Borden Chantry

by Lowetide
Evan Bouchard photo by Mark Williams

My Grandpa loved Louis L’Amour novels. His entire bedroom was filled with them, and short stories about the west. He was a working man, farmed near Neilburg, Saskatchewan. He used to sit in his house on Saturday nights when I was a kid (this was in Maple Ridge, everyone moved to the coast, where I was born, but they were all farmers), drink a few beers and express real sorrow for not going to the war in 1939. The government kept him home to farm and supply milk and food for the war effort. I remember my Dad trying to console him while they played cards, about a time in their lives that by that time was 25 years past. Imagine.

Grandpa was a complicated man, I didn’t connect with him on many levels, and the written words of Louis L’Amour have not found a place in my heart through this day.

He did love things no one else in my world valued, like the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra and Harry James trumpet music. My world was filled with the music on the radio, country mostly, and the stuff my Mom listened to as a teenager and young adult (Elvis, Roy Orbison, Little Richard).

Me? I liked Burl Ives and then the Monkees, but I was influenced by everyone. Including Harry James, and probably Louis too somewhere along the way.

THE ATHLETIC!

CERTAIN OILERS (17)

This group is down one from last week (Josh Archibald) and we’ll see about Kris Russell but it sounded like the issue there was short term. I’m still sussing out the intel, but based on what Spec wrote last night Ken Holland is not only a helluva vacuum salesman but went two out of three on the Dad “what do you want from life?” talk with a trio of veterans.

Things to watch for: Two healthy goalies from this list, the four available blue also healthy, and of course the likely Hyman-McDavid and Draisaitl-Yamamoto pairs. Personally I’d run JP with 97 and Nuge with Leon, but we’ll see.

Oh, and one thing my Grandpa did was look for patterns. He kept track of the weather on his farm (this was after everyone moved back to Saskatchewan) and planned his days based on whatever the hell his knee, last year’s records and the Farmer’s Almanac were telling him.

Ken Holland reminded me of him this week, when he started talking about a 37-year old (Chris Chelios) he acquired from the Chicago Blackhawks a couple of decades back, and Duncan Keith repeating the pattern.

Hopefully the Farmer’s Almanac and the NHL Guide and Record Book got their patterns straight.

UNCERTAIN OILERS (12)

Five forwards likely from this group and suddenly Archibald appears to be the odd man out. That puts Colton Sceviour in a good spot, and I think we can assume Devin Shore is in if only for a penalty killing role.

Ryan McLeod should be on the team but will need to be productive. I just can’t see the team sending that kind of speed back to Bakersfield, he’s a creator of chaos and is first to pucks always. That leaves Turris and one of Benson or Perlini as the final addition.

On defense, Koekkoek has the inside track if he shows well in preseason. Skinner is suddenly a goalie who could play 10-15 games or more, if required, due to the news from yesterday.

A quick note on Archibald. He has the right to decline the vaccine, and the Oilers have the right to keep him from playing by placing him on the suspended list. He will have made a few million during his career so far, and perhaps this is the best time to step away, for one year or longer. Mike Green didn’t return to the bubble, Archibald has the option to remain unvaccinated. The world is no doubt coming at him quickly, it isn’t clear to me when the reality of his situation clicked in. Based on what the NHL and NHLPA were saying not so long ago, it was at least possible a player could see himself playing in the NHL with only a daily test.

My Dad always told me you had to choose the hill to die on. That’s what we may have here. Society is making choices for the greater good, and these moments are going to occur across many industries. Hockey is famous and public, thus Archibald is in the news.

DISTANT BELLS (33)

If I did this list correctly, and let’s pretend I did, no one from this list will make the opening night roster. The strongest candidates are Konovalov (all goalies move up now), Broberg (he’s fast but needs some time according to Mike Zanier and others) and Raphael Lavoie (he needs to keep those feet moving).

It’s an interesting group. Today, you would do well to check on all the players, making sure they’re on the ice and moving freely. Especially the goalies.

CHIARELLI IN ST. LOUIS

Peter Chiarelli was hired in a prominent role by the St. Louis Blues yesterday, and of course Oilers fans had reactions that were understandably strong. As a Bruins fan, I thought Chiarelli would come to Edmonton, make some enormous moves and eventually bring Stanley to Edmonton.

That didn’t happen.

Ken Holland was his replacement, and at this point has attempted to handle the issues in a similar fashion. Oh, he didn’t trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson and he didn’t trade 16 and 33 for Griffin Reinhart. However, the price of Andreas Athanasiou and Duncan Keith, if we’re honest, were substantial and will/could be remembered as major steps back for the organization’s assets.

As for Chiarelli, that Stanley Cup ring from Boston still shines and NHL owners/managers value it highly. I don’t know that he’ll be a GM again, but it’s possible.

The Oilers don’t value analytics like the Tampa Bay Lightning, or the Carolina Hurricanes. You’d like to see the organization firing on all pistons during some of the McDavid years, but that appears to be a phone call that will go unanswered. The analytics will arrive with the next lottery pick in Edmonton, I expect.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A big show today, TSN1260, beginning at 10. The dominant subject will be Oilers camp, we’ll have reports from the rink all morning. We’ll also have a preview of the NFL Week 3 game between Panthers and Titans tonight. Phil Berna, Men’s Captain for the Canadian Rugby team will talk about Rugby 7’s coming to Edmonton this weekend. Mike House from the Stollery will also join us to talk about the Mighty Millions Lottery who are coming up on a big deadline. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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Funny Bissonness

Hockey is back and I’m so excited! We’ve had a lot of change this year, and some spots are still up in the air. We made some great moves, and some wild ones too. It’s gonna look different and it’s gonna be fun.

I’m now fully on board with all the greybeards too. Old guys are fun to cheer for. Who doesn’t want to see each one of Mike Smith’s eleven children hoist (or sit in) the cup?

High scoring games! More goals for and against. We’re gonna be the most entertaining team in the NHL by far (already were too).

Let’s goooo

OriginalPouzar

Rene Fasel’s last day as IIHF president – Does Nicholson leave the Oilers org soon?

YKOil

I wonder if there could be a home for Archibald in the Metropolitan division? No Canadian teams so cross border quarantine would be as minimal as it gets.

Only spit-ballin’ here. I know he is a ‘marginal 3rd/ decent 4th’ line guy at best so no one will be knocking down the door for him.

I predict he gets through training camp and as much of the pre-season as possible and then goes south to get the J&J shot.

leadfarmer

Cal Petersen signs 5 mil per x 3 years
I know Holland wants to improve goalering but it won’t come cheap

YKOil

Next year’s UFA pool is pretty slim, basically Kuemper and Fleury; Georgiev if looking at RFA’s. Not a fan of Korpisalo, guy has one good year in three and is sub .900 for half of his career – not a fan.

I am going with Lowetide here, our 1st this year is a goner for goaltending.

Harpers Hair

Hoping not to derail today’s thread but since I have not weighed in on the vaccinations debate any, if at all I just want to pass along a personal story about how this situation is playing out in BC right now.

Thanks to our wonderful “free” public health care system, I have been waiting for hip replacement surgery for SIX YEARS in considerable pain the whole time. I finally was booked for surgery on August 30 but that was subsequently delayed due to Covid until October 4th.

I just got a call from the hospital informing me the surgery is being indefinitely postponed because Nanaimo hospital is accepting patients who are being flown to the Island from Northern BC and ALBERTA where vaccination rates are much lower.

The nice lady who called me suggested this could last for months and is being exacerbated by medical staff who refuse to get vaccinated and are then suspended from work.

Also worth noting that almost 80% of hospital admissions are unvaccinated.

Thanks.

JOFA

I hope you get a call soon HH. Nobody should have to wait that long.

Darth Tu

Mate, that’s absolutely terrible. The fact you were finally approaching the finish line and it’s been delayed even further by people exercising their “freedom to choose” during a pandemic is beyond infuriating.

I know I rib you a bit on here about Canucks related things occasionally , but I genuinely wish you well. Here’s to your future surgically repaired hip and many more years of you calling us out when we get a bit over excited about prospects on our end.

Harpers Hair

There is a saying in BC that you won’t get joint replacement surgery until you’re suicidal.

All the while the NDP government has moved to shut down any private clinics who could perform the surgery because they think we should all suffer equally.

Slapshot

Go to Thailand. Great medical care at a cost that is affordable to anyone who can live where you are located 🙂

I lived in Bangkok. The medical expertize is equivalent to what we have in Canada.

fishman

That is truly awful as no one should have to wait 6 years for a hip or knee! When our hospital wards and ICU beds are over capacity with “unvaccinated” covid patients and on verge of asking doctors to start using triage protocols, there are hospital medical staff refusing to get vaccinated????? In Alberta the Provincial Medical Dept ( I know wrong term) has had to write letters to 7 doctors telling them to stop promoting anti covid/ anti vax bullshit! What planet do these people come from! We are talking life and death! But of course our individual rights are more important. Unreal….

Harpers Hair

The President of the BC Nurses Union just resigned because she would not mandate that nurses get vaccinated.

I’ve heard at some hospitals as many as 20% are refusing vaccines so this is going to get much worse.

jtblack

Some poeple are very principled whether u agree with their stance or not

Reja

If you were in the States with proper coverage this procedure would have been done years ago. Good luck and hang in there maybe the Canucks with Demko leading the way squeaks in and they make a run. If you were a Flames fan than things would be different and there would be No Soup for You!!!

Harpers Hair

What makes me sad is there are thousands of people who got the same call today and many of them are far worse off and their lives are in danger if they don’t get surgery.

A very good friend had a stroke recently and if there is a recurrence there will be no room for him in hospital and he will die because of the ignorance of others.

rich tm

No one should have to go thru something like this HH. Very sorry to see this and hope that this will not continue.

Genjutsu

I hope you get the help you need soon.

Living in pain like that is not something I’d wish on anybody.

Hopefully you and others in similar situations can get the care the need as soon as possible.

flyfish1168

Joint pain like the hip is debilitating. Sorry to hear this HH. I hope the pain doesn’t keep you up at night.

Ice Sage

Brutal.
An orthopaedic surgeon friend of mine has been super-busy for the last 2 years, with the exception of the initial wave shut-down, and their group have been getting bulks of funding for extra OR time to get caught up… I guess the demand is just so high with us aging boomers.
Anyhow they also told me of a ‘province-wide registry’ for those who can travel (and aren’t devoted to their local orthopod) to get the procedure elsewhere – had a few patients get fast-tracked to lower mainland hospitals. Worth asking about.

Bank Shot

Where is Kris Russell at?

Kert

I think Holland mentioned he hurt his neck and should be joining the team in about a week.

ChupaCabra

True fact: Borden Chantry is Brogan Rafferty’s great uncle.

Side

So Eichel was stripped of his captaincy after failing his physical.

As much flak as the Oilers got over years (deservedly), at least they are not as bad as of an organization as the Sabres.

Could you imagine if after McDavid had his knee injury, the Oilers wanted to control his treatment and disagreed with McDavid’s choice of treatment to the point where McDavid demanded a trade?

Yikes. I would be feeling as bad as OEL does after doing some windsprints.

Reja

The way they handled Souray was brutal.

defmn

Reid Wilkins
@ReidWilkins
·
This seems a little ambiguous to me. What does ‘up to speed’ mean exactly on the 1st day of TC?

44m
Dave Tippett says Archibald just came out of a 14-day quarantine and won’t be with the main group until he’s up to speed.

defmn

No edit button. The part about it being ambiguous is me commenting on Wilkins’ tweet.

OriginalPouzar

Generally, after two weeks of doing nothing in quarantine, players have needed a few days of work to get ready to join the team for full sessions.

Darth Tu

If OEL is the bar for speed on day one of TC…..

GordieHoweHatTrick

Was the 14 d quarantine because he was out of the country or…?

flyfish1168

The worst part is you need to trust him to do the right things from catching the virus. I’m not so sure of that at this point.

jtblack

That means blackballed? Segregated?

Fans often talk about Character in players. To me Archibald has Character. Tremendoua character for his reasons. And for that he may not play much or at all this year.

They often glorify “the road less travelled”… but not when it doesn’t fir the narrative. You take the road most travelled without questions….. or u will lose your job

pts2pndr

Doing the right thing is not always easy! Good character is in doing what is best for the overall good . Doing nothing that would possibly help your community for self interest is not good character !

ArmchairGM

Apropos to the Leavins article at the Cult today about young Brad Holland, I happened to be on naturastattrick.com just now and filtered by season (2019-20 – 2020-21), state (5v5), position (forwards) and TOI (>500:00) and then sorted by iHDCF/60 (individual high danger corsi for per sixty) and lo and behold, guess who shows up in the top-10? Hyman (#5) and Foegele (#8). Notable Oilers in the top-100: McDavid (#17), Puljujarvi (#20), Yamamoto (#44) and Kassian (#90). There are 415 players on the list, or 13.4 forwards per team. The Oilers now have 6 players in the top quartile in this metric… this is going to be a tough team to play against.

defmn

Yeah, but Bear is a 1st pairing dman and Foegele is a 3rd line winger. ;

(Just teasing.)

Twenty games into the season – if there are no significant injuries – we should know how astute Holland’s moves were this past summer.

Until then we are just amusing ourselves with conjecture.

OriginalPouzar

DNB advising that Archie just came out of quarantine which is why he wasn’t skating today (per Tip).

defmn

Just out of curiosity is this the new permanent look of the comments section or is there further work in progress to return to the former format?

Thanks.

Ryan

It’s a Godaddy issue. There’s nothing I can do for now.

defmn

Thanks. I was just wondering and just so you know I think we all appreciate everything you do to keep the doors open around here.

Ryan

Most of the current issues are with Godaddy, so that’s LT himself spending time and money on the phone with tech support.

Unfortunately, Godaddy made some security changes that kiboshed the use of the comment plug-in we all had adjusted to.

I’m not sure if it’s coming back unless I move the site to a new host.

The challenge is that it’s hard to forecast hosting costs. I’ve looked at Fullhost and maybe they estimate their $60 per month a full plus plan will work…

But when the server starts overloading, the only solution is to keep moving up the hosting plan ladder until it doesn’t.

defmn

Thanks for the further explanation. Please let the board know if money is needed to fix the problem.

Oilerguy

No worries LT and yourself will get it figured I have no doubt.

leadfarmer
defmn

Ouch. Even for a vet who doesn’t put much stock in TC that is not a good look.

Reja

Who was it he blew up in the corner real good then Kassian jumped in and went ape shit on OEL this is back in 16-17 season in Phoenix.

PennersPancakes

OEL took a questionable hit on Hendricks on an icing call. Kassian immediately puts him down, then knocks Dculair back before Doan finally wrestles him down. Fun note Letestu also “fought” Hanzal. Frodo always was my favorite hobbit.

Harpers Hair

JFresh (@JFreshHockey) Tweeted:
remember that there’s no context on this clip. still rooting for him to turn it around.

The context is Green bag skates his players 3 times on the opening day of camp.

This was OEL’s 3rd bag skate in a row and he was out of gas.

It’s not uncommon for players to puke their guts out during these skates.

Cassandra

That might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. What kind of stupid coaching is that?

Anyway, the other guys were all together in a line.

Harpers Hair

They may not have all been on their 3rd go.

Just heard Conor Garland who puked while skating that it is the most difficult thing he has ever faced in a training camp.

Harpers Hair

The bag skates come AFTER a 100 minute practise.

The team vets have learned to game the system by being in cruise control during practise.

Cassandra

This is a much watch video.

Side

Yeah but just think of all of the mentorship he will provide! I’m sure his fellow swedes will appreciate the mentorship coming from OEL inbetween him vomiting on the bench from exhaustion!

Darth Tu

Oh god. I haven’t laughed so much in a long time.

Question for the Vancouver experts, is OEL actually that slow, or are the rest of the Canucks skating as fast as McDavid? 😀

defmn

I wonder if Benning is having heart palpitations watching this live.

Darth Tu

Who’s heart rate is faster:

a) OEL
b) Benning
c) HH

GordieHoweHatTrick

Don’t you need to have a heart to have a heart rate? 😉

Kert

d) Demko, as he frantically researches every RW’s breakaway tendencies.

OriginalPouzar

Per Gregor:

Afternoon session:
RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto
Foegele-Ryan-Kassian
Benson-McLeod-Marody
Hamblin-Cracknell-Griffith
Dagon-Soderlund-Englot/Kambeitz

Nurse-Barrie
Broberg-Berglund
Niemelainen-Kesselring
Wanner

Koskinen, Konovalov, Rodrigue. #Oilers

OriginalPouzar

Also, per Gregor:

Benson noticeably quicker. The battle for 4th LW spot should be competitive between him, Perlini and Shore. #Oilers

GordieHoweHatTrick

Awesome!

Litke 94

Good to hear about Benson. His foot speed was always a bit of a concern, but if he is quicker, that will make a world of difference.

Cassandra

Love to see Benson–Mcleod–Marody together. Let them face off against Perlini–Shore–Turris. That would be must watch OP TV.

OriginalPouzar

Of course, I do remember the training camp when we were told Lucic looked quicker….

jtblack

Or when Eberle got the shootong coach ….

Reja

Where’s Perlini he’s my long shot pick for opening day?

OriginalPouzar

Long shot pick? You’ve got him on the first line, don’t you?

He played with Shore and Turris today.

He’s in great shape from reports and is skating well (although skating has never been his issue).

Reja

Wouldn’t that be something if he went on a heater and potted 20 goals. You would think he’s motivated after seeing how the other half lives. Hyman Connor and Perlini end up being the highest scoring line in the league. We sure are due for some pleasant surprises and I’m starting to get really pumped up for the first game.

OriginalPouzar

— Perlini can really skate. His speed and size was very noticeable. The knock on him was his on-ice vision. Impossible to say if that improved watching drills and some offensive zone drills. But his speed and shot stood out to me.

Per Gregor

godot10

BroBerglund, BroBerglund!

Over Koekkoeked. Ceci you later.

Reja

He does score some nice goals and he skates like the wind. His hands seem alright I wonder why he totally lost his confidence in Chicago. Tippett does know him so if he can get this kid motor going I see him getting a good look with Connor and Hyman.

dustrock

https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/1441083428892405771?s=20

Just a reminder than Connor McDavid is more than human

GordieHoweHatTrick

Demi-Gord ?

Gerta Rauss

I wonder if bringing in a goalie on a PTO is something the Oilers would consider. There is zero risk/cost, they don’t have to worry about waivers or the salary cap, and if injury or illness or ineffective play occurs, the guy is available and will have gone through training camp

Just a thought

defmn

Holland said ‘no’ yesterday in his media availability.

godot10

These are “show me” years for Skinner and Konovalev. Not the right year to bring in a PTO goaltender. The opportunity should be afforded to Skinner and Konovalev.

Darth Tu

Archibald not on the skater’s list this afternoon (per Rishaug)

https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/1441084935998033928?s=20

RENNAVATE

He f’d around and found out.

flyfish1168

We need to play it safe. Covid on a team will kill any chance of a good run. Archie should be told NOW that he is not welcomed on the team

GordieHoweHatTrick

I think KH is being as polite as he can about giving him the message….and hoping he changes his mind!

Brantford Boy

On a completely unrelated hockey topic… for you Prairie/Farm boys that might be used to it… I went outside last night in the dark and heard this about 20 feet away from me… I won’t lie, it got my heart pumping… apparently quite rare in BC… what an awful sound!
​https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uSM9h8G2om0

McSorley33

Great article LT.

One minor point- Panthers are playing the Texans tonight.

Reja

With Earl Campbell and Bum Phillips

Ice Sage

If only there was a groundbreaking QB who’d played in both Oiler towns…

dustrock

Will Foegele play 2nd line when Drai plays with McDavid?

JOFA

I wouldn’t mind seeing that😊

Darth Tu

Most likely. Or also heaven forbid, when there’s injury issues.

Brantford Boy

Can I assume you mean:
Draisaitl-McDavid-JP
Foegele-Nuge-Hyman

I’ve posted this once previously, but come playoff time if everything is “clicking” I wouldn’t mind seeing this (especially the 2nd line, what a load for the opposition):
Foegele-McDavid-JP
Hyman-Draisaitl-Kassian

Which would probably make a 3rd line of:
Benson-Nuge-Yamamoto

Let the down votes begin… oh wait…

godot10

If the OIlers want to win in the playoffs, the best spot for Kassian is the pressbox.

flyfish1168

Best on a 4th line hitting everything that moves.

godot10

He would get penalties. And he can’t PK. So the safest place is the front row of the pressbox.

ArmchairGM

Uh, Godot… if he takes penalties, why would it matter if he can PK or not? He’ll be in the penalty box, not killing the penalty

godot10

4th line players shouldn’t take dumb penalties. And 4th line players should be able to kill a penalty. Kassian fails on both counts.

flyfish1168

Godot10 your hatred for certain players runs deep. Time to release this hatred and give them credit that they can learn to keep from going to the Darkside.

OriginalPouzar

I anticipate that Godot is thrilled with the Barrie re-signing, I mean, he will be stealing assists from JP and Yamamoto all season long – keeping their next contracts lower.

godot10

It isn’t hatred if..er…since I am right. It is just objective reality. It isn’t personal. It is just the “business” of wanting “my” team to win.

flyfish1168

Godot10, lol, Judging yourself and being objective. OK

OriginalPouzar

Kailer should be the RW when they load up – in my opinion.

Hyman/Nuge/Jesse as their 2nd.

ArmchairGM

I’d like to see Yamamoto with McDavid in any case. I think it’ll work better to run Yamamoto opposite Hyman and Puljujarvi opposite Nuge. Complimentary skillsets.

winchester

It has been interesting to hear all the player updates now that camp has started. Obviously Holland had a lot of information through the summer and I can better understand his actions.

Im very curious on Klefbom. Last I heard was last year as we discussed if hed be back r not, LTIR, maybe back for playoffs etc. What has changed or been updated? Are we assuming hes out again all year?

OriginalPouzar

There was never any indication from the org that he might be back for the playoffs – sure, I guess that could happen but all the org said was that its unlikely that he plays this season.

winchester

Please, Please can we limit all the talk on that Covid guy? He is stealing all the headlines and absolutely stomped the Blog yesterday.

Durag

Agreed. We had 6 guys competing for a 4th line winger position. One guy removed himself from competition. C’est la vie.

OriginalPouzar

Archie wasn’t competing for a spot, he was a lock.

Melman

Kenny has got more dad patience than I do. I’d be stuck at: “let me get this straight we protected you from Seattle, amd now you don’t want to get vaccinated! It’s time to move out son.”

Randle McMurphy

“planned his days based on whatever the hell his knee, last year’s records and the Farmer’s Almanac were telling him.”

#Grampalytics

Your prose are sometimes superlative. Great piece this morning.

hunter1909

Here is the news everyone is waiting for!!

http://www.oilersdeathmarch.com/marches/2021-22

UPDATE: Hopefully the tech side gets it working to extend the upcoming (too fast)deadline – lol

Brantford Boy

Great post LT… really enjoyed your Grandfathers segment! Thanks for sharing… cheers!

My Grandfather (who did go overseas) would sit at the dinner table, and on special occasions (Christmas etc.), look at the table full of food that my Grandmother had prepared, look at me and simply say in his French accent “Good country eh”… enough said Grandpa, I know.

Randle McMurphy

My family didn’t have two nickels to rub together…..but when we gathered for a Christmas or thanksgiving feast, my father (seated at the head of the table) would ask loudly “I wonder what the poor people are eating tonight!”

Harpers Hair

Why do people always want to rub their nickels together.?

defmn

To make sure they are still there.

Randle McMurphy

First things first. Thank God for Moms. (Elvis, Roy Orbison, Little Richard).

Randle McMurphy

Thank God for the greatest generation.

Thank God for farmers.

Thank God for eclectic mixes.

OriginalPouzar

Archibald not skating today – I think Holland was speaking some lip service yesterday and there is no intent to have Archie join the team unless he gets vaccinated. I think he’ll be waived and assigned (assuming he clears).

If the org was going to let him join the team pursuant to the agreed upon protocols, why wouldn’t he be there now?

Maybe they can work out a trade to a US team where he would only miss a handful of games as opposed to almost half – I doubt it though.

JOFA

Who said he wasn’t skating?

OriginalPouzar

Gregor, DNB, Wilkins, etc.

dustrock

Not trying to fan any flames here, but will just comment that current training camp lines has Bear skating with Pesce on Carolina’s top pairing. Mostly mentioning this for the crowd who kept saying Bear wasn’t a top pairing d-man. Early days but I will watch his career with great interest.

PennersPancakes

Kind of how like Caggs and Maroon were first line wingers? Or how Fayne was a top pairing defender. I too will watch with great interest but usage doesnt necessarily equate with value. Interesting Carolina is trying Pesce – Bear when theyre both righties.

Would have expected something along the lines of

Slavin – Pesce
Skjei – Deangelo/Bear

Unless they want to split up Slavin and Pesce to have a more rounded top 4.

dustrock

Slavin, not Pesce. I’m an idiot. I meant Slavin-Bear.

PennersPancakes

Agh that makes more sense. Im cheering for him he has a great story, hopefully he can click with Slavin and carve out a decent next contract.

Melman

I hope he does well and will continue to cheer for him. Having said that, given Barrie and Bouch have 2 of the 3 spots, at this stage in their careers Ceci is likely the lower risk bet. With Bouch going into his first full year it makes sense. Plus, I think we’re going to rather like Foegle

defmn

If Bear is a top pair dman because he plays with Pesce then I assume Barrie is also a top pairing dman because he plays with Nurse?

Not trying to fan any flames here but you see how this looks. Was Bergreon a top pairing dman when he played with Pronger? Coaches look for guys that complement each other’s style as a pair. Kassian is not a first line guy even when he plays beside McDavid.

ArmchairGM

Kassian isn’t a first line player even when he plays with McDavid? I guess I depends on how you define that, but he certainly scores like one. Over the past 3 seasons he has spent nearly 1200 minutes with McDavid at 5v5 and has posted 1.01 G/60 (35th in the NHL) and 2.22 P/60 (43rd in the NHL).

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8475178

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20182019&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=y&team=ALL&pos=S&loc=B&toi=500&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

ArmchairGM

Kassian isn’t a first line player even when he plays with McDavid? I guess I depends on how you define that, but he certainly scores like one. Over the past 3 seasons he has spent nearly 1200 minutes with McDavid at 5v5 and has posted 1.01 G/60 (35th in the NHL) and 2.22 P/60 (43rd in the NHL).

defmn

Yeah, I guess you are right. It depends on how you define that.

Kassian is not a first line player imo. He can play up for stretches with strong line mates just like Bear can play up with a strong partner.

In other words they can complement guys who are first liners in a league where the cap requires compromises.

Coilers2021

Lordy, if I were Holland I would be calling up St Louis’ direct line to Chiarelli and convince him to trade the Oil Binnington,Parayko, a 1st, heaps of salary retained, for Archibald and a 4th. That’s the sort of juicy steak Chiarelli likes to dig in to.

One can dream.

dustrock

Ceci for Tarasenko? Buh gawd, that’s Chia’s music

McSorley33

I think Holland and PC would keep finding their lines would be busy….both trying to get a hold of each other.

OriginalPouzar

“A quick note on Archibald. He has the right to decline the vaccine, and the Oilers have the right to keep him from playing by placing him on the suspended list.”

I don’t think this is quite right. The Oilers can certainly not invite him to camp but they can’t just suspend him outright. They can not invite him to camp, expose him to waivers and assign him if he clears, however, they can only suspend him when he’s not able to participate in games and team events due to being unvaccinated.

Via the agreed upon protocols between the NHL and NHLPA, unvaccinated players are permitted to play – they are permitted to come to camp and play games. The Oilers cannot suspend Josh Archibald for not being vaccinated. They can suspend him once the season starts and they start travelling to the US and back and his vaccination status affects his ability to be with the team.

OriginalPouzar

I am not one that will bash the Keith acquisition like many do – the trade was not good but I think the player will improve the team this season (improvement on 2LD from last year). At the same time, it simply cannot be compared to Holland’s acquisition of Chellios. Keith can still play at the NHL level, likely in the 2nd pairing, but he’s not the elite player he once was. Chellios won a Norris trophy after Holland acquired him – the Keith acquisition is not the same.

Eh Team

We are hoping Keith and Ceci are capable of playing second pair but that’s not a given. Meanwhile Bear is skating with Slavin on the Hurricanes first pair.

That’s Oiler player evaluation for you.

PennersPancakes

Remember how everyone talks about sample size when dozens of games and hundreds of minutes is still low yet here we are proclaiming Holland to be dead wrong about Bear a couple hours into day 1 of training camp.

If thats oilers player evaluation how come no other teams made a single comment about Bear being available. I didnt hear any fan base say oh damn we should have beaten that. Not even Flames fans who love to shit on the Oilers. Previous management has a history of undervaluing players, current fanbase has a history of overvaluing players.

OriginalPouzar

Bear started 2021 training camp as 1RD as well – he started the season as 1RD – he lost the job to Barrie and played 3RD for most of the season.

Ceci did well as 2RD, paired with a roaming Matheson last season and he has two straight seasons of splendid GA/60 numbers. The Oilers were looking for a 2LD all last season, through the playoffs – never had one. Keith is highly likely to be better than what was 2LD last season.

Where Brindamour lines Bear up for day 1 of training camp is meaningless.

OriginalPouzar

Jason Gregor
@JasonGregor
·
2m
Morning session:
Hyman-McDavid-Puljujarvi
Perlini-Shore-Turris
Esposito-Malone-Sceviour
Brosseau-Gennaro-Lavoie
Rybinski/Petrovic-Tullio-Bourgault

Koekkoek-Bouchard
Lagesson-Ceci
Kemp, Kubicek,Kaldis rotating.

Smith, Skinner,Kruger #Oilers

—————–

I’ll be very curious to see who Benson lines up with in the 2nd session – here is hoping its with some established NHL players (unlike Lavoie here) – Marody as well.

dessert1111

Looks like Lagesson is a placeholder for Keith. Only mild surprise for me is Sceviour skating with an AHL line – but I guess Archie is in the NHL RW spot for now. The Shore line looks like the 5th line from here.

dustrock

Yeah, Lavoie getting the early “enjoy your brief look at NHL training camp, kid” line from Tipp.

TheGreatBigMac

Benson McLeod Marody!

JOFA

I arrived late to the party😉

JOFA

Benson-McLeod- Marody?

Darth Tu

This is all good signs. We’ll see what the afternoon brings, but this says to me that we’re finally going back to Nuge-Drai-Yamo.

I’m also happy that Kassian wasn’t getting a run out on the top line early – like some media seemed to be hinting at over the summer.

I’m very much looking forward to seeing who McLeod and Ryan get as line mates in the next session.

OriginalPouzar

No messing around – per Gregor Hyman/McDavid/Puljujarvi are together today.

jp

“Ken Holland was his replacement, and at this point has attempted to handle the issues in a similar fashion. Oh, he didn’t trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson and he didn’t trade 16 and 33 for Griffin Reinhart. However, the price of Andreas Athanasiou and Duncan Keith, if we’re honest, were substantial and will/could be remembered as major steps back for the organization’s assets.“

Two things:
1) Is there another way a manager could go in this situation that doesn’t involve trading young players/picks?

2) I guess we can agree that Caleb Jones and picks # 45, 52 and 80-something is a long way from Taylor Hall and picks # 16 and 33?

Ryan

I would suggest that the acquisition targets could be more the question than the strategy of trading picks. This topic has been beaten to death here, but there was the RFA qualifying price issue (even pre-covid) along with limitations to AA’s game. Several analytics models suggested he was very poor defensively which aligned with his -45 +/- and the eyeball test when he arrived. He had no interest in back checking. I would also wonder if he had an injury that was disclosed prior to the trade. Either way, the trade was a blunder albeit not of Chiarelli proportions.
As for Duncan Keith, paying assets to take on a contract with negative value speaks for itself.

jp

Ryan:
Yes, the quality of the trade targets remains open for debate. I agree with 31saves here though, that Holland has done pretty well to hold onto the most valuable picks and prospects while adding to the NHL club.

My pushback to LTs words is mostly a matter of degrees. Hall, pick #31 and pick #33 are all clearly more valuable assets than those sent away by Holland. IMO there’s a large gap between the Hall/Reinhart and Keith/AA moves.

Agree the AA thing has been talked to death, but will note again that aside from his -45 season he’s had a positive GF%rel in 4 of his 5 NHL seasons (or in 4 of 6 total years, if you prefer).

On Keith, there’s probably no point talking more about his game or his value until the season is well underway and we have a better idea how he’s performing compared to Jones, Graves and Leddy.

31saves

I think you could argue that Holland has done pretty well in keeping prospects and picks to develop, while fixing the team and doing his best to make a run when he can..

The first year Holland was here, he traded some picks, no prospects and acquired a potential top 6 winger and helpful defenseman. Nobody could have predicted what was to happen with COVID, but thats a decent use of assets for a team that looked poise to win a round or two.

A lot of his building has been through free agency and the draft. So far in his 2-3 years with the team he has moved out

two 2nd round picks
three 3rd round picks
two 4th round picks
Joel Persson
Ethan Bear
Caleb Jones.

In the grand scheme of things, that’s not a lot of future capital to put towards the current team. As for if those trades were worth it or not, that’s a separate argument, but trading three young D-man, when we currently still have multiple prospects bubbling under an established top 4, and 7 early-mid round picks is not nearly as much as you might think.

As for me, it would have been nice to have the seconds for Athanasiou, and the 4th from Green. I’ll always defend those moves, however, since at the time, they made a lot of sense and I think they would have worked out. Holland didn’t fall into the sunk-cost fallacy and let athanasiou walk, but thats a plus for him, not a negative IMO.

Ryan

Shortly after the Oilers traded two second round picks for AA, the Avalanche acquired Devon Toews for two seconds. Think about that.
Holland would have also been privy to Kelfbom’s shoulder issues during this entire time. Prior to that trade, the Avalanche acquired Burakovsky for a second and a third.

PennersPancakes

AA trade – February 24th 2020
Burakovsky trade – June 28th 2019
Toews trade – October 12th 2020

While on Washington Burakovsky had a career high of 38 points 4 years before his trade. Yes he would have been a good buy low candidate but he never cracked 30 goals let alone 20 before the trade. Hindsight. Also an offseason move.

Toews is a good player and I feel 2 2nds is low for him would have loved to make that trade instead but again also an offseason move and while he was good in New York he had 2 seasons of 48 games and 68 games, not truly established.

All 3 were bets, players with warts (AA) but skill, players lacking opportunity (Burakovsky), and players lacking history (Toews). Big difference is also AA being the only deadline trade.

Ryan

I don’t have time to dig up data, but I’ve looked at this before. Watching Washington, Burakovsky was buried on their depth chart, so looking at points/g is limited. He has a range of skills, however,
As for AA, he’s sort of like an Ethan Rifles Moreau that skates faster, but doesn’t backcheck. He can transport the puck and rifle shots at goalie pads, but he doesn’t backcheck and lacks skill to make pays in the offensive zone.

31saves

“Shortly afterward” is a bit disingenuous.
shortly afterward is approximately 8 months down the line, with a pandemic stoppage halting the regulars season, a bubble playoffs and entire offseason in the middle. The realities of the NHL changed entirely that offseason, and the salary cap that was originally projected to be around 84-86 Million. That extra 3-5 million would have paid for an Athanasiou extension and likely the Islanders would have been able to re-sign Toews to his deal as well. So unless we are punishing Holland for not being Nostradamus and failing to predict the future, I don’t believe it’s fair to criticize Holland for the Athanasiou/ Toews moves.

Burakovsky at the time was an unproven commodity and Holland had been on the job for two months. A failing? Perhaps that is true, but at the time the Oilers weren’t close to contending, we had just drafted 9th overall.

Ryan

AA was a bad player to acquire regardless of the cap issues. Holland should have known him better than anyone. Smart teams do not trade assets to acquire overpaid Sam Gagners that are incapable of playing defense and don’t score enough to cover up for that. There was literally no market even at last year’s trade deadline for AA even at $1.2m cap.
When blog readers are clamouring for a trade for Burakovsky, it’s not a cutting-edge decision. I remember Leadfarmer IIRC and many others here were advocating for such a trade well before it happened. He also played in the eastern conference, so you’d have to presume Holland knew the player.

McSorley33

That seems like a lot of picks….lots of rice on the ground around Holland’s feet

31saves

I agree with that one. You can see the logic in the trades, but 3 more second or third round pick prospects in camp today would look really nice.

YKOil

I have few issues with Holland to date. Kassian contract was bad. Keith trade (value of pieces exchanged and lack of Cap exchange/retention) was bad – will hold out hope for the player. Boxing himself in on Nurse (via the Kassian contract, big performance bonuses for Smith, over-pay on Chaisson, etc.) and not having the Cap space to close the deal earlier was bad… but this wasn’t Koskinen level bad and the jump on d-man pay was unforeseen (at least by me) soooo… yeah, definitely NOT horrible. Even the AA trade was in-the-range; so as much as I think a 2nd and 4th (still on different years) was a deal I could live with, this was NOT a Reinhart-level trade.

Holland’s record isn’t gold but it is, to my mind, above average (and maybe moreso pending the draft picks progressing). Pulling Pulju back to a plus is/was absolutely huge and it covers a lot of sins in my mind.

All that said, when the previous GM’s accomplishment list includes the Pat Maroon pick-up as a top-5 or top-10 move… not hard for a competent guy to look REALLY good in comparison.

Litke 94

“The analytics will arrive with the next lottery pick in Edmonton, I expect.” – Very interesting line this morning.

Not sure who else heard Bob’s talk with Holland yesterday, but he asked Holland about the analytics subject. He said that they don’t use it for every decision, but they do on most. LT brought up Brad Holland – Ken’s son – the other day, and Kenny said he is more analytically driven. Sounds like Ken and Dave request a sort of analytics profile on the players they prusue, to what extent I don’t know.

So clearly, Hyman and Foegele likely had an analytics swing. Keith? Clearly the exception he mentioned when saying analytics drive most – but not all – decisions.

Redbird62

Sportslogiq, a paid NHL analytics firm, of which the Oilers may be a client, actually opined prior to the trade that based on their analysis, Keith might be a good fit for Edmonton. It is quite possible the Oilers use analytics more than people assume and just don’t talk about it publicly.

defmn

Nice article by Leavins. I fear it swims upstream from the preferred narrative of many who comment here though.

Halfwise

Does the NHLPA have a position on the vaccine issues?

On player discipline matters they always seemed (to me) to side with perpetrators and against player safety in general.

OriginalPouzar

Yes, the NHLPA has been actively encouraging its entire membership to get vaccinated and the executive of the union agreed, on behalf of the membership, to the very penal protocols for unvaccinated players.

OriginalPouzar

Of the distant bells, on forward, I’m really looking forward to seeing Lavoie and Maksimov.

With the rookie games starting in the middle of the night where I was, I didn’t get to see Lavoie but it sounds like he’s ready to take that step that many do in their second year pro and be a real difference maker in the AHL. Sounds like he’s stronger which will help him in battle and being strong on the puck. Here is hoping his 2-way awareness improves and he can find a way to be more consistent – not only from game to game but from shift to shift.

I look for him to have a good camp and be a 0.5 G/G and 0.8 P/G guy in the AHL.

I am looking for Maksimov to have a pop season as well and battle Lavoie for top line winger minutes and PP minutes. Some similar skillsets as between the two – both with a great shot as their main weapon but Lavoie a bit more dynamic in his ability to create shooting lanes but Makskimov being a more complete player with high 2-way and PK abilities.

OriginalPouzar

Of those uncertain Oilers, I think Shore, McLeod and Benson are each very close to locks for the 23 man roster – Benson based off of Holland’s very recent verbal on Vancouver radio. Here is hoping Tip is on the same page as Holland with respect to Benson.

If Perlini has a great camp and has shown maturity in a 2-way game he could put himself in the conversation to steal Benson’s job but, as Holland said, its Benson’s to lose at this point.

For me, I’m not really interested in signing Colton Seviour. I know, he’s the Archibald replacement but it doesn’t make the team better to replace Archie with a similar skill-set player who is worse than Archie (in my opinion). Personally, I’d rather give a guy like Marody a real shot at a right wing depth spot on this team.

The forward group is very deep in the PK ability that they don’t need this position to be filled with a “responsible veteran that can PK” – they’ve got that on the other side with Shore. They can afford some young skill instead of a Seviour that simply doesn’t move any needled.

DBO

Be annoyed Archibald didn’t take it, but don’t condemn him. His choice. The agreement between Players and teams about how to handle it is pretty robust so the team can waive him, send him down or choose to either run out the last year of his deal or push his deal forward. Lots of choices. The addition of Sceviour was a tell, so give Holland credit he found an Archibald replacement for half his cost (expect him to sign for league minimum). As LT is fond of saying, get and keep NHL players and he is one.

So save some cap money by clearing Archibald, replace him with a similar player, open up (slightly) a spot now for a Marody or Benson to perhaps play more, and giver!

The goalie situation is the key one still this year. If they struggle, or if they can make a move for someone (looking at you Dallas and your crowded crease), then my comfort level greatly increases with a better option. Also wonder if columbus is more open to a goalie move with Elvis signing long term.

Side

Given Archibald is a conspiracy theorist brand of anti-vaxxer where he is spreading misinformation, fear and contributing towards vaccine hesitancy which so far has lead to the collapse of our public health services, he and his views on the topic are worthy of condemnation, at least in my opinion.

I am not sure why people are feeling compassionate for this man’s choice to throw his career away over conspiracy theories and his individual right to endanger public health.

JJS

This is true but his decision to not vaccinate and his desire to spread misinformation are two separate issues

Coilers2021

That is 100% true. Though I think we would all feel very differently if his spreading of misinformation influenced the likes of a McDavid, etc..

Archibald’s peddling of info is abhorrent at best. It’s one thing to have a position on this topic and to take a personal stand on it. Even if that stand meant losing your job. As a fan you could respect the man’s position and leave it at that. His approach however, hasn’t been that at all. Whether or not he’s a first line player or a fourth liner, he is in a position of influence over people by virtue of the fact that he’s a professional sports player. That carries with it a level of responsibility and that can’t be ignored. I think Holland is right to give him the time needed to dwell on this. After that though, stick a fork in the issue and be done with it. There are others who can fill that role on the team without the need for distraction through politics, conspiracy theories…

Bill

This makes sense!

Bill

In response to what Side posted that is

hunter1909

You sound jealous.

McSorley33

Say what you want about Conspiracy Theorists – but 2020 was a good year.

2020 Conspiracy theories are 2021 New York Times headlines.

Fuhrious

Please sir, spare an explanation for us illiterates?

defmn

Or to say it a different way. The difference between a skeptic and a conspiracy theorist is usually only about six months. 😉

Just a joke, people, just a joke.

Darth Tu

Please no Korpisalo. We have discussed this at length repeatedly, his stats are absolutely abysmal.

OriginalPouzar

Back on North American time just as real training camp starts – perfect.

Anyways, catching up on Holland’s spot with Stauff from yesterday and one intriguing point for me – Holland mentioned being interested in seeing how Berglund looks at camp – mentioned wanting to get a look at him as a possible call-up if injuries hit.

Berglund doesn’t get much talk or pen but I think he’s got a good chance to play NHL games this season. I know Gretz and Woody have both mentioned he’ll need some time to get used to the North American game and ice, and that is likely very true, but he’s a bit older and played top 4 minutes in a very good league for developing d-men. He’s got a chance and the Oilers don’t have great depth at the right shot d-man level at this point (Kemp and Kesslering each a ways away from being in the conversation).

JJS

It is interesting that a daily test is no longer an option for athletes given it is arguably a better gauge of immediate status than having the vaccine.
I appreciate that the vaccine is preferred from a ‘reduce the impact/severity/spread’ perspective and encourage everyone to get it. It is an excellent public health approach.
But knowing if someone is carrying the virus in real time is a fairly strong prevention system and meets the intended objective of keeping COVID out of arenas.

DBO

absolutely. this all day.

dustrock

I agree on the daily test, but my understanding was that transmission was lessened in vaccinated people, because COVID is chiefly spread by aerosol contact, and if one’s symptoms are lessened, there would be less aerosol transmission. They should be doing both quite frankly if they really want to lock it down.

DocFan

The Daily test of choice for most organizations is Rapid Covid Testing, not the PCR RNA/DNA test. These tests have poor sensitivity, meaning they can give a high false negative rate (someone has covid but tests negative).
I am not sure which daily test the NHL is using, however unless it’s the PCR test, It is not useful on it’s own.
I do not believe that relying on a Rapid test for fan attendance is very effective – only the Leafs and Oilers are doing this in Canada if memory serves me correctly.

Vaccination is really the only effective way to reduce spread / severe illness where people are in an indoor setting.
Together, there is some synergy to having both daily tests and vaccination.

Fuhrious

It is actually an interesting question under Delta as the vaccine efficiency for mild+transmissible cases is much closer to the efficiency of the rapid tests. I suppose the fact that we had free testing for all people for a year and this bug kept spreading until vaccinations basically defeated original and UK strains suggest that testing isn’t up to the task. Vaccinations plus testing, now that’s the ticket if your income depends on not having any sick days.