The Edmonton Oilers got a little unlucky last night. The team’s waiver-eligible power winger delivered a goal-scorer’s goal against a quality NHL goaltender with the lights on and the cameras rolling. We know based on media opinion the coaching staff and or management are leaning toward keeping center Brandon Sutter. Many fans are fretting over the decision to come. I would encourage you to look forward to this decision. It’s an early defining moment for Jeff Jackson.
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: Oilers reaching critical pressure point with prospect Raphael Lavoie
- DNB: A third Edmonton Oilers tenure, no matter the odds, is Sam Gagner’s goal
- Lowetide: Should the Edmonton Oilers alter how Connor McDavid is deployed?
- DNB: Oilers, Flames unveil Heritage Classic jerseys: How do we rate them?
- DNB: Vincent Desharnais Q&A
- Lowetide: Can the Oilers find a useful player on the waiver wire?
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers’ top recall options for 2023-24
- DNB: 6 observations from the first two days
- Lowetide: Can the Edmonton Oilers ice a balanced roster in 2023-24?
- DNB: Inside the Edmonton Oilers hiring Michael Parkatti to run an analytics department
- Lowetide: Were the Edmonton Oilers’ summer moves supported by analytics?
- DNB: 10 pressing Edmonton Oilers questions entering training camp
- Lowetide: The Oilers’ best prospect is Xavier Bourgault. Will he play in the NHL this year?
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers prospects preseason stock watch
- Lowetide: Why Oilers’ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins remains key to Stanley Cup pursuit
- Lowetide: 5 Oilers assets that could get moved early or late in 2023-24
- Lowetide: What to expect from Oilers rookies, led by Raphael Lavoie
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers 2023-24 complete reasonable expectations
- Lowetide: What should Oilers fans expect from new scouting director Richard Pracey?
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers top 20 prospects, summer 2023
THE NUMBERS
The Oilers enjoyed a dynamite first period and the game was close five-on-five (3-2 goals Van, 7-7 high dangers) but the march to the penalty box in the second and third periods told the tale.
- Evander Kane had five shots, four HDSC and looks like the intimidating power winger the Oilers have come to rely on. His production and rugged play, plus his shot volume, are key elements for this team.
- Ryan Nugent-Hopkins had three shots, two HDSC, had a strong night in the circle and took a penalty. Went 0-4 shots and 0-6 Corsi versus the Elias Pettersson line.
- Connor Brown had one shot, two HDSC and drew a penalty. He’s fast, makes plays, can transport the puck and has utility. Lots to like about this player.
- Adam Erne scored a goal by going to the net and this was his most effective game. I can’t see him making the team, but an NHL contract and a top-six role in Bakersfield would be a good outcome.
- Brandon Sutter played well but he’s not quite there as a lock for the No. 4 center spot. For me, it’s asking too much to think he can fill the role right away. I’d run him in two of the next three games, and I know the media (perhaps partly due to conversations with Oilers coaching staff and management) have him on the opening night roster. I believe that’s a mistake. Trading for a fourth-line center should be a discussion right now.
- Mattias Janmark had some good moments but was also on for 2GA at five-on-five and another on the PK. That’s way too high event for his role.
- Raphael Lavoie scored a terrific goal against a fine NHL goaltender. For me, I wouldn’t risk waivers on him. Jeff Jackson, Ken Holland and Jay Woodcroft may not agree. I think a trade is possible. I don’t think getting him through waivers is a slam dunk and I don’t think Brandon Sutter’s future warrants such a reckless transaction. I’ve said my piece, and now we wait for the Jackson Oilers to make the call.
- Brad Malone has enjoyed a fine training camp, and his physical play stands out. He has three HDSC in three games and an expected goal share five-on-five of 59 percent. I think he’s playing as well as (albeit in a different role) Sutter.
- Seth Griffith had his best game by some margin. He was passing well and made some good defensive plays. I was happy to see it.
- James Hamblin also had his best game. His quickness gets him to lots of places and he’s dogged in puck pursuit. If he could score more often Hamblin would be in the NHL all the time.
- Lane Pederson had two shots and one HDSC in 16:33. He has spent time in a feature role and I believe he’ll be a big help to the organization as Bakersfield’s No. 1 center.
- Xavier Bourgault showed well in a two-way role while also getting knocked off the puck by bigger men often enough for me to notice. I’d like to see him dominate the AHL this year. A recall is more likely than it was before camp started. That’s a win for this young man.
- Darnell Nurse played a lot and was 0-2 against the JT Miller line. Evan Bouchard was his partner and I thought there were moments where recognition defensively was delayed. I’m not sure this pairing will spend the heart of the season together.
- Philip Broberg played well, picked up an assist. He did have trouble with Quinn Hughes but was not alone. Vincent Desharnais was riddled even more by Hughes presence and landed 14 pims in a late session skirmish.
- Ben Gleason had a good night, played a repeatable game and I would suggest should rank just behind Markus Niemelainen in the recall pile among LH Condors. Niemelainen has delivered a strong camp, not certain it’ll get him plucked off waivers but you never know. A reminder Broberg can be sent down without a waiver worry. I don’t believe his play, or that of Niemelainen, warrants it. It is an option.
Stuart Skinner did not have a strong game. Those who tend to panic about these things will panic. I remain convinced of his quality.
THE DISTANT BELLS
Now there are three names remaining. I think each of these men have shown more than expected and recalls for each should be considered possible to probable.
NON-CERTAIN OILERS
These men are still pushing, but in reality names like Calvin Pickard, Seth Griffith, Brad Malone and James Hamblin are not going to make the grade. It’s my belief the only two names on this list who could be on the opening night roster are Brandon Sutter and Raphael Lavoie.
This is Jeff Jackson’s team. Brandon Sutter will need to perform well in games this week to make the grade. I don’t think there’s any reason to rely on him. I also don’t believe risking waivers on Raphael Lavoie is wise. Perhaps a trade for a fourth-line center involving Lavoie is the best outcome.
New for The Athletic: Edmonton Oilers prospect update — the Russians lead the pack early
https://theathletic.com/4915678/2023/10/01/edmonton-oilers-prospect-update/
I would like to see them run, or at least try for one of the remaining exhibition games, something like this.
Kane/McD/Brown
Foegele/Drai/Lavoie
Holloway/Nuge/Hyman
Janmark/McLeod/Ryan
Foegele and Drai have good results together and shows them what Lavoie can do with one of the top Cs. Nuge and Hyman had great chemistry last year when they ran the 3C lineup last year. Gives Holloway more offensive players to show what he can do as well.
Gleason, we were told, plays the Right side despite shooting left
I thought he’d get at least one more game, but Sutter looked a bit slow in last night’s game. Not sure if it was playing vs a mostly NHL line up or exhaustion, maybe both. I thought he was out played a bit by Brad Malone throughout the preseason so far, who isn’t normally talked about as more than a depth call up.
He was a long shot to make it but I like the Oilers giving guys shots like that, I think it gives them a good reputation with the agents and players and once in awhile it pans out.
This exactly.
I don’t doubt the Oilers would have given him more games. I don’t think this was a release/cut and then he retired. I think the player realized he couldn’t compete at this level health wise and went to the org.
Ding Ding you nailed it.
Apple looking at a multi billion dollar deal to broadcast F-1 after securing MLS.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/apple-tv-deal-could-shake-up-f1-broadcasting-landscape
The Oiler Hockey Gods of the past have prevailed a Sutter was never meant to donn a Oiler jersey.
The pearl-clutching on this issue was pretty much off the charts. I guess PTSD from the DoD is still a thing.
For some it is a life long commitment.
This was unexpected news the way Gregor, Stuffer and Spector have been going full tilt on the pumping of Sutter’s tires was gag me with a spoon territory. Who’s the next horse they jump on Pederson, Erne a Centre off the waiver wire are a trade involving Lavoie.
“was gag me with a spoon territory”
I am shocked Reja, I never took you for a Valley Gurl 😀😀
More of a Muffin Man.
It was warranted as the current management and coaching staff were very much hoping this player would be on the team – by their words and their actions.
No it wasn’t … you guys listen to the media verbal too much.
I wasn’t listening to the media to base this opinion – I was listening to the GM and the head coach and I was watching the deployment of Sutter vs. Pederson vs. Lavoie since camp opened.
I have talked about the fact that Stauffer barely mentioned Lavoie’s name all summer long but the real consternation came the last few weeks as per the above.
So now that we’re past the Sutter Panic what comes next?
😂😂😂
Pederson Paranoia.
Campbell Conniptions
Stanley
Nurse Narcolepsy
Lavoie Lethargy
Broberg Brain
Bourgault Woe
Desharnais Dismay
Campbell Chaos.
During last night’s game, the Canucks’ play by play guy felt that something was different about the arena but he couldn’t quite put his finger on it. But then he finally noted that what was different was that the trim of the boards was painted blue instead of red. I was waiting for the colour commentary guy to say something interesting in response, such as “Oh, good catch!” or perhaps “Maybe that’s to reflect the blue as one of the Canucks’ team colours.” Instead, it was complete silence. Nothing said in response. The play by play guy then continued to call the action. I just found it ironic that the colour commentary guy, of all people, didn’t want to comment on colour!
I’d be quite happy if we saw a line of Janmark/Ryan/Lavoie tomorrow night – a line that could potentially play together during the regular season.
How does that fit with your wanting to see him with skilled offensive players?
I’ve actually asked for that but for actual NHL bottom six players as linemates – Pederson and Sutter have both received established NHL players to play with – Lavoie has not.
Yeah, playing a right shot sniper with a right shot centre who will have to set him up with backhand passes makes so much sense, particularly when one has three 100-point mostly pass first left shot centres to choose from.
Or start with:
McLovin-McLeod-McRyan
Janmark-Holloway-Lavoie
Play the long game and let the 2 kids get their feet under them with a vet while rolling 4 lines for the first 20 games so you don’t burn out the big dogs.
I hope McLeod gets back into the preseason lineup soon, so we can finally see what Woody has cooking for the lineup.
Sounds like he’s close – closer than Ekholm.
I think McLeod likely plays Wed and am hoping that Ekholm can (or will) play on Friday.
So is editing comments just dead now? I tried to edit comment add the NHL.com link for the Sutter retirement and it said I was posting too fast.
Apologies if it’s been addressed before.
Yeah this has been ongoing for several weeks now, for myself at least.
Link is here:
https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/topic/transactions/release-oilers-release-brandon-sutter-from-professional-tryout
This is the workaround I’ve been using:
1) Copy the text of your original post.
2) Delete the post by clicking on the person icon just under the number of comments, then select the trash icon for the appropriate post.
3) Paste your text in the text box, making the necessary edits.
4) Re-post comment and Bob’s your uncle.
Thank you Tarkus, I never noticed that before! Dammit!!
😀😀
Testing to see if I can make it work.
I use DuckDuckGo too and it works for me.
It should be just above LT’s profile pic from his pinned post at the top of the comments. It’s a person icon with a little gear symbol adjacent to it.
I see it helps if you click on the right icon. Thanks. I was trying to find what you were talking about over in the bottom right corner where the other number of comments are shown.
I’ve used it twice tonight already, it will vastly improve my posts.
Make that 3 times 😀😀
As per Oilers official twitter, Brandon Sutter has been released from his PTO and announced his retirement.
As someone pulling for Lavoie to make the team this is a positive development , but I was pulling for Sutter to have success in his attempted return to hockey and act as a mentor in Bako, maybe getting the Demers courtesy game later in the year. Sail on Red Deer Rebel, best of luck on your next chapter.
Malone’s got that Bakersfields job. The OIlers might be over the limit already for playable veterans for Bakersfield.
True. Especially with Gagner heading down there as well.
Sutter released from PTO. Announces retirement
What ever will we talk about now? 😇
I have faith in the Jackson era and shift to analytics with Parkatti but this still has an air of relief and the Oil being saved from themselves a la the Keith retirement haha.
Tyler Benson should have played with skilled line mates?
That should be good for another half decade. 🙂
Tyler Benson took far too long to understand that he had to learn to shoot the puck and to play without the puck if he wanted to be an NHL player. Slow almost pass only skill players don’t exist in the NHL.
Honestly…I wasn’t interested in re-litigating a scenario that prompted a particular poster to opine hundreds of times that all that was needed was opportunity.
Every single Benson post by any poster here has been more of a community contribution then whatever you continue to spew out.
“opine hundreds of times” a tale of Harpers Hair never ending quest to sniff his own farts.
We should talk about the legacy Brogan Rafferty has left on the game of hockey.
The player or serial killer?
Well, there you go.
I’m always for keeping the waiver eligible prospect on the roster, but I’m wondering, who’s more likely to be claimed – Lavoie or Pederson? Pederson was claimed last year. It’s interesting that they’ve given him so much PP time – didn’t see that coming. Maybe seeing him as more of a skill line replacement if injuries hit than a 4C?
Or helping him get ready for the AHL where he’s likely to be 1C in the Bake?
Pederson’s skills are easily replaceable. Lavoie has one outstanding extremely scarce elite skili…the ability to beat an NHL starting goaltender from range with his shot.
It is not a very hard choice.
Is it just me or doesn’t R Lavoie remind anyone else of a former French Canadian power forward that used to be a promising Oiler prospect? I remember the coach at the time Pat Quinn placed him on the wing of our first line opening night and pretty sure he was way overrated by the fanbase and didn’t last very long in that position. J.F. Jacques goal scorer and power forward extraordinaire in junior and the minors but not good enough for the show.
It’s just you. Mexico does strange things to people 😉
Nope, not just you. I was musing about Lavoie being the next JFJ yesterday.
*Edited*
Lavoie will never get top 6 minutes this season, like Jacques did. Jacques was a much better skater than Lavoie is, so same league, similar size, but completely different styles.
As well, Jacques scored 68 goals in 195 games, in his last 3 QMJHL seasons. This is a 0.35 goals per game rate or 24 goals per 68 games.
.
Lavoie scored 100 goals in 185 games, in his last 3 QMJHL seasons. This is a 0.54 goals per game rate or 37 goals per 68 games.
.
If you look at their playoff games there is an even greater disparity. Lavoie scored 23 in 32 games and JFJ scored 8 in 22 games (in their last 3 junior seasons). So JFJ scored a total of 76 goals in 217 games, while Lavoie potted 123 in the same number of games.
Some might consider a 47 goal difference to be substantial.
Or maybe I’m just jealous lol
It’s all the cheap tequila. I can confirm….
Remember that time Sather had French Canadian power forward Mike Krushelnyski in the top 6 and he scored 43 Goals.
Loved him. Started playing hockey at 14 IIRC.
Krushelnyski had already been a top 6 forward with the Bruins when Sather traded for him.
I believe a fairly serious back injury contributed to that.
Podkolzin continues to meander as he’s assigned to the AHL.
Jack Rathborne, yes, THAT highly touted Jack Rathborne, on waivers!
For laughs, the Oilers should put a claim on Podkolzin.
One more year before he’s waivers eligible.
NHL GP
Podkholzin 118
Broberg 69
Broberg picked two spots earlier in the 2019 draft.
Yes, mostly due to their teams very different respective positions in the NHL hierarchy.
And with trajectories pointed in opposite directions, I’d add.
Perhaps but you never know until they do it.
TBH from what I’ve seen in the pre-season both players have been underwhelming given their draft pedigree.
NHL Playoff games
Podkolzin 0
Broberg 10
Podkolzin headed to AHL
Broberg not headed to AHL
Podkolzin Right Wing
Broberg Left Defense (maybe right)
Podkolzin Russian
Broberg Swedish
There are no end of comparisons. Typical of you to throw out some “pithy” thought like it has any value to the discussion.
Tiresome, tiresome, tiresome.
So I guess we shouldn’t worry about the “6’2 Podkholzin clone, Danila Klimovich!” ?
Ah too bad.
Ah too bad – I hope whoever is the GM next season has a sense of humour.
Would you believe Klimovitch was drafted in the second round many spots after Xavier Bourgault was drafted in the first round?
And yet neither has made an NHL impression.
Shocking isn’t it?
Nope, not shocking at all as young players all have different developmental journies that sometimes come to a dead end which may come just short of making the NHL.
What is shocking though, is projecting a player (Podz) to be a star NHL player before he even plays any meaningful NHL games, and then to project a younger player who has played ZERO NHL games to be a “clone” of said “star” player.
The more embarrassing “miss” was Rathborne – The Harvard D factory graduate can’t even make it until the end of camp until being waved
HH wasn’t the only one pumping Rathbone’s tires. Friedman was gushing about the Rathbone jersey he bought just before last season started. While both of them may have the gift of gab, neither of them know Jack about hockey.
Very well said!
I was writing a detailed post the other day that I didn’t finish when my iPad died. How the Oilers manage RL seems to be the story of the preseason. As you point out, it’s even more than that.
I agree with many that it felt like the Oilers’ plan was to sandbag him with non NHL’ers and hope he doesn’t do much so could then hopefully clears waivers.
Prior to the last game, RL’s minutes didn’t look appreciably different than Holloway’s in terms of linemates. They were each others most common linenate prior to last game.
I wonder whether this was to compare them against each other or if there’s some thought of them playing together this season.
Last preseason, Holloway had a major push in terms of linemates. Other than 16:48 with Mayday Malone, he mostly played with quality NHLers.
So far, none of Xb, RL, or DH have got to play with quality linemates.
Can the Oilers not simply: Sign Sutter Gags, send them down; Play Lavoie, school him up; Bank unspent cap through the year; Use unspent cap to call up cheap useful vets to ice a full roster?
This barring any mid-season or deadline moves that rewrite the whole cap landscape.
Don’t even need to sign Sutter to have him play in Bako – he can play on a tryout for 25 games.
PuckPedia
@PuckPedia
·
14m
Waivers today:
LAK
Hodgson
Fagemo
Akil Thomas
Moverare
Maltsev
Santini
Hicketts
Connauton
Tynan
BOS
Dipietro
VAN
Sawchenko
Rathbone
Dries
Irwin
Woo
TBL
Davies
Cecconi
WSH
Priski
Sutter
SJS
Todd
Sabourin
PuckPedia
@PuckPedia
·
19m
Waivers 2/3
CHI
Gust
Hardman
Seney
MIN
Swaney
McIntyre
Lucchini
Fogarty
WPG
Reicehl
Malott
Toninato
Sautner
Harkins
NYR
Hollowell
Domingue
STL
Peca
McGing
Kalynuk
Bitten
MTL
Maillet
Lias Andersson
PuckPedia
@PuckPedia
·
21m
Waivers 3/3
TBL
Philippe Myers
Day
Chaffee
ANA
Carrick
Wow, you gave the kiss of death to Rathbone AND Woo in one post.
“Harpers Hair
Reply to leadfarmer
September 17, 2021 7:18 pm
You may want to consider Jack Rathbone, just the latest product of the Harvard D factory, Danila Klimovitch, a 6’2” Podkholzin clone and a couple of later round picks, Jett Woo and Jonah Gadjovich who are coming along nicely before jumping to silly conclusions.”
love the “before jumping to silly conclusions” at the end ;)…
It would be absolute insanity to keep Sutter and to lose Lavoie through waivers. When I saw Lavoie shoot the puck last night, I couldn’t help but think what he could do with some NHL seasoning alongside one of the Oilers big three centers. With a shot like that, Lavoie could score a lot of goals. With his wing-span and size, it is a no-brainer to keep him. The Sutter-types are always replaceable.
Lavoie looks to me like a piece that they are going to need. When injuries strike, they need to be ready with younger players who can move up the lineup. With an NHL season under his belt, Lavoie will be that much better by playoff time.
Those who talk about trading guys like Lavoie and Broberg do not know a thing about building a hockey team. I hope I am not speaking about Oiler management when I say that.
I like Bourgault, but if someone needs to be traded for a fourth-line center, I would trade him rather than Lavoie. The upside for Lavoie is much better than it is for Bourgault.
I would trad Janmark & sweeten as necessary. Bourgault is going to be good as soon as he gets a little bit stronger.
Bet on skill. As you say fourth liners are always available.
You don’t need to trade Janmark … just send him down to the AHL like last season if you have to
You need to trade somebody in order to trade for a 4th line centre which is the proposal I was replying to.
I’m not sure why we’re thinking about Sutter any differently than samwise at this point. Sign him, send him down. No one will claim him. See if he knocks off the rust and is the first call up over Pederson. Retain Lavoie.
We’re likely going to run 7 d most nights so field to the coach use case. And don’t risk losing Lavoie out of the gate.
The answer seems obvious but we seem intent on kicking it up. McLeod on IR prolongs the Sutter tryout.
100%%
I think someone special gifted Sutter a promise ring.
As already commented: 100%.
Easy call.
Doesn’t even need to be signed to play in Bako – he can play 25 games down there on a try out.
Bob mentioned Brown’s and Kane’s injury history quite a bit last night. I think he’s right to do so.
Players that can potentially play up the line-up should be retained.
Brown looked surprisingly small and lightweight. Of course lots of Oilers looked relatively easy to push off the puck. I am in a constant state of “irk” watching Oilers get pushed around and would really wish there was a commitment to finishing checks especially on free wheeling players when you get the chance instead of the “bump off” or flyby.
Regarding Brown, we all know he missed most of last season with the knee injury, and he also missed 18 games in 21-22 after taking a puck in the face.
Before that he had played 5 straight seasons without missing a single game. Hopefully he can put those 2 major injuries behind him and start a new iron man streak (the previous one reached 384 games, or 404 games if you include the playoffs).
Brown doesn’t have a history of being injured.
Yes, he had the major injury last year but its a surgically repaired ACL is not like an achillies or back or shoulder or head where re-injury is higher risk.
Other than the one major injury, he took a puck to the jaw in warm-ups and missed apx 15 games. He’s been healthy other than that.
McDavid, Holloway, Broberg, Nuge (and others) – all have more substantial injury histories.
I thought Pederson touches the puck a lot, but out of the bottom centres, I like Malone.
If the Oilers are flush with wingers, Holloway could burn up the ice in that 4th center role. His speed is getting up there with McLeod. With two penalty killing wingers like Janmark and Ryan he would do fine.
Fun thought. But Holloway would not get enough ice time there to maximize his potential.
Pederson has a good motor … I can see why other teams have wanted a look at him in the NHL. But his hands are too slow.
Why is this team seemingly under Jackson’s control? Isn’t the GM (Holland) still ultimately responsible for the decisions at this time?
Jackson got a role I’ve never heard of in an NHL franchise (CEO) and now all the verbal acts like he’s the GM. I don’t listen to everything about the oilers so maybe those connected know more. Just seems weird to me.
If we guess based on past Holland decisions, he will kick waiver issues way down the road and wait for injuries. McLeod hasn’t even played yet (and starting to be a bit of an ongoing injury case). If McLeod is hurt; this discussion is moot in my opinion. Lavoie and Sutter make the team. Waive Sutter to Bakersfield if everyone gets healthy and have him there for depth.
a CEO ranks ahead of a GM in corporate structure
Similar position to POHO.
McLeod is likely to play this coming weekend (per coach).
Sorry, this coming WEEK not weekend.
Can’t put too much stock in exhibition games but Gleason has definitely raised his stock and put his name right in there beside Niemo for 8D, in my opinion. Through his few exhibition he hasn’t made many oubvious mistakes and i’ve seen him make quite a few deft plays to get the puck out of danger.
Will be interesting to see how those two are deployed in Bako.
In my opinion, talking about sending down Broberg because he’s waivers exempt is about as likely as Holloway being sent down because he’s waivers exempt.
The org is looking to push Broberg up the lineup – he’s not being assigned to Bako in the name of Markus Niemelainen, in my opinion.
Gleason shows some promise of being an NHL defenceman. He will have to continue working on gap control and recognizing the pace of play at the NHL level. His biggest problem in looking for a position is being a left-shot D-man, lots of lefties ahead of him in the organization.
The real solution at forward is to run something like:
Kane McD Hyman
Hollway Drai Brown
Janmark RNH Foegele
Lavoie McLeod Ryan
Kane McDavid Hyman
Holloway Draisaitl Brown
Foegele McLeod Ryan
Janmark Nugent-Hopkins Lavoie
There are FOUR lines, and there is no fourth line.
Agreed. Mix and match as you like. People want a good 4th line, put good players on the 4th line (or all lines).
Ryan Nugent Hopkins had 104 points last season including, at 5 on 5, being tied for 52nd among forwards in points – clearly 1st line scoring at 5 on 5 and tied with Scheifele, Gaudreau and Eichel.
The above set-up is silly and you know it even if you keep posting it.
I don’t think getting him through waivers is a slam dunk and I don’t think Brandon Sutter’s future warrants such a reckless transaction. I’ve said my piece, and now we wait for the Jackson Oilers to make the call.
I don’t think getting him through waivers is a slam dunk but I don’t think him getting claimed is a slam dunk either. There is risk is exposing him, absolutely, but he very well could slide through.
I don’t see the need to risk this at all – none of Erne, Pederson or Sutter have done anything to warrant that move. In fact, one could argue that Lavoie has had the most impactful on-ice play in lesser opportunity that the two “true centers”.
I’m not sure that Jackson would be involved in this decision – Holland is still the GM and this is a GM transaction and I think Holland has autonomy over the current team. I understand Jackson and his player development niche but I’m not positive he would veto Holland’s decision on this (which would be made in conjunction with the coaching staff I would think).
Was at the game last, Sutter brings nothing to the table. Consider the pace is going to be much different from pre-season to regular season, there’s no way he’s able to keep up. My take, keep RL and see what we have and wait on Gagner and if he’s healthy enough, he would be our ideal 4C, until then run MD or LD as a stop gap or trade for one. I would be so disappointed if oilers decides to keep Sutter, consider they just hired Parkatti, you would think he would advise against this.
Gagner doesn’t have the speed to play Center, and after double hip surgery, the likelihood of an older player losing speed would be even greater.
Gagner is being groomed for a position in the organization. He’s tight with Jackson, and was actually the one who first put McDavid on Jackson’s radar.
Yes, I recall the David O’Connor story.
Agreed. And it is a good decision imo.
Dave Gagner, Sam’s Dad, is also Bouchard’s agent.
A new OBC in the making.
Yep – hence the bridge contract for Bouchard when he could have held out for more money and/or term.
he team’s waiver-eligible power winger delivered a goal-scorer’s goal against a quality NHL goaltender with the lights on and the cameras rolling. We know based on media opinion the coaching staff and or management are leaning toward keeping center Brandon Sutter. Many fans are fretting over the decision to come. I would encourage you to look forward to this decision. It’s an early defining moment for Jeff Jackson.
My personal fret over the decision is the potential that management is blinded by a fantasy of what Brandon Sutter could be and are not seeing the reality of what each of Sutter vs. Pederson vs. Lavoie could bring on the ice now just this season but in the medium term.
Truth to told, Lavoie was having a very invisible night until the 3rd period but Sutter what visible and generally not in a good way.
Woodcroft put Lavoie in a catch-22. Griffiths and Malone are doing the best they can against better players, so they cannot generate much. If Lavoie tries to do too much and makes a defensive mistake, then Woodcroft has his excuse. So Lavoie is trapped unless someone makes a play. And thankfully, Broberg made a play using his legs to create an opportunity for Lavoie to launch his kinzhat.
I agree that Lavoie was not set up for success last night.
Had he lined up with Steal-o on RW and Hamblin or Pedersen at C, I think he would have been able to do a lot more, as I think all these players have shown better than both Bugsy & Griffith, OT heroics aside.
Most of the talk here on Lavoie seems to have him competing for a spot as a 4th line winger – L or R. That is not usually a place you put a guy whose strongest suit is shooting the puck so playing him with guys whose strongest suit is killing time – none event hockey – seems a legitimate exercise if that is the plan.
I can’t say I like that plan, though.
Place players according to their strengths is a better way to go imo. Pick the 12 best forwards and roster them according to where they are best suited is the HC job description. The number of centres on this team makes that something that is not difficult to do.
My fear is that the mantra to improve goals against is pointing them towards picking the ‘safe’ guy. The guy whose perfect stat line after every game is dominated by zeros. I think that is a mistake. I am in the ‘four outscoring lines’ crowd.
Kane – McDavid – Brown
Holloway – Draisaitl – Hyman
Foegele – Nuge – Lavoie
Janmark – McLeod – Ryan
Ryan is 37 years old this season and undersized by NHL standards. Lets try and keep him healthy and rested for the season that matters and see if Lavoie can outscore his rookie mistakes.
Nurse –
Ekholm –
Kulak –
Campbell – Skinner
How to deploy the RD is the question that should be keeping Manson awake at night. There is a way for it to work if Broberg is what his draft said he is. If not there is a trade waiting for January to arrive.
From what I’ve seen, Lavoie could use some more confidence in the skills he learned in the AHL. This could explain why he seems hesitant when playing at a higher level. It’s possible that his timing in some areas doesn’t quite meet NHL standards yet.
Perhaps playing with non-NHL skill against NHL players is part of that issue?
I am very curious what the pairings look like game one.
To be clear, I hope RL makes the team. In fact, he should make the team.
That said, I highly doubt he gets claimed on waivers. He is not particularly famous. Has been good but not great in the AHL. Every team has their own RL.
Do you really think Jeff Jackson is going to step in Ken Hollands toes in regards to roster construction?
And with Ken Holland, if he commits to someone, things have to be going very, very badly before he will change direction.
Vegas will laugh at the OIlers if they keep Sutter over Lavoie. Sutter cannot match up against any of Vega’s centres.
Hintz
Johnston
Duchene
Faksa
In a pinch Cs.
Seguin
Benn
Steel
Stankhoven
Bourque
I like how you just listed the rest of their forwards
All of the players I listed have and can play centre.
Its almost as if the Stars realize the importance of the position and acquire as many as possible while realizing it is relatively easy to shift a player to the wing.
In fact, DeBoer likes to deploy two centres on each line.
Also of interest…once the Stars had drafted all those potential centres, they then put their focus on drafting defensemen.
In the 2022 draft, they used four consecutive picks on D, three of them right handed.
Two of them, Lian Bischel and Christian Kyrou are showing very well in training camp.
McDavid
Draisaitl
RNH
McLeod
I like our group of C’s better than anyone else’s.
and if guys like Bourque and Stankhoven can be added then we might as well add Holloway and even Lavoie who played center for a 6 games his last season in the Q – shit, lets throw on Janmark and Ryan
The decision comes down to upside
Sutter has limited upside. He would likely clear waivers and if he’s comfortable you can explore an option, like Gagner, starting in the AHL and waiting for injury
RL likely gets claimed and has the potential of double digit goals in the bottom six. At the very least it’s worth seeing what you have in him. Goal scoring and shot volume is hard to find and it would be foolish IMO to give up on that for someone who was poor analytically when he last played in the NHL and offers limited upside.
I think the decision would normally be based on upside as you suggest.
In this case the Oil want a shut down 4th line center who can kill power plays, and they want him so badly they will squint until he appears to be the solution. (Sutter)
I can see it happening but I predict they keep both players as long as possible and if no injuries, and a decision is forced. they do actually keep Lavoie for 12 games or so while Sutter warms up on the Condors. Logic prevails.
When Lavoie name is brought up Woody, Stuffer, Gregor, Spector speak of him like a in-law they dislike but are trying to be nice for show. They’re all on the same page with the digs they give him instead of encouragement.This is his 1st healthy training camp applying for a N.H.L job. They keep saying he hasn’t proven anything. He’s deserved a honest chance with his excellent 2nd half of the A.H.L season when he was healthy. This should be a nice storyline instead of a burnt out Sutter love fest. Someone is feeding these folks a narrative.
FWIW Sutter scored at 15 and 17 goal paces from the bottom 6 his last 2 seasons (games missed due to injury and COVID shortened seasons).
Over his career Sutter has averaged 16.2 goals/82 games and in the playoffs he scored at a pace of 14.8 goals/82 games.
However, as we know he hasn’t played in 2 seasons and will be 35 in February. In his last 4 seasons, he averaged 49.4 games/82. And using averages he would be good for 8 goals, or would he?
Well if you don’t penalize him for Covid-shortened seasons he’s averaged 57 games and 11 goals over his last 2.
LT has Lavoie projected for 7 goals in 35 games so it doesn’t look like an obvious loss of production.
Sutter also plays the position where there’s a hole on the roster, and of course has made his career doing things the Oilers want to add.
The Oilers aren’t going to feature him. Those numbers are rock solid considering the role he might play.
For sure, 35 7-5-12 translates to 16-12-28 per 82 games, which would be very solid for a bottom 6 winger with little or no PP time.
Sutter’s last season was 43 9-3-12 (56 game season) though. The previous one 44 8-9-17. Those total to 16-11-27 per 82 games, from a bottom 6 role with no PP time.
Sutter has produced ‘double digit goals from the bottom 6’ (what I initially replied to) through his career. We don’t know whether he still can, but we also don’t know whether Lavoie can keep the fire lit and translate his last 45 AHL games to the NHL consistently.
I don’t know the answer (and have been too busy to watch the pre-season games), but my reading of the players histories and numbers suggests that folks are writing Sutter off as ‘done’ too easily, and that Lavoie’s potential is also being somewhat overrated.
Auditions for the big club really just start tomorrow night in Seattle.
Up until now has been about narrowing the focus.
For sure. Most any decisions will mostly be based on the remaining games.
Agreed. Also if Lavoie was dealt for a 4th line C we will know the org hasn’t changed much, at least yet. He’s not Ovi but there is so much there and so little at RW long term it will be hugely regretted later and there will be much consternation around here
Dallas would have him popping 15 no doubt and playing well enough
What’s the over-under odds that Brian Sutter is on LTIR before game ten?
Young man, Brian Sutter is 66. Every day is LTIR at that age.
I think you underestimate Viking farmers 😀