College Men

by Lowetide

The Edmonton Oilers have enjoyed success from college draft picks over the years. Glenn Anderson (Denver) and Shawn Horcoff (Michigan State) played more than 1,000 games in the NHL, and men like Mike Comrie (Michigan), Shjon Podein (Minnesota-Duluth), Tyler Pitlick (Minnesota-Mankato) and Brad Werenka (Northern Michigan) had NHL careers. Since Ken Holland arrived in Edmonton, the Oilers have drafted three college men in four drafts. Is it worth the investment?

THE ATHLETIC!

COLLEGE MEN DRAFTED SINCE 2019

Dylan Holloway is going to have an NHL career, but if he scores around Reilly Smith levels (per 82 NHL games: 21-29-50) he’s going to play on a successful line a long time. His skating and passing skills are splendid and his shot is recovering to some point that hopefully resembles full throttle.

Filip Engaras signed an AHL deal and played five games with the Bakersfield Condors after his college career ended in the spring. He is a RH center and that gives him value, has two-way ability. His offense isn’t outstanding, in fact his age 22 NHLE (20.5) places him in the “Cameron Hebig” family of offensive players. He’s a long shot.

Joel Maatta has a scouting report that resembles Teemu Hartikanen a dozen years ago, but the offensive gap makes a comparable impossible. At 19, Hartikainen’s NHLE was 23, and a year later it was 25.4. I don’t think Maatta has that kind of torque, but it’s also likely the freshman college season suppressed his offence. Chris VandeVelde (8.2 NHLE at 19) might be a better comparable. Maatta’s a two-way center and the Oilers have plenty of time to see him progress. One good thing: Maatta keeps the Finnish connection going, it’s getting low these days and if Jesse Puljujarvi is dealt the entire enterprise will be on life support unless Markus Niemelainen hangs around for a decade.

DRAFTING COLLEGE MEN FROM FEEDER LEAGUES

The Oilers have been far more active this century drafting kids from feeder leagues on their way to college. This is a long list, but I haven’t updated recently and it serves as a good reference piece for me. Slogathon begins, sorry if it’s boring.

  1. 2000—D Jason Platt in the 8th round. Drafted out of Omaha (USHL) after 18-year old season. Attended college at Providence and signed with the Oilers after full four years in NCAA. Turned pro at 23, peaked with 109 AHL games.
  2. 2001—C Eddie Caron in the 2nd round. Drafted out of Phillips-Exeter Academy (USHS) after 18-year old season. Attended college at New Hampshire, transferred but it got derailed or he left Dodge and he turned pro with Greenville Grrrowl at age 22. Peaked with 54 ECHL games.
  3. 2001—C Jake Brenk in the 5th round. Drafted out of Breck School (USHS) after 18-year old season. Attended Minnesota State-Mankato all four years, turned pro at 23 by signing in Holland. Now an NHL on-ice official.
  4. 2002—D Matt Greene in the 2nd round. Drafted out of Green Bay (USHL) after 18-year old season. Attended UND for three seasons, turned pro at 22 by signing with the Oilers. Greene would play in the SCF’s that season and enjoyed a long NHL career (615 games).
  5. 2002—G Glenn Fisher in the 5th round. Drafted out of Ft. Saskatchewan (AJHL) after 18-year old season. Attended U Denver for four years, and turned pro with the Oilers age 24. Peaked with four AHL games.
  6. 2002—L Patrick Murphy in the 7th round. Drafted out of Newmarket (OPJHL) after 18-year old season. Attended Northern Michigan for four years, and turned pro at age 23 by signing with Laredo (CHL). Played five games at that level.
  7. 2003—R Colin McDonald in the 2nd round. Drafted out of New England (EJHL) after 17-year old season. Attended Providence College for four years, turned pro at 22 by signing with the Oilers. He played 148 NHL games and was playing in the NHL in 2019-20.
  8. 2003—R David Rohlfs in the 5th round. Drafted out of Compuware (NAHL) after 18-year old season. Attended Michigan for four years, turned pro at 23 by signing with the Oilers. Peaked with seven AHL games.
  9. 2004—C Geoff Paukovich in the 2nd round. Drafted out of USNDTP after 17-year old season. Attended U Denver for three years, and turned pro at 21 by signing with the Oilers. Peaked with 109 AHL games. Oilers traded Jason Chimera for the draft pick that was used for Paukovich.
  10. 2005—C Andrew Cogliano in the 1st round. Drafted out of Toronto St. Mike’s (OPJHL) after 17-year old season, he played at Michigan for two years and turned pro at age 20 with the Oilers. Currently at 1,140 NHL games and counting, he won Stanley this year. Class of the group.
  11. 2005—D Taylor Chorney in the 2nd round. Drafted out of Shattuck-St. Mary’s (USHS) after 17-year old season, he played for UND for three years and turned pro at age 21 with the Oilers. Finished with 166 NHL games, played 2020-21 in Austria.
  12. 2005—C Robby Dee in the 3rd round. Drafted out of Breck (USHS) after 17-year old season, he went to Omaha (USHL) for two years and then college (Maine) for four years before turning pro at age 24 in the ECHL. Peaked with three AHL games.
  13. 2005—C Chris VandeVelde in the 4th round. Drafted out of Moorhead (USHS) after 17-year old season, he went to Lincoln (USHL) for one year and then college (UND) for four years before turning pro at age 23 by signing with the Oilers. He played 278 NHL in his career.
  14. 2005—L Matt Glasser in the 7th round. Drafted out of Fort McMurray (AJHL) after 17-year old season, he stayed another year in the USHL and then hit college (U Denver) for four years before turning pro at age 23 in the CHL. Peaked with 116 CHL games.
  15. 2006—D Jeff Petry in the 2nd round. Drafted out of Des Moines (USHL) after 17-year old season, he stayed another year in the USHL and then hit college (Michigan State) for three more years before turning pro at age 22 by signing with the Oilers. Currently at 803 games, one of the best in this group.
  16. 2007—C Riley Nash in the 1st round. Drafted out of Salmon Arm (BCJHL) after 17-year old season, he attended Cornell (NCAA) for three years before turning pro at age 21 by signing with the Carolina Hurricanes. Currently at 627 NHL games.
  17. 2009—D Troy Hesketh in the 3rd round. Drafted out of Minnetonka (USHS) after 17-year old season, he did not progress.
  18. 2009—D Kyle Bigos in the 4th round. Drafted out of Vernon (BCJHL) after 20-year old season, he attended Merrimack College (NCAA) for four years before turning pro at age 24 by signing with the San Jose Sharks. Peaked with eight AHL games.
  19. 2010—F  Kellen Jones in the 7th round. Drafted out of Vernon (BCJHL) after 20-year old season, he attended Quinnipiac (NCAA) for four years before turning pro by signing with the Oklahoma City Barons for his 24-year old season. Peaked with 175 AHL games.
  20. 2012—C Jujhar Khaira in the 3rd round. Drafted out of Prince George (BCJHL) after 17-year old season, he attended Michigan Tech for one year and Everett (WHL) for one year and he turned pro with the Oilers at age 20. Has played in 285 NHL games, running into concussion issues in recent seasons. Played for Chicago last year.
  21. 2013—F Aidan Muir in the 4th round. Drafted out of Victory Honda Midget (MWEHL) after 17-year old season, he played with Indiana (USHL) for a year before heading to Western Michigan. Muir played four college seasons, Oilers did not sign him to a pro deal.
  22. 2013—L Evan Campbell in the 5th round. Drafted out of Langley (BCJHL) after 20-year old season, he played with UMass-Lowell (NCAA) 2013-17. Played in one AHL game.
  23. 2014—D William Lagesson in the 4th round. Drafted out of Frolunda (Swedish Juniors) after his 17-year old year, he played the following season in the USHL before heading to the NCAA UMass-Amherst for two years. Once turning pro he developed by sundial but has played in 60 NHL games.
  24. 2014—L Liam Coughlin in the 5th round. Drafted out of Vernon (BCJHL) after 19-year old season, he stayed there for an extra year before playing college hockey for Vermont. Dealt to Chicago, he played for three AHL teams last season.
  25. 2014—F Tyler Vesel in the 6th round. Drafted out of Omaha (USHL) after 20-year old season, he just finished four seasons with U Nebraska-Omaha. He has flourished in Sweden’s Allsvenskan league the past three seasons.
  26. 2015—Caleb Jones in the 4th round. Drafted out of the US National Development Program (USHL), he changed gears and played for Portland (WHL) for his two post-draft seasons. Emerged as a legit NHL defenseman and was traded to Chicago (which is a trend for these prospects). Currently at 144 NHL games.
  27. 2015—John Marino in the 6th round. Drafted out of the South Shore Kings (USHL Pr), he moved up to the USHL in draft +1 (won Clark Cup) and then Harvard. Oilers were unable to sign him, dealt Marino to Pittsburgh and he has played in 189 NHL games.
  28. 2016—Matt Cairns in the 3rd round. Drafted out of Georgetown (OJHL), he couldn’t get into the lineup in the USHL (not a good sign) so played in the BCHL to complete his year. Played sparingly in freshman season with Cornell 2017-18. Did not sign in Edmonton.
  29. 2016—Graham McPhee in the 5th round. Drafted out of the US National Development Team, he attended Boston College and played a support role. Like Dillon Simpson, McPhee arrived in college very young (he was drafted while 17). Signed an AHL deal with Bakersfield, has played in 36 games at that level.
  30. 2016—Aapeli Rasanen in the 7th round. Drafted out of the Finnish Jr leagues, he played for Sioux City of the USHL, then Boston College. Improved offensively when he went back to Finland (top league, Liiga) and has played well. Edmonton no longer has his rights.
  31. 2017—Skyler Brind’Amour in the 6th round. Drafted out of the U.S. National Development Team, Brind’Amour went to a lesser league (BCHL). Once at Quinnipiac, his shutdown style began to show and his offense improved. He is about to enter his senior year.
  32. 2017—Phil Kemp in the 6th round. Another player drafted out of the U.S. National Development Program. Kemp has a defensive reputation, he was effective at Yale and has established himself in the AHL as a reliable defender.
  33. 2018—Michael Kesselring in the 6th round. He’s a big man with raw skills, drafted out of a New Hampshire high school. Played in the USHL, then Northeastern University and has shown flashes in Bakersfield. Still a long way to go but he is making progress.
  34. 2019—Tomas Mazura in the 6th round. Czechian player drafted out of U.S. High School and playing at Providence College. He hasn’t played much since draft day. Head for St. Lawrence University this season, definitely giving off an “Eddie Caron” vibe.
  35. 2020—Carter Savoie in the 4th round. Drafted out of the AJHL (Sherwood Park Crusaders), Savoie went to Denver University where he lit it up with his brilliant release. The Pioneers won a national title, Savoie scored 36 goals in 63 NCAA games and will turn pro this fall. He isn’t NHL-ready like Mike Comrie at 20, but his pure goal-scoring skill is intoxicating.
  36. 2021—Luca Munzenberger in the third round. Drafted out of Cologne, Germany, he played for the University of Vermont last season. He looks impressive at the World Juniors (he’ll play for Germany in August) and I do think we have very little idea about him as a player. In college, he gets buried because his team is poor, but that should change and he takes command at the WJ’s. I would not describe him as a distant bell, but rather a (mostly) unknown.
  37. 2021—Shane Lachance in the sixth round. He’s a big man (6.05, 210) and scored well in the USHL last season (55 games, 11-12-23). Miles to go, he’ll play with Boston University this season.

NHL GAMES

  1. Andrew Cogliano 1,140
  2. Jeff Petry 803
  3. Riley Nash 627
  4. Matt Greene 615
  5. Jujhar Khaira 285
  6. Chris VandeVelde 278
  7. John Marino 189
  8. Taylor Chorney 166
  9. Colin McDonald 148
  10. Caleb Jones 144
  11. William Lagesson 60

POSSIBLE 2022-23 OILERS ROSTER

This deals Warren Foegele for a pick, and signs Phil Kessel to a value deal. It comes in with $10,000 to spare, mostly because Slater Koekkoek was added to LTIR. I like the forward group and the defense need only to hold on until the deadline. I mixed up the pairings, or more accurately didn’t adjust them, but it’s a good roster. Hated to sacrifice Foegele, I think he’s poised for a solid year.

LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON

We’re back! Jamo was solo last week with Geoff Walker, this week Matt Iwanyk and I will derail their good work (probably by 11). TSN 1260, 10-2 today, MLB trade deadline will be the focus, with CFL, NFL and of course hockey news in there if anything pops up. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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OriginalPouzar

I think this statement, right here, provides some fairly substantial evidence of how some of these models have some fairly big flaws:

“Even Zach Hyman’s deal, which looked okay-ish when it was signed, has turned into the red here — though it’s still not a bad deal by any means.”

https://theathletic.com/3467384/2022/08/03/nhl-contract-rankings/

We know that Hyman’s on-ice numbers are not great – he was a “minus player” with not great possession numbers, etc. (I believe), hence, he shows poor on these types of models.

I mean, despite what the on-ice numbers say, does anyone that watches the Oilers really think that his “contract value” diminished due to his performance this regular season?

Of course, one can make arguments the contract isn’t good, mainly due to its term, but its almost an embarrassing argument (in my opinion) to opine that (1) he wasn’t full value for his cap hit this past season and playoffs and (2) his contract value went down due to his performance this past season.

The above would mean one didn’t watch Oiler games generally, I would think, no?

Litke 94

I agree with this. Based off last season alone, I had absolutely zero issue with his contract and thought he outperformed it with clutch performances in key games time and time again. What the future holds is a mystery, but year one was a mega success.

Harpers Hair

Vin Scully has passed.

The best play by play voice in ANY sport.

R.I.P.

Reja

His voice was soothing.

Harpers Hair

An announcer…a story teller and a legend.

OriginalPouzar

3 X $5.8MM for Mangiapane – that is hefty.

OriginalPouzar

I think that buys at least one, maybe two UFA years (I think) but he’s only had one “pop” season. He may move up the batting order – will see how he does with tougher minutes.

Gerta Rauss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7dg8vRDM68

Chuck Mangione Feels So Good

I seem to recall seeing him at Clarke Stadium in the late 70’s – I would have been 13 or 14 at the time. He took the stage at intermission, did this one song, and that was it.

I may have dreamed the whole thing however

AsiaOil

My god that list of US college picks is awful until 2018 but includes a few decent draft and follow picks since then.

I’m coming to the conclusion that trading Yamo is the right play as we can probably squeeze the best picks out of Seattle for him. Yamo and a late rounder or B prospect for the extra late 2nd round picks they have in 2023 (WPG and TOR).

Flip Hyman to RW2, sign Chiasson for league minimum and his usual role (4RW and PP) and trade one or both of the picks at the trade deadline to load up for the playoffs. No need to fill all the holes for game 1 of the season. Chiasson is not fast but he can still score and will not hurt you defensively. Run 11-7 half the time to develop the young dmen and Holloway.

Kane McD JP
RNH Drai Hyman
Foegle McLeod Ryan
Janmark Holloway Chiasson

Nurse Ceci
Kulak Bouchard
Broberg/Sammy Barrie

Campbell / Skinner

Last edited 2 years ago by AsiaOil
Harpers Hair

Problem is…after acquiring Bjorkstrand…Seattle is loaded at RW.

Eberle
Bjorkstrand
Donskoi
Tanev
Kuhlman
Lind

While some of those players could easily play the other side, their LW depth is just as good.

Schwartz
McCann
Burakovsky
Donato

Can’t imagine they would bite on Yamamoto unless the Oilers took money back.

Reja

Starbucks crowd demands organic.

OriginalPouzar

Cogs, VandeVelde, Nash, Petry, Marino….. that’s some good stuff.

Even the likes of Jones, Lagesson, Chorney and Khaira had some substance to them.

——————–

From the sounds of it, a trade of Yamamoto isn’t even being contemplated by the org – not that he’s untouchable but he’s valued in the room, etc.

On that note, why does Seattle come us as the destination all the time? Is this because he’s from Washington State. For me, its odd when some presume teams use where the player grew up as a material acquisition analysis factor. Maybe it is but I wouldn’t think so. In any event, Spokane and Seattle are not very close – even farther than Edmonton and Calgary – do many presume Calgary born players want to come “home to Edmonton”.

Chiasson was a solid Oiler, I have no interest in him back on the roster, even at league min – that’s just me though.

OriginalPouzar

Seattle could definitely have interest in Yamamoto given the clear upgrade on their LW depth chart that has Donskoi and Tanev as 3RW/4RW but I’m not sure being from Spokane is much of a factor.

striker

I love it when you fellas stand back to back, yelling in opposite directions, pretending not to talk to each other.

Harpers Hair

Vancouver further beefing up its goaltender development department by adding Igor Shesterkin’s former coach.

https://vancouverhockeynow.com/2022/08/02/finnish-goalie-coach-vancouver-canucks-marko-torenius-ian-clark-nhl/

hunter1909

Not wanting to be too much of a dick but… who the heck even cares about the Canucks? They are long gone from their glory days of the last decade. They represent nothing more than another also ran team vying for either low level playoff placement/success(say 1 round) , or else another top draft pick.

Oilers are bona fide contenders. Avs are, that at least is a real rival. By all means continue with your Avs baloney, lol

Last edited 2 years ago by hunter1909
hunter1909

Since we’re discussing also rans, what about the Jets?

OriginalPouzar

I remain highly confidant that the Oilers and Yamamoto will sign a deal prior to arbitration but it will be interesting if this happens before or after their submissions, including requested deal terms, are submitting (which have to be submitted Friday, I believe, 48 hours prior to the scheduled hearing).

Harpers Hair

Kylington 2 X $2.5 million in Calgary.
Quite a bargain.

defmn

He had a good season. Last summer they weren’t sure he would make the team as the 7th guy. I guess we will see which player shows up this fall but Tanev seems to have rescued his career for him.

Harpers Hair

With Weegar on board, he may find himself on the third pairing and lose the Tanev security blanket.

innercitysmytty

Small sample size but the oilers took him to the woodshed in the second round.

OriginalPouzar

That’s a good deal for the flames, in my opinion.

Side

Now that Kylington is signed in Calgary at 2 x $2.5 million, this should give Lou the cap space he needs to sign Kadri.

McNuge93

Colorado is getting Kadri after the Girard trade is finalized.

OriginalPouzar

For what it’s worth, Seravelli said today on the DFO that the Avs aren’t looking to trade Girard to make cap space for Kadri.

McNuge93

So who are we to believe? HH or Seravelli

Redbird62

I believe I heard the same thing on 32 Thoughts.

innercitysmytty

Friedman said the same thing in 32 thoughts last week.

Material Elvis

Well done, sir.

SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo!

Fun fact of no particular relevance other than how breathtakingly good Connor McDavid is.

McDavid has 50 more points and 9 less goals than Taylor Hall in his career. McD also has 34 more playoff points than Hall.

Hall and the injury bug. It was nice to see him bounce back last year.

Too early to make the call on Broberg/Zegras. Let’s see what the next three years brings.

Randle McMurphy

Rumour has it that Lou is up to his old tricks and that Kadri has already signed with the Islanders. Lou did something similar last summer (some sort of weird loyalty test??)

Anyway if this is true Randle will be Very Happy.

That will be:

Tkachuk
Kadri
Kneeordano

All in the east, (where they belong)

defmn

He still has RFA’s to sign and I think he thinks it is to his advantage in negotiations if their agents don’t know how much money he has left.

Harpers Hair

Jesper Bratt reportedly wants $6 million so Lou would be forced to make a significant trade if he wants to sign Kadri.

I wonder if Bratt himself might be the casualty depending on the outcome of arbitration.

defmn

I think you have the Devils and the Islanders confused, no?

Harpers Hair

Damn…getting old.

Reja

Concentrate.

Harpers Hair

Shhh…I’m watching Car 54 Where Are You.

Reja

I’m sitting” on the dock of the bay
Watchin’ the tide roll away.

saddleblazer

7 years later and Lou is still pulling the strings on the Devils? Impressive

Harpers Hair

Wouldnt surprise me if he is.

Sam Pollock redux.

Side

The only casualties were my brain cells from reading and trying to make sense of this scenario.

meanashell11

as usual

Material Elvis

All that time in Lotusland is starting to catch up with you.

OriginalPouzar

The Kevin Lowe news will start a crap-storm on social media I’m sure – about Lowe himself (Pronger trade, “6-rings” and tiered fans) and the “Old Boys Club”, etc. and stuff about “Nicholson better be next”.

For me, there is no doubt that Lowe was an all-time great and historic in the Oilers organization – from the day he was drafted, through his playing career, coaching, GMing, upper management and the last few year in the org but away from hockey ops. This man essentially gave his adult life to the Edmonton Oilers org and, love or hate any of his work (or in between), one cannot doubt his commitment and loyalty to the org and the city and community.

Congrats Kevin, on a historic career.

P.S. his work in the 2005 off-season plus 2006 in-season is also historic – Pronger plus Peca and then adding Roloson, Spacek, Samsanov and Tarnstrom? What an unbelievable year.

106 and 106

I met Kevin Lowe a long time ago when developing photos from a trip at a London Drugs.

He was getting visa photos for Russia for a scouting trip.

But he genuinely seemed interested in my Central America adventures.

Like him most for that discussion, and the Penner offer sheet (and subsequent barn fight debacle).

Paulie

I would like to buy an authentic Oilers jersey (either 29 or 97) to go with the CCM Esa Tikkanen jersey I got back in 1989. Can anyone recommend a good online store that they’ve used before? Thanks in advance.

dulock

Bold prediction: We don’t see a trade before training camp or possibly at all. If someone like Nuge (or any of the 13 players over 2M) is hurt long-term then the LTIR money allows them to keep everyone.

OriginalPouzar

Sure, that would be a (short-term) fix but:

1) I’m not sure that a prudent strategy heading in to camp and the season is to hope that an incumbent player of note is hurt enough for LTIR; and

2) Unless that LTIR player is out for the season, its a temporary cap fix that would require further structuring when said player is healthy.

dulock

On 1, I’m assuming that they already know someone is hurt given the large number of injuries they have.

On 2, Vegas did the same thing last season when acquiring Eichel. No reason to make a trade now because you might have to make that trade later. Especially because you know other teams will have injuries and be looking to acquire players.

defmn

Kevin Lowe is retiring from his role as Vice Chair & Alternate Governor of the hockey club. Moving forward, he will stay connected to the organization & community as an ambassador. Thank you, Kevin!

Last edited 2 years ago by defmn
Reja

First draft pick for the organization. Kevin never once wavered his love for the Oiler crest.

Reja

Edmonton was one of the cheapest teams in the league. Sather would take care of his boys and try to find them a decent landing spot that paid before their playing days were done. From Mr.Semenko all the way down the line to the Andersons, Messiers and Lowe’s. Did Mr. Lowe know he had a job lined up for him after Hockey with the Oilers organization I’m pretty sure he did. Did you live in Edmonton from the Cowboy Flett, Stan Weir days all the through the glory years. The Oilers put Edmonton on the map the boys were rock stars partying every night and being involved in the community. I don’t why but you can find dirt on any player back then, from Fuhr to Lumley etc. Ask Grant Fuhr next time you run into him on a St.Louis golf course he’s a legend in St.Loo everything’s on the house. When I was young I didn’t want to be a Gynaecologist or sleaze bag Lawyet I wanted to be Ken Dryden or Tretiak.

godot10

Lowe made the same choice Ray Bourque made. He wanted to compete for Cups and the Oilers were rebuilding. He earned the right to pursue #6.

Reja

What about Sather does he pass your strict guidelines on being a true Oiler.

Reja

Are you a Oiler fan did you manage to catch any WHA games. Gerry Cheevers signed a program for me when we were playing Cleveland and gave me a pat on the back because I also was a Goalie growing up. Does Gerry pass your test of being a true blue Bruin even though he bolted for a few years to the WHA.

Reja

So who do you look up too and respect hockeywise?

Last edited 2 years ago by Reja
hunter1909

Doug Bentley?

pts2pndr

Most of us are past the having heroes stage of life as in look up too but there are a number of people that I respect for their contributions to the game I love!

Side

It’s kinda odd to appluad Lowe for being loyal to the Oilers and then describe how easy the Oilers made it for Lowe to be loyal to the org.

“Congratulations to Lowe for accepting all of the opportunities given to him by the org. and for hanging in there during that time when the fans wanted him fired but we refused to”

This isn’t a knock against Lowe at all. Just odd to commend him for his loyalty when, as you said, he was treated very well throughout his career with the Oilers.

Unless there were some rumours I missed where another team offered him a much better gig elsewhere. Or some other situation where the Oilers tested his loyalty.

Reja

Who’s your favourite team?

OriginalPouzar

100% – noone could ever question this man’s commitment and loyalty, not just to the Oilers organization and OEG but the city of Edmonton and the community.

Redbird62

Kind of hard at the time to hold true to one’s loyalty to the Oilers when the owner, for reasons that had nothing to do with the hockey team, was conducting a fire sale and squeezing every last dime out of the team. It was Pocklington’s right as the owner to do as he saw fit with the team, but no player should have been expected to take a home town discount under those circumstances. Lowe could have been loyal to the Oilers, but Pocklington made that practically impossible. Even before Lowe, Messier demanded a trade primarily because Sather dealt Graves and it became obvious Pocklington was going to spend the least amount of his hockey revenues he could to keep players while shoring up his other businesses.

The lasting legacy of Pocklington’s tenure as owner, besides the glory years and the 5 cups, is giving the players a quick lesson in how much they might actually be worth. They would have found out eventually, but Pocklington’s sale of the right’s to Gretzky’s contract netting $15 million in cash (way more than Gretzky himself had made in his career to that point) told the NHL players they had greater value than what the owners were sharing with them. Sure Gretzky was high up and alone at the of the food chain in terms of his value, but the trickle down effect became obvious.

Reja

Your a hard man.

Material Elvis

That’s what she said.

Reja

Never assume nowadays you might make a ass out of you and me.

knighttown

A comment on the Scott Wheeler U-23 thread over the last few days. Prospect rankings, above all else, seem to have the ability to turn otherwise logical thinkers into conspiracy theorists.

Trevor Zegras is earmarked to be a far more substantial player than Philip Broberg.

Jesper Wallstedt is in line to be a more impactful player than Xavier Bourgault.

Multiple, INDEPENDENT evaluators feel this way and it’s virtually unanimous among those that do this for a living.

Yet we tie ourselves in knots defending an almost indefensible position.

We suggest these evaluators “hate Edmonton”…so let’s stop and think. Are you suggesting someone who tries to pay their bills by being a prospect expert would consciously or otherwise, put out faulty rankings just because they don’t like the Oilers? Maybe Button goes for controversy but Wheeler and Pronman spend a ton of time re-publishing their work…essentially holding themselves accountable as an attempt to get better.

We suggest that in choosing Broberg over Zegras we prioritized a position of need (Klefbom knowledge) over choosing another skilled forward who needs to be paid and then in the next sentence we validate choosing a skilled winger that will need to be paid over a goaltender who is the pure definition of positional need.

What’s even more interesting is that we challenge this expertise on a THIS specific topic, one in which almost none of us know anything about. Trading Foegele vs Puljujaarvi is a topic I have a lot of time for listening to different opinions because I’ve seen both of these players with my own eyes >50 times and I know hockey, plus I have mounds of data I can review. So I do have an opinion about who is better and it’s a decently knowledgeable one. So this isn’t one of those “you’re not a GM so what do you know” rants.

But you (and I) do NOT know anything about Xavier Bourgault or Jesper Wallsdedt. I’ve seen them both play a couple of times against other kids. So why when someone who stakes their reputation on doing a good job tells you they’ve had 50+ viewings of these players, do we immediately discount their opinion?

When I read these pieces i acknowledge the author’s expertise but also note that the error rate among even the best is high and then I cheer like hell for the guys in Blue and Orange. Why does it make some of us so crazy?

John Chambers

Meanwhile Red Wings fans are IRATE that Wheeler ranked Zegras ahead of Seider.
Zegras is a top-line talent but multiple teams had other players ranked ahead on draft day.
Think the Rangers, Hawks, and Kings wouldn’t now prefer Zegras to Kakko, Dach, or Turcotte?
Really all the credit goes to Zegras himself who has worked to become Jack Hughes’ equal at the top of the draft.

knighttown

Exactly. This is not an Edmonton specific issue. Every team’s fan base thinks every prospect writer hates their prospects.

I can see the argument that some prospect guys are stubborn and stick to their original opinions even in the face of overwhelming evidence (like a GM that won’t fix a mistake they caused) but I see a general effort by most of the best to re-evaluate regularly.

Which is why you see Zegras jump so much and Turcotte fall so much.

Diablo

Articles about prospect rankings are 20% about prognostication and 100% about entertainment. When you look back at what was written about these prospects 5 years ago, these articles are so far off-base that the credibility of most of these guys can easily be called into question … their word is not gospel. That doesn’t make their insights wrong either … but we shouldn’t take these prospect rankings so seriously, where we get into prolonged twitter rants about how taking Broberg over Zegras is a “fireable offence”, or how the choosing Broberg or Kaliyev proves that the Oilers don’t care about “math”.

There is always a more nuanced view.

defmn

This is not an Edmonton specific issue. Every team’s fan base thinks every prospect writer hates their prospects.
================

So you are saying it is normal and expected? 😉

Every team’s fan base can point to a player that was undervalued by somebody on these summertime, click bait, slow news week, make work, league wide lists.

I agree that they are not worth getting excited about although I suspect that our reasons for not doing so are completely different.

They are snap shots in time. Some guys grow and some guys fade. Small, offensively talented guys tend to start early and fade sooner.

Even LT’s prudent five year window misses a couple of late bloomers or early faders and injuries play a huge role in all of this.

Last edited 2 years ago by defmn
JimmyV1965

I know virtually nothing about prospects, but I can’t fathom anyone ranks Zegras above Seider. The kid scored 51 pts in his rookie year, and point production is not the strength of his game.

Crazy Pedestrian

Adding to the Zegras vs. Broberg argument. How does anyone know Zegras would turn out in the Oilers system vs. The Ducks? For all we know, the Ducks then would have chosen Broberg, and he becomes a star dman for them, while Zegras toils in the minors and sips coffe on the forth line, never to reach his potential due to the Oilers already having many more established forwards than the Ducks.

We all know Hindsight is 20/20. Just like when some players deemed as busts, pop on a different team as soon as they get traded.

Lets just all cheer for whoever wears the oil crest and be happy for the privilege to watch a competitive team!

GO OILERS GO!

Last edited 2 years ago by Crazy Pedestrian
danny

I’d assume all of the experts had Olli Juolevi a more substantial prospect than Fox too.

That’s missing the point. It’s clear Zegras is the better prospect right now, more accomplished and more likely to have an impact career…

The question is where does Broberg project, and if he gets there, how does that stack up against Zegras? We can’t make conclusions on a story that’s less than half told.

I don’t think anyone would sincerely claim Broberg is a better prospect today. I also think Broberg could develop into a Jay Bouwmeester type dman, is that worth Zegras?

Redbird62

Jay Bouwmeester has a Stanley Cup ring and an Olympic Gold Medal and he was by no means a passenger for either of those events. The man averaged 24 minutes a game for 18 seasons and 1240 games. He peaked at 27 minutes a game and was barely less than 20 a game only in his rookie season. Practically a full career as a first pair left D. If you knew Broberg was going to have the career that Bouwmeester had, it would be a high bar for Zegras to have a better career. That would add more value to the current Oilers roster than Zegras would.

Last edited 2 years ago by Redbird62
OriginalPouzar

Jay B. is one of the most under-rated players of the “modern era” – to me at least.

jp

I actually thought danny’s was a rhetorical question, with the answer being a Bouwmeester > a Zegras. If so, I agree (and obviously also with you).

Harpers Hair

So projecting a Bouwmeester for Broberg while ignoring what the younger Zebras might become in his prime?

There are also happens to be a $9.25 million obstacle standing in the way of that scenario for the next 8 seasons.

jp

You should probably re-read danny’s post if you think he, or I, are saying Broberg WILL be Bouwmeester quality.

And I am projecting Zegras, to be a ~point per game, offense leaning, #1C. IMO Bouwmeester was more valuable than that player. It’s also true Zebras has a chance to be more (or less) in his prime than that projection.

The last part makes actually no sense.

Melman

possible roster construction is a fun way to kill time and think hockey in August.

However, I was driving through Kelowna yesterday when I spotted a large wooden chest strapped to the roof of a car and immediately thought of “The Box” and had to explain why I was suddenly laughing as we drove down the slow hell that is Harvey. I’m hopeful some of our favourite tales made it into your book Al, and if they didn’t I hope there’s a follow up book full of them out in time for Christmas!

Bling

Why does anyone want Kessel?

He’s not a first line level player any more. I’d rather have McDavid teeing up Draisaitl than Kessel on the powerplay. Kessel on the third line might be interesting, but even that carries a significant risk.

I really don’t think Kessel is a piece on a championship level club at this point in his career.

defmn

For me the answer is that I want – and have said this for some time on a number of occasions – Nuge mentoring Holloway and Puljujarvi on the third line.

I think McDavid & Kane both like to play with Yamamoto and Draisaitl in the middle with Hyman on LW leaves 2RW a question mark.

Godot fills that spot with Bourgault but I think he starts in Bakersfield not arriving until after Christmas. So where do you find an offensively capable RW on a one year contract (Kessel probably wants two) for what the Oilers can afford?

And from there you arrive at Kessel. 😉

Yes, it is not perfect. When you have no money the perfect answer is rarely an option.

pts2pndr

Derick Ryan was a nice fit on the right side with Draisaitl, small sample size not withstanding. He thinks the game well and is adept at the give and go.Assuming Hyman drives the net it should work quite well!

defmn

Let’s not do that please.

Redbird62

In that small sample size of 20 minutes, the opposition had 16 scoring chances to the Oilers 8. Yes the Oiler scored 2 for versus 1 against, but I don’t think what transpired is a strong endorsement that they would make a good line long term.

OriginalPouzar

Yes, I would say a 20 minute sample size (for the season) is indeed small. I would note they were near 40% in “expected goals” despite being 2-1 in actual goals….

jp

I really don’t think Kessel is a piece on a championship level club at this point in his career.

Why not?

IIRC Helm’s name was floated a time or two last summer to downvotes.

Folks though he was done and/or didn’t bring much, yet he just won a Cup.

defmn

On the excel spreadsheet that I use to track signings and line combinations I have Kessel pencilled in at $1.25 M which means that he can be sent to Bakersfield for a cap hit of $125,000 if the bet turns bad.

There may be better answers but for now this is the one that looks most promising to me.

jp

Yup, agree it looks good compared to most other possibilities in that price range (would be the same as Helm this year if that were the number).

Not a long term answer, but I think the upside is pretty high.

Harpers Hair

I wonder what would motivate Kessel’s decision on where or if he wants to play next season.

Likely money is not an issue and he has already got his name on the cup so perhaps lifestyle would be a primary consideration.

defmn

If winning a cup isn’t his primary consideration he should retire.

Harpers Hair

He might.

He recently had a child with his long time girlfriend who writes a food blog. and hails from Brazil.

Not sure an Edmonton winter would be up their alley.

Last edited 2 years ago by Harpers Hair
meanashell11

You do realize it snows in Brazil…….

Harpers Hair

It snows in Arizona too…but it doesn’t stick around for 6 months.

hunter1909

5 months.

You aren’t supposed to count that month after the snow melts and the ground is waterlogged.

Messier11

I have heard, that some players, even after winning a cup, want to win another one. I mean, I am sure not all do, but some do.

Harpers Hair

Then it’s most likely he would seek a contract in Colorado.

Messier11

True, but have you taken a look at the RW depth on Colorado? Do you see a fit there?

maudite

I love that you have to somehow find a way to put a Colorado comment in any place you can find.

Random oiler based comment: “Oilers should sign this undrafted peospect, his progression really appears to have taken a massive leap after he had a late growth spurt”

You: “good luck with that if Colorado decides they want to sign him!”

Portion of peanut gallery, that realizes there is no point remotely validating your comment: “bahaha, oh man is that saddly hilarious he just tried to jump the Colorado shark again for no rational reason or benefit”

There are more players in the league that might take reduced contract to improve chance of playing for a contending team than Colorado can possibly sign. Do you agree?

Last edited 2 years ago by maudite
winchester

What if they trade for a LTIR contract of around 5M?

Would that not open up enough money to get everyone signed?

Mayan Oil

Not how it works. Doesn’t give additional cap room in season per se, but having LTIR makes it difficult to do anything other than dollar in/dollar out trades in season. Puts a crimp in trying to do playoff rentals for example.

winchester

Klef and Smith already on LTIR so I understand the non accrual of cap space for the deadline ect.

Thier cap hit can then be opened up for another player on the roster. Thus, if Nurse was theoretically placed on LTIR does that space not open up? I don’t think I understand this properly.

What I was trying to get at, is a month ago I heard the Oilers could not do this or that but in fact they did manage to open up cap space and sign Kane at a reasonable price. So, is there some other way, technicality or otherwise, to make this roster work?

OriginalPouzar

Nurse being added to LTIR would, yes, theoretically open up apx $9.25MM of cap space while he remained on LTIR.

Acquire an LTIR contract that is not currently on the roster does not create any cap space. While it would allow the team to go over the cap by the additional amount of the cap hit acquired, it would also add that cap hit so it would be a next zero.

The only advantages of adding an LTIR contract would be:

1) receiving an asset for taking on the contract; and/or

2) if the player was out for the season but could come back during the playoffs.

There is no added cap benefit of adding an LTIR contract externally.

Gerta Rauss

A team can only be 10% over the cap in the offseason, so you have to figure that into the calculations

$82.5M x 10% = $8.25M

Smith and Klef = $6.3M…so in theory, they can add an LTIR contract approx $1.8M (ish)

That could,in theory, afford the Oilers a larger LTIR pool, but that doesn’t solve the Oilers problem

The Oilers will be using offseason LTIR, we know that for certain. So on the last day of training camp, the league will ask Kenny for his compliant roster, and he won’t be able to provide one.

The Oilers are over the cap.

To solve this problem, Kenny will assign his players to LTIR – this gives the Oilers a higher “upper cap limit”, but NOT more cap space

The task then for Kenny, will be to submit a roster of ACTIVE players to the league (min 20, max 23) that gets as close to $82.5M, but not over.

The league will then calculate the Oilers LTIR pool by adding the ACTIVE roster amount (>$82.5M) and their LTIR contracts ($6.3M), and the amount OVER the cap will be deemed their LTIR pool (roughly $6.3M give or take a few dollars)

And that is where the problem lies – adding another player on LTIR would increase their LTIR pool (to a maximum of $8.25M), but it does NOT increase their cap space, and it does not alter Kenny’s task of submitting a roster of ACTIVE players that doesn’t exceed $82.5M

LTIR is a lot to chew on, and it’s more complicated when discussing the nuances between in season and off season LTIR. 

I’ll leave it at that

Last edited 2 years ago by Gerta Rauss
Randle McMurphy

We may have our minor disagreements on the roster construction or the 13th forward or 7th defensemen, but on the whole, I think the group must be excited for what we are about to receive

I for one am grateful and STOKED to watch this all unfold in real time.

From a full year of Kane McDavid, to finally seeing what Holloway and Broberg can add, to a full year of a more well rounded Evan Bouchard, to a full year of healthy Darnell Nurse, and last but not least HOT SOUP AND STEW!!!

Peace Out Bro’s

What do we call it when Randle does not partake in either first or second breakfast???

THAT RIGHT!!…..Brunch.

#1260-10to2

Last edited 2 years ago by Randle McMurphy
Durag

Marko Tuomainen

MushedPeas

Wasn’t Gilbert a college boy?

Tarkus
MushedPeas

Ah. Gratz Had never clocked that.

Rando downvote gotta say lol

OriginalPouzar

A fantastic trade – that was “post-Belarus” and Tommy Gilbert was similar to Petry in how under-valued he was by a portion of the Oilers’ fan-base, in my opinion.

Randle McMurphy

“The Oilers have been far more active this century drafting kids from feeder leagues on their way to college. This is a long list, but I haven’t updated recently and it serves as a good reference piece for me. Slogathon begins, sorry if it’s boring.”

Never boring good sir.

Welcome respite in hockey’s dog days of summer.

The lengthy college list just brings pain for me; Either players who failed out, or players whose end as an Oiler was not pleasant.

Not a lot of joy in Mudville for me

Randle McMurphy

I would be more excited about a past and future PTO list than the college list.

I mean guys like Alex Chiasson and others would rank right up there with in the top 5 of the college list and delivered not only production but “value” with little or no investment on our part in terms of time or development cost

slopitch

Whats the diff between Holloway, Engras and Maata and say Savoie in your diff lists?

Randle McMurphy

Thank you for slotting JP appropriately, (in terms of reasonable expectations)

Who among this group is the most likely “riser” (playing regular top six minutes by the all-star break)

JP
Yamo
Holloway
McLeod

I say Yamamoto.

Last edited 2 years ago by Randle McMurphy
Randle McMurphy

But this is prefaced by the fact that I covet a STRONG third line and I’m willing to sacrifice some top six scoring in order to achieve it.

Holloway Nuge JP has potential.

Hyman Nuge JP is the real deal. (three players where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts )

Line 1
Line 2A
Line 2B

How strong would this line be defensively; Could they play a shut down role when the Oilers were up by one in the third period. That is one of the keys to winning in the playoffs imo

Last edited 2 years ago by Randle McMurphy
OriginalPouzar

JP and Yamamoto have played top 6 minutes on the right side almost exclusively for a while and I don’t see anyone on the roster set to pass them at this point unless Hyman is moving over to the right side (and until Bourgault makes that push which could come very soon but is more reasonably likely about 6-18 months away.

Yamamoto will almost assuredly start in the top six and, even if Jesse is at 3RW, I do think the majority of his minutes will be in the top 6.

I see McLeod as being groomed for 3C full time – he’ll split that duty with Nuge for now but I think the org sees him in that roll for a long time – as they should.

I could make an argument for Holloway to play: 3LW, 4LW, Condors 1LW or even NHL top 6LW. I think the later is unlikely any time soon (this season) and the rest really depends on who leaves the org for cap compliance (Foegele vs. Jesse vs. another).

Randle McMurphy

I think $10K is a sufficient hot dog slush fund.

Randle McMurphy

With this roster which is light across the board on defensive acumen and relying on 2 and 1/2 rookie defensemen, I don’t think we can expect our Goaltending tandem to be in the top ten in SV%.

Wins perhaps, but not SV%.

#ReasonableExpectations

OriginalPouzar

I’m very intrigued to see how Campbell will perform.

From what I’ve read/heard/learned, he was indeed performing at Vezina candidate levels for the first third of last season but he also performed at replacement levels for a third of the season. I believe the latter was related to when he was playing WITH and recovering from a broken rib which would mitigate the poor play.

I am hopeful that, if/when healthy, he is a top 10-15 starter but we’ll see.

A key is ensuring his health and energy and that coincides with confidence of the coaches to give Skinner a solid amount of starts – not just back to back games, etc. A true 50-32 game type split.

Skinner has 100% earned the opportunity to prove he’s ready for at least that role – if his play backs that up, it will be a boon for the team going forward.

Randle McMurphy

Nice roster, the only question now is who goes at the deadline to make room for Patrick Kane at 50% retained?

#YouKaneDoThisKenny

OriginalPouzar

50% retained and then another team involved to cut that remaining 50% in half again.

LTIR cap hell is LTIR cap hell and I would be shocked if the first order of business as the deadline approaches isn’t at least one veteran d-man.

Without any cap space (no banking during the regular season and no ability to pro-rate), structuring will be needed for one move let alone a 2nd move.

I do think they might be looking for a top 6 winger upgrade at the deadline but likely secondary to the d-man addition.

jp

Kane will also probably be too expensive in assets for Holland.

Someone will pay a 1st plus for a truly elite rental like Kane. Holland has never in his career sent a 1st out for a rental. Cap issues aside I think it’s almost certain he’ll be outbid in assets.

Victoria Oil

“This deals Warren Foegele WITH a pick”.

FTFY

I would be very happy if we got a 7th rounder back for Foegele, but unfortunately I can’t see us moving him without some kind of sweetener.

OriginalPouzar

As far as the defence and pairings go – yes, 100%, I think Samourkov, baring camp surprises/disappointments is on the roster, on merit (in addition to waivers eligible). Stay healthy young man.

I also do think that the pairings are in flux. I think that the coaches would love to keep that tough pairings duo in Nurse/Ceci but the overall structure of the D may require more balance. Also, it may make sense to have more balance generally and go to that pairing when needed – I mean not put that crazy grind on those two for a full season but having the knowledge that they can go to it at any time.

We know Nurse/Ceci and Kulak/Barrie “work” – we aren’t sure that Kulak/Barrie works with tougher minutes but they weren’t a true “3rd pairing”. Both Kulak/Barrie and Keith/Bouch played were given like 2nd/3rd pairing minutes behind that tough minutes top pair.

Now, can Broberg/Bouchard play the same minutes that Keith/Bouch did without leaking – it may be a tough ask so the minutes would need to be a bit easier putting more pressure on the Kulak/Barrie pairing.

They could try that or they could go for more balance and even have Buch with Nurse.

Nurse/Bouch
Kulak//Barrie
Broberg/Ceci

Obviously Ceci is more than a 3RD but this if for some balance – just a thought exercise.

jp

I think that the coaches would love to keep that tough pairings duo in Nurse/Ceci but the overall structure of the D may require more balance. Also, it may make sense to have more balance generally and go to that pairing when needed – I mean not put that crazy grind on those two for a full season but having the knowledge that they can go to it at any time.

I think this is highly likely.

Recall Woodcroft and Manson had the urgent task of getting the team back into a playoff spot and into the post season when they took over in February. No time for dicking around.

I think most/all pairing possibilities will get a look, likely going back to the shutdown pairing as they approach the playoffs.

OriginalPouzar

Ya, I think we agree with the likely/hopeful approach – not ask Nurse/Ceci to take 50% of TOI vs. elites for an 82-game stretch but deploy some more balanced pairings but, of curse, go to Nurse/Ceci for in-game adjustments (situational) and maybe for stretches here or there.

I’m not positive that the coaches won’t start with Nurse/Ceci though – I could see them going either way.

Klam

Nurse/Bouch
Kulak/ Barrie
Brogerg or Sammy/ Ceci

This is exactly how I am starting the season. More balance. Knowing I can run Nurse/Ceci in tough minutes and in third periods. Also might run Kulak/Bouch as second pair for tough minutes and in third periods based on needs. But allowing Ceci to mentor Broberg and Sammy for the beginning of the season allows them to see which one to keep and which one to move or they get a veteran later in the season if they need to.

godot10

Don’t overthink this.

Nurse Ceci
Kulak Bouchard
Broberg Barrie

By the playoffs…

Broberg and Kulak probably flipped.

I like Barrie with Broberg more than Ceci. Broberg ranginess will help Barrie. Barrie’s passing will help Broberg.

Randle McMurphy

Man!. This exercise really brings home the fine line that exists between being “Flush” and “having too much month left at the end of the money”

We had $21m in cap space just over a month ago.

OriginalPouzar

This deals Warren Foegele for a pick, and signs Phil Kessel to a value deal. It comes in with $10,000 to spare, mostly because Slater Koekkoek was added to LTIR. I like the forward group and the defense need only to hold on until the deadline. I mixed up the pairings, or more accurately didn’t adjust them, but it’s a good roster. Hated to sacrifice Foegele, I think he’s poised for a solid year.

22 man cap compliant roster that keeps Jesse and Barrie – that is something that is workable and practical. I don’t dislike.

LT, I don’ think there is any cap benefit to Keokkek on LTIR than waived and assigned, is there? Do you have a reason for going that route (if it is “permitted” somehow)?

While I do think that Foegele is a bit under-rated given his box-cars were almost exclusively bottom six and nominal PP2 time, and he’ll be “more consistent” in his 2nd year on the team, for cap structuring, Foegele out for a depth pick and no cap back is the play.

I’m cool with Kessel added – I’m not sure if Kessel in and Foegele out makes the team better but it saves $1.5MM (presumed) and that is the key. I’m not sure if 1RW is the play – my goodness that’s a defensive/responsible/2-way game difference from Jesse, right?

OriginalPouzar

No Bourgault as the WJC, as we expected and discussed yesterday, but we will get to see Munzenburger and, recall, he was VERY good in his 2 games back in December. I belive Maatta is also playing for Finland – I presume more of a depth role but, really, don’t know.

Todd Macallan

Maatta is likely 3C at most based on projections I’ve seen, most likely 4C. He did put up 1G, 2A in 2 games in a depth role in Dec., looking forward to seeing if he can continue his torrid pace!

OriginalPouzar

Thank you for that additional info.

I need to do more research on this player to be “in the know” – up and till I was corrected a week or two ago, I though he was just coming over to Vermont now and was playing in Europe. I didn’t realize he’s already been in NA for a season and was on the WJC team back in December.

OriginalPouzar

Damn there are alot of good names on that list from over the years – some real solid-plus NHLers like Petry and Greene and Nash to some solid tweeners in Jones and Laggesson and Khaira and look at all the recognizable names that are still, at least, prospects of interest – Kesselring, Kemp, Savoie, Munzenburger and, even, Brind’Amour.

OriginalPouzar

Dylan Holloway is going to have an NHL career, but if he scores around Reilly Smith levels (per 82 NHL games: 21-29-50) he’s going to play on a successful line a long time. His skating and passing skills are splendid and his shot is recovering to some point that hopefully resembles full throttle.

Would have to agree with most of this. His skating to go along with his size and motor and, from accounts, work ethic, maturity and already responsible two-way game, for me, means he has a high ceiling. It would be shocking if he didn’t have an NHL career and only injuries could put the kibosh on that.

50 points per likely “reads” disappointing to some but, alas, that is a solid NHL career and I think this is the type of player that will help teams win hard hockey games.

I do think he impacts the Oilers roster this season and reasonably projectable out of camp if a LW is moved out but, yup, he might be a call up (after being on the opening night roster for cap structuring purposes vis-a-vis his performance bonuses).

Thinking about his game and, yes, definite top 6 upside and likely a 3LW start but I do think his game can translate and have a positive effect at the NHL level on the 4th line. Yes, higher pedigree players can start on the 4th line and, in addition to offensive skill, he’s got size, speed, battle and motor – he can be useful on the 4th line while “learning the pro game” and being sheltered.

The issue there is I don’t want Janmark above the 4th line……

jp

The issue there is I don’t want Janmark above the 4th line……

Why? He’s been a 3rd line player his entire career.

OriginalPouzar

For me, a key to taking this team to the next level is to be deeper in the bottom six and, in particular, the 4th line – I want a fourth line that can play 5 on 5 minutes and make a positive impact here and there.

I think that Janmark is really a 3rd/4th line tweener and my hope is that he’s the 4LW to start the season and moves up to 3LW if injuries happen.

He’s approaching 30 and only had more than 25 points once. I acknowledge that PPG looks better than “25 points once” but being able to play games (and perform/produce) night in and night out is part of the “skill-set” and, at the end of the day, his production has been his production.

Its not the end of the world if he’s 3LW on opening night but not ideal, at least for my view of roster construction – which, of course, means nothing.

jp

Agree it would be great if they have the depth to keep Janmark on the 4th line.

Just noting that none of his previous coaches have played him 4th line minutes.

I looked since my original reply and he’s played between 17:05 and 14:10 per game every season on his career. He’s played 2nd or 3rd line minutes, not 3rd/4th (and it’s the same at 5v5).

Like I said, great if he’s on Woodcroft’s 4th line, but this is not a player who ‘should’ only play there.

Redbird62

He actually scored more than 25 twice – 15/16 – 29 points 16/17 – 34 points. And for at least the 3rd time, you seem to blame a player for the NHL being shut down for Covid. In his entire career, he has not dressed for a total of 31 games and been on IR once for total of 2 weeks. In 19/20 he played 62 of 69 Dallas games. In 20/21, he played all 56 games that the schedule allowed. Some of the 15 games he missed last season were due to having Covid. Otherwise he is a durable player.

OriginalPouzar

Ughhh, the first paragraph should read “high floor”, not “high ceiling”.

Chris!

I, for one, do not hate this roster.

defmn

This is my favourite of all the ones LT has posted for discussion this summer. Not sure about Shore or precise RFA numbers but that is nitpicking. I do think there is a strong chance Shore loses out to a PTO at TC.