Hurry Sundown

In the winter of 1971, Boston Bruins coach Tom Johnson had a problem. His monster offensive machine from the previous season wasn’t performing at the same level. The Wayne Cashman-Phil Esposito-Ken Hodge line, who had scored 140 goals in 1970-71 (1.79 goals per game), managed only 33 goals through the first 24 games of the season (1.38 goals per game).

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, less than two coffees a month offer here. 

  • New Lowetide:  Oilers prospect pipeline could deliver below-average group in 2020-21
  • New Jonathan Willis: Several factors led to Oilers’ Zack Kassian’s inevitable hearing with NHL Player Safety
  • Jonathan Willis: Zack Kassian calls Matthew Tkachuk a ‘p****,’ says he’d go after him again despite Oilers’ loss
  • Lowetide: Projecting William Lagesson’s future with the Edmonton Oilers
  • Jonathan Willis: Kailer Yamamoto has impressed the Oilers and especially star linemate Leon Draisaitl
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: 10 bold predictions for the Edmonton Oilers in 2020
  • Jonathan Willis: Mike Smith stars in Oilers victory, but others’ struggles could prompt changes
  • Jonathan Willis: Inside a coach’s impact: How Dave Tippett gets the most out of the Oilers’ players
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Deciding what to do with Darnell Nurse, Mike Smith, Tyler Benson and Evan Bouchard
  • LowetideKen Holland’s targets for his first trade deadline with the Oilers.
  • Minnia Feng: Zamboni Ursula: What if Oilers fans could change something in the team’s past?
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland’s trade deadline options for the Oilers
  • Jonathan Willis: ‘That’s the nicest goal I’ve ever seen’: Connor McDavid’s teammates amazed by his latest effort
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers notebook: James Neal’s resurgence, Matt Benning’s injury and the Tyler Benson recall temptation
  • Lowetide: Oilers farmhands are pushing hard for NHL jobs
  • Jonathan Willis: Zack Kassian’s breakout performance presents Oilers GM Ken Holland with a familiar dilemma
  • Lowetide: Ken Holland, the Oilers amateur procurement department and the 2020 draft
  • Lowetide: Complete Oilers top 20 prospects list, winter 2019

THOSE BRUINS

The second line (Johnny Bucyk, Fred Stanfield, John McKenzie) were also off the pace. In ’70-71, the trio totaled 106 goals (1.36), and by December 1971 had 23 goals (0.959) between them.

In 1971, a team dressed 11 forwards, three full lines and then (usually) an extra center and a swingman. The swingman might be a rookie, a forward who could play defense, or a veteran who could penalty kill or fill in on a line when the team had a lead late. Montreal’s Jimmy Roberts was such a player, rambunctious rookie Bob Neely started in that spot for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and Gerry Odrowski was a defenseman who could effectively PK as a forward for the Oakland Seals. Think “catcher who can play second base and center field. Weird. But true.

Johnson’s solution to the goal-scoring problem was to run five different men on the third line. In 1970-71, the third line (Wayne Carleton-Derek Sanderson-Eddie Westfall) scored 76 goals (0.97 goals per game).

By December ’71, Johnson decided he would run Sanderson at center and then mix and match depending on the opponent. Mike Walton and Ace Bailey were the left wingers, Walton the more talented scorer. Westfall was the checking right winger, with young Reggie Leach the offensive option. After 24 games of the 1971-72 season, Sanderson (3 goals), Walton (9), Westfall (5), Bailey (4) and Leach (4) seemed to benefit from the experience. By the spring Leach was playing for the Golden Seals and by summer the Bruins won the Stanley, but in those days of offensive uncertainty, it was good to have brilliant options at the ready. There’s a lesson there.

OILERS RECALL YAMAMOTO

The recall of Kailer Yamamoto ignited the Oilers No. 2 line offensively at five on five. Here is Nuge with his most common lines so far this season. Notice the goals and expected goals.

Yamamoto’s presence on the line is new (just over an hour) but the skill that has been added is obvious. Now, you want to possession number to follow along and we’ll see, but that’s a nice start. I do wonder if KY eventually gets a chance to run with McDavid. If they switch out again, Neal-Chiasson did good work.

MCDAVID’S LINES 2019-20

McDavid and Yamamoto would seem to be a fit of considerable promise, I’m also fascinated by the 35 minutes Nygard joined the band. Interesting. Have we discussed the idea of acquiring Tyler Ennis?

THE BRUINS CONNECTION

Back to my Bruins story. Tom Johnson had a team of scorers who were struggling, and some of them (hello, Ken Hodge) wouldn’t recover all season. So he gathered up all of the possibles (Walton, Bailey, Westfall and Leach), including a couple who spent time in the minors (Bailey and Leach) in 1970-71, and auditioned them in real time, with regular shifts.

Dave Tippett has been doing that all season, except the quality of the talent is far poorer. There is no Bucyk, there is no McKenzie, Hodge or even Cashman (who was kind of like Ryan Smyth). McDavid is unique in this conversation and Draisaitl is similar in ways to Phil Esposito but it’s not an easy connection.

Kailer Yamamoto represents the ‘Reggie Leach’ in my story, and Tyler Benson is the Garnet Bailey. I think the time has come to add another element. Yamamoto is now six games in, with 2-3-5 boxcars and some success in each game. Time to recall Tyler Benson.

A MODERN JASON CHIMERA

Fans of a certain age may remember the days around the turn of the century, when it seemed Jason Chimera would break camp with the big club each fall. He finally did make the club, after playing almost the entirety of his entry deal in the AHL. Fans were mad when Chimera was sent out each fall by Craig MacTavish, but math told us it was the right thing to do.

Chimera’s teams averaged 2.81, 2.84 and 3.09 goals per game. For his AHL career, his Hamilton Bulldogs would average 2.91 goals per game. Now, it’s easy to see why Chimera was left behind at 20, and he was still a little shy the following year. By the final year of his entry deal, he was ready. Now, let’s see about Benson.

Benson’s Bakersfield Condors averaged 3.56 goals per game in 2018-19, 3.09 goals per game this year and 3.40 overall. Comparing the two men (Chimera and Benson) is impossible, the two eras are almost 20 years apart. That said, at age 21 Chimera delivered .692 points-per-game for a team that scored 2.84 goals per game. Benson, age 21, is posting .914 points-per-game for a team that is scoring 3.09 goals per game. Even considering the team scoring gap, Benson should be considered a superior offensive player, age 21.

Chimera was bullet fast, Benson is rapier smart. Chimera played 1,107 NHL games, Benson hasn’t play one. I expect that to change and right soon.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

After an enjoyable week away, we’re back this morning for the Lowdown at 10, TSN1260. The show is still percolating, but Jason Gregor will be around at 11 to talk Oilers and NFL weekend, and we’ll probably have an NFL guest at 10:20. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Join me won’t you?

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276 Responses to "Hurry Sundown"

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  1. Alex T says:

    To: Mathew Tkachuk

    As a member of the brotherhood of professional hockey players, I understand and accept that there is a certain amount of danger involved in playing the game we love. As we are moving at high speeds and using body contact to separate each other from the puck, there is the potential, every game, to get injured.

    Most days, when I go to work, I fully expect that when work is done, I will be healthy enough to go home and play with my kids and make love to my wife. And like yourself, I have the potential to make lots of money during my career. All of this means, I would very much like to avoid a career ending injury.

    However, when I play against the Calgary Flames, I know there is a greater risk that I may suffer a career ending injury. That is because there is a player on that team who doesn’t play by the code.

    We were all taught by our parents and our coaches, that when an opposing player is in a vulnerable position, and we are in position to hit them, that we should let up and make the contact more of a bump rather than a hit. You however, take the opposite approach and maximize your impact on players in vulnerable positions.

    Now, I don’t believe you are actually out to end someone’s career. I believe that you are trying to anger opponents so they take retaliatory penalties. This strategy has been very profitable for yourself and your hockey team. However, I believe that you are putting my career at risk with this strategy.

    In order to make it very clear to you, your hockey club and the NHL that the above behaviour is unacceptable, I will be making a statement at the upcoming all-star game that we will both be attending. I plan to state to the coach that I will not play on a line with you because I can’t respect you as a hockey player. The league can make me go to the all-star game, but they can’t make me play on a line with Mathew Tkachuk.

    You are a very good hockey player. Please drop the dangerous hits from your game and focus on using your skill to help keep our game the best game in the world.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter,

    Signed,

    Tomas Hertl, Leon Draisaitl, Anze Kopitar, Connor McDavid, Elias Pettersson, Max Pacioretty, Quinn Hughes, Jacob Markstrom, Darcy Kuemper, Patrick Kane, Nathan MacKinnon, Ryan O’Reilly, David Perron, Mark Scheifele, Tyler Seguin, Eric Staal, Roman Josi, Alex Pietrangelo, Jordan Binnington, Connor Hellebuyck

    • Jethro Tull says:

      This is great and expands a thought I was having. If I was a team mate of Tkachuk’s, I’d be mad. Mad because of the possibility of being traded to another team and him not having any reservations about doing it to me.

      You see, he doesn’t do it for his team or team mates. He’s not sticking up for them, or trying to win the game, no matter what Anderson thinks, or what Tkachuk has told them. He doing it because he can, and with intent to hurt someone because he is an unsavory character.

      Zack knew exactly what he was talking about after that game. he’s been there, he’s been that asshat. He’s changed, or at least tried his level best.

      Seriously, you people (ha!) who are on Kass “losing the game”, have you never been so angry and incensed, or even sad that all reason flies out the window? Or have you never cared enough for anything for that to happen?

      Still, must have been Zacks fault. Apparently you can now see blind side hits coming, and if he hadn’t dressed as a hockey player, Tkachuk wouldn’t have hit him. C’mon, he was asking for it…..

      • flyfish1168 says:

        i am so angry with the player safety coming out and saying both hits were legal. It just seems to me they have a double stand against players like Zack. This is an opportunity to live by their own safety measures that they want put into the game and now they seem to ignore it. Absolutely disgusting. But we wait to see how they handle the situation and if they are hearing all the players and formal players are speaking out against MT

    • tileguy says:

      Is this real?

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      WOW.

      Is this real?

      Because if it is, it is UNREAL.

      This is how Hockey People feel about Tkachuk.

      I am SO impressed with thier courage and conviction.

      For me, this is the difference between “spectator” commentary and reality.

      • oilsnc79 says:

        I hope like hell it is real. That wound send
        a perfect msg to both the league and the player.

    • dustrock says:

      I like this, but the league likes players like Tkachuk. They pretend they want to protect players but really they don’t.

      Look at the careers of guys like Matt Cooke, Raffi Torres, Tom Wilson.

      There is literally zero chance Tkachuk will ever stop playing like this because he is rewarded for it.

    • Offside says:

      I have no interest in starting a political debate but have we hit the point yet where defending Tkachuk is the hockey equivalent of defending Trump? “Sure he is reckless and impulsive but hey, his style won the primaries and the electoral collage. That makes him a winner”

    • godot10 says:

      Losers let Tkachuk get inside their head. Just like the posters who let HH/DSF get inside their head.

      Use your brain. Don’t whine and complain.

      Colorado didn’t let Tkachuk get inside their heads in the playoffs last year. They just went out, ignored the douchebag, and spanked the Flames. Tkachuk effectiveness as a hockey player diminishes if you don’t treat him as a bogeyman.

      Tkachuk preys on the mental weakness of his opponents.

  2. flyfish1168 says:

    Happy Birthday Connor

  3. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    WC standings using points percentage shown as points over fake Bettman .500

    Central
    STL    19
    DAL     11
    COL    10

    Pacific
    VAN    8
    CGY    8
    ARI    7

    Wildcard
    WPG    6
    EDM    6

    Out of playoffs
    VGP    6
    NSH    5
    MIN    1
    CHI    0
    SJS    -1
    ANA    -6
    LAK    -7

    VAN has tie break on CGY due to one less game played.
    EDM has tie break on VGP due to one less game played.

    Relevant games today:

    CGY (-135) at MTL (+115) – MTL finally won a game, beating OTT in OT.  CGY is the better team but its close if Rittich is starting.

  4. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    EC standings using points percentage shown as points over fake Bettman .500

    Atlantic
    BOS    19
    TBY    13
    FLA    8

    Metropolitan
    WSH    19
    PIT    16
    NYI    15

    Wildcard
    CAR    11
    TOR    8

    Out of playoffs
    PHI    7
    CBJ    6
    NYR    2
    BUF    1
    MTL    -1
    NJD    -4
    OTT    -6
    DET    -19

    FLA has tie break on TOR due to one less game played.

    Relevant wildcard games today:

    BOS (-135) at PHI (+115) – PHI is good at home (14-3-4) and bad on the road (9-13-2).  BOS is just good.

    CAR (+120) at WSH (-140) – CAR is coming on (won last 3), WSH seems in a funk (lost last 2), both teams are 5-5-0 in their last 10. I think I like CAR at this price.

  5. flyfish1168 says:

    Alex T:
    To:Mathew Tkachuk

    As a member of the brotherhood of professional hockey players, I understand and accept that there is a certain amount of danger involved in playing the game we love.As we are moving at high speeds and using body contact to separate each other from the puck, there is the potential, every game, to get injured.

    Most days, when I go to work, I fully expect that when work is done, I will be healthy enough to go home and play with my kids and make love to my wife.And like yourself, I have the potential to make lots of money during my career.All of this means, I would very much like to avoid a career ending injury.

    However, when I play against the Calgary Flames, I know there is a greater risk that I may suffer a career ending injury.That is because there is a player on that team who doesn’t play by the code.

    We were all taught by our parents and our coaches, that when an opposing player is in a vulnerable position, and we are in position to hit them, that we should let up and make the contact more of a bump rather than a hit.You however, take the opposite approach and maximize your impact on players in vulnerable positions.

    Now, I don’t believe you are actually out to end someone’s career.I believe that you are trying to anger opponents so they take retaliatory penalties.This strategy has been very profitable for yourself and your hockey team.However, I believe that you are putting my career at risk with this strategy.

    In order to make it very clear to you, your hockey club and the NHL that the above behaviour is unacceptable, I will be making a statement at the upcoming all-star game that we will both be attending.I plan to state to the coach that I will not play on a line with you because I can’t respect you as a hockey player.The league can make me go to the all-star game, but they can’t make me play on a line with Mathew Tkachuk.

    You are a very good hockey player.Please drop the dangerous hits from your game and focus on using your skill to help keep our game the best game in the world.

    Thank you for your attention to this matter,

    Signed,

    Tomas Hertl,Leon Draisaitl, Anze Kopitar, Connor McDavid, Elias Pettersson, Max Pacioretty, Quinn Hughes, Jacob Markstrom, Darcy Kuemper, Patrick Kane, Nathan MacKinnon, Ryan O’Reilly, David Perron, Mark Scheifele, Tyler Seguin, Eric Staal, Roman Josi, Alex Pietrangelo, Jordan Binnington, Connor Hellebuyck

    +++++1

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      ++++++1

      A wake up call to the NHL.

      Or more accuratley… ANOTHER wake up call to the NHL

  6. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I hope Zack and the team have prepared materials for the hearing today outlining the T-Chuck history around the league and the dangerous hits to Zack on Saturday. There seems to be recognition throughout the hockey community, e.g.,

    https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ex-nhl-players-insiders-defend-zack-kassian-and-blast-matt-tkachuks-dangerous-plays

    that the first hit was a dangerous hit to the head worthy of a major and suspension. The refs missed it. If this hit was on another player (e.g., McDavid) there would be massive outcry and there probably would have been penalty assessed to T-Chuck after the bench clearing brawl.
    The league should accept that the on-ice officials missed a call and be more vigilant in the future, but I feel Zack may be unfairly punished here. Hopefully it is a fine. At worst 1 game suspension for ragdolling an “unwilling combatant”…anything more and I am writing an email to the league (for what it is worth – HA!).

    • Jethro Tull says:

      Going off past NHL decisions, NHL will back the referees TO. THE. HILT.

      They will not retract or condemn anything that would show that a mistake was made. They are a governing body, they don’t make mistakes.

      • GordieHoweHatTrick says:

        Yes, they will not publicly admit it, but “internally” as they weigh the evidence in determining possible punishment to ZK.

    • dustrock says:

      The league is not interested in getting rid of head shots.

      When they won’t even protect their star players from cheap shots, they certainly aren’t going to be upset about the non-call on Kassian.

  7. SkatinginSand says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    Have already sent the email asking that the Department of Player Safety publicly explain how the first hit was not predatory, targeting the head. I am eagerly waiting a reply. LOL

  8. Andy Dufresne says:

    What would be so cool is if at the All Star Game ALL THE PLAYERS refused to pass to him. Life offers all of us moments in time….Brief moments to affect history….we should all embrace our moments.

  9. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    If ZK is suspended >1 game, I wonder if this tips the scales for a Benson call up before the AS break.
    If not, as outlined above by LT, the call-up should be very soon to get some assessment of where Benson is at BEFORE the trade deadline as his status should be used to inform subsequent trades this year and in the summer.

  10. Andy Dufresne says:

    How many Oilers have been concused by head shots that were not penalized

    Leon Draisaitl
    Zack Kassian
    Matt Benning

    Brandon Davidson?

    Others?

  11. dustrock says:

    Ha ha this is a great story about the long-time Flames dentist.

    Pretty gruesome. Those hockey players are apparently pretty tough, who knew?

    https://theathletic.com/1474260/2020/01/13/its-basically-trauma-how-nhl-team-dentists-deal-with-bloody-messes/

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      The Flames had two dentists. One offical, one unofficial.

      Dave Semnko removed more Flames teeth than any other hockey affiliated practitioner.

  12. OriginalPouzar says:

    Do we have any concerns that the Nuge/Kailer combo is outperforming their possession and expect goal numbers? Does this signal likely regression in the goal share?

    /

    • Andy Dufresne says:

      Yes….Yes it does.

      Should we be concerned? Not so much concerned as aware.

      Things are about to ramp up as the race for the playoffs starts for real.

      Can Kailer maintain his current pace?

      I hope so….but dont bank on it.

  13. OriginalPouzar says:

    Maybe Yamamoto is the right winger for McDavid in Kassian’s absence via suspension?

  14. Reja says:

    Offside:
    I have no interest in starting a political debate but have we hit the point yet where defending Tkachuk is the hockey equivalent of defending Trump? “Sure he is reckless and impulsive but hey, his style won the primaries and the electoral collage. That makes him a winner”

    You should worry about your own illustrious leader. Not!

  15. Andy Dufresne says:

    As far as the Battle of Alberta goes Tkachuk is the new Neal Sheehy

    As far as the NHL goes Tkachuk is the new Claude Lemieux / Sean Avery.

  16. maudite says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thanks for these woodguy. I look forward everyday to perusing these rundowns. I find it makes the scoreboard watching much more of a daily moment of intrigue. Brilliantly laid out.

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kass’ hearing is at 12:30 mountain (credit: John Shannon).

  18. jtblack says:

    maudite:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thanks for these woodguy.I look forward everyday to perusing these rundowns.I find it makes the scoreboard watching much more of a daily moment of intrigue.Brilliantly laid out.

    +1

  19. JimmyV1965 says:

    I agree with LTs comments on the radio today about Tkachuck; this is likely his last stop Texaco playing this style of game. The incident has shone a bright light on his behaviour and there will be some internal NHL pressure to take him to task.

    Will be fascinating to see what happens to Kassian. There’s been so many supportive comments from former players and NHL analysts; IMO the NHL will be severely criticized if it goes more than 2 games.

    Some of the comments about Tkachuk are a little over the top IMO. He’s a dirty player, but a product of NHL officiating. If he was simply sent a message that this type of behaviour won’t be tolerated, and if he was punished for it severely, he wouldn’t do it.

    I personally would be thrilled if we drafted this guy rather than JP.

    • Nit64 says:

      If it’s the same NHL Kass will get 3 for the infraction, 3 more for After Hours comments and another 3 for asking them do something about the perp at the hearing.

  20. JimmyV1965 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    How many Oilers have been concused by head shots that were not penalized

    Leon Draisaitl
    Zack Kassian
    Matt Benning

    Brandon Davidson?

    Others?

    Evander Kane has injured Benning twice. He did not receive a penalty for either infraction.

  21. godot10 says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    As far as the Battle of Alberta goes Tkachuk is the new Neal Sheehy

    As far as the NHL goes Tkachuk is the new Claude Lemieux / Sean Avery.

    Claude Lemieux was a playoff warrior. Matt Tkachuk, so far, not so much. Tkachuk is a one trick pony, and as long as you don’t get sucked into his trick, there is nothing much speical about him. See Colorado against the Flames in the playoffs last year.

  22. godot10 says:

    When Tkachuk his targeting Kassian coming from his proper position to below the red line, he is leaving a big hole in the Flames defensive structure.

    As soon as Tkachuk targets Kassian, the Oilers should rotate to get a player into the hole for Kassian to pass to for an HDSC.

    Tkachuk is like a blitzing linebacker. The defense against it is to throw a pass to the spot the linebacker abandoned.

    Have a code word that the Oiler players yell when Tkachuk goes.

    • Darth Tu says:

      I motion for this word to be “MacLunkey”.

    • Jethro Tull says:

      The same Kassian that is prone on the floor with his helmet knocked off? That would be pass of the season.

      • godot10 says:

        You yell the code word as soon as Tkachuk leaves his defensive position, just like quarterbacks and wide receivers use voice or hand signals (or a sight adjustment).

        Instead of making the play to the net, Kassian makes a pass to the Oiler who is filling the hole left by Tkachuk in the defense.

        Kassian might still have to take the hit like a quarterback, but the puck would be in the back of the net or the goaltender would have to make a point blank save from a HD area.

    • meanashell11 says:

      Turtle!

    • Fuge Udvar says:

      This is just ridiculous. There is no way to run a proper audible in hockey. They don’t call audibles during the play after the ball is snapped. There is just no way you could call an audible in hockey and have everyone hear it and react to it in time.

      I mean you could call someone sneaking into slot yelling an audible if you ear squint real hard

  23. dustrock says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Yeah, then we could unfriend him on Facebook too. It’s about making a statement!

    ha ha ha ha

  24. Darth Tu says:

    Andy Dufresne:
    As far as the Battle of Alberta goes Tkachuk is the new Neal Sheehy

    As far as the NHL goes Tkachuk is the new Claude Lemieux / Sean Avery.

    Can we just have Khaira (here’s hoping he’s over whatever ails him by the next BoA), Kassian, Larsson, heck every player, pound Tkachuk every time he steps over the boards in the next game? No one engage in a fight (it’s not like Tkachuk will engage anyways) just hit him as hard and as cleanly as possible every single time.

    I kind of miss Maroon right about now, he’d be amazing for this.

  25. Woogie63 says:

    When I see Kassian’s head whiplashing on my 65″ 4K TV and replay it several time to confirm what I have seen.

    Then I read the NHL player safety comment on the play.

    It reminds me of the early days of the NFL when they sweep head hits under the carpet, and did not deal with Jack Tatum’s of the that era.

  26. Jethro Tull says:

    JimmyV1965: I agree with LTs comments on the radio today about Tkachuck; this is likely his last stop Texaco playing this style of game. The incident has shone a bright light on his behaviour and there will be some internal NHL pressure to take him to task

    I disagree. If the league was interested in stopping it, they would have done on the numerous other times the Tkachuks of the world have done this. They have not, and in fact have gone so far to say these were legal hits without even giving the political answers such as “we are reviewing Matthew’s part and also assessing whether his hits were provocative or illegal.”

    There’s no standards like double standards. They’re twice as good. But I’m just a loser fixated on the current topic of the team, so what do I know?

  27. Woogie63 says:

    Benson-McDavid-Neal
    Nuge-Driasaitl-Yamamoto
    Nygard-Shenean-Archibald
    Kharia-Haas-Chaisson

    Klefblom-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    Russell-Jones

    Koskainen
    Smith

    for 2 games please

  28. Darth Tu says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    Doesn’t Looch traditionally avoid fighting against his former teams?

  29. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: Have a code word that the Oiler players yell when Tkachuk goes.

    #WhatsYourSafeWord?

  30. Munny says:

    Yamamoto and Jones are still learning on the job. Not to mention Haas and Nygard and PRusty.

    The roster as constructed just earned wins on the road to BOS, TOR, and MTL.

    Benson is premature at this point.

    Yama needs a least another ten games before introducing another rookie forward.

    YMMV.

  31. knighttown says:

    The key word here is “predatory”. You simple can’t look at the contact the same way you would a traditional open ice hit or hit along the wall. For MT to imply he put himself on the trolly tracks…that’s just not the case. On the second one especially, Zack and Gio(?) are engaged in a battle and Tkachuk comes flying into the middle of it. There’s zero chance Zack could have protected himself there.

    Take a step back from the technicalities of the hits and listen to the ex-players talk about the feel of those hits.

  32. OriginalPouzar says:

    Smith in the starters net at practice today – not surprise given the play of each tender recently.

    No Nuge at practice – Gagner in his spot.

    Hope that is just maintenance for Ryan but will wait to hear from coach.

    Given Gagner is in his spot, it means to me that Gagner is not scheduled to play tomorrow (assuming Nuge is back in) and we are likely to see Khaira back in (or Russell) – likely the “right” move.

  33. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Eric Francis:

    Tkachuk today on Kassian:

    “(Not fighting) was probably the right thing to do there. If it was a different type of player out there, maybe. But it wasn’t the right time to do it. I have a feeling half the people in the league wouldn’t go w that guy. I just think I’d rather be out there than in the box w him and I’m sure if u ask my teammates they’d rather me out there.”

    Re: suspension possibility: “It’s not my call. I’m happy I don’t have to make those decisions. Those guys have a really tough job”

  34. Jethro Tull says:

    Still remember Max Domi tuning Kesler up. Happy days.

  35. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – There are parts of Hockey that I find just bush. For sure they will be out of the game shortly. Traditionalists might not like it, but any contact to the head, anytime, should be banned (as they have in NFL fro the QB). I can’t speak for all parents of kids today, but certainly in my peer group (some of us are also coaches), we don’t sit there with them, and cheer the violence. Its just the opposite. Times are changing for sure in Hockey, and it will be a better product

    – On a separate note, compared to primitive analytics that are available for evaluating D, baseball has come up with a really cool measure,: Outs Above Average. It does what I have said for years is the holy grail for Hockey: measure actual players position and reacting and decision making, rather simply a plus or minus for different occurrences.

    – “OAA takes into account not only the positioning of the player, but also the speed of the runner, the velocity of the batted ball and the distance between the player and the ball.”

    https://www.mlb.com/news/statcast-introduces-outs-above-average-for-infield-defense

    – Of course Hockey is far more dynamic and fluid than baseball, because the puck moves a lot more than a “hit” in baseball. But the decision process, positioning, and being able to account for the degree of difficulty helps out a lot.

    – Defending in Hockey is “well he should have had that one”, or “that D made a poor choice”, then layered with outcomes derived from measure which are often not in the control of the defenders

  36. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Woogie63:
    Benson-McDavid-Neal
    Nuge-Driasaitl-Yamamoto
    Nygard-Shenean-Archibald
    Kharia-Haas-Chaisson

    Klefblom-Larsson
    Nurse-Bear
    Russell-Jones

    Koskainen
    Smith

    for 2 games please

    – I’m more like:

    Benson-McDavid-Neal
    Nygard-Driasaitl-Yamamoto
    Jar-Nuge-Archibald
    Haas-Sheenan-Chaisson

  37. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Darth Tu:
    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    Doesn’t Looch traditionally avoid fighting against his former teams?

    You’re right;) I forgot. Let’s hope he keeps up with that tradition.

  38. OriginalPouzar says:

    Archie taking some line rushes with McDavid, as per Gregor, who suggests its in anticipation of a Kassian suspension.

    • Reja says:

      Harpers Hair: Nonsense.

      Linesman, Tikkanen and Marchment never answered the bell.

      Linesman was called the Rat for a reason.

      What happened you guaranteed the Simpletons wouldn’t beat your new favourite team.

  39. J-Bo says:

    Is it in poor taste to compare a player like Tkachuk or Torres or Marchand etc… to Don Cherry and the other coaches who have been fired and are taking heat for their injurious comments? What if the players who were injured by their coaches words stood up for themselves in an angry way? Would they have been lauded with praise or suspended? It is a strange world we live in where Don Cherry’s comment gets him fired, Zak will be suspended for standing up for himself when other authority wouldn’t and Tkachuk gets to play the hero for his team (since the storyline is that Zak’s retaliation cost the game).

  40. OriginalPouzar says:

    AndyDufresne:
    How many Oilers have been concused by head shots that were not penalized

    Leon Draisaitl
    Zack Kassian
    Matt Benning

    Brandon Davidson?

    Others?

    I’m not sure that the refs had authority to punish Nurse’s punch to Drai…….

  41. oilersfan says:

    I thought any contact to the head is already against the rules?

    Didn’t that come in with all the concussion lawsuits?

    Watch last week Macdiarmid from LA gets a two game suspension from a headshot to Provorov… if anything the first hit on Kassian was worse because he was already engaged in the puck battle with Gio….Provorov has his head down too , not sure why that makes a difference as Macdiarmin got suspended . Can anyone explain the difference between that shot and the one Kassian took?!? Thanks

  42. Darth Tu says:

    Munny:
    Yamamoto and Jones are still learning on the job.Not to mention Haas and Nygard and PRusty.

    The roster as constructed just earned wins on the road to BOS, TOR, and MTL.

    Benson is premature at this point.

    Yama needs a least another ten games before introducing another rookie forward.

    YMMV.

    I’d agree. I’ve been wanting Benson up for a look for a while, but for now I’d hold off until after the All Star break. The next few games are going to be key to the season, with Kassian out I’m not sure I’d throw another rookie into the lineup (even a skilled one).

    I worry Khaira still isn’t ready to go, so I’d rather see someone come in with more experience. On that note, any news on Jurco? He might have the hands to spot in and play 3rd line for a few games rather than relying on Gagner to fill the hole. Jurco was injured though wasn’t he? Granlund was meh at best and probably needs a bit more Bakersfield time before being called back up.

  43. OriginalPouzar says:

    DarthTu: Can we just have Khaira (here’s hoping he’s over whatever ails him by the next BoA), Kassian, Larsson, heck every player, pound Tkachuk every time he steps over the boards in the next game? No one engage in a fight (it’s not like Tkachuk will engage anyways) just hit him as hard and as cleanly as possible every single time.

    I kind of miss Maroon right about now, he’d be amazing for this.

    I would hope they do this generally in any event – to Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm, Gio, Anderson, Brodie, etc.

    I would think that, at part of their regular game plan, nightly, they want to finish their checks – its not that easy to get good hard bangs in and, of course, it takes a toll on the aggressor as well, over time.

  44. Woogie63 says:

    Earlier this year Lucic received a 2 game suspension for fighting a CBJ player who did not want to engage. On the play he was assessed a 2 minute minor for roughing.

    I hope the league address why Kassian received a

    4 minute minor and a 10 Minute miscount for the same action Lucic got 2 minutes?

  45. Dicky94 says:

    Jethro Tull,

    I bet Domi is one of Tkachuks targets tonight. He has a short fuse too.

  46. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – And what I mean by out of the game, it this whole old-school notion of a “clean hit”. Going at someone at top speed, unobstructed, when the other player can’t see what’s about to come, or is in a defenseless position: that’s just bush in this world IMO. Its the whole “lining someone up” taking a bunch of strides at speed: that’s what has to go away from hockey. And it will. It’s just gross

    – And props to Tkachuk: he got off those legal hits, He wound Kassian up, and helped win the game: winding up players who are hot heads to get advantages

    – Kassian saying that first hit was a “good hit” is all you need to know about the culture in Hockey, with:lining up players then smashing them violently with abandon: just gross IMO

  47. ashley says:

    I loathe fighting in hockey yet I really enjoyed the fight between Kassian and Tkachuk on Saturday. It was magnificent. Not just because I’m a fan of the Oilers, but because it is a guy getting some payback for dishonouring the game. Too strong? Suit yourself, but there is a code and he doesn’t live by it.

    We first saw it with Brandon Davidson, and it continues to happen ever since. He’s reckless and needs a wake up call. He is no longer just a young learning the right way to play.

    I was at the game sitting 10 rows up from the benches, and the best part was watching him skate back to his bench with none of his teammates really acknowledging him or making eye contact. Usually there is much fanfare for a teammate in a fight, even if they lose the fight. However, they know the code.

    That’s a broken dressing room.

    I have said in previous posts that I think that the Flames have a Stanley roster. I don’t think that anymore. They have a dressing room problem caused by a guy that doesn’t play by the code. I can see by his own teammates body language that they don’t like him and were embarrassed. That’s a problem. Players have to be willing to go to the wall for each other to have success.

    If the Flames want to have a chance during this window with outstanding value contracts on their roster, they are going to have to trade him. Treliving is a savvy GM and I suspect we will see Tkachuk on another roster in the next year.

    We may have lost the battle on Saturday, but we are going to win the war against a team with that guy on the roster.

  48. BONE207 says:

    It’s your birthday CONNOR. Hopefully the Nhl will gift you your right winger minus a few thousand dollars. It’s the right thing to do.

    What a mess in here! Who’s drinking all the liquor?

  49. Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Still remember Max Domi tuning Kesler up. Happy days.

    This is part of why I’d be all over Domi if he’s actually available. Someone with the exact skillset to demolish Tkachuk at his own game: physical, skilled and willing to engage in the mud.

  50. dunterpunter says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I think the biggest take-away from the actions that night is that real NHL players are voicing their opinions on the matter.

    To me, this does matter. Selanne has replied to Upshalls comments at this point as well. I love the involvement.

    At what point does a player or NHL look at what occurred, and go, fuck, somethings not right here.

  51. OriginalPouzar says:

    Confirmed maintenance day for Nuge.

  52. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Mattheson:

    Draisaitl when asked what he would do if he and McDavid had to play with Tkachuk in 3 on 3 at all-star game: “I would get off the ice”

  53. godot10 says:

    Jethro Tull: #WhatsYourSafeWord?

    #BitcoinIsNotMySafeWord

  54. SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

    Leafs lose Reilly for minimum 8 weeks with a broken foot

    Muzzin has been on the shelf since Dec. 28 with a foot injury (seen in a walking boot this past week)

    All of a sudden your anchor pair is Barrie and Ceci…

    Andersen yanked twice in the last week but I’d be hard pressed to hang them on his play.

    Leaf’s break is next week along with our Oilers so that’s good from a Muzzin perspective and to give Andersen some rest but after that its a game every two days (average) for the rest of the year.

    This will be a big big big test for the Dubas forward heavy model

    Sandin is going to get his reps by fire over the next while.

  55. Crazy Pedestrian says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Mattheson:

    Draisaitl when asked what he would do if he and McDavid had to play with Tkachuk in 3 on 3 at all-star game: “I would get off the ice”

    Wow. Now THAT is saying something. Wonder how that’s going to work out come all-star game day. Have to wonder if any other players are thinking the same thing.
    In other news, it seems that Ovechkin and Fleury are choosing not to play in the all-star game. (Ovechkin was fan-voted as captain too)

    • Jethro Tull says:

      Yeah, some awkward conversations, for sure: “Hi, I’m Matt, we’ll be playing together tomorrow. Then against you next week, where I’ll try to end your career. Nothing personal, though. As long as we get the penalty and the game winning goal, all’s well that ends well. And if you don’t like it, maybe don’t play against me?”

  56. OriginalPouzar says:

    Morgan Riley out two months with a broken foot.

    Cue the Larsson for Kapanen talk (even though Larsson is right) and the Nurse for XXXX talk.

    I do wonder if there is a deal to be made though.

  57. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Maybe Yamamoto is the right winger for McDavid in Kassian’s absence via suspension?

    In my opinion you need some size to balance out the line. If Draisaitl was on the other wing it could work.

  58. Andy Dufresne says:

    SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!: Leafs lose Reilly for minimum 8 weeks with a broken foot

    Did he break his ankle trying to pivot when McDavid deeked him out of jock strap???

    • SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo! says:

      Not quite, poor guy slipped off the ladder trying to retrieve his jockstrap from the rafters after said play

  59. Sunnyboy says:

    Really hope the leaves crater and Torts can get CBJ to at least a wildcard spot.

  60. flyfish1168 says:

    MT choose to turn his back to Zack because he is a coward

    • godot10 says:

      Zack forgot the game was for first place in the division. Decided his pride was more important.

      • oil-in-the-blood says:

        Well if someone was looking for me all night trying to take my head off and the refs BLEW it initially I would of done the same thing, I love what Kass did. There was still lots of time left for the Oil to tie the game, nope didnt happen. MT deserved more than Kassian gave him. The league is a joke with its punishment and the way it calls the games infractions with status in mind. BIG JOKE. Good job Kassian. Say what you what, I dont go in for unnecessary violence but the refs blew it.

        godot10:
        Zack forgot the game was for first place in the division.Decided his pride was more important.

        godot10,

  61. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Morgan Riley out two weeks with a broken foot.

    Cue the Larsson for Kapanen talk (even though Larsson is right) and the Nurse for XXXX talk.

    I do wonder if there is a deal to be made though.

    think Reilly is out min 8 weeks … Big Loss for Leafs

  62. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    maudite:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thanks for these woodguy.I look forward everyday to perusing these rundowns.I find it makes the scoreboard watching much more of a daily moment of intrigue.Brilliantly laid out.

    Thank you very much.

    That is *exactly* my intent, so I’m pleased that’s the effect.

  63. OriginalPouzar says:

    Darth Tu: I’d agree. I’ve been wanting Benson up for a look for a while, but for now I’d hold off until after the All Star break.The next few games are going to be key to the season, with Kassian out I’m not sure I’d throw another rookie into the lineup (even a skilled one).

    I worry Khaira still isn’t ready to go, so I’d rather see someone come in with more experience. On that note, any news on Jurco? He might have the hands to spot in and play 3rd line for a few games rather than relying on Gagner to fill the hole. Jurco was injured though wasn’t he? Granlund was meh at best and probably needs a bit more Bakersfield time before being called back up.

    He had hip surgery – he’s not an option this year.

  64. ashley says:

    maudite:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thanks for these woodguy.I look forward everyday to perusing these rundowns.I find it makes the scoreboard watching much more of a daily moment of intrigue.Brilliantly laid out.

    Agreed. After LT’s post, if I’m short on time I go straight to these WG standings posts. One of the best parts of this weblog.

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie63:
    Earlier this year Lucic received a 2 game suspension for fighting a CBJ player who did not want to engage.On the play he was assessed a 2 minute minor for roughing.

    I hope the league address why Kassian received a

    4 minute minor and a 10 Minute miscount for the same action Lucic got 2 minutes?

    Are you being honest with this comment?

    Kassian threw like 10 (apx) punches at Tkachuk’s face – what Lucic did was nowhere near as “violent”.

    Kass is lucky he didn’t get 2, 5 and a game.

    I wish he would have right now as the fact he was allowed to come back might increase the chances of suspension (or length thereof by a game).

    • GordieHoweHatTrick says:

      True, but Luc’s response was also not nearly as warranted. Didn’t the CBJ player snow the goalie or something (ha – I jest); Luc wasn’t headhunted 2x…

  66. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar: Are you being honest with this comment?

    Kassian threw like 10 (apx) punches at Tkachuk’s face – what Lucic did was nowhere near as “violent”.

    Kass is lucky he didn’t get 2 broken vertebrae and concussion.

    I wish he would have right now as the fact he was allowed to come back might increase the chances of suspension (or length thereof by a game).

    FIFY

  67. Side says:

    Was the stat during the game about Matt and Brady Tkachuk leading the league in penalty minutes drawn correct? Did I hear that correctly?

    If so, that truly says all that needs to be said about how the league feels about calling penalties.

    You have players like McDavid getting hacked, slashed, tackled every other shift and doesn’t draw a penalty.

    But the guy doing all of the hacking, slashing, tackling doesn’t get penalized. Instead, they draw a penalty because someone finally retaliated against them.

    “Putting the whistle away” I can see the argument for during playoff games, but during the regular season? Penalties should be called all of the time, imo.

    • godot10 says:

      Too many players in the league have Tkachuk Derangement Syndrome.

      The Tkachuk’s take advantage of the immaturity and lack of impulse control, i.e. the weak minds, of many players in the NHL.

      • Side says:

        I think the bigger issue is that the refs have a Tkachuk Hard On Syndrome, where they have a different set of criteria for the Tkachuk brothers when it comes to officiating games. Which is a much bigger problem that is more easily remedied.

    • VanIsleOil says:

      I believe Sportsnet said Matt drew 19 penalties and Brady is #1 with 26 penalties drawn. These guys better keep their heads up, someone will eventually do something to set them straight.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack,

    Ya, I meant to say “two months” – sorry (and thanks).

  69. OriginalPouzar says:

    Darth Tu,

    Well, its not like the organization mentioned it – there is all but zero news out of Bakersfield on injuries and its only when Stauff, Gregor or one of The Athletic crew are talking with Woody (or Gretzky) that maybe they can get some legit injury info.

    This story was broken via Instagram post by Jurco himself.

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    tileguy,

    It means a pretentious way to say that my opinion means more than yours “fixed it for you”.

  71. Darth Tu says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Yeah – I try my best to stay up to date with Bakersfield, but it feels like there’s a bit of a news vacuum sometimes. I’ve been sitting here watching the Condors starting to round into form thinking: “once Jurco comes back they’re going to really go on a run, it’ll be like last season again”. Shame he’s out, I like what he brings to the table. He might be a tweener, but he’s a skilled one.

  72. HenryDrix says:

    So should the birthday boy and LD boycott the All Star game? I say YES! Send a message to the league. Can’t imagine our two Stars being on the ice with that puke MT. Talk about awkward!

  73. Jethro Tull says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    tileguy,

    It means a pretentious way to say that my opinion means more than yours “fixed it for you”.

    Seriously, you’re that insecure you had to do the quote as well as the reply?

    I wasn’t being pretentious, and until now, didn’t think my opinion was worth more than yours.

    I was trying to highlight the mitigating circumstances behind ZK’s actions.

    Funny how you are exactly what you accuse me of being. Maybe I was you in another life.

  74. godot10 says:

    HenryDrix:
    So should the birthday boy and LD boycott the All Star game?I say YES!Send a message to the league.Can’t imagine our two Stars being on the ice with that puke MT.Talk about awkward!

    They can do that. But then they are required to sit out the first game back after the All-Star Break which is against Calgary.

    Win more, complain less. That is a better strategy.

    • Side says:

      I imagine your tune would be very different if McDavid was injured from a “clean” hit to the head by Tkachuk with no penalty on the play.

      “Win more, complain less. Be less weak willed”

      says Godot to McDavid.

      • godot10 says:

        What has Kassian done about Giordano?

        All he has done is let Tkachuk get into his head and make him do stupid things.

        • Side says:

          You mean Giordano who was texting McDavid throughout the summer, apologizing for the hit and staying in touch with him to see how his rehab was going?

          I don’t think it would be appropriate.

          “make him do stupid things”

          Well, depending on who you talk to, it was not a stupid thing which is why there is so much discussion on this topic.

          Actual discussion, and not platitudes like”win more. complain less. be less weak willed”

  75. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    oilersfan:
    I thought any contact to the head is already against the rules?

    Didn’t that come in with all the concussion lawsuits?

    Watch last week Macdiarmid from LA gets a two game suspension from a headshot to Provorov… if anything the first hit on Kassian was worse because he was already engaged in the puck battle with Gio….Provorov has his head down too , not sure why that makes a difference as Macdiarmin got suspended . Can anyone explain the difference between that shot and the one Kassian took?!? Thanks

    I reviewed the NHL DOPS clip and rationale for the suspension to MacDermid:

    https://www.nhl.com/news/kurtis-macdermid-of-los-angeles-suspended-two-games-for-illegal-check-to-the-head/c-313433920?tid=277549076

    And I agree with you that the general conditions for the NHL’s definition of “illegal hit to the head” are met in both situations (MacDermid and T-Chucks), although rather different plays.
    It is a very good example of double standards.

  76. duct tape and foil says:

    For the folks who continue to trash Kass, I’d like to see your solution to this?

    The league has totally abrogated their responsibility for player protection with their treatment of T-Chucks. Like they care much anyway, but it’s totally out the window with T-Chucks. They are letting him act in a predatory manner that injures players and Kass is no where near the first guy.

    Targeting Calgary players who have done nothing wrong is just as bad a what T-Chucks is doing. Sure somebody could break Johnny wrist with a slash or send Gio head first into the boards. It’s not right when T-Chucks does it and it’s not right if we respond like that either.

    So the league is doing nothing. The officials are doing nothing. Kass stepped up and had to take care of things himself and it was worth the 2 points in the standings. Yeah it was totally worth it from a team perspective. No doubt at all. The Oilers as a team is fully behind Kass, while the Flames as a team are totally embarrassed by T-Chuck and unwillingness to stand up for his actions. Nobody is going to the wall for that guy. I agree with Ashley. I think he’s traded by the summer because the guy is toxic. He intentionally tried to injure a guy and then turtles like a coward when called on the play. Then he goes on the say he’s never fighting anyone after the game. Yeah that’s a team builder for sure.

    All-star game will be interesting as this guy is going to be persona non-grata the whole event.

    • oil-in-the-blood says:

      Well said, totally agree. It never would of went that far if the first head shot was penalized like it should of been. MT was looking for every opportunity to hit Kassian to hurt him not get the puck or take him off of it to get a scoring chance, it was to hurt him, it was obvious. Kassian lost it, cant blame him, the refs werent doing their job, now the league isnt.

  77. OilClog says:

    Teemu is calling out Paros out on Twitter for Kassian, the list keeps piling up from around the league with what the general view of this situation is.. Defending Tkachuk or dumping on Kassian, pretty ugly side to be on when history looks back on it imo.

  78. godot10 says:

    duct tape and foil:
    For the folks who continue to trash Kass, I’d like to see your solution to this?

    The league has totally abrogated their responsibility for player protection with their treatment of T-Chucks. Like they care much anyway, but it’s totally out the window with T-Chucks. They are letting him act in a predatory manner that injures players and Kass is no where near the first guy.

    Targeting Calgary players who have done nothing wrong is just as bad a what T-Chucks is doing. Sure somebody could break Johnny wrist with a slash or send Gio head first into the boards. It’s not right when T-Chucks does it and it’s not right if we respond like that either.

    So the league is doing nothing. The officials are doing nothing. Kass stepped up and had to take care of things himself and it was worth the 2 points in the standings. Yeah it was totally worth it from a team perspective with no doubt at all. The Oilers team is fully behind Kass, while the Flames are totally embarrassed by T-Chuck and unwillingness to stand up for himself and his actions. Nobody is going to the wall for that guy. I agree with Ashley. I think he’s tradedby the summer because the guy is toxic. He intentionally tried to injure a guy and then turtles like a coward when called on the play. Then he goes on the say he’s never fighting anyone after the game. Yeah that’s a team builder for sure.

    All-staer game will be interesting as this guy is going to be persona non-grata during the whole event.

    If the players have an issue with the Tkachuks, have the NHLPA do something about it. The NHLPA has a multidecade long record of defending the goons and the agitators rather than the skilled players. Change that.

    Quit whining about the Tkachuk’s. Play hard against their teammates. Win. Rather than what Kassian did, which is lose.

    i.e. Do something about it in the NHLPA, and/or shut the eff up and play.

  79. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Are you being honest with this comment?

    Kassian threw like 10 (apx) punches at Tkachuk’s face – what Lucic did was nowhere near as “violent”.

    Kass is lucky he didn’t get 2, 5 and a game.

    I wish he would have right now as the fact he was allowed to come back might increase the chances of suspension (or length thereof by a game).

    Kole Sherwood did not return to that game, Tkachuk played the next shift, so there is that…

  80. JimmyV1965 says:

    duct tape and foil:
    For the folks who continue to trash Kass, I’d like to see your solution to this?

    The league has totally abrogated their responsibility for player protection with their treatment of T-Chucks. Like they care much anyway, but it’s totally out the window with T-Chucks. They are letting him act in a predatory manner that injures players and Kass is no where near the first guy.

    Targeting Calgary players who have done nothing wrong is just as bad a what T-Chucks is doing. Sure somebody could break Johnny wrist with a slash or send Gio head first into the boards. It’s not right when T-Chucks does it and it’s not right if we respond like that either.

    So the league is doing nothing. The officials are doing nothing. Kass stepped up and had to take care of things himself and it was worth the 2 points in the standings. Yeah it was totally worth it from a team perspective. No doubt at all. The Oilers as a team is fully behind Kass, while the Flames as a team are totally embarrassed by T-Chuck and unwillingness to stand up for his actions. Nobody is going to the wall for that guy. I agree with Ashley. I think he’s tradedby the summer because the guy is toxic. He intentionally tried to injure a guy and then turtles like a coward when called on the play. Then he goes on the say he’s never fighting anyone after the game. Yeah that’s a team builder for sure.

    All-star game will be interesting as this guy is going to be persona non-grata the whole event.

    I have no issue with what Kassian did and I think it’s unfair to criticize him because that’s the way he is hard wired.

    But if you really want to get back at Tkachuk, you have to play dead whenever he gives you a marginal hit. Just pretend your injured. That’s when he will get called for a penalty. Better yet, cheap shot him all night and then play dead.

    No one will beat Tkachuk by a playing if fair and clean.

  81. OilClog says:

    godot10: If the players have an issue with the Tkachuks, have the NHLPA do something about it.The NHLPA has a multidecade long record of defending the goons and the agitators rather than the skilled players. Change that.

    Quit whining about the Tkachuk’s.Play hard against their teammates.Win.Rather than what Kassian did, which is lose.

    i.e. Do something about it in the NHLPA, and/or shut the eff up and play.

    The Oilers lost, why.. because for 60 mins they were out played. Kassian didn’t lose the Oilers the game, your logic and reasons are wrong. BTW how many millions have you made in your career? I imagine when comparing bank accounts to Kassian, the only one walking away with the title “loser” is your out to lunch jackass self.

  82. OriginalPouzar says:

    VanIsleOil:
    I believe Sportsnet said Matt drew 19 penalties and Brady is #1 with 26 penalties drawn. These guys better keep their heads up, someone will eventually do something to set them straight.

    Brady Tkachuk, Marchand and Eichel have all drawn 28.

    Matt Tkachuk is 13th with 20 drawn, one less than McDavid.
    https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=all&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=n&team=ALL&pos=S&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    Darth Tu:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Yeah – I try my best to stay up to date with Bakersfield, but it feels like there’s a bit of a news vacuum sometimes.I’ve been sitting here watching the Condors starting to round into form thinking: “once Jurco comes back they’re going to really go on a run, it’ll be like last season again”.Shame he’s out, I like what he brings to the table.He might be a tweener, but he’s a skilled one.

    Its very frustrating the lack of transparency with the Condors – I mean, why do they need to be so secretive about Samorukov and his face bruises or Starrett and it being a groin?

    Its too bad about Jurco – for sure, he’s an elite AHL player so that hurts the Condors.

    I also think he didn’t get the best opportunity or longest leash with the big club – from the first day of camp, he had to battle to get ice with some actual NHL skill players and he wasn’t given much rope once he was up there – he’s very skilled and, while inconsistent, thought he was generally a good fit in the top 6.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    HenryDrix:
    So should the birthday boy and LD boycott the All Star game?I say YES!Send a message to the league.Can’t imagine our two Stars being on the ice with that puke MT.Talk about awkward!

    I’d prefer that McDavid wasn’t suspended for the game against the flames on January 29th.

  85. flyfish1168 says:

    Refs get call wrong all the time. So why look the other way when those two t-chunks are running around doing there $hit. Border line dirty play can also get a borderline call. That is how refs needs to control them. Their team will then deal with them. The problem starts when the don’t get any borderline calls against them. Both calls saturday could have been called for charging.

  86. flyfish1168 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’d prefer that McDavid wasn’t suspended for the game against the flames on January 29th.

    So attend but refuse to play with on same line

  87. OilClog says:

    Bob Stauffer tried to fight big George! There must be tape of this on ice incident somewhere.

  88. Harpers Hair says:

    You know, I’m amused by the reaction to MT.

    He’s is in all of your heads.

    Over the years, the Oilers have employed, often at the same time, players who were just as “dirty”.

    The list includes. Messier, Anderson, Tikkanen, McLelland, Linseman and especially, Bryan Marchment who never saw a low bridge hit he didn’t like.

    All these players, and others, stepped over the Marquis of Queenberry lines repeatedly and often.

    Yeah, the game has changed in regard to head hits but, given the refs and DOPS saw no issue with the hits, these were obviously borderline remembering the refs see them in real time not on slo mo replay.

    The obvious response from Kassian, who is considerably larger and heavier than Tkachuk, would have been to hit back harder rather than lose his mind and give Tkachuk exactly what he hoped to accomplish.

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m not sure if we’ve posted this little nugget from LeBrun:

    And if Pageau does end up on the trade market, he’ll be a hot commodity. I believe Edmonton, if the Oilers stay in the race, have Pageau on their target list. I think Philadelphia would get engaged depending on where the Nolan Patrick situation stands. Maybe Boston, given that he’s a right-hand shot?

    https://theathletic.com/1530105/2020/01/13/lebrun-kings-open-to-dealing-martinez-senators-staying-patient-with-pageau-and-more-trade-rumblings/?source=twittered

    ——————–

    I don’t imagine the first round pick, Bouchard, Broberg or even Samorukov would be in play.

    I do think that a Tyler Benson may be in play mind you.

  90. jvd says:

    Rielly out 8 weeks with a fractured foot. Was this from McDavid? /s

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-morgan-rielly-eight-weeks-fractured-foot/

  91. tileguy says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Harpers Hair:
    You know, I’m amused by the reaction to MT.

    He’s is in all of your heads.

    Over the years, the Oilers have employed, often at the same time, players who were just as “dirty”.

    The list includes. Messier, Anderson, Tikkanen, McLelland, Linseman and especially, Bryan Marchment who never saw a low bridge hit he didn’t like.

    All these players, and others, stepped over the Marquis ofQueenberry lines repeatedly and often.

    Yeah, the game has changed in regard to head hits but, given the refs and DOPS saw no issue with the hits, these were obviously borderline remembering the refs see them in real time not on slo mo replay.

    The obvious response from Kassian, who is considerably larger and heavier than Tkachuk, would have been to hit back harder rather than lose his mind and give Tkachuk exactly what he hoped to accomplish.

    Andrew, you are exaggerating, just like your hero Trump. According tomhocketDB Kassian is 6’3 and 211 lbs, turtlechuck is 6’2 and 202 lbs. you find that considerably larger and heavier?

  92. Harpers Hair says:

    tileguy:
    Harpers Hair,

    Andrew, you are exaggerating, just like your hero Trump. According tomhocketDB Kassian is 6’3 and 211 lbs, turtlechuck is 6’2 and 202 lbs. you find that considerably larger and heavier?

    Yes I do.

  93. Scungilli Slushy says:

    ashley:
    I loathe fighting in hockey yet I really enjoyed the fight between Kassian and Tkachuk on Saturday.It was magnificent.Not just because I’m a fan of the Oilers, but because it is a guy getting some payback for dishonouring the game.Too strong?Suit yourself,but there is a code and he doesn’t live by it.

    We first saw it with Brandon Davidson, and it continues to happen ever since.He’s reckless and needs a wake up call.He is no longer just a young learning the right way to play.

    I was at the game sitting 10 rows up from the benches, and the best part was watching him skate back to his bench with none of his teammates really acknowledging him or making eye contact. Usually there is much fanfare for a teammate in a fight, even if they lose the fight.However, they know the code.

    That’s a broken dressing room.

    I have said in previous posts that I think that the Flames have a Stanley roster.I don’t think that anymore.They have a dressing room problem caused by a guy that doesn’t play by the code.I can see by his own teammates body language that they don’t like him and were embarrassed.That’s a problem.Players have to be willing to go to the wall for each other to have success.

    If the Flames want to have a chance during this window with outstanding value contracts on their roster, they are going to have to trade him.Treliving is a savvy GM and I suspect we will see Tkachuk on another roster in the next year.

    We may have lost the battle on Saturday, but we are going to win the war against a team with that guy on the roster.

    I’m with you on this. For me the issue is the league being preferential and uneven. It’s time to call the existing rules reg season and playoffs. Good team, weak team, good player not good player, guy you don’t know and Cory who buys the refs beers after the games and introduces them to the ‘fans’ he isn’t interested in.

    The world is changing and there is too much money flying around the league now to have no enforced conduct, which the ‘code’was before the instigator rule, and the opt out for fights.

    Because of the state of things, I don’t think ‘respecting’ a player’s refusal to back up their controversial behvior isn’t always the best thing for the game, or the abused player, and jumping the guy is a reasonable option.

    Timing could have been better, but we are seeing a wide response that the league will have to take note of, and perhaps the embarrassment will move the league to the right place it won’t willingly go.

    Tkachuk won’t change, but perhaps the league will force him to modify by threat of being out of the league, or he’ll get sick of getting jumped. And looking like cowardly tool. I imagine he sports a pretty high self image. Humiliation might be more than a sociopath can cope with.

  94. VanIsleOil says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Zack is considerably larger and heavier??????????

    Matt Tkachuk weighs 209 lbs and is 6’2″
    Zack Kassian weighs 213lbs and is 6’3″

    Not sure what your version of considerably larger and heavier is?????
    Pretty much the same size…..

  95. Bank Shot says:

    Hopefully Kassian only gets suspended for 2 games so he can take runs at Tkachuk all game long next match up.

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Two games for Kass – he’ll be back for the BOA on Jan 29.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    My guess is we’ll see Archie up at 1RW – he and McDavid actually have pretty darn good numbers together in a small sample.

    Wouldn’t mind Yamamoto up there with Benson as 2LW – problem is Nuge is also left side (although Drai has played plenty of RW).

  98. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I’m not sure if we’ve posted this little nugget from LeBrun:

    And if Pageau does end up on the trade market, he’ll be a hot commodity. I believe Edmonton, if the Oilers stay in the race, have Pageau on their target list. I think Philadelphia would get engaged depending on where the Nolan Patrick situation stands. Maybe Boston, given that he’s a right-hand shot?

    https://theathletic.com/1530105/2020/01/13/lebrun-kings-open-to-dealing-martinez-senators-staying-patient-with-pageau-and-more-trade-rumblings/?source=twittered

    ——————–

    I don’t imagine the first round pick, Bouchard, Broberg or even Samorukov would be in play.

    I do think that a Tyler Benson may be in play mind you.

    I think Pageau should be the last player we try to acquire. The trade market and free agent market are going to be wildly over priced. Let’s get someone like AA, whose market price is down.

  99. OilClog says:

    1″ and 10lbs is a weekend at grandma’s kitchen. followed by a week with cialis and your physical activity partner. They’re both light heavyweights, there’s no difference other then one is spineless. Bout 10lbs and a inch in height.

  100. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Harpers Hair: Yes I do.

    It’s not the size of the dog in the fight…..

    That dog bites kids and cowers at any real challenge. He absolutely got what he wanted in the moment, but I think outside of the moment he screwed himself.

    Thank you for your comments. They provide those here a real experience of playing on the same ice as a Tkachuk. For the young ones Matthew, the older ones Matthew and Keith.

  101. leadfarmer says:

    So I guess they decided that Kassian went completely overboard
    But TkaCooke really deserved a beating
    So two games only

  102. leadfarmer says:

    Please be respectful and use the DSF button for DSF comments or go to his website

  103. leadfarmer says:

    Flames getting outshot 12-1 by Habs in first

  104. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Woogie63: Kole Sherwood did not return to that game, Tkachuk played the next shift, so there is that…

    Kassian didn’t land one of those punches where it would do any damage. Didn’t hurt him, it embarrassed him.

    Probably gave his knuckles more pain than the 4” thick skull they landed on.

  105. who says:

    godot10: If the players have an issue with the Tkachuks, have the NHLPA do something about it.The NHLPA has a multidecade long record of defending the goons and the agitators rather than the skilled players. Change that.

    Quit whining about the Tkachuk’s.Play hard against their teammates.Win.Rather than what Kassian did, which is lose.

    i.e. Do something about it in the NHLPA, and/or shut the eff up and play.

    You are SOOOO wrong on this.
    But you ARE persistent.

  106. ArmchairGM says:

    JimmyV1965: I think Pageau should be the last player we try to acquire. The trade market and free agent market are going to be wildly over priced. Let’s get someone like AA, whose market price is down.

    Not a fan of AA, but Kase should be a target and even Galchenyuk. Not that I like Galchenyuk much, but Pittsburgh is desperate to dump the contract and will let him go for a song. They might even take back a warm body like Manning to make the cap work.

  107. Scungilli Slushy says:

    tileguy,

    You know he is. It is no coincidence his NHL sons play the same game.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    Habs currently up 1-0 on the flames and with a 14-2 advantage on the shot clock.

  109. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Bank Shot:
    Hopefully Kassian only gets suspended for 2 games so he can take runs at Tkachuk all game long next match up.

    Agreed. As punishment, Zack should be forced to study tape for hours on end of exactly how MT does what he does. The test is next match up. Don’t fail the test, Zack.

  110. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OilClog,

    Bob was pretty ripped back in the day. Definite reach disadvantage.

  111. Harpers Hair says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan,

    Both players will be on a very short leash.

    Don’t expect any fireworks.

  112. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan,

    For sure.

    The best response would be to butter MT up in pressers, and then ignore him all game.

    And win.

    But that is on the coaches. It works.

    I think Tipp is that kind of coach. Kass will find his moment, if he wants it, but I doubt he does want it beyond the next few games. He’ll want to run MT in the next 2 but I don’t think he’ll carry an agenda after.

    Of course over whatever time in the league Kassian has left if he has a chance for a big hit on MT he’s going to take it.

  113. duct tape and foil says:

    That is exactly what you do and the upcoming all-star game is the perfect venue. Pubic shaming, no handshakes, refuse to play on his line. Socio-paths do not respond to hand-slaps or appeals to morality. They have none and T-Chucks teammates are pretty embarrassed by his act. I suspect we will see one very meek Flames team in EDM for the rematch as nobody is standing up for Keith’s little socio-path.

    Scungilli Slushy: foil

  114. Harpers Hair says:

    The official response of the NHL on the Kassian suspension (video)

    https://t.co/GNOVYmYAkh?amp=1

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    We need Khaira back in for the PK tomorrow night.

    Recall the GWG against Calgary was a PP goal – does that goal not happen if Khaira is in the lineup? Tough so say. I’ve expressed my main concern with Khaira being sat being the PK as he’s been very good but I didn’t realize quite how good via the numbers:

    —————–
    That’s not to say Khaira will be easy to replace. Although it’s impossible to isolate his personal achievements from the system within which he plays, in terms of on-ice results he ranks as one of the league’s best penalty killers, both this season and over the longer term.

    This year he has been particularly good. Khaira has the ninth-best goals-against rate among NHL forwards with at least 30 minutes played in four-on-five situations. Among forwards with at least an hour, he ranks third. Over the past three seasons, he ranks 14th among forwards with at least two hours played, despite Edmonton’s team-wide struggle to kill penalties under Todd McLellan.

    https://theathletic.com/1530801/2020/01/13/oilers-notebook-jujhar-khairas-future-caleb-jones-adaptation-to-nhl-speed/

    • stephen sheps says:

      I’m happy JJ will be back in the lineup, particularly for his PK ability but the goal against on the PK wasn’t on the forwards. Said it the other night and I’ll say it again – #4 was the goat on that particular sequence, choosing to snow angel rather than take out the net front screen was a very curious (by which I mean) poor call. It’s also classic Russell “defending”.

  116. Glovjuice says:

    I am totally stunned that the ‘first’ attack on Kassian when he is attempting a wrap around and is completely vulnerable and utterly disengaged from where MT is approaching from is allowed in any sport. Mind bending how brutal that play is.

  117. who says:

    Harpers Hair:
    The official response of the NHL on the Kassian suspension (video)

    https://t.co/GNOVYmYAkh?amp=1

    And that’s why no one has any respect for the DOPS.
    What a pathetic attempt to justify the suspension. My favorite spin was “Tkachuk is attemting to skate up ice to join the offensive rush when he is grabbed from behind” or “he had no chance to defend himself”.
    If anyone thinks MT didn’t know what was coming I call BULLSHIT. He wasn’t, “joining the rush”. He was running away.
    George Parros knows this. It’s pretty clear the lawyers are making the calls at DOPS.

  118. OriginalPouzar says:

    If they were going to call up a replacement for Kass for two game (which I don’t think they will), I wonder, as they need a RW, if Josh Currie might be the player that makes a bit more sense than Benson – he’s a tough SOB (more Kassian like in that regard), a goal scorer (as opposed to a play maker) and he actually had quite solid scoring rates in limited minutes in the NHL Last year.

    I’d be OK with him getting two games at right wing – maybe move Kailer up to 1RW and put Currie at 2RW – can’t imagine anything like that happening – not with the “veteran Chiasson” on the roster.

  119. OilClog says:

    Apparently you can take 5 strides and not bother concerning yourself about making a hockey play for the puck anymore. If someone ends up with a broken neck on the 29th or 1st hopefully the league and everyone involved lose everything.

  120. flyfish1168 says:

    OilClog:
    1″ and 10lbs is a weekend at grandma’s kitchen. followed by a week with cialis and your physical activity partner. They’re both light heavyweights, there’s no difference other then one is spineless. Bout 10lbs and a inch in height.

    That 1 inch is actually around the waist if i go to grandma kitchen

  121. godot10 says:

    tileguy:
    I wonder if his dad is proud of him?

    His dad trashed a 5-star hotel room at the Nagano Olympics, allegedly.

    Sociopaths are often intelligent and of course extremely manipulative.

    They prey on the weak-minded.

  122. OriginalPouzar says:

    Flames remain down 1-0 after the 2nd – shots are 32-16 Habs.

    I am NOT fully confident this score holds.

  123. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Decidedly Skeptical Fan,

    Both players will be on a very short leash.

    Don’t expect any fireworks.

    Nothing dirty, just a few signature MT clean hits along the boards by Zack. By the third time, maybe MT figures it out.

  124. OilClog says:

    Tkachuk wasn’t attempting to skate anywhere, McDavid pinned him against the boards, then Kassian pushed McDavid out of the way and began throwing punches. There’s was no attempt for Tkachuk to join play, he was literally pinned against the boards til he had a fist pinned against his face, he had no free will or choice. They realize there’s video of this don’t they? Trying to sell Tkachuk had any legitimate thoughts or joining the rush is full of shit, the whole reason he was in the position of being pimped slapped is because he wasn’t making hockey plays that regard giving a shit about playing the puck lol. Fucking hypocrites

  125. Harpers Hair says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: Nothing dirty, just a few signature MT clean hits along the boards by Zack. By the third time, maybe MT figures it out.

    Exactly what he should have done in the first place.

  126. OriginalPouzar says:

    flyfish1168: So attend but refuse to play with on same line

    That wasn’t the proposal I was responding to.

    That is what Drai intimated he would do…. we’ll see though.

  127. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Harpers Hair: Exactly what he should have done in the first place.

    Totally agree.

  128. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair:
    You know, I’m amused by the reaction to MT.

    He’s is in all of your heads.

    Over the years, the Oilers have employed, often at the same time, players who were just as “dirty”.

    The list includes. Messier, Anderson, Tikkanen, McLelland, Linseman and especially, Bryan Marchment who never saw a low bridge hit he didn’t like.

    All these players, and others, stepped over the Marquis ofQueenberry lines repeatedly and often.

    Yeah, the game has changed in regard to head hits but, given the refs and DOPS saw no issue with the hits, these were obviously borderline remembering the refs see them in real time not on slo mo replay.

    The obvious response from Kassian, who is considerably larger and heavier than Tkachuk, would have been to hit back harder rather than lose his mind and give Tkachuk exactly what he hoped to accomplish.

    Yes, the Oilers did deploy dirty players but the league has changed – a game from 1983 would lead to about a dozen suspensions, nightly.

    The game has even changed from 5-10 years ago as indicated by Hartnell – a winger coming down off the wing to blow up the opposition player coming around the net while engaged is not longer “part of the game”, for example.

    With that said, I think the second hit was legal, dirty, but legal. The first hit was a charge, likely only a 2 minute charging penalty but for contact to the head – it was the neck, not the head so its ambiguous.

    Either way, whether it was Tkachuk, Marchand or Mitch Marner that Kassian did what he did to isn’t really hear or there with regard to Kass’ suspension which was deserved.

    • Harpers Hair says:

      Pretty much how I see it.

      I expect both Kassian and Tkachuk are now on the “watch list”.

      There won’t be much leeway going forward.

  129. norm_klassen says:

    Maybe With kass suspended we see this
    Drai – McDavid- yam
    Neal-nuge-chiason

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: I think Pageau should be the last player we try to acquire. The trade market and free agent market are going to be wildly over priced. Let’s get someone like AA, whose market price is down.

    I don’t disagree with the premise. With respect to AA himself, I’ve read that Yzerman will not give him away cheaply.

    I’ve proposed a Puljujarvi and Lagesson type prospect but I’m not sure that gets it done.

    Before Godot replies, I do not have an issue qualifying him a $3M for a one-year risk.

    One caveat: More digging would need to be done in to his horrendous goal differential and how much that is a function of the team and how much he is personally contributing to it.

  131. OriginalPouzar says:

    Flames get an early PP, completely ineffective – PP2 included two non-plays by Lucic, one leading to a failed zone entry and one leading to a Habs clear.

  132. Yakupov me says:

    Was there ever an alternate angle of that first hit shown? I still can’t wrap my mind around that not being a headshot. The McDavid hit that got him 2 games was way less dangerous / intentional.

  133. OilClog says:

    Kassian should start taking illegal head hunting runs at players that involve no attempt at playing the puck because the refs and the league won’t protect him against such hits?

    Would much prefer to see Kassian grab him, rag doll him, punch him in the face 10 times, get suspended, do it all over again every single time. Lowering yourself to blindsided targeting head hits is disgraceful.

    Head hunting hits like MT’s have been banished and ridiculed because of the absolutely insane amount of long term disaster for a God damn human beings life they can cost. Marc Savard is someone that should be googled https://youtu.be/0Z1vJrIAg-0

    This is where all of this is going, someone is going to lose more then their career that money won’t solve.

    Kassian should just spear Tkachuk in the throat then kick him in the face if it’s just a matter of going back to shit like that.

  134. OriginalPouzar says:

    Boom, 2-0 half way through the 2nd – big goal as the flames were starting to come on a bit – Habs were in defend mode, they were defending well but still defending.

  135. OriginalPouzar says:

    Big save Price on a Lindholm one time off a cross-ice pass.

  136. OriginalPouzar says:

    flames pull their goalie with 4 minutes left.

  137. OriginalPouzar says:

    Love seeing Lucic out there on the 6 on 5.

  138. OriginalPouzar says:

    Kovalchuk out there defending the 5 on 6 – looks good and uses a good stick to get a clear.

  139. OriginalPouzar says:

    flames shout out by the Habs.

  140. stephen sheps says:

    Excellent take from ex-player and ref Paul Stewart on the MT situation

    H/T to Woodguy’s twitter feed for bringing this to my attention.

    https://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=103704

    • Harpers Hair says:

      An incredibly weak arugement.

      • stephen sheps says:

        how do you figure it’s a weak argument? I’m not entirely on board with his first point, (ethics are always a grey area after all…) but I think the misapplication of the aggressor rule argument is rather strong and convincing. He looks at the evidence, at past precedents w.r.t to the aggressor rule, the rationale for its creation and interprets the results based on his knowledge of the rule and experience as a referee. Doesn’t sound like a weak argument to me.

        Perhaps it’s an argument you don’t agree with, which I get, but that doesn’t make it an inherently weak one. Show your work, old friend. I know you’re better than that.

    • geowal says:

      Well written and reasoned. Thanks Stephen.

  141. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Decidedly Skeptical Fan,

    Both players will be on a very short leash.

    Don’t expect any fireworks.

    The league will undoubtably issue direct warnings – they play just a few games later though which will likely have less build-up and focus on it….

  142. John Chambers says:

    Way to go Habs!

    Calgary Sucks!

    • Harpers Hair says:

      Unfortunately, the Oilers suck more.

      The Canadiens just did VCR a huge favour.

      They now have two chances to take over first place in the Pacific.

  143. OriginalPouzar says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Decidedly Skeptical Fan,

    For sure.

    The best response would be to butter MT up in pressers, and then ignore him all game.

    And win.

    But that is on the coaches. It works.

    I think Tipp is that kind of coach. Kass will find his moment, if he wants it, but I doubt he does want it beyond the next few games. He’ll want to run MT in the next 2 but I don’t think he’ll carry an agenda after.

    Of course over whatever time in the league Kassian has left if he has a chance for a big hit on MT he’s going to take it.

    The best response is to go out and win the game – of course, play a physical game, finish all checks, etc. but win the game.

    Of course, that would have been the best response this past Saturday as well.

  144. OriginalPouzar says:

    duct tape and foil:
    That is exactly what you do and the upcoming all-star game is the perfect venue. Pubic shaming, no handshakes, refuse to play on his line. Socio-paths do not respond to hand-slaps or appeals to morality. They have none and T-Chucks teammates are pretty embarrassed by his act. I suspect we will see one very meek Flames team in EDM for the rematch as nobody is standing up for Keith’s little socio-path.

    I’m thinking his teammates are quite happy that, for a second time, he was able to elicit a response from Kassian that directly helped his team win a game in a material way.

  145. Dicky94 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I noticed his teammates not jumping in real hard to break it up. If it had been Giordano getting rag dolled I’m sure there would have been a bigger scrum.

  146. OriginalPouzar says:

    norm_klassen:
    Maybe With kass suspended we see this
    Drai – McDavid- yam
    Neal-nuge-chiason

    Potentially but, given how many times I’ve heard Tippett say that Drai likes playing with Kailer, and the two 5 on 5 goals last game where Kailer had the primary assist, I don’t see it then changing that 2nd line. I think coach is a fan of the more balanced attack right now and the lineup above, well, that 2nd line isn’t set up to succeed at evens given how the season has gone.

    I think we’ll see Archie up there to start the game – the load on McDavid’s back gets heavier.

  147. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dicky94:
    OriginalPouzar,

    I noticedhis teammates not jumping in real hard to break it up. If it had been Giordano getting rag dolledI’m sure there would have been a bigger scrum.

    That woudl be “3rd man in”, a penalty and a game misconduct.

    Lindholm was there and tried a bit but there is only so much that can be done – it was the lineseman’s job.

  148. who says:

    Harpers Hair:
    An incredibly weak arugement.

    Actually, Stewart pretty much hits the nail on the head here. And every ex NHL player we’ve heard from agrees with him.
    But let’s hear your side of the argument. I’m really curious to hear you defend Tkachuk on this one.

  149. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: The best response is to go out and win the game – of course, play a physical game, finish all checks, etc. but win the game.

    Of course, that would have been the best response this past Saturday as well.

    Every time you post on this issue it makes you look more like a lawyer and less like someone who’s ever been in that situation in a competitive hockey game.

  150. norm_klassen says:

    I guess we will find out tommorow but I think McDavid deserves a upgrade in wingers as he seems to be doing all the scoring on his own. Neal cant seem to keep up

  151. Harpers Hair says:

    who: Actually,Stewart pretty much hits the nail on the head here. And every ex NHL player we’ve heard from agrees with him.
    But let’s hear your side of the argument. I’m really curious to hear you defend Tkachuk on this one.

    The first incident was a charging penalty and should have been a two minute minor.

    The second incident was a clean hit.

    Kassians reaction was way over the top and his suspension is well deserved.

  152. Bank Shot says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Fuck you are boring.
    Try not begging to be the center of attention for once.

  153. who says:

    Harpers Hair: The first incident was a charging penalty and should have been a two minute minor.

    The second incident was a clean hit.

    Kassians reaction was way over the top and his suspension is well deserved.

    First incident was charging, with a hit to the head.
    Second incident was also charging. He actually came from further away, and took more strides, on the second hit.
    Go back and watch the video.
    Both times he took a run at a defenseless player who was physically engaged with another Flame. That is the definition of a cheap shot.
    I can live with all this. But to pat yourself on the back for turtling after doing this, it just shows a complete lack of respect.
    I’d be embarrassed to show my face around another NHL player if I was him.

  154. Bank Shot says:

    Great to see Calgary shutout.

    The fact that the league only suspended Kassian for 2 games is a tacit admission that they were okay with Tkachuk eating some punches to the face.

    Kassian is back for the next game against the Flames. Hopefully this galvanizes the squad to bring a huge effort and they wipe the Flames out in both of their next contests.

    Oilers need to win these division matches if they are to grab a playoff spot.

  155. meanashell11 says:

    Harpers Hair,

    First off Tchuck and Kass are about the same size. Second, those old Oilers would answer the bell if challenged to a fight. So no, not the same thing at all.

  156. Harpers Hair says:

    who: First incident was charging, with a hit to the head.
    Second incident was also charging. He actually came from further away, and took more strides, on the second hit.
    Go back and watch the video.
    Both times he took a run at a defenseless player who was physically engaged with another Flame. That is the definition of a cheap shot.
    I can live with all this. But to pat yourself on the back for turtling after doing this, it just shows a complete lack of respect.
    I’d be embarrassed to show my face around another NHL player if I was him.

    Ive watched the videos repeatedly.

    Yes, both were “cheap shots”.

    Unfortunately “cheap shots, are not a penalty.

    In fact, Kassian has been issuing “cheap shots” for years.

    See Sam Gagner for reference.

    Your defence of a repeat offender is odious.

  157. Harpers Hair says:

    meanashell11:
    Harpers Hair,

    First off Tchuck and Kass are about the same size. Second, those old Oilers would answer the bell if challenged to a fight.So no, not the same thing at all.

    Nonsense.

    Linesman, Tikkanen and Marchment never answered the bell.

    Linesman was called the Rat for a reason.

  158. northerndancer says:

    Tippet stated twice – after the game and today – that things would have been ok if they had killed the penalties to Kassian. That is how to build a team. He not only doesn’t throw Kassian under the bus he twice implies that Kassian’s actions were OK.

    I suspect that one thing that would bother current and former players, on any team, is MK insinuating that it was beneath him to fight with or defend himself from someone he considers a lesser player, a “fourth liner” In a team sport that sort of arrogance and entitlement will not go unnoticed by the brotherhood and sisterhood. On any team.

  159. who says:

    Harpers Hair: Ive watched the videos repeatedly.

    Yes, both were “cheap shots”.

    Unfortunately “cheap shots, are not a penalty.

    In fact, Kassian has been issuing “cheap shots” for years.

    See Sam Gagner for reference.

    Your defence of a repeat offender is odious.

    So we agree they were both cheap shots.
    And I will agree that Kassian has thrown his share of cheap shots over the years.
    I will say that he has turned himself into a hockey player in the last couple of years, so good on him. I was pretty critical of him his first few years with the Oilers. I didn’t like all the stupid penalties and attempts to agitate. Most of that is out of his game now.
    The difference in the 2 players is that Kassian will stand up for himself. Tkachuk will turtle.
    The big picture issue here is this:
    By penalizing and suspending Kassian, and letting Tkachuk walk, the NHL has just encouraged Tkachuk like behavior.
    So let’s encourage guys to take runs at other players, that you have conceded were cheap shots, then let’s encourage them to turtle to draw the penalty. I can’t believe how many non hockey players were applauding Tkacuk for suckering in Kassian.
    Is this the kind of NHL you want to watch?

    • Harpers Hair says:

      Of course, none of this matters.

      If want a Snowflake League neither Kassian of Tkachuk will be in it.

  160. Alex T says:

    Andy Dufresne,

    You’re welcome. It was me trying to get MT out of my head. It was hard to keep name calling and cheap shots out of the piece. But I put my (imaginary) Lowetide bobble head doll by my keyboard and every time I started to type in a cheap shot, I pictured LT saying “keep it classy”.

    I gotta admit I was pretty happy to hear Leon voice similar sentiments today about not wanting to play with Monsieur Turtle. Oops. I think I just lowered myself to name calling.

  161. who says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Of course, none of this matters.

    Well that’s quite a response. Lol.
    Very convincing arguement.

  162. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Of course, none of this matters.

    What happened you guaranteed the Simpletons would lose to your new favourite team whose leader pissed on the hockey gods porch. Karma’s a bitch for theTkachuk posse.

  163. who says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Of course, none of this matters.

    If want a Snowflake League neither Kassian of Tkachuk will be in it.

    Did I say I wanted a snowflake league?

  164. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: Every time you post on this issue it makes you look more like a lawyer and less like someone who’s ever been in that situation in a competitive hockey game.

    Or a fan of a team that wants them to win huge implication hockey games.

    I think his teammates would have been happy if he would have kept it under control and found a way to get bangs in on Tkachuk or Lindholm or Gaudrea or waited until a better time.

    We know his coach would have and I’m certain he knows about playing in a competitive hockey game.

  165. OriginalPouzar says:

    norm_klassen:
    I guess we will find out tommorow but I think McDavid deserves a upgrade in wingers as he seems to be doing all the scoring on his own. Neal cant seem to keep up

    Judging by practice today, his updrage in winger will be Josh Archibald.

    Do you suggest breaking up the current 2nd line?

  166. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: Nonsense.

    Linesman, Tikkanen and Marchment never answered the bell.

    Linesman was called the Rat for a reason.

    None of these players were head hunters. Tkachuk was trying to take out Kassian I still can’t believe he was able to clock Kassian three times.

  167. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bank Shot:
    Harpers Hair,

    Fuck you are boring.
    Try not begging to be the center of attention for once.

    Having a contrary opinion is boring?

    He’s not wrong and his position is entirely defendable.

    I agree with everything he said except I think the first hit was more than just a charge given where contact was made (and targeted), the neck.

    • CallighenMan says:

      He is wrong. The players he listed didn’t turtle and only Marchment was really dirty by the definition of the day I never liked the way he hit when hip checking. Tikk just would shove and wouldn’t shut the hell up, he wasn’t really dirty. Odjick, Edler some times, and Burrows Kesler and Glass. … don’t get me started DSF … the list if truly dirty Dy’s is VERY long!

  168. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: Or a fan of a team that wants them to win huge implication hockey games.

    I think his teammates would have been happy if he would have kept it under control and found a way to get bangs in on Tkachuk or Lindholm or Gaudrea or waited until a better time.

    We know his coach would have and I’m certain he knows about playing in a competitive hockey game.

    You have no idea what his teammates wanted because you’ve never been in that situation.
    And his coach really wanted his team to kill the penalty. He made a point of stressing that today.

  169. Harpers Hair says:

    Reja: None of these players were head hunters. Tkachuk was trying to take out Kassian I still can’t believe he was able to clock Kassian three times.

    That’s an absolute load of shit.

    ‘They were all headhunters.

  170. tapper says:

    Any chance we get an member ignore feature on here?

    There’s a Fox News approach to and level of bad faith argumentation on here lately, makes for a lot of noise.

    As the kids say now, “It ruins the vibe.” (Aside: any concern that ruining the community is the end goal?)

  171. Boiled-in-Oil says:

    Reja,

    Interesting thing is Bryan Marchment had 85 fights in his career.

  172. Harpers Hair says:

    tapper:
    Any chance we get an member ignore feature on here?

    There’s a Fox News approach to and level of bad faith argumentation on here lately, makes for a lot of noise.

    As the kids say now, “It ruins the vibe.” (Aside: any concern that ruining the community is the end goal?)

    Do you need a safe space?

  173. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Nonsense.

    Linesman, Tikkanen and Marchment never answered the bell.

    Linesman was called the Rat for a reason.

    Marchment did have almost 100 NHL fights, 15 as an Oiler.

  174. OriginalPouzar says:

    northerndancer:
    Tippet stated twice – after the game and today – that things would have been ok if they had killed the penalties to Kassian.That is how to build a team.He not only doesn’t throw Kassian under the bus he twice implies that Kassian’s actions were OK.

    I suspect that one thing that would bother current and former players, on any team, is MK insinuating that it was beneath him to fight with or defend himself from someone he considers a lesser player, a “fourth liner”In a team sport that sort of arrogance and entitlement will not go unnoticed by the brotherhood and sisterhood.On any team.

    Tip said directly and expressly that he wish he would have “taken a number”.

    On the second point – there is TONS of trash talk out there about players being 4th liners and in the minors recently, etc. Its VERY common.

  175. Reja says:

    Harpers Hair: That’s an absolute load of shit.

    ‘They were all headhunters.

    Linesman was more a hook to the nuts hence the rat. Marchment was a knee lover. Tikk was kinda like Linseman but in a gibberish language no one understood but they weren’t headhunters Tkachuk fuked up with his after game response somebody’s going to square him up good.

  176. Bank Shot says:

    OriginalPouzar: Having a contrary opinion is boring?

    He’s not wrong and his position is entirely defendable.

    I agree with everything he said except I think the first hit was more than just a charge given where contact was made (and targeted), the neck.

    Yeah its boring.

    You can count on old HH taking the anti-Oiler opinion every time.

    All his opinions are moderately defendable, but you always know he will take the side against the Oilers. What’s the point in even responding to someone like that?

    It’s debating a caricature. Why give a clown the attention he seeks?

  177. JimmyV1965 says:

    godot10: His dad trashed a 5-star hotel room at the Nagano Olympics, allegedly.

    Sociopaths are often intelligent and of course extremely manipulative.

    They prey on the weak-minded.

    Let me get this straight. Kassian is a loser and Tkachuk is a sociopath. Good to know. I guess this is why they tell players to stay away from social media. How can someone who makes so many good comments also be an ass hat? It’s mystifying really.

  178. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    tapper:
    Harpers Hair,

    QED

    So that’s a “yes” ?

  179. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: You have no idea what his teammates wanted because you’ve never been in that situation.
    And his coach really wanted his team to kill the penalty. He made a point of stressing that today.

    It seems there are many speculating on what his teammates think based off of not being in that situation.

    I know the coach wasn’t fine with it because he said so right after the game.

  180. Bank Shot says:

    The key to the Oilers season now will be finding another player to click with McDavid.

    The Oilers have the second line of Drai-RNH-Moto rolling pretty well.

    They need someone to fill the role on the top line with McDavid and Kassian. I don’t think Neal fits. They have tried mostly everyone on the team so far.

    Does Benson work? I would be reluctant to try a rookie there. I think the key to getting that line zooming better is adding a two-way winger that can do the dirty work in the Oilers end.

    Not sure who that guy is….. Maybe Craig Smith out of Nashville?

  181. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t disagree with the premise.With respect to AA himself, I’ve read that Yzerman will not give him away cheaply.

    I’ve proposed a Puljujarvi and Lagesson type prospect but I’m not sure that gets it done.

    Before Godot replies, I do not have an issue qualifying him a $3M for a one-year risk.

    One caveat: More digging would need to be done in to his horrendous goal differential and how much that is a function of the team and how much he is personally contributing to it.

    I’m sure I read somewhere that the ask is a prospect and 2nd rounder. I guess it’s all speculation. I’m perfectly willing to give up a first rounder, but if has to be for someone with term. Is an RFA considered someone with term?

  182. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: It seems there are many speculating on what his teammates think based off of not being in that situation.

    I know the coach wasn’t fine with it because he said so right after the game.

    Let me explain it to you.
    If there was no response to the Tkacuk hits, every Calgary player, that was so inclined, would consider it open season on Kassian and every other Oiler.
    Kassian responded.
    I know this doesn’t fit in your perfect hockey world but that’s just the way it is.
    But then again, I think you’re one of those Xbox players that Scotty Upshall was talking about.
    Loved that quote.

  183. JimmyV1965 says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Unfortunately, the Oilers suck more.

    The Canadiens just did VCR a huge favour.

    They now have two chances to take over first place in the Pacific.

    I suspect unfortunately is a poor choice of words on your part.

  184. oilersfan says:

    Bank Shot,

    Tyler Ennis?

  185. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: I’m sure I read somewhere that the ask is a prospect and 2nd rounder.I guess it’s all speculation. I’m perfectly willing to give up a first rounder, but if has to be for someone with term. Is an RFA considered someone with term?

    I would consider an RFA and a young player with term, akin – the premise is the player is not a short term acquisition that can leave for nothing.

  186. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Tip said directly and expressly that he wish he would have “taken a number”.

    On the second point – there is TONS of trash talk out there about players being 4th liners and in the minors recently, etc.Its VERY common.

    I would say his response was lip service after the Bertuzzi incident coaches have to be extra careful what they say. I was surprised when he even said take a number for later.

  187. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: Let me explain it to you.
    If there was no response to the Tkacuk hits, every Calgary player, that was so inclined, would consider it open season on Kassian and every other Oiler.
    Kassian responded.
    I know this doesn’t fit in your perfect hockey world but that’s just the way it is.
    But then again,I think you’re one of those Xbox players that Scotty Upshall was talking about.
    Loved that quote.

    Please save the pretentious opening – nothing you said needed to be “explained to me”.

    All Kassian’s response has “shown” is that an emotional response can be elicited from him giving his team a major disadvantage. Matthew Tkachuk has elicited that response twice – both times turning games in his team’s favor (previously a game his team was getting dominated in and ended up winning most likely because of his ability to elicit said response from Kassian),

    Kassian did nothing to deter “open season” and may have shown how valuable “open season” on him is – it can win teams hockey games.

    Haven’t played a video game in 15 years but don’t let anything stop you from being so sure you know everything about who I am and how I am.

    • who says:

      Seems like it does need explaining cause you’re just not getting it.
      It actually sounds like you are condoning Tkacuks play, cause he did draw the penalty that led to the game winning goal. So it must have been a good play to cheap shot Kassian several times. Right?
      And I think most posters on here have a pretty good idea who you are.
      Because you seem to feel the need to post your entire life story on this blog.

  188. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: I would say his response was lip service after the Bertuzzi incident coaches have to be extra careful what they say. I was surprised when he even said take a number for later.

    I don’t think that’s the case – Tippett wanted to win the hockey game and the play hurt his team’s ability to do that.

  189. Bank Shot says:

    oilersfan,

    Ennis could score well enough. He has among the fewest defensive zone starts on the Senators though.

    You may disagree, but I think that McDavid would be better served by a guy that can really carry the load defensively and also score some.

    The Oilers have guys that are committed defensively, but unfortunately none of them have the type of scoring ability that lets them hang on the top line.

    Is Toffoli strong on D?

  190. godot10 says:

    JimmyV1965: I’m sure I read somewhere that the ask is a prospect and 2nd rounder.I guess it’s all speculation. I’m perfectly willing to give up a first rounder, but if has to be for someone with term. Is an RFA considered someone with term?

    No, not if you have to qualify him at over $3 million dollars to retain his rights.

    Athanasiou is Justin Schultz. Fair value in a trade for someone who has had an awful season and is broken on his current team and needs to be qualified at an absurd number is a 3Rd draft pick.

  191. drglen says:

    Alex T,

    outstanding!

    It was mentioned and you see it in the videos, how the flames players are not jumping to MT’s defense either.

  192. drglen says:

    everytime I see that replay and zacks horizontal head being bounced like a punching bag, I wince. Dear lord you could have broken his neck.

    Like that Ref who piped in today ( “stewart”?) Just because a hit was technically legal does not mean it was not reckless and dangerous and not warranting suspension.

  193. drglen says:

    Yes Bring up Benson. Look we’re gonna have Gagner with McDavid probably, .. surely nows the time.

  194. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t think that’s the case – Tippett wanted to win the hockey game and the play hurt his team’s ability to do that.

    Tkachuk got the better of Kass lined him up 3 times and drew a big 4 minute PP. In the process Tkachuk running away like a little girl school will not be forgotten by the tougher players in the league. Like I mentioned earlier somebody is going to line him up hard in the near future.

  195. Genjutsu says:

    OriginalPouzar: That woudl be “3rd man in”, a penalty and a game misconduct.

    Lindholm was there and tried a bit but there is only so much that can be done – it was the lineseman’s job.

    That’s only when two players have dropped the gloves so no.

  196. Justthestatsman says:

    Reja: None of these players were head hunters. Tkachuk was trying to take out Kassian I still can’t believe he was able to clock Kassian three times.

    That would be my recollection, although I believe Marchment was infamous for going for knees.

  197. Side says:

    Harpers Hair: Do you need a safe space?

    Remember when you threatened to contact your lawyer because someone made a joke about you?

    Good times.

  198. Bank Shot says:

    Side: Remember when you threatened to contact your lawyer because someone made a joke about you?

    Good times.

    Lol, Classic.

  199. Lowetide says:

    New for The Athletic: Dave Tippett’s deployment of Oilers defencemen indicates Kris Russell is vulnerable to trade

    https://theathletic.com/1531521/2020/01/14/lowetide-dave-tippetts-deployment-of-oilers-defencemen-indicates-kris-russell-is-vulnerable-to-trade/

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