Unfinished Business

by Lowetide

Years ago, I had this boss who did things in order. No exceptions. Back then radio broadcasters had contracts and Albert (his name was not Albert) would bring up the subject of a new contract one month before the old one expired. Not 35 days, not 25 days. One month. He used to take his right hand, push his glasses straight back with his thumb and middle finger (touching only the hinges) and say “get your mind around this” and we would begin to negotiate.

Albert was a tough negotiator, he hammered me senseless the first two times and then I won after it (went above him to right a wrong, it was not his fault, but I had to quit, wait two years and then negotiate a better deal with his boss). He never wavered, we did the same dance every time. Albert made his to-do list, prioritized it, and proceeded to go about his business. You have to respect that kind of consistency. I know I did.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Jonathan Willis: Oilers ease pressure on crowded defensive pipeline by trading John Marino to the Penguins
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
  • New Lowetide: Joel Persson is ideally situated to win an opening night roster spot with the Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2019-20 Oilers might look like without trade missteps.
  • Lowetide: Finding the best candidates for the final two spots on the Oilers skill lines in 2019-20.
  • Jonathan Willis: Projecting the Oilers’ opening night lineup, line combinations and more.
  • Lowetide: Does the James Neal acquisition impact Oilers’ prospects in 2019-20?
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

Ken Holland traded John Marino yesterday, it’s the kind of trade a manager makes when he’s clearing off his desk and preparing to head to the cottage for a few weeks over summer. Trade Marino, tell the milkman no deliveries until September long, take the propane tank off the barbecue and tell the neighbour he’s welcome to pick the apples while you’re gone. Ken Holland is heading to the lake, with one file folder left on his desk: A blue and white one with a small Finnish flag in the right corner. No one went over Holland’s head, but someone tried to do an end-around. I don’t think it will change Holland’s plan. He’s focused on getting value for the Oilers. It might not be out there this summer.

JOHN MARINO

Players are attached to organizations but over the years I’ve found they are most especially attached to the men who drafted them. So, John Marino was drafted by Peter Chiarelli and Bob Green, and whomever the eastern scout was in 2014-15 (Scott Harlow? I think it’s Harlow) and the player’s relationship with the Oilers may have walked out the door with Chiarelli. Holland may have chatted with Harlow, or maybe the team attempted to sign him this spring but it didn’t happen. My guess is the Oilers knew he wouldn’t sign here and are hoping the Penguins can get him under contract right away.

How good is Marino? I have a friend who scouts the USHL and feeder leagues, who also sees a lot of ECAC hockey. I reached out and he told me “Marino will play in the NHL” so this is a deal that could look poor five years from now. That’s the nature of those USHL kids from the USA. It’s a tough sell for Edmonton, just as getting Matt Benning was an easy one. John Marino is going home, these things rarely change.

JESSE PULJUJARVI

I remain convinced the best thing to do is keep him, but Ken Holland has to decide if he wants to divide Dave Tippett’s priorities (win and develop) with JP. One hopes Tippett saw the video and loved what he saw, and is convinced there’s a player there. It’s possible.

Or, Puljujarvi might spend the season in Europe.

Edmonton does need a RH center but the names available are flawed. Riley Nash is in Columbus with a $2.75 million cap hit (times two) and not a lot to recommend him. Nash does have a solid Puck IQ player card versus elites (27.4 percent of his overall time versus elites, 50.40 DFF percentage and DFF% RC of 1.50). You wouldn’t trade JP for him, and Nash is coming off a poor offensive season, but could help and shouldn’t cost a lot. He’s more No. 4 line than No. 3 line based on that TOI percentage against elites, anyway.

I wonder if there’s a deal involving one of the teams trying to sign their RFA’s. Edmonton’s cap room ($2.4 million remaining with the team at the 23-man limit) suggests a narrow window of opportunity. Vladislav Namestnikov? He’s pretty spendy.

LOWETIDE LIST: 2010 DRAFT

This is my list and year one is pretty much a tie. I’m not sure Pickard is more or less valuable than Marincin, and the first two picks are identical. I think people often view Pitlick as a reach pick, but he was a first-round selection on my list.

2011 DRAFT

My list saw more NHL games, but Klefbom>Beaulieau by a large margin, so Edmonton wins it despite the GP edge. The 2011 draft had a tremendous number of promising prospects who never got untracked, I think that is reflected by both lists here.

2012 DRAFT

One of the reasons I wanted to do the original list is to show that the Khaira reach selection worked well. Khaira was valued by Red Line but wasn’t a famous prospect. I give the slight edge to Edmonton here because of the Khaira pick.

2013 DRAFT

Edmonton drafted the better player in round one, but Buchnevich and Bjorkstrand give my list the edge. Slepyshev not developing really hurt the Oilers. I have no idea why they passed on Bjorkstrand.

2014 DRAFT

I valued Bennett because he scored a lot of points at even strength, but Draisaitl made this an unfair fight Halloween night 2015. Lagesson is the third best player on this list, meaning a clear win for the Oilers. In looking at this decade of drafting, one of the main positives for the Oilers came in choosing Draisaitl. It’s an Everest selection and they had compelling alternatives.

2015 DRAFT

Clearly McDavid made the draft but I’ve always been impressed by Edmonton’s scouts getting two good defensive (actually three) in the middle of the draft. My list grabbed Mangiapane late, credit goes to math. I’ll give the edge to the Oilers, because of the extra player.

2016 DRAFT

My list gets DeBrincat and that’s the biggest positive math delivered in this decade. Oilers did a poor work in the third round, too. A massive win for my list.

2017 DRAFT

I like both lists, but Samorukov is a very promising player and gives Edmonton the edge. Too soon to know. Yamamoto’s wrist worries may impact the long range look of the Oilers’ draft.

2018 DRAFT

This promises to be a fantastic set of picks to follow. I’ll tell you that five of these six names are progressing well to very well.

2019 DRAFT

Either math has identified Kaliyev as another home run ala DeBrincat or this draft will look silly five years from now. I like my combination of forward-defense drafting more than Edmonton’s because the forward came first, but credit where due the Lavoie pick is exceptional at No. 38. Broberg, despite being a first-round pick, is vague enough as a player for us to be truly curious about his season to come. Look for TOI usage, even strength goal differential and point totals in all disciplines.

SUMMARY

The major hits for the Lowetide list are DeBrincat (a monster), Bjorkstand, Buchnevich, eventually Mangiapane. My evaluation of math led me to Bennett over Draisaitl, don’t blame math, blame the bus driver. Over the decade, I like my lists and believe the process is stronger now than it was in 2010.

The Oilers biggest hit was the Draisaitl pick while surrounded by noise. That decision impacted the organization in a major way. Oscar Klefbom (over Beaulieu), Nurse (over Nichushkin), Khaira over pedestrians, Jones and Bear deep were also astute selections.

Which list do you prefer? Did math make a big enough difference to employ? Note: Much of the decade is to be determined, we’ll have to revisit a year from now.

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leeinvan

Really think the team should have drafted a top end forward in the first round, when you look at Nashville that has had an awesome D for the last 5-6 years, but have really struggled to find top forwards you have to worry the way the Oilers are going about this.
I read somewhere the other day that the consensus is that Larsson will be left for the Seattle team to take. Why would they do that?
If you think Seattle is taking him, why not trade the players for a 1st round pick.

Woogie63

I like this look at BM and LT’s DRAFT list.

What are the measurement on the DEVELOPEMENT of a player.

Ben

leeinvan: I read somewhere

You can read just about anything, anywhere these days.

leeinvan: the team should have drafted a top end forward

They should have drafted the best player available in the first round. Maybe they did, maybe they didn’t. Plus, Nashville didn’t already have two 100-point forwards on their roster when they were building that D.

kashirat

I’ve always wondered how much a player is a product of their environment. No disrespect to Draisaitl but would Bennett have become a different player today if he had been stapled to Hall or McDavid?

Guess we’ll never know.

alberta bound edmonton

Compelling reading LT. Your idea of comparing draft lists sparks curiosity. I bet both you and the Oilers beat Button hands down although I like his work as well.

norm_klassen

We have 2 years to develop some forwards that can play with mcdavid or draisaitl.
Imagine if RNH leaves in free agency?

jtblack

kashirat:
I’ve always wondered how much a player is a product of their environment. No disrespect to Draisaitl but would Bennett have become a different player today if he had been stapled to Hall or McDavid?

Guess we’ll never know.

I think this is an interesting question ..

For me, some players will make it no matter where they play or who they play with …. That would be the minority.

for most, the opportunity, team, teammates, coaches really matter to their success ..

Ben

norm_klassen: Imagine if RNH leaves in free agency

Hopefully they either start negotiating an extension when the window opens or they trade him. No idea why so many GMs (whose teams aren’t contenders) hang on to these guys and watch the asset evaporate on the hopes they re-sign.

There’s some logic to the position that (if you doubt his willingness to re-sign) you trade him this year while you can still get close to full value, and he’s coming off of a strong offensive year.

Brantford Boy

LT, I have to side (although slightly) with the Oilers selections… pretty much for all the reasons you identified… with that said I favour defensemen… the no brainers in the first round were Hall (although I’ve been wondering lately about Seguin), RNH, I was preying for Klefbom at the time, I swayed to Ryan Murray over Yakapov but was happy with the pick. All the rest line up with who I wanted selected except the 2017 (sadly, I did not want Yamamoto) and 2019 drafts (there was skill on the board with the defense setup. I do believe Benson, McLeod, and Lavoie could tip the scales in the second round.

godot10

leeinvan:
Really think the team should have drafted a top end forward in the first round, when you look at Nashville that has had an awesome D for the last 5-6 years, but have really struggled to find top forwards you have to worry the way the Oilers are going about this.
I read somewhere the other day that the consensus is that Larsson will be left for the Seattle team to take. Why would they do that?
If you think Seattle is taking him, why not trade the players for a 1st round pick.

Dream of Scott Niedermayer and you won’t feel so bad. If Broberg hits, thats who he is.

godot10

Woogie63:
I like this look at BM and LT’s DRAFT list.

What are the measurement on the DEVELOPEMENT of a player.

Where is the measurement of the dumb trades that through away useful draft picks for nothing?

Brantford Boy

godot10,

Is the answer “Peter Chiarelli” or “Griffin Reinhart”, or is it both?

godot10

kashirat:
I’ve always wondered how much a player is a product of their environment. No disrespect to Draisaitl but would Bennett have become a different player today if he had been stapled to Hall or McDavid?

Guess we’ll never know.

I think Bennett is still going to be a very good player. He is just finding himself. Calgary handled him a bit like Puljujarvi his first few seasons. They didn’t put him in a spot, and they didn’t have a spot.

If I could get one player off of Calgary…

godot10

Ben: Hopefully they either start negotiating an extension when the window opens or they trade him. No idea why so many GMs (whose teams aren’t contenders) hang on to these guys and watch the asset evaporate on the hopes they re-sign.

There’s some logic to the position that (if you doubt his willingness to re-sign) you trade him this year while you can still get close to full value, and he’s coming off of a strong offensive year.

Why would you trade a person entering the last year of a contract, even if you don’t intend to re-sign him? The player is likely to have a monster year. And as we have seen this off-season, cap space is incredibly valuable in the off-season for picking up bargains and creating value.

Only core players should be locked up a year before free agency. And very good players if they want to re-sign.

If Nugent-Hopkins wants to sign a year from now, I would sign him. But if he wants to play out his contract and test UFA status, I sure as hell am not trading him. My team is going to get that monster year leading to UFA status, not somebody else.

Soup Fascist

godot10: Dream of Scott Niedermayer and you won’t feel so bad.If Broberg hits, thats who he is.

No. Think of a 6’3” 215 lb Scott Niedermeyer. Now, I don’t think many have the puck moving ability and smarts of Niedermeyer – it would be a lottery ticket if Broberg does. But he can skate. Watched him at the Hletzky last year. The kid is mobile.

Ben

godot10: Why would you trade a person entering the last year of a contract, even if you don’t intend to re-sign him?The player is likely to have a monster year. And as we have seen this off-season, cap space is incredibly valuable in the off-season for picking up bargains and creating value.

Only core players should be locked up a year before free agency.And very good players if they want to re-sign.

If Nugent-Hopkins wants to sign a year from now, I would sign him.But if he wants to play out his contract and test UFA status, I sure as hell am not trading him.My team is going to get that monster year leading to UFA status, not somebody else.

Absurd. You (might) get one good year of a player vs. years of control over another quality asset. If you’re on the edge of contending, sure. If you’re the Edmonton Oilers this is more terrible asset management.

Also, what about being the last year of your contract makes it “likely” that you’ll have a “monster year”? A highly successful pro athlete is going to finally start trying hard because it’s a contract year?

Bag of Pucks

In 2019, why would it matter if the F was drafted first? That seems an arbitrary bias.

If you want a legit 1D, they’re best procured at the top of the draft.

Victoria Oil

LT – thanks very much for this thoughtful analysis the last couple days. I think it is pretty clear that overall the Oilers have done a pretty decent job of drafting since that silly Mitch Moroz 2nd round pick.

But what is even more clear is that the Oilers, during this time period, have done an awful job of trading and have squandered numerous opportunities (two high picks for Reinhart plus a giving up a 2nd for signing Chiarelli, etc.).

Munny

Ben,

Neither your nor Godot’s position is absurd without knowing the possible return.

Or how the player and his agent value themselves.

Or how the market will be constructed that UFA year.

There are valid arguments for both sides… depending.

Melman

While allowing players to stay in the minors (or Europe) until they are ready is a key part of development, so too is putting those players in positions to succeed once in the NHL emphasizing how complicated it is to measure development. Would another year of playing with Derek Roy as his centre unlocked Yak? What if Jesse had lived with the Lucic’s (or Smyth’s or Finnish billets) when he first came to YEG?

With so much a stake, it’s always been a little surprising when you hear things like the team getting JP language lessons for his second year vs. having an established network of player support in place for new kids landing in the show. Maybe they do and we just don’t hear much about it, but it sure seems obvious that taking every step possible to assist players in getting comfortable off ice will help their ability to focus on ice. Whatever that financial cost is to an organization, it’s less than Gryba’s buyout that’s sitting on the books.

Woodguy v2.0

godot10: Dream of Scott Niedermayer and you won’t feel so bad.If Broberg hits, thats who he is.

I think Broberg’s “home run” equivalent is more Klingberg than Niedermyer.

Byram’s “home run” equivalent is Niedermyer.

Some of that is league bias.

Munny

Offense is soooo tough to read in defensemen at draft age. Shea Weber had 18 points in 70 games for the Rockets in his draft year. Broberg could be anything offensively. But with his skating there’s no way he’s not making the Bigs.

OriginalPouzar

I know LT had Marino ranked higher than Phil Kemp but I’ve liked Phil Kemp ever since he almost made the US world junior team a few years back and then made it and excelled above expectations last year.

Disappointing that they felt they wouldn’t be able to sign Marino but not surprising. Interesting they did this a year in advance as he’ll be back to school this year and the UFA date isn’t until next August.

OriginalPouzar

I am also convinced the best ending would be a kill and make up and have Jesse develop in the top 6 this year. With health and organizational changes, he’s set up for the pop.

I feel Holland will move him for an underwhelming return and I’m hopeful it’s not the case.

Munny

Bag of Pucks:
In 2019, why would it matter if the F was drafted first? That seems an arbitrary bias.

If you want a legit 1D, they’re best procured at the top of the draft.

BPA always in the 1st.

This year there was little consensus on who that was where we were picking, so we’re going to have to rely on the scouts for now and for Time to eventually tell us how they did. Math, or at least the data we have available, is no help at all for evaluating Euro Dmen playing against adults.

Considering the prospects in the system, we can be pretty confident that the Org’s philosophy was BPA, at least.

ArmchairGM

leeinvan:
Really think the team should have drafted a top end forward in the first round, when you look at Nashville that has had an awesome D for the last 5-6 years, but have really struggled to find top forwards you have to worry the way the Oilers are going about this.
I read somewhere the other day that the consensus is that Larsson will be left for the Seattle team to take. Why would they do that?
If you think Seattle is taking him, why not trade the players for a 1st round pick.

Larsson will be a UFA the summer of the Seattle draft, as will Nugent-Hopkins. I doubt either will be protected, because even if Seattle selected one of them there’s no guarantee that they will sign. In the Vegas draft none of the pending UFA players were protected and Vegas didn’t pick any of them.

Reja

Bag of Pucks:
In 2019, why would it matter if the F was drafted first? That seems an arbitrary bias.

If you want a legit 1D, they’re best procured at the top of the draft.

Are you sure that’s not a top 3-6 centre forward.

ArmchairGM

godot10: Why would you trade a person entering the last year of a contract, even if you don’t intend to re-sign him?The player is likely to have a monster year. And as we have seen this off-season, cap space is incredibly valuable in the off-season for picking up bargains and creating value.

Only core players should be locked up a year before free agency.And very good players if they want to re-sign.

If Nugent-Hopkins wants to sign a year from now, I would sign him.But if he wants to play out his contract and test UFA status, I sure as hell am not trading him.My team is going to get that monster year leading to UFA status, not somebody else.

I agree, except for a team that’s out of contention at the deadline. Let’s say we’re clearly out of the playoff picture and Nuge is having a monster year – think if all the great things we could get at the deadline! And then still re-sign him come July 1st, of course.

Shane

OriginalPouzar:
I am also convinced the best ending would be a kill and make up and have Jesse develop in the top 6 this year.With health and organizational changes, he’s set up for the pop.

I feel Holland will move him for an underwhelming return and I’m hopeful it’s not the case.

Well OP, I’m not against the idea. But who do you think we have to kill to make this young man happy again? Chiarelli? Lehto? McLellan??

Professor Q

kashirat:
I’ve always wondered how much a player is a product of their environment. No disrespect to Draisaitl but would Bennett have become a different player today if he had been stapled to Hall or McDavid?

Guess we’ll never know.

Draisaitl wasn’t stapled beside them (Hall played alongside him, right?), either, so, indeed. We’ll never know. Unless Bennett had gone back to the OHL without being injured, then had been traded to Oshawa, and then had dominated the playoffs and Memorial Cup.

JimmyV1965

kashirat:
I’ve always wondered how much a player is a product of their environment. No disrespect to Draisaitl but would Bennett have become a different player today if he had been stapled to Hall or McDavid?

Guess we’ll never know.

I think there’s some merit to this question. I also think Draisaitl is the wrong guy to use as a comparison. IMO he would be a star anywhere he went. He’s one of the best passers I’ve ever seen and he’s developed a deadly shot that makes him one of the most dangerous offensive players in the league. Would Bennett be a better player today if he played with McDavid or Hall? Now that’s an interesting question.

JimmyV1965

godot10: Why would you trade a person entering the last year of a contract, even if you don’t intend to re-sign him?The player is likely to have a monster year. And as we have seen this off-season, cap space is incredibly valuable in the off-season for picking up bargains and creating value.

Only core players should be locked up a year before free agency.And very good players if they want to re-sign.

If Nugent-Hopkins wants to sign a year from now, I would sign him.But if he wants to play out his contract and test UFA status, I sure as hell am not trading him.My team is going to get that monster year leading to UFA status, not somebody else.

After 35 years in hockey drafts, I can say pretty comfortably that the idea of players piling up big points in UFA years is more myth than reality. Many do, but many don’t.

Primetime

ArmchairGM: Larsson will be a UFA the summer of the Seattle draft, as will Nugent-Hopkins. I doubt either will be protected, because even if Seattle selected one of them there’s no guarantee that they will sign. In the Vegas draft none of the pending UFA players were protected and Vegas didn’t pick any of them.

In the last expansion draft, Vegas was given the opportunity to speak to all UFA’s before any other team (except for the one already holding their rights of course). Therefore they knew whether they would sign or not before the expansion draft. The rules also stated if they did sign a UFA, it counted as the selection from that team. Vegas signed Deryk Engelland as a UFA and that counted as the selection from Calgary.

I remember the rumor was that they spoke with Kris Russell as well. I believe his agent used that interest to win the Chia lottery contract he was awarded immediately after the draft.

godot10

JimmyV1965: After 35 years in hockey drafts, I can say pretty comfortably that the idea of players piling up big points in UFA years is more myth than reality. Many do, but many don’t.

Lucic in LA. Enough proof for any Oilers fan! -)

defmn

Lowetide: I think the Oilers have a slight edge as well.

Yes, but the old businessman in me needs to point out how much that scouting department costs Katz versus what you charge for results that are reasonably close. 😉

Really fun posts the last couple of days. Enjoyed both of them tremendously.

As you have been going through this exercise have you identified anybody who has consistently hit it out of the park?

GordieHoweHatTrick

HI LT,

Thanks for the draft analysis.
Based on who was doing the drafting for the Oil over this period, do you have a perspective on ranking the drafters that you could share?
🙂

defmn

Flames sign Rittich leaving them with $6.1 mil to sign Mangiapane & Tkachuk. Some GM’s aren’t going to get as much cotttage at the lake time this summer as they would like.

OriginalPouzar

leeinvan:
Really think the team should have drafted a top end forward in the first round, when you look at Nashville that has had an awesome D for the last 5-6 years, but have really struggled to find top forwards you have to worry the way the Oilers are going about this.
I read somewhere the other day that the consensus is that Larsson will be left for the Seattle team to take. Why would they do that?
If you think Seattle is taking him, why not trade the players for a 1st round pick.

Who knows what the roster construction will look like in a few years – if Nurse is trade for a forward, for example, things look different.

Also, the NSH example doesn’t ring true to me as the Oilers have McDavid and Drai for the better part of the next decade – that is some elite forward power that NSH has never had to build around – no offence to Forsberg.

OriginalPouzar

kashirat:
I’ve always wondered how much a player is a product of their environment. No disrespect to Draisaitl but would Bennett have become a different player today if he had been stapled to Hall or McDavid?

Guess we’ll never know.

Wait a second – this may be the first post ever citing a player as developing better on the Oilers than if off the Oilers.

OriginalPouzar

Ben: Hopefully they either start negotiating an extension when the window opens or they trade him. No idea why so many GMs (whose teams aren’t contenders) hang on to these guys and watch the asset evaporate on the hopes they re-sign.

There’s some logic to the position that (if you doubt his willingness to re-sign) you trade him this year while you can still get close to full value, and he’s coming off of a strong offensive year.

Of course, asset management is huge but lets not forget that $6M (or $7M-8M if speaking re-sign cost) is an asset in itself.

OriginalPouzar

Soup Fascist: No. Think of a 6’3” 215 lb Scott Niedermeyer.Now, I don’t think many have the puck moving ability and smarts of Niedermeyer – it would be a lottery ticket if Broberg does.But he can skate. Watched him at the Hletzky last year.The kid is mobile.

Jay Boumester will suffice as well.

Bling

One thing with Draisaitl is that he is easily a top 5 passer in the NHL amongst forwards. I don’t think that skill or its development had anything to do with being stapled to McDavid or Hall.

Not too many guys can dish it the way he can, particularly on the backhand.

Then there’s his one-timer.

Bling

OriginalPouzar:
I am also convinced the best ending would be a kill and make up and have Jesse develop in the top 6 this year.With health and organizational changes, he’s set up for the pop.

I feel Holland will move him for an underwhelming return and I’m hopeful it’s not the case.

JP on a line with Neal and Nuge would be great.

Neal says he wants to play RW, but he’s already defensively challenged and playing on his off-side will make defensive zone board plays more difficult.

OriginalPouzar

Broberg not in the lineup today against USA – will play tomorrow.

OriginalPouzar

As per Matheson, Silkanen is playing center. Hope he has a good showcase.

Mantis

Shane: Well OP, I’m not against the idea. But who do you think we have to kill to make this young man happy again? Chiarelli? Lehto? McLellan??

If you have to ask the question…