Sunday Drive

Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl scored, and the Edmonton Oilers might just have a fantastic new bottom-six line that features Riley Sheahan, Josh Archibald and Joakim Nygard. It was a very revealing Tabernac Saturday, with two points under the Christmas tree for the town team. Hallelujah, amen.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here. 

  • New Lowetide: As Oilers’ auditions of fringe forwards nears conclusion, it’s time for Condors’ top prospects to force the issue
  • Lowetide: The key missing element to the Oilers’ brilliant top line
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: ‘We called him ‘The Crane”: Teammates and coaches reveal their best Connor McDavid stories
  • Jonathan Willis: Should the Oilers have outbid the Coyotes for Taylor Hall?
  • Lowetide: Connor McDavid’s frustration and the impact it could have on the Edmonton Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Oilers need to figure out five-on-five woes quickly, starting with Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl
  • Lowetide: Who should be the next man up from the Bakersfield Condors?
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: 10 subscriber questions for Oilers rookie defenceman Ethan Bear
  • Lowetide: Five loud noises Ken Holland could make to help the Oilers immediately
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects list, winter 2019
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ No. 5 prospect, Winter 2019 — Raphael Lavoie
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ No. 4 prospect winter 2019: Tyler Benson
  • Lowetide: Oilers No. 3 prospect winter 2019: Ethan Bear
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ No. 2 prospect winter 2019: Philip Broberg
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ No. 1 prospect winter 2019: Evan Bouchard

OILERS AFTER 39 GAMES

  • Oilers in 2015: 15-21-3, 33 points; goal differential -22
  • Oilers in 2016: 19-13-7, 45 points; goal differential +4
  • Oilers in 2017: 17-19-3, 37 points; goal differential -12
  • Oilers in 2018: 18-18-3, 39 points; goal differential -7
  • Oilers in 2019: 20-15-4, 44 points; goal differential -3

Tabernac Saturday had a strange script, Edmonton never trailed but could never separate either from les Habitants. Win No. 20 in 39 games is the first time it’s happened in the McDavid era.

OILERS IN DECEMBER

  • Oilers in December 2015: 6-3-2, 14 points; goal differential -5
  • Oilers in December 2016: 6-2-3, 15 points; goal differential +2
  • Oilers in December 2017: 7-4-0, 14 points; goal differential +9
  • Oilers in December 2018: 6-4-1, 13 points; goal differential +4
  • Oilers in December 2019: 4-6-1, 9 points; goal differential -9

That was a big win last night, Oilers in December 2019 are still the odd duck but at least they’ve closed the gap. Like Jimmy Dean in ‘Big Bad John’ it’s like someone yelled “there’s a light up above” and 20 men scrambled from a would-be grave.

WHAT TO EXPECT FROM DECEMBER

  • On the road to: VAN (Expected 1-0-0) (Actual 1-0-0)
  • At home to: OTT, LAK, BUF, CAR (Expected 2-1-1) (Actual 1-2-1)
  • On the road to: MIN (Expected 1-0-0) (Actual 0-1-0)
  • At home to: TOR (Expected 0-1-0) (Actual 0-1-0)
  • On the road to: DAL, STL (Expected 0-2-0) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • At home to: PIT, MTL (Expected 1-1-0) (Actual 1-1-0)
  • On the road to: VAN (Expected 0-0-1)
  • At home to: CAL, NYR (Expected 1-1-0)
  • Overall expected result: 6-6-2, 14 points in 14 games
  • Current results: 4-6-1, 9 points in 11 games

The more I stare at my predicted won-loss at the beginning of the month, the more clear it is that we should have expected a few miles of bad road this month. Three more games to go.

OILERS 2019-20

For the first time this season, it looked like a bottom-six trio had real chemistry. Nygard and Archibald can wheel and Sheahan did good work in the middle. Good sign. All numbers five on five, via NST.

LINE 1 Leon Draisaitl-Connor McDavid-Zack Kassian played 12:16, going 6-14 Corsi, 4-6 shots, 1-1 goals and 1-2 HDSC. Faced Philipp Danault line 4:18 and Ben Chariot-Shea Weber 10:18. That’s Montreal’s tough minutes fivesome.

Leon Draisaitl scored early in the game, but had three giveaways. This line’s possession numbers are suffering this year, those giveaways are part of the issue. Also had a PP assist. Connor McDavid scored a stunning goal and set up Leon’s marker, had five PP shots and some giveaways (2) at five on five. His goal was so good you have to watch it from every angle. Zack Kassian had an assist, a shot and drew a penalty.

LINE 2 Joakim Nygard-Riley Sheahan-Josh Archibald shone like a diamond, playing 7:54, going 11-3, 4-2 shots, 1-0 goals and 2-1 HDSC. I think it might have been the best game of the season for Sheahan and Archibald.

Joakim Nygard had an assist, drew two penalties and skated miles. Great game. Riley Sheahan scored the winner, two shots (both HDSC) and 70 percent in the dot. Fabulous. Josh Archibald was fierce and effective, 1-1-2 with two shots (one HDSC) and drew a penalty. Music!

LINE 3 James Neal-Nuge-Alex Chiasson played 7:07, going 7-7 Corsi, 2-3 shots, no goals and 2-0 HDSC.

James Neal had one shot and a couple of great looks, Nuge had two shots, a takeaway, was solid in the FO circle, nailed the post on the PP and had a PP assist. Alex Chiasson had a shot and a HDSC (plus two more on the PP) on a night where he probably earned a goal but did not get one.

LINE 4 Markus Granlund-Gaetan Haas-Patrick Russell played 7:25, going 2-11 Corsi, 2-6 shots, no goals and 0-1 HDSC.

Markus Granlund forechecked well and missed an empty net, something the Oilers are genuinely impressive in accomplishing. Gaetan Haas had a shot, interrupted progress well and spent a surprising amount of time (3:03) against the Danault line. Patrick Russell had one takeaway and worked hard along the wall.

PAIRING ONE Darnell Nurse and Ethan Bear played 16:58, going 12-18 Corsi, 6-11 shots, 2-1 goals and 3-4 HDSC.

Darnell Nurse had a poor night, with three giveaways and a ghastly decision against Max Domi that directly resulted in the goal that tied the game 3-3 in the third period. That can’t happen, Nurse knows it. Bear also reacted slowly on the Domi play, but had a better story overall to tell. Bear had a brilliant assist on the Archibald goal (he can see things other defenseman cannot in terms of creative playmaking), two shots and received 1:12 in power-play time. He may eat all the lunches in due time.

PAIRING TWO Oscar Klefbom and Adam Larsson played 16:07 and got caved 8-27 in possession, 4-9 shots, no goals and no HDSC. Went 2-15 in 6:51 against Tatar-Danault-Gallagher, bent but did not break.

Oscar Klefbom had one shot, one giveaway and four blocked shots, he still reminds me of Serge Savard but now it’s post-injuries Savard who became more of a defensive stalwart. Klefbom is a fine player. Adam Larsson was made for nights like this one, when you need the high danger area swept of land mines on the double. Had a giveaway but was reliable and mean. I like this player very much.

PAIRING THREE Kris Russell and Caleb Jones played 10:52, going 12-5 Corsi, 6-2 shots, 1-0 goals and 3-0 HDSC.

Kris Russell defended as always, had one offensive sojourn that ended without a goal. Caleb Jones had a shot, a penalty and two giveaways but he’s learning on the job quickly and I believe he’ll be one of Edmonton’s top-six blue opening night 2020-21.

GOALIE Mikko Koskinen stopped 23 of 26, .885 overall but was stellar at five on five (21 of 22, .955). I don’t fault him on the Danault or Domi goal, wonder about the Petry item but it was an odd-man rush. Stoned many Habs chances (five for five on HDSC at five on five) and now owns a 13-6-2 record this season.

CONDORS 2019-20

Condors outshot the Colorado Eagles last night, had Shane Starrett in goal and still lost 4-1. I was thinking the team would correct when the veteran goalie returned and that could still happen, but early results are similar to the games Stuart Skinner backstopped early in the year. Condors play in Loveland at 3 this afternoon.

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295 Responses to "Sunday Drive"

« Older Comments
  1. Wilde says:

    Lowetide:
    Quinn Phillips
    @QJPhillips
    ·
    2h
    #oilers forward Tomas Jurco just posted on his Instagram he underwent hip surgery a few days ago. The injury has been bothering him for a while. Jurco has cleared waivers and was assigned to Bakersfield just over a month ago

    oh my actual god why do they hate us

  2. Wilde says:

    Bakersfield Condors v. Colorado Eagles, December 22nd, 2019; after Period One:

    24CF-13CA
    17FF-5FA
    1GF-1GA

    Top F: Esposito (1.42 Game Score)
    3 shot attempts, 2 shot assists
    1 assist
    12CF-3CA
    1GF-1GA

    Top D: Lowe (1.63 Game Score)
    5 shot attempts, 1 shot assist
    1 goal
    11CF-3CA
    1GF-0GA

  3. godot10 says:

    Wilde:
    keegan lowe has scored a goal, i repeat, keegan lowe has scored a goal

    Joel Persson works miracles everywhere! -)

  4. Dicky94 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    If he draws that many penalties, maybe he will be the next one called up. Help the Oilers make the playoffs with pp time.

  5. godot10 says:

    leadfarmer:
    I still don’t like that Bear is playing this many games and I would give him the week off.Let him recharge and let someone else have a Christmas bonus
    I probably wouldn’t take Mcdavid and Drai to Vancouver and let them regroup too.We’ve been riding them like a rented mule as it is
    But I’m a believer young bodies need rest more than others

    Christmas break is coming and January schedule is light because of the Oilers schedule break and the Allstars break.

    Aside: No need to start Smith till February

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    drglen:
    Didn’t like Kurt Leavins article.. praising holland, stick with the plan, develop in the minors.. etc etc.if Oilers lost that game…. today is a very different day. Bringing someone up is not all or nothing. ( I could be wrong on that because of contract and waiver issues, admittedly,) .. but if you’ve got a losing streak and you park Khaira and Ganger, .. have a look at Benson, or Yam for a few games. Also cherry picking quotes. Holland has also said,team needs to win games.

    At the end of the day, Koskinen determines the fate of this team.Having said that I’m very glad to see sheehan coming on, and I really think that is the spot for Nyggard ( with archi and shee)… that is a good, good, fast forechecking line.

    Why would the plan change?

    The plan was to make small improvements that could hopefully improve the team to be in the playoffs this year but, ultimately the focus of the plan is building a consistent contender over the next 2-3 years.

    Has anything happened this year that would/could/should alter that plan?

    Prior to the season, most hoped that the team would be in the position to fight for a playoff spot – that is exactly the spot the team is in. Yup, the way we’ve got to where we are in this season may be a bit different than predicted/projected but the spot, half way through the season is the same.

    At the beginning of the year, if most were told the team would be where they are in the standings, I think most would agree not to be major buyers – big future assets out for expiring contracts – Taylor Hall type acquisitions.

    Nothing has really changed expect for posters/fans perceptions and maybe expectations due to the hot start.

    Of course, many who, in September say what they would want in a specific situation in December may feel different when December comes.

    Holland’s plan is probably, in the aggregate, going as he thought and I don’t see him changing from his stated plan at all.

    There was/is no way that the 1st round pick, Bouchard or Broberg are being deal for anything shot of a substantial player with term and prime years left.

  7. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer:
    You guys should go over to Lowetide’s link and post a comment if you have the Athletic
    Think it would be a good sign of encouragement if he had a fraction of the comments there as he does here

    Love The Athletic but the comments section is indeed a comments section and not set up for conversation at all.

  8. SamGunsch says:

    re: Bear ‘he can see things other defenseman cannot in terms of creative playmaking),’

    1000% And makes super-quick decisions to act on what he sees.

  9. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Wilde: oh my actual god why do they hate us

    On the upside, perhaps they get a player that can help the NHL team back.

  10. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    leadfarmer:
    If the contracts are 4×4 for Kassian and 7 per for Nurse then Holland is definitely the problem and not a solution
    5.5 per for 8 for Nurse
    3×3 for Kassian.
    I don’t go 4 years on Kassian

    Ryan: When both turn down your offer, what’s your next move?

    I say thanks and look at the list of available complementary right wingers that can handle playing with two of the top players in the league and a generational talent.
    There are several <= 3M AAV options available

    If Kass and his camp have a hard time with that, then the coach should play Archie at 1RW for 10 games for some perspective.
    See how Kass plays over that stretch at 3RW.

  11. Wilde says:

    Scungilli Slushy: On the upside, perhaps they get a player that can help the NHL team back.

    ?? I’m referring to how they don’t bother doing any injury updates

  12. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woodguy v2.0: All Canadian hockey teams should be named after the nearest “World’s Largest” thing.

    Do you really want to be a fan of the Edmonton Digglers? Cause I live pretty close.

  13. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Wilde: ?? I’m referring to how they don’t bother doing any injury updates

    Right, I took it that yet another Oiler has a joint injury.

    Looking for the upside. But yes the secrecy is frustrating.

  14. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    leadfarmer:
    Long term Nurse contract possibilities (6-8 years)
    5 mil per.Great deal.Bravo.Well done
    5.5 mil per.Good deal.Well done for both sides
    6 mil per.Ok good deal.Fair
    6.5 per.Too much.Guess you don’t want to argue too much over 500k, but really too much
    7mil per.Are you even negotiating??

    Yes

  15. Scungilli Slushy says:

    jtblack: I dont pay Nurse 1 penny over $6 Mil on a long term deal.He has value but I dont see a higher level than ho hes playing now. Hes solid all around but still struggles on out let passes and O zone creativity (back to NURSE and he shoots a muffin to the goalie. Play over)

    I think they should try a 2 or 3 yr deal with. After 2 or 3 years they will know what they have in Broberg, Lagesson, Samorukov etc ..

    To me this is where great GMs make their money. Know what you have, and if the market is overvaluing your players cash in, with a plan of course.

    There may be playoffs, but there won’t be a cup. So get better pieces to win a Cup.

  16. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    godot10: Nurse will be tradeable in two or three years at a #3D’s salary, which is $6.5 million.If you don’t sign him for duration, and the prospects fail, then one is facing signing him as a UFA in two or three years for even more money.

    The prospects should arrive or fail to arrive when Nurse is at his peak with 3 or 4 year remaining on his contract at a reasonable number.

    Nurse will be tradeable if the Broberg turns out.And you would have him signed if Broberg busts.

    That is how one hedges, by signing Nurse long term to a good #3D salary….around $6.5 to $7 million.

    Nurse has the even strength boxcars going into arbitration, carrying a rookie against tough opposition.He is getting paid market value next year one way or another.

    Who is carrying who
    Or whom
    Or whatever
    You know what I mean.

  17. Wilde says:

    Scungilli Slushy,

    I’m still holding out hope that their intentions are to do with secrecy b/c the more we find out about injuries off-hand from general interviews (Yamamoto via DNB) and through The Instagram Posts on the Players Fucking Account the more it seems like they literally just couldn’t give a damn enough to post updates

  18. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    I almost wrote about Shane Starrett today, had planned on looking at his numbers a year ago and suggesting that if he could put together a month’s worth of quality starts it was possible we’d see him get a look. Can’t stay healthy.

    Ya, I’ve been saying for the 48 hours that the most important thing this weekend was Starrett getting back to back starts and performing like he usually does.

    Of note, it seems its the same injury, the groin, not multiple different injuries.

    I’m sure you knew, but not that everyone else did.

    I’m a tad bit miffed the org didn’t ensure he was 100% before returning.

  19. JimmyV1965 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: I say thanks and look at the list of available complementary right wingers that can handle playing withtwo of the top players in the league and a generational talent.
    There are several <= 3M AAV options available

    If Kass and his camp have a hard time with that, then the coach should play Archie at 1RW for 10 games for some perspective.
    See how Kass plays over that stretch at 3RW.

    If the coach starts making lineup decisions based on contracts, we are truly in trouble. Thank goodness it will never happen.

  20. Oil2Oilers says:

    Starett’s injury today might cost him a career. A good run of 10 games might of got him a shot at the show. Now, that is unlikely, and the big club will have to shop elsewhere – sooner or later.

  21. Scungilli Slushy says:

    leadfarmer:
    If Nurse wants 7 mil plus I’m talking with other GMs while in contract negotiations with him.

    Nurse I imagine would have a whack of trade value.

    Perhaps enough to ditch some long term dead cap at the same time.

  22. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Loved Petry. Love Nurse. I think fans on this blog and many on twitter really undervalue veteran defensemen who can play top 4D. Holy crap life is miserable without them.

    I may have been Petry’s biggest fan and never understood why he was, in my opinion, under-valued by both the general fanbase and management.

    He was a wonderful 3D (low end 2D) when he left the org and has blossomed in to a legit 2D.

    This gives us a bit of a look in to what we can expect from Klef and Nurse as they approach their prime years – yes, its true, for a d-man, I believe late 20s/early 30s is still the prime.

    Its a tough position.

  23. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Wilde:
    Scungilli Slushy,

    I’m still holding out hope that their intentions are to do with secrecy b/c the more we find out about injuries off-hand from general interviews (Yamamoto via DNB) and through The Instagram Posts on the Players Fucking Account the more it seems like they literally just couldn’t give a damn enough to post updates

    We know many teams are pretty slack in scouting. As in apparently nobody goes to Prince George bcs it’s too far, allowing JJ to drop in the draft.

    MAYBE they don’t want to create a ‘book’ on players being injury prone. An easy look up if it’s posted by the team. Although we’d have to see some trades to get an idea about that.

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    Nobody: According to this article, it was the OHL if Broberg came over this year.

    https://www.nhl.com/oilers/news/blog-broberg-to-play-in-sweden-for-2019-20-season/c-308382848

    Yes, realistically, this year, he wasn’t going to play in the AHL – its was playing pro in the SHL or heading to junior – not necessarily because the AHL wasn’t a legal option but wasn’t a legit development option for this season.

  25. v4ance says:

    JimmyV1965: If the coach starts making lineup decisions based on contracts, we are truly in trouble. Thank goodness it will never happen.

    Milan Lucic says “Hi”

  26. drglen says:

    OriginalPouzar: Why would the plan change?

    The plan was to make small improvements that could hopefully improve the team to be in the playoffs this year but, ultimately the focus of the plan is building a consistent contender over the next 2-3 years.

    Has anything happened this year that would/could/should alter that plan?

    Prior to the season, most hoped that the team would be in the position to fight for a playoff spot – that is exactly the spot the team is in.Yup, the way we’ve got to where we are in this season may be a bit different than predicted/projected but the spot, half way through the season is the same.

    At the beginning of the year, if most were told the team would be where they are in the standings, I think most would agree not to be major buyers – big future assets out for expiring contracts – Taylor Hall type acquisitions.

    Nothing has really changed expect for posters/fans perceptions and maybe expectations due to the hot start.

    Of course, many who, in September say what they would want in a specific situation in December may feel different when December comes.

    Holland’s plan is probably, in the aggregate, going as he thought and I don’t see him changing from his stated plan at all.

    There was/is no way that the 1st round pick, Bouchard or Broberg are being deal for anything shot of a substantial player with term and prime years left.

    on mass you are probably right. If we started terribly and scratched and scraped our way up to where we are now, we’d be very pleased.

  27. drglen says:

    Oil2Oilers:
    Starett’s injury today might cost him a career. A good run of 10 games might of got him a shot at the show. Now, that is unlikely, and the big club will have to shop elsewhere – sooner or later.

    injured? Damn.

  28. Victoria Oil says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Its perfectly reasonable to doubt me.

    If you need practice at it my wife gives classes.

    I count all EN goals there so that includes scoring against an empty net and scoring with your goalie pulled.

    EDM has scored 1 (!!) goal into an empty net this year and have scored 5(!) with their own goalie pulled.

    Got it, thanks.

    Didn’t realize you were including the goals we scored with our goalie pulled.

    So the actual EN tally is what? 1-7 or 1-8 or something like that?

    Woodguy v2.0: EDM with their goalie pulled 5 for, 7 against
    EDM with the opposition goalie pulled 1 for, 2 against.

    League average for a team against an empty net is 68% of the goal share.EDM has 33% so far.

    Thanks very much for this. So to re-arrange the numbers, the glass half-full view is that the Oilers have scored 5 goals with their goalie pulled and the opposition has only scored 2 when they have pulled their goalie. The half-empty view is that the Oil have only scored 1 goal into an empty net while the opposition has scored 7.

  29. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, realistically, this year, he wasn’t going to play in the AHL – its was playing pro in the SHL or heading to junior – not necessarily because the AHL wasn’t a legal option but wasn’t a legit development option for this season.

    I’ve thought this too, but DET’s trying it with Moritz Seider and it’s not like the SHL isn’t a harder league than the AHL imo

    Scungilli Slushy:

    We know many teams are pretty slack in scouting. As in apparently nobody goes to Prince George bcs it’s too far, allowing JJ to drop in the draft.

    MAYBE they don’t want to create a ‘book’ on players being injury prone. An easy look up if it’s posted by the team. Although we’d have to see some trades to get an idea about that.

    Exactly but if it was an actual policy then the players would be in on it, and wouldn’t post about it on insta – plus idk if hockey people keep their mouth shut about anything except for actually illicit activity to be honest

  30. northerndancer says:

    Scungilli Slushy: We know many teams are pretty slack in scouting. As in apparently nobody goes to Prince George bcs it’s too far, allowing JJ to drop in the draft.

    MAYBE they don’t want to create a ‘book’ on players being injury prone. An easy look up if it’s posted by the team. Although we’d have to see some trades to get an idea about that.

    I think lack of information about injury details these days has much more to do with privacy rights than anything else. Very few people are entitled to my or anyone else’s medical information. Medical restrictions yes, maybe. Diagnosis, no. Prognosis, return to ice/work, only on as need basis. Fan curiosity ranks at the very bottom of need to know pyramid.

  31. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    JimmyV1965: If the coach starts making lineup decisions based on contracts, we are truly in trouble. Thank goodness it will never happen.

    Don’t you think It would be a good organizational Idea to see how another player on the team plays 1RW With McD and Drai before signing 4×4?
    Pure foolishness

  32. Nit64 says:

    northerndancer: I think lack of information about injury details these days has much more to do with privacy rights than anything else.Very few people are entitled to my or anyone else’s medical information.Medical restrictions yes, maybe.Diagnosis, no.Prognosis, return to ice/work, only on as need basis.Fan curiosity ranks at the very bottom of need to know pyramid.

    Official policy or no, if the injured player does not want details out there team’s gonna to say the minimum.

  33. Harpers Hair says:

    northerndancer: I think lack of information about injury details these days has much more to do with privacy rights than anything else.Very few people are entitled to my or anyone else’s medical information.Medical restrictions yes, maybe.Diagnosis, no.Prognosis, return to ice/work, only on as need basis.Fan curiosity ranks at the very bottom of need to know pyramid.

    This will have to change to complete openness as gambling is embraced by the league.

    That will create the need.

  34. Wilde says:

    Bakersfield Condors v. Colorado Eagles, December 22nd, 2019; after two Periods:

    39CF-24CA
    24FF-12FA
    2GF-1GA

    Top F: Esposito (1.72 Game Score)
    4 shot attempts, 3 shot assists
    1 assist
    17CF-4CA
    1GF-1GA

    Top D: Lowe (2.08 Game Score)
    5 shot attempts, 1 shot assist
    1 goal
    19CF-5CA
    2GF-0GA

  35. Wilde says:

    northerndancer: I think lack of information about injury details these days has much more to do with privacy rights than anything else.Very few people are entitled to my or anyone else’s medical information.Medical restrictions yes, maybe.Diagnosis, no.Prognosis, return to ice/work, only on as need basis.Fan curiosity ranks at the very bottom of need to know pyramid.

    I would absolutely be sympathetic if that was the reason, all I want is to know whether or not a player is a healthy scratch or is injured. We don’t even get that

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    drglen: injured? Damn.

    Seems he was never actually not injured – came back finally after almost two months, played two games, missed another few, came back, played 2 and a bit and left the game.

  37. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: Christmas break is coming and January schedule is light because of the Oilers schedule break and the Allstars break.

    Aside: No need to start Smith till February

    I looked at the schedule and Koskinen can get proper rest until the end of January with only the January 3rd game in Buffalo going to Smith

  38. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Andy Dufresne: Why do you hate Kassian so Much? (kidding..I know you like him 2x$2.5)

    Can we add columns for:

    1) sample size
    2) Even Strength Points per 60
    3) Playoff Points / 60
    4) Game Changing Hits/60 (yes I realize some dont beleive these exist)
    5)Dollars per even strength points(with Players current AAV)

    Of course Im kidding
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Sort of

    1) I’ll show TOI at the end. To do it now gives it away.

    2) Here’s 5v5 pts/60:

    Total points/60 (includes 2nd assists)
    Player 1 -2.23
    Player 2 -2.05
    Player 3 -2.29
    Player 4 -2.32

    3) Kassian played 11:30 with McDavid in the playoffs and there was not a goal scored, so he would add 11.5 minutes at 0/60.

    Are you *sure* you want me to add that in?

    If you want me to add playoff scoring rates without McDavid, Kassian scored at 0.81 pts/60 5v5 in the playoffs which was 9th on the Oilers that spring.

    Are you *sure* you want me to add that in?

    4) Can I include 5v5 penalty differential too?

    5) This is a good idea. I will use points over their current contracts.

  39. JimmyV1965 says:

    v4ance: Milan Lucic says “Hi”

    Do you honestly believe coaches played Milan Lucic in the top six because of his contract?

  40. Bag of Pucks says:

    OriginalPouzar: Nurse is the better hitter?Tell that to Hemmer….

    I’ll see your Phaneuf and raise you a Regehr.

  41. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Georgexs: Hopefully they don’t hire another lawyer to do their analytics work.

    That’s like bringing a butter knife to a gunfight.

    They hired Dark Horse Analytics. They are the ones who brought Mike Partkatti on board after he won the hack-a-thon.

    It was Eakins who brought on Tyler as a consultant.

    Tyler is now VP Analytics for NJD.

    Tyler’s first hire was Matt Cane who was one of my favorite fancystats writers.

    He was the guy who figured out that zone starts are mostly earned so not to correct results too much for heavy DZS unless it was their “shift start” and not just a faceoff.

    https://puckplusplus.com/2015/01/15/how-much-do-zone-starts-matter-i-maybe-not-as-much-as-we-thought/

    With the volume of data coming in teams needs analytics departments, not “a person to do their analytics work”

  42. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Georgexs: Georg

    He doesn’t include EN goals.

    I do.

  43. JimmyV1965 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Don’t you think It would be a good organizational Idea to see how another player on the team plays 1RW With McD and Drai before signing 4×4?
    Pure foolishness

    It doesn’t matter what I think, or what the GM thinks. The coach is making decisions based on winning and what he thinks will help the team today and in the future. He’s not taking any player off a line to show him the what’s what in contract talks.

  44. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer: stats pi

    When a team chooses the players with the best points rate left on the board its not “a stats pick”

    Its a “BPA” pick.

  45. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Do you really want to be a fan of the Edmonton Digglers? Cause I live pretty close.

    That’s weird that it shows it quoted from me because it was another poster who said it.

    I agreed with it.

    Also,

    Edmonton has the world’s largest movie porn star penis?

  46. Bag of Pucks says:

    leadfarmer:
    If Nurse wants 7 mil plus I’m talking with other GMs while in contract negotiations with him.

    This is the correct course of action.

    It’s amusing to me how many players Oiler fans regard as irreplaceable. There are two such players on the Oil and Nurse is not one of them.

    Nurse can theoretically be traded for an equally effective more cap efficient D.

    We simultaneously bemoan the lack of deprh while arguing to overpay on contracts. Illogical.

  47. Wilde says:

    a goaltending update from Bakersfield:

    https://streamable.com/2dw9j

    (Martin Kaut is a decent goalscorers, in the classical sense, but that’s not making him work for it)

  48. HT Joe says:

    JimmyV1965: Do you honestly believe coaches played Milan Lucic in the top six because of his contract?

    Yes. Don’t most people believe that his huge contract gave him more time in the top six than his play warranted?

  49. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Victoria Oil,

    Thanks very much for this. So to re-arrange the numbers, the glass half-full view is that the Oilers have scored 5 goals with their goalie pulled and the opposition has only scored 2 when they have pulled their goalie. The half-empty view is that the Oil have only scored 1 goal into an empty net while the opposition has scored 7.

    We can break this down into rates and where they stack up in the NHL to take total TOI into account as absolute goals counts are reliant on opportunity (TOI).

    EDM’s goalie pulled (6v5)
    Goals For 20.0/60 – 2nd in NHL (yay!, they used to be awful at this) (NHL median 8.3/60)
    Goals Against 28.1/60 30th in NHL. Boo. (NHL median 16.2/60)

    Opposition goalie pulled (5v6)
    Goals For 2.6/60 – 31st in NHL (NHL median is 14.9/60)
    Goals Against 5.2/60 11th in NHL (NHL median is 7.1/60)

  50. Bag of Pucks says:

    JimmyV1965: Do you honestly believe coaches played Milan Lucic in the top six because of his contract?

    This is entirely possible. The HC & GM talk regularly including moves involving the biggest contract players. You can bet if MacLellan was going to pressbox Lucic, he would’ve discussed it with Chiarelli first. Similarily, when you’ve got a player on a longterm deal, it’s in the vested interest of the organization to get the player productive and earning his contract.

    The GM shouldn’t and likely doesn’t tell the HC who and where to slot the players. But if you’re an HC and you start treating your GMs most expensive adds like spare parts, it’s probably not the best move to ensure job security.

  51. OriginalPouzar says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Don’t you think It would be a good organizational Idea to see how another player on the team plays 1RW With McD and Drai before signing 4×4?
    Pure foolishness

    Yes, sure, that has merit but, at the same time, the coach needs to deploy his 23 man roster in a way that he believes gives his team the best chance to win each and every night – they are in the middle of a playoff race. Maybe, maybe down the stretch if the team is out of it but, at this point, the coach cannot deploy his roster with future cap implications in mind.

    Given Lagesson receiving not a single at bat over Manning by the coach, I’m certain the GM isn’t going to be meddling in the coach’s game management either. I would think Holland wouldn’t have minded 2, 3, 6 games of info on Willie.

  52. northerndancer says:

    Harpers Hair: This will have to change to complete openness as gambling is embraced by the league.

    That will create the need.

    It is not about a ‘business’ model. Canadian human rights law rules supreme in Canada. Literally, supreme court decisions regarding accommodation, individual rights related to use of personal medical information and who gets to know what. As it should be. If the players want to keep things quiet or let out the details, such as the case with Jurco, they can do that. But they don’t have to. Not in Canada anyway. I am good with that. Why should my employer or anyone else know why I can’t do the job. They only need to know that I can’t and when they can expect me to be able to, if ever. There are nuances of course but that is how things work now.

  53. northerndancer says:

    Wilde: I would absolutely be sympathetic if that was the reason, all I want is to know whether or not a player is a healthy scratch or is injured. We don’t even get that

    I hear you on that. The lack of info on those decisions might have more to do with the coaches relationship with the players and not wanting to have to put a player on the spot that way. Just guessing.

  54. JimmyV1965 says:

    HT Joe: Yes. Don’t most people believe that his huge contract gave him more time in the top six than his play warranted?

    Only in an indirect way and that’s grasping at straws. He was paid $6 mill because the braintrust thought he was good. They were wrong. Coaches played him in the top six because they thought he was good. They thought this because some fool decided to give him a big contract, and he also had a big reputation. No coach looks down the bench, and looks at contracts to determine who slots where. I can’t believe this is even an argument.

  55. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bag of Pucks: This is entirely possible. The HC & GM talk regularly including moves involving the biggest contract players. You can bet if MacLellan was going to pressbox Lucic, he would’ve discussed it with Chiarelli first. Similarily, when you’ve got a player on a longterm deal, it’s in the vested interest of the organization to get the player productive and earning his contract.

    The GM shouldn’t and likely doesn’t tell the HC who and where to slot the players. But if you’re an HC and you start treating your GMs most expensive adds like spare parts, it’s probably not the best move to ensure job security.

    Guys are paid big money because they have a big reputation for being good players. The reputation is the reason bad players hang around longer, not the contract. In the Oilers case, Lucic hung around longer because our wingers were so putrid. Not because of his contract.

  56. Georgexs says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Tyler is now VP Analytics for NJD.

    That’s a relief.

    … But why would NJD do that?

  57. Wilde says:

    Bakersfield Condors v. Colorado Eagles, December 22nd, 2019; Game Totals:

    47 CF – 24 CA
    26 FF – 20 FA
    3 GF – 4 GA

    Top F: Maksimov (1.79 Game Score)
    7 shot attempts, 4 shot assists (!)
    1 goal
    23CF – 14CA
    2GF – 2GA

    Top D: Lowe (1.88 Game Score)
    5 shot attempts, 1 shot assist
    1 goal
    23CF – 10CA
    2GF – 1GA

    Missing about 2 1/2 minutes from the 3rd period where they switched to the long, high corner camera, too far to read players’ numbers & the final ~50 seconds or so where they just switched the ‘game over’ overlay on randomly and never took it off until the game was actually over

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    HTJoe: Yes. Don’t most people believe that his huge contract gave him more time in the top six than his play warranted?

    I don’t.

    The org was paying Mark Fayne $3.5M to play in the AHL for a good part of that time.

    I believe that was the coach deploying the lineup how he though it best in the name of winning – that game and in the future (i.e. hoping the player would gain confidence and play in the future how he had in the past, etc.).

    The extra rope was due to past performance and style of play, in my opinion, not contract.

    The current coach has done everthing he can to keep Kris Russell and his $4M on the third pairing.

  59. OriginalPouzar says:

    BagofPucks: This is entirely possible. The HC & GM talk regularly including moves involving the biggest contract players. You can bet if MacLellan was going to pressbox Lucic, he would’ve discussed it with Chiarelli first. Similarily, when you’ve got a player on a longterm deal, it’s in the vested interest of the organization to get the player productive and earning his contract.

    The GM shouldn’t and likely doesn’t tell the HC who and where to slot the players. But if you’re an HC and you start treating your GMs most expensive adds like spare parts, it’s probably not the best move to ensure job security.

    I though the general consensus among Oiler fans were that McLellan and Chiarelli were not on the same page – often used example is Chiarelli always stating he saw Drai as a center but McLellan rarely lining him up as such.

  60. Harpers Hair says:

    northerndancer: It is not about a‘business’ model.Canadian human rights law rules supreme in Canada.Literally, supreme court decisions regarding accommodation, individual rights related to use of personal medical information and who gets to know what. As it should be. If the players want to keep things quiet or let out the details, such as the case with Jurco, they can do that.But they don’t have to.Not in Canada anyway. I am good with that.Why should my employer or anyone else know why I can’t do the job.They only need to know that I can’t and when they can expect me to be able to, if ever.There are nuances of course but that is how things work now.

    In order for wagering to work in the league I imagine players will be required to sign waivers.

  61. OriginalPouzar says:

    northerndancer: It is not about a‘business’ model.Canadian human rights law rules supreme in Canada.Literally, supreme court decisions regarding accommodation, individual rights related to use of personal medical information and who gets to know what. As it should be. If the players want to keep things quiet or let out the details, such as the case with Jurco, they can do that.But they don’t have to.Not in Canada anyway. I am good with that.Why should my employer or anyone else know why I can’t do the job.They only need to know that I can’t and when they can expect me to be able to, if ever.There are nuances of course but that is how things work now.

    Players that sign contracts to play in the NHL agree to the terms of the CBA that alter may legal principals. There are various legal principals that cannot be altered by law and, while, yes, I am a lawyer, I admit to not know if this is one of those areas.

  62. Pescador says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s weird that it shows it quoted from me because it was another poster who said it.

    I agreed with it.

    Also,

    Edmonton has the world’s largest movie porn star penis?

    The only thing incorrect about this is that I don’t actually live in Edmonton, I just have my mail sent there

  63. northerndancer says:

    OriginalPouzar: Players that sign contracts to play in the NHL agree to the terms of the CBA that alter may legal principals. There are various legal principals that cannot be altered by law and, while, yes, I am a lawyer, I admit to not know if this is one of those areas.

    The nuances and edges of these rights are being tested, both ways, all the time. And have been since the 90’s, although things are much clearer now than back then. I suspect that in many cases the team/league are not pushing too hard on complete disclosure because there is little to be gained by having personal medical details being disclosed to the public. The team will no doubt know the details but the public doesn’t need to know, even though they may be curious. That is why we don’t hear about the details of ‘personal’ leaves etc.

  64. Bag of Pucks says:

    JimmyV1965: Guys are paid big money because they have a big reputation for being good players. The reputation is the reason bad players hang around longer, not the contract. In the Oilers case, Lucic hung around longer because our wingers were so putrid. Not because of his contract.

    He stayed in the dance cos they had to preserve some value (however poor) as a tradeable asset.

  65. HT Joe says:

    I’m not trying to make an argument here, but a I the only poster that thinks Lucic got more at-bats in the top six than he deserved because of his inflated contract?

    It’s like demoting the boss’s incompetent son… it could be the right thing to do, but not every manager will do it.

    OP: Fayne was sent down by Chia but signed by MacT, no? That’s like demoting your ex-boss’s son.

  66. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Don’t you think It would be a good organizational Idea to see how another player on the team plays 1RW With McD and Drai before signing 4×4?
    Pure foolishness

    There’s a list of RW who performed just as well with McDavid as Kassian does, some without the benefit of Drai on the line as well.

  67. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Georgexs: That’s a relief.

    … But why would NJD do that?

    If that’s your opinion then I guess you aren’t very familiar with the hockey analytics community, plugged in the anyone in the hockey analytics community or familiar with all of his work.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    We should mentioned the late goals by Maksimov and Marody to pull the Condors back to within 1 after the tending let them down, Smith style.

  69. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s weird that it shows it quoted from me because it was another poster who said it.

    I agreed with it.

    Also,

    Edmonton has the world’s largest movie porn star penis?

    Sorry, bad joke.

    Yes the quoting is odd.

  70. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Pescador: The only thing incorrect about this is that I don’t actually live in Edmonton, I just have my mail sent there

    Find your own schtick, so to speak.

  71. Alpine says:

    With regards to Nurse, we used to complain frequently in the Oilogosphere about the Oilers trading NHL quality players before the prospects were ready to replace them, if they ever did.

    I suppose the landscape of the NHL has changed where teams just bet on youngsters, and more frequently on defense, to perform right away, and you get Chabot, McAvoy, Heiskanen and Hughes being good out of the gate.

    I don’t think we have one of those as Jones and Samurukov will probably be okay NHLers if all goes right, and Bouchard will get Larsson’s spot if he is in that elite class. That leaves Broberg and he is not tracking like Heiskanen was but more like Klefbom or Branstromm or Jacob Larsson, which is fine. Puts him at 3 years away from becoming a top four guy.

    Nurse compares pretty closely to Klefbom by most statistical models, maybe some extra TOI with 97 aiding that, but I don’t know if we’d be trying to trade Klef now if he was due a 6+ million contract in July. Sakic and Armstrong don’t seem to regret moving Barrie or Shattenkirk but we don’t have someone like Parayko that you can hand the keys to or Makar that’s ready to break out.

    Are Jones’ results gonna be good enough by season’s end to justify the call to move Nurse? That would be something.

  72. Georgexs says:

    Woodguy v2.0: If that’s your opinion then I guess you aren’t very familiar with the hockey analytics community, plugged in the anyone in the hockey analytics community or familiar with all of his work.

    Clearly not plugged in, but I’ve read some of his work on the Athletic. A lawyer would be able to tell when they’re dealing with someone who isn’t a lawyer. It’s like that.

  73. Lowetide says:

    Georgexs: Clearly not plugged in, but I’ve read some of his work on the Athletic. A lawyer would be able to tell when they’re dealing with someone who isn’t a lawyer. It’s like that.

    I have to chime in here. Tyler Dellow is a respected person in the hockey community and a big part of the spirit of what this and other blogs represent. As Mr. Dellow isn’t going to come on this forum to defend himself, it falls to those of us who knew and learned from him to contest your words.

    Of all the things I thought this blog would bring up, Dellow’s knowledge and insight would be the very last thing I would guess. So, congratulations I guess, but my goodness it is an unfounded claim.

  74. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks: This is the correct course of action.

    It’s amusing to me how many players Oiler fans regard as irreplaceable. There are two such players on the Oil and Nurse is not one of them.

    Nurse can theoretically be traded for an equally effective more cap efficient D.

    We simultaneously bemoan the lack of deprh while arguing to overpay on contracts. Illogical.

    Over the last decade, only the Oilers have consistantly given up on players entering their prime 25-29 year old hockey years, leaving a perpetual doughnut hole in the roster. It is the primary reason the teams have been awful. A team composed of players that are old and declining, and players who have not established themselves, and a generation gap between the old guys and the young guys.

    The core of any team are players aged 25-29. If you leave that age group empty, you are almost guaranteed to be awful.

    One is not going to replace a 25-year old Nurse with an equivalent 25-year old D. Other teams are not so stupid to trade them.

  75. Ryan says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    I had somehow forgotten about Dark horse analytics.

    In fairness, I never heard much about their role or anything specific that they did. I always remember hearing “Dan Haight” or something from DHA….

    From a conversation you and I had once, I do recall you know a lot more about that than I did.

    Looking at their website, it certainly seems very much a robust “big data-y” type of operation.

  76. JimmyV1965 says:

    HT Joe:
    I’m not trying to make an argument here, but a I the only poster that thinks Lucic got more at-bats in the top six than he deserved because of his inflated contract?

    It’s like demoting the boss’s incompetent son… it could be the right thing to do, but not every manager will do it.

    OP:Fayne was sent down by Chia but signed by MacT, no?That’s like demoting your ex-boss’s son.

    I think Lucic hung around the top six longer than warranted because there were no better options. He had a reputation for being a top six winger, which got him a bloated contract and more leash than most players. If our wingers were better, his leash would have been shorter.

    JP is a good example. We don’t know this for sure, but most people believe Chia worked out some arrangement with the player that he would not be sent to the AHL in his first year. The coach didn’t like the player and used him sparingly, making him a healthy scratch and playing him for less than 10 minutes most games.

  77. JimmyV1965 says:

    godot10: Over the last decade, only the Oilers have consistantly given up on players entering their prime 25-29year old hockey years, leaving a perpetual doughnut hole in the roster.It is the primary reason the teams have been awful.A team composed of players that are old and declining, and players who have not established themselves, and a generation gap between the old guys and the young guys.

    The core of any team are players aged 25-29.If you leave that age group empty, you are almost guaranteed to be awful.

    One is not going to replace a 25-year old Nurse with an equivalent 25-year old D.Other teams are not so stupid to trade them.

    Nice post.

  78. Bag of Pucks says:

    godot10: Over the last decade, only the Oilers have consistantly given up on players entering their prime 25-29year old hockey years, leaving a perpetual doughnut hole in the roster.It is the primary reason the teams have been awful.A team composed of players that are old and declining, and players who have not established themselves, and a generation gap between the old guys and the young guys.

    The core of any team are players aged 25-29.If you leave that age group empty, you are almost guaranteed to be awful.

    One is not going to replace a 25-year old Nurse with an equivalent 25-year old D.Other teams are not so stupid to trade them.

    Giving up on players too soon is not the primary reason the Oilers were bad. Piss poor management and the inability to draft & develop was.

    They had 4 1OVs and they got 2 impact players out of it. Barzal pick for Reinhart. Hall for Larsson. Ference. Fayne. Lucic. And so on.

    Those are far bigger root causes than Petry or Cogliano or Dubnyk.

    Your argument seems to be “you have to keep Nurse at any cost.” I’m suggesting there’s a cost at which you look for more cap efficiency. It’s a reasonable take.

  79. who says:

    JimmyV1965: Do you honestly believe coaches played Milan Lucic in the top six because of his contract?

    I do.
    I see no other plausible explanation.

  80. jtblack says:

    godot10: Over the last decade, only the Oilers have consistantly given up on players entering their prime 25-29year old hockey years, leaving a perpetual doughnut hole in the roster.It is the primary reason the teams have been awful.A team composed of players that are old and declining, and players who have not established themselves, and a generation gap between the old guys and the young guys.

    The core of any team are players aged 25-29.If you leave that age group empty, you are almost guaranteed to be awful.

    One is not going to replace a 25-year old Nurse with an equivalent 25-year old D.Other teams are not so stupid to trade them.

    +1

  81. Halltheway says:

    godot10: Over the last decade, only the Oilers have consistantly given up on players entering their prime 25-29year old hockey years, leaving a perpetual doughnut hole in the roster.It is the primary reason the teams have been awful.A team composed of players that are old and declining, and players who have not established themselves, and a generation gap between the old guys and the young guys.

    The core of any team are players aged 25-29.If you leave that age group empty, you are almost guaranteed to be awful.

    One is not going to replace a 25-year old Nurse with an equivalent 25-year old D.Other teams are not so stupid to trade them.

    Agreed

  82. v4ance says:

    JimmyV1965: Do you honestly believe coaches played Milan Lucic in the top six because of his contract?

    Are you that naive to think he would have gotten another season and a half in the Top 6 with McDavid and RNH if he didn’t have that $6 million dollar contract?

    Lucic was acquired after McLellan was hired which probably meant the coach had input and blessed the signing. After that, the coach was invested in Lucic’s performance.

    Fayne was a holdover from the previous management of MacTavish. McLellan had no investment in Fayne other than he was one of the defencemen on the roster. Fayne played 69 games with McLellan’s first year Oilers and that $3.5 million contract kept him in the lineup most of the year even though he was too slow for the new NHL. It wasn’t til the second year that Fayne was sent down for good with only 4 more NHL games during the 2016-17 season. So if anything, Fayne adds weight to my point that contracts add pressure to coaches to keep them in the lineup even if they are underperforming.

    No coaches will openly admit it but the approval of the GM does affect their icetime decisions. So if you demote a player signed by your GM to a huge contract too early, there’s gotta be some pushback. The GM doesn’t want to look bad for signing a dud and the coach doesn’t want to be the one throwing the egg on their faces even if they know there might be a better roster option.

    LT refers to orphans when we talk about the leftover prospects during a regime change. Honestly roster players can become orphans too. Past performance is usually the first criteria when a new coach looks at his roster but the contracts color the decisions as well.

  83. HT Joe says:

    v4ance,

    +1

    Better put than the posts I was trying to put together last night. Thank you.

  84. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    JimmyV1965: It doesn’t matter what I think, or what the GM thinks. The coach is making decisions based on winning and what he thinks will help the team today and in the future. He’s not taking any player off a line to show him the what’s what in contract talks.

    Archie (or other) may be able to approximate what kass does on the 1st line.
    It would save the team about 3 M that they could use for a legit 3C
    It doesn’t matter what any one thinks
    I am stating my opinion on logical decision making in the best interest of the oilers
    That includes contracts and line ups and player development etc…

    You are suggesting the oilers just pay Kass 4×4 cause they have no other options

  85. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    JimmyV1965: If the coach starts making lineup decisions based on contracts, we are truly in trouble. Thank goodness it will never happen.

    Have you never witnessed “pump and dump” ??

  86. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Wilde:
    a goaltending update from Bakersfield:

    https://streamable.com/2dw9j

    (Martin Kaut is a decent goalscorers, in the classical sense, but that’s not making him work for it)

    The oilers are in a real pickle now with goalies.

  87. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, sure, that has merit but, at the same time, the coach needs to deploy his 23 man roster in a way that he believes gives his team the best chance to win each and every night – they are in the middle of a playoff race.Maybe, maybe down the stretch if the team is out of it but, at this point, the coach cannot deploy his roster with future cap implications in mind.

    Given Lagesson receiving not a single at bat over Manning by the coach, I’m certain the GM isn’t going to be meddling in the coach’s game management either. I would think Holland wouldn’t have minded 2, 3, 6 games of info on Willie.

    The coach is blending lines all the time
    What is likely to have a bigger effect on game outcome:
    Separating the dynamic duo or spotting Archie into 1Rw and kass to 3rw????
    Of course they are trying to win hockey games. Do you think that would be a major move???
    Do you think it would tank the season????
    Seriously.

  88. JimmyV1965 says:

    v4ance: Are you that naive to think he would have gotten another season and a half in the Top 6 with McDavid and RNH if he didn’t have that $6 million dollar contract?

    Lucic was acquired after McLellan was hired which probably meant the coach had input and blessed the signing.After that, the coach was invested in Lucic’s performance.

    Fayne was a holdover from the previous management of MacTavish.McLellan had no investment in Fayne other than he was one of the defencemen on the roster.Fayne played 69 games with McLellan’s first year Oilers and that $3.5 million contract kept him in the lineup most of the year even though he was too slow for the new NHL.It wasn’t til the second year that Fayne was sent down for good with only 4 more NHL games during the 2016-17 season.So if anything, Fayne adds weight to my point that contracts add pressure to coaches to keep them in the lineup even if they are underperforming.

    No coaches will openly admit it but the approval of the GM does affect their icetime decisions.So if you demote a player signed by your GM to a huge contract too early, there’s gotta be some pushback.The GM doesn’t want to look bad for signing a dud and the coach doesn’t want to be the one throwing the egg on their faces even if they know there might be a better roster option.

    LT refers to orphans when we talk about the leftover prospects during a regime change.Honestly roster players can become orphans too.Past performance is usually the first criteria when a new coach looks at his roster but the contracts color the decisions as well.

    I can agree with much of this. Just not the notion that NHL coaches make lineup decisions based on contract. It’s not naivety. GMs can certainly pressure coaches, but it would be more subtle and more likely to involve a rookie coach, not one with three decades of experience and a guaranteed contract. The GM had zero leverage. And the coach was certainly willing to demote and bench JP.

  89. JimmyV1965 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Archie (or other) may be able to approximate what kass does on the 1st line.
    It would save the team about 3 M that they could use for a legit 3C
    It doesn’t matter what any one thinks
    I am stating my opinion on logical decision making in the best interest of the oilers
    That includes contracts and line ups and player development etc…

    You are suggesting the oilers just pay Kass 4×4 cause they have no other options

    What? Why in the world would you think I’m suggesting we pay Kassian 4 x 4? I’m on the record saying 3 x 3 or trade him. I’m just pushing back against your original statement that the coach should play him as 3RW for 10 games as some kind of bargaining tool in contract talks.

  90. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: Over the last decade, only the Oilers have consistantly given up on players entering their prime 25-29year old hockey years, leaving a perpetual doughnut hole in the roster.It is the primary reason the teams have been awful.A team composed of players that are old and declining, and players who have not established themselves, and a generation gap between the old guys and the young guys.

    The core of any team are players aged 25-29.If you leave that age group empty, you are almost guaranteed to be awful.

    One is not going to replace a 25-year old Nurse with an equivalent 25-year old D.Other teams are not so stupid to trade them.

    That’s not right. What the Oilers have done is over-pay under-performing players in your made up bracket. The problem was the kids and the pensioners were better than these players.

    But the real problem is your over evaluation of Nurse. He ain’t all that and a bag of potato chips. To reiterate:

    He still makes rookie mistakes and doesn’t seem to learn from them.

    If that’s the case, let a rookie make those and cash in on his perceived value.

    Nobody here hates Nurse. It is impossible to keep every player and pay them what they want. So now you know what I’d do, what’s your plan?

  91. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    JimmyV1965: What? Why in the world would you think I’m suggesting we pay Kassian 4 x 4? I’m on the record saying 3 x 3 or trade him.I’m just pushing back against your original statement that the coach should play him as 3RW for 10 games as some kind of bargaining tool in contract talks.

    Ok
    Sorry for the misquote
    I am simply stating that the organization should be thinking about what options they have for 1RW so they do not overpay Kass for it…
    There are options
    Trying them out before offering an egregious contract is worthwhile in my opinion
    That can only be done by making some line up changes which happens in regularity on this team.
    That’s all I am saying.

  92. JimmyV1965 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Ok
    Sorry for the misquote
    I am simply stating that the organization should be thinking about what options they have for 1RW so they do not overpay Kass for it…
    There are options
    Trying them out before offering an egregious contract is worthwhile in my opinion
    That can only be done by making some line up changes which happens in regularity on this team.
    That’s all I am saying.

    Sure thing. I’m on board with that.

  93. JimmyV1965 says:

    Jethro Tull: That’s not right. What the Oilers have done is over-pay under-performing players in your made up bracket. The problem was the kids and the pensioners were better than these players.

    But the real problem is your over evaluation of Nurse. He ain’t all that and a bag of potato chips. To reiterate:

    He still makes rookie mistakes and doesn’t seem to learn from them.

    If that’s the case, let a rookie make those and cash in on his perceived value.

    Nobody here hates Nurse. It is impossible to keep every player and pay them what they want. So now you know what I’d do, what’s your plan?

    I think GODOT is on the record that he would resign Nurse. I think he said maybe as much as $7 mill, but I don’t want to put words in his mouth. What’s your plan beyond not signing him? You can trade him for sure, but for who? And how do you fill the hole at 2LD?

  94. godot10 says:

    Jethro Tull: That’s not right. What the Oilers have done is over-pay under-performing players in your made up bracket. The problem was the kids and the pensioners were better than these players.

    Can you name a single player the Oilers have added over the last 15 years of suck that the Oilers have added at the lower end 25-26 years of my “made up” bracket?

    Players the OIlers have discarded at 25-26.

    Stoll, Green, Torres, Pitkanen, Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Strome, Cogliano, Petry, Schultz, Dubnyk, and I am probably missing a few.

    I can name a ton of players the Oilers have paid at the higher end (the end) of this bracket 28-29 and older that they overpaid for declining players.or for players about to fall off the cliff.

    I think the OIlers have had the fewest number of 27-year olds on their roster over the last decade.

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