2019-20 Game 19: Oilers at Ducks

As time goes by, players become associated with major events against specific opposition. Wayne Gretzky’s goal against Mike Vernon of the Calgary Flames, Mark Messier’s famous playoff game against the Chicago Blackhawks, Grant Fuhr’s stone cold shutout of the New York Islanders.

Darnell Nurse is associated with a playoff game against the Anaheim Ducks, sending Ryan Kesler into the crease where he ran roughshod over Cam Talbot and finished the Oilers, spring 2017. Nurse will have more chances to create positive imprints on the fan base and that’s what making the playoffs is all about each spring.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. 

Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here.

  • New Lowetide: Tyler Benson emerging from the pack of Bakersfield Condors hopefuls. (Will link).
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins shines, mad props for Leon Draisaitl and more to like as the Oilers beat the Devils
  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What inexperienced defencemen like the Oilers’ Joel Persson must do to gain their coach’s confidence
  • Lowetide: Oilers are closer to having an effective second line than a year ago, but few have noticed
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: The beauty of a good night’s sleep can be elusive for many NHL players
  • Jonathan Willis: Why the Oilers were wise to gamble on Tomas Jurco, even though it didn’t pan out
  • Jonathan Willis: The unlikely goalie performances underpinning the Oilers’ hot start
  • Lowetide: How far away is Evan Bouchard and what role will he play with the Oilers?
  • Scott Wheeler: Analyzing Jesse Puljujarvi’s play in Finland to see what he could offer as an NHLer
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers right to wait until they’re sure before recalling Kailer Yamamoto, Tyler Benson
  • Lowetide:  Can Leon Draisaitl score more than 50 goals this season?
  • Lowetide: Bakersfield Condors coaching staff continues to mold unheralded players into legit NHL prospects.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers Mailbag: Fixing the forward depth, slotting the big three, a Puljujarvi trade and more
  • Minnia Feng: The 2019-20 Oilers fan guide to emotions and stressful circumstances
  • Jonathan Willis: How much will the Oilers have to pay to keep pending free agent Zack Kassian?
  • Lowetide: Sheahan hurt, Oilers in need of a two-way centre; some candidates emerging
  • Jonathan Willis: Handicapping the chase for the Calder after the first month of the 2019-20 NHL season
  • Jonathan Willis: Unproductive Oilers forwards are in danger of losing their jobs — and soon
  • Lowetide: Analyzing the current state of the Edmonton Oilers goaltending.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘I don’t think anyone’s feeling comfortable’: Oilers’ Holland pleased but cautious amid early improvements.
  • Jonathan Willis: A rare success during Edmonton’s long rebuild, why Oscar Klefbom is the model for finishing Oilers’ blue line
  • Jonathan Willis: Can the Oilers afford to pursue Taylor Hall in free agency?
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

OILERS AFTER 19 GAMES

  • Oilers in 2015: 6-12-1, 13 points; goal differential -12
  • Oilers in 2016: 10-8-1, 21 points; goal differential +2
  • Oilers in 2017: 7-10-2, 16 points; goal differential -10
  • Oilers in 2018: 9-9-1, 19 points; goal differential -6
  • Oilers in 2019: 11-5-2, 24 points; goal differential +8

At 11-5-2, the Oilers delivered a breathtaking first chapter (7-1-0) and then fell to earth (4-4-2) in the 10 games that followed. The injured veterans are beginning to return and that should be good news. Adam Larsson is a week away, can Edmonton go 2-2-0 in the next four games?

OILERS IN NOVEMBER

  • Oilers in November 2015: 2-3-0, four points; goal differential -3
  • Oilers in November 2016: 2-2-1, five points; goal differential -3
  • Oilers in November 2017: 3-2-0, six points; goal differential 0
  • Oilers in November 2018: 2-3-0, four points; goal differential -3
  • Oilers in November 2019: 2-1-1, five points; goal differential +3

Edmonton hasn’t yet delivered a dominant November during the McDavid era, in fact a win today would give this year’s team the best record through five. Oilers were 9-4-1 in October, a repeat of that record in November would mean 38 points in 28 games. That’s a strong enough run to strongly suggest playoffs. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

WHAT TO EXPECT IN NOVEMBER

  • On the road to: PIT (Expected 0-1-0) (Actual 1-0-0)
  • At home to: ARI, STL, NJD (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 1-1-1)
  • On the road to: ANA, SJS (Expected 1-0-1)
  • At home to: COL, DAL (Expected 1-1-0)
  • On the road to: SJS, LAK, VEG, ARI, COL (Expected 2-3-0)
  • At home to: VAN (Expected 1-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 7-6-1, 15 points in 14 games
  • Current results: 2-1-1, 5 points after four games

Anaheim is 2-2-1 in its last five games and hasn’t played since a Tuesday night loss to the Minnesota Wild. Ducks are 6-2-1 at home this season. Edmonton has the percentage edge in five-on-five Corsi (48.5 to 47), shot share (49 to 47), goal share (53 to 42). Edmonton has 14 power-play goals in 84 minutes, Anaheim four power-play goals in 79 minutes.

OILERS 2019-20

Oilers hit the road with more healthy troops and a key will be that third line. Dave Tippett won’t be able to match up lines but if Sheahan’s line can hold its own that’s not as big a deal. Be prepared to be frustrated by the Ducks goaltender. He’s good.

CONDORS 2019-20

Tyler Benson delivered three goals last night, Brad Malone had a big night and the Condors won a game. Caleb Jones remains the best Bakersfield prospect, and Benson plus Yamamoto pushing. This should be a great team to follow winterlong.

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482 Responses to "2019-20 Game 19: Oilers at Ducks"

« Older Comments
  1. BONE207 says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    How about Drai and his (currently) 4 point night!
    Has a league leading 34 points right now!

    Seems we’ve acquired a few lazy players on this roster. When do the good times roll?

  2. striatic says:

    Play Nuge for the remaining 1:40 please.

  3. Professor Q says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    How about Drai and his (currently) 4 point night!
    Has a league leading 34 points right now!

    EDIT: and McDavid will be tied for 2nd in points with 30 after tonight!

    Let me guess that the NHL and TSN and what have you will talk up how great Pastrnak is during tomorrow’s circuit?

  4. Reja says:

    TeeVee:
    Lol the Chicken Hawk is lookin pretty rough.

    The Chicken Hawk needs a meat and potatoes meal prepared by Mama Kass.

  5. Gerta Rauss says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    Who was it that called a McD or Drai hat trick earlier in this thread?
    Great insight!

    I think it was Reja

  6. Gerta Rauss says:

    just pass it to Nuge

    *edit-a 2PP sighting..!!

    *edit2-it looks like the 4 line got some PP time

  7. BONE207 says:

    striatic:
    Play Nuge for the remaining 1:40 please.

    I endorse this comment

  8. striatic says:

    Put Nuge back on!

  9. jp says:

    Nurse-Bear on PP2?

  10. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    Oilers need to get Nuge his Hatty on this pp.
    Wouldn’t that be something eh? Two players on the same team getting hatty in the same game???

  11. Zelepukin says:

    Professor Q: Let me guess that the NHL and TSN and what have you will talk up how great Pastrnak is during tomorrow’s circuit?

    TBH, I’d prefer it. For whatever reason we play terrible after a couple days of media pumping our tires.

  12. leadfarmer says:

    Pretty solid outing for Koskinen
    Hope Tippett gives him 55-60% of the starts and Smith 40-45%
    He got his 1 year adjustment period but need to see if he can be someone you could roll into the playoffs with one year

  13. flyfish1168 says:

    leafs lose, shamps lose, Esks & Oilers win Perfect evening

  14. drglen says:

    not used to going into anaheim and kicking ass.

  15. BONE207 says:

    Crazy Pedestrian:
    Oilers need to get Nuge his Harry on this pp.Wouldn’t that be something a? Two players on the same team getting hatty in the same game???

    I don’t think Nugey can get a Harry anything…bad genes

  16. OriginalPouzar says:

    EDM- 26 points (19 games played)
    CGY – 23 points (20 games played)
    VAN – 21 points (18 games played)
    VEG – 21 points (19 games point)
    ARI – 20 points (17 games played)
    ANA – 19 points (18 games played)

    EDM- 0.684
    ARI – 0.588
    VAN – 0.583
    CGY – 0.575
    VEG- 0.552
    ANA –0.528

  17. Gerta Rauss says:

    That’s a strong win by this team

    I think we may have something here

  18. hunter1909 says:

    Ducks outshot the Oilers so there’s that.

  19. hunter1909 says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    That’s a strong win by this team

    I think we may have something here

    Snap!

  20. Material Elvis says:

    Full marks for the win. Top guys scored but I thought the entire team played a decent game.

  21. hunter1909 says:

    drglen:
    not used to going into anaheim and kicking ass.

    Dallas Eakins effect.

  22. hunter1909 says:

    In case anyone’s interested Dallas Eakins is talking to the Ducks television NHL people in a minute.

  23. Material Elvis says:

    hunter1909:
    Ducks outshot the Oilers so there’s that.

    Power play advantage.

  24. BONE207 says:

    I don’t care what anyone says…Kass rocks facial hair. Remember the sideburns….

  25. Material Elvis says:

    Moms have to be there for every game. They seem to be more focused.

  26. who says:

    Material Elvis: Persson is doing enough not to get Russelled out of 2RD.Goes to show you how much Tipp values the LD-RD setup.I actually think that Persson can move the puck decently.

    You know, a lot of posters say this, and I understand that was his reputation coming over from Sweden, but where are all those great outlet passes?
    Seems to me he either dumps it up the boards or lobs a grenade over to Klefbom.
    I haven’t seen too many tape to tape passes to a streaking forward.

  27. jp says:

    McDavid 16:19 TOI
    Draisaitl 17:35

    Haas at 9:52 the only Oiler under 12 minutes.

  28. BONE207 says:

    Material Elvis:
    Moms have to be there for every game.They seem to be more focused.

    Cuter too

  29. Material Elvis says:

    who: You know, a lot of posters say this, and I understand that was his reputation coming over from Sweden, but where are all those great outlet passes?
    Seems to me he either dumps it up the boards or lobs a grenade over to Klefbom.
    I haven’t seen too many tape to tape passes to a streaking forward.

    I see enough to keep him in there…for now.

  30. leadfarmer says:

    I’m surprised they don’t take the moms to Vegas
    But that might not be a good thing

  31. leadfarmer says:

    who: You know, a lot of posters say this, and I understand that was his reputation coming over from Sweden, but where are all those great outlet passes?
    Seems to me he either dumps it up the boards or lobs a grenade over to Klefbom.
    I haven’t seen too many tape to tape passes to a streaking forward.

    The Euros need some adjustment time to get used to the game
    Look how many people wanted to throw out Koskinen last year

  32. BONE207 says:

    leadfarmer:
    I’m surprised they don’t take the moms to Vegas
    But that might not be a good thing

    Australian showmen, Thunder Down Under, overtaken by a group of women dressed in blue & orange hockey jerseys. While the men were not harmed, they would like their g-strings back.

  33. who says:

    leadfarmer: The Euros need some adjustment time to get used to the game
    Look how many people wanted to throw out Koskinen last year

    So let him “adjust” in the AHL.
    I’m probably wasting my breath. He’s probably going down as soon as Larsson gets back.

  34. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    BONE207: I don’t think Nugey can get a Harry anything…bad genes

    Yeah… I edited that like 10 seconds after I posted it too and you still caught it…
    Blah!!

  35. BONE207 says:

    leadfarmer: The Euros need some adjustment time to get used to the game
    Look how many people wanted to throw out Koskinen last year

    Well, really it was only Op

  36. BONE207 says:

    Crazy Pedestrian: Yeah…I edited that like 10 seconds after I posted it too and you still caught it…
    Blah!!

    Too funny not to respond to. Typos around here have led to some of the best quotes.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp:
    Oilers handily disposing of a couple of bottom dwellers in the last few days.

    That’s the way it’s supposed to be if you’re a good team. More and more confidence that the current version of the Oilers truly are a good one.

    Edit: forgot the Ducks have been riding percentages to a quality record to this point. In any case, Go Oilers!

    Ducks were 6-2-2 at home prior to the game. Real bottom dwellers beat the Canucks and Knights both in regulation (and the Leafs).

    Oilers generally make average goalies look like Vezina-worthy players not Vezina-worthy players look average….

  38. TeeVee says:

    BONE207: Too funny not to respond to.Typos around here have led to some of the best quotes.

    I think someone here called Koski a giant Russian somewhere in the comments tonight.

  39. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp:
    Nurse-Bear on PP2?

    What a shocker…….

  40. BONE207 says:

    TeeVee: I think someone here called Koski a giant Russian somewhere in the comments tonight.

    Lol…wel he played there anyway. He also has an accent…🤣

  41. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    Pretty solid outing for Koskinen
    Hope Tippett gives him 55-60% of the starts and Smith 40-45%
    He got his 1 year adjustment period but need to see if he can be someone you could roll into the playoffs with one year

    I still go back to Smith on Tuesday.

  42. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp:
    McDavid 16:19 TOI
    Draisaitl 17:35

    Haas at 9:52 the only Oiler under 12 minutes.

    The only bottom 6 guy that doesn’t kill penalties.

    Those are lovely TOIs for the big 2.

  43. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: I still go back to Smith on Tuesday.

    Definitely. Smith is rested and will play well.

  44. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: The Euros need some adjustment time to get used to the game
    Look how many people wanted to throw out Koskinen last year

    True but lets not forget that, through the end of November last year, Koskinen was:

    11 games
    1.78 GAA
    0.938 Save Percentage

    I’m happy and optimistic but still a bit guarded.

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: So let him “adjust” in the AHL.
    I’m probably wasting my breath. He’s probably going down as soon as Larsson gets back.

    He probably is given the last few weeks.

    What would you do for the next three games (or so) before Larsson gets back?

  46. OriginalPouzar says:

    BONE: Well, really it was only Op

    Not even close

  47. Pouzar says:

    Nuge GF% 73.33

    Good night.

  48. BONE207 says:

    Pouzar:
    Nuge GF% 73.33

    Good night.

    What about our friend Darrell?

  49. Zelepukin says:

    who: You know, a lot of posters say this, and I understand that was his reputation coming over from Sweden, but where are all those great outlet passes?
    Seems to me he either dumps it up the boards or lobs a grenade over to Klefbom.
    I haven’t seen too many tape to tape passes to a streaking forward.

    Well the NHL has no comparison league and it’s a fool’s game to think success in any other league is going to translate to the NHL. Everything is done faster and in a smaller space against competition who have refined their game for those conditions.

    Persson definitely falls into the category of player who forgets they don’t have as much time as they think. Hopefully he watches a lot of game tape and figures it out, otherwise he won’t last long.

  50. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: He probably is given the last few weeks.

    What would you do for the next three games (or so) before Larsson gets back?

    I’d move either Russell or Benning up there. They are both better than Persson right now. Yes, even Russell on his right side is better. At least he can defend the middle of the ice.
    I’d bring up Jones and play him on the 3rd pairing with Russell or Benning.

  51. BONE207 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Not even close

    Ha…tell me how much you loved him…along with his contract. Make it gushing please…

  52. who says:

    Zelepukin: Well the NHL has no comparison league and it’s a fool’s game to think success in any other league is going to translate to the NHL. Everything is done faster and in a smaller space against competition who have refined their game for those conditions.

    Persson definitely falls into the category of player who forgets they don’t have as much time as they think. Hopefully he watches a lot of game tape and figures it out, otherwise he won’t last long.

    He may be able to adjust to less time and space.
    But seriously guys, watch him skate back to retrieve a puck. He is painfully slow. Am I the only person who sees this?

  53. Bismarck says:

    Probably been said already, but McD’s second goal was siiiiick!

  54. Pouzar says:

    BONE207: What about our friend Darrell?

    You have your Xmas tree up now don’t you???

  55. OriginalPouzar says:

    BONE: Ha…tell me much you loved him…along with his contract. Make it gushing please…

    Of course I admit my negativity on the player last year but I was far from alone – it was the majority position.

    Oh and, to Who, I just can’t get on board with Russell at 2RD – we’ve seen the results, it effects so much more than the one position out of the 20 – it effects all four in the bottom two pairings – if effects the forwards – it doesn’t work. Persson there, even with mistakes, works better as it keeps everything more balanced, it keeps Manning out of the lineup, it keeps Russell in the job he is suited for. There is a negative domino effect.

  56. Pouzar says:

    who: Am I the only person who sees this?

    I feel your pain. #Granlund

  57. BONE207 says:

    Pouzar: You have your Xmas tree up now don’t you???

    Ahem…well we have snow so I thought what the hell. Odds are something nice rolls under it too.

  58. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Persson is having trouble with speed of the game and how quick players get in on him more than his overall D-game but, yes, he may very well be better served with some AHL time and that’s the likely scenario when Larsson come back.

    Until them (not long), its important to the team that he stays at 2RD and at least treads water.The team is 8-1-1 when he plays there but not just because of his play, which has been up and down, but the team is 8-1-1 when Manning is not playing and 8-1-1 when Russell lines up with Benning on the 3rd pairing.

    I wouldn’t be against Persson being switched with Jones but the other two pairs need to stay the same and Manning needs to stay not in the lineup.

    Jones is having a fantastic start to the season – he just needs the call.

    Do you get paid to promote Jones. He is a good D but plays the one position the Oilers are strongest at.
    He will get his chance but in my opinion not until they are able to move Russel.

  59. BONE207 says:

    pts2pndr: Do you get paid to promote Jones.

    He’s like a photocopier…he gets paid a click charge.

  60. Pouzar says:

    Son of Chia CF% 54.90 this season.

    EDIT: Good Night.

  61. BONE207 says:

    Pouzar:
    Son of Chia CF% 54.90 this season.

    EDIT: Good Night.

    That’s not Darrell

  62. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    OriginalPouzar: Of course I admit my negativity on the player last year but I was far from alone – it was the majority position.

    Memory lane flashback alert.

    So …. as long as others are doing it … it’s OK? My mom had a very different opinion on that and similar subjects, which she didn’t hesitate to remind me of on a fairly regular basis. Bet your mom did too. I’m also betting you didn’t intend that to come across the way it turned out. Pretty funny though.

  63. Twinkle Mo' Fo' Toes says:

    godot10: The Oilers don’t lose when he is in the lineup for the full game.Below Bettman 500 when he does not.i.e. Results tell us he is the best option of those currently available.

    This is an amazing stzt. I wonder how superstitious Tippett is..

    I guess we’ll find out when Larsson is back.

  64. pts2pndr says:

    BONE207: He’s like a photocopier…he gets paid a click charge.

    ✌️Thanks I needed that.

  65. pts2pndr says:

    hunter1909: Dallas Eakins effect.

    Eakins hasn’t gotten a whole lot smarter (low bar ). Having to listen to Drew ( a legend in his own mind ) Remenda and his obvious bias to all not Oilers, I now have a much greater appreciation for center ice and not having to listen to him. The feed from the opposition is fair, rational and logical in comparrison.. It is sad that I have to go to an opponents feed to get a unbiased opinion.

  66. kgo says:

    First time I’ve ever seen the 3 California teams holding down the bottom 3 spots in our division…it’s a beautiful thing.

  67. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: Of course I admit my negativity on the player last year but I was far from alone – it was the majority position.

    Oh and, to Who, I just can’t get on board with Russell at 2RD – we’ve seen the results, it effects so much more than the one position out of the 20 – it effects all four in the bottom two pairings – if effects the forwards – it doesn’t work.Persson there, even with mistakes, works better as it keeps everything more balanced, it keeps Manning out of the lineup, it keeps Russell in the job he is suited for. There is a negative domino effect.

    This is the same argument you used for Kassian last fall.
    Russell can’t play 2RD.
    Russell is best suited for 3LD. Sure, but if he’s the best option you got for 2RD? Tippett seems to think he is, when Persson is out.
    And please don’t give me the 9 goals in 7 games with Persson out of the lineup argument. If you think Persson is responsible for an uptick in offense you’re not watching the games. You’re just reading the stats sheet.

  68. Reja says:

    pts2pndr: Eakins hasn’t gotten a whole lot smarter (low bar ).Having to listen to Drew ( a legend in his own mind ) Remenda and his obvious bias to all not Oilers,I now have a much greater appreciation for center ice and not having to listen to him. The feed from the opposition is fair, rational and logical in comparrison.. It is sad that I have to go to an opponents feed to get a unbiased opinion.

    There has to be some way we can leave Drew in San Jose. Every penalty we take is a great call by the ref and when we get a call numb nuts thinks it’s debatable, never mind a challenge we all know who he’s siding with and its not the Oilers. I usually listen to the away feed if possible Mcdavid and the Oilers deserve a announcer that actually cheers for the team and not this twit.

  69. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: Do you get paid to promote Jones. He is a goodD but plays the one position the Oilers are strongest at.
    He will get his chance but in my opinion not until they are able to move Russel.

    Huh? This is the first time I’ve “promoted Jones” all year long – I was “promoting” Lagesson over him during the off-season and camp.

    You may be thinking of Wilde with respect to “promoting Jones”.

    Anyways, I’m 100% fine with doing nothing with the D until Larsson is back but I’m speaking to those that think Persson needs to be moved to the minors and my premise is that, if a move is to be made, its important to not move Russell off 3LD and/or Manning in the lineup so, if the coach feels he has to make a move, I would be for Jones taking over for Persson until Larsson is back – keep the third pairing as it is (given Tippett/Playfair won’t move Benning to 2RD).

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    DecidedlySkepticalFan: Memory lane flashback alert.

    So …. as long as others are doing it … it’s OK? My mom had a very different opinion on that and similar subjects, which she didn’t hesitate to remind me of on a fairly regular basis. Bet your mom did too. I’m also betting you didn’t intend that to come across the way it turned out. Pretty funny though.

    Feel free to go back and review the context of the posts – my post was in response to the position that I was essentially the only one “running Koskinen out of town” – simply pointing out that is factually correct and far from reality.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: This is the same argument you used for Kassian last fall.
    Russell can’t play 2RD.
    Russell is best suited for 3LD. Sure,but if he’s the best option you got for 2RD? Tippett seems to think he is, when Persson is out.
    And please don’t give me the 9 goals in 7 games with Persson out of the lineup argument. If you think Persson is responsible for an uptick in offense you’re not watching the games. You’re just reading the stats sheet.

    Tippett clearly thinks that Persson, even a stuggling and developing Persson, is the better option at 2RD than Russell.

    Tippett, a coach that likes his veterans, used two rookie d-man with a combined 18 NHL games as his two top right side d-men instead of moving Russell to 2RD – that shows how much he wants to keep Russell on the left side and at 3LD.

    Nope, Persson alone at 2RD does not help the goal scoring but that, combined with Russell on the left side, combined with Russell in the third pairing, combined with Manning not in the lineup – that all surely does.

    Its not a Persson think, its a balance thing and a “putting players in their proper position”. Moving Russell to 2RD effects 4 d-men negatively – that’s the problem.

  72. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: What a shocker…….

    They’ve played almost 11 minutes 5v4 together this year.

    We don’t see it often, but they are both on PP2 and have been for most of the season.

  73. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: Tippett clearly thinks that Persson, even a stuggling and developing Persson, is the better option at 2RD than Russell.

    Tippett, a coach that likes his veterans, used two rookie d-man with a combined 18 NHL games as his two top right side d-men instead of moving Russell to 2RD – that shows how much he wants to keep Russell on the left side and at 3LD.

    Nope, Persson alone at 2RD does not help the goal scoring but that, combined with Russell on the left side, combined with Russell in the third pairing, combined with Manning not in the lineup – that all surely does.

    Its not a Persson think, its a balance thing and a “putting players in their proper position”.Moving Russell to 2RD effects 4 d-men negatively – that’s the problem.

    This is correct, OP. You may have to use a cause and effect diagram to get this point across.

  74. Woodguy v2.0 says:


    @iltasanomat
    Jesse Puljujärvi paljasti Ruotsi-ottelun jälkeen: ”Pelaan kauden loppuun asti Kärpissä”

    Translated from Finnish by Google

    Jesse Puljujärvi revealed after Sweden match: “I will play in Kärp until the end of the season”

    Jesse says he’s staying for year.

    We’ll see.

  75. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Oh and, to Who, I just can’t get on board with Russell at 2RD – we’ve seen the results, it effects so much more than the one position out of the 20 – it effects all four in the bottom two pairings – if effects the forwards – it doesn’t work.Persson there, even with mistakes, works better as it keeps everything more balanced, it keeps Manning out of the lineup, it keeps Russell in the job he is suited for. There is a negative domino effect.

    I just can’t get behind this position. I know the record with and without Persson, and it got better last night.

    And full disclosure, I would keep Persson at 2RD for the time being, so I’m not among those who thinks Persson needs to go. But that’s based more on him potentially having more to give than his play to this point (or than the domino effect he has on the other D).

    So what’s happened with the D pairings on the ice with Persson in the lineup and without?
    With Persson:
    Klefbom-Persson 137min 7GF-7GA (50%)
    Russell-Benning 132min 7GF-1GA (87.5%)

    Without Persson:
    Klefbom-Russell 127min 2GF-2GA (50%)
    Manning-Benning 72min 1GF-1GA (50%)

    So the difference between the two situations is Russell-Benning crushing 3rd pair opposition. Also less goals being scored with Persson out (in line with the 9GF in 7 games he missed, but it’s pretty clear GA went down with Persson out too).

    Do we think the above numbers are sustainable? Are they reflected in the underlying metrics?
    With Persson:
    Klefbom-Persson 42.1SF% 48.1xGF%
    Russell-Benning 51.6SF% 44.5xGF%

    Without Persson:
    Klefbom-Russell 42.6SF% 45.0xGF%
    Manning-Benning 55.8SF% 52.3xGF%

    Not really. The aggregate shot and xGF numbers are slightly better without Persson, but there’s not much to choose. The only pairing that’s outscored in real life (Russell-Benning) has an xGF% under 45%. The only positive xGF% pairing (Manning-Benning) is one many think needs to be avoided at all costs.

    Anyway, as I said I agree with you in the big picture about Persson and Russell and where they fit in the lineup. But this narrative about the effect of Persson vs Russell at 2RD has been bugging me. It looks like the different results with and without Persson are blind damn luck more than anything else.

  76. jp says:

    Woodguy v2.0: They’ve played almost 11 minutes 5v4 together this year.

    We don’t see it often, but they are both on PP2 and have been for most of the season.

    He agrees. It’s in reference to a discussion from a day or two ago about whether we “know” that Bear is favored on PP2 over Persson.

  77. godot10 says:

    who: I’d move either Russell or Benning up there. They are both better than Persson right now. Yes, even Russell on his right side is better. At least he can defend the middle of the ice.
    I’d bring up Jones and play him on the 3rd pairing with Russell or Benning.

    Except the Oilers lose when they move Russell up to the top 4, and win when Persson plays the top 4.

    Winning ugly with Persson is fine with me. The pucks get moved with Persson.

  78. godot10 says:

    BONE207: That’s not Darrell

    Darnell is playing the toughest minutes with a rookie and the Oilers are winning.

    Larry Robinson made mistakes too, more than Savard, and Lapointe.

  79. godot10 says:

    Twinkle Mo’ Fo’ Toes: This is an amazing stzt.I wonder how superstitious Tippett is..

    I guess we’ll find out when Larsson is back.

    Once Larsson is back up to speed, I can see Persson getting sent down till the new year to work on his game in a less stressful environment, so he can bring more of it when he gets called back up.

  80. godot10 says:

    jp: I just can’t get behind this position. I know the record with and without Persson, and it got better last night.

    And full disclosure, I would keep Persson at 2RD for the time being, so I’m not among those who thinks Persson needs to go. But that’s based more on him potentially having more to give than his play to this point (or than the domino effect he has on the other D).

    So what’s happened with the D pairings on the ice with Persson in the lineup and without?
    With Persson:
    Klefbom-Persson 137min 7GF-7GA (50%)
    Russell-Benning 132min 7GF-1GA (87.5%)

    Without Persson:
    Klefbom-Russell 127min 2GF-2GA (50%)
    Manning-Benning 72min 1GF-1GA (50%)

    So the difference between the two situations is Russell-Benning crushing 3rd pair opposition. Also less goals being scored with Persson out (in line with the 9GF in 7 games he missed, but it’s pretty clear GA went down with Persson out too).

    Do we think the above numbers are sustainable? Are they reflected in the underlying metrics?
    With Persson:
    Klefbom-Persson 42.1SF% 48.1xGF%
    Russell-Benning 51.6SF% 44.5xGF%

    Without Persson:
    Klefbom-Russell 42.6SF% 45.0xGF%
    Manning-Benning 55.8SF% 52.3xGF%

    Not really. The aggregate shot and xGF numbers are slightly better without Persson, but there’s not much to choose. The only pairing that’s outscored in real life (Russell-Benning) has an xGF% under 45%. The only positive xGF% pairing (Manning-Benning) is one many think needs to be avoided at all costs.

    Anyway, as I said I agree with you in the big picture about Persson and Russell and where they fit in the lineup. But this narrative about the effect of Persson vs Russell at 2RD has been bugging me. It looks like the different results with and without Persson are blind damn luck more than anything else.

    McDavid’s and Draisaitl’s even strength offense disappears when Russell plays in the top 4. Hence, the Oilers lose.

  81. jp says:

    godot10: McDavid’s and Draisaitl’s even strength offense disappears when Russell plays in the top 4.Hence, the Oilers lose.

    They don’t get outscored any more with Russell than Persson though. Identical goal differential. Your position makes no sense.

  82. John Chambers says:

    Wow, Don Cherry fired by SportsNet.

    Undoubtedly Cherry is “behind the times”, and it’s rare to let someone freely riff insensitive remarks, but as another poster here has mentioned there is an element of ageism and free speech suppression that irks me about SportsNet’s response.

    I feel lucky to have been brought up around diversity, and to live in a time when we benefit from having folks from everywhere integrate their way into contemporary Canada. Undoubtedly everyone in Canada, young or old, etc etc should embrace tolerance, but that should include tolerance for people, like Cherry, who make obnoxious remarks.

    Donald S Cherry has been tooting his horn since I can remember. We all know who he is, what he stands for, and his occasional “cranky old man” remark. The man wears his heart on his sleeve about things that are legitimately important to the Canadian heritage, and once in a while delivers an eye-roller that sounds dumb far more than it sounds offensive. I’ve known this since before I was a teenager, and that was 30 years ago.

    SportsNet knew the personality. They kept him all the same, without editorial oversight or a 10-second delay. They relied on the calm presence of Ron McLean, a salve that works most of the time.

    I don’t care much for Cherry and would’ve been happy to see him retired a decade ago, but I blame SportsNet for not figuring this out before its inevitably sad conclusion.

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