One of the best draft choices this century was Kyle Brodziak in 2003. In the months that followed, I put up a post at hfboards asking if Brodziak was comparable (and possibly better than) first round pick Marc Pouliot. That was 20 years ago. We have our answer. Edmonton has another Brodziak in Noah Philp. He’ll be older when he arrives in the NHL and may not have as long a career, but he’ll fill a similar role and is giving the right vibes for a player of his type. The kicker on this story? The veterans are keeping him off the roster with their fine play. Nothing like competition for a roster spot.
WICHITA LINEMAN
I heard the song when I was just a kid and always loved it. The intro has a flutter to it that actual music experts will recognize but for me it’s always represented an immediate plunge into the drama of the song. Jimmy Webb wrote it, after seeing a man hanging off a telephone pole. Artist Glen Campbell, who had achieved success with another Webb song (By The Time I Get to Phoenix), requested another tune that included a city in the title. Webb wrote what might be the finest country song ever, although Angel from Montgomery remains my favourite. Webb wrote it and recorded it, sending the demo to producer Al De Lory for Campbell to record. As luck would have it, De Lory (who loved the song right away) related completely. He had an uncle who was a lineman in Kern County, California. Noah Philp plays his hockey currently in Kern County, California.
WHAT I DO
There was plenty of chatter yesterday on the blog about my flawed usage of numbers. Guilty as charged. There are folks who know the math far better than I do, and it must gall legit math folks that my rudimentary read of hockey’s math is read daily. I do use Natural Stat Trick and Puck IQ, they are respected outlets, and I have no plans to change my views.
For those who are searching for higher ground, I applaud you. However, hockey analytics, at least the publicly available analytics, are the basics (this is what I use) and a bunch of people running around with their own version of the Bible. We’re in Tower of Babel territory, and I’m just going to go with Puck IQ and Natural Stat Trick.
There are people who think Darnell Nurse can’t play at all. I disagree. I subscribe to what Puck IQ’s math says about him: Nurse has been in and around average for his career, and enjoyed a strong run in 2021-22 and 2022-23. He struggled last year and we’ll see about this one. Average against elites is good, not $9 million good but that contract came about due to Oilers management (twice) kicking the ball down the road. In the future, there may be math roads, that include quality of competition, that look at Nurse from a different vantage point that allows us more insight than is currently available. If you can do that, I’ll be listening.
I believe in Puck IQ. I believe in Natural Stat Trick, although things like high danger chances have wobble. I believe in Corsi and Corsi Rel and hold Dangerous Fenwick in high regard. I also enjoy actual Fenwick, he’s a good fellow despite being a Calgary Flames fan.
If you find my work interesting, I thank you. I am not looking for the missing chord, I know this blog will never produce a song as good as Wichita Lineman.
I write what interests me, I hope you enjoy it. I invite you to post your innovative ideas on the blog and I sincerely hope you find a kindred spirit.
I am not going to be cutting edge in analytics, and my thoughts derived from those the numbers and sources I use may clang like a hammer against your soul. However, I post these numbers because they are of interest to me, and help me understand the game more. I know I’m not alone because my articles are well read. I don’t apologize for any of what has been written and I fully admit my goal is to invite as many people into the conversation as possible.
I am not a man who brags all the time, but I will make this claim. Lowetide has been visited by many people over the years, and many of those people have gone on to find careers at high levels of hockey and media. None of them came here for my innovative usage of math. They came here because I can write a story plus they found individuals who helped them increase their knowledge and look at the numbers from different angles. That’s all I can offer you. I am not the Bible store, and I’m not looking for the New World Translation of the Hockey Scriptures.
I cannot tell you how many times over the last 20 years that people have reached out to suggest I change what I write. For me, it would be like writing righthanded (I’m a lefty, unless Woodguy is reading this, then I’m a righty). I can’t reach the immortal soul of hockey analytics because I own mathematical feet of clay. The good thing for me is that I’m not alone. Many folks enjoy learning the game at my pace. I’m one of the people who was part of the Lowetide blog and parlayed that into an enjoyable career. I’m forever grateful.
Analytics in hockey, the public analytics, hasn’t been able to move much forward in recent years. Part of it comes from the fact so many of the innovators have been hired by NHL teams. The analytics outer marker is behind closed doors, and no one know what goes on behind closed doors. The public hockey analytics? Everyone has their Bible, and like the world in all endeavors we are all talking past each other. I sincerely hope you find your people, and they are both open to your ideas and push you to make your math model better.
You can tell me all day that my math is borrowed, but I know that and make it publicly known daily. If you’re mad at me because I haven’t adopted your model, then maybe you have to explain it more clearly. Know your audience. Be Bill James. Not Bill James now, the guy who is mad at catchers for having one knee down, be Bill James in the 1980’s. Take big ideas and make them easy for everyman. That’s a tough one when you’re searching for the truth, though. I will give you that much.
When your model reaches the credibility level of Puck IQ, I may well adopt it and trumpet your accomplishments. I do think the outer marker for public analytics is Puck IQ. Thanks for reading the blog, no matter why. I enjoy our interactions and am always glad you visit.
On the Lowdown today, we’ll talk about last night’s Oilers game beginning at noon on Sports 1440. Guests include Steve Lansky, Tyler Yaremchuk and Declan Krueger will have his Declanations. I’m at Lowetide on twitter, in the comments section here and on the Sports 1440 text line at 1.833.401.1440 directly. We can be heard at sports1440.ca; iHeartRadio; Radioplayer Canada, we tweet out the show after it’s done and you can catch us on Apple and Spotify.
New for The Athletic: What we’ve learned about the Edmonton Oilers in week 1 of the NHL season
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5848810/2024/10/18/edmonton-oilers-flyers-predators-standings/
Prospectigan!
Nine is not the loneliest number that you’ll ever do, but it is the number of NAmateurs with work to do.
Berry continues to search for the elusive crooked number, said search made more difficult by Muskegon’s popgun offense (15 GF in 7 GP, only two teams in 16-team USHL with lower GF/G).
Mazura is off to a fine start with 4 points in 4 GP, and is listed as St. Lawrence’s 1C.
While Copponi (BU’s 2C) has yet to find the scoresheet, Lachance (1LW) has no such problem with 1+3 in two GP.
Fischer has apples in both GP thus far.
The London and Flint duos round out the sched (assuming Clattenburg returns tonight).
Flint (Day, Clattenburg) @ 5 p.m.
London (O’Reilly, Nicholl @ 5 p.m.
Boston University (Lachance, Copponi) @ 5 p.m.
Notre Dame (Fischer) @ 5 p.m.
St. Lawrence (Mazura) @ 5 p.m.
Muskegon (Berry) @ 5 p.m.
All times are the same time and are also Hoosier time.
I really enjoy LTs writing, AND enjoy the conversations around the stats. I love hearing what JP has to say, and Scungys challenging of all things provokes thought. Tarkus’ puns and updates (its probably not actually your picture, but in my mind it is). Sides humour and sarcastic bite. And more.
I love the different things everone contributes in this blog. I mostly come to eavesdrop on the conversation than anything.
Now that we have some hindsight and a small sample size, who besides godot would have signed Broberg to a 3 million x 2 year contract, and taken a pass on Arvidsson?
I was saying for most of the off-season that one of the main keys to this team winning the Stanley Cup is Darnell Nurse reverting back to his historical norms and prior established level of play.
Of course, there is no argument in favor of him being value for his $9.25MM – sure, maybe, if he could replicated the 2021 56-game season as his norm but that’s not a reasonable projection.
At the same time, Nurse has a LONG history of being much better than he’s been over the last couple of season. Its interesting and notable that his game seems to have fallen off around the time he got some help on the left side with the Ekholm acquisition.
Prior thereto, Nurse was the locked 1D in this team for years. He did share that with Klef for a while but, since Klef went away, Nurse was THE MAN and played some of the toughest minutes in the league and did well, even without McDavid on the ice.
One would think that he could be a huge anchor to a strong second pairing given his history as the anchor of a first paring.
The last two games have been strong for Nurse. Yes, he will make mistakes – sure, maybe he needed to move the puck quicker and not get it slashed off his stick leading to a goal against. Many will remember that one play and refuse to acknowledge the15-20 positive plays he made through the game.
The Nurse we saw over the last two games is a solid $7.5MM d-man and that player can help this team win Stanley as the 2LD.
Stats are best represented in blue and red bubbles, I miss the bubbles.
Speaking of which, where’s rickibear lately? I need to know whether Eric Gryba or Mark Fayne was the most underrated Oiler of all time.
Who knows, maybe Josh Brown is epic at blocking the box.
I don’t know Mr The Bear but I often enjoyed the chaos his strong opinions would create in the comments. Unfortunately, I believe he passed away due to cancer a few years ago. That said, glad to see the concept of the Ricki box lives on.
Unfortunately, I doubt Josh Brown scores well by that metric either.
Looking forward to watching Philp play a couple of game this weekend. He was very good in his first game of the year a week ago.
Derek Ryan has been OK but he’s had a tough go on the PK and there is every chance that Philp could/will make the team better over Ryan. Of course, that’s not happening now but, while Ryan is playing OK, he’s not quite making the positive impact that Corey Perry is – what a start to his season!
Podz has been good. But I think Philp would have a more positive affect on the team, being an RHC. I would suggest send Podkolzin down and bring Philp up.
Leon- McDavid-Hyman
Skinner-Henrique-Brown
Nuge-Philp-Arvidsson
Janmark-Ryan-Perry
Personally, while I am amazed at the math on here and have been for 20 years, I generally skip over the minutiae to the precis to understand what the point was. I am much more a narrative man, so I appreciate the stories, the links between player, team and place, and frankly I would not read this blog any longer if that were missing. It’s the human connection that has me here everyday for the last 2 decades.
Building off W’s comment below, I think the Oilers should cut down on the PP1s playing time right now, considering how little success they are having, as well as considering the 2nd PP has scored twice already (not officially, but close enough). Since the top unit is together at evens anyway, why not limit the time they are playing on the PP, and give the secondary guys the opportunity to foil the preparation the other team has made to counter the PP1 only?
I think there is enough in the PP ability of Arvidsson, Skinner, Perry, Nurse and Ekholm to justify time invested.
Never change what you are doing LT! You and Stauffer have been my daily Oilers news for the past 20+ years. You both to Oil Country are like my two fav Hip songs, “Long Time Running” and “Ahead by a Century”! Keep on rocking LT!!!
Oilers looked good last night. I thought the new additions played well. The Oilers will need that depth when guys like Nuge are quiet. I am concerned about the defence but let’s see how this new group plays out. Nurse played better last night after some concerning play last game where he was dumping the puck into his partner’s corner for a 50/50 battle, yikes. Pickard looked great last night.
Their defensive play seems to be coming around.
Which leads to more offense.
And… Better goaltending.
We should all leave perfection to God. That being said, The Wichita Lineman is as close to that in its simplicity and complexity that you may find in music, imho.
Great framing of the discussion of numbers. In my day job, I get to teach high school math and have observed that rarely is the issue just about calculations but is just as much about how we frame numbers and interpret data- skills that are hard to teach and take patience to think through. We appreciate the work you do with the data that you have, LT!
Never change LT. We have the very scary thing called ‘Freedom’. The freedom to not read this blog. The freedom to start your own. The freedom to do most things.
Seriously people, if you have axes to grind, find somewhere else.
Dear Lowetide:
Thoroughly fed up at the climax of last season’s playoffs, have not watched anything at all until the final 3 and a half minutes of last night’s game.
From what this luddite, non-math(because I’m seeking other things sees) – the Oilers look fantastic.
Perhaps they’re not ready for the playoffs – in October.
But from what I saw, they’re playing top level hockey. The kind the other team needs to play their best against.
No one knows what next year’s playoffs will bring, but one thing is 100% clear to me – this team kicks like no Oilers team since the Pronger playoff team except it’s probably far more skilled. With skill being a valuable commodity in sports.
See y’all in 2025.
Funny… and speaking of stats, the Oilers were only credited with two hits after the second period. Clearly not what I saw on the ice.
LT the blog is acting up today. It should say Mathtide – Stats Talk on the Ole Ron Fisher.
I’m 100% taking the piss.
Couldn’t watch the game last night but it seems like the big boys are still stuck in the mud. Fair?
Top line looked much better last night. Connor was flying at times and they had a dominant shift which culminated with the 3 2 goal. Nice but of pushback at a pivotal moment.
Draisaitl was playing great, often the 1st forward back, carrying the puck, making passes no one should be blessed to make. Was nice to see the top line factor in positively and not take any dumb penalties.
LT, I’ve said it before, and will say it again… I have learned so much here over the years. I remember being terrified by the comments sections some decade plus ago. Just so much I was clearly never going to understand. Now, I can understand your numbers, and I find myself scanning them to see if they match the eye test. Often they do and there’s some days I just can’t see what the numbers say. That’s about as far as I will take it, and yes, I come for the story, every damn day.
Lastly, I think Pickard should make the ‘P’ a little larger on his mask.
so much rambling. Where are the stats from yesterdays game?
Well aren’t you rude.
Knock yourself out: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20242025&game=20069
Just scroll down, read what you want.
If you’ve invited yourself in for dinner, don’t complain about the hosts cooking. (Actually even if you were invited – still don’t complain!)
I’d be interested to see the zone time stats they throw out sometimes on the SN broadcasts over longer samples. I think this is what Corsi originally was trying to explain but just didn’t have the data.
With zone time stats you could start to look at things like GF/GA or SF/SA per minute of zone time.
While I’m wishing for new stats I’d also like to see possession change stats (which would be baked into zone time). How often do players turn pucks over or win 50/50 pucks? Maybe the NHL teams are already looking at this stuff.
NHL.com has released player tracking for goals, which would imply they have player tracking for the whole game monitoring player movement.
The data is scrapeable. There is another renaissance on the horizon once hockey-mad coders start parsing out the movements into game states and areas of interest.
The NHL.com has team data now, including zone time.
(https://edge.nhl.com/en/team/20232024-regular-EDM)
The Oilers were 93rd percentile (I guess 3rd in the league) in even strength Ozone time last season.
That matches quite nicely with their 3rd place ranking in even strength CF%.
Someone with more time than I could run a correlation of the two numbers across the league to see how well the match (surely not quite as well as the above suggests).
This made me chuckle because it perfectly captures how I’ve felt about the fancy stats world over the last half decade or so.
LT, quite a bit is written in admiration of your prose but after a decade of reading, what keeps catching me off-guard is your habit of giving voice to one of my gut feelings – and doing so with concision and wit!
I feel like I ruffled some feathers yesterday so here is my put up or shut up. I apologise for my tone yesterday. Unfortunately I had to go to bed because I worked early so I couldn’t continue the discussion.
As an example I am using Ty Embersons expected goal percentage for this year.
My issue with small sample size:
Emberson has suited up for 4 games this year with the following xGF%:
43.8
89.2
15.5
67.8
Sample size: 4
Mean average: 54.1
Standard deviation: 27.46
95% confidence interval: 54.075 +/- 26.91
So from a statistics standpoint, next game 19 out of 20 times we can expect his xGF% to be between 27.2 and 81.0. Which doesn’t really tell us anything. Statistically he is expected to either play great or terrible.
95 percent confidence intervals is probably to accurate for hockey so let’s use a 50 percent confidence interval to tighten that range up.
50 percent confidence interval: 54.075 +/- 9.26
So it is a coin flip if his xGF% is going to be between 44.8 and 63.3 percent or outside that range from a statistical point of view.
The only conclusion I can draw from these numbers is that he might have a good game or he might have a bad game. But you don’t need stats to tell you that.
His corsi percentage is a bit tighter so that will give us some better results:
CF%
51.4
86.8
40.0
46.9
Sample size: 4
Standard deviation: 18.09
CF% average: 56.275
95% confidence interval: 38.6-74.0 CF%
50% confidence interval: 50.18-62.37 CF%
So there is a 50 percent chance he has a good game and a 50 percent chance he has a poor game or a freaking incredible game.
This is what I mean when I say small sample size statistics are meaningless. They have no predictive power and more often than not will mislead you.
First off, excellent summary of the first batch of numbers.
To me, it’s all about how you frame these statistics. I look at the numbers you posted and I don’t conclude they are meaningless, or try to predict anything. It simply tells you the player has been inconsistent, and shown no hint of that ending. Which is perfectly reasonable for a 30 NHL game player.
Statistics don’t HAVE to be predictive, in hockey, they can help you just process what you just saw. But if you threw numbers up for some other players (Ekholm?) i’d be surprised if they weren’t both tighter and displaying a trend (improvement?). So you could infer (a step down from prediction) that he is going in the right direction. Not much, but it’s something.
It seems from the discussion yesterday you are hung up on, and assuming other posters/blog author are using statistics solely for, prediction. But that is only part of the eventual utility.
I think i disagree with this. Generally the stats we value are based on predictive of wins. Shots, Corsi, Fenwick, Expected Goals, Dangerous Fenwick. I feel they are framed in a hypothetical future where the game is played again. That’s why when they lose bit have a 70%xGF, I feel better about it because in a hypothetical future where the game is played again they are likely to win.
And at the end of the day the only statistics that matters in hockey is how many wins you get.
And for all that, people still tune into the news when the early returns on exit polls get reported.
— It’s of course understandable that statistics isn’t widely understood and or used incorrectly
— Fuges breakdown is traditional text book stats. We never see CI or stnd deviation or R-squares of “hockey analytics” This is a challenge for those who have used stats in school or work.
— So yeah it is “frustrating” for those that have an education or have learned stats or use it in their work (I’m a finance guy: this is how we use stats) when missaplied “stats” are used as narratives and not understood
— I thought yesterday’s discussion was interesting, and I don’t believe anyone was trying to call anyone out or make fun of them or being “critical”
— It is a great blog and as long as people stay in their lane or recognize their strengths and weaknesses (or play a heel to antagonize!) it’s a great spot to hear opinions on the Oil and other cool stuff music food jokes etc.
— It’s just hockey: owned by a billionaire, played by millionaires, broadcasted by the wealthiest corporations all for profit. Fans pay a lot to see and engage in this sport
— Lowetide is “free”. And it’s awesome for all us Oiler engaged folks.
PAYPALS anyone as a reminder…
You put a lot of effort into meaningless stats. I bet you’re fun at parties.
Im still pissed about Blues poaching Broberg.
I’m pissed at Skinny and Arvi sitting on the bench during power plays.
I don’t that is the way to build team unity.
40 games from now this is going to be an even bigger issue. Kid is taking off in St. Louis…
He tends to get broken easy. So, we’ll see.
I said at the time, acknowledging it was hyperbole, that it felt like the Oilers window shrunk from 10 years to 2 years with those offer sheets. I feel like the perpetually signing UFA model can only sustain so long. Hope I’m wrong.
On the contrary – it means that not only can your window be wider – rebuilds are wholly unnecessary if you know what you’re doing.
The problem is a combination that many don’t know what they’re doing, and they actually like the lack of pressure and urgency that comes from a rebuild. It allows the less competent to hide behind a process and keep jobs they shouldn’t have.
— The “window” is prime McDrai…
— Crosby Malkin have aged out of their window. One day that’s us…That’s how it works in professional team sport. Always.
Tampa kept it going remarkably well with little to no internal development.
They even kinda pioneered a new model with how they acquired Blake Coleman and Brandon Hagel. Didn’t work quite as well with Tanner Jeannot, though…
No one cares about Peter Broganp
Well that isn’t true. The Oilers don’t get to walk on the offer sheets just because they are rare. For instance, the team put itself in a uniquely dangerous situation (two players available for OS). AND all they had to do with Broberg is play the man. He wasn’t asking for $20 million a year, he was saying he would like to play in the NHL.
The Oilers were convinced of vincent Desharnais, who is also gone. I don’t think the story has been written, but said a year ago (many times, although our friend godot lead the league) that the Oilers should have been playing him.
Edmonton management owns this. Zero chance fans are wrong on this issue.
I’m pissed at Stecher’s cyst.