Training Camp Hopeful No. 1: Tyler Benson

There are two key seasons for young prospects: Draft year (usually 17) and first year pro (mostly 20). Among forwards drafted by the Oilers who played in the AHL at 20 this decade, Tyler Benson is the class of the group.

1 Tyler Benson 68, 15-51-66 .971 [2018-19]

2 Tobias Rieder 64, 28-20-48 .750 [2013-14]. NHL regular at 21.

3 Jesse Puljujarvi 39, 12-16-28 .718 (age 18) [2016-17]

4 Kailer Yamamoto 27, 10-8-18 .667 [2018-19]

5 Teemu Hartikainen 66, 17-25-42 .636 [2010-11]

6 Bogdan Yakimov 57, 12-16-28 .491 [2014-15]

7 Marco Roy 42, 8-12-20 .476 [2015-16]

8 Phil Cornet 60, 7-16-23 .383 [2010-11]

9 Tyler Pitlick 62, 7-16-23 .371 [2011-12]

10 Greg Chase 19, 1-6-7 .368 [2015-16]

11 Anton Lander 14, 1-4-5 .357 [2011-12]

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: The Oilers are finally recovering from the wayward 2014 Draft
  • New Lowetide: Projecting Darnell Nurse’s next contract and possible trades
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A missing mom, aching feet and looking for Kevin Lowe: A week in the life of Oilers prospect Raphael Lavoie
  • New Lowetide: What to do when Connor McDavid rests: The Oilers’ ideal No. 2 line for 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Adding a scorer will be Ken Holland’s first big move as Oilers GM
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the Oilers’ depth chart looks like now and where they go from here
  • Jonathan Willis: How often do goalies like the Oilers’ Mike Smith rebound?
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster moves clear the way for Oilers top prospects Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto.
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers GM Ken Holland promises long-term rewards for an approach light on short-term improvements
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Trade market now most likely place for Oilers to find scoring winger
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘He comes as advertised’: Philip Broberg’s skating makes him development camp standout for Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers plan to skew younger on defence could open the door for Evan Bouchard, Dmitri Samorukov
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.
  • Lowetide: Are these Jesse Puljujarvi’s final days with the Edmonton Oilers?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ranking the Oilers’ trade assets from the high-priced diamonds to those needing fresh starts
  • Lowetide: Oilers GM Ken Holland is shopping for 20-goal scorers on a budget. What will he find?

TYLER BENSON, REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS 2019-20

What role will be play in Edmonton? Based on the current depth chart, I have Benson as the No. 2 LW in terms of what he can bring offensively (he’ll trail Leon Draisaitl but should deliver more than Jujhar Khaira and Markus Granlund). Joakim Nygard will also have some input and I think Ken Holland would prefer Benson as a recall option when and if something derails. He’s on my roster as of today.

What role will he play in Bakersfield? No. 1 LW, power-play and penalty-killing time. You can see the appeal of sending him down and having Benson tear the cover off the ball for 30 games. Edmonton might need a boost around that time.

What has changed since his draft day? The two biggest items are health and high performance. Benson was among the AHL’s best rookies and Jay Woodcroft raved about him all season. It was a strong year he can build on.

Anything else? If you’re looking for a perfect fit married to a gigantic opportunity, it exists with Benson in Edmonton. Ken Holland may (and I think will) change the equation, but if no transactions occur over the rest of the summer, Benson is in a sweet spot.

What about his lack of speed? He will go as far as his foot speed takes him. I like the HockeyProspect.com assessment from Benson’s draft day: “Benson is not the speediest of skaters but does have above average acceleration and ability to create space with a powerful lower-body.” We’ll have to see about Benson’s speed in the NHL.

What is the current LW depth chart? I think Tippett’s depth chart will be Leon Draisaitl, Milan Lucic, Markus Granlund and Jujhar Khaira. Maybe Joe Gambardella as the extra. A strong training camp gets Benson at least No. 3 on this list, I’ll bet No. 2.

What one thing will get Benson to the NHL? His passing. The only better passing LW on the roster is Draisaitl. He made a pass in the AHL last season that was freaking perfect, I mean memorably perfect. Man. It was so good. No. 6 on this highlight.

What kind of depth chart do you see opening night? I believe there will be a trade, and suspect a veteran scorer to be part of the story.

Like? Let’s take James Neal. If you can add him and subtract Lucic, that makes the depth chart Draisaitl, Neal, Granlund, Khaira and Gambardella.

With Benson the first recall? Yes. Exactly.

Who are his comparables? Based on his boxcars at 20 in the AHL, the list of comparables ranges from meh to wow. Alexander Khokhlachev is a comparable and hasn’t made it yet, but Chris Tierney, Dylan Strome, Daniel Sprong, Markus Granlund all either made it or are on the way. It’s too soon to tell on Nick Merkley.

How much will he score as a rookie? If he plays 60 games in the NHL this season, and gets 12 minutes a night at evens, I’ll say 7-14-21, somewhere in there .

So, no Calder Trophy? If he gets with McDavid anything can happen. However, I think he’ll move up and down the lineup. And to be sure, his rookie season could be next year.

DZINGEL

He signed a two-year deal with the Carolina Hurricanes that looks reasonable on first blush. I rated him, some others did not, but most Oilers fans are frustrated with the lack of a strong scoring addition and a third-line center. Understandable.

At this point, if Holland doesn’t have a move or two in his back pocket, then we’re going to be watching a lot of rookies in what will be a development season. If you know Ken Holland, you also know that runs counter to his own established template.

I think there are many moves to come this summer and suspect the Oilers will be in on a few. Fans are mad at Holland because he hasn’t made any loud noises, but his series of one and two year deals has improved the depth.

I remain convinced there’s a move to come that addresses the top-six forwards. If you subtract Lucic and add Neal to the left side, the Draisaitl-Neal-Granlund-Khaira depth chart might contain 80+ goals — right now I’m estimating 68 for the top for LW’s.

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167 Responses to "Training Camp Hopeful No. 1: Tyler Benson"

  1. GMB3 says:

    I’m surprised Cooper Marody’s name isn’t referenced more in regard to playing RW on a skill line. He was the driver on that line, and he has a ton of skill. We’ve seen slower guys with good hands have success with CMD and Drai.

  2. russ99 says:

    IMO the trade bait is Puljujarvi (especially after the Jokiharu trade setting precedence) and/or Benning (if we can land an inexpensive placeholder vet D who’s better than Gravel via 1 year deal or PTO.)

    Also there’s a good opportunity if we can clear some cap space with all the teams that will need to trade or waive players to get under the cap. Gusev would be a great move, but I don’t see what Vegas wants back without going against Holland’s preference of holding onto picks.

    I doubt anyone takes Lucic until he shows some improvement in his overall game, puck control (winning battles on the wall and the crease again) his conditioning (not gassed on zone entry and then changes on zone exit) and boxcars.

    I also agree on AHL first for Benson, that’s totally Holland’s M.O. and he’d likely give Nygard a shot before calling Benson up, unless we add before the season starts.

    I’m not upset with Holland, he’s been the anti-Chia this offseason so far with low-risk moves to get us out of cap hell next year and slowly add talent from the AHL. May or may not get us playoffs, but puts us in a better place with arrows up not down or sideways in future seasons.

  3. dustrock says:

    I’m not upset with Holland at all. He’s probably figuring out how hard it is to fix the holes on the roster without creating new ones, and he doesn’t know the roster inside and out.

    I also continue to wonder if there are 30 GMs in this league who look at Connor McDavid and don’t want to give the Oilers any help whatsoever.

  4. bwar says:

    There are a few maybes as top 6 wingers heading into camp. I doubt we want to gamble on more than one rookie playing on a skilled line to start the season so maybe Benson or Marody breaks camp with the club. I’d guess the rest of the Bakersfield crew would be battling for spots further down the roster, Gambardella, Currie, Russell. Right now we have at least two clear holes in the top 6 and I’m not confident in any of our options to fill those holes. I would be open to see what we have in Benson, Nygard and Marody on a skilled line to start the season. Maybe something like Draisaitl-McDavid-Marody/Nyagrd and Nyagrd/Benson-RNH-Chiasson. Pushes Kassian down into more of an energy role and gives us a few new looks to try out with McDavid. If it doesn’t work all three players can jump down to the AHL and tear it up.

  5. Cassandra says:

    Holland hasn’t done anything terrible. But he also hasn’t done anything good.

    Teams have made great trades: Jokiharu
    There have been value signings, but the Oilers didn’t make any, even at positions of need like goalie.

    You can’t build a team by treading water. If other teams are making good moves and you are standing still then you are falling behind.

    You can’t expect them to make every deal, but you can expect them to make some of them.

    Imagine some combination ofadding Jokiharu to the D, Dzingel or Connolly to the forwards instead of Chiasson, Mrazak instead of Smith, an offer sheet to Kevin Labanc, Russell out and Perrault in.

    All of these moves actually happened for someone. If you are never the guy who makes the good deals your team isn’t going to get better.

  6. Jethro Tull says:

    Cassandra,

    How about buying out one of only two people that can play the puck moving D role for cap relief, then spend that cap relief on players we already have? If we’re treading water, then it’s while cuddling a bowling ball to our chests.

    It’s been said by someone in the organization, can’t remember who, that Chaisson has to score 20ish goals to cover his contract. So, who feels the pressure from this? The player? Or the coach who now has to play him up the lineup so as he can even smell anywhere close to that, so as his GM doesn’t look like the last one….

  7. who says:

    I read your 2014 draft piece at the Athletic LT. I have 2 concerns.
    1) The Oilers drafted Drai 3OV, Great Job! With their next pick they drafted Lagesson at 91? Looks like a solid 3rd round pick to me. What I don’t understand is the consternation about who they picked after that. Were we expecting a bunch of future NHLers from the 4th round on? Sure you can cherry pick a few guys they could have taken, but that’s complete hindsight. Looks to me like the Oilers did just fine considering the draft picks they had.
    2) You have listed Lucic as 2LW on your depth chart. Surely we can make the call on him by now. He is a 4LW. Period. I haven’t seen some of the new signings play yet but my LW depth chart goes Drai, Khaira, Granlund, Lucic, with guys like Benson and Nygaard pushing some of these guys down the list by Christmas. In no universe should Lucic be starting on Nuges wing. He’s had his chances. Let’s move on already

  8. defmn says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Cassandra,

    It’s been said by someone in the organization, can’t remember who, that Chaisson has to score 20ish goals to cover his contract.

    I’m not sure why anybody in the organization would think $2.15 mil would buy 20 goals. It seems more in line with the pay grade of a 3rd line winger, no?

  9. Lowetide says:

    who:
    I read your 2014 draft piece at the Athletic LT. I have 2 concerns.
    1) The Oilers drafted Drai 3OV, Great Job! With their next pick they drafted Lagesson at 91? Looks like a solid 3rd round pick to me. What I don’t understand is the consternation about who they picked after that. Were we expecting a bunch of future NHLers from the 4th round on? Sure you can cherry pick a few guys they could have taken,but that’s complete hindsight. Looks to me like the Oilers did just fine considering the draft picks they had.
    2) You have listed Lucic as 2LW on your depth chart. Surely we can make the call on him by now. He is a 4LW. Period. I haven’t seen some of the new signings play yet but my LW depth chart goes Drai,Khaira, Granlund, Lucic, with guys like Benson and Nygaard pushing some of these guys down the list by Christmas. In no universe should Lucic be starting on Nuges wing. He’s had his chances. Let’s move on already

    At the point in the rebuild Edmonton found itself in 2014, there was no excuse to draft so many players who weren’t going to turn pro. Lagesson, Nagelvort, Coughlin and Vesel were miles and miles away from pro hockey. It was a terrible bet for a team that badly needed talent, and as I mentioned, forwards. Awful usage of the draft board.

    As for Lucic, he is the one LW on the roster who maintains >50 percent in possession away from McDavid. As none of the current LW’s (Draisaitl aside) provide much offense, he’s the second best option. Sounds crazy but it’s true.

  10. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide,

    Lol, LT, you should do a once in a while “Strange but True Tales of the Oilers”. It should be aired late night/early hours in the pouring rain on the only radio station a lone driver could pick up in a ’50s voice.

  11. JJS says:

    I like Sekera. I really do. But he hasn’t covered the bet on his contract for over 2 years.

    And despite his rehab efforts, he has lost a step when measured in standardized explosiveness on-ice drills (verified first report intel).

    I feel this move was more about protecting against future loses (a hedge) and providing some immediate cap flexibility.

    We, as a fervent fan base, tend to argue it both ways. ‘He needs to do more! He needs to do less! He should clear up some cap space! He should spend to the max!’

    Man, winning sure will cure all

    Jethro Tull:
    Cassandra,

    How about buying out one of only two people that can play the puck moving D role for cap relief, then spend that cap relief on players we already have? If we’re treading water, then it’s while cuddling a bowling ball to our chests.

    It’s been said by someone in the organization, can’t remember who, that Chaisson has to score 20ish goals to cover his contract. So, who feels the pressure from this? The player? Or the coach who now has to play him up the lineup so as he can even smell anywhere close to that, so as his GM doesn’t look like the last one….

  12. BONE207 says:

    I think there are many moves to come this summer and suspect the Oilers will be in on a few. Fans are mad at Holland because he hasn’t made any loud noises, but his series of one and two year deals has improved the depth.

    The problem with the above is that Chia did a similar bet. The 94s plus other castaways that got brought in. For me, I’m all for seeing a fourth line of Gambardella, Currie, Marody, Russell & even OP fave, Malone in whatever permutation that works. A hard working containment line. If they can bat further up the lineup, great.

    Defense: Same…bring in one at a time, Lagesson, Persson, Jones, Bear & perhaps even Day for a shot. No harm in giving prospects incentive.

    Not hev to be med…when the bad contracts are gone, that’s when the rubber hits the road. I hope I’m alive to see it.

  13. who says:

    Lowetide: At the point in the rebuild Edmonton found itself in 2014, there was no excuse to draft so many players who weren’t going to turn pro. Lagesson, Nagelvort, Coughlin and Vesel were miles and miles away from pro hockey. It was a terrible bet for a team that badly needed talent, and as I mentioned, forwards. Awful usage of the draft board.

    As for Lucic, he is the one LW on the roster who maintains >50 percent in possession away from McDavid. As none of the current LW’s (Draisaitl aside) provide much offense, he’s the second best option. Sounds crazy but it’s true.

    I guess we look at drafts differently. My view is the Oilers drafted a star center at 3OV and a potential 3rd pairing dman, who is going to get some NHL games this year at 91OV. Expecting more than this, from that collection of draft picks, seems like wishful thinking.
    I think you are giving too much weight to Lucics possession numbers in your evaluation of him. It’s pretty clear to me that Khaira and Granlund are better players and are at least capable of being complimentary wingers on a skill line. I really haven’t seen this with Lucic since he got here.

  14. Jaxon says:

    russ99: Gusev would be a great move, but I don’t see what Vegas wants back without going against Holland’s preference of holding onto picks.

    Is that really his preference? I’ve seen that mentioned in numerous places, and Holland himself may say that, but over a 16 year period, Holland traded 10 first round picks. 10! That might be the most of any GM in that period.

  15. dolenator says:

    Jaxon,

    How many of those picks were better than 20rh overall? But ya i get what you are saying

  16. BONE207 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Lowetide,

    Lol, LT, you should do a once in a while “Strange but True Tales of the Oilers”. It should be aired late night/early hours in the pouring rain on the only radio station a lone driver could pick up in a ’50s voice.

    30 years ago I used to listen to John Short on radio. After his show, they played the old 50s radio dramas. Some weren’t too bad. LT could easily amuse as well as scare the shit out of all of us with his tales of destruction & ravaging of the Oilers brand. It would be gripping adventure for those lone drivers. Steering wheels beware…

  17. Lowetide says:

    Edmonton Oilers
    @EdmontonOilers
    ·
    3m
    The #Oilers have hired Archie Henderson as Director of Pro Scouting & Tyler Wright as Director of Amateur Scouting, effective immediately.

  18. GMB3 says:

    Cassandra:
    Holland hasn’t done anything terrible.But he also hasn’t done anything good.

    Teams have made great trades:Jokiharu
    There have been value signings, but the Oilers didn’t make any, even at positions of need like goalie.

    You can’t build a team by treading water.If other teams are making good moves and you are standing still then you are falling behind.

    You can’t expect them to make every deal, but you can expect them to make some of them.

    Imagine some combination ofadding Jokiharu to the D, Dzingel or Connolly to the forwards instead of Chiasson, Mrazak instead of Smith, an offer sheet to Kevin Labanc, Russell out and Perrault in.

    All of these moves actually happened for someone.If you are never the guy who makes the good deals your team isn’t going to get better.

    He’s the GM we needed in 2015.

  19. GMB3 says:

    BONE207:
    I think there are many moves to come this summer and suspect the Oilers will be in on a few. Fans are mad at Holland because he hasn’t made any loud noises, but his series of one and two year deals has improved the depth.

    The problem with the above is that Chia did a similar bet. The 94s plus other castaways that got brought in. For me, I’m all for seeing a fourth line of Gambardella, Currie, Marody, Russell & even OP fave, Malone in whatever permutation that works. A hard working containment line. If they can bat further up the lineup, great.

    Defense: Same…bring in one at a time, Lagesson, Persson, Jones, Bear & perhaps even Day for a shot. No harm in giving prospects incentive.

    Not hev to be med…when the bad contracts are gone, that’s when the rubber hits the road.I hope I’m alive to see it.

    I agree, this summer looks similar to the Chia bets made the last two summers. It’s all you can really do when you lack trade assets of value, and need your picks because the prospect pool is thin.

    My concern with Holland is his history of trading players for players. He rarely ever does it. We needed to win a trade or two to turn this ship around this year. At best, we are looking at building down the road (I’m not terribly opposed to this). We don’t have the money to attract players through FA, and we won’t be able to attract them until we are competitive. Edmonton doesn’t make sense for most free agents. Cold city, weak team, dysfunctional organization.

    Holland would have been great to have 4 summers ago.

  20. GMB3 says:

    Jaxon: Is that really his preference? I’ve seen that mentioned in numerous places, and Holland himself may say that, but over a 16 year period, Holland traded 10 first round picks. 10! That might be the most of any GM in that period.

    That’s ignoring the context. There’s a difference between dealing the first in an attempt to try and win the cup and dealing the first in an attempt to be a borderline playoff team.

  21. Alpine says:

    So what happens to Green?

  22. Bag of Pucks says:

    I suspect the biggest shoe to drop will be a resolution of the Puljujarvi situation either through trade or a return to the fold. That really is the flashpoint for how the Top 6 rolls out this season for Holland.

    We talk a lot about the development process, the language barrier, Jesse not being one of the cool kids, etc. But i suspect the current stalemate is largely driven by contract talks.

    This is where Jesse’s agent really bungled things. They fought at every step to avoid the A and now his client is an RFA who hasn’t pissed a drop as a pro. Other lottery RFAs are backing up the Brinks truck and Jesse is saying, “What the hell? I’m a better player than Nylander.”

    Time to prove it or lose it.

  23. Jaxon says:

    I think Maksimov might surprise in camp and in Bakersfield and earn himself a callup. It seems like he not only scored at a great pace but he was among the league leaders in plus/minus and 3rd overall in PIM (including a couple fights), which might indicate that he’s found other dimensions to his game. He’s big (6’3″, 207lbs) and really fast. He’ll be interesting to follow this fall. With all his tools and a more rounded game, the jump to the AHL might not be as big an adjustment as it is for many. One of the Oilers’ biggest needs is a fast pure goal scorer / sniper and Maksimov’s release and shot may be among the best on the team. Maybe he’s one of the 1st call-ups. Stranger things.

  24. Bag of Pucks says:

    Ferland and Dzingel both signed to reasonable contracts.

    Crickets from Ken.

    We’re clearly in an evaluation year. Makes sense from a prudent mgmt pov but doesn’t offer much joy to long suffering fans.

  25. Bag of Pucks says:

    Alpine:
    So what happens to Green?

    Lead pipe in the library?

  26. Jaxon says:

    GMB3: That’s ignoring the context. There’s a difference between dealing the first in an attempt to try and win the cup and dealing the first in an attempt to be a borderline playoff team.

    Fair point. 10 times in 16 years is a bit much, no? He had to know that he was hobbling his future teams to an extreme extent. I also think it’s very GM’s preference to hold onto picks, but Holland has proven that he’s very willing to part with them for the right reasons.

  27. OilSafety says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Ferland and Dzingel both signed to reasonable contracts.

    Crickets from Ken.

    We’re clearly in an evaluation year. Makes sense from a prudent mgmt pov but doesn’t offer much joy to long suffering fans.

    I feel like this makes the unfair asumption that those players on those contracts were available to the Oilers as well. You don’t know what you don’t know. Or rather we all don’t know what we don’t know.

  28. Bag of Pucks says:

    OilSafety: I feel like this makes the unfair asumption that those players on those contracts were available to the Oilers as well. You don’t know what you don’t know. Or rather we all don’t know what we don’t know.

    Yep. I think that’s a fair point.

    We can’t assume that every player that signs elsewhere would consider the Oilers as a viable option.

  29. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Stumbled onto 2017 playoff highlights.

    Man.

    Sekera was so steady. Kassian was on fire. People were so optimistic.

    Now I hope Nygard can score 60P because he has to.

  30. Bag of Pucks says:

    If you’re Jesse, what’s your bigger priority on a potential contract with the Oil: high AAV or longer term?

    A confident player would probably go the shortest term possible with high AAV – betting on himself for a breakout season.

    But 3 years in Edmonton has taught Jesse that icetime and linemates are decisions beyond his control.

    Given the above, you could appreciate why the player wants a fresh start. RNH expressed many of the same frustrations but he’s one of the cool kids and already has the luxe contract.

    First world problems no doubt.

  31. Durag says:

    Bag of Pucks:

    We’re clearly in an evaluation year. Makes sense from a prudent mgmt pov but doesn’t offer much joy to long suffering fans.

    Katz is lucky that fans aren’t evaluating whether or not they should spend money to watch this team.

  32. jonrmcleod says:

    Bag of Pucks: Lead pipe in the library?

    Probably in the observatory.

  33. OmJo says:

    Im not the greatest NBA fan in the world. I do follow the league, just not as closely as I do the Oilers.

    But I have to say, the NBA offseason has been a hell of a lot more exciting, interesting, and entertaining than the NHL offseason. I think I’m genuinely more interested in the upcoming NBA season than the NHL season. Maybe it’s just Oilers fatigue kicking in? Better yet, Oilers hopelessness. As it looks like another season is going to be wasted trying to clean up the mess Chiarelli left.

    To be clear, I don’t blame Holland. Compare the team he inherited to the team Chiarelli inherited. Actually, don’t. Because it might ruin your day. A damn shame. I’ve only been following the team since 2006, but I’m going to say that Peter Chiarelli is by far the worst GM in Oilers history.

  34. OmJo says:

    Durag: Katz is lucky that fans aren’t evaluating whether or not they should spend money to watch this team.

    Oh but they are.

    Edit: I’m talking about season ticket holders here.

  35. BONE207 says:

    Durag: Katz is lucky that fans aren’t evaluating whether or not they should spend money to watch this team.

    Are you kidding???

    I evaluate whether I should turn on the TV on game nights, whether I stick around for the 2nd & 3rd periods, even whether I should open a beer or have a whiskey. I’ve been conditioned to evaluate a lot about this Disorganization over the past number of years. Fortunately, evaluating this blog & it’s leader & members is not needed, only required.

  36. OmJo says:

    GMB3: He’s the GM we needed in 2015.

    So true.

    So sad.

    Instead we got a GM who thought he was Santa Claus to everybody but Oilers fans.

  37. McNuge93 says:

    OmJo:
    Im not the greatest NBA fan in the world. I do follow the league, just not as closely as I do the Oilers.

    But I have to say, the NBA offseason has been a hell of a lot more exciting, interesting, and entertaining than the NHL offseason. I think I’m genuinely more interested in the upcoming NBA season than the NHL season. Maybe it’s just Oilers fatigue kicking in? Better yet, Oilers hopelessness. As it looks like another season is going to be wasted trying to clean up the mess Chiarelli left.

    To be clear, I don’t blame Holland. Compare the team he inherited to the team Chiarelli inherited. Actually, don’t. Because it might ruin your day. A damn shame. I’ve only been following the team since 2006, but I’m going to say that Peter Chiarelli is by far the worst GM in Oilers history.

    I don’t really like how in the NBA the animals run the zoo. Players getting together and arranging signing together and stacking certain teams and how the star players constantly move around. The NHL is not as mercenary as the NBA.

  38. texmex says:

    Promote the man to VP of all the other VP’s.

    Jim Matheson
    @NHLbyMatty
    ·
    Jul 12
    Tyler Wright is taking Bob Green’s job as head of amateur scouting but Oilers want to keep Green, who’s done a nice job picking players the last several drafts, in the organization, so we’ll see…

  39. OmJo says:

    Jaxon: Is that really his preference? I’ve seen that mentioned in numerous places, and Holland himself may say that, but over a 16 year period, Holland traded 10 first round picks. 10! That might be the most of any GM in that period.

    While true, he was in a totally different situation in Detroit. He was building a contender. Here, he’s trying to build an NHL team first and foremost.

    I’d still trade picks for Gusev.

  40. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: But 3 years in Edmonton has taught Jesse that icetime and linemates are decisions beyond his control.

    And that’ll be different in another NHL city?

  41. Lowetide says:

    Jaxon: Fair point. 10 times in 16 years is a bit much, no? He had to know that he was hobbling his future teams to an extreme extent. I also think it’s very GM’s preference to hold onto picks, but Holland has proven that he’s very willing to part with them for the right reasons.

    Did they trade down or out? I’m looking at the years go by and they seem to pick most every year, save for a run between 2009-12.

  42. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    No cup in the Oil future with Leon at LW. He needs to push the river as 2C. Might as well start this process now and stick with it. That’s what he was drafted to do and that’s where he can best help the team moving forward. Neither he nor Connor will like it, but the goal is a cup, not more Hart trophies.

    If Benson and Marody do not make this team out of the gate, receiving meaningful ice time, I would view this as another in a long line of massive lost opportunities. The time to see what these two can contribute is now.

  43. OmJo says:

    McNuge93: I don’t really like how in the NBA the animals run the zoo. Players getting together and arranging signing together and stacking certain teams and how the star players constantly move around. The NHL is not as mercenary as the NBA.

    I get that too. The NBA has had its share of super teams in the past and present. But I think the players are fixing that themselves, ironically.

    At the same time, I think it makes more sense for the NBA than the NHL as rosters are smaller. The players are closer. And it does keep things fresh when stars move around. It makes the upcoming season more unpredictable, which they’ve lacked for the last few years with Golden State, and before that with Miami.

  44. JimmyV1965 says:

    GMB3: That’s ignoring the context. There’s a difference between dealing the first in an attempt to try and win the cup and dealing the first in an attempt to be a borderline playoff team.

    I think you can stand this argument on its head. It’s better to spend a first round pick in the offseason rather than the trade deadline, and you get much more value for that pick now.

    The Jets used a first round pick to get Kevin Hayes at the deadline. His impact was less than impressive. That same first round pick at this time of the year will likely get you a much better player, someone like Chris Kreider.

    You can also argue that a non-playoff team will derive more value from trading its first round pick than a playoff team. Kevin Hayes is much more likely to have a meaningful impact on a roster like the Oilers, rather than a roster like the Jets.

  45. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Not sure if anyone iw a Wimbledon Fan. I have been blessed in my life to have a few very captivating rivalries: tennis has been good for that:

    1) Mac v Borg (as a little kid, just caught me, tennis bug after than

    2) Lendl v Mac, Conners (Lendl was just a machine, made them submit to his will at the end

    3) Edberg v Becker : when Becker won wimbledon at 17 and I was 15, I knew my tennis aspirations were over…

    4) Agassi v Sampras: never really loved either of them, but great contrasts in style

    5) Fedal: just a great 15 year run of amazing tennis, and of course Djokovic

    – Good tennis with established players and personalities is just so good:

    – And on the women’s side: from Graff to Seles to Williams: but there hasn’t been a “historc” rivalary in women’s tennis since Evert v Navratilova. Graff v Gabby, i guess but Graff owned her…

    ALLEZ ROGER!!!!

  46. Bag of Pucks says:

    ArmchairGM: And that’ll be different in another NHL city?

    Jesse may feel that other teams have an actual, ya know…development plan.

  47. barry.moore23 says:

    From Dustrock above : I also continue to wonder if there are 30 GMs in this league who look at Connor McDavid and don’t want to give the Oilers any help whatsoever.

    Good point. We can always hope for the best. Sometimes, as in all of life, that is not going to happen. And that’s OK. Life will go on. That being said I am as obsessed as you guys and gals so ‘rats’ 🙂

  48. Scungilli Slushy says:

    As for acquisitions I’m not sure Gusev is an answer for the Oilers. Completely unproven in the NHL.

    Jokiharu is a smaller D; Holland said he prefers bigger players there. They also already have Persson, Benning and Bear non of whom are big for D, P and B also being more offensive types as well.

    Connor and Leon being so young need experienced competent wingers to help them and relieve some defensive pressure and help carry a rookie as they start moving up soon.

    The fellows he has signed are very likely seen as bottom 6 options unless there is a real surprise in one of them.

  49. GMB3 says:

    JimmyV1965: I think you can stand this argument on its head. It’s better to spend a first round pick in the offseason rather than the trade deadline, and you get much more value for that pick now.

    The Jets used a first round pick to get Kevin Hayes at the deadline. His impact was less than impressive. That same first round pick at this time of the year will likely get you a much better player, someone like Chris Kreider.

    You can also argue that a non-playoff team will derive more value from trading its first round pick than a playoff team. Kevin Hayes is much more likely to have a meaningful impact on a roster like the Oilers, rather than a roster like the Jets.

    True, but you don’t know the value of a first round pick in the summer. In Edmonton, you could be trading Lafreniere, Byfield, or Raymond for Kevin Hayes? As a cap strapped shitty team, that’s a short sighted move.

    I’m all for keeping the first round picks in general. If a combination of Pulju and the 8th got us Ehlers, a young cost controlled, proven scorer? Then maybe you entertain the idea. I think trading the 2020 first would be a massive error.

  50. Scungilli Slushy says:

    dustrock:
    I’m not upset with Holland at all. He’s probably figuring out how hard it is to fix the holes on the roster without creating new ones, and he doesn’t know the roster inside and out.

    I also continue to wonder if there are 30 GMs in this league who look at Connor McDavid and don’t want to give the Oilers any help whatsoever.

    I’ve read GMs saying things along these lines about other teams. But at the same time they are under heavy pressure to improve their team, so I don’t think that stops them if Holland offers something they want, and Holland is also well liked universally.

    I don’t think Holland is, and certainly hope that he isn’t, learning anything on the job. That is different than adapting to changing circumstances in the league. But if anyone has been in a job for as long as he has and is learning very much, that is a very bad sign, at that point in a career you should have things fully in your back pocket.

    It’s like LTs 5 years experience or 1 years experience 5 times.

    I also think because Holland works hard he does have a good idea about the roster and what he thinks is lacking from playing the Oilers for years. He won’t know the room per se and the personalities, but again after a couple of decades it shouldn’t take long to have a strong impression about things. If it does again it’s a bad sign.

  51. GMB3 says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    As for acquisitions I’m not sure Gusev is an answer for the Oilers. Completely unproven in the NHL.

    Jokiharu is a smaller D; Holland said he prefers bigger players there. They also already have Persson, Benning and Bear non of whom are big for D, P and B also being more offensive types as well.

    Connor and Leon being so young need experienced competent wingers to help them and relieve some defensive pressure and help carry a rookie as they start moving up soon.

    The fellows he has signed are very likely seen as bottom 6 options unless there is a real surprise in one of them.

    His comparables in the KHL all scored pretty well in the NHL. Homerun potential.

  52. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Jesse may feel that other teams have an actual, ya know…development plan.

    What would an example of that be?

  53. OmJo says:

    dustrock: I also continue to wonder if there are 30 GMs in this league who look at Connor McDavid and don’t want to give the Oilers any help whatsoever.

    Crosby has been with the Pens since 2005-06. Since then they’ve acquired Hossa, Kunitz, Neil, Kovalev, Jokinen, Hornqvist, Perron (heh) and *takes breath* Kessel all from trades.

    If the Pens can get help with both Crosby and Malkin, surely we can, no?

  54. OmJo says:

    JimmyV1965: What would an example of that be?

    Just name a team that doesn’t have a different lineup every period of every game like the Oilers had last season.

  55. JimmyV1965 says:

    GMB3: True, but you don’t know the value of a first round pick in the summer. In Edmonton, you could be trading Lafreniere, Byfield, or Raymond for Kevin Hayes? As a cap strapped shitty team, that’s a short sighted move.

    I’m all for keeping the first round picks in general. If a combination of Pulju and the 8th got us Ehlers, a young cost controlled, proven scorer? Then maybe you entertain the idea. I think trading the 2020 first would be a massive error.

    I actually agree with this. The top of the 2020 draft is supposed to be spectacular. I might do it lottery protected and I would be willing to trade the 2021 pick.

  56. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: Jesse may feel that other teams have an actual, ya know…development plan.

    A development plan that leaves ice time and linemates under control of the player? Never heard of such a thing.

  57. dustrock says:

    OmJo: Crosby has been with the Pens since 2005-06. Since then they’ve acquired Hossa, Kunitz, Neil, Kovalev, Jokinen, Hornqvist, Perron (heh) and *takes breath* Kessel all from trades.

    If the Pens can get help with both Crosby and Malkin, surely we can, no?

    Oh absolutely. I meant there is a lingering resentment of the organization for getting McDavid after historic incompetence.

  58. ArmchairGM says:

    OmJo: Just name a team that doesn’t have a different lineup every period of every game like the Oilers had last season.

    But having just hired Tippett supposedly hasn’t changed Jesse’s mind.

  59. Oilman99 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Jesse may feel that other teams have an actual, ya know…development plan.

    Jesse”s immaturity, and agent interference, both contributed to help hamper his development. The Oilers are not totally to blame for his failure to develop into the player they thought they had.

  60. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    ArmchairGM: A development plan that leaves ice time and linemates under control of the player? Never heard of such a thing.

    I completely agree with this statement. Since when does a player dictate line mates, icetime, particularly a rather junior player at that? And saying the “other team” will have “a development plan”, this makes the assumption that JP can actually follow, attend to and learn from said development plan.

    Again, people make all sorts of wild assumptions about what the Oilers do or don’t do that is to blame for failed prospects.

    We have (unless we have an organizational insider among us here) no actual knowledge of how JP responds to coaching direction, systems, etc and no way of knowing why there appears to be a rift between him and other players. So all anyone can do is speculate.

    To lay all the blame on one side of the equation (Oilers) and absolve the other side is illogical.

    Edit: What Oilman99 said too!

  61. JimmyV1965 says:

    The Oilers have failed miserably in the development of JP up to this point. But going forward what development plan can there possibly be? No team can send him to the minors so you’re basically left with the choice of what line to slot him on, special teams and ice time. I would expect any team he’s traded to puts him on the third line. I suppose if they have a better 3C, it helps push his development. Still think the best thing for his development is Europe, but that’s a decision JP can only make.

  62. Bag of Pucks says:

    ArmchairGM: A development plan that leaves ice time and linemates under control of the player? Never heard of such a thing.

    Not what i was suggesting. It’s unlikely that Jesse sees a method in the Oiler madness, so even though icetime and linemates are not his call, you could understand why he might second guess the team’s decisions in this area. And how that might impact his current contract negotiations.

    It’s important to remember that RNH also groused a bit about not having stable linemates.

    Both Hitch and MacLellan were blenders. It didn’t serve the team well imo.

  63. Bag of Pucks says:

    Oilman99: Jesse”s immaturity, and agent interference, both contributed to help hamper his development. The Oilers are not totally to blame for his failure to develop into the player they thought they had.

    Totally agree. In fact, i fault the player & agent more than the org.

  64. OilSafety says:

    Bag of Pucks: s

    I’m hoping for a lucic Russell puljujarvi for Neal bennet exchange. Or Russell puljujarvi for elhers.

  65. Doug McLachlan says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Ferland and Dzingel both signed to reasonable contracts.

    Crickets from Ken.

    We’re clearly in an evaluation year. Makes sense from a prudent mgmt pov but doesn’t offer much joy to long suffering fans.

    Ferland and Connolly both wanted 4 years and I am ok that Holland drew the line at 3. Neither project to be core players so if you are only going to add a complimentary piece, then I agree with Holland that you don’t give term.

    The Dzingle signing hurt. Like LT, I really saw him as an undervalued/underappreciated speedster who could potentially do some damage with the Oilers. But the US factor is real, as LT has mentioned in the past, and another factor not to be dismissed is his fiancé is Elise Lobb who is making her career in golf. She’s not on a pro tour to my knowledge but she does have a golf-centered media presence that would involve doing a lot more work on the golf course in November-February. Again, not something I’m going to hold Holland responsible for.

    I am expecting that he has some irons in the fire to address the Lucic and Puljujarvi situations as well as the 3rd line center/2nd line scoring winger issues.

    Doubt it will be enough to get us to the second season but it would demonstrate more foresight than we’ve seen around this organization in years – and that is worth something.

  66. Bag of Pucks says:

    JimmyV1965: What would an example of that be?

    Progressive escalation through each league and up the depth chart with each team. Player has to kill it at one level before being progressed to the next.

    Jesse kills it on the first line in the A for sufficient sample size, he gets the call to the dance. He then has to kill it on the 4th line before moving to the 3rd etc. That would’ve been ideal.

  67. godot10 says:

    OmJo: Crosby has been with the Pens since 2005-06. Since then they’ve acquired Hossa, Kunitz, Neil, Kovalev, Jokinen, Hornqvist, Perron (heh) and *takes breath* Kessel all from trades.

    If the Pens can get help with both Crosby and Malkin, surely we can, no?

    Cap management is a thing.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    I would think that Benson has a solid shot at the team out of camp – either in the middle six or the top 6.

    You know what? What if he gels with Nuge as 2LW (or Drai as 2Lw). And outs up 50 points.

    I’m not expecting it but it wouldn’t be totally unreasonable.

    Go Oiler!

    Go Benson!

  69. kavy says:

    Lowetide: At the point in the rebuild Edmonton found itself in 2014, there was no excuse to draft so many players who weren’t going to turn pro. Lagesson, Nagelvort, Coughlin and Vesel were miles and miles away from pro hockey. It was a terrible bet for a team that badly needed talent, and as I mentioned, forwards. Awful usage of the draft board.

    I agreed with that assessment at the time, especially that Coughlin was an indefensible draft pick, though I think with hindsight we can say it wasn’t a misstep that cost us much. The ~120 picks from Lagesson on have only produced about four to six serviceable NHL forwards (Arvidsson, Heinen, Labanc, Kase, maybe Wallmark and Lindblom). You would like better bets, but there also just wasn’t much available. That being said, Arvidsson going right after Nagelvoort hurts.

    2015 is what killed us.

  70. OmJo says:

    dustrock: Oh absolutely. I meant there is a lingering resentment of the organization for getting McDavid after historic incompetence.

    Fair point!

    ArmchairGM: But having just hired Tippett supposedly hasn’t changed Jesse’s mind.

    Maybe he reads Oilers blogs and sees that the more things change with this organization the more they stay the same?

  71. OmJo says:

    Oilman99: Jesse”s immaturity, and agent interference, both contributed to help hamper his development. The Oilers are not totally to blame for his failure to develop into the player they thought they had.

    Unless Jesse and his agent demanded that he played in the NHL right out of the draft and put up a fight when the Oilers said that’s not gonna happen, then I’d argue they really are totally to blame.

    The Oilers development strategy of throwing shit at the wall and hoping it eventually sticks is the problem. That appears to be being rectified finally. But the kid was doomed the minute they traded Hall after drafting him, crowning him the Hall replacement.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    As I stated yesterday, looking at Jesse’s rookie season in the AHL as an 18 year old – those are very very good numbers. He was the youngest player in the league and two years younger than most are even eligible.

    There is absolutely a top-6 talent there, maybe even a top line talent.

    Its time to re-set Jesse – just sign a $1.2M X 1 deal, work your ass off this spring (training and recovery) and earn yourself some solid minutes in the top 9.

    You’ve got the skill – not show the smarts and the dedication.

    Please.

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    Benson may make the team, however, as LT suggests, given the European signings probably have the upper hand, he may start in the AHL – with that said, I don’t foresee 30 games – injury and/or failure to produce (and there are many that could fail to produce – Granlund, Nygard, Hass, Jurco) likely leads to an earlier recall.

    Will be fun to see Benson in the NHL whether its October, November or February.

  74. OmJo says:

    Bag of Pucks: Jesse kills it on the first line in the A for sufficient sample size, he gets the call to the dance. He then has to kill it on the 4th line before moving to the 3rd etc. That would’ve been ideal.

    You had me until 4th line. If you’re doing well as a top line AHLer and earning a call up, you should be put in a position to succeed in the NHL. Put offensive players in offensive roles.

  75. OmJo says:

    godot10: Cap management is a thing.

    I was responding to the idea that teams don’t want to give us good players in trades because we have McDavid.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    I could see a trade this off-season but, given Holland’s verbal since he got the job and at the end of the day on July 1, I still think the expectation should be a 3C and not a top 6 winger – he has never said he was going to acquire a top 6 winger (only obtuse responses when the media presses him on a “20 goal scorer”), however, he has expressly stated he needs to acquire a 3C.

    Further, there are many 3C options available in free agency (Sheehan, Marleau, Lindberg, Boyle) and potential by trade (Eakin – Vegas needs to shed still , Frolik, etc.).

  77. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: Progressive escalation through each league and up the depth chart with each team. Player has to kill it at one level before being progressed to the next.

    Jesse kills it on the first line in the A for sufficient sample size, he gets the call to the dance. He then has to kill it on the 4th line before moving to the 3rd etc. That would’ve been ideal.

    You’d put your skill prospects on the 4th line? WTF kind of “development plan” is that?!

  78. Bag of Pucks says:

    OmJo: You had me until 4th line. If you’re doing well as a top line AHLer and earning a call up, you should be put in a position to succeed in the NHL. Put offensive players in offensive roles.

    The benefit of this approach is you become a well rounded player AND as you grow in the organization, you establish chemistry with all of your teammates. And it lessens the pressure to be a scorer immediately.

    It’s the cross training approach as opposed to immediate specialization.

    On the 4th line, you might get some PK experience. On the 3rd, you get some forechecking and checking reps. Etc.

    I think it also helps to make teams closer. You get an appreciation for what the grunts do cos you had to do it in your rook days.

  79. Bag of Pucks says:

    ArmchairGM: You’d put your skill prospects on the 4th line? WTF kind of “development plan” is that?!

    Tom Brady was once a third string QB with the Patriots. True story.

    Curtis Glencross first established himself as a 4th line Oiler before he became a Top 6 Flame.

  80. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: Tom Brady was once a third string QB with the Patriots. True story.

    Curtis Glencross first established himself as a 4th line Oiler before he became a Top 6 Flame.

    Glencross was a consensus 3rd overall pick and sure-fire future superstar, was he?

  81. ArmchairGM says:

    Imagine how good McDavid would be today if McLellan had started him on the 4th line as an 18-year-old rookie.

  82. Bag of Pucks says:

    ArmchairGM: Glencross was a consensus 3rd overall pick and sure-fire future superstar, was he?

    That’s entitlement talking imo

    Jesse has proven none of those things. He’s closer to bust than superstar, and sure-fire? Seriously. How can you post that with a straight face?

  83. Bag of Pucks says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Imagine how good McDavid would be today if McLellan had started him on the 4th line as an 18-year-old rookie.

    How long do you think it would’ve taken McDavid to kill it on the 4th line and move to the 3rd?

    I would guess a game or two max. Do you think those 2 games would really have stunted his development?

    Connor would’ve climbed the depth chart like a house on fire. This process would not have held him back.

    By contrast, Jesse has not killed it anywhere on the depth chart. This is a prospect badly in need of patience and dues paying. He looks lost in the Top 6

  84. Jordan says:

    I think that a lot of the options available to the Oilers right now are questionable bets for the holes they have.

    As such, while it might be most reasonable to just move the next guy in the roster up a spot, that does mean that the trio on that line will be successful.

    When I look at Benson, I see a guy who can think the game at a high level and make plays. He’s no burner, but should be able to make sure hinges happen on the ice with his passing. But for that to be meaningful, he has to play with players who can take advantage of both his intelligence and passes, without his skating being a liability.

    This is why playing him with Nuge is so compelling. He can shoot, pass, and is positionally smart enough to cover for mistakes. My question is who plays 2RW with that pair?

    Marodyakea a lot of sense, except that leaves the whole line light on the physicality department and NHL experience.. Chiasson might be a better fit,for physicality and experience, but leave the line slow. Haas might be the fastest option but all of the other characteristics are a real crap shoot on RW, but we don’t know if he plays wing, or just Center. Gagner lacks speed and physicality, but might be the most offensively gifted option there. I don’t think you can consider Jesse in this position until he shows some kind of effectiveness as a RW.

    I’m very curious to see what the coaches prioritize with their roster construction. Maybe this will be a lost season, but based on the players they have available, it looks to me like there are real options for an effective 2nd and 3rd line.

  85. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Progressive escalation through each league and up the depth chart with each team. Player has to kill it at one level before being progressed to the next.

    Jesse kills it on the first line in the A for sufficient sample size, he gets the call to the dance. He then has to kill it on the 4th line before moving to the 3rd etc. That would’ve been ideal.

    Unfortunately that ship has sailed for any team that employs him.

  86. Rube Foster says:

    Bag of Pucks: By contrast, Jesse has not killed it anywhere on the depth chart. This is a prospect badly in need of patience and dues paying. He looks lost in the Top 6

    That particular narrative of Puljujarvi is not entirely accurate. Math demonstrates that Puljujarvi has performed well with McDavid. If you don’t agree with that, don’t place your disagreement with me, be mad at Math:)

    The Oilers ran Jesse at the beginning of 2018 with Lucic and Strome. The line sawed off the opposition but could not piss a drop offensively.

    To remedy this problem the Oilers brain trust determined the best course of action would be to yo-yo the young Finn in and out of the line-up and trade Strome. They also decided that the smart thing to do and the solution to their offensive woes was to keep giving cherry minutes including PP time to Lucic.

    We now know how that story ended, Strome went on to score 18 goals in 63 games once he was unshackled from the offensive vacuum that is Lucic. And young Jesse was never provided with an opportunity to gain traction anywhere in the line-up, whether that be in Edmonton or Bakersfield. He was also playing with a chronic hip injury that required season-ending surgery.

    Can we all agree that the reason Strome and Puljujarvi did not produce any offence for the first 20 games of the seasons was that they were lugging around the offensive black hole that is Milan Lucic?

    Or are we going to run Jesse out of town like we did Strome, for the crime of not being able to score goals in the NHL whilst playing with Milan Lucic?

    The moral of the story – who you play with matters in the NHL. If we want to unlock the offensive potential of Jesse Puljujarvi the Oilers have a very unique silver bullet, his name is Connor McDavid.

  87. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jordan:
    I think that a lot of the options available to the Oilers right now are questionable bets for the holes they have.

    As such, while it might be most reasonable to just move the next guy in the roster up a spot, that does mean that the trio on that line will be successful.

    When I look at Benson, I see a guy who can think the game at a high level and make plays.He’s no burner, but should be able to make sure hinges happen on the ice with his passing.But for that to be meaningful, he has to play with players who can take advantage of both his intelligence and passes, without his skating being a liability.

    This is why playing him with Nuge is so compelling.He can shoot, pass, and is positionally smart enough to cover for mistakes.My question is who plays 2RW with that pair?

    Marodyakea a lot of sense, except that leaves the whole line light on the physicality department and NHL experience..Chiasson might be a better fit,for physicality and experience, but leave the line slow.Haas might be the fastest option but all of the other characteristics are a real crap shoot on RW, but we don’t know if he plays wing, or just Center.Gagner lacks speed and physicality, but might be the most offensively gifted option there. I don’t think you can consider Jesse in this position until he shows some kind of effectiveness as a RW.

    I’m very curious to see what the coaches prioritize with their roster construction.Maybe this will be a lost season, but based on the players they have available, it looks to me like there are real options for an effective 2nd and 3rd line.

    This is a real and spectacular problem when you don’t have any legit top six wingers. It’s great to have Benson on a line with RNH, but this becomes a massive challenge when the other winger is garbage. If a rookie is playing on the second line, he needs to be the third best player on that line. He needs to be the passenger feeding off the efforts of the vets. I think this is very much an under appreciated issue with our roster construction. We are simply making it more difficult for rookies to have success at the NHL level.

  88. Rube Foster says:

    JimmyV1965: This is a real and spectacular problem when you don’t have any legit top six wingers. It’s great to have Benson on a line with RNH, but this becomes a massive challenge when the other winger is garbage. If a rookie is playing on the second line, he needs to be the third best player on that line. He needs to be the passenger feeding off the efforts of the vets. I think this is very much an under appreciated issue with our roster construction. We are simply making it more difficult for rookies to have success at the NHL level.

    Your Edmonton Oilers – Throwing Rookies into the deep end since forever!!

    I thought Holland was supposed to save us from ourselves and fix that?

  89. JimmyV1965 says:

    Rube Foster: That particular narrative of Puljujarvi is not entirely accurate.Math demonstrates that Puljujarvi has performed well with McDavid. If you don’t agree with that, don’t place your disagreement with me, be mad at Math:)

    The Oilers ran Jesse at the beginning of 2018 with Lucic and Strome.The line sawed off the opposition but could not piss a drop offensively.

    To remedy this problem the Oilers brain trust determined the best course of action would be to yo-yo the young Finn in and out of the line-up and trade Strome.They also decided that the smart thing to do and the solution to their offensive woes was to keep giving cherry minutes including PP time to Lucic.

    We now know how that story ended, Strome went on to score 18 goals in 63 games once he was unshackled from the offensive vacuum that is Lucic.And young Jesse was never provided with an opportunity to gain traction anywhere in the line-up, whether that be in Edmonton or Bakersfield.He was also playing with a chronic hip injury that required season-ending surgery.

    Can we all agree that the reason Strome and Puljujarvi did not produce any offence for the first 20 games of the seasons was that they were lugging around the offensive black hole that is Milan Lucic?

    Or are we going to run Jesse out of town like we did Strome, for the crime of not being able to score goals in the NHL whilst playing with Milan Lucic?

    The moral of the story – who you play with matters in the NHL.If we want to unlock the offensive potential of Jesse Puljujarvi the Oilers have a very unique silver bullet,his name is Connor McDavid.

    It will be very difficult for JP to have success in Edmonton. He shouldn’t be playing with McDavid and facing the toughest competition in the league. If we play him lower in the order, which is the ideal placement for him, we don’t have enough skill to make it work. He needs to play in Europe because he is almost certain to fail here.

  90. Rube Foster says:

    JimmyV1965: It will be very difficult for JP to have success in Edmonton. He shouldn’t be playing with McDavid and facing the toughest competition in the league. If we play him lower in the order, which is the ideal placement for him, we don’t have enough skill to make it work. He needs to play in Europe because he is almost certain to fail here.

    Math and OP disagree with you.

  91. London Jon says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Not sure if anyone iw a Wimbledon Fan.I have been blessed in my life to have a few very captivating rivalries: tennis has been good for that:

    1) Mac v Borg (as a little kid, just caught me, tennis bug after than

    2) Lendl v Mac, Conners (Lendl was just a machine, made them submit to his will at the end

    3) Edberg v Becker : when Becker won wimbledon at 17 and I was 15, I knew my tennis aspirations were over…

    4) Agassi v Sampras: never really loved either of them, but great contrasts in style

    5) Fedal: just a great 15 year run of amazing tennis, and of course Djokovic

    – Good tennis with established players and personalities is just so good:

    – And on the women’s side: from Graff to Seles to Williams: but there hasn’t been a “historc” rivalary in women’s tennis since Evert v Navratilova.Graff v Gabby, i guess but Graff owned her…

    ALLEZ ROGER!!!!

    Nice to see some tennis chat. I’m a massive tennis fan.

    Couldn’t agree more – we have been ridiculously spoilt with Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. We are really going to miss them when they’re gone – especially Federer.

    And tennis in the summer is one of the best things about living in London. I saw Nadal pre-Wimbledon at Hurlingham, got Federer and Serena on CC last Tuesday and I was there today in great seats for two amazing semis. The tennis was arguably consistently a higher level in the first semi although of course Federer/Nadal had the sprinkling of stardust. It just didn’t quite get going as a match.

    Got a table lined up with a bunch of friends in an outdoor restaurant for the final.

    No idea who the next big tennis rivalry will be.

    I saw Felix twice at Queens this year and he looks very solid. No weaknesses. Friend of mine who’s a pro tennis coach says he’s a future number one. I hope he properly comes through as a contender so I get a Canadian to cheer for again! Milos and Eugenia have faded and Shapovalov doesn’t seem to have the weapons.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    GMB51:
    I’m surprised Cooper Marody’s name isn’t referenced more in regard to playing RW on a skill line. He was the driver on that line, and he has a ton of skill. We’ve seen slower guys with good hands have success with CMD and Drai.

    He was definitely the driver on that line but his advanced age is huge at that stage – what Benson did as a 20-year old rookie is simply more impressive.

    Of course, that doesn’t discount Marody being an option for this year’s roster. I think some are probably jaded by him being so ineffective in his NHL time – just behind the play almost all the time. Of course, 6 games, averaging under 7 minutes per game ,can’t tell too much of a story. Most minutes with Lucic then Khaira, P. Russell.

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    Just got home from a nice 17km hike in Kananskis (why work on a Friday) so catching up on everything Oilers – haven’t had a chance to listen to what Tippett had to say on the Gregor show today but I do like the sounds of a couple of quotes that Jason provided:

    Jason Gregor

    Verified account

    “When players have the puck, it is more freelance, and you have to support, but a lot of what I watch for is how they play away from the puck and how the five guys can play together. One guy out of sync can really hurt the others.” Tippett #Oilers

    “I’m currently watching the game against Washington. There is 3:52 left in the third. I’m watching how the group plays, but also I’m watching different individuals. I have all the Oilers games and Bakersfield. I’ll watch a bit every day this summer.” Tippett #Oilers

  94. GMB3 says:

    Rube Foster: Math and OP disagree with you.

    The math is such a small sample size. It does not definitively mean he deserves to be there.

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: I guess we look at drafts differently. My view is the Oilers drafted a star center at 3OV and a potential 3rd pairing dman, who is going to get some NHL games this year at 91OV.Expecting more than this,from that collection of draft picks, seems like wishful thinking.
    I think you are giving too much weight to Lucics possession numbers in your evaluation of him. It’s pretty clear to me that Khaira and Granlund are better players and are at least capable of being complimentary wingers on a skill line. I really haven’t seen this with Lucic since he got here.

    Just a nitpick on a tertiary point, however, I see Lagesson as a potential 2nd pairing d-man – I think he’s likely NHL ready right now for the 3rd pairing and, while not sure bet, I think he could develop in to a solid 22 min 2LD within a year or two – he can defend and defend aggressively – that’s his calling card but he can also skate and move the puck. He’s built for the new NHL. Maybe the skills don’t translate to the NHL, we don’t know, but we are going to find out and I’m excited to watch the show.

  96. Bag of Pucks says:

    GMB3: The math is such a small sample size. It does not definitively mean he deserves to be there.

    This.

  97. OmJo says:

    Bag of Pucks: The benefit of this approach is you become a well rounded player AND as you grow in the organization, you establish chemistry with all of your teammates. And it lessens the pressure to be a scorer immediately.

    It’s the cross training approach as opposed to immediate specialization.

    On the 4th line, you might get some PK experience. On the 3rd, you get some forechecking and checking reps. Etc.

    I think it also helps to make teams closer. You get an appreciation for what the grunts do cos you had to do it in your rook days.

    See, I think that kind of development should be taken care of at the AHL level at the latest. I’d be curious to see how many teams actually employ this kind of development system in today’s NHL. How many first round picks in the last decade started on the 4th line and went on to have productive NHL careers.

    Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in this league, if you have a player who can do it I think its counterproductive to play them in situations where they can’t do it. I’m all for making their transition to the NHL as smooth as possible in the hopes it’ll help the team win.

  98. OmJo says:

    Bag of Pucks: How long do you think it would’ve taken McDavid to kill it on the 4th line and move to the 3rd?

    I would guess a game or two max. Do you think those 2 games would really have stunted his development?

    Connor would’ve climbed the depth chart like a house on fire. This process would not have held him back.

    By contrast, Jesse has not killed it anywhere on the depth chart. This is a prospect badly in need of patience and dues paying. He looks lost in the Top 6

    Well he would have had to go back to Jr first, then the AHL in his second season, and then make it to the NHL as a 4th liner.

    But that wasn’t a great example by ArmChairGM (no offense) because McDavid isn’t the typical prospect. He’s McDavid. Other players would – and have – struggled getting 4line treatment on the Oilers…

  99. Bag of Pucks says:

    OmJo: See, I think that kind of development should be taken care of at the AHL level at the latest. I’d be curious to see how many teams actually employ this kind of development system in today’s NHL. How many first round picks in the last decade started on the 4th line and went on to have productive NHL careers.

    Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in this league, if you have a player who can do it I think its counterproductive to play them in situations where they can’t do it. I’m all for making their transition to the NHL as smooth as possible in the hopes it’ll help the team win.

    The Oilers must agree with you. They’ve been fast tracking prospects into tough minute roles forever.

  100. OmJo says:

    Rube Foster,

    Good post!

    Strome finished with 18 goals and 33pts in 68 games in NYR, playing mainly with… Namestnikov and Fast. It’s actually hilarious that the Oilers literally did the opposite of a pump-and-dump with Strome. How’s that for coach-GM coordination?

  101. OmJo says:

    Bag of Pucks: The Oilers must agree with you. They’ve been fast tracking prospects into tough minute roles forever.

    I’m not saying fast track, unless it’s some special case like McDavid. I proposed a system a while back where players spend their first draft season in whatever junior league they belong to, then at least one full year in the AHL and don’t see NHL time until they’re a certain age, I think it was at least 20. I’m cool with over ripening as the old folks (well, Holland) likes to put it.

    I’m all for AHL development. But when it comes to highly skilled players who earn their call-up due to their offensive gifts, I’m all for putting them in an offensive role on the team, even if that means 3Line with PP2 time for their first call-up. Playing them with 4th liners after going through the AHL is like asking them to climb Everest right after they climbed Kilimanjaro.

    IMO.

  102. OmJo says:

    JimmyV1965: It will be very difficult for JP to have success in Edmonton. He shouldn’t be playing with McDavid and facing the toughest competition in the league. If we play him lower in the order, which is the ideal placement for him, we don’t have enough skill to make it work. He needs to play in Europe because he is almost certain to fail here.

    Or… the second line?

    JP should be fine in a 3Line that’s far away from Milan Lucic.

    Edit: This doesn’t mean no to Europe. He should have been there all along…

  103. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar: He was definitely the driver on that line but his advanced age is huge at that stage – what Benson did as a 20-year old rookie is simply more impressive.

    Of course, that doesn’t discount Marody being an option for this year’s roster.I think some are probably jaded by him being so ineffective in his NHL time – just behind the play almost all the time.Of course, 6 games, averaging under 7 minutes per game ,can’t tell too much of a story. Most minutes with Lucic then Khaira, P. Russell.

    IMO his age should give him an advantage over Benson.

    I think we as a group should agree to not evaluate players who were forced to play with Lucic by their time spent playing with Lucic, lol… I’m noticing a common theme here.

  104. OmJo says:

    GMB3: The math is such a small sample size. It does not definitively mean he deserves to be there.

    Honestly though… what is there to lose at this point? If it works, it works.

    Just be sure to explain to JP and his agent when it comes time to negotiate his next contract. And if he doesn’t like that, trade him.

  105. OmJo says:

    Wow what did I do?

    /spam

  106. who says:

    kavy: I agreed with that assessment at the time, especially that Coughlin was an indefensible draft pick, though I think with hindsight we can say it wasn’t a misstep that cost us much. The ~120 picks from Lagesson on have only produced about four to six serviceable NHL forwards (Arvidsson, Heinen, Labanc, Kase, maybe Wallmark and Lindblom). You would like better bets, but there also just wasn’t much available. That being said, Arvidsson going right after Nagelvoort hurts.

    2015 is what killed us.

    Yeah 2015 was the death blow. I also think they bungled the 2013 draft worse than 2014.. All they have to show for 2013 is Nurse. And they had more, and better, picks than 2014.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jaxon:
    I think Maksimov might surprise in camp and in Bakersfield and earn himself a callup. It seems like he not only scored at a great pace but he was among the league leaders in plus/minus and 3rd overall in PIM (including a couple fights), which might indicate that he’s found other dimensions to his game. He’s big (6’3″, 207lbs) and really fast. He’ll be interesting to follow this fall. With all his tools and a more rounded game, the jump to the AHL might not be as big an adjustment as it is for many. One of the Oilers’ biggest needs is a fast pure goal scorer / sniper and Maksimov’s release and shot may be among the best on the team. Maybe he’s one of the 1st call-ups. Stranger things.

    I know LT speaks about his play away from the puck etc. potentially keeping him from the NHL but, from what I’ve seen and read on Maksimov, aside from his elite level shot (which is indeed his main weapon), he has a broad range of skills.

    His scoring rates dropped off in the 2nd half of the season this past year but that was after Niagara loaded up and Maksimov accepted a less offensive role and more 2-way responsibility. He continued to produce, of course, however, he took on tougher minutes and did very well in the role. He also was a top PK in the OHL this past year. From accounts, he has a dedicated work ethic as well.

    I don’t see him as a realistic call-up option this year like you do – in fact, I actually think he will struggle early on in the Bake but gain traction as the year goes on. At the same time, I think he could very well become a real piece of the middle or top 6 in a few years.

    Really excited to see how he does as a pro this year.

    So many things to watch for.

  108. Rube Foster says:

    GMB3: The math is such a small sample size. It does not definitively mean he deserves to be there.

    They said the same thing about Yakupov and McDavid.

    You know, it’s not like there is a long lineup of offensively skilled wingers suited up for the Oilers blocking Jesse’s path.

    Why they wouldn’t consider at least trying the two together for a period of time is … so Oilers.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    BagPucks:
    Ferland and Dzingel both signed to reasonable contracts.

    Crickets from Ken.

    We’re clearly in an evaluation year. Makes sense from a prudent mgmt pov but doesn’t offer much joy to long suffering fans.

    4 year term to a guy with 3 recent concussions who’s game is predicated on being extremely physical and has not shown that game (and struggled big time since his last concussion) – I would not be happy if the Oilers signed that player to that term.

    Dzingels contract is reasonable but I we have zero idea if Holland was akin to “crickets” – for all we know Holland offered more term and/or AAV and Dzingel simply had no interest in Edmonton or the west or whatever.

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    OilSafety: I feel like this makes the unfair asumption that those players on those contracts were available to the Oilers as well. You don’t know what you don’t know. Or rather we all don’t know what we don’t know.

    Exactly and agreed.

  111. OriginalPouzar says:

    BagofPucks:
    If you’re Jesse, what’s your bigger priority on a potential contract with the Oil: high AAV or longer term?

    A confident player would probably go the shortest term possible with high AAV – betting on himself for a breakout season.

    But 3 years in Edmonton has taught Jesse that icetime and linemates are decisions beyond his control.

    Given the above, you could appreciate why the player wants a fresh start. RNH expressed many of the same frustrations but he’s one of the cool kids and already has the luxe contract.

    First world problems no doubt.

    I’m quite confident that, if Jesse signs back with the Oilers, he’ll be looking for a one-year term.

  112. JimmyV1965 says:

    Rube Foster: Math and OP disagree with you.

    I would be absolutely shocked if the coach didn’t agree with me. JP would need some kind of magical training camp to start on the first line. It just won’t happen.

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    DecidedlySkepticalFan:
    No cup in the Oil future with Leon at LW. He needs to push the river as 2C. Might as well start this process now and stick with it. That’s what he was drafted to do and that’s where he can best help the team moving forward. Neither he nor Connor will like it, but the goal is a cup, not more Hart trophies.

    Leon has proven to be able to drive offence away from McDavid, even with middling and tweener linemates. The problem in the past was his defensive inconsistency (not helped by tweener linemates) and leaking goals against.

    Recall, the one thing to be always thankful to Ken Hitchcock for was what he did with Drai. From accounts, it was indeed tough love, however, the player that Drai was for the last few months of the season was different and incredible. Even take away the offence and the goal scoring and the fact that on as many nights as not he was the driver of the offence every bit as much if not more than McDavid, his overall game was VASTLY improved. The consistency and effort that he showed shift in and shift out, in all zone, including the defensive zone, was magnificent. He turned in to a plus defensive center in addition to the offence and is also the team’s best faceoff guy.

    Drai is 100% ready for that 2C role assuming he doesn’t revert or regress back.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sounds like Voynov is going to sign for another year in the KHL.

    Not surprised that no NHL team would take him (assuming that is the case).

  115. OmJo says:

    OP, is Jared Busch (a Youtuber) your brother? I’m kidding. But seriously, you two look eerily similar with the beards.

    (I’m not trying to be an ass btw.)

  116. OmJo says:

    JimmyV1965: I would be absolutely shocked if the coach didn’t agree with me. JP would need some kind of magical training camp to start on the first line. It just won’t happen.

    Didn’t he have a really excellent pre-season last season (along with Rattie). Didnt help much in TMac’s eyes.

  117. Rube Foster says:

    JimmyV1965: I would be absolutely shocked if the coach didn’t agree with me. JP would need some kind of magical training camp to start on the first line. It just won’t happen.

    History shows us that Chia, McLellan, MacT and long list of Oiler Management types agree with your line of thinking.

    How has that worked out for us?

    What do the Oilers have to lose by running Jesse with Connor? Give them 20 games together, we’ll find out if it works.

    20 games with McDavid can not hurt Jesse’s value. If they aren’t delivering results after 20 games you loan Jesse back to his pro team in Finland to see if he can find his mojo there -which is right back to where we are today.

    Or let me put it this way, are you going to bet against Connor McDavid helping Jesse to deliver offence? Is anybody, including Puljujarvi going to be happy with him delivering predictably poor offensive results playing on what is almost certainly going to be a poor to bad NHL third line?

    Hypothetically As the line-up stands now, how much offense is a line of let’s say Khaira – Haas – Puljujarvi going to generate? Why set the kid up for failure? Why is it so hard for us to put the kid in an optimal position to succeed?

    Are we all afraid of Puljujarvi “stealing” first line minutes from Zack Kassian?

    The question Sam Pollock would be asking is “How do we best rebuild some value in the asset that is Jesse Puljujarvi?”. Once you’ve rebuilt some value then Old Sam would ask “are we a better team with Jesse or can I get a better return for him in the NHL market place?”

    It’s time for the Oilers to start playing chess, not checkers.

  118. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: That’s entitlement talking imo

    Jesse has proven none of those things. He’s closer to bust than superstar, and sure-fire? Seriously. How can you post that with a straight face?

    That’s certainly the way he was viewed on opening night 3 years ago.

  119. OriginalPouzar says:

    OmJo: Crosby has been with the Pens since 2005-06. Since then they’ve acquired Hossa, Kunitz, Neil, Kovalev, Jokinen, Hornqvist, Perron (heh) and *takes breath* Kessel all from trades.

    If the Pens can get help with both Crosby and Malkin, surely we can, no?

    I don’t imagine the Oilers have McDavid has any factor on if another manager transacts or doesn’t transact with the Oilers.

    If a manager has a deal on the table that he thinks helps his team, he’s not going to not do it because the deal could also benefit a team with McDavid.

    That is silly.

  120. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: How long do you think it would’ve taken McDavid to kill it on the 4th line and move to the 3rd?

    I would guess a game or two max. Do you think those 2 games would really have stunted his development?

    Connor would’ve climbed the depth chart like a house on fire. This process would not have held him back.

    By contrast, Jesse has not killed it anywhere on the depth chart. This is a prospect badly in need of patience and dues paying. He looks lost in the Top 6

    Every NHL coach who ever lived disagrees with your development plan. Are you the smartest man in the room or are you dead wrong? I’ll bet the latter.

  121. OriginalPouzar says:

    dustrock: Oh absolutely. I meant there is a lingering resentment of the organization for getting McDavid after historic incompetence.

    Historical incompetence or very similar incompetence to the Pens themselves in the years leading up to drafting, and immediately after drafting Crosby?

    If you want historic incompetence, take a look the the Red Wings for two decades before they got good.

  122. Rube Foster says:

    OriginalPouzar: Leon has proven to be able to drive offence away from McDavid, even with middling and tweener linemates.The problem in the past was his defensive inconsistency (not helped by tweener linemates) and leaking goals against.

    Recall, the one thing to be always thankful to Ken Hitchcock for was what he did with Drai.From accounts, it was indeed tough love, however, the player that Drai was for the last few months of the season was different and incredible.Even take away the offence and the goal scoring and the fact that on as many nights as not he was the driver of the offence every bit as much if not more than McDavid, his overall game was VASTLY improved. The consistency and effort that he showed shift in and shift out, in all zone, including the defensive zone, was magnificent.He turned in to a plus defensive center in addition to the offence and is also the team’s best faceoff guy.

    Drai is 100% ready for that 2C role assuming he doesn’t revert or regress back.

    McDavid – Puljujarvi
    Nuge – Leon

    Actually appear to resemble the framework for a competive top six.
    If the Oilers pair Leon and Connor together, you’re asking Nuge to climb Everest every night.

  123. OriginalPouzar says:

    OilSafety: I’m hoping for a lucic Russell puljujarvi for Neal bennet exchange. Or Russell puljujarvi for elhers.

    I would posit you they would need to add a very substantial piece to the Ehlers trade – like a Samorukov piece.

  124. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: You’d put your skill prospects on the 4th line? WTF kind of “development plan” is that?!

    The Todd McLellan and Dave Tippett plan – see Cooper Marody.

  125. JimmyV1965 says:

    Rube Foster: They said the same thing about Yakupov and McDavid.

    You know, it’s not like there is a long lineup of offensively skilled wingers suited up for the Oilers blocking Jesse’s path.

    Why they wouldn’t consider at least trying the two together for a period of time is … so Oilers.

    This isn’t a development league. The coach will construct a lineup that gives him the best chance to win. And I highly doubt that means JP on the first line. It’s fine to tinker when your out of contention, but not to start the season. So maybe you do it after 20 games when the season is written off.

  126. Bag of Pucks says:

    ArmchairGM: Every NHL coach who ever lived disagrees with your development plan. Are you the smartest man in the room or are you dead wrong? I’ll bet the latter.

    You’re dead wrong about this. Sather not only put Messier on the 4th line more than once. He banished him to the A for missing a flight. There are numerous examples of Red Wings who cut their teeth in the bottom 6 before elevating to the higher skill lines, Datsyuk and Fedorov included.

    I’ve provided ample reasoning for my argument while all you’ve done is shout your opinions and now insult.

    We’re done here.

  127. GMB3 says:

    Rube Foster: They said the same thing about Yakupov and McDavid.

    You know, it’s not like there is a long lineup of offensively skilled wingers suited up for the Oilers blocking Jesse’s path.

    Why they wouldn’t consider at least trying the two together for a period of time is … so Oilers.

    I don’t disagree, but I feel a lot of posters and people on twitter come to the conclusion that JP makes CMD better and I don’t see it. I’ve seen the math, but it seems relatively inconsequential at that sample size.

    JP has not helped the team. He’s low event at least. I’m all for giving him time on McDavids wing, but I don’t think the math proves anything at that size of a sample.

  128. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: He was definitely the driver on that line but his advanced age is huge at that stage – what Benson did as a 20-year old rookie is simply more impressive.

    Of course, that doesn’t discount Marody being an option for this year’s roster.

    Marody is quite a bit younger than Nygard though, and the Swede is often mentioned as a top-6 option.

  129. OriginalPouzar says:

    BagofPucks: How long do you think it would’ve taken McDavid to kill it on the 4th line and move to the 3rd?

    I would guess a game or two max. Do you think those 2 games would really have stunted his development?

    Connor would’ve climbed the depth chart like a house on fire. This process would not have held him back.

    By contrast, Jesse has not killed it anywhere on the depth chart. This is a prospect badly in need of patience and dues paying. He looks lost in the Top 6

    The Oilers used your development plan on Jesse last year.

    He got sent to the AHL and killed it – 4 points in 4 games, 17 shots, fight, best player on the ice in two of the 4 games.

    One would think a bigger sample size is required but, as per your post above, a game or two is enough.

    He was brought up – Hitch put him up the lineup, that lasted a period and he was demoted.

  130. ArmchairGM says:

    GMB3: The math is such a small sample size. It does not definitively mean he deserves to be there.

    Bits of 3 years combined is no longer a tiny sample size. And others got that opportunity with no prerequisites at all, why should Jesse be treated differently?

  131. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: The Oilers must agree with you. They’ve been fast tracking prospects into tough minute roles forever.

    Are we talking about Jesse still? He’s not a prospect any longer, he’s a 3 year veteran. He has played on all 4 lines and in the AHL, yet it’s universally accepted that the Oilers have screwed up his development. They shouldn’t hold him back now, he should be placed wherever he and the team succeed best.

  132. Rube Foster says:

    JimmyV1965: This isn’t a development league. The coach will construct a lineup that gives him the best chance to win. And I highly doubt that means JP on the first line. It’s fine to tinker when your out of contention, but not to start the season. So maybe you do it after 20 games when the season is written off.

    Have you seen our present line-up? Only Reja thinks the current line-up is in contention.

    And I for one, like I do every year, I hope that Reja is right!

    But really, given the current line-up, who NOT named Leon or Nuge has a better skill set to play with Connor than Jesse?

    EDIT: I do appreciate the fact that you are consigned to the current iteration of the Oilers being out of contention after the first 20 games and the season being “written off” a quarter of the way down the road… same as it ever was.

    Which reading between the lines, really means you don’t believe this version of the Oilers to be contenders in any way shape or form. Which further means it’s silly to wait until we’re 7-13 to try Jesse and Connor together… just say’in.

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Marody is quite a bit younger than Nygard though,and the Swede is often mentioned as a top-6 option.

    I don’t think he should be mentioned as a top 6 option but, yes, he has been.

    I think he should be mentioned as an option to make the team in a bottom 6/PK role – to expect Nygard, with his zero games in the NHL and non-top scoring rates in Sweden, to be a top 6 players, well, seems, unreasonable to me.

  134. Rube Foster says:

    GMB3: I don’t disagree, but I feel a lot of posters and people on twitter come to the conclusion that JP makes CMD better and I don’t see it. I’ve seen the math, but it seems relatively inconsequential at that sample size.

    JP has not helped the team. He’s low event at least. I’m all for giving him time on McDavids wing, but I don’t think the math proves anything at that size of a sample.

    I am being a bit redundant here, but there are presently only two forwards in the line-up that one can actually say help to make Connor better – Leon and Nuge.

    The point of the exercise I am extolling is “How do we make Jesse better”?

    Seeing as it’s such a beautiful day I’ll grant you that the Connor and Jesse data set is awfully small… but it is intriguing!

  135. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Exactly and agreed.

    Albertan’s inferiority complex never ceases to amaze.

  136. godot10 says:

    OmJo: I was responding to the idea that teams don’t want to give us good players in trades because we have McDavid.

    The Oilers can’t get help because they have no cap space. Cap management is a thing. The Oilers have $14 million in effectively dead cap….$10 million if you like Russell.

  137. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: The Todd McLellan and Dave Tippett plan – see Cooper Marody.

    Tippett? And Marody isn’t on the same level as JP, skill wise. Just about every NHL bottom-6 guy was a top-6 guy in a lower league. It’s not a legitimate development path for your #4 overall pick though.

  138. ArmchairGM says:

    Bag of Pucks: You’re dead wrong about this. Sather not only put Messier on the 4th line more than once. He banished him to the A for missing a flight. There are numerous examples of Red Wings who cut their teeth in the bottom 6 before elevating to the higher skill lines, Datsyuk and Fedorov included.

    I’ve provided ample reasoning for my argument while all you’ve done is shout your opinions and now insult.

    We’re done here.

    Datsyuk and Federov didn’t start on the 4rh line, sorry. And sitting a guy for insubordination isn’t a development plan, I.e. they didn’t sit dow in the summer and decide that Messier would bounce around the lineup. So those “examples” don’t prove your point at all.

  139. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar: Leon has proven to be able to drive offence away from McDavid, even with middling and tweener linemates.The problem in the past was his defensive inconsistency (not helped by tweener linemates) and leaking goals against.

    Recall, the one thing to be always thankful to Ken Hitchcock for was what he did with Drai.From accounts, it was indeed tough love, however, the player that Drai was for the last few months of the season was different and incredible.Even take away the offence and the goal scoring and the fact that on as many nights as not he was the driver of the offence every bit as much if not more than McDavid, his overall game was VASTLY improved. The consistency and effort that he showed shift in and shift out, in all zone, including the defensive zone, was magnificent.He turned in to a plus defensive center in addition to the offence and is also the team’s best faceoff guy.

    Drai is 100% ready for that 2C role assuming he doesn’t revert or regress back.

    I agree with this. I don’t want to get into a discussion as to whether or not McDavid is worth $12.5 mil per year but I do think that if somebody makes that much the team cannot afford to provide him with a $8.5 mil winger and expect to have balanced scoring.

    Time to separate McDavid & Draisaitl and make them both drive their own line regardless of how effective they are together.

    There is no path forward that I can see until they make that move.

    jmo

  140. Twinkle Mo' Fo' Toes says:

    On May 4th I posted a Lucic for Sutter, Russell for Neal, Eriksson for Frolik 3-way deal on Capfriendly.

    I wonder if this floats anyone’s boats…..

  141. pts2pndr says:

    ArmchairGM: Marody is quite a bit younger than Nygard though,and the Swede is often mentioned as a top-6 option.

    Nygard is a plus skater, extremely fast, Marody is not.

  142. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Albertan’s inferiority complex never ceases to amaze.

    Pardon?

  143. Mr DeBakey says:

    What role will be play in Edmonton? Based on the current depth chart, I have Benson as the No. 2 LW on a line with Draisatl and Chiasson.

    I also have McDavid with Kassian & Dzingel [the new Eberle].
    In this scenerio, Nuge is paired up in threes with Granlund and Panik [the new Pisani].
    Gagner centers the 4th line with Khaira and Currie.

    Balance.
    Every line ready and able to contribute.

    I got nuthin’

  144. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Tippett? And Marody isn’t on the same level as JP, skill wise. Just about every NHL bottom-6 guy was a top-6 guy in a lower league. It’s not a legitimate development path for your #4 overall pick though.

    Sorry, that was supposed to be Ken Hitchcock and I was actually siding with you.

    Every AHL player brought up last year was essentially saddled with sporadic minutes on the 4th line.

  145. rickithebear says:

    Most on here talk like social justice warriors.
    Trite inaccurate unsupported opinions not supported by real facts.

    What are these Holes?

    PP unit PPG/60 fwds league rank
    #21 Chaisson 9.72
    #26 Draisaitl 9.62
    #31 Mcdavid 9.43
    #37 RNH 9.25
    A smart GM gives top unit as much of PPTOI
    Cause PP#2 is below avg.

    PPG fwd league rank PP goal mass
    #6 Draisaitl 16 Ppg
    #32 Mcdavid 9 PPG
    #42 RNH 8 PPG
    #42 Chaisson 8 PPG

    Players with top 6 EVTOI play that have achieved in any of the last 4 seasons.
    1st line by position EVG
    MCdavid C
    Draisaitl C,LW, RW
    RNH C
    Lucic LW in 3-2-1 system.
    Granlund RW

    Top 4 fwd EVG any of last 4 seasons
    Kassian RW
    Chaisson LW, RW
    Puljujarvi RW

    Top 6 fwd EVG any of last 4 seasons
    Gagner RW
    Khaira LW

    Any one who questions Chaisson signing is lying to themselves and to others.
    He is a first unit PP fwd with 1st/ 2nd line W EVG production.
    The Chaisson narrative on her is delusional.

    Jurco had 1st line EG pace in 2 of 4 seasons he played 29+ goals.
    Top 4 EG pace in 3 of 4 seasons.

    Draisaitl – Mcdavid – Kassian
    Chaisson – RNH – Granlund
    Khaira – Gagner – Jurco

    We have 6 direct open sh wingers for our top 9.
    If we run 3-2-1 system then we would have 7.

    The one weakness I pointed out about Puljujarvi was his direct open shot targeting.
    Some of the worst since Scott Gomez.
    Yet 2 years ago he achieved 2nd line winger EG mass.

    We are talking 8 top 6 forward wingers.
    These are results based facts.
    Not constructed Narratives.

    Today’s universities have departments that do not use data based theorems.
    They use constructed narratives.
    It sickens me!

    Our holes are at
    PK fwd.
    Not one Fwd above PKGA/60 avg.

    And
    High games played performance 2D – 1G Low Open HD SH event Dmen
    You want at least 5-6 to be this.
    We have Larsson, Benning, Russell
    Lagesson looks like a sure bet low open HD sh event Dmen.

    A higher 3-1-1-1 structure resulted in GA season totals that were 40 – 50g higher than 16-17 3-2-1 Def structured season.
    Once again a clear technical reason for not making the playoffs.
    Not some constructed narrative.
    That occupies minds trained in awful constructionist based uni.

  146. Rebillled says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I’m glad Tippett is looking at a lot of tape now. Looking at individuals and how they work in the group. Music.

    Hopefully he’ll be on a Tippett tape parade all summer.

    #fixthismess

  147. ArmchairGM says:

    pts2pndr: Nygard is a plus skater, extremely fast, Marody is not.

    Rieder is fast too. Still not a top-6 option.

  148. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Pardon?

    Come on, do I really have to explain it to you?

  149. rickithebear says:

    godot10: The Oilers can’t get help because they have no cap space.Cap management is a thing.The Oilers have $14 million in effectively dead cap….$10 million if you like Russell.

    What a brutal constructionist Narative.
    It is embarrassing the way our education system is teaching our children in a delusional non- realistic way.

    Fact:
    Shots that are in open space are 100% of the ones that go in.
    Russel is the best Dman in the game at reducing corsi to 0% shots.

    +ve Goal differential wins games.
    You get that by increasing GF and reducing GA.
    Anyone that conclude Russell is not one of the best GA reduction players in the game.
    Is relying on a constructive narrative rather than the truth.
    He has unreplaceable championship core value.

    Constructive Narative is a product of institutions that are making people dumb illogical thinkers.

  150. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Come on, do I really have to explain it to you?

    If your implication is that agreeing with someone who you agree with equates to insecurity then, yes, absolutely.

  151. Rube Foster says:

    rickithebear:
    Most on here talk like social justice warriors.
    Trite inaccurate unsupported opinions not supported by real facts.

    What are these Holes?

    PP unit PPG/60 fwds league rank
    #21 Chaisson9.72
    #26 Draisaitl 9.62
    #31 Mcdavid 9.43
    #37 RNH 9.25
    A smart GM gives top unit as much of PPTOI
    Cause PP#2 is below avg.

    PPG fwd league rank PP goal mass
    #6 Draisaitl 16 Ppg
    #32 Mcdavid 9 PPG
    #42 RNH 8 PPG
    #42 Chaisson 8 PPG

    Players with top 6 EVTOI play that have achieved in any of the last 4 seasons.
    1st line by position EVG
    MCdavid C
    Draisaitl C,LW, RW
    RNH C
    Lucic LW in 3-2-1 system.
    Granlund RW

    Top 4 fwd EVG any of last 4 seasons
    Kassian RW
    Chaisson LW, RW
    Puljujarvi RW

    Top 6 fwd EVG any of last 4 seasons
    Gagner RW
    Khaira LW

    Any one who questions Chaisson signing is lying to themselves and to others.
    He is a first unit PP fwd with 1st/ 2nd line W EVG production.
    The Chaisson narrative on her is delusional.

    Jurco had 1st line EG pace in 2 of 4 seasons he played 29+ goals.
    Top 4 EG pace in 3 of 4 seasons.

    Draisaitl – Mcdavid – Kassian
    Chaisson – RNH – Granlund
    Khaira – Gagner – Jurco

    We have 6 direct open sh wingers for our top 9.
    If we run 3-2-1 system then we would have 7.

    The one weakness I pointed out about Puljujarvi was his direct open shot targeting.
    Some of the worst since Scott Gomez.
    Yet 2 years ago he achieved 2nd line winger EG mass.

    We are talking 8 top 6 forward wingers.
    These are results based facts.
    Not constructed Narratives.

    Today’s universities have departments that do not use data based theorems.
    They use constructed narratives.
    It sickens me!

    Our holes are at
    PK fwd.
    Not one Fwd above PKGA/60 avg.

    And
    High games played performance 2D – 1G Low Open HD SH event Dmen
    You want at least 5-6 to be this.
    We have Larsson, Benning, Russell
    Lagesson looks like a sure bet low open HD sh event Dmen.

    A higher 3-1-1-1 structureresulted in GA season totals that were 40 – 50g higher than 16-17 3-2-1 Def structured season.
    Once again a clear technical reason for not making the playoffs.
    Not some constructed narrative.
    That occupies minds trained in awful constructionist based uni.

    Dear Mr. Bear,

    I luv ya!
    I’m thrilled to see you posting again because I take that as a sign of your recovering health!
    But, I find reading your posts a little bit like reading the “other” side of the Cereal Box. I think I know what you’re talking about… but I’m never quite sure exactly what you’re saying or trying to explain.
    You dear Sir are as confounding as you are entertaining, bless your heart.
    I’ve never been accused of being a social justice warrior before… but if comprehension of your messages is the bar, colour me a snowflake:)

    Respectfully,

    Rube

  152. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Discounting any established player that failed on the Oilers recently is a false narrative.

    Lucic has good underlying numbers and was never a great producer. Rieder was a smaller fast forward that was never a producer but had a role. Etc etc.

    IF Tippet can get the team together we will see all boats rise with the tide. I don’t mean anything other than a consistent game in and out effort, Holland has to do the rest.

    I think the defensive core is key to winning in the NHL, and the Oiler’s D core has been handled poorly given the talent there and acquisitions made.

    Next season we have a lot of quality depth even if some are green. Which is why Holland I think doesn’t see that as a priority.

    Maybe he’s angling to set up a deal, but he may also see there are bigger fish to fry.

    St Louis D corp isn’t exactly a fantasy game group. Effectiveness and buy in mean a lot more. And the tools to be competent.

  153. Bulging Twine says:

    FW’s requiring waivers next season:

    McDavid
    Draisattl
    Nuge
    Kassian
    Chiasson
    Puljujarvi
    Lucic
    Gagner
    Granlund
    Khaira
    Brodziak
    Jurco
    Cave
    Malone
    Gambardella
    Russell
    Currie
    ———–
    17

    FW’s who can be sent down without waivers:

    Nygaard
    Haas
    Marody
    Yamamoto
    Benson
    McLeod
    Hebig

    Who are they willing/not willing to risk losing on waivers?

    There are quite a few guys I would be okay risking losing on waivers, although not wanting to lose them.

  154. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sorry, that was supposed to be Ken Hitchcock and I was actually siding with you.

    Every AHL player brought up last year was essentially saddled with sporadic minutes on the 4th line.

    4th line is fine as long as it’s constructed the right way.

    If you’re asking Rattie or JP eyc to be on a grinder banger line, fail.

    If you have put a sheltered O line together to outscore weaker players then show us what you’ve got.

    I feel McL and Hitch wanted a pint of blood first.

    Times change, some people don’t.

  155. Jaxon says:

    Lowetide: Did they trade down or out? I’m looking at the years go by and they seem to pick most every year, save for a run between 2009-12.

    97 traded #22, first pick was #49. More: he was not yet GM at this draft, he was director of amateur scouting

    98 first pick was #25, traded #41, picked #55 & #56
    99 traded #23, #47, #59 and #91, first pick was #120
    00 first pick was #29, picked #38, traded #64
    01 traded #29, first pick was #62
    02 traded #30, first pick was #58, picked #63
    03 traded #27, first pick was #64
    04 traded #29, and #64, there first pick was #97
    05 first pick was #19, picked #42
    06 traded #29, first pick was #41, picked #47, picked #62
    07 first pick was #27, traded #58
    08 first pick was #30, traded #61
    09 traded #29, first pick was #32, picked #60
    10 first pick was #21, picked #51
    11 traded #24, first pick was #35, picked #48, #55
    12 traded #19, first pick was #49
    13 traded #18, first pick was #20, picked #48, and #58
    14 first pick was #15, traded #48
    15 first pick was #19, traded #49
    16 traded #16, drafted #20, #46, and #53
    17 first pick was #9, picked #38
    18 first pick was #6, picked #30, #33, #36

    From 1998 to 2012 (15 drafts) had only 6 picks in the top 32, traded out of the top round in 9 of 15 drafts (technically 10, but I’m considering the future Seattle 32 team league as first round for this purpose).

    2011 was interesting, but 24 to 35 is a big gamble.
    He made some great moves to stock the cupboards in 2013, 2016, and 2018. I’d really welcome those types of moves in Edmonton.

    His team has also been very good at finding gems late in the draft and it’s good to see her has made some moves to improve Edmonton’s scouting team today.

  156. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Rube Foster: That particular narrative of Puljujarvi is not entirely accurate.Math demonstrates that Puljujarvi has performed well with McDavid. If you don’t agree with that, don’t place your disagreement with me, be mad at Math:)

    The Oilers ran Jesse at the beginning of 2018 with Lucic and Strome.The line sawed off the opposition but could not piss a drop offensively.

    To remedy this problem the Oilers brain trust determined the best course of action would be to yo-yo the young Finn in and out of the line-up and trade Strome.They also decided that the smart thing to do and the solution to their offensive woes was to keep giving cherry minutes including PP time to Lucic.

    We now know how that story ended, Strome went on to score 18 goals in 63 games once he was unshackled from the offensive vacuum that is Lucic.And young Jesse was never provided with an opportunity to gain traction anywhere in the line-up, whether that be in Edmonton or Bakersfield.He was also playing with a chronic hip injury that required season-ending surgery.

    Can we all agree that the reason Strome and Puljujarvi did not produce any offence for the first 20 games of the seasons was that they were lugging around the offensive black hole that is Milan Lucic?

    Or are we going to run Jesse out of town like we did Strome, for the crime of not being able to score goals in the NHL whilst playing with Milan Lucic?

    The moral of the story – who you play with matters in the NHL.If we want to unlock the offensive potential of Jesse Puljujarvi the Oilers have a very unique silver bullet,his name is Connor McDavid.

    Here here!
    Or
    Hear hear!

  157. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    JimmyV1965: This is a real and spectacular problem when you don’t have any legit top six wingers. It’s great to have Benson on a line with RNH, but this becomes a massive challenge when the other winger is garbage. If a rookie is playing on the second line, he needs to be the third best player on that line. He needs to be the passenger feeding off the efforts of the vets. I think this is very much an under appreciated issue with our roster construction. We are simply making it more difficult for rookies to have success at the NHL level.

    So put him on the first line

  158. JimmyV1965 says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Discounting any established player that failed on the Oilers recently is a false narrative.

    Lucic has good underlying numbers and was never a great producer. Rieder was a smaller fast forward that was never a producer but had a role. Etc etc.

    IF Tippet can get the team together we will see all boats rise with the tide. I don’t mean anything other than a consistent game in and out effort, Holland has to do the rest.

    I think the defensive core is key to winning in the NHL, and the Oiler’s D core has been handled poorly given the talent there and acquisitions made.

    Next season we have a lot of quality depth even if some are green. Which is why Holland I think doesn’t see that as a priority.

    Maybe he’s angling to set up a deal, but he may also see there are bigger fish to fry.

    St Louis D corp isn’t exactly a fantasy game group. Effectiveness and buy in mean a lot more. And the tools to be competent.

    Nice post. I hope you’re right.

  159. JimmyV1965 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: So put him on the first line

    The problem with putting a rookie on the first line is they are facing the best forwards and dmen in the league each and every night. Ideally, you want to shelter these kids with other talented players on the second and third lines.

  160. OilFan en Puerto says:

    Cassandra,

    Cassandra, while I appreciate the conviction you have in your opinions, and you seem to ooze confidence! Do you mind me asking what industry you are in, what experiences career wise have led you to have such belief that you could navigate the hurdles better than Holland.

  161. jp says:

    Rube Foster: That particular narrative of Puljujarvi is not entirely accurate.Math demonstrates that Puljujarvi has performed well with McDavid. If you don’t agree with that, don’t place your disagreement with me, be mad at Math:)

    The Oilers ran Jesse at the beginning of 2018 with Lucic and Strome.The line sawed off the opposition but could not piss a drop offensively.

    To remedy this problem the Oilers brain trust determined the best course of action would be to yo-yo the young Finn in and out of the line-up and trade Strome.They also decided that the smart thing to do and the solution to their offensive woes was to keep giving cherry minutes including PP time to Lucic.

    We now know how that story ended, Strome went on to score 18 goals in 63 games once he was unshackled from the offensive vacuum that is Lucic.And young Jesse was never provided with an opportunity to gain traction anywhere in the line-up, whether that be in Edmonton or Bakersfield.He was also playing with a chronic hip injury that required season-ending surgery.

    Can we all agree that the reason Strome and Puljujarvi did not produce any offence for the first 20 games of the seasons was that they were lugging around the offensive black hole that is Milan Lucic?

    Or are we going to run Jesse out of town like we did Strome, for the crime of not being able to score goals in the NHL whilst playing with Milan Lucic?

    The moral of the story – who you play with matters in the NHL.If we want to unlock the offensive potential of Jesse Puljujarvi the Oilers have a very unique silver bullet,his name is Connor McDavid.

    I’m generally a Jesse supporter, but a few things here.

    1) Lucic sucks. I agree. But I don’t think we can pin all the failures of other Oilers players on him.

    2) Strome is fine, but the 18 goals (+1 with the Oilers) is a career high. He hadn’t approached 0.5PPG for 3 season’s (2 with the Islanders and another one + with the oilers before he was traded). He’d averaged 11 goals a year on the 3 yrs prior to the trade. I don’t think Lucic can be blamed for his struggles to start this past season.

    3) McDavid may be the silver bullet for Puljujarvi. And for those questioning the sample size, it’s over 400 minutes. That’s 2-3 seasons of first unit PP or PK time for instance. If that’s too small a sample size let us never speak again about who is and is not good on special teams (or who Chiasson may or may not be a drag on).

    4) I digressed on the small sample size thing. Puljujarvi has been very good with McDavid. The problem is he’s been kinda terrible with everyone else. Career with McDavid 2.06P/60. Career without McDavid 0.83 P/60.
    Most common linemates in order: Lucic, McDavid, Nuge, Strome, Khaira, Draisaitl, Caggiula, Maroon, Pouliot. The guy has had pretty good linemates even when without McDavid. This stuff about him being relegated to the 4th line is way overblown and only occurred for a short time this past season (career minutes with other centers: Letestu 64 min, Brodziak 51, Cave 34)

    5) Lucic has actually been a positive influence on Puljujarvi. I can’t separate out the effects of Lucic+McDavid since the NST line tool seems not to be working at the moment, but Puljujarvi is 1.16P/60 with Lucic. 1.14P/60 overall for his career.
    Check this out (JP career with Lucic/without Lucic):
    CF% 52.2/48.3
    FF% 52.7/48.8
    SF% 50.4/47.7
    GF% 53.5/41.9
    xGF% 53.3/47.4
    SCF% 52.8/47.6
    HDCF% 53.9/42.9

    Pinning JP and Strome’s struggles on Lucic seems completely unfair to me. And Puljujarvi has issues of his own. I’d still give him a chance with McDavid, but I feel like we should acknowledge that he hasn’t performed well in really any other situation.

  162. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp

    I can’t separate out the effects of Lucic+McDavid since the NST line tool seems not to be working at the moment,

    I thought that was just me and my browser but I guess not. Its been broken for weeks, if not longer.

  163. ArmchairGM says:

    jp: I can’t separate out the effects of Lucic+McDavid since the NST line tool seems not to be working at the moment, b

    I have posted the splits before, maybe if I get a few minutes later today I’ll see if I can dig them up. From memory Puljujarvi + McDavid scores about 2.00 p/60 but most of that time includes Lucic (offensive black hole) on the left side. If you remove Lucic from that line JP’s scoring rate goes up to about 2.70 P/60, which is better than Nylander, Pasrnak and Rantanen at the same age. This kid has potential.

  164. Ryan says:

    ArmchairGM: I have posted the splits before, maybe if I get a few minutes later today I’ll see if I can dig them up. From memory Puljujarvi + McDavid scores about 2.00 p/60 but most of that time includes Lucic (offensive black hole) on the left side. If you remove Lucic from that line JP’s scoring rate goes up to about 2.70 P/60, which is better than Nylander, Pasrnak and Rantanen at the same age. This kid has potential.

    Line tools provide GF ON/ 60 which is different than P/60.

    NST line tool has GF/60 of 3.88 w/o Lucic.

    3.32 for all 3 of them.

    Jesse without either is 1.57

    Jesse with Lucic no 97 is 1.29

  165. ArmchairGM says:

    Ryan: Line tools provide GF ON/ 60 which is different than P/60.

    NST line tool has GF/60 of 3.88 w/o Lucic.

    3.32 for all 3 of them.

    Jesse without either is 1.57

    Jesse with Lucic no 97 is 1.29

    Yeah, I had to work out the P/60 manually.

  166. jp says:

    ArmchairGM: I have posted the splits before, maybe if I get a few minutes later today I’ll see if I can dig them up. From memory Puljujarvi + McDavid scores about 2.00 p/60 but most of that time includes Lucic (offensive black hole) on the left side. If you remove Lucic from that line JP’s scoring rate goes up to about 2.70 P/60, which is better than Nylander, Pasrnak and Rantanen at the same age. This kid has potential.

    Yes, I remember that. Clearly less offence with Lucic present.

    What I don’t recall (and don’t think you showed) is once McDavid is removed from the equation, is Puljujarvi + Lucic much different from Puljujarvi without Lucic. Certainly every ON ice metric is far better with Lucic than without in the overall sample, even if P/60 is not.

  167. Day Milan Chart – moviewest.com says:

    […] Training Camp Hopeful No. 1: Tyler Benson – What has changed since his draft day? The two biggest items are health and high. […]

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