One Little Victory

by Lowetide
Stuart Skinner photo by Mark Williams

Stuart Skinner had a great game, but that isn’t news because all of the Oilers played well. What is news is Skinner’s recovery over recent weeks. I have been posting all year that Skinner is a fine goaltender, and for the most part posters have disagreed. Skinner has enough games in the NHL now for us to get a feel for him. In 2021-22, he played in 13 games with a .913 save percentage. Last year, he played in 50 games with a .914 save percentage. This year, he started poorly and is now recovering. It’s going to take some time. In his last five games, at five-on-five, his save percentage is .936 for the Oilers.

Is it possible you could be wrong about Stuart Skinner? Or are you always right and never ever make a call that is incorrect? This is an honesty test, but also a test of character. Are you strong enough to admit being wrong? For the sake of the people around you, I hope the answer is yes.

THE ATHLETIC!

WHAT TO EXPECT IN DECEMBER

  • At home to: CAR, MIN, NJD, CHI, TBAY, FLA (Expected 3-3-0) (Actual 1-0-0)
  • On the road to: NYI, NJD, NYR, SJS, LAK, ANA (Expected 3-3-0) (Actual 0-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 6-6-0, 12 points in 12 games
  • Actual December results: 1-0-0, 2 points in 1 games
  • Oilers in 2023-24: 10-12-1, 21 points in 23 games

This is a strange month for Edmonton, one long home stand and a couple of road trips around Christmas. I have them going 6-6-0, but if this team can get 16 points from the month my “Standing on the Shoreline” January 1 article here will be about the historic turnaround by this team. Wow what a game last night.

THE NUMBERS

I remember when the writers at The Hockey News and the television conversation would surround Phil Esposito’s scoring feats, and partially downplay the real force of nature on my childhood Boston Bruins (Bobby Orr). I never want to be the person who buries the real truth, so Connor McDavid is 4-15-19 over the last seven games. That’s the tip of the spear surrounding the current run. We need to acknowledge that a giant walks among us, even if mere mortals (as we are) tend to turn away from the sun because it hurts our eyes. Don’t downplay McDavid. He is a majestic hockey player.

That said, holy hell Zach Hyman! You incredible hockey player, you! He’s on pace for a 50-goal season, each of them likely to involve a defenceman attempting to dismember him, at least one stick finding its way between his legs and a pile of humanity after the goal that involves a punch or elbow on Hyman. He frustrates the hell out of opponents because he won’t give up! My God I love this player.

I’m writing about Evan Bouchard today for The Athletic, it’ll be out tomorrow. The article began as a “look out, mama there’s a point total that’ll blow your mind coming up the river” but now has a coda with the beauty of the piano ending of “Layla” about how much he gets done across 200 feet. We saw an example last night on a goal in which he did not receive an assist while also authoring a key and outstanding play.

Folks, at some point we’re going to have to talk about Paul Coffey. One of my favourite things is to hammer the old 80’s Oilers for coming back to the organization time and again without coaching or management training. I hammer in the morning, hammer in the evening, hammer all over this land about it. I get in that batter’s box and wait for my pitch and hammer it to the moon. One of my favourite things to do.

Paul Coffey appears to be making a difference. Jesus, Mary and Joseph look at these defensemen!! Holy crap! Bouchard is emerging as a complete talent, Vincent Desharnais has learned to reset in front of our eyes and Darnell Nurse has calmed his feet and the waters around him. Paul Coffey. Who knew?

Mattias Janmark. Every great Oilers team has a European with a funny helmet who the fans want to throw into the North Saskatchewan. Janmark is such a smart player, he carries that bucket around the ice doing things that are rarely noticed but have great impact. He’s like Brian Eno on a Roxy Music or David Bowie album. You don’t notice him really but the excitement builds as the song progresses and here’s Janmark today with a 2.31 pts-60 at five-on-five and a 59 percent expected goal share. Respect him, ladies and men. He’s bleeding for you.

At noon we hit the airwaves and talk Oilers with Bagged Milk from Oilers Nation on the Lowdown (Sports 1440). We’ll also talk about the big trade between the Yankees and Padres yesterday. You can reach me in the comments section, @Lowetide on twitter, or text us 1.833.401.1440 directly.

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Munny 2.0

I see the Wild had to travel Calgary, Vancover and then back to Edmonton on a B2B. The schedule makers really did them some favours there.

Awwww.

OriginalPouzar

Its the wild 3rd in 4 nights, second of back to backs and they lose an hour time zone wise.

The Oilers need to take advantage.

Boil-in-the-Oil

So if Skinner had won the Calder last season, would his poor start have been written off as the Calder-curse? Hard to ignore the team’s defensive woes that lead to his difficult start, but… just curious.

Foege Foegele Torpe

Hoo boy
Rod the Bod will not be happy

dangilitis

Question. I’m a first year season ticket holder and taking my son to the game. A) does that allow us to get any closer access to the players at any time? And B) if not, any tips for getting him a good view during warm ups?

meanashell11

Years ago I brought my oldest to a game and reached out to the Oilers marketing people. Asked to get into the dressing room. It took a lot but eventually was told if they won I could go to the Oilers Room doors and ask for I think it was Pat Laforge, my name would be on a list. We got in and spent an hour after the game with the players.

Jaxon

Take a look at the top goalies this year and you’ll see that the W is represented very well.

In the last month Connor Ingram has been the top goalie in the NHL. Tristan Jarry has returned to form. Skinner is back to last year’s level when he was an All-Star and Calder candidate (hope it sticks). Adin Hill was great in their Cup run and up until his injury, but fellow W alumni, Logan Thompson has picked up where he left off (a reversal of last year’s scenario). Carter Hart is having a decent season as well. All 6 goalies were in the WHL in 2014-2015. Jarry is the oldest at 28 (his last season in the W was 2014-15). Skinner is the youngest at 25 and 2014-15 was his 2nd season in the W. Hart, also 25, is just 2.5 months older than Skinner. Ingram and Thomspon are both 26, and Hill is 27. Laurent Broissoit (30) is also a W alum and he is having a decent season backing up Hellebuyck, but didn’t cross paths with the others as he is older. Jarry was his backup in his last 2 seasons with the Oil Kings.

Was there something in the water when these kids were coming through the system? Was there a goalie training program in the WHL that they all attended?

Jarry and Broissoit had Dustin Schwartz as their goalie coach. He won the Memorial Cup with Jarry in 2014. He became the WHL’s Goaltending consultant in 2017, but most of these goalies were gone by then. Skinner and Thompson still had one more season when he was the WHL’s consultant. He was also on the advisory group that sent goalies to Hockey Canada development camp. Jarry, Skinner, Hart, and Hill all attended at some point and Schwartz was one of the coaches at the camp. I’m not saying he is responsible for the success of these goalies but he has been a goalie coach in some capacity in Alberta since 2005.

I just find it interesting and I’d love to know what programs were running at the time for young goalies in the Western provinces and if these goalies crossed paths through their minor hockey days. Does anyone have any inside info?

Maybe the next team Canada will be all Western Canadian kids.

Harpers Hair

LAK over MTL 4-0 to win their 11th straight road game to start the season…a new NHL record.

Cam Talbot wins his 10th straight on the road.

Quinton Byfield 2G 1A….bust😉

Elgin R

Great. Oilers 5 cups / LA 2 cups. Please go away you pos.

Stephen

Hi, Art!

maudite

The best part of this is you mocking whomever the idiot is that came up with the most nonsensical pseudo logic loops to rush label younger players as bust or not.

Last edited 9 months ago by maudite
Harpers Hair

There was way more than one.

leadfarmer

You know he’s talking about you

Side

It’s true. You did do this on more than one occasion.

danny

Didn’t you label Borgeault a bust recently? Their post-draft progress was nearly identical, and Xavier was drafted 20 spots later than Byfield. High-quality stuff there Mr Smith.

Side

He labelled Bouchard a bust and not an NHL player only just a year ago.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

To be fair, most folks that were calling Byfield a bust (e.g. me) were satirizing your inane rules about prospects that you apply to Oilers players and then dismiss when applied to other teams.

SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo!

Strength of schedule. The regression will be messy.

Elgin R

Great non-game night. Bruins losing by 2 and the POS Marchand takes a really bad penalty with less than 7 minutes left. Love listening to the Boston announcers trying to justify the play by the rat. Great to see Boston get beat by the Sabres.

Dee Dee

Show us on the doll where the Bruins touched you.

Harpers Hair

Awesome.

meanashell11

Show us on the doll where the Oilers touched you.

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

Have to admit … that was really funny.

OriginalPouzar

Ben Gleason actually making less money than he was in the minors.

His AHL salary this year equals his NHL salary but now he has to pay in to escrow….

OriginalPouzar

Holland on Oilers Now:

“Yes, at some point in the next little bit. I spent an hour on the phone with Jack and his Agent on Monday. He’ll play 2 of the next three games. We’ll see how we are going here but certainly I want to get Jack back up here an give him an opportunity to get back in the net”.

“No, and Darrin and I have talked multiple time over the last three weeks. Obviously, Darrin as agent for Phil, is frustrated. I spent an hour with Philip yesterday. Certainly he’s frustrated and when I made the deal for Ekholm last year, obviously Ek and Nurse are the top and Kulak got pushed to the 3 hole and Broberg to the 4 hole. I think there has only been one or two games max since the trade where Broberg has played with the 6D dressed. So his minutes…. back to the confidence thing. We’ve had multiple conversations. I DID NOT GIVE PERMISSION TO DARRIN FERRIS TO START CALLING AROUND. I’ve had many unhappy players, I’ve been around a long time. Patience, patience, patience, things will work out. I did not give permission. If there was an issue it may have been a misunderstanding. I spent an hour with Philip yesterday, I expect him to be unhappy. I expect the athlete to be frustrated. If they aren’t frustrated not playing I think we have the wrong athlete. I still believe he’s a very good prospect. We have Darnell, Ek, Kulak. We have Deharnais that gives us a dimension and he shoots right. Bouchard. Ceci is solid, etc. Sometimes as a young player you have to wait for injury.

“Yes, at some point in the next little bit. I spent an hour on the phone with Jack and his Agent on Monday. He’ll play 2 of the next three games. We’ll see how we are going here but certainly I want to get Jack back up here an give him an opportunity to get back in the net”.

OriginalPouzar

Bob talked about “it turning” and Holland agreed, they are looking better but there are 55 games to go – gotta keep going.

Bob spent 2 minutes listing off expected goal and PDO stats and Holland said, he thought they were playing terrible early and they were making too many mistakes. New coaches have made some tweaks.

“Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong and we were digging a hole for ourselves”.

Individually we’ve started to play better and collectively. PP has been better. PK has been better. Goaltending has been better. Depth has been better.

Still 6 points out and lots of work to do. Lots of roadway left but we need to go 6-4 or 7-4 in every 10 game segment, or better.

New Coach: Really knows that game. Great with Xs and Ox. Very calm, doesn’t get too high or too low. Big in to having players in his office having meetings. Gathering lots of info from Gully and existing staff.

Defence under Paul – appear to be moving the puck better. Woody and Manson made the defence better – created the foundation. New coaches are maybe taking that a bit further with transition, etc.

Confidence is a huge part. It was low. Now its higher.

SKOilerFan

There’s no depth to this verbal – nothing innovative. Sounds like this is a conversation in the future at Palm Springs with Charelli at the shuffleboard table – reminiscing over a cigar.
Is this what the discussions are like at the executive level of most NHL teams? It’s not 1998 anymore

Elgin R

Blah blah blah.Kenny should be fired asap.

Harpers Hair
Decidedly Skeptical Fan

If they are hell bent on getting rid of Broberg, I’d be OK with the Podkolzin deal.

Dee Dee

Jeopardy Answer:
12.

The number of points McDavid needs to tie the scoring lead.

Kert

In case anyone was wondering, none of the top 12 scoring leaders have been in my kitchen.

Kurri17

Also of note, Oilers have played less games than most teams as well. Only 23 games played so far.

jtblack

late to the party today. Great write up LT !!!

Elgin R

There are 10 games left in December and I have the Oilers winning 6 of them at least. Team will be in the playoff picture by early January. Book it Danno!

wheatnoil

The Ekholm goal was interesting because that looked like a set play to me. As soon as the draw was one clearly, Ekholm passed it over to Bouchard and he immediately started moving in from the blueline. I swear he was going there before Bouchard fed it to McDavid. Now McDavid just has to make one move and he can pass it to Hyman (I think) in front or a pinching Ekholm who comes all the way down to the top of the crease.

My first thought was “that’s something I’d expect Paul Coffey would do”.

But Bruce Curlock made a comment on Twitter on how weakside D activation (among other things) are features of Knoblauch’s AHL teams.

Hard to know how much to assign to Coffey and how much to assign to the new head coach. The Oilers definitely have some new positive tweaks to their breakouts. Is that Coffey? Is that Knoblauch? I don’t really know.

This seemed less relevant with Woodcroft – Manson, who came as more of a package. They clearly worked well together and had similar philosophies. Not so of Coffey and Knoblauch.

I don’t have an answer here. Just curious.

Munny 2.0

Brind’Amour raved in disbelief about that set play post-game. Said they had reviewed that face-off 15 times before the game and still played it wrong, less than a minute in.

northerndancer

Good point. When they showed it later from the overhead view it looked like a planned play but also a planned play that included a more complete rotation than just Ekholm coming down. If I remember correctly Nuge swung through the middle and over to Bouchard’s slot while Bouchard rotated to the middle/left D spot as well. In some ways it looked like the PP1 rotations. Certainly much more fluidity from the D in the last while. Who knew you could play a 5 player unit?

wheatnoil

Which means if Carolina takes away the pass to the slot, McDavid could go back to the point with Bouchard on his off-side for a one timer with Nuge covering on the left side. Or he could go back to Nuge as outlet if he’s under pressure who can pass it over to Bouchard. Curious to see if we see it function effectively again but with a different McDavid option.

northerndancer

exactly! That line is a gem and when you add a couple of mobile, creative D, I expect the O time will be gi-normous. There may have to be 3, 4,5th assists allocated for each goal lol. It is the overpassing Oilers after all. So damn pretty to watch these guys.

Victoria Oil

I noticed that the Oilers D had a lot of successful pinches last night, especially in the first period (although the pinch (by Nurse, I believe) on the goal against didn’t work out so well).

Earlier in the season, a lot of these pinches ended up badly. Not sure if the difference is better judgment, Coffey Magic or luck.

northerndancer

or ‘shhhhh…….’ I know everyone, including me, especially me?, works on trying to figure out what went wrong etc. but I often forget just how close to competitive this level of sports is. A few people banged up, a lack of pre-season focus by a coaching staff that included one who had suffered a tremendous personal loss in the summer, some garbage games by tenders – and everyone is spinning with a lack of confidence. And some questionable coaching moves that made it less likely that the team would rebound quickly. 11-7 works well if all, especially D, are meshing well. But early in the season no one is. C’est la vie

A team 5% off potential due to and of these and more and you are not getting the jump on anyone. We see that all year long with travel etc. The same two teams played in Carolina and in Edmonton. Complete reversals.

OriginalPouzar

I don’t consider that a pinch by Nurse – Nurse was the one that carried the puck out of the defensive zone and transported it through the neutral zone and in deed in the offensive.

That was a transition/rush play, to me, which was all good until his poor decision on the pass back.

On the actual pinches, for me, a major difference is the forward support.

wheatnoil

One of my favourite things about McDavid (the real McDavid, not the one that was presumably injured for several games this season) is how he creates something out of absolutely nothing. There’s nothing happening on the happening. Not even a window of something happening. Then, blink, and McDavid has a grade A chance. You can’t look away for a second or you miss it and you’re wondering what the hell just happened. So you ask the person next to you, who was watching the whole thing, and they also don’t know how it happened.

That sort of play happened with that last Zach Hyman goal. But there was something else that happened on that play too.

There are times when McDavid is ‘really’ on his game. When he’s had an extra serving of Wheaties for breakfast and he’s the best version of himself. When that happens, it looks like he just ‘decides’ something is going to happen. Then he forces his will on the game and demands it so.

It just looked like McDavid ‘decided’ he wanted to give Hyman a hat trick. He was buzzing for awhile, the Hurricanes looked to carry the puck out of the zone, and McDavid thought, “Nah, I don’t think so, I want Hyman to score.” In about 1.2 seconds, he’s picked a guy’s pocket, walked around another, drew three players to him and fed the pass perfectly to Hyman to finish it off and all any Hurricane can do is shake their heads.

What a damned amazing performance.

Shane

Fantastic post!

Chelios is a Dinosaur

First we had to argue McDavid was better than Matthews.

Then we had to argue Leon was.

Now we get to argue Hyman is better and I’m loving it.

Side

Matthews is a tremendous player and the media really put a target on his back by annointing him to be the best player of this generation.

I ask in all seriousness – what’s the deal with Matthews so far this year? He is still putting up very good points and is 5th overall in goals so far.

I know previous years when he wasn’t scoring like crazy the excuses were either it was because he had an injured wrist, or because he was more focused on “committing to perfecting his 2 way game”.

This year from what I have read, his 2 way game isn’t as good as it has been before, and he seems healthy. A brief look at rabid Leaf fans opinions seem to suggest “something seems off”.

Is it the team Treliving put together around Matthews? Is he playing through an injury like McDavid was? Did Keefe change up their systems?

If anyone has an answer, I would appreciate knowing so I can be more informed in my trashing of the very good player who unfortunately plays for the Leafs.

Pretendergast

He’s on pace for 60 goals. He’s fine. I think the hype train is a bit more muted this year since Connor put up 150+ points. Same with Mackinnon. It really isn’t a conversation anymore imo.

Willie styles has also taken the spotlight this year.

My theory is the media’s been saying the regular season doesn’t matter for the Leafs for years and some of the players believe them now. I think a team from the state of Florida will boot them out this year.

Chelios is a Dinosaur

I think the correct hockey diagnosis is:

”no jam”

jfry

Claim Foudy and build depth through waivers.

OriginalPouzar

His cap hit is actually under league min for this season.

Of course, he doesn’t look to be an actual NHL player and, aside from Adam Erne, swapping any other roster player for him likely makes the team worse right away (including Gagner and Hamblin).

Not to mention, a current roster player will already need to go to make room for Holloway within a few weeks and, of course, what an effing kick to the nuts to a player like Lavoie that would be.

No thank you.

jfry

He’s a young kid and might not be the answer, but picking all these guys up and then sending them down and seeing if they stick with our team is a better answer for our depth than having more Caggiula and McKegg’s. If we celebrated the Grubbe trade, this is absolutely inline with that way of thinking. Not sure why you’d be negative on this suggestion.

The oil never use the waiver wire, and never have draft picks. The blog host has been telling the team to use this tool for years. This is a kid that had pedigree, is still young and would be free to acquire.

Our bottom six isn’t so strong we can’t send down someone. Plus with Broberg sent out there’s room to wheel.

Plus he’s free to acquire! If I hadn’t mentioned that yet. If he turns into a late blooming Pitlick, that’s wine! If he sucks and we don’t care, waive him and see if he makes it through. Seems like a no brainer if you look at our current prospect pool. We should have taken Fagemo earlier in the year as well. Pick up 10 guys a year at this point to try and create a young depth pool.

Darth Tu

While I understand what you’re arguing for the 50 man list is a thing. You can’t just grab infinitely. You’d need to hope that someone else was claiming the players you send down. we are at 45/50 so in theory you can grab a few more players, just not be all whilly nilly grab happy about it.

As for them being better than the bottom 6… the only guy you could argue he’s 100% better than is Erne. Hamblin is providing real value. Janmark is on a hot streak (I know I’ve been down on the player in the past, but he’s making me look silly now). Gagner, despite slower boots has the tools and the brain to be useful. Foegele, McLeod, Ryan? I’m not waiving any of them for a player with potential that may not pan out.

Now if he clears waivers he might be worth trading for. He’s on his second org with Nashville and was a waiver claim for them, so his value is definitely not high. A late round pick and they should be happy.

I’ll be interested to see if Columbus steps back up to claim him back tbh. They’re the team with the massive sunk cost that lost him for nothing once already.

OriginalPouzar

but they can’t send him down if they claim him – they would have to put him back on waivers.

Spartacus

Ryan Jones says hello.

Chelios is a Dinosaur

Very few of us were still + on this team at 2-9-1. I’ll admit when I’m wrong but today doesn’t feel like the day! That said I feel like holding my breath until true .500.

Elgin R

Do not take counsel of your fears.

The good ship Oiler will make the playoffs and once in the dance it is injuries, goalering, luck and the good play. I have my chair and cooler all ready for the parade as I never give up on this team until the last game played! Remember ’06.

thelongdark

Was that the best Carolina team that showed up last night?

No, but it doesn’t matter because even if it was I think the Oilers still win.

Chelios is a Dinosaur

Jumping on a team and getting up by 2 in 40 seconds is a great way to turn a good team into a bad team for 59 minutes. Full marks to the Oilers for Carolina’s poor performance.

McNuge93

Yes, it definitely happens to us. Oilers get jumped on early and its game over after 1. So doing it to someone else is nothing to apologize for.

Ice Sage

Also, the Oilers have jumped to 2-0 leads recently – TB game comes to mind – only to crap it away. The team is now showing more resilience, with opportunism built in. Luvin’ it

OriginalPouzar

The Oilers didn’t score on the PP.

The second line had an off night and didn’t produce at all.

The Oilers still scored 6 goals (all at even strength) and thoroughly thrashed a good team.

Full value for the 5 goal victory.

Yes, its only one victory (another victory) but one that shows up, with certainty, what this team can be on any given night – elite

Shane

I was shocked when I saw Kane and Drai with a -1 each in a 6-1 game with no PP goals.

godot10

Nurse and Boucard own the -1.

OriginalPouzar

Bouchard:

1) had an assist on one goal
2) had an assist on another goal (and to two “pluses”)
3) made a wonderful defensive play that led to the third goal getting the unofficial “3rd assist” but no plus as he changed after making the play
4) change just before another goal was scored.

No doubt Darnell Nurse made the primary mistake on the goal against and Bouchard was hung out to dry on a 2 on 1 – he almost broke that pass up but can’t be faulted for the goal.

Bouchard could have been plus 4 as opposed to plus 1 very easily

Harpers Hair
Shane

Your thoughts on Evan Bouchards recent play?

Perhaps even comparatively speaking with someone like say, oh I don’t know, Noah Dobson?

Harpers Hair

Bouchard 23GP 5G 19A 24P -5

Dobson 24GP 5G 17A 22P +7

One appears to be better defensively while them being very close offensively.

Harpers Hair

Worth noting…Dobson plays on the top paring and plays an extra two minutes average.

Elgin R

So what! Bouchard is OUR guy not someone on another team in another division. Almost zero chance they meet in the playoffs. Oilers can win the west where as the Islanders are a tire fire. Have fun trolling today from your mom’s basement.

Gollum

Doesn’t the +/- need to consider everyone on the ice at the time? Including the goalies?

Last edited 9 months ago by Gollum
Harpers Hair

Of course…but a defenseman who makes glaring errors in coverage will contribute to goals against.

Elgin R

Which dman is your new anointed one? ALL dmen make mistakes you semiliterate cretin.

OriginalPouzar

I had to google both words for definition.

godot10

Bouchard gets to play with McDavid or Draisaitl a lot in a weaker conference.

Gollum

And he was also playing in front of two slumping goalies and a D partner with a gimpy leg. There’s no denying that Bouchard himself had many brain cramps, but he was one of many this season.

ArmchairGM

In all honesty, I’ve been high on Skinner since he beat Carter Hart in a head-to-head matchup in the WHL playoffs as a teenager.

Elgin R

Some guy named Phil Gretzky over at Oil On Whyte wants to trade Kulak and Erne for 3 third round picks and Noah Gregor to make room for Broberg.

Note: I have time for Noah Gregor – thought he was a good 3rd/ 4th liner for the Sharks.

Kulak in the playoffs last year was money. NO way should this trade even be considered. I guess he is just looking for clicks (and it worked!).

godot10

One can play Broberg 2/3rds of the games and not trade Kulak. Load manage the rest of the D.

Elgin R

Why does this seem so obvious to us and the Oiler brass does not play him?

OriginalPouzar

The coach thinks the Kulak over Broberg gives the team the best chance to win and that is the sole factor for the head coach right now.

I don’t think its any more complicated than that.

Tarkus

“One Little Victory”. The first song from Rush’s album Vapor Trails, which was the first album after Neil Peart’s hiatus from the band.

Peart lost his daughter and (then) only child in a car accident and then his wife less than a year later from cancer. He was such a wreck that he essentially quit the band and went on sabbatical with just his motorcycle and his thoughts, resulting in his book Ghost Rider and his eventual return to the band.

“One Little Victory” begins with a thunderous drum intro as if he’s saying, “I’m back, mother____ers!”

(Side note: I was in Edmonton to see Rush in 2002 on said tour. Still my favorite concert to this day.)

Jerk

My favorite Rush record from their modern era.

barry.moore23

Tarkus this is the kid of shit that makes this blog so amazing. Now I have to read that book.

I live in Phoenix but am not connected enough to get you tickets for the game here. Oh how I miss Gila River Arena. Hit me on email if there is anything I can do to help while you are here barry.moore23@gmail.com

Tarkus

Thanks for the offer. Much appreciated!

Already have flight, hotel and game tickets ($$$!!!) sorted. Now just looking for a couple other things to do while there. Probably nothing extravagant, as the better half and I will spend a lot of time simply unwinding.

Last edited 9 months ago by Tarkus
BornInAGretzkyJersey

Take a drive up to the Grand Canyon. It’s worth it, in spades.

OriginalPouzar

The game in mid-Feb? The wife and I will also be there.

Tarkus

Sweet!

Look for me at the game–I’ll be wearing an Oilers jersey.

ArmchairGM

That 2nd goal looked like something Vegas did to Edmonton in the playoffs last year. Have a forward loop high to pull the defenseman out of position, and then have Ekholm beat his man to the net.

Perhaps Carolina needs to consider changing their defensive systems. 😋

Pretendergast

Agreed, if anyone knows about getting beat on man defence, this team is certainly it.

Glad they learned and exploited. Not many times you’re gonna get Rod the Bod so flustered he rambles incoherently about how bad they’re doing.

More please.

Elgin R

Yes to that. Slavin got schooled on the first goal – no urgency or respect for Foegele. Burns looks old and slow. Pesce looked bad as well.

Canes are way overrated and have been for years. If you have questionable tending then you need the Glimmer Twins on offense.

Go Oil.

Harpers Hair

Oilers send Broberg to Bakersfield and call up Gleason as per Sportsnet.

hunter1909

Your thoughts on last night Oilers v Hurricanes game.

Harpers Hair

Carolina was terrible.

Their coach blistered them on the bench and afterward.

A good sign that the Oilers beat a team currently in a playoff position since those wins have been hard to come by.

John Chambers

Every team they beat over this 5-game run is over .500, and the last three are against teams holding a playoff position.

Harpers Hair

Anaheim?

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Anaheim?

I’ve been assured that they’re the real deal.

ArmchairGM

Oilers send Broberg to Bakersfield and call up Gleason as per Sportsnet.

If they aren’t going to play him, this is the right move. Ben Gleason can just as easily sit in the press box. Broberg needs ice time.

achotai

“Coaches look more at the now, the upcoming game, and what we need and how we’re going to play,” Knoblauch said. “The NHL is about winning.”

https://theathletic.com/5118043/2023/12/06/oilers-philip-broberg-trade-lineup/

Forgive me… but I just don’t understand this attitude! Allow me to paint a picture: Oilers are in a heated playoff series against the Golden Knights… Ekholm and Kulak both go down with serious injuries… Now the team is relying on a young Broberg to play defence…..

Wouldn’t “The NHL is about winning” mean you’d want your young defenceman to have made his mistakes during the regular season and be ready to go? Wouldn’t that mean you take a few losses during the regular season in order to build in a rotation among your lower players?

Last edited 9 months ago by achotai
Just J

I don’t know how much margin this team has for young D mistakes in the regular season. Sure, in an ideal world he’d be seasoned up for the playoffs, but this year’s start has not created a very ideal situation.

godot10

Like the veteran D have not been a tire fire for the first 25% of the season.

The Oilers wouldn’t play Broberg when the defense was playing well for the last 25% of last season.

And they wouldn’t play Broberg when the defense ws a tire fire for the first 25% of this season.

Elgin R

Yes, yes, yes!!! Something is off with this situation. There must be more to the story that we, as fans, are not privy too. Put either Vinny or Kulak in the press box and give Broberg some at bats.

This is nuts – the guy is an 8th overall pick with talent.

hunter1909

Yakupov; JP; M.A.B…. lol

Elgin R

But Yak, JP etc got lots of playing time to reach that conclusion. We don’t know about Broberg. Play the man!

hunter1909

Ten games into your first ever big league coaching job, no one is concerned about developing players at the cost of losing games.

SoCaloil

If you’re winning 6-1 you have room for young D to make mistakes.

But you know..this is not a daily occurrance. Maybe it will come.

DevilsLettuce

The Oilers can’t afford losing games due to mistakes from young defenders. Broberg is on a team that’s cup or bust, he’s made it clear through the media he’d rather play elsewhere.

It was a mistake to draft the kid, and it’s a mistake how the kid and agent have handled their end.

It’s best for a cup or bust team to go get defenders that know their role with a bit more maturity.

cowboy bill

I think you are reading too much into this. Basically he is just saying they dont want to not look too far ahead and just take it one game at a time. Simple stuff.

Last edited 9 months ago by cowboy bill
Our Edmonton Operation

Cap hit aside next year, I like Connor Brown’s hustle. He’s trying and I wish he’d get his first goal with us. We saw how an empty netter for McLeod for his first goal seemed to give him an extra pep in his step last night. I’m an ex-beer league bum, but I was thinking that if I got 17 games playing with the likes of McDavid, Draisaitl, and Kane, surely I’d get a garbage goal or one off my leg by now? And surely I’d have more than one assist by now? I did notice that Max Domi, who has talent like Brown, only got his first goal of the season just recently, so sometimes people go through spells. I just hope Brown doesn’t have a Tobias Rieder kind of season.

But I do recognize that Brown’s coming off serious injury and he got injured again a few weeks ago.

dustrock

I think Skinner is an NHL goalie. Most goalies are inconsistent.

The problem is the playoffs – if he’s off, we need a solid tandem to come in and hold the fort.

It’s not Skinner’s fault, but Holland’s.

hunter1909

Great point.

In 2006 Oilers entered the finals using a poor quality backup. Once the starter got injured the series was as good as over.

Shane

They had two backups at the time. And picked the wrong one in game 1.

Oddspell

My position on Skinner is that he has lots of potential to be a long term solution in net, but to expect a second year goalie to be a full time starter on a contender is asking for trouble. When he was struggling I felt we needed someone to give him a break and take hold in the other goalie spot. Now that he’s recovering, I’d still like to have a reliable journeyman (at the least) in the other spot, just in case.

Pickard seems to be doing well in the backup spot, and perhaps this tandem could hit the long odds and win a cup, but I’d feel better if we had a Merzlikins or Mrazek instead. Even if Campbell can just find his consistency and give us mostly average starts instead of quality starts and disastrous starts.

godot10

Evan Bouchard also played the two on one badly on the goal against when Nurse made a really bad decision to make a back pass in the offensive zone with a 5-0 lead. (i.e Bouchard defended neither the shot, nor the pass)

dustrock

as predictable as a radioactive clock

godot10

death, taxes, and godot.

Gollum

It seemed to me that Bouchard attempted to defend the pass. You can’t win them all.

dustrock

He made Slavin pass over his stick and tried to hit it with his glove. He didn’t, but not the worst 2-on-1 coverage I’ve ever seen.

Todd Macallan

Missed it in the comments last night due to having to watch the game on delay today, but a big hat tip to Dustrock for the Drai/Mr. November reference. Saw the National live for the first time this summer and hands down the best show I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been to quite a few in my day.

Also a great game last night, let’s goooooo!

Last edited 9 months ago by Todd Macallan
Wonder Llama

Oh hell yes. Somehow they make being middle class and middle-aged seem epic.

dustrock

ha ha thanks. Great player, great band. I haven’t loved anything they’ve put out since Trouble Will Find Me, but saw them at Folk Fest last year and it was incredible.

Sad Dad band of all time.

Todd Macallan

Hahaha yes Sad Dad indeed. Alligator/Boxer era will likely be peak for me always but I’ve really enjoyed I Am Easy to Find and First Two Pages of Frankenstein a lot.

leadfarmer

One game increased our playoff probs by 5% on Doms charts

leadfarmer

That game was a treat
now do the same to the wild

VanIsleOil

Awesome Brian Eno/Janmark reference LT. I think Eno and Bowie’s Berlin Trilogy of records is Bowie’s best work. Eno is a genius.

Paulie

Couldn’t agree more with your “Eno as genius” comment. My favorite Roxy Music album is “For Your Pleasure”, on which Eno played a central role.

My favorite all time Eno work is the song “Baby’s On Fire”, which features one of the best guitar solos of all time. I’ve read that Eno processed solos from both Robert Fripp and Paul Rudolph to produce it. Eno also layered his “snake guitar” throughout the song. Great beat, surreal lyrics, Eno is a genius!

Oh yeah, great game too!

Tarkus

My favorite Roxy Music album is “For Your Pleasure”, on which Eno played a central role.

If that album taught me one thing, it’s that “boys / will be boys / will be boy-oy-oys”.

Bruce McCurdy

Been listening to For Your Pleasure a few times lately on the occasion of its 50th anniversary this year. Groundbreaker.

Roxy Music’s second album & Eno’s last with the band. One can almost hear the fracture occurring in real time in the remarkably jagged piano solo in the title track that closes out the album. Very early example of sampling — 50 years ago! — in which Eno sampled his own performance in “Chance Meeting” from the first RM disc, processed it & mixed it in.

Bruce McCurdy

Splendid review of For Your Pleasure here, some real meat on these bones:

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/roxy-music-for-your-pleasure/

Buddy

Haven’t listened to them in years, but I used to love Fripp and Eno’s albums from that same general period, especially No Pussyfooting. Hypnotically beautiful.

VanIsleOil

Speaking of Fripp’s hypnotic guitar playing, check out Bowie’s all time classic “Heroe’s” with Fripps amazing guitar work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROkWgb9iIGQ

Wonder Llama

There’s that period in the mid-70s when Eno and Bowie towered over the pop music landscape. That run of albums – Warm Jets, Tiger Mtn., Green World, Before & After Science – was incredible.

Just J

Hard to believe this is the same team. I’m starting to come around on Skinner as a starter who’s backup is not a 1b but a Backup. I don’t think that can be Pickard for a significant stretch, but it doesn’t have to be Gibson either. I think they’re doing the right thing by trying to find out whether or not it can be Campbell (this year – summer time buyout and Jack should be happy to take the money and run). The team is giving Jack time and giving the bosses time. What looked like something that had to be done regardless of the cost 2 weeks ago has calmed down quite nicely. Is it all Paul Coffey? I @#$$# hope so! 15 years from now we’ll have a sports jacket raising for him to go beside his jersey. I don’t know what it is – I think Stuart is probably more responsible for the xs and os but Coffey knows something that he is sharing with this d corp and they look like an entirely different group.

Elgin R

Give Captian Pickard Chicago Dec 12th and Jersey Dec 21st and lets see what he can do. His numbers career-wise are worse than Jack’s, but man I do not trust Campbell at all.

And now that the team is playing ‘out-of-this-world’, they need a Starship captain.

DevilsLettuce

Is Coffey trying to price Bouchard out of town or recover Nurses trade value? this defensive genius is sick!

They need to find a tender to pair with Skinner still.

I’m not sure how the organization can stomach keeping Brown next year while probably selling off Foggy this season. Big mistake.

fishman

Foggy had a big game last night!

Elgin R

As long as Kenny is not making the deals we should be OK. DO NOT overpay this guy! If he wants the chance to win a cup in Edmonton then he needs to take less than market.

hunter1909

Funny how “Awaiting for approval” kicks in.

Last edited 9 months ago by hunter1909
Brantford Boy

Look, I get it. McDavid’s moments are etched in our brain from the Flames playoffs give and go from Keith, last years LA series game 6, the Rangers comeback on Lowe’s jersey retirement. I’m sure others will disagree but in my opinion that was McDavid’s best 60 minute defensive effort. Down low behind the net helping the defenceman. It was a thrill to watch and he still got his apples playing sound hockey. Great team game catapulted by the leadership of the Captain. More please!

Melman

He was also not shy about throwing himself around early on. He had some strong, physical shifts in the Canes end in the 1st

Pretendergast

It was a terrific game by 97 absolutely. Game 7 against LA 2 years ago is the single greatest individual hockey performance I have ever and probably will ever see. The only one that can top that is himself.

I respectfully disagree, but a positive conversation no matter how you slice it.

What a player

OriginalPouzar

When McDavid takes over a game like that in the Stanley Cup Finals, and he will, that will surpass it.

And, yes, he will be an Oiler at the time!

YYCOil

Connor Brown, Erne, Gagner, Hamlin, and Kulak are beige hockey players, years after they leave the city they will be spoke about like Brett Callighan and Randy Gregg. Kulak and Brown are being paid well enough to be impactful.

Get Holloway, and Lavoie and Broberg into the lineup, while we have enough talent for them to break into the NHL, or risk more beige UFAs for the next 10 years.

JimmyV1965

I think Hamlin has been great. He plays like a demon out there – like he’s playing for a job.

Dee Dee

Nice intro John Henry!

hunter1909

Maybe it’s only me but Nurse seems to be concentrating on defending recently.

As if Coffey took him aside and explained that he need not try to play like Paul Coffey – instead playing like the big nasty dude he actually is.

DevilsLettuce

TNT did a break down, no more criss crossing, no more trying to do your partners job. Simple structure, full effort.

Pretendergast

Any link to this? Their twitter has Anson Carter with an excellent breakdown of the Oil’s offense but I can’t find the Coffey bench convo nor the Nurse piece you mention.

Mucho appreciado.

meanashell11

I’m pretty sure it was just Darren Pang speaking during the game. Not an analyst per se.

DevilsLettuce

I have no link, I believe the Coffey interview was played near the beginning of the 2nd period, was pre-recorded during intermission possibly.

During play I believe either late in the 2nd or early 3rd Pang and partner were talking about their conversation with Knob and how it’s playing out on the ice. Teammates trusting eachother and playing for one another.

Kept taking puppy out during intermission, so it wasn’t during those.

Shamus23

Great win. Period

OriginalPouzar

Great news on Holloway from coach last night.

He said there is a chance he’s back before the holiday break but, if not, almost certainly after.

Hamblin, Gagner, Erne – I think Erne heads down and Gagner heads to the pressbox if everyone remains healthy.

I don’t think Hamblin should come out given his is the center and, well, just in the right place and does create energy.

Janmark has taken himself 100% out of this conversation with his great play since coming back from injury.

Melman

Credit to Hamblin for making it very hard on the coaches to pull him out of the lineup. He is 10 minutes of buzzing, hard work with a layer of good positioning to boot

docweb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzFBn32gbWU

Elvis Costello’s Dad….Hammer Time!!!

OriginalPouzar

I know Bouchard had 17 points in 12 playoff games (although only 2 at 5 on 5) and he was over a PPG overall last season/playoffs after the Ekholm trade, however, his offensive game has been taken to an entire new tier since the coaching change.

The intel is the Coffey wants the d-man to focus on “making plays” and that is easier to do and better plays are made when d-man are moving their feet and skating.

Bouchard was always able to make plays with the puck on his stick but, my goodness, he is now making plays with his feet and creating impact plays almost on a shift by shift basis like no other player on the team can save McDavid (and maybe Drai).

He’s added the Karlsson like element (although he can’t skate like Karlsson and will never be quite a peak-Karlsson level).

DevilsLettuce

Adding the Karlsson element to this comment was a mistake.

hunter1909

Players have radically cut down that insanely stupid pass along the boards to no one in particular. That “don’t blame me because the puck is going to go at least 75 feet away from me” etc.

PokeCheck

It’s a shame we can’t have TNT doing some, let alone all, Oilers games. The gulf between their broadcasts and what everyone else is doing… stark.

meanashell11

Totally agree. I like when they said McD should be on the Selke shortlist. God forbid any SN analyst saying the same thing when the God-like Matthews is in Toronto.

pixel-bender

Sportsnet takes its viewership for granted. Period. That’s not to say those who work on the broadcast aren’t working hard, or what they do is in any way easy — it’s not. Clearly.

But in terms of paying for top talent, a willingness to invest, grow and evolve that’s just not going to be in the cards for any Canadian broadcast. We don’t even get a pre-game show for playoff games for crying out loud — Epcor can track the intermissions of playoff games via water usage but apparently the ratings don’t warrant the investment.

So, we’re stuck with affable former tough guys who truly believe that success comes entirely via effort, skating in straight lines, and hitting defenders hard two seconds after an outlet pass that resulted in a 3 on 2 going the other way.

If you’re not curious, if you don’t think there’s more you need to learn, if you can’t look past the granular of a specific play, period, or game and incorporate that into your work I don’t want to listen to you. If you think being “old school” justifies never changing your thinking, or how you approach your job I don’t want to listen to you.

I watched a Kraken broadcast where the broadcast team identified a shift in Seattle’s penalty killing tactics in real time and why it worked against the opposition’s power play in real time.

Raise your hand if you think that’s something our broadcast team is capable of.

I don’t expect them to embrace advanced analytics — but as someone who has never played at a high level or taken any sort of coaching clinic I would think I would learn something about tactics or strategy from time to time. And unless you think “gaining confidence”, “having a shooters’ mentality”, or “simplifying your game” counts you won’t watching Canadian broadcasts.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Sportsnet has always been terrible. I miss TSNs coverage, especially Duthie and Miller.

Harpers Hair

Missing most of all…Ray Ferraro.

His analysis on some Canucks games this season is a breath of fresh air.

Almost criminal that Canadian national broadcasts let him get away.

pixel-bender

Ray Ferraro is an exceptional broadcaster. He’s whip smart and is able to express complex insights in an accessible, concise manner with a sense of humour.

I firmly believe that a foundational element of his background that sets him apart is that his experience as a player is one of a being smaller, highly skilled and having to compete against slower, less talented men. He has an inherit empathy towards skilled players, speed, scoring, and creativity — and not one that favours slow, less-talented “heart and soul guys”.

Harpers Hair

Nailed it.

Kert

No question, but does he know who has a shooter’s mentality?

Bruce McCurdy

Anytime anyone shoots he has a shooter’s mentality.

Kert

No question.

813.52Ran

We’ve turned “shooters mentality” into the drinking game in our house.

pixel-bender

We’ve turned “shooters mentality” into the drinking game in our house

Brave. Perhaps foolish. Brave and foolish.

MushedPeas

We track ‘no question’s

Munny 2.0

One would hope the game involves doing shooters then! That would tickle the Godel inside me.

JAMCON

Also “can-opener” means open another beer.

Litke 94

Maybe some good news then that Rogers is reportedly not going to renew their NHL rights. It was a money drain for them, apparently.

That agreement looked terrible the day it was signed, and has remained that way ever since.

My question for those who know more about this than me. If Rogers decide to get out of the NHL completely in terms of their current agreement, is it a given then that TSN will just completely take over? Is there even another entity in Canada that could split the rights, as it was before? I wonder what that will do for the price of rights… can’t imagine it will be good.

DevilsLettuce

I wouldn’t rule out streaming services.

Munny 2.0

I believe they’ve looked into the NBA, but live sports is problematic for them. I’ve heard the reasons but can’t remember the details so I’ll avoid going there in case I’m inaccurate.

Right now football is destroying every other sport on television… and sport is destroying all other forms of programming. College football games routinely get five times the viewers that NBA marquee matchups get. Rumor is, Unless Silver can get the NBA’s declining viewership turned around, he’s gone inside 24 months. And they’re waaay better off than the gordawful state of TV news or other legacy programming.

None of that bodes well for hockey or the NHL. Rogers bowing out without taking a long hard look at their product tells you everything you need to know about Canadian television.

Harpers Hair

The league will likely do what they’ve done in the US and go with multiple broadcast partners.

winchester

My lord, listen to absolute crap broadcasters of Boston for example. They describe every 5th touch of the puck and I’m put to sleep.

im completely happy with our broadcast team, miles better that any others I have heard.

if you want change, be careful as It will be Hrudey on his way.

Harpers Hair

Worst in Canada and its not close.

barry.moore23

We watch a lot of different teams play and i am constantly telling Lorrie “look how those guys defend why can’t the Oilers do that”. Last night i was like “look Lorrie, that’s how you defend”. I’m not anywhere near an expert, but it looked good to me. Woo hoo !!!

Pretendergast

LT runs in guns ablazing this morning! I like it.

Shoutout to Ekholm who has articulated the impact Coffey is having on them to us and showing us by making a wonderful read on the 2nd goal.

97 dragging 4 Canes then hitting Hyman with such an easy goal even he was bewildered.
That line with Nuge is cooking with gas right now.

Fun night. I almost want them to play LA and Colorado next to quiet some more naysayers.

Side

Already I miss hearing about how incredible it was that L.A. was able to play 2 poor periods against Columbus but come back to win it in the 3rd. I only hope the Oilers can achieve such greatness.

Harpers Hair

Both things can be true at the same time.

Tonight the Kings go into Montreal with a very good chance of setting an all time NHL record for consecutive road wins to start a season at 11.

A debate on the Jeff Marek show this morning about the best team in the NHL…the Rangers or Kings.

Who could have seen this coming.🤓

godot10

San Jose was always the best team in the league. #ADoubtingGodot

Side

Reading your post history, you certainly didn’t see this coming for the Kings.

Harpers Hair

Nonsense.

Ive been writing about them for years.

Side

You have been saying that Dallas is the best team and earlier this year you were saying they were cup favourites. You were also saying that earlier this season about Vegas. And then Vancouver before they started regressing – sorry, “sliding” as you call it. And this is all after you were saying a few years ago about Colorado and how it’s “just a matter of seeing how many cups they win”.

You claim every team is the best and that they will all win it all at some point.

Just wait until the Kings start regressing – sorry – sliding and I’m sure you will just declare the hottest team at that time to be the best (unless it’s the Oilers in which case you will pick the second best team because your view will be that the Oilers are “due for regression”).

meanashell11

did you not “book it” a Carolina/Dallas final?

Side

It is actually pretty funny how this worked out.

He was saying to book it on Dallas and Carolina, but now that LA and the Rangers are leading both respectively win %, he is saying he knew it would happen this whole time.

“Dallas and Carolina, book it!”

LA passes Dallas and Rangers pass Carolina

“I always knew it would be LA and the Rangers! Book it!”

Scungilli Slushy

That goal was so good, so brilliant, it is hard to acknowledge what it was. It took a sec to register

Happened so fast with so many brilliant pieces to it, Hyman’s expression said it all

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone else do that, like that, that fast

Harpers Hair

@BCurlock

I see a lot of kudos for Paul Coffey handling the D and the + changes in play. I wouldn’t take anything away from the HOFer for sure.

However, weakside D activation, quick transition play and playing up through the middle instead of the wall.

All traits of Knoblauch AHL teams.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

Serious question: don’t most teams play this way?

Woody had the team playing like this for stretches. IMO the issue is consistent execution.

But I also do not know much about the nitty gritty of hockey tactics.

Pretendergast

Good point. Go tell Ekholm he’s wrong and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

TheGreatBigMac

Bottom 6 is looking pretty good too. Who comes out when Holloway is back? Nice problem to have.

Elgin R

I would say Connor Brown. He should of been called for holding but the Canes scored anyways. Brown does contribute to the PK but nothing else is rhyming for him.

OriginalPouzar

Erne down, Gagner out – with the way Hamblin is currently playing.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

I have always been lukewarm on Skinner. He has been dynamite the last few games.

Let’s see how the rest of the season shakes out. I want to be wrong. His overall sv% is .889 this season.

I think KK has helped the PK.

But overall, I think dumping Campbell has made the bigger difference. Hard to play well when you effectively have an empty net and no extra skater all game.

meanashell11

I have always hoped Skinner could be the goalie we are looking for and still do. He is coming along and this situation will bear fruit down the road.

I watched the TNT broadcast (much better than the SN) and Panger (I hate that nickname) pointed out that the Hurricanes are having similar issues with goaltending. He said you don’t have to be .900 with the shot advantage they have (+10/gm) but you have to be at least .890. Well Skinner is there.

Durag

Good Skinner is very good. He is streaky, which can probably be said of just about any goalie his age.

There will likely come a stretch where a tandem partner needs to carry the mail. I don’t think we have any mail-carriers in the organization at the moment.

Scungilli Slushy

True. Last night he was square and efficient, and upright in the net, not a lot to shoot at

John Chambers

I think Cal Pickard can hold his own against a weaker team. Hope he gets a start soon.
Maybe Chicago. Then NJ in the first of a B2B.

OriginalPouzar

Whenever he is asked about the PK the coach goes directly to Mark Stuart and it really sounds like Stuart has full autonomy and coach doesn’t put much thought in to the PK.

I’m sure they do discuss personnel though.