The “Wayne Cashman” has yet to appear

by Lowetide
Teemu Hartikainen photo by Rob Ferguson

I am a forever fan of Teemu Hartikainen. After he was drafted, Kevin Prendergast said “he comes to play. He competes. He’s got pretty good hands but his skating has to improve a bit. He’s like a poor man’s Thomas Holstrom in that he competes all over the ice” and every word was true. He played a gritty game, could win battles and had an idea about where goals were scored.

TH lacked footspeed, and by the time he was ready for the NHL all of the men who were then on his draft day had sailed on down the line. Hartikainen was an orphan, a Leaf briefly, and then gone. More’s the shame.

Edmonton signed Connor Brown over the summer, and I’ve been looking at some of his numbers lately. Did you know that Connor Brown has a monster takeaway number at five-on-five? He’s no Wayne Cashman but this guy can help.

THE ATHLETIC!

WAYNE CASHMAN

Wayne Cashman was a big part of a famous line in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. He was the winger who dug pucks out for Phil Esposito and Kenny Hodge. It worked like a charm, with help from Bobby Orr on defense.

The best Wayne Cashman comparable (imo) in Oilers history was Ryan Smyth. Rugged in all areas, terrific battler along the wall, sacrificed life and limb to make a play.

Can Brown fill that Ryan Smyth role?

THE CONNOR BROWN TAKEAWAY NUMBERS

Turnovers are in imperfect stat. I’m not certain the people counting them are certain what they’re looking for in a game. That said, it is what we have. Here are the five-on-five turnovers per 60 for the last three seasons among skill forwards via Natural Stat Trick:

  1. Leon Draisaitl 2.98 per 60
  2. Connor Brown 2.67 per 60
  3. Connor McDavid 2..57 per 60
  4. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2.13 per 60
  5. (Kailer Yamamoto) 2.08 per 60
  6. (Jesse Puljujarvi) 1.75 per 60
  7. Zach Hyman 1.37 per 60
  8. Evander Kane 1.27 per 60

The addition of Brown gives the team a nice boost in this area, even if the counting people aren’t good counting people. I’ve been of a mind to keep Zach Hyman on the McDavid line, but if Brown is a Cashman level digger (I’ve seen him play but there’s a level of detail missing until a player is seen on the team you’ve watched for years) then maybe the ideal lines are:

  • Evander Kane-Connor McDavid-Connor Brown
  • Nuge-Leon Draisaitl-Zach Hyman
  • Dylan Holloway-Ryan McLeod-Warren Foegele
  • Mattias Janmark-Derek Ryan-Raphael Lavoie

Still uncertain about the fourth line, Jason Gregor was on the Lowdown yesterday and threw out the idea of a fourth line consisting of Janmark, Brandon Sutter and Lavoie, with Derek Ryan heading to Bakersfield. Plenty of stories to follow in training camp this year.

At noon today, we’ll have plenty to talk about on Sports 1440. The Blue Jays lose against Texas, tightening the wildcard race even more. Aaron Rodgers goes down with a devastating injury and yet the Jets beat the Bills! Mark Cannizzaro from the New York Post will talk the wild and crazy MNF game and Cam Lewis from Blue Jays Nation will give us the rundown on the pennant race. @Lowetide on twitter, drop comments here and text 1.833.401.1440. Talk soon!

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OriginalPouzar

Stauffer asks Holland about the need to find a 4C and the PTOs. Holland confirms that a center would be ideal. He does speak about Sutter would be ideal if he’s anything close to how he was in his prime. “Exactly what we are looking for”. Anxious to watch him in the preseason games.

Gagner and Erne are pros and have been around pro hockey. Lots of b

“We’ll bring these guys in and see what they can do”.

”we are going to make some tough decisions if ther players force us to.” I presume that’s a Lavoie and waivers thing.

He did say at the end “I’m anxious to see what Lavoie can do”.

Genjutsu

We all are.

It’s go.time for the Oilers and Mr. Lavoie.

Harpers Hair

Shane Wright granted the ability to play in the AHL next season if he doesn’t make the Seattle roster.

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2023/09/shane-wright-officially-granted-exemption-can-play-in-the-ahl-this-season.html

Harpers Hair

Video of Jesse trying to walk after his hip surgeries.

https://www.iltalehti.fi/nhl/a/5f0d7834-1a0b-4210-bbb1-dc5cb4359a22

Bag of Pucks

A tough TOUGH day for Karen Rodgers.

Turns out Ayahuasca and Invermectin isn’t as effective for the pliability of the elderly athlete as stretching and hydration.

Who knew?

Johnny skid

Settle down Karen!

OriginalPouzar

Edmonton Oilers

@EdmontonOilers
·
58m

The #Oilers have signed forward Adam Erne to a professional tryout agreement (PTO).

OriginalPouzar

Last season in Detroit:

Killed against elites
Killed against mid
Killed against grid

Not a center

Not a right shot

Not an NHL player on a good team.

OriginalPouzar

Oilers might be competing with Canes for PTOs.

I don’t even have this guy competing with Pederson/Lavoie/Sutter/Gagner, I have him in the Cagguila/Malone/Hamblin group.

godot10

#ABL The Oilers apparently want Anybody But Lavoie. I wish somebody would tell us the story about what Lavoie did that Woodcroft won’t even consider him.

Side

Wouldn’t you want to do tryouts with as many potential NHL players as possible in case you have an injury, or 2, or 3?

godot10

Woodcroft had a disastrous training camp last year. The team was NOT ready for the season, and got off to a horrible start. Exactly how many PTO’s does one need? Has beens are not going to really help against Vegas and Colorado. Coach up the young guys.

jp

They went 7-3 to start the season. 115 point pace.

jp

Also, Colorado has 3 PTOs like the Oilers. All has beens or never weres.

Harpers Hair

Kirivanta played 70 games plus 15 playoff games for Dallas last season.

Saku Maenalana played 64 games plus 5 playoff games for Winnipeg.

Peter Holland is nothing more than a courtesy to a player who wants to get reestablished on North America.

jp

Yes, I know,

2 of the Oilers PTOs have been NHL regulars, the 3rd is trying to reestablish himself.

Were you going somewhere with this?

OriginalPouzar

A Jets player from last year that played 2 minutes per game less than Gagner last year is cited – good grief.

Harpers Hair

Sutter was dreadful his last two seasons in Vancouver…too slow for the NHL and that was before long Covid.

And tell your buddy that Gagner was only able to get into 48 games for a poor Jets team last season and zero in the playoffs while the big Finn played 64 regular season and 5 playoff games for a contender while Sam ate popcorn.

OriginalPouzar

Same with Carolina except they have 5 PTOs – the org that can do no wrong.

Side

How was Woodcroft’s training camp disastrous last year?

OriginalPouzar

The Oilers started the season playing short – a short roster plus a couple of short term injuries – i’m not sure that’s on the coach.

They started off 2-3 and then won 5 in a row so were 7-3 – now sure that’s a horrible start.

Anything after that has zero to do with Woody’s training camp, right?

Tarkus

Are you saying that a roster spot will not be handed to him, and that he has to Erne it?

Reja

Maybe Yzerman owned Erne a favour.

Scungilli Slushy

G n R. And not the band. He’s in the book!

Easiest path. ‘No cap room, flat cap!’. Come quickly analytics department

jp

Tony Brar@TonyBrarOTV

2021 first-round pick Xavier Bourgault looked strong in the team’s scrimmage this morning. His skating really stood out; excellent edge work and agility. Appears to have put on some size this off-season. #Oilers

Ryan

Bourgault’s a really smart offensive player. If one of 29 or 97 decide that they like playing with him, he could break the AHL NHLe like Yamamoto.

jp

Yeah, and it seems like he did his work in the summer.

meanashell11

Oilers sign Adam Erne to PTO.

https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/release-oilers-sign-adam-erne-to-pto

My oldest son used to play against and on summer teams with him back in the day. He’s never been that great and was a bit of a dick when he was young. Not sure why the Oilers did this. He’s a left wing. We seem to have a few of those.

jp

WAYNE CASHMAN

Gheez, is it Draisaitl?

Not a style comp at all, but I just looked and his number is 6th in the league (of 417 forwards >1000 minutes).

Brown is 17th
McDavid 21st

Huh.

YYCOil

Is Evander Kane our Cashman?

Reja

I thought it could be Holloway but Woody couldn’t find a fit for him.

jp

My goodness Reja, Cashman didn’t play his first full (51 games) NHL season until he was 23. Holloway played 51 last season as a 21 year old. Give the player and coach half a chance.

Reja

Totally different era only 6 teams back then what’s that 130-140 jobs not many young players walked right into the league. Fast forward too 2024 you need value from ELC because 75% of the cap is going to 10 or less players.

Harpers Hair

This.
The timeline to be an established NHL player is MUCH shorter than it was decades ago.

OriginalPouzar
dulock
Justthestatsman

I shouldn’t surprised given the prospect pool, but 15 of the 25 on the Rookie Camp Roster are Camp Invites. Seems like a lot.

Psyche

Someone needs to let the Oilers media folks in on the well kept secret, that Medicine Hat is in Alberta, and not Saskatchewan! 😉 Lol

dessert1111

I don’t think this will happen, but here’s what I’d like to see tried:

Kane-McDavid-Brown

Puts McDavid’s old buddy on his wing, gives him a soft landing spot, and everyone on the line would have a defined, complementary role.

Hyman-Draisailt-Foegele

I think Foegele has played well with Draisailt. This line would be a load and could be a possession monster. Could take on any comp, as could the first line. Could switch Kane and Hyman. I like Hyman better on LW.

Holloway-RNH-Lavoie

Give them the soft parade and see if they can outscore. Gives the young guys a mentor. Holloway can help with face-off duty. Nuge can handle 3C and soft parade as a C and can be double shifted as a LW to give opponents fits.

Janmark – McLeod – Ryan

Make this a tough minutes line, meaning McLeod would still be playing an important role, and like like, double shift him at times on other lines to get him a few more minutes. An all speed line of Holoway McLeod and McDavid would be a lot of fun for a couple shifts.

Gollum

I’m not a fan of bumping Nuge down to 3rd line minutes. At least not as long as he plays like he did the last regular season.

OriginalPouzar

Stauffer was on the Two Mutts pod again (interview was Sunday night but it dropped this morning).

Almost an hour, about half of it (or more) directly about the Oilers and Stauffer, once again, didn’t mention the name Raphael Lavoie even once.

Stauffer thinks, like most of us, that 11 forward spots are locked but he seems intent that the Oilers want a player that can play center for the last spot – spoke about Sutter, Gagner, Pederson, a waiver claim or James Hamblin.

No mention of Lavoie at all.

Again, this could be just Stauffer, as opposed to the thoughts of management or the coaching staff but that’s his thoughts.

————————-

He also mentions that he things Broberg and Holloway will get the push to establish themselves. He thinks that Holloway/McLeod/Foegele should be the third line and get 13-15 minutes per night (and decrease each of McDavid and Drai by about a minute at 5 on 5).

He projected Nurse/Bouchard and Ekholm/Broberg to start with Vinny as 7D.

Reja

I see then bringing in one more PTO ( Centre) are Lavoie gets traded for that Centre with Montreal or Ottawa.

dulock

I think Lavoie is going to either have to outplay another winger and force the issue or (most likely) be the injury replacement for someone. The Oilers seem to really, really want a RHC and have brought in or re-signed Ryan, Pederson, Grubbe, Sutter, Gagner, Copponi as they see this as a need now and in the future. Lavoie better start working on his faceoffs…

Reja

Lavoie won’t make through waivers it’s obvious they want a Centre as cover for Ryan. Pederson could very well be that guy or they bring in say Nolan Patrick. When the talking head for the team is purposely avoiding the name Lavoie ding, ding, ding Lavoie is gonzo.

Harpers Hair

It’s highly likely Patrick’s career is over.

He suffers severe migraines following several concussions.

Reja

I don’t know his current condition but he’s been mentioned and as we both know money doesn’t grow on trees.

godot10

The OIlers do not have a right shot forward who can actually shoot the puck. Lavoie fills a big hole.

godot10

Stauffer has not gone #TheFullBroberg yet.

Melman

No offence to JG, but Derek Ryan was effective in his role in the NHL last year (and the year before that, and the….). Sutter’s last full season came in 2016/17 and arguably his last effective season was 2017/2018. He has not played a game in the NHL since 2021.

He helps with the veteran quota for pre-season and gets to showcase himself to league while staying close to home. Classy move by Kenny and a win-win for player and club. IF he were to make the team out of camp, the Oilers are in serious trouble and he managed to find the fountain of youth and speed skating while recovering from long-term Covid symptoms.

cowboy bill

Yes, Derek Ryan has been effective. But he is going to be 37 at the end of December.
We shall see if his effectiveness continues. On the other hand, we have Brandon Sutter, who we haven’t really heard much about his effectiveness from the captain’s skate. He’s just getting started again after a 2-year layoff. A lot of people don’t think his chances are that good. He’s got some competition for the 4th line center job, a soon to be 37 years old,
a 25-year-old, who has been jumping from team to team unable to find a fit in the NHL, a rookie, who they probably want to slot higher in the lineup. Brandon Sutter is obviously the most qualified and most suitable for the only opening available, as the 12th forward, that happens to be the 4th line center.
The fourth line should be Janmark-Sutter-Ryan/Lavoie, if logic persists. Jason Gregor may have hit the nail on head.

cowboy bill

Oh, good heavens I forgot Sam Gagner. Lavoie has some serious competition for that.
fourth line RW job. Two smallish old guys.

innercitysmytty

Exactly my thoughts on this situation as well. Sutter was ineffective before being off for 2 years and is 34 years old. I don’t see any scenario where he helps this team. If one of the 4th line players goes down to start the season, I would be way more on board with that player being Janmark. In that instance I would rather a Ryan_Gagner_Lavoie line, assuming Gagner is back to 100% health. Hat tip to NHL_Sid for throwing out this as a potential option (although very unlikely).

Optimism is like heroin

That is a shame. I was hoping he came here to play 3rd line rw.

Diablo

He’s a cheap fill in for Landeskog during the regular season. He disappears during the playoffs. 32 years old, and small. I’d rather have Holloway and Lavoie on our 3rd and 4th lines.

defmn

Elliotte Friedman

Tatar AAV is $1.5M

Harpers Hair

He’s much more likely to slot into the newly created 3rd line with Ross Colton and Miles Wood.

That could change if Jonathan Drouin isn’t able to establish himself in the top 6.

Colorado has also signed former draft pick Nikolai Kovalenko to an ELC and expect him to join the team when the KHL season ends.

Kovalenko was almost a PPG player in the KHL last season and is off to a strong start this season with 4 points in 3 games.

Harpers Hair

Worth noting, Kovalenko, who was born in Carolina, is being mentored by Igor Larionov who is head coach for Torpedo.

Unlike many KHL coaches, he gives young players with NHL aspirations plenty of opportunities to play and develop.

Side

I mean, it really isn’t worth noting that Kovalenko was born in Carolina.

Do you also have any sources on how many KHL coaches don’t give players opportunities to play and develop?

Really, the only thing worth noting about this comment is that Kovalenko plays in the KHL currently.

SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo!

Four brand new players in the Top Six, none with a history of performing in that role (at least not in the last ten years), one Problem Child who had to leave the Avs last playoff series midway through and MacKinnon clearly on the wrong side of Peak Offensive Production.

So many concussions to all those Young boys on defense.

Colorado might be a lottery team this year… joining Boston who also went “all in,” like so many on this board always want to do.

Harpers Hair

LOL.

There are TWO new players who MAY play in the top 6. Johansen and Drouin.

Johansen scored 26 goals and 63 points in his last full season playing on a team that didn’t score much. He may have Mikko Rantanen on his wing.

Nichushkin is just fine.

MacKinnon just scored a career high 111 points in only 71 games….peak performance.

Colorado has two #1 quality D and Byram emerging as another one.

No accident that they are the betting favourites to win the cup.

Bank Shot

What a mess of a team. Thoughts and prayers to the city of Colorado.

SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo!

Five concussions between Bo and Cale in the last two years… After everything we have learned about concussions its beyond terrible that Sakic didn’t step in and tell Cale to think about his long-term health last season instead of rushing him back.. terrible leadership frankly.

One hit each and both of them probably retire before they can’t think anymore.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/report-avalanches-byram-told-father-cant-play-feel-like/

https://www.nbcsports.com/nhl/news/cale-makar-cleared-to-return-2nd-time-from-concussion-protocol

Valeri might be fine but what do his teammates think of him getting one of their coaching staff punched and then bailing on the team in the middle of a playoff series?

SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo!

Since 19/20 Leon Draisaitl has scored 432 points while MacKinnon has scored 357. Leon needs 15 more points than Nate the Great this year to catch him in career scoring despite having a years head start lol.

MacKinnon is older than Leon, he gets hurt more than Leon and he scores less than Leon. Sakic’s lackey went and signed him to be the highest paid in the league.

But you keep telling us how messed the Oilers are if they re-sign Leon…

Sakic has three retirement contracts on the books already, the horrid contract of Girard and is about to give his GM the thumbs up to two more retirement deals. Terrible leadership frankly WOW!

Harpers Hair

MacKinnon is actually a month older than Draisaitl who will not sign an extension that kicks in a few days before his 30th birthday.

Girard’s $5 million cap hit is very reasonable for a second pairing D..not sure what retirement contracts you’re referring to but they would seem to be a figment of your imagination.

John Chambers

Tuna Tatar’s playoff stats the last few seasons are laughable.
Had 1 goal (and point) in 12 playoff games with the Devils last season.
During Montreal’s pandemic run to the finals, they only dressed Tatar in 5 games where he posted a measly assist.
The Habs probably learned their lesson in 19’20 when Tatar was close to a ppg player in the reg season but was a 0.2 ppg player in the pandemic bubble.

I suppose it’s moot though as he’ll be a placeholder for Landeskog who will undoubtedly take his place G1 of the playoffs after being on LTIR through game 82 of the regular season.

OriginalPouzar

Monster takeaway numbers are great but I’m still wondering if the verbal on Brown’s defensive play is over-stated.

I know team matters a lot but his goal against rates have not been great over the years and quite poor in Ottawa. He also got absolutely shredded in goal share against elites during his time in Ottawa – his last year was around 3-17 goals.

As I said, team matters, but I think the hype may be a bit exaggerated.

OriginalPouzar

I see alot of worry about Brown and injury and wonder if this is related to his history or last season’s injury.

If its last season’s injury, I honestly don’t think its a concern. He tore a ligament and had it surgically repaired. Even taken away the accounts that it was a very clean tear without any secondary damage to the meniscus (or anything else), I don’t believe this is the type of injury that comes with an elevated risk of re-injury. Its not like certain shoulder or back issues that re-occur, right?

As far as injury history, he played full seasons (missing one game I think) prior to 64 in his last season in Ottawa which i think was a broken jaw from a puck to the face…..

I’m not sure he has a long injury history which should be of concern.

Last year’s knee injury and missing the season comes with a legit risk that it’ll take him some time to get up to speed and get his prime game back, but I don’t think it comes with added injury risk.

jp

Yeah, he played his first 5 NHL seasons without missing a single game before the puck in face (thanks, I did not know that’s why he missed time in 21-22).

Reja

if he stays relatively heathy what’s your projection on Goals? What I’m most excited about is our greater threat to score while SH which are daggers to the opposition.

John Chambers

The thing about giving Derek Ryan a 2-year pact is
a) the AAV of the deal is lower
b) he’s unlikely to be claimed on waivers
c) he can transition, as needed, to a mentoring role in Bakersfield

I’m guessing the latter point was an implicit part of the agreement. Derek Ryan has “future coach” written all over him.

Reja

Holland takes care of his Vets probably a big reason why he’s so well liked by many players.

Melman

I seems for Holland it’s not just his Vets, but NHL Vets in general.

Reja

I would say there’s a few young guys over the years that got washed out of the league because of lack of opportunity that would have a different opinion on him.