Nothing Rhymed

The best story around the Edmonton Oilers yesterday was probably Kirill Maksimov, who scored a goal and added an assist in an overtime loss to the Stockton Heat. Maksimov, along with Tyler Benson and Kailer Yamamoto, represents the most promising skill wingers in the system. He’s many miles from the NHL, but small victories are big steps.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here.

  • New Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Leon Draisaitl takes the blame as the Oilers’ struggles against lowly foes continues
  • Jonathan Willis: A list of which Oilers are most likely to be traded in 2019-20
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Woodcroft on Benson’s ‘gift,’ the next step for Bouchard and acting like a proud parent watching the Oilers
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ No. 2 prospect winter 2019: Philip Broberg
  • Lowetide: Joel Persson’s demotion highlights difficult adjustment for Oilers’ ‘European showtime’ trio
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman and Jonathan Willis: Evaluating the Oilers’ readiness for the 2021 Seattle expansion draft
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ No. 1 prospect winter 2019: Evan Bouchard
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ college procurement could increase under Ken Holland
  • Jonathan Willis: A shift-by-shift analysis of Caleb Jones in his Oilers season debut
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘Sometimes it’s just unstoppable’: How McDavid and the Oilers’ power play dominated the Avalanche
  • Jonathan Willis: Darnell Nurse, Caleb Jones and the crisis that’s looming in the Oilers’ middle distance
  • Jonathan Willis: Basically, yes, the Oilers should keep Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ‘forever’
  • Lowetide: Why the recall of NHL-ready Caleb Jones should benefit the Oilers in the long run
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers Report Cards: Several drivers make the grade but Edmonton’s bus still has a few passengers
  • Daniel Nugent-BowmanFrom 4 to 97, Oilers both new and old share the stories behind their jersey numbers
  • Jonathan Willis: Could a fall trade improve the fortunes of your NHL team in 2019-20?
  • Lowetide: Analyzing Dave Tippett’s defensive usage and what the Oilers will do when Adam Larsson returns
  • Lowetide: What’s going on with the Bakersfield Condors?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins shines, mad props for Leon Draisaitl and more to like as the Oilers beat the Devils
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What inexperienced defencemen like the Oilers’ Joel Persson must do to gain their coach’s confidence
  • Lowetide: Oilers are closer to having an effective second line than a year ago, but few have noticed
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: The beauty of a good night’s sleep can be elusive for many NHL players

OILERS AFTER 24 GAMES

  • Oilers in 2015: 8-14-2, 18 points; goal differential -13
  • Oilers in 2016: 12-10-2, 26 points; goal differential +7
  • Oilers in 2017: 9-13-2, 20 points; goal differential -14
  • Oilers in 2018: 11-11-2, 24 points; goal differential -11
  • Oilers in 2019: 14-7-3, 31 points; goal differential +11

This year’s model remains the class of the group and honestly has no clear comparable. That 2016 team is going to catch this group, but through 24 games this is the best McDavid team.

OILERS IN NOVEMBER

  • Oilers in November 2015: 3-6-1, seven points; goal differential -5
  • Oilers in November 2016: 3-6-1, seven points; goal differential -8
  • Oilers in November 2017: 4-5-1, nine points; goal differential 0
  • Oilers in November 2018: 4-6-0, eight points; goal differential -6
  • Oilers in November 2019: 5-3-2, 12 points, goal differential +6

Different angle, same result. No matter how angry and frustrated you are about last night, this bunch has been carrying the mail compared to their predecessors.

WHAT TO EXPECT IN NOVEMBER

  • On the road to: PIT (Expected 0-1-0) (Actual 1-0-0)
  • At home to: ARI, STL, NJD (Expected 2-1-0) (Actual 1-1-1)
  • On the road to: ANA, SJS (Expected 1-0-1) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • At home to: COL, DAL (Expected 1-1-0) (Actual 1-0-1)
  • On the road to: SJS, LAK, VEG, ARI, COL (Expected 2-3-0) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • At home to: VAN (Expected 1-0-0)
  • Overall expected result: 7-6-1, 15 points in 14 games
  • Current results: 5-3-2, 12 points in 10 games

One thing that I suspect will be true: The Oilers will play better in Vegas on Saturday. There will be a burr under their saddles after this game. That means we’ll have a great game to watch on Saturday night at The Rec Room. Are you going to be there? Click this link to book tickets and there’s some information in there about free drink tickets and a few other details. Hope to see you!

OILERS 2019-20

There was a lot of poor play and lack of execution last night, it’s all contained in this NST page. As the lines got jumbled during the game, I’m going to do a player by player summary. All numbers five-on-five unless otherwise noted.

Leon Draisaitl had three shots and two HDSC, lost coverage on the 3-0 goal and was generally poor on the evening. His postgame was something else, he was accountable. He made a 50-50 pass to 97 to turn over the puck in the neutral zone and then released Carter in the goal’s key decision. Connor McDavid scored a nice goal to give some hope early in the second period but lost coverage on Kopitar’s goal, giving him an open look. Caleb Jones lost the initial battle to Kopitar, no sin for a rookie. Ethan Bear got caught flat-footed on the Toffoli goal, although that was a helluva pass. You’d like better coverage there but that’s a tough play.

Joakim Nygard gets less out of breakaways than Todd Marchant and that’s saying something. I kid, but it would be nice to see him cash one of those. Adam Larsson was fine in his return, made safe plays and battled. Alex Chiasson is betwixt and between now, he needs a goal to go in here and get some confidence. Darnell Nurse had a good game, turned over the puck deep in LAK’s zone that would eventually result in a goal but many things happened after. I would have liked him to haul ass back, but Leon had the position covered. Low percentage play though, Darnell waiting in the offensive zone in hopes of a misfire on the clear. He damn near scored later.

Gaetan Haas drew a penalty but he has a bad habit of not stopping events, either by falling down or being slow to execute. I like him. James Neal had one of his pedestrian games. Josh Archibald played well to my eye, would like to see one of those chances go in. Great PK. Jujhar Khaira worked hard (got hurt doing it) but didn’t have an offensive sortie of note. He needs to find a way to get involved in the offense every night.

Kris Russell played his normal game, led the PK crew with 7:16 and was effective. Markus Granlund didn’t get much done offensively but is part of the PK rotation again (replacing Patrick Russell, who did not dress). Oscar Klefbom was probably Edmonton’s best player, his consistency is vital to this team. Riley Sheahan was five of eight in the dot at five-on-five and played a clean 5:46 on the PK.

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins had one 10-bell chance and won five of eight in the dot. Played well but didn’t have an impact. Zack Kassian skated miles, hit everything and was part of some promising beginnings but nothing rhymed. Mike Smith stopped nine of 12, .750. He was poor. Mikko Koskinen was far better, giving up two while stopping 16 of 18, .889. I expect we’ll be seeing more of Koskinen in the coming days.

Lots of chatter after the game about the Oilers falling flat against poor teams. I’m not sure it has much to do with quality of opponent, seems to me this Oilers team is trying to find consistency. It’s also true we’re seeing regression, Mike Smith’s performance last night was proof it still exists even after an outstanding start.

CONDORS 2019-20

The lines and pairings are courtesy our friend Wilde inside yesterday’s game thread. Maksimov’s push came because Kailer Yamamoto was out, that young man needs to stay healthy. A nice push also for Ryan McLeod, as you know my concern about him is offense and that’s a very nice spot for him to increase the boxcars. Most likely forward recall? Tyler Benson.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, TSN1260. We’ll have Steve Lansky from Big Mouth Sports to talk Oilers, Maple Leafs and Grey Cup. Matthew Iwanyk will pop in at 11 and we’ll preview the Grey Cup and Dave Jamieson will join us live from media row in Calgary as things gear up for the big game. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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195 Responses to "Nothing Rhymed"

  1. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    19/20
    EDM Goal Share after 24 games (14-7-3)

    Even strength (5v5,4v4,3v3)
    McDavid On Ice 30-21 (59%)
    McDavid Off Ice 22-29 (43%)
    Net EV = +2

    Sp. Teams (PP+SH For–PK+SH Against)
    22-12
    Net ST +10

    Empty Net
    2-5
    Net EN = -3

    SO & PS
    1-1
    SO & PS = Even

    Net Goal Differential +9

  2. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    I posted a table of historical 97-29 results.

    Some of you may find it interesting:

    https://twitter.com/Woodguy55/status/1197898377582637062

  3. verdad2.0 says:

    The Kings have alpha males, the Oilers not so much.
    And a goalie that can actually play.
    Holland continues to do nothing.

  4. BONE207 says:

    Well it’s official…CONNOR is the best hockey player in the world…along with Leon.

    It seems the entire organization has secondary scoring issues. I wonder how long before that can be fixed

  5. JJS says:

    As we have noted before, against lesser competition, McD and Dr Drais are so focused on breaking the zone that they are a step behind if the puck gets turned over in our end

    The result = many high quality shots against, particularly early in games

    Against better teams, the defensive formation improves

    Tip needs to get them to calm down for half the first period until the game develops a pulse

    Once settled, they can start pushing hard

  6. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    JJS:
    As we have noted before, against lesser competition, McD and Dr Drais are so focused on breaking the zone that they are a step behind if the puck gets turned over in our end

    The result = many high quality shots against, particularly early in games

    Against better teams, the defensive formation improves

    Tip needs to get them to calm down for half the first period until the game develops a pulse

    Once settled, they can start pushing hard

    Yes. I don’t like seeing bad habits becoming established.

  7. dustrock says:

    Didn’t watch, but was this Carter’s 1000th game?

    How much money was on the board last night?

    Would love to see home team records when one of their players has reason to put up money on the board.

  8. GMB3 says:

    JJS:
    As we have noted before, against lesser competition, McD and Dr Drais are so focused on breaking the zone that they are a step behind if the puck gets turned over in our end

    The result = many high quality shots against, particularly early in games

    Against better teams, the defensive formation improves

    Tip needs to get them to calm down for half the first period until the game develops a pulse

    Once settled, they can start pushing hard

    It’s not just the first part of the game. They were poor in the third period against Dallas. They just need to be more responsible in their own end.

  9. JimmyV1965 says:

    verdad2.0:
    The Kings have alpha males, the Oilers not so much.
    And a goalie that can actually play.
    Holland continues to do nothing.

    If you’re going to be a twit, at least make an effort. You’re the L.A. Kings, or better yet, the alpha male of trolls.

  10. meanashell11 says:

    LA tied the team up and the refs let them get away with it. I think we spent too much time using sticks to get at pucks and did not take the body enough. They were not willing to pay the price thinking the could get by waving their stick around. Kass tried but the entire team needed to get on it. I was watching McD thinking will he ever throw the body like Syd does at times…….

  11. OriginalPouzar says:

    Last night was disappointing and a wasted opportunity, however, I woke up this morning, November 22, and the Oilers have a 3 point lead in the Pacific division.

    The Oilers can lose all their games in regulation through American Thanksgiving and all other teams chasing them can gain all their points in that frame and the Oilers will still be in a playoff spot.

    Life is good for Oilers fans!

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    Maksimov was also plus 3 with 4 shots on net yesterday morning – his first real chance with some more offensive opportunities and he made the most of it.

    Is this a one-off or the start of a bit of a push for the rookie? Yesterday was the first of 6 games in 10 days for the Condors so we will find out.

  13. OriginalPouzar says:

    The man is a leader:

    “If your supposedly best players play the way I did,” said Leon Draisaitl after a 5-1 loss to the last place Los Angeles Kings, “you’re not gonna go very far.”

  14. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: Nah, he wasn’t quite this bad.

    0.8 P/60 so far. He was better than that (still bad, mind you) even without McDavid/Draisaitl/Nuge last year.

    He was 0.87 P/60 in the last 40 games of last year……

  15. Reja says:

    Pouzar:
    Yeah…I was watching last night thinking…I wish we were the Kings.

    I was watching and thinking man the kings are stifling after I regained consciousness the thought turned to God the Kings are boring who could watch this team nightly.

  16. JimmyV1965 says:

    Nuge looks off. Wonder if he’s playing with an injury.

  17. dustrock says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Nuge looks off. Wonder if he’s playing with an injury.

    LT’s “played well but didn’t have an impact” is about 50% of Nuge’s games.

  18. godot10 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I posted a table of historical 97-29 results.

    Some of you may find it interesting:

    https://twitter.com/Woodguy55/status/1197898377582637062

    CF% + SH% (Their “godot” is effectively a constant.)

    16-17 64.5
    17-18 63.9
    18-19 63.3
    19-20 63.4

  19. Darth Tu says:

    Reja: I was watching and thinking man the kings are stiflingafter I regained consciousness the thought turned to God the Kings are boringwho could watch this team nightly.

    Yeah, once they had a 2 goal lead the Kings did a very good job of lining up on the blue line and forcing the Oilers to dump and chase. They’re not a fun team to watch at all but I can see why they’ve started winning a few games.

    No excuses though, the Oilers looked a few steps slower than the San Jose game and struggled to get anything going. If Nygard had sunk one of those breakaway chances maybe the game would have turned out different, but poor performance overall.

  20. Bag of Pucks says:

    JimmyV1965: If you’re going to be a twit, at least make an effort. You’re the L.A. Kings, or better yet, the alpha male of trolls.

    Tough I know, but the best thing to do with trolls is ignore them. They’re just looking for a reaction.

    I do wonder how marginalized someone’s real life has to be when they’re antagonizing people on the Internet just to get a rise? Pretty pathetic.

  21. godot10 says:

    godot10: CF% + SH% (Their “godot” is effectively a constant.)

    16-1764.5
    17-1863.9
    18-1963.3
    19-2063.4

    Suggests that someone might want to test if CF%+SH% is a better proxy for possession than just CF%

  22. russ99 says:

    The resting on laurels and not showing up the game after an especially hopeful win was an issue with the 2016 group too, hope Holland gets them to turn the corner.

  23. godot10 says:

    Draisaitl, McDavid, and Kassian have to figure out that an ounce of prevention feels much less bad than a truckload of minuses.

  24. Reja says:

    Darth Tu: Yeah, once they had a 2 goal lead the Kings did a very good job of lining up on the blue line and forcing the Oilers to dump and chase.They’re not a fun team to watch at all but I can see why they’ve started winning a few games.

    No excuses though, the Oilers looked a few steps slower than the San Jose game and struggled to get anything going. If Nygard had sunk one of those breakaway chances maybe the game would have turned out different, but poor performance overall.

    1st goal for or against is huge never mind the second especially on the road if the opposition scores first they clamp down harder on McDavid’s line and wait for the odd man rush the other way. No way we should’ve been down 3-0 after the first Smith couldn’t make a save.

  25. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: CF% + SH% (Their “godot” is effectively a constant.)

    16-1764.5
    17-1863.9
    18-1963.3
    19-2063.4

    So what are you measuring by combing those two?

    What is the average Godot for NHL players?

    Context man, I need context!!

  26. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Suggests that someone might want to test if CF%+SH% is a better proxy for possession than just CF%

    I don’t see how SH% can relate to possession.

    “Effectiveness of possession” maybe (need a massive sample if you’re using ONSH% to punt the noise)

  27. Darth Tu says:

    Reja: 1st goal for or against is huge never mind the second especially on the road if the opposition scores first they clamp down harder on McDavid’s line and wait for the odd man rush the other way. No way we should’vebeen down 3-0 after the first Smith couldn’t make a save.

    Agreed. I like Smith, but last night was one of his clanger evenings. Koskinen definitely steadied the ship a bit. I wonder if he’d saved that 3-0 shot at the end of the first how it would have went.

    Once the clamp down began I could see why Tippet was juggling the lines to try and get some clean air for McDavid and/or Draisatl, but the Kings seemed fine with whatever combo was thrown at them.

    Onwards and upwards, I still think 2-3-0 is a reasonable return for this road trip. Still on track.

  28. verdad2.0 says:

    JimmyV1965,

    He is always off

  29. godot10 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: So what are you measuring by combing those two?

    What is the average Godot for NHL players?

    Context man, I need context!!

    Hypothesis: When the shooting percentage goes up, one loses Corsi For events. It is a “correction” for Corsi for shot quality or shooting shill.

    McDavid’s and Draisaitl’s CF% went down as their SH% went up. They lost rebound shots and shots from extended cycles from their Corsi events. Or may be reflective of more goals off the rush.

    People might be concerned that their CF% was down this year and last. It may be only that they have become more efficient offensively. i.e. needing fewer shots to score.

  30. Wilde says:

    Maksimov had an unreal game. Unreal. I’ll have video of it later, but, statistically, at 5v5:

    4 shots(CF), 3 shot assists, 1 goal, 1 primary assist

    Maksimov on, CF – CA / / +/- (CF%)

    22 – 9 / / +13 (70.97%)

    Maksimov off, CF – CA / / +/- (CF%)

    27 – 23 / / +4 (54.00%)

    Maksimov on, GF – GA

    3 – 0

    Maksimov off, GF – GA

    0 – 2

    That comes together for a Condors-high 2.92 Game Score.

    As in, that’s the highest by any Condor this season – next closest were some of the nutty Gambardella-Yamamoto games (2.88 Yamamoto’s highest).

    OP mentioned this, but just to reiterate this was the first game he was used in a feature role. As far as I’m concerned, he should have to have a few bad games in a row to have it taken away. I know it’s one game, but again, his ‘one game’ shouldn’t have been this dominant.

  31. hunter1909 says:

    Hunter1909DeathMarch™

    Seeks Web Designer for WordPress site.

    For vital upgrades to the http://www.oilersdeathmarch.com website.

    Pays cash.

    For more info please contact the Death March team via the website. Or alternatively:

    hunter2909@Safe-mail.net

  32. Munny says:

    hunter1909:
    Hunter1909DeathMarch™

    Seeks Web Designer for WordPress site.

    For vital upgrades to the http://www.oilersdeathmarch.com website.

    Pays cash.

    For more info please contact the Death March team via the website. Or alternatively:

    hunter2909@Safe-mail.net

    I’m guessing that since you’ve had a couple of offers that you need something more specific than a “Web designer”, Hunter?

    I’m guessing you need or want a database guy?

  33. S1R_McJesus_the_1st says:

    I’ve held this opinion since the beginning of the season.. but we need more Koskinen and less Smith going forward.

  34. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Hypothesis: When the shooting percentage goes up, one loses Corsi For events.It is a “correction” for Corsi for shot quality or shooting shill.

    McDavid’s and Draisaitl’s CF% went down as their SH% went up.They lost rebound shots and shots from extended cycles from their Corsi events.Or may be reflective of more goals off the rush.

    People might be concerned that their CF% was down this year and last.It may be only that they have become more efficient offensively.i.e. needing fewer shots to score.

    Hmmmmm.

    Interesting.

    I’d need to see a lot of data to see if holds water though.

    Wanna do that?

  35. Bag of Pucks says:

    S1R_McJesus_the_1st:
    I’ve held this opinion since the beginning of the season.. but we need more Koskinen and less Smith going forward.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we continue to see a fairly equal workload for both going forward. The load management trend is gaining steam in the NHL, particularly for goalies.

    The Islanders alternate their starters like clockwork, and that is even with Greiss on a world class heater.

    A heavier workload could have a negative impact on Koski.

  36. Bag of Pucks says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Hmmmmm.

    Interesting.

    I’d need to see a lot of data to see if holds water though.

    Wanna do that?

    I would love to see you as a regular panelist on parole board hearings.

    “Oh, so you’re a good boy now who no longer feels the urge to murder and rape? Do you have any numbers to back up that claim?”

  37. GMB3 says:

    Wilde,

    Wasn’t that his MO throughout junior though? Absolutely dominant at times, relatively non-existent at others?

  38. S1R_McJesus_the_1st says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    True it could, but there’s still a chance he thrives with a bit more playing time. This is a completely different team defence in front of him compared to last year. Would like to see a little tweak, maybe 2 starts for Koskinen, 1 start for Smith.. instead of the 2 and 2.

  39. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: He was 0.87 P/60 in the last 40 games of last year……

    Hmmm. That’s pretty bad. Nm.

  40. Buddy says:

    I don’t normally read the site during Oilers games, because I’m usually watching behind real time on the PVR, but yesterday’s game had very little entertainment value so I became distracted and read the site as I watched.

    And I was really struck by the austere beauty of Verdad’s posts, sparse, simple, poetic, almost haiku-like in their structure and sharpness.

    So I tried to come up with a genuine haiku in response, with a 5-7-5 syllable per line structure.

    Trolling poster mocks
    weak and hungover effort.
    Hunter sobs alone.

    This was more difficult than I anticipated, and the chair became quite comfortable as I mulled over various possibilities.

    Then at some point in the third period, Mrs. Buddy shook my shoulders and said, “You’re sleeping, the Oilers are playing like crap, go to bed.”

  41. Reja says:

    S1R_McJesus_the_1st:
    Bag of Pucks,

    True it could, but there’s still a chance he thrives with a bit more playing time. This is a completely different team defence in front of him compared to last year. Would like to see a little tweak, maybe 2 starts for Koskinen, 1 start for Smith.. instead of the 2 and 2.

    Why mess with a good thing keep Kosh at a KHL schedule if Kosh loses confidence and Smith pulls a groin we’re finished. Smith will bounce back it’s not his first Rodeo he doesn’t get rattled for long.

  42. Darth Tu says:

    Buddy:
    I don’t normally read the site during Oilers games, because I’m usually watching behind real time on the PVR, but yesterday’s game had very little entertainment value so I became distracted and read the site as I watched.

    And I was really struck by the austere beauty of Verdad’s posts, sparse, simple, poetic, almost haiku-like in their structure and sharpness.

    So I tried to come up with a genuine haiku in response, with a 5-7-5 syllable per line structure.

    Trolling poster mocks
    weak and hungover effort.
    Hunter sobs alone.

    This was more difficult than I anticipated, and the chair became quite comfortable as I mulled over various possibilities.

    Then atsome point in the third period, Mrs. Buddy shook my shoulders and said, “You’re sleeping, the Oilers are playing like crap, go to bed.”

    Truly, this is the most beautiful thing to come out of last night’s game. Excellent work.

    I was also sent to bed around 12 mins into the 3rd period, I’d conked out on the couch.

  43. Munny says:

    Chiasson looks like he’s gripping his stick a little too tight, trying to do too much.

    He has hands like brick right now and is forcing plays.

    Needs a bounce to go his way.

  44. v4ance says:

    Buddy:
    I don’t normally read the site during Oilers games, because I’m usually watching behind real time on the PVR, but yesterday’s game had very little entertainment value so I became distracted and read the site as I watched.

    And I was really struck by the austere beauty of Verdad’s posts, sparse, simple, poetic, almost haiku-like in their structure and sharpness.

    So I tried to come up with a genuine haiku in response, with a 5-7-5 syllable per line structure.

    Trolling poster mocks
    weak and hungover effort.
    Hunter sobs alone.

    This was more difficult than I anticipated, and the chair became quite comfortable as I mulled over various possibilities.

    Then atsome point in the third period, Mrs. Buddy shook my shoulders and said, “You’re sleeping, the Oilers are playing like crap, go to bed.”

    That was lovely Buddy. I shed a tear!

  45. Reja says:

    Why can’t the Oilers sweep this weekend Vegas hasn’t been playing great of late the home record is so-so and Leon and Mcdavid like Vegas. The Yotes are playing 3 in 4 nights as well and the home record is like Vegas so-so. The yotes try forcing the play at home they can’t get away with playing the God awful trap at home we shall see. Leon sounded pissed after the mugging LA and the refs gave them last night:

  46. OriginalPouzar says:

    Just a note from our friends that play down south 296km (where I live):

    Practice today:

    PP1 Lucic
    Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk
    Giordano

  47. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Just a note from our friends that play down south 296km (where I live):

    Practice today:

    PP1 Lucic
    Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk
    Giordano

    Lucic is about to go on a heater. Better go grab him off the waiver wire in my fantasy league….

  48. TeeVee says:

    Buddy:
    I don’t normally read the site during Oilers games, because I’m usually watching behind real time on the PVR, but yesterday’s game had very little entertainment value so I became distracted and read the site as I watched.

    And I was really struck by the austere beauty of Verdad’s posts, sparse, simple, poetic, almost haiku-like in their structure and sharpness.

    So I tried to come up with a genuine haiku in response, with a 5-7-5 syllable per line structure.

    Trolling poster mocks
    weak and hungover effort.
    Hunter sobs alone.

    This was more difficult than I anticipated, and the chair became quite comfortable as I mulled over various possibilities.

    Then atsome point in the third period, Mrs. Buddy shook my shoulders and said, “You’re sleeping, the Oilers are playing like crap, go to bed.”

    Verdad is one of my favourites.

  49. godot10 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Hmmmmm.

    Interesting.

    I’d need to see a lot of data to see if holds water though.

    Wanna do that?

    It is probably neither important, nor urgent, relative to other things. It does really answer any big life or death hockey questions that really are not already known.

    It is just an interesting quirk.

  50. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Just a note from our friends that play down south 296km (where I live):

    Practice today:

    PP1 Lucic
    Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk
    Giordano

    It is like Lucic causes coaches to lose their effing minds. Proximity to Lucic causes a 50 point drop in a coach’s IQ.

    Hey Billy. You had Neal all last year. You never played him as the net presence guy on PP#1. And to make up for that mistake, you put Lucic there instead this year. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

  51. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    I was musing on twitter yesterday wondering if Former Soo Greyhounds GM Dubas and Former Soo Greyhounds Head Coach Keefe would be interested in Former Soo Greyhound Captain during their tenure Nurse.

    A Leaf’s fan directed me to an Athletic piece by James Mirtle from June 23rd of this year:

    They’ve seemingly talked to every team in the league about every defenceman they could plausibly add, including some surprising names such as Darnell Nurse, a former Soo Greyhound whom Leafs GM Kyle Dubas apparently tried to pry out of Edmonton a few weeks ago in a blockbuster deal before talks broke down.

    Source: (The Athletic Paywall Warning) https://theathletic.com/1043017/2019/06/23/mirtle-with-little-salary-cap-space-leafs-might-have-to-think-outside-the-box-in-order-to-reshape-their-blueline/

    I hadn’t heard that before.

  52. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    I know that Makar has because a political football in here because of DSF’s frequent mention of his, but this kid really is unreal.


    @ryan_s_clark

    Cale Makar is on pace to finish with 93 points this season.

    The NHL record for most points by a rookie defenseman is Larry Murphy with 76.

    Still a lot of games left but what Makar is doing makes you wonder. #Avs

  53. v4ance says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I was musing on twitter yesterday wondering if Former Soo Greyhounds GM Dubas and Former Soo Greyhounds Head Coach Keefe would be interested in Former Soo Greyhound Captain during their tenure Nurse.

    A Leaf’s fan directed me to an Athletic piece by James Mirtle from June 23rd of this year:

    They’ve seemingly talked to every team in the league about every defenceman they could plausibly add, including some surprising names such as Darnell Nurse, a former Soo Greyhound whom Leafs GM Kyle Dubas apparently tried to pry out of Edmonton a few weeks ago in a blockbuster deal before talks broke down.

    Source: (The Athletic Paywall Warning)https://theathletic.com/1043017/2019/06/23/mirtle-with-little-salary-cap-space-leafs-might-have-to-think-outside-the-box-in-order-to-reshape-their-blueline/

    I hadn’t heard that before.

    Oh yeah, i remember that tidbit. That’s why I was proposing possible trades of Nurse in Oct because I subconsciously remembered that Toronto was hot to grab him.

  54. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Buddy:
    I don’t normally read the site during Oilers games, because I’m usually watching behind real time on the PVR, but yesterday’s game had very little entertainment value so I became distracted and read the site as I watched.

    And I was really struck by the austere beauty of Verdad’s posts, sparse, simple, poetic, almost haiku-like in their structure and sharpness.

    So I tried to come up with a genuine haiku in response, with a 5-7-5 syllable per line structure.

    Trolling poster mocks
    weak and hungover effort.
    Hunter sobs alone.

    This was more difficult than I anticipated, and the chair became quite comfortable as I mulled over various possibilities.

    Then atsome point in the third period, Mrs. Buddy shook my shoulders and said, “You’re sleeping, the Oilers are playing like crap, go to bed.”

    Awesome.

    Buddy’s good haiku
    It had Hunter and verdad
    It made me chuckle

  55. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    v4ance: Oh yeah, i remember that tidbit.That’s why I was proposing possible trades of Nurse in Oct because I subconsciously remembered that Toronto was hot to grab him.

    I imagine adding Keefe only adds to their heat.

  56. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Interesting note in regards to the “Schedule Loss” slated for Sunday vs ARI.

    A Schedule Loss is the third game in 4 nights where the 3rd game is the 2nd of back to back and all 3 games are in different cities necessitating travel after each game.

    EDM played last night in LA, then Saturday in Vegas and Sunday in Glendale so this fits the criteria for EDM.

    However,

    ARI has *almost* the same thing.

    They played last night in Glendale, play Saturday in LA, then Sunday in Glendale.

    Its not *quite* the same, but its not far off.

    The thing about both ARI and EDM’s travel is that its only a hour flight from Vegas to Phoenix (done it many times) and 1.5 hrs from LA to Phoenix.

    ARI plays at 2pm on Sat and EDM plays at 8pm and that is the biggest difference.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lines at practice today:

    Draisaitl-McDavid-Kassian
    Nygard-RNH-Neal
    P. Russell-Sheahan-Archibald
    Granlund-Haas-Chiasson

    Khaira is not skating – probably maintenance after blocking that shot. Not sure if Nygard is promoted to the 2nd line for the game or if he’s just filling in to Khaira’s spot for practice?

  58. OilClog says:

    One day goal posts moved
    Next day on the road again
    Third day nowhere fast

  59. OriginalPouzar says:

    Konovalov stops 19 of 21 in a 5-2 win.

  60. ChiliChunk says:

    OriginalPouzar: P. Russell-Sheahan-Archibald

    The all-Rieder line. Vegreville won’t know what hit them.

  61. ArmchairGM says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I was musing on twitter yesterday wondering if Former Soo Greyhounds GM Dubas and Former Soo Greyhounds Head Coach Keefe would be interested in Former Soo Greyhound Captain during their tenure Nurse.

    A Leaf’s fan directed me to an Athletic piece by James Mirtle from June 23rd of this year:

    They’ve seemingly talked to every team in the league about every defenceman they could plausibly add, including some surprising names such as Darnell Nurse, a former Soo Greyhound whom Leafs GM Kyle Dubas apparently tried to pry out of Edmonton a few weeks ago in a blockbuster deal before talks broke down.

    Source: (The Athletic Paywall Warning)https://theathletic.com/1043017/2019/06/23/mirtle-with-little-salary-cap-space-leafs-might-have-to-think-outside-the-box-in-order-to-reshape-their-blueline/

    I hadn’t heard that before.

    I know you (like me) would prefer to keep Nurse as he enters his prime, but what do you think a fair trade with Toronto would look like?

  62. Wilde says:

    GMB3:
    Wilde,

    Wasn’t that his MO throughout junior though? Absolutely dominant at times, relatively non-existent at others?

    No idea. I completely disregard anything in scouting reports that has to do with competitiveness, decision-making, effort, consistency, or anything else squishy like that. It used to be a purposeful thing, but now my eyes literally just glaze over when I’m skimming those sentences.

    e: Also important that for it to be a complete one-off game, then it’d have to coincidentally be the only game where he got a ton of leash

    Not impossible, but that dimension breaks the likelihood that there was something sitting there the whole time wide open

  63. v4ance says:

    I don’t remember MPS having these kind of hands!

    https://twitter.com/khl_eng/status/1197959879148871680

  64. ArmchairGM says:

    Vegreville normally starts Fleury and they aren’t on a back-to-back, so we’ll likely face him tomorrow: 11-5-2, 2.45, .922 with 2 shutouts.

    For the past couple of weeks ARI has been splitting the starts 1 and 1, Kuemper played last night so likely Raanta starts vs LA and we face Kuemper: 9-6-0, 1.93, .935 with 2 shutouts.

    It’s going to be difficult to score this weekend.

  65. leadfarmer says:

    ArmchairGM,

    Well at least scheduled loss night has Arizona playing second of b2b and traveling the night before so we are actually playing on even terms

  66. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: It is probably neither important, nor urgent, relative to other things. It does really answer any big life or death hockey questions that really are not already known.

    It is just an interesting quirk.

    I groove on quirks.

    I might run a quick correlation on year to year deltas of CF% and SH% for a a large sample of forwards and see if anything pops up.

    Might be confound variables like players playing on multiple lines that have different abilities.

    Still might be worth a look.

    Note: the correlations will be on individual delta’s and not the population as a whole.

  67. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    ArmchairGM: I know you (like me) would prefer to keep Nurse as he enters his prime, but what do you think a fair trade with Toronto would look like?

    Two different scenarios:

    1) they get Nylander. Nurse has that value and Nylander is the goods. Holland then doesn’t shop in the “A” aisle for a top 6 forward in FA

    2) they get a F on a RFA contract like Johnsson or Kapanen + something (stacking trade ftw!) So Holland still has $ to shop in the “A” aisle in FA.

    I like Nurse and hope he stays but the LHD pipeline quality and Nurse’s next contract vis a vis vis his value (doesn’ play PP1 and won’t and is PK2 this year), and his relationship with 97 make it a very, very close decision for Holland and not a slam dunk either way.

  68. McSorley33 says:

    Wilde:
    Maksimov had an unreal game. Unreal. I’ll have video of it later, but, statistically, at 5v5:

    4 shots(CF), 3 shot assists, 1 goal, 1 primary assist

    Maksimov on, CF – CA / / +/- (CF%)

    22 – 9 / / +13 (70.97%)

    Maksimov off, CF – CA / / +/- (CF%)

    27 – 23 / / +4 (54.00%)

    Maksimov on, GF – GA

    3 – 0

    Maksimov off, GF – GA

    0 – 2

    That comes together for a Condors-high 2.92 Game Score.

    As in, that’s the highest by any Condor this season – next closest were some of the nutty Gambardella-Yamamoto games (2.88 Yamamoto’s highest).

    OP mentioned this, but just to reiterate this was the first game he was used in a feature role. As far as I’m concerned, he should have to have a few bad games in a row to have it taken away. I know it’s one game, but again, his ‘one game’ shouldn’t have been this dominant.

    I had assumed our prospects were getting featured roles…I am hoping he was not playing behind Josh Currie and somone named Luke Espisito.

    * i don’t follow the Condors as much as you and OP.

  69. McSorley33 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I was musing on twitter yesterday wondering if Former Soo Greyhounds GM Dubas and Former Soo Greyhounds Head Coach Keefe would be interested in Former Soo Greyhound Captain during their tenure Nurse.

    A Leaf’s fan directed me to an Athletic piece by James Mirtle from June 23rd of this year:

    They’ve seemingly talked to every team in the league about every defenceman they could plausibly add, including some surprising names such as Darnell Nurse, a former Soo Greyhound whom Leafs GM Kyle Dubas apparently tried to pry out of Edmonton a few weeks ago in a blockbuster deal before talks broke down.

    Source: (The Athletic Paywall Warning)https://theathletic.com/1043017/2019/06/23/mirtle-with-little-salary-cap-space-leafs-might-have-to-think-outside-the-box-in-order-to-reshape-their-blueline/

    I hadn’t heard that before.

    Bloody interesting ….thank you.

  70. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    ArmchairGM:
    Vegreville normally starts Fleury and they aren’t on a back-to-back, so we’ll likely face him tomorrow: 11-5-2, 2.45, .922 with 2 shutouts.

    For the past couple of weeks ARI has been splitting the starts 1 and 1, Kuemper played last night so likely Raanta starts vs LA and we face Kuemper: 9-6-0, 1.93, .935 with 2 shutouts.

    It’s going to be difficult to score this weekend.

    If MAF starts Saturday it will be his 4th start in 6 days.

    He started on the 17, 19 and 21st.

    He went 1.000, .939 and .931 in those 3 games but he might be a bit tired and ripe to light up.

    Goalies need more rest than one day between games.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV:
    Nuge looks off. Wonder if he’s playing with an injury.

    He is banged up – he took a couple days off practice/skates last week and Tip said “maintenance” as he’s “banged up”.

  72. Harpers Hair says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Interesting note in regards to the “Schedule Loss” slated for Sunday vs ARI.

    A Schedule Loss is the third game in 4 nights where the 3rd game is the 2nd of back to back and all 3 games are in different cities necessitating travel after each game.

    EDM played last night in LA, then Saturday in Vegas and Sunday in Glendale so this fits the criteria for EDM.

    However,

    ARI has *almost* the same thing.

    They played last night in Glendale, play Saturday in LA, then Sunday in Glendale.

    Its not *quite* the same, but its not far off.

    The thing about both ARI and EDM’s travel is that its only a hour flight from Vegas to Phoenix (done it many times) and 1.5 hrs from LA to Phoenix.

    ARI plays at 2pm on Sat and EDM plays at 8pm and that is the biggest difference.

    Arizona will be home for Saturday night dinner.
    Oilers will likely get to bed early Sunday morning.

  73. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny:
    Chiasson looks like he’s gripping his stick a little too tight, trying to do too much.

    He has hands like brick right now and is forcing plays.

    Needs a bounce to go his way.

    Except this is the same Chiasson we had for almost all of his last year.

    We know that the majority of his goals were PP and, his 5 on 5 production came mainly on a 2-week heater with Drai and Rieder.

    He was 0.87 P/60 in the last 40 games of last year – essentially the same rate he’s scored at this year.

    Also, his early season 2-week heater was not the first time he did that – he had hot starts to a few other seasons prior to regressing to his norm.

    This year, he’s “being Chiasson” without the early season heater.

    Hopefully he goes on the heater later this year but, aside from that, I think this is him.

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy:
    I know that Makar has because a political football in here because of DSF’s frequent mention of his, but this kid really is unreal.


    @ryan_s_clark


    Cale Makar is on pace to finish with 93 points this season.

    The NHL record for most points by a rookie defenseman is Larry Murphy with 76.

    Still a lot of games left but what Makar is doing makes you wonder. #Avs

    He’s also on pace to break Leech’s record for goals from a d-man.

  75. Pouzar says:

    TeeVee: Verdad is one of my favourites.

    If he starts with “Who’s yer Ver-daddy???” I’m out.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: I know you (like me) would prefer to keep Nurse as he enters his prime, but what do you think a fair trade with Toronto would look like?

    Kerfoot and Sandin for Nurse and Lagesson (Samorukov)

  77. Pouzar says:

    Look…nobody’s tradin Darnell unless I give the fookin go ahead got it? Good.

    Now let’s get some whisk[e]y talk goin or some sh!t.

    or

    Who y’all takin in the Cup?

    I’m leanin towards takin the pts…served me well to this point.
    But man Ticats are a beast. Maybe the most “underrated” dominate CFL season in a long time.

  78. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Two different scenarios:

    1) they get Nylander.Nurse has that value and Nylander is the goods.Holland then doesn’t shop in the “A” aisle for a top 6 forward in FA

    2) they get a F on a RFA contract like Johnsson or Kapanen + something (stacking trade ftw!) So Holland still has $ to shop in the “A” aisle in FA.

    I like Nurse and hope he stays but the LHD pipeline quality and Nurse’s next contract vis a vis vis his value (doesn’ play PP1 and won’t and is PK2 this year), and his relationship with 97 make it a very, very close decision for Holland and not a slam dunk either way.

    One other point that I will bring up is how will Bear fare with a new partner. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Nurse’s skating and physical play meshes very well with Bear’s puck moving skills and offensive IQ.

  79. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: Arizona will be home for Saturday night dinner.
    Oilers will likely get to bed early Sunday morning.

    To much Nookie makes you lazy.

  80. Reja says:

    One of Kelbom Nurse or Larsson will not be a Oiler this time next year.

  81. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Reja:
    One of Kelbom Nurse or Larsson will not be a Oiler this time next year.

    Klefbom leads the NHL in time on ice per game, plays PP1 and PK1, and is signed for 3 more years at $4.17MM/yr.

    He’s not going anywhere.

  82. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Reja: To much Nookie makes you lazy.

    Having to do chores around the house and giving your wife and kids quality time is exhausting.

  83. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    pts2pndr: One other point that I will bring up is how will Bear fare with a new partner. Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Nurse’s skating and physical play meshes very well with Bear’s puck moving skills and offensive IQ.

    I’m not trying to be a dink, but I’m not sure what you’re saying.

    “Don’t trade Nurse because he’s good with Bear” ?

    Again, not being a dink, just not sure what your point is.

  84. godot10 says:

    Reja:
    One of Kelbom Nurse or Larsson will not be a Oiler this time next year.

    That would be dumb.** I don’t think Kenny is dumb.

    **Assuming Larsson reverts to form. He had a lousy season last year.

    #NurseHatersMustDie #KlefbomHatersMustDie

    Klefbom and Nurse are on the critical path for the Oilers contending in the short and medium term, other than a blunder by another GM. The only D in the organization who is capable of replacing either is Broberg, and he won’t get there for three years at a minimum.

    Nurse and Klefbom are critical to the #McDraivid cluster. Period. 100%. The Absolute Truth.

  85. leadfarmer says:

    leadfarmer:
    ArmchairGM,

    Well at least scheduled loss night has Arizona playing second of b2b and traveling the night before so we are actually playing on even terms

    Or whatever woodguy said

  86. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: and is signed for 3 more years at $4.17MM/yr.

    That’s the kicker. Dare I say “Full Stop”?

    Coach is riding Nurse-Bear against the best 5v5 so any minutes he can save he by playing Klefbom the full 2 min PP is a win-win….ditto for PK.

    I love Nurse but at 7 mil I am looking at Forwards that drive play…..I think.

  87. pts2pndr says:

    Reja: Why mess with a good thing keep Kosh at a KHL schedule if Kosh loses confidence and Smith pulls a groin we’re finished. Smith will bounce back it’s not his first Rodeo he doesn’t get rattled for long.

    I have rewatched the three goals and by my viewing Smith was only culpable on the third goal. First two were small mistakes by Bear on the first goal and Jones on the second. Both of the first two goals were extremely accurate hard shots off the bar and in. Smith’s positioning on both seemed good to me. The shooters should not have been that wide open. I’m sure Smith would like the dribbler third goal back.

  88. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: It is like Lucic causes coaches to lose their effing minds.Proximity to Lucic causes a 50 point drop in a coach’s IQ.

    Hey Billy.You had Neal all last year.You never played him as the net presence guy on PP#1.And to make up for that mistake, you put Lucic there instead this year. Ha Ha Ha Ha.

    It’s attributing success to the wrong factors. Not succeeding means not trying or too soft. So demand more discipline, clamp down all hatches and grind grind grind.

    There is some truth in it, but it lacks perception. I believe most pro athletes gut themselves to the best of their ability and more importantly understanding and mental state.

    What I respect most about Tip is he made the effort to grow. He had the time to do it, but he also chose as he said to learn more.

    The new age coaches like Keefe don’t have some new algorithm, they are better able to relate to players as they are as people. I think Tip was always that way, but he seems to know how to connect with these millennial and whatever the really young players are generationally.

    I don’t believe hockey changes in essence as a game over time. When it does change its because the league is changing the structure via play or how it calls penalties. When a change happens all must adapt or lose touch and possibly be out of the league.

    Management really needs to be as much cheerleader now as anything else. The old mantra ‘beatings will continue until morale improves’ is a Dodo at this point.

  89. Darth Tu says:

    godot10: That would be dumb.**I don’t think Kenny is dumb.

    **Assuming Larsson reverts to form.He had a lousy season last year.

    #NurseHatersMustDie#KlefbomHatersMustDie

    Klefbom and Nurse are on the critical path for the Oilers contending in the short and medium term, other than a blunder by another GM.The only D in the organization who is capable of replacing either is Broberg, and he won’t get there for three years at a minimum.

    Nurse and Klefbom are critical to the #McDraivid cluster.Period. 100%. The Absolute Truth.

    Indeed. Let’s move Russell out for whatever we can get and then run Jones with either Benning or the Bouch (if he’s ready) as the bottom pair.

    Klef-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear

    For the other two pairings. That works cash wise even with signing Nurse and Bear to a nice new contract.

    Alternatively we see what we have in Laggesson and give him the shot over Jones on the 3rd pairing. I realise that’s running a raw rookie and a relatively green player on the bottom pair, but I can live with that.

  90. v4ance says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Two different scenarios:

    1) they get Nylander.Nurse has that value and Nylander is the goods.Holland then doesn’t shop in the “A” aisle for a top 6 forward in FA

    2) they get a F on a RFA contract like Johnsson or Kapanen + something (stacking trade ftw!) So Holland still has $ to shop in the “A” aisle in FA.

    I like Nurse and hope he stays but the LHD pipeline quality and Nurse’s next contract vis a vis vis his value (doesn’ play PP1 and won’t and is PK2 this year), and his relationship with 97 make it a very, very close decision for Holland and not a slam dunk either way.

    Crazy idea? Maybe Dubas is getting annoyed at Marner’s dad poking his nose in and thinks about offloading the “stage-dad” onto us.

    Nurse-Neal-Chiasson (to make cap dollars work) for Marner

    You wanted stacking….? The rumor did say it was a blockbuster being discussed.

  91. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar: Except this is the same Chiasson we had for almost all of his last year.

    We know that the majority of his goals were PP and, his 5 on 5 production came mainly on a 2-week heater with Drai and Rieder.

    He was 0.87 P/60 in the last 40 games of last year – essentially the same rate he’s scored at this year.

    Also, his early season 2-week heater was not the first time he did that – he had hot starts to a few other seasons prior to regressing to his norm.

    This year, he’s “being Chiasson” without the early season heater.

    Hopefully he goes on the heater later this year but, aside from that, I think this is him.

    I admire the person, but he’s lacking the goods to stay in the league. Would probably be in Europe if Holland hadn’t signed him.

    He’s a weak skater, has a decent shot but is not a finisher at the NHL level like Neal is.

    He’s also passive in his style. Marginal players need to be disruptive. To the opponent of course. It’s why Archibald, Caggiula and the like get chances, even more than much more talented players like Gagner.

    If you aren’t a constant scoring threat that cashes enough you have to be doing something else. Neal is a world class floater, and he’s also a consistent finisher and pretty big. Has kept him in the league so far.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    McSorley: I had assumed our prospects were getting featured roles…I am hoping he was not playing behind Josh Currie and somone named Luke Espisito.

    * i don’t follow the Condors as much as you and OP.

    Yes, he has been playing behind them both.

    Currie is the 1RW on the team and has been all year.

    Maksimov has been healthy scratched on a couple of nights.

    Lets not forget, these are rookie pros and its a giant jump to the AHL – Keith Gretzky specifically talked about Maksi needing to work on his leg and core strength and he’s now learning how hard the league is.

    Maksi has played both nights and they are using him in important situations – both he and McLeod are big parts of a successful PK (often as a pair). Little PP time though.

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy: Klefbom leads the NHL in time on ice per game, plays PP1 and PK1, and is signed for 3 more years at $4.17MM/yr.

    He’s not going anywhere.

    and really just entering his prime.

    He is a legit top pairing d-man.

    Of course, he makes mistakes and is far from “elite” but he’s generally pretty damn consistent and his defensive zone work and PK work is under-rated in my mind.

  94. OriginalPouzar says:

    DarthTu: Indeed. Let’s move Russell out for whatever we can get and then run Jones with either Benning or the Bouch (if he’s ready) as the bottom pair.

    Klef-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear

    For the other two pairings.That works cash wise even with signing Nurse and Bear to a nice new contract.

    Alternatively we see what we have in Laggesson and give him the shot over Jones on the 3rd pairing.I realise that’s running a raw rookie and a relatively green player on the bottom pair, but I can live with that.

    If we are talking this season, its looking like Bouchard is not a legit NHL option, in my opinion.

  95. Reja says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Having to do chores around the house and giving your wife and kids quality time is exhausting.

    I watched the ceremony for Carter last Night, I betcha that poor boy is useless against the Coyotes.

  96. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar: If we are talking this season, its looking like Bouchard is not a legit NHL option, in my opinion.

    Sorry – should have prefaced this all with – in the summer. Referring to Bouchard stepping in next year, if ready. If not let’s continue with Benning on the bottom pair.

  97. Glovjuice says:

    Munny:
    Chiasson looks like he’s gripping his stick a little too tight, trying to do too much.

    He has hands like brick right now and is forcing plays.

    Needs a bounce to go his way.

    This is the best accidental sexual innuendo post of all time.

  98. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: He is a legit top pairing d-man.

    Yes…but that is not what he is for Oilers right now.
    Just sayin.

  99. Harpers Hair says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    I know that Makar has because a political football in here because of DSF’s frequent mention of his, but this kid really is unreal.


    @ryan_s_clark


    Cale Makar is on pace to finish with 93 points this season.

    The NHL record for most points by a rookie defenseman is Larry Murphy with 76.

    Still a lot of games left but what Makar is doing makes you wonder. #Avs

    Just listened to an extensive interview with Ray Ferraro.
    Bottom line is he thinks Makar and Heiskanen are the best defensemen in the league.

  100. Richard Roma says:

    Glovjuice: This is the best accidental sexual innuendo post of all time.

    I’m pretty certain that you’ve just won this thread.

    Clap. Clap. Stunningly brilliant.

  101. Richard Roma says:

    Did Treliving just promulgate his mea culpa for the Lucic trade?

    It starts with the manager – the manager has been horses**t,” said the Flames GM, speaking publicly for the first time since his team’s horrific losing streak began.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/flames-treliving-points-finger-team-mired-losing-streak/

    Also a shout out to Kadri for nixing his trade to Calgary. If the Flames acquired Kadri, do they subsequently trad3 for Looch? No.

  102. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10,

    #NurseHatersMustDie #KlefbomHatersMustDie

    Word like “hate” and “die” are very very strong words.

    They don’t really have a place in civil discourse.

    You make your points well without “going there”

    Please don’t.

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kesserling with an assist tonight and is plus 3 as NE is up 4-2.

    I should note, that his assist was on a hattrick goal from Madden – although Madden is only plus 2, Kessserling the only player at plus 3.

  104. Kraz says:

    If Holland trades Nurse for a play driving winger and Broberg is able to seemingly replace him next year or the year after that would be some masterful GMing

  105. jtblack says:

    Richard Roma: It starts with the manager – the manager has been horses**t,” said the Flames GM, speaking publicly for the first time since his team’s horrific losing streak began.

    not sure how any GM could have watched game tape of Lucic and determined he could rebound in a material way … not only did his points fall off the cliff, but he wasn’t even getting shots on net and barely could muster a good scoring chance …

    I like Lucic. He’s had a hell of a career for a 2nd round pick. But OILER fans got to see him fall off the power forward cliff in real time …

  106. OriginalPouzar says:

    DarthTu: Sorry – should have prefaced this all with – in the summer. Referring to Bouchard stepping in next year, if ready. If not let’s continue with Benning on the bottom pair.

    Yup, fair enough, the expectation at this point is likely that Bouchard will be on the team next October – I even have that expectation and I’m one that thinks that the AHL is proving a bit of a tougher transition that most (including I) expected.

    I am hopeful for a really solid second half to the year – cut down on the mistakes at the offensive blue line but, more importantly, really take a step in the defensive zone with front net battles and quicker puck retrieval and puck moving.

  107. jtblack says:

    Kraz:
    If Holland trades Nurse for a play driving winger and Broberg is able to seemingly replace him next year or the year after that would be some masterful GMing

    I watched the Leafs – Vegas game live on Tuesday. Nylander was the Leafs best player and it wasn’t close … I think he would be a Great add. 20G 55 P guy that adds skill and depth scoring. and he’s only 23; fit right in with the cluster

  108. ArmchairGM says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    godot10,

    #NurseHatersMustDie #KlefbomHatersMustDie

    Word like “hate” and “die” are very very strong words.

    They don’t really have a place in civil discourse.

    You make your points well without “going there”

    Please don’t.

    Oh, come on. We’re all dying. Zero chance you’ll escape the same fate, irrespective of your feelings about trading Nurse.

    😊

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    RichardRoma:
    Did Treliving just promulgate his mea culpa for the Lucic trade?

    It starts with the manager – the manager has been horses**t,” said the Flames GM, speaking publicly for the first time since his team’s horrific losing streak began.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/flames-treliving-points-finger-team-mired-losing-streak/

    Also a shout out to Kadri for nixing his trade to Calgary. If the Flames acquired Kadri, do they subsequently trad3 for Looch? No.

    I think they still make that trade – it seems they really wanted Neal out of there and, of course, the major real dollars savings or ownership.

    With that said, I was so happy at the time that the Kadri trade didn’t go though – he is a valuable player on a very nice contract or a few more years. Imagine if the Oilers had him at 3C?

    Of course the “eff you” to the flames is a bit of a bonus.

  110. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Pouzar: That’s the kicker. Dare I say “Full Stop”?

    Coach is riding Nurse-Bear against the best 5v5 so any minutes he can save he by playing Klefbom the full 2 min PP is a win-win….ditto for PK.

    I love Nurse but at 7 mil I am looking at Forwards that drive play…..I think.

    Agreed that the coach is maximizing both Klefbom’s and Nurse’s TOI.

    It’s so bloody nice to watch someone deploy players like they should be deployed.

    I truly think that Nurse’s cost will determine if he stays in EDM.

    The management group has a number in mind where his value tips from “needed” to “spendable for other assets needed at that price”

    I think the tipping point is somewhere around $6.99 x 6.

    Morrissey set the bar at $6.25 for a Dman the same age, with the same amount of RFA years left (Morrissey was drafted 13th in the same draft Nurse went 7th) who are the same ability.

    Morrissey had 2 years left as a RFA and signed his 2 RFA years and 6 (!) UFA years for $6.25 x 8.

    Morrissey plays 1st pair (same as Nurse), PP1 (Nurse plays PP2, although Morrissey didn’t play PP1 until Buf bailed), and he plays PK2 same as Nurse.

    Its the most perfect comp ever and even Pete realized that (huzzah!) when he got Nurse to match Morrissey’s extension after his ELC (Morrissey was 2 x $3.15, Nurse signed for 2 x $3.20)

    My guess is that EDM would do $6.75 and be dragged up to $7 but if Nurse is stuck at a higher number they’ll trade him.

    Even if they decided to trade him at a number above $7MM, they may not trade him next summer if they think they can’t lose him for the 20/21 season.

    I can see where they agree to something over their breaking point to get him on the ice for 20/21 , but trade him as soon as they thought one of Jones/Laggesson/Broberg/Samarukov wasn’t a big drop in ability.

    This situation has a lot of different possible outcomes.

  111. Richard Roma says:

    jtblack: I watched the Leafs – Vegas game live on Tuesday.Nylander was the Leafs best player and it wasn’t close … I think he would be a Great add.20G 55 P guy that adds skill and depth scoring. and he’s only 23; fit right in with the cluster

    Wait a minute. Won’t Nylander’s mother nix a potential trade? 😉

  112. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kraz:
    If Holland trades Nurse for a play driving winger and Broberg is able to seemingly replace him next year or the year after that would be some masterful GMing

    Sure, it would be although I don’t think its in the realm of reasonableness to think Broberg would “replace Nurse” next year or the subsequent year.

    He may not even play an NHL game during those two years. It would be quite unlikely to have him play in the NHL next year – its probably more likely than not that he stays in Sweden for his draft plus 2.

    I wouldn’t expect him to make the team out of camp in his draft plus 3 year either and, even if he does, or plays on the team later than year, to have him “replace Nurse” vis-a-vis top 4 minutes, that’s not something I think can be counted on.

  113. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    godot10,

    #NurseHatersMustDie #KlefbomHatersMustDie

    Word like “hate” and “die” are very very strong words.

    They don’t really have a place in civil discourse.

    You make your points well without “going there”

    Please don’t.

    Agreed

    This isn’t the place for words that are too strong and not about hockey. And I’m not politically correct

  114. Richard Roma says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    That’s very reasonable.

    Hope that’s the plan.

    I’d like Ehler’s and *gambool *on an internal replacement, but that’s just me.

    We thought the sky would fall if Larsson got I injured….

  115. Richard Roma says:

    OriginalPouzar: I think they still make that trade – it seems they really wanted Neal out of there and, of course, the major real dollars savings or ownership.

    With that said, I was so happy at the time that the Kadri trade didn’t go though – he is a valuable player on a very nice contract or a few more years.Imagine if the Oilers had him at 3C?

    Of course the “eff you” to the flames is a bit of a bonus.

    You never know.

    Butterfly effect and all…

    I could see a scenario in which they acquired Kadri and lost the need to scratch the truculence itch with Looch.

  116. norm_klassen says:

    How many loses until Hall is shipped out? Or is he got more value at the deadline?
    Idk why I care but he would be nice depth for a run

  117. leadfarmer says:

    That Marino kid is on a 4 game point streak and playing 20-22 min a night and getting solid reviews from the pens
    Unfortunately he’s not going to be the only D man to slip through the cracks with how many we have bubbling under

  118. Richard Roma says:

    norm_klassen:
    How many loses until Hall is shipped out? Or is he got more value at the deadline?
    Idk why I care but he would be nice depth for a run

    Poor Dellow. He’s an unlucky genius.

  119. jtblack says:

    Larsson has 2 more years left @ $4.17 and will be 29 when his contract is up. History of back issues and not the best skater, the Oilers should let him walk or strongly consider trading him …

    that is IF Bear and Bouchard (or whomever) are firmly entrenched as Top 4 options …

  120. Richard Roma says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Agreed

    This isn’t the place for words that are too strong and not about hockey. And I’m not politically correct

    Je suis d’accord.

    Perhaps it was a failed attempt at humor?

  121. OriginalPouzar says:

    normklassen:
    How many loses until Hall is shipped out? Or is he got more value at the deadline?
    Idk why I care but he would be nice depth for a run

    Going to be too expensive for a rental (unless this team is leading the division at the deadline and is full value for it – even then so) and a re-signing is too risky for this org.

    Stay away Holland (and I’m sure he will – he isn’t looking to trade away “futures” for a UFA aged player).

  122. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    That Marino kid is on a 4 game point streak and playing 20-22 min a night and getting solid reviews from the pens
    Unfortunately he’s not going to be the only D man to slip through the cracks with how many we have bubbling under

    Fair point that we may lose some d-men but Marino didn’t fall through the cracks – he had no interest in signing here – org didn’t really have any choice.

  123. Richard Roma says:

    verdad2.0:
    The Kings have alpha males, the Oilers not so much.
    And a goalie that can actually play.
    Holland continues to do nothing.

    You are an interesting person.

  124. Richard Roma says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Hmmmmm.

    Interesting.

    I’d need to see a lot of data to see if holds water though.

    Wanna do that?

    Where’s George?

    Does last season’s points/game predict future Godots better than Godots per hour?

  125. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    pts2pndr: I have rewatched the three goals and by my viewing Smith was only culpable on the third goal. First two were small mistakes by Bear on the first goal and Jones on the second. Both of the first two goals were extremely accurate hard shots off the bar and in. Smith’spositioning on both seemed good to me. The shooters should not have been that wide open. I’m sure Smith would like the dribbler third goal back.

    Agreed.

    I argued with Hbomb about this on Twitter.

    Toffoli’s goal was a wide open shot from the dot that hit the top corner perfectly.

    On Kopitar’s goals Jones chases the passer around Klef’s side of the net, 97 or 29 are late to cover the slot and he has a wide open one timer from below the top of the circle.

    Blaming Smith (and I’m not a fan of his) on the first two is misguided.

    Open rickibear shot were everywhere.

  126. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    v4ance: Crazy idea? Maybe Dubas is getting annoyed at Marner’s dad poking his nose in and thinks about offloading the “stage-dad” onto us.

    Nurse-Neal-Chiasson (to make cap dollars work) for Marner

    You wanted stacking….?The rumor did say it was a blockbuster being discussed.

    I don’t want Marner at 11MM until after SEA joins.

    His best season was a product of Tavares, who is really good.

    I like Marner, but not at that price.

  127. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: and really just entering his prime.

    He is a legit top pairing d-man.

    Of course, he makes mistakes and is far from “elite” but he’s generally pretty damn consistent and his defensive zone work and PK work is under-rated in my mind.

    Oiler fans only think Klefbom makes too many mistakes for a 1LD because they don’t watch other teams enough.

  128. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Richard Roma:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    That’s very reasonable.

    Hope that’s the plan.

    I’d like Ehler’s and *gambool *on an internal replacement,but that’s just me.

    We thought the sky would fall if Larsson got I injured….

    I don’t know what you’re referring to when you say I’m reasonable, but:

    1) I agree
    2) Thank you

  129. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Richard Roma: Where’s George?

    Does last season’s points/game predict future Godots better than Godots per hour?

    Well done sir.

  130. Kraz says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sure, it would be although I don’t think its in the realm of reasonableness to think Broberg would “replace Nurse” next year or the subsequent year.

    He may not even play an NHL game during those two years. It would be quite unlikely to have him play in the NHL next year – its probably more likely than not that he stays in Sweden for his draft plus 2.

    I wouldn’t expect him to make the team out of camp in his draft plus 3 year either and, even if he does, or plays on the team later than year, to have him “replace Nurse” vis-a-vis top 4 minutes, that’s not something I think can be counted on.

    Hmmmm what makes you think he will get slow played?

    To me based on draft pedigree, size, maturity and his skating ability the most likely scenario is he is playing in North America next year and playing in the top 4 the year after.

    And I guess based on those things Nurse himself would be a pretty close comp for a NHL timeline.

  131. godot10 says:

    Pouzar:

    I love Nurse but at 7 mil I am looking at Forwards that drive play…..I think.

    Petry and Sekera got $5.5 million 4 years ago as #3D.

    The mistake was made by transitioning Nurse.

    I think Nurse will be happy with $6.5 – $7 for eight years.

  132. Harpers Hair says:

    godot10: Petry and Sekera got $5.5 million 4 years ago as #3D.

    The mistake was made by transitioning Nurse.

    I think Nurse will be happy with $6.5 – $7 for eight years.

    That would be a massive mistake.

  133. godot10 says:

    Harpers Hair: Just listened to an extensive interview with Ray Ferraro.
    Bottom line is he thinks Makar and Heiskanen are the best defensemen in the league.

    I said Heiskanen last week. I’ll stand by that for now.

  134. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Richard Roma: Je suis d’accord.

    Perhaps it was a failed attempt at humor?

    Not an attempt at humour. Not agreeing with everybody’s opinion and current sensitivity, and desire from some to control speech and thought, doesn’t mean you can’t be reasonable.

    ‘Free’ doesn’t mean what too many people think it does. We still have to be responsible to each other. Freedom ‘from’, more than freedom ‘to’.

  135. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Richard Roma: Wait a minute. Won’t Nylander’s mother nix a potential trade?

    You need to post more often.

  136. Harpers Hair says:

    godot10: I said Heiskanen last week.I’ll stand by that for now.

    Sounds reasonable.
    Miro is 20 years old.

  137. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: I said Heiskanen last week.I’ll stand by that for now.

    Few players maintain a high level.

    Let’s see what happens with these lads. Talent and HOF are far apart.

  138. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Petry and Sekera got $5.5 million 4 years ago as #3D.

    The mistake was made by transitioning Nurse.

    I think Nurse will be happy with $6.5 – $7 for eight years.

    Both were UFAs, Nurse has 2 RFA years to run which is why Morrissey signed for $6.25 and not $7MM

    Petry and Sekera signed in summer of 2015 for $5.5

    Cap for 15/16 was $74.1MM

    5.5 is 7.7% of the cap.

    Cap in 20/21 should be ~83.5MM

    7.7% of 83.5MM is $6.43

    That’s a UFA number.

  139. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    jtblack:
    Larsson has 2 more years left @ $4.17 and will be 29 when his contract is up.History of back issues and not the best skater, the Oilers should let him walk or strongly consider trading him …

    that is IF Bear and Bouchard (or whomever) are firmly entrenched as Top 4 options …

    He only has 1 year after this one.

  140. Harpers Hair says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Few players maintain a high level.

    Let’s see what happens with these lads. Talent and HOF are far apart.

    Heiskanen is playing without John Klingberg who is also a phenom.
    He’s only going to get better.

  141. OriginalPouzar says:

    Both Kemp and Kesserling finish plus 3 in 6-3 and 5-2 victories.

    Quiet night from Brind’Amour with a single shot on net in a 2-1 loss.

  142. Kraz says:

    https://thecoachessite.com/sweden-defencemen-rikard-gronberg-coach/?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=NHLCA%20Gronborg%202018&utm_term=Hockey%20Coach&utm_content=NHLCA%20Gronborg%202018%20-%20Facebook

    Anyways here’s a nice little piece that will give some insight on how Broberg is being developed in Sweden. It was great decision for him to stay there this year and playing in their national program for world juniors will also do him wonders

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy/a>: Oiler fans only think Klefbom makes too many mistakes for a 1LD because they don’t watch other teams enough.

    Which is odd – we see legit top end D make mistakes against the Oilers night in and night out – Doughty, OEL, etc. – often McDavid but not always.

    Also, I think its a false narrative that the Oilers “don’t show up” or “aren’t ready to play” more than other teams. The Oilers have taken it to many teams this year but we don’t talk about those teams not “showing up” because we are focused on the Oilers.

    The NHL schedule is a grind – maybe the most physically demanding of all the mainstream sports (yes, football but, generally 6 full days off between every game and MUCH less travel).

  144. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kraz: Hmmmm what makes you think he will get slow played?

    To me based on draft pedigree, size, maturity and his skating ability the most likely scenario is he is playing in North America next year and playing in the top 4 the year after.

    And I guess based on those things Nurse himself would be a pretty close comp for a NHL timeline.

    I wouldn’t say its “slow playing” but the somewhat expected trajectory for this player – when drafted it was generally accepted that he was a number of years away from the NHL.

    He’s already spoken about the possibility of staying in Sweden next year – of course, far from decided.

    Not to mention, even when making the NHL full time, that doesn’t mean top 4.

    I was going to bring up Nurse – he went back to junior for his draft plus 1 and plus 2 – he started his draft plus 3 in the AHL but was called up due to injury. Did OK in the 3rd pair – got caved when more injuries hit and he moved up. How many years did it take Nurse to solidify a top 4 role?

    Bouchard won’t be in the NHL in his draft plus 1 or 2 (well, except for the silly games given last year and maybe a cup of coffee this year). Draft plus 3, its likely he makes the team but not a lock and definitely not a top 4 lock – he’s also “old” for his draft year whereas Broberg is “young for his draft year” – i think he’s 18 when the season finishes.

  145. OriginalPouzar says:

    HarpersHair: That would be a massive mistake.

    Can’t agree with that at all.

    If its apx $6.5M, he’s essentially value for that cap hit, or at least pretty darn close and, over an 8 year term, that contract will be a bargain and highly tradeable for value throughout the term.

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kraz:

    Anyways here’s a nice little piece that will give some insight on how Broberg is being developed in Sweden. It was great decision for him to stay there this year and playing in their national program for world juniors will also do him wonders

    I fully expect him to be an all-star at the U-20s.

    He has already shown to be dominant versus his peers – that type of skating will dominate that age group, every time.

  147. JimmyV1965 says:

    Kraz:
    If Holland trades Nurse for a play driving winger and Broberg is able to seemingly replace him next year or the year after that would be some masterful GMing

    It is very very unlikely that Broberg replaces Nurse in the next two years. Realistic expectations are better for everyone; player, team and fans.

  148. Zelepukin says:

    norm_klassen:
    How many loses until Hall is shipped out? Or is he got more value at the deadline?
    Idk why I care but he would be nice depth for a run

    The coach gets axed before that happens. You can’t have that many star players underperforming to this degree all at once.

    Hall only has 2 goals through 20 games. JJ has more goals than Hall.

  149. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Can’t agree with that at all.

    If its apx $6.5M, he’s essentially value for that cap hit, or at least pretty darn close and, over an 8 year term, that contract will be a bargain and highly tradeable for value throughout the term.

    Thing is…he’s not a very good defensemen. Second pairing at best.
    You can’t over pay for mediocrity.

  150. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: Except this is the same Chiasson we had for almost all of his last year.

    We know that the majority of his goals were PP and, his 5 on 5 production came mainly on a 2-week heater with Drai and Rieder.

    He was 0.87 P/60 in the last 40 games of last year – essentially the same rate he’s scored at this year.

    Also, his early season 2-week heater was not the first time he did that – he had hot starts to a few other seasons prior to regressing to his norm.

    This year, he’s “being Chiasson” without the early season heater.

    Hopefully he goes on the heater later this year but, aside from that, I think this is him.

    As you know, players don’t typically get their points at the consistent average described by ppg figures. The points come in streaks of hot and cold, peaks and troughs. I was describing Chiasser’s present trough.

    Nor should we ever ignore any heater or cooler a player has had in their career.

  151. Munny says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Not an attempt at humour. Not agreeing with everybody’s opinion and current sensitivity, and desire from some to control speech and thought, doesn’t mean you can’t be reasonable.

    ‘Free’ doesn’t mean what too many people think it does. We still have to be responsible to each other. Freedom ‘from’, more than freedom ‘to’.

    Pretty sure Godot’s original comment was an attempt at humour..

  152. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sure, it would be although I don’t think its in the realm of reasonableness to think Broberg would “replace Nurse” next year or the subsequent year.

    He may not even play an NHL game during those two years. It would be quite unlikely to have him play in the NHL next year – its probably more likely than not that he stays in Sweden for his draft plus 2.

    I wouldn’t expect him to make the team out of camp in his draft plus 3 year either and, even if he does, or plays on the team later than year, to have him “replace Nurse” vis-a-vis top 4 minutes, that’s not something I think can be counted on.

    Most 5-10 picks are in the NHL in draft+2. I can’t see Kenny leaving Broberg out past that. I.e if he spends next year in Sweden he’ll be in the NHL for 2021-22 for sure.

  153. Richard Roma says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Not an attempt at humour. Not agreeing with everybody’s opinion and current sensitivity, and desire from some to control speech and thought, doesn’t mean you can’t be reasonable.

    ‘Free’ doesn’t mean what too many people think it does. We still have to be responsible to each other. Freedom ‘from’, more than freedom ‘to’.

    What part of “Je suis d’accord” did I not understand?

    I thought that meant I agree with you, en Francais.

  154. OriginalPouzar says:

    flames setting franchise records:

    – haven’t held a lead in their entire 6 game losing streak – over 360 minutes.

    – haven’t scored a 1st period goal in 8 games.

    Unfortunately, I expect them to do a 180 pretty soon – blah.

  155. Harpers Hair says:

    ArmchairGM: Most 5-10 picks are in the NHL in draft+2. I can’t see Kenny leaving Broberg out past that. I.e if he spends next year in Sweden he’ll be in the NHL for 2021-22 for sure.

    Broberg has 3 points in 13 games and is -3.

  156. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair: Thing is…he’s not a very good defensemen. Second pairing at best.
    You can’t over pay for mediocrity.

    Harpers Hair: Broberg has 3 points in 13 games and is -3.

    You are like—super—bored tonight, huh?

  157. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: Thing is…he’s not a very good defensemen. Second pairing at best.
    You can’t over pay for mediocrity.

    Nurse is one of those defenseman that peaks in his late 20s early 30s the problem is he’s only 24

  158. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Most 5-10 picks are in the NHL in draft+2. I can’t see Kenny leaving Broberg out past that. I.e if he spends next year in Sweden he’ll be in the NHL for 2021-22 for sure.

    Most, not all – not Nurse, not Bouchard (likely not).

    He is also very young for his draft age and its not uncommon for high picks from Europe to spend 2 years over in Europe.

    He could go SHL, SHL, NHL – definite possibility but not sure thing.

    I would think its quite unlikely that he goes either:

    SHL, SHL, top 4 NHL

    OR

    SHL, AHL, top 4 NHL.

  159. OriginalPouzar says:

    HarpersHair: Broberg has 3 points in 13 games and is -3.

    3 points in 13 games as an 18 year old d-man in the SHL is actually quite good.

    Plus/Minus? He possession metrics shine – including relative metrics.

  160. Material Elvis says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Agreed.

    I argued with Hbomb about this on Twitter.

    Toffoli’s goal was a wide open shot from the dot that hit the top corner perfectly.

    On Kopitar’s goals Jones chases the passer around Klef’s side of the net, 97 or 29 are late to cover the slot and he has a wide open one timer from below the top of the circle.

    Blaming Smith (and I’m not a fan of his) on the first two is misguided.

    Open rickibear shot were everywhere.

    I think Smith should have come out and cut down the shooting angle. He was too far back in his net. I had a perfect view of the play from where I was sitting. Toffoli only had one spot to shoot at because Smith left it wide open. He nailed the shot but Smith should have had it.

  161. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    He knows this; he was simply casting bait. Very simply at that, lol.

  162. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I’m not trying to be a dink, but I’m not sure what you’re saying.

    “Don’t trade Nurse because he’s good with Bear” ?

    Again, not being a dink, just not sure what your point is.

    Sorry that was additional. What I was saying is if you move Nurse you are breaking up a defensive pairing that meshes well. Nurse with Russel was not effective. Until Bear is a more proven D we do not have any measure of how Bear will do paired with for example Jones. I lean to the Godot thinking of not moving Nurse or Klefbom until someone pushes one of them out.

  163. Richard Roma says:

    Harpers Hair: Thing is…he’s not a very good defensemen. Second pairing at best.
    You can’t over pay for mediocrity.

    Agreed in principle.

    Yeash, the Canucks are on the rise but too bad about the boat anchor contracts Benning keeps signing.

    Myers. Zero goals, four apples, minus 7 in 23 games.

    Tha looks like a $6m bottom pairing defenseman.

    Unlike fine wine, 29-year-old bottom pairing defenseman don’t get better with age.

    Four more years baby!

  164. OriginalPouzar says:

    RichardRoma: Agreed in principle.

    Yeash, the Canucks are on the rise but too bad about the boat anchor contracts Benning keeps signing.

    Myers. Zero goals, four apples, minus 7 in 23 games.

    Tha looks like a $6m bottom pairing defenseman.

    Unlike fine wine, 29-year-old bottom pairing defenseman don’t get better with age.

    Four more years baby!

    but Brogerg has 3 assists and is -3 in 13 games – as an 18 year old.

  165. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: Most, not all – not Nurse, not Bouchard (likely not).

    He is also very young for his draft age and its not uncommon for high picks from Europe to spend 2 years over in Europe.

    He could go SHL, SHL, NHL – definite possibility but not sure thing.

    I would think its quite unlikely that he goes either:

    SHL, SHL, top 4 NHL

    OR

    SHL, AHL, top 4 NHL.

    I would agree. I think he will play one more year in the SHL and then AHL to get accustomed to the smaller ice surface for a minimum of half a season but more likely a full season.

  166. Munny says:

    pts2pndr: Sorry that was additional. What I was saying is if you move Nurse you are breaking up a defensive pairing that meshes well. Nurse with Russel was not effective. Until Bear is a more proven D we do not have any measure of how Bear will do paired with for example Jones. I lean to the Godot thinking of not moving Nurse or Klefbom until someone pushes one of them out.

    I agree.

    The reason why people have been willing to trade Larsson is because they’ve seen what Bear has done in his absence.

    We have seen no leftie do the same with Nurse’s minutes.

    He will be tradeable during the entirety of his next contract barring catastrophe. Presently there isn’t a bona fide replacement. Which means we’re playing whack-a-hole.

    You would need really good reasons to rush this. Like once-in-a-lifetime reasons.

  167. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Oiler fans only think Klefbom makes too many mistakes for a 1LD because they don’t watch other teams enough.

    This is so true. Defence is hard. Very hard. And the best dmen make mistakes all the time.

  168. pts2pndr says:

    ArmchairGM: Most 5-10 picks are in the NHL in draft+2. I can’t see Kenny leaving Broberg out past that. I.e if he spends next year in Sweden he’ll be in the NHL for 2021-22 for sure.

    Not an ideal development plan for young D. This is particularly true for young D that are not used to the smaller ice surface.

  169. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar: SHL, AHL, top 4 NHL.

    This would be my vote for next year.

    Even just for injury depth.

  170. Munny says:

    pts2pndr: young D that are not used to the smaller ice surface.

    And because of this. Especially for a skating defenseman.

  171. Richard Roma says:

    OriginalPouzar: but Brogerg has 3 assists and is -3 in 13 games – as an 18 year old.

    I wasn’t referring to Broberg. I was simply agreeing in principle that you shouldn’t overpay for mediocrity. Then I cited the example of Myers.

  172. JimmyV1965 says:

    Harpers Hair: That would be a massive mistake.

    What do you mean by massive mistake? A massive mistake is paying Lucic $6 x 7. Even if you think Nurse is only worth $6.25, it’s hardly a massive mistake to pay him $7. It’s maybe an overpayment; one that will be completely forgotten two years later when lesser dmen get paid even more.

  173. Munny says:

    JimmyV1965: This is so true. Defence is hard. Very hard. And the best dmen make mistakes all the time.

    JimmyV1965: What do you mean by massive mistake? A massive mistake is paying Lucic $6 x 7. Even if you think Nurse is only worth $6.25, it’s hardly a massive mistake to pay him $7. It’s maybe an overpayment; one that will be completely forgotten two years later when lesser dmen get paid even more.

    Both so true.

  174. Munny says:

    Richard Roma: I wasn’t referring to Broberg. I was simply agreeing in principle that you shouldn’t overpay for mediocrity. Then I cited the example of Myers.

    That was OP with an uncharacteristic, but sweet nonetheless, piece of sarcasm.

    Edit: Aimed at Obored Wan, if that wasn’t evident.

  175. JimmyV1965 says:

    Harpers Hair: Thing is…he’s not a very good defensemen. Second pairing at best.
    You can’t over pay for mediocrity.

    Nurse would be the best dman on the Canucks today, playing first pair and leading the team in minutes. Maybe Hughes will be better some day. Maybe. Right now he’s a rookie dman getting highly sheltered minutes, maybe playing 10 min a game 5 x 5 who racked up some points on the PP when it was hot.

  176. Richard Roma says:

    Munny: That was OP with an uncharacteristic, but sweet nonetheless, piece of sarcasm.

    Whoa.unexpected and missed.

    Anyone remember that galaxy brain image from twitter for the Lucic contract? I can’t find it anywhere.

    Someone needs to make one of those for Myers.

  177. pts2pndr says:

    Munny: And because of this.Especially for a skating defenseman.

    There is a speed difference as things happen faster on the smaller ice surface. There is also getting culturally adjusted. Not to mention a step up in quality of competition. Giving Broberg time to adjust by playing in the AHL is the prudent thing to do in my opinion.

  178. Munny says:

    pts2pndr,

    It’s all speculation of course because every individual is different (and who knows), but I lean the same way. Adjusting to N. America is big too, good point.

    (We have no idea what kind of timeline Holland has in mind either. He might be in no rush.)

  179. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    To my mind, Broberg ought to follow the Klefbom development model. Provided, of course, it’s suitable for him individually as he develops.

    Draft +1, +2 in Europe, +3 in the AHL and then eased into the NHL.

  180. Munny says:

    pts2pndr: There is a speed difference as things happen faster on the smaller ice surface

    More than that… lanes, angles, setting up your pivots, gap control, the background… that is the context for your eye is different… plays happening closer to the boards, the relationship of that to what’s behind you, spatial awareness.

  181. v4ance says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    godot10,

    #NurseHatersMustDie #KlefbomHatersMustDie

    Word like “hate” and “die” are very very strong words.

    They don’t really have a place in civil discourse.

    You make your points well without “going there”

    Please don’t.

    Here’s the thing, when I propose trade suggestions for Nurse, it’s not because I “hate” him. In fact, it’s the exact opposite. Nurse is a young coming into his own prime defenceman who is known around the league. That has much higher trade value than guys like Lagesson, Jones, Samukorov, Manning, Benning or Russell who may or may not be known but they definitely don’t have the same cachet.

    We are in dire need of another top 6 forward and that second group wouldn’t sway any GM into giving up any forward of quality but Nurse does have that value.

    The other factors are, as Woodguy pointed out, Nurse’s contract demands, and the fact we have “on the cusp of ready” prospects who may be able to step in. Those same prospects are not waiver eligible next season and we could lose one or two after spending the past few years developing them. If that’s the case, the trade of Nurse is defensible even if we take a short term drop in play to maximize asset management.

    The possible loss of a prospect for nothing or for a diminished return isn’t an unfounded fear. It’s highlighted by Marino signing with the Pens with the pending Oilers depth chart of Larsson, Bouchard, Benning and Bear all ahead of him. In Pittsburgh, he literally had an open audition for a top 4 slot.

    norm_klassen:
    How many loses until Hall is shipped out? Or is he got more value at the deadline?
    Idk why I care but he would be nice depth for a run

    Hall may be feeling “why give a fudge?” as he’s seen this song and dance before in Edmonton. No matter how good the roster is, if the goaltending is subpar, it’s very difficult to drag the team any higher up the standings.

    I have a feeling Hall is giving 90% instead of his usual 100% and maybe saving himself from any extra wear and tear in anticipation of his pending UFA state. We’ve all been in those bad work situations where we’re undermotivated and don’t feel necessary to give our maximum. After he’s freed from the NJ, I think he could go back to being the absolute pisscutter that he’s always been.

  182. Caller Zen says:

    Munny:
    OriginalPouzar,

    He knows this; he was simply casting bait.Very simply at that, lol.

    I’m late to the party… but are you saying DSF is a Master Baiter?
    Although, I can’t blame him – it must get lonely living under that bridge in Parksville
    while everyone is hopped up on viagra. Poor guy : /

  183. ArmchairGM says:

    Harpers Hair: Broberg has 3 points in 13 games and is -3.

    And?

  184. ArmchairGM says:

    norm_klassen: How many loses until Hall is shipped out? Or is he got more value at the deadline?

    I think he has more value at the deadline, as more teams will be able to absorb his cap hit. I think Holland will at least ask about him, but I doubt he’ll pay the price.

  185. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Both Kemp and Kesserling finish plus 3 in 6-3 and 5-2 victories.

    Neither will arrive for 3 years or so, but I think we have 2 more righty NHL defensemen there.

  186. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: Most, not all – not Nurse, not Bouchard (likely not).

    He is also very young for his draft age and its not uncommon for high picks from Europe to spend 2 years over in Europe.

    He could go SHL, SHL, NHL – definite possibility but not sure thing.

    I would think its quite unlikely that he goes either:

    SHL, SHL, top 4 NHL

    OR

    SHL, AHL, top 4 NHL.

    I said nothing about “top-4” though. SHL, SHL NHL would be quite normal, a little slow even compared to 5-10 picks historically. I have nothing against this trajectory especially given his late birthday, I just don’t see him spending that draft+3 outside the NHL.

  187. ArmchairGM says:

    Richard Roma: Agreed in principle.

    Yeash, the Canucks are on the rise but too bad about the boat anchor contracts Benning keeps signing.

    Myers. Zero goals, four apples, minus 7 in 23 games.

    Tha looks like a $6m bottom pairing defenseman.

    Unlike fine wine, 29-year-old bottom pairing defenseman don’t get better with age.

    Four more years baby!

    Hmm… the oldest wine in my collection is a ’98, so 21 years old. And it’s aging quite well. Maybe I’ll open another bottle soon…

  188. meanashell11 says:

    Material Elvis: I think Smith should have come out and cut down the shooting angle.He was too far back in his net.I had a perfect view of the play from where I was sitting.Toffoli only had one spot to shoot at because Smith left it wide open.He nailed the shot but Smith should have had it.

    I completely agree with this and said so in real time as we were watching the game. He seemed to be very deep in the crease the entire first period.

  189. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    pts2pndr: Sorry that was additional. What I was saying is if you move Nurse you are breaking up a defensive pairing that meshes well. Nurse with Russel was not effective. Until Bear is a more proven D we do not have any measure of how Bear will do paired with for example Jones. I lean to the Godot thinking of not moving Nurse or Klefbom until someone pushes one of them out.

    Got it.

    I’m in the “don’t slot players above their established NHL ability” as well and as of today no one on the roster can play in Klef’s or Nurse’s spot.

    It might be different by the end of the season or the end of next season.

  190. Lowetide says:

    New for The Athletic: Why Dave Tippett’s deployment is a sign the Oilers need a No. 3 centre

    https://theathletic.com/1400148/2019/11/23/lowetide-why-dave-tippetts-deployment-is-a-sign-the-oilers-need-a-no-3-centre/

  191. Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Two different scenarios:

    1) they get Nylander.Nurse has that value and Nylander is the goods.Holland then doesn’t shop in the “A” aisle for a top 6 forward in FA

    2) they get a F on a RFA contract like Johnsson or Kapanen + something (stacking trade ftw!) So Holland still has $ to shop in the “A” aisle in FA.

    I like Nurse and hope he stays but the LHD pipeline quality and Nurse’s next contract vis a vis vis his value (doesn’ play PP1 and won’t and is PK2 this year), and his relationship with 97 make it a very, very close decision for Holland and not a slam dunk either way.

    I definitely lean towards guaranteeing the higher quality asset at a reasonable cap hit like Nylander and then shopping for the lower quality asset in FA than vice versa. This is especially the case when I don’t see a UFA of Nylander’s quality aside from Hall (who would cost upwards of 3mil more than Willy) on the market. I measure it like this:

    Nylander & Leivo/Granlund*
    Vs
    Kapanen & Hoffman/Kreider

    *if his down year persists

    This would certainly leave a gap in the top-4 D, though. Need to play it like Washington has the past few years and find some hidden quality that can be locked up to term at low dollars like they’ve done with Kempny, Jensen and perhaps Gudas. All these guys are ones who had been mentioned in some way or another in these threads before the trades were made with Jensen getting the most fanfare and Kempny the least iirc.

    I know I’ll be keeping a close eye on who might be a viable candidate for this year.

  192. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair: Thing is…he’s not a very good defensemen. Second pairing at best.
    You can’t over pay for mediocrity.

    If there is one thing you should know it is mediocrity sir troll.

  193. OriginalPouzar says:

    We complain about afternoon games (although I tend to like them) but that Canucks game starts at 9:30 am on the West coast. Yikes.

    Wow, that out of town scoreboard is set up to make it really easy to know who to cheer for (except for one game). Usually there are more games set up where we don’t want either team to win:

    VAN/WSH – no-brainer Caps

    CAL/PHI – no brainer Fylers

    ARI/LAK – no brainer Kings

    MIN/BOS – no brainer Bruins

    ANA/TBL – no brainer Tampa

    TOR/COL – no brainer Leafs (as it relates to the OIlers)

    NSH/STL – only iffy one but probably best to keep NSH as far below as possible

    CHI/DAL – no brainer Hawks

    NYI/SJS – no brainer keep it rolling Isles

  194. Andy Dufresne says:

    “Kailer Yamamoto was out, that young man needs to stay healthy.”

    He hasnt been able to stay healthy since he started playing with men.

    Its a risk you take with the smaller players. The really small ones. Some of these players are tough as nails, Theo Fluery, Martin St Louis, Brad Marchand, Todd Marchant, Yvan Cournoyer, etc

    Others not so much.

    His health combined with a seroius lack of offense at the pro level has me believing that the window is begining to close on Yamo as a top six winger at the pro level. And at 5’8″ 153lbs, you’re chances of being role player in the bottom six is not great.

    Yamo is still on a trajectory that could see him get healthy and vie for a middle six role. And although we are all hoping this is the case, I wouldnt bet on it.

    Lavoie
    Benson
    The guy we get back when we trade JP
    McLeod
    Yamamoto / Maksimov

    Kailer is about to leap frogged by Maksimov if his body cant take the punishment at the pro level. imo

  195. Andy Dufresne says:

    Pouzar:
    Look…nobody’s tradin Darnell unless I give the fookin go ahead got it? Good.

    Now let’s get some whisk[e]y talk goin or some sh!t.

    or

    Who y’all takin in the Cup?

    I’m leanin towards takin the pts…served me well to this point.
    But man Ticats are a beast. Maybe the most “underrated” dominate CFL season in a long time.

    Its the CFL. Its like High School Football. There really shouldnt even be a betting line imo.

    Flip a coin.

    Ill be cheering for Winnipeg.

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