A BRAND NEW DAY

Yesterday I wrote the following: “Holland needs a third-line center and a scoring winger. He isn’t done. Right?” and a few hours later the Edmonton Oilers had a sniper. What’s more, the secondary pieces of the trade are completely reasonable and Holland dealt away a monstrosity of a contract plus helped the coming expansion draft list. Oilers fans, after years of experiencing acid reflux after trades, weren’t quite sure what to do as we headed to press.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • New Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • New Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • New Kent Wilson and Lowetide: Why the Flames and Oilers would (and wouldn’t) trade Sam Bennett for Jesse Puljujarvi
  • New Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • New Jonathan Willis: What the Oilers’ 2020 cap situation suggests about Ken Holland’s master plan.
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: With free agency all but over, Oilers’ Ken Holland has tough work ahead on the trade front
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: The Oilers have a new amateur scouting director. What can we learn from Tyler Wright’s track record at the draft?
  • Lowetide: The Oilers are finally recovering from the wayward 2014 Draft
  • Lowetide: Projecting Darnell Nurse’s next contract and possible trades
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A missing mom, aching feet and looking for Kevin Lowe: A week in the life of Oilers prospect Raphael Lavoie
  • Lowetide: What to do when Connor McDavid rests: The Oilers’ ideal No. 2 line for 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Adding a scorer will be Ken Holland’s first big move as Oilers GM
  • Jonathan Willis: How often do goalies like the Oilers’ Mike Smith rebound?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘He comes as advertised’: Philip Broberg’s skating makes him development camp standout for Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers plan to skew younger on defence could open the door for Evan Bouchard, Dmitri Samorukov
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

PROJECTED FORWARDS ROSTER 2019-20

The roster has far more clarity now than yesterday. Neal should be the fourth best offensive forward on the roster in 2019-20, and should easily lead the team in total shots. What is reasonable? I can tell you that my RE estimate (before allowing for deployment) is 68, 16-15-31. Intuitively, that seems low, but last season was a major elevator shaft. Now, about that No. 3 center.

HOLLAND’S BIGGEST TRADE SINCE..

This is a big trade for Holland, likely the biggest summer trade involving players on each side since the Dominik Hasek trade in June 2001 (it cost Detroit Vyacheslav Kozlov and a first).

CAP SITUATION

Edmonton now has 23 players at a total cost (all in) of $79,066,999 according to CapFriendly. That leaves $2.4 million in room, with Holland stating he likes to have $1.5 million in walking around money and another $1 million for the Smith bonus. Meaning the team is done. I wondered if they could grab Riley Sheahan but he’d have to come in around $1 million.

50-MAN LIST (50)

There are two slides (Broberg and goalie Rodrigue) plus Jesse Puljujarvi remains unsigned. Edmonton could add a player but I think it would be a JP trade at this point. Sam Bennett and Joel Eriksson Ek have been discussed over recent weeks as options, but at this point money’s too tight to mention.

THE TRUTH

Offloading the Milan Lucic contract isn’t a small thing, in actual fact it is THE thing in this trade. If one fell swoop (underused phrase these days) Ken Holland bought freedom for his future Oilers teams. There are still issues, and the price on freedom came at a cost, but getting out from under the Lucic contract is a major part of this summer’s business.

Trades: 1 (Lucic for Neal)

Buyouts: 1 (Sekera)

Draft picks trades: 1 (conditional)

Free agents signed: 7 (Logan Day, Joakim Nygard, Alex Chiasson, Markus Granlund, Mike Smith, Tomas Jurco, Josh Archibald)

Roster players extended: (5) Joe Gambardella, Brad Malone, Shane Starrett, Patrick Russell, Jujhar Khaira

Exiting the system, goodbye: (12) Braden Christoffer, Colin Larkin, Tobias Rieder, Ty Rattie, Anthony Stolarz, Alex Petrovic, Ryan Stanton, Robin Norell, Mitch Callahan, Tyler Vesel, Al Montoya, Kevin Gravel.

We’ll chat about Holland’s summer in the coming days, but for me yesterday’s trade is a massive positive. In fact, the only move this summer that rivals it (imo) was the hiring of Dave Tippett as coach. Freedom! That Lucic contract was a giant hockey albatross, making this a brand new day.

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275 Responses to "A BRAND NEW DAY"

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  1. Matticus says:

    Battle of Alberta will be interesting now.

  2. Mikeoes says:

    I’ve noticed that Lucic isn’t as hard on his old teams he played for.

  3. alberta bound edmonton says:

    What a coup for Holland. Did not think that Lucic could be moved
    A bright sunny morning in Edmonton

  4. digger50 says:

    Moved Lucic and kept Jessie P. That’s excellent.

    I actually do not think Holland and Gretz are done yet. There will still be opportunities to improve.

  5. Darryl8843 says:

    Lucic is a class guy and great teammate by all counts for that he will be missed.
    Also he’s the type of player you need in the playoffs . That said we were not going to the playoffs with him on the roster. This for the Oilers is a huge win today and tomorrow for many reasons. Welcome James Neal.

  6. geowal says:

    If we compare this to the other move that was floated – Lucic for Ericsson – this is a much better outcome, no? There’s a role Neal has a chance to fill and the contract is better. Yes?

  7. geowal says:

    One of the more anticipated Lowetide posts in the past little while I’d say! Whoo!

  8. Rondo says:

    Hopefully Neal won’t be a cancer in the locker room. Not a well liked player.

    Objectively speaking this is a win for the Oilers, however Calgary traded him for a reason, and 1 bad season was not the reason.

  9. leadfarmer says:

    How did Holland convince a competing GM that if he completely fleeced him on the trade he would give up only a 3rd rounder
    Although I don’t think Neal spends his entire contract here
    We got rid of Lucic and within a year we can get rid of the whole thing for under 3 mil

  10. Mr DeBakey says:

    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins must be the happiest man in Canada this morning.

    James Neal has 37 5v5 goals over the past 3 seasons, the same as Richard Panik and Micheal Ferland.

  11. JamesL says:

    geowal,

    Past little while? This is the most anticipated post of the past three years!

  12. leadfarmer says:

    geowal:
    If we compare this to the other move that was floated – Lucic for Ericsson – this is a much better outcome, no? There’s a role Neal has a chance to fill and the contract is better. Yes?

    Erickson is older and has a signing bonus heavy contract that is hard to buy out
    This is far better
    We couldn’t buy out Lucic we can buy out Neal

  13. JamesL says:

    Question: If Neal succeeds this year — let’s say the definition of “success” is that he meets the conditions triggering the trade of the 3rd — do you think his contract would be tradeable by the Oilers with minimal sweeteners added and/or cap space coming back in return?

    Or perhaps the better play is just retaining him and allowing him to be exposed at the next expansion draft?

  14. treevojo says:

    Holland is a goddamn genius.

    Aside from Lucic winning the hart trophy.

    There is zero downside in this trade.

  15. Side says:

    Darryl8843:
    Lucic is a class guy and great teammate by all countsfor that he will be missed.
    Also he’s the type of player you need in the playoffs . That said we were not going to the playoffs with him on the roster. This for the Oilers is a huge win today and tomorrow for many reasons. Welcome James Neal.

    After what Lucic was saying yesterday, I wonder about how good a teammate he was:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Shout out to whoever compiled these quotes in yesterday’s thread.

  16. frjohnk says:

    Side: After what Lucic was saying yesterday, I wonder about how good a teammate he was:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    From what I have heard about Lucic, I think it is less a shot at the Oilers and more of a plug for the Flames.

  17. frjohnk says:

    Turning a deadweight, albatross, buyout proof contract into a bad contract that can be bought out with way less pain by only costing a conditional pick and $750k in cap space over 4 years?

    Bravo Kenny

  18. Jaxon says:

    Side: After what Lucic was saying yesterday, I wonder about how good a teammate he was:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Shout out to whoever compiled these quotes in yesterday’s thread.

    Was that a slight against McDavid?

  19. Side says:

    frjohnk: From what I have heard about Lucic, I think it is less a shot at the Oilers and more of a plug for the Flames.

    Probably could have done that without taking a shot at McDavid’s age or by pretending he wasn’t a large reason as to why the Oilers could not play significant hockey each night though, no?

  20. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Maybe we see this:

    Neal-CMD-Kassian
    Nygard-Drai-Chiasson
    Jar-RNH-Pool
    Holland-acquisition-collection

    – And If Benson can play with skill he gets a crack

    – A 20 + goal scorer legit playing with CMD helps a lot

    – It’s funny how we get another teams piece of crap for our piece of crap and we all dare to dream.

  21. frjohnk says:

    Jaxon: Was that a slight against McDavid?

    One could think that by looking at the comments, but I dont think Lucic said that to dump on McDavid. Just praising Gio.

  22. Andy Dufresne says:

    Prior to his bad season in Calgary, I’ve always liked James Neal. In fact I liked him alot with Pittsburgh and especiallly with Nashville. The guy was a legitimate threat to score from inside the hash marks and in close. He is big, has good hands, and plays with an edge.

    He’s kind of Corey Perry light IMO. He’s the same size as Perry, 3 years younger than Perry and is not quite as nasty. He scored at a rate close to Perry (10-15% less career wise), with about half the penalty minutes.

    And he was pretty impressive with the Golden Knights two seasons ago. 25 goals and 44 pts on a VERY fast team.

  23. Durag says:

    frjohnk:
    Turning a deadweight, albatross, buyout proof contract into a bad contract that can be bought out with way less pain by only costing a conditional pick and $750k in cap space over 4 years?

    Bravo Kenny

    And while it is a bad contract, it is at least a bad contract that fills a need.

    I’m getting to work on the Holland statue.

  24. Andy Dufresne says:

    This is gonna sound like hyperbole, but we may look back at this one day as the deal that rid us of the Lucic contract and allowed us to move forward in actualizing the potential of the gift that is the McDavid Mulligan.

    Remember this day. Friday July 19, 2019.

  25. Andy Dufresne says:

    The Oilers currently have 21 Non Roster players who are on ELC’s and who are all Waivers Exempt. That must be a record for this organization. No?

  26. ashley says:

    I read his comments something like:

    “The only reason I sucked the last few years was because I was playing with young, bad players with a young captain whose leadership skills are not well developed. The games were meaningless, so I didn’t try as hard as usual.

    On the Flames, I will be playing with older players who are actually good so I will return to my dominating performance last seen with the Boston Bruins where I led them to a Stanley Cup just like I can do for the Flames.”

    Pride with a pinch of insecurity.

    Also arrogant and lacking insight.

  27. blackadder says:

    treevojo,

    That’s pretty much the key to this trade. Even if the James Neal that arrives in Edmonton is the same one that stunk out the joint in Calgary, because there is so much more flexibility with his contract the Oilers aren’t welded to him in the same way they were to Lucic.

    Getting rid of the contract was essential. Doing so without having to sacrifice significant assets to accomplish it is huge.

  28. frjohnk says:

    Durag: I’m getting to work on the Holland statue.

    Like LT said, there is a price to pay for the freedom from the mess that Chia created.

    Early days but Kenny is a nice breath of fresh air

  29. Psyche says:

    It’s a beautiful day to wake up to, as an Oilers fan.

    My perfect day would include Allan Mitchell (a.k.a. ‘Lowetide’) interviewing Ken Holland in a fireside chat. I imagine the conversation would include scouting, drafting, and infamous players from the 1970’s. It would be a magical two hours!

    Enjoy this wonderful July weekend fellow Oiler fans!

  30. Jaxon says:

    Does anyone see an outside chance of Lavoie making the team? It’s very rare for a 19 year old not drafted in the first half of the first round, but it has happened. David Perron did it. And Lavoie’s improved play since the new year port him in very elite company. I’m going to love training camp and preseason this year! It will be exciting to watch Lavoie, Broberg, Maksimov, Samorukov, Jones, Benson, Marody, Yamamoto, Bear, Persson, Bouchard, Lagesson, Benning, Neal, Jurco, Archibald, Granlund, Nygard, Haas, and even Gagner and Kassian and all the goalies and see how the line up against the core and who fits where and how long everyone sticks. So many interesting potentials to watch for. I can’t wait!

  31. Side says:

    frjohnk: Like LT said, there is a price to pay for the freedom from the mess that Chia created.

    Early days but Kenny is a nice breath of fresh air

    It’s nice how Holland even worked in a conditioned pick with 2 layers of criteria.

    I wonder how Chiarelli would have handled it. Lucic + JP + 2nd round unconditional pick?

  32. Jaxon says:

    frjohnk: One could think that by looking at the comments, but I dont think Lucic said that to dump on McDavid.Just praising Gio.

    But why mention his age? That’s a weird detail to praise in juxtaposition with his former young captain. He could have just mentioned how good Gio is as a player, not his age.

  33. frjohnk says:

    Jaxon: Does anyone see an outside chance of Lavoie making the team?

    That would go over well on this site.

  34. Jaxon says:

    frjohnk: That would go over well on this site.

    Haha, I would love it. Some heads would explode!

  35. treevojo says:

    Side: Probably could have done that without taking a shot at McDavid’s age or by pretending he wasn’t a large reason as to why the Oilers could not play significant hockey each night though, no?

    Yup.

    The appropriate answer would have been to thank Mr. Katz for paying him an absurd amount of money for underperforming his contract. To then thank Calgary for taking a chance on him going to a team that finished first in the west without his services and hoping that his style of play will help them take the next step in the playoffs where he believes his style of play will translate to more production.

  36. Side says:

    treevojo: Yup.

    The appropriate answer would have been to thank Mr. Katz for paying him an absurd amount of money for underperforming his contract.To then thank Calgary for taking a chance on him going to a team that finished first in the west without his services and hoping that his style of play will help them take the next step in the playoffs where he believes his style of play will translate to more production.

    Exactly. For a man with years of public speaking under his belt and the benefit of having an agent, his response certainly comes across as kinda childish and petty.

    “I would have played better if my team was better”

    Not exactly exemplifying leadership qualities there.

  37. Pouzar says:

    Training camp is going to be fascinating this year.

  38. Jethro Tull says:

    I’ll give Kenny credit for this. But one should note that Lucic’s retained salary should be lumped in with Neal’s should he be bought out.

    It gives the Oilers the best player in the trade since goodness knows when, and a contract much more tradable to a cap floor team in the future.

    So, credit where credit is due.

    When does Calgary unveil Chia as “Special Advisor”?

  39. Andy Dufresne says:

    Jaxon:
    Does anyone see an outside chance of Lavoie making the team? It’s very rare for a 19 year old not drafted in the first half of the first round, but it has happened. David Perron did it. And Lavoie’s improved play since the new year port him in very elite company. I’m going to love training camp and preseason this year! It will be exciting to watch Lavoie, Broberg, Maksimov, Samorukov, Jones, Benson, Marody, Yamamoto, Bear, Persson, Bouchard, Lagesson, Benning, Neal, Jurco, Archibald, Granlund, Nygard, Haas, and even Gagner and Kassian and all the goalies and see how the line up against the core and who fits where and how long everyone sticks. So many interesting potentials to watch for. I can’t wait!

    Raphael is one of the 7 archangles. Get him alongside McDiety and Miracles could happen !

    The other 6 archangles are Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, Selaphiel, Raguel,, and Barachiel.

    Are there any Selaphiel’s or Barachiel’s in the 2020 entry draft?

  40. Jethro Tull says:

    Can’t wait for Tippett to match McDavid against Lucic every opportunity at next year’s home games.

  41. Jethro Tull says:

    Andy Dufresne: Raphael is one of the 7 archangles. Get him alongside McDiety and Miracles could happen !

    The other 6 archangles areMichael, Gabriel, Uriel, Selaphiel, Raguel,, and Barachiel.

    Are there any Selaphiel’s or Barachiel’s in the 2020 entry draft?

    What about Aziraphale? That would be Good Omens should we draft one of those!

  42. Professor Q says:

    Andy Dufresne: Raphael is one of the 7 archangles. Get him alongside McDiety and Miracles could happen !

    The other 6 archangles areMichael, Gabriel, Uriel, Selaphiel, Raguel,, and Barachiel.

    Are there any Selaphiel’s or Barachiel’s in the 2020 entry draft?

    How about Leonard, Donatello, and Michelangelo?

  43. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Side: After what Lucic was saying yesterday, I wonder about how good a teammate he was:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Shout out to whoever compiled these quotes in yesterday’s thread.

    I was just about to post exactly this! Given those remarks and now – admittedly rumors – the rumbling that Lucia and JP were at odds – exactly how much of a “character guy” was Lucic, at least here?

    For much of his time in Edmonton he appeared uninterested, unhappy and miserable, so maybe we are getting rid of more than just an egregious contract.

    And last, nowhere does the “Neal is a cancer in the room” come from? Saw this posted above. Is this known? Maybe it’s a case of both Neal and Lucic being in the “wrong rooms”.

  44. Andy Dufresne says:

    treevojo: Yup.

    The appropriate answer would have been to thank Mr. Katz for paying him an absurd amount of money for underperforming his contract.To then thank Calgary for taking a chance on him going to a team that finished first in the west without his services and hoping that his style of play will help them take the next step in the playoffs where he believes his style of play will translate to more production.

    True,

    But by doing things the way he has, Lucic has added to the drama that is the battle of Alberta.

    We love our heros and our villains in professional sports.

    Cant wait to see McDavid and Draisiatl line up against the evil Loooch !

    Comon Tippett. Make it happen !

  45. defmn says:

    Interesting take on the trade from Leavins who appears to have had info all along about Lucic’s bonus that turned out to be accurate. Can’t know for sure but things do line up pretty well.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

  46. Professor Q says:

    ashley:
    I read his comments something like:

    “The only reason I sucked the last few years was because I was playing with young, bad players with a young captain whose leadership skills are not well developed.The games were meaningless, so I didn’t try as hard as usual.

    On the Flames, I will be playing with older players who are actually good so I will return to my dominating performance last seen with the Boston Bruins where I led them to a Stanley Cup just like I can do for the Flames.”

    Pride with a pinch of insecurity.

    Also arrogant and lacking insight.

    And he gets to wear #17 again. That scrub Kurri didn’t deserve it and Lucic is likely still perturbed about that.

  47. Andy Dufresne says:

    Professor Q: How about Leonard, Donatello, and Michelangelo?

    Thought about them. But they all turtled in recent fights. So no.

  48. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Side: It’s nice how Holland even worked in a conditioned pick with 2 layers of criteria.

    I wonder how Chiarelli would have handled it. Lucic + JP + 2nd round unconditional pick?

    And then immediately reupping Neal with full NMC/NTC!

  49. Andy Dufresne says:

    Jethro Tull: What about Aziraphale? That would be Good Omens should we draft one of those!

    Thought about him. But the dudes got a British accent. So no. lol.

  50. Professor Q says:

    I also think the great praise for Giordano as a player and Captain, when the last time he saw him he took out McDavid (who apparently isn’t Lucic’s fancy) with a cheap shot, is particularly irksome.

  51. leadfarmer says:

    ashley,

    It takes serious effort to not try for 82 games a year

  52. Professor Q says:

    Andy Dufresne: Thought about them. But they all turtled in recent fights. So no.

    Yeah but that was Cricket, so it’s understandable. They’re better at Hockey and Baseball. Ask Casey Jones.

  53. OriginalPouzar says:

    I still can’t believe what a trade Holland made yesterday.

    Even if Neal isn’t really any better than last year, given the buyout structure (even with the $750K retained) and the lack of a NMC, expansion draft risk, the trade is a huge win. No draft pick in that case.

    The condition for the 3rd rounder is unreal – if that vests then the trade is a huge win – even if not worth his cap hit, 21 plus goals from a new player in replacement of Lucic would be huge for this team.

    The flames saddled with one of the worse player in the leauge is just a huge plus.

  54. leadfarmer says:

    So I was on a team with a very young captain without matured leadership skills and as a league veteran I decided to not give a rats ass.
    Too bad we couldn’t keep this guy

  55. Woogie63 says:

    I am more cautious on Neal than some here.

    Last year I went to 20ish Flames games, Neal was very quite most nights.

    This big scoring winger is now on his 6th NHL team.

    We have two twenty year olds going to University in Calgary we hear lots of James Neal sightings.

    Brad Treliving doesn’t make many mistakes.

  56. OriginalPouzar says:

    If there is anything to the dressing room issues with Jesse and this helps get Jesse under contract, another huge bonus.

    Not to mention his statement re: older captain – something was amiss in the room.

  57. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    If there is anything to the dressing room issues with Jesse and this helps get Jesse under contract, another huge bonus.

    Not to mention his statement re: older captain – something was amiss in the room.

    Sounds like, doesn’t it?

  58. pts2pndr says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Maybe we see this:

    Neal-CMD-Kassian
    Nygard-Drai-Chiasson
    Jar-RNH-Pool
    Holland-acquisition-collection

    – And If Benson can play with skill he gets a crack

    – A 20 + goal scorer legit playing with CMD helps a lot

    – It’s funny how we get another teams piece of crap for our piece of crap and we all dare to dream.

    Do you ever see the glass half full. Asking for a friend.

  59. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Woogie63:
    I am more cautious on Neal than some here.

    Last year I went to 20ish Flames games, Neal was very quite most nights.

    This big scoring winger is now on his 6th NHL team.

    We have two twenty year olds going to University in Calgary we hear lots of James Neal sightings.

    Brad Treliving doesn’t make many mistakes.

    The real net effect of this trade is getting out from one of the worst contracts for a declining asset whose subsequent comments post trade make it probable that his value as a player on the Oilers was a significant negative, possibly in more ways than one.

    So even if Neal spends most of his time wandering up and down Whyte Avenue, it’s still a win if they can offload him easier with less long term pain.

  60. Professor Q says:

    Walter Gretzkys Neighbour: The real net effect of this trade is getting out from one of the worst contracts for a declining asset whose subsequent comments post trade make it probable that his value as a player on the Oilers was a significant negative, possibly in more ways than one.

    So even if Neal spends most of his time wandering up and down Whyte Avenue, it’s still a win if they can offload him easier with less long term pain.

    I saw the All-Star Game photo of Neal alongside McDavid and they were both laughing and having a great time.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/EdmontonOilers/comments/cfg7qn/mcdavid_neal_when_they_found_out_they_are_now/

    I hope that’s what’s in store for the Oilers. Including Cup success.

  61. Andy Dufresne says:

    Edmonton was the first team that Lucic has played for where he was considered a failure.

    He’s definitetly gonna “up his game” against us.

    He’s got December 27th circled on his calander.
    .
    .

    * by up his game I mean play 12 minutes instead of 11 and take 2 needless penalties instead of just 1

  62. treevojo says:

    Woogie63:
    I am more cautious on Neal than some here.

    Last year I went to 20ish Flames games, Neal was very quite most nights.

    This big scoring winger is now on his 6th NHL team.

    We have two twenty year olds going to University in Calgary we hear lots of James Neal sightings.

    Brad Treliving doesn’t make many mistakes.

    For all I care

    Neal could show up to training camp with a massive beer belly and two hookers on his side, remain drunk for the whole season, hit the post twice and score as many goals as Toby did and this trade is still a win by a landslide.

  63. Andy Dufresne says:

    pts2pndr: Do you ever see the glass half full. Asking for a friend.

    Answer: Half full of piss, half full of vinegar.

    That is, full of piss and vinegar. 🙂

  64. McNuge93 says:

    Woogie63:
    I am more cautious on Neal than some here.

    Last year I went to 20ish Flames games, Neal was very quite most nights.

    This big scoring winger is now on his 6th NHL team.

    We have two twenty year olds going to University in Calgary we hear lots of James Neal sightings.

    Brad Treliving doesn’t make many mistakes.

    You may be right but maybe he commits to putting 100% into his career. Surely he sees the writing on the wall if he doesn’t perform here; a buyout and a contract like Corey Perry after that. Not a great way to wind down a career. Who knows, but having an unhappy Looch on our roster was a detriment as well.

    For the Oilers at least now they will have a viable buyout option if necessary.

  65. Oil2Oilers says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Agreed, Puljujarvi of all the emerging Oilers has the best chance of being a legit top 6 winger this season. I hope it is with the Oilers.

    Replace Chiason’s spot in the top 6 on any of the proposed line ups with Jessie and the team looks way better.

    Also, Benson, who I have hoped to see in the NHL since he was 15 might have to wait a few more months. I am OK with this. I hope he is having a fantastic healthy summer making great strides with Pelletier. Dominating the AHL on what should be a very good team would be a fine way to start the season.

  66. tcho says:

    I don’t really understand why so many people seem so happy about this. We traded our disappointing/overpaid player for theirs, and we took on a higher cap hit to do so. Neal might bounce back. He might not.I get that we don’t have to protect him in the expansion – that’s a win. What am I missing?

  67. Professor Q says:

    I just saw the Pisani clip again. Damn those memories.

    We don’t just need a New Pisani, but a New Peca, too. That would be 2/3rds of a great line.

  68. Professor Q says:

    tcho:
    I don’t really understand why so many people seem so happy about this. We traded our disappointing/overpaid player for theirs, and we took on a higher cap hit to do so. Neal might bounce back. He might not.I get that we don’t have to protect him in the expansion – that’s a win. What am I missing?

    You should read the comments and find out.

  69. Psyche says:

    I think Neal’s friendship with McDavid will help to keep him busy in a positive and constructive way. McDavid and Draisaitl live and breathe hockey. My feeling is this will positively influence Neal. Additionally, he should have a chip on his shoulder this season.

    I also suspect Tippett will be a better coach for Neal than was Peters.

    Sometimes, a difficult and humbling season can lead a person to reflection, self-analysis, and action. I am optimistic this is what we can expect.

    Ken Holland and Archie Henderson have both spoken about adding players who bring energy and competitiveness on a consistent basis. This will be the environment surrounding Neal (and all the Oilers).

  70. Woogie63 says:

    treevojo: For all I care

    Neal could show up to training camp with a massive beer belly and two hookers on his side, remain drunk for the whole season, hit the post twice and score as many goals as Toby did and this trade is still a win by a landslide.

    I know you are stretching to make a point.

    But at some point, we add some players that contribute to winning.

    If it was easy to unload Neal, why didn’t Treliving do that he needs about $5M if cap space to resign his RFAs?

  71. Andy Dufresne says:

    Oil2Oilers:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Agreed, Puljujarvi of all the emerging Oilers has the best chance of being a legit too 6 winger this season. I hope it is with the Oilers.

    Replace Chiason’s spot in the top 6 on any of the proposed line ups and the team looks way better.

    Also, Benson, who I have hoped to see in the NHL since he was 15 might have to wait a few more months. I am OK with this. I hope he is having a fantastic healthy summer making great strides with Pelletier. Dominating the AHL on what should be a very good team would be a fine way to start the season.

    Agree with all of this.

    The interesting question is, given the precarious nature of the JP situation, do you still make him earn his spot in the top 6 ( beat out Chaisson) or do you “gift” him the spot because it’s make it or break it time. Boom or Bust, All or Nothing.

    Tippet isnt the type to “gift” ice time. Is Holland the type to ask his Coach to do so??? (for the greater good)

  72. jeetz says:

    With a 1st line of McDavid and Draisaitl at 19-20 min per night, we have a legit scoring threat in a second line with RNH and Neal at 16-17 min a night.

    Impressive. I am not worried at all about Neal’s last year in Calgary. He was run down at the start of the year and wasn’t used properly by the Flames. Everything I have read shows a more committed and focused player this summer already. I am willing to bet Neal out scores Eberle this year coming up.

    This is going to be a different year because the Oilers will actually be a threat to score without McD on the ice.

    I am happy today. Holland’s team already has a different feel from any other year.

  73. Dr. Taboggan says:

    tcho,

    Cheaper buyout on Neal.

    But honestly the trade is not that bad for the flames. I feel like there are many teams dumb enough to trade for Lucic at 2.75m.

  74. Paulie says:

    Walter Gretzkys Neighbour: Sounds like, doesn’t it?

    Back in 2017-18 I believe, Lucic criticized the PK for being so ineffective (sorry, don’t have link). I always thought a good teammate and alleged team leader shouldn’t be saying this publicly esp. since Lucic took more penalties than he drew and couldn’t PK himself. Great guy.

  75. Andy Dufresne says:

    Professor Q: You should read the comments and find out.

    lol. Whoaa there big fella…. 🙂

  76. bwar says:

    Why are we penciling Neal onto the top line? He’s a shiny new toy but he was 15th on the Flames in goals last year. Hathaway tied him for points and I’m pretty confident that if he had been the return we wouldn’t be placing him on the top line. Maybe Neal gets his mojo back but I don’t think you should be holding your breath waiting.

    The trade is a win for Edmonton, not going to question that for a second. I just don’t think that Neal is a legit top 6 option any longer.

  77. dcsj says:

    Something I read yesterday implied that this trade was in the works for a while and yesterday Calgary decided to go for it. Couple that with the rumours of bad blood between Neal and his coach and I think they were determined to get rid of him, but the Lucic deal was all they could get.

    Otherwise, why do a deal that seems a clear win for the Oilers?

  78. Dr. Taboggan says:

    I think expectations for Neal should be low. 30ish points and a buyout next summer. Anything more would be gravy.

  79. Andy Dufresne says:

    Psyche:
    I think Neal’s friendship with McDavid will help to keep him busy in a positive and constructive way. McDavid and Draisaitl live and breathe hockey. My feeling is this will positively influence Neal. Additionally, he should have a chip on his shoulder this season.

    I also suspect Tippett will be a better coach for Neal than was Peters.

    Sometimes, a difficult and humbling season can lead a person to reflection, self-analysis, and action. I am optimistic this is what we can expect.

    Ken Holland and Archie Henderson have both spoken about adding players who bring energy and competitiveness on a consistent basis. This will be the environment surrounding Neal (and all the Oilers).

    +1 Nice.

  80. Side says:

    Paulie: Back in 2017-18 I believe, Lucic criticized the PK for being so ineffective (sorry, don’t have link). I always thought a good teammate and alleged team leader shouldn’t be saying this publicly esp. since Lucic took more penalties than he drew and couldn’t PK himself. Great guy.

    It seems like Lucic comes from the Ference school of leadership:

    Lesson 1, when you are brought in to fill a major role in your team and things don’t go your way, blame the players who were better than you.

  81. Psyche says:

    Woogie63,

    Treliving isn’t infallible. He’s been chasing the prototypical power forward for awhile now. Like Chiarelli (and other NHL GM’s), Treliving still keeps up the hope that players like Lucic can succeed in the NHL.

    See: Troy Brouwer (https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/calgary-flames-waive-troy-brouwer-in-cautionary-tale)

  82. Woogie63 says:

    With Manning and Brodziak in the AHL- Jones on the NHL club.

    I have a 22 man roster and $3.863 cap space and Jesse to solve.

    There is room for Jesse to come back

    There is room for Jesse to be traded for Buchnevich and still achieve Holland’s starting cap number.

  83. Andy Dufresne says:

    bwar: Why are we penciling Neal onto the top line?

    Hopefully we’re not.

    We’ve got what could be the top line in all of hockey with Draisaitl McDavid and Kassian.

    Talented Duo combined with a Trio of good chemistry (including a guy that can both keep up with the pace of play and will face wash the Kadris and Tkachuks of the world)

    Dont mess with success.

    Draisailt McDavid Kassian
    XXX RNH Neal

    2 5×5 Units
    2 PP Units.
    2 Overtiume Units

  84. Professor Q says:

    Andy Dufresne: lol. Whoaa there big fella….

    No no, I didn’t mean to be rude. So I apologize for being short and a bit of that.

    But their comment essentially read as “I read the comments but still don’t see what they’re actually saying.”

    Many of the comments today and yesterday have mentioned the buyout potential (if Neal doesn’t bounce back, which I believe he has more potential to than Lucic despite being older) and that the deal was good in terms of no NMC being present, so exposure to the Seattle Draft is a possibility.

    Then we have the Lucic comments on the trade and it seems like Edmonton may have actually had more issues in the culture and locker room than we thought, with an entitled and deluded Lucic who was supposed to be a leader and head of culture change. I’m excited for a new Alternate Captain.

  85. Woogie63 says:

    Psyche,

    Fair Point

  86. Pouzar says:

    One day most here will understand quality of teammate matters.

  87. Andy Dufresne says:

    Professor Q,

    I getcha and gotcha. I was just chuckling at the fact that you posted what I was thinking as well. ( In a non mean spirited way.)

  88. bwar says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    The Neal-RNH-Chiasson line will strike fear in the heart of our opponents.

  89. Leonnor McDraivid says:

    Ken Holland is the man. The trade he pulled off yesterday was more intelligent and creative than any other trade I’ve seen this off-season. He managed to get rid of an albatross of a contract for the next four years without giving up a first round pick. As well, he managed to fill a major hole on his team with the trade. I think that the biggest positive of this trade is that the Oilers do not have to protect Lucic in the next expansion draft, which allows them to protect the player they truly want to keep.

  90. Andy Dufresne says:

    Psyche: Treliving isn’t infallible. He’s been chasing the prototypical power forward for awhile now.

    AND,

    If Im not mistaken, Bill Peters is an Old School coach who wanted more toughness on his roster in Carolina.

    The Lames also got pushed around in this years playoffs.

  91. Andy Dufresne says:

    Woogie63:
    With Manning and Brodziak in the AHL- Jones on the NHL club.

    I have a 22 man roster and $3.863 cap space and Jesse to solve.

    There is room for Jesse to come back

    There is room for Jesse to be traded for Buchnevich and still achieve Holland’s starting cap number.

    Very good point.

    But would just add that Hollands stated goal is a 3rd line center.

  92. LMHF#1 says:

    Adam Benning LT?

    On a serious note – that D group is still looking absolutely putrid. They need to ship out quantity and get some quality there.

  93. Pescador says:

    treevojo: For all I care

    Neal could show up to training camp with a massive beer belly and two hookers on his side, remain drunk for the whole season, hit the post twice and score as many goals as Toby did and this trade is still a win by a landslide.

    And I can keep his “friends” company while he’s on the ice so that way they’re not a distraction
    I like to help

  94. Andy Dufresne says:

    bwar:
    Andy Dufresne,

    The Neal-RNH-Chiasson line will strike fear in the heart of our opponents.

    They wont be facing elite checkers. The elite checkers (or elites) will be put out against the McDavid line.

  95. blainer says:

    Just checked in late last night to see a real live miracle performed. Holland just turned sooo many doubters around on his performance in the offseason in one … ONE .. transaction. Amazing!!

    The way Is see this now through Jesse’s eyes is this is NOT the same team anymore and also with a new coach and GM who is now proving capable of doing a good job of trying to compete.

    These moves may just entice him to change his mind and return for another year. Hope he is working his ass off over the summer.

    Great work Holland !!

  96. treevojo says:

    Woogie63: I know you are stretching to make a point.

    But at some point, we add some players that contribute to winning.

    If it was easy to unload Neal, why didn’t Treliving do that he needs about $5M if cap space to resign his RFAs?

    I will start by saying I was an optimist with the Lucic signing and was quite happy after his first season.

    The past two seasons were gross.

    He couldn’t take or make a pass.

    He had zero interest in fighting.

    He looked to be a mental drag on the whole team with what I perceived to be constant sulking.

    He had zero confidence. Shattered.

    I believed until yesterday there was no way of getting rid of his contract without crippling the team.

    For these reasons it matters zero to me what Neal brings because anything is a bonus and if nothing his contract is gone with a smaller amount of pain then I could have ever imagined.

  97. godot10 says:

    leadfarmer:
    How did Holland convince a competing GM that if he completely fleeced him on the trade he would give up only a 3rd rounder
    Although I don’t think Neal spends his entire contract here
    We got rid of Lucic and within a year we can get rid of the whole thing for under 3 mil

    Holland didn’t. The Washington Capitals and St. Louis Blues winning the last two Cups, and the Avalanche pushing the Flames around in the playoffs did.

    The deal may work out well for Calgary. The expectations on Lucic will be minimal. Veteran leadership already on the team. No requirement to provide offense. An assistant coach he knows well from Boston. An older team.

    Part of Lucic’s problem in Edmonton is that he was a fish out of water, an older guy who didn’t know how to communicate with a bunch of younger guys.

    Calgary has guys who can cycle and hold the puck long enough for Lucic to eventually arrive at the scene of the action. They also have a D that can move the puck effectively.

    His aging can be hidden way better in Calgary.

  98. treevojo says:

    Pescador: And I can keep his “friends” company while he’s on the ice so that way they’re not a distraction
    I like to help

    Your a team player.

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jordan:
    Bad contract for bad contract.I can live with this.

    I hope Neal can be be a good setup man next year for Nuge.Last thing I want is for the Oilers to have to cough up that 3rd next year.

    I really hope they don’t play him with McD – That would be beyond foolish, IMO.

    Regardless of performance, it looks like another smart bet.

    You don’t want 21 plus goals from Neal next year?

    I’ll gladly give up a 3rd round pick if Holland acquired a 20 plus goal score in exchange for Lucic with less than $1M retained.

    That is the biggest win of all wins!

    Think about it – Milan Lucic was disposed of with only $750K and a 3rd round pick – that’s money in the bank right there – add the acquisition of a 21 plus goal scorer – my goodness, hall of fame type value trade.

  100. Woogie63 says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    If he gets Buchnevich, his 3C could be RNH?

  101. Side says:

    Pouzar:
    One day most here will understand quality of teammate matters.

    I am curious as to what you mean by this and how it relates to this thread in particular.

  102. Andy Dufresne says:

    Leonnor McDraivid:
    Ken Holland is the man. The trade he pulled off yesterday was more intelligent and creative than any other trade I’ve seen this off-season. He managed to get rid of an albatross of a contract for the next four years without giving up a first round pick. As well, he managed to fill a major hole on his team with the trade. I think that the biggest positive of this trade is that the Oilers do not have to protect Lucic in the next expansion draft, which allows them to protect the player they truly want to keep.

    LOVE the fact that Kenny is a grinder

    Trade Conditon: not 20 goals, 21 goals. Not just 21 goals but 10 more goals than Lucic.
    Salary Retension: Not 15%. Not 13%…..12.5% (Chia rounded up; Kenny rounds down)

    And he found a dance partner…..in his own division. 🙂

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    Rondo:
    Hopefully Neal won’t be a cancer in the locker room. Not a well liked player.

    Objectively speaking this is a win for the Oilers, however Calgary traded him for a reason, and 1 bad season was not the reason.

    From accounts, he knows McDavid well, they’ve trained together and get along.

    From Milan’s statement re: “looking forward to an older captain”, maybe there was something amiss with Lucic in the locker room?

    This could be a net plus for the locker room and that may be a big damn deal.

  104. Lowetide says:

    LMHF#1:
    Adam Benning LT?

    On a serious note – that D group is still looking absolutely putrid. They need to ship out quantity and get some quality there.

    Bah! No more working after midnight.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    frjohnk:
    Turning a deadweight, albatross, buyout proof contract into a bad contract that can be bought out with way less pain by only costing a conditional pick and $750k in cap space over 4 years?

    Bravo Kenny

    Not to mention, if the conditional pick vests, which is only a 3rd rounder, that means (1) Lucic with less than $1M retained a 3rd rounder was disposed of (which is great on its own) AND a 21 plus goal scorer was acquired and (2) they likely don’t want to buy out the contract and could likely even trade it.

  106. Soup Fascist says:

    Woogie63:
    I am more cautious on Neal than some here.

    Last year I went to 20ish Flames games, Neal was very quite most nights.

    This big scoring winger is now on his 6th NHL team.

    We have two twenty year olds going to University in Calgary we hear lots of James Neal sightings.

    Brad Treliving doesn’t make many mistakes.

    An NHL player seen at bars and clubs frequented by young people?

    Unheard of.

  107. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    If there is anything to the dressing room issues with Jesse and this helps get Jesse under contract, another huge bonus.

    Not to mention his statement re: older captain – something was amiss in the room.

    I keep hearing this mentioned, that JP had an issue with Lucic? Where did this come from? I must have missed it

  108. Andy Dufresne says:

    Lowetide: Bah! No more working after midnight.

    No Fife n Dekel after 9pm !

  109. Side says:

    So far the Oilers have had cancers in the locker room (Hall, “young guys”) ,and they have also had “good leaders” and “good locker room guys” (hendricks, ference, lucic, etc.) And the result has been the same. They still lose.

    Either Nugent-Hopkins is the biggest cancer the league has ever seen, or maybe, just maybe, the Oilers just have had shitty teams and need people who can actually play hockey well.

  110. Andy Dufresne says:

    OriginalPouzar: Not to mention, if the conditional pick vests, which is only a 3rd rounder, that means (1) Lucic with less than $1M retained a 3rd rounder was disposed of (which is great on its own) AND a 21 plus goal scorer was acquired and (2) they likely don’t want to buy out the contract and could likely even trade it.

    AND, if he regains his form as a 21+ goal scorer, chances are, probability wise, that he does so for more than one year.

    If Neil can be 21+ for even 2 seasons, he becomes tradable and/or the buyout becomes more palatable.

  111. godot10 says:

    ashley:
    I read his comments something like:

    “The only reason I sucked the last few years was because I was playing with young, bad players with a young captain whose leadership skills are not well developed.The games were meaningless, so I didn’t try as hard as usual.

    On the Flames, I will be playing with older players who are actually good so I will return to my dominating performance last seen with the Boston Bruins where I led them to a Stanley Cup just like I can do for the Flames.”

    Pride with a pinch of insecurity.

    Also arrogant and lacking insight.

    I think Lucic might have a touch of Asperger’s. Which would explain a lot.

  112. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I feel the weight of the world is off my shoulders now😜

  113. JamesL says:

    GMB3,

    I guess one of the local radio dudes made a brief and oblique mention of Lucic yelling at JP after a few shifts.

    Not a lot of detail or meat but everyone is running absolutely wild with it.

  114. godot10 says:

    Jaxon:
    Does anyone see an outside chance of Lavoie making the team? It’s very rare for a 19 year old not drafted in the first half of the first round, but it has happened. David Perron did it. And Lavoie’s improved play since the new year port him in very elite company. I’m going to love training camp and preseason this year! It will be exciting to watch Lavoie, Broberg, Maksimov, Samorukov, Jones, Benson, Marody, Yamamoto, Bear, Persson, Bouchard, Lagesson, Benning, Neal, Jurco, Archibald, Granlund, Nygard, Haas, and even Gagner and Kassian and all the goalies and see how the line up against the core and who fits where and how long everyone sticks. So many interesting potentials to watch for. I can’t wait!

    Don’t do it. Quit doing the OIlery things of the past. Send Lavoie back to junior for one more year. He will be on a good CHL team. He will get to play at the World Juniors.

    Don’t give him nine games.

    Why do I have to do this every year. Yamamoto, Bouichard…. Just don’t do it. Don’t even think about doing it.

    99% of the time. It is the wrong thing to do.

  115. Pescador says:

    Andy Dufresne: Hopefully we’re not.

    We’ve got what could be the top line in all of hockey with DraisaitlMcDavid and Kassian.

    Talented Duo combined with a Trio of good chemistry (including a guy that can both keep up with the pace of play and will face wash the Kadris and Tkachuks of the world)

    Dont mess with success.

    Draisailt McDavid Kassian
    XXX RNHNeal

    2 5×5 Units
    2 PP Units.
    2 Overtiume Units

    Benson RNH Neal
    By the time Xmas rolls around
    Benson could be the XXX factor

  116. Glass says:

    GMB3,

    I don’t know if he had a personal issue with Lucic, but he played a lot of minutes with Lucic and they were lousy together.

  117. Georgexs says:

    Treliving cut bait pretty quick on Neal, a guy he signed just a year ago.

    I don’t think they need 5v5 P/60 from Lucic. They certainly didn’t get it from Neal.

    Given the circumstances, Treliving made his team better.

    I wonder if they get that 3rd from us…

  118. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Darryl8843:
    Lucic is a class guy and great teammate by all countsfor that he will be missed.
    Also he’s the type of player you need in the playoffs . That said we were not going to the playoffs with him on the roster. This for the Oilers is a huge win today and tomorrow for many reasons. Welcome James Neal.

    I’m sorry but I disagree. Lucic is not the type of player you need to win in the playoffs, not anymore anyway. He hasn’t been intimidating in 2+ years. He’s way behind the play, he’s rarely in position for a hard hit. He also barely fights, there have been lots of examples of him being on the ice when our skill guys are getting pushed around and him walking away. He’s older than his years, he can barely move his neck. The only downside to losing him for Neal is that there is a much better chance of LTIR for him over the last couple years of his deal.

    I know the fancy suggested he still had value in some ways, but man does the eye test disagree. He’s broken.

    The protectors of the skill guys over the last few years have been Kassian and Khaira up front. Kassian was also, in my view, better than Lucic in the playoffs a few years back.

  119. Pescador says:

    Andy Dufresne: AND, if he regains his form as a 21+ goal scorer, chances are, probability wise, that he does so for more than one year.

    If Neil can be 21+ for even 2 seasons, he becomes tradable and/or the buyout becomes more palatable.

    Prediction:
    Oilets clinch a playoff spot & Neal scores his 20th goal in the second to last game of the season.
    Tippett sits out JN for the final game citing “load management”
    Lucic scores 8 goals, Flames miss the playoffs, Treliving is fired, people cry
    Boom 4th round pick

  120. LMHF#1 says:

    Lowetide: Bah! No more working after midnight.

    I hear ya.

    I’ve had a couple 20hr days lately that resulted in plenty of “me fail English” moments…

  121. texmex says:

    Pescador: Prediction:
    Oilets clinch a playoff spot & Neal scores his 20th goal in the second to last game of the season.
    Tippett sits out JN for the final game citing “load management”
    Lucic scores 8 goals, Flames miss the playoffs, Treliving is fired, people cry
    Boom 4th round pick

    Boom – no draft pick!!!

    If the conditions aren’t meet, oilers do not the flames any picks.

    Even better

  122. Munny says:

    So Milan goes to Minsk. Nice.

    Looch is better defensively than Neal, obviously more physical, but getting a true RH trigger for the PP is absolutely key to our structure. They may even have him play point like he did from time to time in PITT and NASH.

    And with the word that Neal has spent the summer working out with hockey’s Izzy Mandelbaum, there’s a lot of hope he can return to a semblance of his former self. Comforting too that Neal wanted to come here and is good buds with The Almighty.

    Regardless of the play on the ice though, getting a contract that CAN be bought out or included in the expansion draft, is HUGE.

    New Holland Construction — The Right Tool for the Right Job.

    ___________________

    Edit: As JOFA points out, Neal is a leftie, so please read NH’s tag line as “The Left Tool for the Left Job” lol.

  123. OmJo says:

    defmn:
    Interesting take on the trade from Leavins who appears to have had info all along about Lucic’s bonus that turned out to be accurate. Can’t know for sure but things do line up pretty well.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    I posted earlier this month how NBA free agency was more entertaining than NHL free agency, and how more control to the players made that possible.

    Going off that article, it seemed like McDavid was part of the trade process? Neal specifically wanted to come to Edmonton and the two have been training together. Just a coincidence, right? And ofc Lucic had to waive his NMC.

    Maybe McDavid can do the same with his former roommate if he hits the FA market?

  124. Munny says:

    Pescador: Benson RNH Neal

    That’s the way I see it too. Benson a pure passer. Neal a pure shooter. Nuge a pure skater. Perfect line if Benson can hack major league comp.

  125. Fuhr and Lowething. says:

    Question:

    If Lucic were to retire would we get screwed like Vancouvet did with Luongo?

  126. OmJo says:

    Walter Gretzkys Neighbour: And then immediately reupping Neal with full NMC/NTC!

    Just imagine Chiarelli buying out Neal then re-signing him to a 6×6 with full NMC/NTC.

    Cue the audience laughter as the camera zooms in to Bob Nicholson, tilting his head to the side and putting his hands on his hips, a goofy smile on his face while saying “Golly Peter, you did it again, didn’t ya?”

  127. JOFA says:

    Munny:
    So Milan goes to Minsk. Nice.

    Looch is better defensively than Neal, obviously more physical, but getting a true RH trigger for the PP is absolutely huge for our structure.They may even have him play point like he did from time to time in PITT and NASH.

    And with the word that Neal has spent the summer working out with hockey’s Izzy Mandelbaum, there’s a lot of hope he can return to a semblance of his former self.Comforting too that Neal wanted to come here and is good buds with The Almighty.

    Regardless of the play on the ice though, getting a contract that CAN be bought out or included in the expansion draft, is HUGE.

    New Holland Construction — The Right Tool for the Right Job.

    I believe he’s a lefty, but I see what you’re saying.

  128. godot10 says:

    tcho:
    I don’t really understand why so many people seem so happy about this. We traded our disappointing/overpaid player for theirs, and we took on a higher cap hit to do so. Neal might bounce back. He might not.I get that we don’t have to protect him in the expansion – that’s a win. What am I missing?

    In the worst case scenario, the Oilers got rid of Lucic without surrendering a material asset, and recover about $3 million in cap space out of the six in the three seasons following this one.

    The trade is roughly equivalent to trading Lucic with 50% retained and a 3rd round draft pick for nothing in return.

  129. Professor Q says:

    Fuhr and Lowething.:
    Question:

    If Lucic were to retire would we get screwed like Vancouvet did with Luongo?

    I think I was worried about that yesterday but read that it was only applying to older contracts under the 1st CBA, that were long and back filled or whatever. I don’t think his is long enough nor takes him to an old enough age, nor decreases at the right rate.

  130. Hamez says:

    Side: After what Lucic was saying yesterday, I wonder about how good a teammate he was:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Shout out to whoever compiled these quotes in yesterday’s thread.

    I think what bothers me the most about these quotes is that I was hopeful Lucic would be the leader he describes he needs. He has compared his time with the Oilers a few times saying how great he had it in Boston under Chara and that really helped his game. I would think with that kind of mentorship and his age, he had a real opportunity to be our version of Chara here. Yet amid all the rumours of wanting out, he comes off more as a pouty child that is much more a follower than an actual leader in the dressing room.

  131. Munny says:

    JOFA: I believe he’s a lefty, but I see what you’re saying.

    Dammit! You’re right. Well that explains why I remember him on the Pittsburgh PP left point, lol. Thought there was some chocolate in that there babka of a trade, but I will settle for cinammon.

  132. Pescador says:

    texmex: Boom – no draft pick!!!

    If the conditions aren’t meet, oilers do not the flames any picks.

    Even better

    Holy shit this is amazing!
    That’s it, I’m going to the liquor store

  133. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Side: After what Lucic was saying yesterday, I wonder about how good a teammate he was:

    From Lucic

    “In order for me to move on from Edmonton it was important to go to a contending team, a team that was playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis,” he emphasizes. “Throughout my career that’s brought out the best in me and in my game.

    “This is a bit more of an older team, with an older captain, which I had in Boston with Zdeno (Chara). Gio is coming off his best year, winning the Norris Trophy – and deservedly so. That’s a great starting point for any team.

    “Missing the playoffs three of the last four years … I don’t want to do that anymore. As I said, I want to be playing meaningful hockey on a night-to-night basis and with the excitement and energy I can bring I think this will revitalize me and help this team take the next step.”

    Shout out to whoever compiled these quotes in yesterday’s thread.

    I lost a lot of respect for Lucic the past few years.
    Not only for his underwhelming play and not sticking up for teammates but also for his gutless slash to the ankles of some undersized kings player and not taking time to work on his diminishing skilled (like puck control)…but mostly for the hot fucking air coming out of his mouth

    He does not walk the talk
    Enjoy Flames fans!

  134. Georgexs says:

    You had a poll yesterday about the Oilers as a lottery team if Holland was mostly finished with the roster. I was going to post but then the trade came down.

    I like Tippett. I listened to his press conference. Upbeat guy who seems to have insight into what it means to be responsible for other people’s performance. I checked out his record and his rosters. He’s had to find a way to win hockey games with not a lot of talent. He’ll be the first “actual NHL player” coach for the Oilers since MacT. Those guys tend to do OK. I like that after making the playoffs in 8 of his first 9 seasons, he failed to make the playoffs in his next 5. Harder for him to defend poor results by pointing to past success. He’ll have to work for it like the average bloke. I like that he’s been out of the league for 2 years. Time to reflect on how rare and valuable head coaching opportunities really are. I like that he was given 3 years instead of a bloated please do us a favor contract like we gave McLellan and the Leafs gave Babcock.

    I think the team makes the playoffs. (I thought that yesterday too.)

  135. Andy Dufresne says:

    Glass:
    GMB3,

    I don’t know if he had a personal issue with Lucic, but he played a lot of minutes with Lucic and they were lousy together.

    According to sources, the teams top players didnt enjoy playing with JP. JP was not in the right places at the right times etc.

    I would assume that if the elite talent didnt want him on their line(s) and thought him an inconvenience, DESPERATE Lucic who was under water /drowning / fighthing for his life would have hated having to play with JP.

  136. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: Bah! No more working after midnight.

    I don’t think it was the working after midnight. I think it was the celebratory beverages.

  137. defmn says:

    godot10: Holland didn’t.The Washington Capitals and St. Louis Blues winning the last two Cups, and the Avalanche pushing the Flames around in the playoffs did.

    The deal may work out well for Calgary.The expectations on Lucic will be minimal.Veteran leadership already on the team. No requirement to provide offense.An assistant coach he knows well from Boston.An older team.

    Part of Lucic’s problem in Edmonton is that he was a fish out of water, an older guy who didn’t know how to communicate with a bunch of younger guys.

    Calgary has guys who can cycle and hold the puck long enough for Lucic to eventually arrive at the scene of the action.They also have a D that can move the puck effectively.

    His aging can be hidden way better in Calgary.

    I see the trade much the same way but would add that this is also a “take advantage of a cap strapped team” trade. I know it doesn’t look as clear as some of the ones earlier in the season but Calgary lost Hathaway and really had no budget to replace the toughhess given the RFA situation.

    I think some are forgetting that the Flames finished first in the conference with exactly the same drag on production and cap that Edmonton dealt with last year and has been blamed by many for the Oilers not being better. Calgary has been through a season paying $5.75 for fourth line production and won. From their perspective they got tougher and picked up .5 mil cap space.

    This is a trade that made so much sense for both sides even being division rivals couldn’t derail it.

  138. Andy Dufresne says:
  139. Andy Dufresne says:

    Pescador,
    No fourth. Condition is not a 4th
    Condition is a 3rd or NO PICK AT ALL. 🙂

    #kennysagrinder

  140. Pescador says:

    Hamez: I think what bothers me the most about these quotes is that I was hopeful Lucic would be the leader he describes he needs.He has compared his time with the Oilers a few times saying how great he had it in Boston under Chara and that really helped his game.I would think with that kind of mentorship and his age, he had a real opportunity to be our version of Chara here.Yet amid all the rumours of wanting out, he comes off more as a pouty child that is much more a follower than an actual leader in the dressing room.

    Bah
    I say ignore the words, wait for the pucks to drop & let your play do the talking.
    In terms of impacting the outcome, Lucic hasn’t had alot to say in the last 3 years.
    I don’t see it improving anytime soon,
    Better?

  141. Pescador says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    Pescador,
    No fourth.NO PICK AT ALL.

    Awesome, see above…Pssshhct!
    *folds back tab*

  142. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jaxon:

    Does anyone see an outside chance of Lavoie making the team? It’s very rare for a 19 year old not drafted in the first half of the first round, but it has happened. David Perron did it. And Lavoie’s improved play since the new year port him in very elite company. I’m going to love training camp and preseason this year! It will be exciting to watch Lavoie, Broberg, Maksimov, Samorukov, Jones, Benson, Marody, Yamamoto, Bear, Persson, Bouchard, Lagesson, Benning, Neal, Jurco, Archibald, Granlund, Nygard, Haas, and even Gagner and Kassian and all the goalies and see how the line up against the core and who fits where and how long everyone sticks. So many interesting potentials to watch for. I can’t wait!

    I see about a 0.0001% chance of Lavoie making the team.

    He has a great shot and some nice skill to go with his size. I saw him make some unreal skilled plays with speed for Halifax. At the same time, from accounts, he has plenty to work on as it relates to using his size, battling, decision making and consistency.

    I would think the likes of McLeod and Maksimov, both of whom are turning pro and have more advanced 2-way games (in particular Maksimov who also has an NHL ready shot/release) would have a greater chance and I put their chances at 0.000201%.

  143. OmJo says:

    bwar: He’s a shiny new toy but he was 15th on the Flames in goals last year.

    He was tied for 7th on the Oilers (with Caggiula) last year.

  144. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull:
    Can’t wait for Tippett to match McDavid against Lucic every opportunity at next year’s home games.

    As much as Lucic was a black hole offensively and looked awful all over the ice (with an inability to even transition the puck up the ice with time), he did show to be quite responsible as his possession numbers and goal share numbers were positive across the board, generally – I assume that means that, while no goals for are scored while he’s on the ice, not many goals against are scored either?

    With that said, one would think McDavid (and the rest of the hockey world) should be able to take advantage of Lucic on the ice.

  145. Fuhr and Lowething. says:

    Professor Q: I think I was worried about that yesterdaybut read that it was only applying to older contracts under the 1st CBA, that were long and back filled or whatever. I don’t think his is long enough nor takes him to an old enough age, nor decreases at the right rate.

    Awesome, thank you!

  146. OmJo says:

    Side:
    So far the Oilers have had cancers in the locker room (Hall, “young guys”) ,and they have also had “good leaders” and “good locker room guys” (hendricks, ference, lucic, etc.) And the result has been the same. They still lose.

    Either Nugent-Hopkins is the biggest cancer the league has ever seen, or maybe, just maybe, the Oilers just have had shitty teams and need people who can actually play hockey well.

    I think it’s much more likely that the innocent baby-face look is just a ploy, Nuge is the mastermind behind all of the Oilers troubles. He corrupts everybody that enters that locker room – it’s all pretty obvious by now.

  147. Hamez says:

    OmJo: I posted earlier this month how NBA free agency was more entertaining than NHL free agency, and how more control to the players made that possible.

    Going off that article, it seemed like McDavid was part of the trade process? Neal specifically wanted to come to Edmonton and the two have been training together. Just a coincidence, right? And ofc Lucic had to waive his NMC.

    Maybe McDavid can do the same with his former roommate if he hits the FA market?

    Wait. Neal wanted to come to Edmonton??? No. That can’t be right.

  148. Gerta Rauss says:

    Fuhr and Lowething.:
    Question:

    If Lucic were to retire would we get screwed like Vancouvet did with Luongo?

    No-the Lucic contract isn’t subject to draft recapture penalties

    As the Prof mentioned, there is only a handful of contracts signed under the last CBA that this (potential) penalty applies to. (Hossa,Luongo…a quick google search can find the others)

    The league hated the long contracts with the last few years tacked on as “fake” years to reduce the AAV. These contracts were banned under the current CBA and contracts topped out at 8 years

  149. Georgexs says:

    Chiasson-RNH-Neal

    That’s not a reasonable expectation. RNH is nowhere near that good. Chiasson is in over his head. And, at this stage, James Neal is a suspect.

    The Oilers have about the same P% in the past two seasons when CMD and Drai are together as when they’re apart. Which means there’s no strong case for keeping them together or for splitting them up.

    Tippett has an important decision here. He hasn’t had high end talent. Curious what he’ll choose.

  150. Hamez says:

    Pescador: Bah
    I say ignore the words, wait for the pucks to drop & let your play do the talking.
    In terms of impacting the outcome, Lucic hasn’t had alot to say in the last 3 years.
    I don’t see it improving anytime soon,
    Better?

    Yeah, that’s better but I had high hopes for Lucic. Wasted opportunity to show that he actually learned something valuable from guys like Chara. Turns out he just likes to be sheltered with actual leadership instead of demonstrating it himself.

  151. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar: As much as Lucic was a black hole offensively and looked awful all over the ice (with an inability to even transition the puck up the ice with time), he did show to be quite responsible as his possession numbers and goal share numbers were positive across the board, generally – I assume that means that, while no goals for are scored while he’s on the ice, not many goals against are scored either?

    With that said, one would think McDavid (and the rest of the hockey world) should be able to take advantage of Lucic on the ice.

    Well he had a GF% of 45.00. He had that run earlier in the season on the Strome line where they couldn’t score but also weren’t giving up many goals. Didn’t really last long after Strome was traded.

  152. Side says:

    Georgexs:
    You had a poll yesterday about the Oilers as a lottery team if Holland was mostly finished with the roster. I was going to post but then the trade came down.

    I like Tippett. I listened to his press conference. Upbeat guy who seems to have insight into what it means to be responsible for other people’s performance. I checked out his record and his rosters. He’s had to find a way to win hockey games with not a lot of talent. He’ll be the first “actual NHL player” coach for the Oilers since MacT. Those guys tend to do OK. I like that after making the playoffs in 8 of his first 9 seasons, he failed to make the playoffs in his next 5. Harder for him to defend poor results by pointing to past success. He’ll have to work for it like the average bloke. I like that he’s been out of the league for 2 years. Time to reflect on how rare and valuable head coaching opportunities really are. I like that he was given 3 years instead of a bloated please do us a favor contract like we gave McLellan and the Leafs gave Babcock.

    I think the team makes the playoffs. (I thought that yesterday too.)

    I think with good health, average goaltending and a large pool of hopefuls for Tippett to cobble together a decent 3rd and 4th line (which was absolutely horrible for the Oilers last year), I too think the Oilers could make the playoffs.

    But I also admit I am a very optimistic person when it comes to the Oilers for whatever stupid reason as I have been burned many times before.

  153. gogliano says:

    If Neal pots 20 (a reasonable marker), how much do the Oilers need to retain to divest themselves of the Neal contract?

    Consider: 750K + X (retained Neal salary) + conditional 3rd is one plausible scenario of getting the entire affair off the books in 4 years from today.

    If (X + 750) is below Lucic’s buyout number for years 2 to 4 — and I’d wager it is substantially below that number if Neal has a rebound year — that’s already a big win as an alternative to keeping Lucic and buying him out next year. Even ignoring years 4-6 of a Lucic buyout or the Neal buyout optionality (if he doesn’t return to form).

  154. OmJo says:

    Hamez: Wait. Neal wanted to come to Edmonton??? No. That can’t be right.

    According to what Leavins said in the article that defmn shared:

    It was at that juncture, however, that I am led to believe that James Neal expressed a specific interest in going to Edmonton. I’m not positive to whom he or his camp did this. But things changed…

    If true, I can’t see how McDavid didn’t have a part in that. Maybe that was to whom he or his camp expressed their interest to.

  155. Georgexs says:

    Why should Neal “easily lead the team in total shots”?

    That doesn’t seem right. He’s been a 3+ shots per game guy for his career but he’s been under 3 the past 3 seasons. He hasn’t been a big PP goal scorer for a while. And as a lefty, not sure how he ends up on PP1.

  156. Jordan says:

    OriginalPouzar: You don’t want 21 plus goals from Neal next year?

    I’ll gladly give up a 3rd round pick if Holland acquired a 20 plus goal score in exchange for Lucic with less than $1M retained.

    That is the biggest win of all wins!

    Think about it – Milan Lucic was disposed of with only $750K and a 3rd round pick – that’s money in the bank right there – add the acquisition of a 21 plus goal scorer – my goodness, hall of fame type value trade.

    You’re right – it could be a real coup of a trade.

    That being said, the Oilers as an organization have pissed away a lot of picks since McD got here in the effort to be “competitive now”.

    I don’t want any more picks leaving town.

    I want those picks to stay here and become more cheap 2nd pairng Dmen or depth forwards so we can have cheap skill.

    2020 is supposed to be a very deep draft year. That 3rd might end up being as good as a 2nd in other years.

    I’m happy that we don’t have Lucic’s contract anymore. Beyond Happy.

    But that doesn’t mean I want to help the Flames. It means I want to stick it to them again!

    20 goals MAX. If he scores his 20th, he gets injured in practice and we bring up a farmhand until the playoffs, when he miraculously recovers.

  157. Dr. Taboggan says:

    I am loving all the “reasonable” predictions for Neal. The guy is likely finished, same as Lucic. It was a good trade because we get cap savings when we inevitability but him out. Counting on Neal to be a top 6 winger is laughable.

  158. Munny says:

    Now the question becomes, can JP and his agent eat crow, and if not, can a useful trade be found? And remain under the cap?

    Right now Haas is looking a lot like our 3C. Possibly Granlund, i suppose.

  159. OmJo says:

    At the time of the rumours of the signing, I was an opponent of the Lucic signing. I wanted Maroon instead. Maroon and Demers. After the Hall trade, my opposition grew even more. I didn’t expect him to succeed here. I was maybe overly critical of him. The price the team paid for him was way too much. I said it then, I said it again. I knew his contract would backfire. That his style of play would catch up to him.

    He had his time in the league. He was the probably the most feared skilled player in the league. I watched the Oilers waste draft picks and salary cap space to find a Lucic for years leading up the summer of ’16. Maroon could have – and was – that player.

    I’m almost tempted to go onto the Oilers forum and boast. Send a couple “I told you so’s” to some of the posters who thought it was a good signing and he’d still be a force in years 1-3 of the contract, and then easily moved afterwards. And I probably would, only I’m not that petty (well, apparently I am) and also I don’t remember the password or the email I used for my account.

  160. rickithebear says:

    LT:
    Sekera did not say jones or bear were real NHL players when he was down in the AHL.
    Lagesson is a real Dman.
    Holland likes Dmen who are 23-24 who have proven they can play defence in the AHL.
    Laggesson: is the best HD defensive prospect since M. Greene.
    The difference when I do discuss offence which I want my dmen to have.
    Sekera identified his ability to get the forwards the puck ASAP at a high level.
    Ifentified his defensive reads.
    Which allows a dman to know if he can attack.

    Once again Holland, Tippett, Playfair.
    “Need to teach some d the finer details of defence before offence and when it is safe to attack as 4th and 5th options. ( as 5)”

    A strong 3-2-1 defence establishing low save% baseline for goalies to perform around allows the team To get 202 to 220ga per season.
    Which should generate a 10+ goal dif team.

    For years now.
    My mantra.
    Defend the HD area.
    Do not abandon your d partner.
    Get the Forwards the puck ASAP with good quick transition passes.
    Follow up the attack as 4th and 5 th option without yielding free path to HD area.
    D do not lead the rush.
    Requires them to be too deep in OZ.

  161. Jethro Tull says:

    Andy Dufresne: Thought about him. But the dudes got a British accent. So no.lol.

    Eh?

  162. Ryan says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Can’t wait for Tippett to match McDavid against Lucic every opportunity at next year’s home games.

    Hopefully, Lucic is good friends with several players on the Oilers roster…

    We all know how hard Looch played against LA.

  163. Ryan says:

    OmJo: Well he had a GF% of 45.00. He had that run earlier in the season on the Strome line where they couldn’t score but also weren’t giving up many goals. Didn’t really last long after Strome was traded.

    Yeah, that was brilliant asset management. Let’s play Strome with Lucic then trade him when he doesn’t produce and his trade value is zilch. Genius.

  164. OmJo says:

    Georgexs:
    Why should Neal “easily lead the team in total shots”?

    That doesn’t seem right. He’s been a 3+ shots per game guy for his career but he’s been under 3 the past 3 seasons. He hasn’t been a big PP goal scorer for a while. And as a lefty, not sure how he ends up on PP1.

    You have to look at Neal in context of the Edmonton Oilers.

    First off, no, he probably won’t lead the team in shots on goal.

    But a top 6 SOG player? 5 players, and we all know who three of them are, the other two being defencemen, had more SOG that him last season. The Oilers haven’t brought in anybody with more SOG than his 141 last season. In fact, only three current Oilers have more than his 545 SOG over the last three seasons. And again, we know who those three players are.

    Ideally, playing with one of our three pass-preferencing Cs this season, his SOG count should go up. And if that happens, and his Sh% corrects, instead of following the Lucic trend, his goal count will go up.

    Statistically I think it’s safe to say his season in Calgary was an outlier, and that leaves some hope, as unlikely as it may be, that he can bounceback and be a useful player for this upcoming season. Only time will tell.

    Worst case scenario is we keep our 3rd round pick and buy him out this summer. Or… maybe trade a prospect to have Seattle take him. Not a high-end prospect. Let’s not forget… The Golden Knights took Reinhart. So it’s possible. At least now we have options.

  165. Georgexs says:

    Side: I think with good health, average goaltending and a large pool of hopefuls for Tippett to cobble together a decent 3rd and 4th line (which was absolutely horrible for the Oilers last year), I too think the Oilers could make the playoffs.

    But I also admit I am a very optimistic person when it comes to the Oilers for whatever stupid reason as I have been burned many times before.

    It was nice to hear Tippett say this in his press conference:

    “No matter who you have on your team you try to maximize the individual talents of each of those players… With that, when you’re maximizing that, you see what an individual can do, but then you try to put him in a position where he can really succeed. There’s where I feel like, especially some of the teams in Arizona, we weren’t high on talent, we were high on character, we were higher on work ethic. We worked together well and we found a way to win a lot of hockey games.”

    (Win a lot of hockey games is a stretch… but, hey, given the forward scoring depth he was working with in Phoenix, maybe not a stretch.)

    He puts the emphasis on recognizing and maximizing what you have, whereas McLellan (and Hitchcock) put the emphasis on “teaching” players. At least, that’s my bad memory of it.

    Tippett’s view makes more sense to me. This season is much more promising than the last two.

  166. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Dr. Taboggan:
    I am loving all the “reasonable” predictions for Neal. The guy is likely finished, same as Lucic. It was a good trade because we get cap savings when we inevitability but him out. Counting on Neal to be a top 6 winger is laughable.

    Neal’s production last year, his worst season by far, places him in a top 6 role in Edmonton, or close to it.

    That’s more an indictment of the team than praise of Neal, but the point is that a modest bounce back would firmly entrench him in the top 6. Like really modest.

  167. OmJo says:

    Ryan: Yeah, that was brilliant asset management. Let’s play Strome with Lucic then trade him when he doesn’t produce and his trade value is zilch. Genius.

    Strome’s numbers away from Lucic are incredible. Like two totally different players.

    I think when somebody sent Chiarelli an email to “pump and dump” Strome, there was a typo and he read it as “dump and dump” …. well, mission accomplished.

  168. OmJo says:

    Ryan: Hopefully, Lucic is good friends with several players on the Oilers roster…

    We all know how hard Looch played against LA.

    Hopefully games against Edmonton aren’t meaningful games, too.

  169. Andy Dufresne says:

    24 Hour Rule

    Kurt Leavins at the The Journals Cult of Hockey Has a nice piece of sports journalism that explains in great detail, just how the Lucic for Neal trade came about. For those of you who missed it, a fascinating must read.

    https://www.nugget.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    The second link is basically an UPDATED more detailed version Leavins posted today.

  170. rickithebear says:

    King redux:
    You want strong high shot volume off pair who generate high evg mass (production)
    and
    elevate a bottom 2nd line evg winger 8-9 evg with lower shot volume to 1st line production 15-16 evg by increased shot density (shooting%).

    We have a potential to do that with
    Mcdavid – Draisaitl
    Neal – RNH
    Supported by some of the deepest bottom 6 evg depth we have had since the lockout.

    When you look at goal to assist ratio of wingers.
    Granlund – XXX – Archibald who have shown first line Winger EVG pace require a puck distributing center. Would expect the line to see bench change with pocession with a distributor like Gagner and face offs intermittent with Mcdavid & Draisaitl.

    Interesting to see if Haas/ Marody can be that distributer.
    Marody is the only prospect that should have any chance of getting on the roster.

    Wish they would have given Puljujarvi some work on face- offs in his 3 years.

  171. Andy Dufresne says:

    Dr. Taboggan: Counting on Neal to be a top 6 winger is laughable.

    Haa Ha !

  172. treevojo says:

    OmJo:
    At the time of the rumours of the signing, I was an opponent of the Lucic signing. I wanted Maroon instead. Maroon and Demers. After the Hall trade, my opposition grew even more. I didn’t expect him to succeed here. I was maybe overly critical of him. The price the team paid for him was way too much. I said it then, I said it again. I knew his contract would backfire. That his style of play would catch up to him.

    He had his time in the league. He was the probably the most feared skilled player in the league.I watched the Oilers waste draft picks and salary cap space to find a Lucic for years leading up the summer of ’16. Maroon could have – and was – that player.

    I’m almost tempted to go onto the Oilers forum and boast. Send a couple “I told you so’s” to some of the posters who thought it was a good signing and he’d still be a force in years 1-3 of the contract, and then easily moved afterwards. And I probably would, only I’m not that petty (well, apparently I am) and also I don’t remember the password or the email I used for my account.

    Didn’t we already have maroon when Lucic signed?

  173. Andy Dufresne says:

    Jethro Tull: Eh?

    Bloody hell !

    Pip pip cheerio, and all that rot. 😉

  174. OmJo says:

    treevojo: Didn’t we already have maroon when Lucic signed?

    Yup. To clarify, I wanted only Maroon. I thought him on the team made the need for Lucic negligible.

  175. OmJo says:

    rickithebear:
    King redux:
    You want strong high shot volume off pair who generate high evg mass (production)
    and
    elevate a bottom 2nd line evg winger 8-9 evg with lower shot volume to 1st line production 15-16 evg by increased shot density (shooting%).

    We have a potential to do that with
    Mcdavid – Draisaitl
    Neal – RNH
    Supported by some of the deepest bottom 6 evg depth we have had since the lockout.

    When you look at goal to assist ratio of wingers.
    Granlund – XXX – Archibald who have shown first line Winger EVG pace require a puck distributing center. Would expect the line to see bench change with pocession with a distributor like Gagner and face offs intermittent with Mcdavid & Draisaitl.

    Interesting to see if Haas/ Marody can be that distributer.
    Marody is the only prospect that should have any chance of getting on the roster.

    Wish they would have given Puljujarvi some work on face- offs in his 3 years.

    Ironically Nuge could be that C, too. But then that takes away from the top 6.

    Well, the spot is there for somebody to step up and take it, unless Holland pulls another rabbit out of the hat. Gagner, maybe?

    I actually forgot he was on the team lol….

  176. Georgexs says:

    OmJo: You have to look at Neal in context of the Edmonton Oilers.

    First off, no, he probably won’t lead the team in shots on goal.

    But a top 6 SOG player? 5 players, and we all know who three of them are, the other two being defencemen, had more SOG that him last season. The Oilers haven’t brought in anybody with more SOG than his 141 last season. In fact, only three current Oilers have more than his 545 SOG over the last three seasons. And again, we know who those three players are.

    Ideally, playing with one of our three pass-preferencing Cs this season, his SOG count should go up. And if that happens, and his Sh% corrects, instead of following the Lucic trend, his goal count will go up.

    Statistically I think it’s safe to say his season in Calgary was an outlier, and that leaves some hope, as unlikely as it may be, that he can bounceback and be a useful player for this upcoming season. Only time will tell.

    Worst case scenario is we keep our 3rd round pick and buy him out this summer. Or… maybe trade a prospect to have Seattle take him. Not a high-end prospect. Let’s not forget… The Golden Knights took Reinhart. So it’s possible. At least now we have options.

    You’re right. It’s better to be optimistic. No /s. It’s so much easier to cheer for the players who play for the team.

    He took a year off in Calgary. A sabbatical.

    But the scenario in which we keep the 3rd and SEA chooses Neal for a low end prospect is both sad and uber optimistic.

  177. Ryan says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    24 Hour Rule

    Kurt Leavins at the The JournalsCult of Hockey Has an outstanding piece of sports journalism that explains in great detail, just how the Lucic for Neal trade came about. A fascinating must read.

    https://www.nugget.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    Trust me. Its worth your time. The second link is basically an UPDATED more detailed version.

    Great to hear that he’s training with Gary Roberts and Connor McDavid.

    That along with the short offseason the year prior are very encouraging.

    This whole thing unraveled like a Keyser Soze walking off his limp moment (from the Sekera buyout to the hint at trying to find a 20 goal scorer etc).

  178. defmn says:

    I think it is also time to mention the role that Katz played in this trade. All the focus has been on the cap similarities and differences but Katz stepped up with about $10 mil difference in salaries. It is easy to dismiss a billionaire burning millions but he did it and I don’t think it is off base to wonder if that didn’t play a role with Calgary ownership.

  179. Jethro Tull says:

    Andy Dufresne: Bloody hell !

    Pip pip cheerio, and all that rot.

    He’s actually Welsh, so iechyd fuckin’ da! (Yaki Dah)

    So as to play fair, is your accent a gentleman’s southern drawl or a “just oot fer a rip, ur ya bud?”.

  180. McSorley33 says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    Great article …..Kurt deserves large credit here.

  181. rickithebear says:

    Cash money:
    Goals win games.
    Identifying highly less efficient passing leading to 1st and 2 Nd asssits as the primary skill needed from players is silly.
    Thru the years goal scorers get paid.
    For scoring the thing that wins games.

    Neal last year was a 5 evg scorer the starting point 93rd for a third line LW.

    While we have last seasons evg scoring.
    RW Kassian 14 evg starting point of 1st line winger
    LW/RW Chaisson 13 evg 1 goal short of 1st line.
    RW archibald 12 evg who maintained a first line pace thru all his games last 2 seasons in ARZ.
    LW/RW Granlund 10 evg a better than starting 2nd line winger last year. Who was a 1st line winger in 16-17.

    Neals 21.5 evg per season Vegas & NSH and 9 of 10 full seasons as 1st line LW evg scorer makes him the 3rd most prolific evg scorer since the lockout on the team behind Mcdavid & Draisaitl and likely slightly ahead of Eberle, a first line evg winger 5 of 7 seasons with EDM.

    Neal would need to have starting 1st line winger production ( top 31 ) to beat out the competition on the team.
    Not to easy to me.

    Interesting narative on your part.
    But highly suspect.
    Neal is a top 15 LW at generating EVG.

    Who’s seasonal history has come out in snipits since the end of the season.
    Which parallels the article by Kurt Leavins of Post Media.

    One of the last media groups that wants facts from their reports rather than click bait.

  182. Alpine says:

    Neal played a lot of hockey in the last few years. Two straight SCFs can take a physical toll on a 30 year old and losing both has to hurt mentally. Hopefully his first normal offseason in a few years will help. I’m only really expecting 10-15 goals the next two seasons and then a buyout in 2021, to shorten the term of the residual cap hit penalty.

  183. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    rickithebear,

    I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

  184. Jethro Tull says:

    Lucic, after being let go from bussing tables at Treliving’s dad’s restaurant:

    I feel if I was bussing tables at a Michelin potential restaurant with top chefs and staff, I would have brought more to the game.

    I know my service was always late, and I expected a full share of tips, but the age of the short order chefs was worrying me, so I didn’t give my all.

  185. rickithebear says:

    LT:
    My wife did not get me a subscription to the Athletic she had promised.
    So I cannot comment on your media group.

  186. defmn says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    24 Hour Rule

    Kurt Leavins at the The JournalsCult of Hockey Has a nice piece of sports journalism that explains in great detail, just how the Lucic for Neal trade came about. For those of you who missed it, a fascinating must read.

    https://www.nugget.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/now-that-the-milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-is-complete-we-can-tell-you-how-the-deal-eventually-came-about

    The second link is basically an UPDATED more detailed version Leavins posted today.

    Sorry, did I break some kind of rule here by posting the link earlier?

  187. Reja says:

    After uncle Pete was shown the door I figured Lucic and the Oilers would be pushing hard anywhere but here as Lucic was Miserable. Neal was just as miserable plus Peters didn’t want him back anywhere on the team. It’s quite obvious this deal was in place for at least weeks and it was held up awaiting the bonus. Lucic and Talbot against Neil and Smith who has the bigger chip on their shoulders and what coach will get the most. I’ll take Tippett

  188. Andy Dufresne says:

    Im hoping that this deal is the result of a “perfect storm” that favors us for a change.

    Conditions that set the stage

    Neal plays a long season in 2017-18
    Las Vegas needs to shed some cap (lets him walk)
    Neal has a friend ? ( Mike Smith ) in Calgary.
    Calgary thanks thier lucky stars and signs Neal to a 25 goal 50 pt type contract
    Neal shows up in Calgary in poor shape to start the 2020 season

    If any of the last 4 things doesnt happen, the Oilers dont get James Neal.

    Lucic
    Lucic has back to back underperforming seasons
    Lucic contract is horrible
    Pressure on Lucic from all directions
    Lucic agrees to waive NMC but only for a team that he percieves to be a contender.

    If any of these things doesnt happen, the OIlers dont get James Neal.

    Calgary
    The Flames win the Western Conference with 107 pts (Contender)
    Flames flame out in the playoffs. Perception is they got pushed around. Could use more physical presence
    Flames trade aging goalie to Edmonton

    If any of these things doesnt happen. The Oilers dont get James Neal

    Edmonton
    Oilers hire Ken Holland. Ken Holland identifies the primary needs as “20 goals scorers” and a “1B goalie.”
    Holland hires Coach Dave Tippett ( who has sucessfully coached both Smith and Neal)
    Holland snaps up Mike Smith.

    If any of these things dont happen, Neal is not an Oiler.

    It is indeed a stange confluence of events.

    Lucky? or Not Lucky?

    (there may be a few other occurences that mattered 1) all of Chiarellis hires fail miserably Reider, Rattie, Aberg, etc or he trades the ones who dont (Strome). 2) JP and Yamo underperform 3) Neal has some kind of relationship with McDavid etc)

  189. Side says:

    Georgexs: It was nice to hear Tippett say this in his press conference:

    “No matter who you have on your team you try to maximize the individual talents of each of those players… With that, when you’re maximizing that, you see what an individual can do, but then you try to put him in a position where he can really succeed. There’s where I feel like, especially some of the teams in Arizona, we weren’t high on talent, we were high on character, we were higher on work ethic. We worked together well and we found a way to win a lot of hockey games.”

    (Win a lot of hockey games is a stretch… but, hey, given the forward scoring depth he was working with in Phoenix, maybe not a stretch.)

    He puts the emphasis on recognizing and maximizing what you have, whereas McLellan (and Hitchcock) put the emphasis on “teaching” players. At least, that’s my bad memory of it.

    Tippett’s view makes more sense to me. This season is much more promising than the last two.

    Thanks for that. It’s also really promising to hear he is watching game footage of last season and some Bakersfield footage.

    It actually helps make my hope feel justified. Instead of just hoping “change for change’s sake” is enough to make a difference.

  190. Reja says:

    defmn:
    I think it is also time to mention the role that Katz played in this trade. All the focus has been on the cap similarities and differences but Katz stepped up with about $10 mil difference in salaries. It is easy to dismiss a billionaire burning millions but he did it and I don’t think it is off base to wonder if that didn’t play a role with Calgary ownership.

    Without the 10 large The Deal doesn’t happen in my opinion.

  191. Ryan says:

    defmn: Sorry, did I break some kind of rule here by posting the link earlier?

    I’m pretty sure that the 24 hr rule is simply a self-imposed rule adhered to by Lowetide in which he won’t quote an article if it’s less than 24 hrs old and will only link to it instead.

  192. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    If there is anything to the dressing room issues with Jesse and this helps get Jesse under contract, another huge bonus.

    Not to mention his statement re: older captain – something was amiss in the room.

    Lucic was brought in to provide veteran leadership, obviously that didn’t work out too well either, thank you Treliving.

  193. Andy Dufresne says:

    defmn: Sorry, did I break some kind of rule here by posting the link earlier?

    Not at all. Posting the link is completely OK.

    Just no large cut and paste for 24hrs. If I understand it correctly.

    Not to mention, I think your info was from Leavins post yesterday (19th). He updated the article today. Added a few more details.

  194. Hamez says:

    OmJo,

    I see that, I just having a hard time digesting it. I do agree McDavid must have been somewhat of a catalyst to his desire to move north.

  195. Reja says:

    Side: Thanks for that. It’s also really promising to hear he is watching game footage of last season and some Bakersfield footage.

    It actually helps make my hope feel justified. Instead of just hoping “change for change’s sake” is enough to make a difference.

    Remember we had this weirdo narcissistic new coach that laughed at reviewing game film of the previous year or maybe that was just a bad nightmare.

  196. Andy Dufresne says:

    Jethro Tull: He’s actually Welsh, so iechyd fuckin’ da! (Yaki Dah)

    So as to play fair, is your accent a gentleman’s southern drawl or a “just oot fer a rip, ur ya bud?”.

    Where to are you from then, butt ?

  197. Andy Dufresne says:

    Reja: Without the 10 large The Deal doesn’t happenin my opinion.

    Katz is definitley part of our “value proposition”

    He is a competetive edge. IMO

  198. OmJo says:

    Georgexs: You’re right. It’s better to be optimistic. No /s. It’s so much easier to cheer for the players who play for the team.

    He took a year off in Calgary. A sabbatical.

    But the scenario in which we keep the 3rd and SEA chooses Neal for a low end prospect is both sad and uber optimistic.

    Oh, no… Those were two separate scenarios. But yeah, very wishful thinking on Seattle taking him.

  199. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie: I know you are stretching to make a point.

    But at some point, we add some players that contribute to winning.

    If it was easy to unload Neal, why didn’t Treliving do that he needs about $5M if cap space to resign his RFAs?

    Yes, adding players that contribute to winning is great. Disposing of players that contribute to losing (and prohibit acquiring players that contribute to winning) is also great and was one of the primary goals of this off-season.

    Even if James Neal is just as bad this year as he was last year, this is a win for the Oilers and their ability to build going forward.

    The fact that James Neal is one year removed from scoring over 20 goals every single year of his career and may actually provide top 6 offence is a massive bonus. If it doesn’t happen, the trade was good and helps, however, if Neal actually does bounce back, and I think there is a decent chance of that, the trade is just a massive win.

  200. OriginalPouzar says:

    bwar:
    Why are we penciling Neal onto the top line?He’s a shiny new toy buthe was 15th on the Flames in goals last year.Hathaway tied him for points and I’m pretty confident that if he had been the return we wouldn’t be placing him on the top line.Maybe Neal gets his mojo back but I don’t think you should be holding your breath waiting.

    The trade is a win for Edmonton, not going to question that for a second.I just don’t think that Neal is a legit top 6 option any longer.

    He is one year removed from 21 plus goals for over 10 straight seasons.

    Some times players have one-off bad years and then bounce back.

    Sure, maybe its the start of the cliff but there is just as good a chance that it was a one off.

    He came to camp in bad shape and got off to a rocky start with his coach. He was demoted down the lineup very quickly at 5 on 5 and never got on track shooting at less than half of his career norms.

    There is every chance he bounces back playing with skill on the OIlers.

    He is a legit top 6 forward, once year removed, I think the depth chart of this team shows that he should be given a real chance in the top 6. If he sucks and it is a cliff, so be it, however, its not unreasonable to suggest that he very well could score in the 20s next year.

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