Can’t You Hear Me Knocking (on your door)

Jesse Puljujarvi’s agent opened the door a little yesterday. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves but it does give us a chance to discuss the player and why he’s so important to the Oilers.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Projecting Darnell Nurse’s next contract and possible trades
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A missing mom, aching feet and looking for Kevin Lowe: A week in the life of Oilers prospect Raphael Lavoie
  • New Lowetide: What to do when Connor McDavid rests: The Oilers’ ideal No. 2 line for 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Adding a scorer will be Ken Holland’s first big move as Oilers GM
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the Oilers’ depth chart looks like now and where they go from here
  • Jonathan Willis: How often do goalies like the Oilers’ Mike Smith rebound?
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster moves clear the way for Oilers top prospects Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto.
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers GM Ken Holland promises long-term rewards for an approach light on short-term improvements
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Trade market now most likely place for Oilers to find scoring winger
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘He comes as advertised’: Philip Broberg’s skating makes him development camp standout for Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers plan to skew younger on defence could open the door for Evan Bouchard, Dmitri Samorukov
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.
  • Lowetide: Are these Jesse Puljujarvi’s final days with the Edmonton Oilers?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ranking the Oilers’ trade assets from the high-priced diamonds to those needing fresh starts
  • Lowetide: Oilers GM Ken Holland is shopping for 20-goal scorers on a budget. What will he find?

How could the Oilers (and NHL scouts) be so wrong about Jesse Puljujarvi? Is it possible the Aho-Laine connection pushed JP along? That’s a reflection with legs, but no one could reasonably have predicted this career path.

How bad is it? Not bat at all, once you let the proper air out of JP’s offense. Let’s start with Puljujarvi as a player and his offensive ability from draft year through today.

2015-16 Sm-Liiga: 50, 13-15-28 (NHLE: 21.6)

2016-17 AHL: 39, 12-16-28 (NHLE: 27.6)

2017-18 NHL 65, 12-8-20 (NHLE: 25.2)

2018-19 NHL 45, 4-5-9 (NHLE: 16.4)

Offensively, the scouting reports may have been shy. However, he’s a big, strong winger, with a quick release. Great passing, transports the puck well, I thought his positioning was often on point. That’s a nice resume, even without the projected offense. JP is no longer a No. 4 overall pick, but he has value. Ideally, Dave Tippett gets a chance to unlock the player in 2019-20. He doesn’t riff well with the captain but the numbers are strong with McDavid.

HOLLAND’S BETS VERSUS CHIARELLI’S BETS

Do you remember when Peter Chiarelli would talk about his ’94’s? He had a large group of forwards, born in 1994, and needed at least two to cash as useful top-9 forwards. Here’s what each man did during the Chiarelli era:

Drake Caggiula 182, 32-29-61 .335

Jujhar Khaira 154, 15-27-42 .272

Anton Slepyshev 102, 10-13-23 .225

None of these men emerged as consistent top-9 options during Chiarelli’s time and only Khaira remains. It was not a successful endeavor. Holland has (potentially) a better group to bet on:

Jesse Puljujarvi 139, 17-20-37 .266

Kailer Yamamoto 26, 1-4-5 .192

Tyler Benson 68, 15-51-66 in Bakersfield

Kirill Maksimov 63, 40-39-79 with Niagara IceDogs (OHL)

Holland, and the Oilers, badly need one of these men to cash and soon. I think Benson and Puljujarvi (should he sign) will play in the NHL this season, not as certain about Yamamoto and Maksimov is probably in the mix a year from now.

Holland is betting on internal options for the skill lines, this much is true. Adding Puljujarvi to this group helps, but JP may be on the third line for more of his NHL career than anticipated on draft day.

What is Holland thinking? At this point I imagine he’ll attempt to find one or two reasonable scoring options (Sven Baertschi may shake loose) to the current group. Holland needs what Peter Chiarelli badly needed and never received: A substantial scoring option to replace Taylor Hall. Replacing Hall isn’t Holland’s fault, but it is his responsibility. No matter what happens to Jesse, he is not the answer to the Hall issue, and Holland hasn’t yet made an attempt to replace Hall’s production.

I believe, and have said, Holland has kicked that problem down the road to next summer. We don’t know how deep the team went on truly skilled free agents, only that he didn’t grab one and that (free agency) is his modus operandi. Holland is willing to sacrifice the 2020 playoffs in order to set up next season. I can’t say he’s wrong. In the meantime, Dave Tippett has one year to find useful soldiers. I sincerely hope Jesse Puljujarvi is one of them.

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150 Responses to "Can’t You Hear Me Knocking (on your door)"

  1. ArmchairGM says:

    Re-posted from the last thread:

    Just looking at Evolving Hockey’s database… sorted by WAR over the past 3 years combined, Zucker is 10th in the league at 8.7 – ahead of Crosby (8.6), Draisaitl (7.9) and Taylor Hall (7.7). Zucker had a relatively poor season last year and still posted 1.3 WAR and 7.3 GAR, similar numbers to Nugent-Hopkins who posted 1.4 WAR and 7.9 GAR. Is this guy really available?

    For reference, Ehlers is at 4.9 WAR and 26.7 GAR over the past 3 seasons.

    Ehlers
    16-17: 1.2 and 6.2
    17-18: 2.5 and 13.8
    18-19: 1.2 and 6.7

    Zucker
    16-17: 4.3 and 22.5
    17-18: 3.1 and 17.2
    18-19: 1.3 and 7.3

    Zucker’s worst season is still better than 2 of 3 Ehlers seasons, although age is on the Jets’ forward’s side. If acquisition cost was equal I’d be torn, but that is unlikely to be the case.

    Thoughts?

  2. condormcdavis says:

    Ehlers would go a long long way to solving the Hall replacement problem the host mentioned in his post today.

    Of course the Oilers can’t have nice things though. Be it shitty drafting and development or shittier contract and cap management.

    Truly pathetic

  3. itsaleaf says:

    I believe, and have said, Holland has kicked that problem down the road to next summer. We don’t know how deep the team went on truly skilled free agents, only that he didn’t grab one and that (free agency) is his modus operandi. Holland is willing to sacrifice the 2020 playoffs in order to set up next season. I can’t say he’s wrong. In the meantime, Dave Tippett has one year to find useful soldiers. I sincerely hope Jesse Puljujarvi is one of them.

    So why buyout Sekera? It made/makes no sense

  4. texmex says:

    itsaleaf: So why buyout Sekera? It made/makes no sense

    I think Kenny Holland is slowly learning how difficult it is to recruit players to come to Edmonton, or how much they Oilers have to pay above market value for players. He probably bought Rej out thinking he’d be able to get one of the talked about UFA’s to come to Oil Country. He probably thought he had Connolly/Gus/whoever signed sealed and delivered only to find out on July 1st (one day after the BO window closed) that not to be the case.

    Just my opinion.

  5. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Whats more likely this year?

    1) One of Pool, Lucic, Benson, Kailer being able to play on a skilled line and score 15+

    2) The net return of Pool or Lucic able to play on a skilled line and score 15+

    3) One of the other incumbents: Chiasson/Kassian/Jar score 15+

    4) One of Nygard/Jurco/Hass being able to play on a skilled line and score 15+

    5) A trade of D on roster and/or minors for a player able to play on skilled line and score 15+

    6) Spending Sam Gagner type $3MM for a player able to play on a skilled line and score 15+

    – At any point, Holland could make a trade (5) presumably to reach this goal

    – But I think he’s ready to let it bleed, hope for some combination of 1, 3, 4 to produce 2 15 goal scorers this year, and if he doesn’t he hasn’t sold the farm and/or does moves if and when

    – I bet if we have a healthy D, and a healthy Drai/McD/RNH, this year we will produce more 15+ goal scorers internally than the consensus, which seems to be none.

  6. russ99 says:

    itsaleaf,

    Buying out Sekera made a lot of sense.

    2 yrs/$5.5M left on his contract, age 33, coming off two major leg surgeries. Had he gotten hurt again, the contract would be unmovable and LTIR has to fit under the cap at the start of the season. Had he not, you have to wonder when the skating becomes an issue.

    This is where numbers alone don’t tell the whole story.

    We clear $3M this season and the next in cap space.

  7. ArmchairGM says:

    Minnesota would be a great landing place for Puljujarvi, just sayin.

    😉

  8. texmex says:

    Good or Bad?

    Mark Spector
    @SportsnetSpec
    ·
    6m
    Changes coming to Edmonton Oilers scouting staff.
    Former DET Dir. of Amateur Scouting Tyler Wright will join EDM staff, as will pro scout Archie Henderson. Former DET scout Jeff Finley will not join GM Ken Holland in EDM.

  9. defmn says:

    https://www.tsn.ca/loui-eriksson-s-agent-j-p-barry-says-they-re-discussing-options-with-vancouver-canucks-1.1335901

    Now it is Eriksson’s agent walking back comments made. The comment about how this could be resolved in the next few weeks with a trade to a team with a similar player caught my eye.

    ///Barry said Wednesday that he believed Eriksson’s comments were overblown, adding “maybe they weren’t translating the Swedish that well.” He admitted, however, that both sides have looked into trade options for the Swedish winger.

    “It’s gone past any kind of request,” Barry said. “I think we’re all just working together to look for a solution, really, is what we’ve been doing. It’s not an easy thing. I think any kind of transaction would have to involve a player on another team in similar situation and we all know that, so we’ve all looked around the league and this could be the time of year… those changes could still happen over the next several weeks.”///

  10. Dustylegnd says:

    itsaleaf:
    I believe, and have said, Holland has kicked that problem down the road to next summer. We don’t know how deep the team went on truly skilled free agents, only that he didn’t grab one and that (free agency) is his modus operandi. Holland is willing to sacrifice the 2020 playoffs in order to set up next season. I can’t say he’s wrong. In the meantime, Dave Tippett has one year to find useful soldiers. I sincerely hope Jesse Puljujarvi is one of them.

    So why buyout Sekera?It made/makes no sense

    They must believe he is truly washed as a top 4 option and wanted to free up space for young affordable d men

  11. Dustylegnd says:

    texmex:
    Good or Bad?

    Mark Spector
    @SportsnetSpec
    ·
    6m
    Changes coming to Edmonton Oilers scouting staff.
    Former DET Dir. of Amateur Scouting Tyler Wright will join EDM staff, as will pro scout Archie Henderson. Former DET scout Jeff Finley will not join GM Ken Holland in EDM.

    Archie Henderson is a relic left over form the Slap Shot days, he is not a bright individual I have met him on several occasions when he was doing amateur scouting for Washington etc etc etc…ther is nothing progressive or innovative about Archie….he is the brother of Donnie Henderson, the Linesman that got cross checked from behind by Wideman

    The fact that Tyler Wright is Joining the club may not bode well for Bobby Green…which is a positive in my mind

  12. jtblack says:

    “I believe, and have said, Holland has kicked that problem down the road to next summer.”

    I agree. Believe he looked at all the crap contracts and knows the risk /reward iss not there this year.

    Holland said he wants to build an Annual contender. As painful as waiting another year is, it’s the right thing to do.

    In Ken we Trust

  13. Bag of Pucks says:

    russ99:
    itsaleaf,

    Buying out Sekera made a lot of sense.

    2 yrs/$5.5M left on his contract, age 33, coming off two major leg surgeries. Had he gotten hurt again, the contract would be unmovable and LTIR has to fit under the cap at the start of the season.Had he not, you have to wonder when the skating becomes an issue.

    This is where numbers alone don’t tell the whole story.

    We clear $3M this season and the next in cap space.

    If Sekera was a used car, Oilers fans sell it without hesitation.

    But he’s an aging athlete and people love a comeback story.

    As abused as this fanbase has been, it’s still chock full of wishful optimism. Rej may stay healthy this season but it’s not something you bet the house on and that’s kinda what $5.5 per is.

    I actually like the GM having some cap room for in season moves, as heretical as that may sound.

  14. Jethro Tull says:

    defmn,

    I love that in this day and age, the very English trait of unconscious racism that manifests itself by “don’t listen to him, he’s foreign and therefore cannot speak our language” still exists although English has been the Lingua Franca (or Demotic post Norman Anglo-Saxon) of most of the world for centuries. Viva la difference!

  15. jtblack says:

    texmex:
    Good or Bad?

    Mark Spector
    @SportsnetSpec
    ·
    6m
    Changes coming to Edmonton Oilers scouting staff.
    Former DET Dir. of Amateur Scouting Tyler Wright will join EDM staff, as will pro scout Archie Henderson. Former DET scout Jeff Finley will not join GM Ken Holland in EDM.

    Another GM bringing in his own ppl. Thats why every GM change sets the clock back 18 months or so. By the time Ken gets the Red awine Summit out, gets his ppl in and cleans up the roster, 18 months has gone by.

    2020 opening night will look Miles different from 2019 opening night.

  16. Bag of Pucks says:

    texmex: I think Kenny Holland is slowly learning how difficult it is to recruit players to come to Edmonton, or how much they Oilers have to pay above market value for players. He probably bought Rej out thinking he’d be able to get one of the talked about UFA’s to come to Oil Country. He probably thought he had Connolly/Gus/whoever signed sealed and delivered only to find out on July 1st (one day after the BO window closed) that not to be the case.

    Just my opinion.

    So you’re saying Ken is a slow learner. 😏

  17. jtblack says:

    Finland Dominates World Juniors in 2015 / 2016.

    4 star players Idenfied.

    RANTANEN
    LAINE
    JP
    AHO

    We get JP. #BecauseOilers

  18. McSorley33 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    – I bet if we have a healthy D, and a healthy Drai/McD/RNH, this year we will produce more 15+ goal scorers internally than the consensus, which seems to be none.
    ****************************************************************************
    Didn’t we have that last year?

    Klefbom missed some time but every team has injuries. Klefbom still
    played 3/4 of the season.

    Nurse played the full 82. So did Larsson.

    Russell played 72.

    McDavid 78
    RNH – 82
    Drai – 82

    Sounds like you are betting for us just to be better…just because.

  19. Melman says:

    jtblack,

    And then drag him over before he’s ready, play him all over hell’s half acre and wait a year before getting him a translator. Sure some of it is on JP, but how many 18 year olds have you met that were dialled in all by their lonesome. #becauseoilers #stupidisasstupiddoes

    Let’s hope Kenny slow playing this business with him calms everyone down and the leaders in the dressing room help bridge whatever gap may be there. Kid has reached the point though where it’s time to man up

  20. McSorley33 says:

    texmex,

    Good or Bad?

    Mark Spector
    @SportsnetSpec
    ·
    6m
    Changes coming to Edmonton Oilers scouting staff.
    Former DET Dir. of Amateur Scouting Tyler Wright will join EDM staff, as will pro scout Archie Henderson. Former DET scout Jeff Finley will not join GM Ken Holland in EDM.
    ******************************************************************************************
    If it means Scotty Howson is no longer employed with the Oilers then I am for it….

  21. ArmchairGM says:

    Here’s an interesting factoid: Josh Currie was the 5th best producer on the Oilers roster last year while Joseph Gambardella was 7th.

    http://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20182019&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=y&team=EDM&pos=S&loc=B&toi=100&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

    Also, Currie was 2nd in GAR/60, Gambardella 4th. Third and 5th in WAR/60, respectively.

    Why aren’t we even mentioning these names for possible roster spots? Is it that we’re so enamoured with the shiny new European signings that we aren’t looking at the potential already on the 50-man?

  22. tileguy says:

    One of the reasons I am hard of hearing is because of that 5 minute jam by the Stones.
    I wonder if Rattie has an escape clause if he finds himself lighting up the K, but dosen’t matter because Hitch will have Kens ear.

  23. McSorley33 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    As abused as this fanbase has been, it’s still chock full of wishful optimism. Rej may stay healthy this season but it’s not something you bet the house on and that’s kinda what $5.5 per is.

    I actually like the GM having some cap room for in season moves, as heretical as that may sound.
    **************************************************************************************************************
    I do to….too bad Holland didn’t do that.

    Took from Sekera’s pocket and gave to Chaser.

    Maybe Kenny values cap space next year?

  24. ArmchairGM says:

    defmn:
    https://www.tsn.ca/loui-eriksson-s-agent-j-p-barry-says-they-re-discussing-options-with-vancouver-canucks-1.1335901

    Now it is Eriksson’s agent walking back comments made. The comment about how this could be resolved in the next few weeks with a trade to a team with a similar player caught my eye.

    ///Barry said Wednesday that he believed Eriksson’s comments were overblown, adding “maybe they weren’t translating the Swedish that well.” He admitted, however, that both sides have looked into trade options for the Swedish winger.

    “It’s gone past any kind of request,” Barry said. “I think we’re all just working together to look for a solution, really, is what we’ve been doing. It’s not an easy thing. I think any kind of transaction would have to involve a player on another team in similar situation and we all know that, so we’ve all looked around the league and this could be the time of year… those changes could still happen over the next several weeks.”///

    Very interesting. I wonder when his $4M bonus vests this summer?

  25. jtblack says:

    McSorley33:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    – I bet if we have a healthy D, and a healthy Drai/McD/RNH, this year we will produce more 15+ goal scorers internally than the consensus, which seems to be none.
    ****************************************************************************
    Didn’t we have that last year?

    Klefbom missed some time but every team has injuries. Klefbom still
    played 3/4 of the season.

    Nurse played the full 82. So did Larsson.

    Russell played 72.

    McDavid78
    RNH – 82
    Drai – 82

    Sounds like you are betting for us just to be better…just because.

    +1.

    Team needs more than good health

  26. Lowetide says:

    McSorley33:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    – I bet if we have a healthy D, and a healthy Drai/McD/RNH, this year we will produce more 15+ goal scorers internally than the consensus, which seems to be none.
    ****************************************************************************
    Didn’t we have that last year?

    Klefbom missed some time but every team has injuries. Klefbom still
    played 3/4 of the season.

    Nurse played the full 82. So did Larsson.

    Russell played 72.

    McDavid78
    RNH – 82
    Drai – 82

    Sounds like you are betting for us just to be better…just because.

    When Klefbom and Russell were injured, the Oilers were in a very good spot. Lack of depth hurt them in a big way.

  27. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    McSorley33:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    – I bet if we have a healthy D, and a healthy Drai/McD/RNH, this year we will produce more 15+ goal scorers internally than the consensus, which seems to be none.
    ****************************************************************************
    Didn’t we have that last year?

    Klefbom missed some time but every team has injuries. Klefbom still
    played 3/4 of the season.

    Nurse played the full 82. So did Larsson.

    Russell played 72.

    McDavid78
    RNH – 82
    Drai – 82

    Sounds like you are betting for us just to be better…just because.

    – He’s betting on the replacement(s) for Sek being healthy and more effective than Sek was last year (and was going to be this year)

    – And those 56 games he missed (plus not really being effective for the whole season) played by D > Wideman, Gravel, Garrison,Petro, Manning, rookie Jones, etc

    – He’s betting that some combo of Jones/Bear/Laggesson/Bouchard/Perrsson etc will play a more uptempo pace that will create more transition and D…

    – I’m not sure this will work, but give me odds I take that bet. If it does he and coach will be smart, if it doesn’t he has the rest of season and next off-season to improve his “bets”

    * If whoever are our top-5 D on paper this year miss again 90 games + (and are ineffective when they return from missed games), then we will have problems again. We don’t have the depth to sustain significant lost games from our D: hope the draft and develops do a better job this year when games are missed and opportunities present themselves

  28. jtblack says:

    12 Oilers become UFA or RFA after this season.

    That is what Ken is waiting for ..

  29. Jethro Tull says:

    How on this green earth is a kid like JP is so important to this team? A team with the world’s best player on it?

    Ken is turning the Oilers into the early 00’s Wings. With no Lidstrom or Hasek. Not even an Osgood.

    When this doesn’t work, (and reality check, folks; the odds aren’t good) what then? The NEXT old school GM and coach, because this team needs a steady hand that knows hockey, right?

    What galls me most is the missed opportunity to be if not ahead of the curve, at least following it; GM that understands where the game is going with current cap acumen and a coach that at least has heard of some of the TV shows these pesky kids are all watching these days.

    It seems that the longer a GM takes to decide something the more people attribute some kind of measured, logical process was attached to the decision; must be good, right? He took his time, must have been weighing options.

    This couldn’t be more wrong. It highlights lack of understanding of the game today.

    I was ripped here when I said Dubas did well when he paid a 1st to get rid of Marlow. The rest of the shoe shop dropped on deadline day. Because he thought ” is Marleau and a 1st worth more than Mitch Marner?” The cap era forces decisions such as these upon them. Those that understand this will thrive. Those that don’t will think that Lucic and JP and a 1st are worth more than a decent goalie and a bona fide scorer for McDavid and Andrej Sekera.

    Which does Ken value more, do you think?

  30. jtblack says:

    COL & VAN have both Improved quite a bit this off season.

    Love what COL is building. MAKAR GIRAD JOST BYRAM (if he makes team) will all be on ELC’s this yr.

    MACKINNON – 23
    RANTANEN – 22
    GIRARD – 21
    JOST – 21
    MAKAR – 20
    BYRAM – 18

    Add LANDESKOG, BURAKOVSKY, KADRI, DONSKOI, BELLMAERE, ETC ETC

  31. Reja says:

    McSorley33:
    Bag of Pucks,

    As abused as this fanbase has been, it’s still chock full of wishful optimism. Rej may stay healthy this season but it’s not something you bet the house on and that’s kinda what $5.5 per is.

    I actually like the GM having some cap room for in season moves, as heretical as that may sound.
    **************************************************************************************************************
    I do to….too bad Holland didn’t do that.

    Took from Sekera’s pocket and gave to Chaser.

    Maybe Kenny values cap space next year?

    How many goals does Chase need to cover his big money signing?

  32. OriginalPouzar says:

    The verbal from Jesse’s agent yesterday contradicts his previous verbal and was essentially semantics.

    No, he didn’t say that Jesse would definitely go to Europe if the Oilers didn’t trade him but he said he wouldn’t play for the Oilers this year and Europe was an option for him – essentially the same thing.

    No he didn’t “demand a trade” but he did say that there isn’t a fit in Edmonton and the change in management and coaching isn’t enough and he wouldn’t play for the Oilers – same thing.

    Was it an actual softening yesterday or posturing?

    I would still love for Jesse to sign at $1.25M and come to camp ready to play and earn a top 9 job and to work under Tippett with consistent 5 on 5 minutes and linemates.

    Go Jesse!

  33. ArmchairGM says:

    Reja: How many goals does Chase need to cover his big money signing?

    15-20, as per Holland.

  34. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jesse’s offence in the AHL as an 18 year old was actually very very good – he was 18, playing in a very good league as the youngest player in the league. He wasn’t quite PPG but that is super offence.

    He regressed over the years, likely due to playing all over the place, barely playing, etc.

    His four games in the AHL last year as a 20 year old were dominant. 17 shots in those 4 games – 4 points and a fight. Lets not forget, he’s younger than Tyler Benson and, if he played major junior, this past year would have been his first year of AHL eligibility, like Benson.

    There is time for this prospect – AHL time would be great but its a non-option. He has NHL skills and I think can still become a very good middle six, if not top 6, player – he needs to play in the NHL though and he should do so with the Oilers.

  35. GMB3 says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Re-posted from the last thread:

    Just looking at Evolving Hockey’s database… sorted by WAR over the past 3 years combined, Zucker is 10th in the league at 8.7 – ahead of Crosby (8.6), Draisaitl (7.9) and Taylor Hall (7.7). Zucker had a relatively poor season last year and still posted 1.3 WAR and 7.3 GAR, similar numbers to Nugent-Hopkins who posted 1.4 WAR and 7.9 GAR. Is this guy really available?

    For reference, Ehlers is at 4.9 WAR and 26.7 GAR over the past 3 seasons.

    Ehlers
    16-17: 1.2 and 6.2
    17-18: 2.5 and 13.8
    18-19: 1.2 and 6.7

    Zucker
    16-17: 4.3 and 22.5
    17-18: 3.1 and 17.2
    18-19: 1.3 and 7.3

    Zucker’s worst season is still better than 2 of 3 Ehlers seasons, although age is on the Jets’ forward’s side. If acquisition cost was equal I’d be torn, but that is unlikely to be the case.

    Thoughts?

    I thought you didn’t like Zucker as a target

  36. tileguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Great alternate version

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXd6O321Ruc

    Sorry LT, it’s missing that sweet sweet sax.

  37. Nit64 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The verbal from Jesse’s agent yesterday contradicts his previous verbal and was essentially semantics.

    No, he didn’t say that Jesse would definitely go to Europe if the Oilers didn’t trade him but he said he wouldn’t play for the Oilers this year and Europe was an option for him – essentially the same thing.

    No he didn’t “demand a trade” but he did say that there isn’t a fit in Edmonton and the change in management and coaching isn’t enough and he wouldn’t play for the Oilers – same thing.

    Was it an actual softening yesterday or posturing?

    I would still love for Jesse to sign at $1.25M and come to camp ready to play and earn a top 9 job and to work under Tippett with consistent 5 on 5 minutes and linemates.

    Go Jesse!

    It’s been 24 hours, so here’s one of the paragraphs from the Staples article.

    “Asked about giving it a go with new Oilers GM Ken Holland in charge, Lehto said, “Well, that’s something that really kind of makes Jesse and really myself think that he should try and go back. But at the same time it’s a lot like a confidence issue here. If he goes back and all of a sudden things don’t really work out, you know, are we then in the same low point again? Which is not going to help either Oilers nor Jesse. And then what’s going to happen after that? Then for sure maybe we lose a player who definitely is an NHLer.”

    Yeah. We really should think about about giving Holland and Tippet a shot, but way too risky to entertain.

    Got lots of time for Jesse, but the agent can have Bart or Homer’s seat on that Rocket to the Sun.

  38. DBO says:

    I’m confused why everyone seems perplexed that Jesse wants out. It’s been made clear. He is not liked in the room, or he doesn’t like the guys in the room. No coach or manager change fixes the key guys. And if you don’t get along with the key guys, and they make you feel like you hate coming to the rink everyday, why would you come back?

    New age of people. They don’t like work, they quit. Not the old days of put your head down, be happy you have a job and grind it out. It’s a different kind of athlete as well, where how they feel means as much as how they play.

    So he hates the room. He’s just not that into you…… accept it. Move him when it benefits you, no rush there. But everyone should stop pining for him to want to come back. he won’t. it’s over. move on.

  39. Bag of Pucks says:

    DBO,

    Teams will put up with a high maintenance player if the elite production is there.

    Unlike Yakupov, will Jesse figure this out before he’s jettisoned out of the league altogether?

    Ken Holland should bring in Tomas Holmstrom to talk to this kid about what it takes to play in the NHL.

  40. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Holland has done a great job so far the only thing I could criticize him for is not getting creative on a trade yet. Buying out Sekera was a great move. Why would we keep a broken down 5.5 mill cap hit who is blocking young D who are probably better than him at this point. Caleb jones is probably a better player than Sekera today and will only improve every game. The cap room from the buyout also gives the Oilers a few options with bargain free agents close to camp.

  41. Side says:

    DBO:
    I’m confused why everyone seems perplexed that Jesse wants out. It’s been made clear. He is not liked in the room, or he doesn’t like the guys in the room. No coach or manager change fixes the key guys. And if you don’t get along with the key guys, and they make you feel like you hate coming to the rink everyday, why would you come back?

    New age of people. They don’t like work, they quit. Not the old days of put your head down, be happy you have a job and grind it out. It’s a different kind of athlete as well, where how they feel means as much as how they play.

    So he hates the room. He’s just not that into you…… accept it. Move him when it benefits you, no rush there. But everyone should stop pining for him to want to come back. he won’t. it’s over. move on.

    Sorry but your statement kind of contradicts itself

    “It’s been made clear” followed by “Either he doesn’t like the guys or the guys don’t like him”. Doesn’t make it seem clear at all.

    Whenever the agent talks about the Oilers, it’s largely about Oilers management and how they handle Jesse. None of it points to Jesse being disliked, or hating the dressing room.

    Especially when the agent himself is now saying

    ““Asked about giving it a go with new Oilers GM Ken Holland in charge, Lehto said, “Well, that’s something that really kind of makes Jesse and really myself think that he should try and go back. But at the same time it’s a lot like a confidence issue here. ”

    You have the St. Louis Blues, a team last year where teammates literally broke into a fight on ice at practice and they ended up winning the Stanley Cup.

    To me it seems like the agent is more concerned about Jesse getting jerked around the organization, again. Definitely not “clear” to me that this issue lies solely in the dressing room.

  42. bwar says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: Kinger

    I feel like whatever player plays the majority of the season with McDavid and Draisaitl will put up 15 goals. I’m guessing that player comes from the incumbents. Kassian played a little over a quarter of his ice time last year with McDavid and Kassian, 15g. Same story with Chiasson, 22g. No idea who lands the gig this season but I feel like damn near anyone who can skate would get 30g alongside McDavid/Draisaitl over a full season.

  43. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Here’s an interesting factoid: Josh Currie was the 5th best producer on the Oilers roster last year while Joseph Gambardella was 7th.

    http://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20182019&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=y&team=EDM&pos=S&loc=B&toi=100&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

    Also, Currie was 2nd in GAR/60, Gambardella 4th. Third and 5th in WAR/60, respectively.

    Why aren’t we even mentioning these names for possible roster spots? Is it that we’re so enamoured with the shiny new European signings that we aren’t looking at the potential already on the 50-man?

    I would be in favor of some combination of a Benson/Marody/Currie/Gambardella line. Rookies, but rookies that know each other well and will at least all be rowing in the same direction. Use them in a hybrid 3rd/4th line and see what they can do. Guarantee they will bring everything they have every night, no lack of effort issues there. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work but I think it is worth a try. They could surprise. And this is the year to try it for an extended stretch. It’s not as if this team is built to make a run deep into the playoffs.

  44. pts2pndr says:

    McSorley33:
    Kinger_Oil.redux,

    – I bet if we have a healthy D, and a healthy Drai/McD/RNH, this year we will produce more 15+ goal scorers internally than the consensus, which seems to be none.
    ****************************************************************************
    Didn’t we have that last year?

    Klefbom missed some time but every team has injuries. Klefbom still
    played 3/4 of the season.

    Nurse played the full 82. So did Larsson.

    Russell played 72.

    McDavid78
    RNH – 82
    Drai – 82

    Sounds like you are betting for us just to be better…just because.

    You forgot the Larson issue family and back. Any right D health issues are problematic. The maturation of Nurse and the addition of a number of young D pushing speaks to a much higher quality D complete with depth than last year.

  45. Jordan says:

    DBO:
    I’m confused why everyone seems perplexed that Jesse wants out. It’s been made clear. He is not liked in the room, or he doesn’t like the guys in the room. No coach or manager change fixes the key guys. And if you don’t get along with the key guys, and they make you feel like you hate coming to the rink everyday, why would you come back?

    New age of people. They don’t like work, they quit. Not the old days of put your head down, be happy you have a job and grind it out. It’s a different kind of athlete as well, where how they feel means as much as how they play.

    So he hates the room. He’s just not that into you…… accept it. Move him when it benefits you, no rush there. But everyone should stop pining for him to want to come back. he won’t. it’s over. move on.

    But…But…But… we were so good together. He was a natural fit on McDavid’s wing. He could skate, and score, and forecheck and pass. We were going to win cups together, and get married, and have children, and buy a house with a little white picket fence and a big yard for the kids and dogs to play in.

    Why won’t he like us? Is there something wrong with us? Are we too fat? Did we put out too early? Or wait too long? Are we not interesting enough? Do we need a tatoo? Or a drug problem? Or different clothes? Or different music?

    Oh, if only we knew what he didn’t like, we could change it and then he’d like us!

  46. Reja says:

    ArmchairGM: 15-20, as per Holland.

    If Chase can pot 15-20 goals at 2.6 percent of the cap sounds like a bargain. I know Chase isn’t ideal but he’s well liked want’s to be here and it’s only 2 years.

  47. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    How on this green earth is a kid like JP is so important to this team? A team with the world’s best player on it?

    Ken is turning the Oilers into the early 00’s Wings. With no Lidstrom or Hasek. Not even an Osgood.

    When this doesn’t work, (and reality check, folks; the odds aren’t good) what then? The NEXT old school GM and coach, because this team needs a steady hand that knows hockey, right?

    What galls me most is the missed opportunity to be if not ahead of the curve, at least following it; GM that understands where the game is going with current cap acumen and a coach that at least has heard of some of the TV shows these pesky kids are all watching these days.

    It seems that the longer a GM takes to decide something the more people attribute some kind of measured, logical process was attached to the decision; must be good, right? He took his time, must have been weighing options.

    This couldn’t be more wrong. It highlights lack of understanding of the game today.

    I was ripped here when I said Dubas did well when he paid a 1st to get rid of Marlow. The rest of the shoe shop dropped on deadline day. Because he thought ” is Marleau and a 1st worth more than Mitch Marner?” The cap era forces decisions such as these upon them. Those that understand this will thrive. Those that don’t will think that Lucic and JP and a 1st are worth more than a decent goalie and a bona fide scorer for McDavid and Andrej Sekera.

    Which does Ken value more, do you think?

    Holland has been on the job for two months and you’re making pronouncements on his performance. I’m certainly not thrilled so far and I’ll be less than impressed if he fails to add one good player to this lineup. But I think it’s foolish to judge someone’s performance after two months. How can you possibly say he is turning the team into the 00’s Wings? He’s been on the job for two months. There’s miles of road ahead and lots of time before the season starts. There are still multiple teams out there in cap hell. They have to address this before the season starts. There’s plenty of time to make changes. Will Holland capitalize on this? Maybe not. But I’m not judging him two months into his job.

  48. pts2pndr says:

    Jethro Tull:
    defmn,

    I love that in this day and age, the very English trait of unconscious racism that manifests itself by “don’t listen to him, he’s foreign and therefore cannot speak our language” still exists although English has been the Lingua Franca (or Demotic post Norman Anglo-Saxon) of most of the world for centuries. Viva la difference!

    German was actually the language of finance for a extended period of time in the interim. It would be more correct to use British instead of English as in British Empire. The world power of any time period takes a kicking after their empires fall.

  49. blainer says:

    IF Jesse comes back this year I feel certain it will be a major mistake. I have read there are many calls coming into Holland on this player. IF this is true it’s best just to wait for the right trade to come along.

    Having him return and have yet another shitty season will eliminate any value Jesse may have today. We absolutely have to move on from this player and couldn’t agree more that it’s just extremely risky to have him come back to what seems to be a toxic work environment for him.

    Having said all this though… if the best return for this player is a 2nd or 3rd rounder than that’s a risk I would be willing to take …player’s trade request be damned. If this is all Holland is getting and he decides JP has to come back I think as a fan I would like to know how bad those offers were.

    Man this whole situation is Yak all over again. This is why I hope they find a landing spot for him this offseason.

    JP, a lottery protected first in a deep draft, and a top D prospect for a scoring winger who can also PK.. also add in a small salary dump to help out if possible ..That is what I would like to see. They have to get it right though.. None of this trading that first for Griffin Reinhart Bull shit. I want an established player on a decent contract. I am prepared though for this not to happen as a new GM just doesn’t feel the heat yet.

    I know it’s early but based on what I’ve seen from this new GM so far I am not impressed as he missed out on some decent trades that were made that he could have been in on.. Waiting yet another year only to find out we are still in this shitty situation will be another year wasted with CMD and Drai. We have to make a move and it HAS to be a trade we F***king win.

    This is all JMO but it’s what I would be doing .. after I consulted with everyone on the blog anonymously of course..lol..

  50. Jethro Tull says:

    JimmyV1965,

    Of anyone has a large sample size of their body of work, it’s Ken Holland.

    It’s not his fault. He’s getting scouts that used to work for him. It’s the only way he knows how to build a team. And it worked. 20 years ago. Same with Hitchcock hire. See with Tippett hire.

    My general rub is this: This team knows only one answer to any question. It’s “get hockey men on it.” Only their definition of Hockey Men is hugely flawed.

    They want another Sather as they equate him to success. He ended up being a very stable GM. But he didn’t start out that way. He started by realizing the game was changing and could, in fact, be changed. And he wanted in. He had innovation in spades. Fearlessness in bounds. What the Oilers need is someone with the ideals and ideas of a young Sather.

    I don’t need to wait to know the knocking from my engine isn’t a good thing. Maybe it’ll go away…….maybe not.

    Take a critical look at the work done so far. I mean, really assess it as unbiased as you can. And ask what would you do?. I have and at no point did I think “buy out Sekera.” Particularly after he said unequivocally he wanted prospects to over ripen. Verbal, meet action.

    Until the organization hires people that have different thought processes than the people doing the hiring, then This is us. Now and forever.

  51. ArmchairGM says:

    Reja: If Chase can pot 15-20 goals at 2.6 percent of the cap sounds like a bargain. I know Chase isn’t ideal but he’s well liked want’s to be here andit’s only 2 years.

    If he can. If he can.

  52. Jethro Tull says:

    pts2pndr: German was actually the language of finance for a extended period of time in the interim. It would be more correct to use British instead of English as in British Empire. The world power of any time period takes a kicking after their empires fall.

    A form of German hasn’t been prevalent sine the Hanseatic era. Then the Royal Navy choked and controlled world trade until at least the beginnings of a formal U.S Navy. English is very much a universal language. But this is bad, as Brits are very lazy at learning other languages. But it’s a very British thing to assume others don’t speak English well enough to make themselves understood. I know the agent isn’t British, but I found it very glib and British like to blame the old “lost in translation” patois.

  53. bwar says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: I would be in favor of some combination of a Benson/Marody/Currie/Gambardella line. Rookies, but rookies that know each other well and will at least all be rowing in the same direction. Use them in a hybrid 3rd/4th line and see what they can do. Guarantee they will bring everything they have every night, no lack of effort issues there. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work but I think it is worth a try. They could surprise. And this is the year to try it for an extended stretch. It’s not as if this team is built to make a run deep into the playoffs.

    Benson-Marody-Currie were great last year and it would be interesting to see them thrown into NHL action together. Could they hang as a third line in the NHL? Maybe and them earning a spot pushes out three players who were anchors last season. I’m hoping the Bakersfield crew proves they are ready for the NHL this year.

  54. ArmchairGM says:

    GMB3: I thought you didn’t like Zucker as a target

    His season shows serious decline. The question is where you think that’s heading over the next 4 years. If the cost is JP + 2020 2nd do you pull the trigger? I think so. Ehlers certainly won’t be available for that kind of asset cost.

  55. Ribs says:

    It seems appropriate that the Oilers would hire a former failed draft pick to help them draft their future players. Hopefully Wright is better equipped than the past Oilers draft gurus that selected him 12th overall!
    ______

    I really liked Baertschi when he was being drafted. I fear the concussions may have derailed him for good, though. It’s a shame.

  56. ArmchairGM says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: I would be in favor of some combination of a Benson/Marody/Currie/Gambardella line. Rookies, but rookies that know each other well and will at least all be rowing in the same direction. Use them in a hybrid 3rd/4th line and see what they can do. Guarantee they will bring everything they have every night, no lack of effort issues there. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work but I think it is worth a try. They could surprise. And this is the year to try it for an extended stretch. It’s not as if this team is built to make a run deep into the playoffs.

    It’s really no more risky than a potential Nygard – Haas – Jurco line, and probably a lot less.

    We certainly have lots of options for the 4th line, its questionable whether Tippett can put together a legit 2nd and 3rd line though.

  57. GMB3 says:

    ArmchairGM: His season shows serious decline. The question is where you think that’s heading over the next 4 years. If the cost is JP + 2020 2nd do you pull the trigger? I think so. Ehlers certainly won’t be available for that kind of asset cost.

    Underlying metrics were still good though. Prime candidate for a bounce back season. I feel like Fenton thinks they are still trying to win this year so it probably needs to be a better asset out. Would have been better to trade for him prior to free agency.. would have given Minny more cap to work with if they were looking for an immediate replacement.

    I would pull the trigger on that deal though, and if we are out of the hunt by the deadline try and recoup that 2nd in a trade of Russell (or whomever).

    I also get the feeling Holland kicked some tires on him and he may not have been willing to go to Edmonton as I do believe he has some trade protection.

    It’s too bad though because some form of Drai-Nuge, Zucker-CMD looks like the basis of two good pairs if you squint.

  58. GMB3 says:

    bwar: Benson-Marody-Currie were great last year and it would be interesting to see them thrown into NHL action together.Could they hang as a third line in the NHL?Maybe and them earning a spot pushes out three players who were anchors last season.I’m hoping the Bakersfield crew proves they are ready for the NHL this year.

    Might need one guy with a bit more speed on that line, but I don’t hate the idea. I feel like the chaos + excitement of the guys making a “kid” line makes the sum greater than its parts.

  59. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    JimmyV1965,

    Of anyone has a large sample size of their body of work, it’s Ken Holland.

    It’s not his fault. He’s getting scouts that used to work for him. It’s the only way he knows how to build a team. And it worked. 20 years ago. Same with Hitchcock hire. See with Tippett hire.

    My general rub is this: This team knows only one answer to any question. It’s “get hockey men on it.” Only their definition of Hockey Men is hugely flawed.

    They want another Sather as they equate him to success. He ended up being a very stable GM. But he didn’t start out that way. He started by realizing the game was changing and could, in fact, be changed. And he wanted in. He had innovation in spades. Fearlessness in bounds. What the Oilers need is someone with the ideals and ideas of a young Sather.

    I don’t need to wait to know the knocking from my engine isn’t a good thing. Maybe it’ll go away…….maybe not.

    Take a critical look at the work done so far. I mean, really assess it as unbiased as you can. And ask what would you do?. I have and at no point did I think “buy out Sekera.” Particularly after he said unequivocally he wanted prospects to over ripen. Verbal, meet action.

    Until the organization hires people that have different thought processes than the people doing the hiring, then This is us. Now and forever.

    I debated if I should respond to this because clearly nothing will change your mind. You obviously didn’t like the Holland hiring and you still don’t. That’s fine. I didn’t like the hiring either. I choose to reserve judgement. You’ve made up your mind and cite the Sekera buyout as some huge red flag. Really weak IMO. I’ve left my bias at the door. I don’t think you have. This is not an endorsement of Holland. I’ll wait before making pronouncements.

  60. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    GMB3,

    JJ would fit on that line nicely, he could be the LC and one of the AHL C could handle RC/RW duties. He’d add some size, speed and grit while the other two focused on offence.

    Though, personally speaking, I’d leave the line intact in the AHL to start the year and look to them for call-ups when the first injuries and slumps hit the team.

  61. Jethro Tull says:

    JimmyV1965,

    The question is: How long will you wait?

    Another is: What does Chia, uh, I mean Holland have to show you before you have to really squint before you see the blurry outline of his “Plan”?

    A bunch of people who follow the team as a hobby can, for the most part, collectively correctly identify this team’s needs. The actual team can’t.

    Whether I like the hire is immaterial. It’s done, and I accept that. Acceptance is the first part of the process of positive change. It doesn’t, however, make my points any less pertinent. I don’t want Holland to fail; quite the opposite. But I look at probabilities and ask myself, “what is the probability Ken can right this ship in the current NHL?”

    Wrong hire for the wrong reasons.

  62. Reja says:

    ArmchairGM: If hecan. If he can.

    ArmchairGM: If he can. If he can.

    If Chase can play up and down the lineup when needed without drama, park Connor and Leon’s vehicles pre game, change the water bottles religiously between periods, all the while scoring 19 goals with 2 taken away upon further review will he be a bargain.

  63. Rube Foster says:

    Jethro Tull: The cap era forces decisions such as these upon them. Those that understand this will thrive. Those that don’t will think that Lucic and JP and a 1st are worth more than a decent goalie and a bona fide scorer for McDavid and Andrej Sekera.

    Which does Ken value more, do you think?

    I am all for building a bridge to reconciliation with Jesse Puljujarvi. I believe there is a bonafide NHL player with the speed, size and skill to help the Oilers win games in the new NHL.

    Pulujarvi is a far better bet, at a far better price point to be a contributor to a successful season for the Edmonton Oilers than Milan Lucic.

    With that said, this is an interesting spin and perspective on the conversation we’ve all been having since the Sekera buyout.

    I hope that these are the type of questions that Holland and his team are asking themselves. For far too long the Oilers Management have been playing Checkers in a League where the Chess players prevail.

  64. Harpers Hair says:

    ArmchairGM: Very interesting. I wonder when his $4M bonus vests this summer?

    July 15

  65. Lowetide says:

    Anyone else having twitter issues?

  66. RISTOOOOO SILTANEN!!!! says:

    Lowetide:
    Anyone else having twitter issues?

    I use Tweetbot and have been getting some “internal error” messages.

  67. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Lowetide:
    Anyone else having twitter issues?

    Yep. Seems to be down.

  68. itsaleaf says:

    Lowetide,

    Yes

  69. Rube Foster says:

    Side: Sorry but your statement kind of contradicts itself

    “It’s been made clear” followed by“Either he doesn’t like the guys or the guys don’t like him”.Doesn’t make it seem clear at all.

    Whenever the agent talks about the Oilers, it’s largely about Oilers management and how they handle Jesse. None of it points to Jesse being disliked, or hating the dressing room.

    Especially when the agent himself is now saying

    ““Asked about giving it a go with new Oilers GM Ken Holland in charge, Lehto said, “Well, that’s something that really kind of makes Jesse and really myself think that he should try and go back. But at the same time it’s a lot like a confidence issue here. ”

    You have the St. Louis Blues, a team last year where teammates literally broke into a fight on ice at practice and they ended up winning the Stanley Cup.

    To me it seems like the agent is more concerned about Jesse getting jerked around the organization, again.Definitely not “clear” to me that this issue lies solely in the dressing room.

    Let’s be honest, the root of the “Jesse Situation” is unknown to the public, all of our speculations as to why “we are here” are conjecture at best.

    For argument’s sake lets run with the hypothesis that both Side and DBO are correct and there is a combination of unease in the locker room and mistrust & anger of management’s deployment that are fueling the young Finn’s unhappiness.

    Young Jesse needs to learn what the Oilers Management has not during the Katz Era, the NHL is a professional league and your “feelings being hurt” should take a back seat to winning NHL Hockey games.

    As the St. Louis Blues have most recently demonstrated, success and winning heal all wounds.

    Jesse’s agent has a duty and an obligation to find an ideal opportunity for Jesse to build a path to successhappiness in the NHL.

    There are those of us in the friendly confines of “The House that LT Built”, that have grown inured and are comfortable even satisfied with the “The Oilers Way” of taking a once valuable asset and turning them into magic beans.

    To Holland’s credit, it appears that he has avoided the Magic Bean route so far. I for one am hoping that Holland can assure Team Jesse that their best path to success and happiness in the NHL is for Jesse Puljujarvi to show up ready to kick ass and take names at the Oilers preseason camp.

  70. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Holland has a lot to juggle. He needs cap, has at least 4 players he could move for cap without hurting the team much, but there are NMCs, and guys nobody else wants.

    He also needs his first rounder, has to plan for the expansion, and needs to maintain his previous stature with other teams and change how other teams view deal with the Oilers.

  71. RonnieB says:

    bwar: Benson-Marody-Currie were great last year and it would be interesting to see them thrown into NHL action together. Could they hang as a third line in the NHL? Maybe and them earning a spot pushes out three players who were anchors last season. I’m hoping the Bakersfield crew proves they are ready for the NHL this year.

    I want to see Nuge between Benson and Marody for at least a couple of exhibition games.

  72. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Every GM has their idea of what wins, at least Holland likes players that can skate and have skill, a step in the right direction

  73. ArmchairGM says:

    Harpers Hair: July 15

    So we do the deal on the 16th then? 😀

  74. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    JimmyV1965,

    The question is: How long will you wait?

    Another is: What does Chia, uh, I mean Holland have to show you before you have to really squint before you see the blurry outline of his “Plan”?

    A bunch of people who follow the team as a hobby can, for the most part, collectively correctly identify this team’s needs. The actual team can’t.

    Whether I like the hire is immaterial. It’s done, and I accept that. Acceptance is the first part of the process of positive change. It doesn’t, however, make my points any less pertinent. I don’t want Holland to fail; quite the opposite. But I look at probabilities and ask myself, “what is the probability Ken can right this ship in the current NHL?”

    Wrong hire for the wrong reasons.

    How long will I wait? No idea. But it won’t be two months that’s for sure. My tune will change big time if Holland hasn’t added a top six forward or a top four dman by the start of the season. I won’t write him off completely by then, but I’ll basically be resigned to the fact that nothing has changed. The season starts in three months, which is actually longer than he’s been on the job now.

  75. Reja says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Holland has a lot to juggle. He needs cap, has at least 4 players he could move for cap without hurting the team much, but there are NMCs, and guys nobody else wants.

    He also needs his first rounder, has to plan for the expansion, and needs to maintain his previous stature with other teams and change how other teams view deal with the Oilers.

    Holland and Yzerman OBC Red Wing version need to feed off each other. Holland will take the first couple of years because Stevie has respect for his Elders.

  76. HT Joe says:

    DBO: New age of people. They don’t like work, they quit.

    Well, that’s an ageist way to characterize an entire generation.

    *EDIT* For the record, I’m facing the reality that I’m too old to consider myself a “young adult”. That having been said, I’ve met donkeys, superstars, lazeybones, good-for-nothings, and workaholics from every generation.

  77. defmn says:

    Jethro Tull: A form of German hasn’t been prevalent sine the Hanseatic era. Then the Royal Navy choked and controlled world trade until at least the beginnings of a formal U.S Navy. English is very much a universal language. But this is bad, as Brits are very lazy at learning other languages. But it’s a very British thing to assume others don’t speak English well enough to make themselves understood. I know the agent isn’t British, but I found it very glib and British like to blame the old “lost in translation” patois.

    I read this completely differently as the agent simply trying to deflect negative perceptions away from Jesse – and himself – by using the old “the media messed it up” ploy. Having worked in the media – and politics – it is quite common and not related to racism at all. It is simply the old “blame it on the guy that isn’t in the room to defend himself” gambit.

    Initially I was going to not respond to the ‘racism’ reference in your original response since I try to avoid political discussions on hockey boards. 😉

    But I will offer one observation. Having lived in a number of countries in my life it has been my experience that the majority in every country regard their own country as the best one in the world. Where the English are distinctive is that they allow themselves to feel bad about that when in fact it is quite healthy and normal to think so.

  78. Victoria Oil says:

    ArmchairGM: So we do the deal on the 16th then?

    Here’s a thought. Trade Looch for Lui on the 16th, each team retains $3 mln a season. Oilers would then owe Lucic $3 mln x 4 years and Lui $3 mln x 3 years for a total of $21 mln. Then trade Lui with 50% retained with a small sweetener if needed. Oilers would owe $16.5 mln over 4 years, which would beat the ~$22 mln over 8 years that would have resulted from a Looch buyout this year, IMO.

    Or keep Lui for a year to help out with our PK and then trade him next summer with 50% retained. In that scenario, Oilers would be on the hook for $12 mln for 3 seasons (2020-2023).

  79. HT Joe says:

    Lowetide:
    Anyone else having twitter issues?

    Yes, I act like a bigger jerk than usual when I use Twitter. I’ve had to quit cold turkey.

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    The Sekera buyout (as much as I don’t like it and wish they found another way to open up $3M in cap space) was/is necessary in order to be able to manage the roster and the cap in-season.

    Sure, they don’t need a $3.5M cushion (and likely won’t have that) but going in to the season with like $500K in cap space could create in-season issues – it wouldn’t even allow the team to bring up a player from the AHL to replace a player on IR (which opens up a roster spot but doesn’t relieve the team of the cap hit during IR).

    Nuge tweaks his wrist, for example and is going to miss 10 days or so – they need some cap space to replace him on the roster in the short term.

    Sure, “don’t sign Chiasson” but, at the same time, Chiasson does make the team better than not.

  81. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Here’s an interesting factoid: Josh Currie was the 5th best producer on the Oilers roster last year while Joseph Gambardella was 7th.

    Also, Currie was 2nd in GAR/60, Gambardella 4th. Third and 5th in WAR/60, respectively.

    Why aren’t we even mentioning these names for possible roster spots? Is it that we’re so enamoured with the shiny new European signings that we aren’t looking at the potential already on the 50-man?

    Joe G. has a legit shot at a 12-14 forward spot in my opinion.

    At the same time, perhaps such stats are a bit misleading in isolation and given sample size and need to be use in conjunction with watching the game?

    While Joe G. should have a shot, its not because of his high level offensive production but its because he is a tenacious forecheker with the ability to get in on the D quickly and cause havock and is a responsible player with skill.

    Josh Currie, from what we saw last year and his career history, isn’t really anything more than a dime a dozen tweener is he? Is he anything more that P. Russell or B. Malone? I am hopeful there is a higher potential option that makes the team and impacts the game more the Josh Currie would – despite his P/60.

  82. Professor Q says:

    Victoria Oil: Here’s a thought. Trade Looch for Lui on the 16th, each team retains $3 mln a season. Oilers would then owe Lucic $3 mln x 4 years and Lui $3 mln x 3 years for a total of $21 mln. Then trade Lui with 50% retained with a small sweetener if needed. Oilers would owe $16.5 mln over 4 years, which would beat the ~$22 mln over 8 years that would have resulted from a Looch buyout this year, IMO.

    Or keep Lui for a year to help out with our PK and then trade him next summer with 50% retained. In that scenario, Oilers would be on the hook for $12 mln for 3 seasons (2020-2023).

    I dont think you can do any of that except the initial trade with 50% retained. I’m not sure if you can stack it and retain another 50%? Would it count as 2 retained contracts? How many does Edmonton have already?

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    KingerOil: –

    – He’s betting that some combo of Jones/Bear/Laggesson/Bouchard/Perrsson etc will play a more uptempo pace that will create more transition and D…

    While we shouldn’t expect any of these players to be ready to fill in directly for injuries in the top 3, this is a big point and may/should prove to be a big deal.

    When players get injured, those that are coming in to the lineup should be legit talented players with upside, skill and pedigree that are NHL ready (or pretty darn close thereto).

    This should be very beneficial.

  84. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Joe G. has a legit shot at a 12-14 forward spot in my opinion.

    At the same time, perhaps such stats are a bit misleading in isolation and given sample size and need to be use in conjunction with watching the game?

    While Joe G. should have a shot, its not because of his high level offensive production but its because he is a tenacious forecheker with the ability to get in on the D quickly and cause havock and is a responsible player with skill.

    Josh Currie, from what we saw last year and his career history, isn’t really anything more than a dime a dozen tweener is he?Is he anything more that P. Russell or B. Malone? I am hopeful there is a higher potential option that makes the team and impacts the game more the Josh Currie would – despite his P/60.

    I wasn’t drawing any specific conclusions from the data, just that these players should at least be in the conversation for bottom-of-the-roster spots. I hear all about Jurco, Nygard and Haas, yet what have they proved? I don’t think they necessarily have a better shot at a roster spot than Currie, Gambardella or Marody – and certainly Benson is in a different class.

  85. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Jesse’s offence in the AHL as an 18 year old was actually very very good – he was 18, playing in a very good league as the youngest player in the league.He wasn’t quite PPG but that is super offence.

    He regressed over the years, likely due to playing all over the place, barely playing, etc.

    His four games in the AHL last year as a 20 year old were dominant.17 shots in those 4 games – 4 points and a fight. Lets not forget, he’s younger than Tyler Benson and, if he played major junior, this past year would have been his first year of AHL eligibility, like Benson.

    There is time for this prospect – AHL time would be great but its a non-option. He has NHL skills and I think can still become a very good middle six, if not top 6, player – he needs to play in the NHL though and he should do so with the Oilers.

    Probably important to point out the forwards on the roster in Bakersfield weren’t exactly the stellar point producing machines of 2018-19. I think Jesse did pretty well when he was down there all things considered. My memory may be failing me, but didn’t he start 3rd line and work his way up the lineup?

  86. ArmchairGM says:

    Professor Q: I dont think you can do any of that except the initial trade with 50% retained. I’m not sure if you can stack it and retain another 50%? Would it count as 2 retained contracts? How many does Edmonton have already?

    Every contract can be retained on twice. Edmonton doesn’t have any retained contracts on the books.

  87. Rube Foster says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Jesse’s offence in the AHL as an 18 year old was actually very very good – he was 18, playing in a very good league as the youngest player in the league.He wasn’t quite PPG but that is super offence.

    He regressed over the years, likely due to playing all over the place, barely playing, etc.

    His four games in the AHL last year as a 20 year old were dominant.17 shots in those 4 games – 4 points and a fight. Lets not forget, he’s younger than Tyler Benson and, if he played major junior, this past year would have been his first year of AHL eligibility, like Benson.

    There is time for this prospect – AHL time would be great but its a non-option. He has NHL skills and I think can still become a very good middle six, if not top 6, player – he needs to play in the NHL though and he should do so with the Oilers.

    OP, you forgot to mention that the “Jesse Regression” of 2018/19 can partly be attributed to his playing with a chronic and painful hip(s) injury.

    And that his 19 year old season resulted in Jesse posting the 7th most goals per game on the 2017/18 Edmonton Oilers, which is third line production on an NHL Hockey team… a bad NHL Hockey team, but third line production none the less.

    I am of the school that If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    I do not believe the solution to the Jesse Situation is to ask him to perform for the Oilers on what appears to project as a very poor NHL third line. it doesn’t take a crystal ball to predict that more of Jesse playing with Lucic and a third line pivot will deliver more of the same – Poor third line scoring metrics, he’s already proven he can do that for us and no one including Jesse finds those results satisfactory.

    A modest proposal based on recent historical analysis of our beloved Edmonton Oilers.

    Exhibit A – Here’s a blast from the past from LT’s childhood favorite The Hockey News – OILERS’ MCDAVID-POULIOT-YAKUPOV TRIO TURNING INTO ONE OF NHL’S BEST LINES

    And a link to the article for those with Oiler induced PTSD or short memories.

    https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/oilers-mcdavid-pouliot-yakupov-trio-turning-into-one-of-nhls-best-lines

    The ConnYak Poo line never lasted more than a handful of games due to Yakupov’s season-ending injury due to the Ref using Yak’s knee as a Barcalounger and a healthy dose of Oiler’s karma. McLellan never for moment reunited this trio or the ConnYak duo before Chia dumped Nail for a third-round draft pick.

    Why the Oilers didn’t have the patience to pump Yak’s tires with a month of hockey reunited with Connor prior to shipping him out of town for a presumably larger return is as mystifying as a Strome for Spooner or a Caggiula for Manning trade.

    I do understand that you “you gotta earn your ice time” types will bristle and be upset at any suggestion of a Jesse and Connor pairing. Take comfort in knowing that you have lots of company in your opinion with established NHL Hockey minds such as Chiarelli, McLellan, MacT, KLowe and a long list of Oiler Management luminaries.

    A month of Jesse playing wing on Connor McDavid’s line produces 1 of 2 results.

    1) The Math is validated and Connor and Jesse are a terrific fit and produce excellent offensive results.
    2) The Math is wrong and Connor and Jesse are a poor fit and deliver middling to poor results.

    The odds are dramatically lopsided in favour of Result 1. Why? Connor McDavid.

    Our esteemed group has arrived at the hypothetical conclusion that Jesse’s unrest with the Edmonton Oilers stems from his erratic and nonconstructive handling by Oilers Management OR there are “chemistry” issues in the locker room. Perhaps it is a healthy combination of both.

    Puljujarvi playing wing with the best hockey player on the planet addresses any concerns about Management’s deployment and would demonstrate to Team Jesse that Holland and Tippet are sincerely different from the past Oiler regimes.

    After a month on Connor’s wing, the Oilers and Jesse can and should reassess. If success abounds, Jesse would not be the first 21 year old in the world to change his mind and his heart regarding what once seemed like an insurmountable issue.

    Or, should Jesse find success on the ice but still arrives at the conclusion he is not happy in Edmonton for reasons real or imagined. His value as an asset will surely be demonstrably higher than it is now and the likelihood of a material asset for his return increases in certainty.

    Or, the results are middling or poor. At that point, I believe the best option would be to loan Jesse out to his Finnish pro team to see if he can regain his mojo. Which essentially puts us right back to where we are now… insert shoulder shrug here.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

  88. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Rube Foster,

    Yes. To all of this. Well said.

  89. JimmyV1965 says:

    Rube Foster: OP, you forgot to mention that he“Jesse Regression” of 2018/19 can partly be attributed to his playing with a chronic and painful hip(s) injury.

    And that his 19 year old season resulted in Jesse posting the 7th most goals per game on the 2017/18 Edmonton Oilers, which is third line production on an NHL Hockey team… a bad NHL Hockey team, but third line production none the less.

    I am of the school that If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    I do no believe the solution to the Jesse Situation is to ask him to perform for the Oilers on what appears to project as a very poor NHL third line.it doesn’t take a crystal ball to predict that more of Jesse playing with Lucic and a third line pivot will deliver more of the same – Poor third line scoring metrics, he’s already proven he can do that for us and no one including Jesse finds those results satisfactory.

    A modest proposal based on recent historical analysis of our beloved Edmonton Oilers.

    Exhibit A – Here’s a blast from the past from LT’s childhood favorite The Hockey News – OILERS’ MCDAVID-POULIOT-YAKUPOV TRIO TURNING INTO ONE OF NHL’S BEST LINES

    And a link to the article for those with Oiler induced PTSD or short memories.

    https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/oilers-mcdavid-pouliot-yakupov-trio-turning-into-one-of-nhls-best-lines

    The ConnYak Poo line never lasted more than a handful of games due to Yakupov’s season-ending injury due to the Ref using Yak’s knee as a Barcalounger and a healthy dose of Oiler’s karma.McLellan never for moment reunited this trio or the ConnYak duo before Chia dumped Nail for a third-round draft pick.

    Why the Oilers didn’t have the patience to pump Yak’s tires with a month of hockey reunited with Connor prior to shipping him out of town for a presumably larger return is as mystifying as a Strome for Spooner or a Caggiula for Manning trade.

    I do understand that you “you gotta earn your ice time” types will bristle and be upset at any suggestion of a Jesse and Connor pairing. Take comfort in knowing that you have lots of company in your opinion with established NHL Hockey minds such as Chiarelli, McLellan, MacT, KLowe and a long list of Oiler Management luminaries.

    A month of Jesse playing wing on Connor McDavid’s line produces 1 of 2 results.

    1) The Math is validated and Connor and Jesse are a terrific fit and produce excellent offensive results.
    2) The Math is wrong and Connor and Jesse are a poor fit and deliver middling to poor results.

    The odds are dramatically lopsided in favour of Result 1. Why? Connor McDavid.

    Our esteemed group has arrived at the hypothetical conclusion that Jesse’s unrest with the Edmonton Oilers stems from his erratic and nonconstructive handling by Oilers Management OR there are “chemistry” issues in the locker room. Perhaps it is a healthy combination of both.

    Puljujarvi playing wing with the best hockey player on the planet addresses any concerns about Management’s deployment and would demonstrate to Team Jesse that Holland and Tippet are sincerely different from the past Oiler regimes.

    After a month on Connor’s wing, the Oilers and Jesse can and should reassess.If success abounds, Jesse would not be the first 21 year old in the world to change his mind and his heart regarding what once seemed like an insurmountable issue.

    Or, should Jesse find success on the ice but still arrives at the conclusion he is not happy in Edmonton for reason real or imagined. His value as an asset will surely be demonstrably higher than it is now and the likelihood of a material asset for his return increases in certainty.

    Or, the results are middling or poor.At that point, I believe the best option would be to loan Jesse out to his Finnish pro team to see if he can regain his mojo.Which essentially puts us right back to where we are now… insert shoulder shrug here.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    I think it’s way to argue that JP should play with McDavid. Unless you’re an NHL coach of course. Then not so much.

  90. YKOil says:

    Side: Whenever the agent talks about the Oilers, it’s largely about Oilers management and how they handle Jesse. None of it points to Jesse being disliked, or hating the dressing room.

    Especially when the agent himself is now saying, “Asked about giving it a go with new Oilers GM Ken Holland in charge, Lehto said, “Well, that’s something that really kind of makes Jesse and really myself think that he should try and go back. But at the same time it’s a lot like a confidence issue here. ”

    To me it seems like the agent is more concerned about Jesse getting jerked around the organization, again.Definitely not “clear” to me that this issue lies solely in the dressing room.

    I’m no fan of JP’s agent at all but I am on board with the confidence/don’t jerk me around aspect of this.

    JP’s handling is the very definition of what happens when both the GM and Coach are compromised in regards to how they are handling their team. Throw in the Oiler’s own, epic, inability to properly develop prospects and all you get is what we have now.

    Holland is being patient and handling this well imo.

  91. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull:
    How on this green earth is a kid like JP is so important to this team? A team with the world’s best player on it?

    The team is in need of some skill and secondary scoring on the wing.

    If Puljujarvi can find his offensive game, as 20-22 year old prospect often do, it would be huge for the team this year and going forward.

    Imagine adding a 0.85PPG winger in to the top 6.

    No chance of that? Well, we all probably thought there was no chance Dylan Strome would become that player at the age of 21 – his struggles up to then had been in line with Jesse’s.

    Adding a “free” top 6 or even middle 6 winger would indeed be big.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    bwar: I feel like whatever player plays the majority of the season with McDavid and Draisaitl will put up 15 goals.I’m guessing that player comes from the incumbents.Kassian played a little over a quarter of his ice time last year with McDavid and Kassian, 15g.Same story with Chiasson, 22g.No idea who lands the gig this season but I feel like damn near anyone who can skate would get 30g alongside McDavid/Draisaitl over a full season.

    Chiasson had 3 5 on 5 goals playing with McDavid.

    He went on his 5 on 5 heater in October playing with Drai (and Rieder) and went cold as soon as McLellan inexplicably broke that up and put Chiasson with McDavid in the name of “more minutes for Chiasson) – how McLellan did not understand that the goal is to find production when McDavid is on the bench and how he could possibly break-up an non-McDavid heater is, to me, the biggest head-scratcher of his entire Oiler coaching career.

    If Chiasson is in the top 6, he should be with Drai and they should be away from McDavid – maybe Granlud on their left wing (not all that different than Rieder to my mind – could be wrong on that).

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: You forgot the Larson issue family and back. Any right D health issues are problematic. The maturation of Nurse and the addition of a number of young D pushing speaks to a much higher quality D complete with depth than last year.

    What back issue?

    Larsson missed like 10 days or so with a tight back 2 seasons ago – that’s it.

    I’m quite confident that he has no chronic back issues even if he skating looks labored occasionally.

    EDIT: I apologize, I may have misread or misinterpreted your post and maybe you weren’t speaking about current worry about Larsson’s back but just pointing out the one time he missed some time?

  94. Jethro Tull says:

    defmn,

    I am 100% old country English. When I say “unconscious racism”, there isn’t a positive light that it can be spun in. Maybe I worded it too strong. Oblivious ignorance of other culture’s intelligence may be a better fit.

    I too have been around the world where the British way of speaking the local lingo is to speak English louder and slower. I’ve also seen us spin what non native English speakers say under the pretense that the speaker cannot possibly know what they’re saying!

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull:
    JimmyV1965,

    The question is: How long will you wait?

    Another is: What does Chia, uh, I mean Holland have to show you before you have to really squint before you see the blurry outline of his “Plan”?

    A bunch of people who follow the team as a hobby can, for the most part, collectively correctly identify this team’s needs. The actual team can’t.

    Whether I like the hire is immaterial. It’s done, and I accept that. Acceptance is the first part of the process of positive change. It doesn’t, however, make my points any less pertinent. I don’t want Holland to fail; quite the opposite. But I look at probabilities and ask myself, “what is the probability Ken can right this ship in the current NHL?”

    Wrong hire for the wrong reasons.

    What has Holland done during his time as an Oiler manager that resembles Chiarelli in any way?

    Did he commit large overpays to players for term?

    Did he trade away future assets in the name of immediate improvement (and not get the right players)?

    Has he given numerous contracts with trade protection for years in the future?

    Holland has made some reasonable bets to try and improve around the edges for the immediate team while consciously not doing anything to prohibit building and making more substantial moves in the future. He has not made material cap commitments to the future. He has not traded away assets, players or picks, that should help in the future.

    Not making things worse in itself is the anti-Chiarelli.

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Those that understand this will thrive. Those that don’t will think that Lucic and JP and a 1st are worth more than a decent goalie and a bona fide scorer for McDavid and Andrej Sekera.

    Which does Ken value more, do you think?

    There is a difference between a scorer for McDavid for this year (and maybe next) that is going to become a UFA and require big money for term vs. a scorer for McDavid that is young and, either under team control or signed for term to a reasonable deal for his 20s.

    I’m quite certain that, if the second option was available in that trade, it would be done. The first option goes against building a team that can win championships and prefers bubble status this year.

    Which does Holland value you more?

    The second option and I’m happy for that.

    This team is simply not in a position to trade away 1st round picks for short term immediate help.

    They will be within a few years if Holland is allowed to do his job and put his plan in place.

  97. Bulging Twine says:

    I have an Archie Henderson story.

    For those who don’t know he was a 6’6″ goon in the AHL in the 80’s. If you were a goon in the AHL in the 80’s you were a tough sob.

    Well, in the early 90’s, I had a coach that moved up with us from Midget through Jr and when we graduated Jr he found a men’s league to put us in. We had success as a group in Midget and Jr but it became clear early that we were no match for these men in this league. There were police teams and firefighter teams and these guys were solid, and so much stronger than us. We were a bunch of skinny 20 year olds. I remember the firefighter team especially took it to us. We were no match and as the season wore on we were losing our confidence and were clearly intimidated.

    One game I show up late to the dressing room and start getting changed. I didn’t hear it all but our coach was going on about this one tough guy and how he’ll eat you up and don’t piss him off etc. I don’t know if I was having a bad day but it was making me super angry. Here we were a bunch of skinny scared kids going out to try to play and our frickin coach was instilling more fear and intimidation into the group. Why did he always do that, it was the last thing we needed!

    I make it out in time to start the game, no warm up. I’m lined up against this giant with long gangly arms and a fighters nose. His shirt didn’t make it all the way to his gloves and it exposed his thick wrists. I remember his elbows. He had big elbows! I thought this must be the guy that coach was talking about! F the coach.

    I am angry and I want to show the boys we don’t have to be scared and to prove to the coach we are more than he thinks we are.

    The puck drops and I take my stick and push the giants skates out from behind. Anyone who’s had this happens knows that even if you have the stability of Kurt Browning you are going down. Down goes the giant, after doing the oh crap scramble.

    The puck goes into their zone in my corner, I go after it and feel this ominous shadow chasing me. Luckily their defenceman got to it first and fired it down to our zone. I bust it back to our zone (I’d never backchecked so hard in my life) and eventually it ends up a face off in our zone.

    I line up and here comes the giant, slashes my stick and is swearing threats. I’m still in F-U mode and now boosted by the knowledge that I’ve got to the giant. See boys!

    The puck drops and swoosh I take out his legs again. Down goes the giant a second time.

    Soon the puck goes over the glass and I quickly skate to the bench.

    The giant skates by our bench towards his. I expect anger and swears or worse. Instead, without looking at our bench, and without acknowledging any player, he directs his words to coach. Calmly and confidently he says, “coach, tell your players to settle down, someone is going to get hurt”. It wasn’t so much of a threat, it was more like a fatherly warning that you knew had truth in it.

    Coach yells to me incredulously, “what are you doing! Do you know who that is?! That’s Archie Henderson! He was a goon in the AHL”. I had missed that part in the pregame speech. I knew that he could literally kill me in a fight.

    I calmed down after that and thankfully, he left me alone.
    I almost died

  98. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: What has Holland done during his time as an Oiler manager that resembles Chiarelli in any way?

    Did he commit large overpays to players for term?

    Did he trade away future assets in the name of immediate improvement (and not get the right players)?

    Has he given numerous contracts with trade protection for years in the future?

    Holland has made some reasonable bets to try and improve around the edges for the immediate team while consciously not doing anything to prohibit building and making more substantial moves in the future. He has not made material cap commitments to the future. He has not traded away assets, players or picks, that should help in the future.

    Not making things worse in itself is the anti-Chiarelli.

    Please don’t put me in the same boat as Jethro. I have little issue with Holland’s performance to date. However, I think it’s incumbent upon him to add even just one good player by the start of the season. He’s been dealt a seven and two for sure, but a competent GM should be able to add one good player. It’s not a big ask.

  99. OmJo says:

    Bulging Twine,

    Thanks for sharing that, didn’t end how I expected it would

  100. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Bulging Twine:
    I have an Archie Henderson story.

    For those who don’t know he was a goon in the AHL in the 80’s.If you were a goon in the AHL in the 80’s you were a tough sob.

    Well, in the early 90’s, I had a coach that moved up with us from Midget through Jr and when we graduated Jr he found a men’s league to put us in.We had success as a group in Midget and Jr but it became clear early that we were no match for these men in this league.There were police teams and firefighter teams and these guys were solid, and so much stronger than us.We were a bunch of skinny 20 year olds.I remember the firefighter team especially took it to us.We were no match and as the season wore on we were losing our confidence and were clearly intimidated.

    One game I show up late to the dressing room and start getting changed.I didn’t hear it all but our coach was going on about this one tough guy and how he’ll eat you up and don’t piss him off etc.I don’t know if I was having a bad day but it was making me super angry.Here we were a bunch of skinny scared kids going out to try to play and our frickin coach was instilling more fear and intimidation into the group.Why did he always do that, it was the last thing we needed!

    I make it out in time to start the game, no warm up.I’m lined up against this giant with long gangly arms and a fighters nose.His shirt didn’t make it all the way to his gloves and it exposed his thick wrists.I remember his elbows.He had big elbows!I thought this must be the guy that coach was talking about!F the coach.

    I am angry and I want to show the boys we don’t have to be scared and to prove to the coach we are more than he thinks we are.

    The puck drops and I take my stick and push the giants skates out from behind.Anyone who’s had this happens knows that even if you have the stability of Kurt Browning you are going down.Down goes the giant, after doing the oh crap scramble.

    The puck goes into their zone in my corner, I go after it and feel this ominous shadow chasing me.Luckily their defenceman got to it first and fired it down to our zone.I bust it back to our zone (I’d never backchecked so hard in my life) and eventually it ends up a face off in our zone.

    I line up and here comes the giant, slashes my stick and is swearing threats.I’m still in F-U mode and now boosted by the knowledge that I’ve got to the giant.See boys!

    The puck drops and swoosh I take out his legs again.Down goes the giant a second time.

    Soon the puck goes over the glass and I quickly skate to the bench.

    The giant skates by our bench towards his.I expect anger and swears or worse.Instead, without even looking at our bench, and without acknowledging any player, he calmly says to the coach, “coach, tell your players to settle down, someone is going to get hurt”.It wasn’t so much of a threat, it was more like a fatherly warning that you knew had truth behind it.

    Coach yells to me incredulously, “what are you doing!Do you know who that is?!That’s Archie Henderson!He was a goon in the AHL”.I had missed that part in the pregame speech.I knew that he could literally kill me in a fight.

    I calmed down after that and thankfully, he left me alone.
    I almost died

    That’s a great story and you told it well… glad you’re still alive to tell it.

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: How long will I wait? No idea. But it won’t be two months that’s for sure. My tune will change big time if Holland hasn’t added a top six forward or a top four dman by the start of the season. I won’t write him off completely by then, but I’ll basically be resigned to the fact that nothing has changed. The season starts in three months, which is actually longer than he’s been on the job now.

    I think you are going to be disappointed as Holland has never ever stated he is going to acquire a top 6 scoring forward (but only appeased questions about finding “a 20 goal scorer) and has expressly stated he’s not looking to upgrade the defence this off-season. He has stated that his primary target right now, prior to the season is a 3C.

    Given he’s been absolutely true to what’s he’s said about his off-season plans, I think it makes sense to take his words at face value.

    Sure, if there is a Russell plus Bear plus a 2nd on the table for Ehlers, he’ll make the move (presumably and s/t Russell’s trade protection).

    At the same time, even just grabbing a 3C and signing a few guys to PTOs would, in my mind, not signal “more of the same”.

    The same would have included trading the 8th or Samorukov or various important future assets for Faulk or Spurgeon or a similar aged forward that is a year from UFA and needing big money/term for his decline years.

    The same would have included giving Chiasson a NMC and probably another year of term.

    The same would have included Simmonds (or similar) for 4 years.

  102. Lowetide says:

    Bulging Twine: Just awesome. SO good.

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    ProfessorQ: I dont think you can do any of that except the initial trade with 50% retained. I’m not sure if you can stack it and retain another 50%? Would it count as 2 retained contracts? How many does Edmonton have already?

    Zero I believe – and the team can retain on 3 at any given time.

    Oh, and, yes, a contract can be retained on twice.

    The Oilers can take on 50% of a contract and then retain 50% of the portion they acquired in a separate transaction.

    Looked in to that in the past.

  104. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    This is excellent. I’m glad that you’re alive to tell this story – could have had a very, very different ending.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: Please don’t put me in the same boat as Jethro. I have little issue with Holland’s performance to date. However, I think it’s incumbent upon him to add even just one good player by the start of the season. He’s been dealt a seven and two for sure, but a competent GM should be able to add one good player. It’s not a big ask.

    I am not and I apologize if my post indicated as such.

    I have lots of time for your reasoned opinion on Holland – I do think you will be disapointed with your requirement for a top 6 forward/top 4 d-man for a pass – this year – next off-season, although cap will be somewhat limited still, there should be numerous ELC contracts on the roster and the hopeful more realistic ability to move out some contracts.

  106. Darth Tu says:

    Darth Tu:
    OriginalPouzar,

    This is excellent. I’m glad that you’re alive to tell this story – could have had a very, very different ending.

    Weird I meant to reply to Bulging Twine, but it seems the page freaked out and tagged OP….

    I’m glad you’re alive too OP!

  107. Jethro Tull says:

    JimmyV1965: Please don’t put me in the same boat as Jethro. I have little issue with Holland’s performance to date. However, I think it’s incumbent upon him to add even just one good player by the start of the season. He’s been dealt a seven and two for sure, but a competent GM should be able to add one good player. It’s not a big ask.

    We are in the same boat. Our opinions differ, that is all. But like many people, you work logic thus:

    Someone doesn’t hold the same opinion as me.

    I think their opinion is bad.

    I know I’m a good person, so my opinion is good.

    If Jethro’s is bad, ergo he is a bad person.

    We ARE in the same boat. We both have more in common regarding the Oilers than not….

  108. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Bulging Twine,

    – Thanks for sharing this

    – I reminded me of one of my friends : cup winner pretty famous in the 80s.

    – I asked him once why he dosent play hockey now. He says he does for shits and giggles in alumni stuff and does one fantasy charity event a year they he hates but it’s a good cause and people pay a lot to draft him so he feels obliged. but about 10 years after he was out of the league he joined a team with some of his high school buddies: he hated it for the same reason he hates the fantasy charity thing. I asked why he said :” because there was always a few guys out there who thought they had something to prove and rough me up when I was goin for the puck and just trying too hard thinking this was there chance to prove themselves : tell everyone hey I gave this NHLer the business. And these guys are so shit all I want to do is have a skate and have fun. “

    – sounds like the giant you played and now our scout had a good attitude.

  109. rickithebear says:

    texmex: I think Kenny Holland is slowly learning how difficult it is to recruit players to come to Edmonton, or how much they Oilers have to pay above market value for players. He probably bought Rej out thinking he’d be able to get one of the talked about UFA’s to come to Oil Country. He probably thought he had Connolly/Gus/whoever signed sealed and delivered only to find out on July 1st (one day after the BO window closed) that not to be the case.

    Just my opinion.

    Speed? Or Quickness?
    Size? Or Toughness – fighting or penetration?
    Skill? Or pocession efficient?

    Quickness is what is required in todays game.
    Quick Transition passing for zonal exits & entry.
    Foot quickness for offensive & defensive positioning in high danger area.

    Toughness?
    7-10 Years ago on HF boards. I defined tough as Flin Flon Bomber tough.
    Not fighting!
    But penetration of high danger area.
    Argued Eberle was one of the toughest players in the game cause of his HD area penetration rate.
    Argued each player established their own expected shot density ( a common numbers was idiotic)
    Noticed it was proportional to % of HD penetration shots.

    Pocession efficiency is critical.
    Noticed in a lot of pocessions in O zone.
    Often not many high danger scorable (Open) shots occurred.
    That direct open/high danger shooting skills goal per pocession rate was 50+ superior to goals from
    Passes. The more passes the less efficient.

    Wanting a lot of great passers with low goal masses while noble is a misguided approach.

    When I looked at your list.
    I saw Caggulia. Smaller, board efficient, goal mass forward.
    Now 8 even goals is top 62 for either winger position.
    182gm 25 even goals
    61gm 8.333 evg player.
    The kid generates top 2 line winger goal production in the game phase ( even) that is 80% of The games TOI.

    Chiarelli was really good at diminishing assets.
    Mact’s Pit pick identified for Barzal.
    Mact’s Col UFA acquisition Caggulia who established top 6 winger even goal production.
    Puljujarvi a top 50 evg RW in his 19 year old season in a 3 rd line role.

    Right away we see Holland is acquirung/ retaining top 4 winger (8-10evg) history ufa fwds.
    Chaisson
    Granlund
    Jurco

    We have forwards who have achieved 1+ seasons of first line winger (14-16 evg) & center (17-18 evg) production Depending on the season.
    Mcdavid
    RNH
    Draisaitl
    Chaisson
    Kassian
    Granlund

    I looked at evg (2-4yr) averages of the top 12 evg producing forwards on the 6 of 7 pacific teams last night. Had not looked at LAK.
    Some only had 11 of 12 players with established history.
    The results
    EDM 11 fwds 148 or 160 evg depends on wether Draisaitl is a 18 or 30 evg player moving forward.
    CGY 11 fwds 148 evg
    VCR 12 fwds 145 evg Ferland on roster.
    SJS 11 fwds 143 evg with Marleau & Thornton
    ANA 12 fwds 139 evg
    ARZ 12 fwds 138 evg Kessel on roster.

  110. Rube Foster says:

    OriginalPouzar: The team is in need of some skill and secondary scoring on the wing.

    If Puljujarvi can find his offensive game, as 20-22 year old prospect often do, it would be huge for the team this year and going forward.

    Imagine adding a 0.85PPG winger in to the top 6.

    No chance of that? Well, we all probably thought there was no chance Dylan Strome would become that player at the age of 21 – his struggles up to then had been in line with Jesse’s.

    Adding a “free” top 6 or even middle 6 winger would indeed be big.

    Bingo!

  111. Bulging Twine says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: I would be in favor of some combination of a Benson/Marody/Currie/Gambardella line. Rookies, but rookies that know each other well and will at least all be rowing in the same direction. Use them in a hybrid 3rd/4th line and see what they can do. Guarantee they will bring everything they have every night, no lack of effort issues there. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work but I think it is worth a try. They could surprise. And this is the year to try it for an extended stretch. It’s not as if this team is built to make a run deep into the playoffs.

    I like this idea. Worth a shot. Instant chemistry.

  112. OriginalPouzar says:

    That could be a fun line.

    Of course, I could also see it as a line that spends 85% of the time chasing in our own zone……

  113. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: What has Holland done during his time as an Oiler manager that resembles Chiarelli in any way?

    Holland’s summer so far looks very much like Chiarelli’s summer last year.

  114. Scungilli Slushy says:

    HT Joe: Well, that’s an ageist way to characterize an entire generation.

    *EDIT* For the record, I’m facing the reality that I’m too old to consider myself a “young adult”.That having been said, I’ve met donkeys, superstars, lazeybones, good-for-nothings, and workaholics from every generation.

    Since the days of Fred and Barney every generation has thought the next was was the end of civilization.

    Each presents a new challenge. SAIEW. The key is adapting. SAIEW.

  115. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jethro Tull: We are in the same boat. Our opinions differ, that is all. But like many people, you work logic thus:

    Someone doesn’t hold the same opinion as me.

    I think their opinion is bad.

    I know I’m a good person, so my opinion is good.

    If Jethro’s is bad, ergo he is a bad person.

    We ARE in the same boat. We both have more in common regarding the Oilers than not….

    Your logic is spectacularly flawed. I actually agree with some of what you say, not all, but I choose to reserve judgement on the GM after only two months on the job. And I certainly wouldn’t think anyone is a bad person because their opinion differs from mine.

    I may be wrong, but I think you’re referring to confirmation bias. This would work something like this:

    I really don’t like the Holland hiring and my subconscious ego requires me to be right. Therefore, every move he makes will be judged through this lens. In my personal case, however, I didn’t like the Holland hiring, but I’m still trying to reserve judgement.

  116. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar: I am not and I apologize if my post indicated as such.

    I have lots of time for your reasoned opinion on Holland – I do think you will be disapointed with your requirement for a top 6 forward/top 4 d-man for a pass – this year – next off-season, although cap will be somewhat limited still, there should be numerous ELC contracts on the roster and the hopeful more realistic ability to move out some contracts.

    Nice pack mentality. No room for differing views.

    I remember a poster a few years ago here saying Oilers fans deserve the Oilers.

    It’s true, for guys like you. Beating the same dead horse for ever until one guy’s arm gets tired and someone new takes over. Stay safe, never innovate, never break the chain. And you wonder why it turns out like always, thinking “if only player X was nurtured” and “well now that sets us up for three years down the road”. Always excusing and finding reasons for when in three years we’re in a worse position.

    You mistake concept for practice, not understanding that to instigate any change, a disturbance must be introduced and managed.

    We’ll see. This team, as it stands is at very best a playoff bubble team. And that’s relying on career years from players well past it and a PDO explosion. And it will be forever, unless the whole ethos changes.

  117. Jethro Tull says:

    JimmyV1965: Your logic is spectacularly flawed. I actually agree with some of what you say, not all, but I choose to reserve judgement on the GM after only two months on the job. And I certainly wouldn’t think anyone is a bad person because their opinion differs from mine.

    I may be wrong, but I think you’re referring to confirmation bias. This would work something like this:

    I really don’t like the Holland hiring and my subconscious ego requires me to be right. Therefore, every move he makes will be judged through this lens. In my personal case, however, I didn’t like the Holland hiring, but I’m still trying to reserve judgement.

    Yep, that’s confirmation bias alright. That’s not what’s going on here. What’s going on is treating Holland like he’s a rookie GM that’s only been here 2 months instead of one of the most experienced people ever who has a very recent body of work with which to judge him on.

  118. defmn says:

    Jethro Tull:
    defmn,

    I am 100% old country English. When I say “unconscious racism”, there isn’t a positive light that it can be spun in. Maybe I worded it too strong. Oblivious ignorance of other culture’s intelligence may be a better fit.

    I too have been around the world where the British way of speaking the local lingo is to speak English louder and slower. I’ve also seen us spin what non native English speakers say under the pretense that the speaker cannot possibly know what they’re saying!

    I don’t question that for a minute. What I was pointing out is that every country and every language finds that bias in a percentage of their population. Having lived in Asia and Europe I’m pretty confident in my opinion that the English aren’t anywhere close to the French or Chinese when it comes to cultural arrogance.

    Not even within a country mile, imo. 😉

  119. Jethro Tull says:

    defmn: I don’t question that for a minute. What I was pointing out is that every country and every language finds that bias in a percentage of their population. Having lived in Asia and Europe I’m pretty confident in my opinion that the English aren’t anywhere close to the French or Chinese when it comes to cultural arrogance.

    Not even within a country mile, imo.

    No worries. I’m not mentioning how we smashed the Aussies today either.😄

  120. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Holland’s summer so far looks very much like Chiarelli’s summer last year.

    Last summer Chiarelli didn’t harm the long term future of the team – what he’s been heavily critisized for.

    Of course in the 2-3 months leading up to this summer, there were signings of non-established and massively struggling 30 plus goalies to big contracts, trading away picks and incumbent wingers for bafflings d-men (Manning, Wideman, Petrovic), etc.

  121. kooler says:

    Everybody seems to benefit from Mcdavid and Draisatl…..so why not just drop JP on there and boost his confidence, it’s not like the 3rd on that line is breaking the top 10 in scoring. JP can still be a decent placeholder on that line and raise his stock. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Chaisson’’s deal is a result of playing with those two and PK opportunities.

  122. OriginalPouzar says:

    JethroTull: Nice pack mentality. No room for differing views.

    I have no idea where you get this take – because I don’t equate your position and Jimmy’s position?

    I have a hugely minority opinion on various topics and offering am the differing view deviating from “the pack”

  123. rickithebear says:

    It surprises me how many Canadian university trained people on here ignore
    Correct results based data cause it does not fit the narrative they are presenting.

    I list the evg goal production to achieve 1st, 2nd, 3rd line center, LW, RW
    Which outlines the forwards with the highest evg mass per season.
    A result of density & volume rates paired with high % Gm played performance.

    Points per game.
    1. Does not look at the affect of a players failure to maintain a full season games played .
    Were you are excluding volume affect on the goal mass ( total formula).
    2. It Treats different success rate actions the same in even situation which they are not.
    Direct shot ev Goals can be 60% more efficient by pocession than 1st assist passes.
    Direct shot ev goals can be 100% more efficient by pocession than 2nd assist passes.

    I used to use ppg until I realized it does not provide a players true pocession performance.
    This is independent of team, comp, ZS, NZ trap, HD area abandonment.

    Perfect example would be Caggulia who is a 2 Nd line evg production winger 8 evg in a 61 gm season.
    I e top 6.
    Yet you look at his achieving a high goal mass rate as a flaw, cause he does not accumalate highly pocession inefficient 1st & 2nd assists.

    Just brutal game analysis folks.

    The same silly logic exists in football.
    They look at yards as a major production factor driving contracts.
    Cleveland got one of the best receivers in the game according to MSM.

    WTF.

    Wide Reciever Cummulative TD mass 2017 & 2018.
    #1 A. Brown 24 TD now with raiders for a 2nd & 3rd.
    #32 OBJ 9 TD

    By just facts:
    Top 6 even goal forward by position
    Macdavid 1st line center
    Draisaitl 1st line center, LW, RW
    RNH
    1st line center when games played is not a performance issue.
    2 Nd line center with gm played issue.
    Lucic
    1st line LW in 3-2-1 dominate system
    3rd line LW in 3-1-1-1 dominate system
    Chaisson
    1st line Winger in combined 1st/3rd line role.
    2nd line winger in combined 2nd/3rd line role.
    Kassian
    1st line winger in combined 1st/4th line role.
    2nd line winger in combined 2nd/4th line role.

    Goals win games!
    Passes might get in net if someone else does it!

  124. OriginalPouzar says:

    kooler:
    Everybody seems to benefit from Mcdavid and Draisatl…..so why not just drop JP on there and boost his confidence, it’s not like the 3rd on that line is breaking the top 10 in scoring. JP can still be a decent placeholder on that line and raise his stock. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Chaisson’’s deal is a result ofplaying with those two and PK opportunities.

    Chiasson scored 3 goals at evens with McDavid – his production last year was based on a huge heater early in the year with Drai and Rieder and PP prodcution, mainly in the first half.

    His even strength offence dried the game he was taken off of Drai’s wing and put with McDavid – an inexplicable decision by the then coach.

  125. pts2pndr says:

    Dustylegnd: Archie Henderson is a relic left over form the Slap Shot days, he is not a bright individual I have met him on several occasions when he was doing amateur scouting for Washington etc etc etc…ther is nothing progressive or innovative about Archie….he is the brother of Donnie Henderson, the Linesman that got cross checked from behind by Wideman

    The fact that Tyler Wright is Joining the club may not bode well for Bobby Green…which is a positive in my mind

    If you have ever been in the decision makers chair you would understand that there is value in a base evaluation. You take that individuals evaluation and work from there. Sometimes there is great value from all that is not new. All that is old school is not in of itself wrong. To understand where you need to go you first have to know from where you began.

  126. pts2pndr says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Minnesota would be a great landing place for Puljujarvi, just sayin.

    I would think Winnipeg would be in the top three.

  127. Bulging Twine says:

    Darth Tu:
    OriginalPouzar,

    This is excellent. I’m glad that you’re alive to tell this story – could have had a very, very different ending.

    Thank you.
    Yes, think Ovechkin – Svechnikov but worse

  128. pts2pndr says:

    JimmyV1965: Holland has been on the job for two months and you’re making pronouncements on his performance. I’m certainly not thrilled so far and I’ll be less than impressed if he fails to add one good player to this lineup. But I think it’s foolish to judge someone’s performance after two months. How can you possibly say he is turning the team into the 00’s Wings? He’s been on the job for two months. There’s miles of road ahead and lots of time before the season starts. There are still multiple teams out there in cap hell. They have to address this before the season starts. There’s plenty of time to make changes. Will Holland capitalize on this? Maybe not. But I’m not judging him two months into his job.

    Thank you. While I may not agree with you some of the time your posts are always well thought out and reasonable. In the short term we have to give Holland a break. It is not on him that our previous management has left us wanting.

  129. Bulging Twine says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Bulging Twine,

    – sounds like the giant you played and now our scout had a good attitude.

    Really amazing mercy and self control

  130. pts2pndr says:

    Reja: Hollandand Yzerman OBC Red Wing version need to feed offeach other. Holland will take the first couple of years because Steviehas respect for his Elders.

    Give peace a chance. Pessimists are rarely disappointed but it is a not the way to live. Just one mans opinion. Believe in yourself and believe in those around you.

  131. pts2pndr says:

    Jethro Tull: Nice pack mentality. No room for differing views.

    I remember a poster a few years ago here saying Oilers fans deserve the Oilers.

    It’s true, for guys like you. Beating the same dead horse for ever until one guy’s arm gets tired and someone new takes over. Stay safe, never innovate, never break the chain. And you wonder why it turns out like always, thinking “if only player X was nurtured” and “well now that sets us up for three years down the road”. Always excusing and finding reasons for when in three years we’re in a worse position.

    You mistake concept for practice, not understanding that to instigate any change, a disturbance must be introduced and managed.

    We’ll see. This team, as it stands is at very best a playoff bubble team. And that’s relying on career years from players well past it and a PDO explosion. And it will be forever, unless the whole ethos changes.

    Will being right make you happy? If you are wrong will you be man enough to admit it? While I understand your frustration is this life changing for you? Is the cost to you worth it? When all is said and done this is a first world problem.

  132. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I have no idea where you get this take – because I don’t equate your position and Jimmy’s position?

    I have a hugely minority opinion on various topics and offering am the differing view deviating from “the pack”

    Actually, I think our opinions diverge quite substantially. If I’m correct, you will be quite happy to start the year with the existing lineup, save for a few minor tweaks. I’ll be quite disappointed if Holland doesn’t add a top six winger or top four dman. I do agree that my position is the more mainstream opinion and yours is likely in the minority. Not that this makes either of us right.

  133. JimmyV1965 says:

    pts2pndr: Thank you. While I may not agree with you some of the time your posts are always well thought out and reasonable. In the short term we have to give Holland a break. It is not on him that our previous management has left us wanting.

    Thanks for that. I appreciate it. Kinda blows a hole in my opinion that I am always right though.

  134. JimmyV1965 says:

    My dream of JP playing in Europe is dying a rather painful death. If he wants to play for Jokiert in the KHL, he world have to sign very soon. The season starts Sept. 11. I think Liga starts in mid August.

  135. Glovjuice says:

    Rube Foster: OP, you forgot to mention that the“Jesse Regression” of 2018/19 can partly be attributed to his playing with a chronic and painful hip(s) injury.

    And that his 19 year old season resulted in Jesse posting the 7th most goals per game on the 2017/18 Edmonton Oilers, which is third line production on an NHL Hockey team… a bad NHL Hockey team, but third line production none the less.

    I am of the school that If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    I do not believe the solution to the Jesse Situation is to ask him to perform for the Oilers on what appears to project as a very poor NHL third line.it doesn’t take a crystal ball to predict that more of Jesse playing with Lucic and a third line pivot will deliver more of the same – Poor third line scoring metrics, he’s already proven he can do that for us and no one including Jesse finds those results satisfactory.

    A modest proposal based on recent historical analysis of our beloved Edmonton Oilers.

    Exhibit A – Here’s a blast from the past from LT’s childhood favorite The Hockey News – OILERS’ MCDAVID-POULIOT-YAKUPOV TRIO TURNING INTO ONE OF NHL’S BEST LINES

    And a link to the article for those with Oiler induced PTSD or short memories.

    https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/oilers-mcdavid-pouliot-yakupov-trio-turning-into-one-of-nhls-best-lines

    The ConnYak Poo line never lasted more than a handful of games due to Yakupov’s season-ending injury due to the Ref using Yak’s knee as a Barcalounger and a healthy dose of Oiler’s karma.McLellan never for moment reunited this trio or the ConnYak duo before Chia dumped Nail for a third-round draft pick.

    Why the Oilers didn’t have the patience to pump Yak’s tires with a month of hockey reunited with Connor prior to shipping him out of town for a presumably larger return is as mystifying as a Strome for Spooner or a Caggiula for Manning trade.

    I do understand that you “you gotta earn your ice time” types will bristle and be upset at any suggestion of a Jesse and Connor pairing. Take comfort in knowing that you have lots of company in your opinion with established NHL Hockey minds such as Chiarelli, McLellan, MacT, KLowe and a long list of Oiler Management luminaries.

    A month of Jesse playing wing on Connor McDavid’s line produces 1 of 2 results.

    1) The Math is validated and Connor and Jesse are a terrific fit and produce excellent offensive results.
    2) The Math is wrong and Connor and Jesse are a poor fit and deliver middling to poor results.

    The odds are dramatically lopsided in favour of Result 1. Why? Connor McDavid.

    Our esteemed group has arrived at the hypothetical conclusion that Jesse’s unrest with the Edmonton Oilers stems from his erratic and nonconstructive handling by Oilers Management OR there are “chemistry” issues in the locker room. Perhaps it is a healthy combination of both.

    Puljujarvi playing wing with the best hockey player on the planet addresses any concerns about Management’s deployment and would demonstrate to Team Jesse that Holland and Tippet are sincerely different from the past Oiler regimes.

    After a month on Connor’s wing, the Oilers and Jesse can and should reassess.If success abounds, Jesse would not be the first 21 year old in the world to change his mind and his heart regarding what once seemed like an insurmountable issue.

    Or, should Jesse find success on the ice but still arrives at the conclusion he is not happy in Edmonton for reasons real or imagined. His value as an asset will surely be demonstrably higher than it is now and the likelihood of a material asset for his return increases in certainty.

    Or, the results are middling or poor.At that point, I believe the best option would be to loan Jesse out to his Finnish pro team to see if he can regain his mojo.Which essentially puts us right back to where we are now… insert shoulder shrug here.

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    This is simply fantastic. What a post.

  136. Glovjuice says:

    Bulging Twine:
    I have an Archie Henderson story.

    For those who don’t know he was a 6’6″ goon in the AHL in the 80’s.If you were a goon in the AHL in the 80’s you were a tough sob.

    Well, in the early 90’s, I had a coach that moved up with us from Midget through Jr and when we graduated Jr he found a men’s league to put us in.We had success as a group in Midget and Jr but it became clear early that we were no match for these men in this league.There were police teams and firefighter teams and these guys were solid, and so much stronger than us.We were a bunch of skinny 20 year olds.I remember the firefighter team especially took it to us.We were no match and as the season wore on we were losing our confidence and were clearly intimidated.

    One game I show up late to the dressing room and start getting changed.I didn’t hear it all but our coach was going on about this one tough guy and how he’ll eat you up and don’t piss him off etc.I don’t know if I was having a bad day but it was making me super angry.Here we were a bunch of skinny scared kids going out to try to play and our frickin coach was instilling more fear and intimidation into the group.Why did he always do that, it was the last thing we needed!

    I make it out in time to start the game, no warm up.I’m lined up against this giant with long gangly arms and a fighters nose.His shirt didn’t make it all the way to his gloves and it exposed his thick wrists.I remember his elbows.He had big elbows!I thought this must be the guy that coach was talking about!F the coach.

    I am angry and I want to show the boys we don’t have to be scared and to prove to the coach we are more than he thinks we are.

    The puck drops and I take my stick and push the giants skates out from behind.Anyone who’s had this happens knows that even if you have the stability of Kurt Browning you are going down.Down goes the giant, after doing the oh crap scramble.

    The puck goes into their zone in my corner, I go after it and feel this ominous shadow chasing me.Luckily their defenceman got to it first and fired it down to our zone.I bust it back to our zone (I’d never backchecked so hard in my life) and eventually it ends up a face off in our zone.

    I line up and here comes the giant, slashes my stick and is swearing threats.I’m still in F-U mode and now boosted by the knowledge that I’ve got to the giant.See boys!

    The puck drops and swoosh I take out his legs again.Down goes the giant a second time.

    Soon the puck goes over the glass and I quickly skate to the bench.

    The giant skates by our bench towards his.I expect anger and swears or worse.Instead, without looking at our bench, and without acknowledging any player, he directs his words to coach.Calmly and confidently he says, “coach, tell your players to settle down, someone is going to get hurt”.It wasn’t so much of a threat, it was more like a fatherly warning that you knew had truth in it.

    Coach yells to me incredulously, “what are you doing!Do you know who that is?!That’s Archie Henderson!He was a goon in the AHL”.I had missed that part in the pregame speech.I knew that he could literally kill me in a fight.

    I calmed down after that and thankfully, he left me alone.
    I almost died

    Great stuff.

  137. DBO says:

    Dzingel to Carolina for years, $6.75 total. So less per year then Ferland.

    Ouch. That would have been a nice addition at that price point for the Oilers. Trying hard not to complain about Holland, but what’s the point of the sekera buyout if we don’t get in on any impact free agent. Hoping there is a deal that brings back a good top 6 players and that cap space is needed. Better not be an Eberle for Strome deal where we never used the freed up cap space.

  138. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dzingel signs for 2 years with Carolina.

  139. OriginalPouzar says:

    Cap space from the Sekera buyout has already been used – it was used to gain flexibility from June 29 through the entire regular season.

    The team currently has apx $3.5M in cap space and the GM has been express that he needs to add a 3C to the lineup – be that a UFA like Sheehan or Lindberg or Boyle or Marleau or trying to trade for a guy like Cody Eakin.

    Without the buyout there would currently be about $500K in cap space, without the 3C – that isn’t even enough cushion to go in to the season.

    If we have under $1M of cap space going in to the season, we would likely not even be able to call up a player from the AHL when someone gets hurt and goes on IR.

    Even if another material player is not signed, although I don’t agree with the buyout of Sekera and wish Holland would have found another way to free up $3M in space (i.e. trade Russell with $1M retained, for example), the opening up of $3M (give or take) was and is imperative to the bets that Holland has made, the potential ability to make another move this off-season and the ability to manage the team during the season.

    As an aside, Strome at $3.1M last year was more valuable than Eberle at $6M last year – just saying.

  140. ArmchairGM says:

    WTF is wrong with Holland?

  141. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lets not forget that Dzingel is really a 30-40 point player.

    He would have helped the Oilers but I doubt he’ll be value for his contract – even with what he signed for.

    He had a similar year to Chiasson, with an all-career heater early in the season and, other than that, very mediocre.

  142. Lowetide says:

    For The Athletic: The Oilers are finally recovering from the wayward 2014 Draft

    https://theathletic.com/1071748/2019/07/12/lowetide-the-oilers-are-finally-recovering-from-the-wayward-2014-draft/

  143. Cassandra says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Lets not forget that Dzingel is really a 30-40 point player.

    He would have helped the Oilers but I doubt he’ll be value for his contract – even with what he signed for.

    He had a similar year to Chiasson, with an all-career heater early in the season and, other than that, very mediocre.

    With his heater Chiasson still scored at 4th line rates.

    Dzingel, on the other hand, put up more than 2 pts per 60 with both Ottawa and Columbus, and before that has three years in a row of scoring more than 1.5 per 60.

    They aren’t in the same ballpark of player. I have doubts about Dzingel but the contract is pretty good for a UFA. Great signing by the Hurricanes.

    Chiasson, on the other hand, should be playing on a 1 year deal near the minimum for the rest of his life. He’s a smaller, less skilled version of Pat Maroon.

  144. texmex says:

    DBO:
    Dzingel to Carolina foryears, $6.75 total. So less per year then Ferland.

    Ouch. That would have been a nice addition at that price point for the Oilers.Trying hard not to complain about Holland, but what’s the point of the sekera buyout if we don’t get in on any impact free agent. Hoping there is a deal that brings back a good top 6 players and that cap space is needed. Better not be an Eberle for Strome deal where we never used the freed up cap space.

    Holland can’t force players to come to Edmonton. The reality is, Edmonton is not high on the most desirable cities to play list.

    Draft and develop.

  145. Jethro Tull says:

    pts2pndr: Will being right make you happy? If you are wrong will you be man enough to admit it? While I understand your frustration is this life changing for you? Is the cost to you worth it? When all is said and done this is a first world problem.

    Wow. Where to start. First, no, being wrong will make me happy. It means everything is coming up Oilers.

    Second; “Man” enough? In this day and age? Infers women are naturally wrong and don’t admit it. How about “have the integrity to admit I’m wrong.” That’s easy. I’m wrong all the time. It allows me to be right once in awhile.

    Third: First world problem? Where have I stated that this affects me more than say, starvation in a third world country. I honestly don’t know what you’re reaching for here. Some kind of pseudo-psychology? You’d have to do better than that.

  146. HT Joe says:

    texmex: Holland can’t force players to come to Edmonton. The reality is, Edmonton is not high on the most desirable cities to play list.
    Draft and develop.

    Edmonton is what it is. But the Oilers (a) being among the very worst run sports franchises for over a decade, and (b) having media reps publicly putting down players (e.g., insinuating flakiness) probably doesn’t help matters.

    Until the Oilers look like a professionally-run organization off the ice and a potential Stanley cup contender on the ice, it wouldn’t matter how Edmonton stacks up as a city – who would want to sign on to a train wreck?

  147. HT Joe says:

    HT Joe,

    Texmex: sorry, I meant to end my response by agreeing with you… draft and develop is the only way to dig out of this. That and I would add keeping players we did draft and develop if at all possible (e.g., Nurse)

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