And His Coat is Torn and Frayed

Ken Holland isn’t done shopping, based on his own verbal. Jesse Puljujarvi is in play, the free-agent signings are likely done and not adequate compared to the team’s needs. What does this team have?

Here is the 49-man list, with two slides.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Projecting Darnell Nurse’s next contract and possible trades
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: A missing mom, aching feet and looking for Kevin Lowe: A week in the life of Oilers prospect Raphael Lavoie
  • New Lowetide: What to do when Connor McDavid rests: The Oilers’ ideal No. 2 line for 2019-20
  • Lowetide: Adding a scorer will be Ken Holland’s first big move as Oilers GM
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the Oilers’ depth chart looks like now and where they go from here
  • Jonathan Willis: How often do goalies like the Oilers’ Mike Smith rebound?
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster moves clear the way for Oilers top prospects Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto.
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers GM Ken Holland promises long-term rewards for an approach light on short-term improvements
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Trade market now most likely place for Oilers to find scoring winger
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘He comes as advertised’: Philip Broberg’s skating makes him development camp standout for Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers plan to skew younger on defence could open the door for Evan Bouchard, Dmitri Samorukov
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.
  • Lowetide: Are these Jesse Puljujarvi’s final days with the Edmonton Oilers?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ranking the Oilers’ trade assets from the high-priced diamonds to those needing fresh starts
  • Lowetide: Oilers GM Ken Holland is shopping for 20-goal scorers on a budget. What will he find?

CURRENT 50-MAN

1 G Mikko Koskinen. $4.5 million for three seasons beginning 2019-20. I don’t like the money but am fine with the bet.

2 G Mike Smith. A $2 million, one year investment. I think it’s risky, would have preferred a less weathered option.

3 G Shane Starrett. $700, 000 this season and then an RFA and arbitration eligible. I believe he has a chance here, needs to be dominant again in Bakersfield and wait for his chance.

4. G Dylan Wells. $745,000 this coming season, the second year of his entry deal. All of the young goalies need to show separation this season, Holland’s drafting of Ilya Konovalev may have started a clock.

5 G Stuart Skinner. $784,166 this season, the middle year of entry. He had his moments, including a playoff performance that may give him traction. He’s in the same spot as Wells.

6 G Olivier Rodrigue. $809,167 and he’s one of two contracts (Broberg) that will slide before the season begins. Solid goalie prospect.

7 LD Oscar Klefbom. $4.167 million through summer 2023. Klefbom is a vital player for this team, as he displays the complete range of skills and can be counted on in any situation. His health is central to success.

8 LD Darnell Nurse. $3.2 million for another season and then RFA. A big season on the way, he’s going to get a massive raise next summer if he delivers 40+ points again. I wrote about him here.

9 LD Caleb Jones. $720,000 this season and then RFA. The way has been cleared for a young defenseman and Jones will arrive in camp as the favourite. Exceptional skater, good puck moving ability.

10 LD Brandon Manning. $2.25 million and then UFA. It makes sense to keep him on the roster as a No. 7D over a younger player who needs plenty of work. I don’t think he’ll play much in the NHL 2019-20.

11 LD William Lagesson. $741,666 next season and RFA. He remains under the radar because of Jones, but the organization may feel he’s close as well.

12 LD Keegan Lowe. $675,000 this season and then UFA. He has been mentor to several of the youngsters currently climbing the ladder.

13 LD Dmitri Samorukov. His entry level deal starts this fall ($825,000). The future as it pertains to shutdown defensemen. Maybe there’s more here.

14 LD Philip Broberg. First-round pick just signed, he has a major future with the Oilers if he develops.

15 RD Adam Larsson. $4.166 million for two more seasons and then UFA. One of the most important players on the team. Vital he rebound.

16 LD Kris Russell. $4 million this and next year. He is not a strong partner for Darnell Nurse based on Puck IQ metrics.

17 RD Matt Benning. $1.9 million next season and then RFA. I like him enough to consider him a legit top-4 D option, would place him on second pair over Russell.

18 RD Joel Persson. $1,000,000 next year and then RFA. Has a chance to make the team, important he impress early.

19 RD Ethan Bear. $720,000 this and next year. Impossible to know where he lands, there is a version of the script that gets him an early recall so Bouchard and others can continue to develop in the minors.

20 RD Logan Day. $750,000 and then RFA. Puck mover has outstanding ability and earned himself an NHL deal.

21 RD Evan Bouchard. $925,000 entry deal kicks in this fall. Bouchard is just entering pro hockey but could climb over a bunch of these young blue at any time. Suspect he’s in the NHL by March.

22 RD Ryan Mantha. $870,000 next season if he plays.

23 LC Connor McDavid. $12.5 million through 2026. The franchise. He left unhappy and injured, and it will be fascinating to see how he approaches 2019-20. There’s a lot of pressure.

24 LC Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. $6 million this and one season after. Nuge is central to Edmonton’s success in 2019-20. Tippett will need him to center a tough minutes line that can outscore opponents.

25 RC Gaetan Haas. $925,000 for one season and then UFA. A real wildcard, he is a righty and has speed. Can he deliver enough offense?

26 RC Kyle Brodziak. $1.15 million next season and then UFA. I believe he’ll go LTIR if he doesn’t make the team. What does he have to prove in Bakersfield?

27 LC Colby Cave. $675,000 next season and then RFA. He has a job but the GM who brought him in is gone. No idea where he lands.

28 RC Josh Currie. $687,500 this coming season and then UFA. Don’t look past Currie, who impressed down the stretch with the Oilers. He could catch on in a number of areas.

29 RC Cameron Hebig. $759,166 next season and then RFA. He started strong and then faded as other youngsters emerged. Some of those men may be in Edmonton in 2019-20, it’s go time for a pretty skilled forward.

30 LC Ryan McLeod. $834,167 times three, his entry deal begins this fall. A speed demon who was shy as a scorer during his junior career, his first pro season will be fun to track.

31 LC Brad Malone. $700,000 and then UFA next summer. Center insurance likely to spend most or all of the season in Bakersfield.

32 LW Leon Draisaitl. $8.5 million through 2025 summer. A 50-goal season is the stuff of legends, can he do it again?

33 LW Joakim Nygard. $925,000 this season and then UFA. At 26, the blazer arrives in the NHL. He’s in a fantastic spot, my estimates have him winning a job on one of the skill lines.

34 LW Milan Lucic. $6 million through 2023 summer. Kurt Leavins has talked about a late bonus and trade, others have suggested the big man is coming back. The best spot, based on current roster, might be No. 2 line with Nuge. They won’t score a lot but can keep the puck a long way from danger and that has appeal.

35 LW Jujhar Khaira. $1.2 million for the next two seasons. Khaira brings a nice range to the team, but will need to post more offense to stay ahead of Benson and others.

36 LW Tyler Benson. $808,333 this and next season, then RFA. Stunning passes are his calling card and Benson’s creativity is going to get him chances and soon. He starts at the top of the AHL roster, but with Khaira and Lucic ahead of him, I can see a skill line job available very soon.

37 LW Joe Gambardella. $700,000 times two and then UFA. I believe he has a chance to make the big club out of camp, depending on Benson’s situation. Great forechecker, Tippett will value it.

38 LW Nolan Vesey. $817,500 this season and then RFA. One of the ‘small c’ curious moves made by Peter Chiarelli, Vesey is not a productive AHL player.

39 LW Ostap Safin. $775,000 entry deal starts in the fall. Injuries completely derailed his season and may have a major impact on his career. There’s concern here.

40 RW Sam Gagner. $3.15 million this season, then UFA. Per 82 games during his NHL career, Gagner scores 16 goals and 46 points. Edmonton needs all of that from him this year.

41 RW Alex Chiasson. $2.15 million times two. He scored 22 and cashed on a two-year deal. I think 12-15 is a reasonable bet for goals and he can play up and down the lineup.

42 RW Zack Kassian. $1.95 million this season and then UFA. Chiasson’s signing may impact his future with the Oilers, but right now he’s penciled in on the McDavid line.

43 RW Markus Granlund. $1.3 million and then UFA. He can play all forward positions, I listed him here due to Puljujarvi’s uncertainty. Impressive utility.

44 RW Tomas Jurco. $750,000 this season and then UFA. He has a compelling resume and could be the surprise of a quiet free agent summer. Jurco’s skills are enough to get him a job on either wing if he shows well.

45 RW Jesse Puljujarvi. RFA. His future with the team remains up in the air, but if he does sign there will be plenty of room for him.

46 RW Cooper Marody. $925,000 this year and next year, then RFA. He doesn’t get much chatter but Marody is the most obviously talented of the minor leaguers. Can make it at center or on the wing.

47 RW Kailer Yamamoto. $894,166 this year and next year then RFA. He has enough talent to rise quickly on this list, and I don’t buy the idea more time is needed. That said, he needs to show he can score goals in the NHL.

48 RW Patrick Russell. $700,000 and then UFA. He has some speed issues, but brings a rugged style and is a PK scoring machine in the AHL.

49 RW Kirill Maksimov. $775,000 entry deal starts in the fall. Scorer in junior, if he connects early and often look for him to move up the depth chart quickly. Based on reports, I think he may take a little time to learn playing away from the puck.

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193 Responses to "And His Coat is Torn and Frayed"

  1. Ben says:

    *OP pushes glasses up nose*

    Uhhh, actually, Puljujarvi doesn’t technically HAVE a contract and so should appear on the 90-man reserve list and not the 50-man list, which is expressly reserved for players who have signed standard player contracts.

    *fansplaining complete*

    If there’s any chance of the team being significantly better, they’ll need a couple of three things to happen:

    1) Holland to win a big trade

    2) Tippett to cast a PDO spell

    3) The kids to step up**

    **”The kids to step up” is a Trademark owned wholly by the Edmonton Oilers, any use of term is forbidden without expressed written consent from the Oilers Entertainment Group.

  2. Professor Q says:

    Ben,

    Is it expressed or express?

  3. Reja says:

    Professor Q:
    Ben,

    Is it expressed or express?

    Toot Toot on the Lokomotiv Express.

  4. razor says:

    I think a lot of people (media) are worrying too much about this Puljujarvi thing. If Holland can’t find good value, there is no issue for Puljujarvi going to Europe for a year. I think it may be even better for his long term development. Watch any WJC highlights and you can tell this kid needs to play with high confidence level to succeed. Playing overseas might help him restore that confidence. Being a 4th overall pick, I don’t see him staying over there long and he’ll want to come back to try his luck in the bigs.

  5. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    Puljujarvi plays as if he never left the big ice. Going to Europe might help trick another NHL team that he’s found his game.

  6. jtblack says:

    Nurse article was interesting. Seems to me, Edm still doesnt know what they have in Nurse.

  7. Durag says:

    Want to hear my spicy take on Puljujarvi that is based on absolutely nothing? No? Too bad.

    Jesse strikes me as a guy for whom hockey has always been easy. He’s big, he’s gifted, he grew up playing in (on?) a small pond and dominated from the get go. Right up to the NHL, everything was easy. Then he got the NHL and it was hard. The NHL is hard for everyone, even McDavid. When things got hard, Jesse didn’t look in the mirror and say “what do I have to do to be better?”, Jesse looked around him and said “whose fault is it that things aren’t working out?” Jesse’s agent told him that he’s a very special boy and the Oilers mishandled his delicate genius and he needs to go to a team that understands him (and to be fair, there’s a kernel of truth to that).

    Therefore I would trade him for Eriksson-Ek, I would trade him for Bennet, I would have traded him for Nylander. I would take anyone who has a lower ceiling, but could be counted on to play a 3rd line NHL role for years to come. My bet is if Jesse goes to Europe, he doesn’t come back, and even if he gets a shot on another NHL team, he’s back in Europe by 25 regardless.

    Jesse’s ceiling may be high, but the elevator is broken and he’ll be damned if he’s taking the stairs.

  8. YKOil says:

    A-hem. To be clear, Pulju has a contract, the qualifying offer, that he can activate at any time until such time as his status, as to where he is playing, is determined or the qualifying offer expires..

    Until such time, to list him anywhere BUT the 50 player is irresponsible. The technicality is over-ruled by the reality in this case.

    Keep doing what you are doing LT, you have the right of it.

  9. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m going to beat the dead horse and count this as 48 with the two slides.

    Jesse Puljjuarvi does not have a contract and, unless things change (and they may), he’s not likely to sign one with the Oilers – he could be traded for a player with a contract (and that will count) but he could simply sit or head home or be traded for an amateur prospect or a pick.

    Essentially 46 contracts so some room to maneuver but we wouldn’t want to go in to the season with more than 48 I wouldn’t think – the trade return from Jesse plus the trade for the 3C (Eakin) or the signing of the 3C (Lindberg, Sheehan, Boyle, Marleau) for the two extra.

  10. OriginalPouzar says:

    LT – I understand being fine with the bet on Koskinen last year, especially given he was slated for 1B, however, given his below average starting tending last year (fatigue notwithstanding), how are you OK with the bet on him as 1A this year?

    Do you feel he’ll improve his game at his age?

    Do you feel that he’ll be better with a year of adjustment behind him?

    Do you feel the team defence or better depth in the bottom 6 (i.e. less own zone time) will help – along with Tippett?

    Do you feel that his workload will be less with Smith as the 1B?

  11. Professor Q says:

    jtblack:
    Nurse article was interesting. Seems to me, Edm still doesnt know what they have in Nurse.

    Other teams’ fans don’t seem to either.

    You tell them that Nurse is a 50 point D and they’re shocked. They think he’s good, but not Nylander or Marner trade worthy good.

    It’s the same reason why when he was captaining the Greyhounds and being one of the best D in the OHL, Team Canada overlooked him (reports of needing to work on a few things etc.) for both 2013 and 2014, even after being an underage player for International events before then.

    Ouellet and Reinhart in 2013. Pelech, Bigras, and Reinhart in 2014. Would you take Nurse over them? I would.

  12. norm_klassen says:

    If rnh can make lucic work on his wing and get 50 points sure do that😮

  13. bwar says:

    Any word on Ryan Mantha? I know it was low odds of him ever recovering but has there been any actual updates recently? I feel like we’d hear about it if he had made any progress. Still rooting for him.

  14. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    norm_klassen:
    If rnh can make lucic work on his wing and get 50 points sure do that

    Lucic-RNH-Pool

    – If Lucic > 40 points, and Pool > 15 goals: that’s a Kinger Playoff Guarantee

    – Had the wheels not fallen off so hard on Lucic, and Pool progressed as someone so talented might have been expected, we wouldn’t be trying to get rid of Lucic and Pool for nuthin’ + and find guys to do what they ought to be doing. In a nutshell this is us.

  15. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Hey LT,

    Just curious, but where did you get your cap hits from? According to CapFriendly, the following don’t match. Your numbers are first, CF values in brackets.

    13 LD Dmitri Samorukov $855,833 ($825,000)
    14 LD Philip Broberg ($925,000)
    18 RD Joel Persson $750,000 ($1,000,000)
    37 LW Joe Gambardella $799,000 ($700,000)
    39 LW Ostap Safin $770,833 ($775,000)
    49 RW Kirill Maksimov $770,833 ($775,000)

  16. Louis Levasseur says:

    One of the things I wonder about is why hiring Dave Tippett will really make a difference? I understand he demands defensive structure, while allowing his offensive talent to still be creative. I’m sure the assistant coaches are awesome too. However, didn’t Hitchcock and McLellan preach the same stuff? Both of those guys have great NHL pedigree, maybe even more so than Tippett. This is not at meant to be a shot at Tippett. I like him and I’m positive about the Oilers (like I am every summer), but I guess I don’t see what he will get out of roster that 2 other great coaches couldn’t.

  17. Dustylegnd says:

    jtblack:
    Nurse article was interesting. Seems to me, Edm still doesnt know what they have in Nurse.

    What do they have in Nurse???….please enlighten me

  18. Reja says:

    Louis Levasseur:
    One of the things I wonder about is why hiring Dave Tippett will really make a difference?I understand he demands defensive structure, while allowing his offensive talent to still be creative.I’m sure the assistant coaches are awesome too.However, didn’t Hitchcock and McLellan preach the same stuff?Both of those guys have great NHL pedigree, maybe even more so than Tippett.This is not at meant to be a shot at Tippett.I like him and I’m positive about the Oilers (like I am every summer), but I guess I don’t see what he will get out ofroster that 2 other great coaches couldn’t.

    Hope springs eternal.

  19. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Louis Levasseur:
    One of the things I wonder about is why hiring Dave Tippett will really make a difference?It.

    – No one on this blog (or really anyone) has a clue. When Hitch came, it was over the top the fawning and admiration for him, how great he was, was going to turn Pool around, and how the systems were so much better, he saw dead people, etc

    – Hitch gave great press conferences, team ran hot for a bit, then they sucked again

    – There was one or two posters who said they weren’t buying what he was selling. They were right

    – Tippett will be fine and if the team doesn’t perform, he will have a lot of rope. If the team does well under him, he will be awesome coach, if they don’t make the playoffs, its because he got what he could out of a bad roster.

  20. Alpine says:

    Durag,

    Nylander is a worse player with similar issues.

  21. J-Bo says:

    Thanks for a recap on the 50 LT! I found it actually quite encouraging. I know that our NHL players aren’t where we want them to be, but I cant remember the last time it felt like we should have solid to exciting call ups across all positions. Bakersfield should be really good again this year and I’ll be interested to see how the call ups perform!

    P.S. Seriously OP? Seriously? Let it go man! Let it go!

  22. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Ferland to the canucks.

    Good pick up.

    Man.

  23. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    J-Bo:

    P.S. Seriously OP? Seriously? Let it go man! Let it go!

    – Semanitcs: LT’s point is that if Pool “signs” he is on the 50-man roster. They hope he signs, so they keep a spot on the 50 man roster. That’s what LT has done: reflecting practical reality

    – A lawyer: they charge by the hour to point out discrepancies, and “errors” : that’s their training

    – Reality vs Legality. I deal with lawyers all the time. This is what they do. Carry on. LT is the client and he’s told the lawyer this is how he wants it done: the lawyer keeps pushing back: fortunately he’s not charging his Bay Street rates for this push-back.

  24. GMB3 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – No one on this blog (or really anyone) has a clue.When Hitch came, it was over the top the fawning and admiration for him, how great he was, was going to turn Pool around, and how the systems were so much better, he saw dead people, etc

    – Hitch gave great press conferences, team ran hot for a bit, then they sucked again

    – There was one or two posters who said they weren’t buying what he was selling.They were right

    – Tippett will be fine and if the team doesn’t perform, he will have a lot of rope.If the team does well under him, he will be awesome coach, if they don’t make the playoffs, its because he got what he could out of a bad roster.

    He saw dead people? LOL

    I remember when Hitch was the second coming of the lord himself when Mikko Koskinen put up like a .970 save % over 10 games.

    What a time to be alive, the Hitch avatars on twitter were phenomenal. #Hitchmas

  25. GMB3 says:

    Dustylegnd: What do they have in Nurse???….please enlighten me

    A guy who’s about to be overpaid.

    Not a really great offensive dman, not a particularly strong defensive dman. Going to be paid like a 2-3 guy when he’s probably more of a 4-5. #bcuzoilers

  26. godot10 says:

    Please. Can we keep stop trying to trade Darnell Nurse. That is an idea guaranteed to end badly.

  27. godot10 says:

    razor:
    I think a lot of people (media) are worrying too much about this Puljujarvi thing. If Holland can’t find good value, there is no issue for Puljujarvi going to Europe for a year. I think it may be even better for his long term development. Watch any WJC highlights and you can tell this kid needs to play with high confidence level to succeed. Playing overseas might help him restore that confidence. Being a 4th overall pick, I don’t see him staying over there long and he’ll want to come back to try his luck in the bigs.

    Puljujarvi is not going to Europe for a year. He is waiver eligible. His agent is going to be nails-on-blackboard until the deal is done.

  28. Leonnor McDraivid says:

    Puljujarvi isn’t going anywhere. The agent prematurely popped off at the mouth and now he is backtracking. I honestly do not think that Jesse and his agent are completely on the same page. My best guess…Puljujarvi is back with the Oilers playing on a line with Haas and Jurco. The speed of this line would put opposing players on their heals and it would be a good puck possession line because defenders wouldn’t be able to defend that speed. My projected opening night roster:

    Kassian, McDavid, Draisaitl
    Nygard, Nuge, Buchnevich (Trade from NYR)
    Jurco, Haas/Brassard, Puljujarvi
    Khaira, Brassard/Haas, Chiasson (can move up and down the lineup accordingly)

    Klefbom, Larsson
    Nurse, Persson/Russell
    Jones, Benning

    I look at this line-up and I think it’s pretty good and if certain things go right like goaltending, then I believe this team can be a playoff team. The line-up is much faster and I would not make any major moves until next summer when the Oilers have the cap space to sign an elite winger and puck-moving defender.

  29. Dustylegnd says:

    GMB3: A guy who’s about to be overpaid.

    Not a really great offensive dman, not a particularly strong defensive dman. Going to be paid like a 2-3 guy when he’s probably more of a 4-5. #bcuzoilers

    I cant argue with you, would like to see him with a talented partner….not sure that happens this year

  30. jtblack says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Ferland to the canucks.

    Good pick up.

    Man.

    27 Year Old Power Forward who has cracked 20 Goals once. What could go wrong?

  31. Dustylegnd says:

    Leonnor McDraivid:
    Puljujarvi isn’t going anywhere. The agent prematurely popped off at the mouth and now he is backtracking. I honestly do not think that Jesse and his agent are completely on the same page. My best guess…Puljujarvi is back with the Oilers playing on a line with Haas and Jurco. The speed of this line would put opposing players on their heals and it would be a good puck possession line because defenders wouldn’t be able to defend that speed. My projected opening night roster:

    Kassian, McDavid, Draisaitl
    Nygard, Nuge, Buchnevich (Trade from NYR)
    Jurco, Haas/Brassard, Puljujarvi
    Khaira, Brassard/Haas, Chiasson (can move up and down the lineup accordingly)

    Klefbom, Larsson
    Nurse, Persson/Russell
    Jones, Benning

    I look at this line-up and I think it’s pretty good and if certain things go right like goaltending, then I believe this team can be a playoff team. The line-up is much faster and I would not make any major moves until next summer when the Oilers have the cap space to sign an elite winger and puck-moving defender.

    Who is going to score goals beyond the 3 STUDS??? I see a shit roster beyond our 5 best players…same as it ever was

  32. digger50 says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: Lucic-RNH-Pool

    – If Lucic > 40 points, and Pool > 15 goals: that’s a Kinger Playoff Guarantee

    – Had the wheels not fallen off so hard on Lucic, and Pool progressed as someone so talented might have been expected,we wouldn’t be trying to get rid of Lucic and Pool for nuthin’ + and find guys to do what they ought to be doing.In a nutshell this is us.

    I have an unsubstantiated opinion that Milan is one reason JP does not want to return. I understand this was not part of your point here, but just sharing.

  33. Dustylegnd says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – No one on this blog (or really anyone) has a clue.When Hitch came, it was over the top the fawning and admiration for him, how great he was, was going to turn Pool around, and how the systems were so much better, he saw dead people, etc

    – Hitch gave great press conferences, team ran hot for a bit, then they sucked again

    – There was one or two posters who said they weren’t buying what he was selling.They were right

    – Tippett will be fine and if the team doesn’t perform, he will have a lot of rope.If the team does well under him, he will be awesome coach, if they don’t make the playoffs, its because he got what he could out of a bad roster.

    Kinger I knew from the word go he was yesterdays man universally hated by every last player to ever play for the Fat Prick….but in his defense he was beating a dead horse just like Tip will be beating a slightly different dead horse

    We have no Tender

    We have no puck moving D men

    We have 0 secondary scoring

    Our PP is shit

    We have a lack of talent

  34. digger50 says:

    Dustylegnd: Kinger I knew from the word go he was yesterdays man universally hated by every last player to ever play for the Fat Prick….but in his defence he was beating a dead horde just like Tip will be beating a slightly different dead horse

    We have no Tender

    We have no puck moving D men

    We have 0 secondary scoring

    Our PP is shit

    We have a lack of talent

    Sorry, there are hundreds of players who have nothing but praise for the man.

  35. jtblack says:

    Dustylegnd: What do they have in Nurse???….please enlighten me

    I don’t know either Thats my point. LT’s article drill down and the results are mixed.

    Skewed to the high with McD on
    Skewed low with Russell.
    Had a Good year when partnered with Larsson.
    Isn’t considered a Good passer / thinker Yet put up 40 points.

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    “10 LD Brandon Manning. $2.25 million and then UFA. It makes sense to keep him on the roster as a No. 7D over a younger player who needs plenty of work. I don’t think he’ll play much in the NHL 2019-20.”

    ———————————–

    I don’t forsee Manning on the NHL roster to start the season but he should be OK injury cover. I agree he is a better option to sit in the pressbox over a guy like Jones but I think 6/7 on the team are likely Jones and Persson.

    I think we may see each of Jones, Persson, Benning and even Russell be rotated a bit in the 4-7 role.

    If they go with 7D and are rolling with a set 3 pairs then, yes, I agree, Manning in the pressbox over Persson but I’m not sure that will be the case.

  37. JimmyV1965 says:

    Louis Levasseur:
    One of the things I wonder about is why hiring Dave Tippett will really make a difference?I understand he demands defensive structure, while allowing his offensive talent to still be creative.I’m sure the assistant coaches are awesome too.However, didn’t Hitchcock and McLellan preach the same stuff?Both of those guys have great NHL pedigree, maybe even more so than Tippett.This is not at meant to be a shot at Tippett.I like him and I’m positive about the Oilers (like I am every summer), but I guess I don’t see what he will get out ofroster that 2 other great coaches couldn’t.

    This is not a playoff roster as it stands today. I think Holland and Tippet would agree if given some truth syrum. Coaches can only do so much.

  38. jtblack says:

    I beleived in the Hitchmas Miracle.

    Guilty as charged.

    It doesn’t take much to fool me.
    – a high draft pick
    – a new coach
    – next GM
    – a 3 Game Win Streak

    13 years and running.

  39. Dustylegnd says:

    digger50: Sorry, there are hundreds of players who have nothing but praise for the man.

    Dont be sorry, that’s what they say on the record…talk to people who played for him off the record…or talk to Brett Hull on the record…Hitch is not a nice person to play for he fucks with good people…I dont like his methods at all nor did most of the players that played for him in Jr and Pro

  40. JimmyV1965 says:

    godot10:
    Please.Can we keep stop trying to trade Darnell Nurse.That is an idea guaranteed to end badly.

    +1000

  41. OriginalPouzar says:

    “11 LD William Lagesson. $741,666 next season and RFA. He remains under the radar because of Jones, but the organization may feel he’s close as well.”

    —————————————-

    Original Pouzar thinks he’s close as well, check that, thinks he’s ready and will impact the game just as much, if not more than, Jones in the next few years.

    Adam Larsson/Jason Smith level of aggressive defending (maybe not quite as mean) but better skating and puck transition skills.

    22-23 min 2LD within a few years and fan favorite.

  42. godot10 says:

    Bohologo:
    I’m just here for the Exile on Main St. references; best song on the record.

    “The single greatest rock & roll record of all time, okay?Don’t send me any letters, and hold your calls.I can almost see you holding up and waving your Beatles records, your Pet Sounds, dusty old LPs in faded jackets, worthy contenders all, I am sure.Brilliant pop records, masterpieces even.But not the greatest, soulful, rock & roll record ever made.”-Bill Janovitz, Exile on Main St., 33 1/3 Series

    (Anyone who disagrees with this, let’s form the barn fight line just over there to the right.)

    I’m more of a punk than a scoundrel…

    London Calling

  43. Bag of Pucks says:

    Bohologo:
    I’m just here for the Exile on Main St. references; best song on the record.

    “The single greatest rock & roll record of all time, okay?Don’t send me any letters, and hold your calls.I can almost see you holding up and waving your Beatles records, your Pet Sounds, dusty old LPs in faded jackets, worthy contenders all, I am sure.Brilliant pop records, masterpieces even.But not the greatest, soulful, rock & roll record ever made.”-Bill Janovitz, Exile on Main St., 33 1/3 Series

    (Anyone who disagrees with this, let’s form the barn fight line just over there to the right.)

    It’s in my top 5 always and forever, but does it get an advantage being a double album?

    Led Zeppelin II, Dark Side of the Moon, Live at the Filmore, Badmotorfinger, Van Halen I, Appetite for Destruction, Brothers in Arms, Are you Experienced, etc. Classic rock has delivered so many singular masterpieces, there’s no way i could ever declare one the best. Too subjective.

  44. godot10 says:

    Durag:
    Want to hear my spicy take on Puljujarvi that is based on absolutely nothing? No? Too bad.

    Jesse strikes me as a guy for whom hockey has always been easy. He’s big, he’s gifted, he grew up playing in (on?) a small pond and dominated from the get go. Right up to the NHL, everything was easy. Then he got the NHL and it was hard. The NHL is hard for everyone, even McDavid. When things got hard, Jesse didn’t look in the mirror and say “what do I have to do to be better?”, Jesse looked around him and said “whose fault is it that things aren’t working out?”Jesse’s agent told him that he’s a very special boy and the Oilers mishandled his delicate genius and he needs to go to a team that understands him (and to be fair, there’s a kernel of truth to that).

    Therefore I would trade him for Eriksson-Ek, I would trade him for Bennet, I would have traded him for Nylander. I would take anyone who has a lower ceiling, but could be counted on to play a 3rd line NHL role for years to come. My bet is if Jesse goes to Europe, he doesn’t come back, and even if he gets a shot on another NHL team, he’s back in Europe by 25 regardless.

    Jesse’s ceiling may be high, but the elevator is broken and he’ll be damned if he’s taking the stairs.

    You seems to have forgotten the part about sitting most in the pressbox for the first half-season after he was drafted. Jesse had nothing to do with that. What kind of GM or coach does that?

  45. Pouzar says:

    Siderbar: Anyone here have any experiences with TappCar? Cheaper than Taxi? More convenient? Are the ride estimates accurate? How is Phone App?

    Cheers.

  46. godot10 says:

    Louis Levasseur:
    One of the things I wonder about is why hiring Dave Tippett will really make a difference?I understand he demands defensive structure, while allowing his offensive talent to still be creative.I’m sure the assistant coaches are awesome too.However, didn’t Hitchcock and McLellan preach the same stuff?Both of those guys have great NHL pedigree, maybe even more so than Tippett.This is not at meant to be a shot at Tippett.I like him and I’m positive about the Oilers (like I am every summer), but I guess I don’t see what he will get out ofroster that 2 other great coaches couldn’t.

    Hitchcock and McLellan tended to have strong ideas about offensive “structure”. Hitch…pound them till there knees are week. To McLellan…shoot first, think later, and place and chase.

    The Oilers were to slow and not really big enough to inflict Hitch’s punishment, and too slow to be successful with McLellan’s desire to give up the puck by shooting it or dumping it in the corner.

    I think Tippett will likely be more openminded offensively.

  47. Dustylegnd says:

    Bag of Pucks: It’s in my top 5 always and forever, but does it get an advantage being a double album?

    Led Zeppelin II, Dark Side of the Moon, Live at the Filmore, Badmotorfinger, Van Halen I, Appetite for Destruction, Brothers in Arms, Are you Experienced, etc. Classic rock has delivered so many singular masterpieces, there’s no way i could ever declare one the best. Too subjective.

    (Anyone who disagrees with this, let’s form the barn fight line just over there to the right.)

    Good thing you like Exile on main street Bag of Pucks or there may have been a Barn fight 😎

  48. OriginalPouzar says:

    I have Bear below both Jones and Persson as 3RD options at this point – nope, I haven’t seen Persson play but I do know his boots are better than Bear and, from what I saw of Bear last year, the struggles he had at the NHL level in the past continue to areas of the game he struggles in at the AHL level despite his great goal share numbers. Yes, Jones shoots left but has had (limited) success at 3RD in the NHL.

    Logan Day certainly earned that NHL contract but I’m not sure he’ll ever be a legit NHL option – his play away from the puck grew miles over the course of last season but there are still miles to go.

    I am 100% fine with Bouchard in the NHL by March (assuming he earns it) but not OK by November (even if he’s got 10 points in 14 games).

  49. godot10 says:

    Dustylegnd: What do they have in Nurse???….please enlighten me

    The worst case scenario is a physical Jay Bouwmeester who will play 20 minutes a game “forever”.

  50. OriginalPouzar says:

    I hope almost no hope of a Lucic trade – just too expensive.

    My hope is he bounces back this year to produce at Eriksson levels of offence – 12G/30P.

  51. OriginalPouzar says:

    “47 RW Kailer Yamamoto. $894,166 this year and next year then RFA. He has enough talent to rise quickly on this list, and I don’t buy the idea more time is needed. That said, he needs to show he can score goals in the NHL.”

    ——————————–

    I 100% think more time is needed – he was sent to the AHL last year because his game wasn’t yet NHL ready but didn’t get a chance to develop in the AHL due to injury.

    He has indeed shown that he is a high end player in the AHL – when he did gain traction last year he proved that, unfortunately the injuries hit him again.

    I think he needs to be assigned to Bakersfield for the beginning of the year and a non-option as a call-up until the turn of the calendar. Let him play 30 plus games, let him be an offensive star against men, enjoy playing hockey and then, assuming he’s rolling, he can be a call-up option.

    7-12 games before the call up just doesn’t provide enough benefit in my mind – let the 2nd year pro develop for a bit – he’s 22nd overall draft pick, not a top 5 pick – some real AHL time to develop should be expected and not thought of as a down arrow (unless he underperforms).

  52. LadiesloveSmid says:

    jtblack: 27 Year Old Power Forward who has cracked 20 Goals once.What could go wrong?

    Supposedly a 4 year deal. Lucic signed a 7 year deal @ 28.

    If he follows the same garbage disposal trajectory as Looch, they’d at least be out from under him at 31, not trying to dump his last 4 years like Edmonton is.

  53. Dustylegnd says:

    godot10: The worst case scenario is a physical Jay Bouwmeester who will play 20 minutes a game “forever”.

    Fair enough, I would love to see him get a Stud partner and Turn in to a later day Larry Robinson….why cant we have nice things too?

    Edit

    But then again we cant afford to have Darnell turn into a stud…..I just answered my own question

  54. Bag of Pucks says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – Semanitcs: LT’s point is that if Pool “signs” he is on the 50-man roster.They hope he signs, so they keep a spot on the 50 man roster.That’s what LT has done: reflecting practical reality

    – A lawyer: they charge by the hour to point out discrepancies, and “errors” : that’s their training

    – Reality vs Legality.I deal with lawyers all the time.This is what they do.Carry on.LT is the client and he’s told the lawyer this is how he wants it done: the lawyer keeps pushing back: fortunately he’s not charging his Bay Street rates for this push-back.

    Begs the question: does one become a lawyer because they’re argumentative by nature or does the training simply encourage it? I always lean to nature over nurture and that seems logical in this context. There’s no financial remuneration upside for OP arguing this point ad infinitum, so it’s arguing simply to insist on a point of contention (ie arguing for argument’s sake).

  55. jtblack says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Supposedly a 4 year deal. Lucic signed a 7 year deal @ 28.

    If he follows the same garbage disposal trajectory as Looch, they’d at least be out from under him at 31, not trying to dump his last 4 years like Edmonton is.

    4 yr term is a Great sign.

  56. GMB3 says:

    digger50: Sorry, there are hundreds of players who have nothing but praise for the man.

    I think a lot of guys think he’s a good teacher of the game, but a shitty coach to play for.

    From what I’ve been told by people more in the know than I am, is that some guys will love him, some guys will hate him. Same thing with Babcock. He’s a bit of a round hole square peg coach much like Mclellan was.

  57. GMB3 says:

    jtblack: 4 yr term is a Great sign.

    Is it? People on the blog were against signing Connolly for 4 years.

  58. Jaxon says:

    My neighbour across the street (another Oilers fan in Toronto) just texted me to tell me that Taylor Hall moved into their building for the summer.

  59. LadiesloveSmid says:

    GMB3: Is it? People on the blog were against signing Connolly for 4 years.

    I’d have taken either at $3.5M x 4 over Chiasson at $2.2

  60. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    GMB3: I think a lot of guys think he’s a good teacher of the game, but a shitty coach to play for.

    He’s a bit of a round hole square peg coach much like Mclellan was.

    Oh ,,, fuck. That worked so well last time. I was hopeful we had exited Groundhog Day.

  61. jtblack says:

    LadiesloveSmid: I’d have taken either at $3.5M x 4 over Chiasson at $2.2

    +1. Edm Badly needss true Top 6 players. I think Ferland and Connolly would have been upgrades. I would have loved it if Connolly signed in Edm not to be

    I am less bullish on Ferland. But @ 4 yrs prob a good sign by Van.

  62. Ben says:

    Jaxon:
    My neighbour across the street (another Oilers fan in Toronto) just texted me to tell me that Taylor Hall moved into their building for the summer.

    Jalen Rose says he’s staying!!

  63. who says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    “11 LD William Lagesson. $741,666 next season and RFA. He remains under the radar because of Jones, but the organization may feel he’s close as well.”

    —————————————-

    Original Pouzar thinks he’s close as well, check that, thinks he’s ready and will impact the game just as much, if not more than, Jones in the next few years.

    Adam Larsson/Jason Smith level of aggressive defending (maybe not quite as mean) but better skating and puck transition skills.

    22-23 min 2LD within a few years and fan favorite.

    Whoa there OP. I know you like Lagesson but stating he has better skating and puck transition skills than Larrson is a little over the top.
    You’ve seen him play some games in the AHL. How do you think Larsson would look against similar competition? If Lagesson really was as good as you say he is, he would already be in the NHL

  64. Coiler says:

    Sucks that the team isn’t in on the free agent market in full force but this team’s reality is just that. No cap room.

    Next year will be different though, right?

  65. GMB3 says:

    LadiesloveSmid: I’d have taken either at $3.5M x 4 over Chiasson at $2.2

    For sure. And then Holland has actually changed something… We know Connolly is a great third liner who at least has the potential to blossom into a real value contract at 3.5 with a much different opportunity in Edmonton than he had in Washington. Chiasson having a career year and an unsustainable year doesn’t move the needle.

  66. Admiral Ackbar says:

    Ben:
    *OP pushes glasses up nose*

    Uhhh, actually, Puljujarvi doesn’t technically HAVE a contract and so should appear on the 90-man reserve list and not the 50-man list, which is expressly reserved for players who have signed standard player contracts.

    *fansplaining complete*

    Hahahahaha!! I tip my hat to you, sir.

    That made my morning!! Because he did it anyway! Our good ‘ol friend Dunning-Kruger makes an early morning appearance.

  67. Jaxon says:

    godot10: The worst case scenario is a physical Jay Bouwmeester who will play 20 minutes a game “forever”.

    And best case scenario is a Chara, Pronger, Burns, Byfuglien, Chelios, Stevens, Weber type player who will play 25 physical minutes a game “forever”.

  68. russ99 says:

    Louis Levasseur,

    I tend to think Tippett will make a difference, due to his personality and player communication skills (why Hitch failed) and how his teams play as 5 man unit at both ends of the ice, which we haven’t seen much of here since MacTavish was coach.

  69. ArmchairGM says:

    Dustylegnd: Fair enough, I would love to see him get a Stud partner and Turn in to a later day Larry Robinson….why cant we have nice things too?

    Edit

    But then again we cant afford to have Darnell turn into a stud…..I just answered my own question

    Bouchard will turn Nurse into a stud, but it won’t happen this year so we won’t have to pay him stud money. Nurse at $6M + is certainly affordable.

  70. ArmchairGM says:

    jtblack: 27 Year Old Power Forward who has cracked 20 Goals once.What could go wrong?

    Meh. They could have had Lucic at 50% off, why sign the cheap imitation?

  71. Bulging Twine says:

    I’m surprised that Ferland only got 3.5. He must have went for the term over AAV. Maybe his injuries, shoulder and concussions I believe, have him worried. Let’s see how many games he plays this season.

    5×5 P/60 and P1/60 last two years:

    1.68 1.54 (led Carolina) – only 2 second assists hurt his P/60
    2.06 1.82 only 4 second assists, apparently he’s not a 2nd assist guy

    edit: He seems to play on one of the top lines (with Gaudreau and Monahan in CGY) but looking at his 5×5 ice time he avg’d 6th in CGY and 9th in CAR.
    3.5 is great value if he’s a top 6 guy, okay if he’s a 3rd liner. He’s being paid like a 3rd liner

    He was a wrecking ball in the playoffs for CGY against VCR in 2015.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMrNRlLne8Y
    They remember that I’m sure.
    That was the final playoff for that VCR team that had previous playoff success. They looked old, weak and slow and that was all she wrote for that crew.
    (if you don’t like Bieksa, you’ll like those highlights – repeatedly annihilated by Ferland – actually all of the VCR D)

    But these shoulder/head injuries surely will slow the physical play down. iirc his last two injuries incurred while doling out hits.
    These type of players don’t age too well.

  72. Primetime says:

    jtblack: 4 yr term is a Great sign.

    Discouraging signing for a few reasons:

    – will likely help the Nucks be better, at least in the first few years (barring injury)
    – media all speculated that in the wake of Johansson having to take 2 years, that the rest of the UFAs will have to settle for less money AND less term. So long to the theory that Dzingel will HAVE to take a 1 or 2 year contract
    – this likely shuts the door on any Lucic trade to Vancouver…no longer needed

  73. knighttown says:

    Dustylegnd: Who is going to score goals beyond the 3 STUDS??? I see a shit roster beyond our 5 best players…same as it ever was

    I think it’s worse than this because if I was offered the over/under on any of the Big 3 reaching last years totals, since there have been zero upgrades, I’d take the under.

    – Connor has played almost perfect hockey the last two seasons. Even if he was healthy it would impossible to predict improvement and he’s leg injury isn’t nothing.
    – Leon scoring 50 is beyond anyone’s wildest dreams and again, it was in part because 97 played perfect hockey. Even if 97 was healthy I’d expect a slide for 29 back to around 40 goals…but again, I’m not sure 97 is healthy
    – 28 goals and 69 points for 93; playing with absolutely no one seems to be high. I’d consider giving him 65 points if he remains on PP1 but I don’t see him as a 30 goal threat

    We had two hopes heading into the season:
    1. A finally healthy Sekera unlocking the forwards
    2. Upgrading the worst wingers in the NHL

    Both of those real and true hopes are gone unless we add a forward here soon.

  74. JimmyV1965 says:

    Coiler:
    Sucks that the team isn’t in on the free agent market in full force but this team’s reality is just that. No cap room.

    Next year will be different though, right?

    I hope they are never in the free agent market in full force. That can only mean trouble.

  75. godot10 says:

    GMB3: Is it? People on the blog were against signing Connolly for 4 years.

    Lucic has Connolly’s and Ferland’s money on the Oilers, and then some. The Oilers could afford Connollly and Ferland at those terms if they didn’t have Lucic. The opportunity cost of Lucic is two top nine forwards.for four more damn effing years.

  76. godot10 says:

    Coiler:
    Sucks that the team isn’t in on the free agent market in full force but this team’s reality is just that. No cap room.

    Next year will be different though, right?

    Nope. Lucic will have 3 more years. Russell, one.

  77. godot10 says:

    ArmchairGM: Bouchard will turn Nurse into a stud, but it won’t happen this year so we won’t have to pay him stud money. Nurse at $6M + is certainly affordable.

    The D market is being reset this year. Karlsson at 11. Trouba, McAvoy, Werenski to come.

    Myers getting six million re-inforces it.

    The Oilers should have offered him near $6 million x 8 last year as I was advocating. Nurse is going to ask for 5 x $7 million at least next year.

  78. LadiesloveSmid says:

    They’ll still be paying Sekera+Pouliot more NEXT season than Ferland or Connolly will be getting paid.

    $6M for Lucic, $4M for Russell, $4.1M for buyouts. $14.1M that could be replicated by $3M in budget players. Chiarelli you artiste

  79. Andy Dufresne says:

    #keepinghopealive

    From LT, “Ken Holland isn’t done shopping, based on his own verbal. Jesse Puljujarvi is in play”

    Stauffer opened his show today with news that Jesse’s Agent is walking back his comments; Stating that neither he nor Jessie ever “publicly” to be traded.

    The agent goes on to say that he just thinks that a new start might be the thing Jesse needs right now.

    He and Jesse have had conversation that included things like:

    “Jessie and I have had lots of conversations about this, and have we have considered the idea that a new coach (and GM) could certainly help the situation” but that “” we are worried that if we try another year with the Oilers and early on in the year it is evident that things are still not working, then what?”

    Anyway, he has certainly toned things down, so much so, that I got the impression that they would still consider staying with the Oilers under the right circumstances.

    They probably still prefer a fresh start.

    ” So, you’re saying theres a chance then” 🙂

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ben:
    *OP pushes glasses up nose*

    Uhhh, actually, Puljujarvi doesn’t technically HAVE a contract and so should appear on the 90-man reserve list and not the 50-man list, which is expressly reserved for players who have signed standard player contracts.

    Agreed!

    The player does not have a contract and (1) it seems he’s unlikely to have one with the Oilers this year and (2) there is a solid chance that the player won’t “turn in to a contract for this year” (he may be traded for a player with a contract but he also may not play, head to Europe to play or be traded for a pick or non-contract player (or combo).

    I now digress….. for now.

  81. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ben:

    If there’s any chance of the team being significantly better, they’ll need a couple of three things to happen:

    1) Holland to win a big trade

    2) Tippett to cast a PDO spell

    3) The kids to step up**

    **”The kids to step up” is a Trademark owned wholly by the Edmonton Oilers, any use of term is forbidden without expressed written consent from the Oilers Entertainment Group.

    I think the biggest factor is performance of the goaltenders – somewhat related to point 2.

  82. Andy Dufresne says:

    jtblack:
    I beleived in the Hitchmas Miracle.

    Guilty as charged.

    It doesn’t take much to fool me.
    – a high draft pick
    – a new coach
    – next GM
    – a 3 Game Win Streak

    13 years and running.

    lol Nice. I resemble this remark.

  83. Reja says:

    russ99: He

    That’s the spirit fuk the doom and gloom woe is me. Chase going to smash the over- under on his goals. Kosh and Smith the best Dynamic duo since Moog and Fuhr

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    YKOil:
    A-hem.To be clear, Pulju has a contract, the qualifying offer, that he can activate at any time until such time as his status, as to where he is playing, is determined or the qualifying offer expires..

    Until such time, to list him anywhere BUT the 50 player is irresponsible.The technicality is over-ruled by the reality in this case.

    Keep doing what you are doing LT, you have the right of it.

    I’m sorry but it is incorrect to say that Puljujarvi has a contract. He does not have a contract. He has an offer for a contract that he can sign and turn it in to a contract but, as of today, he has no contract.

    As I state above, its unlikely that he will have a contract with the Oilers this season. This isn’t like qualifying Khaira were its all but certain he’s going to sign with the Oilers. Its almost the opposite where its all but certain Puljujarvi is not going to sign with the Oilers.

    As I said, there is a chance the assets turns in to a contract that hits the 50 but it very well may not.

    Also, even if Jesse was happy with the Oilers and looking forward to this season with the Oilers, it is unlikely that he’d accept his QO as he’d want/demand something higher than the QO – likely Khaira money if not more.

    The Oilers currently have 48 contracts with two almost certain to slide.

    They could add more – they could trade Jesse for a contract.

    They could also trade next year’s 2nd round pick for a contract…….

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    KingerOil: – No one on this blog (or really anyone) has a clue.When Hitch came, it was over the top the fawning and admiration for him, how great he was, was going to turn Pool around, and how the systems were so much better, he saw dead people, etc

    – Hitch gave great press conferences, team ran hot for a bit, then they sucked again

    – There was one or two posters who said they weren’t buying what he was selling.They were right

    – Tippett will be fine and if the team doesn’t perform, he will have a lot of rope.If the team does well under him, he will be awesome coach, if they don’t make the playoffs, its because he got what he could out of a bad roster.

    I was definitely unsure on Hitch when hired but bought what he was selling during his pressers – they were definitely amazing.

    Of course, he proceeding to do things that, in some cases, were the exact opposite of what he said he would (or wouldn’t) do……

    The one thing this organization and the fans should always be thankful to Hitich for is what he did for Drai. He turned Drai in to an inconsistent effort player that, while elite offensively (even without McDavid), leaked too much defensively.

    From accounts, Hitch was very hard on Drai but it worked and he popped. For the last few months of the season, Drai’s power forward game and effort was there, game in and game out and shift in and shift out and his 200-foot game, his positioning and effort, my goodness did it improve.

    Drai became a superstar under Hitch.

    My concern is regression on the consistency and 200-foot game. I sure hope not.

  86. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    jtblack,

    – Hey, I’m not hatin’, just participatin’.

    – But the whole Hitch “reboot” made me realize that we are all just clowns. Whatever Tippett does next year as coach, I’m ready for the whole range, and none would surprise me: from not making the playoffs, to having it all click and being the guy and being really good. to anything in between.

    – i believe in luck, and timing and randomness as what matters most: see Tampa vs Blues

    – For Fun, here is some of the “takes” re: Hitch: Really no one has a clue: We generally react to results and fill in a narrative: recency bias: (posters names removed to preserve anonymity…!)

    The puck support below the dots in the dzone is like watching a new team

    Hitch has changed the team D structure,
    Saved Talbot
    Pulled the season from the brink,

    Hitch is the best. Also he could have been the coach 10 years ago.

    Who knew changing from man to man to zone defense could make such a difference. The inability to change strategy and go no further than blendering only a select group of forwards around

    The Oilers under Hitch are playing to win whereas under TMac they were playing not to lose

    All aboard the Hitchcock Express

    The trek out of the wilderness. Hitch is once again writing in letters of gold

    That’s not just “playoff team” numbers.
    That’s “Cup Contender” numbers.

    Don’t look now but the Oilers are morphing into a team

    If you needed any more evidence that Hitch is either The Pope or a miracle worker (or both)

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    JBo:
    Thanks for a recap on the 50 LT! I found it actually quite encouraging. I know that our NHL players aren’t where we want them to be, but I cant remember the last time it felt like we should have solid to exciting call ups across all positions. Bakersfield should be really good again this year and I’ll be interested to see how the call ups perform!

    P.S. Seriously OP? Seriously? Let it go man! Let it go!

    I think its going to be massive that, for he first time in, well, I’m not sure how long, there should be actual NHL ready skilled players.in the AHL waiting for a call-up. This is moreso on the back-end but, to me, that’s where its even more important.

    Sure, these players are likely only ready to truly play on the 3rd pairing so injuries to the top 4 will still create issues (in particular without Sekera here to cover), however, at least the player(s) coming in as injury replacement should be legit NHL players (or very close thereto) and young players with skill and talent.

  88. OriginalPouzar says:

    KingerOil: – Semanitcs: LT’s point is that if Pool “signs” he is on the 50-man roster.They hope he signs, so they keep a spot on the 50 man roster.That’s what LT has done: reflecting practical reality

    They also hope that Dzingel signs (or someone similar or someone else) but he hasn’t so he doesn’t get a spot on the 50 saved for him.

    Absolutely, if this was a normal course RFA that hadn’t signed yet but we all but know will sign and be on the team in October (like Khaira a few weeks ago), then, yes, for sure, list the player because he’s essentially taking up the spot. That isn’t the case here as the circumstance is special as the player has all but stated he’s not going to sign with the Oilers.

    Its probably more likely that Dzingel has a contract with the Oilers this year than Puljujarvi. I hope Jesse does a 180 and he’s an Oiler in October but its seems very unlikely.

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    GMB/a>: A guy who’s about to be overpaid.

    Not a really great offensive dman, not a particularly strong defensive dman. Going to be paid like a 2-3 guy when he’s probably more of a 4-5. #bcuzoilers

    His 5 on 5 production over a solid period of time, almost three seasons, where he is near the top 10 in the NHL, suggests otherwise.

    Yes, I know, he doesn’t seem to have great offensive instincts, his production seems out if line with the eye test, however, after 2.5 seasons of higher end 5 on 5 production, it starts not to matter how he looks or why he produces but simply to acknowledge that he does produce – consistently.

    Yes, I’m sure there is some McDavid zooming but the top 5 on 5 scoring d-men in the league are all zoomed by ice with their team’s start players and, well, the other Oilers d-men certainly aren’t producing at 5 on 5 despite time with McDavid.

    He’s going to get paid, that’s for sure, however to state that he’ll be overpaid is an unkown right now.

    If its $6.75M X 7-8, is that overpaid? Given current market, I’ll take that and run.

    if its $8M X 8 then, sure, that’s different but we just don’t know.

  90. Bulging Twine says:

    -Hitch’s press conference glory got a boost from being so much better than what was experienced previously.

    -The turnaround in play was great. The breakout was better. He made a third line out of Brodziak, Lucic and Kassian that seemed to be influential. People were getting roles. Then he did what so many coaches do and out coach themselves by changing the lines around. “I’m trying to find another line” or something he said, but he was changing ALL the lines. In came identity confusion. Unclarity (inclarity? disclarity? nonclarity? a lack of clarity?) on roles. All momentum gained was lost.

  91. blainer says:

    knighttown: I think it’s worse than this because if I was offered the over/under on any of the Big 3 reaching last years totals, since there have been zero upgrades, I’d take the under.

    – Connor has played almost perfect hockey the last two seasons. Even if he was healthy it would impossible to predict improvement and he’s leg injury isn’t nothing.
    – Leon scoring 50 is beyond anyone’s wildest dreams and again, it was in part because 97 played perfect hockey. Even if 97 was healthy I’d expect a slide for 29 back to around 40 goals…but again, I’m not sure 97 is healthy
    – 28 goals and 69 points for 93; playing with absolutely no one seems to be high.I’d consider giving him 65 points if he remains on PP1 but I don’t see him as a 30 goal threat

    We had two hopes heading into the season:
    1. A finally healthy Sekera unlocking the forwards
    2. Upgrading the worst wingers in the NHL

    Both of those real and true hopes are gone unless we add a forward here soon.

    I always stay optimistic when doing Hunters death march and always predict playoff’s. There is no way this team is making the playoffs as it’s currently constructed.

    We absolutely have to trade for a top six player who can score. Not sure what that would take but it has to happen or it will be another shit show of a season. This is a major crime that the best player in the world has been subjected to such irresponsible management.

    It makes it somewhat worse that management keeps changing so they haven’t had to endure all the losing. If it were me I am trading the 2020 first rounder ..lottery protected ..and by that I mean if we don’t make the playoff’s the pick becomes a 2021 pick along with JP and one of our top prospect D as well as a small salary dump to make the numbers work to get this done.

    Let’s stop this losing and make a good hockey deal FFS..

  92. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    OriginalPouzar: They also hope that Dzingel signs (or someone similar or someone else) but he hasn’t so he doesn’t get a spot on the 50 saved for him.

    Absolutely, if this was a normal course RFA that hadn’t signed yet but we all but know will sign and be on the team in October (like Khaira a few weeks ago), then, yes, for sure, list the player because he’s essentially taking up the spot. That isn’t the case here as the circumstance is special as the player has all but stated he’s not going to sign with the Oilers.

    Its probably more likely that Dzingel has a contract with the Oilers this year than Puljujarvi. I hope Jesse does a 180 and he’s an Oiler in October but its seems very unlikely.

    – I love this! You don’t “get” it. Your arguing semanctics.

    – The client, LT: he wants reality reflected. We don’t “”own” Dzingel. We “own” Pool’s rights, and because we want them is a false argument you angling.

    – So again, “legally” you are correct: but devoid from reality, and an excellent technique is to take a nonsense argument and frame it as legalese., using my words against me to frame it..

    – If you were writing a prospectus for me and I client, like all lawyers: I’d say: thanks for your consideration, now write it the way its going to be. And after a bunch of pushing back and “technical” speak, the lawyer would always (but smug in the knowledge that the lawyer was “right” and the bozo client didn’t listen to his expertise), It doesn’t matter as a practical thing. LT is right.

    – What you don’t get is that this is Lowetide’s 50-man list: it is not the one submitted to the NHL to be held up in a court of law: its a plain language disclosure to his clients: that is not binding. He is right

    – I hope you don’t take offence to my characterization: certainly lawyers don’t when I go through this with them…

  93. pts2pndr says:

    Louis Levasseur:
    One of the things I wonder about is why hiring Dave Tippett will really make a difference?I understand he demands defensive structure, while allowing his offensive talent to still be creative.I’m sure the assistant coaches are awesome too.However, didn’t Hitchcock and McLellan preach the same stuff?Both of those guys have great NHL pedigree, maybe even more so than Tippett.This is not at meant to be a shot at Tippett.I like him and I’m positive about the Oilers (like I am every summer), but I guess I don’t see what he will get out ofroster that 2 other great coaches couldn’t.

    MacLellan had preconceived ideas of what he required and the player had to fit the profile. He was never able to adjust the plan to the players he had to work with. Hitchcock on the other had a JP that was not 100% healthy and therefore unable to play the way Hitch wanted.

  94. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar: His 5 on 5 production over a solid period of time, almost three seasons, where he is near the top 10 in the NHL, suggests otherwise.

    Yes, I know, he doesn’t seem to have great offensive instincts, his production seems out if line with the eye test, however, after 2.5 seasons of higher end 5 on 5 production, it starts not to matter how he looks or why he produces but simply to acknowledge that he does produce – consistently.

    Yes, I’m sure there is some McDavid zooming but the top 5 on 5 scoring d-men in the league are all zoomed by ice with their team’s start players and, well, the other Oilers d-men certainly aren’t producing at 5 on 5 despite time with McDavid.

    He’s going to get paid, that’s for sure, however to state that he’ll be overpaid is an unkown right now.

    If its $6.75M X 7-8, is that overpaid?Given current market, I’ll take that and run.

    if its $8M X 8 then, sure, that’s different but we just don’t know.

    7 million for a guy who can’t run positive gf% in the top 4 without help. His RAPM chart doesn’t look great either. Negative effect on expected goals against, barely negative effect on xGF.

  95. godot10 says:

    With a QO, Puljujarvi holds an option on a contract with the Edmonton Oilers. Until Puljujarvi makes a decision on what he is going to do with that option, I think the Oilers have to account for it on their books from a planning point of view as a contract

    i.e. The Oiler “sold” a call option on an NHL contract to Puljujarvit with a QO. If they account for it, it is a covered call. If they don’t, it is an uncovered call.

  96. McSorley33 says:

    Dustylegnd,

    I cant argue with you, would like to see him with a talented partner….not sure that happens this year
    ***************************************************************************************************
    Novel idea….been saddled with Russell for a LONG time….

    But, many would love to trade him…where he might actually play with a legitimate top
    4 dman and then…well that wold be silly.

    Outside of Edmonton, I bet a few GM’s could picture Darnell – doing okay – with a real partner.

  97. Richard Roma says:

    Bag of Pucks: Begs the question: does one become a lawyer because they’re argumentative by nature or does the training simply encourage it? I always lean to nature over nurture and that seems logical in this context. There’s no financial remuneration upside for OP arguing this point ad infinitum, so it’s arguing simply to insist on a point of contention (ie arguing for argument’s sake).

    It’s a combination of rigid thinking with some obsessive tendencies sprinkled in.

  98. defmn says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – I love this!You don’t “get” it.Your arguing semanctics.

    – The client, LT: he wants reality reflected.We don’t “”own” Dzingel.We “own” Pool’s rights, and because we want them is a false argument you angling.

    – So again, “legally” you are correct: but devoid from reality, and an excellent technique is to take a nonsense argument and frame it as legalese., using my words against me to frame it..

    – If you were writing a prospectus for me and I client, like all lawyers: I’d say: thanks for your consideration, now write it the way its going to be.And after a bunch of pushing back and “technical” speak, the lawyer would always (but smug in the knowledge that the lawyer was “right” and the bozo client didn’t listen to his expertise),It doesn’t matter as a practical thing.LT is right.

    – What you don’t get is that this is Lowetide’s 50-man list: it is not the one submitted to the NHL to be held up in a court of law: its a plain language disclosure to his clients: that is not binding.He is right

    – I hope you don’t take offence to my characterization: certainly lawyers don’t when I go through this with them…

    I spent the last 10 years of my working life with 2 accountants and a lawyer as my business partners. To this day I have no idea what I did wrong in a previous life to deserve that but reading OP’s comments on the 50 player list is giving me flashbacks. 😉

  99. Bag of Pucks says:

    Interesting to compare the Ferland and Chaisson contracts.

    Roughly the same age and nearly identical GPG in the dance.

    Did the Nucks just buy high again? Ferland zoomed by Gaudreau. Chiasson by McDavid.

  100. McSorley33 says:

    digger50,

    I have an unsubstantiated opinion that Milan is one reason JP does not want to return. I understand this was not part of your point here, but just sharing.
    *****************************************************************************************************
    You could probably say the same for many season ticket holders….

  101. Bulging Twine says:

    https://oilersnation.com/2019/07/10/jesse-puljujarvi-agent-im-not-sure-jesse-is-going-to-go-back-to-europe/

    -from gregor on Jesse

    concerning to me is the allegations of a lack of SUPPORT and HELP for a player to develop.

    sure we can dwindle his comments down to whining, posturing, or say, “why did it work for others then” etc but the fact remains that the agent of a 4th overall pick is saying that his player didn’t get enough support and help to develop by the Edmonton Oilers.

    If true that is incredibly unacceptable in the world of professional sports in 2019

    I wonder if there is support for the lower picks and kind of an assumption for the higher picks. “Well, he’s a 4th (or 1st) overall, of course he’ll make it” and that they don’t need support. It’s almost a sink or swim effect, perhaps unintended. And when they don’t make it there is shock and horror and then of course blame because it’s all public and it’s not my fault it’s yours. And your radio guy comes out and name calls/not name calls the player.

    An adversarial ‘prove it to me’ relationship rather than a ‘we’, a developmental nurturing relationship.

  102. Bag of Pucks says:

    defmn: I spent the last 10 years of my working life with 2 accountants and a lawyer as my business partners. To this day I have no idea what I did wrong in a previous life to deserve that but reading OP’s comments on the 50 player list is giving me flashbacks.

    Hugely valuable advice I received from my father-in-law on the merits of arguing something to death.

    “Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy?”

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    LeonnorMcDraivid:
    Puljujarvi isn’t going anywhere. The agent prematurely popped off at the mouth and now he is backtracking. I honestly do not think that Jesse and his agent are completely on the same page. My best guess…Puljujarvi is back with the Oilers playing on a line with Haas and Jurco. The speed of this line would put opposing players on their heals and it would be a good puck possession line because defenders wouldn’t be able to defend that speed. My projected opening night roster:

    One though is “yes, speed on that line will lead to success”, however, there is another way to look at it as being a line with 3 non-NHL established players…..

  104. Bulging Twine says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Interesting to compare the Ferland and Chaisson contracts.

    Roughly the same age and nearly identical GPG in the dance.

    Did the Nucks just buy high again? Ferland zoomed by Gaudreau. Chiasson by McDavid.

    Could be. Do we know who he played with last year?

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    The cap hits on both Myers and Ferland were, surprisingly, and disappointingly, reasonable.

    The trade protection for Ferland is a bit much for a secondary player but somewhat par for the course.

    I do think Myers will be asked to play above his established levels in Vancouver (he’s really been a 4/-5 guy in Winnipeg) but maybe he’ll run with the opportunity – hope not.

    One additional point I just realized – with his NMC, they’ll have to protect Ferland in the expansion draft which is a big deal, in particular if his concussion history continues…..

  106. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Bulging Twine,

    This seems like a mature quote from Jesse’s camp:

    “So when you draft a guy, even if he’s a high, high, high pick and expectations are really high, you kind of have to help these guys to become as good an athlete and player as they can be, right? They need support and help. Not just like, ‘Well, we drafted you, you do whatever we want, right?’. That’s the way I see it, how it should be, right? It’s a two-way street. It’s up to the athlete too. It’s not just a one-way street,” said Lehto.”

    – It goes back to semantics. In this case, the Oilers think they are “right” but it doesn’t matter. They are clearly wrong. Jessie is the client, but we have the Oil arguing with him, telling him he doesn’t listen, and he needs to be taught lessons. No one is listening to him, and he “owns some of it”. And if the Oil don’t figure it out, they will lose their “client”

    – I kind of think that Holland might be able to pull this off.

    – If Holland is able to rebuild Jesse, and Jesse comes back and scores 15 with say RNH, then I will shut my moudth, like I ought to have and just watched the Home Run Derby

  107. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: His 5 on 5 production over a solid period of time, almost three seasons, where he is near the top 10 in the NHL, suggests otherwise.

    Yes, I know, he doesn’t seem to have great offensive instincts, his production seems out if line with the eye test, however, after 2.5 seasons of higher end 5 on 5 production, it starts not to matter how he looks or why he produces but simply to acknowledge that he does produce – consistently.

    Yes, I’m sure there is some McDavid zooming but the top 5 on 5 scoring d-men in the league are all zoomed by ice with their team’s start players and, well, the other Oilers d-men certainly aren’t producing at 5 on 5 despite time with McDavid.

    He’s going to get paid, that’s for sure, however to state that he’ll be overpaid is an unkown right now.

    If its $6.75M X 7-8, is that overpaid?Given current market, I’ll take that and run.

    if its $8M X 8 then, sure, that’s different but we just don’t know.

    Have you read the comments on LT’s article on Nurse over at the athletic? It’s a shitstorm of negativity. Man do I hate Oilers fans.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dustylegnd: Kinger I knew from the word go he was yesterdays man universally hated by every last player to ever play for the Fat Prick….but in his defense he was beating a dead horse just like Tip will be beating a slightly different dead horse

    We have no Tender

    We have no puck moving D men

    We have 0 secondary scoring

    Our PP is shit

    We have a lack of talent

    Tender is a big risk – at the same time, both our tenders have shown an ability to get hot at the NHL level for periods of time. Smith had a bad year but he was Conn Smyth Caliber in the playoffs – maybe, just maybe, one of the two is generally “hot” at most times and we do get decent tending from the tandem? probably not.

    Klef is currently healthy, Persson may be in the lineup, Jones may be in the lineup, Bouchard will likely get some time at some point. Yes, Russell/Larsson in the top 4 doesn’t help transition, however, there is going to be a bit more skill/talent at the bottom to help

    The PP was 10th or 11th in the NHL last year – it very well could have a better PP presence on the blueline with Persson and, at some point, Bouchard (maybe Bear – his shot is very good but I don’t see him NHL ready – I don’t really see Jones as a great PP guy).

  109. Side says:

    ArmchairGM: Have you read the comments on LT’s article on Nurse over at the athletic? It’s a shitstorm of negativity. Man do I hate Oilers fans.

    *something something Cactus something something Club*

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot: You seems to have forgotten the part about sitting most in the pressbox for the first half-season after he was drafted.Jesse had nothing to do with that.What kind of GM or coach does that?

    The one who has had the player’s agent require the team to guarantee he’d be on the roster for 40 games to accrue a year towards UFA or the player wouldn’t sign/come over (and then the player wasn’t good enough to play in the lineup nightly)?

  111. Bulging Twine says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    Bulging Twine,

    This seems like a mature quote from Jesse’s camp:

    “So when you draft a guy, even if he’s a high, high, high pick and expectations are really high, you kind of have to help these guys to become as good an athlete and player as they can be, right? They need support and help…..” said Lehto.”

    That’s a killer

  112. commonfan29 says:

    I’m not sure what it is exactly that a talented young forward has to do to EARN top-6 and powerplay time in Oilerland – I’d love to hear them define it sometime.

    Based on the last 10 years though, it seems to have at least something to do with being able to speak English with great fluency.

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    BagofPucks: Begs the question: does one become a lawyer because they’re argumentative by nature or does the training simply encourage it? I always lean to nature over nurture and that seems logical in this context. There’s no financial remuneration upside for OP arguing this point ad infinitum, so it’s arguing simply to insist on a point of contention (ie arguing for argument’s sake).

    Who is arguing? I’m discussing matters related to the Oilers.

    I provided my opinion, others disagree and provide their, I respond with my reasoning, etc., etc. – its called dialogue/conversation. If you, or anyone, doesn’t like the substance of that conversation, feel free to move on. At the same time, if community members choose to respond to my posts, I will continue to have dialogue with them.

    I read all sorts of conversations on this forum that I don’t care about (music) or that have been going on for much longer than anything I talk about (Hall trade, re-hashing how bad Chiarelli was, etc.).

    As an aside, I do almost no arguing in my job – I litigate nothing. I negotiate business and financial deals.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: 4 yr term is a Great sign.

    Full NMC requiring expansion protection is risky

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    LadiesloveSmid: I’d have taken either at $3.5M x 4 over Chiasson at $2.2

    Would you have given Ferland the NMC for a must-protect in the expansion draft – that would have been a deal-breaker for me.

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: Whoa there OP. I know you like Lagesson but stating he has better skating and puck transition skills than Larrson is a little over the top.
    You’ve seen him play some games in the AHL. How do you think Larsson would look against similar competition? If Lagesson really was as good as you say he is, he would already be in the NHL

    I’m not saying he’s there now but. yes, he’s a better skater and transitioner of the puck by pass than Larsson. He hasn’t done it at the NHL level, yet, but I think he will surpass Larsson in those areas.

    Just like Bouchard is a better PP guy than Larsson – he hasn’t shown it at the NHL level but I’m pretty sure he’s going to develop in to that player at the NHL level.

  117. pts2pndr says:

    GMB3: 7 million for a guy who can’t run positive gf% in the top 4 without help. His RAPM chart doesn’t look great either. Negative effect on expected goals against, barely negative effect on xGF.

    Reality is he should have been signed long term instead of the bridge contract. Bridge contracts are for players who have maxed out their potential. Money saved on the bridge almost always costs the team more money moving forward. If Nurse’s contract moving forward is high that is on management. They made the bet and lost. Many on this site were all in on the bridge for Nurse. The common belief was let him earn it first. Seem the chickens have come home to roost so to speak. It is now time to pay up or shut up.

  118. leadfarmer says:

    Nurse is the points vampire everyone claimed Faulk was.
    He needs to get a lot better in his own end for me to pay him the 7 per he will want.
    7 mil d man should be able to own his pairing especially second pairing.

  119. Darth Tu says:

    leadfarmer:
    Nurse is the points vampire everyone claimed Faulk was.
    He needs to get a lot better in his own end for me to pay him the 7 per he will want.
    7 mil d man should be able to own his pairing especially second pairing.

    Arbitration will have the truth.

    It would be interesting to see Nurse paired consistently with a decent right hand D to see if that has any positive effect on his play. Unfortunately, Benning is probably the best option to try this with out of the current roster players, and both Hitch and McLellan seemed unwilling to trust him to play higher in the lineup. Maybe Tippett tries it out?

  120. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: The one who has had the player’s agent require the team to guarantee he’d be on the roster for 40 games to accrue a year towards UFA or the player wouldn’t sign/come over (and then the player wasn’t good enough to play in the lineup nightly)?

    The agent wanted Jesse to stay in Europe. Perhaps the GM should listen to the agent instead of throwing money at them.

  121. Bulging Twine says:

    Re Puljujarvi/Oilers organization

    The blaming tone of the organization (heard through their radio guy) shows that the organization has incredibly learned nothing from this (so far) failure.
    They learned nothing from the Yakupov experience and they’ve learned nothing again.
    There is still ignorance and arrogance in the Oilers.
    Arrogance prevents learning.
    Humble yourself Oilers and examine your ways and you will gain knowledge that will lead to improvements.

  122. GMB3 says:

    pts2pndr: Reality is he should have been signed long term instead of the bridge contract. Bridge contracts are for players who have maxed out their potential. Money saved on the bridge almost always costs the team more money moving forward. If Nurse’s contract moving forward is high that is on management. They made the bet and lost. Many on this site were all in onthe bridge for Nurse. The common belief was let him earn it first. Seem the chickens have come home to roost so to speak. It is now time to pay up or shut up.

    Pretty sure you completely ignored my point. He’s not worth 7 million. His on ice results were not good this year. Leadfarmer hit the nail on the head.

  123. Bag of Pucks says:

    OriginalPouzar: Who is arguing?I’m discussing matters related to the Oilers.

    I provided my opinion, others disagree and provide their, I respond with my reasoning, etc., etc. – its called dialogue/conversation. If you, or anyone, doesn’t like the substance of that conversation, feel free to move on.At the same time, if community members choose to respond to my posts, I will continue to have dialogue with them.

    I read all sorts of conversations on this forum that I don’t care about (music) or that have been going on for much longer than anything I talk about (Hall trade, re-hashing how bad Chiarelli was, etc.).

    As an aside, I do almost no arguing in my job – I litigate nothing.I negotiate business and financial deals.

    argument

    noun

    2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

    This describes the behaviour accurately imo

    Odd that you choose to describe it as a dialogue, conversation, etc which conveys a sharing of ideas or an attempt to find common ground. From my pov, you’re convinced you’re right on this and are just repeatedly restating variations on your original point. Kinger at least tries to expand it into a true dialogue by bringing up the point of legalese and semantics vs practical application.

    My question was not directed at you specifically. I just find nature vs nurture and the traits that lead us down certain paths to be interesting subject matter. Like music, if you find the topic not of interest, as i do with your personal workout schedule for instance, feel free to ignore it. I certainly won’t take offense.

  124. Bulging Twine says:

    Bulging Twine:
    Re Puljujarvi/Oilers organization

    The blaming tone of the organization (heard through their radio guy) shows that the organization has incredibly learned nothing from this (so far) failure.
    They learned nothing from the Yakupov experience and they’ve learned nothing again.
    There is stillignorance and arrogance in the Oilers.
    Arrogance prevents learning.
    Humble yourself Oilers and examine your ways and you will gain knowledge that will lead to improvements.

    It’s in the water.
    Perhaps it’s arrogance.
    “I think I know a little bit about winning if that’s ever a concern.” type of attitude. It’s imbred in the culture. Arrogance doesn’t improve itself. It’s the end. It never get better. It never learns because it isn’t hungry to improve, it doesn’t think it needs to. It’s totally unaware that it needs to.

  125. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Would you have given Ferland the NMC for a must-protect in the expansion draft – that would have been a deal-breaker for me.

    Ferland’s NMC applies only to the first two years then reverts to a modified NTC allowing him to be exposed in the expansion draft.

    https://puckpedia.com/player/michael-ferland

  126. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Bouchard will turn Nurse into a stud, but it won’t happen this year so we won’t have to pay him stud money. Nurse at $6M + is certainly affordable.

    I think a “run in place” season for Nurse and he requests, and gets, more than $6M – with that said, in today’s market, the current Darnell Nurse is worth $6M on a long term deal.

  127. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Tender is a big risk – at the same time, both our tenders have shown an ability to get hot at the NHL level for periods of time.Smith had a bad year but he was Conn Smyth Caliber in the playoffs – maybe, just maybe, one of the two is generally “hot” at most times and we do get decent tending from the tandem? probably not.

    Klef is currently healthy, Persson may be in the lineup, Jones may be in the lineup, Bouchard will likely get some time at some point. Yes, Russell/Larsson in the top 4 doesn’t help transition, however, there is going to be a bit more skill/talent at the bottom to help

    The PP was 10th or 11th in the NHL last year – it very well could have a better PP presence on the blueline with Persson and, at some point, Bouchard (maybe Bear – his shot is very good but I don’t see him NHL ready – I don’t really see Jones as a great PP guy).

    We need to be top 10 or better on PP and just if not more importantly top 12 or better on PK. We desperately need a 3rd line centre that can PK and can win face offs when it matters.

  128. leadfarmer says:

    GMB3,

    I mean look what Petry was able to do with Smid and Fayne. We understand that nurses partners are not good, But he should be treading water with them .
    He’s still young but keeps making the same defensive mistakes over and over
    Modern D need to defend, skate and make a pass. Nurse does not defend well and does not pass well. He does skate really well.
    A 7 mil d should not need to be sheltered with Larsson

    But those points sure are shiny

  129. OriginalPouzar says:

    knighttown: I think it’s worse than this because if I was offered the over/under on any of the Big 3 reaching last years totals, since there have been zero upgrades, I’d take the under.

    – Connor has played almost perfect hockey the last two seasons. Even if he was healthy it would impossible to predict improvement and he’s leg injury isn’t nothing.
    – Leon scoring 50 is beyond anyone’s wildest dreams and again, it was in part because 97 played perfect hockey. Even if 97 was healthy I’d expect a slide for 29 back to around 40 goals…but again, I’m not sure 97 is healthy
    – 28 goals and 69 points for 93; playing with absolutely no one seems to be high.I’d consider giving him 65 points if he remains on PP1 but I don’t see him as a 30 goal threat

    We had two hopes heading into the season:
    1. A finally healthy Sekera unlocking the forwards
    2. Upgrading the worst wingers in the NHL

    Both of those real and true hopes are gone unless we add a forward here soon.

    I can’t agree that McDavid played near perfect hockey – even taking away the fact his G/60, A/60 and P/60 all went down, he barely won the goal share battle this season at 5 on 5.

    Yes, he played too many minutes, that’s a factor. Yes, his linemates were middling, that’s a factor.

    With all that said, he played many minutes with another elite player and, frankly, there were many aspects of his game that either didn’t improve or even regressed – in particular has two-way play didn’t really improve – yes, he can back check hard and steal pucks but there is MUCH more to 2-way play than that. He does have defensive zone issues – positioning and decision-making vis-a-vis when to stay high. He has faceoff issues. He is not good on the PK (although dangerous), etc.

    Now, don’t get me wrong, he is (and was) unreal. I’m not criticizing his game at all because he doesn’t need to be good on the PK and he is allowed to cheat up high in the defensive zone, etc. I’m fine with all that. Simply responding to playing near perfect. He would be the first to admit that its not the case – in my opinion.

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Nope.Lucic will have 3 more years.Russell, one.

    Its not going to be a crazy spending frenzy but they have $25M or so (plus any cap increase) for with a 10 person roster. The only significant RFA to sign is Nurse. There should be quite a few ELC contracts on next year’s roster – at least 2 of Jones, Bouchard, Lagesson. At least 2 of Benson, Maksimov, McLeod, Yamamoto.

    There could be a divestment of Russell as well (likely).

  131. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think a “run in place” season for Nurse and he requests, and gets, more than $6M – with that said, in today’s market, the current Darnell Nurse is worth $6M on a long term deal.

    He will get more than that in arbitration. Realistically, it is likely to be $7 million something on a deal with term once the D market is fully reset this year.

  132. Glovjuice says:

    Bohologo:
    I’m just here for the Exile on Main St. references; best song on the record.

    “The single greatest rock & roll record of all time, okay?Don’t send me any letters, and hold your calls.I can almost see you holding up and waving your Beatles records, your Pet Sounds, dusty old LPs in faded jackets, worthy contenders all, I am sure.Brilliant pop records, masterpieces even.But not the greatest, soulful, rock & roll record ever made.”-Bill Janovitz, Exile on Main St., 33 1/3 Series

    (Anyone who disagrees with this, let’s form the barn fight line just over there to the right.)

    I disagree. Exile is awesome but, I, without question think Sticky Fingers is better. Much better flow from front to back. Double albums never flow well enough for me aside from The Wall and the ‘white album. Actually, Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness by the Pumpkins flows well.

  133. GMB3 says:

    leadfarmer:
    GMB3,

    I mean look what Petry was able to dowith Smid and Fayne.We understand that nurses partners are not good,But he should be treading water with them .
    He’s still young but keeps making the same defensive mistakes over and over
    Modern D need to defend, skate and make a pass.Nurse does not defend well and does not pass well.He does skate really well.
    A 7 mil d should not need to be sheltered with Larsson

    But those points sure are shiny

    Yeah the hype from Edmonton fans about him is hard to understand. I honestly thought the Kris Russell – Nurse pairing was damn near unwatchable. Had to be one of the worst top 4 pairings in the NHL. If you give a guy who can’t drive a pairing 7 million you’re probably going to spend a lot of years searching in the bargain bin during free agency for D.

  134. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kinger: – I love this!You don’t “get” it.Your arguing semanctics.

    – The client, LT: he wants reality reflected.We don’t “”own” Dzingel.We “own” Pool’s rights, and because we want them is a false argument you angling.

    – So again, “legally” you are correct: but devoid from reality, and an excellent technique is to take a nonsense argument and frame it as legalese., using my words against me to frame it..

    – If you were writing a prospectus for me and I client, like all lawyers: I’d say: thanks for your consideration, now write it the way its going to be.And after a bunch of pushing back and “technical” speak, the lawyer would always (but smug in the knowledge that the lawyer was “right” and the bozo client didn’t listen to his expertise),It doesn’t matter as a practical thing.LT is right.

    – What you don’t get is that this is Lowetide’s 50-man list: it is not the one submitted to the NHL to be held up in a court of law: its a plain language disclosure to his clients: that is not binding.He is right

    – I hope you don’t take offence to my characterization: certainly lawyers don’t when I go through this with them…

    I don’t take offence at all to your characterization. The only thing I take offence to you is your stating that I don’t get when, yes, I do get it, I just don’t agree.

    We own Jesse’s right, yes, however that is absolutely meaningless vis-a-vis the 50 if he’s not going to be under contract with the Oilers and that is the current reality. That could change, however, it doesn’t seem likely – reality, as it stands now, is that its very unlikely Puljujarvi will be under contract with the Oilers this year so I don’t see why we’d create our list assuming he will be.

    LT’s reasoning, if I remember correctly, was that “he could” so he includes him. Well, we could add Lindberg, Sheehan, Boyle as well and, reality is that one of them is actually more likely, however, they aren’t included.

    Yes, its LT’s blog and his list – he can do what he wants but this comment section is here to discuss what is written in the blog – that’s what I’m going.

    I disagree with LT’s position and am stating so and discussing it.

    You disagree with many positions on this blog, state as much and discuss it.

    No different.

  135. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot:
    With a QO, Puljujarvi holds an option on a contract with the Edmonton Oilers.Until Puljujarvi makes a decision on what he is going to do with that option, I think the Oilers have to account for it on their books from a planning point of view as a contract

    i.e. The Oiler “sold” a call option on an NHL contract to Puljujarvit with a QO.If they account for it, it is a covered call.If they don’t, it is an uncovered call.

    Except that they have actual knowledge that the player isn’t going to sign the QO.

    Shit, even if things were hunky dorry between the player and the team, he wouldn’t sign the QO and would be looking for something in the $1.2M-$1.5M range I’m pretty sure.

  136. OriginalPouzar says:

    BagPucks:
    Interesting to compare the Ferland and Chaisson contracts.

    Roughly the same age and nearly identical GPG in the dance.

    Did the Nucks just buy high again? Ferland zoomed by Gaudreau. Chiasson by McDavid.

    Chiasson was zoomed by Drai, not McDavid.

  137. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Have you read the comments on LT’s article on Nurse over at the athletic? It’s a shitstorm of negativity. Man do I hate Oilers fans.

    Not yet but its on the list – still working my way through the Lavoie piece from Nugent Bowman

  138. OriginalPouzar says:

    HarpersHair: Ferland’s NMC applies only to the first two years then reverts to a modified NTC allowing him to be exposed in the expansion draft.

    https://puckpedia.com/player/michael-ferland

    Puckpedia has it for four years.

    Even so, if its for two years, I think it applies for the expansion draft – could be wrong on that though.

    It seems i probably am wrong – thank you.

  139. Lowetide says:

    The softening of position for JP could be a real positive for the Oilers. Even if the decision is made to deal him, getting Puljujarvi third line minutes and maybe some PP time between now and the deadline should increase value.

  140. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Lowetide,

    But… if that was patently obvious to us plebs here in the peanut gallery, how do JP and his agent miss that going into negotiations in the first place?

  141. Nit64 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Puckpedia has it for four years.

    Even so, if its for two years, I think it applies for the expansion draft – could be wrong on that though.

    It seems i probably am wrong – thank you.

    Yes. We know from the Vegas expansion draft that only contracts and conditions beyond June 30 matter. So yes for a 2021 draft conditions for 2019/20 and 2020/21 are irrelevant to protection requirements.

  142. deardylan says:

    Just because i’m a lawyer, am I a judge?
    Just because i’m a teacher, am I right?
    Just because i’m a psycho, am I logical?
    Just because i’m logical, am I a psycho?

  143. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Lowetide,

    Also curious about the disparity between CapFriendly’s salary values and what you have listed in the post from earlier today, if you have a moment:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey,

  144. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Puckpedia has it for four years.

    Even so, if its for two years, I think it applies for the expansion draft – could be wrong on that though.

    It seems i probably am wrong – thank you.

    You are wrong.
    It’s been widely reported in Vancouver media.

  145. Lowetide says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Lowetide,

    Also curious about the disparity between CapFriendly’s salary values and what you have listed in the post from earlier today, if you have a moment:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey,

    If there’s an error, it’s on my end.

  146. Nit64 says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Lowetide,

    But… if that was patently obvious to us plebs in the peanut gallery, how does JP and his agent miss that going into negotiations in the first place?

    Don’t know Kenny very well. Not a chance that first things he’s going to do is post a kick me sign for every GM. Maybe some other year he does player he’s worked with a solid, but unless he intends to be run over by every GM in the league like Chia was why would he start out with a fire sale?

  147. Rebillled says:

    List of 5 Guys drafted with the number they were drafted at. Some played here.

    1. Nail Yakupov
    2. Andrei Zyuzin
    3. Cam Barker
    4. JP/Griffin Reinhart

  148. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    The softening of position for JP could be a real positive for the Oilers. Even if the decision is made to deal him, getting Puljujarvi third line minutes and maybe some PP time between now and the deadline should increase value.

    I would love if Jesse signed a reasonable one year deal and Tippett does what he says he does “put players in a position to succeed and maximize their skills” which would include, I assume, consistent 5 on 5 minutes, somewhere in the top 9 with consistent lineamtes.

  149. Side says:

    godot10: The agent wanted Jesse to stay in Europe.Perhaps the GM should listen to the agent instead of throwing money at them.

    This is another narrative that does not seem to hold much weight. Chiarelli wouldn’t be the one promising or pushing for 40 games and if the agent felt his client was not ready for the NHL he would not have accepted the 40 games.

    Another speculation of yours presented as fact. A nasty habit.

  150. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Lehto was used to working with “pushover Pete” here in Oilerland. Thought he could simply continue to get his demands met. Maybe now he is realizing there is a new sheriff in town…

  151. digger50 says:

    Dustylegnd: Dont be sorry, that’s what they say on the record…talk to people who played for him off the record…or talk to Brett Hull on the record…Hitch is not a nice person to play for he fucks with good people…I dont like his methods at all nor did most of the players that played for him in Jr and Pro

    There are folks he did not get along with and his later coaching style was abrasive.

    Brett Hull was an ass as well. Didn’t even make the team in North Shore and they played him on defence 5 minutes a night after paying his 30,000 membership fee.

    To say that everyone hates a man is factually incorrect. I say again, There are hundreds of players and families who have nothing but great things to say.

    Edit: and calling a man a “fat prick” is just plain poor taste.

  152. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Lowetide,

    All good. I wasn’t sure if it was something like a disparity between the AAV or salary or cap hit kind of thing.

  153. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Nit64,

    Not much more Old Dutch could have done, really.

    JP and his agent really shat the bed on this one, from what I can see.

    This back pedalling is marvellous.

    Hope to see him skate for us this year and start hitting stride. Maybe all he really needed was a chip on his shoulder to unlock all that potential.

  154. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t take offence at all to your characterization.The only thing I take offence to you is your stating that I don’t get when, yes, I do get it, I just don’t agree.

    We own Jesse’s right, yes, however that is absolutely meaningless vis-a-vis the 50 if he’s not going to be under contract with the Oilers and that is the current reality. That could change, however, it doesn’t seem likely – reality, as it stands now, is that its very unlikely Puljujarvi will be under contract with the Oilers this year so I don’t see why we’d create our list assuming he will be.

    LT’s reasoning, if I remember correctly, was that “he could” so he includes him.Well, we could add Lindberg, Sheehan, Boyle as well and, reality is that one of them is actually more likely, however, they aren’t included.

    Yes, its LT’s blog and his list – he can do what he wants but this comment section is here to discuss what is written in the blog – that’s what I’m going.

    I disagree with LT’s position and am stating so and discussing it.

    You disagree with many positions on this blog, state as much and discuss it.

    No different.

    The difference is that the Oilers have committed a spot to JP until he chooses to sign or reject their offer,until that happens he is part of the list. The threat to go back Finland sounds more and more like smoke screen to try and force Holland’s hand,and he’s calling the bluff.

  155. JimmyV1965 says:

    pts2pndr: Reality is he should have been signed long term instead of the bridge contract. Bridge contracts are for players who have maxed out their potential. Money saved on the bridge almost always costs the team more money moving forward. If Nurse’s contract moving forward is high that is on management. They made the bet and lost. Many on this site were all in onthe bridge for Nurse. The common belief was let him earn it first. Seem the chickens have come home to roost so to speak. It is now time to pay up or shut up.

    Chia had no choice. He didn’t have enuf cap space to sign Nurse long term. I think everyone, including the GM, knew the bridge deal would bite them in the ass.

  156. Side says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t take offence at all to your characterization.The only thing I take offence to you is your stating that I don’t get when, yes, I do get it, I just don’t agree.

    We own Jesse’s right, yes, however that is absolutely meaningless vis-a-vis the 50 if he’s not going to be under contract with the Oilers and that is the current reality. That could change, however, it doesn’t seem likely – reality, as it stands now, is that its very unlikely Puljujarvi will be under contract with the Oilers this year so I don’t see why we’d create our list assuming he will be.

    LT’s reasoning, if I remember correctly, was that “he could” so he includes him.Well, we could add Lindberg, Sheehan, Boyle as well and, reality is that one of them is actually more likely, however, they aren’t included.

    Yes, its LT’s blog and his list – he can do what he wants but this comment section is here to discuss what is written in the blog – that’s what I’m going.

    I disagree with LT’s position and am stating so and discussing it.

    You disagree with many positions on this blog, state as much and discuss it.

    No different.

    But the Sheehan, Lindberg, Boyle examples aren’t really the same though, because I thought if Jesse rejects the Oilers offer and another team makes an offer and Jesse accepts, the Oilers get compensation, don’t they?

    Seems like even if he doesn’t have a contract he is still technically an asset and imo, could be included on LT’s list because he could play, or yield assets or worst case scenario, decline the offer, not get offeres by any team and not play in the NHL and he would DEFINITELY be removed from the list when that time comes.

    But I could totally have gotten all of that wrong because I know jack shit about contracts.

  157. OriginalPouzar says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Lowetide,

    All good.I wasn’t sure if it was something like a disparity between the AAV or salary or cap hit kind of thing.

    AAV and cap hit will always be equal, well, subject to performance bonuses vesting but that is calculated at the end of the season.

  158. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The cap hits on both Myers and Ferland were, surprisingly, and disappointingly, reasonable.

    The trade protection for Ferland is a bit much for a secondary player but somewhat par for the course.

    I do think Myers will be asked to play above his established levels in Vancouver (he’s really been a 4/-5 guy in Winnipeg) but maybe he’ll run with the opportunity – hope not.

    One additional point I just realized – with his NMC, they’ll have to protect Ferland in the expansion draft which is a big deal, in particular if his concussion history continues…..

    I don’t like the Myers deal at all. Ferland is okay. Another guy that didn’t score in something like his last 25 games. The biggest concern I would have with the Canucks is the volume of signings. Ferland, Myers, Jordie Benn and Edler might really bite them in the ass. Each individual signing isn’t awful, but when you put them altogether it could be big trouble. Add this to the Beagle, Schaller and Roussel signings last year, and it really doesn’t look good.

  159. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman: The difference is that the Oilers have committed a spot to JP until he chooses to sign or reject their offer,until that happens he is part of the list. The threat to go back Finland sounds more and more like smoke screen to try and force Holland’s hand,and he’s calling the bluff.

    Except there is almost no chance that he just accepts the QO – even if he does do a 180 and agrees to play for the Oilers, he’s highly unlikely to sign his QO and will be looking for $1.2M plus I would think. There is almost always a pedigree bump for this type of player even if really he hasn’t earned it.

  160. Ben says:

    Hey all! Just curious to hear whether people think that Puljujarvi should count toward the 50-man limit or not? Thanks in advance!

  161. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV: Chia had no choice. He didn’t have enuf cap space to sign Nurse long term. I think everyone, including the GM, knew the bridge deal would bite them in the ass.

    Technically they could have used off-season LTIR on Sekera to create the cap space. It would have made last season even worse though as it would have reduced the amount of the LTIR cushion and made the season tougher to manage.

  162. pts2pndr says:

    Bag of Pucks: Hugely valuable advice I received from my father-in-law on the merits of arguing something to death.

    “Do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy?”

    I thought that was for married couples.

  163. pts2pndr says:

    JimmyV1965: Chia had no choice. He didn’t have enuf cap space to sign Nurse long term. I think everyone, including the GM, knew the bridge deal would bite them in the ass.

    Not completely true. He initially had the money but chose to go a route that left him without the funds to sign nurse long term.

  164. OriginalPouzar says:

    Side: But the Sheehan, Lindberg, Boyle examples aren’t really the same though, because I thought if Jesse rejects the Oilers offer and another team makes an offer and Jesse accepts, the Oilers get compensation, don’t they?

    Seems like even if he doesn’t have a contract he is still technically an asset and imo, could be included on LT’s list because he could play, or yield assets or worst case scenario, decline the offer, not get offeres by any team and not play in the NHL and he would DEFINITELY be removed from the list when that time comes.

    But I could totally have gotten all of that wrong because I know jack shit about contracts.

    If he gets an offer sheet and accepts and the Oilers don’t match then, yes, we’ll get draft pick compensation – boom, no contract on the 50.

    Yes, he’s 100% an asset but, until today, the chances he would take up a spot on the 50 was minute – even with today’s “news” I still think its pretty slim.

    He could be traded for a contract on the 50 or he could be traded for a draft pick and/or a non-contract asset. THat’s no different than the 2020 1st round (or any other future) draft pick) – could be traded for a contract.

    Anyways, I’m done talking about it. I stand by my position and I fully acknowledge its a minority opinion.

  165. HT Joe says:

    JimmyV1965: Chia had no choice. He didn’t have enuf cap space to sign Nurse long term. I think everyone, including the GM, knew the bridge deal would bite them in the ass.

    Chia didn’t have enough cap space because he signed Koskinen for too much $$$. Man, that guy…

  166. HT Joe says:

    It was recently I think when Lowetide wrote something along the lines of the Oilers always badmouth the previous guy (Lowetide… I hope I’m not mischaracterizing your comment).

    In any case, Chiarelli is the first guy who really seems to deserve all of the trashing that people can dish out. He literally did the worst job possible in terms of cap management and team construction.

  167. Mr DeBakey says:

    Ben:
    Hey all! Just curious to hear whether people think that Puljujarvi should count toward the 50-man limit or not? Thanks in advance!

    Tempest in a Lowetide Teapot Summer 2019

    Also, was Curtis Glencross worth $1.2MM in July 2008?

    Team Doesn’t Count

  168. HT Joe says:

    Mr DeBakey: Also, was Curtis Glencross worth $1.2MM in July 2008?

    *punches wall

    That STILL kills me. What… management was so intent on chasing after a big whale that nobody could offer Glencross a contract? Just a month or so earlier, I remember seeing an advert for the Oilers in the newspaper, I believe with the caption “We’re building something special”, and an Oiler clearly celebrating on the ice after just scoring. The Oiler? GlenX. GAWWWWD!

    *spits

  169. pts2pndr says:

    GMB3: Pretty sure you completely ignored my point. He’s not worth 7 million. His on ice results were not good this year. Leadfarmer hit the nail on the head.

    He could have been signed long term for 5.5 to 6 million which he would be full value for. With salaries escalating he may very well get 7 million on his next contract. Worth and or value is determined by the market and not by what the fans think a player may or may not be worth.

  170. Bag of Pucks says:

    Ben:
    Hey all! Just curious to hear whether people think that Puljujarvi should count toward the 50-man limit or not? Thanks in advance!

    Some people call it the Gretzky Trade. Some call it the Gretzky Sale. Both are right. Isn’t that weird?

  171. GMB3 says:

    pts2pndr: He could have been signed long term for 5.5 to 6 million which he would be full value for.With salaries escalating he may very well get 7 million on his next contract. Worth and or value is determined by the market and not by what the fans think a player may or may not be worth.

    In a sense I agree. I thought you were stating he had earned 7 mill with his play, which I disagree with.

    My mistake

  172. Wonder Llama says:

    Come on, man: Beggar’s Banquet.

    I shouldn’t even have to tell you.

  173. TeeVee says:

    Ben:
    Hey all! Just curious to hear whether people think that Puljujarvi should count toward the 50-man limit or not? Thanks in advance!

    You’ll probably be banned for this, but well done nonetheless!

  174. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: Who is arguing?I’m discussing matters related to the Oilers.

    I provided my opinion, others disagree and provide their, I respond with my reasoning, etc., etc. – its called dialogue/conversation. If you, or anyone, doesn’t like the substance of that conversation, feel free to move on.At the same time, if community members choose to respond to my posts, I will continue to have dialogue with them.

    I read all sorts of conversations on this forum that I don’t care about (music) or that have been going on for much longer than anything I talk about (Hall trade, re-hashing how bad Chiarelli was, etc.).

    As an aside, I do almost no arguing in my job – I litigate nothing.I negotiate business and financial deals.

    It’s so weird that you don’t care about music.

  175. HT Joe says:

    Mr DeBakey: Also, was Curtis Glencross worth $1.2MM in July 2008?

    So I was going down the interwebs, reliving the GlenX non-signing, and I ran across some old posts which were complaining how bad Katz’s Oilers were doing since he took over in 2008. The articles complained how “woe is us, the Oilers have been the worst overall team for 5 years”. I started building a spreadsheet to compare 2008-2009 to 2018-2019.. it’s taking time but I completed the Canadian teams…

    TEAM – (AVG. PTS / SEASON*)
    Calgary – 89.1 pts
    Edmonton – 74.4 pts <– dead last with a bullet
    Montreal – 93.1 pts
    Ottawa – 85.4 pts
    Toronto – 85.3 pts
    Vancouver – 92.2 pts
    Winnipeg** – 93 pts

    * I pro-rated the 2012-2013 season points to 82 games
    ** I included only the Winnipeg games after the move from Atlanta

    What happens if we cherry-pick to include only the "McDavid Years" (incidentally, the "Chia Years" depending on how you look at it)?

    Calgary – 90.5 pts
    Edmonton – 82.5 pts <– we're not last… whee!!
    Montreal – 88 pts
    Ottawa – 78.5 pts <– really bad for the last 2 seasons
    Toronto – 92.3 pts
    Vancouver – 74.5 pts <– rebuilding, and did have more points than us last year
    Winnipeg – 95 pts

    So, we're 3rd last instead of dead last by a lot (for the Canadian teams)… progress!? :\

  176. Primetime says:

    OriginalPouzar: Except there is almost no chance that he just accepts the QO – even if he does do a 180 and agrees to play for the Oilers, he’s highly unlikely to sign his QO and will be looking for $1.2M plus I would think. There is almost always a pedigree bump for this type of player even if really he hasn’t earned it.

    But this possibility has nothing to do with whether he should count on the 50 man list. Neither does your scenario of also not counting other free agents we have no current rights to, it has nothing to do with JPs status on the team.

    Think of it this way: The Oilers have offered JP a contract (qualifying offer). As far as I know they can not rescind this offer, and JP has until December 1st to sign it or negotiate a better deal. Until that date, the Oilers cannot get up to 50 players because if JP signs the offer, they will be over the limit. They can’t say “well the chances were really slim so we signed a 50th player anyway. We didn’t expect him to sign!”.

    Until Dec 1 he takes up a spot, they can’t take it back now. After that date, your argument has more merit

  177. BONE207 says:

    JimmyV1965: Chia had no choice. He didn’t have enough cap space to sign Nurse long term. I think everyone, including the GM, knew the bridge deal would bite them in the ass.

    Well that might be a reasonable assumption…until he signed Koskinen & Manning & Gagner.

  178. BONE207 says:

    Ben:
    Hey all! Just curious to hear whether people think that Puljujarvi should count toward the 50-man limit or not? Thanks in advance!

    Hell no…
    I’ll be the 50th man. My stick is ready with my curve all taped. I was told the paperwork is in the mail.

  179. ArmchairGM says:

    BONE207: Well that might be a reasonable assumption…until he signed Koskinen & Manning & Gagner.

    He didn’t sign either of Manning or Gagner. They were acquired in trades, remember?

    The Manning trade actually saved $100k on the cap while the Gagner trade dinged the cap by $50k – both negligible. Besides, these trades happened mid-season (December 30, February 16) so they had ZERO impact on the Nurse contract.

  180. ArmchairGM says:

    A lot of straw men getting beaten in this thread re: Nurse and his phantom $7M contract. If he gets that money next year it’ll be because he’s worth it given on-ice play and market conditions at the time. He won’t if he isn’t.

    And if he gets “overpaid” by whatever definition you place on the word, at least we’ll be “overpaying” a player for his prime years rather than his decline years. Many here (including me) thought that Draisaitl’s deal was an overpay based on comps at the time, now look where we are!

  181. Pouzar says:

    Who the heck is Nolan Zajac?

  182. Professor Q says:

    Pouzar:
    Who the heck is Nolan Zajac?

    Travis’s brother? We’re still in the lesser brother or son or cousin business it seems.

  183. russ99 says:

    Lowetide,

    Regardless of how it turns out, Holland has handled this expertly, let Jesse and his agent look like idiots trying to win a battle in the press.

    I’d doubt there’s a path back without some serious humble pie.

  184. Todd Macallan says:

    Professor Q: Travis’s brother? We’re still in the lesser brother or son or cousin business it seems.

    Looks like he has signed with the Stavanger Oilers in Norway haha

  185. GMB3 says:

    russ99:
    Lowetide,

    Regardless of how it turns out, Holland has handled this expertly, let Jesse and his agent look like idiots trying to win a battle in the press.

    I’d doubt there’s a path back without some serious humble pie.

    Agreed

  186. GMB3 says:

    ArmchairGM:
    A lot of straw men getting beaten in this thread re: Nurse and his phantom $7M contract. If he gets that money next year it’ll be because he’s worth it given on-ice play and market conditions at the time. He won’t if he isn’t.

    And if he gets “overpaid” by whatever definition you place on the word, at least we’ll be “overpaying” a player for his prime years rather than his decline years. Many here (including me) thought that Draisaitl’s deal was an overpay based on comps at the time, now look where we are!

    That’s a valid point, although it still was an overpay at the time. I think Drai getting such a large contract Really changed the market. A rising tide floats all boats or whatever

  187. ArmchairGM says:

    Just looking at Evolving Hockey’s database… sorted by WAR over the past 3 years combined, Zucker is 10th in the league at 8.7 – ahead of Crosby (8.6), Draisaitl (7.9) and Taylor Hall (7.7). Zucker had a relatively poor season last year and still posted 1.3 WAR and 7.3 GAR, similar numbers to Nugent-Hopkins who posted 1.4 WAR and 7.9 GAR. Is this guy really available?

  188. ArmchairGM says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Just looking at Evolving Hockey’s database… sorted by WAR over the past 3 years combined, Zucker is 10th in the league at 8.7 – ahead of Crosby (8.6), Draisaitl (7.9) and Taylor Hall (7.7). Zucker had a relatively poor season last year and still posted 1.3 WAR and 7.3 GAR, similar numbers to Nugent-Hopkins who posted 1.4 WAR and 7.9 GAR. Is this guy really available?

    For reference, Ehlers is at 4.9 WAR and 26.7 GAR over the past 3 seasons.

    Ehlers
    16-17: 1.2 and 6.2
    17-18: 2.5 and 13.8
    18-19: 1.2 and 6.7

    Zucker
    16-17: 4.3 and 22.5
    17-18: 3.1 and 17.2
    18-19: 1.3 and 7.3

    Zucker’s worst season is still better than 2 of 3 Ehlers seasons, although age is on the Jets’ forward’s side. If acquisition cost was equal I’d be torn, but that is unlikely to be the case.

    Thoughts?

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