The Edmonton Oilers draft seasons are following an unusual pattern. It probably won’t last, but it is very strange. Here it is: Since going to the Stanley Cup in 2006, in a draft where the team has six or fewer selections, it’s a good-to-strong draft with at least one quality player.
Those drafts include 2006, 2007, 2008, 2014, 2015, and 2018. All other drafts from the Stanley run through 2018 had more picks, but overall lacked the kind of success a team hopes for in a year when 8-10 selections are used. Here’s the kicker: The 2019-22 drafts are all six or fewer. I’m sure it’ll dissolve, but that’s a longish coincidence.
THE ATHLETIC!
- New Lowetide: Oilers’ Evan Bouchard is on the edge of stardom
- Lowetide: How many goals will Oilers winger Evander Kane score next season?
- Lowetide: Four Oilers defence prospects applying for one job. Who wins?
- DNB: Oilers depth chart: Where did they improve and where can they make more moves?
- Lowetide: Skinner’s rise shows importance of homegrown goalies
- DNB: Oilers’ Kane, Campbell signings are calculated risks in push for Stanley Cup
- Lowetide: For Oilers forward Dylan Holloway, the future may come early
- DNB: Oilers’ Brad Holland on AGM role, analytics, working with his dad: Q&A
- Lowetide: Oilers top-20 prospects, summer 2022
- DNB: First-round pick Reid Schaefer can bring ‘big-boy hockey’ to his hometown team
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers prospect pipeline needs a post-draft boost
- Lowetide: 5 AHL players who can help the Oilers next season
- DNB: Edmonton Oilers offseason what I think and what I know 1.0
- Lowetide: Remember Oilers’ biggest summer ever? It needs to happen again
- DNB: How Oilers’ draft pick Kelly Buchberger became the long shot who delivered
- DNB: What we’re hearing on Edmonton Oilers’ Puljujarvi, more
- Lowetide: Can Oilers’ Xavier Bourgault make the 2022-23 opening night roster?
- Lowetide: Oilers’ pivotal summer and what fans want to see from Ken Holland
- Lowetide: What Oilers assets should Ken Holland trade this summer?
- DNB: What if Edmonton Oilers trade Jesse Puljujarvi? The case for and against
THE 2018 DRAFT
The 2018 draft has a population of 217 players, divided among 31 teams. That meant seven players per team, so Edmonton’s five was a little shy. The team did have its own first-round selection (No. 10) and a pair of second-round selections (Nos. 40 and 62), allowing Oilers fans some real hope as the weekend began.
I like to have a ‘five-year’ look at a draft, meaning this year (2018) is entering the final year before we make the call on it. Here are things we currently know. The 217 draft picks have yielded 67 NHL players, or a little more than two per team. Edmonton having just five picks is a consideration, but the two second rounders and a top-10 put the club in a good spot to acquire more than an average amount of talent.
So far, Evan Bouchard (102 NHL games) and Ryan McLeod (81) are the two Oilers NHL players. Both look like long-term solutions in important spots and that is absolutely a positive arrow. Bouchard ranks No. 11 in points, McLeod No. 20. This is trending well.
Among the other three picks, Olivier Rodrigue has been good in Austria and the ECHL, but the AHL has proven to be a significant challenge. He is 22 and a big season ahead for him. Mike Kesselring has emerged as a solid prospect, with good arrows. Defensively he’s improving and his wingspan is a big advantage. I like his sneaky offense, too. Patrik Siikanen, a Finnish winger, appears to be lost in the ruokakauppa.
I’ll make the call on the 2018 draft after the 2022-23 season. The 2017 ‘making the call’ article is here (at The Athletic).
THE TKACHUK THING
I was going to write about this yesterday, but wanted to formulate my thoughts a little more. If you read about the history of Edmonton sports, success is tied to other strong teams in the Canadian west. The three or four cities represent a significant block of any league, but if (say) Calgary fades, then Edmonton’s grasp on things becomes more tenuous.
The Edmonton Flyers were a strong team in the pro Western League in the 1950’s and early 1960’s, but the Winnipeg Warriors and Victoria Cougars left the league after 1960-61. The Flyers and Calgary Stampeders left after the 1962-63 season, leaving only the Vancouver Canucks, who survived until entry into the NHL.
Edmonton needs Calgary, and vice versa. A massive talent loss like the one experienced currently down south could be devastating. The team plays in an old arena (the Fenway Park of hockey!) and if some players don’t want to play there (any Oilers fans ever hear that?) then it’s a hurdle that must be overcome in order to succeed.
Let me tell you a story. When it became clear Doug Weight wasn’t going to re-sign in Edmonton, I wrote a post at hfboards about what a fair return would be from the St. Louis Blues. I listed a two-for-one (Pavol Demitra and Jochen Hecht in exchange for Weight) and most thought it was a fine idea. One poster, Diablo Canyon, responded with “you’ll be lucky to get one of those and maybe a couple of extra pieces” and he was far more correct about the deal than my suggestion. Going to market to trade Matt Tkachuk today, with what is known, is a far different deal than it was even a month ago.
You do you, and Flames fans have been mocking Oilers fans forever so at some level the rain was a long time coming. Maybe spend a little time contemplating life without the Flames, with the team in Kansas City. Life becomes more difficult for all western Canadian teams if that happens. History recalls it just this way.
LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON
A busy show today, 10-2 on TSN1260, as we begin to gain momentum for the weekend. Bruce McCurdy at the Cult of Hockey will join us to discuss Tyson Barrie and his role on the 2022-23 Oilers (among other things). We’ll also talk CFL Week 7, second-half mlb and maybe even mention the NFL once or twice. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.
I don’t think that Johnny G is going to age well. The guys that last long are highly highly dedicated to fitness and diet. Johnny is known for the opposite when it comes to fitness. Not sure about diet. Let’s see how long his talent takes him.
That being said, Treliving should have went 8 years instead of the curious 6 on the last deal. At least they’d have him through two more seasons.
It’s not always easy to predict which forwards will age well.
The general rule is to always bet against the power forward. The other axiom is the better offensive player you are, in general, the better you age. Lastly, power play aces age better because it’s easier to continue to be effective on the PP than it is to produce at evens.
Lucic was reportedly a fitness fanatic who consumed a very healthy diet. He lost his hands before everything else.
David Perron really surprised me. He’s not a big guy for his rugged style of play. He’s also not a burner. Yet he had 27 goals and 57 points in 57 games last year during his 33/34 season.
Hossa had a long and productive career until the gunk got him.
Jagr had an illustrious career and at age 50 still plays in the Czech league.
I think he will as he rarely gets hurt doesn’t put himself in vulnerable positions. He’s been in the league 9 years and teams still haven’t figured out how to contain him during the regular season. He’s always made his Centre look good goal wise. I’ll wager he finishes top 10 scoring even though he’s in a new division and environment.
An interesting tidbit from one of the John Gaudreau interviews … he was renting his house. When your star player, and pending UFA is still renting his house after being with the club since his rookie season, the writings on the wall.
The Flames willfully ignored this and left themselves empty handed. This isn’t about players not wanting to play in Canada … the Flames are in the position that they’re in due to managerial incompetence.
Until Canada’s real estate escalation joke of 2021, if you owned a place in Calgary from 2014-2020 you were either breaking even or losing value… so I mean, there’s that.
As an American, there could be tax reasons for doing this.
LT
You are a class act and bring reason and good sense and I thank you for the reasoned thinking you bring to all things! You have made a difference in my life!
That’s quite the contract to which the Habs got Pitlick signed.
PPG is a big deal in arb apparently. Pitlick went .55 two seasons ago and .565 this past season. But he’s only played 66 games in his whole career. Yet if that goes to arb, good chance he gets a number that starts with a 3. Tough call for the Habs, righr?
Now consider JP at .554 ppg and Yams at .506. Also obviously looking at arb awards in that realm.
Well, Piltick signed for $1.1M.
Now these are by no means equivalent situations, but there’s another fantastic comp for Holland in his negotiations and his arb case.
Players seem to be waking up to the cap reality. So far, this has been a magical, charmed summer for the Oilers, with no sign of Murphy or his
curseslaw. Is it too much to hope that our two elder RFAs hop on board the Holland train and sign a helpful number?I made my thoughts on the Flames’ troubles clear on free agency day (summary: HAHAHAHAHAHA).
But looking at it dispassionately, there is no possible way to spin this as anything less than a brutal failure of management.
The only possible way this should have gone down as it did was if the Flames were realistic condenders this year. They had a great season, their best in decades, and they had some surreal individual and group performances. But nobody saw them as core contenders. They were goodish, just like we managed to get to goodish level, and when our two goodish (at that point) teams clashed we ended up smoking them, then bowing out to a clearly superior eventual cup winner. There is no way on Earth you could have thought risking what has happened was worth it.
Treliving was all like “I’m an optimist.”
I mean, good for you.
I see some places suggesting that what we let happen with Nurse is similar to the Tkachuk situation. Well, kind of, in terms of bridge deals, though for different reasons. Nurse ended up with a spectacular contract because the other d-men dominoes fell exactly his way at the time, and I suppose more power to him.
But, um, Nurse is actually going to help hopefully power us to one or more cup wins.
It’s hard to justify the smoking crater in Calgary right now.
Adding, and for once, I don’t say that in a harsh way. I enjoyed the BOA being back. I do actually empathize with Flames fans. A bit. Well, half a bit.
I think I’m at a square root of a bit.
No. Probably not even.
We need to take the example that LT has set and comprehend that what has transpired in Calgary has been mentioned many times as a threat to us as Oiler fans. Humility and empathy for our Albertans to the south are paramount remember that we need to be Alberta strong! I may now live in B.C. but my Alberta roots remain strong!
I love that this was Gaudreau and Tkachuk’s last shift as members of the Flames:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NHL/status/1530048170901880832
That is fair but also understand and have the class to acknowledge the feelings of the Calgary fans!
Highly approve of the Dave Brubeck shoutout for the post title today LT. Love that tune!
Now if you can get Ewanyk playing this type of material on the show alongside your New Order, you’ll be as hip as Fred Flintstone in that ‘skoodely wah wah’ episode.
Poor Dave Brubeck. Everyone thinks he’s playing the sax! 🙂
Just a thought – when Kawhi Leonard left Toronto, the overall reaction was, “we’re bummed out we lost him but how can you blame the guy for wanting to go home?”
If I was a Flames fan, I wouldn’t be mad at the player, I’d be mad at the franchise because they clearly don’t know who he is or what he wants out of life. Players are fungible assets, but they’re people too, and building relationships with and between them pays off.
A relationship can help but leaving a job is often something employees don’t telegraph. Who wants the boss to think you aren’t loyal if things aren’t finalized. The mistake was going all the way to the start of free agency without a backup plan. Kenny had dates that Smith and Keith had to get back to him by. Similar for Klef in previous years. Maybe there was no reasonable backup plan but certainly they seem flat footed now.
Calgary apparently offered more money therefore they did all they could do! This case sets a very scary president. As the saying goes there but for the grace of God go we!
This take ignores the fact that JG was a member of the Flames for years. They had all kinds of time to get to know him. Waiting until a player is a UFA then acting all shocked and butthurt when they exercise their rights as a UFA is, and always has been, a sucker’s move. You deal them with a year left if you can’t resign them. Flames management failed at asset management 101. This is 100% on them.
It’s the exact same mistake Holland made with Larsson.
That’s a great point, Keeper.
It’s also what I consider to be Holland’s greatest strength.
GBM is right that it isn’t foolproof. But it a helluva lot better idea than not knowing your players well enough.
And the Nurse, Nuge, Hyman deals (max term with full NMCs) are very clearly relationship building.
Given what you say is true there were a large group of Oiler fans that were in disagreement with your assessment
Hyman was signed as a UFA – that’s not about relationship building. Nurse was an example of Edmonton almost bungling the entire situation, and “salvaging” it with a very high end contract. Nuge is on a value contract.
Anyways, the contracts themselves are not the relationship building, they are, if you play your hand right, the result of the relationship building.
Finally, I can point out that “Calgary failed in this instance” without also saying “Edmonton has always been perfect.”
I just meant that giving those players long term deals with NMCs helps keep a core of relationships around McDavid and Draisaitl.
Committing long term to players the superstars have built relationships with makes it more likely they’ll re-sign.
Right, I dig.
In fairness, the Raptors had just one their first championship (in franchise history) and Kawhi was playoff MVP. He also was acquired on an expiring contract Not sure this is an apples to apples comparison.
This was from Johnny’s letter: “And this is the truth, I promise: I cherished the time I spent in Calgary. For a long time, Meredith and I saw our future there. We wanted to re-sign last summer. We were looking at homes to start a family. But it just didn’t work out.”
This would suggest that had the Flames counted on a bounce back year and worked harder on a contract extension last summer, they could have locked him up before he went on a tear this season and started second guessing things. That is when the failure occurred, the failure to recognize the major asset that was there. If you look back to the end of the shortened 2021 season, fans and media openly questioned Johnny’s abilities, and the narrative is that the team didn’t want to commit to a long term deal. Sounds a bit like the Jesse situation but the consequences were obviously more dire
IMO teams forget that there is risk in contracts no matter what. Compare how the Oilers handled negotiations with Klefbom with how they negotiated with Nurse. Easy to forget now, but Klef’s contract was kinda risky the day it was signed. Hell, Leon’s contract was a risk the day it was signed (personally I had been expecting 7.5-8 and hoping for 7). For me, the lesson is “by the time the ELC is over, you should usually be either trying to extend them longterm or trying to sign them to an easily tradeable short term contract in order to get the most value from the player as is possible.” That said, I heavily emphasize longterm accumulation of assets with franchise management, plenty of reasonable adults would do things differently.
We need to respect people as such and not as assets! Respect is a two way street!
True but Jesse is not asking for 9-10 mil/year for 8 years…..but a modest 3-4 and has not said he dislikes Edmonton….Gaudreau is no Bison King….
I wonder if Jesse would take the Nick Paul contract. 7/3.15
i would guess not but he’d be tempted.
and I doubt the team would offer it
Can’t know for sure of course, but I’d guess that there’s zero chance Pujo accepts that offer. If he thinks that’s his earning potential for the next 12 months, 3.15–and he might think it’s higher, but it’s certainly within range of a possible arb award—then there’s no way he locks in the next six years at the same amount.
Jesse is likely to get an award in that area in arb (or even a contract offer in that area for a short term) – can’t see why he’d sign at that number for term and almost all UFA years.
I think he would do 3mil/2 years
Really? Wow.
I think that’s very highly unlikely.
Would love to be a fly on the wall to know what’s been offered and asked for though.
I don’t for a second believe that Holland’s “that’s what I’ve gotta sort out” was about whether he was willing to pay him $3M or not.
Bouchard’s next contract.
6 years 30M
8 years 50M
i prefer 6 years
Why do you have the first 6 years at a cap hit of 5 million, then add a couple of 10 mill per year years for the 8 year? And why would one choose that 8 year contract over the 6 year one you laid out?
That’s 8 years 6.25 and a couple UFA years. I’d do that now, offense by d gets paid and the cap won’t be stagnant forever. Bouch’s trajectory will blow that number out of the water. A good agent wouldn’t let him sign that with basic projection.
— this is really go time for the Oilers. McD and Drai on likely the best 20$mm of cap allocation for next three years
— with the cap stagnation these three years relative to most teams with Cup aspirations are the “window”.
— we are now in the stage that McD and Drai have to be the best and the RNH and Nurses Campbells Kanes Hymans play at their expected contract levels.
— If In sum those 7 play to their contract value (or exceed) math cap compression helps us a lot
— has to be a cup appearance in next two seasons I believe.
Yep…over and above the expiration of the Draisaitl contract, aging curves will impact several other players who will be in their 30s.
Of course there is no way of knowing who and how much those impacts will be but they will happen.
For me, it’s unfair to say “has to be playoff success or it’s a failure,” because the NHL is structured to “keep things fair” so that the better teams don’t win as often as they should. JMO of course but I feel there’s a literal ton of evidence to support that position. History shows that in the NHL, the victory does not go to the clearly best teams nearly as often as we would expect, and this effect grows more pronounced in the Playoffs.
How does that sentiment hold up in the salary cap era?
Seems to me the best team wins the cup most of the time.
Exhibit A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidents%27_Trophy#Playoff_implications
Exhibit B:
YEAR CUP WINNER(SEASON RANKING)/RUNNER UP(SEASON RANKING)
2017 Pittsburg(2)/Nashville(16)
2018 Washington(6)/Vegas(5)
2019 St Louis(12)/Boston(3)
2020 Tampa*(4)/Dallas(10)
2021 Tampa(8)/Montreal(18)
2022 Colorado(2)/Tampa(8)
Average regular season finish of Cup-winning team:(2+6+12+8+2)/5=6
Average regular season finish of other finalist (16+5+3+10+18+8)/6=10
I think you are more likely to win a Cup by being one of the top 10 teams in the league for 10 years than you are by being the best team in the league for two years.
*not counted towards this study as they were definitely-not-cheating by being 18M over the cap. The 2020-1 Bolts are the Maradona of hockey teams (that is not intended as a compliment).
This totally ignores the differences between divisions and conferences.
Those were league standings, zero care is given to divisions and conferences. If the NHL was a league that rewarded being the best team, we would expect the best teams to win the most often, and finish the highest in the standings. My argument was “the NHL makes sure the best team wins less often than they should.” I feel I made a pretty solid case that SOMEthing prevents the best teams from winning as often as one would expect. I actually intended to go all the way back to the salary cap start but didn’t bother because the numbers backed my position up better than I expected them to, feel free to complete my research if you want, it’s easy if tedious.
As I think about it, I guess maybe you’re arguing “league standings don’t show who the best team is” but that actually reinforces my point. It’s the NHL that has chosen how to run their schedule, and how to give Bettman points for overtime losses, and make sure to give more calls to teams that are behind, and to ignore non-dangerous penalties against star players, etc etc etc etc etc etc etgoddamncetera. If your argument is “league standings don’t show who the best team is,” my reply is, “I agree, and I also think playoff standings don’t show who the best team is, because I think the NHL is a kayfabe league and is completely unworthy of the best hockey players on Earth.”
This is an understandable take coming from someone that is simultaneously surfing the 10 bandwagons of the 10 hottest teams in the most recent 1/4 season. You have 10 best teams that are better than the Oilers at any given moment and yes, usually one one those teams wins the cup. We get it. The Canucks have never delivered and you need 10 lines in the water to enjoy the league.
Current narratives: flames will take a year off, re-set and be contenders while the Oilers are effed due to aging curves.
Damn, wish I was a flames fan these days…. being an Oilers fan really sucks, even after the intel from Frank on how the league and the players currently view the org….
Haha aging curves? I’m genuinely puzzled by that one. If I wanted to troll Oilers fans I’d be all like “nyah nyah, the goalie you’re so happy with is the same one the Leafs could have signed at that same contract, but chose not to.” Not much of a troll I guess, but tat’s my biggest worry of the off-season.
Not a criticism of Holland or Campbell, I just see goaltending as being a huge gamble in the NHL, even with the same goalie from month to month and year to year. If we had signed Kuemper I’d be chewing my fingernails too, because the Oilers rely on their goalie more than I would like them to. For me the NHL solution is ‘build a team that is so good at hockey that they will usually win with mediocre goaltending’ and that’s a weird take coming from a goalie and a guy who grew up building his teams from the net out.
It’s a good take though.
It took the Avs a decade of building under Sakic and multiple high high end draft picks in order to finally have playoff success.
I find it hilarious that two presumably grown men are reduced to sniping at each other in the comments section of a blog. Even funnier is after being threatened with a ban by the blogs author if the children address each other any more, They dive even deeper into the adolescent world by ripping each other via third party comments. I can remember similar behaviour from my kindergarten days!
It’s not really that funny. One is a diehard Oilers fan on an Oilers fan website (normal) and the other is a diehard Troll whose best trolling days are behind him (sad).
LOL – I haven’t talked directly at him in months – one comment on the thread topic and you decide you need to log in for your one post of the day, shit, of the week, to provide your opinion on it.
I wonder who’s behaviour should be analyzed.
Good Grief!
— I guess it depends on what you mean by “clearly best team”. Sure it’s often not the President Cup winner that wins the Cup but for the last 25 years virtually every year it’s been an elite team for a number of years that wins. St-Louis is about the only one that doesn’t fit this. Colorado, Boston, Pitts. Washington, Tampa, Detroit, etc.
— There is a lot of parity by design but still the Cup has done a good job for a long time in identifying a team that had a very good year, after knocking on door for many years
— So this is what I mean. After the semis this year, should Edmonton win next year they clearly are in this camp.
— I think it’s more likely they knock on the door again before winning but these next 3 years is our time IMO.
— Unless it goes really bad and injuries I see this organization as a rightful Cup winner at some point: that’s how the Cup has been won for many years.
Some real good points here. You’re right, nowadays most season there isn’t a universally agreed-on “best team.” Even arbitrary things like “top 5” fluctuate a lot year by year. Probably best off with “expected to: win Cup -> contend for Cup -> make a run -> win a round -> make the playoffs -> hopefully make the playoffs -> retooling -> rebuilding -> holy crap Buffalo why you do dat? -> decade of darkness -> factory of sadness.” At least the Browns will always be the low bar.
-Yeah, there’s some truth to that narrative, but there are also teams like the Sharks who really ought to change their name to the Blueballs cause holy crap so good for so long and so close but nothing. I can’t think of any others off the top of my head though but I haven’t been following much. It also supports the notion that you are better off being a top 10 team for 10 years than being the best team for 2 years. When I think about the kind of assets Calgary spent to go from being in their minds, what, the 10th best team to the 5th best team for one season, I think the idea of “identify your Cup window and spend everything possible on it,” is inferior to the idea of “get good players, keep good players, don’t lose good players unless it’s on your terms, when you know you will lose a good player immediately start working on getting the best value possible in return.” JMO
-Hockey is momentum-based. I know it’s true, but I can’t quantify it. You might be right and I hope you are.
-For me, there have been too many moments where I have been unable to pretend I don’t know the ref wasn’t trying to call the game. Most of them were not dangerous and only a few of them were directly game-altering and only one of them was series altering (I’m looking at you Kesler, and your hand on Talbot’s pad, and the NHL reviewing the play for like three seconds then calling it a good goal, that decision was not made in that manner in good faith by competent adults desiring a fair outcome, and I’m not even saying anything about the lesser yet still obvious zebra jobs leading up to that pivotal moment in that series so count yourself lucky.) I don’t trust game management and damn sure don’t think the NHL should be managing games while profiting off people wagering on the outcomes. I think the reason the NHL is so secretive is because they know silence makes them look better than the truth would.
Worth noting…the Oilers have been rebuilding for 12 years after drafting Taylor Hall 1st overall and having 4 #1 picks in that period.
Define “rebuilding”.
You seem to use the term as if the Oilers are still rebuilding?
You are rebuilding until you win win a cup.
That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The Leafs are apparently rebuilding since 1967. Is Mats Sundin going to play with Auston Matthews this season?
Guess 31 teams are rebuilding every season then.
So you spent the last few days coming up with nonsensical arguments that the Flames were “resetting” instead of rebuilding, and now they are rebuilding.
Sounds about right for you.
Multiple Hart trophies, art Ross’s, playoff appearances, with *check notes* good to great players signing value contracts in order to continue to build on the winning.
Vancouver has been rebuilding for 50 years, Calgary is a laughing stock, Vegas is embarrassing, Minnesota is buried in rebuild, Dubas is being played a fool..
Consider giving up note taking and perhaps turn to knitting.
And nary a Stanley Cup.
Said the Vancouver Canucks, Forever.
I guess that franchise has been in a perpetual state of “rebuild” since its inception.
Don’t you ever get tired of being an idiot?
Vancouver will get one someday. Take heart!
*Checks their roster*
. . . Not sure you can get there from here.
. . .
I really can’t believe Calgary ownership is letting Treliving continue to operate. He should have been turfed as soon as Goudreau left. He’s going to be responsible for maximizing the Tkachuk trade?
Teams do often take calculated risks in keeping pending UFAs for playoff runs rather than trading them. In this case there was also a decent chance (they thought) of retaining him. Calgary was trying to make a serious run though, and bought at the deadline.
Trelivig holding Gaudreau is surely no worse than Zito in Florida sending out 2 firsts, a third and Tippett for a 2nd round exit.
Edit: he may also have had the blessing of ownership in not moving Gaudreau.
The mistake wasn’t made last season, it was the year before. No deal you have to trade the player with a year left to protect your team’s interests
If they won’t sign the risk is too high
Yes, I meant to be inclusive of previous summer through deadline.
I hear you, there’s a good argument for moving those guys proactively. Just saying that teams often do make those decisions to keep UFAs without extensions for another kick at the can (Cup).
There’s lots of examples. Colorado did it with Landeskog, Carolina with Hamilton, St. Louis with Pietrangelo. Fair enough that it’s not good asset management, but it’s not uncommon and I don’t see why in this case it would be a fireable offense.
He could have signed Johnny last summer. JG said that today. But because the Flames missed the playoffs Tre wasn’t going to reward them at that time and king wanted them to prove they were worth extending. It backfired as Chuck and Guadreau as well as others had career years. The shoe was on the other foot now, and they both basically gave Tre the finger.
I hear what you’re saying but he flubbed the negotiations with him and didn’t get certainty. They must have known this was a possible outcome.. Otherwise he wasn’t doing his job.
He also pooched it with Tkachuk. 2/3 of the top line gone, 200 points. That’s a dismissable offense as far as I’m concerned.
If that happened to the oil we’d be calling for Holland’s head.
But knowing that was a possible outcome and still keeping Gaudreau is exactly what I was trying to say.
GMs let high end players walk to UFA without trading them all the time. Look at the who’s who of UFAs every year, tons of them were held onto by their teams and then let walk for nothing.
There’s probably a few exceptions, but a large majority of GMs in the league have done that exact thing.
You seem to think Treliving didn’t realize Johnny walking was a possibility, but surely he did (even if he believed until the 12th hour that he also had a chance to re-sign him). I’m saying he did know it could happen, but still chose not to trade him. And that making that decision puts him in a group with most other GMs in the league.
That alone isn’t a fireable offense (folks have been calling for Holland’s head this calendar year for far less, so that’s not really a worthwhile comparison).
Anyway, I’m not intending to defend Treliving’s larger body of work here. I just don’t think Gaudreau leaving like he did reflects that badly on him. There was lots of drama around it, but in the big picture it’s the kind of thing that happens around the league all the time and that most GMs have done/had happen to them.
Treliving has been pretty good with trades I think. He turned Hamilton into Hanifin and Lindholm in a somewhat similar situation.
In this case he is more limited by the trade demand and limited places Tkachuk will sign a long term deal with, but Tkachuk also has more value.
The Flames should be able to return a good player or two. Still likely to be a big downgrade though. 🙂
That was Peters doing he knew Lindholm was ready to pop.
Hamilton (who was coming off 67 points) and Fox and Ferland (who had just scored 21 and healthy).
Yes, I know Fox wasn’t signing, but still.
Part of Calgary’s problem is indeed its ownership
Re: Calgary Flames exodus:
I am not sure if this is a US vs Canada thing.
I think old time coach Darryl Sutter may be having an impact here.
Could be wrong….
I think it is Treliving’s keenness at grinding his RFAs to get the cheapest deal possible.
Gaudreau said he “Got screwed” on his last contract on an old Spitting Chiclets podcast.
If Treliving would have been a little generous, he probably could have signed Johnny to 8 years instead of 6 and we wouldn’t be having this conversation right now.
I remember a few Oilers fans being upset about Draisaitl being overpaid on his contract compared to comps. I might have have been one of them. No one is complaining now.
Lots of complaints about the Nurse contract. It may end up turning out badly, or it might never get mentioned in five years. In the NHL, loyalty is bought and paid for.
Flames fans applauded the cheapskate Gio high bar limits on contracts where nobody makes more than the Captain. How’s that working out for you Brad? If I’m Magpie I ask for a extra Million a year on a long term contracts while Brad’s reeling
Whatever his value on the ice, the Nurse contract will never not be a failure in cap management. Opportunities abounded to have locked Nurse in at a killer AVG.
Upside is Oil own every productive season this player will ever have. Here’s wishing Nurse a career arc comparable to that of Chara, Chelios, Leetch, Jagr, Keith. Heck throw in some Howes.
How does that 1st for Toffoli and the 2nd, 3rd and 7th for Jarnkrok look now?
I thought Toffoli would fit right in he ended up being invisible as for Jarnkrok Brad should be fired for what he paid for this useless player.
I think the oilers should be going for it like that too. Sometimes it does not work out, but cup contending years are few and far between. Use draft capital to clear cap.
Look at how WSH loaded up in 2017, fizzled, then won in 2018.
Up till now the Oilers weren’t close enough to do so, but this coming season might be the year to go all in. We have some decent prospects I the system, so might be able to get by without high draft picks for a couple of years.
Yes, of course, the time is now but, at the same time, they will have all but no cap space at the deadline – they will be in LTIR, accruing no cap space, not able to pro rate contracts, etc.
Any material in-season additions will require some creative structuring, that’s for sure.
I don’t think the best team in the NHL has much better of a chance than the sixth best team in the NHL to win the Cup. For me, it’s better to maintain a roster that can compete every year than to blow your load on one shot. JMO
They’re both looking really bad. Really, really bad.
Hindsight being 20/20, I would say there was a gross overpayment on those trades.
Will Matt’s Father chuck his favorite cap on the ice when he scores a hatty for St.Lou? Will MacT be whispering into his ear “fuck Calgary” with back slaps all season long?
Lucic is now a 1st line winger again, guess they did win the trade.
When Calgary has to move Toffoli will they be able to get back 1st round pick and prospect?
Does Markstrom’s glove recover or is it forever in Koskinen Land?
Will Calgary have to pay Mangiapane 10million a season to save face?
McDavid’s overtime goal just keeps on giving.
Haha I think paying Mangiapane 10 mill is the opposite of saving face.
Also, I think Markstrom is a better goalie than he has looked against Edmonton. For me, it’s not “Oilers proving that Markstrom sucks,” it’s “Oilers proving that they can make great NHL goalies irrelevant if their opponent’s defense isn’t world-class.” JMO
Other than that, holy crap, savage Flames mauling! I feel like the linesmen should step in, or the trainer should throw in the towel, or someone should call the Police or something 🙂
Flames are done for a long time….
The Flames conundrum is that then have a GM and coach who are basically in NOW mode, while with Gaudreau and Tkachuk gone, the team on the ice really needs to restructure.
Gaudreau and Tkachuk were never going to be good enough anyways considering where Colorado and the Oilers are. In some sense, Gaudreau leaving was the best thing that could have happened for the medium to long term.
Now I am not advocating doing what Chicago just did, but the Flames have to opportunistically offload over time players to accumulate high draft picks, prospects, and cap space.
Like if a contender comes looking for a goaltender (Markstrom) or a D (Hanifin) or basically anyone, they have to consider trading them.
For example, right now, acquired van Riemsdyk and the 1st round draft pick for very little going out, might be a good idea.
Tarasenko, a 1st, and Kyrou and maybe a bit more for Tkachuk is a reasonable good idea.
One would be sitting with three first round picks in next years draft.
#justsaynoah
Having your best player walk for nothing should cost Treliving his job
I suppose teams have to cater to players, especially Canadian teams, but for me I don’t head into a terminating contract year without a signed extension
Because it’s franchise crippling
I hope Holland is smarter. If one or both of the dynamic duo want to walk they HAVE to get assets for them, while under term, and not screw that up. There is no need for another DoD
Holland let RNH play out the final year of his deal before resigning him.
I would say RNH is a nice to have though and not a franchise cornerstone. Hyman and Kane are comparable players acquired through free agency in the last couple of years alone.
Pat Steinberg
@Fan960Steinberg
·
25m
This is my understanding of the Tkachuk/#Flames timeline:
-Tkachuk camp informed Calgary late last week they don’t intend to sign long-term.
-Calgary decided to go to arbitration to avoid a July 22nd QO deadline.
-Team has been working with potential trade partners since then.
With all this talk about US players wanting to get back to the US as soon as possible, maybe Holland is a genius, foresaw this and pre-empted any issue with picking Broberg over Zegras, Boldy, Knight, Caufield…….
LOL.
I actually wondered the same earlier today. Was it a factor..? Especially considering Meanashell’s comments on the National program below.
I wonder how nervous Leafs fans are feeling…..
I think Matthews is pretty happy there, but the TO media will be angst-driven, regardless.
I mean, coming off his ELC Matthews signed a 5 year deal that only bought TO one UFA season.
They should be pretty nervous, no?
Well, one thing we can be sure about: he’s not going to force a trade back to his hometown…
Lol.
We’ll be hearing about all the cap space they have to weaponize soon enough.
Matthews is for sure leaving. He will want to win a Cup, and with the Tavares contract, it is impossible in Toronto. The Leafs also have no pipeline, since they have been trading all their 1st round draft picks to manage the cap.
Before the 2022 playoffs I had forgotten just how simple/hard it is to win a cup. Now, seeing Oilers dominate right up until they fell short, having the best players on the ice remains the key to winning. And the best players almost always or certainly seem to come from the top 5 of any draft year.
Leafs have assembled a top heavy team with little grit to them. They will continue to be regular season darlings.
I think the Broberg pick was specifically made because they knew about Oscars shoulder for years.
The assumption being made here is that JG left Calgary to leave Canada for the US. Given the “we” > “me” culture of hockey, making assumptions on what a player is willing to say publicly seems short sighted at best, and is also based on a very small sample size of one right now.
What else do we not know about the Flames clubhouse, locker room and culture….? Was leaving Canada a primary factor or the best scrubbed and sanitized reason he could say out loud?
Would love to hear what he says after a half bottle of lemon gin….. because you know he drinks that….
Johnny wouldn’t drink lemon gin.
He is more of a Skittles Vodka Cocktail kinda guy.
I mean some USA players can be a flight risk, but the Flames had Conroy settle in Calgary after his career was over.
I’m not sure about Tkachuk, but Gaudreau wanted to re-sign with the Flames last summer.
If Treliving hadn’t nickel and dimed him at every opportunity I think Gaudreau would still be in Calgary.
Completely avoiding the huge talent pool of American born players would be a mistake IMO.
Haha does hijacking the troll’s narrative count as feeding the troll?
Staples making some good points about the Kane arb case.
By Holland letting him go to market prior to signing, Kane can claim to an arbitrator that he did his due diligence as far as future earnings go.
I was digging Johnny’s letter, taking him at face value, then he ruined his credibility by citing the flames as “one of the NHL’s most storied franchises”…… just kidding…. kind of.
Storied compared to the Canucks!
Calgary’s ownership is looking penny wise and pound foolish right now.
Why the protracted fight to extract a few more dollars here or there from the city for a new arena?
I’m not saying Tkachuk or Gaudreau would have stayed, but first rate facilities is something *all* organizations should aspire to.
Also, old timey Sutter works fine in LA, but if you’re Calgary maybe not the best choice in terms of developing rapport with players.
I really don’t buy that this is exclusively an American player thing. Calgary is a great city. I really think this is more on management/ownership than anything else.
Agreed, shovels would be in the ground already had the ownership not walked away. Surely they would have made the 3xtra $6 to $10 mil in costs back by having the new arena in place earlier. Now costs are probably even going higher. Oilers are lucky to have Katz who doesnt cheap out on spending and is mostly decisive when decisions need to be made. I sometimes think Treliving wasn’t fired last summer because the owners didn’t want to be paying 2 GM salaries at the same time.
Katz subtly threatened to move the team if tax dollars weren’t poured into the project.
He had to take out a full page apology.
A little bit of success and we forget the sins of the fathers…
This is very true Jethro. The city gave Katz a smokin deal!
Edmonton got a decent deal compared to most arena/stadia deals. The associated investment in downtown has been a lot more than anticipated. And over time it will ameliorate the doughnut hole problem Edmonton has.
With Blatchford and the LRT lines north and west, the entire older sections of Edmonton inner northwest are poised for redevelopment, intensificaiton, and gentrification and tax revenue appreciation, with major infrastructure already in place and paid for.
The new downtown arena and the closing of the airport will over time be shown to be critical for Edmonton’s future success.
The flight from major North American megacities has already begun.
Western Canada will eventually be a major beneficiary of this.
Yes but we still need to curtail the urban sprawl that Edmonton seems to be addicted to..
The GTA curtailed the sprawl, and the place is unaffordable for the upper middle class on downwards.
If Canada is taking in 1% of the population per year in immigration, there is going to be sprawl.
To keep prices affordable, one needs both intensification and sprawl.
Alberta is fortunate in that it has the entire corridor between Edmonton and Calgary. And Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg.
There is no land in BC. And they landlocked the GTA with a well intended greenbelt, but they same people want massive immigration. And those same people block intensification in their neighborhoods in Toronto.
This is a bizarre take.
GTA is expensive because of terrible zoning laws.
Sprawl really isn’t the answer. Story in the G&M recently talked about how Edmonton council was looking at adjusting property taxes to account for the fact that homes on the outskirts on average are a net drain on city coffers, while homes in the core (predominantly higher density) were a net plus.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-edmonton-alberta-property-tax/
Same thing is happening everywhere, including Toronto. Emailed the city about this disparity and of course no reply.
People like me living in apartments are subsidizing others. Toronto runs the city on development fees and people living in higher density while low density dwellers get a relatively sweet ride wrt property tax. It doesn’t make any sense fiscally, ethically, philosophically, environmentally, etc. which is why I’m not holding my breath for it to change 🙂 Edmonton is very smart to look into this.
People still buy in Toronto. Might not be a big home, particularly as a first time home owner, but it’s also arguable how much space one needs when there are not kids in the picture. Some people could never be happy in an apartment/condo, but I wouldn’t be happy in a detached home. Different strokes, etc.
Some people move outside, but keep in mind, I live in Midtown Toronto and I’m equidistant from downtown and some of my family living in Markham. Those moving outside city limits aren’t *that* much further away.
The GTA curtailed the sprawl? The GTA has some of the worst sprawl in the country and continues to sprawl. Sprawl is ecologically disastrous, expensive, and bad for your health (among other things).
The GTA is expensive because of a multitude of reasons, none of which are solved by sprawl. The yellow belt is a larger hurdle to home affordability in the GTA than the green belt.
Colour me skeptical. City planning in Edmonton is a disaster.
Where is central planning successful? Still looking for that place…
Shanghai is a great city.
A gilded cage is still a cage.
Besides, their property market is beginning to implode. There’s nothing sustainable about China’s planned economy.
I would love to see actual data backing this claim.
Absolutely.
People who look at great civic projects as a time and money sink are missing not just part of the picture, but pretty much all of it.
To be fair, I was pretty stressed about something else when I wrote that comment and hope my comments are not normally that unhelpful. Political essays are way out of line so I’ll just say I acknowledge there is more nuance to the issue, but I 90%-ish stand by my basic sentiment of hostility towards billionaires.
I don’t necessarily agree with subsidizing billionaires, but I do believe in high quality civic projects improving city life. Look at a smattering of great civilizations — Greaks, Romans, the Italians during the Renaissance, Indians, Chinese, the British Empire, etc. — they all valued beautiful public buildings.
As a society, we have become hyper-utilitarian and have completely de-valued beauty in our public spaces. We don’t ask, what is the best and most beautiful thing we could make that will still be standing in 100 years? We ask, what is the cheapest possible thing that will do the job? Who are the cheapest architects? Who is the cheapest construction contractor?
Quality is lost — you see it everywhere, I’m not talking just Edmonton — and it’s tremendously sad. There is an abstract (and real) cost to making that compromise!
The arena district is a good enough start. Now do the same thing with parks, libraries, and other public spaces. I love that Saskatoon built that new art museum recently. Haters will say, why do you need Picassos in the Prairies? That’s a garbage mentality, imo.
We have so many great cities in this country, more of them should be bold about taking some risks and getting things built.
Several really smart people have tried to convince me it isn’t bad to spend vast amounts of wealth on architecture rather than lifting people out of poverty, so I’m pretty sure my emotions are clouding my thinking. FWIW I’m not against architecture and I really want to reward striving/accomplishing/innovating, I just think that a) people matter more than buildings, and b) buildings are built by people, and happy, free, educated, well-adjusted adults who live in competently-governed, functional democracies will build the best buildings.
Several years ago I was in Toronto and went to an amazing Hindu temple. Every exposed surface was intricately hand-carved. The marble had been quarried in Italy, shipped to India, hand-carved, shipped to Canada, and assembled. All of the wood was teak and had a similar backstory. Every carving was relevant and meaningful. It was amazingly beautiful and if you’re in the area you should see it, it’s awesome. I had to hide my reactions because they might have been offensive. It kind of broke my heart – India, at the time, didn’t have a flushing toilet in every home, and had levels of poverty and corruption that make Canada seem like a paradise in some ways, yet a bunch of its wealthier citizens had chosen to spend their limited time and resources on constructing a building and shipping it halfway around the world rather than improving the lives of their friends and neighbours. Not to pick on India or Canada or anyone else or troll anybody. Basically I want a utopian, Star Trek-style society where we enjoy free food, shelter and health care and work because we want to to better ourselves and society. How come you can’t vote for someone who wants to do that? I call shenanigans! While I’m at it, I think the buildings we should be spending on are in space. Right now we talk about fossil fuels like they’re energy – we harvest a fraction of a percent of the energy our star emits. Let’s build a dyson swarm and harvest 99% of it! A quadrillion humans living in a trillion space stations with big solar panels attached to them forming a big ball around the solar system and living with a level of wealth and power we would consider Godlike. We could be building the first station right now! Well, we could be spending trillions on working out the engineering problems that still exist, which would eventually lead to the first station. Haha I guess I’m okay with spending money on buildings instead of people if you put the buildings in space! I’m gonna have to think about that.
In unrelated news, my brownie kicked in. Almost didn’t post this, sorry for the rambliness, hope it was interesting. If you want to know more about dyson swarms, grab a drink and a snack and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlmKejRSVd8 I’ll come back when I’m more coherent. Thanks for your indulgence.
Tough for them to argue they NEED a shiny new arena when Arizona is playing out of a 5000 seat college arena they don’t control naming rights or advertising on. The NHL is such an obviously corrupt and crappy organization. If I was PM I’d pass a law stating that any public dollars going to buy for-profit infrastructure must be paid back, double, before anyone gets to realize any profit on their “investment”. Then there would never be a city held hostage by the NHL again.
And then they would build all the nice rinks in the States and nobody would want to play in Canada.
The PM can’t do this.
Sorry I was out of line with that one. I’d do that, but I won’t make statements like that here. Don’t want to mix politics in my hockey. Apologies all around, I didn’t realize at the time that I was rageposting a bit.
Calgary City council kept moving the goalposts. A deal was never a deal with them. Edwards let them move the goalposts a couple of times, but “fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me”.
Edwards won’t move the team. With a hard cap, he can operate such that he will never lose much money. The problem will com when he wants to sell. The new owner will have incredible leverage.
I simply cannot let go of the fact that Chychrun might be available. The player and contract are simply too good not to add to this team to push for Stanley.
Trading Jesse only makes sense to me if he is included in a package for a better player.
Barrie – to make the money work
Jesse
2023 1st Rounder
2023 3rd Rounder
Depth prospect
For
Chychrun
Whatever depth RW Arizona has that balances things out.
I think this deal is another step toward Stanley.
Grateful for your feedback.
Perfect since Oilers lose a perpetually whining player.
Barrie isn’t a whiner his play in the D zone has really improved. Oilers are getting full value for the 4.5 million he’s being paid. Lots of folks crap on Barrie unjustly he’s not going anywhere.
Barrie is OK with me.
It’s Puljujarvi and his clown show that wears on me.
How nice would it have been if he turned out like the Finn we drafted in the 4th round back in 1983.
That’s a pretty good bundle. After the roster players, I’d lead with two 2nds and Lavoie. Let it simmer.
How about:
-Jessie, Foegle, Samorukov and a 2024 1st for Chycrun
Then sign a cheaper LW like Sonny Milano/Danton Heinen; or C/RW Rodrigues.
Switch the depth prospect with Broberg and they MAY think about it.
I think its too expensive given recent regression by the player and major injury history.
There is a lot of Chychrun love around
Is he really that good a player? Where did I read he’s somewhat sheltered) He’s had 3 knee surgeries already (47 games last season)
He’s basically a better and a bit bigger and less healthy Barrie. Not a strong first pair D, a decent offensive leaning top 4
Not that I wouldn’t have him, but I wouldn’t sell the farm for him either
My thoughts exactly. This guy has a horrific injury history and Arizona has made him out to be a player that walks on water.
If it wasn’t for his contact in not sure the ask would be so high. Too much risk IMO.
Exactly – he had one good season on a bottom feeding team, with no pressure to win.
Arizona’s top prospect generally do not go on to flourish once they leave that mess, which speaks to how you can have all the 1st round picks you want, but if your organization is a mess, then it just becomes a prospect graveyard.
He also an American, with a modified-NTC starting in the 2023 season … just saying.
I think Calgary has obvious trouble and some hidden trouble.
Obvious trouble
1 Johnnie, Gio left and they got zero in return.
2 Tkachuk’s was going to be the captain- but now going.
3 First line is in shambles
Hidden Trouble
1 They don’t have a number 1 defenseman and they had two #1 (Hamilton/Fox)
2 Sutter wins but players love OR hate Sutter
3 They have Pelletier, Wolf and Zany on the system and that is it.
4 The Swedish wifes are stirring it up
Extra trouble
Their management team just lost a marquee player for nothing like a bunch of chumps.
Their management team seems forced to trade another marquee player – cheese prices in Calgary seem about to drop.
The NHL is a reputational league. Whether you deserve your rep or not, it matters a lot. This could give Calgary a reputation as a place “players don’t want to play.”
Both Rasmus Anderson (53P +30) and Noah Hanafin (48P +27) are legitimate top pairing D.
https://theathletic.com/3071457/2022/01/26/wheelers-2022-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-calgary-flames/
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/gotta-see-mcdavid-scores-ridiculous-no-look-goal-flames/
Hanafin looked solid here.
I’d like to hear more about the Swedish wives.
“The three or four cities represent a significant block of any league, but if (say) Calgary fades, then Edmonton’s grasp on things becomes more tenuous.”
Calgary survived during Edmonton’s Decade of Darkness and decided they want one of their own. Surely Edmonton can help prop up the West while Calgary gets it’s shit together.
It would be grim if McDavid and Draisaitl left though and both Calgary and Edmonton had zero superstars or attractive talent to play with.
But McDavid and Draisaitl strike me as entirely different personalities than Gaudreau and Tkachuk.
Listening and reading how Gaudreau decided to go to Columbus over other destinations was pretty surprising. Sounded like he didn’t care where he landed as long as it wasn’t Calgary.
McDavid on the other hand, after hearing the story about how he was 8 years old and was complaining to his Mom about how other kids on the team were talking about tv shows and weren’t focused, I’m guessing he will want to go where he has the best chance of winning. As long as Holland doesn’t Chiarelli it up I think Edmonton will be okay in retaining Draisaitl and McDavid.
On the one hand, the NHL pretty clearly seems to take their Canadian fanbases for granted.
On the other hand, the NHL has to be aware that their relevance in Canada has been declining for at least 20 years. You gotta think at some point in time this starts to concern them.
The second Canada isn’t the Golden Goose the folks that run the NHL will not give a Tinker’s Cuss about the Canadian teams
The USians, Russians and English (I don’t mean to offend anyone that posts here, just my observations) are from powerful, dominant or formerly dominant countries. And as such they are devoted to their countries in a different way than folks from ‘normal’ countries. They mostly don’t give a shit for or think about other countries much from my experiences. Fair enough
I am confident Bettman doesn’t care that Canada started hockey. He tolerates our complaints and concerns about being true to the game and making it right, pure, the booing. He’s a businessman and says the reffing and everything else is great
That some teams being allowed to attempt cap circumvention and the resulting blemish on the league’s rep as something other than bush league doesn’t matter and everybody is ok with it as it is
If it gets to where players, who play a winter sport, won’t play in wintery countries and cities because lifestyle, they’ll do squat to support the continuation of our franchises up here
They’ll all move south excepting maybe Toronto or be sold south where all the owners live anyway and the TV money is
Agreed, and I think that second happened about 10-20 years ago
Yup
Preach it
Funny thing about corruption – everyone’s okay with it until suddenly they aren’t. I believe the day is approaching when people will suddenly not be okay with how the NHL manages their games while trying to persuade their fans to gamble on them.
True dat
Amen
Signing Nurse, Hyman and RNH long term will be a factor in the Leon and Connor negotiations. I sure hope the better half of Leon and Connor enjoy the City of Edmonton.
Fairly easy solution: Avoid peroxide.
Tkachuk has informed the Flames officially that he will not re-sign long term. Per The Athletic.
Wow.
The 2018 draft is a massive win in my opinion.
Evan Bouchard, with a year left on his ELC has already established himself as a high end offensive producer at evens and we haven’t even scratched the surface of one of his top skills – the PP.
Yes, his defensive game is “uneven” but, my goodness, he’s 22 – Codi Ceci, for example, has just come in to his own defensively at 26-28.
I have little doubt that Evan Bouchard is going to be a legit first pairing d-man for many years.
Is he a “better pick” than Dobson or Ty Smith – in my opinion, 100%, yes.
Ryan McLeod also looks like a slam dunk win as a 2nd rounder – on the cusp of solidifying himself as a legit 3C with upside during his ELC – money!
I also have decent thoughts on Kesselring – nope, he’s no sure thing to “make it” but I think that he has a WIDE range of skills and actually has a higher ceiling if he does put it all together. He’s a “rangy d-man” and I saw big development during his rookie pro season – he started to “find his game” in the 2nd half, moving the puck with authority. Years to go on this prospect.
2 legit impact players plus the chance for another NHL player – out of 5 picks? Yes!
Dobson is tracking pretty well as a player. He very well could end up being a top pairing d man for awhile. It will be interesting in another 10 years to see which d man from that draft had the best career.
I’ll take Bouchard over Dobson and Ty Smith when it comes to career points. Bouchard is a point magnet the type of player that gets 3 assists and isn’t a star in that particular game.
What I remember about the 2018 draft was the number of small, skilled dmen and the arguments about the value of taking small dmen, compared to bigger dmen.
Chia and friends were grinning ear to ear when they saw Bouchard was still there. There were right.
Who’s Codi Ceci?? 😉
Friends with Conner McDavid….
In that case, his drinks are on me and his girlfriend is off-limits!
I can’t criticize American players for wanting to stay south of the border. I feel the exact same way. You couldn’t pay me enough money to live in the US.
I hear you. I have lived here for 20 years.
How are they keeping you there against your will? We can send a rescue party….?
It’s the money. It’s always the money!
Bravo Bag of Pucks! I’m 100% with you.
Apologize for the duplication on this topic. The first post got held up in moderation purgatory so I just assumed it would die on the ‘Lost’ island and I fired out the truncated version.
Depends on the place. Lived in NYC for a year and loved it. Chicago is lovely.
I wouldn’t live in Florida.
I lived in NYC/Greenwich CT for 20 years, it was ok. I currently live in Florida and I kind of like it but probably because there are so few Americans here, Miami is a city of ex-pats.
I am a snowbird and live in rural Florida for 6 months a year. I try to stay in my bubble most of the time but do enjoy the weather that time of year !!
I can’t criticize American players for wanting to stay south of the border. I feel the exact same way. You couldn’t pay me enough money to live in the US.
Like the British and Roman empires before them, we’re starting to see the early warning signs of a failing empire imo. A key indicator is the inability to elect strong leaders. Combine this with a populace so militantly divided and it doesn’t bode well for stable nation building.
As a Canadian, I equate this with living next door to a violent couple who regularly erupt into domestic disturbance. Eventually there’s going to be collateral damage. Given the breadth of the US military industrial complex, this is not an outcome any Canadian is eager to see. As always, this is just one man’s opinion and your mileage may vary.
The US propaganda machine is also in full swing to make people think things are better over there compared to other places like Canada. It also doesn’t help that people are becoming more reliant on media personalities or celebrities for information than actual experts on the topic.
To be fair, the US of A does have pockets of progressivism and I see them being aware of the disconnect between data and spin. Their country has slid down the rankings a long way in key quality of life indicators. You’re not hearing “the greatest country in the world” rhetoric nearly as much now that the Internet has exposed the limitations of the ‘American Dream’ compared to other nations. Will Singapore become the next model to emulate? Unfortunately that would assume a logic that’s rarely in evidence in hegemonies.
As our great host says from time to time. You won the lottery the day you born in Canada !!!
That’s a novel way to describe the Canadian Prime Minister.
I don’t particularly follow Joe Rogan, so no.
My wife and I live in Glendale, AZ. Can we come live with you ? We have three cats 🙂
I agree. I worry that when America falls, the first thing they’re going to grab is our ankle.
I believe the American empire has been falling for some time now. Perhaps it was when they undermined the UN to illegally invade Iraq for Halliburton’s bottom line? Perhaps it was when they propped up the last economic bubble collapse with a brand new shiny bubble to build atop? Or perhaps it was when they hired a reality tv star to run their country..?
Boy was Tony Blair ever America’s mercenary. I wouldn’t trust that guy for the time of day if he was given a Big Ben suppository.
He revealed that Israel was the main topic of his meeting with Bush prior to the invasion.
Take it or leave it, but I see no reason to doubt his words, especially considering that anecdote didn’t fit the “official narrative.”
Now you can have a religious belief about events… or instead gather knowledge that is subject to change based on new data or evidence. That’s your call.
I personally can’t stand any politician, but again see no reason to doubt his words.
You have every reason to doubt every politicians words.
Haha Actually I agree with you and Munny 2.0. Sometimes multiple things are true at the same time.
Maybe when they shipped off their industry to China. “Made in the USA” used to mean more than a Bruce Springsteen slogan.
American foreign policy has always been a fascination of mine. I’ve probably read too many books on this particular subject. My wife would certainly echo that sentiment. That said, if an inquisitive mind leads you in a similar direction, the best of them all imo is House of War by James Carroll. Written by a legit Pentagon insider, it’s nothing short of truth to power on how the global agenda is shaped and American imperialism has influenced the world we live in today and possibly forevermore.
I also want to emphasize that I’m not US bashing here. If they didn’t grab the reins after WWII someone else would have. The world has alway worked this way. The key is avoiding the perception that those driving global policy are benevolent actors. Seizing and maintaining power inherently means overriding the moral checks and balances that lead to utopia. That is its fatal flaw,
My favourite Osteen story is how the national media had to shame him into housing the homeless in his massive tax free church/estate during the flood in Houston.
I’ll sometimes flip to him during breaks in the NFL game just to tweak my better half. Televangelism drives her up the wall and I’m a sick puppy.
What can the flames steal from Vegas? Or could a multi-player trade help both teams?
Jack Eichel ….won’t happen but I’d like to see it….
Eichel would whine for a year before refusing to play for them until he was traded.
Just a reminder that building a team through free agency is a losing strategy. You have to build through the draft and trades.
I think most Canadian teams don’t have an issue resigning their homegrown drafted stars. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are mostly outliers IMO.
There will always be a handful of players who want to return home, like PLD in Winnipeg, Tavares with the NYI, or an American wanting to return to the States.
The only reason free agents want to come here, sometimes at a discount, is CMD, Drai and the prospect of contending for a cup.
I feel bad for Calgary, but I don’t think it’s a trend. They just got unlucky with two homegrown talents who want to move.
Exactly – same thing happened to us after the 2006 Cup run … Pronger’s wife hated living in Edmonton, and off they went back to the US. The Flames will survive … they will suck for a long time … but they will survive.
They could have been set up to be a powerhouse for a long time. But a walk and a forced trade hooped them big time, no return and a lessened return
If they had somehow noticed over the last couple of years that their two best players didn’t want to play there. Or maybe their illustrious amazing former captain picked it up when not kneeing people
Johnny wanted out long ago. He just felt guilty and was trying to talk himself into staying is my take
But he still wanted out. And Tkachuk for sure. His ego demands a bigger audience and more hotshots to hobknob with
Keith loves the power of torturing Pizza Boy. He also loves the thrill of winning.
When Matt’s Father didn’t chuck his favorite hat on the ice, the Flames did relocate. From the top of the division to the basement.
Hiyoooooo!
Haha it is still mind-boggling to me that a former NHLer, who wore a hat to the game, didn’t toss his hat on the ice when his son scored a hat trick in the playoffs. Geez, tell a neighbour you’ll give them ten grand for their hat and toss it if your lucky hat means so much to you. Fifteen distinct flavours of incomprehensible.
Keith’s reason actually rings true to me – he professed that it was lucky hat for the flames and he didn’t want to lose it.
Right, but he’s rich. Watch this:
*ahem*: I GOT TEN GRAND FOR THE FIRST PERSON WHO GIVES ME A HAT TO THROW!
*is showered with hats*
Or think ahead. Does he not think his son could get a hatty? What if he does, then what? Bring a tosser just in case
What’s with the pity party for the Flames today. Burke,Hrudey, Cassie and Button to name a few mocked the Oilers for years on end and they thoroughly enjoyed it. For some that don’t know Edmonton Oilers were originally the Alberta Oilers. Never feel sorry for your enemies it’s a sign of weakness. Who trades Willi Plett in his prime?
I might feel sorry for the Flames fans, but I’m very much looking forward to Hrudey and Campbell-Pascall trying to put a positive spin on Calgary’s offseason and that any drop in the standings really isn’t such a big deal.
Hrudey’s Insight Next Year: “I mean really, if the Oilers would just stop scoring more goals than Canada’s beloved Flames these games would be so much closer…”
Remember when Oilers played the flames, chase Rittich out of the net, Talbot came in to get his ass kicked by Smith (sorry Talbot still love ya), then Cassie started saying this was a good thing for the Flames because Rittich was going back in and was rested?
I was flabbergasted by the mental gymnastics to kiss the flames ass by someone whos supposed to be unbiased.
Her Hubby works for the Flames Button is the ex G.M and his brother works for them. Hrudey works for the Flames and will say anything to prop them up. I remember after hours one time where they had Peplinski and Gelinas reflecting on the battle of Alberta. Gelinas was suppose to be the voice of the Oilers and big mouth Peplinski for the Flames. They couldn’t even get a real Oiler as Gelinas has the Flames tattoo on his ass. It was a total farce where Peplinski had free reign to shit on McClelland,Jackson, Semenko and McSorley and prop up Baxter, Sheehy and Macoun. Beiska is the only one that calls out Hrudey when he’s blabbing his Flames propaganda.
I know their connections but they dont even try to hide it. The crazy extent they go to be homers is embarrassing. Its one thing to be a bit biased say 60-40 but id say theyre 95-5. Its always a great flames save but never a great oilers chance etc.
I feel like Cassie/Hrudey would be the people to be down 2-0 and un-ironically say “this is just where the Flames want them, the most dangerous lead in hockey”.
To be fair, I don’t think colour commentators are supposed to be unbiased anymore. I might be wrong, but I don’t remember the last time I watched a game on any broadcast where the announcers weren’t obviously rooting for “their” team.
Are you only talking about the NHL? Because my favorite color guy is Tony Romo in the NFL and he is definitely unbiased. He is also the best there is.
Yeah, the only sports I watch nowadays are NHL and NBA. I’m actually moving away from hockey and towards basketball, only reason I follow the NHL at all anymore is cause I really like the Oilers.
Tony is so knowledgeable and modest in todays narcissistic world we live in. It’s a treat to listen to him.
You got that. I love listening to him tell us what the play is going to be then watch it happen!
I know. Romo rocks.
You haven’t heard him do a Cowboy game then.
She might believe it. Lansky thinks she’s good, I always get the impression she doesn’t really get the game at a deep level even if formerly a good player
A lot of the league wide ridicule came about our way due to the inability to win anything with the plethora of high draft picks and number ones overall. Calgary will garner more sympathy than we ever will.
A lot of old school types hate us because we won five cups in seven years and were allowed to keep Gretzky when we joined the league.
Also because that 80s Oilers team was pretty cocky. With some justification.
Unless, of course, they do the same thing
But we won McDavid with all those high draft picks and 1st overalls!
Tough spot for the Flames. With a strong draft in ‘23 they should be looking to re-tool with several picks from next June.
I thought up a few trade targets for them. However these may be overly optimistic results for Calgary but:
1) Jordan Kyrou – Stl
2) Alex Holtz or Dawson Mercer + a 1st – NJ
3) James Van Riemsdyk, Travis Samhein, and a 1st (Philly)
Spitballing, but I don’t see a lot of opportunity for them to get near equal value unless they’re taking back a bad contract and futures.
They May have no choice but to go deep re-build.
They won’t go full rebuild unless they replace Sutter and Pizza Boy. They’ll try putting a few band-aids on and find players that are good at playing the trap.
The only way for the flames to get full value for Tkachuk is to allow teams to speak to Tkachuk re: a new contract so that they know they will have Matthew for longer than just the one-year at $9MM.
Any team trading for Tkachuk without knowledge cannot pay full value, I wouldn’t think.
As Jethro states “There is a lot of road to travel between Tkachuk – a good, but not elite player – leaving and the league moving the team.” and I agree.
Bettman works hard to ensure teams do not move, and keeps teams in cities where they, on the surface at least, appear to be unprofitable. Our team is an example.
That said, Canada will never again see Triple ‘A’ baseball. If Calgary and Vancouver had built new stadiums Triple A would have stayed for a least a few more years, maybe even to today. So facilities in multiple western cities is important.
The same is true for festivals, multiple appearances in short time span, also supports bringing better talent to all events in Western cities.
Canadian’s and Canadian sports teams face many disadvantages when compared to any US destination. What bothers me is – if Stauffer is right – that the Oiler’s contribute financially to maintaining southern teams, while Oil fans pay high prices for tickets and a libation, and must work overtime to get and keep good players.
Quick poll – if you have ever wished you could pay money to watch Triple ‘A’ baseball in Canada, upvote this. If not, downvote it.
For me, buying arenas for for-profit sports teams is just another way to give handouts to billionaires. JMO
Lesson for all NHL General Managers….if a player doesn’t explicitly tell you he wants to stay, assume he wants to leave.
#OhGiveMeAHomeWhereTheBuffaloRoam
#TheKingHasLeftTheBuilding
I’m pretty sure Matt Tkachuk made it clear to the Flames mgt before the beginning of last season that he was not going to be a Flame at the end of this contract.
#That’sLife
#Don’tLetTheDoorHitYouInTheAssOnYourWayOut
Johnny Gaudreau did nothing wrong imo…… well except Columbus 😉
Crude opening Alert!
Randle doing Randle (it happens)
With Darryl Sutter and Cap Space, the flames will be no-where near the bottom six of the NHL..imo. Calgary is going to have to take the balanced (not top heavy) approach to team building, In the age of parity, they will never be too far behind us.
With hyper-inflation here an entrenched for at least a few years , the Flames are in a spot of bother around a new arena But the City of Calgary will find a way to get it done…they always do.
Clearly, Edmonton is THE “destination city” in the province of Alberta for NHL players. New state of the art barn (Thank You Mr Katz…sincerely): Two best players in the world; Weather.(haha)
Calgary on the other hand…you can’t even get a drink in that City…What’s up with that? ( because all those people and just one cup 🙂 )
I sincerely hope the Flames rebuild “Calgary Strong”, while we make room in that locker room trophy case for 3 more cups. Let’s keep the ratio at 5:1 please.
Randle’s world is better with Mathew Tkachuk outside of our division.
I am not so sure about that.
Can we address the elephant in the room?
Is Tkachuk a poison in the dressing room?
Giordano was gone after being exposed to the expansion draft just a year removed from his Norris. What team does that unless the player is okay with leaving?
Bennett leaving Calgary seemed to benefit Bennett and not the Flames, so he doesn’t appear to have been the problem.
Gaudreau took less to leave Calgary. Was he actually running AWAY from something and not TO something? It is a question Flames fans don’t really ask, because the first instinct is that he is running from them and their city (which is a painful thought), but what if he just didn’t like some of his teammates? Still, we’ll never know, but if that dressing room was really tight I can’t see him leaving without the teammates being told in advance. He may have decided to keep his mouth shut for one more year and just GTFO, just like someone who can’t stand that one guy in the office will put up with it for one more year.
Once Tkachuk is gone I guess we will start to find out what his teammates really thought of him, but if he is a cancer in that room, I would rather he remain in our division.
Flames should want to be near the bottom of the NHL. Trying a rebuild through UFA when you have no bus driver up front and frankly an overrated defense will have them in the Minnesota Mediocrity Middle of the NHL. If they want to maybe make the playoffs and get stomped if they do sure sign who you can (aging Kadri or B-List wingers) otherwise tear it down for assets.
With Darryl Sutter and Cap Space, the Flames will do just fine,
Signed,
Ricki the Bear
Where is Ricki?
Ricki, you out there?
He was posting during the playoffs so I hope he is still with us
If you are out there Ricki, I hope you are doing well. All the best.
Flames fans have been bragging that they traded a 4th line player Neal for a top 6 forward Lucic.
Heard Tkachuk to Columbus for Gaudreau.
Bring back an elite winger who is signed long term on a value deal.
Congratulations on coming 1st in both the 2021-22 Regular Season and Playoff Deathmarches.
thanks 🙏🏼 Hunter for putting it on. Nailed the 104 points for the regular season and the 8 wins for the playoffs.
Would have wished for 16 wins, but 8 is 8 more than the last decade 🤣 COL was always going to be a tough out.
Well done sir!
Nothing to add that hasn’t been said. imho, Phlegms relocation pretty unthinkable at this juncture. Guess I just thought about it.
Ranking the things that most interest and excite me for the coming season:
1) Kane McDavid
2) Draisaitl Campbell
3) Bouchard, McLeod, Skinner (Class of 2017-2018)
4) Holloway, Broberg
5) Jay Woodcroft first full season
Woodcroft at 5? Rude!
#2 is really just Campbell, isn’t it?
😉
And is it an Eastern US thing (where most US players are from). Just thinking about Yamo. NW USA. Not many options for him to play ‘close to home’ in USA.
“If you read about the history of Edmonton sports, success is tied to other strong teams in the Canadian west.”
COMON Winnipeg!!
Here we go Kraken; Here we go!
Godless Flames and Motherless Canucks….spits…
Motherless Canucks, as in cloning?
I thought about getting a clone, but I don’t think I could live with myself afterward.
I keed… I keed…
Kanuck fans booed team Canada off the ice against the Commies in 72 they’re cursed for eternity.
I totally remember WIN, VAN and CGY all cratering during our decade of darkness. How did any of them ever survive that? Or the selling of Paul and Wayne and Mark?
In my youth I would have taken great joy in what has befallen the Flames. Now that I’m older, grayer, and with a receding hairline, that joy has been tempered by my years of life experience.
The issue for me isn’t Tkachuk leaving. He’s earned that right and Calgary served it up to him on a silver platter. That’s the system. He should take the high road and let the Flames know what his intentions are. He’s got this summer and the rest of the year to tell them.
Goudreau strung the Flames along. And that’s bullshit in my books. We can blather all day long about the BOA and such, but the Flames were respectful of the player and his wishes and treated him and his family well. They showed him they wanted him. They publicly stated to the world they wanted him. And he returned the favour by pulling pin at the last second and popped smoke to leave like a midnight mover over unpaid rent debts.
As some articles online have pointed out, he did the same with NJ as well. He strung them along too.
I get that this is a business and that players are often treated like cattle. When they get their chance to bounce, they want to take it. Just have more class about it.
My biggest fear in all of this is that the league will morph into an NBA type situation where players will be able to dictate to their teams where they want to be traded to. And that’s essentially what it is. Everyone who is a star player is a mercenary. Everyone else gets the scraps and the finals are often a forgone conclusion.
I’m hoping it doesn’t come to that. I really am. And if Tkachuk decides he wants out, let the Flames know ASAP and let them try and work out what’s best for them because nothing feels better than crushing
curb stompinga credible Flames team like the oil did this past spring in the playoffs.With the NBA there are 5 starters and if you get 2 or 3 stars you usually have a good team.
Tougher in hockey. Player movement isn’t as fluid.
Johnny was surprised that only 2 or 4 teams actually contacted him. (As per his Spittin chiclets interview)
I think Kadri is experiencing a similar shock now.
Its tougher in hockey to have the foregone conclusion scenario, imo.
Look at Tampa Bay. Wouldn’t everyone want to play there? They got all you’d maybe want. But they had to shed players.
But for the weaker teams, yes, I would agree, it’s tough for them to get the good free agents unless they overpay.
Maybe lots of players just think, “____ makes X, I’m better than ____, therefore I’ll get X+.” Maybe they don’t look around the League and examine different teams’ cap situations before testing free agency.
LT has served up a tasty reminder of the importance of the big picture, and historical context.
Could the Flames leave Cowtown? Why not? Jets and Nordiques packed up, Oilers almost did. History rhymes sometimes.
Would that hurt the Oilers? And Oiler fans? Absolutely. The fuel of rivalry is stronger when it’s personal and nearby.
I am proud of Canada’s hydrocarbons industry but I am not optimistic about its political future these days. Where will the $ come from to replace the ‘Dome?
Bye bye Flames?
The NHL would be far poorer for it if that happens. As would we as fans.
Flames leaving because the Feds at some point completely shaft the O&G industry is a completely different issue than the Flames leaving because Johnny and Turtle did.
The ESG boondoggle and the well-intended but completely ill-planned energy transition are in the process of being exposed as frauds.
Energy transition is not possible without nuclear, nor without affordable fossil fuels. One needs sufficient nuclear so that the energy density of nuclear+wind+solar is significantly greater than that of fossil fuels for a successful energy transition.
Sri Lanka was the poster child for the “global reset” and energy transition in the Global south. And the EU was the poster child for it in the West. Things are going swimmingly well in both place! -). Coal is making a big comeback in the EU.
Many, many people pointed out ESG as a fraud right from the beginning…
Only now, are most people having their eyes opened up to reality.
ESG is not a fraud – just the typical stupid people believing you get something great for free.
The transition to an “Electrical” future needs balance and infrastructure – both of which are missing.
Sun covered by clouds on a no wind day = need an alternative to deliver energy = oil and gas today perhaps nuclear in the future. (Please note; no country has the electrical infrastructure in place to support a mass transition from oil and gas – for context just take a boo at Germany (Russian turbines anyone?))
Excellent article on Bouch LT! Perhaps the most undersold 50 year old defenseman in the league. He has a habit of tightening up defensively year over year as well. I expect him to be a bit quicker overall and meaner. Excited to see what he can do this year.
>50 points gets you in Souray, Pronger, Smith territory. >60 points hasn’t happened since 86/87.
Dare to dream dare to dream.
Very happy to have picked Bouchard in 2018, and looking forward to him putting up gaudy point totals for the next decade.
And not to steal the old man’s thunder, but Barrie’s Covid shortened season was a significant one on that list as well. Pro-rates to 70 points. It was only 48 in 56 games, but through no fault of his own.
By points/game that actually was the most points by an Oiler D since Coffey was traded (# 8 in all time Oilers points/game behind 6 x Coffey, and plus Siltanen in 81-82). Hopefully Bouch can do even better at some point 🙂
I’m wondering how Calgary recovers from this.
1: They lose an elite, play driving winger as a UFA.
2: They lose an excellent winger in a forced trade they cannot win
That’s two thirds of the “best line in hockey” in a single off season with minimal return. Yes, they are a well run organization that drafts very well. Yes, they now have extensive cap space. And yes, they still have a solid team that should still hold its head above water in a weak-ish Pacific Division.
However, elite top-line forwards are extremely hard to come by. They rarely become available in the free agent market and cost a metric tonne in trade.
They have an organization that can identify talent and money to spend — but the kind of player that they need simply isn’t available to acquire.
What can they do to build a successful team with their current core of players? How does an NHL team acquire two elite forwards in a limited amount of time, only having becoming aware that this was a problem to solve over the past few week?
Or do you tear things down to stud?
Brutal. I honestly feel for Flames fans. Not Canuck fans. I’ll be quite happy watching them suffer for a generation. (Live in BC as an Oiler fan and you’ll understand)
Winnipeg had their treasure trove of defensemen blow up in a similar fashion a few years ago. Gutted a team that should have been in a Stanley window. Ouch.
I wonder if there is any smoke to the Tkachuk/DeBrincat idea. Seems to me that Ottawa would be better served by going after both, and not doing Treliving a solid, while having Brady T under contract. Quite the turnaround happening in Ottawa. There will be goals, everyone will score goals, Sens and entertaining haven’t been a thing lately. Should be a fun year.
I do and feel the same!
But don’t you know that cap space will be weaponized. Every pacific team weaponizes their capspace and becomes elite in < any Oiler timeline.
Saw a headline about the “best line in hockey being traded” and damn near shat my pants, because the “best line in hockey” is Leon, Connor and Third Player.
Leon/Connor weren’t really a line for most of the regular season – not until the later in the 1st round of the playoffs.
I can’t argue that Tkachuk/Lindholm/Gaudrea wasn’t the best 5 on 5 line during this past regular season….
I haven’t done the research, but I got twenty internet bucks that says my line of Connor, Leon and Other Guy outproduced Tkachuk/Lindholm/Gaudrea prorated to TOI.
*slaps twenty internet bucks on the table, steeples fingers*
You’d actually be worng, and by a long shot:
McDavid/Drai together: GF/60 3.49
Gaudreau/Lindhold/Tkachuk: GF/60 4.55
Also, the flames trio had a GF% of over 70%……. McDavid/Drai was 54.85%
The flames line was by far the best 5 on 5 line in hockey.
*sadly gives up his twenty internet bucks*
Best line in hockey traded? Brogdan Rafferty’s been traded???
I know it behooves us to not take joy in the Flames implosion (I will say that Tkachuk hasn’t been traded yet – believe it when you see it), I can’t help thinking of the apparent glee most of them had during the DoD.
We had a wings night for my Boss’ leaving function on the night of this years first playoff game vs. the Flames. There were 4 Flames fans in our party and a few more in the bar. This bar is solidly in Oil Country, but these fans didn’t care – they were brutal, not gracious, rude, not magnanimous.
They have so much ammo on us, maybe a bit of cosmic balance is due, if only for a year.
Be interesting to see how King Darryl responds. More bag skates?
I agree with this. Karma is a bitch.
I went to the Saddledome to watch the first game. Flames fans were AWESOME!! Even after we tied the game. This brings up another issue indirectly. It was almost a third of the cost to watch my team in Calgary, compared to Edmonton.
Dome foams that can get up to 15% alone make it worth it. Happy hour too. Not a single rink in Canada will serve a beer for $10 let alone $5.
Just like the Oilers with the Oil dicky, any new arena in Calgary will not be able to have the flamethrowers they have now. Insurance not worth it.
Keep the dome, an eyesore in Calgary with alot of….personality. I only got my life threatened once in game 2, great folk.
I agree that having a good western Canada rivalry is a good thing that benefits teams and fans alike. Competition is a known recipe for breeding success. I was just put more blame on poor management in the decade of darkness that any BOA rivalry. Canadian teams have been enduring difficult times for awhile now for numerous reasons. From a reverse perspective, it seems Calgary has not needed quality Edmonton teams to continue thriving
To be honest, if Tkachuk leaves and the Flames sink to the bottom of the standings, I will enjoy it for a few years. The Stamps and Flames have been dominating us for awhile and we’ve been patiently enduring it. I just can’t see Calgary without an NHL team for too long, should things get that bad. But yeah – I would not wish that on them and would miss the rivalry. Oiler ticket sales and merchandise would also drop if this were to happen. But our goal is to win Stanley, not just gain Alberta bragging rights.
I made a joke that the Flames are letting their stars walk to try and sign McDavid to a league max contract as revenge for this springs playoff loss. I am sure that possibility is close to 0 percent but I would still feel more comfortable if the Flames were up against the cap due to overpaying JG and MT.
There is a lot of road to travel between Tkachuk – a good, but not elite player – leaving and the league moving the team.
We had a whole DoD and survived. They should take heart from that.
Something, something, Feaster, something, “Wandering the desert”.
I’m surprised at how little scrutiny this theory is facing.
I’m surprised how little scrutiny, so far, Treliving is facing. He allowed Johnny Gaudreau to walk for free – that was poor business. Trust no one in a cutthroat business, otherwise you get what you get. For Western Canadian teams, it is a poor decision to build around American players. They can say all day long how much they love a city – it is all propaganda. Stop investing high draft picks on players born in the USA (Calgary, are you listening?)! Treliving should have anticipated and been prepared for Gaudreau and Tkachuk departing.
Treliving could have signed him to a long term contract last summer (for a lot less $).
I’m not sure Treliving was completely ‘sold’ on Gaudreau until after this season as they couldn’t come to an agreement then and there were reports that he was being shopped.
then Johnny has an all world season
Starting a family
then Treliving was almost crying as he announced Gadreau was leaving.
i guess the problem was Treliving not identifying a good player and locking him up accordingly?
I don’t disagree with the “don’t let them walk for free” sentiment in general, however, teams do acquire the cap space afterward which is an asset. Carolina did that intentionally with Dougie Hamilton and many GMs did it this year with RFAs. Obviously it’s a very different scenario when it’s planned, or should be seen ahead of time. Calgary could have had a much different offseason if they went in thinking they had $10.5M to spend on a UFA or trade for a player other than Johnny Columbus (and maybe Chucky).
It would be fascinating to have seen the saga from a fly on the wall perspective and see when the Flames should have picked up on the reality of Johnny not coming back. Point being since he hadn’t signed say 48 (or 24) hours before free agency opening, why didn’t the Flames think to protect the risk and go after a replacement via trade or different UFA target. Same with Chucky – is it really surprising he wants to go back home? He’s a twerp by nature and you know this.
Tkachuk as a high draft pick you take every time. There’s a stretch between ‘don’t draft them at all’ and ‘you get control of the player and their movement for up to ~10 years with slide rules’. They lost Johnny for the end of his prime, not the start. And Johnny was a 4th rounder.
If you want examples of high draft picks creating a problem that actually causes a legitimate distraction to an organization, look at Dubois right now, good Canadian boy.
Further back, Evander Kane, Canadian boy. Winnipeg has it toughest in the league by far imo.
I take your point, but neither Dubois or E. Kane were drafted by the Wpg Jets.
In 2021 the Flames used their 1st round pick on an American, Matt Coronato (https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=227921). It just doesn’t seem wise, if you’re not going to trade them for value when their RFA contracts are expiring.
To be fair, if they had dealt JG instead of losing him for nothing, the draft pick would have been justified. I think the lesson is not “don’t draft Americans,” but “if your American player hasn’t resigned by the last year of their contract, assume they won’t.”