Like a Hurricane

One of the things Ken Holland said after arriving in Edmonton surrounded improving the bottom-six forwards. Two of his moves, adding Markus Granlund and Josh Archibald, are designed to shore up that area of the roster. Both men bring some offense and utility. Holland needs a third-line center and a scoring winger. He isn’t done. Right?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • New Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • New Kent Wilson and Lowetide: Why the Flames and Oilers would (and wouldn’t) trade Sam Bennett for Jesse Puljujarvi
  • New Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • New Jonathan Willis: What the Oilers’ 2020 cap situation suggests about Ken Holland’s master plan.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: With free agency all but over, Oilers’ Ken Holland has tough work ahead on the trade front
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Is there anyone left in free agency who can help the Oilers?
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: The Oilers have a new amateur scouting director. What can we learn from Tyler Wright’s track record at the draft?
  • Lowetide: The Oilers are finally recovering from the wayward 2014 Draft
  • Lowetide: Projecting Darnell Nurse’s next contract and possible trades
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A missing mom, aching feet and looking for Kevin Lowe: A week in the life of Oilers prospect Raphael Lavoie
  • Lowetide: What to do when Connor McDavid rests: The Oilers’ ideal No. 2 line for 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Adding a scorer will be Ken Holland’s first big move as Oilers GM
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the Oilers’ depth chart looks like now and where they go from here
  • Jonathan Willis: How often do goalies like the Oilers’ Mike Smith rebound?
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster moves clear the way for Oilers top prospects Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto.
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers GM Ken Holland promises long-term rewards for an approach light on short-term improvements
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Trade market now most likely place for Oilers to find scoring winger
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘He comes as advertised’: Philip Broberg’s skating makes him development camp standout for Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers plan to skew younger on defence could open the door for Evan Bouchard, Dmitri Samorukov
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.
  • Lowetide: Are these Jesse Puljujarvi’s final days with the Edmonton Oilers?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ranking the Oilers’ trade assets from the high-priced diamonds to those needing fresh starts
  • Lowetide: Oilers GM Ken Holland is shopping for 20-goal scorers on a budget. What will he find?

COYOTES 2016-17 FORWARDS

Dave Tippett’s final Coyotes team didn’t have a lot of scoring power up front and there weren’t many useful veterans. He ran his best young offensive forward (Domi) with his best center and scoring winger (Hanzal and Vrbata). Then he cobbled together something resembling a checking line (Martinook trio) and ran what was left on the 2 and 4 lines. His most successful line was Perlini-Dvorak-Doan, outscoring opponents 12-6 in 292 minutes. What is the Oilers equivalent of Perlini-Dvorak-Doan?

OILERS 2018-19 FORWARDS

Tippett’s top line in Edmonton should be able to outscore opponents this season, but the 2-4 lines are going to be a challenge. I’ve put together a checking line (sans center) for the No. 3 group and a fourth line that should be able to outscore the soft parade. Nuge is an orphan again. I’m fascinated to see how Tippett runs his lines. Note: I’m not running Gagner on the Nuge line because I don’t like Samwise against elites 35-40 percent of the time. He should be a more productive player on the No. 4 line imo.

A quick note on Josh Archibald. I think Tippett will use him up and down the order, but am hopeful the team finds a No. 3 center who can run with him. If the duo can outscore at five-on-five and PK, that’s a helluva value for a $1 million winger.

It’s 70 percent yes after 4,000 votes, I think it’ll finish around that number. Twitter isn’t the best gauge but it does give us an indication of the direction of the fan base.

BENSON VERSUS LUCIC

This is a battle that is likely to be fought during the 2019-20 season. Odds favor Benson starting the year in Bakersfield, as new management and coaching staff talk up Lucic (“he’s in the best shape of his life!”). The long game favors the youngster. Let’s review the production of each man during the final 25 games of 2018-19:

Milan Lucic: 25, 1-5-6, 22 shots (NHL)

Tyler Benson: 25, 10-22-32, 63 shots (AHL)

Even if you cut the Benson numbers in half, there’s plenty of horsepower there. Holland and Tippett may plan to slow play the yutes, but they’re not going to be ridiculous about elevating men like Benson.

THE KIDS ON BLUE

I assume you read all of Jonathan Willis’ pieces, so recommending one seems a bit over the top. Still, his article on puck movers (here) is outstanding and a must read. If you look at the depth charts for left and right defense (here), and remember Tippett took Chychrun for his NHL roster while he was still a child, suddenly training camp becomes a lot more interesting.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

Friday!! We kickstart the weekend at 10 this morning, TSN1260. Steve Lansky from BigMouthSports at 10:20 to talk media, live mic CFL and summer holidays. Matt Iwanyk will be live at 11:05 to talk about the Eskimos and The Open. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.

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436 Responses to "Like a Hurricane"

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  1. treevojo says:

    HT Joe: That would be the greatest hockey clip any of us would ever witness.

    It would be awesome!!!

    As long as I’m out east watching it happen.

  2. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    ArmchairGM: Still waiting for Holland to do something positive…

    Exactly making my point.

  3. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lightgestalt:
    Andy Dufresne,

    Why should he want to hit/hurt Chiasson and Draisaitl, but not Nuge and McDavid?

    NHL players hit hard. Lucic hits extra hard. Lucic hits bigger players harder.

    (probably because he cant catch / keep up to the smaller players 🙂 )

  4. digger50 says:

    Andy Dufresne: The guy is a class act. Hes certainly not gonna hit McDavid with intent to injure. (nor RNH)

    But if I was Neal, Chaisson, or Draisaitl, (or any of the new faces) Id keep my head up when Lucic is on the ice.

    Jessie P. The looks thrown Jessie’s way could not be missed. Lucic / JP collision would be a heck of a train wreck.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    bwar:
    Apparently Lucic has more points over the past five years as James Neal.And during Lucic’s three years in Edmonton, the two players have put up the exact same amount of points.Totally cool with the trade, it just doesn’t feel like a homerun.

    Recall that Lucic did have 50 or so points in the first year but it was almost all off a one-time PP heater where he literally doubled his career highs in every category. He was never a PP producer before and hasn’t been in the two seasons after. His 5 on 5 rates have been 4th line for the entire time he’s been in Edmonton but his overall numbers are propped up a bit by the heater.

    Not to say that there aren’t nuances for Neal as well but, if there are, I don’t know them but I do know that Lucic’s “3 year scoring rate” isn’t reflective of his current game or play.

  6. Andy Dufresne says:

    John Chambers:
    Do the Flames’ pro scouts know that Lucic is barely a 4th liner?

    Maybe we talk them into Brandon Manning

    Will be interesting to see the reaction from Lames fans on the fan pages

  7. Andy Dufresne says:

    digger50: Jessie P. The looks thrown Jessie’s way could not be missed. Lucic / JP collisionwould be a heck of a train wreck.

    Yup. Add him to the list. JP is a big guy.

    My wish list for Santa: To be delivered December 27th

    1) JP levels Lucic at mid ice. Lucic leaves the game
    2) Mike Smith shuts out his old team
    3) James Neal scores the game winner in OVERTIME!

  8. digger50 says:

    Andy Dufresne: Yup. Add him to the list. JP is a big guy.

    And the fact that they can meet up in playoffs now.

    (smiley face)

  9. bwar says:

    John Chambers,

    Isn’t that what Neal was for Calgary last year?

  10. commonfan29 says:

    I assume Looch only agree to waive his NMC if Calgary assures him that they’ll honour it, but who knows – maybe he’s desperate or his agent is incompetent.

    In any case, we might want to prepare ourselves for the annoyance of watching Calgary ship Looch off to Ottawa and get all the way out of cap hell.

  11. Lightgestalt says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Ah ok,so no personal vendetta – thanks for explaining, am relieved 😉

  12. Ben says:

    On the surface it’s a massive win based on buyout structure and movement protection alone. Any regression to the meat is meat gravy.

  13. bwar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Recall that Lucic did have 50 or so points in the first year but it was almost all off a one-time PP heater where he literally doubled his career highs in every category.He was never a PP producer before and hasn’t been in the two seasons after.His 5 on 5 rates have been 4th line for the entire time he’s been in Edmonton but his overall numbers are propped up a bit by the heater.

    Not to say that there aren’t nuances for Neal as well but, if there are, I don’t know them but I do know that Lucic’s “3 year scoring rate” isn’t reflective of his current game or play.

    So what exactly makes Lucic’s down year a larger negative than Neal’s? We swapped bums with Calgary. It’s nothing more than that. Neal will likely get a better opportunity in Edmonton this season than he did in Calgary last year but he’s not magically turning back into a 40 goal scorer, those days are over.

  14. Gerta Rauss says:

    Ben:
    On the surface it’s a massive win based on buyout structure and movement protection alone. Any regression to the meat is meat gravy.

    Can we at least pour the foundation for the statue..?

  15. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Straight up this is such a win for the Oilers I can’t imagine there aren’t other pieces involved and am somewhat worried.

    Even taking apart the players, the contracts:

    – Neal’s is $250K cheaper per year

    – Neal’s has no trade protection (so no worry about not waiving for the expansion draft)

    – Neal has zero signing bonus so an normal buyout structure

    Then, of course, the players.They both absolutely were terrible last year, Neal included, however:

    – Neal has had one bad year.Lucic has been bad at 5 on 5 for three straight years (4th line scoring rates each year)

    – I don’t know if Neal has shown an inability to take a pass at the blueline from a d-man, pivot and efficiently move the puck to a forward but Lucic has.

    The only hesitation is that Lucic actually has good (positive) metrics even away from McDavid – he’s a black hole offensively and kills plays, momentum, etc., however, the other team also doesn’t score much leading to positive goals share.

    Neal can actually take and make a pass to his own team mate. Neal can make plays with the puck. There is every reason to believe he will come to camp in the best condition of his life, looking at being able to play with the best player in hockey, or at least Draisaitl.

  16. gogliano says:

    Kudos to Holland. If there isn’t a 1st involved I strain to see a retention amount that would make me look negatively on the deal save for the very extreme.

    I wasn’t a fan of the Sekera buyout when it happened but this is a magical use of the dollars. So taken as a whole this is a nice start to Holland’s tenure.

  17. Oilman99 says:

    bwar: So what exactly makes Lucic’s down year a larger negative than Neal’s?We swapped bums with Calgary.It’s nothing more than that.Neal will likely get a better opportunity in Edmonton this season than he did in Calgary last year but he’s not magically turning back into a 40 goal scorer, those days are over.

    Even if he only scores 10-15 goals a year, it is a massive upgrade, plus Neal can take, and make a pass, and still hit people. One bad year does not a bum make.

  18. Oilman99 says:

    bwar: So what exactly makes Lucic’s down year a larger negative than Neal’s?We swapped bums with Calgary.It’s nothing more than that.Neal will likely get a better opportunity in Edmonton this season than he did in Calgary last year but he’s not magically turning back into a 40 goal scorer, those days are over.

    Lucic has had multiple down years, with no sign things will improve.

  19. Andy Dufresne says:

    1260 radio saying

    Lucic has been traded to the Calgary Flames for James Neal,
    BUT
    “The deal will not be completed today.”

    What? Why Not?

  20. Andy Dufresne says:

    I must be losing it.

    I though Lucic was younger than Neal? No?

  21. bwar says:

    Oilman99,

    Lucic and Neal have the same amount of points over the last three years and a similar decline. So I guess that means Neal has also had multiple down years?

  22. bwar says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    about 9 months

  23. Andy Dufresne says:

    From Ryan Pike:

    Re: Lucic NMC: My understanding is if Lucic waived only for the purpose of a trade (and there’s no negotiated addendum to his contract), he would still need to be protected for Seattle expansion draft.

  24. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    – Maybe t’s not the final destination for one or both of them?

  25. Andy Dufresne says:

    FUN FACT:

    If the Oilers were to buy out Neal next June during the buy out window, he would come at a cap hit of $1,916,667 for the next six seasons.

  26. Pretendergast says:

    So the net win is that if real deal James Neal isn’t passably good despite the early ‘best shape of his life’ (Roberts, Gary) rhetoric already coming out, we can just buy it out and move on with our lives or we don’t have to protect for Seattle. I’ll take it.

    The retainer and conditional pick that seem to be involved worry me. Also, we are not literally a better team, just likely more flexible for the future, which is nice long term but not for this season.

    Here’s hoping the trade goes through and James scores 20!

  27. Oilman99 says:

    HT Joe: The Edmonton media and fans have dumped on Lucic for 3 years now… I don’t think he had that situation with LA or Boston… he was loved there.

    You have to earn love, not so sure there was much love for him in LA, rather maybe the odd big hit.

  28. Doug McLachlan says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Andy Dufresne,

    – Maybe t’s not the final destination for one or both of them?

    Would Calgary flip him to Vancouver for Erikkson?

  29. DBO says:

    Think I saw the salary retention as only $600k only.

    Wonder if the conditional pick is tied to playoffs or maybe a Neal buyout next summer.

  30. Side says:

    Doug McLachlan: Would Calgary flip him to Vancouver for Erikkson?

    And then the Oilers trade Neal to Vancouver for Lucic, completing the Oilers circle of ineptitude.

  31. Andy Dufresne says:

    Flames Fans Comments: I did not cherry pick these. These were the first 7 comments posted.

    “Yep this is it for me. Treliving’s new worst move. Unreal.”

    “Would have rather kept Neal. So gross.”

    “Vomit”

    “If this is true, then Brad Treliving has taken complete leave of his senses.”

    “Will wait for details but this is bad if its a straight up one for one trade.”

    “This simply does not make sense. Neal has the better chance of bouncing back, has a lower cap hit, and can be bought out. what the #### ”

    “Oh god no……… No no no no…… Unless JP is thrown in.”

  32. Bulging Twine says:

    Don’t have to protect Lucic in the expansion draft — > that’s BEEG important

  33. leadfarmer says:

    We traded Lucic that we couldn’t buy out for a Lucic that we can.
    And don’t need to worry about the NMC
    Good job Holland

  34. leadfarmer says:

    Is Lucic going to be happy there?

  35. Doug McLachlan says:

    Bulging Twine:
    Don’t have to protect Lucic in the expansion draft— >that’s BIG important

    I am suspecting that the conditional pick will relate to if Lucic refuses to waive his NMC for the Seattle expansion. If that is the case, it may be higher than we are all suspecting since that is a huge thing.

  36. Andy Dufresne says:

    Flames Fans Comments Continued:

    “That pick better be a 1st round pick.”

    “Please tell me they are retaining all of his cap hit.”

    “Is this Treliving’s version of D.Sutter’s December of insanity? Absolutely gross.”

    “Wasn’t there rumors of Neal and Peters not getting along? Wonder if this forced Calgary’s hand”.

    “Surely their must have been better options than this though. YUCK.”

    “imagine willingly trading for Lucic to lose a protection spot in the expansion draft”

    “Poolparty better be coming.”

    “If there is no agreement in place to waive his NMC for expansion I think I’m going to be sick.”

    “If they retain 50% making Lucic a $3M player, plus he waives his NMC going forward, plus the pick is a 1st. Then maybe. But still….”

  37. Nit64 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    From Ryan Pike:

    Re: Lucic NMC: My understanding is if Lucic waived only for the purpose of a trade (and there’s no negotiated addendum to his contract), he would still need to be protected for Seattle expansion draft.

    Think that’s backwards. By default the NMC is gone when waived. The side agreement is to renew it in full or in part. That could be the extra paperwork that’s holding this over to tomorrow.

    If I’d have to guess Flames might accept some limits, but not accept having to protect him from the draft

  38. Professor Q says:

    I hear rumours of Edmonton retaining 10% and providing a 1st rounder to Calgary.

    Could be grumpkins but maybe one of you have seen anything about this?

  39. Professor Q says:

    Doug McLachlan: I am suspecting that the conditional pick will relate to if Lucic refuses to waive his NMC for the Seattle expansion.If that is the case, it may be higher than we are all suspecting since that is a huge thing.

    He’s already waived said clause. Calgary chooses now.

  40. Bulging Twine says:

    Wonder if we’ll see a Kassian – Lucic fight?

    Tkachuk does something dirty. Stirs it up. Kassian comes over. Lucic obliged to come over, especially being on a new team…..

    and the fight will be anticlimactic like most fights

  41. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Professor Q:
    I hear rumours of Edmonton retaining 10% and providing a 1st rounder to Calgary.

    Could be grumpkins but maybe one of you have seen anything about this?

    – write this down “if a 1st round pick is attached to Lucic and nothing coming back , Kinger isn’t coming back “

  42. leadfarmer says:

    So why isn’t it official yet

  43. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Oh, I’m cautiously optimistic all right. I’m just not ready to build a statue of Holland just yet like some of the others are. It’s a shit contract for a shit contract, the savings are paltry ($250k) and they’re talking about Edmonton retaining salary and throwing in a conditional pick. So excuse me if I’m not over the moon!

    Disposing of Lucic for that contract if the retained salary is $1M or under and the conditional pick is not a 1st rounder is indeed a homerun in my view. That’s if Neal remains an anchor.

    Add the potential for Neal to actually bounce-back, and this is a grand slam.

    Shit, Neal is one year removed from 25G – just one year. Players bounce back after one year all the time. They don’t bounce back after 3 years but they do after 1.

    He’s working out with Roberts this off-season. We should never put too much in to “best shape of my life” but, considering a (the) main issue with Neal last year was not being in shape and Peters not liking that and it leading to bottom 6 minutes…..

  44. Andy Dufresne says:

    More Fan Reaction from Cow Town:

    An Oilers second round pick is basically a 1st.

    Neal for sure is hitting the 20 goal mark again next season

    Neal will probably explode with McDavid

    Thats the #### part. Neal will prob have a 45-55 pt season

    The trade is a wash in terms of foot speed. I feel sick.

    Here’s my “try to make this palatable” take:

    a. No NMC plus less salary might make Lucic tradable – more than Neal at this point.
    b. The NMC also makes Lucic buriable going forward. So maybe this is a pure cap space issue. Maybe makes Tkahcuk an easier signing.
    c. It does address toughness I guess.
    d. I got nothing else.

    Congrats to Austin Czarnik on the new Rolex he’ll be getting.#27

    I like it! Lucic is the poor mans Ferland……

    Neal and McDavid is a huge mismatch. McDavid plays a speed game. Neal does best off of good passing and puck control. Neal will still be at his own blue line when McDavid gets to the net.

    It shouldn’t take too long to change, “Oilers no move clause” to “Oilers no! Move clause.”

    woof_____________Be gooder.

  45. Gerta Rauss says:

    Professor Q:
    I hear rumours of Edmonton retaining 10% and providing a 1st rounder to Calgary.

    Could be grumpkins but maybe one of you have seen anything about this?

    I can confirm this is a rumor

  46. godot10 says:

    The conditional pick may be based on whether the Flames have to buy Lucic out.

    The Flames could potentially buy Lucic out as soon as one of their arbitration cases comes back.

    Lucic brings approximately a $2 million dollar cap savings this year. That and trading Neal frees up nearly $3 million this year, when they have Tkachuk, Bennett, and Rittich to sign.

    I think with some retention, buying out Lucic from the Flames perspective is much better than buying out Neal. The bumpiness of the buyout doesn’t matter to them, and the out years have a much lower cap hit.

    I think the Flames may have made the trade to buyout Lucic.

  47. Harpers Hair says:

    leadfarmer:
    So why isn’t it official yet

    Don’t be surprised if Lucic gets flipped to Vancouver.

  48. Ribs says:

    OriginalPouzar: Shit, Neal is one year removed from 25G – just one year. Players bounce back after one year all the time. They don’t bounce back after 3 years but they do after 1.

    Not unless they are the disesteemed cretin known as Dustin Brown.

  49. Andy Dufresne says:

    Being from Vancouver Lucic would probably waive his NMC for the Seattle expansion draft

    But he isn’t waiving it totally. No way he wants to go to the AHL.

  50. leadfarmer says:

    I’m worried that the Trouba contract will be used as a Nurse comparison next year

  51. Shane says:

    Professor Q:
    I hear rumours of Edmonton retaining 10% and providing a 1st rounder to Calgary.

    Could be grumpkins but maybe one of you have seen anything about this?

    Nice GoT reference

  52. Revolved says:

    I showed Rel team stats yesterday on these two players and said I would not do this deal one for one. Now I hope I’m wrong. But, if Neal doesn’t remember how to score next year, I suspect the only thing we’ll be happy about is the buy out structure. That would be depressing.

  53. leadfarmer says:

    At least Neal was injured last season which may be why his production dropped

  54. OmJo says:

    Liam McGuire
    @LiamRMcGuire

    James Neal 5v5 sh% in the last three years

    2015-16: 12.18% (24 goals)
    2016-17: 10.2% (15 goals)
    2017-18: 11.11% (17 goals)
    2018-19: 3.74% (4 goals)

    Not saying he’s amazing, but I’d trade Lucic for him 10/10 times.

    Regression to the meat?

  55. OmJo says:

    Revolved:
    I showed Rel team stats yesterday on these two players and said I would not do this deal one for one. Now I hope I’m wrong. But, if Neal doesn’t remember how to score next year, I suspect the only thing we’ll be happy about is the buy out structure. That would be depressing.

    But that would also be progress.

    Baby steps.

  56. OmJo says:

    leadfarmer:
    So why isn’t it official yet

    Sources are telling me that the Flames ownership is waiting for their GM to sober up before signing off on the trade. He’s being held in an undisclosed location with no cellphone privileges.

  57. Oil2Oilers says:

    Neal will likely rebound to 20 goals next season, which would likely buy him another season. Pushing the need for a buy out or further trade to the summer of 2021.

  58. OmJo says:

    Disclaimers: It’s John Shannon.


    John Shannon
    @JSportsnet

    No question that Neal did not see eye to eye with Bill Peters in Calgary. Oilers hoping being reunited with Dave Tippett will give James Neal a new lease on life. Tippett coached the winger in Dallas, where JN had 24 goals in his rookie season.

    Neal’s rookie season is long gone. But there’s hope.

  59. jonrmcleod says:

    Mark Spector
    @SportsnetSpec
    ·
    2m
    Oilers announce the trade, Lucic for Neal. Conditional pick is a 3rd in 2020

  60. Andy Dufresne says:

    More Flames Fan Comments:

    I tried doing this trade in CapFriendly and it rebooted my PC

    I wonder if the Ferland signing influenced Tre to make this deal. The thought of Lucic/Kassian and Ferland in the same division must have terrified him, especially with the abuse Gaudreau took last season.

    Friedman just said he thinks its $600,000 retained. I hope this is a typo and it’s 6,000,000 retained.

    I love the message this trade sends…… Under-perform and you go to Edmonton.

    Rumours of Neals attitude and poor relationship with Peters must have been true if they’re willing to stoop this low to move him out

    At least Lucic has his real teeth……………………. That’s all I’ve got.

    No wonder they leaked the arena deal news today lol trying to keep us all even keel

    According to Capfriendly Lucic’s NMC becomes a modified NTC where he can submit an 8 team list on June 1, 2021.

    Lucic Flames jersey group buy? Who’s with me?!? ….crickets,,,,,

    Condition should be if we get 2 1st rounders or a 1st and a 2nd

  61. Andy Dufresne says:

    For clarification on the NMC from CapFriendly:

    A No-Move Clause (NMC) can be added to a player’s contract in the years after they are eligible for Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency (7 Accrued seasons or 27 years of age), and has the following properties:
    Player cannot be traded without his consent (however, the clause can specify a modified no-trade clause that limits the NTC to a certain number of teams)
    Player cannot be placed on waivers without his consent
    Player cannot be assigned to the minors without his consent
    Player is not exempt from a buyout or contract termination
    The clause can travel with the player even if he consents to being traded or is claimed on waivers
    This requires that the acquiring team sign an addendum to the contract ensuring that the clause does in fact travel with the player (written by the player’s agent)
    If the acquiring team refuses to sign the addendum, and the player waives his clause anyway, at that point the clause may be nullified
    If the player is traded before the clause takes effect, the acquiring team can opt to void the clause

  62. texmex says:

    Oilers retain 12.5% or 750k?

  63. OmJo says:

    Edmonton Oilers
    @EdmontonOilers

    TRADE

    The #Oilers have acquired forward James Neal from the @NHLFlames in exchange for forward Milan Lucic & a conditional third-round pick in 2020.

  64. texmex says:

    Official: Flames also acquire a conditional third round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft and Oilers will also retain a portion (12.5%) of Lucic’s remaining contract.

    Kristen Anderson
    Calgary sun

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    HTJoe:
    Put me in the crowd concerned that a motivated Lucic will seriously injure a significant Oiler player before Christmas.Trading an enforcer to the Flames is risky business.

    Has he injured an opponent during the term of his current contract?

    He is also not an enforcer – he fought twice last year and his fight with now Condor, Peluso, was a draw at best.

  66. Professor Q says:

    I can’t wait to see what else keeps getting added.

  67. texmex says:

    I wonder if Calgary flips looch with 50% retained.

    Looch at 2.625 per is tolerable perhaps?

  68. russ99 says:

    Well done Mr. Holland. That’s quite a trade. Hope Neal pans out and can supply some decent offense.

  69. Andy Dufresne says:

    Flames Fan Comments:

    I agree with the point that the possibility of Neal rebounding is higher than Lucic, however, Neal will be playing in Edmonton, one serious thought come to mind, who has ever rebounded playing in Edmonton?Also….F U Jason Gregor for providing me with comfort and being horribly wrong…

    This seems to be hung up in paperwork………Puljujarvi ate it.

    McDavid got abused last year. The idea that Lucic will somehow protect Johnny and Mony is a fallacy.

    I’ve never wanted James Neal on this team so badly.

    What I know is this. I was resigned to the fact that Neal was on our roster this year, had made my peace with that, so I’m not necessarily happy that he’s gone. But I have spent three years making fun of Edmonton for the Lucic contract, and now it’s ours. It’s like you’ve not only taken away my favorite toy, but your hitting me over the head with it too.

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    theDjdj: I’d be so bold to suggest that Nurse may be one of the best fighters in the league. He honestly savages players.

    I’d take Khaira over almost any player in the league.

  71. Andy Dufresne says:

    Originally Posted by SuperMatt18 View Post
    The advanced and counting stats aren’t actually that far apart for these two over the last two seasons.

    If you look at the last two seasons at 5v5:

    Counting Stats:

    Neal:
    GP: 134
    G: 22
    A: 20
    P: 42
    Shots: 264
    Shooting Percentage: 8.33%
    Hits: 88

    Lucic:
    GP: 161
    G: 11
    A: 28
    P: 39
    Shots: 185
    Shooting Percentage: 5.95%
    Hits: 492

    That’s actually way closer than I thought it would be. Neal the better goal scorer but not as good of a distributor, and doesn’t play physical Anymore. Lucic’s shot seems to have dissapeared but he can still hit.

    Advanced Stats:

    Neal:
    CF%: 50.5%
    CF%: -1.76%
    HDCF%: 47.4%
    GF%: 46.4%
    xGF%: 48.1%
    xGF% Rel: -4.69%
    PDO: .992
    Offensive Zone Start: 59.5%

    Lucic
    CF%: 50.9%
    CF% Rel:2.09%
    HDCF%: 50.8%
    GF%: 47.1%
    xGF%: 51.2%
    XGF% Rel: 2.3%
    PDO: .992
    Offensive Zone Start: 49.8%

    From an advanced stat perspective Lucic has actually been much better than Neal over the last two seasons. Better from a raw number perspective, better from a relative to teammates perspective, and did it with tougher zone starts.

  72. OmJo says:

    Both a draft pick AND salary retention kinda sucks. But I can see Neal bouncing back this season, if I squint really hard. And that he for sure doesn’t have to be protected in the expansion draft… I think it comes to close to even as of right now. Can be a win depending how the season goes.

  73. texmex says:

    defmn,

    12.5 petcent

  74. jonrmcleod says:

    defmn,

    Calgary mentioned the salary retention in their announcement.

  75. russ99 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Yeah, he’s a killer.

  76. defmn says:

    jonrmcleod:
    defmn,

    Calgary mentioned the salary retention in their announcement.

    I see that now. Thanks. I had already deleted my post but too late. 😉

  77. OmJo says:

    Going to assume the conditional pick is based on Neal rebounding or not and reaching a certain offense goal.

  78. texmex says:

    OmJo,

    Friedman mentioned that today when on air with Stauffer.

    I’m guessing if Neal scores 20 this season, pick is 3rd. If not, it’s a fourth

  79. Bulging Twine says:

    The other thing with this trade and the other moves this off season is we are seeing the type of player Holland values against his predecessor.

    Neal – shooter vs Lucic – “heavy hockey” and more assists than goals

    Granlund – more goals than assists

    Archibald – goals over assists

    Holland always talks goals

  80. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lucic posting his name and #17 on a Flames Jersey on his official twitter account.

    Deal must be done.

    https://twitter.com/statuses/1152358565715140608

  81. Material Elvis says:

    Another subtle good move by Holland. Traded the leftover sod for a used wheelbarrow. Maybe next year he can trade up to a hedge trimmer.

  82. OriginalPouzar says:

    bwar: So what exactly makes Lucic’s down year a larger negative than Neal’s?We swapped bums with Calgary.It’s nothing more than that.Neal will likely get a better opportunity in Edmonton this season than he did in Calgary last year but he’s not magically turning back into a 40 goal scorer, those days are over.

    Lucic – 3 down years

    Neal – 1 down year

  83. Andy Dufresne says:

    “You’re always aware of where he is when you’re out there against him. To be honest, he’s gotten me a couple times in my career with some big hits.

    “He’s a presence out there.

    “He’s a guy, that when you play against him, you know where he’s at all times. And he’s a guy that can get to the front of the net and make things happen too.

    “He plays the game hard and he plays it the right way.”

    “Playing against him, you know he’s a really fierce competitor. He’s a good leader, too, a guy who has won, who has been there and done it before,” Giordano explained. “Everyone around the league knows how tough he is and that grittiness he can bring into your lineup.

    “He’s a guy that a lot of the players in the league, including myself, respect and I think he’s going to be a nice fit into our team. It will be nice to have him on our side of the ice now.”
    -Mark Giordano
    https://www.nhl.com/flames/news/gior…ms/c-308305746

  84. Andy Dufresne says:

    Best player in the trade is the 2020 conditional 3rd round pick. 🙂

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    bwar:
    Oilman99,

    Lucic and Neal have the same amount of points over the last three years and a similar decline.So I guess that means Neal has also had multiple down years?

    You read and responded to my post on this – A huge part of that was the weird one-off heater Lucic went on on the PP in his 1st year – literally doubled all of his prior career highs on the PP, across the board. He was awful at 5 on 5 that year just like the last two years. He never produced on the PP prior to that year and hasn’t produced since. Lucic has been awful for 3 years, Neal for 1.

  86. Rondo says:

    Friedman

    Verified account

    @FriedgeHNIC
    Follow Follow @FriedgeHNIC
    More
    EDM retains 12.5 per cent of Lucic contract

    5:08 PM – 19 Jul 2019

  87. Side says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    People are aware of Lucic on the ice in the same way they are aware of the boards and goalposts in the sense that when they run into them, it will hurt and Lucic also moves about just as quickly and produces just as many assists.

  88. texmex says:

    Per Gregor

    His agent, Gerry Johansson, confirmed to me the Flames will honour the NMC. Not surprising, most teams do. #NHL

  89. Andy Dufresne says:

    its a win win for both teams

    Lucic
    -Lucic has a more positive effect on his team’s ability to possess the puck
    -Lucic is better defensively
    -Lucic has a reputation for being big and scary, even if he does not actually fight very much
    -Lucic does lay a lot more hits than Neal
    -The trade gives the Flames $500K more cap space and a conditional 3rd round pick

    Neal
    -Neal is better at helping his team generate offensive chances
    -There is likely more potential upside for the Oilers because of the chance of a resurgent Neal
    -Neal has a much better penalty differential
    – Neal contract is better

  90. Nit64 says:

    Oil use up another 500k of cap
    Give up a conditional 3rd
    Able to protect one more player from Seattle.

    Time will tell

    Biggest bonus would be telling JP his choice is playing with Looch or playing in Edmonton.

    Update: if Flames agreed to the NMC to do the deal, it’s like a protection spot moved in the trade.

  91. Reja says:

    Tippett has smith and now Neal both will be given every opportunity to succeed.

  92. Nit64 says:

    I would like to be in Calgary tomorrow if the big reveal is that the 3rd is conditional on the Oilers making the playoffs next year 😉

  93. jtblack says:

    TREVLIVING has made a lot of good moves …. but here is the Timeline of how he Landed Lucic ..

    2016 – SIGNS AGING POWER FORWARD (BROUWER)
    2018/19 – BUYS OUT AGING POWER FORWARD

    2018/19 – IMMEDIATELY SIGNS DIFFERENT AGING POWER FORWARD (NEAL)
    2019 – TRADES NEAL FOR AGING POWER FORWARD (LUCIC).

    NOW HAS CAP CONSEQUENSES OF

    87.5% LUCIC CONTRACT – $5,250,000 / YR 4 LEFT
    BROUWER BUYOUT – $1,500,000 / YR 3 LEFT

    So Essentially from that Fateful UFA signing in 2016; Trevliving now has an aging power forward (Milan Lucic) for 4 more years @ $6,750,0000.

    There’s a thing in Stocks, about chasing Bad Money ….

    In this case, it’s chasing bad power forwards …..

  94. Bulging Twine says:

    What’s the condition?

    Sometimes those move up to a 2nd or a 1st depending
    or they could move down to a 4th-7th or to no pick?

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ribs: Not unless they are the disesteemed cretin known as Dustin Brown.

    Dustin Brown is the only player to bounce back after one down year?

  96. jtblack says:

    Bulging Twine:
    What’s the condition?

    Sometimes those move up to a 2nd or a 1st depending
    or they could move down to a 4th-7th or to no pick?

    it can’t move up or it would be called “A conditional 1st” or “a conditional 2nd”

    3rd would be the highest … .based on some condition of Neal (ie: 20 Goals) or Edmonton (making playoffs)

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    I’m worried that the Trouba contract will be used as a Nurse comparison next year

    If anything, I think it caps it.

    If Nurse approaches 50 points next year, well, that is one hell of a hockey player….

  98. texmex says:

    jtblack: it can’t move up or it would be called “A conditional 1st” or “a conditional 2nd”

    3rd would be the highest … .based on some condition of Neal (ie: 20 Goals) or Edmonton (making playoffs)

    Athletic says the condition is if Neal scores 10 more goals than Looch

  99. Alpine says:

    Tippett’s gotten really good years out of age 30+ forwards before…

    I haven’t checked to see if those guys saw huge decline before their good years under Tippett.

  100. leadfarmer says:

    Even if Looch scores 40 points per year and Neal doesn’t play a game we won this trade.
    Lucic could very easily say he doesn’t want to go to Seattle

  101. Bulging Twine says:

    Bulging Twine:
    What’s the condition?

    Sometimes those move up to a 2nd or a 1st depending
    or they could move down to a 4th-7th or to no pick?

    Mark Spector

    Verified account

    @SportsnetSpec
    Following Following @SportsnetSpec
    More
    Confirming conditions on the 2020 3rd rd pick, but believe they are set around how many goals Neal scores in EDM.

  102. Bulging Twine says:

    jtblack: it can’t move up or it would be called “A conditional 1st” or “a conditional 2nd”

    3rd would be the highest … .based on some condition of Neal (ie: 20 Goals) or Edmonton (making playoffs)

    Oh good. Are we sure about this?

  103. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    Dammit! When is capfriendly going to show the trade terms and updated rosters! I want to see the oilers roster with no Lucic on it!

  104. leadfarmer says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Neal has been a significantly negative player in last 3 seasons which included time with Pens Vegas and Calgary
    Keep him for a year and buy him out

  105. jtblack says:

    Bulging Twine: Oh good.Are we sure about this?

    Do you have an example when that wasn’t the case?

  106. Bulging Twine says:

    Bulging Twine: Oh good.Are we sure about this?

    Here’s one that worked upwards from the stated conditional pick:

    Apr 30, 2019
    Carolina Hurricanes Acquire:
    Carolina Hurricanes

    2019 2nd round pick (NYR – #37 – Mads Søgaard)
    2020 conditional 3rd round pick* (NYR)
    *Conditions: If Adam Fox plays in 30 games in the 2019-20 season, the 2020 3rd round pick will upgrade to a 2020 2nd round pick
    Sum: $0
    Change: $0

    New York Rangers Acquire:
    New York Rangers

    Adam Fox · $0 (Signing Rights)
    Sum: $0
    Change: $0

  107. texmex says:

    Mark Spector

    Verified account

    @SportsnetSpec
    19s20 seconds ago
    More
    Two conditions have to be met for Oilers to send 3rd round pick to Calgary – James Neal has to record at least 21 goals and Lucic scores at least 10 fewer goals than Neal.

  108. Bulging Twine says:

    jtblack: Do you have an example when that wasn’t the case?

    Here’s another as per garfield, I mean Capfriendly – (Hey TreenasOil got one right):

    Feb 25, 2019
    Nashville Predators Acquire:
    Nashville Predators

    Wayne Simmonds · $3,975,000
    Sum: $3,975,000
    Change: +$3,100,000

    Philadelphia Flyers Acquire:
    Philadelphia Flyers

    Ryan Hartman · $875,000
    2020 conditional 4th round pick* (NSH)
    *Conditions: The 2020 4th round pick upgrades to a 2020 3rd round pick if Nashville wins one round in the 2018-19 playoffs.

    Result: Condition not met. Philadelphia receives a 2020 4th round pick
    Sum: $875,000

  109. jtblack says:

    Bulging Twine: Here’s one that worked upwards from the stated conditional pick:

    Apr 30, 2019
    Carolina Hurricanes Acquire:
    Carolina Hurricanes

    2019 2nd round pick (NYR – #37 – Mads Søgaard)
    2020 conditional 3rd round pick* (NYR)
    *Conditions: If Adam Fox plays in 30 games in the 2019-20 season, the 2020 3rd round pick will upgrade to a 2020 2nd round pick
    Sum: $0
    Change: $0

    New York Rangers Acquire:
    New York Rangers

    Adam Fox · $0 (Signing Rights)
    Sum: $0
    Change: $0

    thanks for that. Learned something.

    I have never known it to be able to move up ….

    in my language, that would be called a “conditional 2nd round pick” …

    Anyway, I am pretty sure the Conditional 3rd is as high as the pick can be according to TEXMEX (Mark Spector)

  110. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    texmex: Athletic says the condition is if Neal scores 10 more goals than Looch

    So we’re hoping that Neal scores exactly 9 goals more than Lucic…

    …and that Neal goes crazy on assists!

  111. Bulging Twine says:

    jtblack: thanks for that. Learned something.

    I have never known it to be able to move up ….

    in my language, that would be called a “conditional 2nd round pick” …

    Anyway, I am pretty sure the Conditional 3rd is as high as the pick can be according to TEXMEX (Mark Spector)

    phew

  112. London Jon says:

    This is a very good trade

  113. rickithebear says:

    Lucic trade:
    Tried posting on other blog before it was closed.

    Of my 40+ theorems (data proven theories) that I have presented since 05-06. Like High danger area ( homeplate).
    I studied who competes for the 3 championships available each year. 90+% of the final 4 teams since 05-06 are are high% 3Forward-2Dmen-1goalie structure team.
    One of my theorem states: Off dmen abandon HD area and occupy a high % of forward structure area. Chl Scouts I have talked too say I am correct in calling them Rovers.

    Many NHL teams are moving to a 3fwd-1rover-1dman- goalie system.
    Before most teams that ran a 3-1-1-1 structure missed the playoffs.
    The oilers have run 3-2-1 structure 3 seasons from 05-06 till now.
    05-06 western conference champions.
    06-07 just missed playoffs.
    16-17 made 2nd round
    2 physical tackles of a goaltender interesting called good goals allowed them to lose that series.
    Without those calls The % of 3-2-1 structured teams in the final 4 would be higher.

    Milan lucic has played in a 3-2-1 dominate structured till the end of his 16-17 team in Edm.
    He has been a 21G 58P type player in his full 3-2-1 systems seasons. Including his Edm season were he was 23G 50P.

    In the 11 seasons Edmonton has run a 3-1-1-1 dominate team system they have missed the playoffs.
    The last 2 seasons Edm ran a 3-1-1-1 structure system.

    In my open/ Closed shot theory. Only shots targeted to open space in net (usually only 3-10 per team a game) have a chance of going in the net. With Edm running a 3-1-1-1 system Lucic has changed his targeting. He was an elite open shot shooter. He has has been shooting more closed shots. Resulting in brutal goal totals.

    Lucic is a 80gm 8G 27P forward in 3-1-1-1 system.

    The move might be good for him.
    But.
    Calgary is the worst 3-1-1-1 Def team in NHL.
    Allowing the most open shots per season since Kiprisoffs last 2 seasons in Calgary.

    I had not looked in to a fact based reason around targeting for Neal’s regression.
    I know when neal was with teams with championship core roster theorem dominate 3-2-1 teams like Vegas & NSH he was a 25G 45P player in 4 seasons.

    In Calgary,s 3-1-1-1 system neal was a 7G 19p player in 63gm.

    Interesting what the 2 aging forwards who have moved from 3-2-1 dominate teams to 3-1-1-1 variance has looked like.

    I should look at Brouwerfull seasons who moved from wish WSH/STL 3-2-1 to CGY 3-1-1-1 to Fld more 3-2-1 system.

    3 seasons WSH/STL
    82gm 12evg 30 Evp
    2 seasons Calgary
    75gm 6.5 evg 14evp
    FLD
    75 gm 11evg 20 evp

    So far my 3 aged samples show a regression when going from 3-2-1 which is a highly secured sample on looking at players who regressed. But if population most dominate factor is 3-2-1 move to 3-1-1-1 then we have something here.

    Brouwers rebound in a 3-1-1-1 move to 3-2-1 is interesting add to theorem.

  114. Buddy says:

    I don’t check Lowetide all day and this greets me!

    I live in Calgary, I’m going to go out on the street now and listen to the wailing and lamentation. And then come back inside and pour a libation to the god of Victory.

    Ken Holland, you magnificent bastard!

  115. leadfarmer says:

    Well that is a big accomplishment for Holland.
    I thought at best we would get Erickson

  116. leadfarmer says:

    I could see Lucic not waiving his NMC to Seattle now
    Haha suckers

  117. Reja says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    its a win win for both teams

    Lucic
    -Lucic has a more positive effect on his team’s ability to possess the puck
    -Lucic is better defensively
    -Lucic has a reputation for being big and scary, even if he does not actually fight very much
    -Lucic does lay a lot more hits than Neal
    -The trade gives the Flames $500K more cap space and a conditional 3rd round pick

    Neal
    -Neal is better at helping his team generate offensive chances
    -There is likely more potential upside for the Oilers because of the chance of a resurgent Neal
    -Neal has a much better penalty differential
    – Neal contract is better

    Sounds like Peters had a major hard- on for Neal maybe Neal can Marron us to the playoffs.

  118. Andy Dufresne says:

    texmex:
    Mark Spector

    Verified account

    @SportsnetSpec19s20 seconds ago
    More
    Two conditions have to be met for Oilers to send 3rd round pick to Calgary – James Neal has to record at least 21 goals and Lucic scores at least 10 fewer goals than Neal.

    Wow. That is some pretty detailed / fine line / hair spliiting negotiation.

    Very Happy to see Kenny is a grinder.

    Not just 20..but 21….AND must be 10 more than Looch 🙂

    Not !5% …not 13%…..12.5% 🙂

  119. OriginalPouzar says:

    Awesome:

    Mark Spector

    Verified account

    @SportsnetSpec
    28m28 minutes ago
    More
    Two conditions have to be met for Oilers to send 3rd round pick to Calgary – James Neal has to record at least 21 goals and Lucic scores at least 10 fewer goals than Neal.

  120. Andy Dufresne says:

    rickithebear:
    Lucic trade:
    Tried posting on other blog before it was closed.

    Of my 40+ theorems (data proven theories) that I have presented since 05-06.Like High danger area ( homeplate).
    I studied who competes for the 3 championships available each year. 90+% of the final 4 teams since 05-06 are are high% 3Forward-2Dmen-1goalie structure team.
    One of my theorem states: Off dmen abandon HD area and occupy a high % of forward structure area. Chl Scouts I have talked too say I am correct in calling them Rovers.

    Many NHL teams are moving to a 3fwd-1rover-1dman- goalie system.
    Before most teams that ran a 3-1-1-1 structure missed the playoffs.
    The oilers have run 3-2-1 structure 3 seasons from 05-06 till now.
    05-06 western conference champions.
    06-07 just missed playoffs.
    16-17 made 2nd round
    2 physical tackles of a goaltender interesting called good goals allowed them to lose that series.
    Without those calls The % of 3-2-1 structured teams in the final 4 would be higher.

    Milan lucic has played in a 3-2-1 dominate structured till the end of his 16-17 team in Edm.
    He has been a 21G 58P type player in his full 3-2-1 systems seasons. Including hisEdm season were he was 23G 50P.

    In the 11 seasons Edmonton has run a 3-1-1-1 dominate team system they have missed the playoffs.
    The last 2 seasons Edm ran a 3-1-1-1 structure system.

    In my open/ Closed shot theory. Only shots targeted to open space in net (usually only 3-10 per team a game) have a chance of going in the net. With Edm running a 3-1-1-1 system Lucic has changed his targeting. He was an elite open shot shooter. He has has been shooting more closed shots. Resulting in brutal goal totals.

    Lucic is a 80gm 8G 27P forward in 3-1-1-1 system.

    The move might be good for him.
    But.
    Calgary is the worst 3-1-1-1 Def team in NHL.
    Allowing the most open shots per season since Kiprisoffs last 2 seasons in Calgary.

    I had not looked in to a fact based reason around targeting for Neal’s regression.
    I know when neal was with teams with championship core roster theorem dominate 3-2-1 teams like Vegas & NSH he was a 25G 45P player in 4 seasons.

    In Calgary,s 3-1-1-1 system neal was a 7G 19p player in 63gm.

    Interesting what the 2 aging forwards who have moved from 3-2-1 dominate teams to 3-1-1-1 variance has looked like.

    I should look at Brouwerfull seasonswho moved from wish WSH/STL 3-2-1 to CGY 3-1-1-1 to Fld more 3-2-1 system.

    3 seasons WSH/STL
    82gm 12evg 30 Evp
    2 seasons Calgary
    75gm 6.5 evg 14evp
    FLD
    75 gm 11evg 20 evp

    So far my 3 aged samples show a regression when going from 3-2-1 which is a highly secured sample on looking at players who regressed. But if population most dominate factor is 3-2-1 move to 3-1-1-1 then we have something here.

    Brouwers rebound in a 3-1-1-1 move to 3-2-1 is interesting add to theorem.

    Ran this through Google Translate and Im still not sure.

    Just kidding Ricki. 🙂

  121. Andy Dufresne says:

    Buddy: I live in Calgary, I’m going to go out on the street now and listen to the wailing and lamentation. And then come back inside and pour a libation to the god of Victory.

    lol Awesome!

  122. Andy Dufresne says:

    Reja: Sounds like Peters had a major hard- on for Neal maybe Neal can Marron us to the playoffs.

    OR

    Maybe Neal AND Maroon can power us into the playoffs… 🙂

    Im going downstairs now to watch Flames Avs playoff series again ……. Mike Smith! 🙂

  123. Professor Q says:

    Buddy:
    I don’t check Lowetide all day and this greets me!

    I live in Calgary, I’m going to go out on the street now and listen to the wailing and lamentation. And then come back inside and pour a libation to the god of Victory.

    Ken Holland, you magnificent bastard!

    A conversation between Holland and McDavid, perhaps?

    “CONNER! What is best in life?”

    “To crush the Flames, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their fandom!”

  124. rickithebear says:

    A simplified look bears some merit.

    Now to increase sample size differentiating between the 3 type of advantage (PP,EV,PK) production.

    With Comp, team, ZS & 3-2-1/3-1-1-1 differentiation.

    A 3D (team, Comp, Zs) sample has already been established by me since 08-09.
    Which precluded going from binary to multivariable look reducing the terrible sample size affect in Binary analysis.

    The 3rd variable allows for regression to clear diffrent averages in larger count groups.

    Were as binary approach does not get enough seasonal data to redress to the necessary resolution per season to get a more complete differentiation of comp, team, ZS.

    So far based on Woodguys Puck IQ.
    Puck IQ is close to 3 times less resolution of which about .4 times (13.333%) is choice of DFF over corsi to shot range comparison.

    I do not know if their is a binary versus multivariable population/ data accuracy resolution affect theorem that exists.

    It is just something I have allways done in my brain.

    As I start to look at how awful binary analysis is thru results driven by varaible resolution it is becoming stunning.

    I also am starting to under stand that my brain used a multi level based matrix manipulation of data to visualize my results.
    A multi variable version of what seems like sage binary approach.

    Were, in all this theory, simple resultion of variable is the high affect factor.

    What I only recently understood is it is a multi level complex Boole multivariable matrix approach not a Bolean binary approach.

  125. Ryan says:

    leadfarmer:
    Well that is a big accomplishment for Holland.
    I thought at best we would get Erickson

    I’m going to have a beer. Then another…

  126. jp says:

    I can’t believe Holland was able to move Lucic. Incredible.

    Neal is a better bet to rebound. A better bet to fill a top 6 role. And if he can’t he can be bought out at reasonable terms. No lose situation.

    Massive move by Holland IMO.

  127. Andy Dufresne says:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

  128. Andy Dufresne says:

    Darren Haynes

    @DarrenWHaynes

    Should have seen this answer coming. Just chatted with Milan Lucic and I asked him if there was any Flames player, in particular, he’s excited to be teammates with. Naturally, he said Matthew Tkachuk. “He’s got that power forward in him.”

  129. Wolfpack says:

    So many times I read or heard that the Lucic contract could not be moved. Many suggested it would take 50% retention and / or including a 1st round pick AND a bad contract.

    I like Lucic as a person, I like his physical game, and I feel like he wanted things to work out in Edmonton, but he lost a step and the game just passed him by. We had a player being paid as a first liner who was contributing at a fourth line level, now we are rolling the dice on a similar situation. But all things considered, it is hard not to say that Holland did pretty well on this deal. Considering the player (Lucic) and the contract, this was a pretty good gamble in my opinion. Sure, Neal is another reclamation project, but I’d rather bet on that then bet on Lucic performing at a $6M/yr level.

    YMMV.

  130. Wolfpack says:

    Professor Q: A conversation between Holland and McDavid, perhaps?

    “CONNER! What is best in life?”

    “To crush the Flames, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their fandom!”

    Conner the Barbarian.

    Love it.

  131. ashley says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    He was a big part of the problem preventing the team from playing meaningful hockey. Now as a Flame he believes he is part of the solution? Man that’s arrogant.

  132. leadfarmer says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Darren Haynes

    @DarrenWHaynes

    Should have seen this answer coming. Just chatted with Milan Lucic and I asked him if there was any Flames player, in particular, he’s excited to be teammates with. Naturally, he said Matthew Tkachuk. “He’s got that power forward in him.”

    Hope Tkachuk can push him around the ice

  133. texmex says:

    Any truth to the rumor that Chiarelli was hired as AGM of the flames a few weeks ago?

    😂😜😂😜😂

  134. Ryan says:

    leadfarmer: Hope Tkachuk can push him around the ice

    I’ve been critical of Holland, but this is a masterstroke.

  135. jp says:

    ashley: He was a big part of the problem preventing the team from playing meaningful hockey.Now as a Flame he believes he is part of the solution?Man that’s arrogant.

    Yup. 6 goals and 20 points from your 3rd highest paid player is a big part of the problem.

    Those comments rub me the wrong way too.

  136. jp says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    ashley,

    Also interesting he mentioned an older captain.

  137. Professor Q says:

    jp:
    Andy Dufresne,

    ashley,

    Also interesting he mentioned an older captain.

    I really hate Giordano.

  138. jp says:

    Professor Q: I really hate Giordano.

    🙂

  139. jtblack says:

    jp:
    I can’t believe Holland was able to move Lucic. Incredible.

    Neal is a better bet to rebound. A better bet to fill a top 6 role. And if he can’t he can be bought out at reasonable terms. No lose situation.

    Massive move by Holland IMO.

    +1

  140. CMcD4PM says:

    Surely Connor must have pushed for this trade. He trains with James Neal at the Gary Roberts camp. And remember the 2018 All-Star game?

  141. HT Joe says:

    I no longer worry about Taylor Hall signing with the Flames next offseason. That’s a huge plus

  142. jp says:

    So about $1.5M left to sign a 3C (or re-sign Jesse/Jesse’s trade return).

    I still think Holland adds one of Boyle, Sheahan, Brassard or Lindberg.

    Assuming so I’d call that addressing all of the most glaring holes.

  143. jtblack says:

    PC destroyed the Oilers one little (& Big) move at a time.

    So far Ken is rebuilding one small move at a time.

    I LIKE

  144. jtblack says:

    The Oilers have $5 Million tied up in Buyouts and Lucic retention.

    #ThisIsUs

  145. Lowetide says:

    For The Athletic: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines

    https://theathletic.com/1086198/2019/07/19/oilers-acquisition-of-james-neal-could-add-badly-needed-scoring-to-the-top-two-lines/

  146. Jethro Tull says:

    Where were you when”the trade” happened?

  147. Gerta Rauss says:

    jtblack:
    The Oilers have $5 Million tied up in Buyouts and Lucic retention.

    #ThisIsUs

    And another $5M tied up in Gagner (Strome) and Manning (Cagiula)

    Man, that’s a kick in the coin purse

  148. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wait so if both portions of the condition don’t hit there is no draft pick not even a later one?

    This is unreal good!

  149. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Wait so if both portions of the condition don’t hit there is no draft pick not even a later one?

    This is unreal good!

    where did you get this info? capfriendly still doesnt mention the details of the conditional pick.

  150. Ryan says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Wait so if both portions of the condition don’t hit there is no draft pick not even a later one?

    This is unreal good!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7QU1nvuxaMA

  151. Gerta Rauss says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Wait so if both portions of the condition don’t hit there is no draft pick not even a later one?

    This is unreal good!

    I was wondering the same thing…someone mentioned a 4th round pick earlier in the thread but that was before the (actual) conditions were made public (ie: we were all still speculating at the time)

    With that said, I’ll gladly pay the 3rd if Neal scores 21

  152. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Wait so if both portions of the condition don’t hit there is no draft pick not even a later one?

    This is unreal good!

    I think OP is correct. Both conditions need to be met forba 3rd to exchange. Or else there is NO pick exchanged

  153. Lowetide says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Where were you when”the trade” happened?

    I was having lunch with Colin Ruttle at Fife n Dekel.

  154. Gerta Rauss says:

    Lowetide: I was having lunch with Colin Ruttle at Fife n Dekel.

    This is a Python sketch, no..?

  155. defmn says:

    jtblack: I think OP is correct. Both conditions need to be met forba 3rd to exchange. Or else there is NO pick exchanged

    That is the word on the street. 😉

    Mark Spector
    ‏Verified account @SportsnetSpec
    2h2 hours ago

    Two conditions have to be met for Oilers to send 3rd round pick to Calgary – James Neal has to record at least 21 goals and Lucic scores at least 10 fewer goals than Neal.

  156. leadfarmer says:

    But if we lose our 3rd rounder how are we supposed to draft our goalie of the future

  157. Professor Q says:

    Lowetide: I was having lunch with Colin Ruttle at Fife n Dekel.

    Well, there goes my dream of visiting the nice German restaurant, Pfeiffendeckel, that Lowetide always talked about on the radio, when I visit Edmonton for the first time.

  158. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    leadfarmer:
    But if we lose our 3rd rounder how are we supposed to draft our goalie of the future

    oilers will be forced to not pick a goalie!

    …ah who are we kidding… they’ll pick one in the 2nd round instead…#becauseoilers

  159. rickithebear says:

    Neal:
    Per nat stat
    4 seasons in NSH/VGK(3-2-1 sys) 85 evg
    Avg 73gm 21.25 evg
    1 season in CGY (3-1-1-1 sys) 6 evg
    63gm 6 evg.

    Either we acquired a 6.5M cap hit forward who will get 6-7 evg in 3-1-1-1
    Or
    With Tippett (3-2-1 preferred system)
    We play neal paired with RNH and potentially get a repetative 17-25 evg scoring winger.

  160. frjohnk says:

    Does Holland have some compromising pictures of Trevling?

    😲

  161. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lowetide: I was having lunch with Colin Ruttle at Fife n Dekel.

    I hope the sandwhich didnt have any horseradish on it. At your age, that could really ruttle your colin.

    What was the pie today? I live vicariously through you. 🙂

  162. deardylan says:

    Don’t be discouraged by a NMC. It’s often the last Looch in the bunch that unlocks the James.

  163. godot10 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Wow…a shot at McDavid.

    Chiarelli thought Lucic wanted to sit at the head of the table, when he really wanted to sit at the children’s table.

  164. godot10 says:

    jp:
    So about $1.5M left to sign a 3C (or re-sign Jesse/Jesse’s trade return).

    I still think Holland adds one of Boyle, Sheahan, Brassard or Lindberg.

    Assuming so I’d call that addressing all of the most glaring holes.

    I think he is waiting for a more significant player in for player out trade. He has enough bodies already. The four you mention will have to take PTO’s or wait till Holland and Tippett feel they are lacking in training camp.

  165. Andy Dufresne says:

    frjohnk:
    Does Holland have some compromising pictures of Trevling?

    Yes.

    It shows him wearing a Flames Jersey. And if thats not enough….

    Hes sitting at his desk and you can clearly see his 2016 draft list

    1) Jessie Puljujarvi
    2) Alex Nylander
    3) Jake Bean

  166. Professor Q says:

    godot10: Wow…a shot at McDavid.

    Chiarelli thought Lucic wanted to sit at the head of the table, when he really wanted to sit at the children’s table.

    And the team, of course.

    I wonder if he truly believes he wasn’t part of the problem of said 3 out of 4 years of not being in the playoffs? It would be interesting to see what his thoughts are when Calgary misses out this season.

  167. OmJo says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Sounds like there was trouble at the dinner table.

  168. Psyche says:

    On ‘Inside the Nation’ with Dustin Nielson, this afternoon, he mentioned that Lucic had yelled at Puljujarvi on occasion (on the Oilers bench after shifts). Nielson didn’t want to talk in-depth about these occurrences.

    Prior to this, I’ve never heard of any incidents between the 2 players. Has anyone else heard about this? I’m also curious why the local media didn’t reveal this earlier. It may help to explain the actions of Puljujarvi’s agent (if he believed Lucic was going to be an Oiler this fall).

  169. Andy Dufresne says:

    It still sticks out to me that Bob Stauffer was more than subtle in late May early June when he repeatedly over the course of 2 or 3 weeks, stated that there was a very good chance that 2 of the Oilers starting 6 Dmen would not be on the roster to start the 2019-20 season.

    Sekera and ?
    Is this how we get our 3rd line center?

  170. YKOil says:

    Great, great trade. Even if it doesn’t work out in terms of player results, great, great trade.

  171. texmex says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    It still sticks out to me that Bob Stauffer was more than subtle in late May early June when he repeatedly over the course of 2 or 3 weeks, stated that the was a very gfood chance that 2 of the Oilers starting 6 Dmen would not be on the roster to start the 2019-20 season.

    Sekera and ?

    Bob seems enjoy his inside knowledge. His last tweet

    So it is done.

    Players are always the first to know!😏

    James Neal will have a great opportunity to reclaim a top 6 NHL LW spot on a line with either McDavid, Draisaitl or RNH.

    My guess is the 10X 20+ goal scorer won’t shoot 5% again.

    What do u think of the deal?

    Perhaps there’s another move in the mix?

  172. OmJo says:

    Psyche:
    On ‘Inside the Nation’ with Dustin Nielson, this afternoon, he mentioned that Lucic had yelled at Puljujarvi on occasion (on the Oilers bench after shifts). Nielson didn’t want to talk in-depth about these occurrences.

    Prior to this, I’ve never heard of any incidents between the 2 players. Has anyone else heard about this? I’m also curious why the local media didn’t reveal this earlier. It may help to explain the actions of Puljujarvi’s agent (if he believed Lucic was going to be an Oiler this fall).

    I’ve been reading rumours that those two didn’t get along too well, but it was just rumours.

  173. Gerta Rauss says:

    godot10: I think he is waiting for a more significant player in for player out trade.He has enough bodies already.The four you mention will have to take PTO’s or wait till Holland and Tippett feel they are lacking in training camp.

    I hope you’re right…I’d be pleasantly surprised if he does bring in another forward in a trade

    He spent another $500k of what little cap space he has left- I could easily see him focusing on a 3C(either now or later on a PTO) and head to training camp with what he has (with or without JP)

  174. Buddy says:

    godot10: Wow…a shot at McDavid.

    Chiarelli thought Lucic wanted to sit at the head of the table, when he really wanted to sit at the children’s table.

    Looch #notaleader Sad

  175. Victoria Oil says:

    I like the trade but I thought (unless somehow this wouldn’t be permitted) that it could have been a better win-win for both sides if the Oilers retained 50% of Lucic and the Flames retained ~ 39% of Neal. This would have been financially equal to the actual 12.5%/0% retention but it would have more easily facilitated a subsequent trade by both teams to unload these contracts.

  176. Andy Dufresne says:

    jtblack:
    The Oilers have $5 Million tied up in Buyouts and Lucic retention.

    #ThisIsUs

    Thats dark on an otherwise sunny day.

    Its just dawning on me now,

    The J is for Joe. Joe Black……………from Meet Joe Black……

    You are death incarnate ! :

    (Put down the scicle, Im just messin with ya 🙂 Couldnt resist given the tone and the moniker.)

  177. OriginalPouzar says:

    As anticipated – he’s basically stating why he didn’t commit $4M on marginal top6 6 wingers this off-season.

    “I’m trying to work my way to where we have some flexibility to go out and get one or two people.”
    – Ken Holland to @DNBsports on the 2020 UFA period.

  178. Ryan says:

    frjohnk:
    Does Holland have some compromising pictures of Trevling?

    Treliving = schooled.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=waBb-UM5m4g

  179. jp says:

    godot10: I think he is waiting for a more significant player in for player out trade.He has enough bodies already.The four you mention will have to take PTO’s or wait till Holland and Tippett feel they are lacking in training camp.

    Yes, could be. Likely centering around the Puljujarvi return. But he doesn’t have much cash for any significant addition unless he can send Gagner or similar out.

    He’s also been very clear that he would add a 3C (strongly implying the likes of Gagner, Khaira, Granlund, Marody are not viewed as acceptable solutions). Hence my assumption that one of those guys will be added at some point.

  180. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide: I was having lunch with Colin Ruttle at Fife n Dekel.

    Of the Rutles? Awesome.

    I was playing gold and picking saskatoon berries for the homemade hooch. Good crop this year. Looks like choke cherries will be the same.

    Mrs. Tull has experimented with oaking of her wine. Not bad, but not great. It seems vanilla bean briefly introduced for a day in secondary fermentation gives the desired results.

    But remember; kill all yeast!

  181. Jethro Tull says:

    Would you rather:

    Lucic at $5.25M or Neal at $6.75M?

  182. jp says:

    OmJo: Sounds like there was trouble at the dinner table.

    The dinner table gets to be an uncomfortable place when you’re the teams 3rd highest player and you score 6 goals.

    And it’s impossible to sit at the head of the table when you’re not performing.

  183. Gerta Rauss says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Would you rather:

    Lucic at $5.25M or Neal at $6.75M?

    Neal

    He’ll be bought out next summer if he’s as bad as advertised ($2.7 ish for 3 years [I’m including the Lucic retention] and $1.9 ish for 3 years)

  184. Bulging Twine says:

    With shedding the NMC Holland may have saved losing a good player to Seattle or a high pick needed to secure Seattle’s agreement to take a lesser player – like in the deals done in the last expansion draft. If Lucic wouldn’t agree to make himself available to Seattle.

  185. oilersfan says:

    Jethro Tull,

    It will be Neal at $6.5 million not 6.75 because the 750 is being added to Neal’s 5.75 million not to Lucic’s 6 million

    Player for player I will take Neal but considering He has no NMC and can be bought out to save $3 million per year in one year I think the contract is much much better

  186. gogliano says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Would you rather:

    Lucic at $5.25M or Neal at $6.75M?

    I think the comparison is $5.25 v. $6.5 million (Neal’s $5.75 plus Lucic’s 750k).

    I’d rather have Neal, even apart from the better buyout terms and the extra expansion draft slot netted by shipping out a NTC. Lucic has been going downhill too long to expect it was an aberration, Neal might pot 20 this year.

  187. leadfarmer says:

    OmJo,

    Sounds like a guy that will not waive to go to Seattle

  188. slopitch says:

    You gotta wonder if the oilers are thinking of adding Maroon and moving Drai to RW.

    Bring in JP Pageau?

    Move Russell?

    Trade JP.

    If the over under on the Oilers remaining moves this summer was 1.5, what would u take? Id bet over.

  189. Gerta Rauss says:

    slopitch:
    You gotta wonder if the oilers are thinking of adding Maroon and moving Drai to RW.

    Bring in JP Pageau?

    Move Russell?

    Trade JP.

    If the over under on the Oilers remaining moves this summer was 1.5, what would u take? Id bet over.

    I’d forgotten about Maroon..I could see that happening if the price is right

    I’d love Pageau but money is tight…Kenny would have to pull another rabbit out of the hat

  190. jp says:

    Victoria Oil:
    I like the trade but I thought (unless somehow this wouldn’t be permitted) that it could have been a better win-win for both sides if the Oilers retained 50% of Lucic and the Flames retained ~ 39% of Neal. This would have been financially equal to the actual 12.5%/0% retention but it would have more easily facilitated a subsequent trade by both teams to unload these contracts.

    What that would not facilitate is a Neal buyout by the Oilers. It’s a very real possibility and would cost $1.9M X 6 yrs if it happens next summer.

    Neal was every bit as bad as Lucic last season. I hope rebounds, but if he doesn’t get all the way back to 20+ goals and 40+ points a buyout is probably the best route forward.

  191. OriginalPouzar says:

    Perfect game alert in Seattle – through 8.

  192. Andy Dufresne says:

    jp: The dinner table gets to be an uncomfortable place when you’re the teams 3rd highest player and you score 6 goals.

    And it’s impossible to sit at the head of the table when you’re not performing.

    Is that you Jesse??

  193. jp says:

    Gerta Rauss: Neal

    He’ll be bought out next summer if he’s as bad as advertised ($2.7 ish for 3 years and $1.9 ish for 3 years)

    Agreed.

    But according to CapFriendly it’s $1,916,667 for all 6 yrs.

  194. jp says:

    Andy Dufresne: Is that you Jesse??

    Hey I was JP 20 odd years before Jesse was. I was posting here before he was drafted as well 🙂

  195. Gerta Rauss says:

    jp: Agreed.

    But according to CapFriendly it’s $1,916,667 for all 6 yrs.

    Lol…I was just editing my original post for clarity…

    I was including the Lucic retention in the calculation. It’s not part of the buyout of course, but it has to be figured into the decision making process. The 750k retention will fall off in the last 3 years of the buyout

  196. rickithebear says:

    I looked at the top Edmonton Oilers even goal scorers since the lockout 05-06.
    14 seasons ago. Only included those with first line evg rates by position.
    C 15-16 evg
    LW 15 evg
    RW 14 evg
    Minimum 48gm includes 12-13

    I ranked them by even goal mass.( totals)
    Not per game cause missed games is a performance issue.
    But with equal totals, I ranked the best per gm player first.
    If that was the same than the most recent season.
    1 – Mcdavid 17-18 82gm 35 evg
    2 – Mcdavid 18-19 78gm 31 evg
    3 – Draisaitl 18-19 82gm 31 evg
    4 – Mcdavid 16-17 82gm 26 evg
    5 – Eberle 11-12 78gm 24 evg
    6 – Maroon 16-17 81gm 24 evg
    7 – Penner 09-10 82gm 23 evg
    8 – RNH 14-15 76gm 22evg
    9 – Hall 15-16 82gm 22evg
    10 – Torres 05-06 82gm 21 evg
    11 – Hall 13-14 75gm 20 evg
    12 – Eberle 13-14 80 gm 20 evg
    13 – Hemsky 08-09 72gm 19 evg
    14 – Perron 13-14 78gm 19 evg
    15 – RNH 18-19 82gm 19 evg
    16 – Draisaitl 16-17 82gm 19 evg
    17- RNH 17-18 62gm 18 evg
    18 – Eberle 15-16 69gm 18 evg
    19 – Eberle 14-15 81gm 18 evg
    20 – Smyth 06-07 53gm 16 evg
    21 – Draisaitl 17-18 78gm 16 evg
    22 – Horcoff 05-06 79gm 16 evg
    23 – Eberle 16-17 82gm 16 evg
    24 – Sykora 05-06 82gm 16 evg
    25 – Horcoff 07-08 53gm 15 evg
    26 – RNH 11-12 62gm 15 evg
    27 – Brûle 09-10 65gm 15 evg
    28 – Smyth 05-06 75gm 15 evg
    29 – Jones 10-11 81gm 15 evg
    30 – Smyth 11-12 82gm 15 evg
    31 – Cogliano 07-08 82gm 15 evg
    32 – Penner 10-11 62gm 14 evg
    33 – Kassian 18-19 79 gm 14 evg

    The number seasons for top past & current oilers.
    Eberle 5 of 7 seasons
    RNH 4 of 8 seasons
    Mcdavid 3 of 4 seasons
    Draisaitl 3 of 4 seasons
    Smyth 3 of 5 seasons – remember since 05-06
    Penner 2 of 4 seasons
    Hall 2 of 6 seasons
    Horcoff 2 of 8 seasons
    Kassian 1 of 3 seasons
    Hall & Kassians 1 of every 3 seasons was surprising.

    RNH – Kassian pair over last 3 seasons has yeilded one of RNH best combined evg/60 forward pairs.

    I will never forgive PC for trading one of the most consistent EVg scorers in the game. Eberle.

    The above unquestionable fact based list was provided by NHL.com/stats

    Per Nat stat.
    Neal since 05-06
    08-09 77gm 15 evg
    09-10 78gm 24 evg
    10-11 79gm 17 17evg
    11-12 80gm 20 evg
    13-14 59gm 16 evg
    14-15 67gm 20evg
    15-16 82gm 27 evg
    16-17 70 gm 18 evg
    17-18 71gm 20 evg
    9 of 10 48+ gm seasons.
    With tippet likely switching to a more dominate 3-2-1 system.
    Their hopefully is a comfort level for what might be one the 5 most prolific evg fwds on the team.
    Mcdavid, Draisaitl, Neal, Eberle, RNH.

    You want your center to be a top EVG scorer while being the critical pass distributed on a line.
    Kassian was a 1st line evg scoring RW.
    One of the 33 fwd occurrences since 05-06.
    Chaisson just missed with 13 evg this year.

    We also have granlund who had
    16 evg RW season in 16-17
    10 evg RW season this year. Clear 2 Nd line.

    Archibald was 12 evg this season.

    Draisaitl – Mcdavid – Kassian/ Chaisson
    Neal – RNH – Granlund/ Kassian
    Archibald/jurco – xxx /Granlund – Gagner

  197. jp says:

    slopitch:
    You gotta wonder if the oilers are thinking of adding Maroon and moving Drai to RW.

    Bring in JP Pageau?

    Move Russell?

    Trade JP.

    If the over under on the Oilers remaining moves this summer was 1.5, what would u take? Id bet over.

    Maroon would be a good add for sure. I think I’d put him with Nuge (they were good together too) and leave McDavid’s line intact.

    Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
    Maroon-Nuge-Neal

    We might be calling Holland the magic man.

    It would open a lot if he could find a taker for Russell. I’d assume a cheaper vet D would be brought in then – 4 NHL D and a bunch of kids could go off the rails pretty quickly due to injury. Kronwall, Phaneuf, Hutton? There’s a few still out there that could handle the 4/5 slot I think.

    But Russell out and a D under $2M in would open up enough for a JP for JP+ trade (since Pageau is only 1 yr from UFA).

  198. jp says:

    Gerta Rauss: Lol…I was just editing my original post for clarity…

    I was including the Lucic retention in the calculation. It’s not part of the buyout of course, but it has to be figured into the decision making process. The 750k retention will fall off in the last 3 years of the buyout

    Ha! Fair enough, and I was actually going to add in the part about the Lucic retention to my post as well but got lazy. So yeah, effectively $2.7 X 3 and then $1.9 X 3.

    Those are still ugly numbers to be looking at, but I’m just tickled with this deal.

  199. Andy Dufresne says:

    400

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