guys pushing)

    This is way longer than I wanted but I see no reason to think the sly is falling other than some people would have been pissed with whoever was hired if it was not “their guy” that they gleamed from reading some stuff. There was never going to be a hire that made everyone happy. But the amount of Chicken Little going on with no action to back it up is really depressing. We have 2 of the best players in the world, an AHL team with a very strong defense that is only going to get stronger (barring Trade) some good young Forwards that need to not get the Jesse treatment, and a new GM that if nothing else has the ear of every GM and agent in the League that is known for grooming GM’s in waiting.

    Great post. You should do it more. 🙂 I have been working ALL day and just now had a chance to read the thread. Awesome. People always thank me for creating the site, and I say (although not often enough) the community pays me back with thoughtful content and hilarity.

    So, thanks. I’ve giggled the last 25 minutes over comments above. It’s appreciated.

  125. Bag of Pucks says:

    Georgexs: Damn straight. Because hockey is a man’s sport and grilling steak is a man’s sport and balancing investment portfolios is a man’s sport.

    Forget young men, what we old men need is a safe refuge to talk about other men’s wives, boobs, Burgers covering his ass like Mike Tyson, and those entitled millennial snowflakes. And, oh yeah, to punch each other’s ribs. Stupid social justice innuendo. Traditional masculinity forever.

    You opened in one direction and continued in the opposite, setting new standards for logic and civil discourse along the way. But, really though, you’re more norm than exception on here. So the stage is yours.

    My post was not meant to insinuate those things are exclusively men’s ‘sports’ but rather this is a safe place to discuss areas of interest wherever the conversation may lead.

    More importantly, I wanted to show LT my overdue gratitude for creating such a space space as my experience is these things are becoming increasingly more rare on the Internet.

    It’s fairly apparent you don’t like some of my previous posts so you decided it best to crap all over that sentiment. Whatever makes you happy….

  126. pts2pndr says:

    Glovjuice: Glovjuice poll. T minus how many years till a women is an NHL GM.I say 6.

    Hockey management seems to be like a card game. After the season the deck of the same people is reshuffled and passed around. There are capable women who could do well but just aren’t part of the deck so to speak. I believe there will come a time but with the ultra conservative old school thinking on many things hockey it may not happen anytime soon.

  127. Professor Q says:

    Just listening to the Lowdown now during my post-work walk home.

    I like Tyler’s suggestion that Holland hiring Todd Nelson is a scenario with a lot of potential of happening. I like it a lot.

  128. v4ance says:

    https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/rishaug-holland-s-body-of-work-tipped-the-scales-for-him-1.1301529

    At 2:35 of interview paraphrasing Rishaug:

    “… He’ll (Holland) have complete autonomy. I don’t think he takes the job without it. Why would he? It wouldn’t make sense to come into Edmonton without complete autonomy.

    ..Chiarelli had autonomy as well. There’s a misconception out there that he didn’t. Peter did whatever Peter wanted to do. No question about it. There was nobody handcuffing Peter Chiarelli. Some might argue he had too much autonomy. That towards the end there he went blasting off on trades where somebody maybe should have stepped in and said whoa whoa whoa there….

  129. JimmyV1965 says:

    v4ance: How many good opportunities or goals did the second unit create this year?The amount of talent on the first unit almost guarantees they’ll be a good PP.The effectiveness of the second unit is entirely within the coach’s realm of control.

    You can’t possibly be serious. PP2 hardly saw the light of day because it was filled with garbage at forward.

  130. Nix says:

    Todd Macallan:
    Babcock staying in TO next season via Bobby Mac quoting Dubas on Twitter.

    Phew. Count me in for a Nelson hc and Knoblauch ac combo, + Manny.

    Count me in as well for Nelson/Knaublauch/Vivieros (Yawney?). Perhaps Burke to overhaul pro scouting and we are cooking with sterno.

  131. OriginalPouzar says:

    Huge win 7-2 win for Guelph to make a series out of it. No points for Samorukov but plus 2 and five shots on net.

  132. Professor Q says:

    Just saw the McAvoy hit.

    I know many here like him and the Bruins, but it was dirty and a targeted hard-hit (and very Tom Wilson-esque in being a blindside hit on a player already being hit by a different teammate). He and DeBrusk already have histories of such play.

    Very odd to just get a 2 minute there, and hopefully he’s suspended.

  133. Munny says:

    Professor Q: Very odd to just get a 2 minute there, and hopefully he’s suspended.

    They were saying during the intermission that the error on the Pavelski hit probably contributed to only a minor being called. Also, there’s no 5 minute major, it’s either 2 or a game.

    Thus–and this may be a directive from the League–if the refs aren’t sure, they’re better off making what call they can and letting Player Safety deal with it more completely.

    All the panelists, even Kypper, were pretty certain a suspension is forthcoming.

    Edit: (Probably what Doughty got for nearly identical hit last playoffs)

  134. Caller Zen says:

    I’m trying to read the tea leaves from the lyrics of one of my favourite REM songs, but it’s, ugh, open to interpretation…

    “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?” is your Benzedrine, uh-huh
    I was brain-dead, locked out, numb, not up to speed
    I thought I’d pegged you an idiot’s dream
    Tunnel vision from the outsider’s screen
    I never understood the frequency, uh-huh
    You wore our expectations like an armored suit, uh-huh

    I’d studied your cartoons, radio, music, TV, movies, magazines
    Richard said, “Withdrawal in disgust is not the same as apathy”
    A smile like the cartoon, tooth for a tooth
    You said that irony was the shackles of youth
    You wore a shirt of violent green, uh-huh
    I never understood the frequency, uh-huh

    “What’s the frequency, Kenneth?” is your Benzedrine, uh-huh
    Butterfly decal, rear-view mirror, dogging the scene
    You smile like the cartoon, tooth for a tooth
    You said that irony was the shackles of youth
    You wore a shirt of violent green, uh-huh
    I never understood the frequency, uh-huh

    You wore our expectations like an armored suit, uh-huh
    I couldn’t understand
    You said that irony was the shackles of youth, uh-huh
    I couldn’t understand
    You wore a shirt of violent green, uh-huh
    I couldn’t understand
    I never understood, don’t fuck with me, uh-huh

  135. Munny says:

    Swedish Poster…

    (if you’re around)

    Could you give us a comparison of Broberg and Soderstrom?

    Apologies if you’ve already gone there.

  136. Professor Q says:

    Henrik Lundqvist is talking about leaving New York (he wants to stay, but it seems like he understands that the Rangers might want to reset and get some assets before he’s done).

    I think an experienced and gently-used Lucic could be the perfect trade target there. He’s a Cup Winner!

    Lundqvist and Datsyuk. That would be quite the Summer start.

  137. Munny says:

    Caller Zen,

    Doesn’t it refer to the attack on Dan Rather?

  138. LMHF#1 says:

    v4ance,

    The last few days especially have clearly shown these guys all blow smoke and even those with supposed access can’t give the real story – right? We all get that now…right?

  139. v4ance says:

    JimmyV1965: You can’t possibly be serious. PP2 hardly saw the light of day because it was filled with garbage at forward.

    So the coaches just throw up their hands and declare a lost cause for the remainder of the PP with the second unit on the ice?

    This kind of narrow minded thinking is what we should be trying to overcome. Increasing the effectiveness of the second unit can be an incremental improvement. Get a slightly better 2nd pair D, that helps too. Improve the breakouts and zone entries… another positive. Small improvements on the roster and the systems are the difference between making the playoffs and participating in the lottery every year.

  140. Bling says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    LT, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you again for creating a community where logic and civil discourse are the norm rather than the exception.

    Aa a father of two young men in their early 20s, I think we are at a time in our history when young men need a safe refuge to discuss thingslike hockey, how to grill a steak, or balance their investment portfolio etc. without feeling like they are under the constant microscope of gender politics and social justice innuendo.

    It ‘s never fashionable it seems to lament the lot of young men in society, but it does seem some days traditional masculinity is under attack and we’re widening the gender gap rather than finding more common ground.

    I know there are many excellent female contributors to this daily dialogue and that’s awesome. It’s also equally awesome that we can all come here and enjoy this dialogue and debate in a civil and friendly fashion without the toxic and divisive rhetoric that seems to encapsulate so much of the social media bandwidth these days.

    You’ve truly created an egalitarian hotstove for the 21st century LT and it’s important that we celebrate and acknowledge those talented few that can bring us together rather than pull us apart. I’m sure your daughter is already Allan, but she should be very very proud of her old man. Ya done good.

    I like this post and agree with much of it — in particular the bit about LT creating an amazing community — but I don’t at all understand this idea that traditional masculinity is under attack.

    You hear that a lot these days, and as a 30 something male, I have no clue what it means.

    I don’t feel like I’m under attack at all. Quite the opposite; I feel like this is the single best and most interesting time to be alive.

  141. Ben says:

    Bling: I like this post and agree with much of it — in particular the bit about LT creating an amazing community — but I don’t at all understand this idea that traditional masculinity is under attack.

    You hear that a lot these days, and as a 30 something male, I have no clue what it means.

    I don’t feel like I’m under attack at all. Quite the opposite; I feel like this is the single best and most interesting time to be alive.

    +1

    One of the things I love about this blog is that it accommodates non-traditional views and unique kinds of fandom.

    I can only guess that its participants are mostly straight dudes, but would love it if more diverse communities joined in the conversation, bringing new perspectives and experiences to the discourse.

    Not sure what masculinity is supposed to mean these days, but happy if that conversation can move beyond barbecues and tits and bear wrestling, too.

  142. Gerta Rauss says:

    Munny:
    Caller Zen,

    Doesn’t it refer to the attack on Dan Rather?

    Yes

    I had to google it but I knew that Dan Rather was involved

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny: Also, there’s no 5 minute major, it’s either 2 or a game.

    For what? A hit to the head? I don’t believe this is correct.

  144. Ben says:

    OriginalPouzar: For what?A hit to the head?I don’t believe this is correct.

    There’s no provision for 5 in the rule book. It’s either 2, or it’s intent to injure and a match. (The thinking being that either it’s incidental (2mins) or it’s not and you’re out of the game.)

  145. Caller Zen says:

    Munny:
    Caller Zen,

    Doesn’t it refer to the attack on Dan Rather?

    Yup, it’s true … but sometimes lyrics can resonate in different ways and there are some lines in that song that seem Rather fitting.

  146. Bag of Pucks says:

    Bling: I like this post and agree with much of it — in particular the bit about LT creating an amazing community — but I don’t at all understand this idea that traditional masculinity is under attack.

    You hear that a lot these days, and as a 30 something male, I have no clue what it means.

    I don’t feel like I’m under attack at all. Quite the opposite; I feel like this is the single best and most interesting time to be alive.

    There’s quite a bit of information on this if you’re inclined to look.

    Third wave of feminism. #Timesup . #Metoo. Incels. Misandry. Jordan Peterson. Harvey Weinstein. The list goes on.

    It’s a fairly divisive time in gender relations globally, individual experience aside.

  147. v4ance says:

    LMHF#1:
    v4ance,

    The last few days especially have clearly shown these guys all blow smoke and even those with supposed access can’t give the real story – right? We all get that now…right?

    Rishaug isn’t a reporter who tries to color his reports as clickbait. The reporting he did over the past month on the Oilers’ search for a new GM was factual AT THE TIME.

    The situation changed over the past weeks as Holland was ruled out and Keith Gretzky and Mark Hunter became the front runners. Later, once Yzerman claimed the post of GM and Holland was kicked up to POHO, the Oilers circled back and pursued Holland again.

    The funny thing is that you take Spector’s muckraking Red Wine reporting as gospel but you doubt serious reporters like Rishaug. Marc Spector has always written stories to generate controversy with an axe to grind and an agenda to push. IF the truth is part of the story, well fine, but that never got in the way of a good hit piece from Spector. He’ll be anyone’s mouthpiece if it gets him a few more clicks.

    Peter Chiarelli was the WORST GM in Oilers hstory but guys like you want to wave your hands and blame it all on the OBC as if Chiarelli had no influence at all.

  148. Munny says:

    Compher just can’t keep his ass off the scoresheet. Killer finish.

  149. Glovjuice says:

    Ben: +1

    One of the things I love about this blog is that it accommodates non-traditional views and unique kinds of fandom.

    I can only guess that its participants are mostly straight dudes, but would love it if more diverse communities joined in the conversation, bringing new perspectives and experiences to the discourse.

    Not sure what masculinity is supposed to mean these days, but happy if that conversation can move beyond barbecues and tits and bear wrestling, too.

    Actually, tits are rarely brought up on this blog since LT stopped including those photos of hot females at the bottom of his narrative.

  150. Glovjuice says:

    Bag of Pucks: There’s quite a bit of information on this if you’re inclined to look.

    Third wave of feminism. #Timesup . #Metoo. Incels. Misandry. Jordan Peterson. Harvey Weinstein. The list goes on.

    It’s a fairly divisive time in gender relations globally, individual experience aside.

    BOP is correct. And, many of us hate it.

  151. Ben says:

    Glovjuice: Actually, tits are rarely brought up on this blog since LT stopped including those photos of hot females at the bottom of his narrative.

    Wait–are you telling me that OBC doesn’t stand for Old Boobs Club?

  152. JimmyV1965 says:

    v4ance: So the coaches just throw up their hands and declare a lost cause for the remainder of the PP with the second unit on the ice?

    This kind of narrow minded thinking is what we should be trying to overcome.Increasing the effectiveness of the second unit can be an incremental improvement.Get a slightly better 2nd pair D, that helps too.Improve the breakouts and zone entries… another positive.Small improvements on the roster and the systems are the difference between making the playoffs and participating in the lottery every year.

    I was simply responding to your comment that there could have been improvement with PP2. I suppose anyone could improve, but the forwards on PP2 were awful and wouldn’t be on PP2 on virtually any other team in the league. It’s not fair to criticize the coaches for PP2.

  153. Pescador says:

    Ben: Wait–are you telling me that OBC doesn’t stand for Old Boobs Club?

    Is there a PBC,
    And if so how do I join?

  154. LMHF#1 says:

    v4ance,

    Umm…Spector’s completely full of BS…not sure where you’re going with that unless it’s just a theoretical.

    For all the times people say “Stauffer must know something” or comments about press legitimacy…it’s all half truths and spin and trial balloons and speculation. It leads back to “access” not really having a point. Wish more writers would take that approach and just hold be to account/apply critical thought. Would result in better sports town/franchise. See NYC/Montreal/Boston etc.

  155. Side says:

    Bag of Pucks: There’s quite a bit of information on this if you’re inclined to look.

    Third wave of feminism. #Timesup . #Metoo. Incels. Misandry. Jordan Peterson. Harvey Weinstein. The list goes on.

    It’s a fairly divisive time in gender relations globally, individual experience aside.

    Those things you listed all have nothing to do with masculinity. And they are not gender related, imo, they are asshole related as they are directed or involve assholes.

  156. Cowboy says:

    OriginalPouzar: I would posit that disposing of Lucic does not clasify as “not do much” – its tough to analyze the plan you propose without knowing how much pain is being taken in order to remove that contract.

    Similar premise with Russell – a potential clean disposition, to me, is a material move.

    I definitely bet on Puljujarvi being an every day part of the top 9 – I’m not sure where in there but, give the man consistent linemates and consistent minutes through not less than a 2/5 of the season and I believe we will see a material increase in his play (assuming one of those linemates is Nuge, McDavid or Drai).

    Hey OP

    I would agree that getting rid of Lucic is more than doing little, I have him penciled in on the 4th line cause I feel the cost to remove will be to steep.
    Can’t see a way we ditch him without losing too much and have resigned that he will still be an oiker come fall for what I would add to trade him.

  157. Cowboy says:

    Lowetide,

    Thanks LT,

    I love posting here but usually dont get to read till after most of the discussion is over so often just soak it all in.

  158. Cowboy says:

    pts2pndr,

    I would not be the least bit surprised go see a female in the big chair soon, 6 years is likely not far off cause they would likely get groomed as AGM first.
    One thing that many forget is that almost every single high level women’s hockey player is educated. They played NCAA because that’s the only route they have.
    Wick is/was in med school and some think that’s only because she is that smart and can as opposed to wants to be a dr. Think about that she might be so smart she is in med school just because; some of us do sudoku as a challenge Haha. She may very much want to be a Dr. But I think hockey is lucky to have her.

    I am lucky enough to have married a former women’s hockey player that was very successful and got to do some cool things (she was a final cut before centralization for the Olympics one year) and the amount of smart women dictates it will be soon someone gets a chance

  159. OriginalPouzar says:

    Cowboy: COWB

    Sorry – I missed Lucic on the 4th line in your lineup and thought that he as gone (and wasn’t sure what you posited as the cost to remove that contract).

  160. Cowboy says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    No worries. That’s too big a dream at this point without gibving up lots so i left it alone.

    Russell i think is much easier and i did leave him off. And did mention betting on jake allen too

  161. Bulging Twine says:

    John Shannon

    Verified account

    @JSportsnet
    Following Following @JSportsnet
    More
    Ken Holland ‘s announcement as Oilers GM will occur today.
    6:58 AM – 7 May 2019

    Not sure if that will include the press conference or just the official announcement

  162. OriginalPouzar says:

    10 am press conference.

  163. Bulging Twine says:

    Bulging Twine:
    John Shannon

    Verified account

    @JSportsnet
    Following Following @JSportsnet
    More
    Ken Holland ‘s announcement as Oilers GM will occur today.
    6:58 AM – 7 May 2019

    Not sure if that will include the press conference or just the official announcement

    monton Oilers

    Verified account

    @EdmontonOilers
    52s52 seconds ago
    More
    #Oilers CEO & Vice Chair Bob Nicholson will host a press conference this morning at 10am MT. You can watch live on Twitter, http://EdmontonOilers.com , http://YouTube.com/Oilers , our Facebook page & our mobile app.

  164. Bobcaygeon says:

    I’m going to be positive here just an observation really.

    IF the OEG contract with Holland is bonus loaded (Lets hope to hell they did this) and performance bonuses are heavy then…..

    I actually do think Holland will SMARTLY gut this team and gut it quickly.

    I think the main goal is to drop heavy CAP before or at the draft & have the Oilers ready for SOME free agents.

    I think the consensus on what they need wont change but names I think you might hear this summer are..

    Myers
    Nelson
    Lee
    Lehner
    Varlamov

    I think one of those names is an Oiler at the start of next year.

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