Tyler Benson is officially on a rehab assignment and will play a few games for the Bakersfield Condors. It’s uncertain if he’ll play for the big club, or get waived at the end of his rehab for the purpose of getting him to the American League for the heart of the 2022-23 season. No matter what happens, Benson’s season age 20 was exceptional and shines like a diamond this century.
Tyler Benson (18-19 Bakersfield Condors) 68gp, 15-51-66 .97 Benson was an exceptional rookie, aided by fellow rookie (21 years old) Cooper Marody. The stated reason for keeping him on the farm was to have a full and healthy season, but we’re several years on and Benson isn’t an NHL player. His passing ability alone makes him a candidate for (very) late blooming.
Rob Schremp (06-07 SWB Penguins) 69gp, 17-36-53 .768ppg Schremp had a tough first year pro, getting benched a few times and was a healthy scratch a few times too. His coach did have some nice things to say about him and Oilers fans were certain he would be a star. Reminder No. 1,000 actual skill players don’t spend 69 games in the AHL age 20.
Jarret Stoll(02-03 Hamilton Bulldogs) 76gp, 21-33-54 .711ppg Stoll had a big shot and often played the point, but he also had two-way skills and a fair complete game. He was traded at 25. One of the best NHL careers in the group of men who played for Edmonton’s AHL farm teams age 20.
Marc Pouliot (05-06 Hamilton Bulldogs) 65gp, 15-30-45 .692ppg Pouliot played on a shared team (like Stoll) and put up excellent results. Injuries impacted his career progress and he would finish with fewer than 200 NHL games.
Jean Francois Jacques (05-06 Hamilton Bulldogs) 65gp, 24-20-44 .677ppg Jacques had a helluva pro debut and his size and speed made him a promising prospect. He lost a lot of momentum due to back injuries and may have lacked ‘hockey sense’. Most famous for a stunning scoreless streak as an NHL rookie.
Kailer Yamamoto (18-19 Bakersfield Condors) 27gp, 10-8-18 .67 ppg Yamamoto is one of my favourite players from this era. He bombed along in the AHL, turning over pucks and creating chances for linemates. He emerged as a legit NHL player and posted a 20-goal season in 2021-22.
Dylan Holloway (21-22 Bakersfield Condors) 33gp, 8-14-22 .67ppg His scoring rates in the AHL as a rookie may have been suppressed by two offseason surgeries on his hand. Holloway is a dynamic player, I think he may post superior numbers to most on this list once he makes the NHL.
Teemu Hartikainen (10-11 Oklahoma City Barons) 66gp, 17-25-42 .636ppg The big Finn was a pure delight and the first 20-year old AHL forward in a couple of years to show up on the radar. He was a little shy on speed but I loved his hands and spirit.
Kyle Brodziak (04-05 Edmonton Roadrunners) 56gp, 6-26-32 .571. Brodziak has a nice combination of size and skill. His AHL debut at 20 came on a very poor offensive team. He improved during his entry deal, finally emerging as a legit NHL player about the time Edmonton traded him.
Jani Rita (01-02 Hamilton Bulldogs) 76gp, 25-17-42 .553ppg I thought Jani Rita would make it, swear to God. I remember at WJC goal he scored (it was real, and it was spectacular) and also saw a few AHL games in which he always looked like he was having an impact (plus he could score goals, 63 in 204 AHL games).
Slava Trukhno (07-08 Springfield Falcons) 64GP, 14-21-35 .547ppg. I loved his passing, Trukhno could really find the lane. He had a nice debut but was a bit of wide body skater and I don’t think Edmonton had a tremendous need for a slower skill LW at the time.
Raphael Lavoie (20-21 Bakersfield Condors) 19gp, 5-5-10 .53 ppg. Disappointing numbers for a player who has the best shot in the group since Jarret Stoll. Still matriculating, and there is some hope, but the competition in Bakersfield is fierce.
Xavier Bourgault (22-23 Bakersfield Condors) 12gp, 3-3-6 .5 ppg. The numbers are a little disappointing so far but it’s early. Like Holloway, he’s constantly around the puck and making astute plays. My guess is that Bourgault lands around Yamamoto-Holloway levels.
Bogdan Yakimov (14-15 Oklahoma City Barons) 57gp, 12-16-28 .491 ppg Big man with some skill, foot speed was the concern and he didn’t play long in the Oilers system.
Marco Roy (15-16 Bakersfield Condors) 48gp, 8-12-20 .480 ppg Roy didn’t get an NHL deal from the Oilers, but outplayed the forwards who did get one. A true curio, he was a two-way center and a second-round pick.
Carter Savoie (22-23 Bakersfield Condors) 7gp, 2-1-3 .43ppg Just getting started, Savoie’s shot should get him power-play chances and he could spike this season. One thing that has impacted Savoie: Playing time early in the AHL season. He should be playing more, Condors have too many veteran forwards.
Josh Winquist (14-15 Oklahoma City Barons) 46gp, 8-11-19 .413ppg. Impressive offense from a player who didn’t get much of a push (or an NHL contract).
Ryan McLeod (19-20 Bakersfield Condors) 56gp, 5-18-23 .41ppg McLeod’s speed was the big selling point early, but he’s developed into a legit NHL player. As this ranking shows, the offensive side is the concern.
Phil Cornet (10-11 Oklahoma City Barons) 60gp, 7-16-23 .383ppg. He looked like a tweener from the start, and his AHL debut showed he was shy offensively.
Tyler Pitlick (11-12 Oklahoma City Barons) 62gp, 7-16-23 .371ppg. He scored pretty well in his WHL season, at many of the goals at even strength. The Oilers slow played his AHL rookie year and he got hurt too, those injuries impacting his pro career.
Greg Chase (15-16 Bakersfield Condors) 19gp, 1-6-7 .37 Chase had impressive junior numbers and there was some buzz about him. The AHL totals age 20 suggested an NHL career wasn’t imminent.
Kyle Platzer (15-16 Bakersfield Condors) 48gp, 6-11-17 .35ppg Platzer had a nice range of skills and some impressive junior numbers. Offense wasn’t enough to get him a feature role in the AHL.
Ryan Martindale (12-13 Oklahoma City Barons). 41gp, 6-8-14 .341 He showed well in a couple training camps, you could see the size being an advantage and he could pass the puck. He didn’t deliver enough offense in the minors.
Tyler Tullio (22-23 Bakersfield Condors) 11gp, 1-2-3 .27 ppg Tullio’s skills give him some advantage over the pure skill kids. He can play multiple roles and that means playing time. I’m looking forward to seeing his splits between first and second half this season. More than any true prospect on the current roster, his playing time has been negatively impacted by veteran Condors forwards.
Curtis Hamilton (11-12 Oklahoma City Barons). 41gp, 5-6-11 .268ppg. A wildly disappointing pro debut based on his final junior season, Hamilton never did get untracked during his entry level deal. Improved in year four and made it to the NHL but more was expected.
Kirill Maksimov (19-20 Bakersfield Condors). 53gp, 5-8-13 .25 ppg. Maksimov had some strong support coming out of junior, but only two forwards from this group who scored at similar (or lower) levels were enforcer types.
Jujhar Khaira (14-15 Oklahoma City Barons) 51gp, 4-6-10 .196ppg. He has enjoyed one of the most productive careers on this list. Offense always a problem, Khaira was an effective checker and brought and edge to every shift.
Travis Ewanyk (13-14 Oklahoma City Barons) 68gp, 7-5-12 .176ppg. Ewanyk had a lot of nice things but the offense in junior foretold his pro future.
Zack Stortini (05-06 Iowa/Milwaukee) 64gp, 2-8-10 .156ppg Low event offensive player. Got all he could out of his career and should be remembered as a guy MacT played over many more talented kids.
Mitch Moroz (14-15 Oklahoma City Barons) 66gp, 5-4-9 .136ppg. Big man came off injury at the end of the Memorial Cup and then had some issues in the AHL, among them ice time. His offensive game was never going to be enough for an NHL career.
Kale Kessy (13-14 Oklahoma City Barons) 54gp, 2-4-6 .111ppg Enforcer who didn’t move the needle offensively.
A CONVERSATION
Man there’s a lot of misses there. I think Holland will get more from the pipeline than previous general managers. He has a track record of being patient and finding useful pieces that take a little time.
Guys like Schremp and Hartikainen were never going to make it. Schremp posted 1.84 pts-60 at five-on-five for the 2009-10 New York Islanders. He had a 50 percent goal share and 53 percent expected goal share that season. Teemu Hartikainen had an severe offensive slump at exactly the wrong time (zero points five-on-five in 194 minutes in 2012-13), then went to the KHL where he was productive for almost a decade.
So you’re saying the men in the modern top-10 above will do better because of Holland? I’m saying the Oilers are no longer flushing everyone as quickly as the before times.
Kailer Yamamoto and Ryan McLeod aren’t established yet. I’m not sure of your definition of established, but Yamamoto’s 199 games are enough for me to say he’s established. He’s also posted a 20-goal season in the NHL. Jarret Stoll and Kyle Brodziak are the others on the list to accomplish the feat one or more times.
Ryan McLeod will never make it to 200 NHL games. He’s a regular currently, has played in 98 games already and should pass 200 some time in 2023-24. His offensive output at five-on-five is shy, but his possession numbers are good and his career goal differential in the NHL is 32-40 (44 percent). That’s a superior number to most everyone playing bottom-six F in Edmonton during McLeod’s time. Zack Kassian, Derek Ryan, a few other forwards have fared better, but among full-time centers McLeod is near the top.
Raphael Lavoie is a bust. I don’t agree. In fact, this year he’s had more impact in games and is more consistent. I think you can say the competition for playing time and feature minutes is more substantial but Lavoie is 2-1-3 in six games and has had some great looks in most every game.
Your man Dylan Holloway is looking like matzah balls in the NHL. He gets plenty of touches as an NHL rookie and is making the mistakes of youth. You’d like to see him higher in the lineup, and scoring goals. However, he’s had his chances (including a penalty shot) and exceptional speed and passing skills will allow him a career. I do agree we don’t know about the offense yet, but he gets enough chances to project as a strong candidate to play on the top two lines eventually. I believe Holloway will have a career. Might score like Andrew Cogliano (12 goals per 82 games for a long time) or might score more. He’ll play in the NHL.
Tyler Benson has played his last NHL game. Admit it, recapture some credibility! Benson is an Oilers player currently, he’s on rehab. I expect he could get some games this season but could be waived and slide right through as well. He’s trying to reinvent himself and that rarely works, but does have exceptional passing skills. I admit he may not play much or at all in the NHL from here, but Holland is a guy who has a lot of patience with the prospects in the pipeline.
Let’s talk Xavier Bourgault. Is he any good? Yes. I believe he’s the most likely to have an NHL career among the rookie forwards in Bakersfield this year. He’ll pick up his scoring from here (substantial chances from the start and some bad puck luck recently) and would suggest a Yamamoto-Holloway level expectation is fair.
Carter Savoie or Tyler Tullio? Different player types and now that we can see them there is a story unfolding. Savoie has the great shot and is a better passer/more creative than I thought. Plus he gives effort in the defensive zone although there’s a bit of running all over the place in his defense. Tullio appears closer to being fully formed as a player. He’s dogged on the forecheck, makes smart plays with the puck even if it’s just to avoid danger, and gets into tough areas for retrievals. I like them both, suspect both men have a longer AHL career than Bourgault.
Is the system delivering enough talent? Since 2019-20, Edmonton rookies include Evan Bouchard, Ethan Bear, Caleb Jones, Ryan McLeod, Stuart Skinner, Philip Broberg, Dylan Holloway, Markus Niemelainen, Tyler Benson and William Lagesson.
Is that good? Compared to Edmonton’s own past, yes. Most encouraging are the first-round picks who have developed and later-round selections who have made their debuts. The group remains heavy on defense, but there are forwards shining through and (huzzah!) an actual goaltender. I think Holland uses the farm system far better than previous general managers in Edmonton.
Looks like the baby oilers deploy the same penalty kill tactic….
hunter1909
November 18, 2022 9:51 pm
Was also meditating on the pathos in the Oilers and the only thing I can imagine is Holland gets off of his old arse and brings in a top defenceman veteran immediately to fill the gap left when constantly maligned by most everyone Duncan Keith left.
Keith gave the Oilers defence a shot in hell of winning. This new defence is just terrible. As in Abandon all Hope terrible.
Poor Campbell. Expected to play like Grant Fuhr without Coffey, Lowe, McSorely, Huddy, Smith, and Gregg.
Last edited 1 year ago by hunter1909
hunter1909
November 18, 2022 9:49 pm
Decided to take a couple of Budvars(Czech lager), while thinking about how happy I might be for Boston this season, I hope they come out of the East and unless Oilers spring a miracle and make the finals(I kid) I hope Taylor Hall wins his first NHL professional championship.
Tarkus
November 18, 2022 9:38 pm
Summarizing!
Wanner led the charge tonight with 1+1 in a MJ win. That’s 9 points in his last 6 games.
Brind’Amour and Lachance also tallied for their squads.
Petrov, despite 4 SOG, did not find the scoresheet and his point streak ends at 14 games.
Määttä was also held pointless but had a strong night on the dot, going 14-for-20 (70.0%!).
Münzenberger did return to the lineup tonight, even though he too was pointless on the night, as was Chiasson.
maudite
November 18, 2022 8:23 pm
Where’s a chandler Stephenson, Marchment, kubalik when you need one lol.
Anyone have any players on radar that might be 25+ before breakout
Last edited 1 year ago by maudite
OriginalPouzar
November 18, 2022 8:22 pm
Savoie takes a pass on the defensive wall, bobbles its a bit, leads to him getting whalopped and a turnover and the Wranglers score.
Chaulk has been known to bench young guys for that (it was bad).
OriginalPouzar
November 18, 2022 8:02 pm
Looking forward to seeing how Rodrigue does as the new #1 (although Pickard won’t be out as long as first feared given how bad it looked):
Maybe the players were galvanized by the crowd, and are playing for Lindy?
Tarkus
November 18, 2022 7:19 pm
Lachance gives Youngstown the lead with his 5th goal in the last three games, 9th overall on the season.
Tarkus
November 18, 2022 6:49 pm
After picking up a helper earlier in the game, Wanner gives his Warriors the lead as his point shot is stopped, but he swoops in to pick up the rebound and backhands one upstairs:
Weekend here. A dram of Glen Moray poured and feet up. Time for a retro record recommendation!
Try Pete Townshend’s White City for this solo Who’sters usually tasty stew of brainy lyrics, impeccable musicianship, stellar production, and ear worm melodies.
It’ll climb in your brain like Dan Rather listening to What’s The Frequency Kenneth?
I used to drink Isle of Jura way back when they still used a pirate 18th century bottle and the whisky tasted like peat. One time returning from 5 hours in Emergency at the hospital (tetanus shot for a knife wound) Isle of Jura gave me one of the finest drinking moments in my entire life – as I knocked back several upon returning home around 4-5 AM.
Without my staple whisky, I have been forced to alternate between more expansive and better quality than I really deserve models; and also Glen Moray which has become my lowest price and still drinkable cheap but quality choice.
Terrified of your mentioning this brand of whisky and barely remembering the brand name, I went to the cupboard and there it was a unopened bottle of Glen Moray.
That’s certainly what I was thinking. Poor fellow.
OriginalPouzar
November 18, 2022 4:49 pm
Draisaitl says his ankle is much better but he still feels discomfort at times. “I spent a lot of time working on it, rehabbing but it’s still there. I still feel it. It’s an injury that takes a long time to be completely gone, to be honest,” he said.
In theory – of course, Tulio scratched to night and Baily makes his season debut.
SayItAin'tSo, Gretz, SayItAin'tSo!
November 18, 2022 3:59 pm
Intriguing lines. Not opposed, curious to see how this works. Speed across four lines.
Janmark with one wild one week, AHL winger to McD’s flank, nice. He should be motivated.
My ask for Kostin is to teach his linemates to drive to the net. And to shoot more. And be more aggressive. Too much deference right now, need someone to start driving the bus. Holloway could jump up if he plays well.
Harpers Hair
November 18, 2022 3:52 pm
A fascinating discussion this afternoon on Dimitri Filopovic’s PDO Cast (highly recommended for intelligent hockey discussion) about potential trade destinations for Erik Karlsson.
Obviously any team considering it would be all in to win now.
If SJS we’re to retain half would be just shy of $6 million for another 4 seasons.
He would be a perfect RH partner for Darnell Nurse…what would the Oilers need to send the other way?
And if you get Karlsson you have to move Barrie while you can so would need a 3rd team involved
OriginalPouzar
November 18, 2022 3:39 pm
Of note, Justin Bailey is now healthy and playing for the Condors tonight and he’s likely a non-zero option for the Oilers going forward as a big body with NHL experience (82 games).
He’s on an AHL deal now but that was required for cap purposes as an NHL deal would have hit the cap and caused issues with him being out to start. Not sure if they were going to sign him to an NHL deal if he wasn’t hurt for term to start but, depending on his play for the Condors, he could be in the conversation.
The Condors get two players who haven’t played this season who are both potential NHL options in the short term.
Bag of Pucks
November 18, 2022 12:38 pm
So Holland could have traded one or both of either Yamamoto and Puljujarvi for actual players or picks. Instead he’s going to manage these assets by watching them play their way down the depth chart and eventually off the roster.
How is this maximizing the value of your assets?
There are posters on this board that suggested JP was not a legit top 6er two years ago. Some of the same posters suggested Yamamoto was not a legit top 6er especially for a long playoff grind at the time he was drafted!
How can our crystal ball be better than the GM’s? There’s patience with prospects and then there’s failure to project your talent properly. This is the latter and it could conceivably cost the Oilers dearly.
I would add that Holland’s crystal ball on his own players should absolutely be better than any GM in the league given that he watches every game they play and they do not. That is a core expectation of the job. Holding onto players that are trending down the depth chart is akin to holding a position in a tanking stock with no credible promise of recovery. This is not asset management best practices. It’s wishful thinking.
Jesse was at $1.45 million while Yamamoto was at $1.75 million.
Jesse signed a $1.175 MM contract in 2020/21 for two years after returning from Finland, and Kailer followed suit with an identical one year contract the following season. Both pacts expired this past offseason where they renegotiated for $3 MM and $3.1 MM respectively.
What’s more important is that the “information” provided about past contracts for Yamamoto/Puljujarvi had NOTHING to do with the conversation relating to their value diminishing since this summer (AFTER those contracts expired), etc. – it was simply an excuse to point out their current higher cap hits.
Was there not reasonably evidence to suggest both had value? I think our JP pulled numbers the other day to confirm Yamo is no more injured than any other player on the roster. (15-20 goals, speed, turnovers)
And both provided enough help to legitimately beat out competition for those top 6 spots.
As the team evolves, both Yamo and Jessie no longer have to beat out Shore, Nygaard, Kassian, or Benson, but they have to compete against a higher level of internal competition.
Question is if there is any evidence today, and it is reasonable to suggest Holland could have or should have gone a different route this summer.
My opinion, Yamo has ability to contribute in top 9. His size is not beneficial, but his quickness is. And his ability to do what he can physically while at a disadvantage can be motivating. But this year, he simply is not. Injured yes. But even before injury he didn’t have his usual zip. Not much evidence so far. I think this may be a time or a year where he is faded and Holloway steps in.
I’m still mad they didn’t dump shultz and yakupov on Philly at start of season after shortened season (couturier was available and Philly was death spiraling. There was also literally a fit between the two clubs actual perceived needs as well) but:
I have no problem with a GM exploring market and accepting that even though he’d probably like to the market to trade wingers this off-season was probably the worst it’s ever been.
I do wish he would have paid maybe a 2nd to send away a body and have at least 22/23 man roster as I truly thought the teams running skinny 21’s would probably wish by deadline they would’ve paid for flexibility…but he would have had to pay dearly to offload any of the 3 – 3 million dollar men.
It wasn’t a “sell high” opportunity
It wasn’t a “sell reasonable” opportunity
It was a get screwed or forget it.
20-21. 82 GMS 22 G 15 A 37 PTS
21-22. 82 GMS 18 G 28 A 46 PTS
YAM FRY extrapolated:
20-21. 82 GMS 12 G 20 A 32 PTS
21-22. 82 GMS 20 G 21 A 41 PTS
Both players are 24 years old.
So you have 2 – 24 YEAR OLD Right Wingers who should be entering the prime seasons. Both have shown improvement year over year coming into this season. Both project out based on last season, to be 20 Goal 40 Point players.
Those are the type of players you want to move on from? Remember Tyson Jost career numbers are very similar to JP’s. Jost was traded last season for Nico Sturm.
So although you could be right, that the 2 young wingers should have been traded, would you be Happy if we got back 2 Nico Sturms?
It’s Holland job to maximize his assets. Both Yamo and JP have completely cratered value now. A number of us saw this coming a mile away while he sat on his hands hoping 6&7s would magically turn into face cards.
Yup. That’s the job. He has to accurately forecast the 6&7s most likely to trend upward and discard the ones most likely to trend downward. He can also trade them for picks and start the trendline anew. Nobody said picking winners was easy.
You have to know when to fold them and many on this site could recognize that when Holland could not.
They were tradeable assets as recently as last season.
I agree they were tradable, and think they still are. But you said not trading them ‘could conceivably cost the Oilers dearly’, which implies a substantial return was possible.
I would add that Holland’s crystal ball on his own players should absolutely be better than any GM in the league given that he watches every game they play and they do not. That is a core expectation of the job.
It’s tempting to also extend this to hockey fans and blog posters. It remains possible that Holland has not, in fact, failed to properly project these players.
I guess that’s my other main issue (aside from you expecting Holland to be able to get value from assets which you believe to be junk) with your post. I don’t agree their value has completely cratered.
Even with all the injuries right now I think its time to send Holloway down along with Devin Shore. Shore just seems like his ceiling can’t elevate to 4th line duties these days. I would rather have a guy there who at least has the potential to be a decent 4th liner one day. Even better Holland should swap Shore out for a guy who can fight. Oiler fans want a 4th line that can hit and fight. Spec is right this team needs a banger line to get the team into the game early.
Last edited 1 year ago by teddyturnbuckle
Bag of Pucks
November 18, 2022 11:36 am
Hey LT, I’ve been able to tune into the radio program a lot more of late. I’m really enjoying it and have a suggestion that I think may improve the show even more. Take it fwiw. Your mileage may vary.
By my ear, Ewanyk seems highly unengaged on those days where Dave and yourself are leading the charge. The missed opportunity on these days is he’s your best NFL pundit imo. I know Dave and yourself can wax eloquent on Bradshaw’s Steelers and Favre’s Packers but young Ewanyk seems the one most plugged into the current rosters and league minutiae. Like me, he probably watches way too much football.
My suggestion is showcase him a little more on the NFL segments on those days when Dave and yourself are co-hosting. I may be reading too much into it but there’s a palpable tension that seems to exist in the group dynamic on those days. I think this suggestion might help to both alleviate that and improve the on air product. If I’m way off base on this, NP I’m not in the room and not privy to the relationships obvs.
I like the NFL idea re: Iwanyk. As for tension, I can assure you there is none. Dave and I have been in the industry 40 years and both get plenty of time to chatter. Most of the problem, for me, is Iwanyk is behind me and I can see Dave. So the verbal dance is more difficult. That may be what you’re hearing.
Like Neil Peart’s Spirit of the Radio lyrics, I love the medium but not the industry as a hole.
I started my career in radio and consider myself very fortunate to have transitioned onto the web as the dot com boom was starting. Best financial decision I ever made.
Radio is absolutely festooned with great people. But unfortunately they’re not treated particularly well by all ownership groups. Low wages and a lack of loyalty as people age isn’t the ideal combination.
It will be good news indeed if you’re able to leave the field on your own terms.
Global seems like a good group from that perspective with both Steinke and now Sobel having seemingly amicable retirements.
McDavid/Hyman has been a lot more successful 5 on 5 than Draisailtl/Hyman since Hyman arrived. Not sure why, but Draisaitl.Hyman have a 39% goal share in 424 minutes together. The expected goal share is better but still sub 50%. Both those values are 57% with McDavid/Hyman. Be interesting to see how Janmark fits in that spot for now.
That third line is fast and big and likely creates some chaos on the forecheck. Hopefully, they can also play well in their own end and through the neutral zone.
Good I like hyman with McDavid. More a loose puck hound than a nail perfect shot off sublime backhand pass.
jp
November 18, 2022 11:08 am
With all the talk about truculence recently, I thought to have a look at recent cup winners and where they were in the league in terms of hits and penalties.
So, last 10 Cup winners, and their league ranks in hits, PIM and major penalties:
Year Team H PIM Maj
2013 CHI 30 29 28 (of 30 teams)
2014 LAK 02 22 17
2015 CHI 29 29 29
2016 PIT 12 27 29
2017 PIT 08 23 29
2018 WSH 14 06 09 (of 31 teams now)
2019 STL 24 24 17
2020 TBY 07 04 06
2021 TBY 09 01 01
2022 COL 23 12 12 (of 32 teams now)
And purely for comparisons sake, the Oilers this season and last:
2021 EDM 05 18 12
2022 EDM 15 23 31
2023 EDM 09 17 27
And Holland’s Red Wings Cup winners:
1998 DET — 21 25 (of 26 teams)
2002 DET — 24 30 (of 30 teams)
2008 DET 25 30 30 (of 30 teams)
So in terms of recent cup winners, it’s a total mixed bag in terms of whether the teams hit a lot and take lots of penalties/majors.
TB has been by far the most ‘truculent’ Cup winner in the last decade. Chicago and Pittsburgh look like they didn’t fight at all (using majors as a proxy).
Recent Oilers (last 2 seasons) seem to fall in to the not fight at all category, as did Holland’s Cup winning teams.
The only conclusions I can see worth making here are:
1) There doesn’t seem to be a clear correlation of these things to winning (which I think others have previously shown in much more detail)
2) Holland does not value ‘truculence’ heavily (though the Oilers have been above average in terms of hit rates the last few seasons).
A lot of Oilers toughness was brought in by Chiarelli. Its the one thing he managed to do correctly.
Now the toughness has faded the fans can now sit back and enjoy other teams taking runs at the star players, with little pushback. Just like the LAK game.
The problem remains that the NHL is still a garage league in terms of officiating.
Somewhere along the way, the NHL devised the logical standard, “it doesn’t matter how potentially dangerous of an attempted play or knee-on-knee hit you make, if the other player doesn’t have an obvious injury as a consequence, you don’t get a suspension.”
it depends on the year, how the calls are made, and you you go through.
Colorado won last year without a rugged team, but man did they get the calls and Makar, their key player, nearly impossible to hit.
The year prior they were manhandled by a tough, physical Vegas team.
The Oilers were scrummed nearly to death by a Kings team that was allowed free rein to get away with murder after the whistle last year.
Even in the series against the Jets where Hellebuyck was the deciding factor, the lack of calls on obstruction (tackling 97) and size was a factor with Logan Stanley and Adam Lowry.
Yeah, I was mostly trying to have a bit of an updated look at how important this stuff is.
I’m not denying there’s any value to it, but I do think this look reinforces that it’s probably not an essential element of a winning team. I think everyone agrees though that having bigger, tougher, more physical players is better, so long as they can play hockey.
There’s also two fairly separable questions/elements here. 1) deterrent against injuries and 2) being big/strong/tenacious enough to handle a bigger team (whether on O or on D).
I feel like #1 has been pretty well debunked. Wasn’t Kassian on the ice when Giordano took him out a few years back? And Lucic was watching when Marc Savard’s career was ended? I can definitely recall tons of mentions over the years of ‘what are those guys (Lucic/Kassian) here for if they’re not deterring x or y against McDavid?’. That said, I also appreciate what Kane has done. Tkachuk and Kadri have definitely been quieter (though LAK did their scrumming with both Kane and Kassian present).
I think the value of point 2 is more clear. IIRC it’s defmn who’s liked to say a team needs to be able to play different ways. I agree with that. The numbers I pulled don’t seem to capture what you’re describing particularly well though (20-21 VEG and WPG, and 21-22 LAK were all well below average in hits, PIM and majors).
Anyway, I at least partially agree with you. Ideally the Oilers add more of those elements, though how badly they need to do so is less clear.
There’s a very small subset of players that can’t be deterred like a Matt Cooke or Raffi Torres, by pretty much anything. I think those type of guys are a separate category, so I don’t completely agree that there’s much that’s generalizable when picking actions of a Matt Cooke. I don’t think a guy like Matt Cooke belonged in the league as long as he was allowed to play.
Even still, I’ll agree that having a face puncher is not going to stop an Alex Edler from making that knee-on-knee hit on McDavid. The Leafs had Wayne Simmonds.
There are players, often many, that are willing to cross the line, that probably won’t be deterred by much. I didn’t like Landeskog’s hit that erased Yamamoto from the playoffs. Even Mackinnon was taking runs, 3 in one shift, with obvious intent to injure Draisatl’s bad ankle.
Against the Knights, Ryan Reeves was running around terrorizing the Avalanche, when he return from suspension (iirc). Whether it was due to him or “team toughness,” the Avs played like choir boys in that series. It certainly seemed like he had an impact.
I’ll make the argument, with absolutely any substance or evidence, that I think there’s some value in having a Zack MacEwen your team. Having a sh1t disturber like him at least has the effect of being a bit of a distraction, sort of like a rodeo clown, albeit one that throws haymakers, to draw attention away from your stars.
Kassian had that effect at times when he was engaged.
I’ll make the argument, with absolutely any substance or evidence, that I think there’s some value in having a Zack MacEwen your team. Having a sh1t disturber like him at least has the effect of being a bit of a distraction, sort of like a rodeo clown, albeit one that throws haymakers, to draw attention away from your stars.
Kassian had that effect at times when he was engaged.
Yup, I agree with that. Though it’s obviously a balance in terms of how much (some of) those players give up. Niemalainen wouldn’t be playing NHL games if he weren’t blowing guys up at every opportunity.
Agree MacEwan (almost mentioned him in my last reply) does have some value, but is he worth a 3rd round pick to acquire? Kassian did have some value, but clearly not $3.2M value.
I’ll stick with this point as well – I think those Chicago, Pittsburgh (and Colorado) Cup winners show that you don’t need Zack MacEwan’s or Zack Kassian’s to win (worth noting as well that MacDermid played zero playoff games for Colorado last year).
Bruce McCurdy
November 18, 2022 10:39 am
LT I’d argue Brodziak was an established NHLer long before the trade. In 2 full years here he’d played 159 games, 25-33-58, -2 in a defensive role on a shit team. He PK’d ,>2.5 minutes a night with heavy d zone starts. Big, cheap, versatile, right shot, let’s trade That guy!
I don’t think Tambellini brought in a single depth forward as good as Brodz in his entire time here, & got a combined 0 GP from the 2 picks acquired for him. (meanwhile Minny used the later pick they got back from Edmonton to select Darcy Kuemper!)
A huge unforced error & a(nother) defining moment of the decade of Darkness
I don’t think Tambellini brought in a single depth forward as good as
The pointless acquisition of Jered Smithson always stuck in my craw. It wasn’t of great significance, but always seemed like a perfect example of the DoD ineptitude.
That’s fair. I remember Brodziak passing Pouliot, and the organization landing on Pouliot despite evidence. So, he was established, but the Oilers didn’t view him as being best available. That’s my memory.
meanashell11
November 18, 2022 10:05 am
“My guess is that Bourgault lands around Yamamoto-Holloway levels.”
So you are saying he’s screwed!
jtblack
November 18, 2022 10:05 am
starting to worry about even making the playoffs now …. The Kane injury hurts our chances and if McD or Drai goes down for any significant amount of time, it will be curtains .
assuming those 2 stay healthy, I still think the playoffs is going to be a tough haul …Seatlle has real mojo, Vegas is for real and L.A. just walked in and beat us fairly easily.
in 60 combined games, the Bouchard, Yamamoto, Pulu, Holloway crew have a combined 1 GOAL.
I would not describe LA’s win as “easy” in any way, shape or form.
They played as if they had just had the riot act read to them, & I daresay they had after a 6-5 loss in Calgary. The whole team laid it out there for 60 minutes.
Agreed. No one cheated and some of their young players have really developed in a positive way. Vilardi is a guy who stood out for me, and i was looking for Kaliyev.
The playoffs were never a lock and are currently not a lock but I am not anywhere near real worry. Its not longer “early” but its also less than a quarter of the way in to the season.
You cite numerous Oilers that haven’t contributed and we also add a starting goalie that has been awful – this will all regress up. Campbell has these poor streaks but he also has real hot streaks – it will come as history shows us.
As down as we are on the Oilers’ play, and with so many underperforming players, they remain IN the playoffs and having played 13 of 16 games against teams that made the playoffs last season. I haven’t seen many (any) Arizona, SJS, ANA, etc., etc.
This team should be just fine for a playoff position – no lock but no need to worry yet (for me).
I would call that anything but an easy game for LA – in fact, quite the opposite. It was a very physical game and the Oilers got lots of licks in. Also, the Stars would diving all over blocking shots like the 98 Stars – they were likely battered and bruised and in rough shape after. That’s not a style that is played in the current NHL and not sustainable.
I also posted something before the season started that the CUP Winner has come out of the Top 7 in Reg Season standings over 85% of the time in last 15 years …. So the whole just get in and you can win it, is misleading …
you can get in and win a few rounds, but rarely do you get in and Win The Cup … My point being, it was important for Edmonton to be a true TOP CONTENDER and finish Top 7 overall … and it looks likes that ship may have sailed already …
There appears to be a theory that any team can win the cup. Just make the dance.
Yet how many times has a lower ranked team won the cup? Twice??
This reminds me of my working on construction days when my boss was arguing until blue in the face that all women need to do is accuse someone of a sex crime and he’s as good as convicted.
John Chambers
November 18, 2022 9:48 am
Speaking of AHL performances:
Last night the Kraken defeated the Rangers, the overtime goal a Justin Schulz rip assisted by Jordan Leslie Eberle.
It was 10 years ago that the duo tore up the A with the OKC Barons. It never turns out how you expect, does it.
I like #4 – The old “identity line” phrase is a bit worn out, but concept still works. Give them a task and turn them loose on it. Similar to PK,
#2 though – Sure we need Broberg to just make the NHL, and Bouch to pop, but we need those vets absolutely, they aren’t dropping in the line up anytime soon, it is just as important that they play good steady hocky.
Tarkus
November 18, 2022 9:31 am
Prospectaiden!
A septet of prospects will be running free on NA ice this night, led by Shane Lachance who has been aces high lately with back-to-back 2-goal games last weekend.
Meanwhile, Matvey Petrov’s point streak is nowhere near the number of the beast, but it is still an impressive 14 and counting–he gets the chance to extend it further this evening.
And Skyler Brind’Amour, the hockey son of a hockey son, leads his #5 Quinnipiac Bobcats into battle like a trooper.
1) On Benson, there is room for him on the 23 man roster while also keeping Holloway. The Oilers have been running a 22 player roster since the Kane injury with plenty of (temporary) cap space. They may send Holloway down when Benson is ready but don’t need to. Depends on if the want to get him down and the Benson activation makes sense as it gives another legit forward option.
2) I could see Benson finding a daily role on this team presuming he keeps developing that tenacious “piss off the other team” style along with his skill. With some legit skill like Janmark in the bottom 6/4th line, there is an increased ability for a “skilled grinder” like Benson to perhaps put up some more numbers while developing in that role.
3) On the list, I would say that Yamamoto and Holloway (right beside each other) are lower than their impact as their true impact in the AHL at 20 is under-represented by their box-cars.
4) Bourgault has come off his offensive heater but it should be noted that he is one of the top offensive creators nightly and, also, remains high on the PK rotation and has solid 2-wa ability in his game.
5) Savoie is already seeing some PP2 time and he’s shown great skill in that role
6) Tulio could make the NHL in a role that Benson is trying to make it in – piss off the other team – Tulio could be that guy but “quicker”.
On Benson, there is room for him on the 23 man roster while also keeping Holloway. The Oilers have been running a 22 player roster since the Kane injury with plenty of (temporary) cap space. They may send Holloway down when Benson is ready but don’t need to. Depends on if the want to get him down and the Benson activation makes sense as it gives another legit forward option.
I’d guess Holloway goes down for more ice time once Benson is ready to return. Obviously Holloway can keep himself an Oiler though if he can have more of an impact over the next couple of weeks.
Looks like conditioning stints are 14 days long (I had in my head 3 games, but that seems totally wrong). That would get Benson up to 6 games with Bakersfield through Nov. 30th.
It’ll be interesting to see if he can saw off on the 4th line when (if) he returns. He did have quite a nice camp from the sounds of it.
Ah, there are ‘conditioning loans’, and ‘LTIR conditioning loans’ (which is the 3 game/6 day one). Normal conditioning loans are 14 days.
Do you know Benson’s was LTIR type? They could have transferred him to regular IR before the conditioning loan I assume, to allow him some more time in Bakersfield. And there’s no reason to keep him on LTIR cap-wise.
A regular “conditioning loan” per Section 13.8, that can be 14 days, is for a player on the active roster and the player counts on the active roster even when loaned.
For Section 13.9, the LTIR conditioning loan, which is max 3 games/6 days (unless extended by two games), the player remains on LTIR and does not count against the 23 man roster limit.
Oilers could’t use 13.8 and still call Malone up (unless they sent Holloway, or another) down.
Too bad Benson got hurt this year he had a great camp. There is definitely an opportunity for Benson to come up when he is ready and make an impact on the Oilers. With so many Oilers not even having a pulse this year his rat like style might be just what they need. The guy finishes every check is constantly trying to draw penalties. I just have a feeling about him this year even though he is coming off an injury.
I still say this team needs players who operate with an edge, a very sharp edge. In a previous post somebody said we need more asshole-ish players, I agree.
The conversation that Malone had with Bourgault on the bench a few weeks back (story told by Chaulk) is a prime example of why I think this is not the right path forward.
Malone’s value to this org is as the captain of the Condors.
I would much rather have Benson in the NHL lineup.
I just think Malone would be more useful than Benson with the big club . He’s more physical , plays center & wing and works on the PK .
W
November 18, 2022 9:22 am
re Savoie VS Tullio
No more “dogged on the forecheck” types unless they are of the Hyman variety that can actually put the puck in the net once in a while.
We’ll see if Tullio can bring the offense to pro with him, but he scored 42 goals in the OHL last season. The kid definitely has skill in addition to ‘dogged forecheck’.
Man, that was two days of pure Oilers sh*t talking on the old Al Gore.
We have a lot of good players, led by the most talented players in the NHL. We have lots of talent emerging. Some talent we can see what they will be in the NHL while others are still on their trajectory. Quick note on Holloway, don’t worry about this kid, hes just treading water right now, but hes got the right motor, drive, and skill that is going provide significant help. Send him down or send him up the line up. Draisaitl will know how to take advantage of his speed.
My point being, everybody seems to attack this player or that player or we need a new player. Other teams get to have good players as well. As built, and leveraged to the cap, Oilers have enough resources to win hockey games. No doubt.
The Kings game was a textbook Oilers killer. Oilers don’t know how to handle that game when they can’t out-score, out offence the opposition. The key here is Oilers need better execution, better in game adaptability. As they say doing the same things with the same results…..
You can’t just say “don’t give up first goal” “don’t get outshot” “come out ready” Coaching is guiding the “what exactly do you want me to do different to change those outcomes?” To my eye, it seems the mistakes and breakdowns are repetitive. Both in systems and individuals.
I like Woodcrofts coaching, but what is going on here?
I think you bring up some very good points, especially with regards to the mistakes in systems and individuals. But it’s been 3 coaches now experiencing the same issues. 3 coaches who we’ve all criticized for employing this tactic or that.
I really think this is on the players at this point.
If a player can’t deliver, its one response. Such as Foegele’s try level is exceptional, but he may never have the skill to deliver top six offense. And thats okay, manage accordingly.
If a player simply won’t deliver, well that looks like a Malone call up and a change is made.
In regards to the Kings game, its not about the players simply “try harder” or “be better”. The Kings turtled up in a defensive shell blocking everything and allowing nothing inside. Oilers threw everything they had, in the same way, and it wasn’t enough. In this example, I don’t see how I can conclude that an individual player should have “done more” without identifying exactly what it is that he should have done.
Regardless, I accept the fact that the solution likely lies within the players control.
I actually don’t like Manwood’s coaching this year and the proof is on the ice. I’ve not seen much adaptability, the special teams aren’t where they should be and the team repeatedly comes out flat. The old ‘long stretch pass’ system is being countered easily, giving odd-man rushes against. The Oil’s D is sub-par but even the fundamentals (boxing out, support partner, gap control) seem off.
Trotz’ discipline and team-D first philosophy is the antidote but I think the runway will run out before he can salvage the season (a la Boudreau).
Fair point OP, but the PK performance almost nullifies that – that’s an aspect of the game that is eminently coachable, via drills and deployment.
OriginalPouzar
November 18, 2022 8:52 am
Thank you LT for allowing me to post this here.
I post this not for the content analysis of the game (in fact, I think I did a terrible job with the substance) but for the tribute to my father which is where my Oilers’ fandom came from. Dad read the comments section on this blog daily and was proud that various of his friends and acquaintances knew who “Original Pouzar” was from this blog. There is a small tribute to dad at the beginning and another at the end as I did “my number”. The Oilers lost a long-time fan and an amazing person earlier this week:
Haven’t had time to check in here much this season, but glad I thought of popping in today. Sorry to hear about your Dad, sounds like you guys were very close. It’s also very clear that he’s proud of you. If I’m still that close with my two boys when my time is up, I’ll have lived a happy life no matter what else happens to me.
Coop, so saddened and sorry to learn of Jerry’s passing. Your Father was a genuine mensch and a true gentleman. Sincerest condolences to you and your entire family, may your Father’s memory always be a blessing.
Coop, so saddened and sorry to learn of Jerry’s passing. Your Father was a genuine mensch and a true gentleman. Sincerest condolences to you and your entire family, may your Father’s memory always be a blessing.
I’m not sure who this is in “real life” but thank you so much for your words – he truly was – a true mensch and the most given and selfless man.
Looks like the baby oilers deploy the same penalty kill tactic….
Was also meditating on the pathos in the Oilers and the only thing I can imagine is Holland gets off of his old arse and brings in a top defenceman veteran immediately to fill the gap left when constantly maligned by most everyone Duncan Keith left.
Keith gave the Oilers defence a shot in hell of winning. This new defence is just terrible. As in Abandon all Hope terrible.
Poor Campbell. Expected to play like Grant Fuhr without Coffey, Lowe, McSorely, Huddy, Smith, and Gregg.
Decided to take a couple of Budvars(Czech lager), while thinking about how happy I might be for Boston this season, I hope they come out of the East and unless Oilers spring a miracle and make the finals(I kid) I hope Taylor Hall wins his first NHL professional championship.
Summarizing!
Wanner led the charge tonight with 1+1 in a MJ win. That’s 9 points in his last 6 games.
Brind’Amour and Lachance also tallied for their squads.
Petrov, despite 4 SOG, did not find the scoresheet and his point streak ends at 14 games.
Määttä was also held pointless but had a strong night on the dot, going 14-for-20 (70.0%!).
Münzenberger did return to the lineup tonight, even though he too was pointless on the night, as was Chiasson.
Where’s a chandler Stephenson, Marchment, kubalik when you need one lol.
Anyone have any players on radar that might be 25+ before breakout
Savoie takes a pass on the defensive wall, bobbles its a bit, leads to him getting whalopped and a turnover and the Wranglers score.
Chaulk has been known to bench young guys for that (it was bad).
Looking forward to seeing how Rodrigue does as the new #1 (although Pickard won’t be out as long as first feared given how bad it looked):
Savoie-McKegg-Griffith
Bailey-Philip-Bourgault
Benson-Hamblin-Lavoie
Kambeitz-Esposito-McPhee
Broberg-Demers
Kielb-Kesselring
Peters-Kemp
Rodrigue
The third line may end up the 1st line…… like the bump for Savoie.
How awesome is the Rodrigue story this year? Always a fan of players finding success, especially a goaler!
What’s going on with the New Jersey Dellows?
14-3-0???
Maybe the players were galvanized by the crowd, and are playing for Lindy?
Lachance gives Youngstown the lead with his 5th goal in the last three games, 9th overall on the season.
After picking up a helper earlier in the game, Wanner gives his Warriors the lead as his point shot is stopped, but he swoops in to pick up the rebound and backhands one upstairs:
https://mobile.twitter.com/MJWARRIORS/status/1593779327145218048?cxt=HHwWgMDQzdL2np4sAAAA
Weekend here. A dram of Glen Moray poured and feet up. Time for a retro record recommendation!
Try Pete Townshend’s White City for this solo Who’sters usually tasty stew of brainy lyrics, impeccable musicianship, stellar production, and ear worm melodies.
It’ll climb in your brain like Dan Rather listening to What’s The Frequency Kenneth?
https://open.spotify.com/album/0hBargVjE5PfagjeyESGmI?si=itU8uWLWSdSYejQqSFkFhA&utm_source=copy-link
Empty Glass is my favourite solo Pete.
That’s a gooder as well.
I used to drink Isle of Jura way back when they still used a pirate 18th century bottle and the whisky tasted like peat. One time returning from 5 hours in Emergency at the hospital (tetanus shot for a knife wound) Isle of Jura gave me one of the finest drinking moments in my entire life – as I knocked back several upon returning home around 4-5 AM.
Without my staple whisky, I have been forced to alternate between more expansive and better quality than I really deserve models; and also Glen Moray which has become my lowest price and still drinkable cheap but quality choice.
Terrified of your mentioning this brand of whisky and barely remembering the brand name, I went to the cupboard and there it was a unopened bottle of Glen Moray.
Nice.
Brind’Amour zips one from the left circle to open the scoring for Quinnipiac:
https://mobile.twitter.com/QU_MIH/status/1593762118414712832?cxt=HHwWgICqyfuMl54sAAAA
nobody predicted this …
3 western teams starting goalies SV%.
CAMPBELL – .873%
DEMKO – .874%
MARKSTROM – .887%
Jake Oettinger.927
Logan Thompson .925
Alexander Georgiev .924
Not so long ago you were extolling the virtues of Markstrom and Demko, both products of the goalie factory in Vancouver.
Year? I meant week.
LT’s Google Ads embed currently showing me ads featuring a buxom & beguiling redhead.
Oh ad targeting, you know me too well.
Whatever happened to Angie Everhart btw?
Ha!
Husband can go for 5 hrs, what does that mean, he has bowel problems?
That’s certainly what I was thinking. Poor fellow.
matheson-woodcroft-advises-patience-with-holloways-progress
Oilers recall Brad Malone – lame.
Provides some concern over length of time for Yamo – I’m somewhat convinced its his noggin.
The corollary is that Malone’s departure opens more ice time for the kids on the farm.
In theory – of course, Tulio scratched to night and Baily makes his season debut.
Intriguing lines. Not opposed, curious to see how this works. Speed across four lines.
Janmark with one wild one week, AHL winger to McD’s flank, nice. He should be motivated.
My ask for Kostin is to teach his linemates to drive to the net. And to shoot more. And be more aggressive. Too much deference right now, need someone to start driving the bus. Holloway could jump up if he plays well.
A fascinating discussion this afternoon on Dimitri Filopovic’s PDO Cast (highly recommended for intelligent hockey discussion) about potential trade destinations for Erik Karlsson.
Obviously any team considering it would be all in to win now.
If SJS we’re to retain half would be just shy of $6 million for another 4 seasons.
He would be a perfect RH partner for Darnell Nurse…what would the Oilers need to send the other way?
Haha oh man that’s fun to think about. I’d say probably Nurse himself actually, either that or pretty much everyone else.
I would think Bouchard, the two $3 million twins and a couple of 1st round picks should get it done.
Not only would that make the cap work easily but SJS is very eager to drop cap.
It would give the Sharks a lot of cap flexibility and can you imagine Karlsson and McDavid moving up the ice together?
this is interesting … I am not sure how EK’s 5×5 numbers are????
but he is elite offensively WHEN HEALTHY …
how about
BARRIE
YAMO
PULU
2023 – 1ST
2025 – 1ST
Karlsson leads the league in EVP with 22.
Can you imagine what that might look like if he played on a better team?
For reference, McDavid has 16 EVP.
yes, I am always interested in anything that can potentially make the team better …
I doubt they would have any interest in Barrie…they will want futures.
His on ice numbers are exceptional, especially relative to team.
https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20222023&thruseason=20222023&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=oi&rate=r&v=p&playerid=8474578
I always though putting Burns and Karlsson on the same team was a stupid decision
And if you get Karlsson you have to move Barrie while you can so would need a 3rd team involved
Of note, Justin Bailey is now healthy and playing for the Condors tonight and he’s likely a non-zero option for the Oilers going forward as a big body with NHL experience (82 games).
He’s on an AHL deal now but that was required for cap purposes as an NHL deal would have hit the cap and caused issues with him being out to start. Not sure if they were going to sign him to an NHL deal if he wasn’t hurt for term to start but, depending on his play for the Condors, he could be in the conversation.
The Condors get two players who haven’t played this season who are both potential NHL options in the short term.
So Holland could have traded one or both of either Yamamoto and Puljujarvi for actual players or picks. Instead he’s going to manage these assets by watching them play their way down the depth chart and eventually off the roster.
How is this maximizing the value of your assets?
There are posters on this board that suggested JP was not a legit top 6er two years ago. Some of the same posters suggested Yamamoto was not a legit top 6er especially for a long playoff grind at the time he was drafted!
How can our crystal ball be better than the GM’s? There’s patience with prospects and then there’s failure to project your talent properly. This is the latter and it could conceivably cost the Oilers dearly.
Wait. Wouldn’t other GMs need to also be unaware that these players are not legit top 6 players in order to extract anything of value from them?
Your crystal ball would need to be better than that of multiple GMs in order for this to be a reasonably plausible criticism.
They were tradeable assets as recently as last season.
While I agree with the idea of trading players before their value plummets, I don’t think there was much of a market for either of these players.
Rumors were swirling of a 3rd round pick being a potential return for JP this summer.
Yamamoto was injured by Landeskog in the playoffs and an RFA coming off a 20 goal season inflated by playing with 29.
I would add that Holland’s crystal ball on his own players should absolutely be better than any GM in the league given that he watches every game they play and they do not. That is a core expectation of the job. Holding onto players that are trending down the depth chart is akin to holding a position in a tanking stock with no credible promise of recovery. This is not asset management best practices. It’s wishful thinking.
Important to note that neither player had a cap hit north of $3million before this season.
Jesse was at $1.45 million while Yamamoto was at $1.75 million.
It is far more difficult to trade an underperforming player when cap dollars are hard to come by.
One would assume the Wild tried to trade Tyson Jost at a $2 million cap hit but had no takers so we’re forced to put him on waivers.
MISINFORMATION ALERT:
Jesse signed a $1.175 MM contract in 2020/21 for two years after returning from Finland, and Kailer followed suit with an identical one year contract the following season. Both pacts expired this past offseason where they renegotiated for $3 MM and $3.1 MM respectively.
Source:
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/jesse-puljujarvi
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/kailer-yamamoto
What’s more important is that the “information” provided about past contracts for Yamamoto/Puljujarvi had NOTHING to do with the conversation relating to their value diminishing since this summer (AFTER those contracts expired), etc. – it was simply an excuse to point out their current higher cap hits.
I think this view is a little bit wobbly.
Was there not reasonably evidence to suggest both had value? I think our JP pulled numbers the other day to confirm Yamo is no more injured than any other player on the roster. (15-20 goals, speed, turnovers)
And both provided enough help to legitimately beat out competition for those top 6 spots.
As the team evolves, both Yamo and Jessie no longer have to beat out Shore, Nygaard, Kassian, or Benson, but they have to compete against a higher level of internal competition.
Question is if there is any evidence today, and it is reasonable to suggest Holland could have or should have gone a different route this summer.
My opinion, Yamo has ability to contribute in top 9. His size is not beneficial, but his quickness is. And his ability to do what he can physically while at a disadvantage can be motivating. But this year, he simply is not. Injured yes. But even before injury he didn’t have his usual zip. Not much evidence so far. I think this may be a time or a year where he is faded and Holloway steps in.
I’m still mad they didn’t dump shultz and yakupov on Philly at start of season after shortened season (couturier was available and Philly was death spiraling. There was also literally a fit between the two clubs actual perceived needs as well) but:
I have no problem with a GM exploring market and accepting that even though he’d probably like to the market to trade wingers this off-season was probably the worst it’s ever been.
I do wish he would have paid maybe a 2nd to send away a body and have at least 22/23 man roster as I truly thought the teams running skinny 21’s would probably wish by deadline they would’ve paid for flexibility…but he would have had to pay dearly to offload any of the 3 – 3 million dollar men.
It wasn’t a “sell high” opportunity
It wasn’t a “sell reasonable” opportunity
It was a get screwed or forget it.
Not a lot of blame I can place at Holland feet.
seems a bit revisionist.
JP’s last 2 seasons extrapolated:
20-21. 82 GMS 22 G 15 A 37 PTS
21-22. 82 GMS 18 G 28 A 46 PTS
YAM FRY extrapolated:
20-21. 82 GMS 12 G 20 A 32 PTS
21-22. 82 GMS 20 G 21 A 41 PTS
Both players are 24 years old.
So you have 2 – 24 YEAR OLD Right Wingers who should be entering the prime seasons. Both have shown improvement year over year coming into this season. Both project out based on last season, to be 20 Goal 40 Point players.
Those are the type of players you want to move on from? Remember Tyson Jost career numbers are very similar to JP’s. Jost was traded last season for Nico Sturm.
So although you could be right, that the 2 young wingers should have been traded, would you be Happy if we got back 2 Nico Sturms?
It’s Holland job to maximize his assets. Both Yamo and JP have completely cratered value now. A number of us saw this coming a mile away while he sat on his hands hoping 6&7s would magically turn into face cards.
it’s also fantasy thinking to believe that Holland could have traded JP or Yamo for anything more than 6’s or 7’s …..
Yup. That’s the job. He has to accurately forecast the 6&7s most likely to trend upward and discard the ones most likely to trend downward. He can also trade them for picks and start the trendline anew. Nobody said picking winners was easy.
You have to know when to fold them and many on this site could recognize that when Holland could not.
I agree they were tradable, and think they still are. But you said not trading them ‘could conceivably cost the Oilers dearly’, which implies a substantial return was possible.
It’s tempting to also extend this to hockey fans and blog posters. It remains possible that Holland has not, in fact, failed to properly project these players.
I guess that’s my other main issue (aside from you expecting Holland to be able to get value from assets which you believe to be junk) with your post. I don’t agree their value has completely cratered.
HH kiss of death victim Jost is on waivers by Min
My boy…look how they Raffertized my boy
Even with all the injuries right now I think its time to send Holloway down along with Devin Shore. Shore just seems like his ceiling can’t elevate to 4th line duties these days. I would rather have a guy there who at least has the potential to be a decent 4th liner one day. Even better Holland should swap Shore out for a guy who can fight. Oiler fans want a 4th line that can hit and fight. Spec is right this team needs a banger line to get the team into the game early.
Hey LT, I’ve been able to tune into the radio program a lot more of late. I’m really enjoying it and have a suggestion that I think may improve the show even more. Take it fwiw. Your mileage may vary.
By my ear, Ewanyk seems highly unengaged on those days where Dave and yourself are leading the charge. The missed opportunity on these days is he’s your best NFL pundit imo. I know Dave and yourself can wax eloquent on Bradshaw’s Steelers and Favre’s Packers but young Ewanyk seems the one most plugged into the current rosters and league minutiae. Like me, he probably watches way too much football.
My suggestion is showcase him a little more on the NFL segments on those days when Dave and yourself are co-hosting. I may be reading too much into it but there’s a palpable tension that seems to exist in the group dynamic on those days. I think this suggestion might help to both alleviate that and improve the on air product. If I’m way off base on this, NP I’m not in the room and not privy to the relationships obvs.
I like the NFL idea re: Iwanyk. As for tension, I can assure you there is none. Dave and I have been in the industry 40 years and both get plenty of time to chatter. Most of the problem, for me, is Iwanyk is behind me and I can see Dave. So the verbal dance is more difficult. That may be what you’re hearing.
Thanks for considering the suggestion and glad to hear all involved are happy campers 😊
Thanks for the interesting conversations and Go Team Canada!
I love that you listen. Radio is a passion of mine and I know someday it will waive me, but I’m thrilled to be doing it as long as possible.
Awesome to be doing something you love.
Like Neil Peart’s Spirit of the Radio lyrics, I love the medium but not the industry as a hole.
I started my career in radio and consider myself very fortunate to have transitioned onto the web as the dot com boom was starting. Best financial decision I ever made.
Radio is absolutely festooned with great people. But unfortunately they’re not treated particularly well by all ownership groups. Low wages and a lack of loyalty as people age isn’t the ideal combination.
It will be good news indeed if you’re able to leave the field on your own terms.
Global seems like a good group from that perspective with both Steinke and now Sobel having seemingly amicable retirements.
Per Stauffer:
Oilers today:
Janmark-McDavid-Hyman
RNH-Draisaitl-Foegele
Kostin-McLeod-Puljujarvi
Holloway-Shore-Ryan
Nurse-Ceci
Kulak-Bouchard
Murray-Barrie
Niemelainen
Skinner
Campbell
Wow.
Seems fair on merit, but also has a bit of a blender look.
didn’t take long for a Puljujarvi demotion … need to score if you are going to flank McD or Dr. Drai ….
I like the look of that 3rd line …
McDavid/Hyman has been a lot more successful 5 on 5 than Draisailtl/Hyman since Hyman arrived. Not sure why, but Draisaitl.Hyman have a 39% goal share in 424 minutes together. The expected goal share is better but still sub 50%. Both those values are 57% with McDavid/Hyman. Be interesting to see how Janmark fits in that spot for now.
That third line is fast and big and likely creates some chaos on the forecheck. Hopefully, they can also play well in their own end and through the neutral zone.
I would see if I can’t turn Kostin into Maroon and put him with Mcdavid
Good I like hyman with McDavid. More a loose puck hound than a nail perfect shot off sublime backhand pass.
With all the talk about truculence recently, I thought to have a look at recent cup winners and where they were in the league in terms of hits and penalties.
So, last 10 Cup winners, and their league ranks in hits, PIM and major penalties:
Year Team H PIM Maj
2013 CHI 30 29 28 (of 30 teams)
2014 LAK 02 22 17
2015 CHI 29 29 29
2016 PIT 12 27 29
2017 PIT 08 23 29
2018 WSH 14 06 09 (of 31 teams now)
2019 STL 24 24 17
2020 TBY 07 04 06
2021 TBY 09 01 01
2022 COL 23 12 12 (of 32 teams now)
And purely for comparisons sake, the Oilers this season and last:
2021 EDM 05 18 12
2022 EDM 15 23 31
2023 EDM 09 17 27
And Holland’s Red Wings Cup winners:
1998 DET — 21 25 (of 26 teams)
2002 DET — 24 30 (of 30 teams)
2008 DET 25 30 30 (of 30 teams)
So in terms of recent cup winners, it’s a total mixed bag in terms of whether the teams hit a lot and take lots of penalties/majors.
TB has been by far the most ‘truculent’ Cup winner in the last decade. Chicago and Pittsburgh look like they didn’t fight at all (using majors as a proxy).
Recent Oilers (last 2 seasons) seem to fall in to the not fight at all category, as did Holland’s Cup winning teams.
The only conclusions I can see worth making here are:
1) There doesn’t seem to be a clear correlation of these things to winning (which I think others have previously shown in much more detail)
2) Holland does not value ‘truculence’ heavily (though the Oilers have been above average in terms of hit rates the last few seasons).
A lot of Oilers toughness was brought in by Chiarelli. Its the one thing he managed to do correctly.
Now the toughness has faded the fans can now sit back and enjoy other teams taking runs at the star players, with little pushback. Just like the LAK game.
Do you really believe teams are taking more runs at Connor and Leon now then they were before Chiarelli was fired?
I’m not usually the guy screaming, “moar bigger.”
The problem remains that the NHL is still a garage league in terms of officiating.
Somewhere along the way, the NHL devised the logical standard, “it doesn’t matter how potentially dangerous of an attempted play or knee-on-knee hit you make, if the other player doesn’t have an obvious injury as a consequence, you don’t get a suspension.”
it depends on the year, how the calls are made, and you you go through.
Colorado won last year without a rugged team, but man did they get the calls and Makar, their key player, nearly impossible to hit.
The year prior they were manhandled by a tough, physical Vegas team.
The Oilers were scrummed nearly to death by a Kings team that was allowed free rein to get away with murder after the whistle last year.
Even in the series against the Jets where Hellebuyck was the deciding factor, the lack of calls on obstruction (tackling 97) and size was a factor with Logan Stanley and Adam Lowry.
Yeah, I was mostly trying to have a bit of an updated look at how important this stuff is.
I’m not denying there’s any value to it, but I do think this look reinforces that it’s probably not an essential element of a winning team. I think everyone agrees though that having bigger, tougher, more physical players is better, so long as they can play hockey.
There’s also two fairly separable questions/elements here. 1) deterrent against injuries and 2) being big/strong/tenacious enough to handle a bigger team (whether on O or on D).
I feel like #1 has been pretty well debunked. Wasn’t Kassian on the ice when Giordano took him out a few years back? And Lucic was watching when Marc Savard’s career was ended? I can definitely recall tons of mentions over the years of ‘what are those guys (Lucic/Kassian) here for if they’re not deterring x or y against McDavid?’. That said, I also appreciate what Kane has done. Tkachuk and Kadri have definitely been quieter (though LAK did their scrumming with both Kane and Kassian present).
I think the value of point 2 is more clear. IIRC it’s defmn who’s liked to say a team needs to be able to play different ways. I agree with that. The numbers I pulled don’t seem to capture what you’re describing particularly well though (20-21 VEG and WPG, and 21-22 LAK were all well below average in hits, PIM and majors).
Anyway, I at least partially agree with you. Ideally the Oilers add more of those elements, though how badly they need to do so is less clear.
There’s a very small subset of players that can’t be deterred like a Matt Cooke or Raffi Torres, by pretty much anything. I think those type of guys are a separate category, so I don’t completely agree that there’s much that’s generalizable when picking actions of a Matt Cooke. I don’t think a guy like Matt Cooke belonged in the league as long as he was allowed to play.
Even still, I’ll agree that having a face puncher is not going to stop an Alex Edler from making that knee-on-knee hit on McDavid. The Leafs had Wayne Simmonds.
There are players, often many, that are willing to cross the line, that probably won’t be deterred by much. I didn’t like Landeskog’s hit that erased Yamamoto from the playoffs. Even Mackinnon was taking runs, 3 in one shift, with obvious intent to injure Draisatl’s bad ankle.
Against the Knights, Ryan Reeves was running around terrorizing the Avalanche, when he return from suspension (iirc). Whether it was due to him or “team toughness,” the Avs played like choir boys in that series. It certainly seemed like he had an impact.
I’ll make the argument, with absolutely any substance or evidence, that I think there’s some value in having a Zack MacEwen your team. Having a sh1t disturber like him at least has the effect of being a bit of a distraction, sort of like a rodeo clown, albeit one that throws haymakers, to draw attention away from your stars.
Kassian had that effect at times when he was engaged.
Worth noting that Sakic went out and acquired Kurtis MacDermid and Josh Manson after that series with the VGK.
MacDermid is 6’5” 235 and can play either D or F.
No one wants to tangle with him.
I kind of forgot about MacDermid, but yeah he’s a big guy that fights a lot by today’s standards. Geeze he rag dolled Reeves in a fight last year.
Collectively, that’s a lot of beef for an analytics team to add.
A $987K cap hit is pretty cheap insurance.
I agree, EDM could add some toughness / size even if it’s not fighting toughness … but they have all pretty much lightweights with E Kane out …
Yes, funny that was omitted…..
Omitted from what?
Yup, I agree with that. Though it’s obviously a balance in terms of how much (some of) those players give up. Niemalainen wouldn’t be playing NHL games if he weren’t blowing guys up at every opportunity.
Agree MacEwan (almost mentioned him in my last reply) does have some value, but is he worth a 3rd round pick to acquire? Kassian did have some value, but clearly not $3.2M value.
I’ll stick with this point as well – I think those Chicago, Pittsburgh (and Colorado) Cup winners show that you don’t need Zack MacEwan’s or Zack Kassian’s to win (worth noting as well that MacDermid played zero playoff games for Colorado last year).
LT I’d argue Brodziak was an established NHLer long before the trade. In 2 full years here he’d played 159 games, 25-33-58, -2 in a defensive role on a shit team. He PK’d ,>2.5 minutes a night with heavy d zone starts. Big, cheap, versatile, right shot, let’s trade That guy!
I don’t think Tambellini brought in a single depth forward as good as Brodz in his entire time here, & got a combined 0 GP from the 2 picks acquired for him. (meanwhile Minny used the later pick they got back from Edmonton to select Darcy Kuemper!)
A huge unforced error & a(nother) defining moment of the decade of Darkness
still annoyed.
Even after all this time, just hearing the two words, “Brodziak trade” still makes me feel annoyed, lol.
it was a glaringly stupid trade at the time.
The pointless acquisition of Jered Smithson always stuck in my craw. It wasn’t of great significance, but always seemed like a perfect example of the DoD ineptitude.
That’s fair. I remember Brodziak passing Pouliot, and the organization landing on Pouliot despite evidence. So, he was established, but the Oilers didn’t view him as being best available. That’s my memory.
“My guess is that Bourgault lands around Yamamoto-Holloway levels.”
So you are saying he’s screwed!
starting to worry about even making the playoffs now …. The Kane injury hurts our chances and if McD or Drai goes down for any significant amount of time, it will be curtains .
assuming those 2 stay healthy, I still think the playoffs is going to be a tough haul …Seatlle has real mojo, Vegas is for real and L.A. just walked in and beat us fairly easily.
in 60 combined games, the Bouchard, Yamamoto, Pulu, Holloway crew have a combined 1 GOAL.
The next 5 games see Edmonton face:
VGS – #3 in standings
NJ – #2
NYI – #7
NYR – #13
FLA – #15
LET’S GO OILERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would not describe LA’s win as “easy” in any way, shape or form.
They played as if they had just had the riot act read to them, & I daresay they had after a 6-5 loss in Calgary. The whole team laid it out there for 60 minutes.
Agreed. No one cheated and some of their young players have really developed in a positive way. Vilardi is a guy who stood out for me, and i was looking for Kaliyev.
I’m starting to become a Seattle fan.
Good.
Run along now.
The playoffs were never a lock and are currently not a lock but I am not anywhere near real worry. Its not longer “early” but its also less than a quarter of the way in to the season.
You cite numerous Oilers that haven’t contributed and we also add a starting goalie that has been awful – this will all regress up. Campbell has these poor streaks but he also has real hot streaks – it will come as history shows us.
As down as we are on the Oilers’ play, and with so many underperforming players, they remain IN the playoffs and having played 13 of 16 games against teams that made the playoffs last season. I haven’t seen many (any) Arizona, SJS, ANA, etc., etc.
This team should be just fine for a playoff position – no lock but no need to worry yet (for me).
I would call that anything but an easy game for LA – in fact, quite the opposite. It was a very physical game and the Oilers got lots of licks in. Also, the Stars would diving all over blocking shots like the 98 Stars – they were likely battered and bruised and in rough shape after. That’s not a style that is played in the current NHL and not sustainable.
That was far from an easy win, in my opinion.
I also posted something before the season started that the CUP Winner has come out of the Top 7 in Reg Season standings over 85% of the time in last 15 years …. So the whole just get in and you can win it, is misleading …
you can get in and win a few rounds, but rarely do you get in and Win The Cup … My point being, it was important for Edmonton to be a true TOP CONTENDER and finish Top 7 overall … and it looks likes that ship may have sailed already …
There appears to be a theory that any team can win the cup. Just make the dance.
Yet how many times has a lower ranked team won the cup? Twice??
This reminds me of my working on construction days when my boss was arguing until blue in the face that all women need to do is accuse someone of a sex crime and he’s as good as convicted.
Speaking of AHL performances:
Last night the Kraken defeated the Rangers, the overtime goal a Justin Schulz rip assisted by Jordan Leslie Eberle.
It was 10 years ago that the duo tore up the A with the OKC Barons. It never turns out how you expect, does it.
That was a fun goal.
Two players basically run out of town and still going strong today……
And don’t forget Adam Larsson.
2-1-3 +10
Damn I did, watching Quinn Hughes struggle too much.
My bad.
11th in D scoring with 14 points.
Bouchard tied for 69th with 5 points.
you must be fun at parties…
Pin the tail on the donkey?
This is tiresome. move on, please.
Woody has some work to do to go deep in the play offs
1.The team swings around Connor and Leon’s scoring- at times I wonder if the objective is 2×100 point players or winning in the play offs.
2.Bouchard is the 1RHD and Broberg is the 2LHD. Ceci and Kulak are too high in the battling order.
3.When Woody loads up 97,29,18 he has three lines that probably will not score.
4.Bottom 6 is beige – build a bang and crash or a kid line, or roadrunner line …..
5.Campbell is a problem right now.
6.Puljajarvi, Yamamoto, McLeod, Holloway, Benson will score more 5v5 if they score more empty net or PP1 goals
Woody has some work to do just to get us into the playoffs.
Playoffs?
Don’t talk to us about playoffs!
Playoffs?
Gold
I like #4 – The old “identity line” phrase is a bit worn out, but concept still works. Give them a task and turn them loose on it. Similar to PK,
#2 though – Sure we need Broberg to just make the NHL, and Bouch to pop, but we need those vets absolutely, they aren’t dropping in the line up anytime soon, it is just as important that they play good steady hocky.
Prospectaiden!
A septet of prospects will be running free on NA ice this night, led by Shane Lachance who has been aces high lately with back-to-back 2-goal games last weekend.
Meanwhile, Matvey Petrov’s point streak is nowhere near the number of the beast, but it is still an impressive 14 and counting–he gets the chance to extend it further this evening.
And Skyler Brind’Amour, the hockey son of a hockey son, leads his #5 Quinnipiac Bobcats into battle like a trooper.
Vermont (Münzenberger, Määttä) @ 5 p.m.
Quinnipiac (Brind’Amour) @ 5 p.m.
North Bay (Petrov) @ 5:30 p.m.
Youngstown (Lachance) @ 6 p.m.
Moose Jaw (Wanner) @ 6 p.m.
Brandon (Chiasson) @ 7 p.m. (not 2 minutes to midnight)
All times, at all times, are Willingdon time.
Well done Tarkus, Eddie would be proud.
1) On Benson, there is room for him on the 23 man roster while also keeping Holloway. The Oilers have been running a 22 player roster since the Kane injury with plenty of (temporary) cap space. They may send Holloway down when Benson is ready but don’t need to. Depends on if the want to get him down and the Benson activation makes sense as it gives another legit forward option.
2) I could see Benson finding a daily role on this team presuming he keeps developing that tenacious “piss off the other team” style along with his skill. With some legit skill like Janmark in the bottom 6/4th line, there is an increased ability for a “skilled grinder” like Benson to perhaps put up some more numbers while developing in that role.
3) On the list, I would say that Yamamoto and Holloway (right beside each other) are lower than their impact as their true impact in the AHL at 20 is under-represented by their box-cars.
4) Bourgault has come off his offensive heater but it should be noted that he is one of the top offensive creators nightly and, also, remains high on the PK rotation and has solid 2-wa ability in his game.
5) Savoie is already seeing some PP2 time and he’s shown great skill in that role
6) Tulio could make the NHL in a role that Benson is trying to make it in – piss off the other team – Tulio could be that guy but “quicker”.
I’d guess Holloway goes down for more ice time once Benson is ready to return. Obviously Holloway can keep himself an Oiler though if he can have more of an impact over the next couple of weeks.
Looks like conditioning stints are 14 days long (I had in my head 3 games, but that seems totally wrong). That would get Benson up to 6 games with Bakersfield through Nov. 30th.
It’ll be interesting to see if he can saw off on the 4th line when (if) he returns. He did have quite a nice camp from the sounds of it.
Its Section 13.9 – max 6 days and 3 games (can be extended for 2 more games).
Ah, there are ‘conditioning loans’, and ‘LTIR conditioning loans’ (which is the 3 game/6 day one). Normal conditioning loans are 14 days.
Do you know Benson’s was LTIR type? They could have transferred him to regular IR before the conditioning loan I assume, to allow him some more time in Bakersfield. And there’s no reason to keep him on LTIR cap-wise.
I’m getting this from PPP though I guess you’re on top of this since you’re going directly to the CBA. (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2021/2/16/22284010/understanding-conditioning-stints-toronto-maple-leafs-roster-loopholes-that-arent)
A regular “conditioning loan” per Section 13.8, that can be 14 days, is for a player on the active roster and the player counts on the active roster even when loaned.
For Section 13.9, the LTIR conditioning loan, which is max 3 games/6 days (unless extended by two games), the player remains on LTIR and does not count against the 23 man roster limit.
Oilers could’t use 13.8 and still call Malone up (unless they sent Holloway, or another) down.
Thanks, makes sense.
Too bad Benson got hurt this year he had a great camp. There is definitely an opportunity for Benson to come up when he is ready and make an impact on the Oilers. With so many Oilers not even having a pulse this year his rat like style might be just what they need. The guy finishes every check is constantly trying to draw penalties. I just have a feeling about him this year even though he is coming off an injury.
I still say this team needs players who operate with an edge, a very sharp edge. In a previous post somebody said we need more asshole-ish players, I agree.
I’d rather Malone than Benson. Give Benson the C in Bakersfield and keep Malone up with the big club.
The conversation that Malone had with Bourgault on the bench a few weeks back (story told by Chaulk) is a prime example of why I think this is not the right path forward.
Malone’s value to this org is as the captain of the Condors.
I would much rather have Benson in the NHL lineup.
I just think Malone would be more useful than Benson with the big club . He’s more physical , plays center & wing and works on the PK .
re Savoie VS Tullio
No more “dogged on the forecheck” types unless they are of the Hyman variety that can actually put the puck in the net once in a while.
We’ll see if Tullio can bring the offense to pro with him, but he scored 42 goals in the OHL last season. The kid definitely has skill in addition to ‘dogged forecheck’.
2 two Tullio as our friend Tarkus would say.
Man, that was two days of pure Oilers sh*t talking on the old Al Gore.
We have a lot of good players, led by the most talented players in the NHL. We have lots of talent emerging. Some talent we can see what they will be in the NHL while others are still on their trajectory. Quick note on Holloway, don’t worry about this kid, hes just treading water right now, but hes got the right motor, drive, and skill that is going provide significant help. Send him down or send him up the line up. Draisaitl will know how to take advantage of his speed.
My point being, everybody seems to attack this player or that player or we need a new player. Other teams get to have good players as well. As built, and leveraged to the cap, Oilers have enough resources to win hockey games. No doubt.
The Kings game was a textbook Oilers killer. Oilers don’t know how to handle that game when they can’t out-score, out offence the opposition. The key here is Oilers need better execution, better in game adaptability. As they say doing the same things with the same results…..
You can’t just say “don’t give up first goal” “don’t get outshot” “come out ready” Coaching is guiding the “what exactly do you want me to do different to change those outcomes?” To my eye, it seems the mistakes and breakdowns are repetitive. Both in systems and individuals.
I like Woodcrofts coaching, but what is going on here?
I think you bring up some very good points, especially with regards to the mistakes in systems and individuals. But it’s been 3 coaches now experiencing the same issues. 3 coaches who we’ve all criticized for employing this tactic or that.
I really think this is on the players at this point.
If a player can’t deliver, its one response. Such as Foegele’s try level is exceptional, but he may never have the skill to deliver top six offense. And thats okay, manage accordingly.
If a player simply won’t deliver, well that looks like a Malone call up and a change is made.
In regards to the Kings game, its not about the players simply “try harder” or “be better”. The Kings turtled up in a defensive shell blocking everything and allowing nothing inside. Oilers threw everything they had, in the same way, and it wasn’t enough. In this example, I don’t see how I can conclude that an individual player should have “done more” without identifying exactly what it is that he should have done.
Regardless, I accept the fact that the solution likely lies within the players control.
I think it’s largely on players
For the group to succeed as a group the players have to execute basic plays and they don’t consistently
Good plays at blue lines in our out. Puck battles and being on the right side of the play
Puck management and reading the play especially in the O zone
The coaches have taught these things, you can’t make the NHL as a coach is you don’t value them
Holland has improved skill and ability each year. But the mix is still far from good with too many similar type guys struggling with the same issues
And they remain short a good top 4 D
I hope he sorts it out soon
I actually don’t like Manwood’s coaching this year and the proof is on the ice. I’ve not seen much adaptability, the special teams aren’t where they should be and the team repeatedly comes out flat. The old ‘long stretch pass’ system is being countered easily, giving odd-man rushes against. The Oil’s D is sub-par but even the fundamentals (boxing out, support partner, gap control) seem off.
Trotz’ discipline and team-D first philosophy is the antidote but I think the runway will run out before he can salvage the season (a la Boudreau).
I’m dreading a real schooling by VGK tomorrow.
31.7% on the PP isn’t good enough?
If that holds, which it likely won’t, it would be the 2nd best of all time (70s Has: 31.9%).
Fair point OP, but the PK performance almost nullifies that – that’s an aspect of the game that is eminently coachable, via drills and deployment.
Thank you LT for allowing me to post this here.
I post this not for the content analysis of the game (in fact, I think I did a terrible job with the substance) but for the tribute to my father which is where my Oilers’ fandom came from. Dad read the comments section on this blog daily and was proud that various of his friends and acquaintances knew who “Original Pouzar” was from this blog. There is a small tribute to dad at the beginning and another at the end as I did “my number”. The Oilers lost a long-time fan and an amazing person earlier this week:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6s_VZY5rZs
So sorry to hear OP, all the best to you and your family.
My condolences to you and yours. Wishing you peace and strength during this difficult time.
My condolences to you and your family OP
Thoughts are with you and your family OP…my condolences sir
Haven’t had time to check in here much this season, but glad I thought of popping in today. Sorry to hear about your Dad, sounds like you guys were very close. It’s also very clear that he’s proud of you. If I’m still that close with my two boys when my time is up, I’ll have lived a happy life no matter what else happens to me.
thank you for your measured and balanced analysis! All the best for you and yours at this time.
My condolences, OP. I lost my father unexpectedly last year so I know the heartache. Time helps but life is never the same. God bless.
Sorry for your loss OP.
My condolences OP. Sorry for your loss.
Condolences OP – losing a parent is the hardest thing. Best wishes to you and your family.
Sorry for your loss OP. We can always benefit from fathers who pass on their love of the Oilers onto their kids.
Sorry for your loss, OP. My condolences to you and yours.
My condolences to you and your family OP.
Coop, so saddened and sorry to learn of Jerry’s passing. Your Father was a genuine mensch and a true gentleman. Sincerest condolences to you and your entire family, may your Father’s memory always be a blessing.
I’m not sure who this is in “real life” but thank you so much for your words – he truly was – a true mensch and the most given and selfless man.
Very sorry OP
Nice tribute OP. Your dad would be honoured by that and your posts here.
Sorry for your loss but very glad you got to share this space with him.
That’s something special and you’re very lucky to have that.
Thank you all for your kind words – I truly appreciate it!
Thinking of you OP
Sincerely send condolences to you and your family. Very sorry to read about your loss.
I’ll save judgement for the new year. The AHL is a huge step from junior and learning to be a pro through the grind of 3 games in 3 nights is a curve.
Expect the offense for X and Savoie to bump. Tullio I think will take the Mcleod route.
In order to draft and develop, you must first draft quality, projectable players. This may be the biggest change from years past.