Pick Up The Pieces

A year ago around this time, the TSN trade board had two Oilers as possible exit options (Cam Talbot No. 8, Jesse Puljujarvi No. 34) along with three completed deals (the trifecta: trading Chris Wideman, acquiring Brandon Manning and Alex Petrovic). Vancouver’s Sam Gagner was on the list at No. 44, he would eventually find his way back to Edmonton.

This year’s list is just 20 deep, but there’s more interest among Oilers fans than a year ago. Why? Edmonton could be buyers. Hallelujah! Amen.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here. 

  • New Lowetide: ‘Connor McDavid: Whatever It Takes’ works as breaking news, drama and personality profile
  • New Lowetide: Oilers prospects Evan Bouchard and Tyler Benson deliver best minor league performances in 20 years
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Hey, Sparky, can you do that?’: How the Oilers’ AHL video coach got his start as the Islanders’ mascot.
  • Eric Duhatschek: He’s special’: The people who know him best tell the story of how Leon Draisaitl took the NHL by storm
  • Pierre Lebrun: Where all 31 teams stand one month before the trade deadline
  • Lowetide: What do Connor McDavid’s best lines tell us about his optimal linemates?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: I was an AHL coach for a day: Here’s what I learned
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman and Jonathan Willis: Oilers player poll: From the serious to the silly, the players weigh in on best dressed, most superstitious and more
  • Thomas Drance: Inside how ‘Okanagan boy’ Ken Holland helped bring back the Penticton Young Stars tournament
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers minor-league defenceman Brandon Manning suspended five games for racial slur
  • Jonathan Willis: An updated list of which Oilers are most likely to be traded in 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto gives Oilers a midseason spark, one of the best in team history
  • Lowetide: With the Oilers’ minor-league goaltending not good enough, Ilya Konovalov might be the answer
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Josh Archibald, Riley Sheahan show the upward trend of Ken Holland’s offseason moves for the Oilers
  • Lowetide: Post-Christmas performance spike has Evan Bouchard pushing for an NHL job with the Oilers
  • Lowetide:  Central Scouting’s midseason list offers Oilers some strong draft options
  • Jonathan Willis: The Oilers’ road forward — and perhaps to a Stanley Cup — requires trusting the kids on defence
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Deciding what to do with Darnell Nurse, Mike Smith, Tyler Benson and Evan Bouchard
  • LowetideKen Holland’s targets for his first trade deadline with the Oilers.
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s trade deadline options for the Oilers
  • Jonathan Willis: Zack Kassian’s breakout performance presents Oilers GM Ken Holland with a familiar dilemma
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects list, winter 2019

KEITH GRETZKY’S DEADLINE LIST LAST YEAR

I suggested at the deadline last year the interim general manager Keith Gretzky should try to offload as many veterans as possible. That list included Cam Talbot, Alex Petrovic, Brandon Manning, Matt Benning, Alex Chiasson, Ryan Spooner and Tobias Rieder. Gretzky did in fact deal Talbot and Spooner, with Petrovic and Rieder leaving over the summer.

I also suggested Gretzky acquire a scoring forward with term, and he grabbed Sam Gagner. My idea was to aim higher but teams aren’t selling players they need at the deadline.

I further suggested Gretzky find a righty defenceman (with term) who could play between Larsson on the top pair and Benning, Bear, Bouchard or Persson on the third pair. The answer was Bear.

Finally, I recommended a backup goalie who could push Koskinen. He was playing for Calgary at the time, and Mike Smith has had two solid runs this season for Edmonton.

OILERS CURRENT 50-MAN

KEN HOLLAND’S DEADLINE LIST

It looks like the Oilers will arrive at the deadline as a buyer. The TSN list has several quality options that would be ideal for Edmonton. I think the Oilers would do well to pursue a player under control. That would include Detroit Red Wings winger Andreas Athanasiou, or Columbus RW Josh Anderson. The price point on either man would be dear, not sure there’s a match there for Holland.

The top end of the rental (UFA) side will also be dear. The idea of having Chris Kreider on McDavid’s wing is a dream, but it’s going to cost the moon. I think Jean-Gabriel Pageau and Tyler Toffoli will also come in at prices the club will consider too expensive.

At the lower end of the Chiarelli list there are names like Ryan Donato (has a year left) and Craig Smith that might offer Holland an upgrade for the current roster while also working on a budget. I’ll throw NJD Miles Wood in here too, although he’s not on the TSN list, and Jason Zucker because he may be on the TSN list again if the Wild slide down the standings in the West.

REMNANTS AND ROLL ENDS

Jesse Puljujarvi is having a solid year and would have value, I always thought he would fit with the Rangers, Hurricanes or Blues. We’ll see and it’s probably a summer trade.

William Lagesson has to be traded before fall and waivers at the start of the 2020 season. It’s him or Caleb Jones and Jones has the contract. I think the deadline might be the place to make the trade, although Holland moves by sundial.

Jujhar Khaira gets mentioned as a player who could be heading out of Edmonton, but his poor play over the last while (month?) have him outside the lineup. If value is going to be built between now and the deadline, Khaira will need to play and play well. He is a strong PKer.

I will guess that Holland has decided to offer his second-round pick at the deadline, in hopes he can give the team a push into the playoffs. He might be able to get it back on the draft floor (Puljujarvi) this summer.

CONDORS 2019-20

Stuart Skinner is making all the stops in January and the Condors are back in the playoff race after winning three in a row. Noticeable are Stuart Skinner, Evan Bouchard, William Lagesson, Matt Benning and Dmitri Samorukov. Adding Benning has given the team’s defense real structure, there’s a lesson there.

Up front, Josh Currie has been scoring at an impressive clip, Tyler Benson went 1-2-3 on the weekend and Markus Granlund is a top flight player at this level. Will we see a recall in the coming days?

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236 Responses to "Pick Up The Pieces"

  1. Darryl8843 says:

    I’ve been beating this drum so long it’s almost worn out. I think we need help in the top 6. Please recall Benson before a trade Ken. The answer may lie within. After all that’s what the farm is for. Lowetide am i the only one that thinks this?

  2. Lowetide says:

    Darryl8843:
    I’ve been beating this drum so long it’s almost worn out. I think we need help in the top 6. Please recall Benson before a trade Ken. The answer may lie within. After all that’s what the farm is for. Lowetide am i the only one that thinks this?

    No Darryl, there’s a fairly large group of us now. He’s been ready for some time, probably training camp.

    • Jethro Tull says:

      I’m not so sure Ken is hot on Benson. Ken could have brought him up when Nuge and Kassian were injured. Didn’t think Ken was like that, Benson would be a shot to nothing. He may confirm any bias Ken has, which Ken loses nothing, or Benson could do Ken a solid and cross a big To Do off his list.

      • Coffeys_Messy_eh says:

        I remember reading that Holland would vastly prefer a call up to be permanent and not yo-yoing a player up and down. I think that’s what’s at play with Benson. I expect him up soon and, barring a total bed defecation, him to stay up permanently.

  3. Jethro Tull says:

    If Holland can get a high second rounder for JP, he should do that deal now.

    JP biggest value may be as an intriguing sweetener in a bigger deal.

    Him playing for us would be the best possible outcome, but that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

    Years of overpaying for shitty players has blinded us from the fact that quality players come at a price. So you deal from where you can afford.

    Can we afford cap? No. Can we afford forwards? No. I’m not going to mention the 1st rounder, it’s too early on a Sunday for a mob meltdown, let’s just say we won’t pay that. Same for prospects, yet prospects are exactly what we can afford.

    This is the reality, otherwise we’re back to the rights to Omark for Shea Weber and the Compelting years.

  4. hunter1909 says:

    Jethro Tull: If Holland can get a high second rounder for JP, he should do that deal now.

    A 4th overall pick for a measly 2nd rounder? You must be a Portsmouth fan.

    • Jethro Tull says:

      Pompey 4 Life!

      JP’s skill is of a 4th OV. His ability to show up to work and do what the boss tells him without bitching to the media is what sewers his value. See Ho-Sang, Josh. Plus all other teams have to do wait and eventually get him for free.

      KY doing what he’s doing is further pushing JP away from us.

  5. Darth Tu says:

    Jethro Tull,

    We can’t deal the first – I’d be against it in most years, but this draft is especially deep. You’d be crippling the team in the long term for a shot at winning 2 playoff rounds at most this spring.

    • Jethro Tull says:

      Darth buddy, reread what I wrote, I accepted it’s off the table mate. Please don’t force choke me or mind trick me into being a Flames fan

  6. Jethro Tull says:

    Does anyone know why every team in the All-Star weekend had their logo faithfully reproduced on their jersey except for the Oilers?

    • Material Elvis says:

      What do you mean? The crest was neon orange on a gray jersey….

      • Jethro Tull says:

        Yeah, I think every other team had just their logo in original colours?

        Why was ours neon orange. Unless it’s been neon orange for years and I’ve been tripping balls.

  7. Darth Tu says:

    Jethro Tull,

    Sorry – I saw the first mentioned and immediately went into defence of the draft pick mode lol.

    No force choking unless you want it. Consent is important!

  8. blainer says:

    JP needs to make the Finnish national team for the worlds plus have a great tourney for us to get much in return.

    He has the same issues Yak had IMO in terms of listening to what needs to be done to make it as a pro and we were lucky to get a third rounder for him.

    I just don’t think Jesse will put in the effort to make it. Maybe if he watched CMD’s documentary Friday night it might give him some motivation.

    If he doesn’t have a great run the rest of the season and make the big tourney we will have to settle for a very low return. I hope he actually gets traded as I still don’t think he will make it with this team. JMO.

  9. Reja says:

    Jethro Tull:
    If Holland can get a high second rounder for JP, he should do that deal now.

    JP biggest value may be as an intriguing sweetener in a bigger deal.

    Him playing for us would be the best possible outcome, but that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

    Years of overpaying for shitty players has blinded us from the fact that quality players come at a price. So you deal from where you can afford.

    Can we afford cap? No. Can we afford forwards? No. I’m not going to mention the 1st rounder, it’s too early on a Sunday for a mob meltdown, let’s just say we won’t pay that. Same for prospects, yet prospects are exactly what we can afford.

    This is the reality, otherwise we’re back to the rights to Omark for Shea Weber and the Compelting years.

    JP cooked his goose when he quit playing. Sometimes you don’t get a do-over in life.

    • Bag of Pucks says:

      The signs were all there. Bucket too small for his head. Licks his own snot.

      Hopefully the Oil have learned their lesson and are watching for these red flags in the future.

  10. leadfarmer says:

    I would much rather use JP as paying the Seattle piper in a year than getting a 3rd round pick for him. And that’s if he never wants to come back

    Also we need to get a 3rd line C for Benson to play with

    • Material Elvis says:

      You’re assuming that Seattle would take JP. I think they’d take one of our young defenders over him.

  11. JimmyV1965 says:

    The Oilers need two forwards. They need two forwards today. They will need two forwards at the start of next season.

    We need to trade wherever it takes to make it happen. However, we are not in the rental market. We must get players with term.

    To make that happen, I would be willing to trade first round picks, prospects, whatever it takes. We have the two best players in the Pacific. The second line appears to be rolling. If we get someone for McDavid and push a couple players down the lineup, this team can make some noise in the playoffs.

    Holland should be hounding the Habs, Wild and Red Wings for wingers. What are we waiting for?

    • Rugbypig says:

      JimmyV1965:
      The Oilers need two forwards. They need two forwards today. They will need two forwards at the start of next season.

      We need to trade wherever it takes to make it happen. However, we are not in the rental market. We must get players with term.

      To make that happen, I would be willing to trade first round picks, prospects, whatever it takes. We have the two best players in the Pacific. The second line appears to be rolling. If we get someone for McDavid and push a couple players down the lineup, this team can make some noise in the playoffs.

      Holland should be hounding the Habs, Wild and Red Wings for wingers. What are we waiting for?

      Yes the Oilers need these players but they do not have the trade able depth to do it.
      They cannot afford the rob Peter to pay Paul since the prospect pool is so shallow.
      This is what bad drafting and development does it hamstrings you when you need to materially improve.
      As fans we need to remember the 2020 season is just today McDavid and Draisaitl’s contracts directly represent 6 seasons of playoff tomorrows.
      Which one is the most important to you?

      • Material Elvis says:

        Agreed. They do not have the depth required to make the unicorn moves that some fans want. I think that the drafting has been pretty good, all things considered. The two forfeited picks for TMc and Chia were a blow, and Chia’s Reinhart trade was a massive fuck up. That’s four top prospects that would have been ready now. Add in the Yakupov and JP busts plus the Hall trade and that’s why our forward depth is so thin. The 2015 draft could have been arguably the best Oilers draft of all time and set us up for a decade.

        • JimmyV1965 says:

          So what’s the plan then? Wait two years and hope that one of our forward prospects develops. No thanks.

          • pts2pndr says:

            The answer is somewhere between. With a little luck and a small sweetener you should be able to move Neal to Seattle. With Gagner, Brodziak etc coming off the books you have additional cap space to work with. Rather than put yourself in a weakened position by trading assets or taking on further cap restraints you will have put yourself in a better position moving forward. Do it right and stop putting the team in a position to fail.

  12. Bag of Pucks says:

    Gary Bettman seemed pretty jovial in his annual interview with Maclean yesterday. Like 3 martinis jovial.

    Nice to see that drinking on the job is enjoying a bit of a renaissance lately.

    I’d take a tipsy Bettman over a sober Burgers anyday.

  13. leadfarmer says:

    I’d be interested in Granlund from Nashville. Seems like a much lower price tags than Kreider for a very skilled player who did not fit in Nash
    If he meshes well you could re-sign him

    • Jethro Tull says:

      Arthur, King of the Britons: We’re looking for the Granlund.

      Frenchman: No thanks, we already got one.

      Yeah, he’s the kind of bet Ken has to make and win. Need to build the value of the squad like Klopp did for Liverpool.

    • GordieHoweHatTrick says:

      Andy Dufresne:
      I find it difficult to understand how/why they would trade a guy like Lagesson without knowing/attempting to determine what he can do at the NHL level.

      I understand logjam and asset management, but wouldn’t we want see Lagesson for at least 20 games in the NHL before we consider moving him?

      Or is he the type of player whose skill level / potential is better left to the imagination of prospective trading partners?

      Thought the same thing for a long tome as well. Then another poster above (sort I don’t recall, on phone😁) mentioned that it would be highly unlikely that he would be grabbed at waivers next fall having only played a handful of nhl games.

      It could play to the teams advantage to keep his profile low until next year when he may be 7d or kept for depth in Bakersfield until the rest of the d situation is a little more clear
      Ie russell…

      Would love to see him getting more of a chance but this could be a reasonable explanation. Particularly if they already have a good handle on where he will fit in next year….
      ?

  14. Reja says:

    Darth Tu:
    Jethro Tull,

    Sorry – I saw the first mentioned and immediately went into defence of the draft pick mode lol.

    No force choking unless you want it. Consent is important!

    We need a 3C that can win faceoffs from both sides and a top 6 forward unless Benson is the answer. 97 percent chance we’re losing the third rounder no way in hell i’m trading the first rounder our bargaining chips come from the deep deep D.

  15. digger50 says:

    Holland moves like an old man driving slow in the fast lane. At 5m per year.

    “Let’s wait and see where we are at the deadline”

    What if we are 1 point out? Oh fiddles.

    How about in a wide open tight race for the Pacific you hit the turbo now – and make certain you are in the playoffs.

    • Material Elvis says:

      There is no certainty that a trade gets them into the playoffs. You must have been fond of the Chiarelli approach?

    • pts2pndr says:

      Haste makes waste. Strength takes time to build. Life is not a video game. What we have overall is starting to show because it takes time to see what we have in the likes of Hass, Nygard etc. Many of our current players are trending upward. This team overall is much better than most of out community is willing to admit or even see, given the last decade of futility. What some are suggesting will not only not advance our current position but mortgage our future. I believe we stay the course and bring up Benson to see if he is ready. There are teams that will now look at our roster while they are shopping for deadline deals. Let them come to us if you want value. Doing it the other way is in my opinion for losers.

  16. OilClog says:

    Why would anyone offer anything more then a bad contract going the other way or 92 Ford ranger for Josh Anderson is beyond me.

    Oilers don’t need to add broken pieces to their push, especially broken parts that involve the brain. Team would be lucky to receive a Alex Chaisson level of contribution and that’s if he somewhat can pull his head out of his ass.

    If it’s not Neal with no salary retention or Gagner with no retention or a 6th round pick plus a bowl of soup, walk on.

  17. Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual says:

    leadfarmer:
    I’d be interested in Granlund from Nashville.Seems like a much lower price tags than Kreider for a very skilled player who did not fit in Nash
    If he meshes well you could re-sign him

    Aside from Zucker, I think he’s my ideal in-season addition. Fits at either LW with McDavid or 3C with Benson if he’s still inclined to play C.

  18. Reja says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Gary Bettman seemed pretty jovial in his annual interview with Maclean yesterday. Like 3 martinis jovial.

    Nice to see that drinking on the job is enjoying a bit of a renaissance lately.

    I’d take a tipsy Bettman over a sober Burgers anyday.

    digger50:
    Holland moves like an old man driving slow in the fast lane. At 5m per year.

    “Let’s wait and see where we are at the deadline”

    What if we are 1 point out? Oh fiddles.

    How about in a wide open tight race for the Pacific you hit the turbo now – and make certain you are in the playoffs.

    The pacific is wide open if Holland was in year 3 instead of year 1 of his deal the trigger has been pulled already.

  19. OilClog says:

    digger50,

    Bruh he hasn’t been on the job for 10 months yet, he rebuilt essentially the entire bottom 6, and hasn’t blown his brains out wasting assets yet.

    Did you not see the documentary where his best player was possibly out for a year or more.. Why would he blow his assets when he doesn’t know if they’re going to be pushing for playoffs or pushing for darkness.

    If Kenny doesn’t out perform David D or Jared S then let’s fire up the pitchforks, but he does have a history of supplying his playoff troops with actual support.

    Just let him have a chance, if he brings in Josh Anderson for 3 pieces, I’ll be first in line with 3 pitchforks and a wild cheetah.

  20. Mr DeBakey says:

    Reja: JP cooked his goose when he quit playing. Sometimes you don’t get a do-over in life.

    When did he quit playing?
    I must’ve been at the beach that day.

  21. geowal says:

    How confident are we that Lagesson doesn’t clear waivers in the fall? He looks like he’ll have basically no NHL experience and said team will have to keep him up. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion. Sure, he’s tradeable and if you can get a useful forward you do it, but I’m not as worried to move him as some. At the least, there’s lots of time for that.
    Put another way, if someone offers you the John Marino deal you balk.

  22. leadfarmer says:

    Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual: Aside from Zucker, I think he’s my ideal in-season addition. Fits at either LW with McDavid or 3C with Benson if he’s still inclined to play C.

    I would love Zucker too
    But I don’t think he gets moved as they are trying to get Khl boy to come and have a logjam on D that they are going to use to get more F skill

  23. teddyturnbuckle says:

    I think this is the only website left that I read that doesn’t have ads popping up between paragraphs. Hope it stays that way. Main stream websites like the Edmonton Journal have become almost unreadable from a phone or tablet with articles constantly moving up and down with ads. Technology has not helped the reader, it’s ruined the reading experience with greed for more ads. Don’t get me started on all these highlight pop ups on every Sports page either.

    • geowal says:

      The Athletic doesn’t have ads…

      • godot10 says:

        The Athletic isn’t profitable yet. And it isn’t clear that they have a road to profitability yet.

        • New Improved Darkness says:

          Stay tuned for whether Condé Nast’s “road to profitability” any quarter now devolves into a Decade of Journalistic Darkness.

          Also presently under much debate: whether the human species has a road to viability. This is not 100% clear.

          For the moment, with God’s celestial grandchild pumping up water-hammers in the bathtub until the suds geyser upwards in tag-team rooster-tails—of which a fair majority crashes back down into the bathtub again, minus only the angel’s share—the accepted standard of success is that you’re swimming at all.

          Unfortunately, a hasty amphibian embrace of the 2″ of relatively calm water now on the bathroom floor won’t much outlast bedtime story. And then even if the rugrat remains bath-time unsupervised, he/she might instead decide to spend the whole of the next week perfecting his/her sudsy soap beard instead of geysering out bathwater in the quantity required to complete your amphibian reproductive cycle.

          ———

          Calvin: Hey, this isn’t water!

          Hobbes: I heard Mom talking about hexane.

          Calvin: What’s hexane?

          Hobbes: From what I overheard, less stinky than carbon tetrachloride.

          Calvin: But it doesn’t spoosh the same!

          Hobbes: And apparently, it’s also easier to clean up.

          Calvin: Gramps ruins everything!

          Hobbes: Also, something about “stopping the little firebug right in his tracks”.

          Calvin: Matches!

          Hobbes: Also, your temporary liver upgrade makes you impervious to 1700 known forms of substance abuse.

          Calvin: Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs!

          Hobbes: Other than Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs.

          ———

          Unfortunately, God did not anticipate Calvin dumping five boxes of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs into the hexane bathwater before fetching the matches.

          It was not a clean-combustion bathroom cleanup after all.

          Calvin did look very funny with no eyebrows for the next two months, and it did set the little firebug back a few years, so not all was lost from the initial plan.

          But the huge plume of black smoke did set off all the fire alarms in the 8th Arrondissement, which were all wired into the same circuit in an all-or-none configuration, out of an abundance of soot-fearing cloud-code precaution.

          ———

          Shivering spirit standing outside wrapped in a damp bath towel: Kind of makes you long for Earth again, doesn’t it?

          Spirit with half a manicure: I think God should flood the entire place with carbon tetrachloride, and we should all become fish.

          Shivering spirit standing outside wrapped in a damp bath towel: Your idea of Heaven is swimming around forever like fish in a giant vat of dry-cleaning fluid?

          Spirit with half a manicure: What? Isn’t yours?

          Shivering spirit standing outside wrapped in a damp bath towel: Well, as they say, cleanliness is next to Godliness.

          Spirit with half a manicure: My point exactly.

    • Slocanoil says:

      ON used to be a daily read. They’ve ruined their site imo.

  24. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    From yesterday post
    LT suggested lineup
    Joakim Nygard—Connor McDavid—Josh Archibald
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins—Leon Draisaitl—Kailer Yamamoto
    Jujhar Khaira—Gaetan Haas—Zack Kassian
    Tyler Benson—Riley Sheahan—Alex Chiasson/Sam Gagner

    I agree with trying the first 2 lines. I was thinking similar in a post last week Speed on that first line would be a real handful for opposing D! 2nd line is humming along right now. Don’t fix what ain’t broke.

    I would suggest Benson up to 3 (with a few shifts at 1LW after a few games. JJ down to 4 and possibly rotate Neal on 4RW with some power play time. See if that works and/or motivates Neal. if not Chia in for Neal.
    Waive Gag
    Keep Russell up

    See what Besnon does for 9 games then make trade decisions

    See how Kass plays on (mostly) 3RW over this stretch before finalizing the next contract.

  25. Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual says:

    leadfarmer: I would love Zucker too
    But I don’t think he gets moved as they are trying to get Khl boy to come and have a logjam on D that they are going to use to get more F skill

    Certainly fair reasoning. Further, Zucker seems pretty invested in staying there so that likely factors in at least a bit. Granny should be attainable at least via trade and perhaps even in UFA. Hard to tell if he’d have interest, but there would be a gaping hole next to Connor for him.

  26. geowal says:

    Anybody know why Carolina’s first round pick has been singled out on the tsn trade bait list?

  27. Reja says:

    Mr DeBakey: When did he quit playing?
    I must’ve been at the beach that day.

    He quit playing hockey for the Edmonton Oilers and went back home to play third tier hockey. It was in all the papers last summer and fall.

  28. blainer says:

    I think a great trade target would be Glendenning on Detroit. One of the best RT shot faceoff winning center’s in the league.

    Faceoff’s will be crucial both in trying to get to the playoff’s and then if we make it.. even more so. Very important on the PK as well.

    Call up Benson and hopefully he and yammer can continue to provide the secondary scoring needed.

    Glendenning shouldn’t cost too much either.IMO.

  29. speeds says:

    By no means do I expect Holland to do this, but what would the immediate in-market reaction be if EDM were to trade all of Kassian, Larsson, and Russell prior to the deadline and say:

    We needed room for our young players, who we believe can help us now and moving forward.

    ???

  30. Lowetide says:

    speeds:
    By no means do I expect Holland to do this, but what would the immediate in-market reaction be if EDM were to trade all of Kassian, Larsson, and Russell prior to the deadline and say:

    We needed room for our young players, who we believe can help us now and moving forward.

    ???

    I think that’s unlikely but would be a brilliant strategy.

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      I really like Larsson and Kassian. They are pert of a winning strategy imo.

      However, if you can get above market value for them at the deadline, I wouldnt be completely opposed.

      Its 100% completely not going to happen……oh wait….its an analytics site…..

      Its 99.99% not going to happen 🙂

  31. slopitch says:

    speeds:
    By no means do I expect Holland to do this, but what would the immediate in-market reaction be if EDM were to trade all of Kassian, Larsson, and Russell prior to the deadline and say:

    We needed room for our young players, who we believe can help us now and moving forward.

    ???

    I actually suggested this to WG and he told me I was too extreme. I like buying or selling. The goal isnt to get into the playoffs. Its to have a shot at winning.

    Imo they should be looking at a) selling or b) buying a Paleiri type. The middle ground doesnt interest me much. That said, i should be fine with playoffs.

    To answer your question, I think the fans would hate it. And 29/97/93/77 would hate it. But I dont think St Louis fans were happy when they sold either of Stasny or Shattenkirk. But the Oilers have 2 of the best players in the game. Giving them some reinforcements isnt likely to be a major error. Unless you are Chiarelli 😜

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      ” 29/97/93/77 would hate it.”

      Excellent point. Thank You.

      I think this room is tight. In part, due to two humble superstars; vocal Smith and Neal; skilled tough guys like Kassian, Larsson and Nurse; and a Coach whose realationship building has built a co-hesive team who are playing for each other.

      Holland is not going to want to mess with that. Add? Probably. Substract? I highly doubt it.

      Lets not kid ourselves. NHLers know what it takes to win at this level. It takes a variety of role players and skills. And it takes cohesiveness.

  32. slopitch says:

    Lowetide,

    See its not crazy!

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      lol……well……crazy is a spectrum……so….
      .
      .
      .
      One man’s crazy is another man’s genius.

  33. OriginalPouzar says:

    Holland has been very clear that he wants to wait a bit longer to see where the team is at closer to the deadline.

    He has also expressed that, if the team is playing well and put themselves in a good position then he feels he “owes it to them” to give them a boost.

    I don’t like that expressed verbal as I believe, if taken on its face, it could lead to Kenny overpaying in acquisition cost to ensure that he gets a deal done – as opposed to being patient and even walking away with no deal if the prices aren’t right.

    With that said, I don’t think he’ll be high risk and will still refuse to trade away the top futures (1st rounder, Bouchard, Broberg, Sammy) unless, of course, a great deal is out there for a player with term.

    ———————–

    Holland was in Tucson this weekend and watched the Condors sweep a top team in their own barn – great back to back performances.

    He will have seen:

    – Skinner be top notch one night and steller the next
    – Benson do what he’s been doing – tough on the boards and simply making plays and getting points
    – Bouchard be a dominant AHL d-man that is all but NHL ready.
    – Josh Currie be able to finish plays
    – the other pro rookies – Maksimov, Samorukov and McLeod show that that are developing well and could all have futures.

    My take aways:

    – he won’t call Bouchard up but, after watching him be so good two nights in a row, he should have relative confidence that he will be an NHL player in 2020/21 and, potentially a material one by year’s end.

    – Benson should be given a shot before he spends assets on acquiring a “top 6 forward”

    – Currie is a dark-horse to see some NHL games.

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      I find it difficult to understand how/why they would trade a guy like Lagesson without knowing/attempting to determine what he can do at the NHL level.

      I understand logjam and asset management, but wouldn’t we want see Lagesson for at least 20 games in the NHL before we consider moving him?

      Or is he the type of player whose skill level / potential is better left to the imagination of prospective trading partners?

  34. leadfarmer says:

    geowal:
    Anybody know why Carolina’s first round pick has been singled out on the tsn trade bait list?

    Probably because they have Toronto’s pick as well

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      Carolina looks good, but they do not look like contenders to me. Keeping and making those two first round picks could solidify their position as contenders for the next 5 years..

  35. digger50 says:

    Material Elvis: Reply)

    And then I would suggest you must have been fond of Tambellini.

    There is a large gap between being foolish and doing nothing.

    Benson is not up yet is he? We need an answer on him ASAP as it could completely affect trade deadline targets.

    And there are two messages in regards to Connors injury and recovery. Perhaps it affected Holland’s plans in the summer but I doubt it. It should certainly affect your view as a fan. He was almost out. Gone. And we start the rebuild again. I think we must recognize that each McDavidcseason is gold. And with the two best players plus support, the Oilers havecas good a chance as anyone. How come nobody seen 2017 success coming? Everything is clear in hindsight.

    This kind of talk leads people to believe that my plan is to go alll in. It’s not. My plan would be to act sooner, get the player you want, ensure playofffs. I know it’s not a guarantee, but doing nothing is also not much of a plan. That help could be internal, we don’t know.

  36. JimmyV1965 says:

    Rugbypig: Yes the Oilers need these players but they do not have the trade able depth to do it.
    They cannot afford the rob Peter to pay Paul since the prospect pool is so shallow.
    This is what bad drafting and development does it hamstrings you when you need to materially improve.
    As fans we need to remember the 2020 season is just today McDavid and Draisaitl’s contracts directly represent 6 seasons of playoff tomorrows.
    Which one is the most important to you?

    This team would be much better today and tomorrow if it traded the Broberg pick for JT Miller. Making trades is part of a hr fabric of building a team.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:

    Why does Lagesson have to be traded?

    Why can’t he be qualified and his rights retained? He likely signs his QO.

    I understand he’s subject to waivers next season, however, unless something changes, will he be claimed if re-assigned in early October? I mean, recall the players that went through waivers unclaimed at that time this season? Much more “prominent” names that Willie made it through.

  38. digger50 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Holland has been very clear that he wants to wait a bit longer to see where the team is at closer to the deadline.

    He has also expressed that, if the team is playing well and put themselves in a good position then he feels he “owes it to them” to give them a boost.

    I don’t like that expressed verbal as I believe, if taken on its face, it could lead to Kenny overpaying in acquisition cost to ensure that he gets a deal done – as opposed to being patient and even walking away with no deal if the prices aren’t right.

    With that said, I don’t think he’ll be high risk and will still refuse to trade away the top futures (1st rounder, Bouchard, Broberg, Sammy) unless, of course, a great deal is out there for a player with term.

    ———————–

    Holland was in Tucson this weekend and watched the Condors sweep a top team in their own barn – great back to back performances.

    He will have seen:

    – Skinner be top notch one night and steller the next
    – Benson do what he’s been doing – tough on the boards and simply making plays and getting points
    – Bouchard be a dominant AHL d-man that is all but NHL ready.
    – Josh Currie be able to finish plays
    – the other pro rookies – Maksimov, Samorukov and McLeod show that that are developing well and could all have futures.

    My take aways:

    – he won’t call Bouchard up but, after watching him be so good two nights in a row, he should have relative confidence that he will be an NHL player in 2020/21 and, potentially a material one by year’s end.

    – Benson should be given a shot before he spends assets on acquiring a “top 6 forward”

    – Currie is a dark-horse to see some NHL games.

    I like Currie as well, he has always quietly and consistently improved at every level. I think he may be blocked here with the amount of youth they are breaking in but I’d like to see him get a shot at some point. I had him ahead of Russell, but so did many.

  39. OriginalPouzar says:

    Matty Benning didn’t play last night – that wasn’t a set-back, it was always the plan.

    Ryan Holt thinks he’ll be called up shortly.

  40. defmn says:

    speeds:
    By no means do I expect Holland to do this, but what would the immediate in-market reaction be if EDM were to trade all of Kassian, Larsson, and Russell prior to the deadline and say:

    We needed room for our young players, who we believe can help us now and moving forward.

    ???

    It works a lot better if the team hasn’t been out of the playoffs since this years draft class was born. 😉

    That is a really bold move but I think it would cost you Nuge next summer because he walks faced with another restart imo.

  41. OriginalPouzar says:

    Its now the AHL all-star break – skills today and game tomorrow, I think.

    I wonder if Benson gets the recall after he participates or if we wait a few more games?

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      Would be a good time to move him up. He’ll be riding a high in terms of confidence and could be part of a positive wave of “playoff run” hockey. Coming into a good/positive situation would be good for him to experience. Good for his development. . The whole team should be elevating thier game at this time of the year and after a substantial mental and physcial rest.

      If not now then when?

      If they dont bring Benson up now. then we probably dont see him until late March (if we fail to compete) or until next year if we are in a playoff position in March.

    • Numenius says:

      Skills was Friday and game Saturday.

  42. leeinvan says:

    I am not a fan of dealing the 2nd rounder, we have already lost the 3rd rounder. The team desperately needs forward prospects that have real value.
    Sure we have a lot of decent D men prospects, but this has caused a logjam where some of the D men should be playing on the big team. I think a lot revolves around Nurse. If Nurse wants to be paid like a genuine #1 d man then they trade him. This would change the pecking order. If Nurse wants to be reasonable then they keep him.
    For all the talk about J.P if he was playing on the farm team, he would probably be the teams top prospect, so trading him for a mid 2nd rounder seems like a steal for the other team. It would be nice if the Oilers could do something similar, instead of always trading for pennies on the $.

  43. godot10 says:

    geowal:
    Anybody know why Carolina’s first round pick has been singled out on the tsn trade bait list?

    They have two first round picks. Their own, and Toronto’s. Because they have a management that realizes that available cap space is a valuable asset for acquiring hockey assets at a bargain.

  44. v4ance says:

    speeds:
    By no means do I expect Holland to do this, but what would the immediate in-market reaction be if EDM were to trade all of Kassian, Larsson, and Russell prior to the deadline and say:

    We needed room for our young players, who we believe can help us now and moving forward.

    ???

    I would do it based on the return or if Kassian’s contract demands are too onerous. Hypothetically, if we got a 1st round pick for Larsson, a 3rd round pick for Kassian and a 2nd round pick for Russell, that would be an acceptable haul. Especially if they were all 2020 picks.

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      Whichever way it goes, I am very pleased with Hollands approach to the situation. He began negotiations with the Kassian camp early enough to be going into the trade deadline with eyes wide open, armed with the knowledge of what it will cost to keep Kassian and therefore what Kassian (and his associated future cap space) is worth to the Oilers in a trade.

      Music!

    • John Chambers says:

      Hypothetically, if the Oilers didn’t have Kassian and had a 3rd round pick to trade, I think you’d be over the moon if we acquired Kassian at that price and watched him produce alongside 97 for a playoff run.

      What does trading Kassian signal to Connor McDavid other than all he re-hab was for nought and that management is insane?

  45. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Why does Lagesson have to be traded?

    Why can’t he be qualified and his rights retained?He likely signs his QO.

    I understand he’s subject to waivers next season, however, unless something changes, will he be claimed if re-assigned in early October?I mean, recall the players that went through waivers unclaimed at that time this season? Much more “prominent” names that Willie made it through.

    I was really shocked that no one claimed McKeown off waivers. That was very early in training camp.

    • BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

      He was a favourite of Vor, and I too was shocked he sailed through waivers. Feels like a missed opportunity to pick up value for free.

  46. godot10 says:

    leeinvan:
    I am not a fan of dealing the 2nd rounder, we have already lost the 3rd rounder. The team desperately needs forward prospects that have real value.
    Sure we have a lot of decent D men prospects, but this has caused a logjam where some of the D men should be playing on the big team. I think a lot revolves around Nurse. If Nurse wants to be paid like a genuine #1 d man then they trade him. This would change the pecking order. If Nurse wants to be reasonable then they keep him.
    For all the talk about J.P if he was playing on the farm team, he would probably be the teams top prospect, so trading him for a mid 2nd rounder seems like a steal for the other team. It would be nice if the Oilers could do something similar, instead of always trading for pennies on the $.

    Nurse isn’t asking to be paid like a genuine #1 D. Those guys get paid over $9 million on new contracts.

  47. JimmyV1965 says:

    v4ance: I would do it based on the return or if Kassian’s contract demands are too onerous.Hypothetically, if we got a 1st round pick for Larsson, a 3rd round pick for Kassian and a 2nd round pick for Russell, that would be an acceptable haul.Especially if they were all 2020 picks.

    I get the strategy of trading Kassian, Larsson and Russel, but would you actually do this for draft picks? Trade them to improve the team, not embark on a perpetual rebuild.

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      I know it sounds like an exageration and a cliche, but you cannot have too many Defensmen if you anticipate a long playoff run.

      I cant see the Oilers moving any NHL rostered Defensmen at the deadline.

  48. jp says:

    geowal:
    How confident are we that Lagesson doesn’t clear waivers in the fall? He looks like he’ll have basically no NHL experience and said team will have to keep him up. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion. Sure, he’s tradeable and if you can get a useful forward you do it, but I’m not as worried to move him as some. At the least, there’s lots of time for that.
    Put another way, if someone offers you the John Marino deal you balk.

    +1

    There’s no rush. And I don’t think he’d return much value in a trade ATM.

  49. meanashell11 says:

    v4ance,

    You are trading Larsson for picks??? I can see Russell but Larsson? I do not think that would be a good deal unless you are trading him to detroit!

  50. John Chambers says:

    I’d like to do a deal with Montreal. They are headed for a re-build and they have wingers.

    Tatar is producing like a first-line player and it seems we need better than James Neal alongside McDavid. A top-line LW is our most pressing need, IMO.

    Benson can play 3LW with Neal on the right side.

  51. JimmyV1965 says:

    John Chambers:
    I’d like to do a deal with Montreal. They are headed for a re-build and they have wingers.

    Tatar is producing like a first-line player and it seems we need better than James Neal alongside McDavid. A top-line LW is our most pressing need, IMO.

    Benson can play 3LW with Neal on the right side.

    Hell, if we traded for Lehkonen he would be our best winger. It doesn’t take a huge asset investment to improve this team.

  52. leadfarmer says:

    meanashell11:
    v4ance,

    You are trading Larsson for picks??? I can see Russell but Larsson? I do not think that would be a good deal unless you are trading him to detroit!

    No one wants Russell’s contract
    If we are moving Larsson we are not interested in playoffs
    Bear Bouchard Jones Benning on right side means your tanking not looking at the playoffs

  53. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jethro Tull:
    If Holland can get a high second rounder for JP, he should do that deal now.

    JP biggest value may be as an intriguing sweetener in a bigger deal.

    Him playing for us would be the best possible outcome, but that doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

    Years of overpaying for shitty players has blinded us from the fact that quality players come at a price. So you deal from where you can afford.

    Can we afford cap? No. Can we afford forwards? No. I’m not going to mention the 1st rounder, it’s too early on a Sunday for a mob meltdown, let’s just say we won’t pay that. Same for prospects, yet prospects are exactly what we can afford.

    This is the reality, otherwise we’re back to the rights to Omark for Shea Weber and the Compelting years.

    I would assume, if a second round pick from a bottom feeding team was on the table, Holland would have made that move by now.

    ————–

    With respect to the prior comments about Holland not liking Benson evidenced by no call up yet, I think he is just allowing as much development as possible with the NHL team generally either treading water or playing well through the first four months of the season. When he calls him up, he wants it to be “permanent”.

    If he’s not recalled in the next few days to few weeks, especially after Holland having watched him twice this weekend, well, then we may “know more”.

  54. Jethro Tull says:

    pts2pndr: Haste makes waste.

    Tambellini had this above his desk in Comic Sans.

  55. Woogie63 says:

    I would NEVER trade Jesse. Until he comes and plays for some of his next contract.

    Oilers are on lots of vets NTC lists as a no go.
    Oilers might struggle with signing talented college kids … Marino (Fox types)

    The team has to get a second contact out of ALL signed talented hockey players to be successful in the long term.

    If Jesse can sit out and get a new team, do we want that repeated in the future?

  56. Harpers Hair says:

    Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash in California.

  57. Rugbypig says:

    JimmyV1965:
    So what’s the plan then? Wait two years and hope that one of our forward prospects develops. No thanks.

    This sounds like you don’t want a pension plan for when you get to 65.
    The answer is more like the Oilers create better depth and then get Both of players up from the minors and tradable assets to “fatten up” for the playoffs. Other wise known as hockey deals (I’ve got decent prospects on defence you have decent prospects on offence lets do a deal that strengthens both out teams and benefit)
    The first step of this plan will happen this season as the expiring entry level contacts (on the defence) will provide a return for the forward group)
    This is big picture thinking that should have been adhered to with Chiarelli starting in 2015 that Mactavish had in place for the strong 2015 draft class. Instead he traded 2 draft picks for a prospect the couldn’t crack the roster of a team that was as mediocre as the Oilers. (I’m being kind withe the mediocre reference)
    As the present plan for the Oilers is more balanced play throughout the lineup that matches up line by line with the rest of the NHL, we the fans see consistent growth by getting TO the playoffs as well as getting “deeper performances” while IN the playoffs.
    If the Oilers were “ready” as you are suggesting the Oilers would not have brought on as many players that they were forced to (on one year contracts and not NHL proven) because the bottom 6 were such a steaming pile of solid waste.
    Find / develop good players is happening in front of us and we are contending for the playoffs.
    I and everyone on these forums want this repeated for the next 10 plus years with the “payoff” of contention for Stanley.

  58. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Kobe Bryant killed in a helicopter crash in California.

    Private Helicopter.

  59. Rugbypig says:

    Reja,

    Man I felt that back hand over here

  60. duct tape and foil says:

    Our young dmen (Jones, Lagesson, Bouch) will replace our previous 5-6-7 dmen (Russell, Benning, Maning). No need to trade Lagesson by fall at all. Russell and Benning get dealt this summer. Resign Larsson after Seattle draft if he is not picked (have to use the protected slots on the young guys).

  61. jp says:

    JimmyV1965: This team would be much better today and tomorrow if it traded the Broberg pick for JT Miller. Making trades is part of a hr fabric of building a team.

    Better today, yes. Tomorrow, we don’t know.

    That trade has worked out well for Vancouver but Miller is having a career year. The Canucks traded a 1st and 3rd for a guy who has never scored 25 goals or 60 points in a season (for 4 years of that player). He’s shown himself to be 1st line quality but it wasn’t a sure thing when the trade was made.

    There’s a lot of uncertainty with what Broberg will be (same for the #8 pick before the draft). But there’s a very good chance Broberg is a top 4 D for many years for the Oilers.

    Would you trade a 20 year old Darnell Nurse (and a 3rd) for 4 years of a 26 year old 2nd liner who’s already making over $5M per? Maybe you would. I would’t.

    If nothing else, I’d be a lot less certain that such a trade would make my team better in the medium and long term.

  62. Harpers Hair says:

    jp: Better today, yes. Tomorrow, we don’t know.

    That trade has worked out well for Vancouver but Miller is having a career year. The Canucks traded a 1st and 3rd for a guy who has never scored 25 goals or 60 points in a season (for 4 years of that player). He’s shown himself to be 1st line quality but it wasn’t a sure thing when the trade was made.

    There’s a lot of uncertainty with what Broberg will be (same for the #8 pick before the draft). But there’s a very good chance Broberg is a top 4 D for many years for the Oilers.

    Would you trade a 20 year old Darnell Nurse (and a 3rd) for 4 years of a 26 year old 2nd liner who’s already making over $5M per? Maybe you would. I would’t.

    Vancouver traded what is likely to be around a 15th overall pick (or even worse) for a former 15th overall pick who is fully developed and in his prime both offensively and defensively (he brings a lot more than counting numbers).

    Having a good pro scouting department is paying off for them in that they added Miller, Leivo, Pearson (all top six forwards) in less than a year.

    Benning has made some serious mistakes in free agency but on balance has delivered the goods.

    He has also drafted the next wave of cost controlled forwards in Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden and Lind who are all looking blue chip.

  63. ArmchairGM says:

    I will guess that Holland has decided to offer his second-round pick at the deadline, in hopes he can give the team a push into the playoffs. He might be able to get it back on the draft floor (Puljujarvi) this summer.

    That’s probably a pretty accurate guess, but I would do the opposite. Picks have their lowest value at the deadline and their highest at the draft, so the right move is to trade Puljujarvi at the deadline and the 2nd at the draft.

  64. jp says:

    Harpers Hair: Vancouver traded what is likely to be around a 15th overall pick (or even worse) for a former 15th overall pick who is fully developed and in his prime both offensively and defensively (he brings a lot more than counting numbers).

    Having a good pro scouting department is paying off for them in that they added Miller, Leivo, Pearson (all top six forwards) in less than a year.

    Benning has made some serious mistakes in free agency but on balance has delivered the goods.

    He has also drafted the next wave of cost controlled forwards in Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden and Lind who are all looking blue chip.

    It wasn’t completely unforeseeable but the Miller trade seems to have worked out about as well as it possibly could have for the Canucks.

    And I was responding to “This team would be much better today and tomorrow if it traded the Broberg pick for JT Miller”. Yes, the team would be better today, but quite possibly not so down the road.

  65. jm363561 says:

    Three things that puzzle me in recent threads:

    The argument that you should not trade your first round pick because 2020 is a deep draft. Doesn’t that just mean the pick would have more value should you choose to trade?

    Why repeat the Ryan Strome (who I always liked) experience by spending very limited resources on a 3C when we have no third line wingers of substance? (Get Connor a shooter would be my choice).

    All this discussion about getting a C or a W when, since the Tip reset, we are scoring like crazy (37 goals in eight games) but leaking goals (24 in eight). Actually this doesn’t really puzzle me but it just seems a bit counter intuitive.

  66. Lowetide says:

    New for The Athletic: Is there real trade deadline value in the Edmonton Oilers’ prospect pipeline?

    https://theathletic.com/1562137/2020/01/26/lowetide-is-there-real-trade-deadline-value-in-the-edmonton-oilers-prospect-pipeline/

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    =

    JimmyV1965:
    The Oilers need two forwards. They need two forwards today. They will need two forwards at the start of next season.

    We need to trade wherever it takes to make it happen. However, we are not in the rental market. We must get players with term.

    To make that happen, I would be willing to trade first round picks, prospects, whatever it takes. We have the two best players in the Pacific. The second line appears to be rolling. If we get someone for McDavid and push a couple players down the lineup, this team can make some noise in the playoffs.

    Holland should be hounding the Habs, Wild and Red Wings for wingers. What are we waiting for?

    What are we waiting for?

    Well, firstly we were seeing how the more recent forward addition, Yamamoto, effects the lineup.

    Presumably a similar scenario plays out with Benson.

    From the GM’s mouth, not much happens at this point – like most other teams, the Oilers have their pro scouting meetings this coming week – phones will heat up thereafter.

    Holland wants to wait a bit longer in any event to get a more clear sense of the team’s projected abilities. What’s more “real”, the December Oilers or the January?

    ———————–

    Both Tatar and Danault have one year left of term after this.

    I wish they had more or were UFAs – I’d target both and be willing to be but I can’t pay much for a player that is a UFA in only one year – my general premise of not signing UFA aged forwards for their decline years.

    This will already be happening with Kass shortly.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    I’d be interested in Granlund from Nashville.Seems like a much lower price tags than Kreider for a very skilled player who did not fit in Nash
    If he meshes well you could re-sign him

    That’s an interesting target is Nashville is willing to sell him (if they continue to plunge).

    What would the cost be for him as a UFA rental? I just assume Gagner goes back the other way for cap reasons (which would increase the acquisition cost).

    Assuming Kassian and Nurse re-signings (and Bear), there really is no cap to re-sign Granlund. I’m not even sure there is cap room taking in to account a clean Russell disposition (which is no certainty).

    4 years max in any event given he’ll be 28.

  69. Harpers Hair says:

    jp: It wasn’t completely unforeseeable but the Miller trade seems to have worked out about as well as it possibly could have for the Canucks.

    And I was responding to “This team would be much better today and tomorrow if it traded the Broberg pick for JT Miller”. Yes, the team would be better today, but quite possibly not so down the road.

    The question is..
    How far down the road and would you be willing to wait for the pick tp develop and be as productive as the player you’re trading for?

    Assuming it’s a non lottery pick, that wait is likely to be 3-5 years…if ever.

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja:
    The pacific is wide open if Holland was in year 3 instead of year 1 of his dealthe trigger has been pulled already.

    I don’t agree it has anything to do with “year of his contract” and has everything to do with state of the current team, prospects, organizational depth, cap situation, etc.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    =

    Slocanoil:
    ON used to be a daily read. They’ve ruined their site imo.

    Its unreadable, really is.

    I like to read the comments on there as they are more “lay person” comments than you see on a site like this (which I consider more “Oilers educated”.

  72. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair: The question is..
    How far down the road and would you be willing to wait for the pick tp develop and be as productive as the player you’re trading for?

    Assuming it’s a non lottery pick, that wait is likely to be 3-5 years…if ever.

    It’s more complicated in Edmonton because of the cap situation. Two of the highest paid players in the league, bad drafting & development plus bad contract signings that are still on the books if not on the team seriously affect this team.

    This is not an excuse for inaction but there is a reason why trading a high draft pick for a mature player on a $5 mil contract does not work for the Oilers the same way it would for Colorado or Carolina etc.

    We have not finished paying for the sins of our recent past. 😉

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    Numenius:
    Skills was Friday and game Saturday.

    No, the AHL skills is tonight and the game tomorrow.

  74. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    I find it difficult to understand how/why they would trade a guy like Lagesson without knowing/attempting to determine what he can do at the NHL level.

    I understand logjam and asset management, but wouldn’t we want see Lagesson for at least 20 games in the NHL before we consider moving him?

    Or is he the type of player whose skill level / potential is better left to the imagination of prospective trading partners?

    There is a theory that they like Lagesson more than Jones long term.

    Jones having cost certainty for the next two year at 850K along with a longer NHL track record make him a more attractive trade asset.

    Just a theory I heard.

  75. Numenius says:

    Woodguy v2.0: There is a theory that they like Lagesson more than Jones long term.

    Jones having cost certainty for the next two year at 850K along with a longer NHL track record make him a more attractive trade asset.

    Just a theory I heard.

    Interesting. I wonder if he might go to the Leafs for one of their wingers.

  76. Harpers Hair says:

    defmn: It’s more complicated in Edmonton because of the cap situation. Two of the highest paid players in the league, bad drafting & development plus bad contract signings that are still on the books if not on the team seriously affect this team.

    This is not an excuse for inaction but there is a reason why trading a high draft pick for a mature player on a $5 mil contract does not work for the Oilers the same way it would for Colorado or Carolina etc.

    We have not finished paying for the sins of our recent past.

    While I agree the Oilers self inflicted wounds are serious, Vancouver is no slouch in that department.

    With the corpse of Loui Eriksson at $6 million, the Luongp cap recapture penalty at $3 million and Baertschi in the minors at more than $2 million, they’re over $10 million in dead cap space nevermind the most expensive fourth line in the league.

    But they identified a few players who were blocked on their former teams and actively pursued them.

    The Oilers could do the same with their abundance of D.

    • BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

      I like your candour and largely agree with your assessment. They’ve made some bad signings but some good trades too, which partly mitigate their mistakes.

      Who are some players you’d identify if you had Holland’s ear?

    • Jethro Tull says:

      You troll 😁 Now Vancouver can out Oilers the Oilers on contracts?

      Will you give us nothing?

  77. OriginalPouzar says:

    No surprise from practice today:

    Oilers today:
    Neal-McDavid-Kassian
    RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
    Nygard-Sheahan-Archibald
    Khaira-Haas-Chiasson
    Gagner-P Russell

    Klefbom-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    K.Russell-Jones

    Smith
    Koskinen

    Here is hoping they are practicing how to not take PIM’s in the name of retribution or settling to score. Good hard aggressive hockey – finish checks and get bangs in – cause turnovers, capitalize and get a regulation win.

  78. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Excellent.

    JimmyV1965: I get the strategy of trading Kassian, Larssonand Russel, but would you actually do this for draft picks? Trade them to improve the team, not embark on a perpetual rebuild.

    It’s entirely possible that trading Kassian, Larsson and Russell makes the team better while also adding assets.

    I’m not sold that moving Larsson today does that as I assume Bouchard/Benning is the replacement and today I have them both below Larsson.

    They other two are fine to move as they don’t move the needle for their linemates and are not cheap vis a vis the roles they fill.

  79. Munny says:

    LT said…

    William Lagesson has to be traded before fall and waivers at the start of the 2020 season.

    ________________________

    The odds of Lagesson getting plucked off waivers during TC2020, while 300 or so other prospects are also being waived, aren’t infinitesimal, but they are pretty small. I doubt it is creating any concern or urgency in the GM’s office.

  80. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Numenius: Interesting. I wonder if he might go to the Leafs for one of their wingers.

    TOR is aiming at the the top of their Dcorps, not where Jones currently fits.

  81. Harpers Hair says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Excellent.

    It’s entirely possible that trading Kassian, Larsson and Russell makes the team better while also adding assets.

    I’m not sold that moving Larsson today does that as I assume Bouchard/Benning is the replacement and today I have them both below Larsson.

    They other two are fine to move as they don’t move the needle for their linemates and are not cheap vis a vis the roles they fill.

    Would you trade Larsson for Kapanen?

    • Woodguy v2.0 says:

      Yes.

      Today.

      But if I do that I don’t move Russell this season.

      Either he is top 4 RD or he’s the backup for that spot if Bouchard can’t do it today.

  82. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t agree it has anything to do with “year of his contract” and has everything to do with state of the current team, prospects, organizational depth, cap situation, etc.

    The first 1 or 2 years of a Holland’s tenure ( The plan) is a grace period. By year 3 you better be winning especially with the likes of Connor and Leon or else the knifes will be out.This team is close Holland knows that he’s just biding his time.

  83. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    There is a sound logic to that.

    Good skating, puck moving defensemen are in vogue these days.

    Wild Bill has other qualities they may value in the context of building a roster.

    With Bouchard coming up (likely) next year, we’d have a puck mover per line in Kelf, Bear and Bouchard possibly making Jones the best trade chip.

    What would you ballpark Jones’ trade value to be, either at the upcoming deadline or draft? Could he alone be enough to return a decent 3C or top-6 winger?

    • Woodguy v2.0 says:

      I think he might be enough with a lower pick to get a rental that usually goes for a much higher pick.

      I think Holland can package him with a pick instead to get a guy who would go for 1st instead of a first which I think is good business depending on the return.

      If you can do Jones + 2nd for Pageau instead of a first I think that’s good business as you can test drive Pageau and he can test drive EDM.

  84. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    If you don’t listen to the PDOcast with Dimitri Filapovich you should. It’s good.

    His recent episode with Kevin Woodly from In Goal magazine is so, so good.

    Reset my own thoughts on a few players to and is full of good stuff.

    Also learned that In Goal has their own podcast and will start to listen to a lot of that as well.

    Those podcast are available for free. I use a free account at Spotify.

  85. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: Would you trade Larsson for Kapanen?

    Larsson and a 4th for Ehlers it’s a win win for both teams. Bring up Bouchard and let’s start pounding teams on the scoreboard.

  86. Munny says:

    speeds: By no means do I expect Holland to do this, but what would the immediate in-market reaction be if EDM were to trade all of Kassian, Larsson, and Russell prior to the deadline and say:

    Good to see you post, Mike!

    I think trading Larsson with a playoff push pending would be viewed as a head-scratcher, trading Kass would have bad fan optics, but should be survivable depending on the return, and trading KRusty (with term and an NTC) damn near impossible and would be welcomed as a huge win by all market denizens. Not as big as off-loading Looch for the Real Deal, but in the same ballpark.

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    I found this to be a solid summary from Cam Lewis at Oilers Nation summarizing the sched:

    Six crucial four-point games against Pacific Division rivals (3 vs CGY, 2 vs VGK, 1 vs ARZ).

    Eight games against Central Division teams pushing for wild card positions that could possibly become four-point games (2 vs NSH, 2 vs CHI, 2 vs WPG, 1 vs MIN).

    Seven games against bottom feeders (3 vs ANA, 2 vs SJS, 1 vs LAK, 1 vs OTT).

    Five games against elite teams (2 vs TBL, 1 vs WSH, 1 vs BOS, 1 vs STL).

    Seven other games against playoff-calibre teams without a head-to-head relationship in the standings (1 vs FLA, CAR, CBJ, PHI, NYI, COL, DAL).

  88. Munny says:

    What happens if the Oilers trade their 3rd rounder before the trade condition vests?

    Firstly are they allowed to do so, or is that pick in “escrow”?

    Because if it is not tied down, I trade it, I’m assuming the condition then devolves to the first available 3rd rounder, thus I’m delaying the Turtles’ gratification for a year.

    #shellgame

    • Gerta Rauss says:

      I think your “escrow” comment is accurate – the league has to sign off on every trade and I really doubt they’d approve a trade of the 3rd rounder considering the condition is likely to vest (2 more goals in the last 33 games)

      On an unrelated note, I notice that Capfriendly has been updated recently regarding the Oilers 7th round pick and the 2018 trade for Nolan Vesey. Apparently the condition was related to games played at the NHL level, of which Vesey did not meet, so the Oilers will keep their 7th round pick this year

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    Flames have recalled the 28 year old Buddy Robinson – he’s looked good in the games I’ve seen against the Heat but so does the similar aged Brad Malone for context.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny:
    What happens if the Oilers trade their 3rd rounder before the trade condition vests?

    Firstly are they allowed to do so, or is that pick in “escrow”?

    Because if it is not tied down, I trade it,I’m assuming the condition then devolves to the first available 3rd rounder, thus I’m delaying the Turtles’ gratification for a year.

    #shellgame

    Not allowed to trade it. Pick is held.

  91. JimmyV1965 says:

    jp: Better today, yes. Tomorrow, we don’t know.

    That trade has worked out well for Vancouver but Miller is having a career year. The Canucks traded a 1st and 3rd for a guy who has never scored 25 goals or 60 points in a season (for 4 years of that player). He’s shown himself to be 1st line quality but it wasn’t a sure thing when the trade was made.

    There’s a lot of uncertainty with what Broberg will be (same for the #8 pick before the draft). But there’s a very good chance Broberg is a top 4 D for many years for the Oilers.

    Would you trade a 20 year old Darnell Nurse (and a 3rd) for 4 years of a 26 year old 2nd liner who’s already making over $5M per? Maybe you would. I would’t.

    If nothing else, I’d be a lot less certain that such a trade would make my team better in the medium and long term.

    Miller is a legit top six winger. He was when the Canucks traded for him. He helped their team immediately. We don’t know if Broberg will ever be a top four dmen. And if he does become a top four dman, it will be five years from now. If we sit around waiting for prospects to develop, the players on the roster now could get frustrated.

  92. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Munny,

    CapFriendly has an asterisk on the pick noting it’s conditional, so I’d assume that (as you say) it’s in escrow.

  93. ArmchairGM says:

    Munny:
    What happens if the Oilers trade their 3rd rounder before the trade condition vests?

    Firstly are they allowed to do so, or is that pick in “escrow”?

    Because if it is not tied down, I trade it,I’m assuming the condition then devolves to the first available 3rd rounder, thus I’m delaying the Turtles’ gratification for a year.

    #shellgame

    Easier way out of trading the 3rd is to trade Neal while he’s stuck on 19 goals! 😁

  94. leadfarmer says:

    Please be curteous to others on the site and if you want to engage in riveting daily discussion of the Canucks with the resident troll please use the second reply button that is located under the quote button. Thank you

  95. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Flames have recalled the 28 year old Buddy Robinson – he’s looked good in the games I’ve seen against the Heat but so does the similar aged Brad Malone for context.

    He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

  96. Lowetide says:

    Munny:
    What happens if the Oilers trade their 3rd rounder before the trade condition vests?

    Firstly are they allowed to do so, or is that pick in “escrow”?

    Because if it is not tied down, I trade it,I’m assuming the condition then devolves to the first available 3rd rounder, thus I’m delaying the Turtles’ gratification for a year.

    #shellgame

    The league wouldn’t approve any trade involving that pick until the conditions on the pick are satisfied.

  97. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

    Don’t worry Oilers will be fine the refs will turn up doing their job…because that’s their job…

  98. duct tape and foil says:

    Sure trading Larsson for Kapanen is solid value. But what happens when Bear gets hurt? This is when (not if) for all dmen. Who is your 1RD? We’ve been real lucky this year aside from Lars breaking his leg in G1. Why destroy our depth after it’s taken so long to build it up? I’d be perfectly happy to go into next years with

    Klef Lars
    Nurse Bear
    Laggeson Jones Bouchard

    Benning and Russell are the guys you deal this summer and we need a clean removal of the Russell contract. Should not be too hard with only $1.5 in real money owed after his last bonus.

  99. leadfarmer says:

    Lowetide: He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

    Guessing its related to playing the oilers twice next week.

  100. Munny says:

    Gerta Rauss,

    OriginalPouzar,

    ArmchairGM,

    Thanks, Gents. I suspected so, since teams would be screwing other teams left and right if this option was available.

    Apologies for the whimsy. Every so often a young (ha!) man’s mind (ha! again) turn to important things like, what new and improved ways can we find to extinguish the fire that dimly flickers in the Flames’ souls?

    Or, just screw with them a bit.

    Y’know… Happy Thoughts.

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    Rodrigue with the 18 save shutout today.

    Lavoie held off the sheet for the 2nd straight game – also -2 with zero shots in a 6-1 loss

  102. duct tape and foil says:

    Lowetide: He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

    So much for calming things down. Paging Mr Peluso, you have a call from Edmonton.

  103. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Rodrigue with the 18 save shutout today.

    Lavoie held off the sheet for the 2nd straight game – also -2 with zero shots in a 6-1 loss

    Bust!

  104. OriginalPouzar says:

    John Chambers:
    Hypothetically, if the Oilers didn’t have Kassian and had a 3rd round pick to trade, I think you’d be over the moon if we acquired Kassian at that price and watched him produce alongside 97 for a playoff run.

    What does trading Kassian signal to Connor McDavid other than all he re-hab was for nought and that management is insane?

    Would a pending UFA Kassian be worth a 3rd round pick in that instance?

    Tough to say based off his previous career history.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: I get the strategy of trading Kassian, Larssonand Russel, but would you actually do this for draft picks? Trade them to improve the team, not embark on a perpetual rebuild.

    Larsson can be traded in a hockey trade to potentially improve the team. Something like Larsson for Kapanen – it may improve the team – it may not.

    Kassian can’t be traded to improve the team – he’s a pending UFA, a rental – a team acquiring Kassian is looking to improve their roster and it would be a pick/prospect coming back.

    Russell can’t be traded to improve the team – I think teams would be interested in acquiring the player, however, as we know, his contract provides negative value.

    Of course, there is no “selling” – Holland has said that he won’t be a seller – he may or may not be a buyer, but won’t be a seller – his verbal.

    Of course, if the team loses then next 6 games, that could change, but that’s not expected.

  106. OriginalPouzar says:

    John Chambers:
    I’d like to do a deal with Montreal. They are headed for a re-build and they have wingers.

    Tatar is producing like a first-line player and it seems we need better than James Neal alongside McDavid. A top-line LW is our most pressing need, IMO.

    Benson can play 3LW with Neal on the right side.

    As I’ve mentioned, Tatar and Danault are two players that I like on that roster but their contracts are issues.

    They each have one full year left until UFA so, they won’t be cheap as a rental, Bergevin will want value back.

    On the other hand, how much value can the Oiler pay for one season and a bit? Of course, re-signing either to their UFA declining 30s contract is not great on its face. Maybe for 3-4 years but that’s rare.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    Boys looking good:

    https://twitter.com/Condors/status/1221577714764615681

    I was going to watch on my AHL TV membership but i think the AHL-skills is actually on TSN2.

  108. Dicky94 says:

    duct tape and foil,

    I am hoping more for a Miles Wood trade before Wednesday. Eric Francis seems to think Kassian has to fight Lucic and Tkachuk get someone more in his weight class like Archie. Wood is a perfect match for The Turtle.

  109. Munny says:

    Dicky94,

    Seriously?

    Kassian is 6′ 3″ 211 lbs
    Tkachuk is 6′ 2″ 202 lbs.
    Archie is 5′ 10″ 176 lbs.

    Apologies if you’re joking, but if Francis is serious, then the legalization of weed must’ve been a life-changer for him.

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    The 26 year old (27 this spring) Josh Leivo has 19 points this year, surpassing his previous career high of 18 points – that’s a pretty borderline top 6 forward to use as an example to rave about pro scouting.

  111. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: There is a theory that they like Lagesson more than Jones long term.

    Jones having cost certainty for the next two year at 850K along with a longer NHL track record make him a more attractive trade asset.

    Just a theory I heard.

    How does that theory jive with Jones playing NHL games in the playoff push and Lagesson playing in the AHL (or Lagesson sitting in the press box for three weeks while Brandon Manning plays 8 straight NHL games)?

  112. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Kassian can’t be traded to improve the team – he’s a pending UFA, a rental – a team acquiring Kassian is looking to improve their roster and it would be a pick/prospect coming back.

    Not necessarily true – Pittsburgh is looking to trade Galchenyuk, for instance, he might be an upgrade in skill level even as he lacks the physicality that Kassian brings.

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Larsson and a 4th for Ehlers it’s a win win for both teams. Bring up Bouchard and let’s start pounding teams on the scoreboard.

    Bouchard, this year?

    You can’t be serious, can you?

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

    Yup – if the flames want to call up career AHLers in the name of toughness and pugivitiness – I’m all for it.

    I just hope the Oilers are focussed on playing hockey on Wednesday night – from all the verbal, McDavid using the words “settle the score”, I’m not confident they are.

    The coach needs to coach on this.

  115. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Bouchard, this year?

    You can’t be serious, can you?

    Yes I am and quit calling me serious.

  116. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Russell can’t be traded to improve the team – I think teams would be interested in acquiring the player, however, as we know, his contract provides negative value.

    Again, a hockey trade for a player with similar value at a different position might work – say Darren Helm for 3C, for instance.

  117. Reja says:

    duct tape and foil: So much for calming things down. Paging Mr Peluso, you have a call from Edmonton.

    He can afford the suspension for the Flames and some folks want to trade Kass for a third round pick. Tippett better dress JJ and tell him to get his thumb out of his ass because the BOA is back baby.

  118. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Flames have recalled the 28 year old Buddy Robinson – he’s looked good in the games I’ve seen against the Heat but so does the similar aged Brad Malone for context.

    Is Kassian going to refuse a fight with a AHLer? What if the AHLer doesn’t take no for an answer and starts swinging away?

    Or does Kassian say that he doesn’t have to answer for beating up Tkachuk?

    That is the trouble with talking big Zack.

  119. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The 26 year old (27 this spring) Josh Leivo has 19 points this year, surpassing his previous career high of 18 points – that’s a pretty borderline top 6 forward to use as an example to rave about pro scouting.

    Zack Kassians career high is 28 points and he’s almost 30.

    Is he a top 6 winger ?

  120. godot10 says:

    ArmchairGM: Not necessarily true – Pittsburgh is looking to trade Galchenyuk, for instance, he might be an upgrade in skill level even as he lacks the physicality that Kassian brings.

    Kassian, Starrett, and Manning/Gagner for Galchenyuk, a 3Rd, and DeSmith

  121. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    I posted the 5v5 “McDavid On/Off” with the monthly splits a few days ago.

    Wanted to flesh that out to: McDavid On, 2nd Line On, Bottom 6 On.

    The one wrench in all that is that there is 112min that Draisaitl was on, but not with McDavid or RNH.

    There was only 26 min that RNH and McDavid were together without Drai so the other bit must have been when Tippett was running 3 Cs and when RNH was injured. Lots happened (most of it bad) during that time so I had to account for it with its own row.

    To account for the above I have 4 results rows:

    1) McDavid On. Tthis includes time with Drai and/or RNH. They are 2-1 in goals in 4:31 when all 3 are together. 67%! Woot!.

    2) RNH On. This includes time with Drai, but not with McDavid.

    3) Drai Alone. This is only when Drai is without either RNH or McDavid.

    4) Bottom 6. This is all 3 of the above Off. This is basically the bottom 6 or so close to the bottom 6 it doesn’t matter.

    The vast majority of McDavid’s TOI from Oct to the end of Dec is with Drai.

    All that being said, here are the splits by month:

    OCTOBER
    McDavid On (17-7) 71%
    RNH On (7-4) 64%
    Drai Alone (0-2) 0%
    Bottom 6 (1-12) 8%
    Total (25-25) 50%

    This is when I was screaming from the rooftops to replace Sheahan as he was (0-7) 0% this month. Oy!

    NOVEMBER
    McDavid On (16-16) 50%
    RNH On (3-6) 33%
    Drai Alone (1-0) 100%
    Bottom 6 (12-12) 50%
    Total (32-34) 48%

    The end of Nov is when the goalering and 97 & 29 started to wobble.

    Bottom 6 rebounds in a big way.

    RNH wobbles.

    DECEMBER
    McDavid On (9-15) 33%
    RNH On (2-8) 20%
    Drai Alone (1-8) 11%
    Bottom 6 (6-7) 46%
    Total (18-38) 32%

    Smith sucked! Drai hits the ditch!! RNH hurt!! MASS HYSTERIA! (/Peter Venkman voice)

    Bottom 6 which was awful not 2 months ago was “the good minutes”. Wow.

    2nd month in a row at or near 50% after sucking slough water in Oct.

    McDavid was (2-14) 13% with Drai and (7-1) 88% away from Drai in December. I have no idea why he (Drai) went so far off the rails.

    McDavid hasn’t faltered one bit this year imo.

    JANUARY
    McDavid On (6-4) 60%
    RNH On (7-1) 88%
    Drai Alone (0-1) 0%
    Bottom 6 (7-7) 50%
    Total (20-12) 61%

    Lots going on here.

    McDavid is without Drai for the month (Tippett separated them Dec 31st vs the Rags) They played 6:21 together in Jan (getting outscored 1-0, natch)

    McDavid is 3-2 with Kassian and 3-2 without Kassian.

    The fact that McDavid is beating his minutes mostly with a mix of Neal, Kassian and Archibald is mind blowing. He’s so, so, so, so, so good.

    RNH getting good help and Drai getting good help away from McDavid is so important to this team. Add to this Yamo + a PDO heater and the results have been great.

    Bottom 6 go 50% for the 2nd time. Month isn’t over though…..

    SEASON:
    McDavid On (48-42) 53%
    RNH On (19-19) 50%
    Drai Alone (2-11) 15%
    Bottom 6 (26-38) 41%
    Total (95-110) 46%

    This is why I’m bullish on the rest of the season if health holds.

    RNH-Drai won’t continue to destroy worlds but they should win their minutes. Yamo has been big here, but bigger is that both Drai and RNH need high end help and they do that for each other.

    Bottom 6 is (25-26) 49% since Nov 1.

    Lots of good teams (who do well in the playoffs) have a bottom 6 that goes 49% if the top 2 lines beat their minutes (I’ve looked at every team in every season in this detail since 07/08)

    EDM also has the best player to lace em up since Lemieux playing almost a period 5v5 per night.

    That’s handy.

  122. Reja says:

    godot10: Is Kassian going to refuse a fight with a AHLer?What if the AHLer doesn’t take no for an answer and starts swinging away?

    Or does Kassian say that he doesn’t have to answer for beating up Tkachuk?

    That is the trouble with talking big Zack.

    If Nurse wants the big dough maybe it’s time he stepped up to the plate.

  123. Johnny skid says:

    Reja: If Nurse wants the big dough maybe it’s time he stepped up to the plate.

    do you remember a time when Nurse did not step up to the plate?

  124. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Harpers Hair: Zack Kassians career high is 28 points and he’s almost 30.

    Is he a top 6 winger ?

    OH SNAP!

    (or whatever the kids say these days)

  125. Reja says:

    Johnny skid: do you remember a time when Nurse did not step up to the plate?

    I Still see Gio stuttering around like the cock on the block after he took out our captain.

  126. Todd Macallan says:

    Benson put on a show in the rapid shot skills challenge. Picked some wicked corners, scored on 3 of 5, more than any shooter for the goalie drill.

    Bouch goes bar down in the hardest shot hahaha, 100.4 mph. Next one is 103!

    Edit: Frk wins with 109.2, holy.

  127. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bouch’s first shot – 100.2 mph

    Bouch’s second shot – the fifth fasted ever – didn’t see the speed clearly but I think it was 102.3.

    The much talked about Brogan Rafferty:

    – 92.8
    – 97.8

    I guess he redeemed himself from falling in the puck relay earlier…….

  128. OriginalPouzar says:

    duct tape and foil:
    Sure trading Larsson for Kapanen is solid value. But what happens when Bear gets hurt? This is when (not if) for all dmen. Who is your 1RD? We’ve been real lucky this year aside from Lars breaking his leg in G1. Why destroy our depth after it’s taken so long to build it up?I’d be perfectly happy to go into next years with

    Klef Lars
    Nurse Bear
    Laggeson Jones Bouchard

    Benning and Russell are the guys you deal this summer and we need a clean removal of the Russell contract. Should not be too hard with only $1.5 in real money owed after his last bonus.

    The clean disposition of K. Russell is primary this off-season but I think it may me MUCH harder than you think. Sure, $1.5M of real cash to be paid is a plus but, at the end of the day, the $4M cap hit is the $4M cap hit and, as we’ve seen this year, cap space is a huge asset for most teams – most teams are up or over the cap.

    I’m sure owners will always want to spend less real cash but there are very few teams actively looking for big cap hits relative to cash outlay for cap reasons.

  129. Johnny skid says:

    Reja: I Still see Gio stutteringaround like the cock on the block after he took out our captain.

    i’m sure if Nurse felt it was a cheap shot like you do he would have stood up for his captain.

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    Whoa, after almost every player in the low 90s, sometimes mid-90s, Ferk goes 104 and then 109.

    Geezus…… record.

  131. OriginalPouzar says:

    Previous record was Chara at 108.8.

  132. OriginalPouzar says:

    duct tape and foil: So much for calming things down. Paging Mr Peluso, you have a call from Edmonton.

    I’m quite happy the flames are calling up career AHLer in their late 20s in the name of toughness.

    Peluso doesn’t even have an NHL contract and, even if he did, leave him right where he is, in the AHL.

    Efff “settling the score” – let the flames “run around” and take PIMs – get the 2 points, in regulation.

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Not necessarily true – Pittsburgh is looking to trade Galchenyuk, for instance, he might be an upgrade in skill level even as he lacks the physicality that Kassian brings.

    Fair enough in premise – rental for rental.

    Don’t think that particular trade makes the Oilers better heading in to crunch time – even with the higher “skill”.

  134. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Yes I am and quit calling me serious.

    That would be a poor decision, in my opinion, on the GMs part. Of course, would go 100% against his track record so I’m not overly concerned.

  135. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Bouch’s first shot – 100.2 mph

    Bouch’s second shot – the fifth fasted ever – didn’t see the speed clearly but I think it was 102.3.

    The much talked about Brogan Rafferty:

    – 92.8
    – 97.8

    I guess he redeemed himself from falling in the puck relay earlier…….

    If only slap shots from the point were an important part of the game.

  136. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    OriginalPouzar: How does that theory jive with Jones playing NHL games in the playoff push and Lagesson playing in the AHL (or Lagesson sitting in the press box for three weeks while Brandon Manning plays 8 straight NHL games)?

    Showcasing /advertising) Jones for trade
    Letting Lags get paid a bit more to keep him happy and get him familiar with nhl routine

  137. duct tape and foil says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thanks for that. The bottom 6 holding their own since Nov 1 was my impression but nice to have it backed up by numbers. If McDavid can continue to score with Neal and Kass, Drai can make hay with RNH and Yamo, and Shea/Ny/Arch keep going, all we have to do is tinker with L3.

    I’d call up Benson, and play him with Haas and Chase to start. If he does well, then I’d experiment with him on McDavid line. Really want Bonino for 3C though (since he has another year on his contract) and wonder if Nashville does JP and Russell.

  138. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: That would be a poor decision, in my opinion, on the GMs part.Of course, would go 100% against his track record so I’m not overly concerned.

    I love Larsson but if I can grab the dynamic Ehlers I do it.

  139. OriginalPouzar says:

    Parayko has missed the last 7 games but he’ll be back for the Blues tomorrow (and Edmonton later in the week).

  140. duct tape and foil says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’m quite happy the flames are calling up career AHLer in their late 20s in the name of toughness.

    Peluso doesn’t even have an NHL contract and, even if he did, leave him right where he is, in the AHL.

    Efff “settling the score” – let the flames “run around” and take PIMs – get the 2 points, in regulation.

    I was joking and mostly agree. If some goon wants to fight Kass (or even Looch wants to go) I would have Kass just point to the bench, or where ever Tkachuk is, and say only him. Nobody else gets that dance card. Even if Tkachuk wants to go, if I’m Kass I pop my lid, then dare him to do it. If he doesn’t then skate to the bench. Tkachuk is going to try weasel out of this and you drag it out as much as possible to effect his game and shrink his already pea-sized balls.

  141. Todd Macallan says:

    I am liking the dark navy/orange Condors jerseys the boys are rocking at the Ahl skills comp tonight

  142. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Lowetide: He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

    With body checks or his fists??

  143. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Buddy Robinson

    Lowetide: He’s 6.06 and hits like a truck

    73pts in his last 105 AHL games for 0.70/gm which is nothing to sneeze at.

    High-ish PIMs, but not “fighter high”, although he probably does fight occasionally.

    With that size and those point totals my guess is that he can’t skate at the NHL level.

    If he could he’d be there.

  144. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    duct tape and foil:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thanks for that. The bottom 6 holding their own since Nov 1 was my impression but nice to have it backed up by numbers. If McDavid can continue to score with Neal and Kass, Drai can make hay with RNH and Yamo, and Shea/Ny/Arch keep going, all we have to do is tinker with L3.

    I’d call up Benson, and play him with Haas and Chase to start. If he does well, then I’d experiment with him on McDavid line. Really want Bonino for 3C though (since he has another year on his contract) and wonder if Nashville does JP and Russell.

    You’re welcome. Glad those posts get read.

    I am of the opinon that if McDavid plays with An Actual NHL Top 6 Talent he might crack 60% GF on a regular basis and that covers a lot of team sins.

    He and Drai fell apart and I think it was because they tried to pass to each other too often and seemed to be confused on who F1 was (they both did flybys the slot a little too often, and didn’t seem to worry about picking up their check, but Drai was much worse)

    It seems that both Drai and McDavid have been coached up by Tippett in this respect and are both doing better.

    I don’t necessarily want them back together, but McDavid really needs some skill on his line.

    The amount of scoring opportunities he creates that get missed and plays that die with his wingers is soul crushing when they lose.

    Weakest spot today (as LT showed) is Neal at LW so I agree Benson should get some time there before Holland decides to spend on that spot.

    Upgrading both RW and LW would be great.

  145. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: The clean disposition of K. Russell is primary this off-season but I think it may me MUCH harder than you think.Sure, $1.5M of real cash to be paid is a plus but, at the end of the day, the $4M cap hit is the $4M cap hit and, as we’ve seen this year, cap space is a huge asset for most teams – most teams are up or over the cap.

    I’m sure owners will always want to spend less real cash but there are very few teams actively looking for big cap hits relative to cash outlay for cap reasons.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if they move Larsson and keep Russell this summer.

    They cost near the same and Larsson can bring back a decent player.

    They’d keep Russell around for “top 4 RD” insurance if Bouchard couldn’t do it (I’m assuming they plug Bouchard in there, but its a reasonable assumption)

  146. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    duct tape and foil: if I’m Kass I pop my lid

    Taking off your helmet is 2min unsportsmanlike penalty.

    Doesn’t mean I would surprised if Kassian did it though………

  147. Harpers Hair says:

    A few notes before the Stretch Sprint ® gets underway.

    As OP has noted, Parayko is returning from injury for St. Louis.

    Stephen Johns will be back with Dallas after scoring 4 points in a two game conditioning stint in the AHL. This makes their D even more formidable.

    Darcy Kuemper and Antti Raanta are now healthy for the stretch drive for Arizona.

    Michael Ferland has been practising with the Canucks. No idea how effective he will be.

    Brian Little expected back shortly for the Jets.

    William Karlsson and Cody Glass expected to play after the break.

    • leadfarmer says:

      Dont be silly
      Antti Raanta is never healthy

      Are you expecting points from Johns?
      Preventing goals is not an issue. Doesnt help them scoring goals

      St. Louis is in their own league so it doesnt concern us.

      Arizona made the mistake of thinking 935 sp was the team and bought on Hall who is their only first line player. If they dont get 935 sp back they will be selling him

      Ferland is a walking concussion and a near future buyout.
      Jets only go as far as they one goaler takes them

  148. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    73pts in his last 105 AHL games for 0.70/gm which is nothing to sneeze at.

    High-ish PIMs, but not “fighter high”, although he probably does fight occasionally.

    With that size and those point totals my guess is that he can’t skate at the NHL level.

    If he could he’d be there.

    So much for behave yourselves boys the league will be watching.
    Expecting a lot of Gladiator are you not entertained memes.
    The world record for penalty minutes in a game is 871. In NHL its 419. How close will we get?

    https://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/5/13845436/sweden-junior-hockey-teams-871-penalty-minutes-in-one-game-nhl-record

  149. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Again,a hockey trade for a player with similar value at a different position might work – say Darren Helm for 3C, for instance.

    That type of trade seems highly unlikely to me. In that particular proposal, I don’t see Rusty waiving his clause.

  150. Harpers Hair says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    73pts in his last 105 AHL games for 0.70/gm which is nothing to sneeze at.

    High-ish PIMs, but not “fighter high”, although he probably does fight occasionally.

    With that size and those point totals my guess is that he can’t skate at the NHL level.

    If he could he’d be there.

    There’s more to Buddy Robinson than meets the eye.

    He’s described as a good skater and is a childhood friend of Gaudreau who was instrumental in getting Robinson into the Calgary system.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/flames-robinson-hopes-achieve-dream-playing-bff-gaudreau/

  151. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Zack Kassians career high is 28 points and he’s almost 30.

    Is he a top 6 winger ?

    Many say no but what does that have to do with your post.

    You used the player as an example of the team’s great pro scouting finding these top 6 players for cheap.

    Whether Kassian is a legit top 6 winger has nothing to do with your incorrectly used example.

    Tough night for Rafferty at the skills………

    • Harpers Hair says:

      Rafferty missed the last four Comets games with an injury.
      Understandable.
      I’m surprised he showed up.

  152. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: If only slap shots from the point were an important part of the game.

    If only age mattered when discussing prospects….

  153. OriginalPouzar says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Showcasing /advertising) Jones for trade
    Letting Lags get paid a bit more to keep him happy and get him familiar with nhl routine

    I think Holland and Tippett are focussed on winning games as opposed to showcasing depth d-men for trades.

  154. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Many say no but what does that have to do with your post.

    You used the player as an example of the team’s great pro scouting finding these top 6 players for cheap.

    Whether Kassian is a legit top 6 winger has nothing to do with your incorrectly used example.

    Tough night for Rafferty at the skills………

    Leivo was on pace for more than 40 points when injured.

    Opportunity is a thing.

  155. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: I love Larsson but if I can grab the dynamic Ehlers I do it.

    I was talking about the Bouchard call-up.

  156. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Larsson can be traded in a hockey trade to potentially improve the team. Something like Larsson for Kapanen – it may improve the team – it may not.

    Kassian can’t be traded to improve the team – he’s a pending UFA, a rental – a team acquiring Kassian is looking to improve their roster and it would be a pick/prospect coming back.

    Russell can’t be traded to improve the team – I think teams would be interested in acquiring the player, however, as we know, his contract provides negative value.

    Of course, there is no “selling” – Holland has said that he won’t be a seller – he may or may not be a buyer, but won’t be a seller – his verbal.

    Of course, if the team loses then next 6 games, that could change, but that’s not expected.

    If we trade roster players for picks, it’s like we’re giving up on the season. Imagine the reaction from players if Kassian is traded for a late second round pick. Geez, that would be ugly.

  157. leadfarmer says:

    Yawn
    Top top pp TOI per game guys get 4 min and they eat up all the pp min
    Canucks guys get 4 min plus
    And Leivo gets 2 min
    The amount of pp time they get is absurd

  158. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: You’re welcome.Glad those posts get read.

    I am of the opinon that if McDavid plays with An Actual NHL Top 6 Talent he might crack 60% GF on a regular basis and that covers a lot of team sins.

    He and Drai fell apart and I think it was because they tried to pass to each other too often and seemed to be confused on who F1 was (they both did flybys the slot a little too often, and didn’t seem to worry about picking up their check, but Drai was much worse)

    It seems that both Drai and McDavid have been coached up by Tippett in this respect and are both doing better.

    I don’t necessarily want them back together, but McDavid really needs some skill on his line.

    The amount of scoring opportunities he creates that get missed and plays that die with his wingers is soul crushing when they lose.

    Weakest spot today (as LT showed) is Neal at LW so I agree Benson should get some time there before Holland decides to spend on that spot.

    Upgrading both RW and LW would be great.

    +1000

  159. Harpers Hair says:

    leadfarmer:
    Leivos pp time a game is 30 seconds or less than guys like Seguin and Barzal

    Really?

    Leivo’s PP TOI/game is 228th in the league at 1:51

    But carry on.

    https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2020_skaters-time-on-ice.html

  160. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: If we trade roster players for picks, it’s like we’re giving up on the season. Imagine the reaction from players if Kassian is traded for a late second round pick. Geez, that would be ugly.

    Of course it would but, of course, its not going to happen.

    Holland said straight up we aren’t selling – we may not be buying but we won’t be selling.

    Anything short of a collapse and we won’t be selling.

    We actually have lots to sell if we were out of it – not high end but Kass would get a solid return, Archie and Sheahan would have a bit of value for middling picks. Not sure Haas or Nygard would get much but the other three.

  161. jp says:

    Harpers Hair: There’s more to Buddy Robinson than meets the eye.

    He’s described as a good skater and is a childhood friend of Gaudreau who was instrumental in getting Robinson into the Calgary system.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/flames-robinson-hopes-achieve-dream-playing-bff-gaudreau/

    Why do you figure it took him 1.5+ yrs in the Flames system to get a call to the bigs?

  162. jp says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I posted the 5v5 “McDavid On/Off” with the monthly splits a few days ago..

    Bottom 6 is (25-26) 49% since Nov 1.

    Lots of good teams (who do well in the playoffs) have a bottom 6 that goes 49% if the top 2 lines beat their minutes (I’ve looked at every team in every season in this detail since 07/08)

    EDM also has the best player to lace em up since Lemieux playing almost a period 5v5 per night.

    That’s handy.

    I agree that

    xx-McDavid-xx
    Nuge-Draisaitl-Yamamoto

    Should be able to keep winning their minutes.

    I posted similar stuff this week on the bottom 6 holding their own since Nov 1. The question is can they keep it up? Is this real?

    I still find it difficult to believe/accept after 2.5 months. What’s your take? Do you think it’s real?

  163. jp says:

    Woodguy v2.0: There is a theory that they like Lagesson more than Jones long term.

    Jones having cost certainty for the next two year at 850K along with a longer NHL track record make him a more attractive trade asset.

    Just a theory I heard.

    Any more you can give us on this? (sorry if you elaborated at some point and I missed it).

    A somewhat reputable source? Or true speculation/theory?

    Fascinating, and a ton of implications if there’s any truth to the theory.

  164. jp says:

    JimmyV1965: Miller is a legit top six winger. He was when the Canucks traded for him. He helped their team immediately. We don’t know if Broberg will ever be a top four dmen. And if he does become a top four dman, it will be five years from now. If we sit around waiting for prospects to develop, the players on the roster now could get frustrated.

    I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said (though Broberg *could* be a top 4 D sooner than that).

    But trading a potential 10 year solution for 4 years of a top 6 winger isn’t always a good decision.

  165. BillyTheKidRanford says:

    If they call up Benson, likely not for a game or two, what are your thoughts on these lines….Unicorns
    Neal-McD-Kass
    Nygard-Draisaitl-Yamo
    Benson-Nuge-Archie
    JJ/Haas-She-Chiass/Gags

    Never really played with lines before however this could give us some depth and allow Benson to break in on the third line with skill…

    Let me hear your thoughts…..no need to hear your thoughts Godot….Kassian plays way too high up here and he is being zoomed by 97…
    Got it!

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    From yesterday post
    LT suggestedlineup
    Joakim Nygard—Connor McDavid—Josh Archibald
    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins—Leon Draisaitl—Kailer Yamamoto
    Jujhar Khaira—Gaetan Haas—Zack Kassian
    Tyler Benson—Riley Sheahan—Alex Chiasson/Sam Gagner

    I agree with trying the first 2 lines. I was thinking similar in a post last week Speed on that first line would be a real handful for opposing D! 2nd line is humming along right now. Don’t fix what ain’t broke.

    I would suggest Benson up to 3 (with a few shifts at 1LW after a few games. JJ down to 4 and possibly rotate Neal on 4RW with some power play time. See if that works and/or motivates Neal. if not Chia in for Neal.
    Waive Gag
    Keep Russell up

    See what Besnon does for 9 games then make trade decisions

    See how Kass plays on (mostly) 3RW over this stretch before finalizing the next contract.

    • GordieHoweHatTrick says:

      BillyTheKidRanford:
      If they call up Benson, likely not for a game or two,what are your thoughts on these lines….Unicorns
      Neal-McD-Kass
      Nygard-Draisaitl-Yamo
      Benson-Nuge-Archie
      JJ/Haas-She-Chiass/Gags

      Never really played with lines before however this could give us some depth and allow Benson to break in on the third line with skill…

      Let me hear your thoughts…..no need to hear your thoughts Godot….Kassian plays way too high up here and he is being zoomed by 97…
      Got it!

      It would be nice to see unicorns but I think the team is shy on top 6 W to make this happen. Maybe next year???
      If I were to get all Unic- horny with the current line up + Benson.and I were coach I would try this…After seeing if Benson can contribute and be effective @ NHL level…
      Benson-McDavid-Kass
      Nyg-Drai-Yamo
      Arch-Nuge-Neal
      Shea-Haas-Chia (Shea taming most faceoffs, but bigger body for the boards and Haas is faster and a better play maker)

      Nurse-Bear
      Klef-Lars
      Jones-Benning

      If Neal still blows goats at 5-5 then L3 becomes
      JJ-Nuge-Arch

  166. duct tape and foil says:

    Woodguy v2.0: FOIL

    I think the nature of the cap is that we will never, except for brief periods, have elite talent all over the top 6. It’s just too expensive when you are paying 2 guys $21 million. Having high picks pan out helps a lot though for those brief windows at the end of ELC where they can really out-play their contract. Benson and Yamo both paid peanuts next year, and if they can play top 6 minutes. that will be wicked good.

    I think Benson has elite passing, not as good as Drai, but really skilled. His boardwork is also plus and those 2 traits could make him a nice fit with McDavid. Shifting him and Neal between L1 and L4 for the rest of this year might work out well for both guys.

    3C is where I try make a splash. If Nashville is out then you push hard for Bonino.

  167. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: That type of trade seems highly unlikely to me.In that particular proposal, I don’t see Rusty waiving his clause.

    It seems highly unlikely because we don’t have access to Russell’s 10-team trade list. If we did, picking targets would be much easier. But my point is that, in the absence of that information, there are hockey trades out there that make sense.

  168. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    duct tape and foil: I think the nature of the cap is that we will never, except for brief periods, have elite talent all over the top 6. It’s just too expensive when you are paying 2 guys $21 million. Having high picks pan out helps a lot though for those brief windows at the end of ELC where they can really out-play their contract. Benson and Yamo both paid peanuts next year, and if they can play top 6 minutes. that will be wicked good.

    I think Benson has elite passing, not as good as Drai, but really skilled. His boardwork is also plus and those 2 traits could make him a nice fit with McDavid. Shifting him and Neal between L1 and L4 for the rest of this year might work out well for both guys.

    3C is where I try make a splash. If Nashville is out then you push hard for Bonino.

    I don’t think they need Elite talent to play with McDavid.

    They just need higher end “middle” players, which is very doable in a cap system, especially if you draft well.

    EDM is playing lower end “middle” players or “gritensity” players (using the puckiq data) in that spot now.

    Even McDavid gets help from higher end help.

  169. v4ance says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    If you don’t listen to the PDOcast with Dimitri Filapovich you should.It’s good.

    His recent episode with Kevin Woodly from In Goal magazine is so, so good.

    Reset my own thoughts on a few players to and is full of good stuff.

    Also learned that In Goal has their own podcast and will start to listen to a lot of that as well.

    Those podcast are available for free. I use a free account at Spotify.

    Golden! I love the insight on defensive environment affecting goalie performance and cross slot plays affecting goalie styles. It makes total sense.

    I really liked their suggestion of Lehner to Edmonton…

  170. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think Holland and Tippett are focussed on winning games as opposed to showcasing depth d-men for trades.

    No fucking kidding
    They are playing Jones because he helps the team as well
    You were speculating why Lagesso. Wasn’t playing. I was suggesting a possible reason.

  171. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    v4ance: Golden!I love the insight on defensive environment affecting goalie performance and cross slot plays affecting goalie styles.It makes total sense.

    I really liked their suggestion of Lehner to Edmonton…

    Me too.

  172. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Harpers Hair: There’s more to Buddy Robinson than meets the eye.

    He’s described as a good skater and is a childhood friend of Gaudreau who was instrumental in getting Robinson into the Calgary system.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/flames-robinson-hopes-achieve-dream-playing-bff-gaudreau/

    He certainly doesn’t seem to be a Peluso type face puncher.

    That said, he’s 28, a monster, and not in the NHL. He’d be there if he could be there.

    That said, his AHL salary is $350K so he’s valued by the CGY org.

  173. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    v4ance: Golden!I love the insight on defensive environment affecting goalie performance and cross slot plays affecting goalie styles.It makes total sense.

    I really liked their suggestion of Lehner to Edmonton…

    A lot of the goalie opinions that I respect (Woodley and Cat SIlverman at the top of that list) all rave about Clear Sight Analytics and how they measure expected goals.

    That’s the company that ex-NHL goalie Steve Valiquette started.

    Its not *way* for off what the public stuff has as far as I have been able to tell (which isn’t too much…), but it is different enough that one will be superior to the other and I’d bet on CSA.

    There is no doubt that teams are using this data to make better goalie hiring decisions.

    I highly doubt EDM is among those teams.

  174. v4ance says:

    Woodguy v2.0: A lot of the goalie opinions that I respect (Woodley and Cat SIlverman at the top of that list) all rave about Clear Sight Analytics and how they measure expected goals.

    That’s the company that ex-NHL goalie Steve Valiquettestarted.

    Its not *way* for off what the public stuff has as far as I have been able to tell (which isn’t too much…), but it is different enough that one will be superior to the other and I’d bet on CSA.

    There is no doubt that teams are using this data to make better goalie hiring decisions.

    I highly doubt EDM is among those teams.

    That line about how Chayka used the CSA data to glean that one of Keumper’s goaltending attributes was a strong “fit” for their defensive tendencies is exactly how I’d want the Oilers to identify the next goalie they acquire.

    Sadly, I believe you’re right and the Oilers are just opening NHL.com and looking at the top save percentages

  175. Harpers Hair says:

    jp: Why do you figure it took him 1.5+ yrs in the Flames system to get a call to the bigs?

    Must be something missing from his game.

    No idea what that might be.

  176. v4ance says:

    Woodguy v2.0: A lot of the goalie opinions that I respect (Woodley and Cat SIlverman at the top of that list) all rave about Clear Sight Analytics and how they measure expected goals.

    That’s the company that ex-NHL goalie Steve Valiquettestarted.

    Its not *way* for off what the public stuff has as far as I have been able to tell (which isn’t too much…), but it is different enough that one will be superior to the other and I’d bet on CSA.

    There is no doubt that teams are using this data to make better goalie hiring decisions.

    I highly doubt EDM is among those teams.

    I also liked the part of the discussion where they pretty much wrote off Vancouver in the playoffs. The Canucks regular success is dependant on generating lots of PP chances and when the refs put away their whistles, the Canucks may not be able to win the games with less PP opportunities.

    On the other hand, that bodes well for Edmonton as we don’t generate near as many PPs but the ones we get, we’re more efficient at scoring goals. In playoff games, that could easily tilt the balance on a close series.

  177. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    v4ance: That line about how Chayka used the CSA data to glean that one of Keumper’s goaltending attributes was a strong “fit” for their defensive tendencies is exactly how I’d want the Oilers to identify the next goalie they acquire.

    Sadly, I believe you’re right and the Oilers are just opening NHL.com and looking at the top save percentages

    NHL Guide and Record book. 🙂

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