The Edmonton Oilers don’t have many defensemen in the prospect pipeline. There is talent here, I have two of these names inside the Oilers top-six prospects right now, three in the top nine. The outlier is Luca Munzenberger. He was drafted No. 90 overall in 2021, yet every summer we talk sparingly of him due to lack of information. I’ve been down this road before. The thing to remember is we don’t know what we don’t know. It’s important with a player like Munzenberger.
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: NHL teams that are best positioned to take advantage of the 2024 free-agent watershed
- Lowetide: New Oilers CEO Jeff Jackson promises innovation. What will it look like?
- Lowetide: The 5 best pro hockey players not in the NHL
- Lowetide: What Blackhawks can learn from Oilers about winning with a generational talent
- Lowetide: For Oilers in 2023-24, a more aggressive in-season approach is likely
- Lowetide: Why skating ability has such an impact on NHL Draft scouting and success
- Lowetide: What Oilers’ Jeff Jackson hire could mean for front-office’s future
- Lowetide: The 5 most impressive NHL offseason moves and what they mean for 2023-24
- Lowetide: Oilers sign forward Ryan McLeod to 2-year extension: What it means for Edmonton
- Lowetide: Connor McDavid, the Art Ross and challenging Wayne Gretzky’s record
- Lowetide: How Oilers’ pro scouting upgrade helped elevate team in 2022-23
- Lowetide: Projecting Oilers defenceman Evan Bouchard’s points for 2023-24
- Lowetide: Oilers’ graduate a strong group of prospects to pro this fall
- Lowetide: Oilers’ late-summer options intriguing with cap crunch and lingering UFAs
- Lowetide: What are the Edmonton Oilers’ keys to success in 2023-24?
- Lowetide: How Oilers’ veteran roster, cap issues could impact Raphael Lavoie
- Lowetide: What the Oilers are getting in 2023 NHL Draft pick Beau Akey
- DNB: The Oilers roster is improved but evolution must continue into next season
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers top 20 prospects, summer 2023
- DNB: 10 questions with director of amateur scouting Tyler Wright
LUCA MUNZENBERGER
I honestly don’t think we as a group cover players like Luca Munzenberger well. Why? It isn’t possible. You would need someone on the ground who could count the even-strength scoring numbers for the entire league, and no one in Vermont blogs or writes on the Oilers.
The eye test is really all we have. He isn’t an end-to-end rusher, he doesn’t send cherry passes to the breakout centre, he doesn’t shoot the puck like Sheldon Souray.
When in doubt, we look to math. The math is incomplete, the math is vague, the math is flaccid. He’s the perfect storm for impossible math analysis: Higher pick, college player, shy offensively. There’s just so little you can sink your teeth into with this player. I have found, over many years, the best way to handle this type of player and situation is to lay out the math anyway and then reinforce with accurate verbal. It isn’t perfect, and it’s easy to bury a player like Munzenberger. It would be unwise.
- May 21, 2017: Lowetide blog. “RD Vincent Desharnais. It is difficult to get much information on players like Desharnais (college men who play a defensive style) but what we read about him this season was solid. I’m not sure when he plans to turn pro but tracking him is going to be an exercise in frustration during his NCAA time.”
- December 14, 2016, Lowetide blog. “LD Markus Niemelainen. If I call this player ‘David Musil with speed’ he is sure to get buried by Oilers fans who read this blog, but that is a very reasonable assessment based on what we know at this time—and represents a worthwhile prospect. He needs to deliver offense though. ANY offense.”
- October 19, 2016, Lowetide blog. “LD William Lagesson. He is now 20, so we can begin discussing his turning pro and pushing up from the AHL. Lagesson looked fabulous at the WJs but we don’t see his college games. Verbal from obscure spots is positive.”
This is what we have to deal with when discussing this type of player. It isn’t always a college shutdown defenceman, but the NCAA stats pack is many miles from satisfactory. All the money in these programs and no one tracks enough publicly to get an accurate view of jack diddly.
WHAT CAN WE SAY?
He is a quality skater, knows how to close gaps and defend. He is 6.03, 198 and turns 21 in late November. He’s a LH blue. In an article for The Athletic around New Year’s 2021, Daniel Nugent-Bowman quoted University of Vermont coach Todd Woodcroft: “he’s like Big Bird, but a mean Big Bird. Like a Big Bird that’s going to jam his stick down your throat.”
You can see why that has appeal, right? If Munzenberger’s speed and length make him an effective defender once he turns pro, he’ll have a chance at an NHL future. He’s a nasty piece of business and that has appeal to an NHL team.
I think he’s going to need to make at least some progress at moving the puck. No one expects a 25-point season with Vermont next year, but a small spike in points would be desirable.
The internet values strong opinions most of all, but sometimes it’s better to admit the picture isn’t quite clear. This is the case with Luca Munzenberger. I used to do this (more later) because it’s all we have. For Munzenberger, here are the regular defenders for Vermont, their GP totals, plus-minus number and level of experience (freshman, sophomore, junior, senior) in 2022-23.
- LH Joseph Leahy (25 games, senior, age 25) -4
- LH Philip Tornqvist (32 games, freshman, age 20) -4
- RH Carter Long (36 games, senior, age 24) -7
- LH Luca Munzenberger (28 games, sophomore, age 19—20 in November 2022) -9
- RH Eric Gotz (36 games, senior, age 24) -9
- RH Robbie Stucker (23 games, senior, age 23) -9
- LH Ralfs Bergmanis (36 games, freshman, age 20) -12
I used 20 games as the line in the sand for regulars. This is a most unsatisfactory way to look at this player, but it’s all we have. Carter Long and Robbie Stucker have played with Munzenberger while he has been at Vermont. We can assume that Munzenberger is the youngest in the group playing tougher minutes and that his numbers are about average in the group. What the Oilers are hoping for is a spike, offensively and defensively. What fans are hoping for is something in the numbers that indicates progress.
JEFF PETRY, NO. 7 PROSPECT WINTER 2008
All words and music below lifted directly from my post at Lowetide from December 7, 2008.
Jeff Petry is one of three defenders who grew up in the NCAA that we often compare to each other. I’ve always slotted them in this order: Taylor Chorney, Jeff Petry, Cody Wild. This winter, that changes.
This season both Chorney and Petry are struggling and Wild is playing well but finds himself listed as a “healthy scratch” far too often to move up the prospect depth chart. Let’s look closer at Petry.
Petry drew all kinds of attention one year ago and was named to the NCAA West Regional All-Tournament Team, the CCHA All-Rookie team and won Michigan State’s Top Rookie and Outstanding Defenseman awards.
This season more was expected, on the PP, EVs and PK. Regarded as a “complete player”, scouts say he handles the puck well, has great skating ability, can get physical and is improving defensively. I wasn’t convinced of Petry coming off his season one year ago, for the following reasons:
- Reports of some gaps defensively
- Reports of inconsistent play. Coach Rick Comley: “I thought that on some nights he was our best player and other nights, he played more like a freshman.”
- He started his college career much later than most top quality prospects.
- Reports that are not consistent re: his foot speed.
- Offensive numbers are good but unspectacular.
One year ago, at age 20 (remember he’s a freshman at age 20) he goes 42gp, 3-21-24 which ranks him 9th on his team in scoring (2nd among defenders). He is +2 on a team that is +12 overall and there are no less than 5 defenders with a better plus minus number. His point total (24) meant he was in on 17.8% of the Spartans 135 goals.
This season, at 21, the offensive numbers show improvement (as a percentage of team offense) which is the main reason he is ranked at #7. Petry is still back of the pack in plus minus. He is currently 18gp, 1-6-7 which ranks him 5th (tie) on his team (leads the defensemen), he’s -11 (on a team that is -23 overall). There are 3 defenders with signficantly better plus minus numbers, but two of them are freshman so it’s unlikely they’re facing the same level of competition. Petry’s point total (7) means he has been in on 24% of the Spartans’ 29 goals. That number (24%) is quite high and central to his value at this time. He’s a very good college offensive defenseman, not far from Tom Poti territory if he can sustain it.
With the offensive ability as a backdrop, I had earlier ranked Petry 4th overall for winter 2008. A big part of the equation had to do with how he was progressing defensively but I misread the plus minus numbers. In order to avoid confusion (mine) again, here is the plus minus number for each Spartan defender along with their status (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior) which is an aid when attempting to estimate we have for toughness of minutes:
- Brock Shelgren (fresh) +1
- Ryan Turek (junior) -3
- Matt Crandell (freshman) -4
- Brandon Gentile (senior) -7
- Justin Johnston (junior) -8
- Jeff Petry (soph) -11
- Tim Buttery (fresh) -13
We know from reports that Petry is facing tough opposition. He played with freshman Matt Crandell this weekend which may speak to the coach attempting to work a promising young player in with a trusted veteran. The fact remains Petry isn’t getting the desired results in a season when the coach was relying on him. I don’t know how you can put that in a positive light and have no interest in trying.
Back to the offense: 24% (of overall offense) is a pretty high number for a sophomore defender, even considering his age. Here are the three college kids as sophomore’s for comparison:
- Petry 24.1%
- Chorney 20.2%
- Wild 18.4%
Looking at the game summaries and boxscores (Michigan State has a really good site) it seems to me that Petry is playing monster minutes and that may also be impacting his effectiveness. Also helping the downward spiral is goalie Jeff Lerg, whose SP is down (.912 this season, .898 in conference) from his career number (.922 when the season began).
This is obviously going to be a trying season for him (Michigan State is being outscored 54-29 in 18 games) and it’s going to be even more difficult to rank him (as some have done) as the best prospect in the Oilers system. Guy Flaming over at Hockey’s Future has always been very high on him, which I suspect comes from talking to the scouts. Quoting Guy: “Petry isn’t really lacking in any one area; he can skate, pass (21 assists last year), shoot (95 mph shot un the USHL All-Star game), makes safe decisions under pressure, can play physical and he’s still maturing. Where once he was a gangly specimen, all arms and legs, he is now physically thicker and stronger, although he’s still not tipping the scales at the 200 lb mark despite what the MSU Spartans suggest on their team site. He is not an elite defensive prospect, but Petry is still a player who is projected to be a top-pairing contributor at the NHL level.”
Petry is the first player on this winter’s top 20 whose current in-season performance is as much about negatives as positives. It’s fair then to suggest that there is a distinct gap between top 6 and the players who follow them. The math tells us Petry as a defensive player is not tracking on a level commensurate with what we’d associate with a top rated player in the system, but his offense implies he is ahead of the other college (Chorney and Wild now pro) kids we have been comparing him to for a couple of years. I think it’s safe to say that “draft steal” might be a bit of an overstatement at this time.
That was some fine Football in the Woman’s Semi between England and the host country Australia. The Matildas played with heart and courage came so close to tying it up. One thing I’ll be glad when the World Cup is over is the Canadian team commercial content with your in my face! Your Dissing me! Who came up with this strategy to win Canadian Soccer fans over a 1st year university group that’s angry at the world and their parents.
NHL offseason 1951.
https://twitter.com/oldcanadaseries/status/1691671651232989366?s=20
Skyler Brind’Amour signs with Florida.
https://theoilrig.ca/2023/08/15/skyler-brindamour-no-longer-with-the-edmonton-oilers-organization/
Come on now. It’s an AHL deal with the Charlotte Checkers.
What was it you said about his higher scoring teammate De Jong yesterday?
Not only is this not an NHL deal, this has been known since April and the Oilers were not interested in signing this player
He clearly wanted to play hockey near home, rather than in Bakersfield. He had the ability and means to make that lifestyle choice.
But did he piss on anyone’s lawn?
Someone show Nurse this clip lol.
https://youtube.com/shorts/S8cW9QwywS4?feature=share
with all this recent talk of mr petry being traded i cannot help but observe the capfriendly of the amazing YZERPLAN.
Jake Walman (3.4 x 3) – Mo Sieder (great talent who will be very good for a long time)
Ben Chiarot (4.75×3) – Justin Holl (3.4×3)
Shane Gostisbehere (4.125×1) – Jeff Petry (2.34×2)
Olli Maata (3 x 2)
that is a grim blue line and it is also very old.
chiarot is 32
ghost bear is 30
holl is 31
petry is 35
walman is 27 and we will see if last years performance was lightning in a bottle or if he continues it.
maata is 28 but i dont know if you want your #7 to make 3 milli to sit in the press box.
perhaps kenny is cooking after all with most players within their value.
Simon Edvinsson and William Wallinder warming up in the bullpen.
The Ben Chiarot acquisition is perplexing,
Yzerman is proving to be vastly overrated as a GM
Coaches with exceptional goalies sometimes get overrated while coaches with poor ones get lambasted then fired.
For GMs, the director of amateur scouting is their goal keeper.
Hockey is mostly goalie. GM’ing is mostly drafting.
Poor drafting sunk the Yzerplan rebuild.
2015 was the deepest draft in years. Despite only missing their second round pick, the Wings have absolutely nothing from that draft.
From 2015-19, they had six first round picks.
Let’s say you’re the GM of a non-playoff team during a rebuild. With 3 of your 1st round picks, you lose the player to waivers including a #6 ov, a #19 from 2015, and a 20th.
With your three other first round picks, you get a star defenseman and a 3rd line centre at #9.
How’s your rebuild going?
For 100 points, no cheating here, who was drafted with the Wings 2015 2nd round pick?
For another 100 points, who did they trade their 2015 2nd round pick for?
Here’s a hint. He’s the Detroit version of Mathew Barzal except he’s actually scored at a higher rate than Barzal for the past 3 seasons.
Why 2015-2019? I assume you’re trying to relate this to Tyler Wright, but he was scouting director from 2014-19.
I started at 2015 because I was talking about how Detroit struck out in 2015, the best NHL draft class in the league’s history.
What a draft class.
I mean you’ve got your favorite player Gavrikov who was taken in the 6th round with
Mangiapane and Marino.
Kirill Kaprizov in the 5th.
Sebastian Aho, Roope Hintz, Rasmus Anderson, and Vince Dunn in the second round.
Rantanen at 10th ov.
McDavid and Eichel, first and second.
The Oilers who didn’t draft until the fourth round after McDavid, picked up 3 defensemen who’ve all played over 200 games in Marino, Bear, and Jones.
The Wings didn’t find a single player who’s hit 200 games in the best draft class in the history of the game.
Yeah, that is funny that 2015 is the only year Detroit didn’t find a 200 game player going back 20 years.
Looks like there are 52 200+ game players from the 2015 draft (so far), so 1.7 per team.
The Oilers did reallyl well to draft 3 of the 19 from rounds 4/5/6/7.
Sorry, maybe I missed something… but how does DET’s 2015 draft (arguably not far off BOS, truth be told) equate with Yzerman’s drafting for TBY in 2015?
2015 NHL draft by TBY:
Steve Yzerman
Tampa Bay Lightning
General Manager
May 25, 2010 – Sep. 11, 2018
Source: https://www.capfriendly.com/staff/steve-yzerman/drafted
It doesn’t.
I was referring to the paucity of prospects in the system when Yzerman was hired by Detroit in 2019 to do their rebuild.
The Wings currently have what Seider and Larkin as the only players on the roster that were drafted prior to Yzerman’s hire.
That’s a tough rebuild.
While I agree that some of his targets and the dollars given are suboptimal, it all paints a clear picture of the plan: buy time for Edvinsson, Wallinder, and ASP (among others) to develop and slowly introduce them into the lineup as contracts expire. All of those contracts expire just as Edvinsson and Wallinder will need new contracts.
Kent Hughes having one hell of a summer.
https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/the-canadiens-trade-jeff-petry-to-the-detroit-red-wings/c-345596176
By parking Petry for a few days and retaining salary he’s gained a former second round pick RHD and a 4th.
The Habs now have 21 picks in the next two drafts.
He should also be able to flip Casey DeSmith for another pick.
Lindstrom player card per Capfriendly
6’2″ 187 lbs
Right shot D
2nd round pick in 2017 38 OV
$950k cap hit waiver eligible
Hughes, or Groton?
Old Canada Series
@oldcanadaseries
The original Boston Pizza and Spaghetti House in Edmonton, Alberta in the 1960s. Named after Bill Boston, a random neighbour living near the location.
(Click for photos)
I recall taking #1 son there for pizza after movies at the nearby theatre.
https://twitter.com/oldcanadaseries/status/1691237939475333121?s=20
I’m assuming that was the BP’s at Whyte and 108th and the theatre you were referring to was the Varscona.
Nope.
It was at 118th Avenue and 124 Street.
I can’t recall the name of the theatre.
Was it the Roxy?
Yes.
Thanka.
The Roxy was on 107th Ave and 124 St.
Yes..I recall that now.
Do you remember which one was on 118th?
Found it.
Towne Cinema.
Close to the Burger King.
You are correct. It was the Towne Cinema. Saturday morning cartoons on screen for 25¢. Ballad of Cable Hogue played there forever.
I grew up about 5 doors down from that Boston Pizza in the 60s. Went to Prince Charles School. The BP became the hangout/meeting place all through Jr. High School in Sherbrooke. Lots of teenage memories in that room.
Awesome story.
Thanks.
I also grew up within walking distance of Boston Pizza and Towne Cinema. Also went to Sherbrooke. There was another place nearby called Vienna Pizza. Used to go there late night for a half-loaf.
Just looked at the photos in the link in the original post in this thread. Yes, that was the place! It still looked like that in the 70s. I had absolutely no idea that that was the original Boston Pizza.
@swiller16
“So when he went to apply for a business license, he submitted three names, Acropolis Pizza, Parthenon Pizza, and then just wrote down Boston Pizza.”
Why? No one really knows, Fuoco said.
“His neighbor was a Bruins fan, so maybe that was it,”
Official:
https://www.goelks.com/2023/08/15/edmonton-elks-mutually-part-ways-with-president-and-ceo-victor-cui/
Finally! He should have never hired Chris Jones to a 5 hat job!
Farhan Lalji
@FarhanLaljiTSN
While the departure was mutually negotiated, my understanding is that it was initiated & driven by the board. Knowing the club’s history, they will do everything possible to avoid specifics. I think given the state of the franchise the public deserves some answers. #Elks
Yup. Vic is the fall guy for a whole mess of incompetence and I imagine ‘personalities’
Like the Oilers for a long time they make running a team decently look as hard as developing nuclear fusion
It all began IMO with the hiring of Ed Hervey and subsequently Kavis Reed.
Both known for some unsavoury behaviour.
And yet Jones, the man truly responsible for this mess, still has his job.
We’ll see how long that lasts.
Because of the cap on management and coaching staffs in the CFL, they are likely stuck with him.
https://3downnation.com/2022/10/24/cfl-operations-cap-to-increase-to-pre-pandemic-levels-in-2023-report/
I forgot that it included management in the CFL.
Damning with faint praise.
https://3downnation.com/2023/08/15/edmonton-elks-give-chris-jones-vote-of-confidence-following-departure-of-president-victor-cui/
Dave Naylor
@TSNDaveNaylor
I absolutely believe that private ownership will be on the table for consideration this off-season as the team will need to be re-capitalized. And I don’t believe the @CFL
would be inclined to stand in the way. #Elks @GoElk
Speaking of Petry:
NHL News
@PuckReportNHL
·
51s
BREAKING: The Red Wings have acquired Jeff Petry (50% retained) from Montreal for Gustav Lindstrom and a 2025 4th (later of DET or BOS).
@CraigBaird
Bobby Baun has died.
Born in 1936 in Lanigan, SK, he played 17 seasons in the NHL from 1956 to 1973.
In his career, he won two Memorial Cups in 1955 & 1956 and the Stanley Cup in 1962, 1963, 1964 & 1967.
With a keen business sense, other players sought his advice on contracts.
This eventually ended his time with the Maple Leafs, as he joined the Oakland Seals in the 1967-68 season.
His career ended in the fifth game of the 1972-73 season when he suffered a neck injury, his leg was broken and a skate cut his neck.
Teammate Tim Horton found him outside the bus and carried him to the hospital where he was found to be hemorrhaging.
He received several pints of blood and was put in a bed next to his wife, who was giving birth to their third child.
In the 1980s, Baun organized an NHL alumni association to investigate the NHL pension plan. After 17 seasons, he found he was only receiving $7,622 per year.
Unfortunately, other players offered little support.
Later, he was proven right when issues with the pension plan were discovered by Carl Brewer during an audit.
RIP Bobby. I found this interesting in their inaugural season Oakland had 27 players who got into action of those 27 3 were from the USA with only 1 Albertan 2 BCers and a whopping total of 7 from the province of Saskatchewan. The rest of the roster comprised of players from Quebec and Ontario.
When men were men. 😎
R.I.P.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
A tale first told by Plato.
Yeah but it’s garbage.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/02/hard-times-dont-make-strong-soldiers-warrior-myth/
I said this last off-season and will say it again – if only there was a way to get Munzenburger (and Maatta) out of Vermont. Its really tough for a “non high end d-man” to develop on a team that struggles as a group so much.
Unfortunately, there is no real way as he’s not ready to turn pro, even on an AHL deal, I don’t think.
My only eyes on this player has been at the World Juniors and those views were heartening. Of course, Germany is not a strong team but Munzenburger played a primary role on the team and, to my eye, looked good – a big/long, good skating, 2-way d-man that is physical with offensive instincts. He was effective against high end peers.
I’m not sure when, but he could have an uptick in development when he’s got more team support around him – that might not be until pro but we’ll find out in due course.
Very pleased that Lowetide will be returning to AM radio. Nation Network’s parent company is Playmaker Capital, described as “a digital sports media company that lives at the intersection of sports, betting, media and technology.” Fair enough – but I wonder: If NN is part of the Sports 1440 JV, should we expect the same amount of betting “content” as on Oilers Nation?
IIRC, Vermont’s was a popgun offense with only one player above a p/p/g last season. But yes, one would still like Luca to reach the second floor in production.
As an aside, Vermont is also the home of Phish who, more than three decades ago, gifted the world with the greatest southern rock song not actually written by someone from the South. Please to enjoy.
The Weight.
Angel From Montgomery
Allow me to clarify: southern rock jam.
It was much worse than that, unfortunately.
22-23 leading scorer was Isak Walther 36 9-10-19
21-22 leading scorer was Philip Lagunov 35 8-8-16
Popgun offense is being kind.
Man would it be nice to have Jeff Petry back in Oiler silks.
I was thinking the same thing.
Puckiq.com paints a pretty bleak picture though, especially for a 35-year-old who has 2 expensive years left on his contract.
I don’t have those figures, but a Broberg/Petry third pair would be nice. And of course this scenario would need MTL to retain as much salary as possible.
I guess, but that’s a 30% slice of an otherwise (and overall) solid season. And even with the poor DFF% this season he was 14-11 GF/GA vs. elites.
Also, you are presumably aware his salary is under $5M now with Dubas retaining?
Just traded to Detroit.
I don’t think there was any chance he was agreeing to come to Western Canada – he wanted the East and he wanted the US.
He’s also turning 36 in-season and is signed through next season when he’s turning 37.
He was one of my favorite Oilers when he was here and was a pure stud for a few years in Montreal – his best days are behind him.
No, no, the next shoe to drop will be a move on to Edmonton (further retention) at $1.17M
LoL
We laugh, but by agreeing to a bottom tier team, the Petry(s) should expect to move 1 more time before that contract expires
Don’t think so.
He has a NTC and Detroit is home.
His dad pitched for the Tigers.
If a contender comes calling this trade deadline or next, I doubt Stevie turns down offers for fear of upsetting Dan Petry
Bingo he recieved his wish from the Habs G.M. For that cap hit I’d definitely take him on my team.
Yes, most likely. Though perhaps Yzerman can get them into a playoff spot (he appears to be trying). Or maybe he does Petry a solid and doesn’t move him along.
Already had the pie sliced twice by 50% and then another 50% – can’t slice it a third time.
I use the same justification for eating pie in real life.
I was just joking (i agree it was extremely unlikely he’d move out West), though I did forget about the maximum 2 retentions rule.
I think it was 25% and then 50% but the same result. No third slice.
Yeah, I was thinking of Petry and John Marino when reading your opening paragraph.
It is so hard (impossible) to know about these college D based on numbers.
I suspect Munzenberger is a better prospect than his boxcars show (based mostly on tools, draft position and his WJr role), but we’ll just need to wait and see. Seeing some more offense definitely would be nice though.
John Farinacci would look good as the 4th line C
Set to become a UFA today.
Really hard for me to state that he’d look good at 4C given, well, he’s never played a pro game and we really have no idea if he is currently, or ever, an NHL player.
Would be happy to bring him in to camp to compete – would probably require an ELC but I don’t see the harm even if he’s a tweener.