That’s Glen Sather and John Muckler reacting to a fan in the Spectrum (Philadelphia) who took a swing at Slats. This is seconds after the best Oilers team ever (my opinion) won Game 4 in the 1987 Stanley Cup Final. If you ask most Oilers fans who lived through that period, the overwhelming recall is Sather constructing a team via his job as general manager and then coaching that group with Muckler to the 1987 Stanley. Is that what really happened between April 1986 and May 1987?
THE ATHLETIC!
- New Lowetide: Why Jordan Dumais could be NHL Draft steal for Edmonton Oilers
- Lowetide: Oilers’ Zach Hyman’s value continues to rise in playoffs
- DNB: Connor McDavid scored the most important goal of his career with his Battle of Alberta OT winner
- Lowetide: Oilers’ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins having effective playoffs before big goals
- DNB: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins gets his chance to shine in the playoffs
- DNB: Cody Ceci making himself ‘irreplaceable’ in playoffs
- Lowetide: Oilers future relies on quality coaching replacement in Bakersfield
- DNB: Leon Draisaitl assists on all four Oilers goals in win over Flames
- Lowetide: Has Oilers goalie Mike Smith earned the net in 2022-23?
- DNB: This is how Connor McDavid wins: ‘He’s like a shark circling the waters’
- Lowetide: Reasonable expectations for Oilers could not see chaos ahead
- DNB: How Dave Manson is making the Oilers blue line better
- Lowetide: Oilers regular season report card for 2021-22
REMEMBERING THE IMPORTANT THINGS
We had a fun conversation in the comments section yesterday about Ken Holland’s season. Edmonton’s general manager did a good job on the “get good players” front, with Mike Smith, Cody Ceci, Duncan Keith, Brett Kulak, Tyson Barrie, Zach Hyman, Evander Kane, Warren Foegele, Derek Ryan and others joining Edmonton’s young cluster of quality players. That doesn’t mean every move was a grand slam home run, but most would agree the Oilers are better now than on the day Holland took over. If Edmonton wins the Stanley, all anyone will remember is the Stanley and how it was won. Winning changes everything.
Glen Sather was not a happy man after the 1986 season ended. The Oilers lost to the Flames in the playoffs, for the first and only time. The general manager set about creating a super team for his coach. Here are the transactions of the 1986-87 season.
- Signed defenseman Craig Muni. Muni had earned free agency from the Toronto Maple Leafs (they kept him in the minors forever, so he escaped like Tyler Pitlick got out of Edmonton decades later) and signed with the Oilers. Sather was impressed, Muni made the team, and then got moved around the NHL four times in a week to avoid the waiver draft (Sather didn’t want to lose winger Raimo Summanen). Muni, a hard hitter and a tough player, hung around for several seasons of rugged shutdown defensive play. Sather got a free player and an effective one.
- Acquired the rights to defenseman Reijo Ruotsalainen. It was a seven player trade and Ruotsalainen didn’t return from Europe until March. He was more of a rover than a defenseman, and very effective. He had a strong run with Edmonton and played a lot in the postseason. Another win for Sather.
- Traded Dave Semenko for a third-round pick. By 1986-87, the Oilers had other enforcers (Marty McSorley, Kevin McClelland, Steve Smith, Muni, others) and were tough up and down the lineup. It was not a popular PR move but Semenko wasn’t going to play every night anymore.
- Acquired LW Kent Nilsson. This was a vital trade, absolutely completed the second line (Mark Messier, Glen Anderson) and for me made this team the most powerful edition of the 80’s Oilers (along with the Ruotsalainen deal).
- Acquired RW Norm Lacombe. Another tough trade, sending away legendary defenseman Lee Fogolin and effective forward Mark Napier for a two-way winger who was a little shy offensively. Lacombe didn’t play much after coming over, but did have some success in the following two seasons with Edmonton. At times he played on the Messier like with Glen Anderson, providing two-way play for a high octane line ala Chico Maki 15 years before.
- Acquired LW Moe Lemay. He was a fun player to watch in Vancouver but didn’t play much in Edmonton. This was a deadline deal, Sather sending away Summanen six months after working overtime to keep the Finn from the waiver wire.
Sather gave up lots of talent during the season and many wildly popular players. When I found out about the Fogolin trade it took the wind out of my sails. Here are the players surrendered.
- Center Mike Golden. He didn’t play in the NHL, but was a Hobey Baker finalist in 1988, and was a prospect of note at the time of the deal. Golden was a second-round selection in 1983.
- Defenseman Don Jackson. Enforcer who played on the 1984 and 1985 Stanley Cup winners, he played less in 1985-86 and spent just one more season in the NHL after being dealt to the Rangers.
- Defenseman Miloslav Horava. A depth pick from the 1981 draft, he would play parts of three seasons for the Rangers in the years after the trade.
- Left wing Dave Semenko. Famous and incredibly popular, Oilers fans were not pleased with this deal at all. Semenko would play a season in Hartford and another in Toronto.
- Defenseman Link Gaetz. The draft pick Edmonton surrendered was used on Link Gaetz (the missing Link!) who would have an eventful career that included some time in the NHL.
- Defenseman Lee Fogolin would play just nine games for the Buffalo Sabres. He was done just a little past 30, but he a nice run with the Sabres (+8 in those nine games) all the same.
- Winger Mark Napier would be productive after the deadline and for two more seasons with Buffalo. He was one of my favourites, even cheered for him in Montreal.
- Winger Raimo Summanen. He didn’t play much for Vancouver (6-7-13 in 19 games) but Sather put a good grade on him and Slats knew his hockey players. Summanen would have needed a coach who valued skill highly (like Sather) to have a career in the NHL of the late 1980’s. In the group traded, he had the most potential for a significant career. Vancouver was the wrong team for him.
TODAY
As I mentioned in our conversation yesterday, the trades and signings Ken Holland made last offseason are a central part of the story of Edmonton’s season and playoffs. Some of those deals delivered less than 100 cents on the dollar and were questionable at the time. More in return was required. All of that washes away when a team wins, and the potential sent to other teams doesn’t always develop. Mike Golden was a significant prospect, Raimo Summanen was a young player Glen Sather was hesitant to lose just six months before he traded him. Lee Fogolin and Dave Semenko were beloved veterans, Mark Napier a useful veteran who could help in multiple ways. Didn’t matter. Nilsson and Ruotsalainen played starring roles in winning the Stanley, and that made everything worthwhile. Always does.
NEW for The Athletic: Breaking down Oilers vs. Avalanche: Key players, injury updates, storylines, more
From Avalanche writer Peter Baugh and yours truly.
https://theathletic.com/3339143/2022/05/29/oilers-avalanche-preview-key-players-injuries/
Lots of discussion about Keith potentially retiring…
Don’t the Oilers need someone to head their defenseman excellence department?
I think the only “talk” about Keith retiring is among hopeful fans.
Cathal Kelly with another utter dogshit article. It’s a shame that such a talented writer has such a disparaging take on the Oilers.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-oilers-have-finally-put-together-a-team-worthy-of-mcdavid/
Damn. Why did you waste 30 seconds of my life by sharing that link?
Ugh, I was only able to read about 1/5 of this shitty take before I tasted vomit. Utter garbage, this clown is an uninformed hack.
Clearly he is a deeply scarred Leafs fan who can’t let got of the 2015 lottery. I hope with all my heart that McDavid retires an Oiler, just because of this turd for brains.
Being a Leafs fan is it’s own punishment.
— in portfolio management we talk about performance attributes.
— It’s been an interesting conversation today. Let’s not forget that in terms of performance attributes: McDs heroics and the greatest 5 games played in playoff history by not McD are by many many orders of magnitude the “alpha” in performance.
— We spend a lot of timing talking and examining and worrying and opining and posting on things that have considerably less impact on performance.
— so here we are in the 3rd round of the playoffs. Just like for most portfolios is a few stocks that make all the difference so to explains our team.
— tell me how many points McD and Drai get next round and your pretty sure to know the outcome. The rest is mostly noise that will simply be amplified amd magnified depending on how those two do.
In 2016/17 McDavid scored 4 points in 6 games against San Jose, along with Drai, Klefbom and Letestu getting 3 each. It was a low scoring series that the Oilers won. In the 4 games against Chicago in 2020, McDavid had 9, Hopkins 8 and Draistaitl 6 and the Oilers lost in 4. Their points don’t tell the whole story.
— That was then this is now. 5 game series and 6 years ago aren’t sources of information Don’t get fooled. Performance attributes: If we know that McD and Drai scores below a 667 PPG rate: redeem now! They being too players this round are necessary but insufficient attributes.
Summarizing!
The series of 1-goal games continues as Quebec re-takes home ice with a 3-2 victory. It was Shawinigan’s first loss in their barn.
The Bourg picked up a primary assist on what had been the game-tying goal before Quebec pulled ahead to stay. Shawinigan will try to stave off elimination in Game 4 tomorrow night.
Remember when Hughes vs. Makar was a thing? Crazy times!
I remember when someone said it was a thing.
But they say lots of stuff.
Very enjoyable article, and the conclusion of “everything is worth it when you win” really got me thinking about how, duh, obviously that’s right, but also… is it? If you trade Gretzky then win Stanley, did you do the right thing? I’m trying to apply ethical concepts to hockey, let’s see if this works. Instead of asking “what is the most moral action” we’re asking “what is the action most likely to result in winning?”
Consequentialist ethics are those that are focused on results. “The ends justifies the means” is very well know, as is “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Different iterations of the same principle. These systems are easiest to use to justify actions that would be immoral under other systems.
Deontological ethics are those that are focused on following the correct rules, such as the Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the Categorical Imperative. These systems are the most likely to have ruinous consequences; if you do the right thing and the world burns as a result, you still did the right thing.
Stoicism teaches that you should not feel upset about things beyond your control. For sport, this means you can control your training, nutrition, effort, etc, but you cannot control whether you win or not, therefore, you should not care whether you win or not. https://existentialcomics.com/comic/179
Okay, all useful but flawed ideas. It occurs to me that a lot of back-and-forth between different hockey schools of thought parallels these ideas. So, reasonable, well-informed adults would be likely to view the following things in the following ways:
Resigning a streaky 40 year old goalie to be your starter for the next two years when you are in Win Now mode: A consequentialist is happy, because it worked out (so far, *does all the superstitious things*). A deontologist is losing their mind because the body of statistical evidence says this is a losing move. A stoic is only concerned with the choices they had, so they may see it not as “signing a risky goalie” but as “signing the least risky option available.”
That legendary whacky MacT draft pick trade. A consequentialist is unhappy, because it didn’t work. A deontologist may think the correct process was followed and that is what will lead to the best outcomes overall so we should be looking to do it again. A stoic might feel upset because they feel there were better choices we could have made, or might feel fine because how prospects work out is beyond our control, there is often room for disagreements even among reasonable adults with similar paradigms.
Drafting Conner McDavid. Some things are so obvious that they are clearly correct under every reasonable ethical system.
I think Consequentialism is over-represented in the media, who often, to my eye, blindly worship results without ever thinking about how those results were obtained, whether by blind fluke, true skill, heroic effort, foul cheating or zebra job.
I think Deontology is over-represented in the analytics community. Anyone remember the drunk baby meme captioned “So then Dallas says shots matter more than wins?”
I suspect Stoicism is over-represented in the “professional athlete” community. Conner McDavid is the best there is, and he has lost more hockey games than most humans will ever play. Professional athletes need a way to keep their self-image stable through good times and bad while enduring treatment that we would consider abusive if they were happening in other contexts (if I worked a horse as hard as Connor works himself, I would hopefully be shunned. If I posted the kind of personally judgmental comments that some fans regularly post about regular citizens, it would be cyber bullying at best. If I treated my coworkers the way that Brad Marchand does, I’d be in jail. Not judging, just observing that how we treat athletes is weird.)
I think fans are all over the place, and I think the continual dialogue, especially online, of the fanbase plays the largest role in advancing the game. Most athletes, media members, and analytics folks were fans first, right? The ideas that they develop percolate here.
I’m sure there are other valid perspectives one could use, these ones jumped out at me. Sorry this was kinda pointless and rambly, hope it was interesting.
Very interesting read and explanation of the varying models and also on how pro athletes get treated outside otherwise societal norms. Politicians, entertainers and others who work/live in the public eye get all kinds of perks but also all kinds of trash thrown their way. Reminds me of Bill Murray’s comment on people wanting to be rich and famous – something to the effect of: try being rich first, and see if that gets you where you need to go.
Very Cool:
Valtteri Filppula has become the 30th player and 1st from Finland https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/13.1.0/svg/1f1eb-1f1ee.svg to join the Triple Gold Club!
Stanley Cup: 2008 🏆
Olympic Gold: 2022 🥇
World Championships: 2022 🥇
https://twitter.com/completehkynews/status/1531005348923990021?s=21&t=D929mCXnyfnT5evhvKZLig
Absolutely brutal officiating in the gold medal game.
IIHF really outdid itself today. And that’s not an easy bar to get over.
What a stunning display of incompetence.
I spoke with a former Oilers EIG owner about the legality of Katz enticing Keith to retire with a lucrative scouting gig…his theory was that after Keith retires he becomes merely a private business man…un-associated with the NHL. Katz could hire a private person to do his laundry for $2MM and league really doesn’t have legal cause to object. Obviously the conversation and handshake deal between Katz and Keith prior to his retirement could never see the light of day….
The CBA devotes 10 pages to circumvention, which is exactly what this would be. Maybe the NHL would turn a blind eye if it just was Edmonton saving a few million dollars of cap, but an already upset Chicago, being hit with between a $4 million to $7 million cap recapture penalty would be apoplectic if a retired Keith suddenly started working for the Oilers or Katz, or anyone in Edmonton for that matter. At Chicago’s insistence the NHL would be all over that investigation. And in addition to getting stuck with the cap hit again, penalties include loss of picks at additional $5 million. Not worth any funny business.
You’re not hearing my point….If a retired Keith works for Katz in a non hockey capacity…how can the NHL legally object?
I assume you haven’t read section 26 of the CBA, and it’s possible the former owner didn’t either; it specifically references exactly what you are talking about. It is written to prevent owners and players having outside agreements to get around the cap. Getting any $2 million job working for Katz so that the Keith can still get paid, but his salary comes off their salary cap is why they wrote that section in the first place.
If Keith retires early, it will be because other things matter more to him than an extra $1.5 million in gross salary. He won’t and can’t take a verbal promise of a cushy high paying non-hockey job related to anyone with the Oilers or anyone who owns them.
There it is, 26.15.e (examples of circumvention) A Club and a Player, during the Player’s active career, agree that upon the Player’s retirement, he will receive a sum of money for services to be provided to the Club after retirement.
There it is, 26.15.e (examples of circumvention) A Club and a Player, during the Player’s active career, agree that upon the Player’s retirement, he will receive a sum of money for services to be provided to the Club after retirement.
I was thinking that is what the Leafs have offered Giordano for him to take a two year under market value contract.
Today Spezza took a job in management, let’s see if Gio does the same in two years.
Smells fishy to me
There is a stench for sure but I doubt the league moves on it. Probably only two people know for sure and neither of them will be talking.
Spezza’s contract had expired and he had said he would not be willing to play for another team.
There are no restrictions on that kind of situation.
Giordano had agreed to a $1 million/yr contract but reportedly returned and said he would take $800K to help the team out cap wise.
Perhaps there will be some “smell” two years from now but suggesting any cap circumvention at this point is nonsense and actually defamatory.
In any event, I don’t think the $1.5MM is the main reason that Keith is likely to play in the NHL next season. I think its because, well, he wants to play in the NHL next season.
I don’t think he would be enticed by an extra $500K in total comp to hang them up – not to sneeze at $500K or anything like that.
I don’t think Keith retires, and I also think there are other cap relief options the Oilers could pursue.
Further to that, a Keith retirement at this point would be detrimental to the on ice results, in my opinion.
We’ve got Evan Bouchard lining up beside him in the Western Conference Final in 2 days. We’ve got a raw LD prospect that can play behind him next year. Wouldn’t shock me that they also get Kulak back on a team friendly deal.(He’s having a hell of a playoffs too) Nurse – Keith – Kulak – Broberg is quality NHL depth. D men never get hurt, right?
I have time for Keith for one more year. Shed salary elsewhere.
100% they would but it would create $5.5MM of cap space (potentially over $9MM of cap space if the league approves the negative cap recapture “bonus” they may vest).
On-ice results would, presumably, have a net increase by using that newly found cap in other ways.
ask the Canucks about Roberto Luongo and his nifty front off job in Florida
The right move here is to trade Keith to Buffalo for a buyout, and then he turns around and re-signs in Edmonton.
Edmonton eats the forfeit of their first round pick and a $3 million fine from the league.
Problem solved.
Would that then cost a total of two 1st rounders?
It’ll be interesting to see how Oiler fans like me adjust to the modern way of GMing a contending team in this era of (relative) haves and have nots.
Tampa have revolutionized the concept of “all-in”, or should I say, brought It back after some years of more conservative deadline spending.
The assets being paid for decent-to-good players like Hagel, Coleman, Goodrow, Chiarot etc are astonishing but with another good run the Tampa model gains more traction. They target cap hit as item #1 on a checklist that includes player type, talent and fit.
Assuming we don’t win…we’ve now crossed into the legit contender phase. Are we ready to see firsts go for Connor Brown and Carson Soucey.
Not sold on Soucy… seems to miss a fair bit of time every season.
Spot on.
Tampa has been taking this approach for years trading high picks and recently drafted prospects for help RFN and it has obviously paid off in spades.
Colorado is another more recent example of this (only 4 picks in the upcoming draft), the Rangers are another and I expect LA to soon follow suit.
Of course Vegas has been in this mode since the outset but have made some major stumbles in the process…it’ll be interesting to see how they recover this offseason.
I was surprised to see Colorado hasn’t progressed past the 2nd round in 20 years…
That’s kind of the main point. You make these trades knowing that 90% of them will turn out badly. Habs fans are gloating about Hughes fleecing Zito but that misses the point. Florida knows they overpaid but they also know Tampa will never relent in sacrificing tomorrow for today so the pressure on the win now teams to keep up continues to mount.
The winners here are the rebuilding teams and the Cup winner and that’s about it.
Tampa will never relent in sacrificing tomorrow for today
They will have to. Sooner or later those bills (i.e. lack of prospects) come due. (Plus they will have to deal with the cap.)
Don’t get me wrong. Tampa is smart to go all in while they are serious contenders – banners fly forever. (Detroit was smart too.)
But they can’t keep on doing it forever.
I’d note that Holland managed the Oilers to the final 4 this season without trading a 1st or top prospect, which is something of an achievement beyond just getting there.
Not that he’d necessarily hesitate to do so in the future, but I do think it deserves mention in the big picture of team building and sustainability within the ‘all-in’ window.
Holland has to be given credit for jumping on the Kane Train but that’s the kind of acquisition that under normal circumstances would require the expenditure of a 1st round pick or blue chip prospect.
He was not lucky to have signed him but he was lucky that he was available.
100% agree.
Of course Holland was lucky that Kane became available mid-season – that luck applied to 30 other GMs and franchises.
I believe the 86-87 team was the best team, though the 84-85 team was close and the one that typically gets recognized.
I am a contrarian on who was the best linemate for Messier and Anderson. I assert that it was Willy Lindstrom. Kent Nilsson was Sather trying to replicate the boost Lindstrom had given to Messier and Anderson.
Unless Holland can find some way to offload Kassian’s and maybe Barrie’s contracts this season, I think the smart play is to let Kane walk. Kane has done well here – good for him and the team. He’s also been playing alongside 97, the best player in the world. He’s likely earned a big/dubious contract from some team. This is EXACTLY what you’d like to have happen – it should encourage other free agents to come here to enjoy success here, pump up there value playing alongside 97, and then sign big/dubious contracts *with another team.* We should be looking for the next Kane-type player that wants to sign here, rather than making the mistake of signing an inflated contract to a 30s power forward IMO. Let another team make that mistake. (Cue the downvotes)
Don’t sign Kane and you can roll over the heart of the roster as-is. Not having Kane’s monster presence on wing however… Very curious what Kane will ask.
And then you will never see another one year contract at value. Loyalty both to the team and to Kane are two way streets with a common intersection known as Lord Stanley Boulevard…. ostensibly!
I think the best approach is a monster 1 year deal for Kane…dump Kassian and even Foegle and Klef with sweeteners if needed…Entice Keith to retire, and when the dust settles we fork over a 1yr $8M for Kane.
I suspect Kane will feel a lot of pressure to make as much money as possible. As important as he is to the team right now, I’m very gunshy about changing our long term cap strategy for a player of his age. I also really don’t like the idea of letting him walk. It is a dilemma.
Kane’s decision will depend on the outcome of his contract dispute with the Sharks.
This may be true but it very well may have zero effect. A secondary source of income does not necessarily mean he’ll take less then what the market would provide on his NHL contract. It might but that’s far from a certainty.
Lots of unknowns but my preliminary guess is that if Kane stays the contract will look a lot like Hyman’s and there will be anguish over the length.
Holland will go all in for the next 3 years if Kane is good for it and he won’t care about the last 3 or 4 of the contract.
As he should 🙂
As he should.
What happens with Kane really will be interesting though.
Will Holland be the highest bidder? Can Holland be the highest bidder? Does Kane actually want to stay? (ie – is a discount possible)
Many signs point to Holland offering Kane a lot of money and term. At the same time, Larsson was reportedly only offered $4.5 x 4 (upped to 5 in an attempt to keep him). Not full term like Nuge/Hyman/Nurse, etc.
And Holland also appears to have had a line in the sand for Markstrom and Kuemper, making a serious play but losing out in the end in both cases.
I have no idea what to expect re: Kane a re-signing, but there’s recent precedence (and a rationale) for pretty much every outcome.
Yup. It will be the major story of the off season for the Oilers.
While I agree that he might go longer in order to get the AAV down, I don’t agree that he “won’t care about the last 3 or 4 years of the contract”. Obviously he’s willing to give extra term in order to lower near term AAV’s as the team’s window is open but the man has professional integrity and I don’t see him just “not caring” about the long term state of the team just because he’s not likely to be manager at the time. He’
Not because he won’t be manager. I didn’t say that. You just made that part up.
I feel like we, as a society, have been conditioned to look for villains. Everything just feels more controlled when you can paint pictures of evil henchmen behind the scenes pulling strings. It helps some folks remove variables that they have a tough time acknowledging. Variables like luck, fate, faith, chemistry, etc.
You don’t hear me complaining about Holland for that reason. I refuse to allow myself the level of control it would take to assign blame for every misstep along the way. It can be perceived as fence sitting, for sure. I prefer to look at it from a slightly more ethereal perspective though. I’m just along for the ride here. I need to be able to turn down my Oilers DNA when they break my heart in order to walk into the next room and fully appreciate my life. I learned that the hard way. I just can’t do that when I demand answers for all of my questions.
You know, this sort of describes how I feel/deal with the Oilers as well. Maybe it’s age, I do not know how old you are, but as I have aged I have become more even keeled. Sort of like the Zen master’s story in Charlie Wilson’s war about the little boy.
well for my part, for fifteen-ish years, half the fun of this space has been pointing out a plethora of objectively bad bets. This season supplied a bunch. It’ll be even more fun to eat crow. Here’s hoping.
That was kind of my point about this article, I think you put it right in about 400 fewer words. We all have our biases and read the numbers in a different way. For me, I wanted a goalie upgrade, believed the kids on the roster and coming could get the team to the deadline for a rental, and was hopeful Larsson would sign.
The script was shattered early (Larsson) and the moves made did not look like a symphony at the time.
Doesn’t matter. If you win, no one cares, and those who do can get together and talk about the regrets while the parade goes down main street.
This is sports. Winning trades is important, building rosters is vital.
Holland is in the final four. If I say “I don’t like how he did it?” a reasonable response is “who cares?” and we move on.
Holland is in the final four. If I say “I don’t like how he did it?” a reasonable response is “who cares?” and we move on.
====================
Couldn’t agree more. Process is fun to argue about but it is a results based business.
Well said. At this point, just win.
If Keith retires or is offloaded this offseason….are we comfortable with Kulak as 4D (2LD) ?
How much are we willing to pay him and for how long? $3M x 4 feels like too much but he is a prime aged vet Dman with wheels and some puck skills…
Yes. Not sure.
It would be REALLY nice to keep Kulak on the 3rd pairing to pair with Broberg.
We’ve seen him step up and play some solid top pairing minutes with Ceci and show well. Of course, nightly top minutes isn’t reasonable but it provides some evidence that he may be OK in a 2nd pairing role night in and night out.
I think 3LD with 2LD cover is much preferred though.
I’m thinking 3-4 years (from reports, he is looking for 4) at $2.5MM, given or take.
Are you trading Barrie?
Yes, Barrie out, Broberg to 3D with Kulak as 3LD and a veteran 4RD/7D acquired (Matt Benning, for example).
I like Barrie and his disposition for cap (and a 2nd, for example) would hurt but he’s 3RD (and PP1) and cap needs to be moved out somewhere (and that PP1 can be replaced internally).
#BREAKING: “Ronnie Hawkins, the southern U.S. rockabilly artist who sowed the seeds of Canada’s music scene after moving north, has died at 87.”
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/05/29/cross-border-rockabilly-legend-ronnie-hawkins-dies-at-87/
“Hawkins was godfather to a generation of influential artists, including musicians he enlisted for his backing band the Hawks, which would go on to play for Bob Dylan on his infamous 1966 tour when the folkster embraced the electric guitar.
Five members of the Hawks, including Levon Helm and Robbie Robertson, would later form the Band”
Who Do You Love? with The Band.
Amazing…thanks.
I remember the story of Ronnie Hawkins going into the Rolls Royce dealer in Toronto to buy a new Rolls for $18,000 cash.
The salesman thought Hawkins was unsuited to Rolls Royce ownership and sent him away.
Hawkins came back to the dealership and dealt directly with the manager, settling on a price that excluded the salesman’s commission.
Nicely done by Mr.Hawkins.
One of the many things Sather did was well was to bring in new players each year during the dynasty to keep the hunger level high.
I think the outcome of this playoff run will dictate to some degree what Holland does this summer…it is clear from the cap constraints (and verbal) that all of the current forward group cannot stay, which is too bad cause that is a very good top 9!
So who is/are the odd man/men out?
Kassian & Foegle add $5.95 m to the cap. They look most likely to me.
I am very happy with the team this year and I’m picking them to win the cup. However, imo, our division is much weaker. In order for me to believe we have really taken the next step we must beat Colorado.
Next year no matter what happens from here I believe we have a cup winning team if this is the roster come playoff time.
Kane McDavid Drai
Hyman Nuge Yammer
Foegle McLeod JP
Connor Brown Holloway Bourgualt
We pick up Brown at the deadline.
Nurse Ceci
Keith Bouch
Broberg Kulak
Sammy
I did not know that Connor Brown was the key to the Cup…. just kidding, he’d be a great replacement for Archie on the 4th line.
Bourgault, even by season’s end, is a bit of a stretch for me but, of course, you never know.
Fair to point out the Kings are not world beaters at this point in time. Also fair to point out that plenty of reasonable adults thought the Flames were the team to beat in our division.
If Holland wanted to overpay for a vet, I’m just glad it was Keith and not another Ference kind of vet.
Keith is playing a lot better than I expected and I have a feeling he is at least partly responsible for Bouchard’s growth.
Keith definitely has game with the puck on his stick. We’ve all seen it. Where he gets criticized is defending zone entries and d-zone coverage.
Bouchard is a top 10-ish EV point producer in his first full season. Sure Keith’s mentorship helps, but playing with a future 1D who is a top 10 EV scorer also helps Keith, which doesn’t get mentioned as often as it should.
It’s a symbiotic relationship, Bouchard being Eddie Brock and Keith being Venom, but remember in the movie/comics the symbiote kills most normal people.
I credit Manson for sure, Keith maybe. Can’t hurt. For much of the season though it looks more like Young Blood propping Creaky Vet more than anything.
I’m getting to Creaky Vet age myself. Sometimes I’ll say something to a younger player and it goes in one ear and out the other. Other times they take it to heart. Sometimes a quiet word, in the right way at the right time from the right person, makes all the difference. Problem is, from the fan’s perspective all we can do is make inferences about those conversations.
One thing I’ll never understand is how fans get much more upset when the GM acquires a cap hit like Keith’s compared to when he gives cap away for free with poor value contracts like Nurse, Kassian and a second year for Smith.
The latter behaviour is more egregious imo because it’s unforced errors that speak to poor process and we truly don’t know what Bowman would have accepted in cap retained.
By failing to wield the hammer in contract negotiations, Ken quite literally gives additional cap space away on a regular basis. And none of this is dictated by the ‘win now’ ethos. He’s just giving it away to players already in the fold.
I think fans complain about both of those issues.
Obviously the team would be in much better shape if I was in charge, but life isn’t always fair.
I can only speak for myself but I like Nurse a lot and yes, I am on record as liking him on that contract. Could it be lower? Sure, and 97+29 could be higher.
The Kassian contract is completely different because almost everyone here was against it when it was signed. Keith was much closer to 50/50. If they can’t afford JP + KY next season, it’ll have more to do with Keith’s cap hit than having paid Nurse 1.5 million too much.
I think commenters here do both, and many here called out Admin for not locking up Nurse when they could (twice). That said Doc is an impact D signed through his prime, and that’s a major difference between cap spent on him and cap spent on Keith, especially when one could see all the contract re-ups pending through his final year.
At any rate, as unfortunate or suboptimal as the Nurse contract may be, it’s still in the range of the Souray and Sekera contracts in terms of cap percentage.
The Nurse contact would not have happened if they would have signed him long term earlier as they did Klefbom. The team management got bit by the pay me now or pay me more later bug!
I think the problem was they didn’t have the space to ante up earlier. The Nurse salary situation I think was inherited. Kassian was not.
Maybe injuries have affected how that trade has worked out, but it was a bad bet to be value. He’d have to be consistently available and very good to match his sticker price. I don’t think by as much as others do–big fast guys are just more expensive than your Tyler Ennises–but if we’re looking for perfect or optimal that contract doesn’t qualify. Holland got dumped by his own player pump and dump. That said, he also not an un-useful player when healthy and playing with intent. Decent win on the “get good players” front, but a cap mistake.
I hope he maintains health. He’s probably trade-able if he’s healthy. Might cost a throw-in, but it’s not like he’s something ASU couldn’t use.
So the “some” who don’t believe Holland has improved the roster would obviously then prefer the roster he took over. They would prefer these players:
Chiasson
Rattie
Lucic
Larsson
Khaira
Benning
Caggiula
Rieder
Gagner
Brodziak
C Jones
Currie
Spooner
Sekera
Gambardella
Wideman
Manning
Garrison
Gravel
Zykov
Talbot
Petrovic
P. Russell
Over these players:
E. Kane
Hyman
Keith
Bouchard
Barrie
Ceci
Ryan
Foegele
Archibald
McLeod
Shore
Kulak
Sceviour
Broberg
Benson
Perlini
Turris
Koekkoek
Benson
M. Smith
The roster he was handed finished second last in the Division, second last in the conference, 25th in the League. Holland’s roster is presently final four.
Well, one thing we can say about those some who think Holland hasn’t improved the roster… we probably shouldn’t give any value to their hockey opinion. I don’t know how clear cut an improvement can be. The Cup isn’t necessary to prove what he’s done. His good work is obvious to those not blinded by bias.
Well said
Chiarelli trades Caggiula for Manning, a player who deliberately tried to injure McDavid, then later places him on waivers.
Track suit Petey would’ve done less damage in Rogers cooking meth.
Yes, he would have.
And Strome >> Spooner
And Koski extension.
That said, including Cags was an error on my part and wasn’t my original intention (not part of the org at season’s end), but he snuck by my old eyes..
LT had a writeup at the other site a while back which made a strong case that the Oilers would have been a better team if Chiarelli didn’t make a single trade, just hid under the desk for 4 years a la Costanza
Had Chiarelli done nothing but draft from Bob MacKenzie’s list, they would haven a powerhouse years ago.
Is anyone arguing the team hasn’t improved? That’s not the nettle.
I am directly addressing LT’s statement above. That’s obvious, right? And I think he is very likely correct in his observation that there are still some who don’t believe this roster is an improvement over the one Chia handed him. If you think LT is incorrect, you should probably take the issue up with him and explore the veracity of that statement further. But he just needs to find 3 people. It’s not a difficult proof.
The argument has been made by posters here numerous times that the growth of the team under Holland has been due largely or entirely to internal growth from McDavid and Draisaitl.
That’s principally why I put up the roster changes… Because of Darryl Sutter. 😉
I have difficulty buying into one-cause scenarios. The Oilers making the final four isn’t all Holland either. Or all Manwood, Or all full-roster buy-in and delivering on that commitment. Or all luck, or other teams beating themselves.
And we know from the League’s history that having superstars is no guarantee of success. Even if they are at the top end of the totem pole. Redbird has done a good job of demonstrating this, I think.
Thank you Darryl Sutter 🙂
And agreed on your other points.
A TON of micro-stat data here but together by Sid (Oilers Nation) – Corey Sznadjer stats:
https://twitter.com/NHL_Sid/status/1530949739201454081
These microstats don’t reflect well on Keith, which doesn’t quite match my eye test. I think he’s been okay – occasional brilliance marred by brutal gaffes. The microstats definitely do match my impression of Kassian’s play on the forwards though.
One can argue acquisition cost and/or contract terms on many of the adds, but I’m not sure one can argue that each of the following have added to the team and been a big part of where we are today (many being slam dunks vis-a-vis the current team):
Hyman
Ceci
Keith
Kane
Kulak
Ceci, Kane and Kulak are absolutely slam dunk wins – slam dunks as far as acquisition cost and/or contract terms given and play on the ice.
Hyman is a slam dunk as far as play on the ice and current cap hit – the contract is likely to cause problems down the road but was the mantra not “all-in” and “win-now” as far as off-season team building?
For Keith, the acquisition cost was high, too much for sure. I include the loss of cap space in that acquisition cost because, for me, Jones and a 3rd/2nd was a massive win vs. Keith. At the same time, Keith has played 2nd pairing all season and all playoffs long. In fact, by TOI, first pairing at times during the playoffs. As far as “all-in” and “win-now” this was a big win vis-a-vis the upgrade on 2LD from last year. This contract may indeed be part of the issues this off-season.
Add in the re-sign of Nuge. This is similar to Hyman where, as far as on ice-play and current cap hit, its a slam dunk win. The contract may cause problems down the road but was the mantra not “all-in” and “win-now” as far as off-season team building?
Even bringing back Smith looks like a win now. Don’t look but the man is 6th in save percentage over the last two seasons – SIXTH. Health has been an issue and has led to some anxiety at the position but, when he’s played, he’s played well. He has been all-over this playoffs and will need to lock it down a bit more if they are to have success in round 3 but he’s been a win in the now. Next year is a risk (Smith/Skinner) but, in the now, he’s doing the job.
Assets out for a bigger cap goalie in at the deadline would have meant no Kulak. Not making “that trade” has proven huge as we likely are not where we are without Kulak.
That’s a great analysis. For Keith there are a couple of intangibles that are subjective and cant be measured but his playoff experience may contribute to how the team seems to deal better with adversity this playoffs. And, then there is possibly his mentorship and effect on Bouchard.
As for Hyman and Nuge I think we see the Oilers window as being the next three years, especially with Drai’s and 97s contracts expiring so getting value on Hyman’s and Nuge’s contract today vs 4 or 5 years from now is critical.
Absolutely agree that the body of work is very solid.
I was 100% behind all of Hyman, Nuge, Ceci, and Kane. Didn’t know anything about Kulak, and as you said he’s been excellent.
The most I’ve said with Smith is that, during his struggles, Skinner ought to have been given a shot. I think that’s moot now and he’s certainly silenced his critics. Even at his slightly richer cap hit, for sure both Smith and Koskinen have delivered the goods. Would be interesting to see what both guys’ would put up re: numbers with a full season of Woodcroft.
I didn’t like the Keith trade and I’ve been vocal about it, but at there same time I’ve given kudos to Keith for his passing ability. I still think he’s flawed defensively at this point, and as far as value, I’ll have to disagree, particularly given cap implications for next year.
But as LT said, if you win, that’s all that matters. He’s right.
I’m fine with all that, and if Keith hoists a cup I won’t be mulling what might have been.
Something I’ve wondered about over the course of the playoffs is about Klefbom remaining in Sweden.
I don’t know all the variables at play, but my preference would see him with the team for the playoffs. Both from a morale point of view, and (more importantly) from a tactical perspective. Akin to what Letang did with PIT when he was out, providing a boost to the coaching staff and a way to contribute to the team in his on ice absence.
Not sure if Klef doesn’t have the chops for that or he’s resigned himself off the team. Because why wouldn’t you want to be a part of a run like this?
He is no longer part of the team?
This is a very interesting thought I had not considered.
Agree with your premise here. Maybe this provides a definitive answer then to the question if Klef would ever be back….
Maybe he is comfortable with his doctors and therapists. Also his support network.
He hasn’t played in years why would he be a groupie when he has his own life overseas.
From all accounts, his goal remains to return to professional hockey in the NHL and he has been rehabbing and training with that goal in mind.
We know (from Holland) both were going well but there was a setback earlier this year.
We don’t know current status but there has been nothing to suggest that he isn’t still working towards his goals.
For me, if I knew my health wouldn’t let me play pro hockey, I’d be trying to find something to fill the void in my life caused by the absence of playing pro hockey. I’d way rather create my new passion than spend the rest of my life mourning my last one. JMO, this involves a lot of assumptions as well about whether Klefbom recovers (my bet is if he was going to he would have by now, but what do I know?).
From accounts, he doesn’t know that his health won’t allow him to play pro hockey – last update, earlier this year from Holland, he was actively working towards a return.
He has one year left on his contract then he’s a free agent. My guess is if returns it’ll be next year with his buddy Adam in Seattle or late in the 2022-23 year to show the league he still has game
This very well could be – we don’t know.
I was simply responding to the post re: Klef knowing his playing career is over (which, of course, also may be the case and, again, we do not know – most recent official intel goes against that though).
Outstanding! Would resign him in a heartbeat if we got the chance, there is some risk he may never be the player he was though, it’s been a long time and the margins are razor thin at the NHL level. Whether he returns or not I really hope he gets his health back.
One would think this would be true but, in fact, it is not.
For example, Copper N’ Blue tweeting out (to paraphrase) that it cannot fully enjoy this run for fear of what Holland may do this summer.
Some will refuse to give any credit to Holland but are still able to enjoy the moment(s) – that is all fair and good. Even I criticize various moves/decisions along the way but it won’t damper my enthusiasm.
There are others that seem to get more enjoyment out picking out random negative and focussing on them rather than actually enjoying what is happening. For example: those that are more vocal when Nurse gets beat and want to SHOUT “$9.25MM” than they are when he scores a massive goal in game 5.
Those that see Keith give up the blueline and the vitriol over the trade cost and citing “he’s so done” rather than enjoy the fact that he played 25 minutes, leading the group, in a series clinching win.
To each their own but for those that won’t even let themselves enjoy it (see first example), what is the point of being a fan?
I’m am ALL IN on this run.
Copper’n Blue
Those guys could win the Powerball lottery and they’d find a reason to bitch.
They should change the website to Derek Zona and the drama queens.
“Lottery odds are terrible, therefore buying the ticket is unforgivable!”
Hahaha!!! so true, Mr. Zona is such a sourpuss
Jeff Chapman is a fabulous guy and a great read.
Don’t get me wrong, Jeff does seem like a great person (and I worked with him a few years back at Copper N’ Blue).
Copper N Blue is a must-avoid for me. The site’s theme of constant negativity is absurd and obnoxious. There’s being realistic, and then there is being downright gloomy.
Over the years I’ve learned to appreciate players and (try to) not become attached.
Seeing Gretz, Mess and the gang go, then later Satan, Arnott, Guerin, Weight, Cujo, Carter and on down the list taught me that you’re not always going to get back value. The most important ingredient is team success.
I’m not going to fret over hires/fires, trades, extensions and signings when the team does what I want it to do the most; just win, baby!
This!
I believe those website and Twitter experts cater to the naysayers. They have there following from years of Oilers ineptitude over the years. They can fan however they’d like as it won’t affect my life in any way. I’ve been a fan since 72 and will enjoy this team and this ride for the next 4-5 years until the window closes. And then I will cheer the next group on.
That said Holland deserves credit and criticism for what he’s done. I’d say far more credit for now as we are in the final four with a realistic chance of winning
I didn’t realize Keith played more than any D man on either team….thx for pointing this out. Stone only played 6mins…
Whining about not wanting the team to win the cup is borderline nuts.
Yeah, I had to quit reading Copper & Blue years ago.
They turned obnoxious pessimism into some bleak, navel gazing art form. They turned long term gripes into insider “jokes” known only to long term readers — “FIVE ASSETS!!!” — and proactively went after anyone who even gave a hint of enjoyment or optimism.
I mean, there was plenty to criticize — clearly there was — but it turned into a toxic environment. And not one I wanted any part of.
Sather had both zero cowardice and no desire to dwell on past mistakes just because he happened to be the one that made them. Played hunches and when they weren’t good, moved them on for something useful.
Right man for the right moment and one of the best to ever do it. No doubt.
I asked my buddies from Calgary which player they hated most back in the day. Was it McSorely,Messier, Gretzky maybe Linesman nope most of them surprisingly answered Sather. You know your the best when a Coach/GM can get this far under the skin of opposition players and fans.
Awesome.
In a variation of Plato’s Allegory of the Cave, Archibald lovers were watching what they thought was excellent Archibald hockey that contributed to a team winning games.
When dragged out of the cave, so to speak, and shown honest-to-goodness numbers in conjunction with real observations (i.e. Archibald tries hard but seldom has anything good come from it), the Archibald lovers screamed in agony and covered their eyes, retreating back to the cave and again delighting in the shadows on the wall, clinking their glasses filled with something equally terrible as their own judgement, you know, like Molson Canadian.
Although caves may be delightful — to each their own — I’m here to tell you that Archibald has a CORSI of 40, a Fenwick of 39, and a goal share of 29%. Ryan has been not much better, but he’s playing with Archibald and Kassian. Could you imagine Archibald’s numbers if he had to play with Archibald? Goodness gracious!
There is precedent for injecting rookies into the playoffs (i.e. Holloway) and improving a team’s chances to win. Subban, Makar, Jarvis, Pisani (although he was older), kid line from the early 90s, etc.
Now back to the cave, before you melt!
drama queen much?
More of a philosophy major than a drama queen, but to each their own.
Does the coach love Archie in spite of the results?
He does, but his love is diminishing if recent TOI is any indication.
Getting away with Archi vs. the Kings (and to a lesser extent the Flames) is one thing (or two things), but getting away with it versus the Avs is asking for it.
Bednar is no dummy and he’ll own that matchup, particularly on home ice.
I upvoted this comment, after all you won’t win this argument based on facts and observations so you may as well take a shot at me.
Well done Johnny Skid! From poster to posterized. Must be where the skid comes from.
This is definitely more Aeschylus than Socrates.
The principal statistical rebuttal isn’t even addressed, despite being raised here multiple times. Plato would never stoop that low. In fact, doing so goes against the principles of rhetorical dialogue that he developed… that you present all the conflicting data and opposing arguments in the best light possible and then rebut them. Not completely ignore them.
And what we are left with is an argument from analogy, which Mr. Plato will tell you is the weakest type of all arguments, and relies upon the analogy-spinner also proving the strength and relevance of his analogy.
Tell all of us you don’t understand Plato’s allegory of the cave without actually saying you don’t understand Plato’s allegory of the cave.
That would be a huge club considering its metaphysical & epistemological nuances have fascinated – and defeated – some of the brightest minds humanity has churned out over the last 2,500 years.
And has fascinated dramatists too. Hollywood has taken this parable on many times. Not quite as derisively as the original post, but it has been explored… The Matrix, The Truman Show…
I didn’t know that. I’ve never seen either of those. It is a very rich allegory but the idea that escape from the cave is common does it a severe disservice to Plato’s thought imo.
I like!
Is there precedent for injecting raw rookies who have literally not played one single second against NHL competition and never even skated in training camp?
Esa Tikkanen
Who played 3 games and did nothing in them.
Yes. Cale Makar. Subban played 2 regular season games before playing in the playoffs.
It’s rare because a) teams in a position to make deep runs don’t typically have guys like Archi in the lineup, and b) few have high level prospects ready to inject.
It’s rare because a) teams in a position to make deep runs don’t typically have guys like Archi in the lineup,
That’s not true. Colin Fraser has 3 Stanley Cups.
I’m not an Archibald lover, but that line is getting like 30% offensive zone starts.
Its a fourth line being used as cannon fodder to get the offensive lines clean air. Of course they are going to get caved.
Is Holloway so good that he is going to come in and tilt the ice for the Oilers in the other direction? If not, does he have a lot of experience blocking shots and chipping it out?
I’m not sure anyone the Oilers currently have for 4th liners is going to look any better put into the same circumstances.
People stop looking at numbers as soon as they find a couple to confirm their bias.
This is true.
It is also true that people keep looking at numbers until they find a couple to confirm their bias.
The Platonic cave analogy above would more correctly be written as people emerging from two different caves – each with their own perspective – neither of which has truth entirely encompassed.
Yeah and then they stop. 😛
But I like your amendment of Plato’s allegory, if we assume the issue is dualist in nature, has two opposing camps, which this one predominantly seems to be.
The point is one should begin with a hypothesis and then exhaust the data available, rejecting or confirming that hypothesis in due course. (While acknowledging the limitations of inductive reasoning, I suppose, which will never provide us with “perfect” knowledge).
Bling’s hypothesis on Archibald is legitimate. Should be explored. The reasoning comes across as goal-seeking though.
The part of me that keeps the shrine to David Hume in an alcove of my mind was going nuts btw. lol.
We are watching McLeod grow as contributing NHL player. Underlying stats love this guy … way above expected goals. Yet … he had zero goals and zero assists against the Flames. But to my eye he was very additive to the teams goals.
Underlying stats hate Archie, because the stats can’t measure an energy shift or hit at the right time or a 60 second offensive zone cycle. But to my eye he was additive to the team goals.
Only your view of what helps a team win is valid? Only the stats you use are the right ones to use?
I’m not an Archibald lover, think he can be replaced next year, heck even now with Holloway, and I don’t think it would matter much. Unless Holloway comes in and plays like a rookie and makes rookie mistakes, like every player does.
Archibald does one thing more than any other player on the team, and over the course of 7 game series, does help the team. He hits the other team. He leads the team in hits/60. But, because there isn’t a wear down opposition/60, or hurry opposition with puck because they know hit is coming/60 stat for it, some people don’t value what he does. He protects the puck, doesn’t give it away, and is willing to take a hit to make the play. But, your observations should lead you to that.
Observations by people bring different views. Some view some players only to pick out their negative plays/positive plays for confirmation bias. How many times in your observations did you notice the opposition rushing their pass and the puck doesn’t make it to it’s intended target because Archibald is bearing down on them for a hit? Or how often later in the game, the opposition has a little less jump in their step because they’ve been getting hit every time they turn around?
To Bling:
I doubt there would be many Oiler fans that would be upset with Holloway coming in and replacing Archie for a game (or even Kass). There are of course many that would be excited for the move (even if they don’t think its a “necessity” and, of course, those that believe its a must and a huge blind spot by Woody to not have done it.
I would be in the middle category but leaning towards hoping it happens.
Of course, as much as anyone might bring it up daily, we know the verbal from the coach and he was asked directly about Holloway in for Archie by Gregor on Friday. “Healthy and available” was the response and listed a number of healthy scratches that are in that group.
I would love to see it but realize that, even if they do make a change, there is all but zero chance he sees the lineup over Shore and likely not over Brassard either. Who knows if Woody would play him over his AHL-captain in Malone, either (although, to me, that would be an egregious mistake if he played Malone over him).
Sometimes multiple things can be true at the same time. I’m aware that stats don’t like Archibald that much. I also watched a few sequences he was involved in that really seemed to fire up the team and help push the momentum Edmonton’s way. I completely see where the stats folks are coming from, and I also see where the “saw him good” folks are coming from too.
In a perfect world, every player on your team excels under both metrics. We live in a salary cap world where over-expansion has diluted the talent pool. Sometimes you gotta find a way to git er dun even when the budget won’t cover buying all the right tools for the job.
What if the Allegory of the Cave was an action movie? https://existentialcomics.com/comic/222
“Muni made the team, and then got moved around the NHL four times in a week to avoid the waiver draft”
LT on that elsewhere:
https://oilersnation.com/2013/03/15/nation-profile-craig-muni/
Good asset management is so important that it’s easy for me to forget that it’s not the only thing that’s important. Often when I find myself persuaded I am wrong, I started out from a position of “but this lessens the total talent available to our franchise!”
Thing with trades we sometimes forget is it’s a need for a need between two teams. Each team has different needs , Positions, Salary Cap , Draft Picks etc. So sometimes it looks lopsided but it’s not always. And also when two teams trade there’s usually a winner and loser.
Its just unfortunate we had Chiarelli losing almost every trade. But imo that tide has changed
The 1987 team was one of my favorites as well. still can’t beleive the flyers took them to 7 games. The flyers were my second favorite team because of my time in Flin Flon. I loved Reijo and was thrilled with the aquistion of the “magic man”.
I am cautiously optimistic about this years team. Are the Avalanche over hyped? They dont have the dead cap space that the Oilers have so should be deeper. The key as usual will be goaltending. Lets hope Mr. Smith has his “A” game
What is his “A” Game ?
I’ll settle for saving one more than the other guy eight more times.
Flyers had a damn good team they were missing for the final 58 Goal man Kerr and I believe master checker who could score Dave Poulin was out as well.
Do the Black Aces travel with team on road trips?
I’ve got to presume, yes – at least a few of them that could realistically play if a couple of injuries pile up quickly.
God Only Knows (is right)…
I’ve been watching this replay for 2 days now…
That Duncan Keith pass is brilliant.
Excellent pass by Keith, and how about the area pass by Drai?
Of course Drai is elite, the creme de la creme when it comes to passing on his forehand, backhand, and saucing the puck.
But his area passing is just as insane. Cross-ice dart that stays flat, doesn’t force McDavid to change his trajectory too much, and allows 97 that split second of open ice.
That play and the winning goal in overtime remind me how much this team, particularly that line, has gone beyond the ecstasy of the rush goal and dominates in the O zone. In both goals the player with the puck bounces off coverage and then finds a bit of space for a shot or a return pass. In both replays Lindholm is left standing a bit too far away to be useful defensively. The famous “also in view” player.
The beauty of that goal is apparent, of course, but the circumstances around it, having just had a goal called back on a controversial call, make it organizationally historic – to me.
In the 4 Cup wins in the 80’s (84,85,87,88) the OILERS combined Playoff record was 62-14.
They weren’t just winning Cups, they were smashimg teams on the way ….
My goodness Ray Ferraro is a great analyst. I would encourage all to listen to him on with Gregor in the DFO Rundown from Friday morning.
Irrelevant fact:
FERRARO still holds WHL single season goal mark – 108 🙂
Methinks that Bedard will make a good run at that record next season.
you think he will double his goal scoring?
Probably not double, but will be a significant increase. It’s not as if he was behind anyone on the depth chart, so he won’t get much more ice time than last season.
Given this list of top WHL individual goal-scoring seasons, I can see him slotting in between two other Regina Pats’ seasons, and ahead of Tyson Barrie’s pa. Barring injury, he should have a sensational season, especially considering age / era.
He needs to take a job with Sportsnet.
TSN is irrelevant.
TSN is partially owned by ESPN, which is why he’s the American network’s lead colour commentator.
He also left Sportsnet to go to TSN years ago. I doubt he ever goes back.
He is doing games with ESPN, which has a minority stake in TSN. The end of Rogers Canadian rights deal is not so long from now.
Just win baby.
Prospectipaction!
After North Bay was eliminated Friday, only one Oilers prospect is still playing on NA ice. The Bourg (who some refer to as “Xavier Bourgault”) and his Shawinigan Cataractes have stolen home-ice advantage in their series vs. Quebec, the series tied at 1 as it now moves to Shawinigan.
The Bourg has fashioned a fine postseason with 7-5-12 in 8 matches thus far. Among his seven goals are three game-winners, including his OT goal in Game 2 back on Thursday which tied the series.
Puck drop @ 2 p.m. Ma-Me-O Beach time.
The play he makes previous to his OT goal is absolutely exceptional and is not shown on most replays. From the front of his own goal he send a laser pass to a streaking teammate for a breakaway.
The teammate’s attempt is repelled by the goalie, but not shown is that Bourgault races down the ice after his pass and shows up in the slot on time to receive the pass from his teammate behind the net. You don’t often see a play like that.
Maybe he wanted to be the first to celebrate the breakaway goal, lol. Regardless, he got on his horse and arrived just in time to make the winning deposit. Very impressive play.
I watched the highlights last night, but was watching a lot of prospect videos, so I must’ve got the details mixed up with another play. Sorry about that, I was too late to edit.
Second paragraph should read:
The teammate misses the pass, it goes behind the net where a defender has it, but it is stolen; not shown is that Bourgault races down the ice after his pass and shows up in the slot on time to receive the pass from his teammate behind the net. You don’t often see a hustle play like that.
Replay is here:
https://youtu.be/0fHqH_vsvKw
Ah, Ma-Me-O.
Nice tie-up for yesterday’s discussion LT.
Jason Spezza retires and takes a job in the Leafs front office.
https://twitter.com/MapleLeafs/status/1530915623819259904?s=20&t=TWlaeIpmEJoePrS0cEcwUA
995 POINTS !
I would have got 5 more pts, then quit
Calgary did not defeat the Oilers, the Oilers beat the Oilers.
I’d go further and say the three losses against the Kings also weren’t LA wins.
This team is owning their mistakes.
I’m talking about 1986!
Oh. Well, yes.
Credit where due. The 80s Oilers was the greatest dynasty of all time. Yes, the Flames needed a lucky break to win a seven game series, but they can fairly take credit for playing a series so good against the best team in sports history that one lucky break was able to put them over the top.
Boys are flying to Colorado today. I presume they want to practice their, in the thin air (as that is the point of going early), so I would guess late this afternoon.
Wow really interesting. That’s a move from a team that’s excited to play and wants to win. Take away an extra day from family and friends but the team must be on board with this decision.
Maybe it is good for them to get away from family and friends so they can focus with no distractions.
I hope they didn’t spend a single minute in the last 2 days thinking about hockey or playoffs.
Recharge. Refocus. Explode.
Apparently, at least as reported, some Panther players were out a strip club the night they went down 3-0. WT actual F? This is a business trip and should be treated that way.
I said the last 2 days, not the next 2 days..
I hope they think about it every day until the job is done!
I think it is good to get away from it when it makes sense, like the extra days they just had off. It helps the mind reset and avoid burning out/mental fatigue. Playoffs is a marathon.
I had a football coach that used to think the best preparation was to be serious and angry all the time. But the team played way better when we were relaxed and loose on game day and amped it up just before the game.
Trust your instincts and muscle memory. Your unconscious mind thinks much faster than your conscious mind. Overthink it too much and you will just get in your own way.
Do you suggest locking them up in Hotel rooms. They tried this with the Commies it didn’t work.
I suggest they spend their time preparing for the next four weeks. In 2006, before the finals started in Raleigh, the Oilers flew out East way ahead of time to acclimatize to the time zone and clear their minds. They spent a few days in New York where Slats had opened the Rangers training facilities in Westchester to the Oilers. I went with my kids to watch the practices. Four days before they flew to Raleigh they were preparing away from family and any other diversions. Woody gave them the flight home to celebrate then back to business. That is the way it should be.
Absolutely, they should spend every minute in preparation for the next four weeks.
Of course, vis-a-vis the last couple of days, what the entails will vary between person – some players (and staff) likely benefit from “fully disengaging” (Woody expressed his personal requirement for some “time away”) while others likely benefit from at least some level of engagement – be it physically or mentally or whatever.
I stand to be corrected, but I’m pretty sure there have been strip clubs attended on business trips…….. just saying….
And I betcha them strippers were tax deductible somehow.
No comment…..!
Not sure how relevant this really is (or if it’s appropriate to post) but, as I’ve mentioned before, Kane’s ex was in town for a custody hearing on Friday (she had not seen their daughter since November).
She is VERY active in social media – basically a smear campaign against Evander daily, it’s something else.
Anyways, I don’t know anything official on their hearing but do know that she posted a bunch of broken hearts late in the day on Friday so, I presume the result was favourable for Evander.
I can’t see her ongoing character assassination of the father standing in good stead with the courts.
My parents divorced when I was 1, so I’m too young to have first hand memories of any of the hurtful things they did to each other. Over the years, I’ve heard stories from both of them, and neither of them ever deliberately lied to me, but sometimes I heard the same story from different perspectives, and usually the “good guy” is whoever is telling the story and the “bad guy” is whoever isn’t in the room to tell their side of the story, and the storyteller does not need to lie in order to make it so.
Divorces are messy, ugly, hurtful things, and IMO it is completely normal to behave quite shabbily and shamefully at times while going through them. I know it happens sometimes but I am highly skeptical of narratives that make one person blameless.