Going (rookie) Camping

by Lowetide

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Truculence

Looking forward to hearing more about Nathaniel Day’s training camp and development this year

rev.hans

We lived in paradise (my father believed, and he was right), plus as a logger he was often without a paycheque in the summer (fire season) and winter (snow). His idea of vacation was fishing for salmon. I didn’t like fishing, but we had beaches and rivers nearby and I loved swimming and bicycling so staycation were alright by me. The benefit of living in paradise is that all the relatives wanted to make our part of the world the destination for their 1960s road trips (monster station wagons filled to bursting with my aunts, uncles, and their huge quantities of cousins for me). Late nights! Family picnics at Miracle Beach! Family gatherings at Oma and Opa’s! Tag and hide & seek and all the running around games into the night!
My own kids had hardly any cousins. But, still living in paradise, they were happy with endless swimming and bicycling and camping.

maudite

Testing

maudite

Wierd…though i was auto banned to wait for approval status.

Hope all is well LT. Still appreciate your work just been through a lot of hard past few years now and haven’t had mental free space to try to sort out why i seemed to be auto rejected lol.

OriginalPouzar

Savoie and Howard should dominate based on pedigree.

Hutson should dominate if he really does have a chance at being an NHL player given his age.

Looking forward to seeing Samanski, Marjala and, for younger rookies, Clattenburg.

cowboy bill

I guess we’ll find out how good some of these guys really are against other rookies heading into NHL training camp.

OriginalPouzar

To be honest, for Savoie, Howard and Hutson (different category as the first two but his age matters), standing out and being productive won’t mean much – that’s the expectation for them at this stage.

A poor set of games would mean more the other way – in my opinion.

Reja

A 2 goal game by Howard would be nice as I see a lot of PP by both teams as Calgary no-name players will try to goon Howard and Savoie. I’m glad we have Clattenburg once the tomfoolery starts.

OriginalPouzar

I also forgot, Copponi – I’ve got a feeling about this kid and that he’ll transition from an AHL deal to NHL ELC during the course of the season.

Fibonacci

Frank Seravalli
@frank_seravalli

Sources say Wild superstar Kirill Kaprizov’s camp turned down an extension offer believed to be 8-years, $128 million in a meeting on Tuesday in Minnesota that would have made him the highest-paid player in NHL history in both AAV ($16 million) and total dollars.

LMHF#1

100 points precisely once.

Doesn’t play full seasons.

Moronic on both sides.

Boil-in-the-Oil

He seems to think that because he chose to wear #97 on his jersey, that he is entitled to McDavid money… hahaha. He’s pretty good at hockey, but he is so very far from the talent level of Connor… and let’s not forget he’s a winger! This whole story is remarkable, I said it before… the new higher cap will result in greed becoming the order of the day (at least for this player).

OriginalPouzar

What can he possibly want.

Is it reasonably possible that McDavid signs a contract for next year that is less that what Kaprizov signs for for next year (even with a shorter term and another big deal to come.

Scungilli Slushy

It’s greed. Parise and Suter buyouts are only 1.6M now. This is where movement clauses hurt teams thus the league. I’d send him packing if possible, but there is also the need for Guerin to put bums in seats, although their attendance looks pretty strong even pre Kaprizov

Traveller

What would you offer up to the players to give up the right to negotiate for NMC or NTC clauses into their contracts for years during UFA seasons. The terms and conditions for these clauses were agreed to through an arms length negotiation between 2 parties in balance with all the other terms and conditions of the CBA.

Scungilli Slushy

Me, not much. But there is probably some accommodation the players are interested in, I don’t know. I don’t think that they necessarily have to eliminate trade clauses, but just like they have limited term and some detrimental contract aspects before, they could change how that works and give teams more options to be their best. Such as limiting them to the earlier part of contracts etc., so there isn’t a leverage imbalance at the end, which I think there is in some cases as it is

Despite that one could argue those contract changes weren’t good for the players, it seems the league has thrived since, and that has been a benefit to the player’s contract values. The better the league operates, the more fairly, the better for all involved in the long run

I fully believe at the end of the day, whoever signs the checks calls the shots. Since we first started walking up right. The league can and has imposed things they see as important enough on the players, it’s just a matter of how painful that has to be. The league doesn’t necessarily have to give something to make a change, which I don’t see as a big one. The big one is revenue sharing, contracts are about money

They are working together well at the moment, which is the best way, but the league could force it’s hand if it wanted to. No paychecks is much harder on most players (and other people in the org) than most teams. The players put on the performance (which sport is), I think that they should be treated fairly and well which they have been for a long time, but if you look at who is taking on the most risk and laying out significant assets, it’s the teams. That warrants some consideration for me

Traveller

For 25/26 99 players in the NHL have No Movement Clauses plus an additional 44 have full no trade clauses but maybe could be sent to the minors. You might not see it as a big one, but the actions of the players says pretty much everyone who has the bargaining power negotiates to get it into their contract. The individual owners or their GMs can each negotiate to not give a player an NMC to any player, yet they all seem to give it up to the most top end players who want it.

It seems very unlikely that the NHLPA would give it up easily at all and I don’t think the owners would think its an issue to go to war on. As long as their revenue keeps rising like it generally has since they struck the first CBA, except for the 2020-2022 problem, the two parties will continue to what they think is best for each of them and not be too concerned that this issue annoys some fans. I mean they just agreed to new cap, LTIR and other rules that are going to restrict GM’s ability to make moves not improve it.

Last edited 2 hours ago by Traveller
Scungilli Slushy

Yes it might be a big deal for the top players who have the leverage to ask for it. Thankfully Bowman has the brass to ask guys if they would waive. It’s not a problem for truly elite guys because they rarely get traded, but most players aren’t that. You can make them feel unwelcome enough but that gets ugly

Traveller

Nurse and the Oilers deny he was asked. Arvidsson wanted out before he was asked. I am not aware of direct confirmation from either Henrique the Oilers that he was asked though he is a UFA at the end of the season, so that is not an atypical question to ask since Henrique is currently eligible for an extension as well.

Clearly Treliving asked Marner and he said no. I doubt anyone of knows at all if and how often GM’s talk to their players about waiving their NMsC and that would include whether Holland asked anyone to waive. And it wasn’t Holland who ran amok this past year giving Skinner, Henrique, Arvidson and Janmark no trade clauses, that was Jeff Jackson.

Fibonacci

It’s likely he is forcing his way out of Minnesota.

If Guerin can’t sign him…he has to trade him and with a NMC Kaprisov gets to choose his destination.

Fibonacci

Significant speculation that Kaprisov wants to play in a major market like NY, Toronto or Los Angeles.

David

Montreal is missing a elite offensive producer (unless Demidov will be that)

Fibonacci

Interesting you mention him.

The Athletic just published its pre-season Calder Trophy projections with Demidov at the top.

Demidov broke the all-time KHL under-20 scoring record by notching 49 points in 65 games last season, leapfrogging ahead of Kirill Kaprizov, Matvei Michkov and Evgeny Kuznetsov, among others.

The most impressive part of that record-setting feat is that he accomplished it while averaging less than 14 minutes of ice time per game. Demidov is the most purely skilled forward in this Calder class, and it’s not particularly close.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6598442/2025/09/10/nhl-calder-trophy-2025-buium-demidov/

rev.hans

I watched him closely in that very brief peak at the end of the Habs’ season. He was good. They were a very fun team to watch last year. I’m expecting them to be an even bigger handful this season.

ps. They seemed to have Florida’s number last year. I didn’t watch those games closely enough to see why. Not a big team. But fast, and persistent.

cowboy bill

Send him back to Russia, see how much they want to pay him.

godot10

Clear sign that he wants to play in an Russian expat city.

Fibonacci

Very possible.

With Panarin’s contract expiring, the Rangers could make room.

Bar_Qu

Good news for all the teams who don’t sign him for that overpriced contract.

hunter1909

Maybe they get a rookie goalie and improve the team markedly all by that one single action.

Reja

The Oilers win back-to-back Cups if they add a Goaltender with heart in him.

Last edited 4 hours ago by Reja
Darth Tu

Outside of the Howards/Savoies/Jonssons/Akeys of the list I’m pretty intrigued by Samanski and Marjala. I look forward to seeing what they bring to the table.

rev.hans

I’m most interested in the goalie, Jonsson. But a game or two tells me next to nothing.

Scungilli Slushy

We all have our specific interests with the team, I lost interest in the rookies over the years. At least since they were drafting down the order. Partly because they were not drafting players I liked that much, and so few made any impact for the big club. Too many of the first round picks they retained did zippo ding ding, or they managed to lose them

But interest is returning. I like who they are rolling the dice on more. Kids that have enough attributes that I can see a realistic path for them to make the show and help the team more than just taking a few shifts for a limited number of games, and doesn’t involve too many things to fall right for them. Like that they are one of the outliers that can over come cement boots and no NHL shot, or being 30 pounds light for the NHL

However I do wonder about the number of smaller defensemen they seem interested in. I would love to have a chance to ask Stan about that, what they are thinking

Scungilli Slushy

I think you’re right. I also think there is a level of height/weight that ‘most’ players need to meet to be successful and help the team all the way down the line. I suppose I get the feeling they are moving toward chasing outliers again, which rarely works out

Reja

Regula eats Emberson and Stechers lunch this fall in my living room scouting report.

Scungilli Slushy

A bittersweet time of year for me. Can’t wait for hockey, don’t like winter, not in a position to be a snowbird. First world problems, I know

While I’m happy that Gary didn’t ‘Oiler’ the Oilers for once with his investigation into Kane and the cap, I don’t like that they were looked at and Florida wasn’t as far as I know. Hart from PP said the Oilers were cap compliant even with Kane, the Panthers 8M over

That being enabled because of PEDs and a suspension. They should have been getting tested and scrutinized for cap circumvention if any team was going to be looked at as far as I’m concerned

Oddspell

I will say the PED thing really bothers me.

I looked it up and a 20 game suspension is in line with precedent, but having that player pop for PEDs between back to back cup wins (against us) really sours my opinion of those teams. Then I think about all the players who suddenly took off in Florida can I can’t help but be suspicious as hell.

Will be interesting if any of Florida’s big guns have drop off seasons during an Olympic year.

Moonlight

If Florida makes it’s fourth straight Cup Final while showing no fatigue, something is definitely amiss. Anyone else find it odd that they just got stronger after playing 300 some games in three years, no exhaustion?

Bar_Qu

Being given cap relief for a PED suspension feels unfair. Having said that, Zito played inside the rules as written, and made his team better.
In a lot of ways the final last year was determined by the better team management, as much as the quality of the players. I can never cheer for FLA, but I do admire the deftness of their GM.

Traveller

Sure Zito followed the rules, but being in a position to have $95 million salary for 20 players in the playoffs had quite a bit of luck. Having Tkachuk get injured at the Four Nations Cup, miss every game to the end of the season, and show up on day one of the playoffs is not astute management it is mostly luck. Nor is having a top line defenseman making $7.5 million come off the cap due to a PED suspension from right after the deadline until game 2 or 3 of the playoffs.

To think Bowman wouldn’t understand or be able to manage that occurrence misses the fact that he himself was able to take advantage of it when Patrick Kane went down the week before the deadline in 2015 with shoulder surgery and returned for game 1 of the Stanley Cup finals. This allowed him to add Kimmo Timonen and Vermette at the deadline and have a squad over the cap in the playoffs.

The timing of the surgery and recovery for Kucherov in Tampa was mostly luck as well. If not for the pandemic, with a full season, Kucherov likely would have had his surgery earlier and recovered well before the playoffs of a full schedule.

If a player is not injured at all, there is no opportunity be no chance to use LTIR to be over the cap in the playoffs. The timing of injuries to be allowed to use it in this manner is mostly luck.

Bar_Qu

I think you are mistaking Zito’s actions as only dependent on luck, instead of maximizing his situation to benefit the team. He’s been signing bottom roster players for minimal dollars, or letting them walk; the org ensured they have had at least 5 or 6 picks at the last number of years, giving him trade options; and he has pulled off trades no one else thought possible (Marchand). Yeah, he’d want all his players healthy & on the roster, but the reality is Fla was the *best* team in the playoffs by a lot last year, and it is not just on the players and coaches to achieve that.
You make your own luck, as they say and I think Zito has proven it year over year.

Traveller

I never said it was only luck, I said mostly luck, in terms of being able to spend over the camp, but both Brad Marchand had full control of the situation and Marchand said that Florida is the only team they would be traded to, and Zito was the only high ending cup contending team that had the cap space to fit both of them in which was only because of the LTIR space from Tkachuk, which is nothing he could plan for. Margins are thin in the NHL and having a 10% cap advantage against your opponents is huge.

I give credit for Zito having a good enough team that it was attractive enough to Marchand and Seth Jones to waive their NMC’s. But he effectively traded a 2028 first rounder to get him (a conditional second that changed to a first based on their success). Lots of contending teams have their 2028 first rounder. For Seth he gave up a 2026 first round pick. Again lots of teams had their 2026 first round pick prior to the deadline including Edmonton who traded theirs to San Jose 4 days after the Jones trade.

Has Bill Zito done better than Holland/Jackson/Bowman over the last 4 seasons. Sure and he has the cups to prove it. But 4 consecutive seasons getting past the first round 3 trips to the the Conference Finals and 2 trips to the Stanley Cup Finals losing in 7 and 6 games is not the work of some GM dimwits. They haven’t done a great job, as that is probably only reserved for Cup champions, but it has been on balance pretty good.

Traveller

Even it terms of getting Tkachuk in the first place it wasn’t a complete master class by Zito. Tkachuk gave Treliving a list of only 6 teams he would extend with if traded to in 2022: Florida, Tampa, Colorado, Las Vegas, Carolina and St. Louis (the city where he grew up). Kudos to Zito for outbidding these few other teams, though we don’t know what any of them were willing to offer Calgary if anything. And that he could sign Tkachuk for $1 million less than what the Flames offered Tkachuk was a tax advantage that Bill Zito didn’t create. Treliving was bargaining from a position of weakness that was not created by Bill Zito.

Scungilli Slushy

If you want to talk about lucky, Hubby having a crazy outlier season, just before a truculent that Zito would love to have became available, is pretty lucky

rev.hans

That I do not understand: the player is suspended, not hurt. In what world is that a “long term injury?”
I am glad the CBA seems to have sewn up the over-cap playoffs strategy. But LTIR for suspension?
Also: What protocol, if any, does the NHL have for testing for PEDs? Until there is testing (ie. before every round of the playoffs?) we can speculate and complain till forever and it has no consequence.

Moonlight

I remember the day that we chose Holland over him. I didn’t realize then how dire the consequences of that decision would be.

Scungilli Slushy

I think under Bowman the Oilers are back to playing chess instead of crokinole

Reja

As far as life experiences I would have to be pretty naive to think only 1 Panther player was doing the PED’s This player a older vet had no influence on his teammates whom he spent twice as much time with than his own wife.

Scungilli Slushy

Nate Schmidt had been previously suspended for PEDs. The chances are pretty slim there isn’t more going on, especially given the league’s apathy about so many things for whatever reasons

Reja

Colin Campbell Son works for the Panthers. Sometimes the most obvious conclusion is staring right at you.

Scungilli Slushy

For sure. How Ekblad didn’t count on the cap while suspended is ridiculous. Imagine if it was the Oilers. Would have counted triple

Reja

The league was on Sather ass continuously changing the rules like the 4 on 4 for example. Sather always had come-back that that was a deterrence to the cheaters. I still think Bowman will win multiple Cups even with Holland taking all the kids piggy bank money while they were sleeping.

Traveller

Both the length of the suspension and the cap implications with Ekblad were dealt with exactly in accordance with the CBA. About the only wiggle room available for the NHL to impact the outcome for cap implications for this suspension is how long after the positive result did they hold and hearing and issue the suspension. If they had issued the suspension before the trade deadline, Florida would have had even more cap room to play with. But if Florida knew before the suspension was likely coming after the deadline , it gave them the comfort of knowing they could use all of Tkachuk’s cap room, because even if Tkachuk came back earlier, they still had Ekblad’s cap room.

Also the last 10 days of a Player’s suspension for PED on a first offense the player gets paid 60% of their daily salary. Because his suspension ended 10 days after the end of the season, he did not get for those days. However, even if he got paid for a few of them, it would not have changed Florida’s cap position.

Chelios is a Dinosaur

Go watch game 5 and 6. Was this systems? One team wanting it more than the other? Smarts? Skill?

No. All of a sudden the Panthers were capable of beating Edmonton to every puck, every time.

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