The Edmonton Oilers investment in Sweden over the last dozen years or so has been substantial. From Magnus Paajarvi to Anton Lander, through Oscar Klefbom and now Philip Broberg, some terrific talent has arrived from the various leagues of Sweden. This year, there are some solid talents near the top, and a deep group who are candidates for my final 125. I listed 10 Finns for the 2022 draft, there are 21 young men from Sweden who are in the conversation.
THE ATHLETIC!
- New Lowetide: Oilers’ Zach Hyman’s value continues to rise in playoffs
- New DNB: Connor McDavid scored the most important goal of his career with his Battle of Alberta OT winner
- Lowetide: Oilers’ Ryan Nugent-Hopkins having effective playoffs before big goals
- DNB: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins gets his chance to shine in the playoffs
- DNB: Cody Ceci making himself ‘irreplaceable’ in playoffs
- Lowetide: Oilers future relies on quality coaching replacement in Bakersfield
- DNB: Leon Draisaitl assists on all four Oilers goals in win over Flames
- Lowetide: Has Oilers goalie Mike Smith earned the net in 2022-23?
- DNB: This is how Connor McDavid wins: ‘He’s like a shark circling the waters’
- Lowetide: Reasonable expectations for Oilers could not see chaos ahead
- DNB: How Dave Manson is making the Oilers blue line better
- Lowetide: Oilers regular season report card for 2021-22
Sweden and the 2022 draft
That’s 20, not listed here is Oskar Asplund, an interesting prospect defenseman. I expect the top three names are locks for the top-20 on my final list, there might be four in my first round when it’s done and we could have a gigantic number on the final 125. I have the top three in a different order, and maybe Kasper will be the best, but Lekkerimaki is a riser, his offense is the best in the group.
LOWETIDE 2021 LIST
LW William Eklund, Djurgardens. Exceptional offensive talent already in SHL.LD Simon Edvinsson, Vasteras IK Huge (6.05, 207) two-way blue with great mobility.RW Fabian Lysell, Lulea. Breathtaking skill winger, great release.G Jesper Wallstedt, Lulea. 6.03, 214, 22 games and a .908 SP in the SHL.LW Oskar Olausson, HV 71. Skill winger, great hands and 6.02, 181.RW Isak Rosen, Leksands. Speedy playmaker, March 2013. Sixth sense offensively.RW Simon Robertsson, Skelleftea. Bert’s boy, has a powerful shot. Feb. 2003.LW William Stromgren, MoDo Big skill winger with good wheels.LD Anton Olsson, Malmo. Big, sturdy shutdown defender. Mobile.LC Victor Stjernborg, Vaxjo. Two-way forward, aggressive forechecker, great passer.LC Samuel Helenius, JYP. Huge checking center already in the Liiga.- LW Arvid Sundin, Brynas. Underzied burner has breathtaking shifts.
LC Liam Dower-Nilsson, Frolunda. Two-way center with some offensive spark.G Carl Lindbom, Djurgarden. Top draw U18s has him here.RW Albert Sjöberg, Sodertalje. Great shot and work ethic.
I had the draft covered (top 125), with 14 of these names chosen. Among Swedes who were chosen in the first 125 names, I didn’t have Oliver Johansson (No. 74 to Ottawa) and Philip Svedeback (No. 117 to Boston).
BUILDING THE TOP 125
- RC Shane Wright (O). Peter Harling (Dobber) compares to Patrice Bergeron.
- LC Logan Cooley (U). Incredible skater, skilled and elusive. Dual threat.
- RC Matt Savoie (W). Scott Wheeler: Inside the offensive zone, he’s lethal.
- RW Joakim Kemell (L). High skill, great shot, 15 goals in Liiga.
- LD Denton Mateychuk (W). Elite skater, complete range, impressive passer.
- LW Juraj Slafkovsky (L). Big skill winger who spiked during the season.
- RW Jonathan Lekkerimaki (Swe). Skill winger with exceptional shot.
- LW Cutter Gauthier (U). Big W with outstanding shot and sixth sense for goals.
- LC Markus Kasper (Swe). Range of skills, safe pick, can help on offense.
- RW Jagger Firkus (W). Quick, skilled, difficult to contain.
- RW Frank Nazar (U). Fast train, intelligent, creative, impressive offense.
- LD Pavel Mintyukov (O). Top-end skater, puck mover. Some chaos defensively.
- LW Isaac Howard (U). Fast release, creative, emerging.
- LW Liam Ohgren (Swe). Goal scorer had a strong season.
- RW Jordan Dumais (Q). Undersized skill winger impressive playmaker.
- LW Brad Lambert (L). Outstanding speed, range of skills, where are the goals?
- RC Conor Geekie (W). Best PF at the top end of the draft.
- LD Kevin Korchinski (W). Two-way defender, mobile and smart.
- LC David Goyette (O). Speedy center with skill and two-way ability.
- LC Servac Petrovsky (O). Aug. 2004, slick, skilled, does everything at high speed.
- RW Jimmy Snuggerud (U). Range of skills, scores from a variety of areas.
- LW Luca DelBelBelluz (O). Size, two-way ability, and an offensive spike.
- LD Lian Bichsel (Swe). Big, mobile defenseman with two-way skills.
Edmonton has drafted just two defensemen since the Broberg selection in the first round of the 2019 draft, so if Korchinski is available I expect Edmonton to jump at the opportunity. We’re almost through the major nations now, but there are nine names to go to complete my first round. Where will they come from? Non-traditional nations. That will be our next visit.
COLORADO
We have some time to drill down on the matchups, my first question surrounded the top two lines (MacKinnon-Kadri vs. McDavid-Draisaitl) during the regular season. It might be Nuge vs. Kadri, we’ll see, but here’s how things looked during the 2021-22 season (all numbers five-on-five via Natural Stat Trick).
- Connor McDavid v. Nathan MacKinnon: 24:22, 37% Corsi, 42% Shots, 0-1 goals
- Connor McDavid v. JT Compher: 17:54, 46% Corsi, 57% Shots, 4-0 goals
- Connor McDavid v. Nazem Kadri: 8:21, 67% Corsi, 75% Shots, 1-0 goals
- Leon Draisaitl v. Nathan MacKinnon: 19:52, 47% Corsi, 48% Shots, 0-2 goals
- Leon Draisaitl v. Nazem Kadri: 10:03, 57% Corsi, 71% Shots, no goals
- Leon Draisaitl v. JT Comper: 9:43, 71% Corsi, 89% Shots, no goals
- Nuge v. Alex Newhook: 8:25, 53% Corsi, 20% Shots, no goals
- Nuge v. Nathan MacKinnon: 4:16, 77% Corsi, 89% Shots, 2-0 goals
- Nuge v. JT Comper: 3:01, 14% Corsi, 20% Shots, no goals
These are very small samples, so we can’t read too much into things beyond deployment. Kadri missed one game, so that skews his numbers here. I highlighted Nuge’s numbers v. MacKinnon because they’re such an outlier. There is crossover between players here, so some of the McDavid numbers would bleed into Leon’s time against MacKinnon (as an example).
NEW for The Athletic: Why Jordan Dumais could be NHL Draft steal for Edmonton Oilers.
https://theathletic.com/3337854/2022/05/28/edmonton-oilers-jordan-dumais-draft/
I wouldn’t complain about a right-handed version of Johnny Hockey on my team. 25 points in his last 10 games!
Excellent speed and a phenomenal passer. Might work out with a couple of snipers like Savoie and Petrov as linemates. Or even Lavoie or Bourgault.
Archibald is 0-0-0 and -5 in 30 minutes of ice time.
Probably going to be less effective against the Avs.
You don’t expect some regression? 😉
Looking at the lone game in Colorado, we have a shift chart that tells the story of a hidden battle.
The two Big Macs took the initial puck drop, but Jay did then what is now a common trick of his… pulled 97 off at the earliest possible moment so he could roll him back out there a shift later.
Bodnar responded with matching Kadri for the next three shifts, using the opportunity to at one point get MacKinnon out there against Ryan-Shore-Foegele but the Avs took a Too Many Men penalty, and paradise lost.
Meanwhile Manson is Matching Ceci and Nurse hard against MacKinnon, while Jay did his best to get Drai out against Nasty Nathan.
This went on for most of the game although Kadri did see the odd shift against Drai, and McDavid, MacKinnon. And both the speedy centers tested lower lines. This is in Denver so one presumes Bodnar is okay with all that.
As for Makar, he has an unusual chart. A lot of short shifts and short rests, especially in the first half of the 1st period. Maybe they were seeing what he could do against the various lines because he saw three of them in that stretch. But mostly it looked like Colorado’s preference was to have MacKinnon out at the same time.
And again the most common opponent was the Drai Line and the Nurse-Ceci pairing.
Lines that night were 91-97-56, 18-29-13, 37-14-10, 24-71-44. Nuge and Landeskog out with injury. Smith and Kuemper in the nets.
The heat maps for both teams were shit ass with little heat where you want it: crease front. This is the high danger Corsi that matters. The rest of home plate is too contigent on other variables. Plus crease front action puts a lot of stress on the D and goalie. It’s a difficult place to get an odd man break from or even a zone clear. All HDC here can be relied on.
But neither team delivered. Shots at five-by were 16-11. Oil’s hottest spot was RD driven by Boosh’s five shot attempts and Barrie’s four. Hyman led the forwards with six. There are two warm spots at the bottom of the two circles, Drai office territory. Eleven shots on net is not good.
Likewise, Avs map shows the same issues. Lots of shots from above the circles and a spot trying to form between the hash marks mid-slot. They scored both their regulation goals on the powerplay. Sixteen isn’t much better.
And that’s the game I vaguely remember. Fast, hard-checking, both teams defensively aware and neither able to get much sustained offensively. We lost it on special teams. Avs were 2 for 5 on the PP and we were 0-2. and that’s the other thing I remember about the game… the crowd and the team seemed to expect the beneficial call from the refs, much like when we played the Lightning at Amalie.
Unlikely but possible:
NY Rangers vs Oilers = the SC Finals of the century.
McDavid fighting for the cup @ MSG… yipes
So Leon Draisaitl set the record for most consecutive playoff games with 3 or more points vs. Calgary.
He also had the most points ever in a 5 game series (17), which is also 3rd for points in any playoff series (behind Rick Middleton with 19 points in 82-83 and Gretzky with 18 points in 84-85).
These things we knew.
What I haven’t seen mentioned (it must have been somewhere) is that Leon set the all time single series record for most assists with 15. Pretty sure that’s correct, besting Middleton and Gretzky who had 14 in their already mentioned series.
Evidence here:
https://records.nhl.com/records/playoff-skater-records/assists/most-assists-one-series-playoff
He also set an NHL record for most assists (4) in a playoff period. As well as a record for most points in a battle of Alberta series.
Yes, I forgotten about the most assists in a period record.
Carolina continues to struggle on the road. Down 2-0 in the first despite out chancing the Rangers. Raanta not playing well.
The Avalanche have sure been bad luck for other teams’ first string goalies for the playoffs. Saros goes down right before the playoffs. Kadri took care of Binnington directly. Even Carolina is missing their starter Andersen due to an injury he sustained making a save in a late regular season game against Colorado. Hope that bad luck doesn’t flow to the Oilers.
getting dominated right now 3-0 Rangers
The home team has won every game so far in that series.
If I’m not mistaken, the Canes have not won on the road in the playoffs (nor lost at home) – and, with 9 minutes left and a 3 goal deficit, that looks unlikely to change tonight.
They haven’t lost at home either.
So they’re guaranteed to win game 7.
I’m sure they’re not at all worried.
5-2 NYR. Going to Game 7.
Not only did Shesterkin made 37 saves, he picked up two assists as well.
Does he think he’s hockey’s answer to Shohei Ohtani? 😀
Ha! Yes, perhaps he does.
Calling Stephen Sheps…
The world’s largest whisky bottle, containing 86 gallons of Macallan, sold for a large sum at auction. https://trib.al/47FoH7j
1.Slafkovsky/Wright
3.Cooley
4.Nemec
5.Jiricek
6. Lekkerimaki
7.Gauthier
Per John Shannon:
Oilers will travel to Denver on Sunday, in preparation for the West Final, that starts of Tuesday.
One would assume the extra day will allow for adjustment for elevation, after all Edmonton is at 2200 feet and Denver is at 5200 feet.
Merci
Been there. It’s a big deal. Everyday will matter.
Seconded. Many moons ago, I went road-tripping through the Midwest and spent some time in Ouray, Colorado–and it’s a mile and a half high. My first night there, I felt like I’d had a few drinks in me, and I was completely sober. Was right as rain the next morning though. Denver was a walk in the park after that. 😀
I was both wondering and hoping if they would do this. I too have been to Denver, but live at 3700 and we drove, which makes it slightly easier. That said, it’s noticeable. And I didn’t run, bike or skate anywhere.
This also removes them from the distractions and media bubble of Edmonchuk. Put the blinders on your horses and keep them focused on the road ahead.
Any experts on elevation? When climbing Everest they go up, then back down a few time to acclimate. Should the oilers go hang out on a mountain top in Denver for a day? I kid. How long before a typical canadian is fully acclimated?
Edmonton is a decent starting point compared to St. Louis at 460 feet. I’m sure they’ll be fine by game time, wind-wise. Red blood cells take 3-4 days to make, so just enough time for the body to compensate.
The bigger issue might be dehydration. You perspire far more at altitude and your body burns through more water. A beer here in Cochrane is not the same as a beer in Edmonton which is not the same as a beer in Van City. Same with coffee. They will dry you right out. (I’m keto so that’s another whammy on top).
So the one most susceptible to altitude effects is Smitty. He will have to ensure he hydrates more than usual before, during and after games, although all the players will need to adjust. And there’s no acclimatizing to that.
WTH is Edmonchuck? is that an insult? what’s it supposed to mean?
I’m guessing “Edmonchuk” is a nod to the abundance of Ukrainians / Ukrainian culture in the city and surrounding area?
Also guessing it’s not meant to be derogatory?
It’s been a beloved nickname for the city for ages. Surely you’ve heard it before?
I’ve heard of it before. Have even used it myself on occasion. Just didn’t wanna seem presumptuous, since I’ve never lived outside of Sasky. (And I’ve never heard anyone where I’ve lived using “Edmonchuk”.)
And don’t call me Shirley. 😛
Whatever, Bunny-hug Boy.
😛
Edmonton has also been referred to as the “Big Perogy”. Having grown up in Sherwood Park in the 80’s, I never sensed that Ukrainians found these references insulting or derogatory.
Nester Pester was hilarious.
Lots of Polish and Ukraine people in the area, don’t you know young fellow.
Tye, you have made me feel very old.
Are they skating in Denver yet?
If they aren’t Hope they get there tomorrow for a hard skate on Monday at a Mile high.
speaking of mile high…
I wonder how long it takes to acclimate?
Ha I just asked this above before reading your post. When I went to cusco it took over a week to feel good. I was there a month, and I am not sure I ever fully acclimated. Its 11500 ft though so a bit higher..
They are going on Sunday.
I don’t know if this is interesting but….
I often think about how often a team “ought” to win a cup. If it’s a 32 team league, all things equal, over vast time scales, 1/32 would be “reasonable”.
This is something I l’ve thought of often since trying to rationalize 5 cups since expansion as remaining the high water mark for expansion teams and place our relative historical superiority over the Leafs in even greater mathematical context.
But obviously we’ve been a losing-ish franchise for a while, on balance. BUT!!!!….
Win against Colorado and we become conference champs again after 16 years… in a 16 team conference. Win Stanley (knock on wood) and we check the box 32 years later in a 32 team league.
On pace over a couple generations with 5 cups in the bag already. Deep Time fan thinking.
Everyone here being smarter than the GM’s think winning is easy. But you have to beat 15 other teams to make the finals and you can bet the fans of those other 15 teams think winning is easy too.
Winning requires a conjunction of dozens of factors, the stars have to align perfectly.
Our esteemed host mentions balance, speed, toughness, good goaltending, dealing with injuries, roster depth, there are soo many factors.
Arizona, Winnipeg, Columbus and Minnesota have NEVER made the finals, Seattle as well but they are new. 15 teams have NEVER won a cup.
Toronto hasn’t made the finals in 54 years, Islanders 37, and Florida 24.
Matchups might get you. Some teams are historically better than others and with the current playoff format you pretty much end up with the same teams playing each other every year it seems. Calgary was picked as the favorite this year by most but Edmonton has only lost a series to them once, sucks to be them.
Maybe one way to measure team success would be to assign teams playoff success points in some fashion:
With the Oil making the Conference finals that puts them in the top 4 out of a 32 team league, which is at the 87.5% margin of the League.
I found this webpage which is kind of interesting, but it skews heavily on the original 6 cause they were in the league for so long. Note that Pittsburgh and Edmonton are the top two expansion teams in their ranking and even manage to place higher than the Rangers.
Ohhh, ranking is by Cups won….
Nice. Oilers have the best game winning percentage and the second-best series winning percentage (to TBL who has 22 fewer series).
Calgary is .440 and .375
I know, that’s so cool.
Probably why LT wishes them best of luck at the beginning of every season…
Nicer guy than I that’s for sure.
Interesting take on Ryan McLeod’s (little noticed) contribution against Calgary by The Super Fan “McLeod played against varying levels of competition, and posted a Corsi For of 55% and an Expected Goals For of 60%. In game five on the road in Calgary, McLeod playing just under five minutes against Gaudreau (about 38% of his total 5v5 ice time), posted a Corsi For of 76% (10 CF, 3 CA) and an Expected Goals For of 85%.”
I always enjoy Sunil Lagani’s writing. Full article https://thesuperfan.ca/2022/05/28/reviewing-the-oilers-vs-flames/
Underlying expected goal numbers on McLeod?
The guy can penalty kill and transport the puck but it kinda stops there.
in five games against the Flames McLeod had 114 shifts Zero goals and Zero assists.
Matches the eye test. I (and others) posited that was one of the best games of McLeod’s NHL career.
Anyone know if there are any group/package trips to Colorado available to watch the first two games?
What was the company doing it for LA?
I went to LA on my own and I think it cost substantially more doing it myself.
I’m keeping my powder dry for G5 in Tampa 😉
They used to have self service apartments to rent right next to the beach @ Clearwater – the Tampa Arena is like air conditioned Valhalla after a hard day at the beach.
OilersNation often organizes trips.
I believe that was Newwest Travel.
Team Canada will face off against Team Finland for Gold at the IIHF World Hockey Championships. That they are in the game is great. That it has almost completely been ignored on this Board is even better since everyone has had more important hockey things to discuss, unlike most of the last 16 years at this time of the season.
Is there any word on a Young Stars Tournament in Penticton this summer?
Holloway, Fanti, Petrov, Bourgault, Savoie, Tullio would be fun to watch.
The Canucks announced it is on again a couple of months ago.
prob playing with themselves
It would seem the Kraken will be joining the party.
https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canucks-bringing-young-stars-back-to-penticton-training-camp-to-whistler
Thanks for this
I’ve been to 2 and after our last time in 2018, I will definitely go this year if the Oilers send their youths.
Did you mean the Oiler utes?
What, pray tell?
It’s a reference to the movie ‘My Cousin Vinny’.
Two yutes?
Utes is confusing, depending on perspective. It could be a reference to the Native American tribe from the near-West US.
It could refer to a utility vehicle, if you are Australian.
Or it could mean what you mean, but is more confusing than “yutes” which is still quite a contributor to the confusion, which is to say, yes.
I Cannot wait for this series to start and especially GAME 3 IN EDMONTON – How Loud will Rogers Place be????
OILERS IN 6.
CANES / OILERS FINAL.
DEJA VU all over again with a slight twist at the end !!!!
LETS GO OILERS !!!!
I absolutely love this thought.
I would prefer another Oilers vs. “Islanders” series a la 1983 or 1984, Preferably 1984.
i.e. a match against the two-time defending champions.
I thought about this a few days ago, but here’s my take:
I wanted the Oilers to meet the Avs, because they are the best in the West and it is the best match-up for hockey. Plus the Oilers will be 100% the underdog, same as vs Calgary.
If they make it to the Finals, they need to play TB, the 2x Stanley Cup Champions. This may not be the best match-up excitement wise, Carolina is probably the best and to draw a bigger audience, NYR would be the best. However, I want my team to play the Avs and TB because no one can diminish what they accomplish by saying they had it easy.
Regardless, whoever they would face beyond this round, every other team will be favoured because of defense and goalie and player and coach inexperience and………….Because Oilers.
Oilers vs NY Rangers would be one for the ages.
Tampa would be great to beat
Avoid Carolina(Oilers kryptonite)
Pat Steinberg
@Fan960Steinberg
·
57m
Matthew Tkachuk asked about signing a long-term deal with Calgary:
“Absolutely. I’d love to. I love it here. I love the people here. I would be very open to that.”
Long term deals for both Gaudreau and Tkachuk please.
They will make the same or more as McDavid and Draisaitl and are vastly inferior players.
Make it so Brad Treliving.
On the Gaudreau front it’s a win either way. They either lose an asset for nothing or sign him to a deal it’s unlikely he can perform up to unless he signs for under $8 million.
Pat Steinberg
@Fan960Steinberg
· 1h
Johnny Gaudreau says he’d like to remain with Calgary if everything works out.
“That would be pretty special, to win a Cup here. Calgary is a special place for me and I do really, really love it.”
Yup he’s a goner
what’s he supposed to say…..im otta here? if everything works out to 12M a year
FlamesNation
@FlamesNation
·
45m
Tanev expected to miss 4–6 months after undergoing labrum surgery https://flamesnation.ca/2022/05/28/chris-tanev-injury-calgary-flames/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter… #Flame
#NHL
FlamesNation
@FlamesNation
·
47m
Tanev expected to miss 4–6 months after undergoing labrum surgery
https://www.tsn.ca/connor-mcdavid-undoubtedly-the-best-player-ever-1.1803876
Eric Francis
@EricFrancis
·
1h
“You try to say goodbye to everyone because you never know what’s going to happen.” – Johnny Gaudreau
This is a tell. He knows what’s going to happen.
I could think of a couple of reasons:
Eric Francis
@EricFrancis
Jacob Markstrom said he wasn’t injured and wasn’t tired from 75 starts. Said he wishes he could have played a couple more, and had no explanation for why his numbers vs Edm were so inflated this year.
His numbers have never been very good against the oilers. Not sure why his performance surprises anyone. This regular season aside he’s been around a top 10-15 goalie.
If he wanted a stellar NHL career, he would never have had to face the Oilers if he had signed with them. Unfortunately for him he picked a team in the same Division as the Oilers…..and lucky for the Oilers…
That’s great. Hopefully he plays too many regular season games again next year.
Lineup questions:
Given that Leon is looking loads better and he played a game or 2 against Col this year with the same injury (??), is there an argument for going after unicorns again? They played Col well in part because of their F depth. No? I remember that Ryan-Nuge-Foegle line playing them well.
Also, a slow Nurse against Col is a death sentence, as I see it. Is there a case for getting Broberg up to speed? He has the wheels to skate with just about anyone. His defensive-side of the puck is certainly a question. I definitely noticed his calmness with the puck and relative ease at keeping a stick-length’s gap on even quick Fs. Or is that just too much of an unknown to warrant the gamble?
They play a much better team game now that they might be able to cover that Nurse-MacKinnon matchup but I do worry about their C depth with McLeon on a single line..,
Am I out to lunch on this?
I am onboard with unicorns, but Broberg is not ready. Russell has the speed to keep up, if a Dman need be added.
With respect to moving Nurse out or Broberg in, based on current information, yes, in my opinion you are having a BLT and okra soup.
Not Nurse out, just down the minutes a bit. See if that injury can’t be sheltered.
It does seem like Draisaitl is pretty much healed. NUrse however looks like trouble.
Pray for the best. No chance they are using Broberg IMO. He was good for a goal against every time he played in the bigs this year. Hopefully they bring him along slow like they did with Bouchard. That worked out fantastically.
Nurse has to play within his limitations
He always gets in trouble he tries to do too much hurt or not
If he just protects the house and plays a basic game doing what D men are essentially supposed to do and not add too much he’ll be fine
Limiting Colorado’s speed (basically MacK Makar) is key. But it’s their key to the Oilers as well
Hopefully Nurse isn’t forced to defend either with a full head of steam, nobody really can even when healthy. Angle off, coverage support, protect the house
Nurse led the Oilers D in 5v5 TOI and 5v5 goal differential vs. Calgary.
I still think his injury is being a bit overstated, and I don’t think cutting back his TOI in favor of Broberg is the answer.
I do too. Game 5 he looked near full health to my eye. This short break
sureshould clear up any lingering pain or stiffness.Yeah hopefully the rest helps him more. He likely isn’t 100%, but I don’t agree at all with folks saying he looks like he’s at 60%.
Per Gazolla, mostly Black Aces at today’s skate.
I presume that tomorrow will be an actual practice.
I wonder how much Jack Johnson Mcdavid sees.
hopefully a lot
Based on last night’s TOI it won’t be much if any.
Toews 26:33 – Makar 28:02
Byram 19:25 – E. Johnson 18:50
J. Johnson 9:19 – Manson 14:30
As JT Black pointed out last night it seems Bednar is just spotting Jack in and out while the top two pairings are on the ice for more than 45 minutes.
10 min is still a lot, especially when you got the IR brothers on line 2
Jack will be out against the dregs.
If Woodcroft wants that match up, he will find opportunities to get it. Icings, last change at home, a change here or there on the fly. McDavid only played 15 minutes against Zadarov and/or Gubranson and the team scored 4 and 5 goals against respectively with McDavid on the ice. Not that it matters who he is up against. Hanifin and Anderson were Calgary’s top pair and matched against McDavid (they played the most in the regular season and most against elite) and he lit them up for 8 and 9 goals respectively.
Makar and Toews are a whole other level…two elite #1D
The loss of Girard hurts but Byram has stepped in seamlessly.
They are but of a certain type. There is a way to play small skill D
The Oilers top 6 are big fast and more skilled than St Louis and I think overall more mobile
The Avs have more bigger players in the D group but 2 are slow. 3 are smaller. The Oilers D as a group are more balanced in size and skate better, and all 6 can move the puck
Strategy is everything and execution of course the key. But an even match. I don’t think the Oilers are overmatched at all
No Oiler D can skate like Makar, Toews and Byram.
E. Johnson is far from a pylon and has size to boot.
Manson is a great puck mover and tough as nails.
While Nurse when healthy is reasonably fast, he doesn’t have the edges or mobility of the Colorado trio.
Keith can easily be beat wide and you can bet the Colorado forwards will exploit that.
Bouchard can certainly make great breakout passes but is plodding in his own end and often gets confused in coverage.
Barrie, Kulak and Russell are decent but nothing special.
There’s a reason the Colorado D is considered the best in the league.
In 2022, I’d still take the Tampa set of defense over Colorado’s for the playoffs.
You could certainly make an argument for that but Tampa and Colorado play very different styles.
A clash of the Titans in the cup final would be great to watch.
My goodness that is a deep D corps – even without Girard!
Sure, Jack Johnson has always been terrible, but if you’ve got Josh Manson on your third pairing? Sheesh.
They also have Ryan Murray in the bullpen.
Tampa v Carolina (don’t think Rags can come back)
Avs v Oilers
That is very very good for the league.
Not to pick on BoP who I thought won the thread yesterday, but the replies to his comment below are getting thick and have gone in a different direction. I just want to keep the facts straight.
Ken Holland had nothing to do with Woodcroft taking the job in Bakersfield, which happened a year earlier. And if TMac had still been coach when Holland arrived, he might still be the coach. While he was Chia’s hire, he originally fell off the Detroit tree.
I don’t think people get that about the present Oilers. They play Babcock Hockey, which in essence is what all the top non-trap teams play tactically. Ie possession hockey with defensive responsibility. Woody is a Babcock acolyte (and TMac protege but clearly Jay has eschewed TMac’s Corski focus).
Babcock is our coach, except we got him younger, fresher and cheaper than the original model. That “we do our players the honour of high expectations” line from Woody was originally a Babcock line. I feel very good about this.
From the stories I have heard Jay needed no convincing to ride the buses in Bako. He wanted to go. He wanted to run a bench for the first time in his life. It was the last mountain in his career that needed to be climbed to get to the other side: NHL head coach.
We are here.
Babcock is not a fair comparison to Woodcroft, IMHO, as Woody treats his players with much more respect.
Yeah that’s probably why Babcock is teaching university kids the hockey right now. Nothing works better on young minds than disrespect lol.
Or maybe because the price was right. I o not think he is getting paid and his son is an assistant coach
If he was disrespecting the players they wouldn’t let him anywhere near them.
I didn’t know about his son though, so thank you for that. That is very interesting.
I think he is doing it for nothing to teach his kid. I think it is for to years unless he gets a NHL job. He is hoping that his son can take over when he leaves. Besides maybe the job will teach him how to deal with the modern adult.
If Babcock is shitty to players. His clout would get him much further in a University setting and he would get much less push back from students then he would from famous millionaires..
Babcock might have gotten Toronto over the hump. Will never know.
Sure we know. Babcock was sacked. And he failed.
Never liked his style of Coaching even when winning the Olympic Gold. It was the most boring coaching style of play ever. Hockey is not meant to be played in this manner. I’m glad the wound was still too fresh for Holland to hire him as a replacement for Tippett.
The treating players well comment was more of a compliment to Woody than a criticism of Babcock per se. That said, ask Marner or Franzen about their experiences with Babcock.
Or Mike Commodore
Or Spezza. Babcock is a narcissistic pos.
He can do anything he likes with college hockey players. Its like a lousy professor. They’re stuck with him.
I think he is referring to the strategy employed by Woody, not his temperament or treatment of players. And I’m sure Woody and Tmac tweaked the strategy in their own personal ways.
👆🏻
Thank you, Jimmy. That is the main thrust, yes. But also that Woody is younger and more modern, perhaps more simpatico with today’s players.
so as far as treatment goes, I think Babcock is probably older school than Woody, more akin to the mind games of Bowman. (And both would be a long way say from Eddie Shore and the Springfield Indians.) But that’s speculation on my part, I’ve never spent time as a fly on the wall in either dressing room.
The team meeting Jay held after Flames game one, when many of us here were giving the players passes due to injury or flu, was reputed to be a very hard meeting where Jay laid down his expectations for the team that they were not achieving and what he needed to see from them.
And in the end, what does disrespectful mean? If he’s shouting at the players and calling them out for their effort is that disrespectful? I can certianly see situations where it would be and others where it wouldn’t. So tough to know without full context. But whatever he did, it worked and the players still want to go through a wall for him. Maybe that’s our best judge, here in the balcony seats?
I’d like to try Shore. Hopefully he takes a shine to me and then I don’t have to sell tickets, and make popcorn.
This makes sense. Especially if I understood anything much about hockey coaching strategies.
Chalk and cheese in other words.
Yeah, I thought the same thing: if he’s a Babcock acolyte, it seems to be minus the toxicity.
MacT schooled Babcock in 2006.
Babcock won a lousy 1 Cup with a top ranked team over nearly a decade. Woody is 2 series wins away from equalling him.
Babcock hockey relies on getting away with constant relentless interference. That’s not part of Woodcroft’s system.
I think the most likely way that Keith considers retirement is if Holland tells him his role next year will be the 6-7 defenseman while they integrate the young guys. A mentor role with lots of PB time. Kind of the new Krusty. If he’s not up for that, he might call it a day. He’s a proud guy, I could see him realizing the writing is on the wall and it’s time to move on. I don’t see him as a scout or coach. I think he’s a hockey player to his core and won’t be interested in any of the roles that people want him to take just for cap reasons. Just my opinion….
No chance he retires.
our best option is to package him with assets to Arizona State University or Columbus for a buyout with agreement we bring him back with a new 2 mil one year contract (500k pay bump for playing along)
The trade option to the University Coyotes would be ideal. Can OP or Speeds confirm whether dead cap space (buyout) would help ASU reach the cap floor?
Omg, I love that. Speeds to confirm, that’s a throwback!
I don’t think Speeds has posted here in decade?
Yes, it would.
So who replaces Keith as 2LHD?
He just played 25 minutes in the series clinching game on the road. I see no scenario where he retires or plays the 6-7 D role. He clearly has game left.
And why would he retire and leave 5.5 on the table?
He most definitely is not leaving 5.5 mil on the board. That is his cap hit
he has 1.5 mil on the board hence my proposal to trade buyout and re-sign above
If they want Keith to retire next year, the best chance of that happening is to win the damn cup!
Go out a winner and Oilers would have a chance to repeat with the huge cap savings, this would be a dream scenario.
If Keith retires he really impacts the CBH’s cap due to clawback. I doubt he screws over a team he spent 16 years with and won 3 cups.
Who knows about that tainted legacy.
He’s a man who apparently really loves his son and wants to be a big part of his life.
If he wins another cup this spring all bets are off.
This is the way.
Keith won’t retire. He’s currently a top player in a semi finalist NHL team.
I suspect Jay is keeping the dynamite combined as a duo.
Young McLeod will need to hold his head above water like never before.
Imo we will see Nuge/Hyman against Mac with McSaitl up against slewfoot Kadri.
Can they use 71 as strictly a Makar shadow?
I’d like to see JP get a shot lol
Not sure if anyone mentioned it yet, but Dave Manson will be coaching against his son. Great experience for the family.
https://mobile.twitter.com/adater/status/1530437905503490048?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Dad texted him pre game yesterday and told him to win so he can come see his grand daughter next week. Great story!
I asked that yesterday has there ever been a Dad who has Coached against his son in the playoffs, my first thought was the Sutter Clan.
Really? One of them has a kid that’s playing?
Sutters would mean brother coaching against brother, not father/son.
I suppose Brent could’ve coached against Brandon, but Brent was out of the League long before before his son was in it.
Brandon is Brent’s son.
Brandon?
Strange things can happen on a farm when individuals are lonely.
Brandon Sutter is the only 2nd generation NHLer from that family. His father, Brent coached NJD vs the Canes in 2009, Brandon’s rookie season with Carolina. Brandon did not play a single playoff game that season.
So if it has happened, it was not a Sutter moment.
I remain heartened when I see the likes of Mikko and Shore very much involved in post-game celebrations. Seeing Shore’s exuberance shows me that these guys do continue to feel part of the team and involved.
Russell was also in video across from Shore during the fantastic hopping happy Connor clip as he came down the hallway post game
I mean I’m that excited and I don’t even know these guys
Woodcroft has got buy-in from the whole team. I loved his quote the other night when he said something to the effect that ‘whether you are playing 24 minutes or 4 minutes, you are important to the team’. And now we have evidence that this attitude has extended to those in the press box. I am very doubtful that this would have happened under Tippett. Woody is a gem of a leader and as a person.
Was just thinking that if they make the final they should fly Klefbom out.
Excellent idea. Klefbom was a beauty.
Yeah and a decent hockey player, too.
Yeah, obviously.
So the Oilers are off to the 3rd round. Randomly wondering if we’re going to give Holland credit yet?
Hyman
Keith
Ceci
Smith
Foegle
Kulak
Kane
Some of these were incredibly controversial and sparked a lot of debate. Each of these players have made significant contributions. Ultimately winning is everything and I’d say this has been a pretty good year so far. Keith contract is moot now. He’s been one of the best D and big minutes guy in the playoffs. I worry about Smith. If he plays like he did against Calgary it will be a short series. But overall I’m happy with what he’s done. We need also remember no single GM in the NHL has gone through his tenure without making mistakes
When you shop at the Dollar tree for goalies you have to be very happy with Smiths play
Foggy hasn’t done much. Zero points. HS x 3 in the playoffs.
12 goals during the regular season, but I’m not sure you couldn’t have got a similar player for less than $2.75 and no asset loss.
Year after year we had a terrible bottom 6. Foegle at least kept his head above water which we haven’t had. If Holland could of got one with no assets I’m sure he would of. And bringing in Keith there was no room for Bear who hasn’t I don’t think played in the playoffs for Carolina.
Whole thread about it higher up the Keith cap thing was always about the second year.
I’m with you on this. Holland is not getting the respect he deserves. As far as making mistakes, all managers make lots, and Holland admitted himself, that you do your best to evaluate the player and if your lucky to get them, you hope that more meet expectations than not.
Putting together a successful team, (emphasis on team) I suspect is much more complex than people like to suggest in their comments. Woody and staff seem to have been the catalyst for the team building.
Would be interesting to know the decision making in letting the d coach go along with Tippet. Was it Hollands evaluation or was it Woody who indicated he wanted him along for the ride.
Playfair was Tip’s guy and Manson is Woody’s guy – I think that was a no-brainer for both coach and GM.
Holland is doing okay considering the nightmare he inherited from that assclown from Boston.
Random thought – what probably impresses me most about Leon as a hockey player is his ability to elevate.
Ever time it looks like Connor is pulling away, every time the media light shines solely on 97, along comes 29 right alongside. He finds another level and goes there.
Speaks to his confidence, inner character and passion for the game so highly. You love to see someone doing exactly what they’re built for, and running flat out toward what they want.
Leon is like Jean Beliveau. And not just a cheap facsimile.
Leon is really like Beliveau.
Its been a LONG time since we needed to look in the 29-32 range for our 1st round pick…..
We’ve never had to, have we? Up until 2000, those picks were all in the second round, so years previous to that are all out. Under the current system, our 2006 first round pick would have been 29th overall, except that that system didn’t come into place until 2007, so in 2006 our pick was 17th based our mediocre 2005-2006 regular season performance…and we traded it to Minnesota for Dwayne Roloson anyway.
(I’m too lazy to check whether there were any years in which we traded for another team’s 29th-32nd overall first round pick, so I’m just going to assume that there weren’t.)
I liked that season when Lowe went to the draft and came away with dogshit players like that defenceman from Calgary who totally sucked, plus two other problematic and destined to fail prospects. JF Jacques might have been one of them, before Pat Quinn put him on the 1st line.
Good times.
Murder trial in Peace River!
Do they have any local lawyers in Peace River who handle murder cases?
Asking for a friend.
For years, the top criminal defence guy in PR was Rob Marceau, but he got appointed to the bench a couple of years ago. There are still a few defence lawyers in town, and I expect that at least some would handle murders, but I’m not positive.
Sounds like a lot of lawyers.
Years ago, I was mc’ing an event that was all lawyers. Black tie for charity, impressive room. I got everyone seated, the head table was piped in (Edmonton ALWAYS pipes in the head table at these things) and clergyman blessed the meal. I told everyone to enjoy themselves and we’d be back to begin the formal part of the evening right after dessert was being served (there’s a little window there).
Anyway, as I sat down, this guy walks up to me (in his 50’s, I’m thirty years younger). I don’t know if he sensed my nervousness but he said ‘tell this joke and they’ll love you’ and I did.
The joke? What do you call 10,000 lawyers chained to the bottom of the sea? Answer: A good start!
I saw him later, thanked him. Asked him what he did for a living. Lawyer. 🙂
I would trade the pick this year. Maybe in a package for another player, or attached with a player to shed cap space, or traded down for two 2nd rounders.
Looking at Seattle’s four 2nd-rounders (from Tankathon link posted earlier):
35, 49, 58, 60
Assuming 35 is off the table, would a combination of 2 of the other 3 work?
That’s probably close to fair value.
Just noticed…the Oilers cannot pick 30th, only 29th, 31st or 32nd.
https://www.tankathon.com/nhl/draft_order
Slots 29 and 30 are reserved for the conference final losers and are sorted by regular season points. Since the Oilers have the fewest of any remaining team, they automatically get the higher (29th) pick should they lose the WCF.
Still holding out for #32 though. 😀
Just want to say a couple things that have sank in over the past couple of days:
The last time we had a deep playoff run, I was in Grade 6. Old enough to remember it, but not old enough to make the most of it (being sent to bed early on school nights for the late California games). Still, even though I was an Oilers fan before, that was what turned me into a fan that wanted to watch every single game, soak up all of the statistics, and read all that I could about it (blogs included). It sparked my love for the sport.
The decade of darkness that followed was not an easy one to be an Oilers fan, but my love of the team never wavered, because I knew how good it felt when they had success. The thing was, though, is that kids a few years younger than me never got to see the Oilers being successful. They never got bit by the hockey bug. I worked a lot with youth in coaching and other volunteering, and was shocked by how few of them liked hockey…and the ones who did like hockey were never fans of the Oilers, but instead fans of the more successful Penguins, Blackhawks, Kings, or Bruins.
My life has since come full circle, and I am now teaching a Grade 6 class. I’m watching them be bit with the hockey bug in real time, in the exact same way that I was 16 years ago. After every playoff game we have a conversation the next day about how it went. Kids who only used to make fun of the Oilers because they have been a joke for most of their lives are starting to believe and cheer for them. Three kids who always go straight home to play video games the rest of the night even decided to start skating lessons and join a hockey team. More than 80% of the class watched at least a part of the series against Calgary.
I know people are loving this cup run, but I just wanted to provide a bit of my perspective on just how important this cup run is for the youth of our city. It’s creating a whole new generation of hockey fans, and more importantly Oiler fans in Edmonton, in a way that hasn’t been seen since 2006. It wasn’t just the lifelong fans who needed this, but also the new ones who didn’t know that there was an Oiler fan inside of them waiting to get out.
Great post. Loved hearing this perspective.
This is awesome! I love to hear these kinds of stories.
I met a family last Sunday who moved to Edmonton from China in 2006. Driving around the City the mom and 3 year son were fascinated by all the car flags and commotion regarding something called “Oilers”. From that moment a seed was planted.
When he was old enough to play, he signed up. His buddies next door were from a hockey family, so it made for an easy decision and his mom became immersed in and whole-heartedly embraced the role of hockey mom.
The second son came along a couple years later and also played, but he never had the level of passion of his brother for the game. He is 16 and no longer plays.
The mom was the first person who I’ve had a great in-depth face-to-face Oilers discussion with in a few years. Her passion for the team totally shone through while conversing in a very loud & busy Calgary eating establishment. She said her oldest son, who played for SSAC, is even more of a fanatic than her.
It was a really cool experience for me. My wife really enjoyed the experience as well, as her interest in watching the Oilers really kicked up a notch in probably late March. Her transformation took only 7 years, but now she insists that we need to buy jerseys (I only have hoodies, gave my Copper & Blue blank jersey and my Eberle jersey away to a buddy who collects and frames them for his YYC man cave a few years ago).
It is such an amazing time to be a fan of this team!
Nurse needs to be healthy against Colorado.
If Nurse backs in to Mackinnon like he continuously did against Backlund it’s going to be a short series.
Sadly we don’t get peak Nurse the rest of this season. Hoping he or Manson can somehow adapt his play,
I was being buried for suggesting Nurse is not recovered from his injuries. Colorado is 5 levels of speed faster then either LA or Calgary were, not sure how Nurse guts this one out.
I’m not on board with “McDavid vs. MacKinnon”.
Drai vs. MacKinnon is a legit match-up.
If anything, I’d add McDavid vs. Makar to that.
Makar is a massive factor. I do think they Woody and staff will have a structure and plan to deal with him.
I’ll let Jared Bednar know you’re not on board with McDavid vs. MacKinnon. I’m sure he’ll respect your wishes and avoid that matchup. 🙂
Hardy har.
Of course, I’m speaking to how the series will be marketed.
That label is a disservice to McDavid as Nathan M. isn’t in his tier, he’s trying to hold on to the same tier as Drai.
This is a point worthy of serious discussion, despite others letting the air out of your tires before you can get out of the parking stall. But first, is it an area of concern for Jay? How did he run the duo against the Avs this year? We have three recent games to look at.
And I’m not sure your thrust here. Are you just complaining about the hype or are you worried about actual match-ups? I’m hoping it’s the second.
One thing is for sure. We cannot assume that the Glimmer Twins will be split, OR that they will be together. He ran them apart earlier in the season with success, so I’d lean in that direction for Gm 1, but who knows.
If Jay can get some mile-high matching in, I expect Drai to be on the ice when Makar is on the ice.
Oilers will be picking between 29-32. I liked Noah Ostlund and Liam Ohgren but they will be gone before Oilers pick now.
I wonder if the Oilers take a chance on Ivan Miroshnichenko at 29-32 if available
I’m looking at Goyette, Firkus or Pickering at that point. I also like the Swedes you mentioned and might add Bystedt to that list.
I’d wager Kenny will look to recreate the magic of Savoie, Tullio by trading down to the 2nd and accumulate one or more extra picks. I’d be more than okay with that, I think the talent and potential is fairly consistent from the late 1st to mid 2nd round.
The Oilers might have considered Miroshnichenko if they had more early picks, but given the lack thereof, they’ll probably go for a safer pick.
I imagine a team with multiple picks like Arizona, Seattle or Montreal might take the gamble. Wouldn’t surprise me if TBay did either.
Of course, there’s a caveat that the Oilers could do like they did last year and trade down slightly and gather more picks that way.
Also, if the Keith trade condition vests, we’ll retain our 3rd-round pick this year after all. (We just won’t have a 2nd-round pick until ’24, barring other moves.)
Good point
I echo Tarkus in his comments regarding IM.
This will likely be a very unpopular view. There are enough players bubbling under with offensive potential in the organization that the first player picked later in a relatively weak draft doesn’t need to bring offense. The player I have circled is Noah Warren.
No matter how many times I’ve gone through the lists and watched video, I can’t help but be impressed. He’s all over the map from a late first to 3rd rounder, but he has that size, speed, athleticism that is hard to ignore. He does not apparently bring much offense, but the shutdown potential he has, is what this team lacks on RD.
if they trade the 1st for a 3rd and an early 2nd, Noah is my 1st pick, with the knowledge that he will take 4-5 years to arrive.
More on Noah, despite his “lack of offense” he still put up 24 points as a depth defender on a Gatineau team that boasted four defenders who had 30+ points over a 68 game season. On this team Noah was a 3rd pairing defender and did not get any power play time. One thing he clearly needs to work on is his shot, it’s pretty muffin-like.
Offense aside, watching his season highlights, as well as Gatineau highlights, he doesn’t often appear in goals against highlights and normally when he is, the scoring play is not on his side. From the most optimistic lens I think he could be a substantial defender in the mould of Chara, minus a booming slap shot, but with superior skating.
I also want to mention Maveric Lamoureux, because like Warren, he is a great skating giant RH Dman in the QMJHL and he is projected everywhere from a 1st to the 3rd or later rounds. BUT, you can’t teach size….Both players are in their 2nd season in the Q.
M GP:54 G:4 A:20 PIM:69 -30
N GP:62 G:5 A:19 PIM:52 +17
So Lamoureux is on a weak team, but he is the #2 Dman in offensive production by far. The #3 & 4 Dmen had 1 goal and 24 apples combined. So he likely got lots of TOI on PP. I do not know if he was on the top pairing or on the 2nd pairing, but certainly he would have had a lot more playing time per game than Warren. And he got scored on a lot.
The other issue with Lamoureux is his poor awareness and poor defensive positioning. In my view he should be picked in the 3rd to 4th round at best, but he would not be a player I would ultimately spend a pick on.
He may be seen by a savvy organization as having more of a future as a forward, because his wheels are impressive for that size.
I like Noah too, but Noah Ostlund. He’ll be gone before Oilers pick
You are correct.
Assuming they pick in the 30 spot, which are your top 5 in that consensus range?
I think we can all agree that the promotion of Jay Woodcroft has had a massive impact on the hockey club. The team has played with more tenacious defensive structure which effectively transitions into an effective offence that counterattacks on the rush and generates numerous chances off the cycle. The power play has not dominated as it did under Tippett but the 5v5 numbers are strong. In short, the HC understands the necessary approach for winning in the playoffs and the team is executing this system with full buy-in.
In game tactical adjustments have worked, the team bounces back well from losses and adversity, and every player on the roster has a role and is invested. At the midway point of the playoffs, Woodcroft has slain his longtime mentor and a Jack Adams nominated HC with rings, resume and an odds favoured roster. Rookie Head Coaches aren’t supposed to do this but the talented ones almost always surprise coming out of the gate.
Ken Holland deserves some credit for this.
Jay Woodcroft was not his guy. Yes, Jay was formerly a Red Wings video coach but Chiarelli hired McClellan. Woodcroft was McLellan’s guy and the natural assumption was he’d follow TMac to La La Land.
Fortunately, Holland saw something in the young assistant and convinced him to ride the buses in the A to stay a part of the Oilers org. I think it’s fair to speculate that the promise of the major league gig was floated as a carrot down the road to make this happen.
This is what Ken Holland does. He invests in people like Woodcroft, McLeod, Kane, Smith, Barrie, Puljujarvi, and RNH and they repay this trust with loyalty and buy-in. Barrie, Smith and Kane were all castoffs from numerous organizations but they’ve found a home here and are highly productive. Turning other team’s discards into a winning hand. This is what smart managers do.
This is not the OBC approach where it’s not what you know but who you know AND it’s not the hired gun approach where you just grab the biggest names on the market (Heatly, Chiarelli, Ference, McLellan, Hitchcock, etc.) as a convenient quick fix.
This is a patient GM playing the long game to build development pipelines for players AND coaches. This is a savvy GM bringing in players (Keith, Ceci, Kulak) who’ve gone deep in the playoffs and can settle his young phenoms when nerves and Adrenalin can threaten their composure.
Duncan Keith’s cap hit is too big. Yes, that’s a thing. But let’s not lose sight of the big picture here. There are a LOT of positives with this org right now with Jay Woodcroft at the top of that list. The man who hired him deserves some kudos. Well done Ken Holland you Magnificent Bastard.
Holland does deserve credit, and I believe most people are willing to acknowledge the fine work of Woodcroft, Hyman, Kane, Ceci procurement. Along with that is deserved criticism for the massive cap wound the Keith contract and burden on the roster.
If Edmonton wins Stanley, none of this will be remembered by most Oilers fans. It’s winning that counts. Glen Sather traded Miro Satan for very little. No one remembers.
Win. That’s it.
Ken found a way to mitigate the Lucic contract when no one thought that was possible. He may work similar magic with Keith next season. Plumb job as Western Canadian scout? Keith is definitely a hockey lifer. Wouldn’t surprise me to see him walk on his final year for a chance to get onto a management or coaching training track.
I must be the only guy on this blog who is okay with Keith’s contract.
Did he not lead this defense in time on ice in Game 5?
Did he not play top 4 minutes all year for this team?
Isn’t he the perfect partner for an emerging Evan Bouchard?
How much do you think we should pay that guy? And could you get a similar defenseman to sign for only 2 years?
Keith’s contract is the perfect bridge to Bouchard, and hopefully Broberg, sliding into top 4 minutes.
You’re not the only one. But I must confess, I’d prefer Keith’s cap hit next year go towards signing Kane.
Maybe Holland has a plan to keep both without buyouts
Truth be told, the Oilers lost the Lucic trade.
I mean, sure, they got rid of a terrible contract but they took back a contract that was almost as terrible.
They got half a season of great play out of Neil but, for the rest, he’s been “outplayed by Lucic” but, what’s most important is the Oilers gave up the 2nd, are still paying $750K on the cap for Lucic plus the $2MM buyout for three more years.
Yes, the buyout has provided some relief but, overall, that trade does not look very good any more (although I am happy to have that person and attitude away from the team).
——
Is there any indication that Keith wants to get in to management or coaching and, if so, at this time, over playing hockey?
I think too often we as fans tend to overestimate the results of a transaction, rather than the process. I am happy with the trade today, and back then, if only because the Lucic contract could not be bought out.I suspect Lucic would not have performed even close to an adequate level here, simply because of the pressure of the contract.
This logic also applies to Holland’s failure to address the goaltending issues. This is a massive fail. It was at the time and it sill is today. Just because Smith has so far proved adequate in the playoffs does not give Holland a pass for failing to address the issue.
This trade is not done yet, Tre has a tough decision on Lucic this summer.
Nope, its not done – the Oilers will still have a $2.75MM cap hit for Lucic next season and be down a 2nd rounder – no matter what happens with Lucic going forward.
If Tre keeps Lucic he is going to have a very hard time getting all his stars signed. He is going to have to give up Lucic and another asset to sign all his stars.
That would be a massively expensive trade to make, if its even possible – which it might not be.
Lucic will be on the final year of his deal which was heavily front loaded.
He is due a signing bonus of $3 million in July with only $1 million salary remaining.
When Calgary pays the signing bonus, his cap hit will be very easy to move.
Since he waived his NMC for the expansion draft, I would think he would be happy to move closer to home in Seattle.
Seattle wants Lucic why???
Tre might be able to trade Lucic to one of the 8 teams on his trade list after his signing bonus is paid. His salary would only be 1 million. However, all Lucic has to do is list 8 teams up against the cap and Tre is boxed in.
It would be shocking if Keith hung them up
I am sure he thinks he’s playing well and his coach gave him big props
If I had to bet I would that he’ll play past this contract
Maybe on a team deal in the Rusty role
Especially if they are contending
A couple more cups on his resume. I think players of that caliber think if their legacy in the pantheon. It’s their dream and their whole life, at least working life, up to this point
But the Oilers didn’t give up the second 😉
Today Lucic is the second most expensive Flame signed to the club. The Flames have to deal with Lucis this off season. Tre exposed Gio and Lucic at the expansion draft he would have been in a much better situation is Gio stayed and Lucic wen to Seattle.
on Keith knowing what we know now – who and what deal was a better for an experienced 2LHD? Leddy, OEL, Gio, Ghost, Zadorov?
Given that Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton; the cities close to Penticton all acquired an expensive LHD the rumor Edmonton was alone in the deal seems an incorrect assumption. Is there a direct quote from anyone in the know that Bowman only had one option for Keith? The evidence 9 months later suggests he could have kept Keith who was under contract or he had four legitimate teams looking for and experienced 2LHD.
Seattle acquired Giordano in the expansion draft at no cost of assets withe an eye to moving him at the deadline which they did.
Calgary exposed Giordano in the expansion draft because they needed the cap space and believed their young D were ready which they were.
Vancouver was laser focused on OEL because Benning wanted to move out a ton of dead cap space.That transaction was more than a year in the making.
Its no rumour.
And how did those three things work out for those three teams while Duncan Keith is still in the playoffs??
On OEL you add another rumour to a rumour to claim “Its no rumour”?
Should I laugh at how clever you are or seriously question your logic?
Seattle was in complete control of who they choose from Calgary not the other way around.
Here were the options for Seattle.
Other than perhaps Kylington, I don’t see another attractive option.
Seattle got three draft picks for Giordano when he was traded Toronto which is a pretty big haul for an older player on an expiring contract. None of those others would have come anywhere close to that.
Seattle ended up with Gio and Quennville (from Calgary and CBH); If they has chose Lucic and Keith and traded Keith at the trade deadline for 2 draft picks.
Given that Quenville played in he Swiss league last year. In my rear view proposal Seattle would have 2 draft picks and an NHL player. What they ended up with is 3 picks
Sutter probably missed Gio for the playoffs, given his comment about his young D being not ready for it.
You seem to be flip flopping on the OEL deal now. When it happened you thought it was a genius move crafted by the Sedins, then you thought it was a “dumb” trade, and now you are crediting it as a laser focused plan years in the making to alleviate cap space. Which one is it?
The trade allowed Vancouver to dump a whole bunch of bad contracts and acquire a very serviceable defenseman.
Benning, at the time of the trade, expected OEL to be his #1LD and his contract ($7.26 cap hit after Arizona retained) is not out of line for that expectation.
Benning could have waited out those contracts instead punting the cap problems down the road but I’m sure he had a mandate from ownership to make immediate improvements.
I see a 4th take of yours on the situation has emerged:
Now ownership is pulling Benning’s strings.
I guess this take of yours is better than the Sedins trying to assemble their own Team Sweden as you suggested before.
It was a shit trade.
Quit trying to revise history.
Duncan Keith was never worth what the Oilers paid.
He’s still not worth what the Oilers paid.
Win and we’re willing to let it go, but don’t try to make it sound good.
Nobody is trying to revise history. This a respectful debate on a hockey blog with 11 months more of information. If “It was a shit trade” what is the alternative last July?
Who was the alternative to Keith? Edmonton had a massive need for a second pairing left shot defenseman. Who would you have added that was cheaper and less term? Just curious.
Kulikov would have been less expensive, Caleb Jones might have been able to get the team to Broberg or (more likely) the deadline. The Keith deal probably has massive impact this summer (unless Kinger’s theory on retirement becomes reality). If it doesn’t, then the issue becomes far less aggravating. If Edmonton has to trade Jesse Puljujarvi this summer, it’s going to be a big story for many Oilers fans.
What do you make of the anecdotal reports that Holland sought McDavid & Draisaitl’s input on the Keith acquisition and both were bullish on it?
Does that influence your perspective at all?
Puljujarvi has 2 goals in 12 games this playoff. I’ll gladly take Duncan Keith over that and Caleb Jones 7 days a week.
If the Oilers were to with go with Kuikov (HS in 4 of the 6 play-off games this year) – Jones was 3rd pairing on a non play-off team this would be a very controversial move.
The Oilers would have had $5.5 million to spend elsewhere. That’s a pile of money.
Wouldn’t that be less the $2M to sign Kuilkov at 2LHD?
Yes, so there would be $3.38 M to add another piece.
No. You want the best player available. Always.
They were down Klefbom. You don’t replace him with two lesser lights and call it square.
If that was a trade the pitchforks would be out.
This is the correct take imo. I think the cost of acquisition for Keith was the first time I ever lost it over a trade and gord knows there have been some doozies over the last several decades.
As you say the cost of has not been fully calculated yet. Making it to the 3rd round provides some salve for the self inflicted wound and I always think winning on the ice is more important than ‘winning the trade’ but it was a hard pill for me to swallow at the time.
Well we had already tried Caleb Jones, so running that back would have been a poor idea. I doubt that kulikov would have signed here after the way the playoffs went. Both those players might have worked with the new coaching staff but not with the old.
Also Edmonton is on a lot of no trade list and not many US born free agents come across the border.
Yes there is always options, but as fans we don’t really know who is an option. And the money to pay Kane wasn’t an issue in the summer. Yes Edmonton will have to move out some players for cap space and it will suck. But it won’t suck as bad as losing in the first round.
The Oilers probably don’t finish with home ice advantage with Jones or Kulikov instead of Keith even up to the trade deadline.
Jones was a healthy scratch on numerous occasions for the Blackhawks this past season including half the games in the month of April as they are looking to their next season. That’s not what you do if you’re grooming Jones for the future.
Kulikov was mostly 3rd pair for the Wild and was terrible for the Oilers against the Jets. Oh and he was a healthy scratch for the first 4 games of their series against the Blues, came in the next 2 games and played awful for them in those 2 games.
Holland needed to get this team over a hump. That was a this year problem. Keith was one of the ingredients he believed the team needed and he traded what he had to to get him.
To be clear LT, I would be very comfortable in a multiverse where the Oil hired you for the GM chair. You have the chops for the job and would surely be smart enough to surround yourself with the right people to augment your skills.
The blindspot you have however imo is you underrate the impacts of expensive veterans and overrate the impacts of cheaper prospects with potential.
We are in win now mode with Connor and Leon. In that mode, what Duncan Keith brings now has far more value than what JP may deliver on his next contract. The former is a known quantity. The latter is still very much an unknown.
Don’t discount the value of the bird in the hand vs the shiny new toy. My two cents.
Btw can I be your contract negotiation killer in the multiverse? I’ve been known to drive a hard bargain.
I’m absolutely human, so blind spots and bias are part of the package. 🙂 Still, I do believe the cap crunch this summer will be an experience, and the Keith contract will have an impact. Hope I’m wrong.
Come on, do we seriously think that the Oilers are in to the 3rd round of the playoffs with Caleb Jones and Philip Broberg competing for 2LD.
Keith led the D in ice time in the game that eliminated the flames.
I was asked about an alternative and suggested Jones/Kulikov until the deadline.
We don’t have to agree on this, OP. It’s okay. There are MANY things Holland did this season that worked out, and Keith played well during the season and in the playoffs.
He got pasted on the Keith trade. If he wins the Stanley, no one will remember. It doesn’t change the deal in the guide and record book and both things (Stanley win, losing a trade badly) can be true.
This has happened before. The worst trade in history happened in May of 1967. Boston won two Stanleys because of it. Chicago, who lost the deal, made it to the SCF in 1971.
Two things that look contrary can be true and not fatal.
We don’t have to agree. Of course, I’ve never said that the trade was good at the time it was made and have cited the cap being the reasons the entire time.
I was simply responding to the position that having Jones and Broberg as 2LD options for this season and my opinion that, if that was deployed, this team wouldn’t be anywhere near the 3rd round of the playoffs and probably not even the playoffs themselves.
I believe that Keith is an important piece on the team now and a reason they are where they are. There were likely other ways that a couple meh assets and $5MM of cap space could have been spent – who know where that would have taken the team, who knows what effect that would have had on Bouchard’s development, etc.
That’s not what I said though. I didn’t say Jones and Broberg as 2LD options, I said “Kulikov would have been less expensive, Caleb Jones might have been able to get the team to Broberg or (more likely) the deadline. The Keith deal probably has massive impact this summer.”
So, I was suggesting Kulikov (or other) and Jones helping, with an eye to the deadline and Broberg possibly (he was not) being ready. That’s not a ridiculous approach, Holland has done exactly that in the past.
Right, so one of your options was Caleb Jones instead of Keith, as a bridge to Broberg, for most of the season.
I would suggest that is a pretty massive down-grade on Keith and could have have highly negative effects on the season’s outcome.
You would have had to use Jones for sure if Kulikov didn’t work out/got hurt. Jones had an uneven season in Chicago, but showed progress, and you would have an RFA you could trade or sign at reasonable money, with $5.3 million saved to sign Kulikov and upgrade goaltending last summer. Plus the pick.
It was not a great trade, OP. It worked out because Keith had a fine year and was not overexposed against elites (Nurse played not far from twice as many minutes versus elites). That doesn’t change the trade.
Glad it worked out, would love for the Oilers to add some analytics help before dealing Puljujarvi, Yamamoto and Bouchard, etc.
I’ve never once said it was a “good trade” – i was responding to your alternative choice with an opinion that it would have been much worse for the 2021/22 Oilers.
Ah, so it’s Kulikov and Jones that are your issue? I understand. I hold both of those players as having value, but understand if you don’t think they could have helped.
I don’t think that we could replace Keith in the 2021/22 lineup with Kulikov or Jones (or Broberg) without negative results.
And it more or less failed in 2021. Jones couldn’t stay in the line up on merit. He isn’t yet a permanent fixture in the line up on one of the worst teams in the league. Koekkoek was okay, and Kulikov was terrible in the playoffs 2 seasons in a row. He was pulled for Kris Russell who finally could play by game 4. Nurse had to play 30 minutes a game against the Jets and 62 in the 4th game because there was no viable bona fide full time 2nd pair left defense on the team. The bandage solution didn’t work once, so he chose not to do it again.
LT-Could you please explain to me why it would have to be JP that is the sacrificial lamb? They will have again on a value deal which I don’t see coming in at more than 2 mil….
I don’t think Puljujarvi is coming in at $2 million. If Holland does that, I’ll give him major credit. My own feeling is that Evander Kane will be the target and someone making money (or about to) is leaving. I don’t know it will be JP, but he would be attractive to other teams and perhaps another contract can be added to Puljujarvi to help the Kane signing.
Any thoughts on what the terms would be for Kane?
After his playoff performance he might be in the $8 million range.
Can the Oilers go there?
If it’s that far, no way Edmonton can get there. I think they’ll try to get close to $5 million and tack on an extra (four?) year. I do agree that Philly or LAK could go big and game over.
Or perhaps Calgary if they lose Johnny.
Kane and Tkachuk would be interesting.
Yeah…was thinking that myself…would have a lot of bite.
When they lose him.
That might actually be the best long term solution for the Flames if his ask is too high.
The cap hit freed up could garner a pretty good player or two.
If they buy out Monahan and trade Lucic they’ll have a ton of cap space to work with.
If Monahan hasn’t been medically cleared to play by July 13, when the first buyout window closes the day before free agency, they might not be able to buy him out per the CBA. A player on LTIR can’t be placed on waivers, which is the first step in the buy-out process. Until he is actually cleared to play, they can’t be sure he would ever be able to return. The second buyout window is only available to them much later if they actually go to salary arbitration with another player. They said he’d be ready by training camp, but that isn’t until Sept 11.
Sounds like Monohan is ahead of schedule:
Pat Steinberg
@Fan960Steinberg
·
4h
Sean Monahan had hip surgery in April and is five to six weeks ahead compared to recovery from his last hip surgery, per GM Brad Treliving.
Says Monahan should resume skating in the next few weeks. #Flames
Of course, from the position of “tons of cap room” to needing to buyout players and trade Lucic (which is essentially an impossible task).
Just FYI (although I’m sure you know this) – that 2nd buyout window opens upon filing for arbitration even if the case is settled and the hearing never happens.
Kucherov was skating Mar 13 for Tampa last year after his hip surgery and wasn’t cleared to play till mid May. Different hip issues, different recovery time, yeah maybe. Certainly Kucherov had no motivation to get better any quicker. But I can’t see Monahan busting his ass to get cleared just so the Flames can buy him out and that deadline is only 6 weeks away. Maybe he is ready by then and that option is open to them if they choose it. It would save them $4 million this year (they would still be carrying ~$2 million for no player) and add $2 million in 2023/24. On the 2nd window, the key point is, even if available to them, it is well past the free agent signing period to provide them any cap space for chasing anyone.
For the last two summers Holland has tried to sign a goalie. He is going goalie hunting again.
The Kane experiment worked out perfectly … he played so well in Edmonton he priced himself past what Holland can afford. Congratulations to everyone.
Skinner & Smith. Pretty sure.
That does look like the plan.
a pure rookie and 40 year old goalie seems too risky to not look at the market .
Risky for sure but a better bet than Smith & Koskinen this past year imo. Not sure why I feel that way but I think Skinner is more reliable than Koskinen when Smith is unable to go for a stretch due to being old. 😉
I would look for a journeyman vet for the Bake though – just in case.
There have been some “reports” that Fanti isn’t far away from NHL ready – I’m not holding my breath though.
Skinner was better this year (in the NHL and AHL) than Husso was last year (and at every stage of pro development) and younger.
You never know but Stuart could be legit ready for 40 games as 1B.
I have more confidence in Skinner than I ever had in Koskinen so I am more comfortable with that pair than I was last summer. I don’t know anything about Fanti so can’t comment but I think Holland has been around long enough to know that a 41 year old and a rookie requires a plan B just in case.
I’ll be shocked if Holland can get Kane at “close to $5 million” without going 7 or 8.
The cap hit has to work so the number of years is the leverage.
This is true. Bearable, if they can get some freedom from or in the clauses.
And term of course is the biggest issue/fear with Kane.
LT-As far as I know, he won’t be signing long term and I don’t see Yamamoto doing so either. As far being attractive,Yamo right now based on the playoffs has the greater appeal. I agree that Kane is the priority, and so he should be based on what he has shown. I see Holland moving Kassian,Barrie,Foegele etc……to keep his RW depth. If you move JP, who is a good replacement?
I don’t think there is a replacement for JP internally. Hyman is better at LW. You could go:
Kane-McDavid-Draisaitl
Hyman-Nuge-Yamamoto
Holloway-McLeod-??
Foegele-Ryan-Kassian
You could sign Kessel or deal JP for Zadina or Kunin? No chance you get full value on Puljujarvi if you’re shopping him.
LT- Are you assuming Draisaitl stays on the wing? I think they need him at center. Why not buy out Kassian? Removing JP to me is the wrong move to make if the above lineup is going to be filled by Zadina or Kunin.
I would move heaven and earth to keep Puljuajrvi and Yamamoto, so am onside with your thoughts there. I believe Leon in the middle makes sense, although having the nuclear option is a good thing. McLeod’s development will make things interesting in this area.
Legit 2LHD acquired last off season were;
Keith, Gio, OEL, Zadorov, Ghost, Leddy, Schmidt, Suter, Dillon, Graves, Edler, Forbort, Hagg, Butcher, Dunn, Soucy and Olesiak
The entire group has flaws – Each player would have attracted some critics for the move.
I don’t think this a fair question. There are 31 other teams in the league. Dmen get moved all the time. You can only assume there were other options out there.
I am a big Woodcroft fan. He seems like a lead by example kind of guy. His loyalty to his players is obvious and I am sure his players reciprocate it. It’s a far cry from the “If you have to ask the question” days. I appreciate that he says what needs to be said whether it is the truth or not.
I wonder if our string of old school coaches struggled to connect with the new generation of players. I have nothing against McClelland, Hitchcock or Tippet, their careers and longevity in the league speaks for themselves. But maybe their styles aren’t as effective with the young guys anymore. I look at Sutter’s inability to rally his players after game 2 and wonder the same thing. Maybe that is unfair to Sutter, who had an outstanding season, but losing 4 straight to a team that you were heavily favoured to beat is not a good look.
Coaching reminds me a little bit of what I do. It’s a results based gig. Generate wins early and often and you’ll get and sustain the buy-in necessary to grow your influence.
I’ve managed multimillion marketing budgets for two separate market leaders and if I don’t turn that investment into more $s, I’ll be replaced by someone that’s likely younger and hungrier.
Being able to engage and motivate your young talent is crucial but ultimately they’ll be loyal to the results. If they see you as someone that can feather their nest, they have your back. If not, the knives will come out. Survival of the fittest.
Lets not forget, Ken Holland wasn’t just looking for experience and playoff experience, he was looking for Stanley Cup winning experience and a player that was a major part of cup wins, a core member of the leadership group.
Ken Holland wanted Duncan Keith specifically. I’m sure Holland knew that $5.5MM was too much cap for specific on-ice performance but he was willing to bite that bullet to get the specific player he wanted and the various attributes that came with him.
Knowing the $5MM is expensive, the two year term is perfect as a bridge to Broberg.
Any legit 2LD in free agency was going to need a MUCH longer term, of course.
I believe that Woody was initially hired as Condors’ head coach prior to Holland for the 2018/19 season, no? Holland was around for the 3-year extension.
With that said, I absolutely, 100% agree that Holland should get full credit for the Woody hire. Taking aside it was a bit of a gutsy move to fire Tippett as Holland had preached “stability” since his hire and, of course, he had never fired a coach in-season. bringing up Woody and Manson was the risky play.
There was a TON of pressure to turn the season around and bringing in a head coach with zero NHL head coaching experience was a risk and, of course, there were two ex-NHL head coaches already on the bench – that would have been the “easy and safe” move – Gully!
Just like he should get for Kane, full credit to Holland for the Woodcroft hire.
I also want to add that criticism for his statement that the plan was to extend Tippett is ridiculous in my opinion. Of course the plan was to extend Tippett. The plan was to have a successful regular season and playoff run, with Tippett as head coach and he would have earned an extension based on team success and merit.
It didn’t go that way and Holland pivoted!
I don’t think hiring Woody was a gutsy move. He hired someone he could easily dispose of in the off-season had he failed to deliver results. Yes, he could have hired one of the assistants instead, but promoting Woody instead cannot be considered gutsy IMO.
Failing to deliver results would have been catastrophic.
Another way to see it is Woody was the safe hire
10 years NHL bench experience, Holland has known him for years and watched him closely in the Bake. He knew all of the players and the org system
There’s also the fact he would most likely lose him and Manson to another team, the time had come
For me I can’t look past that Holland was going to re up Tipp
We knew it, he said it. What had he not noticed in the years with Tipp? The team was playing well below the roster. Completely disorganized, riding emerging stars.
Players losing motivation and some being ignored and opting out mentally. Two spectacular playoff flameouts
Is it reasonable to say Tipp was a no brainer and should be kept? Not for me and it’s more than just this season
We got sooooo lucky and dodged a very big bullet
This and poor cap management is why I can’t be all in in Holland. The mistakes are big. He has got some better players, but he sure can’t find the cap value contributors that are the backbone of other contenders
Or change them in and out as each new cap season dictates to stay at the top. Any GM can use Connor as bait and go get obvious players and corner themselves in the years to come, when Connor and Leon will still be fantastic
For me I can’t look past that Holland was going to re up Tipp
We knew it, he said it. What had he not noticed in the years with Tipp? The team was playing well below the roster. Completely disorganized, riding emerging stars.
Players losing motivation and some being ignored and opting out mentally. Two spectacular playoff flameouts
Is it reasonable to say Tipp was a no brainer and should be kept? Not for me and it’s more than just this season
We got sooooo lucked and dodged a very big bullet
This and poor cap management is why I can’t be all in in Holland. The mistakes are big. He has got some better players, but he sure can’t find the cap value contributors that are the backbone of other contenders
Or change them in and out as each new cap season dictates to stay at the top. Any GM can use Connor as bait and go get obvious players and corner themselves in the years to come, when Connor and Leon will still be fantastic
I don’t think giving him credit for this season assumes you’re all in with Holland in perpetuity. His contract/cap management will always be a concern for me.
But too many people are anointing the HC and players right now without giving any credit to the GM who brought them together and that doesn’t pass the smell test for me. This level of success isn’t a happy accident imo.
Results over process vs. process over results. It’s a dividing line in human nature. 😉
Holland followed a process. He has access to information in making his decisions that people on here or the rest of the public do not. Analysis of public data, by mostly amateurs, suggested that Keith was done, or at best a 3rd pairing defenseman. While we weren’t provided a full analysis by Sportslogiq, a professional NHL analytics group, they publicly wrote in an article that they thought Keith could be a good fit in Edmonton before Edmonton even acquired him because of what he is still good at. Clearly Holland believed Keith could still adequately fill the role of 2nd pair plus bring some leadership to the group. It was a risk, like all player evaluations are, but it wasn’t an accident that he was right.
My comment was in response to Bag of Pucks about those who refuse to give credit to Holland. In general terms they are those who are unhappy because they think that the Oilers have an inadequate analytics team. They judge the process first and foremost.
I know that Holland has a process but I also know that people in positions to make decisions – and do it successfully – weigh all the information. But where decisions are close or ‘judgement calls’ the information is ambiguous. In the end they involve gut feelings that defy explanation by process.
The team is in the 3rd round of the playoffs so the result has easily passed the test of success. Had the Oilers not found a way to get past the Kings the conversation would not be as understanding for those who felt the process was faulty.
That was all I meant.
I was one of those who was happy to have Keith but unhappy with the cap hit necessary to acquire him. And as our host notes the full cost is yet to be determined when new contracts are required for other players.
Yes I do agree that this team is really good also because of Holland. I value the normalcy he brings and respect for everyone, it’s fantastic and really important
Which is why in my musings he’s POHO and not gone
To reframe my concern it’s about sustainability which for me is the bigger part. I think he’s a bit stale dated and we’ve seen first hand what a more modern and hungrier approach can bring
The stability and wisdom thing is for mentorship roles, too much contentment isn’t a good thing in a hyper competitive situation
He’s got his accolades and baubles already
We also continue to see what experienced NHL executives can do.
Dean Lombardi born 1958, NHL GM since 1996. Stanley Cup Champ 2012, 2014
Jim Rutherford, born 1949, NHL GM since 1994. Stanley Cup Champ 2016, 2017
Brian MacLellan born 1958, Capitals Management since 2001, GM in 2014, Stanley Cup in 2018.
Doug Armstrong, born 1964, NHL GM since 2002, Stanley Cup Champ 2019
Not a Cup winners as GM, but Carolina’s GM is Don Waddell, born 1958 and assistant GM to Holland in 1997. Atlanta Thrashers GM 1998-2010. His team may still make the final 4, while Dubas and Zito watch from home. Kelly MacCrimmon took what McPhee did originally, bet the farm and it remains to be seen where his team goes after missing the playoffs this season and clearly screwing up on the cap.
Even Sakic has been a GM since 2013. He has had MacKinnon for 9 seasons, plus Landeskog was already there, plus he netted a haul because Duchene, O’Reilly and Barrie had been drafted in 2009. Yes he turned those 3 in to good players, but they were and are good players themselves still today. He just now got that team to the final 4.
Of course he was planning on extending Tippett – the plan was predicated, of course, on a successful regular season and playoff run.
The plan did not come to fruition and Holland pivoted.
You are upset with Holland for thinking about but not ultimately not resigning Tippet?
I hated the trade for Keith based on the value out the door, which seemed unnecessary given the player coming back and the cap hit. That said, despite a tendency to get walked, he has been very solid on the second pair with a rookie for the second half and playoffs. And while we as fans may not value intangibles and experience, 97, 29, and the rest of the Oilers almost always talk about Keith first when discussing the mental side of the game (keeping an even keel, responding to adversity). We can’t quantify how much that has helped this team get through a lot of ups and downs through 2 rounds, but I think it would be foolish to say it doesn’t matter. Clearly it matters to the players, including our all world superstars.
Are you including cap space as in “value out the door” because, if not, we are talking about a tweener d-man and 3rd rounder (maybe 2nd).
Yeah, I am. Basically at that cap hit Keith had pretty much no value. Unless there was some bidding war that we don’t know about, and that seems unlikely. So anything out the door really is too much, unless you are benefitting from getting rid of it. I think Caleb Jones has/had some promise, and a 3rd isn’t nothing. If you are going to actually pay for that player after the last couple years, I think you need some of the cap retained. I’m no GM, but I thought Holland probably could have gotten him for free or near free had he been willing to grind. Maybe I’m wrong.
I don’t disagree that the trade was not good due to taking on the full cap hit.
I ask the question because, as far as value out, if you take away the cap issues, Jones and a 3rd for Keith is a massive win.
And could be part of the reason Bowman wouldn’t retain.
What are the chances that we see Leon move back to pivot, centering his own line? Looks like his health is bouncing back. By his own admission, he’s “fine”.
We still haven’t seen him do his patented power move along the wall where he turns his back to the opposition, protects the puck using his butt and moves around looking for open space or someone to pass to.
Watch the Nurse goal in game 5
Cmon. Drai does this multiple multiple times every game. He clearly isn’t 100%, or he would be doing multiple multiple times now. It is a huge part of his game and a common way he keeps pucks alive in the ozone. Maybe he’s healthy enough to play centre, but the injury has changed the way he approaches the game.
He looks to be skating MUCH better – better “push off”, some stops and starts and edge work, better puck protection on the boards, etc.
At the same time, I/we really have no idea how limited he is (or how much pain he is battling through) (or how often they are shooting him up with the cortisone, etc.).
I do think Jay W.’s preference will be based on match-ups. He broke up the a historically hot line in order to get a match-up (Kane vs. Tkachuk) and, if he feels its for the best, he will break up McDavid and Leon for match-ups I’m sure.
At this point, I’m comfortable either way – for now.
For me Colorado is a mentally fragile team and MacKinnon is wound as tight as they come
From what I’ve read and heard from an Avs fan who reads about them, I don’t think they are as tight a group as the oilers are now. For once the Oilers aren’t the most fragile team!
MacKinnon sure didn’t sound super confident when asked about the Oilers. He knows they can be a handful, and it would be hard to outgun them. And that his team isn’t really more defensively disciplined
I would leave the spectre of Connor and Leon together dancing around him in his dreams for a few days. He has to beat them. I know he’ll try his damnedest, but that is a huuuge responsibility and ask
Take he and they out mentally asap, and hope they implode under the expectations all around
Being the underdog is a blessing in disguise other than home ice advantage, but a split helps that a lot
That Oil-Flames series really put the “mostly” in”Hockey is mostly goalie.”
Hopefully Smith settles in as he was sharp against the Kings at the end of that series.
Is there any chance Klefbom is ready to play in September?
Or by Tuesday?
Last official report from Holland was back in February (I think). He mentioned that Klef was doing well in his rehab and his training but had recently suffered a fairly material set-back.
Nothing official since then, however, last week, there were pictures of him playing pickelball for what that’s worth. Its definitely not NHL hockey, but its something.
If Klefbom was training and skating in Edmonton this July that would create a few new options.