Coke Machines: No Longer A Thing?

by Lowetide

Among the men drafted by the Edmonton Oilers this century, Jujhar Khaira is one of the edgiest. He is very strong, is willing to engage and plays an aggressive game. There’s a mean streak. That’s a good thing.

Offense has been a problem, we’ve known that since before Kevin Constantine was his coach (Constantine’s teams typically dump the puck in on breakaways in order to be set defensively when the puck comes the other way).

Edmonton spent much of the early part of this century drafting players once described on this blog as ‘Coke Machines’ due to their size and inability to score. Khaira is not a Coke Machine, he’s an NHL player.

THE ATHLETIC!

Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. I am proud to be part of The Athletic. Here are the most recent Oilers stories.

In the early part of the century, the Edmonton Oilers spent at least one pick per season on a big forward. These men usually lacked NHL calibre skill, should have been taken in the 4th or 5th round but the Oilers plucked them 50 slots earlier in order to make certain no one else got them. Bold strategy, Cotton.

Size mattered. I called them “Coke Machines” because they were neither checkers or scorers and they couldn’t be called policemen because John Ferguson (first player I recall being called a policeman) took a regular shift in the Original Six and that was a tough row to hoe. Here are the names of the first set of Coke Machines and the year they were drafted:

  • 2000-No. 35-C Brad Winchester, 6’5, 210 [390 NHL games]
  • 2001-No. 52-C Eddie Caron, 6’2, 230
  • 2002-No. 79-LW Brock Radunske, 6’4, 199
  • 2003-No. 51-RW Colin McDonald, 6’2, 190 [148 NHL games]
  • 2003-No. 68-LW JF Jacques, 6’3.5, 217 [166 NHL games]
  • 2003-No. 94-RW Zack Stortini, 6’4, 225 [257 NHL games]
  • 2004-No. 57-C Geoff Paukovich, 6’4, 207
  • 2005-No. 97-C Chris Vande Velde, 6’2, 190 [278 NHL games]

Winchester played the most NHL games, but the ‘per 82 games’ boxcars really give you an idea about the most successful NHL player:

  • Colin McDonald 11-15-26
  • Brad Winchester 8-6-14
  • Chris VandeVelde 5-9-14
  • Zack Stortini 4-9-13
  • Jean-Francois Jacques 4-4-8

McDonald had the size but also enough skill to play in bigger parts of the game. VandeVelde was an extreme defensive center. Stortini was a MacT favourite, Jacques couldn’t find the ocean. Winchester was probably the most memorable, because of that big goal back in 2006.

Next Gen

The scouting staff had some turnover after 2007, there was a lot of unrest surrounding that 2007 draft we discussed yesterday. Kevin Prendergast was out, Stu MacgGregor was in. Edmonton pursued big forwards, but they were closer to Colin McDonald than Jean-Francois Jacques.

  • 2008-No. 163- L Teemu Hartikainen, 6’1, 215 [52 NHL games]
  • 2009-No. 82- R Cameron Abney 6’5, 205
  • 2010-No. 31- R Tyler Pitlick 6’1, 190 [248 NHL games]
  • 2010-No. 48- L Curtis Hamilton 6’3, 202 [1 NHL game]
  • 2010-No. 166- L Drew Czerwonka 6’2, 192
  • 2011-No. 74- C Travis Ewanyk 6’1, 185
  • 2012-No. 32- L Mitchell Moroz 6’3, 220
  • 2012-No. 63- L Jujhar Khaira 6’4, 212 [218 NHL games]
  • 2012-No. 91- L Daniil Zharkov 6’4, 212

MacGregor was aiming higher but there were some flummoxing choices too (the Abney pick might be the poorest top 100 pick in franchise history). Whereas the Prendergast big men averaged 15 points per 82 games, the men who made the show during MacGregor’s watch were all McDonald-level players.

  • Tyler Pitlick 14-10-24
  • Teemu Hartikainen 10-11-21
  • Juhar Khaira 8-12-20

Three men who are similar to Colin McDonald and all deliver at least some offense. Now, we move on to the MacT years, with Bob Green sliding in and MacGregor still in the room. As discussed yesterday, MacTavish overhauled certain areas, including (I believe) the definition of the ideal draft candidate. More skill! If size is part of the resume, more please, but it starts with skill. Here’s the list under MacT:

  • 2013- No. 83- LC Bogdan Yakimov 6’4, 227 [1 NHL game]
  • 2013- No. 113- L Aidan Muir 6’4, 211
  • 2014- No. 3- Leon Draisaitl 6’2, 208 [422 NHL games]

Per 82 games, Draisaitl is delivering 33-49-82, meaning MacTavish and the scouting staff finally reached the peak of Mount Coke Machine. Except it was no longer a pursuit of Coke Machines, but rather quality players who could make a difference in the heart of the game. Leon’s size is useful, but was secondary, even tertiary.

Peter Chiarelli solved the problem by simply not drafting forwards. He picked a 11 forwards out of 27 picks, 41 percent of the time. In the years in this decade previous to PC’s arrival, GM’s chose 26 forwards in 43 trips to the podium, 60 percent. I’d suggest the last true CM was Cameron Abney, chosen in 2009.

What about Ken Holland? Lots of big men (Michael Rasumussen and Jack Adams are 6.06), but they all have enough skill to project as offensive contributors at the pro level. Who was the ultimate Coke Machine? For that answer, I went to AHL points-per-game in rookie seasons. Fascinating.

Points per game as AHL rookies

  1. Jean-Francois Jacques 2005-06: 65, 24-20-44 [.677]
  2. Teemu Hartikainen 2010-11: 66, 17-25-42 [.636]
  3. Tyler Pitlick 2011-12: 62, 7-16-23 [.371]
  4. Colin McDonald 2007-08: 73, 12-11-23 [.315]
  5. Brad Winchester 2003-04: 65, 13-6-19 [.292]
  6. Curtis Hamilton 2011-12: 41, 5-6-11 [.268]
  7. Brock Radunske 2004-05: 8, 1-1-2 [.250]
  8. Chris VandeVelde 2010-11: 67, 12-4-16 [.239]
  9. Jujhar Khaira 2014-15: 51, 4-6-10 [.196]
  10. Geoff Paukovich 2008-09: 46, 5-4-9 [.196]
  11. Travis Ewanyk 2013-14: 68, 7-5-12 [.176]
  12. Zack Stortini 2005-06: 64, 2-8-10 [.156]
  13. Mitchell Moroz 2014-15: 66, 5-4-9 [.136]
  14. Cameron Abney 2011-12: 14, 0-0-0

The Abney pick was the nadir of the experiment but the Oilers were consistent in drafting players miles before they were projected because they had a ‘passion’ for the things said prospect brought to the game. How far down draft lists was Abney? Central Scouting had 210 names that year, Abney wasn’t on it. Oilers took him No. 82, Cody Eakin was chosen at No. 85.

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Todd Macallan

OriginalPouzar:
Bouchard 12 in Wheeler’s list of prospects drafted/affiliated with NHL teams.

No Rafferty but Wheeler cuts it off at 23 years old:

https://theathletic.com/1880791/2020/07/06/wheeler-the-top-50-drafted-nhl-prospects-ranking-2020-edition/

Interesting to note he has Bouchard as the 2nd ranked dman on the entire list, behind only Byram.

maudite

1 out of 3 ain’t bad?

N64: Lol. That would only block DSF. Most everyone else never spells Boppin Rapper T anything like that.

jp

OriginalPouzar: Would Russell for Sutter help the team more?

In the short term, potentially. But more likely helpful in the long term (not adding the extra year at $6M).

If healthy Sutter might be an actually better 3C too, and definitely a better fit for the role (health being the main issue…).

OriginalPouzar

Bouchard 12 in Wheeler’s list of prospects drafted/affiliated with NHL teams.

No Rafferty but Wheeler cuts it off at 23 years old:

https://theathletic.com/1880791/2020/07/06/wheeler-the-top-50-drafted-nhl-prospects-ranking-2020-edition/

OriginalPouzar

jp: Agreed the Oilers would be better with Turris next season than Neal. And agreed finding a good 3C replacement isn’t a given, even if the money is there.

But I still think it’s a good bet that Holland can find something that will help the team more than Neal for Turris. And that also wouldn’t be the worst trade in the last couple of years if it happened.

Would Russell for Sutter help the team more?

camelwalking

Lowetide:
On a rational blog, you know, with people who understood nothing would get accomplished on the internet, someone would write “well when it comes to Rafferty versus Lagesson, the next five years will tell us the whole story.”

A what now?

hunter1909

godot10:

I’ve been pimping Khiara all last season and it’s even going to be better when he scores anywhere from 5 to 15 goals when the awesome NHL summer playoffs in Edmonton start. Then his value is going to skyrocket. Sign him for a 200k raise per, over 3 seasons now.

They are going to start, right?

Side

Scungilli Slushy:
The only PPE that would be worth wearing is a fit tested, double checked when put on, at least half face, silicone or rubber face piece cartridge style respirators.

Zero droplet / aerosol transmission, or don’t bother.

All, we are at the point now where there is multitudes of reading available out there from educated and directly knowledgeable credible people, on Covid 19 and the transmission of respiratory viruses of this strain.

Covid 19 behaves the same way as the other similar viruses, as was indicated by many people from the very beginning, who were villianized and now have been proven correct (without due apologies and acknowledments).

What our provincial and federal govt’s are peddling now is ass covering, flip flopping, unscientific nonsense, sadly, yet again.

Masks other than what I described (or fed air respirators) are only actually helpful for psychological reasons. They cannot stop transmission of this type of virus because of the laws of basic physics, and basic common sense.

I should have quoted you.

You need to watch this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=0Tp0zB904Mc

Side

jp: I don’t know about the level of fear people have over this stuff. And I don’t know what the provincial or federal government’s have been “peddling”, I live in the US these days.

The post I replied to was about masks. Fear is an entirely different topic.

Your hand or a piece of cloth or any damn thing over your mouth will reduce the amount of saliva particles you’ll emanate. Those are the main way coronavirus spreads so anything covering your mouth will reduce the spread of the virus.

Wearing a surgical mask or a bandana will reduce transmission. Those things also won’t guarantee you’re safe from the virus.

Your logic appears to be “if it’s not 100% effective, it’s not effective at all”. That’s not how it works.

I feel like everyone needs to watch this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=0Tp0zB904Mc

Ryan

€√¥£€^$: Rafalski, Oesterle, Fedun?6th Round Brian Campbell had stunning late success…

Rafalski is a good thought. He was from ages ago though and he went to Europe and came back.

Campbell was a great draft find, but he was in the NHL at 22

Hah, the Oilers sort of cornered the market with Fedun, Hunt, and Oesterle.

Oesterle played a full season in the NHL at 25 and had already played in over 150 AHL games by then.

So we have Rafferty somewhere between Hunt and Fedun with Oesterle as the outer marker.

Material Elvis

Ryan,

The comparables are slim pickings for players who have taken his path. Even the Euro and Russian post 25 yo success stories are few. Hunt would be an extremely generous comparable for Rafterbeam because Hunt has a bomb and scored a ton of goals. That is not the case with Raptorteeth, who is more of a playmaker. He won’t get PP time over Hughes, Edler, or Myers so how productive will he be?They will have to shelter this guy; I’d say some fans are going to be disappointed.

Ryan

Lowetide:
On a rational blog, you know, with people who understood nothing would get accomplished on the internet, someone would write “well when it comes to Rafferty versus Lagesson, the next five years will tell us the whole story.”

But the fun part is trying to make predictions based upon the available info and going on the record.

If Rafferty makes the long journey to top four NHL, DSF will have bragging rights for ages.

€√¥£€^$

Ryan:
Material Elvis,

That’s true.

Rafferty is an unusual position heading into his 25/26 season having only played 57 career AHL and two NHL games.

I don’t imagine that there are many players at his age with those types of career games played numbers (outside of Euros or guys playing in the KHL) that go on to have NHL careers let alone play top four in the NHL.

My first thought for a best case scenario for a late-blooming undrafted defenseman would be Giordano.

Except that Gio was already long in the NHL by then…

Even a late pick like Matt Roy, who’s two months older than Rafferty has already played in 95 NHL games (over the last two seasons).

Can anyone think of some other late bloomers?

Brad Hunt sort of comes to mind a maybe a comp for Rafferty.

Rafalski, Oesterle, Fedun? 6th Round Brian Campbell had stunning late success…

Ryan

Material Elvis,

That’s true.

Rafferty is an unusual position heading into his 25/26 season having only played 57 career AHL and two NHL games.

I don’t imagine that there are many players at his age with those types of career games played numbers (outside of Euros or guys playing in the KHL) that go on to have NHL careers let alone play top four in the NHL.

My first thought for a best case scenario for a late-blooming undrafted defenseman would be Giordano.

Except that Gio was already long in the NHL by then…

Even a late pick like Matt Roy, who’s two months older than Rafferty has already played in 95 NHL games (over the last two seasons).

Can anyone think of some other late bloomers?

Brad Hunt sort of comes to mind a maybe a comp for Rafferty.

JimmyV1965

jp: I don’t know about the level of fear people have over this stuff. And I don’t know what the provincial or federal government’s have been “peddling”, I live in the US these days.

The post I replied to was about masks. Fear is an entirely different topic.

Your hand or a piece of cloth or any damn thing over your mouth will reduce the amount of saliva particles you’ll emanate. Those are the main way coronavirus spreads so anything covering your mouth will reduce the spread of the virus.

Wearing a surgical mask or a bandana will reduce transmission. Those things also won’t guarantee you’re safe from the virus.

Your logic appears to be “if it’s not 100% effective, it’s not effective at all”. That’s not how it works.

Agreed. IMO common sense says masks, while not perfect, can help reduce the spread of the virus; if only because the person wearing the mask is spreading fewer particles.

€√¥£€^$

“Coke Machines” NHL Draft List 2020:

There are actually not many forwards in this Draft that are 6’3″ or above. This is a list of guys that can actually make and take a pass.

Off the top my head they include one of my favourites, Jack Finley who could be gone in late 2nd Round based on MacKenzie’s list.

Dylan Peterson, who has all the tools (size, speed, skill) and was touted as a potential 1st round pick last year, but was underwhelming. He’ll likely go between 80-100.

Stony Plain product Owen Pederson, likely 4th or 5th round, who has slow boots, but has shown a goal-scorers touch.

Winter Wallace, a USHS prospect who might land in the 5th or 6th round.

Yegor Sokolov, who is an overager, but is a great goalscorer in the Q and massive. I like him as a 6th rounder, but he could be taken in the 4th round.

And the massive and unlikely to be Drafted Matthew Rempe, but he could develop into a sneaky good 6’8″ player.

I am sure the are others, but most of the better-known Power Forward types are around 6’2″ (Jarventie, Colangelo, Cuylle, etc).

Material Elvis

Ryan: I liked this scouting report:

“ Brogan Rafferty will not change the look of the team’s defence, as he plays a style that is reminiscent of the type of game offered by the Canucks’ current defenders. He may be a sufficient seventh defenceman next season with some remaining potential to grow as a player.””

https://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2020/4/14/21208191/brogan-rafferty-ahl-analysis-cambiekev

That scouting report was not flattering. Usually, fan analysis is filtered through rose-colored glasses. Kevin Wong doesn’t pull any punches when noting his lack of shot (7 goals his career high),slow processor/passer (doesn’t always see his teammates to complete the easy plays), a tendency to get caught deep, and a tendency to get caught flat-footed that would make him prone to being beaten with outside speed (that’s Connor who blew by you bud).

jp

Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual: I could get behind those. My ideal is probably all three of Russell for Sutter, Puljujarvi for Dickinson, and a Neal buyout. I really don’t think there should be a spot for Neal on the team, but I’ll concede that mine’s an extreme position.

I wouldn’t be too disappointed if that’s how the off-season went (hadn’t thought about adding Sutter AND some competition/contingency for him). I’m hope for a little better, but my expectations for Holland are probably inflated.

€√¥£€^$

Scungilli Slushy:
The only PPE that would be worth wearing is a fit tested, double checked when put on, at least half face, silicone or rubber face piece cartridge style respirators.

Zero droplet / aerosol transmission, or don’t bother.

All, we are at the point now where there is multitudes of reading available out there from educated and directly knowledgeable credible people, on Covid 19 and the transmission of respiratory viruses of this strain.

Covid 19 behaves the same way as the other similar viruses, as was indicated by many people from the very beginning, who were villianized and now have been proven correct (without due apologies and acknowledments).

What our provincial and federal govt’s are peddling now is ass covering, flip flopping, unscientific nonsense, sadly, yet again.

Masks other than what I described (or fed air respirators) are only actually helpful for psychological reasons. They cannot stop transmission of this type of virus because of the laws of basic physics, and basic common sense.

…………………………………………
…………………………………………

This guy actually went to effort to see what a mask can do. He used a surgical mask.

What does a mask do? Blocks respiratory droplets coming from your mouth and throat.Two simple demos:First, I sneezed, sang, talked & coughed toward an agar culture plate with or without a mask. Bacteria colonies show where droplets landed. A mask blocks virtually all of them. pic.twitter.com/ETUD9DFmgU— Rich Davis, PhD, D(ABMM), MLS ??? (@richdavisphd) June 26, 2020

jp

Scungilli Slushy:
No, there isn’t.

A lot of people have deep fear bcs of the misinformation and mixed messages. True fear.

It’s unnecessary unless they have co-morbidities. But it’s real for them and hurtful.

If you’re in close quarters for lengths of time sure, can’t hurt – a plane or bus etc.

Otherwise no, and the wider context has to be considered , where people are so freaked out they turn on each other in the general public over masks, a token gesture.

Or gloves, improperly used, a bigger germ spreader than bare hands.

This is not just my opinion but widely available info, which Canadian CMOs have also publicly stated.

It’s also amazing any person following this blog and the Oilers, even a non Oiler fan and general instigator, could see an AHL tweener as a sure fire NHL bet after the ample evidence we’ve witnessed how it so very likely won’t happen.

I don’t know about the level of fear people have over this stuff. And I don’t know what the provincial or federal government’s have been “peddling”, I live in the US these days.

The post I replied to was about masks. Fear is an entirely different topic.

Your hand or a piece of cloth or any damn thing over your mouth will reduce the amount of saliva particles you’ll emanate. Those are the main way coronavirus spreads so anything covering your mouth will reduce the spread of the virus.

Wearing a surgical mask or a bandana will reduce transmission. Those things also won’t guarantee you’re safe from the virus.

Your logic appears to be “if it’s not 100% effective, it’s not effective at all”. That’s not how it works.

Material Elvis
Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual

jp: Yeah Dickinson does look like a pretty solid target. Only real negative I can see is he’s not great on FO.

I’d prefer something like that (or Russell for Sutter) to Neal for Turris personally. If a (probably) better 3C can be added without buying out Neal I’d prefer to wait another year (or more??) to reduce the pain. And I don’t think Neal is a totally useless hockey player either.

I could get behind those. My ideal is probably all three of Russell for Sutter, Puljujarvi for Dickinson, and a Neal buyout. I really don’t think there should be a spot for Neal on the team, but I’ll concede that mine’s an extreme position.

jp

Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual: Well, if we’re talking alternatives, I’d love to see if Dallas would be interested in discussing a Puljujarvi for Dickinson(plus?) kind of deal. I think Dickinson has every tool to develop into the perfect 3C: speed, tall frame, two-way acumen and some offense and he fits right in age-wise.

Dallas could use a R shot W with some upside and they’ve got plenty of Finns including a supposed friend of Jesse in Roope Hintz.

Yeah Dickinson does look like a pretty solid target. Only real negative I can see is he’s not great on FO.

I’d prefer something like that (or Russell for Sutter) to Neal for Turris personally. If a (probably) better 3C can be added without buying out Neal I’d prefer to wait another year (or more??) to reduce the pain. And I don’t think Neal is a totally useless hockey player either.

Scungilli Slushy

jp: Wow.

There is a HUGE amount of space between “helpful” and “stop transmission” 100%. The actual world resides there.

No, there isn’t.

A lot of people have deep fear bcs of the misinformation and mixed messages. True fear.

It’s unnecessary unless they have co-morbidities. But it’s real for them and hurtful.

If you’re in close quarters for lengths of time sure, can’t hurt – a plane or bus etc.

Otherwise no, and the wider context has to be considered , where people are so freaked out they turn on each other in the general public over masks, a token gesture.

Or gloves, improperly used, a bigger germ spreader than bare hands.

This is not just my opinion but widely available info, which Canadian CMOs have also publicly stated.

It’s also amazing any person following this blog and the Oilers, even a non Oiler fan and general instigator, could see an AHL tweener as a sure fire NHL bet after the ample evidence we’ve witnessed how it so very likely won’t happen.

Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual

jp: Agreed the Oilers would be better with Turris next season than Neal. And agreed finding a good 3C replacement isn’t a given, even if the money is there.

But I still think it’s a good bet that Holland can find something that will help the team more than Neal for Turris. And that also wouldn’t be the worst trade in the last couple of years if it happened.

Well, if we’re talking alternatives, I’d love to see if Dallas would be interested in discussing a Puljujarvi for Dickinson(plus?) kind of deal. I think Dickinson has every tool to develop into the perfect 3C: speed, tall frame, two-way acumen and some offense and he fits right in age-wise.

Dallas could use a R shot W with some upside and they’ve got plenty of Finns including a supposed friend of Jesse in Roope Hintz.

jp

Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual:
Fair enough.

I think it’s a least an improvement on Neal so the team would be better year over year. Worth mentioning that we have to compete with other teams and be confident we could convince a 3C to come here and play the tough minutes.

Agreed the Oilers would be better with Turris next season than Neal. And agreed finding a good 3C replacement isn’t a given, even if the money is there.

But I still think it’s a good bet that Holland can find something that will help the team more than Neal for Turris. And that also wouldn’t be the worst trade in the last couple of years if it happened.

N64

maudite:
LT:

Can you put “rafferty” in the auto filter?

Lol. That would only block DSF. Most everyone else never spells Boppin Rapper T anything like that.

N64
maudite

LT:

Can you put “rafferty” in the auto filter?

OriginalPouzar
Scungilli Slushy

OriginalPouzar: Old news – I don’t workout at 3 am any more but at a more reasonable hour – OP gets his sleep now!

Good to hear!

Healthier, even for the healthy

Harpers Hair

OriginalPouzar: Why don’t you take their words when they ALL have Bouchard as a more valuable asset than Rafferty?

Oops.
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/not-close-to-nhl-ready-evan-bouchard-not-on-tsns-list-of-top-50-nhl-prospects

jp

Scungilli Slushy:
The only PPE that would be worth wearing is a fit tested, double checked when put on, at least half face, silicone or rubber face piece cartridge style respirators.

Zero droplet / aerosol transmission, or don’t bother.

All, we are at the point now where there is multitudes of reading available out there from educated and directly knowledgeable credible people, on Covid 19 and the transmission of respiratory viruses of this strain.

Covid 19 behaves the same way as the other similar viruses, as was indicated by many people from the very beginning, who were villianized and now have been proven correct (without due apologies and acknowledments).

What our provincial and federal govt’s are peddling now is ass covering, flip flopping, unscientific nonsense, sadly, yet again.

Masks other than what I described (or fed air respirators) are only actually helpful for psychological reasons. They cannot stop transmission of this type of virus because of the laws of basic physics, and basic common sense.

Wow.

There is a HUGE amount of space between “helpful” and “stop transmission” 100%. The actual world resides there.

OriginalPouzar

Harpers Hair: Yep, no doubt Lagesson”s D work shines like a National Guitar.

GP-8 G-0 A-0. MINUS 4.

What does “sure-fire 2nd pairing d-man Brogan Rafferty’s” NHL stat line look like at 25?

OriginalPouzar

Harpers Hair: Yeah, Cambie Kev is an accomplished talent evaluator,

I’d take his word any day over Elite Prospects, Dobber Hockey and Craig Button.

What the hell do they know.

Why don’t you take their words when they ALL have Bouchard as a more valuable asset than Rafferty?

Harpers Hair

Brian Lawton (@brianlawton9) Tweeted:
In surveying with various Agents that are working overtime through this process speaking with their clients the strong feeling is the vote will pass easily but won’t be unanimous. Think 70-30/ 80-20. @NHLNetwork

jp

pts2pndr: McLeod is a better bet than trading a slow wagon with two front wheels for a newer wagon with two back wheels. With three quality Centers on the team although one plays the wing there is cover for a a young centre for short periods if required. Nealfor Turris is in my opinion, a poor sideways move at very best.

I agree Neal for Turris would be a largely lateral move. But McLeod, he’s got a long way to go before he’s in the conversation for an NHL job. And it would be a long way from there to being 3C.

If things go well he could be the Oilers 3C in a few years. But there’s no way that Holland is counting on any type of future NHL contribution from McLeod, never mind 3C in the short term.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Jaxon,

I’m sorry, but I can’t get behind this idea. I typically like to love your posts, but this is revisionist history kind of thinking. It makes no sense to equivocate the current context to the past, times have changed.

Perhaps an asterisk is helpful to note the number of teams in the league when discussing historical drafts against the modern era.

Maybe it’s just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Harpers Hair

OriginalPouzar: Of course noone here is saying that Laggeson is a sure-fire 2nd pairing d-man this coming year – I’ve heard that Rafferty is – someone too good to trade for any of Bear, Klefbom or Bouchard.

Considering Rafferty is an offensive d-man and Lagesson is a defensive d-man first, those numbers shine Lagesson in an even brighter light – thank you for that.

I won’t even go in to the fact that Lagesson’s points are almost entirety at even strength – he led the Condors D in 5 on 5 scoring in 2018/19 (while NHL players Jones and Bear were on the team).

Yep, no doubt Lagesson”s D work shines like a National Guitar.

GP-8 G-0 A-0. MINUS 4.

OriginalPouzar

OriginalPouzar:
As per Chris Johnston:

NHL players have until 5 p.m. ET on Tuesday to notify their teams they’re opting out of participating in Phase 3 or 4, under the protocols tentatively agreed upon by the NHL and NHLPA.

There is no penalty for doing so

Friedman’s updated this and deadline to “opt out” will be 3 days after ratification.

Harpers Hair

Ryan: I liked this scouting report:

“ Brogan Rafferty will not change the look of the team’s defence, as he plays a style that is reminiscent of the type of game offered by the Canucks’ current defenders. He may be a sufficient seventh defenceman next season with some remaining potential to grow as a player.””

https://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2020/4/14/21208191/brogan-rafferty-ahl-analysis-cambiekev

Yeah, Cambie Kev is an accomplished talent evaluator,

I’d take his word any day over Elite Prospects, Dobber Hockey and Craig Button.

What the hell do they know.

Scungilli Slushy

The only PPE that would be worth wearing is a fit tested, double checked when put on, at least half face, silicone or rubber face piece cartridge style respirators.

Zero droplet / aerosol transmission, or don’t bother.

All, we are at the point now where there is multitudes of reading available out there from educated and directly knowledgeable credible people, on Covid 19 and the transmission of respiratory viruses of this strain.

Covid 19 behaves the same way as the other similar viruses, as was indicated by many people from the very beginning, who were villianized and now have been proven correct (without due apologies and acknowledments).

What our provincial and federal govt’s are peddling now is ass covering, flip flopping, unscientific nonsense, sadly, yet again.

Masks other than what I described (or fed air respirators) are only actually helpful for psychological reasons. They cannot stop transmission of this type of virus because of the laws of basic physics, and basic common sense.

N64
Ryan

Scungilli Slushy: “Rafferty was easily the best defenseman in the game for either team including Olle Juolevi and Erik Brannstrom. Keep in mind Rafferty is 24-years-old and may not have the same long term upside as either”

Let’s use the whole piece of information you quoted.

I liked this scouting report:

“ Brogan Rafferty will not change the look of the team’s defence, as he plays a style that is reminiscent of the type of game offered by the Canucks’ current defenders. He may be a sufficient seventh defenceman next season with some remaining potential to grow as a player.””

https://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2020/4/14/21208191/brogan-rafferty-ahl-analysis-cambiekev

Side

godot10: I don’t think coaches should wear masks, but there are some good face shields out there that I think would be appropriate and wouldn’t impede them from feeling normal.

Don’t think face shields will do enough compared to a mask. Face shield wouldn’t slow the velocity of water droplets like a mask would.

Nevermind if a coach is upset and yelling. Would the shield fog up requiring something to wipe all of those delicious moisture droplets away?

I thought the face shield is to compliment a mask. Unless you are talking about some fancy shield.

N64

Seravalli confirms finals not in Toronto

Frank Seravalli
@frank_seravalli
#NHL Phase 4 protocol says players’ families will be allowed to join for Conference Finals and Stanley Cup Final in Edmonton and will be allowed to share hotel rooms

Scungilli Slushy

Harpers Hair: Couple of rather bold assumptions there.

It’s quite likely he would play on the Canucks second PP unit.

Here is a scouting report from someone who actually has seen him play.

“Brogan Rafferty was as advertised, very impressive.

He is the Comets top defenseman on a team with deployment in offensive zone faceoffs, short handed and of course the top PP unit.

He carried the puck with ease through the neutral zone, made zone entry look easy, was the trigger on the point with a heavy shot. Some of the cons I noticed were he was at times a little aggressive offensively and it didn’t happen in the game I was at, but it will lead to breakaway and odd man rushes against.

Rafferty was easily the best defenseman in the game for either team including Olle Juolevi and Erik Brannstrom”

https://dobberprospects.com/prospects-ramblings-brogan-rafferty-scouting-notes-zayde-wisdom-and-midseason-guide/

Kinda looks like you’re way off base.

From Elite Prospects:

“A smart two-way D-man that likes to get involved in all three zones. Showcases smooth skating ability and, while not always the fastest guy on the ice, a willingness to backcheck quickly. Positionally sound, Rafferty isn’t caught off-guard often or found in disadvantageous situations. Transitions up-ice quickly and makes good decisions consistently. Could work on physicality and getting his stick in lanes, but isn’t weak in his own end. All-in-all, a solid all-around defender with lots of raw potential to be refined.”

“Rafferty was easily the best defenseman in the game for either team including Olle Juolevi and Erik Brannstrom. Keep in mind Rafferty is 24-years-old and may not have the same long term upside as either”

Let’s use the whole piece of information you quoted.

OriginalPouzar

N64: This is the soft spot. it would only take one team slammed hard especially close to phase 4 to impinge on competitive integrity. Very significant risk of not getting to phase 4.

Yup – perhaps the league should mandate players to a “home and rink quarantine” during training camp……. or the teams should.

Players strutting around Tampa, Phoenix, Vegas, Dallas, St. Louis, etc. as they please on the even of travelling to EDM/TOR is not acceptable – I don’t care how much testing is being done.

Ryan

Ryan,

Willy Legs had 0.4 ppg ES in his 22/23 AHL season.

Brogdan watching from the rafters Raffery had 0.44 ppg even strength in his 24/25 AHL season.

Also 0.12 gpg Es vs 0.07.

Neither have rocket boots.

Legs is taller, stronger, and far meaner. He has draft pedigree… and debuted in the AHL two seasons sooner while posting similar even strength numbers though not his calling card.

Both guys are fighting for a role as a #6/7 dman.

One of these is more like the other than you’d think.