Unsolved Mysteries

by Lowetide

A reader emailed me on the weekend, asking me about my draft posts and final rankings. I’ve done the rankings for each draft in one form or another for over a decade now, our reader wanted to know why.

My answer? Two reasons. First, I think math can help teams find talent, and I think math can be applied to hockey. So I jumped in and began searching for talent in 200 names.

Second, it’s a great way to educate myself about the new prospects and to find moneypuck inefficiencies in the market. They do exist!

I keep hoping the Oilers will draft closer to my list each summer. The truth is Edmonton’s drafting was closer to my list a decade ago than it is today but we’re both making progress.

Since 2010, I’ve incorporated more math, punished a lack of speed and discovered numbers that hold real value. I’m no expert, but do lay claim to being a devoted amateur.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

A decade ago

In 2010, I had Taylor Hall No. 1 and Tyler Pitlick No. 21. In 2011, I had Nuge No. 1, Oscar Klefbom No. 24 and David Musil No. 26. In 2012, I had Nail Yakupov No. 1. In 2013, I had Darnell Nurse No. 9. In those years, my list was only 30 deep and I shuffled everyone’s top 40 into my 30. Added to the fact Edmonton was picking No. 1 overall, the exercise wasn’t difficult. The most thought I ever put into a ranking was Nuge over Sean Couturier. That was a tough call.

In 2014 I began using math heavily and yes I do realize there is possible humor in this sentence. I had Leon Draisaitl No. 3 overall, William Lagesson No. 77 and Zach Nagelvoort No. 91.

In 2015 I had Connor McDavid No. 1, Ethan Bear No. 38, John Marino at No. 112. In 2016 I had Jesse Puljujarvi No. 3, Tyler Benson No. 34, Filip Berglund No. 61, Markus Niemelainen No. 108, Aapeli Rasanan No. 112, Matthew Cairns No. 145.

In 2017, I had Kailer Yamamoto No. 11 and was pleased Edmonton picked him. I don’t think they would have chosen him in 2010. Ostap Safin was on my list at No. 52, Dmitri Samorukov No. 133.

In 2018, I ranked Evan Bouchard No. 8, Ryan McLeod No. 25, Olivier Rodrigue No. 60. In 2019, I had Philip Broberg No. 16, Raphael Lavoie No. 26.

Long preamble to get here but I do think the Oilers are headed in a new direction and suspect it doesn’t rhyme with my arithmetic. Here are the NHLE’s of the last nine Holland first-round picks:

  1. LC Filip Zadina 2018 (33.5)
  2. LW Evgeny Svechnikov 2015 (33.0)
  3. LW Anthony Mantha 2013 (30.9)
  4. LC Joe Veleno 2018 (28.7)
  5. LW Michael Rasmussen 2017 (27.2)
  6. LC Dylan Larkin 2014 (22.1)
  7. LC Riley Sheahan 2010 (12.0)
  8. LD Dennis Cholowski 2016 (8.5)
  9. LD Philip Broberg 2019 (8.3)

Broberg was chosen No. 8, I had him No. 16. Michael Rasmussen was No. 9, I had him 10 slots below. Dennis Cholowski went No. 20, I had him No. 78! Dylan Larkin went No. 15, I had him No. 21. My list would have chosen Robby Fabbri.

On the other hand, Filip Zadina was chosen No. 6, I had him No. 3, Joe Veleno went No. 30 my ranking was No. 16. Evgeny Svechnikov went No. 19, I had him No. 10 overall.

The Broberg, Rasmussen and Cholowski picks strike me as being opposite to math considering where each man was taken.

What does that mean? Well, I’ve identified Mavrik Bourque (I have him No. 11) as a player who might fall to Edmonton in the draft. Based on what I know about the Oilers drafting history, my guess is that the club would value Bourque. I just don’t know if the Holland-Wright tandem values him more than Kaiden Guhle.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A huge sports weekend, as golf, soccer, car racing returned to action. Off the pitch-course-track, the NHL edged a little nearer to making actual news. We’ll chat with Ryan Rishaug of TSN about the weekend just past and the news to come this week. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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defmn

stephen sheps:

We are not a very attractive species.

Jaxon

Material Elvis: I know you love the primary points per 60 but I can’t find any evidence that indicates it is more useful or accurate than points per game.Maybe more useful for defensemen than forwards?

Well, points/gp depends on how much ice time you get. If you have a chance to score for 5 more minutes per game that is a substantial advantage. I also use thresholds of ice time to separate the players playing against top competition and trusted with heavy responsibility from players who see easier competition and less responsibility. I use primary as it often provides us with a better idea of who the driver on a line is. Passengers on a line can often simply get the puck to the driver on their line and let them get the first assist and goals. I believe primary points are actually better for forwards than D as a desirable quality in D is the breakout pass which can often be the 2nd assist. But a forward who is able to see the goal developing and able to be involved in the last 2 steps of actually scoring it has more value. I believe it has also been statistically shown (I haven’t visited this in a few years, so I’m not sure where I’ve seen that) that primary points these harder to acquire points statistically show up in players who are better in higher leagues. That is why I go with 5-on-5 Primary Points / 60 with a TOI threshold. I would also ding players with speed issues as Lowetide does. Also, when looking at my age-league-era adjusted formulas and the results when combined with TOI thresholds, the accuracy of predicting players who succeed in the NHL is pretty damn good. There are outliers, but many of the outliers had very obvious issues that are more difficult to account for (ie. substance abuse, character flaws, etc).

godot10

stephen sheps:
**** Warning long post ahead***

Maybe this is too political for this thread (and maybe I’m setting myself up to be throttled on all sides here, but I’m going to do it anyway), but this sets up a really interesting dichotomy of expectations, and at least sociologically speaking is worth exploring (and I do in my real life)…

There is an incredible double standard at play when it comes to athletes and activism, who speaks and who doesn’t. The belief that African American athletes need to speak up in order to leave a greater impact on the world when white athletes are not held to the same standard is something that as a sport sociologist I often grapple with. One of the paper topics for my sports class is athletes that are bigger than the game (along with, most recently a topic about the validity of esports as sports & a topic about sport and global development).

The bigger than the game topic has been the one consistent paper in each of the years I’ve taught the class At first, the vast majority of students who wrote on the ‘bigger than the game’ topic chose to write about rather basic, easy comparisons like Kaepernick vs. Ali or looked at LeBron James following the ‘Shut Up and Dribble’/Laura Ingraham situation. Last semester I chose to open things up a bit and let students write about infamous athletes, people that were bigger than the game for less than ideal reasons (think OJ, Tanya Harding, Aaron Hernandez – and the paper I received about Harding was actually spectacular, but I digress).

The point is that many students still chose to write about the obvious James and Kaep stories, occasionally digging deeper and looking into the tradition of Black Anti-racist Activism in the US and the role that sport has played in bringing issues to the forefront. It’s a really interesting history and if anyone is interested, I’m happy to share some of the articles I’ve found/assigned to my students. I’ve yet to read a paper about a white athlete who’s chosen to work alongside their Black peers. Nothing on someone like Chris Long, barely a peep about Megan Rapinoe.

What’s interesting about this Kinger/Godot debate is twofold:

1) the assumption that Black athletes always need to be bigger than the game in order to protect their legacies (especially as a mostly white, conservative media complex tries to silence & delegitimize the work that they do in their communities at the best of times). Where did this expectation come from and why is it applied to minorities and oppressed people primarily? Why can’t Mike just be a basketball player, a living brand and a trailblazer as one of the very few minority owners of a pro sports team?

2) The relative silence of most of these athletes’ white peers. Given the demographic makeup of the NBA and NFL on the players’ side, the culture appears to be much more open and accepting of athlete activism, and in the NBA the league as a whole (though this was not always the case – look at Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Jordan’s teammate Craig Hodges, who spoke out against racism in the US under Bush 1 and was essentially forced out of the league as a result).

In a league like the NHL, someone like Connor McDavid, who is arguably one of 3 faces of the league along with Crosby and Ovechkin, would never speak up because it’s not a part of the culture, it’s not a part of the tradition and speaking out comes with consequences. It’s easier to say nothing & tow the company line, especially if you’ve never experienced the issues that the activist types are fighting against.

Yesterday Akim Aliu published a scathing piece on hockey culture and the racism baked into the game on the player’s tribune, including what happened recently to Rangers prospect K’Andre Miller on a zoom chat. It’s a must read I think, and because it came out yesterday it doesn’t violate the 24 hour rule: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/hockey-is-not-for-everyone-akim-aliu-nhl

In a sport where minorities are very much in the minority, what’s the motivation to speak up or speak out? Why would McDavid feel compelled to voice his concerns? It makes me wonder if he’s had conversations about these issues with his non-white teammates, especially Bear and Khaira. I also wonder what would happen if he did speak up or tried to become an ally? Would the face of the league suffer the same sorts of consequences as a Kaepernick? or an Aliu? Perhaps because he is that banal, suburban white kid that Kinger described him as, his influence would be felt by others who have similar backgrounds and experiences and would take the opportunity to reflect on their own places in the world and not just stand idly by when heinous stuff happens in locker rooms, in practice, on social media and on the ice.

***end lengthy post***

Hockey has had its activists. Ted Lindsay, Carl Brewer, Mike Gillis. There activism was all in relation to players rights. Mike Gillis’s lonely fight was against the NHLPA, against his own “brothers”, which eventually led to the bringing down the corrupt Alan Eagleson.

JimmyV1965

stephen sheps,

I wanted to respond because this was an excellent, thought-provoking post. My initial thought is only stars can afford to speak out about anything. If players like Aliu speak out, they’re out the door. I’m not even sure it’s racism. These guys are viewed as a liability that aren’t worth keeping around so they are kicked down the road. Unfortunately in the NHL, racism is a topic that doesn’t resonate with the vast majority of players. Professional sports leagues will tolerate very bad behaviour from their stars. But marginal players are there to be seen, not heard, even if what they say is important.

jp

stephen sheps,

Interesting contribution Stephen, thank you.

stephen sheps

Kinger_Oil.redux: MJ in life dissapointed me, in the same way Tiger Woods has. Not for their personal failings, rather for their decidly strictly financial outcomes they have so vigoursily persued. MJ’s famous quote about “Republican’s buy shoes too” as his justification for not wanting to wade into issues was so perfect

godot10: Michael Jordan was a basketball player. Why is only he required to be more?

Do you see McDavid getting political?

**** Warning long post ahead***

Maybe this is too political for this thread (and maybe I’m setting myself up to be throttled on all sides here, but I’m going to do it anyway), but this sets up a really interesting dichotomy of expectations, and at least sociologically speaking is worth exploring (and I do in my real life)…

There is an incredible double standard at play when it comes to athletes and activism, who speaks and who doesn’t. The belief that African American athletes need to speak up in order to leave a greater impact on the world when white athletes are not held to the same standard is something that as a sport sociologist I often grapple with. One of the paper topics for my sports class is athletes that are bigger than the game (along with, most recently a topic about the validity of esports as sports & a topic about sport and global development).

The bigger than the game topic has been the one consistent paper in each of the years I’ve taught the class At first, the vast majority of students who wrote on the ‘bigger than the game’ topic chose to write about rather basic, easy comparisons like Kaepernick vs. Ali or looked at LeBron James following the ‘Shut Up and Dribble’/Laura Ingraham situation. Last semester I chose to open things up a bit and let students write about infamous athletes, people that were bigger than the game for less than ideal reasons (think OJ, Tanya Harding, Aaron Hernandez – and the paper I received about Harding was actually spectacular, but I digress).

The point is that many students still chose to write about the obvious James and Kaep stories, occasionally digging deeper and looking into the tradition of Black Anti-racist Activism in the US and the role that sport has played in bringing issues to the forefront. It’s a really interesting history and if anyone is interested, I’m happy to share some of the articles I’ve found/assigned to my students. I’ve yet to read a paper about a white athlete who’s chosen to work alongside their Black peers. Nothing on someone like Chris Long, barely a peep about Megan Rapinoe.

What’s interesting about this Kinger/Godot debate is twofold:

1) the assumption that Black athletes always need to be bigger than the game in order to protect their legacies (especially as a mostly white, conservative media complex tries to silence & delegitimize the work that they do in their communities at the best of times). Where did this expectation come from and why is it applied to minorities and oppressed people primarily? Why can’t Mike just be a basketball player, a living brand and a trailblazer as one of the very few minority owners of a pro sports team?

2) The relative silence of most of these athletes’ white peers. Given the demographic makeup of the NBA and NFL on the players’ side, the culture appears to be much more open and accepting of athlete activism, and in the NBA the league as a whole (though this was not always the case – look at Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf and Jordan’s teammate Craig Hodges, who spoke out against racism in the US under Bush 1 and was essentially forced out of the league as a result).

In a league like the NHL, someone like Connor McDavid, who is arguably one of 3 faces of the league along with Crosby and Ovechkin, would never speak up because it’s not a part of the culture, it’s not a part of the tradition and speaking out comes with consequences. It’s easier to say nothing & tow the company line, especially if you’ve never experienced the issues that the activist types are fighting against.

Yesterday Akim Aliu published a scathing piece on hockey culture and the racism baked into the game on the player’s tribune, including what happened recently to Rangers prospect K’Andre Miller on a zoom chat. It’s a must read I think, and because it came out yesterday it doesn’t violate the 24 hour rule: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/hockey-is-not-for-everyone-akim-aliu-nhl

In a sport where minorities are very much in the minority, what’s the motivation to speak up or speak out? Why would McDavid feel compelled to voice his concerns? It makes me wonder if he’s had conversations about these issues with his non-white teammates, especially Bear and Khaira. I also wonder what would happen if he did speak up or tried to become an ally? Would the face of the league suffer the same sorts of consequences as a Kaepernick? or an Aliu? Perhaps because he is that banal, suburban white kid that Kinger described him as, his influence would be felt by others who have similar backgrounds and experiences and would take the opportunity to reflect on their own places in the world and not just stand idly by when heinous stuff happens in locker rooms, in practice, on social media and on the ice.

***end lengthy post***

jp

OriginalPouzar: Sure, fair enough, although development camp is barely even an on-ice camp – wouldn’t call that any sort of real audition.

No question, just trying to bridge the gap.

OriginalPouzar

jp: Broberg was in Edmonton for development camp last summer though..

Sure, fair enough, although development camp is barely even an on-ice camp – wouldn’t call that any sort of real audition.

jp

hunter1909: lol I got mixed up with Bouchard.

Senility is a welcome thing with me, since I’ll be the last one to worry about it.

Broberg was in Edmonton for development camp last summer though..

hunter1909

OriginalPouzar: When did Broberg audition for the Oilers?I don’t think he was even at training camp last year?

lol I got mixed up with Bouchard.

Senility is a welcome thing with me, since I’ll be the last one to worry about it.

Pescador

Harpers Hair: Ha…you don’t know how many lobsters I have.

You live on Vancouver island,
Umm I don’t know how to break this to you Kramer…
Whatever you were stealing out of those traps on the beach,
They’re not Lobsters

Reja

Death By Misadventure: Sometimes it’s just fun to run our mouths and make wagers without being called out to lose money. Settle down young stallion and let the old lion rest.

If you want to trash Bouchard over and over for months on end it’s time to put your money where your mouth is young grasshopper. Why don’t you take the bet as it’s looks like somebody turned chicken a’ la king for supper tonight.

Death By Misadventure

Harpers Hair: Let’s assume Broberg progresses to the point over the next several years and becomes the next Klefbom.

You’re just treading water.

Not sure I agree with this. I would rather take two Klefs over a Klef and a Nurse. I think that’s progress.

My number one draft success requirement for the Oilers is that they don’t draft a LHD. Maybe I drank the coolaid but I think the Oilers are done there for the next 6-10 years.

Harpers Hair

Death By Misadventure: 100% agree. Klef had poor boxcars in his draft year and to me he is a protypical 2020s NHL defensemen. Huge steal for the Oilers.

Still, can’t help to have my sphincter tighten when I here the words “8th overall” and “Broberg” in the same sentence. ?

Let’s assume Broberg progresses to the point over the next several years and becomes the next Klefbom.

You’re just treading water.

who

defmn: Yeah. I sat out yesterday’s conversation for that very reason. Made no sense to me.

There is a better chance of Puljujarvi returning to play with the Oilers than the NYR making that trade imo.

At first I thought, “Hell yeah, I make that trade all day long if I am the Oilers”. Now I’m not so sure that it doesn’t make some sense for both sides.
I just wonder if people aren’t devaluing JP too much here. I don’t have a clue about Anderson, but if the major pieces are JP and the 18OV, what makes everyone so sure that the 18OV is going to be a better player than JP?
Seems to me that there is a lot of racetrack left with Jesse.

Death By Misadventure

London Jon:
Seems to me like good, wholesome fun to put some (charitable) money where our mouths are and to add some spice to watching how the two players develop over the next few years.

You seem very confident that EB is overrated and that Rafferty will outscore him over the next 5 years. Let’s back it up with some charitable giving to prove that we aren’t just throwing statements out to get people’s backs up.

Each year we settle up based on that years point differential so it isn’t too painful for anyone in any given year

Sometimes it’s just fun to run our mouths and make wagers without being called out to lose money. Settle down young stallion and let the old lion rest.

Death By Misadventure

OriginalPouzar: I still haven’t fully bought in to NHLe – in particular when its not age-adjusted but, in my opinion, is there is one area where NHLe means the least, its with respect to 17-18 year old d-men playing in the Swedish League!

100% agree. Klef had poor boxcars in his draft year and to me he is a protypical 2020s NHL defensemen. Huge steal for the Oilers.

Still, can’t help to have my sphincter tighten when I here the words “8th overall” and “Broberg” in the same sentence. 🙂

defmn

€√¥£€^$:
Lowetide,

Bordeleau was a stone alone on a weak USNDT roster, no Yings to his Yang.I bet if he had a Caufield, Turcotte or Boldy as a linemate, he’d have had a much better point total.

Regarding Lapierre, in hindsight I faded him quite a bit.I had him in my top 20 earlier, but I hadn’t paid much attention to potential 1st Round Defensemen and when I dug deep into Seth Jarvis, he kept rising on my list, as did Perreault, Gunler and the Ze Germans, which took my focus off of Lapierre.

But this is not my final final final list, I have lots more time to delve deeper and of course second guess myself.In my viewings I also thought Lapierre was smaller than he actually is…

I don’t know enough about any of these guys to ask intelligent questions about how you arrived at your ranking but wanted to thank you for posting them. It is guys like you that do the work that I rely on to help me appreciate draft day.

Harpers Hair

Lowetide: One of the best days of my hockey fan life.

Me too.

Section 19, Row 11. And a memorable night at the Rose and Crown after the game.

€√¥£€^$

Lowetide,

Bordeleau was a stone alone on a weak USNDT roster, no Yings to his Yang. I bet if he had a Caufield, Turcotte or Boldy as a linemate, he’d have had a much better point total.

Regarding Lapierre, in hindsight I faded him quite a bit. I had him in my top 20 earlier, but I hadn’t paid much attention to potential 1st Round Defensemen and when I dug deep into Seth Jarvis, he kept rising on my list, as did Perreault, Gunler and the Ze Germans, which took my focus off of Lapierre.

But this is not my final final final list, I have lots more time to delve deeper and of course second guess myself. In my viewings I also thought Lapierre was smaller than he actually is…

Munny

€√¥£€^$: Although, I suspect my #3 Dman on this list might be the top scorer of the bunch.

Is that Andrae?

Harpers Hair

May 19.

It’s Dusty Hills birthday among a couple of famous people.

Also a landmark date in Oilers history.

Not a peep from you guys and girls.

Harpers Hair

Pescador: Well technically if he is eating the lobster meat first,
then it would be a a lobster *shell* risotto
doesn’t have quite the same ring to it

Ha…you don’t know how many lobsters I have.

Material Elvis

Pescador: Well technically if he is eating the lobster meat first,
then it would be a a lobster *shell* risotto
doesn’t have quite the same ring to it

Indeed. I think I just saw the word lobster and my eyes glazed over.

Kinger_Oil.redux

godot10: Why do you argue that Jordan should be held to a much higher standard than Gretzky?OrJohn Elway or Joe Montana, who arguably are his contemporaries?Baseball players (with complicity by the owners and managers) were stuffing themselves with steroids.Why a different standard for Jordan than Carl Lewis?

Michael Jordan was a basketball player.Why is only he required to be more?

Contrast Jordan’s “Republican’s buy shoes too” to Hillary’s “They are a bunch of deplorables”. Which one of them is seeing the humanity in everyone. He was reaching out to everyone in the way that he knew how in the context of the person that he was.

Do you see McDavid getting political?

Most celebrity do-goodism is just PR and propaganda and hypocrisy.

The best way to make an impact is to be an authentic person, and Michael Jordan was that.

– It’s a fair rebuttal. And I agree the celebrity do-goodism today is PR: that’s my point

– I don’t hold them to different standards. I remember Tiger’s Dad saying his son would have a greater impact outside of golf.

– But I think that unlike Wayne or Elway etc, these guys could have raised issues, and been effective, and done things if so inclined.

– Ali wasn’t doing a publicity stunt: he effected change becasue he could and he cared and he chose to do so: Many admire that as much as his boxing accomplishmets.

– Tiger for instance could have not played at clubs where except for the fact that he was Tiger, he couldn’t be a member of becasue of the colour of his skin. But as you say, why should he?

– Kapernick: he lost his career because he knelt to highlight social unjust. I don’t expect athletes to be political advocates.

– I can still be disappointed in MJ and Tiger though for their lack of willingness to be other than than great in their sports. That’s different than saying that Wayne ought to talk politics

– McD: he’s a suburb white kid who is awesome at hockey. He’s as banal as they come: expect being best at hockey every year of his life, I don’t expect or want anything from him other than to wow me at hockey. He had no systematic challenges to deal with that would be similar to millions of kids.

– Or small things like Tom Watson qutting his home club in KC because they woulnd’t accept a Jewish member.

– A Jordan Tottoo: thats a guy who has a platform and inspires many who have gone through the same challenges (he’s just not a superstar)

– I don’t “care” that those two have not shown any inclination to want to bring forward issues. But they could have and it would have been powerful IMO.

Pescador

Material Elvis: It’s lobster risotto?Daaayum.Quit holding out on us.

Well technically if he is eating the lobster meat first,
then it would be a a lobster *shell* risotto
doesn’t have quite the same ring to it

Kinger_Oil.redux

– On a second note. I’ve said this before: I was lucky enough to be at this game. It was the best hockey I’d ever seem played (and I was at Copps for ’87 Canada Cup, and the Oilers Cup teams live

– Team North America just came out and crushed the Wedes, who no doubt didn’t take them seriously. It was fun to see the Wedes: mean, grind them down, but also play tremendous hockey. Of course the 3×3 gavoured the North Americans at the end. What a game, the atmosphere was incredible.

– FUN FACT : Tippet was an assistant coach to McLellan on this, I forgot that:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/memories-electric-team-north-america-not-faded/

€√¥£€^$

Good Evening Folks,

Here is my list of the top 31 prospects for this year’s Draft. This is not what I think will happen, but these are who I think are the best players in order. Although, I suspect my #3 Dman on this list might be the top scorer of the bunch. We will see.

1 Alexis Lafreniere
2 Tim Stuzle
3 Marco Rossi
4 Jamie Drysdale
5 Quinton Byfield
6 Lucas Raymond
7 Cole Perfetti
8 Alexander Holtz
9 Yaroslav Askarov
10 Seth Jarvis
11 Jack Quinn
12 Rodion Amirov
13 Anton Lundell
14 Jake Sanderson
15 Dawson Mercer
16 Thomas Bordeleau
17 Jacob Perreault
18 Connor Zary
19 Emil Andrae
20 Noel Gunler
21 John-Jason Peterka
22 Jan Mysak
23 Braden Schneider
24 Dylan Holloway
25 Helge Grans
26 Eemil Viro
27 Mavrik Bourque
28 Lukas Reichel
29 Brendan Brisson
30 Hendrix Lapierre
31 Vasili Ponomaryov

Enjoy and fire away, lol

godot10

Kinger_Oil.redux:
– There was a good article about sport and its connection to fans.It was in the context of the MJ 10-part series “The Last Dance”.

–I loved the ambition of the series.I was really dismayed though that MJ had such huge oversight and control over the whole thing.Perhaps that explains why I didn’t “love” the series: I don’t like propoganda.But certainly an amazing series.

– MJ in life dissapointed me, in the same way Tiger Woods has.Not for their personal failings, rather for their decidly strictly financial outcomes they have so vigoursily persued.MJ’s famous quote about “Republican’s buy shoes too” as his justification for not wanting to wade into issues was so perfect

– But they both could do great jobs as advocates for many injustices in society.

– Muhummad Ali as an example, his principaled, not political stance about why as a Black American, he refused to go to war, becoming an antiwar and civil rights hero. Imagine the Supreme Court reversed a decision, based on Ali’s 4 year advocacy.

– Ali: “It has been said that I have two alternatives,” . “Either go to jail or go to the army. But I would like to say that there is another alternative. And that alternative, that alternative is justice. And if justice prevails, I will neither go to the army, nor will I go to jail.”Ali was right, and justice won.

– Anyway, there were too parts to this post.

– First, Professional athletes today are “owned” by the corporations that employ them.But Tiger and MJ in particular, they are as powerful and could make the same kinds of impact of Ali to make changes.

– Second, and this is the link to the article: “Pro sports are never just about watching some people compete at a sport. They also emotionally invest in a story, one that’s unfolding unpredictably as we watch. And fans of sports invest themselves into that story the same way fans of TV shows or comics series do. They watch every game and discuss every play; they analyze and speculate and invent theories; they listen to other people analyze on TV and radio and podcasts; they participate in fantasy sports, a sports fan’s equivalent of writing fanfic. Developing an attachment to a big story produces the same thing that religion or cultural tradition gives: a sense of belonging, of having a place, of moving through time in a way that’s exciting, interesting, and grounding.

I think that’s why so many people have felt so lost after the suspension of pro sports during the coronavirus pandemic.”

– We all miss sports, and this was an excellent piece:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/5/19/21262308/the-last-dance-michael-jordan-espn-bulls-basketball

– End of random ramblings…

Why do you argue that Jordan should be held to a much higher standard than Gretzky? Or John Elway or Joe Montana, who arguably are his contemporaries? Baseball players (with complicity by the owners and managers) were stuffing themselves with steroids. Why a different standard for Jordan than Carl Lewis?

Michael Jordan was a basketball player. Why is only he required to be more?

Contrast Jordan’s “Republican’s buy shoes too” to Hillary’s “They are a bunch of deplorables”. Which one of them is seeing the humanity in everyone. He was reaching out to everyone in the way that he knew how in the context of the person that he was.

Do you see McDavid getting political?

Most celebrity do-goodism is just PR and propaganda and hypocrisy.

The best way to make an impact is to be an authentic person, and Michael Jordan was that.

Kinger_Oil.redux

– There was a good article about sport and its connection to fans. It was in the context of the MJ 10-part series “The Last Dance”.

– I loved the ambition of the series. I was really dismayed though that MJ had such huge oversight and control over the whole thing. Perhaps that explains why I didn’t “love” the series: I don’t like propoganda. But certainly an amazing series.

– MJ in life dissapointed me, in the same way Tiger Woods has. Not for their personal failings, rather for their decidly strictly financial outcomes they have so vigoursily persued. MJ’s famous quote about “Republican’s buy shoes too” as his justification for not wanting to wade into issues was so perfect

– But they both could do great jobs as advocates for many injustices in society.

– Muhummad Ali as an example, his principaled, not political stance about why as a Black American, he refused to go to war, becoming an antiwar and civil rights hero. Imagine the Supreme Court reversed a decision, based on Ali’s 4 year advocacy.

– Ali: “It has been said that I have two alternatives,” . “Either go to jail or go to the army. But I would like to say that there is another alternative. And that alternative, that alternative is justice. And if justice prevails, I will neither go to the army, nor will I go to jail.” Ali was right, and justice won.

– Anyway, there were too parts to this post.

– First, Professional athletes today are “owned” by the corporations that employ them. But Tiger and MJ in particular, they are as powerful and could make the same kinds of impact of Ali to make changes.

– Second,: Pro sports are never just about watching some people compete at a sport. They also emotionally invest in a story, one that’s unfolding unpredictably as we watch. And fans of sports invest themselves into that story the same way fans of TV shows or comics series do. They watch every game and discuss every play; they analyze and speculate and invent theories; they listen to other people analyze on TV and radio and podcasts; they participate in fantasy sports, a sports fan’s equivalent of writing fanfic. Developing an attachment to a big story produces the same thing that religion or cultural tradition gives: a sense of belonging, of having a place, of moving through time in a way that’s exciting, interesting, and grounding.

– Here’s the link to the article

https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/5/19/21262308/the-last-dance-michael-jordan-espn-bulls-basketball

– End of random ramblings…

N64

OriginalPouzar: Chris Johnston is saying the front runners are currently Columbus and Vegas.

I think they would like to keep it in one country if at all possible to avoid border issues when teams “move on”.

Las Vegas (Clark County) – 73 new cases today
Columbus (Franklin County) 132 new cases today

By comparison Edmonton had 1 case today coming off of 3 days with no cases. But the NHL is always about what develops the US audience, so expecting all the games in the US.

OriginalPouzar

N64: Would be surprised if any playoff sites are in Canada, but for anyone who does not know:

Edmonton (Health Zone) – 1 new case in the last 4 days
Vancouver (Coastal Health Zone) – 4 new cases in last 2 days
Pittsburgh (Allegheny County) – 17 new cases today
Las Vegas (Clark County) – 73 new cases today

Chris Johnston is saying the front runners are currently Columbus and Vegas.

I think they would like to keep it in one country if at all possible to avoid border issues when teams “move on”.

Reja

OriginalPouzar: I also don’t think that Rangers would make that trade (unless the Oilers prospect going back was Samorukov level or better) but that blog certainly doesn’t throw cold water on it – the writer’s opinion is that Gorton wouldn’t go for it – while I agree with that opinion, it doesn’t mean anything (not based on anything resembling inside information).

I still believe Jesse goes to the Hurricanes on draft day.

Material Elvis

Harpers Hair: First I have to eat the lobsters.

It’s lobster risotto? Daaayum. Quit holding out on us.

Material Elvis

OriginalPouzar: When did Broberg audition for the Oilers?I don’t think he was even at training camp last year?

‘Oilers’ is Swedish for Skellefteå. I thought that was common knowledge.

OriginalPouzar

Harpers Hair: I have to say I agree with him.

Makes no sense to give up a first round pick to acquire Puljujarvi.

Other teams who have to dump cap would likely offer a plug and play option rather than a “suspect”.

I also don’t think that Rangers would make that trade (unless the Oilers prospect going back was Samorukov level or better) but that blog certainly doesn’t throw cold water on it – the writer’s opinion is that Gorton wouldn’t go for it – while I agree with that opinion, it doesn’t mean anything (not based on anything resembling inside information).

N64

OriginalPouzar:
Ryan Rishaug

@TSNRyanRishaug
Biggest issue with Canadian border is the mandatory 14 day quarantine for any US team coming up to a hub city to begin games. Having to do this would potentially be a deal breaker for NHL coming to Canada.However, OEG is confident that a solution may be coming.Quote below

Quote from Tim Shipton of OEG essentially saying that the border and 14 day quarantine is a subject of discussion but they don’t think it will be a barrier to Edmonton or a Canadian team being a host city hub.

Shipton also says he believes they can have the required testing and not take away from public access

Training camp in Canada during the 14 day period is one solution. The special arrangement that might arise is moving a bubble started in a US training camp by air.

But I think that’s a red herring. They will likely start all playoffs in the US given that they will end there.

OriginalPouzar

hunter1909: Broberg looked excellent while auditioning for the Oilers. Nothing to suggest he cannot provide 1st class offence from the defence; other than opinions from bored lazy eastern Oilers haters in the media and Lowetide’s resident chicken little posters.

When did Broberg audition for the Oilers? I don’t think he was even at training camp last year?

N64

OriginalPouzar:
I guess my post on the border remaining closed for another month is in perpetual moderation but, in addition:

As per Chris Johnston, Daly has said he hopes this “will not materially affect the resumption of play timelines we are currently contemplating”.

I think the NHL is contemplating their “stage 2” commencing prior to June 21 which would include getting players back to their team cities and using team facilities.

Would be surprised if any playoff sites are in Canada, but for anyone who does not know:

Edmonton (Health Zone) – 1 new case in the last 4 days
Vancouver (Coastal Health Zone) – 4 new cases in last 2 days
Pittsburgh (Allegheny County) – 17 new cases today
Las Vegas (Clark County) – 73 new cases today

London Jon

apologies if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure your claim was Bouchard vs Rafferty points over 5 years.

I’m too tech poor to be able to search for the post, but maybe another poster can help us here?

If the claim was Bouchard 21-26 va Rafferty 25-30 then it’s fair to stick to that (or close to it) I think.

Given the length of time, risks, potential quantum of bet etc we could put a yearly cap on the bet if you like, but it feels right to keep the basics of the bet to the original statement debated…

OriginalPouzar

Ryan Rishaug

@TSNRyanRishaug
Biggest issue with Canadian border is the mandatory 14 day quarantine for any US team coming up to a hub city to begin games. Having to do this would potentially be a deal breaker for NHL coming to Canada. However, OEG is confident that a solution may be coming. Quote below

Quote from Tim Shipton of OEG essentially saying that the border and 14 day quarantine is a subject of discussion but they don’t think it will be a barrier to Edmonton or a Canadian team being a host city hub.

Shipton also says he believes they can have the required testing and not take away from public access

London Jon

Harpers Hair: I’d be prepared to go $10 per point for the next full season.

A five year bet is silly because injury, trades and so on can dramatically change things.

If Bouchard gets a concussion or a serious back injury, you would be hooped.

I suggested 5 years as you were very confident Rafferty would outscore Bouchard over 5 years.

I see your thinking here as the first year is, of course, more attractive to you as Rafferty is 25 now and Bouchard is only 20. For us to really be sticking to your assertion it should be over 5 years as per your claim.

I’m happy to shift one year towards your favour and to go with 4 years and a gentleman’s agreement that if one player gets a serious injury the other players scoring is also halted. A little like the age old Tour de France agreement that you don’t attack the Yellow Jersey rider when he has a fall or a puncture.

London Jon

$200 each goes into escrow, with a trusted Lowetider, straight away so that the charity still gets that even if one party bails on the agreement

Harpers Hair

London Jon:
Seems to me like good, wholesome fun to put some (charitable) money where our mouths are and to add some spice to watching how the two players develop over the next few years.

You seem very confident that EB is overrated and that Rafferty will outscore him over the next 5 years. Let’s back it up with some charitable giving to prove that we aren’t just throwing statements out to get people’s backs up.

Each year we settle up based on that years point differential so it isn’t too painful for anyone in any given year

I’d be prepared to go $10 per point for the next full season.

A five year bet is silly because injury, trades and so on can dramatically change things.

If Bouchard gets a concussion or a serious back injury, you would be hooped.

Reja

Harpers Hair: Nah….I’m too old.

I’ll spot you the first $10 if your short of cash.

London Jon

Seems to me like good, wholesome fun to put some (charitable) money where our mouths are and to add some spice to watching how the two players develop over the next few years.

You seem very confident that EB is overrated and that Rafferty will outscore him over the next 5 years. Let’s back it up with some charitable giving to prove that we aren’t just throwing statements out to get people’s backs up.

Each year we settle up based on that years point differential so it isn’t too painful for anyone in any given year

London Jon

Harpers Hair: Nah….I’m too old.

Too old for what? $10 a point then, loser donates to a charity of the winners choice