53rd and 3rd

by Lowetide

Dave Tippett made a big difference to the Edmonton Oilers in 2019-20. Special teams is the obvious area but there are other pockets of improvement that appeared upon his arrival. Young players were able to fill feature roles that previously would have been filled by a veteran. He had an impressive feel for which goalie to ride in specific areas of the campaign. A coach can help his team, even if it is outmanned. Maybe we forgot about that over the years in Edmonton.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

MACT’S OILERS 2007-08

Craig MacTavish won 41 games with this roster. The team’s five on five goal differential (143-166, -23) was typical of a MacT team: Perhaps a little shy on the power play but better than expected at five on five. If MacT’s teams got goaltending, they would make the playoffs.

Using hockey-reference and even strength goals for and against, here are the goal differentials for Edmonton teams since the turn of the century. Notice what happens when MacT leaves and also notice when it corrects.

  • 2000-01: 171-156, +15 (MacT)
  • 2001-02: 142-125, +17 (MacT)
  • 2002-03: 162-161, +1 (MacT)
  • 2003-04: 164-134, +30 (MacT)
  • 2005-06: 146-161, -15 (MacT)
  • 2006-07: 133-182, -49 (MacT)
  • 2007-08: 156-181, -25 (MacT)
  • 2008-09: 165-160, +5 (MacT)
  • 2009-10: 148-206, -58 (Quinn)
  • 2010-11: 139-184, -45 (Renney)
  • 2011-12: 148-172, -24 (Renney)
  • 2012-13: 85-101, -26 (Krueger)
  • 2013-14: 149-204, -55 (Eakins)
  • 2014-15: 148-218, -70 (Eakins, MacT, Nelson)
  • 2015-16: 151-187, -36 (McLellan)
  • 2016-17: 183-159, +24 (McLellan)
  • 2017-18: 187-200, -13 (McLellan)
  • 2018-19: 172-202, -30 (McLellan, Hitchcock)
  • 2019-20: 161-174, -13 (Tippett)

MacT’s teams were mostly productive, the 2005-06 team was quality but lacked goaltending until the Dwayne Roloson trade (the other three goalies had save percentages under .900). The 2006-07 MacT team had major defensive issues but that improved in the following year and by his final season as coach MacT’s Oilers were in the black.

Beginning with Quinn, there’s a seven year period of bleeding badly until McLellan’s second campaign. The 2018-19 season, imo, was a lot about cap issues and unproven players in prominent positions.

As you can see, the 2019-20 season saw marked improvement at even-strength outscoring but there is work to be done.

LIAS ANDERSSON

Lots of Lias Andersson-Jesse Puljujarvi talk right now, I wrote about the idea just before Christmas. Apparently Ken Holland wanted a first-round pick added to Andersson, with a mid-level prospect coming back from Edmonton. There’s speculation that William Lagesson is the other piece in the puzzle but that’s not an actual factual trade proposal.

We don’t know where the pick will land, but let’s say it’s No. 21. The Rangers could use an NHL-ready left side blue (their right side is golden) and I’m a Lagesson fan. I think Dmitri Samorukov would have more potential value long term but Lagesson is a plug and play.

If the deal is Jesse Puljujarvi and William Lagesson for Lias Andersson and the pick that gets you Mavrik Bourque, I do the deal. You?

DRAFT OPTIONS

I’ll have an article up at The Athletic today or tomorrow about the Oilers situation as it pertains to the draft. It sounds like general managers will get their wish, with the timing of the draft occurring after the 2020 Stanley Cup is awarded. There’s a lot to talk about either way, we should find out about it this week.

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Munny

Lowetide: So, he bolts and then comes back for the playoffs? Bold strategy, Cotton.

1. He didn’t bolt from the Oilers

2. Apparently John Davidson has mended fences with Andersson and the Rags org

3. To repeat, Brooks believes Andersson would be named to the Ranger 30 man

3. Mental Health is the narrative so I am surprised this is the tact you are taking, LT

4. With my inclusion of Laggy and Pujo in the last reply, to make it evident i am pointing at a much bigger problem than just Andersson, for some reason we are still talking about the specifics of Andersson….?

meanashell11

Harpers Hair: You would be surprised how many major productions are based in Vancouver if you bothered to stay for the credits.

My son is a DP in Vancouver and has worked on dozens of major productions.

Hell , last summer I couldn’t drive to Comox because Deadpool had closed down the Island Highway.

Bastards.

Must be because production is cheaper in Canada!

ArmchairGM

defmn: I agree with you in general and I think you are correct about Las Vegas being the logical choice but we just came back from Palm Springs a couple of months ago and I wouldn’t say things were cheaper there. Maybe 5-10% more than Calgary. We were in the east up until last summer and spent winters in South Carolina. Some things cheaper (gas, chicken, cheese, eggs) but many things more expensive by about the exchange rate.

+1

ArmchairGM

Turning Tikkanese:
Just a thought. Ifthe trade for Andersson went through as posited, it could be only the beginning of draft day fun. With picks at 21 and say 24, perhaps the play is packaging them for a move up the board. Say 21 and our third to move up several spots, and 24 and a prospect to move up the board as well . Could end up as two picks in the top 10-15 of the draft if it works. Does this sound feasible?

Moving up 3 or 4 spots will cost a mid-2nd*. We don’t have any mid-2nds. Moving up 10-15 spots will cost both 1sts. Is that worth it? One pick at (say) 10-12 vs two picks at 20-23? Based on the depth of the draft, I’d say its better to have more bullets.

*At the 2018 draft, NYR traded #26 + #48 for #22: four spots for a mid-2nd. At the 2019 draft, Arizona traded #14 + #45 for #11: three spots for a mid-2nd.

buffalobill

If I was to guess both would be in big markets and n the east and Midwest

buffalobill

They will not have both in the west, time zones, more likely to have one in each

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Generally I’d agree things are cheaper in the States.

Except healthcare. *ducks

jp

Harpers Hair: A loaf of white bread in Bellingham costs 66 cents.

Tell me where you can buy it cheaper.
https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Bellingham

Well I don’t live in Bellingham. And the loaf of white bread I’m currently eating is 624g and cost about $4 (rather than 125g/66c your site lists). Still a gap that could be location I guess.

defmn

JimmyV1965: Other than fuel and booze, which is cheap everywhere in the U.S. compared to Canada, I’ve found a large variance in prices for everything in the States. Some places things are cheaper and some places they are more expensive.

My experience as well. Idaho is nothing like California for costs.

Not to mention that Vancouver Island tends to be more expensive than many parts of Canada with the additional costs involved in supplying an island so HH is also comparing from a different perspective.

I doubt any of this matters to the NHL though.

JimmyV1965

N64: Can Edmonton and Van eliminate the rest of Canada? There is almost none in either city. Covid is Canada is mostly in Ontario and Quebec neighboring surprise New York. The odd day you need the other hand hand to count the new covid cases in Edmonton.

I guess that’s the point I’m making. If the NHL is most interested in placing hubs in cities where Covid numbers are low, there are plenty of places in both countries. I suspect that will only be one part of the equation though.

JimmyV1965

Harpers Hair: Not true at all.

If you read the NYT article I posted, the MGM group is prepared to pay for all the testing.

Everything else in Canada is far more expensive and taxed to the hilt,.

When I visit my son in Tsawassen we crossthe border to fill up on gas that is half the price, food that is at least 25% cheaper and a 2/4 of Miller that in Canada goes for $35 is often on sale in Point Roberts for ten bucks.

Nothing in Canada is cheaper even given the exchange rate. Nothing.

Other than fuel and booze, which is cheap everywhere in the U.S. compared to Canada, I’ve found a large variance in prices for everything in the States. Some places things are cheaper and some places they are more expensive.

defmn

Harpers Hair: A loaf of white bread in Bellingham costs 66 cents.

Tell me where you can buy it cheaper.
https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Bellingham

I agree with you in general and I think you are correct about Las Vegas being the logical choice but we just came back from Palm Springs a couple of months ago and I wouldn’t say things were cheaper there. Maybe 5-10% more than Calgary. We were in the east up until last summer and spent winters in South Carolina. Some things cheaper (gas, chicken, cheese, eggs) but many things more expensive by about the exchange rate.

I don’t think any of this matters to the NHL though. As you say there will be mostly American teams in this thing and they will want to avoid international border crossing so I would have it south of the border as long as everything else is equal.

Harpers Hair

jp: Your last statement isn’t correct (bread for instance is more expensive in the US for some reason). But generally you’re absolutely right, food and most other things are cheaper than in Canada, even accounting for exchange rate.

A loaf of white bread in Bellingham costs 66 cents.

Tell me where you can buy it cheaper.
https://www.numbeo.com/food-prices/in/Bellingham

jp

N64: Can Edmonton and Van eliminate the rest of Canada? There is almost none in either city. Covid is Canada is mostly in Ontario and Quebec neighboring surprise New York. The odd day you need the other hand hand to count the new covid cases in Edmonton.

Was going to say similar. FWIW Nevada has a few more cases and some less deaths per capita than Canada as a whole. I don’t have the breakdown within Canada but there’s zero question it’s far lower than Nevada when you take out Quebec/Ontario.

Data is here. Each State is listed if you link to the US (but Provinces within Canada aren’t available):
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Aside from hotbeds like NY I don’t think it matters though. As you say the league pretty much has to run it as a full bubble, they can’t afford the risk of having to shut it down mid-playoffs.

jp

Harpers Hair: Not true at all.

If you read the NYT article I posted, the MGM group is prepared to pay for all the testing.

Everything else in Canada is far more expensive and taxed to the hilt,.

When I visit my son in Tsawassen we crossthe border to fill up on gas that is half the price, food that is at least 25% cheaper and a 2/4 of Miller that in Canada goes for $35 is often on sale in Point Roberts for ten bucks.

Nothing in Canada is cheaper even given the exchange rate. Nothing.

Your last statement isn’t correct (bread for instance is more expensive in the US for some reason). But generally you’re absolutely right, food and most other things are cheaper than in Canada, even accounting for exchange rate.

Harpers Hair

N64: Good thing the Internet was invented to spread out the hundred Christmas movies produced in Van to 2 other players.

You would be surprised how many major productions are based in Vancouver if you bothered to stay for the credits.

My son is a DP in Vancouver and has worked on dozens of major productions.

Hell , last summer I couldn’t drive to Comox because Deadpool had closed down the Island Highway.

Bastards.

N64

Harpers Hair: Vancouver is also a major production location for Netflix and Amazon Prime Video.

Hallmark is a bit player.

Good thing the Internet was invented to spread out the hundred Christmas movies produced in Van to 2 other players.

N64

Harpers Hair: British Columbia had 5 new cases reported today….the same as yesterday.

Vancouver Island hasn’t had a new case in a week and no one here is in hospital.

Should have said it’s a toss up most days whether to use one or both THUMBS to count the cases here. 12 total over the last 7 days. Same the week before.

Putting the Island and its hosting plans aside, Edmonton actually had a new hospital admission a few days ago after about 2 weeks of none.

Harpers Hair

N64: Van even has lots of available Hallmark production folks ready to pitch in to produce Gary’s big “When Hockey Hope Calls the Heart” playoffs.

Vancouver is also a major production location for Netflix and Amazon Prime Video.

Hallmark is a bit player.

N64

Harpers Hair: Not true at all.

If you read the NYT article I posted, the MGM group is prepared to pay for all the testing.

Everything else in Canada is far more expensive and taxed to the hilt,.

When I visit my son in Tsawassen we crossthe border to fill up on gas that is half the price, food that is at least 25% cheaper and a 2/4 of Miller that in Canada goes for $35 is often on sale in Point Roberts for ten bucks.

Nothing in Canada is cheaper even given the exchange rate. Nothing.

Van even has lots of available Hallmark production folks ready to pitch in to produce Gary’s big “When Hockey Hope Calls the Heart” playoffs.

Harpers Hair

N64: Can Edmonton and Van eliminate the rest of Canada? There is almost none in either city. The odd day you need the other hand hand to count the new covid cases in Edmonton.

British Columbia had 5 new cases reported today….the same as yesterday.

Vancouver Island hasn’t had a new case in a week and no one here is in hospital.

N64

JimmyV1965: I’m pretty sure if you eliminate New York and a couple hot spots like Detroit, the penetration of Covid in both countries is similar.

Can Edmonton and Van eliminate the rest of Canada? There is almost none in either city. Covid is Canada is mostly in Ontario and Quebec neighboring surprise New York. The odd day you need the other hand hand to count the new covid cases in Edmonton.

Harpers Hair

OriginalPouzar: The cost of the bubble would be in Canadian dollars in housed in a Canadian city – the cost of testing alone would be massively decreased.

Not true at all.

If you read the NYT article I posted, the MGM group is prepared to pay for all the testing.

Everything else in Canada is far more expensive and taxed to the hilt,.

When I visit my son in Tsawassen we cross the border to fill up on gas that is half the price, food that is at least 25% cheaper and a 2/4 of Miller that in Canada goes for $35 is often on sale in Point Roberts for ten bucks.

Nothing in Canada is cheaper even given the exchange rate. Nothing.

N64

€√¥£€^$: The Canadian dollar would also be a huge factor.Otherwise I can’t see what the benefits are tin playing the games in the US if there are no fans at the rink.

I know you are all over this, but Covid-19 risk seems to be greater risk in the US, in general.

Mostly I think all games will be on one side of the border. Don’t think the league wants to cross borders between rounds or to have all games in Canada.

12 new cases all last week in Edmonton and same the week before. Similar in Van. So yeah those 2 cities could do the whole thing. Eastern conference would be in Edmonton.

Myself wherever they go I’d go for FULL bubble. Arena complex + pedway + hotel all inside bubble and staff volunteering to join bubble could get cash bonuses + exclusive playoff seating, That way players are already quarantined and never have to be quarantined mid-playoff.

JimmyV1965

€√¥£€^$: The Canadian dollar would also be a huge factor.Otherwise I can’t see what the benefits are tin playing the games in the US if there are no fans at the rink.

I know you are all over this, but Covid-19 risk seems to be greater risk in the US, in general.

I’m pretty sure if you eliminate New York and a couple hot spots like Detroit, the penetration of Covid in both countries is similar.

defmn

Harpers Hair,

Thanks.

JimmyV1965

Lowetide: I think you can make the case that NYR are giving up more than equal value in the deal. However, JP alongside Kakko has appeal and Lagesson could slide right in on the left side (I like him) if things break right.

They’re both inexpensive too, that’s a major consideration. I do think Samorukov replacing Lagesson makes the deal more even.

Would love it if Kenny could pull off the deal. I like Andersson and think he would be a nice fit here. Really, I’d be happy if we traded JP for Andersson and a third. It’s really challenging to put a trade value on JP.

OriginalPouzar

Harpers Hair: Pretty much everyone in the NHL is paid in US dollars.

Can’t see how the exchange rate would affect much.

The cost of the bubble would be in Canadian dollars in housed in a Canadian city – the cost of testing alone would be massively decreased.

Harpers Hair
jp

Lowetide: I read somewhere that both the NHL and NBA had interest in Vegas. Might be a turf war.

Could be.

And more generally on Canada vs the US, there’d be less red tape down south.

JimmyV1965

Harpers Hair: Yes.

They actually have four suitable ice sheets available for practice in the City National Arena and Las Vegas Ice centre.

?

Harpers Hair

€√¥£€^$: The Canadian dollar would also be a huge factor.Otherwise I can’t see what the benefits are tin playing the games in the US if there are no fans at the rink.

I know you are all over this, but Covid-19 risk seems to be greater risk in the US, in general.

Pretty much everyone in the NHL is paid in US dollars.

Can’t see how the exchange rate would affect much.

Harpers Hair

Lowetide: I read somewhere that both the NHL and NBA had interest in Vegas. Might be a turf war.

Looks like Vegas could handle both.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-and-wnba-were-offered-a-whole-block-on-the-las-vegas-strip-to-play-and-live-by-mgm-resorts-report-says/

€√¥£€^$

Munny: He’s only on loan, has an existing NHL contract for this year so is not prohibited from the playoffs, and would be eligible for the extended roster the NHL is tossing about,

Larry Brooks believes that if the post-season happens, Andersson would be on the Rags 30 man.

I could be wrong, but I don’t think the SHL has any plans to play this summer either.

I think it is obvious we would need some clarity from the League on draft day trades before such a deal could happen.

Same of course applies to Laggy and Pujo.

Difference is, JP didn’t sign a contract to play for Edm this season.

€√¥£€^$

N64: Still would be surprised if there are any Canadian sites. Can’t see them leaving the border as a mid-playoff exposure.

Update: I guess I’m discounting the leverage that the Canadian Rightsholders could potentially leverage in true up negotiations, but again a long shot.

The Canadian dollar would also be a huge factor. Otherwise I can’t see what the benefits are tin playing the games in the US if there are no fans at the rink.

I know you are all over this, but Covid-19 risk seems to be greater risk in the US, in general.

jp

Harpers Hair: The massive Mandalay Bay resort is right beside T-Mobile arena and I’m pretty sure the billionaire owners could catch Bettmans ear.

If Vegas wants this then there’s not much question they could be persuasive. But who knows how it goes.

Harpers Hair

jp: I have zero actual clue, but I wonder if Vegas would be happy beat any other “venue” cost-wise just for the profile boost. I can only imagine how desperate they are for any activity at all with how many empty hotel rooms and casinos they have (and the associated staff who are presumably just biding their time).

The massive Mandalay Bay resort is right beside T-Mobile arena and I’m pretty sure the billionaire owners could catch Bettmans ear.

Harpers Hair

OriginalPouzar: I don’t think there is four, no but, from accounts, they can house 12 teams without issue and I anticipate the requisite “approved ice” for the required scheduling.

Honestly, I don’t really care where the games are hosted – I don’t see any material advantage for a “home team” but, as I said, if they can do it solely in Canada, that would increase net revenues I would think.

Not really.

Edmonton is by far the furthest and toughest to reach by air.

It also doesn’t have the TV production crews that American cities and even Vancouver have so they would all need to be imported.

None of the National TV commentators are in Edmonton so they would also have to be brought in.

If the NHL goes with a 24 team playoffs only 6 are Canadian while 18 are American so moving all those players becomes an issue.

I can see the EC playing out of Vegas and the WC playing out of Minnesota if they decide to go 12/12.

jp

OriginalPouzar: I don’t think there is four, no but, from accounts, they can house 12 teams without issue and I anticipate the requisite “approved ice” for the required scheduling.

Honestly, I don’t really care where the games are hosted – I don’t see any material advantage for a “home team” but, as I said, if they can do it solely in Canada, that would increase net revenues I would think.

I have zero actual clue, but I wonder if Vegas would be happy beat any other “venue” cost-wise just for the profile boost. I can only imagine how desperate they are for any activity at all with how many empty hotel rooms and casinos they have (and the associated staff who are presumably just biding their time).

OriginalPouzar

Harpers Hair: As noted above, Vegas has four regulation ice rinks close to T-Mobile.

Does Edmonton?

I have no idea.

I don’t think there is four, no but, from accounts, they can house 12 teams without issue and I anticipate the requisite “approved ice” for the required scheduling.

Honestly, I don’t really care where the games are hosted – I don’t see any material advantage for a “home team” but, as I said, if they can do it solely in Canada, that would increase net revenues I would think.

Victoria Oil

LT – Did ’53rd and 3rd’ come from the Killing of Georgie by Rod Stewart? I used to work about 4-5 blocks away from there in NYC. Would often think of that song when I was near that corner.

Harpers Hair

OriginalPouzar: Yup, for sure.

Edmonton checks all the boxes as well.

If they want to go with two hubs and all else was equal (i.e. if Vancouver is able to check off all the boxes), I would anticipate they’d prefer to do it in Canada which would save 30% of the costs, appx.

As noted above, Vegas has four regulation ice rinks close to T-Mobile.

Does Edmonton?

I have no idea.

OriginalPouzar

N64: Vegas runs everything 24 hours a day

Well, yes, but the games will be during “waking hours” of course given TV and related revenue is the main point.

OriginalPouzar

Harpers Hair: Las Vegas seems to be the leading candidate because it checks all the boxes.

The NHL could take over a whole hotel close to the arena.

Yup, for sure.

Edmonton checks all the boxes as well.

If they want to go with two hubs and all else was equal (i.e. if Vancouver is able to check off all the boxes), I would anticipate they’d prefer to do it in Canada which would save 30% of the costs, appx.

Harpers Hair

defmn: How much time do they need between games to keep the ice useable is important though. If they want to run games in prime time for TV consumption I think they need at least two rinks to set up for lighting for the cameras.

City National Arena was originally the home of the Golden Knights while T-Mobile was being built.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_National_Arena

jp

Glovjuice: Man, you are a VERY slow learner. Both for 3/4 is even goofier.

Man, I hope you don’t talk to your kids that way.