Sunday Morning Coming Down

by Lowetide

As a coach, Craig MacTavish could find offense from young forwards. It wasn’t always the first-round picks, in fact early picks seemed to have a more difficult path than the workers. It might have had something to do with MacT’s own hockey experience, although that’s a guess and the main point is he found players that could help him from the farm system.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster construction options for the Oilers over the next seven months.
  • New Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto has the talent to win a job with the Oilers on merit, if he’s healthy.
  • Jonathan Willis: Jesse Puljujarvi still has upside and the Oilers’ patient approach is the right one
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Dave Tippett on rounding out his coaching staff, fixing Oilers’ special teams and using Connor McDavid
  • Lowetide: Handicapping the Oilers’ young defencemen and their chances of replacing Andrej Sekera
  • Lowetide: Is Kirill Maksimov progressing as the Edmonton Oilers’ next great hope for a true homegrown sniper?
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers ease pressure on crowded defensive pipeline by trading John Marino to the Penguins
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
  • Lowetide: Joel Persson is ideally situated to win an opening night roster spot with the Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2019-20 Oilers might look like without trade missteps.
  • Lowetide: Finding the best candidates for the final two spots on the Oilers skill lines in 2019-20.
  • Jonathan Willis: Projecting the Oilers’ opening night lineup, line combinations and more.
  • Lowetide: Does the James Neal acquisition impact Oilers’ prospects in 2019-20?
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

MACT’S ROOKIE FORWARDS (EV/60)

Mike Comrie 2000-01 (2.52)

Andrew Cogliano 2007-08 (2.37)

Ales Hemsky 2002-03 (2.26)

Shawn Horcoff 2000-01 (2.24)

Fernando Pisani 2002-03 (2.13)

Kyle Brodziak 2007-08 (2.08)

Sam Gagner 2007-08 (1.97)

Jason Chimera 2002-03 (1.90)

Jarrett Stoll 2003-04 (1.39)

Mike Comrie had a strong run after (finally) signing with the Oilers, and MacT used him in a feature spot. Andrew Cogliano got a similar push and made the most of it seven years later. Ales Hemsky was the most gifted offensive rookie during MacT’s time as coach, he delivered those numbers as a teenager. Sam Gagner also posted impressive rookie numbers under MacT as a rookie.

For me, one of the things MacTavish did to make his teams better was finding goals from secondary sources. Fernando Pisani, Jason Chimera and Kyle Brodziak had no draft pedigree, but they succeeded as rookies offensively. Even Jarrett Stoll, who struggled a little with scoring as a rookie, grew into a quality contributor.

DAVE TIPPETT’S ROOKIE ARIZONA FORWARDS (EV/60)

Anthony Duclair (2015-16) 2.05

Max Domi (2015-16) 2.03

Christian Dvorak (2016-17) 1.62

Brendan Perlini (2016-17) 1.29

Jordan Martinook (2015-16) 1.27

Paul Bissonnette (2009-10) 1.25

Tobias Rieder (2014-15) 0.94

Lawson Crouse (2016-17) 0.88

Tippett had good success, but the Coyotes didn’t run kids heavily until 2015-16. Biggest surprises for me: The offense he got from Bissonnette and Duclair, as rookies. Oilers rookie forwards who may thrive under Tippett? I think Tyler Benson, Cooper Marody, Kailer Yamamoto, Josh Currie and Joe Gambardella are in very good spots.

OILERS ROOKIE FORWARDS SINCE MACT (EV/60)

Connor McDavid 2015-16 (3.00)

Nail Yakupov 2012-13 (2.18)

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2011-12 (1.93)

Taylor Hall 2010-11 (1..85)

Jordan Eberle 2010-11 (1.82)

Mark Arcobello 2013-14 (1.79)

Linus Omark 2010-11 (1.76)

Josh Currie 2018-19 (1.65)

Jesse Puljujarvi 2016-17 (1.44)

Magnus Paajarvi 2010-11 (1.39)

Leon Draisaitl 2014-15 (1.05)

Teemu Hartikainen 2010-11 (1.01)

Lee Fogolin was the heart and soul of the glory Oilers, I get emotional thinking about his handing off the “C” and the way he conducted himself on and off the ice. John Short was on the Lowdown a couple of years ago, and was comparing current Oilers to the Stanley team. He said the obvious (McDavid, Gretzky plus Messier, Draisaitl) but then placed Adam Larsson in the Fogolin slot. It’s an important position and one not easily filled. I hope Larsson enjoys a major rebound season.

ABOUT JESSE

Saved this for the end, because I don’t want to write it. Jesse Puljujarvi is 21 and seeking a new situation, hoping for a better place. I hope he finds it. I think he would have been better off with Chiarelli as the Oilers GM at this time, PC would have seen the situation from the beginning. Ken Holland sees an asset, has no plans to deal it for 10 cents on the dollar and we are here—and may well be in the same spot a year from now. This isn’t ‘eat your vegetables’ but the hammer is decidedly on one side.

If Ken Holland didn’t respond when the agent went public, and didn’t respond when the player did, then the die is cast. Jesse Puljujarvi will spend the winter in Europe, and he might spend two. Ken Holland has zero reason (barring a trade that is suitable) to end the standoff.

This isn’t going to end any time soon, but I do hope Jesse finds that better place someday.

138 comments
0

You may also like

0 0 vote
Article Rating
138 Comments
Newest
Oldest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Walter Gretzkys Neighbour

rickithebear:
Had this in my notes.

Cannot remember if I posted it here.

Comparing M. Tkachuks 19 yr evg season to JP’s.
Tkachuk
16-17 76gm; 958:49;
10 evg; 0.63 evg/60
Frolik 792:37
Backlund 785:28

Puljujarvi
17-18 65gm; 820:10; 10evg; .73evg/60
Lucic L 467:25
Mcdavid C 258:48
Strome C 238:25
Khaira L 136:34
RNH C 118:01
Drai R 103:43
Over 600min of Lucic/Khaira playing LW

18/19
46gm 527:54
RNH C 245:10
Khaira L 158:16
Lucic L 126:45
Caggulia L,C
Strome 68:52
Mcdavid 67:30
Brodziak 52:21

The kid racks evg better than M Tkachuk at 19 and you give him 67:30 with Mcdavid the next year!

What wingers got more with Mcdavid?

18-19
Mcdavid
Draisaitl LW,RW 888:03
Kassian RW 436:21
RNH LW 418:37
Chaisson RW 305:13
Rattie RW 247:31 Rattie?
Caggulia LW 144:21
Lucic LW 108:03
Khaira LW 68:55

That is 8 wingers getting better Mcdavid time.
How many wingers are their in a game?
8 wingers.
If that isn’t the oilers telling him (p……) You are not wanted, what is?

Rattle 247:31
Seriously!

Right but what if the rumors are true and McDavid expressed unwillingness to play with him? What do you do as coach or GM if the premier player on your team – and the league – has issues with this player?

I’m asking – what do you do? Ignore said premier player, make him do what the coach wants, or look for other linemate combinations that could work?

I don’t know the answer to this. We don’t know for sure (do we?) that McDavid has said this, but his end of season verbal said if you aren’t committed then get out, right?

Again there is no clear answer. But by all accounts the JP ship has sailed and there’s really little point in hashing out grievances about what went on. JP had the chance to come back, new coach, new GM, opportunity to start again but he and his agent chose to nuke the site from orbit.

It’s over. Whatever becomes of JP it won’t happen here in Edmonton. My bet is he goes on to a so-so career in Europe.

rickithebear

Had this in my notes.

Cannot remember if I posted it here.

Comparing M. Tkachuks 19 yr evg season to JP’s.
Tkachuk
16-17 76gm; 958:49;
10 evg; 0.63 evg/60
Frolik 792:37
Backlund 785:28

Puljujarvi
17-18 65gm; 820:10; 10evg; .73evg/60
Lucic L 467:25
Mcdavid C 258:48
Strome C 238:25
Khaira L 136:34
RNH C 118:01
Drai R 103:43
Over 600min of Lucic/Khaira playing LW

18/19
46gm 527:54
RNH C 245:10
Khaira L 158:16
Lucic L 126:45
Caggulia L,C
Strome 68:52
Mcdavid 67:30
Brodziak 52:21

The kid racks evg better than M Tkachuk at 19 and you give him 67:30 with Mcdavid the next year!

What wingers got more with Mcdavid?

18-19
Mcdavid
Draisaitl LW,RW 888:03
Kassian RW 436:21
RNH LW 418:37
Chaisson RW 305:13
Rattie RW 247:31 Rattie?
Caggulia LW 144:21
Lucic LW 108:03
Khaira LW 68:55

That is 8 wingers getting better Mcdavid time.
How many wingers are their in a game?
8 wingers.
If that isn’t the oilers telling him (p… …) You are not wanted, what is?

Rattle 247:31
Seriously!

Jordan

So…LTs on vacation and no new post this morning?

What a strange way to spend a holiday Monday morning without a new take on our Oilers.

Walter Gretzkys Neighbour

Georgexs:
Quick recap:

1. McLellan was awful. From the beginning to the end. He could’ve just played JP if the decision had been made to play JP in year one. Instead, according to Leavins’ sources, he “invested hours upon hours trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton”. Does that sound right or smart? How do you think those hours played out? Walking down Whyte Ave? Mini-golf at WEM? Sharing a banana split at Marble Slab? To be fair, McLellan more or less announced he was an un-locking type of HC when he arrived; he was here to un-lock the Oilers, to un-lock Hall, to un-lock Eberle, to un-lock Schultz, to un-lock the winners locked inside those losers. You see how that type of framing may not be the best for players, right? People can spend a lot of time in a job and develop absolutely no insight into the nature of that job.

(Who the heck are Leavins’ “multiple sources close to the team” now that the regime has changed? Has the regime not changed? Or does Holland need to win the hearts and minds of the locals too?)

2. Hitchcock was busy forming a deep, comfy groove in his couch when he got the bat signal from PC. “Honey.. ” “What?” “Where is my Super Suit?” “What?” “Where.Is.My.Super.Suit?” Why, Hitch? Why? You were good. You were chillin’. You had the Swiss leadership summits. And bocce. There was absolutely nothing at stake, except maybe steak. Hitch knew how to fix things too, just like McLellan. A few losses down the road… and he’s turned on his team, just like McLellan. Plays CMD and Drai, what was it, 25 minutes a night, more than McLellan, actually. New HC really learned a lot from those Swiss leadership summits. Thank God Holland said, yeah Hitch, not gonna happen.

3. Both of these fine individuals formed excellent relationships with local media. With their players? errmm… With respect to their relationship with JP and all the effort they put into “fixing” him… Come on man. If you don’t think a teenager (20 year old) is ready to play at the NHL level, don’t play him at the NHL level. If you think he is ready to play at the NHL level, play him at the NHL level… consistently. Our two respected old hands could’ve made one choice or the other. Either choice would have helped the player find a path to success in the organization. Instead they went with play him, get mad at him, don’t play him, play him somewhere else, get mad at him, don’t play him… will you hurry up and get fixed already?!

JP was bungled. It’s done.

A lot of optimism for Tippett. He doesn’t talk like these two guys. So, hopefully, he doesn’t think like these two guys. He’s a real NHL player from the old days, well liked, apparently, by his former players. Also, he has fewer laurels to rest on, having experienced failure in his last few seasons as HC. And then, getting a second chance after getting passed over for HC opportunities the last two seasons… that’ll sharpen your wits and your senses.

I love all of this! Perfect.

ArmchairGM

Re: P/60, I note that Currie spent a grand total of 4 minutes with McDavid last year and the duo combined for 2 goals in that span. It certainly hiked his P/60, although I was impressed with his scoring rates outside of his McDavid time too. I think he deserves to be in the conversation for 3rd line next season too – along with about 15 other guys.

Richard Roma

Reja:
For some reason I thought of another 4th overall pic in years past and needed to compare it to Jesse.
Tale of the tape.
Jason Bonsignore 4th overall 1994 6 foot 4 221 79 games 3 goals 13 assists
Jesse Puljujarvi.4th overall 2016 6 foot 4 223 139 games 17 goals 20 assists.

Griffin Reinhart 4rth overall 2012. 6 foot 4 212 37 games 0 goals 2 assists

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

Scungilli Slushy: Likely what is happening when Holland works the phones. Lowball offers. Might just be a feeling out process, they all try a 4th round pick or bland player or prospect, then maybe somebody steps up who has some real interest.

Wonder what Columbus would offer. Maybe a bag of pucks without the bag or the pucks. Would love to be in Ken’s office when that call is made.

who

Andy Dufresne: Lets play Point / Counter Point. Devils Advocate.

A” friend of mine” recently said, lets put this all together.

Right from the outset, Jarmo Kekäläinen (many yrs experience and many contacts in Finland) knew “something” about JP. Passed on him.

JP got 40 NHL games in Draft +1 because??? Agent and Player.(Fuckin Dumb)

JP couldnt play a system (to a degree that made him start to look uncoachable ala Yak)

Our teams elite players and elite leaders (some exceptionally good players and exceptionally good people, of charachter) , in whose best interest it is, to do everything in their power to make this kid successful, not only were unable to do so, but basically at some point (surely out of utter frustration), refused to play with him.

Then the Agent and Player again show thier general “lack of intellegnce” in a situtation where they have absolutely ZERO leverage, and they go public with demands for a trade. REALLY Dumb!

Even when they are thrown a mulligan/do-over, New Coach, New GM, and the boogey man (Lucic) gone, they STILL fuck it up! And continue to mouth off publically,

My friend said, he was JP supporter/booster. He held out hope that things would turn around. NOW, he says Fuck JP. I wouldnt have him back at league minumum on a 3 year deal.

My friend says, those who blame the Oilers for this crap, in hindsight and given the evidence, need to reassess. And if they still feel this is an Oilers Mgt probelm, they need to give thier head a shake. In My Friends Opinion.

LT is a nice guy. He hopes for the best for JP. My Friend is not that nice. He says, the multi millionaire JP completely screwed us and all he cares is that we extract any value we can for this loser.

I’m not sure I agree with everything my friend says , but I suspect / fear that he may be right.

Good post and your friend makes a lot of good points. But I think his first point is bullshit.
I don’t buy this whole narrative that the Finnish GM “knew something” about JP. He wanted a potential 1st line center and picked the best one available. End of story. Did he “know something” about Tkachuk too?
I also think Holland should stick to his guns. If he can’t turn JP into a potential impact player he should just let him sweat. You can find bottom six forwards and bottom pairing dmen anywhere. There is very little risk in hanging on to JP at this point.

Scungilli Slushy

Georgexs:
Quick recap:

1. McLellan was awful. From the beginning to the end. He could’ve just played JP if the decision had been made to play JP in year one. Instead, according to Leavins’ sources, he “invested hours upon hours trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton”. Does that sound right or smart? How do you think those hours played out? Walking down Whyte Ave? Mini-golf at WEM? Sharing a banana split at Marble Slab? To be fair, McLellan more or less announced he was an un-locking type of HC when he arrived; he was here to un-lock the Oilers, to un-lock Hall, to un-lock Eberle, to un-lock Schultz, to un-lock the winners locked inside those losers. You see how that type of framing may not be the best for players, right? People can spend a lot of time in a job and develop absolutely no insight into the nature of that job.

(Who the heck are Leavins’ “multiple sources close to the team” now that the regime has changed? Has the regime not changed? Or does Holland need to win the hearts and minds of the locals too?)

2. Hitchcock was busy forming a deep, comfy groove in his couch when he got the bat signal from PC. “Honey.. ” “What?” “Where is my Super Suit?” “What?” “Where.Is.My.Super.Suit?” Why, Hitch? Why? You were good. You were chillin’. You had the Swiss leadership summits. And bocce. There was absolutely nothing at stake, except maybe steak. Hitch knew how to fix things too, just like McLellan. A few losses down the road… and he’s turned on his team, just like McLellan. Plays CMD and Drai, what was it, 25 minutes a night, more than McLellan, actually. New HC really learned a lot from those Swiss leadership summits. Thank God Holland said, yeah Hitch, not gonna happen.

3. Both of these fine individuals formed excellent relationships with local media. With their players? errmm… With respect to their relationship with JP and all the effort they put into “fixing” him… Come on man. If you don’t think a teenager (20 year old) is ready to play at the NHL level, don’t play him at the NHL level. If you think he is ready to play at the NHL level, play him at the NHL level… consistently. Our two respected old hands could’ve made one choice or the other. Either choice would have helped the player find a path to success in the organization. Instead they went with play him, get mad at him, don’t play him, play him somewhere else, get mad at him, don’t play him… will you hurry up and get fixed already?!

JP was bungled. It’s done.

A lot of optimism for Tippett. He doesn’t talk like these two guys. So, hopefully, he doesn’t think like these two guys. He’s a real NHL player from the old days, well liked, apparently, by his former players. Also, he has fewer laurels to rest on, having experienced failure in his last few seasons as HC. And then, getting a second chance after getting passed over for HC opportunities the last two seasons… that’ll sharpen your wits and your senses.

Nice comments G

I have never been a fan of the term unlocked. It assumes there is something locked.

I like how Tippet talks bout putting players in a spot to succeed. I think that is closer to the truth of things. Most players at the NHL level are limited players in some or most ways.

Scungilli Slushy

SkatinginSand:
Scungilli Slushy,
With Jesse making it very clear that a trade is exactly what he wants (and expects) would going to another team just lead to a bigger sense of entitlement? It obviously is already a problem and if I was a GM, that fear would mean that I would not give up anything for him.

Likely what is happening when Holland works the phones. Lowball offers. Might just be a feeling out process, they all try a 4th round pick or bland player or prospect, then maybe somebody steps up who has some real interest.

Georgexs

Quick recap:

1. McLellan was awful. From the beginning to the end. He could’ve just played JP if the decision had been made to play JP in year one. Instead, according to Leavins’ sources, he “invested hours upon hours trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton”. Does that sound right or smart? How do you think those hours played out? Walking down Whyte Ave? Mini-golf at WEM? Sharing a banana split at Marble Slab? To be fair, McLellan more or less announced he was an un-locking type of HC when he arrived; he was here to un-lock the Oilers, to un-lock Hall, to un-lock Eberle, to un-lock Schultz, to un-lock the winners locked inside those losers. You see how that type of framing may not be the best for players, right? People can spend a lot of time in a job and develop absolutely no insight into the nature of that job.

(Who the heck are Leavins’ “multiple sources close to the team” now that the regime has changed? Has the regime not changed? Or does Holland need to win the hearts and minds of the locals too?)

2. Hitchcock was busy forming a deep, comfy groove in his couch when he got the bat signal from PC. “Honey.. ” “What?” “Where is my Super Suit?” “What?” “Where.Is.My.Super.Suit?” Why, Hitch? Why? You were good. You were chillin’. You had the Swiss leadership summits. And bocce. There was absolutely nothing at stake, except maybe steak. Hitch knew how to fix things too, just like McLellan. A few losses down the road… and he’s turned on his team, just like McLellan. Plays CMD and Drai, what was it, 25 minutes a night, more than McLellan, actually. New HC really learned a lot from those Swiss leadership summits. Thank God Holland said, yeah Hitch, not gonna happen.

3. Both of these fine individuals formed excellent relationships with local media. With their players? errmm… With respect to their relationship with JP and all the effort they put into “fixing” him… Come on man. If you don’t think a teenager (20 year old) is ready to play at the NHL level, don’t play him at the NHL level. If you think he is ready to play at the NHL level, play him at the NHL level… consistently. Our two respected old hands could’ve made one choice or the other. Either choice would have helped the player find a path to success in the organization. Instead they went with play him, get mad at him, don’t play him, play him somewhere else, get mad at him, don’t play him… will you hurry up and get fixed already?!

JP was bungled. It’s done.

A lot of optimism for Tippett. He doesn’t talk like these two guys. So, hopefully, he doesn’t think like these two guys. He’s a real NHL player from the old days, well liked, apparently, by his former players. Also, he has fewer laurels to rest on, having experienced failure in his last few seasons as HC. And then, getting a second chance after getting passed over for HC opportunities the last two seasons… that’ll sharpen your wits and your senses.

Professor Q

godot10:
It makes no sense for Puljujarvi to play in Europe when he is waiver eligible, so I don’t believe it will happen.

Do you mean that it wouldn’t make sense if he *wasn’t* waiver eligible and could be assigned to the AHL without being claimed?

Because Holland said he’s going to be trying his best in the next few weeks to try to get a deal. If he can’t do anything by training camp then Europe is Jesse’s best option.

He’s not going to give him to another team for free.

SkatinginSand

Scungilli Slushy,
With Jesse making it very clear that a trade is exactly what he wants (and expects) would going to another team just lead to a bigger sense of entitlement? It obviously is already a problem and if I was a GM, that fear would mean that I would not give up anything for him.

Scungilli Slushy

duct tape and foil: I don’t think they bothered getting into Jessie’s head much because they didn’t think they had any chance at drafting him. But that’s why you do the work. The unexpected happens and you are prepared. Not really the Oiler’s trademark though until the new boss arrived.

Thankfully we’ve been able to learn that Holland wants the book on every player in a significant league in the world per his new head scout.

I won’t go into my opinions about Chiarelli but suffice to say I don’t have the feels he was working very effectively or hard as an Oiler employee. Backed up for me by the fact there are insinuations in the MSM he wasn’t talking to people internally. Signs of things not being good IMO.

I of course have no idea of the real situation, but we all form opinions based on our own experiences and available info.

Scungilli Slushy

pts2pndr: Bigger players rarely look fast. He gets to where he needs to be. His skating has never been mentioned as a problem. Watching him in the memorial cup he was impressive against his peers.

In the touney snippets I’ve seen he will go the the net hard with dangles. The Oilers have lacked shooters, but also players that drive the net trying to beat people one on one, for ages.

In football terms, it’s like having a running game and passing attack, having a rounded offense keeps the D from being able to key on strategies that can shit down an anemic offensive attack.

Danger, every rush, is the goal. By passing, skating, dangling, board play or shooting. Whatever the players can do and what the opponent D system leaves available. There’s always something left on the table.

Edit: ‘shut’ not ‘shit’ dpwn.

‘down’ uggh

duct tape and foil

Scungilli Slushy: I feel a lack of due diligence by the org is at the heart of both fails. Should have traded down if they had bothered to know the player.

I don’t think they bothered getting into Jessie’s head much because they didn’t think they had any chance at drafting him. But that’s why you do the work. The unexpected happens and you are prepared. Not really the Oiler’s trademark though until the new boss arrived.

Scungilli Slushy

godot10: My opinion:

It sounds as if #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach has never looked at a minute of tape of Puljujarvi’s play in Europe.He looked at a big raw uncut diamond, and tried making a sphere out of it.Puljujarvi was primarily a puck transporter, used to playing with the puck on his stick.McLellan took away the puck.Eff how you play the game.Don’t try to evolve it.Do what I tell you to do.Skate up and down your wing.Skate to the net.

You don’t sit an 18-year old in the pressbox for 40 games.

My opinion
JP plays like a centre, and perhaps as we learn more, that he’s been played at wing has to do with his attitude.

I get in championships having Laine and him on the wings with the smaller centre made sense.

In league play it seems Euros are really conservative, favouring older players, and really that is fair and right unless you’re talking about a Pettersen type talent.

The hardest style of management is taming wild broncos and getting the best of them.

It’s why Sather has my enduring admiration – the Glory team was only what it became because he could tame them enough and get the best. Different times for sure, but the same can happen now.

I think it’s done with JP and the Oilers, there is no clean way back for him at this point.

As with many young players and people in general, it’s the shock of life, as in a trade in NHL terms, that wakes them up. If that doesn’t they don’t have it IMO.

Loving the skill set of the lad, I now feel he doesn’t have it. Too many excuses rolling around in his mind, if he’s still not picking up what’s being put down. He is not valued highly anymore or the new GM would have acted, especially now that Lucic was dealt.

I don’t get the Lucic / JP rumours some are commenting about, I must have missed that JP doesn’t like ML. I mean that if the ML contract can move and was dealt, JP would be gone too if anything decent was offered.

JP will be a great Euro league player as long as his hips hold out. Better than the other draft pick burnt on Yak. I feel a lack of due diligence by the org is at the heart of both fails. Should have traded down if they had bothered to know the player.

Consensus both, but that doesn’t mean you have to draft them if you know they’re odd donkeys. Drop down and take what you can get, get a more suitable player to your team culture instead of burning a pick just because.

With those big attitudes and egos, neither kid had a chance on a team like the Oilers were. I do feel the Oilers are different now with Holland.

duct tape and foil

Jesse was a complete consensus #3 and was even considered by some to be potentially better than Laine.

But Kekäläinen passed hard and that was a massive massive red flag given his record, amount of time he had to consider the pick, and passport.

Now you would probably like a day (or even a couple hours) to consider the implications of that move, but the Oilers were on the clock with only minutes to think about it. So I don’t think you can judge them harshly for the pick. In hindsight you wish someone else was the Columbus GM and just took the kid ahead of us.

pts2pndr

digger50:
Any thoughts on the junior showcase games?

I seen Lavoie for only two shifts, he looked big but not fast, not fast at all.

Thoughts?

Bigger players rarely look fast. He gets to where he needs to be. His skating has never been mentioned as a problem. Watching him in the memorial cup he was impressive against his peers.

Genjutsu

Munny:
Genjutsu,

I am always awedly jealous at NID”s (s)wordsmanship.

Agreed, yet at the the same time I feel I am a richer and better person every time I read their work. It’s not an easy read but always a rewarding one.

OriginalPouzar

godot:
It makes no sense for Puljujarvi to play in Europe when he is waiver eligible, so I don’t believe it will happen.

It may be his only option if he wants to play and refuses to play for the Oilers.

OriginalPouzar

Sure, fair enough but you are moving the goalposts aren’t you? Previously you had opined that the coach wasn’t interested in coaching the player and didn’t coach him. Now, the position has changed to him coaching him but improperly, no?

I think the 40 games is a bit of an exaggeration, isn’t it? He played 28 and, if I remember correctly, he was sent down not long after he hit the 40 game on the roster threshold?

I have a feeling so many healthy scratch games was a function of the coach thinking he wasn’t helping the team win but the GM not re-assigning the player due to a “promise” to the agent to burn that year towards UFA and to keep him on the roster for 40.

I never used to believe that such a promise would be made but I’ve switched on this player/situation – likely was “required” to get him to sign and/or come over to North America – another bad decision by the GM.

godot10

It makes no sense for Puljujarvi to play in Europe when he is waiver eligible, so I don’t believe it will happen.

godot10

OriginalPouzar:
I’m sure most/many of us have read what Leavins wrote about Jesse and coaching over the years.Of course, Leavins is just writing what he’s been told by those he trusts and I will take it at face value (although wonder why “all of a sudden” we hear stuff like this).

I wonder what Godot thinks about McLellan’s work with Jesse given his posts about refusing to coach? Not calling you out Godot, not at all, genuinely curious.

————————————-

“It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.”

My opinion:

It sounds as if #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach has never looked at a minute of tape of Puljujarvi’s play in Europe. He looked at a big raw uncut diamond, and tried making a sphere out of it. Puljujarvi was primarily a puck transporter, used to playing with the puck on his stick. McLellan took away the puck. Eff how you play the game. Don’t try to evolve it. Do what I tell you to do. Skate up and down your wing. Skate to the net.

You don’t sit an 18-year old in the pressbox for 40 games.

Rube Foster

WGN,

Nice post. We’re on the same page. If a reconciliation is not in the cards then Europe is the best spot for Jesse.

Btw Reja, if you could trade Jesse Puljujarvi and change for a Roman Hamerlik comparable, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Sadly, Glen Sather doesn’t work here any more.

Reja

For some reason I thought of another 4th overall pic in years past and needed to compare it to Jesse.
Tale of the tape.
Jason Bonsignore 4th overall 1994 6 foot 4 221 79 games 3 goals 13 assists
Jesse Puljujarvi. 4th overall 2016 6 foot 4 223 139 games 17 goals 20 assists.

Reja

OriginalPouzar: Hitchcock’s “I can fix Jesse” BS has really but a crimp in the situation.

Jesse was finally in the proper league, the AHL, and having a very very strong start there (through only 4 games). Hitch then came in with “I can fix” Jesse and he was called up which served to:

– further yo-yo the player
– take away the AHL development that he was finally going to get
– take away his waiver exemption

Hip issue aside, I think things, at least his value, would be much different if he got the rest of the AHL season plus the playoff run and was still able to be assigned w ithout waivers.

Hitch “fixed” Drai but further “broke” Jesse.

Hitch can be a class A prick if he wants to be but he’s always been fair about it. Maybe hitch scared the bejesus out of Jesse.

duct tape and foil

OriginalPouzar: Bear, yes, Lagesson, no.

Agree on keeping Lagesson and Jones out of the 3

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

Walter Gretzkys Neighbour,

That pretty much sums it all up. Great post. No apologies necessary. Now I can go see if I can find Andy and Red and do me some fishin in those calm ocean waters under that beautiful blue sky.

OriginalPouzar

CallighenMan: They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal.I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights.I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

Yup, they’ve retained Slepy’s rights as well – no reason not to.

Mabye they can come back from Europe together?

OriginalPouzar

I apologize.

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

CallighenMan: They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal.I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights.I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

Works for me. Let’s hope it works for Ken too. I’m just not interested in getting a 4th or 5th rounder only to see Jesse finally “get it” with another NHL club. Jesse can just cool his heels in Europe for a while, maybe a long while.

JimmyV1965

Rube Foster: The fact that a player with 17 career goals still remains one of the Oiler’s best options to fill a top-six role, speaks more to the Oiler’s lack of depth on the Wing than it does your passion to penalize a 21 year old kid for speaking intemperately. Sad, but true – the Oiler’s winger depth, that is.

As I have said before, you are entitled to your opinions regarding this player, but I believe your opinions are coloured by your emotions, which again is just fine… for fan.

Puljujarvi didn’t kick a puppy or curse out Jarri Kurri’s Mother.He merely repeated his position on playing for the Oilers this season.I understand that Jesse’s comments hurt yours and some other’s feelings who frequent this site.As long-suffering Oiler’s fans, we are all entitled to our feelings.

I will also repeat my hope that Oiler’s Management will NOT permit hurt feelings to dictate how they work towards a resolution with Puljujarvi that sees the Oilers maximize his value as an asset.

Holland is not Steve Tambellini. I have full confidence that JP will be treated like any other asset. This asset, however, has very little value and it’s diminishing each time JP or the agent give an interview.

Walter Gretzkys Neighbour

I’ve been struggling with the back and forth regarding the Jesse Puljujarvi situation. So he is 21 and we all agree (perhaps having lived it) that at that age ill advised actions and statements are shall we say “not uncommon”. So I’m not trying to vilify this young man, nor am I interested in putting the Souray Treatment to him or being vindictive.

But, I’m willing to bet you all see the “but” coming here. The player has a tool set that ought to mesh well with what the Oilers need and the roster opportunity (play with only THE best player on the planet and his recently having gone nova linemate), yet here we are.

Development issues aside and I’m well aware this alone could spark an entire outburst all on its own. What has happened with JP thus far has happened and there is absolutely no way of knowing whether it was a terrible thing, a neutral thing or a positive thing. Opinions are all we each have. The reality is we don’t and can’t know which of these is true.

The player and his agent have undeniably caused loss of value by their inopportune statements and demands. First demanding a trade then more recently unequivocally stating as JP has done, that he won’t play for Edmonton.

I don’t agree that as fans we are “running a 21 year old player out of town”. Are we annoyed as fans – yes. Is Holland annoyed – probably, but at least there is a reasonable expectation that Holland will manage the problem in a way that best benefits the Oilers. (If I was a person who prayed – and I m not, I would pray here that gone are the days of making decisions not based on winning.)

I don’t believe that the previous comments that the Oilers “maybe drafted the village idiot” were meant as a direct literal attack on the player personally but more of a commentary that perhaps the rationale for selecting JP was if not flawed, at least misinformed. Subsequent conflagration regarding calling people names I honestly don’t really think addresses the issue with this player.

JP may or may not actually be an NHL success, here (unlikely) or anywhere (reasonable possibility). He may not succeed anywhere in hockey. At this point we just don’t know. What we do know is that there’s no shortage of errors and finger pointing and supposition and rumor regarding this situation. Is it the case that the premier elite players on the team have actually stated they won’t play with him? Was there some sort of Lucic voodoo? Was it McLellan, Chiarelli? Others? Was it language, cooking, weather, loneliness?

Holland has been in this situation before. He’s not “trading an asset at the lowest possible level”. He’s said, he’s tried and can’t find a deal that makes sense for he Oilers and he’s suggested JP and his agent explore things on their own and in Europe. I fail to see what else Holland could possibly do in this situation. So from that perspective, blaming “because Oilers” is just another opinion. And one that doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

So here we are. The player and his agent have handcuffed the organization – there is no better way to sewer your trade value than making it clear to everyone who is awake (is Chiarelli napping in Minnesota yet??) that you won’t play for the team that owns you.

For my money Holland is making the right moves here. If this young man goes back to Europe there will be at least three possible outcomes. First, he regains his confidence and excels -thereby increasing his trade value should he then actually want to return to the NHL. Second he regains his confidence and excels and learns an important lesson about what it means to be a team player and decides the chance to play with McDavid & Draisatl is best for his personal success and he returns to the Oilers after a year in Europe. Third, he demonstrates an inability to learn a system, gel as a team player, do what is asked of him to succeed and fails to live up to his draft expectations.

Scenario one – Holland makes a trade that returns a value player or package. Scenario two, the Oilers regain an asset that had enough value to garner a 4 overall selection. Scenario three, the 4 overall selection fails to live up to expectations and hopes and the team moves on. Plenty of examples of this (ouch – “you know who” was another 4 overall wasn’t he? The guy who’s name rhymes with Riffin Grineheart”.)

For 66.67% of these options, the Oilers come out ahead. I’m on Team Holland here.

I apologize for the length of this. I don’t post that much and almost never anything this long, but this issue is a contentious one. I just don’t feel like absolving the player or his agent in how dismal the situation is right now, no matter how young, naive and inexperienced he is. I mean isn’t that why players get agents and a team to handle them?

Anyway, that’s just my (goes back over text, counts it up, adds inflation and GST) 78 cents…

Edit: I chose not to include the hip issue – I’m sure it contributes, I just think there are way more problems than an injury issue.

Gerta Rauss

CallighenMan: They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal.I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights.I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

I can’t argue with any of that-the other GMs aren’t doing the Oilers any favours

I too like Holland’s approach thus far and hope the kid changes his mind and comes to camp

I don’t think that’s going to happen, but here’s hoping

CallighenMan

Gerta Rauss: Well I don’t agree with that

The kid has some value – maybe not much- but the verbal this summer suggests several teams have kicked the tires

They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal. I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights. I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

OriginalPouzar

Recall, in that first game after Hitch wanted Jesse back, he started as 1RW – he played a grand total of 3:25 seconds as 1RW before he was removed – then he played a grand total of 2:48 the rest of the game.

I think that went on for a couple of games before he was then started down the lineup.

Ughhh – Hitch effed this up – he was in the AHL with 2/3 of the Condors’ season to go. It was

OriginalPouzar

I’m sure most/many of us have read what Leavins wrote about Jesse and coaching over the years. Of course, Leavins is just writing what he’s been told by those he trusts and I will take it at face value (although wonder why “all of a sudden” we hear stuff like this).

I wonder what Godot thinks about McLellan’s work with Jesse given his posts about refusing to coach? Not calling you out Godot, not at all, genuinely curious.

————————————-

“It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.”

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

Richard Roma: The 24 hr rule pertains to quoting articles not linking to them.

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/2019/08/31-teams-in-31-days-edmonton-oilers.html

Thanks, Richard.

Richard Roma

OriginalPouzar: As I said, I’ll abide by our host’s 24 hour rule.

Search Brock Otten Blogspot.

The 24 hr rule pertains to quoting articles not linking to them.

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/2019/08/31-teams-in-31-days-edmonton-oilers.html

OriginalPouzar

DecidedlySkepticalFan: Link?

As I said, I’ll abide by our host’s 24 hour rule.

Search Brock Otten Blogspot.

OriginalPouzar

Reja: Pete thought Jesse was NHL readyand dare I say made Hall a little moretradeable. Todd tried Hitch tried if you can step back and look at the situation subjectively and read between the lines most will come to the conclusion that Holland has more important matters to deal withlike getting us in the playoffs and beyond.

Hitchcock’s “I can fix Jesse” BS has really but a crimp in the situation.

Jesse was finally in the proper league, the AHL, and having a very very strong start there (through only 4 games). Hitch then came in with “I can fix” Jesse and he was called up which served to:

– further yo-yo the player
– take away the AHL development that he was finally going to get
– take away his waiver exemption

Hip issue aside, I think things, at least his value, would be much different if he got the rest of the AHL season plus the playoff run and was still able to be assigned without waivers.

Hitch “fixed” Drai but further “broke” Jesse.

Harpers Hair

GMB3: I had no issues on my iPhone 7. I have an XR now, and the issue first popped up after clearing my browser history ().

It just started happening a few days ago. If I leave the current post to the main page on the blog and click the post again, I’m still logged in. Strange

Try Chrome for iOS…never happens to me.

Walter Gretzkys Neighbour

Gerta Rauss: Why

Then he’s just another failed draft pick – just like 21 year olds who say and do questionable things, he’s not the first and won’t be the last and there will also be many more failed draft picks, for every team.

If he blows in Europe, then the lack of a 3-4 year contract will turn out to be a positive and we can all move on from this pick.

I sympathize with OP and others that he appears to have a lot of tools that would have worked out for the Oilers but I think it’s pretty clear he has no intention of playing in Edmonton ever. The jury is out (another nod to OP) as to whether he actually turns out to be a valuable player wherever he ends up.

No one can say for sure, only time will tell. But I do like Holland’s approach.

Rube Foster

Andy Dufresne: I agree with you on this. My friend? Not so much.

My experience in business taught me that the ability to manage ones emotions is critical to success.

More specifically, the ability to manage your emotions and the ability to subvert your ego.

Andy,

Thank you for articulating my point regarding my opinion on how best to manage the Puljujarvi situation.

As Oilers fans it is well within ones purview to opt to run a 21 year old kid out of town for acting like… an immature 21 year old kid. To Reja and others I say fill your boots… just don’t ask me to drink your Kool-aid. And, should the kid re-sign and play for the Oilers, please don’t be vindictive pricks.

I sincerely hope that Oilers management have moved on from the Souray School of Dispute Resolution and are committed to doing what is best for the team in managing the assets that is Jesse Puljujarvi. I will stand by my opinion that trading Puljujarvi while his value is at its lowest point is unwise. It’s simply not what well managed teams do – see Drouin, Jonathan.

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

OriginalPouzar:
Nice write up by Otten today on the graduating OHL prospects.24 hour rule so I won’t post.

I do think he does a bit of a disservice to Maksimov’s overall game as he really took on a 2-way role after the trade deadline and was a plus PK guy.He’s more than just a shooter.

Link?

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

OriginalPouzar:
Nice write up by Otten today on the graduating OHL prospects.24 hour rule so I won’t post.

I do think he does a bit of a disservice to Maksimov’s overall game as he really took on a 2-way role after the trade deadline and was a plus PK guy.He’s more than just a shooter.

At a minimum he’s a shooter who plays with an edge. Very pronounced mean streak. I’ll take that, thank you.

OriginalPouzar

Nice write up by Otten today on the graduating OHL prospects. 24 hour rule so I won’t post.

I do think he does a bit of a disservice to Maksimov’s overall game as he really took on a 2-way role after the trade deadline and was a plus PK guy. He’s more than just a shooter.

Decidedly Skeptical Fan

Reja: Pete thought Jesse was NHL readyand dare I say made Hall a little moretradeable. Todd tried Hitch tried if you can step back and look at the situation subjectively and read between the lines most will come to the conclusion that Holland has more important matters to deal withlike getting us in the playoffs and beyond.

Yup. Later, Jesse. Feel free to let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. XOXO.