Winterlong

by Lowetide
Photo by Rob Ferguson

One of the things we’ll be discussing as the trade deadline approaches is what assets can be sent away for immediate, short-term help. Edmonton’s first-round pick for the 2022 draft may be in play, my guess is for a goalie. There’s likely a defenseman on the wish list, maybe a two-way centre and possibly a veteran scoring RW depending on how things go this winterlong.

The Oilers return on their draft prospects has been decidedly mediocre. Home runs are rare, marginal return common and future considerations sometimes means nothing at all. One of the few times Edmonton has received more value for prospects is at the trade deadline. Looking ahead, who is a candidate for trade at this year’s deadline?

THE ATHLETIC!

TRADING PROSPECTS FOR VALUE

December 16, 2003: Kevin Lowe trades Mike Comrie to the Philadelphia Flyers for Jeff Woywitka and the draft picks that turned into Rob Schremp and Danny Syvret. All anyone remembers about the Comrie deal is that there was a trade involving Corey Perry and the Anaheim Ducks, but Lowe wanted some of the bonus money returned. So many roads not taken this century.

June 26, 2004: Oilers trade Jason Chimera to the Arizona Coyotes for the draft picks that landed Geoff Paukovich and Liam Reddox. As a value trade, it didn’t make the cut. Chimera’s speed was a massive asset, and he played a long time. Chimera wasn’t an accomplished checker, but he could score 15 goals a year outside a feature role.

January 26, 2006: Oilers trade Jani Rita and Cory Cross to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Dick Tarnstrom. It was an excellent trade obscured only by more brilliant deals at the deadline. Rita was a first-round pick and this was optimizing value. One of the better trades on this list.

January 26, 2006: Edmonton trades rights to Tony Salmelainen to the Chicago Blackhawks for Jaroslav Spacek. This was an inspired trade, one that paid enormous dividends and almost led (in part) to a Stanley Cup. Never forget this trade, and that the deadline increases the value of those players other teams have interest in. No matter their actual value.

February 27, 2007: Oilers trade Ryan Smyth to the NY Islanders for Robert Nilsson, Ryan O’Marra and the first-round pick that led to Alex Plante. As is the case with many deals this century, the return for an expiring contract was significant, but the first-round selection didn’t work out and the emotion of the trade sealed the deal as a mass negative forever. An astute first-round pick would have made this deal value.

June 29, 2008: Oilers deal Jarret Stoll and Matt Greene to the Los Angeles Kings for Lubomir Visnovsky. Oh my how I loved this trade. Stoll and Greene were young and had value, but Lubo was the better player. Pat Quinn didn’t like him so the entire purpose of the trade ended up in the ditch, but that was a fantastic deal for Edmonton.

June 27, 2009: Oilers traded Kyle Brodziak and the pick that turned in to Darcy Kuemper to the Minnesota Wild for the picks that turned into Kyle Bigos and Olivier Roy. So Edmonton sent an NHL player away just two years into his career, plus a draft pick that would fetch an NHL goalie, for a better and a later pick that turned into nothing. Insert John Travolta in Uma Thurman’s apartment looking for signs of humanity while holding a trench coat here.

June 26, 2010: Oilers traded the rights to Riley Nash to the Carolina Hurricanes for Martin Marincin. It turned out to be a smaller trade than the draft numbers implied, but Nash has enjoyed a better career than Marincin. I liked both players.

July 12, 2011: Oilers trade Andrew Cogliano to the Anaheim Ducks for the 2013 pick that turns into Marco Roy. To make things worse, the club doesn’t sign Roy, who showed far more in a depth role than several signed Oilers prospects while he was on an AHL deal. Similar to the Brodziak deal, and not a good trade.

March 29, 2013: Oilers trade the rights to Tobias Rieder to the Arizona Coyotes for Kale Kessy. Notice a trend, here? Brodziak, Cogliano and Rieder could have turned into a helluva line, but the Oilers dealt three men who played a long time for very little return.

July 10, 2013: Oilers trade Magnus Paajarvi and the picks that turned into Ivan Barbashev and Adam Musil to the St. Louis Blues for David Perron and the pick that turned into Mike Robinson. I liked this trade when I first heard of it, and like it through today even though Barbashev and Perron are both in St. Louis. MacT is a smart man.

January 15, 2014: Oilers trade Devan Dubnyk to the Minnesota Wild for Matt Hendricks. This was a poor trade but one of the deals in team history that was almost an act of kindness. Dubnyk recovered from all that befell him in the MacT/Eakins era and enjoyed a fine career. Hendricks was a useful fourth liner. Not close to value for Edmonton.

January 31, 2014: Oilers traded Teemu Hartikainen and Cameron Abney to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Mark Fraser. A small trade, Hartikainen had already flown to Europe. However, he could have helped the NHL Oilers given a full chance.

March 5, 2014: Oilers trade Ales Hemsky to the Ottawa Senators for the draft picks that became Liam Coughlin and Sergey Zborovskiy. Man. Still hurts to see the return. Hemsky is one of the greatest Oilers between Messier and McDavid, it’s your job to keep the memory of his brilliant Oilers years alive.

June 29, 2014: Oilers traded Sam Gagner to the Tampa Bay Lightning for Teddy Purcell. I think this trade helped Gagner and the Oilers. Purcell was a useful player during a transition period and Gagner was heading toward criticism for how much value he was bringing versus his cap hit.

March 2, 2015: Oilers traded Jeff Petry to the Montreal Canadiens for picks that landed Caleb Jones and Jonas Siegenthaler. All three men are NHL defensemen, but Petry is the best one.

February 29, 2016: Oilers trade Martin Gernat and the pick used on Jack Kopacka to the Anaheim Ducks for Patrick Maroon. This was a stone cold steal by Peter Chiarelli, one of the best ones on the list.

June 29, 2016: Oilers trade Taylor Hall to the New Jersey Devils for Adam Larsson. No words required.

June 22, 2017: Oilers trade Jordan Eberle to NY Islanders for Ryan Strome. Oilers traded the better player, and then doubled down by trading Strome for a lesser player. Snakes and snakes.

February 24, 2018: Oilers trade Brandon Davidson to the NY Islanders for the pick that procured Ilya Konovalov. Too soon to know.

July 26, 2019: Oilers trade the rights to John Marino to the Pittsburgh Penguins for the draft pick used on Shane Lachance.

July 12, 2021: Oilers trade Caleb Jones and a 2022 conditional pick to the Chicago Blackhawks for Duncan Keith.

July 28, 2021: Oilers trade Ethan Bear to the Carolina Hurricanes for Warren Foegele.

QUESTION

So, here’s your question for the day: Name the acquisitions that covered the bet. If it’s too soon to know, then you can’t list, but if you believe value is already established, count it as a win.

Here are my wins, in chronological order: Dick Tarnstrom, Jaroslav Spacek, Lubomir Visnovsky (Kevin Lowe); David Perron, Teddy Purcell (MacT); Patrick Maroon (Peter Chiarelli).

My best trade: Maroon.

WHO IS A CANDIDATE FOR THE DEADLINE

Edmonton owns its own first, fourth, fifth and sixth round picks in 2022, and either the second or the third depending on the final final on Duncan Keith’s deal.

I expect Holland may deal a prospect or two, and looking back on what prospects Jani Rita and Tony Salmelainen delivered, perhaps we’ll see some trades involving young Oilers hopefuls at the deadline.

Rita played 21 games for the 2005-06 Oilers, scoring three times. He had a big shot, scored a memorable goal at the 1999 World Juniors. Pittsburgh would insert him into the lineup and he finished 3-4-7 in 30 games with the Penguins. The 51 games he played that season (6-4-10) were his final NHL appearances, Rita would play a decade for Jokerit Helsinki in two different leagues before retirement.

Salmelainen was playing for that Helsinki outfit at the time of his trade to the Chicago Blackhawks. He would return to North America for one full NHL season (6-11-17 in 57 games) before heading back to Europe (Russia, then Switzerland). He was involved in one more NHL trade, as Chicago acquired Sergei Samsonov from the Montreal Canadiens in the summer of 2007. I mention it because it proves interest in a player judged to be marginal by many.

What current Oilers assets fit the Rita-Salmelainen description? On the Oilers roster, Tyler Benson would be a comparable for Rita’s status at the trade deadline. Brendan Perlini is two years older and would be expendable if there was interest. I’m less convinced Kailer Yamamoto or Ryan McLeod could be dealt, it would depend on the size of the trade. Certainly neither man is in the same position as Rita was in 2005-06.

Among minor leaguers, Cooper Marody and William Lagesson qualify, possibly Markus Niemelainen.

Salmelainen comparables (players in Europe under control with possible value) include Maxim Denezhkin and Aapeli Rasanen.

My guess is that Holland’s whiteboard has the 2022 first, Benson, Lagesson and the full slate of 2023 draft picks as possible assets out at the deadline. The club has an extra goalie prospect too, but I’m uncertain any of them would be considered for trade at this time.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning spent trying to figure out the early NHL and previewing the World Series, beginning at 10 on TSN1260. Our guest list is fluid this morning, but we’ll have plenty of Oilers talk and at 11:20 Tyler Yaremchuk from Oilers Nation and DFO Hockey will pop by to say hello and offer his opinion on Edmonton’s 5-0 start. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

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hunter1909

although the blog says I am on the new daily message, I make a comment and it gets sent to the previous days message

way to go geniuses running this thing

judgedrude

It was late and the gremlins were tired.

Genjutsu

I been feeding them past midnight too.

hunter1909

test

hunter1909

With Toronto now seemingly right where the Lowe+MacT Oilers were near or near enough to the days when all they seemed to have was entitled young stars and incompetent vets…

I was wondering…a question to the group as it were…

Can you name any other teams that were similar?

thank you for your cooperation

yeraslob

Anybody hear of the Kenaston Super Draft? It’s back baby!

OriginalPouzar

Is Sakic going to survive the season?

Ice Sage

Bednar goes first, but yes, they’re in some trouble.

Side

Yeah but surely Vegas beat Colorado because all of their players are healthy now, right?!

Reja

I wonder who would go first in a Bouchard, Ty Smith and Noah Dobson sweepstakes? Hey Button what do you think of Bouchard you ass clown!

Harpers Hair

Ty Smith.

leadfarmer

I don’t know about that
since his heater at the start of last season he’s been in a scoring slump and continues to be sheltered and doesn’t kill penalties

OriginalPouzar

Smith had a nice rookie season last year but I’ll take the 6’3 guy with the elite offensive skill that looks to be developing a plus defensive and PK game in quick order. Once he starts to get real PP time in the next while, he’s going to produce some wicked numbers and play some big big minutes with Nurse on the top pair.

Smith may be adding some PK time to his resume, he has played 49 seconds in his two games – although he did get scored on.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

I’ll happily eat crow as of now, I was in the Dobson/Whalstrom camp at that draft. Mainly due to so many reports of substandard skating for Bouchard which turned out to be overblown, and my reticence to believe in the hype coming from London.

My first choice was Thin Hughes but he was chosen before we could, so I moved on. Gladly, as it turned out.

Bouchard has all the makings of a monster defenseman in the NHL.

who

Dobson looking pretty good with the Islanders right now. No shame in being on that train.

OriginalPouzar

Bouchard’s fancies kill Dobson’s so far this season.

They both have great GF% (Dobson 7-3 and Bouch 4-1) but Dobson’s possession metrics have him getting caved and Bouchard’s the opposite which have Bouchard’s expected goals at 65% and Dobson at 46%. While I haven’t looked at puck IQ to see level of comp, this is with Bouch having 45% offensive zone stars and Dobson at 57% and Dobson with a higher PDO.

Not to mention Dobson doesn’t kill penalties.

Bouchard is killing both Smith and Dobson so far this year by the numbers.

David

I had them ranked Hughes, Bouchard, Smith, Dobson at the draft.

I am extremely skeptical of “poor skating” tags. Anybody short of McDavid/Mackinnon level skating gets labelled “poor skater” by some people.

Reja

All it takes is 1 person making a debatable comment and it snowballs from there. The one asset that no one mentions is Bouchard size and toughness and so far he’s been on the proper side of the forward in front of the net. I’m glad we have Bouchard and he’s just going to keep improving every game.

Reja

Here comes Calgary up 4-0 looking to win there 4th game in a row on the road. It’s time to try someone else on the 2nd line I don’t know what the hell Tippett waiting for. Yamo has zero points playing with Nuge and Leon. Hello Tippett wake the eff up and get Perlini or whoever a game on the 2nd line and I betcha will see favourable results.

OriginalPouzar

What does the flames results have to do with the Oilers’ lineup?

The Oilers are 5 wins in 5 games.

Yamamoto played very well on the road trip, in my opinion.

I would 100% not touch the top 9 that was deployed in the dessert.

I would hesitate to move a high-end 2-way player off that 2nd line for a tweener that, while big, fast and can shoot, is a tweener for a reason.

Ryan

I would be curious to see the Lamborghini on that line. He’s a player with limitations and not a long-term solution, but he can skate and shoot.

Reja

Perlini scores in bunches but not when your playing 6-8 minutes and told to not take any chances and trap. I’m curious to see how many players in the league who are playing top 6 minutes have zero points. I think Yamo would do better playing lower in the line-up against the oppositions shrubs.

OriginalPouzar

“not take any chances and trap” – that sounds made up based on the play over the course of 5 games – at least to my eye – the fourth line spent much time in the offensive zone in the dessert (in particular the one that played in Vegas).

pts2pndr

You don’t change a winning lineup without justification such as an injury! It sends the wrong message as it gets the players playing for themselves instead of for the team.

OriginalPouzar

That’s not quite true in the black and white sense, is it?

Russell and Koekkoek have swapped through the season.

Perlini/Turris have swapped fro Sceviour/Benson.

The top two lines have swtiched deployment.

Perlini has swapped with Yamamoto for a few shifts.

We all know about the Bouchard/Barrie swaps.

Harpers Hair

Considering the Oilers have already clinched the Pacific Division, now is not the time to make changes.

Who cares if Mangiapane and Lindholm are tied for the league lead in goals.

And even if the Flames make the playoffs it doesn’t matter because the Oilers are always at their best in the post season.

leadfarmer

And just like that, shot percentage no longer matters

Harpers Hair

It ALWAYS matters…even for the Oilers.

Kassian 75%

Hyman 41.7%

McDavid 28.6%

Draisaitl 23.6%

Jesse 18.2%

The Meat comes for all men.

leadfarmer

Nurse 0. Nuge 0
in fact all but 8 players are 0s

OriginalPouzar

Wait, so McDavid won’t score 100 goals and Hyman won’t score 65?

I wonder if the shooting percentage for Nuge and Yamamoto will increase from 0%?

pts2pndr

Then I take it you’re a vegetarian!?

meanashell11

As usual, I do not think you understood his comment.

90s fan

HH, you are already calling us #1? How flattering!

Elgin R

3 of 4 wins by the Flames have come against non-playoff teams from last season. Do those count?

Harpers Hair

Of course they do…but, of course, they likely won’t go 4-0 against better teams.

Sound familiar?

Scungilli Slushy

The Flames and Dys are so much like the Leafs

Come in with some good players, have over belief from the fan base, play over time to their true potential, the fans stop coming, sputter out

Throw in the odd deep unsustainable run

The difference in Edmonton is pre Covid the fans are the fans and show up

The team has usually sucked , the fans still come. And now when the team is good there can be a boost from both ends, that will sustain

Harpers Hair

Yeah…I can see that with the Eskimos Ungulates.

Embarrassing.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Yeah…I can see that with the Eskimos Ungulates.

Embarrassing.

All these pretzels are making your strawman thirsty.

Side

I do not know why you spend so much of your spare time pretending to be a stupid person on the internet.

tsunami

the only embarrassing “thing” is you lol…

DevilsLettuce

You’re sweating about a team already beaten in the soul by McDavid and Co.

And the answers to the sweat is Perlini.

Nyquil will help you get some z’s.

This Oiler success is really messing with people, every HH post is filled with dread that this is the year McDavid takes the next step in the playoffs.

Beautiful Autumn so far.

Ice Sage

Yes, the Oilers should be 6-0 after five games, dammit

Reja

You replace Yamo with a better fit and watch the opposition have no answer to stop Leon’s line. The Oilers can’t depend on the PP it might get you wins in November but come playoff you need 4 lines rolling.

OriginalPouzar

Its a pretty big stretch to say that Perlini is a better fit. I guess he could be but Yamamoto does things that help the line and the team that don’t show up in the points. He’s great as a 2-way player and that has been shown in GA/60 for his entire NHL career.

Last game he drew a penalty playing on that line – the team scored.
Last game he was material to the 5 on 5 goal that line scored.

The line has played 2 games together, 24 minutes – their expected goals is over 56%.

That line is starting to roll and the fourth line played in the offensive zone much of last game (their best game, without Perlini as it turns out).

Reja

My Neighbour down the road is a good guy he works hard has 4 kids that are getting home schooled. He always waves to me with a smile when I drive by. The reason I’m talking about my Neighbour is that he has the same points as Yamo does which is a big fat Zero.

OriginalPouzar

That’s nice – Yamamoto has contributed to various goals scored this year, including two plays at 5 on 5 with the 2nd line that led to goals.

jp

I completely disagree with you, but I did enjoy this post.

John Chambers

Kailer Yamamoto had a couple of really strong games on the road, drawing a couple penalties and playing the Josh Archibald role on the pk.

I’d wait until the trade deadline before I’d consider this to be a position that needs to be addressed. My bet is that he’ll find some offense, even if it’s a .4 ppg level.

pts2pndr

I love his compete level! He needs to play on a line that has size! My hope is that he can recapture the magic with Nuge and Draisaitl.

flea

Draisaitl’s first goal v VGK from Nuge was 100% a result of his hard work. Unofficial assist on that play

Scungilli Slushy

Agree on that

Nuge has trouble 5v5 and Kailer does

Pairing them likely doesn’t help

One of them with big Leon is fine, probably need some size and net presence from the other side

If winning is the goal everyone should be good playing wherever

4 strong lines make a run at the Cup possible

2 doesn’t

I think weak forward lines compound what we see on D pairs

D can only do so much without forwards doing their jobs at par with the comp, or hopefully better

Lastly it hits the goalies. Trickles down from the front

Each forward group needs a balance of skill speed size and physicality

OriginalPouzar

Samorukov officially loaned to the Condors.

As I mentioned yesterday, Coach W. didn’t rule him out for the Wed game (or this weekend).

I don’t know if he’s been skating with the guys in Bakersfield or what he’s been doing.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

The way Gregor talked about it today it sounded like he left EDM to BAK after the transasction.

Said he’d been skating with Pelletier prior to the assignment. And the inference that Dima was shuttled between the two clubs on the news today.

OriginalPouzar

Thanks. I’m usually a day behind on the Gregor show as I listen to his pods at the gym the next morning (unless there is an “important guest”).

Given that, i doubt he plays tomorrow but hopefully on the weekend.

They play at noon on Friday for crying out loud (and then Sat night).

Attila

How about a trade for Yamamoto for Dylan Strome…subject to Connor agreeing to his former teammate?

OriginalPouzar

Strome is a $3M cap hit and needs to be qualified at $3.6M – i think that ends it right there, no?

Not to mention he’s older, slower and doesn’t PK.

Attila

Strome is one year older only. The NHL points last 3 years are: 57/38/17 for Strome and 2/26/21 for Yamamoto. Hmmm. Strome did not play next to Leon as well. Strome is 6’3″ and Yamamoto is tiny. Who can better survive the “playoffs hockey”?

Darth Tu

For what it’s worth there seems to be a bit of points regression going on with Strome, I can’t say how much of that is quality of team/line mates though – not seen enough of Chicago other than the Seth Jones memes.

I’d give Kailer a bit more time before we decide he’s washed.

I also still don’t get this “he can’t survive in the playoffs” narrative. The kid has a lot of heart and isn’t afraid to do the dirty work. Other “small” players have done just fine in the playoffs in the past. Let’s give him a chance to see how he goes this year.

Attila

I suggest no matter how much grit, heart, and intensity you have, at 155 lbs. in the NHL you will take a beating in 80 games and more in the playoffs. Giving your opponent 50 lbs. on you will take its toll short and long term. if he trained with Bodies by Bennet and added 10-15 lbs. of muscle he could do it but it does not appear he wants to do that.
and Yamamoto has also “regressed” as you say and that’s why we are chatting here. Zero points in 5 games.

Darth Tu

Strome has played twice this year, and doesn’t exactly have the best injury history. Are you sure he’s more durable than Yamamoto? Being big doesn’t mean you’re tougher/less injury prone.

OriginalPouzar

I’m not sure if you are connecting his 2 games played this year with injury issues but, I believe, those were healthy scratches.

pts2pndr

As a war veteran I will say with a great deal of certainty you’re wrong! There are other times throughout society that would also say you’re wrong such as a mother lifting a car off a pinned child! Given size and compete at the same intensity level you would be correct however the other side could argue the gentle giant syndrome!

Reja

The league is on to Yamo plus he has hands worse than Todd Marchant.

pts2pndr

Had Strome shown the same compete that Yamamoto has we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Something about not the size of the dog in the fight but size of the fight in the dog!

OriginalPouzar

Attila

 Reply to OriginalPouzar

 October 26, 2021 4:19 pm

Strome is one year older only. The NHL points last 3 years are: 57/38/17 for Strome and 2/26/21 for Yamamoto. Hmmm. Strome did not play next to Leon as well. Strome is 6’3″ and Yamamoto is tiny. Who can better survive the “playoffs hockey”?

Year and a half older, but sure.

No doubt Strome has the higher offensive ceiling but his year over year regression is real and spectacular and he can barely even crack a poor lineup right now. He also adds nothing if not producing (slower, not a good 2-way player, not physical despite his size, doesn’t PK, etc.).

If contracts weren’t an issue, I’d think about it but the $3M cap hit plus $3.6M QO make it a non-starter for me.

Scungilli Slushy

Holloway is a few minutes away if he heals

Trade for something else

godot10

Why trade for a guy who Chicago will not qualify next summer? Nobody will qualify Strome at his number. He will be a UFA on July 1.

There is no need to give an asset for him. He should be basically free to anyone who wants him.

Chicago would have to take a bad contract back because the Oilers don’t have cap room because they are in LTIR. Every dollar in has to be balanced by a dollar out.

flyfish1168

Dylan regression is real and spectacular. When you can’t skate you won’t age gracefully/. The sad part is it has already started with him. Hard NO

BornInAGretzkyJersey

I’ve had some interest in Strome the Younger since VOR proposed a trade of JP for DS before he left ARI for CHI and popped (if briefly).

It’s an interesting notion.

Plus we’d gain the versatility of another natural centre.

Depends on how the money shakes out; wonder if there’s an opportunity to smoke out whomever replaces Stan Bowman.

CMcD4PM

Related question, who is the best former Oiler still playing? Petry? David Perron?

Side

There is that other guy. Whats his name.. Baylor Small? Tailor Ball?

Somethin like that.

PennersPancakes

Oh that is a good question, Petry is damn good. Petry Bouchard Ceci would be cash money.

As for forwards (honorable mention Eberle & Strome) its gotta be between Hall and Perron. Interesting comparison because both players have bounced around the league but Perron keeps making his way back home to St Louis. Hall was an MVP player and we all know his talent but holy shit Perron is still firing on all cylinders at 33 years old

Last 3 seasons:

Perron has 184 GP 67G 97A and 164P which per 82GP is 30G 43A and 73P. All with St Louis while wining a Stanley Cup

Hall has 167 GP 37G 85A and 122P which per 82GP is 18G 42A and 60P. He did this through 4 different teams and got 11 playoff games last year. Taylor hall did have a nasty knee injury in 18-19 which ended a very hot start to the season.

Both players are offensive minded wingers who dont PK as well. Both have awesome advanced stats in general and relative to their team. If I had to pick for this year Id be tempted to choose Perron but in their primes would go Hall. Feels weird to say since Perron was drafted 3 years earlier.

CMcD4PM

Early days of course, but David Perron is currently 11th in scoring, while Taylor Hall is (scroll, scroll, scroll) 160th.

PennersPancakes

Oh I am very happily aware because of fantasy hockey. He has dual wing positions in fantasy and gets drafted way later than he should.

Plus the guy has a cool accent and one of the few tinted visors in the league (if he still has it). This guy is awesome and in the last year of his contract at 4M AAV.

GordieHoweHatTrick

Imagine Perron in the current Oil top 6 and KY in the 3rd line…!

pts2pndr

So if you were a GM and were offered Taylor Hall for David Perron your answer would be no thank you?

leadfarmer

Let’s see how that ridiculous Kings prospect depth is doing through 6 games
Vilardi 1 point – 5
Kaliyev 1 point – 2

that’s it.

Side

If I understand correctly, the Kings plan was to get Danault so they could unleash Kopitar.

And then wait an uncertain amount of time for their prospects, who couldn’t even clear the low bar of achieving 1ppg in a “watered down” AHL, to arrive.

So far it seems to be going as most expected it to go.

PennersPancakes

Yeah all the watered down shit to trash the Oilers prospects while simultaneously talking up Reign players who could barely tread water is the perfect example of shit critical thinking by whoever posted that.

OriginalPouzar

Of note, the main acquisition, the legit 2C with high end 2-way ability (that was going to make this all happen) has one point in 6 games.

Its interesting, I posited that Danault is not a legit 2C due to being shy on offence but was told how elite he was going to be in LA due to all the prospects and Kopitar, etc.

This with a 58% offensive zone starts (for the elite defending center).

Is 31% faceoffs good?

pts2pndr

It could be in HH’s world if he set the goal posts at the perfect angle!

John Chambers

Yeah but Alex Turcotte … is almost a ppg player in the AHL in his draft +3 season. When he hits the NHL then BAM – Stanley Cup!

pts2pndr

Come on give HH a break they would fit right in with -24 Quinn Hughes!?

DieHard

If our goalies are winning games with descent stats, are being well rested and with the Olympic break, why fool with it. You get more out of a trade of a first at the draft than trade deadline. Let’s see what we have in the Bake regarding goalies. Maybe our solution comes from there. Over the next few years we need impact players on their ELC’s.

in the near future how does a Samorukov / Barrie pairing seem?

pts2pndr

Pretty sad if you have to have a rookie expected to cover up for the defensive weakness of a veteran making over twice the money. As stupid as it may be OP’s idea of swapping Barrie and Bouchard on the top pairing depending on the game situation may be the best option in the short term! This would however require dressing seven D which is also by my thinking counterproductive.

maudite

I still am amazed that some teams haven’t fully embraced a utility type 7D/4th line winger type player.

Last we tried it was some player xxx larsson and I liked him in that role.

Get a dman with some pk accumen and play him hard there and the 8 minutes or whatever a night on 4th line wing.

pts2pndr

Barrie could be fourth line right winger if only he could PK! ?

31saves

I read somewhere Roy had tried Barrie on the wing for around 8 games.. obviously didn’t work out but I can’t find anything else about it

OriginalPouzar

maudite

 Reply to pts2pndr

 October 26, 2021 4:33 pm

I still am amazed that some teams haven’t fully embraced a utility type 7D/4th line winger type player.

I’ve read/hear accounts that the player really don’t like it and its really hard to manage the d-group.

I think there is value in being able to run a real 4th line for 10-12 5 on 5 minutes (but can also see the value of double shifting a McDaivd/Drai down there for a shift – although adding to their minutes is generally not something I prefer).

jp

 As stupid as it may be OP’s idea of swapping Barrie and Bouchard on the top pairing depending on the game situation may be the best option in the short term! This would however require dressing seven D which is also by my thinking counterproductive.

I don’t understand this. What’s being described is exactly what Barrie/Bear did last season.

1) it worked
2) it didn’t require dressing 7 defensemen

OriginalPouzar

Agree with your take on the goalies. I mean, if the Oilers are in a good position to make a run come February, clearly the goalies will be a part of that – its not like this team is ever going to be a lock-down defensive team this season.

I know the current tandem hasn’t succeeded in the playoffs before but it would be tough/interesting to bring in a new guy that comes ahead of both the incumbents.

I am actually hopeful that Samorukov can be that 3LD by the turn of the calendar (if not earlier) as, while I like Nurse/Bouchard (at least here and there), I don’t think either of Koekkoek or Russell with Barrie can be a thing.

I may be dreaming but, with Samorukov’s age and recent progression – that skill set of his could translate to the NHL quickly – here is hoping (or dreaming).

Ice Sage

Am not sure Koskinen will get an Olympic break – he’s tracking as Soros’ backup for Team Finland

Redbird62

Juuse so you are not confused – it’s George “Parros” who is involved with NHL ;-)! I think I will go drown my sorrows now!

Redbird62

Team Finland’s is on record saying if Rask gets healthy and plays somewhere before the Olympics, a spot is his if he want it. The teams all do have 3 goalies though, so Rask might still not prevent Mikko from getting a trip to China.

OriginalPouzar

Even if Rask is on the team as #2, I think, subject to some black ace overseas, Korpisalo is Koskinen’s main comp for the 3rd goalie. and Mikko has a much longer history of representing Finland internationally – Korpisalo has only done so once (as a pro).

OriginalPouzar

Yes, I wrote a post about that the other day – Sarros is clearly #1 but, other than him, its Korpisalo and Lankinen a distant 4th.

I guess Rask could still be on in play but Mikko may be headed to China.

lenko

“descent”? – are the stats going down?

Last edited 3 years ago by lenko
GarbanzoHumanBean

Why do people call him Bo Levi Mitchell? Is it Bo or Mitchell? Did he assassinate a president? The only person that should call him Bo Levi Mitchell is his mom after she stubs her toe in one of his crusty socks.

prefonm

I am heartened to see that leaders who keep quiet with allegations of misconduct are being held to account… as is happening in Chicago now.

Eh Team

Looking like the Jets are going to need a new GM and the Panthers a new coach.

PokeCheck

Only took a lawsuit and 11 years, and even then, the Blackhawks almost succeeded in sweeping this under the rug.

lenko

That wouldn’t be the same Stan Bowman that a month or so ago many here said that he ate Holland’s lunch is it? Not that hard to keep up with the Jones’s!

Jethro Tull

Did Bob just say Chiarelli almost traded Hall for Ceci?

Bill

That’s what the rumours were at the time the Larsson deal went down iirc.

Ryan

Not listening, but that’s long been a rumor that he tried to or something.

Redbird62

Here is an article from the Cult of Hockey in 2018 discussing it. I remarked back when Ceci was signed that it is ironic that Ceci was brought in as the replacement for Larsson.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/taylor-hall-could-have-been-traded-for-cody-ceci-tsns-dreger-reports-huh/

flyfish1168

chiarelli being the smarted person in the room hated the 2010 draft class

Last edited 3 years ago by flyfish1168
PokeCheck

Were the Sens not willing to go one-for-one?

Jethro Tull

Sens wanted a 1st rounder as well, lol.

PennersPancakes

Blackhawks investigation had a quick briefing, full report to be available to the public later today. Bowman has resigned.

Material Elvis

Are you sure he wasn’t smoked out?

Melman

From the using the past as a predictor of the future, one goalie name to remember is Chris Osgoode. If it’s cheaper for Holland to upgrade at D or F he does have a history of sticking with his old goalies, just saying….

Ryan

Lt is better at the googling old quotes than I am. I can never find that one. The gist of it being Holland was early to realize that there were only a handful of goalies worth paying for and not enough separation between the rest to justify the market cost for them (in trade or cap hit).

Last edited 3 years ago by Ryan
David

Ales Hemsky is my all-time favourite Oiler, and Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky is my favourite line.

meanashell11

I own Hemsky’s game worn rookie year home jersey.

Jethro Tull

I would hang that in my den and give it a fly-by every night!

KassHat

You would do better if you were 20 years older

31saves

Not all of us were around for the 80s. Some of us have been fans for exactly one cup run and a handful of mud for the last 20 years. Gotta find your brightness where you can.

"Steve Smith"

My first Oiler memory is 1987 game seven, and I followed the 1990 Cup run closely. Todd Marchant’s still my all-time favourite Oiler.

"Steve Smith"

For reasons that I can’t explain, 1997 was better than either 1990 or 2006. If there’s a goal that “Steve Smith” remembers, it was Marchant in ’97.

David

That goal was my first vivid hockey memory.

Kert

I also enjoyed that goal. Underdog player on an underdog team. Like a David and Goliath situation, Dallas had eliminated Edmonton in what felt like 15 consecutive playoffs series.

"Steve Smith"

You’re misremembering: ’97 was the first time Edmonton and Dallas faced each other (since the Stars moved to Dallas, anyway). The fifteen consecutive eliminations happened after, starting in ’98 when the Oilers lost to them in the second round after upsetting Colorado in the first. Marchant scored on Andy Moog, while the consecutive eliminations were the handiwork of one Ed Belllllllllllll-fourrrrrrrrrrrr.

It does make a better story your way, though.

Kert

Ah, yes. I misremember most of the 90’s. I look forward to making this mistake again in the future. 😀

MushedPeas

I hit my head on the basement ceiling panels I jumped so high.

Melman

got a jersey signed by Hemmer to my son on the wall in the basement. It’s our favourite

prefonm

Yes and I hated how Edmonton media kept calling him soft after watching him fly into the Flames zone time and again to get obliterated by Robin Regehr, who I despised with every once of me!

OriginalPouzar

Is that right? My recollection is that the Edmonton media, along with the fanbase, knew how tough he played but it was other fanbases, and outside media, that called him soft, clearly due to not staying up past 10 pm to watch Oilers games.

MushedPeas

I remember Oil media cutting up Hemsky every turn.

OriginalPouzar

Smith was on the ice for practice in full gear. He took a few shots and left early.

kgogshig

LT I don’t think you and I watched the same Dick Tarnstrom in 2006…. The deal was value because removing Corey Cross was addition by subtraction but Dick T was merely a good 3rd pairing guy…he wasn’t special.

Reja

I agree from what I remember it was addition by subtraction.

ChupaCabra

Tarnstrom was a useful piece on that team; not ‘special’ but very useful. And certainly more than worth Rita and Cross. I don’t think LT suggests any more?

flyfish1168

Spacek was the better player of the two. He was the key piece in that year’s playoff run to the SC finals. It was unfortunate he only stayed with us for that spring

Redbird62

I think if the Oilers hadn’t traded way Strome in a panic move in November 2018, that could have been a win. Strome has been undeniably the better player the last 3 seasons. Strome was 3year younger and starting his prime and he is a versatile center. Hard to say whether he could have eventually earned success with the Oilers (his line was playing very well early that season, just not getting points, but they weren’t giving up goals either).

The Visnovsky trade I would probably classify as win-win. Visnovsky may have been the better individual talent, but Greene and Stoll played the next 7 seasons for LA and were very helpful for 2 Stanley cups wins.

Otherwise, I agree with LT’s win/loss on the trade assessment.

MushedPeas

Yeah Strome trade was (another) head scratcher

JJS

Strome was below average with us

I like the player before and after the Oil but he really didn’t move the needle

Regardless, not good asset management

Ryan

Strome was stapled to Lucic.

Imagine that. Staple a player to Milan Lucic, then trade him when he’s not producing offense.

Redbird62

The man scored 34 points in his one full season with his most common linemates being Khaira, 19 yr. old Jesse, a rapidly declining Lucic and Caggiula. What more could be asked of the guy? As I said, he and his line (mostly the same guys) in his second season were playing well, but their chances just weren’t going in and he was shipped out, when they should have let the slump ride out since they weren’t giving up much in the Oilers end. Strome’s on ice was 3GF/4GA in the 18 games leading up to his trade, but out chancing the opposition. The 2.83 team on ice shooting percentage during that slump is what got him traded.

Part of the issue is that Strome is better than a 3rd line center, but with McDavid, Draisaitl and Hopkins, he wasn’t going to play center in the top 6. When they acquired him, they even talked about him possibly playing wing with McDavid, but McClelland didn’t let than happen. A whopping 58 minutes together over the season and a third. Kind of like saying McDavid and Hall couldn’t mesh based off of 75 minutes of ice time mostly in McDavid’s first month in the league. People think Tippett is stubborn and maybe lacks imagination sometimes, but McClelland seemed to dig his heels in on a lot of things and was rarely on the same page with Chiarelli.

Amadeus

How does Chiarelli get hired by any team? He was terrible. I guess teams don’t learn from the past. It’s a big old boys club.

pts2pndr

There was a noticeable disconnect which in my opinion is completely inexcusable! McClelland should have been removed sooner than he was!

Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR

This trade list gives me heartburn.

Harpers Hair

A pretty bad day for the Blackhawks.

6 players now in Covid protocol and an internal report on sexual misconduct to be released in a couple of hours.

Speculation from Elliott’s Friedman that major changes in management may be forthcoming.

Reja

The weight on the organization and even the players who were there when it comes to sexual allegations is crippling. You almost have to gut the organization because let’s face it at the time word got around that a certain Coach was twisted and yet he was protected.

PinkSocks

I’ll reserve judgement since it is not my job, but with what has been, and is about to be presented, Stan Bowman looks an awful lot like Joe Paterno.

KassHat

Regardless the Canucks are horrible

Jethro Tull

Certainly puts the antics of Mr. Kane when he was younger in a new light.

McSorley33

Before Kenny trades any more draft picks – I would like to get an audition for both
Holloway and Samorukov ( after some AHL games) Just to get a glimpse

I don’t want to sell the farm if we have internal solutions – maybe not in time for this year- but right around the corner.

Samorukov’s next birthday will be his 23rd – and he has played in the AHL and KHL.

This is not unreasonable to expect him to show something here.

Damn injuries.

The bar for Samorukov in particular is quite low as both Russell and Koekoek have not been stellar.

Lost in all of our winning has been Russell – who I think has looked
terrible here. At 34 – he looks to have lost a step here. But it is early – so we
will see.

OriginalPouzar

I am hopeful that Samorukov may be able to “pass” Koekkoek and Russell for that 3LD job to pair with Barrie (when Bouch is up the lineup) – I think his skillset, if its NHL ready and translates, could be a great fit to partner with Barrie.

Given timeline (i.e. probably not playing games until late December/January at the earliest) and the fact he’s 20 with zero pro games player (heck, zero pro training camp sessions), Holloway may not be a real option until next season – we’ll see how it goes though.

OriginalPouzar

There is always discussion on the points system in the NHL but it’s becoming clear that a more nuanced system is required.

I mean, it’s obvious that wins against teams that are generally projected to be lesser teams should be with less.

The Oilers should not get full point credit for their wins this season and probably shouldn’t have been awarded a playoff spot last season given 9 wins against Ottawa.

PennersPancakes

Schrodingers Teams: The HH concept that opposing teams can simultaneously be playoff teams that the Oilers should worry about while also being free bingo spots that shouldnt be full credit wins.

David

Nailed it.

Material Elvis

I think HH hacked your account.

Jethro Tull

You are suggesting a handicap system? They already have that. It’s called the Salary Cap, coupled with the option to hire a GM and Executive staff. This is augmented by the staff being able to hire players up to the value of said salary cap.

Not to mention a higher chance of drafting better players.

And didn’t OTT have Toronto’s or the Flames’ number last season?

The teams that shouldn’t have made the playoffs were the teams that in any other year, didn’t have the point total needed. Like the Hawks or the Canadiens.

It’s the money – always follow the money. The number of games went down and the NHL actually increased the number of teams in the play-offs in order to drive revenue. They arbitrarily changed the criteria of qualification – points – to include win %. Why? Because some big markets were about to not make the play-offs.

The nuance is, and should be, very simple. Build a good team, win against whomever you play against.

Anyone remember how Detroit had a guaranteed 60+pts against it’s old division, not so long ago?

judgedrude

Toronto was 5-4 against Ottawa last year against. If Ottawa was so bad that we shouldn’t consider them, those minuses against Toronto should be so large that Edmonton could still have finished first?

I think it is better to really consider the parity in the NHL that they strive for. All too often, the Oilers lose a game the “should have” won. Even a bad team suffering the Pain for Shayne can start the year 4-1-1 (looking at you BUF).

As LT has said, you are going to win a third of the games and lose a third. It is the last third that is up for grabs. However, at game time, you never know which kind of game you are in. The best bet is to have everybody bring their all and hope to tip the scales in your favour. (Of course noting that McDavid or a hot goalie already starts the tipping process.)

I think that in addition to the stats and modelling, you really need to add in a randomness factor to account for all the crazy bounces minutiae that happen in a game. A lucky bounce off your leg and in is a chance event, but having players in front of the net obviously increases those chances. Players winning 50/50 battles on the boards could be like faceoffs, etc. These things are more effort based and allow “lesser” teams to still be competitive and overcome the expected outcome. Basically, discounting a win means the other team wanted to lose, and that is not how it works.

Regarding a more nuanced points system then…why do some games give 3 points to the teams and others only 2. The easiest way to fix the points and reflect strength in the game is having all 3-point games. A 5-2 victory signifies outplaying your opponent more than a 3-2(SO) outcome, and that could be reflected in the point distribution. And could you imagine at the end of the year teams pulling a goalie in a tie game because they need 3 points to make the playoffs…fun!

Don’t know if that makes sense, but where I ended isn’t where I started.

Oilman99

Then Vegas and Colorado should not have made the playoffs playing in the Pacific train wreck division either.

Amadeus

I agree with OP. They should change the Points system for players too. Kopitar should be leading the league in points because LA is HH’s favorite. Mcdavid should be deducted points because he did it against teams with injuries.

OriginalPouzar

I’m not sure all saw the sarcasm/facetious nature of the original post.

Jethro Tull

Gonna level with ya, your sarcasm font wasn’t set. Time for Prof. Frink’s sarcasm detector.

judgedrude

I’m not sure all saw the sarcasm/facetious nature of the original post.

Since you’re not sure….No…no I did not.

pts2pndr

Given that all the other teams in the all Canadian group also played Ottawa it was completely fair. The Bettman point for losing is the one aspect that should be done away with! There is no way you can grade quality of competition into the playoff equation!

flyfish1168

So much bleeding out of draft picks and good prospects. The return was so underwhelming. The era of darkness was well earned from these types of loss trades. We now wait to see Hollands last few and how they will affect the future.

leadfarmer

I tell you what guys
Those offseason moves for the kings are really paying off ?

OriginalPouzar

27th in points percentage and 24th in goals/game really speaks to how those moves have worked out and opened up the offensive game for the team’s stars.

Jethro Tull

Now that’s sarcasm.

John Chambers

I view Raphael Lavoie as a prime trade asset.

I don’t see him cracking our top-6, especially with Holloway and then Bourgault pushing, and his play away from the puck likely isn’t strong enough to play a bottom-6 role.

His size and pedigree are of value, and it would be worth cashing in on his cachet before his value crashes.

Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR

Raphael Lavoie is well on his way to becoming Dan Currie.

Reja

I was so happy when he fell to us in the draft a big forward that drives to the net and has hands. Three years later and he still seems to be in neutral.

dustrock

As a complete deskchair blog commenter, Lavoie seems like one of those guys who has the talent but not the insane drive to make the pros. For some of these goal scorers who can kinda coast until the pros, it must be a real wakeup call.

Material Elvis

The only prospects that I wouldn’t trade at this time are Samorukov, Broberg, Skinner, Holloway, and Savoie. I’d be hesitant to trade Bourgault but he’s a few years away so would consider him if the return was solid. Any other prospects, including Lavoie, would be on the table. There really isn’t any trade value at the moment for Benson, Lagesson or any of the older prospects — they could have been picked up for free on the waiver wire but no teams were interested. Draft picks would also be fully available but I wouldn’t trade a 1st round pick for a rental.

OriginalPouzar

I 100% agree that Lavoie is definitely no lock to make it at all let alone to make it in a top 6 role. There are some (many) that think he could be an option this season and I don’t see it and caution against it.

At the same time, lets not forget, we are talking about a 2nd round pick that is in his 2nd year pro (and due to Covid, wasn’t able to get a full AHL season in his 1st year pro).

He very well may not make it and may turn out to be a bust but I think this thread shows a bit of the unreasonable timelines we often have for prospects.

I don’t think one should expect to have a 2nd round pick pushing for the NHL in their 2nd year pro.

Lavoie has a long ways to go and his start to the AHL season is very under-whelming – at the same time, he is a 2nd year pro and has two full seasons of his ELC left and will almost assuredly earn a second contract ala Benson, etc.

Here is hoping he makes real progress this season and is in the conversation at camp next year – that would be reasonable progression in my opinion.

jp

There really isn’t any trade value at the moment for Benson, Lagesson or any of the older prospects — they could have been picked up for free on the waiver wire but no teams were interested.

Benson has never been waived so we don’t know if other teams are interested.

Not that he has a lot of trade value, but there are likely teams that would pay a modest asset for him.

McSorley33

Ugly list… a tale of the Edmonton Oilers.

Darth Tu

On December 28, 2015 Kassian was traded from the Montreal Canadiens to the Edmonton Oilers for goaltender Ben Scrivens.

Regardless of how we feel about the contract he has now, this was a clear as day win.

Whaler Slamamoto

But Scrivens had a 97 save shutout!!

Redbird62

Scrivens only had 4 good games (and 5 wins) in the NHL after he left the Oilers. Ironically (or maybe typically) one of those 4 was a win against the Oilers with a .958 save %.

Redbird62

But I know you were also not being serious ;).

OriginalPouzar

That is Ben Scrivens: Team Canada Olympian.

Genjutsu

One quibble:

From the wiki:

On January 15, 2014, Edmonton traded Dubnyk to the Nashville Predators in exchange for forward Matt Hendricks.”

He spend time with the Habs after that for futures then signed with Arizona and was traded to Minnesota where he became a legit starter.

I’d say Edmonton get get value in this deal, but what he became years later obscures it.

Reja

Dubnyk was never going to bounce back in Edmonton it took him 3 teams and many showers to finally get the stench of Eakins off of him.

Bruce McCurdy

Dubnyk had 3 good years in Edmonton and 0.5 of a (very) bad year. The team gave up on him way too fast.
See tomorrow’s opposing goalie, Carter Hart, for an example of a team sticking with a netminder through a bad spell.

Redbird62

That may be true, and certainly Edmonton should have had a better idea of what form he was capable of possibly returning to than either Nashville or Montreal, but Nashville traded Dubnyk for Future Considerations and the Habs traded him for a 3rd round pick that did not yield an NHL player.

His fate in Edmonton and devaluation was possibly sealed with the immortal words “if you have to ask the question..”, though it you read more from that interview, MacTavish was not as down on Devon as many people remember. He just wasn’t ready yet to confirm Dubnyk was a bonafide career number one yet:

https://oilersnation.com/2013/05/24/can-devan-dubnyk-meet-craig-mactavishs-expectations/

dessert1111

The Dubnyk situation felt untenable at the time, even worse than the J Schultz one that came a bit later. I didn’t like taking on Hendricks at the time because he like 3 years left on his deal but it ended up working out alright. I think both the Oilers and Dubnyk needed to move on – I think he needed it to have the career he did.

Ryan

If you have to ask the question…

TheGreatBigMac

I think Holland would want a LD. Mattias Ekholm and Ben Chiarit will be two big fish possibly available. They would be expensive, think first plus two prospects.

The problem is we have no cap to resign next year so it’s purely a rental for us. I think there will be other teams who can resign so it’s worth offering more for them.

Sami, Broberg, Savoie, Holloway, Bourgault are untouchable unless the return is more than a rental.

PennersPancakes

Just FYI Ekholm signed a 4 year 6.25 AAV extension

TheGreatBigMac

Missed that, thanks.

Randle McMurphy

imo, it’s extremely unlikely that Holland procures a rental

innercitysmytty

Doubt Chiarot fetches that much.

Darth Tu

I’d agree, Chiarot is likely a 2nd at most – which funnily enough we don’t have access to.

ArmchairGM

Nope, Holland reserved it for a better LHD than Chiarot.

Darth Tu

Hey! Have we hit the 200 min mark on Keith yet? We’re not allowed to discuss that yet 😀

Silver Streak

Barrie is the trade piece….redundant and expensive offensive skills with both Bouchard and Nurse. There will be interest from others who may have what we need…sets up for a pure hockey trade. What we need at 3RD is a stay at home, tough, Larsson type. We have 2 coming in Samorukov and Berglund…Holland will know when to pull the trigger.

Randle McMurphy

I completely agree with your logic.

I also think Holland and Tippett value Barrie quite a bit. AND I think Holland likes to honor his commitments to Vet’s on new contracts.

Don’t see it happening unless someone comes knocking with an offer they can’t refuse. And that is unlikely imo..

It’s more likely Holland trades a prospect (or two) that he didn’t draft.

Last edited 3 years ago by Randle McMurphy
ChupaCabra

Barrie is a good trade piece in the summer, but I would guess that there is next to zero chance he is traded at the deadline … unless it is for a different RD as you suggest.

Last edited 3 years ago by ChupaCabra
OriginalPouzar

I wouldn’t be against trading Barrie in the summer – its one of the potential moves for cap structuring.

Its really tough to see an in-season trade of Barrie happening on many levels.

One level being, there is no other proven right shot D in the org. Berglund is next up we simply don’t know if he’d be able to handle a 3RD role notwithstanding a very good camp/exhibition season and an OK start to his AHL career. Russell or Koekkoek on their off-side is far from ideal. Sure, Samorukov’s name could be in the conversation but, even if he does prove to be NHL ready over the next few months, putting him on his off-side to start his career is asking alot. Yes, I know, he’s played alot of right side and did so in the KHL the entire year. There are countless d-man who played their off-side well in Europe that aren’t able to translate to the NHL.

Not to mention, Holland will almost assuredly be looking to add veteran D to the roster, not subtract, and then there is the indirect ramifications of trading a player just signed as a UFA and the effect on future procurement, etc.

DevilsLettuce

Holland isn’t trading a defender out unless he’s getting 2 back.

pts2pndr

He isn’t trading a defender if you’re still talking Barrie. The fact that he is a black hole as a defender is the crux of the problem!

31saves

All of those trades made me remember the rampant rumors on the message boards anytime there was an Oiler trade that somebody must have slept with somebody’s wife.

dustrock

Or the old “surely this can’t be the only move” ha ha ha ha ha

McSorley33

Exactly!

Don’t worry this is just setting up another deal.

MushedPeas

Oi vey. :-/

MushedPeas

Soooo much Oilers history so painful. Franchise started super nova, shifted to red dwarf then black hole sun.

Bright skies ahead?

Litke 94

Hell of a breakdown, LT.

That is a pretty lopsided record spread over several years. It’s not even just the bad trades that are scary, but as you point out, the good trades that turned sour. Not using Visnovsky properly, sending away Perron way too early, taking acquired draft picks and missing the mark, etc.

Bad trading, bad developing, bad drafting. A trifecta of futility and a lesson that no one in this town should forget for quite some time.

Coilers2021

Just to emphasize your point. Check out Tambellini’s record as GM. Horrific doesn’t begin to explain how bad it was.

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/steve-tambellinis-disastrous-trading-record-as-edmonton-oilers-gm-put-the-club-in-a-deep-hole

5 years of ugly folks. How on earth were these guys allowed to sit in those positions that long?

Bruce McCurdy

My goodness that was painful to write.

Eh Team

Bad management abounds in the NHL. Look at Benning and the Canucks. Bowman trading for and signing Seth Jones to a horrendous contract. The list could go on and on

Scungilli Slushy

Too many people top to bottom in the org wanted to recreate the past (be the Kings Ducks or Bruins) instead of creating the future.

Ironic given the team that made them famous for the BoB fellas was all about breaking the mold.

Hopefully Holland with his inherited bounty has vision.

Whaler Slamamoto

For your own health, I would suggest forgetting it ASAP!

RonnieB

One can certainly frame a valid case against trading away Perron too early, but what if the pick acquired for him had been used to select one of Barzal, Connor, Chabot, Eriksson-Ek, Boeser or Konecny (all of whom were still on the board) instead of Griffin Reinhart?

Halfwise

That list of trades makes them look like repeat organ donors.

Something something “develop a past” something…

PinkSocks

I think the only time to start forking over 1st round picks is, at the earliest, next season. You need Holloways and Bourgaults and Brobergs pushing for a roster spot much more than Bensons and Lavoies and Munzenbergers.

Tampa, for instance, became the annual powerhouse around the 13-14 season. The following season they lost in the SC finals. Only then did they start trading away 1st round picks and previously 1st round drafted players. Eventually it catches up, but not after a decade plus of legit contender status.

Holland may have a legit contender starting this season, but he sure as hell needs to have a team pushing through the first two rounds before he gets carried away trading the first picks year in and year out.

Bourgault’s production is increasing this season, it’s fair to say both Holloway and Broberg would be dressed opening night 2022-23 and Bourgault pushing the following season. Save the picks Kenny, it’s the only way to maintain a 15 year run.

McSorley33

This is my take as well.

I would like to see us only pull the trigger if a team is showing serious signs of contending.

But, my bet is Kenny can’t resist and does trade the 1st starting this year.

Whaler Slamamoto

I’m sure Holloway is a good prospect, but I just don’t see him breezing into a KH lineup next fall. It would have to be a blazing AHL appearance later this year.

David

Agreed. I am loathe to part ways with the 2022 first rounder. Keep the pipeline flowing!

OriginalPouzar

McSorley33

 Reply to PinkSocks

 October 26, 2021 10:24 am

This is my take as well.

I would like to see us only pull the trigger if a team is showing serious signs of contending.

But, my bet is Kenny can’t resist and does trade the 1st starting this year.

When asked prior to the season about being a big buyer around the deadline, Holland was very clear that the status of the team will be the primary factor – he isn’t going to go big with assets out unless he thinks the team is primed for a run.

I think he clearly understands that there isn’t a bottomless basket of assets (future) that he can trade and, as much as some fans like to say “every year with McDavid is a year to go all-in”, that is not feasible.

If the Oilers are leading the division and healthy, etc., I think he’ll be a fairly big player.

Lets not forget, “going all-in” will require assets out for cap space in addition to assets out for player acquisitions.

McSorley33

Holland traded assets for last years run….and the year prior.

Kulikov was never going to help that team.

He should have been a seller last year and quite a few people in here said so.

OriginalPouzar

The intent of his message during the interview that I am remembering (this past off-season) was a much more material deadline that either of the past two year. It was with Stauffer so likely on Oilers Now.

I think there were some that wanted to trade Barrie for cap space to improve immediately for the stretch run but I don’t recall many people looking to sell off all pending UFAs for futures.

I could be wrong.

Redbird62

i’d be curious if you could name any teams in any season that were pretty much assured of making the playoffs at the deadline that were sellers.

defmn

June 29, 2008: Oilers deal Jarret Stoll and Matt Greene to the Los Angeles Kings for Lubomir Visnovsky. Oh my how I loved this trade. Stoll and Greene were young and had value, but Lubo was the better player. Pat Quinn didn’t like him so the entire purpose of the trade ended up in the ditch, but that was a fantastic deal for Edmonton.

I think we see the vluation of trades a little bit differently. I’ve posted this idea a couple of times the past few months – mostly in response to the reaction from some to the Bear-Foegele trade – but here I go again.

The point of trades is to improve the team. The measurement of team improvement is the point total in the standings. There is undoubtedly a component of value in terms of players for players but that isn’t the most important part. The important part is how much the trade helps the team win games.

This is why teams that think they can win cups or get closer to winning cups trade 1st round picks for guys who will be available as UFA’s a couple of months later. The objective of trades is to win games – not to win trades.

The Greene-Stoll trade for Visnovsky is the trade that convinced me of this. The Oilers got the better player and made their team worse. It was a bad trade at the time because the team needed what Stoll and Greene had more than they needed what Visnovsky brought and Quinn just made it worse.

It is the old ‘won the battle, lost the war’ analysis.

jmo

Randle McMurphy

Given his recent moves, I think Holland agrees with you.

I also think Dubas may haven fallen victim to the harm you point out, both in terms of moving too quickly and spending picks.

I will give credit where credit is due; Dubas and his team did an outstanding job in identifying talent.

innercitysmytty

Dubas did indeed do an outstanding job in identifying talent. His mistakes have primarily been in handing out contracts at more than full value to most of that talent. This has led to him losing the likes of Hyman this year and potentially Reilly next year.

buck yoakam

Tavares is a terrific player but one that t-dot is already regretting…that move along with nylander’s contract have basically hog tied dubas’s hands (losing Hyman @ 5.5 is criminal) and anderson also so under rated !

Amadeus

Isn’t Marner’s contract worse at $10.9 mill?

Bruce McCurdy

I’m on board with this. I loved Lubo, LOVED him, but in Stoll & Greene the Oilers gave up 2 guys in their mid 20s who were emerging as part of the core leadership group. Traded WAY too many guys like this for pennies on the dollar. At least in this case they got value, trouble was Lubo only played ~100 games for the Oil.

OriginalPouzar

Dubas seems to have made quite a few good moves but also quite a few bad moves. The Tavares contract was simply unnecessary in that team structure and then he got absolutely killed in the Marner and Matthews contract negotiations.

In addition, he moved on from two important 2nd tier core players that have really hurt his team – Kadri and Hyman.

In my opinion.

Randle McMurphy

Unless Koski stumbles or Smith gets injured, the probability that a significant trade occurs is less than 50% imo.

I don’t think they move any of Barrie, Kass, or Yamo, and the rest of our assets are bubble / waiver wire type assets.

The 1st only moves for a goalie imo.

With Holloway and Samorukov potentially on their way, we may not see a significant move until the summer.

Holland needs that first round pick in the summer; It’s his only real leverage to manage our goaltending situation for the future.

Last edited 3 years ago by Randle McMurphy
OriginalPouzar

I could see the first moving for a rental (or rentals) of significance – Rakkel plus Manson or Hertl or something like that.

I don’t see it moving for a goalie unless its a young goalie with term and, frankly, that may be tough to commit to unless there is evidence of regression among the pro goalie prospects.

Side

And in some alternate universe, the Oilers traded Nurse and Draisaitl to Montreal for Subban.

Randle McMurphy

That’s dark. Very very dark.

Would literally have been one of the worst trades in NHL history.

Side

Some people play tapes of scary sounds on their lawn for Halloween, I play a tape of myself dictating Oilers trades and heavily rumoured Oilers trades.

SpoOoOoOky

Randle McMurphy

On a taped loop….. “I promised Mess I wouldn’t do this”

Side

And someone laying in a pile of leaves popping up screaming

“GRIFFIN REINHART!”

Also can’t forget a jar containing Sheldon Souray’s amputated hand on display somewhere.

Last edited 3 years ago by Side
Randle McMurphy

You could charge money for this. 🙂

Side

A room playing grainy projector quality footage on the wall of Connor McDavid crashing into a goalie post and out comes someone in a bloodied hockey mask wearing a Flames jersey, #5 with Kneeordano on the back.

Okay, back to work..

Randle McMurphy

Dallas Eakins with a ghoulish white face carrying an axe and a bucket.

“Chop Limbs, Carry Blood”

(With a frightened Taylor Hall throwing bottles at him)

Last edited 3 years ago by Randle McMurphy
Whaler Slamamoto

Hall of course would be fresh off facial stitches after his face being stepped on in warmup!

dustrock

Believe it was more than that, IIRC. Just madness.

Randle McMurphy

In the living room window….shadows of the “Red Wine Club” toasting each other

Randle McMurphy

and cackle laughing at all the tier two fans.

Genjutsu

Nurse, Drai and Jesse for Subban and Sergachev.

Randle McMurphy

That trade would have made us the Calgary Lames.

Whaler Slamamoto

Game 7 vs Carolina playing at an unreasonable volume in a dark room.

who

Hey, I bet 75% of the posters here were in favor of that trade when it was rumored. Although none of them will admit it now.
All I remember reading was how Subban was the right shot PP quarterback this team desperately needed, and how Nurse and Draisaitl were unproven and expendable because we had Klefbom and Hall.
Those of you who hated the Hall trade should really be breathing a sigh of relief. It could have been much, much worse.

Side

Oh I’ll admit, I was in favour if the idea for sure (depending on what the actual trade would have looked like).

If I recall, Nurse was kind of meandering in development at that time but not due to his fault. I thought it was because the Oilers were rushing his development, were pushing him to be a #1 dman too quickly and were going to ruin him.

At the time I also thought Draisaitl’s ceiling was going to be Kopitar-lite but would get overpaid like crazy.

All for Subban who had recently won the Norris? Why not!

But thats why I am not a GM.

And if it happened it would have been a horror show.

Especially if it included Puljujarvi like others have reminded me.

It’s one of those situations where I wonder if we got lucky that the trade didn’t happen because the GM on the other line was getting too greedy in trying to rob another blind Oilers GM.

who

At the time I probably would have traded Nurse for Subban even up, and I wasn’t
the biggest Subban fan. But Nurse and Draisaitl was a huge overpay, even at that time.

meanashell11

What about the trade for Roloson?

Cost a first and a third. That first was a very very late first!

Last edited 3 years ago by meanashell11
Randle McMurphy

Rolly the Goalie!

Awesome Trade!

Reja

Loved him still do.

Bruce McCurdy

Acrually it was #17 overall based on Oilers regular season record. Only the Stanley Cup champ dropped to the bottom of the first round in those days.
Pick was later swapped to LA who chose Trevor Lewis, who has been and remains a divisional rival of the Oil ever since. Not a game changer, but a solid grinder.

OriginalPouzar

Kevin Lowe’s work in the months leading up to the 2006 playoffs was historic.

Acquiring Roloson, Spacek, Tarnstrom and Samsanov.

The only issue was the re-sign of Roloson (and I know I’m in the minority here but I was not a big fan of his post-playoff run play for the Oilers).

Coilers2021

Another great article. You’re really putting us to work this week eh?

In answering this question you’ve posed to us I’ve decided that I’m only going back one decade as I felt that I could really get tangled in the weeds with some of those older trades.

1 – Paajarvi for Perron – Liked that trade at the time and on reflection today, I still like it. If I recall correctly that was the time where MacT said the team required ‘bold moves’ to move forward. This trade was a solid win for the Oil IMO.

2 – Maroon – It absolutely pains me to admit that Chiarelli made a good trade but there is no denying Maroon was a tangible piece of that Oilers club who scored and brought the nasty to the game’s opponents as well.

3 – Davidson for Konovalov – perhaps it’s too early to say but I am very optimistic of Konovalov’s future with this team. From my eye test, and with the right seasoning and assistance from Woodcroft, I think this kid will be part of the future. Davidson was decent but I would count this as a win for the Oil for the potential Konovalov will bring.

And that’s about it unfortunately. As you noted LT, the Oilers traded too many of their assets for garbage and/or didn’t turn the returning assets into anything. Pretty brutal trade history when you think about it.

Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve

I think Hertl is a UFA. Plays rw and c. Could be a fun option. Marody and the rights to Omark. Do it!

Last edited 3 years ago by Brogan Rafferty's Uncle Steve
TheGreatBigMac

Would be interesting but it looks like Wilson may have pulled that team out of the dumpster. They have reasonable goaltending for the first time in a few years.

Randle McMurphy

I focused my attention heavily on Ethan Bear last night.

Early on, he made 3 mistakes on the same shift that lead to Toronto’s only goal.

But after that he was excellent for the rest of the game. Moved the puck like we’re used to seeing, and chipped in offensively with an assist. He was an integral part of a second goal as well.

Played along side Slavin. Pairing looked strong. Played about 18-19 minutes including PK time.

He has settled in nicely in Carolina.

Carolina’s personnel and style of play suit him well.

Last edited 3 years ago by Randle McMurphy
Coilers2021

I saw the plays you referred to with Bear leading to that Toronto goal. Mistakes are going to happen for sure but as you noted, he played well for the rest of the game. Glad to see Brind’amour didn’t bench him for those gaffes. I’m happy for the kid. I hope he flourishes there.

OriginalPouzar

Ethan Bear is a good, not great, hockey player – valuable, I’d love to have him on the Oilers.

Warren Foegele is good, not great, hockey player – valuable, I am happy to have him on the Oilers.

This was a hockey trade. Value for value. Both teams got a player they coveted and needed to fill a role/hole that needed filling.

I’m not concerned about minutes played as a “top 4 D” vs. a “3rd liner” and equating value that way. I don’t care. The Oilers biggest issue the last number of years was the bottom six in general and the 3rd line specifically. The GM added two players to help in that regard, on that is just priming and will be here for at least 3 years. That 3rd line has been a MASSIVE part of the 5-0 start and will be for the season.

Solid trade for both teams so far.

Randle McMurphy

My dream is that Bear wins Stanley, Foegele wins Stanley; both with the Oilers. 🙂

Never say never.

#TheHurricanesBlow

Last edited 3 years ago by Randle McMurphy
Randle McMurphy

OK. Point taken. No F#cking Trades! EVER!

Honestly, that list is so scary you should have saved it for Sundays post.

Last edited 3 years ago by Randle McMurphy
99266in87

Lol ?

Randle McMurphy

99266in87

What a Goal !!!

pts2pndr

It could be a plot for a Halloween hockey horror story! Well done!

OriginalPouzar

Its never too early to start thinking about what the holes in the lineup might be and where reasonable upgrades can be procured. Ken Holland has already spoken about adding to the team materially if they are in a good spot as the deadline approaches. He stopped short of saying he’d trade the 1st round for a pure rental but it could be on the table.

Its also too early to really know. I mean, if the team is a top 10 (or top 5) team come February, chances are the tending is doing quite well and a part of that.

Right now, a legit 2RW seems logical (and someone mentioned Rackell again last night) but maybe Yamamoto solidifies, maybe Holloway does arrive and it moves Hyman over.

A solid 3LD to play with Barrie would be amazing but maybe Samourkov arrives and pops.

Perhaps a RD is needed if there is an injury to any of the three guys.

Rackell seems logical to me and the price should be less than a first but the Oilers can’t trade the 2nd or 3rd. Add Josh Manson and the 1st and, say, Lavoie, could be something.

The Oilers would have to dispose of a massive amount of cap to make that happen though.

Randle McMurphy

What’s realistic in terms of available cap at the deadline, without trading Koski, Kass, or Barrie?

OriginalPouzar

Whatever cap space the Oilers have using their LTIR reserves – essentially, whatever cap space they have under their pseudo-increased cap limit. Apx $2M unless there are guys on regular IR that are causing the team to go with a 24 man roster (or higher) for cap purposes – like Mike Smith right now.

The Oilers will accrue zero cap space on any day this year to bank and, when using LTIR reserves, they need to account for a player’s full cap hit – so, if they have $2M under the increased fake cap, they can acquire a $2M player (well, $2M plus the cap of a player they’d remove from the roster).

31saves

My question is, for this year who are candidates to move out for cap?

-koskinen (if a goalie arrives)
-barrie (talked to death and is an NHL D)
-Kassian (proving himself a valuable 3RW again)
-yamamoto (not much cap and too valuable to get rid of)
-turris (1.5 is not much but is material)

Is there anywhere else to shed cap without creating another hole?

OriginalPouzar

Realistically, aside from maybe Koskinen, Holland isn’t moving any of those players during the season – he won’t be removing roster players that help the team on the ice. Further, moving out players with term (Barrie, Kass) is fairly hard to do during the season and rare at the deadline.