Ten years ago, this blog was talking about smart hockey men. The following is the opener for a post on July 27, 2014.
(First published July 2014
Bill Torrey is a really smart guy. He made one of the truly unusual trades in the game’s history while building the New York Islanders. The 1973-74 Islanders won 19 games and lost 41 despite the presence of Denis Potvin, Billy Smith, Billy Harris and a few good veterans like Eddie Westfall.
At the draft that summer, NHL teams could draft one underage player (because of WHA raids) but it had to be in the first two rounds. Torrey selected (from the normal draft eligible group of 19-year olds) Clark Gillies at No. 4 that year, and then at No. 22 (in the second round) he grabbed 18-year old Bryan Trottier. I loved those picks because they were WHL kids, and although I didn’t know they would end up being HOFers it was pretty clear the Islanders did a nice job drafting.
Torrey didn’t stop there. I’ve never quite figured out why people forget about this, but NYI made a trade in September that weakened their current blue line and improved the center position immediately. On September 10, 1974 the Islanders traded the rights to defenseman Larry Hornung (who was a successful WHA player for the Winnipeg Jets at that time) and a player to be named later to Kansas City Scouts (a new entry to the league) for 1974 draft pick (he was just taken!) Bob Bourne. A week later, defender Bart Crashley was sent to the Scouts to complete the trade (Crashley would play half a season with the Scouts).
Torrey (and Al Arbour, the coach) kept Gillies and Bourne with the big club (they were 20) and sent young Trottier back to junior for seasoning. The club won 33 games in 1974-75, added Trottier to the band for the fall of 1975 and that group were natural-born killers for a decade.
OILERS SUMMER
Imagine. Two centers in the same draft, and on first blush the reaction surrounded trading two NHL calibre defensemen to get it done. Bill Torrey did a lot of things people remember. That trade is one that doesn’t get mentioned at all, but I think it was the kind of thing organizations should consider more often.
If you can give up a player who doesn’t move the needle for a future player who you believe can play a feature role (Bourne was an excellent two-way center, the Islanders had four or more through 1975-85) at 20? Music!
All of which is to say that I believe the Oilers may have pulled a ‘Bart Crashley for Bob Bourne’ when acquiring Matthew Savoie. The deal came after a flurry of activity and perhaps has been overlooked by some fans. No one should look past the Savoie trade. Ryan McLeod is a fine NHL center, but the potential of Savoie makes the deal a winner.
Bill Torrey, may he rest in peace, would have approved.
The Lowdown is back at noon today, Sports 1440. We have two hours of hockey talk with guest Jason Gregor and a few other surprises. We’ll talk Elks (oh those Elks), Olympics (O Canada!), baseball’s trade deadline and of course tons of Oilers chat. I’m at Lowetide on twitter, in the comments section here and on the Sports 1440 text line at 1.833.401.1440 directly.
New for The Athletic: Oilers trade targets: 3 defencemen who can solve final major roster issue
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5664221/2024/07/29/edmonton-oilers-trade-targets-defence-andersson/
When it comes to RD, Gustav Lindstrom is the only UFA of interest to me that is still available. I would seriously consider signing him and try to sign him on a 3 year deal at league minimum.
I think his is vastly undervalued and under tutelage of a fellow viking and Paul Coffey could grow as a #7/3rd pairing defender
https://theleafsnation.com/news/gustav-lindstrom-good-fallback-option-if-jani-hakanpaa-deal-falls-through
Great find. He has the look of a player not getting a chance, his main partner was Vaakanainen who had worse rel stats. And he’s not small
I wrote about him here:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5631996/2024/07/12/oilers-free-agents-vrana-yamamoto/
I’d bet on on a Drai extension this morning so Stan can stand at the podium smiling….
Looking for left-handed d who could potentially fill our 2RD hole at the deadline (expiring contracts), it’s a bit tricky.
Many of the guys I’m looking at are pretty slow, Provorov, Pettersson, Gavrikov, Doumolin…
I was surprised to see that OEL is still pretty fast. I guess that’s how the Kulikov OEL pairing didn’t get too exposed. He’s in the 83rd percentile.
Theodore is speedy (78th percentile). Heiskenan is really fast 93rd percentile.
Broberg is only in the 63rd percentile.
Rutta is a right-handed player on an expiring contract. $2.75m. He’s old, but surprisingly fast, 89th percentile.
Does Rutta having anything left in the tank? He’s been playing 19:43 per game on the Sharks. His fancy stats and PuckIQ’s are abysmal.
I liked Rutta in the day and wanted the Oilers to get him, but it looks like he’s done
Stan Bowman had a “Sit Down with Stauffer” on Oilers +. If was the same day as the media avail and the one-on-one Bowman did on Oilers Now so nothing earth shattering.
Didn’t mention Leon’s name but said “we’ve got great players” and “we’re going to keep them”.
Also talked about that type of contract being more than just a negotiation which is between the manager and the agent but its a collaboration between the player and management and he’s looking forward to developing a relationship with Leon and talking to him about his vision.
Sorry for the re-post, the first one wasn’t showing up, or at least it didn’t appear to.
I felt the same about The Oilers 2011 draft, I was happy with both RNH and Klefbom, great start to the draft.
Then absolutely baffled the Oilers took Musil over Jenner.
build down the middle, take BPA.
the Oilers completely disregarded the second round and beyond for years.
Stan Bowman had his “Sit Down With Stauffer” drop on Oilers + today.
Not much of note (this was done the same day as the media avail and that Bowman was on Stauff’s show).
He did say that we have good players “and we are going to keep them”.
He also talked about these type of deal being more than a negotiation- that part is with the agent and the money will take care of itself – but its a collaboration between the player and management and he looks forward to developing a relationship with Leon and collaborating on the vision.
Keep them indeed. Haven’t listened yet but apparently Bob tonight said he’s spoken with Liut and its “realistically” an 8 yr deal for Leon.
I haven’t listened to tonight’s Oilers’ Now yet either.
I would expect Leon would want 8 years but that should reduce the AAV. If Leon were to sign, say, a 5-year deal, he’d be extending going in to this 36-year old season and would not get the same type of AAV.
Anything over 4-5 years SHOULD start to bring the AAV down, hopefully close to $13MM (although the $13.25MM for Matthews makes it tough to see it lower).
I thought I read that the rumour is 8 year @ 13.8M per.
I’ve heard/read that and, personally, for an 8-year term, I think its too high. That makes sense for me on a 5-year term. Any term over 4-5 years SHOULD reduce the AAV but that won’t necessarily happen.
Hockey News Chicago writer slams “Oilers lie”…
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/chicago-blackhawks/latest-news/big-oilers-lie-edmonton-falsely-claims-new-gm-stan-bowman-was-architect-of-blackhawks-stanley-cup-teams
“Backed by his father, Scotty, and then-Blackhawks president John McDonough, Stan Bowman was elevated to GM”. HMMM makes you wonder what Jeff Jacksons relationship with Scotty is
I don’t really think any of it is particularly relevant but these are the relationships I’m aware of…
Jackson and Stan Bowman: DeBrincat contract.
Jackson played one game for Chicago, his last in the NHL in 1991-1992.
Scotty Bowman was the coach for Holland’s first two cups with Detroit.
Scotty is 90 years old.
A father always stands behind his son and will help him further his life any way he can. Scotty has many connections in hockey and is highly regarded in the hockey community. Hiring his son is good karma and will bring the Oilers only positive results.
An angry toned take down by some old fart reporter. There is nothing but his own speculation in that. Bowman may have had no part but he was AGM and in the org so a complete discredit without some kind of evidence is a bit harsh and seems less than a professional approach
Maybe he’s pals with Fischler
Sure maybe, but the optics are still horrible, especially since Bowman is not even considered to be the best choice based on resume alone.
The fact that this organization chose him is just bizarre to me.
Agreed. I don’t like his track record, but on the other hand the Wirtz’s are active owners. Sort of like how it was for Holland in Detroit
So it’s very hard to tell who is deciding what. I’m not a fan but I have said this about Chiarelli. From everything that was happening then, who was around the team, I don’t think fingers got mostly out of the pie until Holland came aboard
That article was so uninspiring. And why Jackson why?
You just didn’t do Bowman any favours except get him a large paycheck. It will be very, very difficult road for him, and moreso in Edmonton. One mistake, one mistake and hes sunk.
He’s basically set up for success .
That’s how I see it. A less engaged market would have been better for him. Unless he starts crushing things there will be a lot of criticism
Every time somebody here links to The Hockey News my first reaction is ‘I didn’t know they are still around’.
Heh heh
To me, THN is largely irrelevant now, and has been for a few years. I haven’t seen anything relevant and original from them for a long, long time. Ther stories from them I see in recent years are the same as other more timely outlets have been reporting, often more than 1 or 2 weeks before THN finally gets around to regurgitating thier plot lines in their own story. Sad – I used to love THN back in the day.
Oh sure. But an interesting and different path of vitriol for this hire: “How dare you credit Stan!”
Given the cap situation, what they need to do with RD is get that analytics dept scouring and giving the pro scouts leads. They need a competent under the radar type I think to offset Nurse’s cap hit
There must be someone. If Forsling can go from waivers to first pair on a championship team
Ethan Bear had a flash of success
Brock Faber signed for 8X$8.5 million in Minnesota.
21 years of age.
Another team locking in key young players identified early.
This is the team you should be hitching your horse instead of L.A. Guerin is ruthless he has 1 more year of pain then it’s contender time for years to come.
$13 million in cap space freed up season after next but still a lot of work to do as they have several D in their 30’s.
Mate, this is one of his 31 teams that he told us about.
Another D that LA overlooked.
No way that paying a player after one season of decent point production and ok fancy stats could go badly. Just look at Nurse…..
Faber was a Norris candidate as a rookie.
Faber is signed for a million less than Nurse.
The cap is significantly higher than when Nurse signed.
Nurse’s contract is buyout proof thanks to a NMC and huge annual signing bonuses…Faber has none.
Faber is a RD which is intrinsically more valuable than a LD.
Which contract would you bet on?
One of the worst in the league or a contract that has the potential to be the best in the league?
Faber is an interesting draft selection. I think Bader acknowledged that his model missed him.
He’s 6’1” and 200 lbs which isn’t big by NHL standards.
No math would have made him jump out during his draft year.
NHl Edge data does shed some light on him. His top speed is listed at the 96th percentile.
It seems everyone overlooked him including Minnesota who drafted Ryan O’Rourke ahead of him in the second round of the 2020 draft,
Good points on how it was an interesting pick and how the stats did not pop out, compared with the 1st rounders. I heard Faber usually declined playing PP during his development, even with his strong puck-moving skills, to play more ES & PK against the top players each game. The kid is a workhorse. Playing NCAA would have helped his development, compared with D prospects who stayed in the CHL.
Shane LaChance named co-captain for BU – great acknowledgement for a sophomore!
Teams need to build a core around an age cluster. A group of 4+ players who will play 5 or more years together.
Jeff Gorton and the Canadiens are doing a good job of this today. Trading for Alex Newhook and Kirby Dach who fall in the same age category as their high draft picks. Shame about injuries.
Meanwhile I don’t understand the Los Angeles Kings. They have aging legacy players, mid-career players who have plateaued, and an underwhelming group of up-and-comers, Byfield notwithstanding.
Byfield 21
Laferriere 22
Turcottte 23
Thomas 24
Kaliyev 23 ?
Anderson 25
Spence 23
Moverare 25
Clarke 21
All drafted by the Kings and expected to be on the roster in the fall with the exception of Kaliyev who may be traded.
Wow, high impact group right there
Just imagine if they had Durzi, Vilardi, Roy or Kupari to add to that youngin group?
Rob Blake is such a great GM for the Oilers and I mean that sincerely!
Vilardi scored 36 points for Winnipeg and was injured again.
Kupari scored ONE point in 28 games.
Matt Roy wanted a retirement contract and got one from Washington that ends when he is 35.
Durzi was moved for cap space and was blocking Spence and Clarke.
Durzi would seem to be a loss but not a critical one given other available options.
The rest are pablum.
Vilardi put up 4 points in 5 playoff games. He was healthy when it mattered.
Despite only playing 47 games Vilardi would have been 5th in goals on the Kings. If hes healthy next seasons theres a very real chance he has more goals than anyone on the kings.
Durzi was blocking a guy that ended up playing 50 games in the AHL…..
Life is too short to be spending it coming up with stuff like this.
The enthusiasm you have for LA reads like fanfiction.
Wow, if the core includes a turn 24 year old tweener (Turcotte) and turning 25 year AHLer (Thomas), a turnin 23 year old bottom sixer (Laferriere), etc……
Yikes!
If that’s their core they can expect to finish somewhere between Calgary and Utah in the standings. Not a bona fide top line player or top-pair D in the whole group.
Both Byfield and Mikey Anderson give lie to that claim.
Byfield has two complete seasons on the top line and Anderson has had several as #1LD.
Laferiere is also a top 6 forward.
In his latest evaluation Wheeler also had Clarke as one of the top 10 prospects in the league and expects him to land as as an elite offensive RD.
Remember when LA traded Faber? Faber could have anchored the 2nd line while Clarke meanders in his development.
Brandt Clarke just turned 21.
No meandering involved.
LOL, at 21, Evan Bouchard was “not an NHL player” and getting left behind by his draft cohort.
Narratives!
This is like Valimaki for Norris all over again.
Apples to apples.
Final junior season:
Bouchard – 45GP 16G 53P
Clarke – 31GP 23G 61P
AHL season;
Bouchard – 54GP 7G 36P
Clarke 50GP 10G 46P
Notice anything?
Want to add the age difference for context – Faber turning 21 with 3 months left in the regular season – Bouchard not turning 21 until the next season had started.
What are your thoughts on Bouchard?
We had a decent back and forth late last summer about him popping. He ended up a touch shy of the 100 point plateau but his shooting % landed right where I thought it would. Seems to me he has a runway to runaway status if he keeps up the progression.
I’d like to see the coaching staff find a role for him on the PK this year. Can’t be a full fledged #1D if you don’t take on the best of the best in all game states.
For the last 2 years you have been saying Clarke would be starting each season anchoring the 2nd line playing Norris quality D and the last 2 years he barely saw any NHL action.
Based on your expectations, he certainly is meandering.
Byfield stepped up a tad in the playoffs but I think that had more to do with his linemates than any unique play driving ability. L.A.’s model the past few seasons is grinding away the creativity of anyone under the age of 30 and that’s a longterm risk to any of these kids.
Byfield the one player on that list that could be a driver. I’m not sold on Clarke but will wait for more play before making a call here. Coaches and GMs are about one season away from waking up to the dexterity issues of smaller defensemen and L.A. is running out of time to shelter him on the backend before he’s left facing much Bigger forwards on a regular basis. They need to get him into the lineup this year.
I think the Oilers will miss McLeod more than many.
He really was a solid defensive center, notwithstanding some tough moments in the playoffs, that had shown some ability to take on tough minutes (2023 playoffs).
He showed some real ability to produce when playing up the lineup.
He was turning in to an excellent PK guy.
His speed was undeniable and it really added to “team speed” in the bottom six and his transition out, through and in, was real.
He was value for his apx $2MM cap hit even if he didn’t shoot enough, he didn’t consistently go to the hard areas, etc., etc.
At the same time, that cap hit was going to go up for 2025/26 and the ceiling of Savoie, combined with his 3-years on an ELC certainty, was one of those deals that had to be made.
I am hopeful we see a 47 points in 41 games start from Savoie in the AHL and he’s a real option come the strech drive.
Was are the chances of a Logan Stankoven type 20 year old season?
You have to give to get. McLeod with his speed will be in this league another 10 years never scoring more than 15. Savoie has a legit chance of hitting big are being a better trading chip than the perimeter McLeod. We also save money on the cap with hopefully getting a cost controlled scorer for years to come.
‘Proven’ for ‘potential’ is always a risk but teams that don’t take risks usually end up in the mushy middle as 1st round losers or mid range drafting teams.
I am a big fan of this kind of trade in this situation. They gave McLeod’s job to Henrique creating a surplus and bet the winnings on a big payday.
Even at 34 Henrique is hands down a better Centre then McLeod is. As soon as Henrique signed McLeod immediately phoned 2 Guys with a Truck and booked a open departure date.
McLeod lost his confidence in the playoffs. 3 5v5 points in 24 playoff games, 7th in forward TOI. He had a rough year with his brother and all, but doesn’t play a rounded game, and I think that changed minds
22/23 playoffs he was better. His stats were good, except GF% at 44.44. He’ll be 25 this season, he is who he is as a player. Nice kid, I hope the lesser lights of Buffalo suit him better, but they made the right bet on this one
I would prefer Mcleod to Henrique right now. And I think a lot of people will agree with me by the end of next year.
Henrique looked slow at times last year, and at 34, I don’t see him getting quicker.
I understand the trade. The Oilers dealt from a surplus to gain some cap space and improve their prospect pool, but they will miss Mcleod.
In isolation McLeod for Savoie is a hockey trade that’s very reasonable for the Oilers. But I’m a tad nervous at all the 30+ year olds being asked to play roughly 100 games next season with little to no cover in the event of injury. Doubly so when all of them sans Perry are on PK/shot block duty.
Is there “little to no cover” – right now, outside of the opening night lineup is Derek Ryan, Raphael Lavoie, James Hamblin, Lane Pederson, Matt Savoie, Noah Philp.
No team has a legit top 9 forward outside their healthy lineup – the Oilers have some solid cover.
Two guys clearly past the hill who fade hard at >8 min/night and a grand total of eight NHL games amongst the rookie class isn’t exactly cover if your 3C goes down for an extended period.
I’m going to say, Ryan & Perry won’t be seen on opening night. There’s too much cover. They will be mentoring in Bakersfield.
Henrique is a positional Centre who has hands. Have you ever worked with anyone and wondered how they got the job done so well yet quietly. Then there’s McLeod whose all flash but doesn’t really accomplish anything at the end of the day.
I used to work with a guy like that, appeared to work sooo hard but accomplished so very little doing it. Used to drive me nuts.
Holloway has something to do with it too.
Sure, maybe – of course the 10 year age difference has one being a more impactful player over the next decade than the other.
It was a great sign and trade.
I foresee an influx of youth into the lineup in the bottom six. Simply because of the veteran presence and the need to be cap compliant.
Savoie & Philp could be in the starting line up on opening night.
Janmark-Henrique-Savoie
Holloway-Philp-Brown
Could even switch Janmark & Holloway around .
I am In favor of Philp if he can make the squad. We need to fill out the bottom pair of pk forwards and he would be one.
I would instead run
Holloway – Henrique – Kane
Janmark – Philp – Brown
Savoie would play every game someone has a booboo to get in 50 or so games this year
Who knows what is going on with Kane? With or without him it’s solid.
They want Holloway to PK. Honestly the team looks prepared to move on from Kane.
I wish the Ahl had some better stats for us to see how well his pk is there. He hasn’t really done any time on the pk on the NHL. As for Kane I think keeping him for this season is what will make the forward core elite. Him on ltir would make it tricky to upgrade the rhd at the deadline however.
Barron would is a third pair option on a SCF contender – not top 6 – so count him out. Andersson will never be traded to EDM – scratch. Zub……we maybe – but would OTT give him up for less than a ridiculous overpay?. Addressing this issue will define the success or failure of the new mgmt team. Tough nut to crack.
People keep saying that about Barron, but every time I look at his work via Puck IQ I’m impressed. I don’t think this young man has hit his ceiling.
Barron isn’t even listed as a roster player for Montreal.
He is RFA.
https://puckpedia.com/team/montreal-canadiens
That’s the right pond to be fishing in. The one others are driving by.
Ok Ceci & Kemp for Barron. Then Oilers would have three RFA’s to sign, Holloway, Broberg & Barron.
Is there anything real to indicate that makes the current team better?
Of note, Barron was 6th for PK TOI/G for the Habs d-men.
Ceci played over 53 minutes of PK in the playoffs, often first unit against PP1 and was on the ice for ZERO goals against.
I think that IF they land Barron or similar – and that is a huge IF imo – the play is to move Kulak and keep Ceci as insurance .
Ekholm – Bouchard
Nurse – Barron
Broberg – Ceci
Something like that.
That does seem to balance the sides better but I’m still stuck on replacing Kulak (or Ceci) with Barron and that making the team better…….
Yup. There are really only two paths imo. The one that leads to the Barron aisle or the one where Kane is known to be on LTIR for the season and that one leads to the 30 something, overpaid guy on a team that won’t compete this year and whose team is willing to eat 30-50% in return for yet another high draft pick of prospect.
That’s it imo. There is no third path.
What has to be subtracted from the current roster in order to acquire any of these players is my question.
A late 1st rounder and a prospect isn’t going to get it done imo for any of the three other than Andersson and that still leaves the third party cost since I agree with you that Conroy will never trade him directly to Edmonton.
Neither Ottawa nor Montreal are interested in slowing their rebuild at this point so they would both want a roster player with similar value and that is where I find Edmonton lacking. Really only Broberg or Holloway would be of interest to either team and I am not certain they are enough given the shortage of RD in the league.
Agree. Unless JJ pulls another McLeod for Savoie deal that involves Ceci – all we can do is get under the cap by trading the guy who Broberg replaces and wait for the deadline. With Broberg ready the least risk option is trading Kulak and giving Broberg the 3 LHD slot. That’s not a downgrade and Kulak definitely has value. Trading Ceci makes our RHD perilously thin even if he is a third pair guy now.
So barring a miracle trade that swaps Nurse for an equivalent (but cheaper) RHD – trade Kulak and wait for the deadline to welcome Adam Larsson home.
Technically 3rd pair is top 6