THRASHER

The idea is to have a lush farm system that produces a quality crop every season. Of course, after a time that system delivers so much talent the hockey club goes on a series of deep runs, thereby making it difficult to sustain the farm. Late picks, traded picks, a team like the 1980’s Oilers or the current Pittsburgh Penguins mortgaged some or much of the future to keep riding the wave.

Since Connor McDavid arrived in 2015, how many good or great crops has this team produced?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster construction options for the Oilers over the next seven months.
  • New Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto has the talent to win a job with the Oilers on merit, if he’s healthy.
  • Jonathan Willis: Jesse Puljujarvi still has upside and the Oilers’ patient approach is the right one
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Dave Tippett on rounding out his coaching staff, fixing Oilers’ special teams and using Connor McDavid
  • Lowetide: Handicapping the Oilers’ young defencemen and their chances of replacing Andrej Sekera
  • Lowetide: Is Kirill Maksimov progressing as the Edmonton Oilers’ next great hope for a true homegrown sniper?
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers ease pressure on crowded defensive pipeline by trading John Marino to the Penguins
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
  • Lowetide: Joel Persson is ideally situated to win an opening night roster spot with the Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2019-20 Oilers might look like without trade missteps.
  • Lowetide: Finding the best candidates for the final two spots on the Oilers skill lines in 2019-20.
  • Jonathan Willis: Projecting the Oilers’ opening night lineup, line combinations and more.
  • Lowetide: Does the James Neal acquisition impact Oilers’ prospects in 2019-20?
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

2014-15 Entry Contracts

8 deals, 794 games: Leon Draisaitl (351), Jujhar Khaira (154), Jordan Oesterle (151), Iiro Pakarinen (134), Dillon Simpson (3), Bogdan Yakimov (1), Kellen Jones, Mitchell Moroz. Draisaitl scored 50 goals last season, he has now passed from quality forward to impact player. Khaira and Oesterle seem destined to pass 245 games, that’s three full NHL seasons. I think this was a quality crop.

2015-16 Entry Contracts

9 deals, 668 games: Connor McDavid (287), Darnell Nurse (279), Anton Slepyshev (102), Eetu Laurikainen, Joey Laleggia, Kyle Platzer, Greg Chase, Braden Christoffer, Ben Betker. The motherlode, McDavid is the strongest trump card in the world, leveling entire cities in a single bound. Nurse has emerged as a bona fide NHL player. Both men should clear 1,000 games if injury doesn’t impact them. Impact crop.

2016-17 Entry Contracts

6 deals, 532 games: Matt Benning (205), Drake Caggiula (182), Jesse Puljujarvi (139), Patrick Russell (6), Nick Ellis, Jere Sallinen. Benning, Caggiula and Puljujarvi should have careers of reasonable length (500 games?) and credit to the Oilers for getting two college free agents in what was a down draft season. Puljujarvi’s potential is substantial, the story hasn’t been written either way. I wrote about JP in The Athletic this morning.

2017-18 Entry Contracts

6 deals, 50 games: Ethan Bear (18), Caleb Jones (17), Joe Gambardella (15), Ryan Mantha, Shane Starrett, Ziyat Paigin. It was a quiet year, although Kailer Yamamoto did get into nine games not listed here. I think all three players who are counters here have a chance to become legit NHL players.

2018-19 Entry Contracts

9 deals, 32 games: Kailer Yamamoto (26), Cooper Marody (6), Tyler Benson, William Lagesson, Nolan Vesey, Stuart Skinner, Cameron Hebig, Dylan Wells, Tyler Vesel. This should be a successful crop, with three fine forwards and Lagesson on defense. Might take a couple of years to get rolling, though.

2019-20 Entry Contracts

8 deals, 7 games: Evan Bouchard (7), Joel Persson, Dmitri Samorukov, Kirill Maksimov, Ostap Safin, Ryan McLeod, Gaetan Haas, Logan Day. There’s a chance this becomes the best crop since 2015. Three substantial defensemen, some speed at center and a couple of scoring wingers. Evan some draft pedigree from Bouchard.

JAY WOODCROFT’S CONDORS 2019-20

Goalies: Shane Starrett [.918], Dylan Wells [.909], Stuart Skinner [.879]

Defense: Caleb Jones [23] and Evan Bouchard [31]; Dmitri Samorukov [20] and Joel Persson [30]; William Lagesson [16] and Ethan Bear [24]; Keegan Lowe [12] and Logan Day [24].

Forwards: Tyler Benson [39], Cooper Marody [44], Patrick Russell [31]; Joe Gambardella [38], Josh Currie [31], Kirill Maksimov [29]; Joakim Nygard [33], Ryan McLeod [26], Kailer Yamamoto [27]; Ostap Safin[17], Brad Malone [23], Cam Hebig [18]; Nolan Vesey [7].

This should be the best Oilers AHL team in almost two decades. Woodcroft is about to graduate a large number of Condors to the NHL.

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98 Responses to "THRASHER"

  1. jtblack says:

    1st post? maybe not by the time I hit post ….

  2. slopitch says:

    “Evan some draft pedigree from Bouchard” 👏

    Draft and develop is so important to the winter belt teams. When the gm is pissing away talent at Chairelli levels you need to draft like 1980 oilers or die. Not even McDavid can cover the losses.

  3. jtblack says:

    A Lush Farm system is derived from keeping and making picks. And when you are a sh*t team, you should be adding more picks. In 2014 the Oilers picked Drai and then didn’t pick again until around #100.

    In 2015 they took Connor and then didn’t pick again until around #100. So they have had very little talent hit the line up in 2016/ 17 /18.

    The Oilers of the last 3 -4 are paying for not keeping and making their picks in 2014 & 2015. not sure who / how they gave all the 2014 picks away. We know who gave all the 2015 picks away.

    This is US

  4. Ben says:

    If things go south early with the big club I might consider the AHL package to keep a closer eye on The Bake. What a fun defence group!

    Pretty solid returns on Broberg’s game yesterday, which is nice to see. I still have concern about the amount of playing time he’ll get in the SHL, and am not convinced that 30 minutes a night playing in all situations in the OHL wouldn’t be a better path for this player.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Miles to go with the drafts referenced but very interesting to see the lists of ELCs – Chiarelli was invested in college free agent signing with some success. Holland seems invested in even older European feee agent signings and is betting on some success for this coming season.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    Looks like Lavoie is expected to play today but not Rodrigue – unofficial.

  7. Woogie63 says:

    Draft and DEVELOP, all NHL teams draft kids that can play in the NHL. The real work to build a NHL player starts after the draft.

    Do the Oilers have 2 scouts for each development colleague?

  8. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    HT Joe:
    As Oilers fans, we don’t get to call a player the village idiot when our collective management team has held that title for so long.

    It’s not Jesse’s fault he was drafted so high… it’s our management’s fault. He’s not the player the Oilers want him to be so they blame him for not living up to their expectations. It’s Dustin Penner vs MacT all over again (“he’s big and strong… why doesn’t he play mean too?!” except this time it’s “he’s a former 4th overall… why can’t he drive his own line and why does he need actual coaching?”).

    The Oilers with Chia and Tambellini developed a past of not doing due diligence.I don’t like Jesse’s stance now, but the Oilers aren’t getting a pass from me on this situation.

    Agreed. The issue now, however, is that when you are in a hole and you want to get out of it – stop digging. If you want to change a problematic situation you are in, be a part of the solution, do not make the problem worse.
    I think most of us in Oiler’s Nation are routing for JP – whether he plays with the Oilers or not. He is a likable young man with skills and talent hockey players dream of having.
    The JP/Lehto group has been, and is still, making his problems worse. KH is not going to be jerked around by them.
    Oh to be a fly on the wall of the Oiler’s dressing room the past few years…. 😉

  9. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I caught half the Sweden-Canada game yesterday. Broberg looked great. Looking forward to seeing more from him and the other youts. Bakersfield should challenge for a Calder this year too!

    It will be very interesting to see how LD evolves over the next 3 years. SO much talent and possibilities, but only 3 spots, 2 really for the top 4 which most likely will include from this list:
    Klef, Nurse, Jones, Samorukov, Broberg and possibly Lagesson.

    When the time is right, KH should trade from this pool for an equivalent RD and address one of the other positional needs.

    Edit: Signed Captain Obvious

  10. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    From early this morning on the previous thread:
    Gerta Rauss:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/lucic-admits-he-put-too-much-pressure-on-himself-with-oilers/ar-AAFdOZB?li=AAggXBR&ocid=mailsignout

    Lucic comments yesterday

    ___

    Is Tippet the type of coach to pin Lucic verbal to the wall before Flames games this year, or do you think it would even be necessary?

  11. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    If JP is out of the picture for 2019-2020, I think KH will have an opportunity to reduce risk at 3C by trading one of his “value” contracts in the bottom 6 for $ space or for a player that would be a modest upgrade at 3C to a team in a cap jam by end of training camp at the latest.

  12. Paulie says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    From early this morning on the previous thread:
    Gerta Rauss:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/lucic-admits-he-put-too-much-pressure-on-himself-with-oilers/ar-AAFdOZB?li=AAggXBR&ocid=mailsignout

    Lucic comments yesterday

    ___

    Is Tippet the type of coach to pin Lucic verbal to the wall before Flames games this year, or do you think it would even be necessary?

    Lucic was signed to be a leader in the locker room and on the ice, wore the “A”, got paid $6M per year, but couldn’t handle the pressure. Boo hoo. I guess his performance had nothing to do with his declining skills and inability to keep up with a faster game.

  13. just sayin says:

    jtblack:
    A Lush Farm system is derived from keeping and making picks. And when you are a sh*t team, you should be adding more picks.In 2014 the Oilers picked Drai and then didn’t pick again until around #100.

    In 2015 they took Connor and then didn’t pick again until around #100.So they have had very little talent hit the line up in 2016/ 17 /18.

    The Oilers of the last 3 -4 are paying for not keeping and making their picks in 2014 & 2015.not sure who / how they gave all the 2014 picks away.We know who gave all the 2015 picks away.

    This is US

    I agree 100% but lots of people on this forum were arguing strongly that we should trade our picks this year. Draft and develop. We are not one player away from winning the Cup.

  14. Professor Q says:

    Paulie: Lucic was signed to be a leader in the locker room and on the ice, wore the “A”, got paid $6M per year, but couldn’t handle the pressure. Boo hoo. I guess his performance had nothing to do with his declining skills and inability to keep up with a faster game.

    No, he just plays better with older Captains, it seems. That’s where his success lies. Something about those…younger, highly skilled, “Generational” players that makes his game suffer, I suppose.

  15. OriginalPouzar says:

    That Nick Ellis retirement was out of nowhere (at least for me) and surprising. Good for him for doing what he wants with his life but somewhat of an obscure decision.

  16. OriginalPouzar says:

    It seems like the 18/19 deals have less potential overall than the 19/20 but it may not turn out that way.

    What is one of the goalies pops in to a legit NHL starter? That could turn the tables.

    Bouchard and Sammy have the highest potential of the d-man but maybe Sammy never pops and Lagesson is that 22 min Robyn Regher clone?

  17. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ben:
    If things go south early with the big club I might consider the AHL package to keep a closer eye on The Bake. What a fun defence group!

    Pretty solid returns on Broberg’s game yesterday, which is nice to see. I still have concern about the amount of playing time he’ll get in the SHL, and am not convinced that 30 minutes a night playing in all situations in the OHL wouldn’t be a better path for this player.

    I would recommend the AHL package either way. If I remember correctly, the one-team package was like $60 for the year last year. I assume that was USD but it was full value. I watched ALOT of Condors last year and it was entertaining and informative.

    The stream is generally pretty good and Ryan Holt does a great job.

    My only issue is the general 8pm start time as I was waking up around 2am for the gym.

    I’ve changed my schedule to wake up a few hours later so more third periods for me this coming year.

  18. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oh, and with respect to Broberg, he showed great yesterday. The skating was expected and obvious but I saw a better transition passing game than I expected and, even more encouraging, some fantastic vision and smarts on the breakout. I saw him as much more than just the skating.

    As far as his placement this coming year – well, ya, pros and cons to each. We like to talk about “playing 30 minutes in Hamilton” but, in reality, if he was there it would a lower number – still substantial minutes but I doubt it would be 30.

    Listening to Howson from Plymouth earlier i the week and it seems like they’ve been in touch with a few high ends related to his club team and he should definitely have the opportunity to play alot. If he can earn top 4 minutes by year end, I think the benefit in Sweden is big. That’s a great league and alot of high end NHL d-men played their draft plus 1 years in it.

  19. pts2pndr says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    I caught half the Sweden-Canada game yesterday. Broberg looked great. Looking forward to seeing more from him and the other youts. Bakersfield should challenge for a Calder this year too!

    It will be very interesting to see how LD evolves over the next 3 years. SO much talent and possibilities, but only 3 spots, 2 really for the top 4 which most likely will include from this list:
    Klef, Nurse, Jones, Samorukov, Broberg and possibly Lagesson.

    When the time is right, KH should trade from this pool for an equivalent RD and address one of the other positional needs.

    Edit: Signed Captain Obvious

    If Kesselring continues to develop there may be no need to trade for a right D. We will know more in 2 to 3 years.

  20. OriginalPouzar says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    I caught half the Sweden-Canada game yesterday. Broberg looked great. Looking forward to seeing more from him and the other youts. Bakersfield should challenge for a Calder this year too!

    It will be very interesting to see how LD evolves over the next 3 years. SO much talent and possibilities, but only 3 spots, 2 really for the top 4 which most likely will include from this list:
    Klef, Nurse, Jones, Samorukov, Broberg and possibly Lagesson.

    When the time is right, KH should trade from this pool for an equivalent RD and address one of the other positional needs.

    Edit: Signed Captain Obvious

    I definitely have Lagesson on that list.

    He’ll likely have to wait for a call-up this year but, when it comes, he is likely to prove he is fully ready for 3LD and will soon be a fan favorite.

    I see him with Robyn Regher type potential – at leas 22 aggressive minutes as 2LD

  21. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: If Kesselring continues to develop there may be no need to trade for a right D. We will know more in 2 to 3 years.

    He’s a darkhorse/wildcard but in the conversation – McCurdy/Staples were raving about him at development camp.

  22. OriginalPouzar says:

    Broberg in the lineup for SWE and Silkanen centering the top line for Finland.

    Game at 11 (mountain) on TSN.

  23. Wilde says:

    Hi everyone, I’ve finished building the new medium I’m going to publish the Condors Tracking Project through. There’s more details at my blog, but right now there’s statistical overviews of William Lagesson, Cooper Marody and Mitch Callahan freely available, here’s the link to Marody’s:

    https://www.patreon.com/posts/cooper-marody-28739924

  24. JimmyV1965 says:

    just sayin: I agree 100% but lots of people on this forum were arguing strongly that we should trade our picks this year. Draft and develop. We are not one player away from winning the Cup.

    Everyone understands that you have to draft and develop to build a team. It’s not rocket science. But trading draft picks ain’t the problem. Trading draft picks for garbage is the problem. The team sucks today because Chia pissed away value in every trade he made.

  25. godot10 says:

    Ben:
    If things go south early with the big club I might consider the AHL package to keep a closer eye on The Bake. What a fun defence group!

    Pretty solid returns on Broberg’s game yesterday, which is nice to see. I still have concern about the amount of playing time he’ll get in the SHL, and am not convinced that 30 minutes a night playing in all situations in the OHL wouldn’t be a better path for this player.

    Broberg is already dominant against his peer group. The challenge of playing against men is better. Miro Heiskanen played on more year in Finland. He was ahead of where Broberg is now. Broberg likely needs two years. I’m fine if both of them are in Sweden.

  26. godot10 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    If JP is out of the picture for 2019-2020, I think KH will have an opportunity to reduce risk at 3C by trading one of his “value” contracts in the bottom 6 for $ space or for a player that would be a modest upgrade at 3C to a team in a cap jam by end of training camp at the latest.

    It will be raining 3C’s in September. Holland is still trying to get a difference making winger before he spends his remaining cap space on a 3C.

  27. Reja says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Agreed. The issue now, however, is that when you are in a hole and you want to get out of it – stop digging. If you want to change a problematic situation you are in, be a part of the solution, do not make the problem worse.
    I think most of us in Oiler’s Nation are routing for JP – whether he plays with the Oilers or not. He is a likable young man with skills and talent hockey players dream of having.
    The JP/Lehto group has been, and is still, making his problems worse. KH is not going to be jerked around by them.
    Oh to be a fly on the wall of the Oiler’s dressing room the past few years….

    I say Jesse plus gets traded next month after most of the GM’s return from their cottages and golf tournaments. I feel one team will take a chance even with Jesse’s surgery and baggage and will pay near what Holland is asking. Even though Jesse and his agent have lowered his value he still can be had cap wise cheap and his up-side of a line driving 20 goal plus semi-power forward has to intrigue a few GM’s. I have a feeling it’ll be Jesse plus a D- man for a very underrated and useful player.

  28. OriginalPouzar says:

    Brogerg playing the right side again today.

    Wonder if he’s been playing the right side at ll for his club team(s)?

  29. Victoria Oil says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    I caught half the Sweden-Canada game yesterday. Broberg looked great. Looking forward to seeing more from him and the other youts. Bakersfield should challenge for a Calder this year too!

    It will be very interesting to see how LD evolves over the next 3 years. SO much talent and possibilities, but only 3 spots, 2 really for the top 4 which most likely will include from this list:
    Klef, Nurse, Jones, Samorukov, Broberg and possibly Lagesson.

    When the time is right, KH should trade from this pool for an equivalent RD and address one of the other positional needs.

    Edit: Signed Captain Obvious

    I believe it is ‘yutes’, not ‘youts’.

    #MyCousinVinny

  30. Victoria Oil says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Brogerg playing the right side again today.

    Wonder if he’s been playing the right side at ll for his club team(s)?

    u 🙂

    He’s playing the left side on my TV. 🙂

    Nice rush and stickhandling a few minutes ago.

  31. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    He said as much at the draft, that he’s played both sides in the past.

  32. digger50 says:

    just sayin: I agree 100% but lots of people on this forum were arguing strongly that we should trade our picks this year. Draft and develop. We are not one player away from winning the Cup.

    I believe the thinking is more along lines that while drat and develop is important, there are other ways to build a team.

    Trades, move picks, waiver wire, college players, draft.

    Sometimes if you have one or two exceptional drafts you can spend futures to add to your core. This is targeting young core talent, not rentals.

    As always, draft or trade you need scouting and you need luck. Number 4 JP has not worked out well. Hamilton trade instead of Rienhart would have kept Hall. To me, it’s about have exceptional scouting and being ready for opportunity.

  33. Professor Q says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Brogerg playing the right side again today.

    Wonder if he’s been playing the right side at ll for his club team(s)?

    With many of our D prospects used to playing their opposite side, this has to add to the versatility of the group, non?

  34. Fiveinatrailer says:

    In 2014 I thought the picks went for scrivens and fasth…a second and a third?
    At some point we have picks for the honour of hiring Chiarelli and Maclellan (2 and a third again in 2015 or 2016?)

    So the poor trades made worse by paying for the guy to make them.

  35. OriginalPouzar says:

    Jimmy: Everyone understands that you have to draft and develop to build a team. It’s not rocket science. But trading draft picks ain’t the problem. Trading draft picks for garbage is the problem. The team sucks today because Chia pissed away value in every trade he made.

    That’s not entirely true.

    The Talbot trade was a win, notwithstanding the giving up of two net picks. Siegenthaler looks like he’s got a shot at being an NHL player but that trade was solid.

    Initial Maroon trade was a big win even with a pick going out (and Gernat).

    Deadline Maroon deal was also a win – its led to Marody and, at the time of the UFA sale, Maroon was struggling big time and had a bad back.

    Spooner for Gagner, with retention.

    Jokinen for Cammy.

    Not sure what my point is, its not to defend Chiarelli, but he did do fine in some deals – yes, the smaller ones.

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot: Broberg is already dominant against his peer group.The challenge of playing against men is better.Miro Heiskanen played on more year in Finland.He was ahead of where Broberg is now.Broberg likely needs two years.I’m fine if both of them are in Sweden.

    I tend to agree.

    Lets see where we are in 8 months.

    If Broberg stays healthy and works his way up the depth chart playing legit top 4 minutes with some special teams – that would be a hell of a year.

    I’m hoping that SEL vs. AHL is a big conversation 10 months from now.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:
  38. OriginalPouzar says:

    Holland will be an intermission guest on TSN in Canada’s game this afternoon.

  39. defmn says:

    I don’t think I have ever heard Button so effusive in his praise of an Oiler prospect as he has been of Broberg in this tournament.

  40. OriginalPouzar says:

    He really has been glowing of Broberg and, while its definitely warranted, I wonder if a Holland drafted prospect as opposed to a Chiarelli drafted prospect (i.e. Bouchard) impacts his thoughts?

    He’s had positive things to say in general about the Oilers off-season and believes they are on the right path – I was a bit surprised given the underwhelming nature of most moves.

  41. Reja says:

    defmn:
    I don’t think I have ever heard Button so effusive in his praise of an Oiler prospect as he has been of Broberg in this tournament.

    Button knows better then to craw under Holland’s skin.

  42. defmn says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    He really has been glowing of Broberg and, while its definitely warranted, I wonder if a Holland drafted prospect as opposed to a Chiarelli drafted prospect (i.e. Bouchard) impacts his thoughts?

    He’s had positive things to say in general about the Oilers off-season and believes they are on the right path – I was a bit surprised given the underwhelming nature of most moves.

    Could well be. Guys like Button often have self serving motivation in public remarks. That said he really has mentioned him in a positive manner an awful lot from the parts of games I have watched.

  43. OriginalPouzar says:

    He was still talking about him leading up to the Canadian game.

  44. Tarkus says:

    Button was bullish on Broberg before being billed by the Oil.

    This video is from a year ago. Segment on Broberg begins at 1:38:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsORePo83po

  45. defmn says:

    Tarkus,

    Thanks for that.

  46. Reja says:

    Tarkus:
    Button was bullish on Broberg before being billed by the Oil.

    This video is from a year ago.Segment on Broberg begins at 1:38:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsORePo83po

    Maybe Button and Holland go way back and Button new Holland was probably picking Broberg.

  47. Geranium Lover says:

    OriginalPouzar: Spooner for Gagner, with retention.

    No biggie but Keith Gretzky made that trade.

  48. Todd Macallan says:

    Button saying TB has a “Foote fetish” is legitimately funny.

  49. Todd Macallan says:

    Wow Broberg has grown another inch in the last month, now over 6’4″ according to Holland.

  50. OriginalPouzar says:

    My fantasy of holding on to Jesse signing and being at camp really seems to be, just that, fantasy. Holland being interviewed in Plymouth and asked about Jesse – said nothing has changed. We’ll work the phones alot the next few weeks but, if nothing materializes, Europe is probably his only option.

  51. pts2pndr says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: Agreed. The issue now, however, is that when you are in a hole and you want to get out of it – stop digging. If you want to change a problematic situation you are in, be a part of the solution, do not make the problem worse.
    I think most of us in Oiler’s Nation are routing for JP – whether he plays with the Oilers or not. He is a likable young man with skills and talent hockey players dream of having.
    The JP/Lehto group has been, and is still, making his problems worse. KH is not going to be jerked around by them.
    Oh to be a fly on the wall of the Oiler’s dressing room the past few years….

    I am rooting for JP, but if you are Holland you do not reward bad behaviour. If you are Holland you have to stay firm in what is right, you can not set a precedence that anyone is more valuable than the team. The JP group should have kept their desire to be moved private. That would have it made it incumbent on the GM to honour the request to maintain team credibility on their treatment of players. Once JP’s camp went public it decreased the managers bargaining position so all bets are off. JP and or his agent went all in on a pair of deuces and I am an Oiler fan that believes at this time you set a president and let him sit. No one wether it be player, coach or manager is more important than the team!

  52. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Fiveinatrailer:
    In 2014 I thought the picks went for scrivens and fasth…a second and a third?
    At some point we have picks for the honour of hiring Chiarelli and Maclellan (2 and a third again in 2015 or 2016?)

    So the poor trades made worse by paying for the guy to make them.

    Can’t remember exactly but they also lost a couple picks in that time window for the bullshit “talking to Chiarelli” and some other similar nonsense. I think it was for hiring McLellan. How ironic really two not great decisions (Chiarelli & McLellan) with an even greater negative impact (lose two picks). A rule that once the Oilers were screwed out of two draft picks, was immediately erased…

  53. pts2pndr says:

    Geranium Lover: No biggie but Keith Gretzky made that trade.

    It is unfair and disingenuous to lay this on Gretzky. He got caught in a pissing contest between a coach that refused to play Strome on the wing and a GM who was one the ropes.

  54. pts2pndr says:

    Geranium Lover: No biggie but Keith Gretzky made that trade.

    Really! You are going to go with that.

  55. pts2pndr says:

    Professor Q: With many of our D prospects used to playing their opposite side, this has to add to the versatility of the group, non?

    That is the glass half full way of looking at it. There is a nagging felling in me that believes they still haven’t fully bought into the math that shows D are better playing their strong side.

  56. Geranium Lover says:

    pts2pndr,

    I’m not trying to blame anyone.

    OP posted that Chia traded Spooner for Gagner.

    Chia was fired Jan 23 2019

    The Gagner Spooner trade was made Feb 16 2019 so obviously Chia didn’t do that trade.

    Keith Gretzky was the Acting GM. Maybe another Oiler manager made the deal.

    I have no idea why you are upset, have a great day.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: That is the glass half full way of looking at it. There is a nagging felling in me that believesthey still haven’t fully bought into the math that shows D are better playing their strong side.

    I’m not so sure – seems like a bit of a stretch:

    – for one, management has changed so, what’s been done in the org in the past doesn’t really matter much

    – the only real NHL example of this has been Russell and that was kind of out of necessity. I guess not finding a real 2RD year over year could give credence to your theory but I think it was more of a “easier said than done”

    – sounds like Broberg has played some right side (as he has the last few games) but I doubt that was a factor in him being drafted – I think Holland wanted the player because he has the potential to be elite and is built for the current NHL game. So far the kid has looked great – he is indeed dominant against his peer group as Godot mentions.

  58. Geranium Lover says:

    pts2pndr: Really! You are going to go with that.

    I have sincerely reflected on the matter.

    Yes, I am going to go with that.

  59. Scungilli Slushy says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    I caught half the Sweden-Canada game yesterday. Broberg looked great. Looking forward to seeing more from him and the other youts. Bakersfield should challenge for a Calder this year too!

    It will be very interesting to see how LD evolves over the next 3 years. SO much talent and possibilities, but only 3 spots, 2 really for the top 4 which most likely will include from this list:
    Klef, Nurse, Jones, Samorukov, Broberg and possibly Lagesson.

    When the time is right, KH should trade from this pool for an equivalent RD and address one of the other positional needs.

    Edit: Signed Captain Obvious

    I see one or both of Klef and Nurse going in the next few years. Not that they aren’t worth keeping, but age, contract values, and that those bubbling under may also be better players. Nurse has the fisticuffs that might give him an edge.

  60. defmn says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I see one or both of Klef and Nurse going in the next few years. Not that they aren’t worth keeping, but age, contract values, and that those bubbling under may also be better players. Nurse has the fisticuffs that might give him an edge.

    That can’t be right. Isn’t that what competent teams do? 😉

  61. Scungilli Slushy says:

    JimmyV1965: Everyone understands that you have to draft and develop to build a team. It’s not rocket science. But trading draft picks ain’t the problem. Trading draft picks for garbage is the problem. The team sucks today because Chia pissed away value in every trade he made.

    Props, bang on.

  62. Scungilli Slushy says:

    defmn: That can’t be right. Isn’t that what competent teams do?

    Right, not happening. #Oilers

  63. rickithebear says:

    Our best crops:
    2014: MacT GM
    #3 Draisaitl
    #99 Lagesson – our best complete even Dman prospect post 05-06 lockout.
    2015: MacT GM
    Won the lottery.
    #1 Mcdavid – the best player in the game per nhl players 2 do 3 seasons.
    #16 Barzal – PC traded MacT pick.

    Can you imagine the team IF MacT was allowed to run the draft.

    MacT in place for 15-16
    We would have.
    Slepyshev-Mcdavid- Draisaitl
    Pouliot #56 PKF- RNH-Eberle
    Hall- Barzal – Purcell
    Lander-Hendricks #125 PKF – Pakarinen #80 PKF

    Klefbom – Fayne
    Nurse- Schultz
    Davidson- Hunt

    Talbot – trade aranged by MacT for petry & Hemsky trade picks.

    MacT/Bucky would later arrange signing of Benning and Caggulia.
    Had already established a Col UFA history.

    This was a GM that did not Know what he was doing?
    Fuck that!

    Cup core roster:
    1. We needed to exchange the coach.
    To a 3-2-1 HD def sys coach like Gallant, Tippett, Deboer

    2. Top 10 open HD save% goalie
    Talbot

    3. 3+ top 60 HD Dman
    Fayne 1st comp
    Benning 2nd comp
    Davidson 3rd comp
    Nurse if not chasing 3-1-1-1. The same is true today for Nurse.

    4. A top team in 125 fwd depth.
    That would have been the kind of off depth that allowed us to out score.

    5. +ve goal dif special teams PP/PK
    PKF unit 1 and 2 for sure.
    PPF 1A
    Mcdavid – Draisaitl – RNH – Eberle
    PPF 1B
    Mcdavid – Draisaitl – Hall – Barzal

    This is not revisionist history.
    This is what MacT would have acquired.

    End of PC’ s reign
    We had

    Draisaitl – Mcdavid – Chaisson
    Lucic – RNH – Kassian
    Khaira – Spooner – Reider
    – Brodziak –
    Puljujarvi would ask for trade. Based on 2.6 seasons under PC

    Nurse – Larsson
    Sekera – Russell
    Klefbom – Benning
    Manning – Persson

    Koskinen

    Top 125 even fwd
    16-17
    13 evg 53 C 38LW. 37RW
    30 Evp 64 C 37LW 34RW

    18-19
    15 evg 53C 38LW 36RW
    33 Evp 62C 29LW 36RW

    126/3 =42
    18-19
    #42c 18 evg Mcdavid 31, RNH 19
    #42LW 13 evg Chaisson 13 evg,
    #42RW 14 evg, Draisaitl 31, Kassian 14, Archibald 12, Granlund 10 all top 62 RW

    17-18
    Khaira #59 LW with Pacioretty, Steen, Butakovsky, B. Pouliot.

  64. rickithebear says:

    Broberg has a huge championship winning dmen flaw.
    The number of times he was 4th skater back defending the HD area is fucking awful.
    I suspect a Holland Run team will coach that out of him.

    As Holland, Tippett, Playfair will try to do with Nurse & Klefbom.
    “4 and 5 attacking but only when no def risk”

    Gives them a couple years to see whether they can learn!

  65. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    My fantasy of holding on to Jesse signing and being at camp really seems to be, just that, fantasy.Holland being interviewed in Plymouth and asked about Jesse – said nothing has changed.We’ll work the phones alot the next few weeks but, if nothing materializes, Europe is probably his only option.

    Holland has cut bait on Jesse awhile back and rightfully so. With Lucic and Jesse gone I expect to see a more unified team with everyone buying in to Mr. Tippett game plan. When our Captain and Leon as well said shit are get off the pot which teammates was this directed at?

  66. Reja says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I see one or both of Klef and Nurse going in the next few years. Not that they aren’t worth keeping, but age, contract values, and that those bubbling under may also be better players. Nurse has the fisticuffs that might give him an edge.

    One of nurse, kelfbom or Larsson will be gone by this time next year my guess would be Kelfbom. I think Nurse will sign a healthy 5 year deal after Christmas.

  67. Jethro Tull says:

    rickithebear: Can you imagine the team IF MacT was allowed to run the draft.

    Unfortunaley he was allowed to run the on ice team that got us those high draft picks.

    Winning high draft picks is a testament to incompetence, not to being good.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Holland has cut bait on Jesse awhile back and rightfully so. With Lucic and Jesse gone I expect to see a more unified team with everyone buying in to Mr. Tippett game plan. When our Captain and Leon as well said shit are get off the pot which teammates was this directed at?

    Well, at the time, it was Lucic and Kassian that had asked for trades….

  69. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: One of nurse, kelfbom or Larsson will be gone by this time next year my guess would be Kelfbom. I think Nurse will sign a healthy 5 year deal after Christmas.

    Healthy for whom?

  70. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Well, at the time, it was Lucic and Kassian that had asked for trades….

    Even when Kass was on the ropes with Todd and the team I would venture that these comments were definitely not directed at Mama Kass

  71. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Healthy for whom?

    If Nurse comes out of the gate which l think he will l believe Tippett is going to do wonders for him. Extension will happen without drama later this season and I’m guessing 6.5x 5yrs front loaded.

  72. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I see one or both of Klef and Nurse going in the next few years. Not that they aren’t worth keeping, but age, contract values, and that those bubbling under may also be better players. Nurse has the fisticuffs that might give him an edge.

    Yes. It makes sense Because Klef has a great contract and Nurse has some unique skills from all the d group that it could be the former if one of the others can complement a top4 with nurse and 2 others

  73. Reja says:

    That has to be a first in MLB history that a traded pitcher throws a combined no- hitter in his first start.

  74. godot10 says:

    Reja: One of nurse, kelfbom or Larsson will be gone by this time next year my guess would be Kelfbom. I think Nurse will sign a healthy 5 year deal after Christmas.

    The Oilers aren’t going to trade one of their two impact defensemen. The Oilers pretty much have not been able to win a hockey game with Klefbom injured or out of the lineup in the last four seasons.

  75. pts2pndr says:

    Woogie63:
    Draft and DEVELOP, all NHL teams draft kids that can play in the NHL.The real work to build a NHL player starts after the draft.

    Do the Oilers have 2 scouts for each development colleague?

    It is my opinion that each drafted player should have a mentor assigned to him. One person could mentor more than one drafted player. The ideal would be 7 mentors with each mentoring one player each year. The mentor would be responsible for all things associated with the newly drafted players adjustment to the pro environment. This would assure that all drafted players have a person from the organization they can communicate their concerns to. Given the value of drafted players, this seems to be a minimum requirement. This individual would be responsible for setting up a training regimen complete with areas to work on and a way to measure results.

  76. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: Healthy for whom?

    What do you consider fair for both sides on:

    1. a five year deal
    2. an eight year deal

    The cost of buying UFA years is always high. What do you believe his top level is, a first or second pairing D?

  77. pts2pndr says:

    godot10: The Oilers aren’t going to trade one of their two impact defensemen.The Oilers pretty much have not been able to win a hockey game with Klefbom injured or out of the lineup in the last four seasons.

    Would the Oilers entertain trading Klefbom if they felt that :

    A. Nurse could handle first pairing minutes
    B. Samorukov has proven he is ready for top four D by his play in the AHL

  78. Fiveinatrailer says:

    Reja:
    That has to be a first in MLB history that a traded pitcher throws a combined no- hitter in his first start.

    Didn’t Halliday throw a no hitter in his first playoff game after getting traded by the jays?

    Reja:
    That has to be a first in MLB history that a traded pitcher throws a combined no- hitter in his first start.

  79. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: It is my opinion that each drafted player should have a mentor assigned to him. One person could mentor more than one drafted player. The ideal would be 7 mentors with each mentoring one player each year. The mentor would be responsible for all things associated with the newly drafted players adjustment to the pro environment. This would assure that all drafted players have a person from the organization they can communicate their concerns to. Given the value of drafted players, this seems to be a minimum requirement. This individual would be responsible for setting upa training regimen complete with areas to work on and a way to measure results.

    Horcoff’s wife is going to need a bigger kitchen having all the kids over for dinner….

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: What do you consider fair for both sides on:

    1. a five year deal
    2. an eight year deal

    The cost of buying UFA years is always high. What do you believe his top level is, a first or second pairing D?

    This is somewhat avoiding the question but what I think is reasonable does not necessarily equate to what Nurse and his agent think are reasonable.

  81. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: Would the Oilers entertain trading Klefbom if they felt that :

    A. Nurse could handle first pairing minutes
    B. Samorukovhas proven he is ready for top four D by his play in the AHL

    There is the historical problem with this team – “by his play in the AHL” – this must be changed to “by his play in the NHL”. The former is hoping the spot can be filled without knowing and, frankly, one cannot prove to be top 4 NHL ready via AHL play.

  82. Silver Streak says:

    OriginalPouzar: Well, at the time, it was Lucic and Kassian that had asked for trades….

    what intel do you reference re: Kassian asking for a trade ?

  83. Reja says:

    Fiveinatrailer: Didn’t Halliday throw a no hitter in his first playoff game after getting traded by the jays?

    Doc was traded in the offseason of 2010 he pitched a perfect game in May then followed it up with a no-hitter in the postseason. This was Sanchez first start after being traded.

  84. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: There is the historical problem with this team – “by his play in the AHL” – this must be changed to “by his play in the NHL”. The former is hoping the spot can be filled without knowing and, frankly, one cannot prove to be top 4 NHL ready via AHL play.

    But, you say, NHL pre-season does not mean anything in proving NHL readiness. You are one tough nut to crack, dude. Are you saying that plus AHL play must lead to solid NHL pre-season play followed by good real games in the NHL = NHL ready.

  85. Reja says:

    godot10: The Oilers aren’t going to trade one of their two impact defensemen.The Oilers pretty much have not been able to win a hockey game with Klefbom injured or out of the lineup in the last four seasons.

    Kelfbom injured again how many times have we heard that.Oilers have some puck movers chomping at the bit who will be on the cheap and hopefully not made of glass.

  86. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: There is the historical problem with this team – “by his play in the AHL” – this must be changed to “by his play in the NHL”. The former is hoping the spot can be filled without knowing and, frankly, one cannot prove to be top 4 NHL ready via AHL play.

    OK so who sits so Samorukov can get the top four minutes to show he is ready, Nurse or Klefbom? At some point the decision would or will have to be made. In replacing a bonafide player with an unproven player is a fact of life.

  87. JimmyV1965 says:

    Reja:
    That has to be a first in MLB history that a traded pitcher throws a combined no- hitter in his first start.

    Ugh!!! I believe LT was questioning this trade the other day. That banging sound you hear is my head hitting the wall.

  88. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: This is somewhat avoiding the question but what I think is reasonable does not necessarily equate to what Nurse and his agent think are reasonable.

    I keep hearing you say that Nurse will price himself out of what the Oilers can pay. You also say that the team can not promote an AHL player until he has proven himself in the NHL. Please tell me how in blazes you propose this is done with your hardline requirements. What you propose is not possible. You can not have it both ways. With your requirements no player would get promoted. You make broad based statements that are preposterous.

  89. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: Horcoff’s wife is going to need a bigger kitchen having all the kids over for dinner….

    Note I said mentor not babysit!

  90. Reja says:

    JimmyV1965: Ugh!!! I believe LT was questioning this trade the other day. That banging sound you hear is my head hitting the wall.

    Makes no sense to trade cost controlled starters for pennies on the dollar some real strange moves by the Boo Jays

  91. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Glovjuice: But, you say, NHL pre-season does not mean anything in proving NHL readiness. You are one tough nut to crack, dude.Are you saying that plus AHL play must lead to solid NHL pre-season play followed by good real games in the NHL = NHL ready.

    You almost, very nearly, have the essence of it except that OP believes that preseason play means … NOTHING!!!! But don’t give up hope Juice, I have a feeling that you have cracked a tough nut or two if that ever becomes a concern.

  92. Seismic Source says:

    Buy Bitcoin

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    SilverStreak: what intel do you reference re: Kassian asking for a trade ?

    IIRC, back in November when he was struggling the team had given him permission to “seek out a trade”. I guess its not quite “asking for a trade” but I think at the time he was looking to move on.

  94. OriginalPouzar says:

    Glovjuice: But, you say, NHL pre-season does not mean anything in proving NHL readiness. You are one tough nut to crack, dude.Are you saying that plus AHL play must lead to solid NHL pre-season play followed by good real games in the NHL = NHL ready.

    Please, if you are going to make personal remarks on me, try and understand the post you are responding to.

    It was posited that one of Klef or Nurse could be traded if someone like Samorukov proves to be top 4 NHL ready by his play in the AHL.

    There are many players that have great success in the AHL and it doesn’t translate – absolutely great play in the AHL is a good indicator and should lead to the call-up and an NHL spot – likely on the third pairing and, once that box is checked, move up.

    Trading one of Nurse/Klef because Samorukov is killing it in the AHL is a bit premature, in my mind.

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    Being NHL ready based on AHL results and trading a Klefbom because of AHL results are not quite the same.

  96. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Seismic Source:
    Buy Bitcoin

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  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Kelfbom injured again how many times have we heard that.Oilers have some puck movers chomping at the bit who will be on the cheap and hopefully not made of glass.

    and once they prove, not only to be NHL ready but to be legit top 4 NHL players, incumbent top 4 players can be moved.

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: OK so who sits so Samorukov can get the top four minutes to show he is ready, Nurse or Klefbom?At some point the decision would or will have to be made. In replacing a bonafide player with an unproven player is a fact of life.

    What about bringing him up and playing him on the 3rd pairing?

    Lots of players have great AHL success that does not translate to the NHL.

    Once he checks the “NHL player” box and shows success on the 3rd pairing, some time in the 2nd pairing before trading the incumbents would be a good idea, no?

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