Tyler Tullio reminds me of several former Oilers prospects. He doesn’t see feature time, but scored more at even strength than the first-round pick. He took some time to find a role in the minors, the coaching staff didn’t find a fit for him until later in the year. As these splits show, he improved in the second half of the season and will arrive at training camp around No. 6 on the NHL depth chart. It isn’t impossible for him. It’s happened before. In Edmonton.
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: Ideal roster positions for young Oilers in 2023-24
- Lowetide: Making sense of Oilers’ free-agent haul after initial flurry
- Lowetide: The Edmonton Oilers still have work to do this summer
- DNB: The Oilers roster is improved but evolution must continue into next season
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers top 20 prospects, summer 2023
- DNB: Assessing Edmonton Oilers’ remaining roster needs ahead of NHL free agency
- Lowetide: Realistic draft options for an Edmonton Oilers team low on picks
- DNB: What I’m hearing about the Oilers 3.0
- Lowetide: Why Connor Brown is a fit for the Edmonton Oilers in free agency
- DNB: Connor McDavid’s top-5 moments from another awards-laden season
- Lowetide: Oilers’ Jayden Grubbe and his organizational importance
- Lowetide: 4 impact QMJHL centres for Oilers to target late in 2023 NHL Draft
- DNB: 10 questions with director of amateur scouting Tyler Wright
- Lowetide: Why Oilers’ Dylan Holloway is in prime position for a major role
- DNB: Five burning Edmonton Oilers questions ahead of the NHL Draft and free agency
- Lowetide: 5 quality Edmonton Oilers trade targets for low-budget offseason
- Lowetide: Ken Holland’s Oilers roster construction missing one final piece
- DNB: What I’m hearing about the Oilers 2.0: Evan Bouchard offer sheet? Klim Kostin to KHL?
- DNB: Oilers’ offseason options: Comparing conservative and aggressive approaches
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers targets early and late in NHL free agency.
TULLIO
Tyler Tullio reminds me of Kyle Brodziak and Fernando Pisani in their early days in the AHL. All three men were under the radar due to more famous forwards (Xavier Bourgault, Marc Pouliot, Mike Comrie) thought to be superior. All three men debuted with shy numbers offensively, and two of the three went on to highly productive careers. It’s a stretch to suggest Tyler Tullio is going to play anything close to 1,000 NHL games, but he’s smart, skilled and he’s established himself as a player of promise. Here are the even-strength numbers by Oilers rookie prospects in their AHL debuts.
- Raphael Lavoie 2020-21. 19 games, 4-4-8 (.42 pts-game)
- Kyle Brodziak 2004-05. 56 games, 5-17-22 (.39 pts-game)
- Rob Schremp 2006-07. 69 games, 8-17-25 (.36 pts-game)
- Tyler Tullio 2022-23. 63 games, 10-11-21 (.33 pts-game)
- Xavier Bourgault 2022-23. 62 games, 6-14-20 (.32 pts-game)
- Ryan McLeod 2019-20. 56 games, 5-13-18 (.32 pts-game)
- Marc Pouliot 2005-06. 65 games, 9-12-21 (.32 pts-game)
- J-F Jacques 2005-06. 65 games, 11-10-21 (.32 pts-game)
- Dylan Holloway 2021-22. 33 games, 5-5-10 (.30 pts-game)
- Tyler Pitlick 2011-12. 62 games, 4-13-17 (.27 pts-game)
These are the men who were 20 years old in the AHL, had at least some NHL success or are currently matriculating to the NHL. Tullio belongs on this list. We can look at the draft order and pluck Bourgault and Dylan Holloway out of the group and say they’re going to be the NHLers, but it doesn’t always work that way. Brodziak v. Pouliot, Pisani v. Comrie are examples.
As an aside, I wanted to post the players who made the list but were excluded because of age, or they didn’t succeed. It’s Europeans, guys who suffered through ill-timed management and coaching changes, or both. Plus a couple of brilliant teenagers.
- Teemu Hartikainen 2010-11. 66 games, 10-22-32 (.48 pts-game)
- Jesse Puljujarvi 2016-17. 39 games, 7-11-18 (.46 pts-game)
- Kailer Yamamoto 2018-19. 27 games, 4-8-12 (.44 pts-game)
- Marc-Olivier Roy 2016-17. 42 games, 7-10-17 (.40 pts-game)
- Anton Slepyshev 2015-16. 49 games, 9-8-17 (.35 pts-game)
- Dave Gust 2017-18. 53 games, 9-7-16 (.30 pts-game)
Some real talented wasted on the way here, I well remember Craig MacTavish sending Teemu Hartikainen away after the GM spent less than a year on the job. Marco Roy didn’t even get a contract for crying out loud. There are good players here, some could have had real NHL careers, but the GM changed about every few years (five between 2007 and 2019), effectively rendering the talent pool something close to the Dead Sea.
A CONVERSATION
- Boy you like to champion the guys who’ll never make it. I championed Brodziak at HF boards in about 2004, wrote a long article comparing him to Pouliot and wondered openly if Brodziak was equal or better. He was, in fact, better. I was also on Pisani early.
- Sure. And this is happening with Tullio? It has all the foundational pieces, yes. Depth pick, arrives in the AHL to little power-play time but still scores more even-strength points than several highly-touted players.
- He isn’t one dimensional? Hell no, he posted 35-30 goals at even strength, that’s 55 percent goal share. As a flat-out rookie. Bourgault was 60 percent, but both men performed well.
- Who did Tullio play most with? The easiest way to cipher the answer is to go back and see who he was on the ice with for his goals and assists. They are: Seth Griffith (9), Luke Esposito (9), Raphael Lavoie (7), Noah Philp (6), Xavier Bourgault (3), James Hamblin (3), Justin Bailey (3), Samuel Dove-McFalls (1), Filip Engaras (1), Greg McKegg (1), Graham McPhee (1), Dino Kambeitz (1), Devin Shore (1), Brad Malone (1).
- What does that tell you? Well, his first point was scored with Samuel Dove-McFalls and three defensemen on the ice, so that’s an indication the coaching staff placed low value on Tullio at the starting gate. Later on he found chem with Esposito-Griffith, then Esposito-Lavoie, then Philp-Griffith. All of those names are good to quality AHL players.
- Luke Esposito is a quality AHL player? I would say he’s a good AHL player, quite good. He owned a 56.5 percent goal share at evens, Eric Rodgers estimated he played 11 minutes at even strength. With 5-17-22 boxcars (all at evens) in 68 games, that works out to 1.76 pts-60 at even strength. That’s a good player, he can play center and mentor the kids. Valuable member of the organization who fans don’t know at all, or if they do, it’s about a guy who is related to Mark Messier getting a cushy job getting run over by angry 200-pound defensemen taken in the first round but too slow to play in the NHL.
- What is Tullio’s even strength points-60 from last year? Estimated at 1.78 pts-60. Remember, these are TOI estimates and we have to keep that in mind.
- Bourgault? 1.33 pts-60.
- Who is the better prospect? Bourgault. You have to give these young men more track, look what it did for Lavoie.
- What is his even-strength points-60 from last year? Estimated even-strength points-60.
- Yeah yeah. What was Lavoie’s even-strength points-60 in 2022-23? It was 2.17 pts-60 for Lavoie.
- Why don’t you publish these? Idiot! They’re damned dangerous. They’re estimates. You go off half-cocked with actual math, imagine the damage you might do with this stuff.
- Do you figure them out every year? Yes.
- Why wouldn’t you publish them? Because Eric entrusts me with this information and I want to use it properly. We can’t know everything and this is a valuable piece but the estimates aren’t perfect. They’re a guide.
- They’re a guide you keep from us? Yes. We don’t know for sure. So we shouldn’t use it as a hammer.
- That should have been the title of your book, “We Don’t Know for Sure.” Catchy.
It is hard to comprehend how thoroughly Rob Blake just messed up his own team.
The contracts that putz has doled out are among the worst in the history of the NHL. An insane waste of cap space for ungodly mediocre and beyond prime NHL players.
Friends this was the worst three weeks in the history of the LA Kings franchise. I dare say the worst GMing any of us have ever seen.
Blake should be fired immediately.
Rob Blake playing 4D chess while everyone else is playing checkers.
HH loves to remind us about aging curves and paying for non-prime years. Those are very true and its even more important when you’re talking about good but not elite offensive players.
Kopitar at this age and for his role is NOT an elite offensive player. But lordy he’s paid like one. In fact he’s overrated, all defensive forwards are insanely overrated and overpaid. AK sucks because he’s one of the most expensive offensive forwards in the league. His play doesn’t actively help his team win, all he does is prevent losing. Paying top dollar to hedge a loss is a fools gambit.
That is now two players that Blake has committed an insane amount of cap to that are very clearly non-Elite offensive players. These two signing are beyond the pale horrible. They are horrible backward looking and they are horrible forward looking. They are fireable offenses.
Lets compare AK and PLD offensively on their recent performance (last two seasons, regular season) with a comparable duo in Nuge and Hyman. I don’t think anyone deep in their hearts believes Hyman and Nuge qualify as truly elite scorers (if Nuge follows up last year lets talk) and they aren’t paid like it. PLD and AK are not offensive stars but they are paid like it. So I think this sort of works. There is little to suggest in their career play they are elite offensively but they play feature roles, with good teammates and get lots of PP time. The Comps aren’t perfect (Hyman isn’t a centre) but again what we’re looking at is non-Elite scorers.
So lets run some basic offensive outputs against the cap hits and salaries paid.
Goals, Points and Games Played (Regular Season)
The last two years AK has taken up $20 million in cap hit and got paid $15 million in actual dollars. Stat-line of 47 – 141- 163
Last two years PLD has taken up $11 million in cap hit and got paid $11 million in actual dollars. Stat line of 55 – 123 – 154
So the LA totals are – 102 – 264 – 317, at a cap hit of $31 million and salaries paid of $26 million.
Cap Hit $303,921/goal, $117,424/point, $97,792/game
Dollars paid $254,902/goal, $98,485/point and $82,019
Nuge has a cap hit of $10.25 million and actual salaries paid of $10.25. Line of 48 – 154 – 145
Hyman has a cap hit of $11 million actual salaries paid $6.65 million. Line of 63 – 137 – 155
Oiler totals – 111 – 291 – 300; Cap hit $21.25 million and salaries paid of $16.9 million.
Cap Hit – $191,441/goal, $73,024/point, $70,833/game
Dollars Paid – $152,252/goal, $58,076/point, $56,333/game
We can see that in Cap Hit PLD and AK cost 58.8% more per goal, 60.8% more per point and 38.1% per game than Nuge and Hyman. In actual salaries paid the difference is way worse. PLD and AK cost 67.4% more per goal, 69.6% more per point and 45.6% more per game than Nuge or Hyman.
Now will that spread widen or close as AK reaches his 37th and 38th years while the combined cap hit he and PLD runs 41.2% higher over the same time?
Any model that tells you these are equivalent doesn’t understand that the only way to win a hockey game is to score goals. And the cost per goal, per point and per game played is astronomical for the return.
Trust me you don’t want to start adding McD, Leon, Kane and Fiala to these totals…
What an gregarious waste of money both real and cap.
The L.A. Kings just lost their shot at a Cup and its because Rob Blake lost every single move he made in the last three weeks. Astonishing incompetence.
Cap Friendly has AK at 689 out of 844 NHL players in cost per point.
PLD is ranked 481 out of 844 NHL players in cost per point.
Danault is 558 out of 844 NHL players.
Fiala is 517 out of 844 NHL players.
Every single one of them is a drag on scoring in cap dollars from the mean NHL player.
Anyone telling you this is depth doesn’t understand hockey. The entire strategy is doomed to failure.
While I agree with you on PLD I have to disagree about Kopitar.
Kopitar ran his line to a 58% for goals scored with 35% against elites at 5v5. Yes he doesn’t score as much but you only have to score 1 more goal than you allow to win.
The part I think Blake should be fired for is not getting a good goalie to assist in the defensive misery they inflict on everyone.
Can we have the Eskimos history revoked from whatever the hell this thing masquerading as a local football team is? They clearly don’t deserve to be associated with an organization that was great.
Hahahahahaha
To recap: Hahahahahahaha
God what a disaster
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/travis-yost-can-filip-zadina-be-saved-1.1981504
Travis Yost on Zadina – this appears to have been published a couple of hours before the news of the termination broke
The wings have had some tough drafts.
2015 Svechnikov, 19th was placed on waivers
2016 Cholowski, 20th, was exposed in Kraken draft
2018 Zadina, 6 ov. placed on waivers.
630 CHED charging up its Oilers coverage.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9815353/630-ched-new-afternoon-lineup/
Dan Tencer
@dantencer
Sports radio in Edmonton is dead.
Even the rights holder for the Oilers and Elks has reduced their sports related air time to what a decade ago would have been considered beyond unfathomable.
I grew up an avid listener. Was lucky enough to spend a decade inside it.
D-E-A-D.
Dan is right…
@SportsnetSpec
Bob Stauffer reports that @OilersNow
will move to the 5-7 pm slot this September.
That means it will serve as the pregame for home games, and be pre-empted when Oilers in ET.
With the demise of TSN 1260, a further decline in daytime sports listening here in Edmonton.
Stauffer followed up on this and corrected Spector.
There will be no pre-empting.
On weekday game nights, Oilers Now will be on prior to a 90-minute pre-game show on Ched. On the weekends, there will be a 90-minute pre-game show.
Oilers Now with Bob Stauffer
@OilersNow
·
7h
To clarify, @OilersNow
will precede a 90-minute Face-Off Show each game day! This gives you three straight hours of hockey content before puck drop.
On weekends, you can expect the same 90-minute Face-Off Show to lead you into play-by-play action.
No preempting of our show.
This is always not good news
But when it doesn’t work anymore, and there is little recognition from managers, zero investment in the future, this happens to all industries, and they end
The trend isn’t new. Especially this one. It will be replaced by what does work
For such a highly rated show, this is a horrible move. I probably was able to listen on average 3 hrs per week while driving in YYC, if I was driving. Now it might be 30 minutes per month.
I think this is bad business and bad for the brand.
Ouch! Edmonton Oilers have one of the worst prospect pools in NHL, draft expert says
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/ouch-edmonton-oilers-have-one-of-the-worst-prospect-pools-in-nhl-draft-expert-says
Seeing Vancouver in 30th and Boston dead last warms my heart.
Who cares?
We have a team good enough to compete for the Cup.
See below re. Zadina – these so-called draft expert opinions are mostly click bait; these guys are wrong 90% of the time.
We have just the right amount of young players percolating in the minors. If one or two can establish themselves as NHLers per year, then that’s more than enough, as long as you surround them with solid pros and have a couple of superstars to drive the bus.
Yup. When the team’s core is over 30 or your point total at the end of the season is under 80 you need to be concerned if the prospect pool is faltering. Top 8 teams have other things they are working on.
There seems to be a fair bit of confusion about why Zadina is becoming a free agent.
This article with a bunch of quotes from Yzerman does a good job explaining the situation I think. It’s from Monday (after he cleared waivers the 1st time) though. So since these quotes, Yzerman (with Zadina’s agreement) decided to actually terminate the contract.
(https://www.audacy.com/971theticket/sports/detroit-red-wings/detroit-red-wings-waive-filip-zadina-after-trade-request)
The summary as I understand it is:
-Zadina signed the 3 x $1.85M deal last summer.
-He struggled a lot this past year including missing significant time to injury (3 months with a broken leg).
-Before the draft Zadina asked for a trade to he could have a fresh start.
-Yzerman obliged but there were no takers.
-Yzerman then put him on waivers to see if someone would take him for free. Nada.
-At that point (where the article leaves off) Yzerman is saying he’s still a Red Wing and we hope he’ll come to camp and make the team.
-A couple of days later Zadina is on waivers again, this time for a mutual termination of the contract.
-Presumably in that time Zadina indicated to Yzerman that he was willing to forego the final 2 years and $4.56M of his contract ($3.7M in AAV) to find a fresh start elsewhere.
-We are here.
The quotes from Yzerman in the linked article make it pretty clear he’d rather have kept Zadina, but the attempt to trade, waiving him and the termination were all done to respect the player’s wishes.
It’s also been mentioned that the situation was due to Zadina being assigned to Grand Rapids. My understanding is that he was only waived because he wanted out, not that he wanted out because he was being waived (Grand Rapids is not playing hockey now, after all).
Anyway, feel free to correct me if I’ve gotten any of that wrong.
I doubt you have it wrong Jp
But I highly doubt we have the full story.
He can’t be traded
Nobody claimed him
He won’t be bought out
He can try to make the team
player knows his value on the market now. But he hates it there so much he walks away from 5M , knowing his earnings may be halved at least and probably one year deal. Termination of contract. I doubt any agent would advise such a tactic.
What is driving this? I find it odd.
Yes, you’re totally right that we don’t know the full story behind why Zadina is unhappy and wants out. Perhaps we’ll learn more with time, perhaps not.
Of course no agent would advise it from a financial standpoint but, of course, none of us know what is important to any individual player (person).
Noah Philp just gave up an NHL contract and a reasonable chance to make the daily portion of near $800K for parts of the year (he would likely have spent some time on the NHL roster – heck, he could be in line for 4C on opening night as it currently stands).
Much of this was in Yzerman’s press conference that I watched on YouTube.
You are bang-on!
There is no issue bringing in any player on $775K so, sure, I’d be just fine with Zadina on a league min deal.
He’d essentially be competing with Lavoie (and Pederson I guess) for 12/13F.
Loser gets waived and assigned to the AHL (if not claimed).
Even though I think Lavoie would slide through waivers (many more famous names than a 24 year old 2nd round pick with zero NHL games gets pass through every year), they probably don’t take that waiver risk on Lavoie unless Zadina clearly beats him out and looks promising to make an impact.
Zadina probably doesn’t report to the AHL if assigned (he gave up millions of guaranteed money so he wouldn’t be playing in Grand Rapids).
So any Zadina contract is essentially a PTO? I don’t have a problem with that.
Who’s a better fit between Evgeni Svechnikov and Zadina at/near league minimum?
Oh, Zadina – age makes that a no-brainer, in my opinion.
Chris Johnston@reporterchris·1m
Anze Kopitar signs a two-year extension with #LAKings carrying a $7M AAV. The contract runs through 2025-26.
———-
I thought he would be cheaper going forward. $10M for his age 36 season, plus $7M for his age 37 and 38 seasons.
Does PLD get to play center before 2027?
As an Oilers fan, I am very pleased with this news.
Not quite as ecstatic as I was when they signed Dubois to the over-pay but pleased nonetheless.
Of course PLD will. You see, the LA Kings ice their top 9 in such a way that they all have identical minutes. They don’t really, but I will keep saying they do because I want to emphasize how tremendously talented they are. And when you have Old Anze Kopitar as your 1A center, and Danault as your 1B center, and you have part timer center PLD as your 1C center who your mortgaged your future for, nothing can or will go wrong. Nothing. Lookout Oilers!
will danault be happy playing 10-12 mins a night? he wanted to play 2c not 3c
I absolutely positively and in all ways completely LOVE this!!! This comment has made my day. Utterly
Sir you are a gem!
I imagine this is the much talked about “cheap deal” that Old Anza would sign to insure the future dominance of LAK. Odd that this cheap deal seems – I don’t know how shall we say “not cheap”?
Imagine thinking this is a problem.
Kopitar 28G 74P 20:18
PLD 27G 63P 18:27
Danault 18G 54P 18:19
Lizotte 11G 34P 12:56
Looks like incredible depth to me.
With the changes LA has made to its forward depth, how they deploy their wingers will be interesting to watch.
I would imagine Fiala moves up to the second line and Kaliyev could too.
Boom.
Is this for OT games? Doesn’t add up to 60
I’m waiting for the aging curve data to be presented……..
Ha!
Do you think it’s a problem?
McDavid 64G 153P 22:23
Draisaitl 52G 128P 21:44
Nugent-Hopkins 37G 104P 19:48
McLeod 11G 23P 14:11
And almost as expensive as this incredible depth but with 1/2 the production.
Shazam.
Nuge played very little centre.
Mcleod got smoked and the Oilers don’t have any 4C in Lizotte’s are code.
Since you started with the cringey “Imagine thinking X” trope,
I suppose I can reply to your last comment with the “Cope and Seethe” trope.
😉
Indeed. So we return to the crux of it.
When a team has three 18-20 minute centers, one of them plays on the wing. Usually the guy who’s not very good on draws.
I genuinely don’t know what you’re referring to here. Nothing McLeod did at any point involved getting smoked.
McLeod and Lizotte actually had remarkably similar numbers last season (TOI, point rates, goal share) save for Lizotte getting fed Ozone starts.
Both had excellent seasons as 3rd line centers, and I expect that’s where both of them will play next year.
Did McLeod get smoked during or after the Oilers eliminated the Kings from the playoffs twice in a row?
Does 4C matter when 1, 2 and 3 are putting up half?
Not really, no.
No matter what anyone might incorrectly say for a narrative, McLeod actually killed vs. elites this past season. The sample wasn’t huge but he did have over 100 minutes vs. elite forwards and was 6-2 goals.
While the Oilers were 0-1 goals, the Oilers dominated flow of play with McLeod on the ice vs. Eichel – to the tune of a near 80% expected goal share.
—————————-
Recent data suggests that Woody may want to use McLeod in a tough minutes role – opening up Drai.
Of course, Woodguy with credit on this.
Boom.
This is the biggest waste of Centre Cap space in the NHL.
it’s an abomination to intelligent hockey fans everywhere.
Blake should be fired immediately for this shit sandwich
You guys remember when all our skill didn’t have size and all our size didn’t have skill, then Hartikainen spun off that defender in the corner, took the puck to the net and scored? And we all missed Penner a little less? I think about that goal whenever he’s brought up.
Or am I misremembering things, I often misremember things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yoArOoXsfQ
Anyone with good hockey eyes saw that goal and thought exactly the same. It was a moment around here.
They had a crop Sather would have turned into a serious hockey team…but their coaching/development at the time was awful.
I had to look up what he’s up to now.. He’s living the dream in the Swiss-A with a 35 year old Omark and a 37 year old MAP.
i enjoy reading all the info you have on the prospects and the past LT. Thank you.
I love this time of year for prospects. You can see what they did, what the team has, and what may be. Beautiful.
Yep. Summed up perfectly.
Training camp hopefuls series is something I look forward to.
Thanks for doing these every year, it’s truely something special.
a lot of chitchat on the web and the classic meme of “holland wants his detroit pick” coming up.
all numbers 5v5. Comparison to yammo posession wise and he is similar while playing with much worse linemates.
This is an excellent buy low candidate who is willing to forego over 4 million bucks to bet on himself which demonstrates a very high level of self belief and willingness to put the work in.
He would arguably be the most complete rw in the oilers “under 25” group.
Either way, bring him to camp, give him a shot and believe in him and the pressure is off
Zadina
XGF% 53.42 %
HDCF% 54.48%
PDO 0.979
on ice shooting % 4.49%
offensive zone start % 46.41%
Yammo.
XGF% 52.61%
HDCF% 55%
PDO 1.014
on ice shooting % 8.51%
offensive zone start % 51.08%
I have plenty of time for zadina on a 2 year 775k contract.
Run him on the 3rd line as foegele-mcleod-zadina. He has been grossly unlucky and his plus shot is still there. He can likely see how well it worked for kostin in edmonton and be willing to get back with kenny and tyler wright for another opportunity.
A few scouting reports below from draft day.
Zadina is a pure and talented goal scorer. He has a very heavy wrist shot, with a good release. He can combine this with his skating and power game to be a real threat off of the wing. An absolute sniper, he can score with his wrist shot, snapshot, slap shot and one-timer. He even has a strong backhand. Zadina takes advantage of his shooting skill, as he generates a very high number of shot attempts every game. Zadina also has the soft hands to score in close to the net. He can bury rebounds, deke goalies, and get tip-ins. He has a knack for getting himself open, finding soft areas on the ice even when everyone is watching him.
As a playmaker, he needs to make better decisions with the puck. Zadina can sometimes hold on to it for too long and get himself into trouble instead of moving it quickly. He has the passing skill to get it through tight openings and make tape-to-tape passes when he does move it. He is willing to work in the cycle game, and to battle along the boards and in front of the net. Zadina is not afraid to get to the dirty areas of the ice in order to create offensive chances. He will need to put on weight in order to do this at the next level.
Eliteprospects: Filip Zadina is a dynamic offensive forward that plays a complete game. A deft and agile skater, he exhibits explosive mobility both up and down the ice. In all three zones, he proactively looks to create problems for the opposition. His awareness is indicative of his high level of hockey sense, and he knows how to make plays and scoring chances materialize. Has a goal scorer’s toolbox, complete with the individual puck skills that one comes to expect from today’s elite offensive players. The accurate release on his shot is noteworthy and is a defining aspect of his offensive capabilities. Defensively sound, he disrupts lanes and pressures the opposition to make hasty decisions; he is tenacious in pursuit of puck control and transitions up-ice naturally. All-in-all, Zadina can be categorized as both a two-way forward with a well-rounded game and a dominant offensive force.
NHL central scouting “High-end skilled forward with excellent playmaking ability. He has very good vision, excellent anticipation and exceptional natural instincts. Possesses strong puck skills, a quick, accurate release, and looks to shoot. He is committed to playing a two-way game.”
NHL site– April 30: “A sharpshooter with good size (6-0, 195), he can change the course of a game when he decides to take matters into his own hands.”
Mike morreale– April 30: “He’ll go to the tough areas to generate scoring chances and is a dynamic goal scorer with a quick, accurate release.”
the infamous craig button– April 28: “An elite scoring winger who is dangerous from the circles down and competes to score inside the dots. “
sam cosentino– April 28: “His innate ability to score goals is translatable in that he knows where to go to get into scoring position. Zadina has pro bloodlines and answered every task asked of him all season in a variety of events.”
sporting news– April 28: “This Czech sniper consistently has been the best player for his teams in both league and international play. Zadina is a complete player who is a danger to score no matter the situation.”
dobber prospects– April 26: “Uses his size and strength to create space and then delivers electric moves and finishing ability. He’s absolutely lethal from the circles down. A tireless worker who loves the big stage.
Why would Detroit and Yzerman be giving up on him already? There has to be more to it then just his stats.
he is owed 5 mil over the next 2 seasons of real cash.
He asked for a trade, has said he’ll refuse to play in the AHL, and they are trying to free up cap room to trade for Debrincat.
Ooh Ok now I see why it’ll be interesting to see how this plays out. I bet Sather would be all over this for a pump and dump. I would love to see this guy hit a home-run playing on Leon’s line.
I have all the time in the world for another Parducipe Prince.
#imissales
#hemsky
Lots of talk pre-draft about his plus shot and scoring abilities, but goal scoring has been nonexistent at the NHL level, at least at 5v5. And it’s not for lack of trying, he generates a healthy number of shots. It seems he’s making poor choices in his shot selection though, resulting in poor scoring rates. His 5v5 shooting percentage for the past 3 years is abysmal.
20-21: 4.35% (69 shots)
21-22: 5.13% (117 shots)
22-23: 6.00% (50 shots)
At what point do you stop blaming “luck”?
perhaps he needs to sit down with the leagues leading goalscorer and have a discussion about better shot selection.
Sitting down with leo and connor would get any true hockey guys spidy senses going.
Wait
He is going to pass on 5m for two years so he can earn 775k for 2 years with another team?
Detroit wasn’t going to buy him out ? They bought out Yamamoto. But they were going to let Zadina and that cap hit rot in the AHL?
mutual termination of contract?
something is missing or I’m missing something
Nope, they were not buying out Zadina – the buyout window is closed. I’m not sure if Detroit has any player-filed arb that would open up a second buyout window but, even if they did, Zadina’s cap hit is below the threshold – buying him out was no longer available.
From accounts, they were going to send him to Grand Rapids and, yes, it seems he chose to give up that guaranteed money to get out of the org and will take MUCH less to sign somewhere else.
There are thousands of talented players in the world. Being good in the Best League all depends on what’s between the ears
Some have humility and will see their place sooner. Some don’t and a lot of players like that never accept that they aren’t going to be elite in the NHL as they were in junior leagues. See: Yakupov
So Holland and Wright drafted Zadina. Why wouldn’t Holland just swap Yamamoto for Zadina? Then trade Kostin who I believe had half the G.M’s in the league’s attention. It won’t take long for Kostin to be a favourite in meat&patatoes Detroit.
He didn’t swap Yamamoto for Zadina because he didn’t want Zadina’s cap hit. Now he’s free to sign the player to a cap hit probably half the size.
Meanwhile, Yzerman continues to jettison useful young players. I have no idea what his end game is, but I doubt this is 3D chess.
Again Holland drafted him if Holland does a 1 for 1 trade and gives Zadina a chance to turn it around. Again Holland gets a pick for Kostin who l believe would muster up a late 2nd or 3rd pick. How good would Zadina be playing with Leon Connor are Nuge as his Centreman. When’s the last time Holland traded a player for a draft pick? Holland burns through 2nd and 3rd rounders like maryjane at a Bob Marley concert.
You seem to be missing the point or you’re phrasing your counterargument poorly.
First, as Armchair said, the fact that Zadina occupies 1.825mil in cap space is why he didn’t do a 1-for-1. EDM needed all 3.1mil of that cap space allocated to Yamo, not just 1.3mil of it.
Second, I think you’re overestimating Kostin’s value. Teams that are paying attention can see that Kostin has every sign of a player on a hot streak. Maybe part of the hot streak involved him “figuring it out” and maybe he builds a career out of it, but I think it’s foolish to think it’s a given that a team would give a 2nd (or even a 3rd) for him.
You’re likely talking about a 5th or maybe a 4th in return which is likely close to what the market was demanding in exchange for taking on Yamo (saving EDM the ~500k in cap space compared to the buyout). That same 500k in cap space is now looking like it’ll be pretty vital for this team to ice a full roster and would’ve been blown through and beyond by doing a 1-for-1 of Yamo for Zadina.
The certainty that you have that Holland is “blowing assets” here isn’t warranted IMO.
Obviously Holland and Wright liked Zadina enough to draft him in the 6th hole. Foegele could be traded at the very worst for the pick Kostin returned. Fans of a team always think there players have a higher return in saying that power forwards always have really good sales. It’s a copycat league we all watched Vegas manhandle everyone they played to win the Cup.
And obviously Holland and Wright have followed his progress since being drafted. They may still hold onto their belief in the player but that doesn’t equate to them sacrificing existing NHLers for said belief.
Ignoring any specifics of how, the statement “Foegele could be traded” suggests that you believe the team would be better off swapping Foegele for Zadina and the extra 900k in cap space. Or at least that Holland and Wright believe that. Am I understanding your position correctly?
do keep in mind that this wasnt holland and wright “reaching” as so many on twitter like to say.
zadina was pretty much the consensus #3 forward in that draft
Zadina has proven to be an inferior offensive player in the NHL to Yamamoto and you think the Oilers should have added him, at close to $2MM to play with McDavid?
If Yamamoto is known as “stone hands”, I wonder what the moniker for Zadina’s hands would be given, well, he could only dream of Yamamoto-like production in the NHL…..
To answer the question, acquiring Zadina at close to $2MM on the cap would have been horrendous and completely counter-productive to the intent of moving Yamo.
I think its become clear that Yzerman wanted Kostin – that was his target and the cost he paid we the buyout cap hit on Yamo.
For his claim to fame of being a skilled winger I believe we should get a full refund on this blatant false advertisement.
I think it was a really good development season from Tulio.
Lets not forget, this was a 5th round pick, coming out of junior and playing his first year in pro hockey.
Keith Gretzky even said that the initial thought was that Tulio may start in the ECHL but he ended up “making the team”. He get little rope and little ice early but he did work himself in to more ice and responsibility. He had a couple of heaters and did see some PP1 and top line time here and there through the year.
I don’t anticipate we’ll see him in NHL games this season but I do think he’ll be a very impactful player for the Condors this season and a year from now we’ll be talking about him alot more.
I like players like Tullio. I don’t see him sticking in the NHL though. Brodziak and Pisani are big fellows that can skate, and Tullio is really undersized
He may do it, but pretty small and not elite speed or offense doesn’t seem to work in the NHL. We’ll see how Kailer fares elsewhere
I know that Yamamoto was banged up (alot) this past year and underperformed his contract and hasn’t had success in the playoffs but the league does have many “undersized players” that are able to knock out NHL careers.
One 90-foot comparable for Tulio, for me, is a Brendan Gallagher type player.
He is FAR from a lock to make it, probably less than 50% if I am being honest, but there is a story to be told here and we’re only in chapter 4.
Yamamoto gone and he’s not coming back he’ll sell some tickets in the Northwest just like Jim Craig did in Massachusetts.
Yes there are a few. And as I said almost always high skill players and strong to elite skaters. They avoid other players, like P Kane, use skill and vision. The only exception I can think of is Tyler Ennis who played a long time but not an elite player
When we are talking about Kailer and Tullio, we are talking about players that are a lot lighter than the other ‘small’ players that have careers. As in 15-25 lbs lighter. That’s a lot of weight difference on a 5’9″ or so frame. If you also aren’t a top level producer, I don’t see the point
Why not have a normal sized player or larger who can do more things? If Yamamoto was able to continue stealing pucks and using his smarts, being sneaky, that might have worked. Instead he engaged physically and he’s in some trouble I think with his NHL health
Him hitting people was/is pointless. Nobody is worried about Kailer coming at them. You’ll notice they are when it’s Kane or Kostin bearing down
Vegas completely owned Yamamoto they double teamed Leon as they knew Kane was injured and Yamamoto was a give away machine. There’s a reason why Yamamoto is gone too bad it cost us Kostin who was found money like a pink one blown gently in the parking lot at Costco.
This thread was about Tulio and the ability of smaller stature players to carve out a career in the NHL. I’m not sure what you are making it in to a bash Yamamoto thread…… this pattern and trend is quite childish, in my opinion.
In any event, I don’t think Yamo needing to be moved cost Kostin at all.
Kostin wasn’t the price the Oilers paid to get rid of Yamo. The Wings wanted Kostin, the Oilers were not going to be able to keep him, and the price the wings played was taking on Yamo and the buyout cap hit.
If your comparing every vertically challenged player in the league to Yamamoto your setting the bar pretty darn tooting low. You should check out Debrincat stats are Holloway ex teammate Caulfield who’s as exciting player as they come and there’s always Johnny Hockey.
I don’t know what you are even getting at – you are just stretching every post to find a way to take shots at Yamamoto even when totally irrelevant.
Stage 1. Denial.
Stage 2. Anger.
I see that you’ve been stuck in Stage 2 for some time.
There were actually a fair few (non-elite) pint sized players who were famous enough to recognize but not enshrined in the HoF. That means they were pretty decent players, IMO. Some guys not previously mentioned, and in no order:
Of course, those players span eras, and there are more going farther back, but the point remains that we tend to overlook certain players’ size at times and just remember their contributions.
Which is probably the highest compliment one can pay those players who started off at a disadvantage.
What I like about the above list of outliers is that they all earned their living, being non-elite and small in stature, in different ways. A solid mix of skill, will, gumption, and some with emery cloth for good measure.
Stan Jonathan-one of the toughest players ever.
Valeri Kharlamov- one of the greatest speed and skilled players ever.
Speaking of epic misses…..drafted #32 overall in 2016-and still only 25 years old- will Tyler Benson even be in the NHL next season?
Not sure European ice will be favourable to Tyler….
Hard to call a second rounder who misses “epic”.
True.
But, when you combine it with our # 4 overall pick in that very same draft – hard to understate the impact or lack of on this current edition of the Oilers.
It’s a big part of where we are at. The only 1 OV that panned out is Connor. Of course that is quite a thing. I don’t regret the misses in the higher first round picks because if they had worked out as hoped, we wouldn’t have Connor
But the fact remains that Hall had to be dealt and in Traditional Post Sather Fashion they got trounced in the deal, and Larsson walked for nothing. One hoped to be losing a lower end player there not you’re top D
Nuge is a favourite, but he is a weaker top 6 player. Had the big season but gets fed against good players in the heart of the game, as the numbers show, and was MIA in the playoffs mostly. Yak was a wasted pick although it was a weak draft year. JP was bought broken
Drai is great. Nurse has covered his draft position. Bouch has. We’ll see about Holloway and Bro. So Connor, Drai, Nurse and Bouch. That is only 4 guys being strong contributors and very little return to the org from the assets spent on the others. That’s not even counting lower first rounders like Klef that aren’t playing or on the team that returned anything much, going back to Hall
The big issue being that because so many high value 1st round picks didn’t deliver back equivalent value assets in not being Oilers, the system is greatly weakened. But it got us Connor. Ideally you draft and develop really good players, and get a great return for those you can’t keep, and keep the ‘churn’ going as Kenny said, and keep your team at the top
Tough to say that Nuge hasn’t panned out.
Not all 1st overalls need to be “near generational” to pan out.
He’s had an up and down career but he’s always been a solid to plus 2-way player, a PK guy and PP witch and he’s now coming off a season of 104 points (and was 52nd in the NHL in 5 on 5 points – they weren’t all PP).
He’s likely to be a lifetime Oiler who will have played in all situations for close to two decades when he’s done – from his teenage years till the end (likely).
Hard to say Nuge has panned out when he’s never even scored 50 points. . .
😉
Hall won a heart, looked good in the playoffs last year too.
Only Yak didn’t pan out.
Frank Seravalli
@frank_seravalli
Hearing Red Wings will place Filip Zadina on unconditional waivers at 12 noon ET today for purposes of mutual contract termination.
Zadina is foregoing the $4.56 million remaining on his deal, seeking a fresh start elsewhere. Huge courage to bet on himself.
Chris Johnston
@reporterchris
It doesn’t sound like Filip Zadina will have to wait too long before finding a new home. He’s got some options.
This turned out to be a truly epic miss #6 overall.
I hope MacLeod and Bouchard have the same agent!
McLeod’s agent is Joe Resnick.
Bouchard’s is Dave Gagner.
Is Joe the guy from Goo Goo Dolls?
Somebody help me out with this. Why did young Zadina not wait for a buyout and take his money? What will he get for compensation on a mutual termination ? We don’t see this very often when there is two years left and lots money.
It would appear the Wings were prepared to send him to the AHL and he didn’t want to go.
Ah Teemu. Oh well.
Crazy they didn’t even try with Roy. As full opposite you can get from the Detroit model. Though if I recall in those days Oil ran their contracts closer to the 50 man than present? Anywho.
Roy did get a 1-year AHL contract from the org, but not an ELC.
Thx Bruce!
Tidelowe is more crotichy thsn usual today. Thanks for laugh.
Ned Tasso on a tear.
Maybe Holland will sign his pick from Detroit Filip Zadina
Oiler Alert@OilerAlert
‘Zadina at six for us was a little bit of a shock,’ said Tyler Wright, Detroit’s director of amateur scouting.
When asked what he liked about Zadina, Wright said, ‘Everything.’
Is a reunion in order? #LetsGoOilers
It would be interesting to hear Tyler’s thoughts ( from back then) on Quinn Hughes….
This Zadina pick by Holland / Wright might be a factor in them both now working in Edmonton.
Yeah, it would be interesting to hear what Wright thought of Hughes.
Bob Mckenzie had Zadina #4 and Hughes #8, so it would seem there was strong consensus that Zadina > Hughes on draft day. Holland joined the Oilers not even a year after that pick, so it’s highly unlikely there was any connection.
Vancouver got it right when they picked Hughes #7 though. Makes you wonder if they know something about drafting. But then looking at all their recent top 10 picks (Horvat, Virtanen, Juolevi, Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin) you wonder why they only know it half the time.
No Holland was set to go upstairs to a higher chair in the Detroitorganization and it was there waiting for him as he pushed for the moves that were made in hiring the new gm etc. and they had it set up for him to be taking it a bit easier and over see things a bit. All of this has been in the media and is well documented, He personally was not ready to not be heavily involved and took on a new challenge as the Oilers were floundering in a big way.. and now they aren’t floundering..
I don’t have a credible view on Zadina, but a) he’s from Pardubice, same as Ales Hemsky, and b) he played with Lavoie in Halifax, and c) played with Martin Gernat and David Musil while with Trinec Ocelari.
That’s enough for me. Git’er done, Kenny!
LT notes “Pisani v. Comrie”
That’s an interesting comparison. Both local guys, both played for the St. Albert Saints and then went the NCAA route. After that their respective fortunes diverged, as Pisani spent three years in the AHL and Comrie went right to the bigs after holding the Oilers hostage for an oversized contract.
Comrie’s final NHL Totals, games, goals, assists, points, PM:
589 168 197 365 443
Pisani’s final NHL Totals, games, goals, assists, points, PM:
462 87 82 169 200
Pisani will forever have the 2006 halo, Comrie will forever have the spoiled rich kid stink. Pisani’s career arguably cut short by illness, but overall did Comrie have a better career?
So in Tullio vs Bourgault…”Both” is an answer. I’m cool with that.
The Comrie family were pillars of the Edmonton community and all of the boys have reached hockey heights few can dream of. Highly successful despite the negative press and Lowe being a prick.
Comrie was a great hockey player (his brother arguably better). Unfortunately, the Oil decided to trade away all shelter at center and let the kid sink or swim. Horrible player management.
He was a much better player than Pisani – and I love Pisani.
It is a shame that a degenerative hip (Mike) and concussions (Paul) doomed what could have been a truly great NHL story.
Loved watching them both play. 89 was my jersey before 83.
Through mutual friends, I was able to play shinny with the Comrie boys back in my teens. I remember getting angry – I was fine with the older brother being way better than me, we are essentially the same age but I was not OK with this hot-shot kid 3-4 years younger than me skating circles……. given they both made the NHL, I’m cool with it now.
Hopefully it doesn’t come at the expense of the 1st round pick, but I agree Tullio has that feel about him.