Sunday Morning Coming Down

As a coach, Craig MacTavish could find offense from young forwards. It wasn’t always the first-round picks, in fact early picks seemed to have a more difficult path than the workers. It might have had something to do with MacT’s own hockey experience, although that’s a guess and the main point is he found players that could help him from the farm system.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of the group, here’s an incredible Offer!

  • New Lowetide: Ken Holland’s roster construction options for the Oilers over the next seven months.
  • New Lowetide: Kailer Yamamoto has the talent to win a job with the Oilers on merit, if he’s healthy.
  • Jonathan Willis: Jesse Puljujarvi still has upside and the Oilers’ patient approach is the right one
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Q&A: Dave Tippett on rounding out his coaching staff, fixing Oilers’ special teams and using Connor McDavid
  • Lowetide: Handicapping the Oilers’ young defencemen and their chances of replacing Andrej Sekera
  • Lowetide: Is Kirill Maksimov progressing as the Edmonton Oilers’ next great hope for a true homegrown sniper?
  • Jonathan Willis: Oilers ease pressure on crowded defensive pipeline by trading John Marino to the Penguins
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2021-22 Oilers might look like after their steady build toward contender status
  • Lowetide: Joel Persson is ideally situated to win an opening night roster spot with the Oilers
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: What the 2019-20 Oilers might look like without trade missteps.
  • Lowetide: Finding the best candidates for the final two spots on the Oilers skill lines in 2019-20.
  • Jonathan Willis: Projecting the Oilers’ opening night lineup, line combinations and more.
  • Lowetide: Does the James Neal acquisition impact Oilers’ prospects in 2019-20?
  • Lowetide: Oilers’ acquisition of James Neal could add badly needed scoring to the top two lines.
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Ken Holland puts his stamp on the Oilers with first big move in Lucic-Neal trade
  • Jonathan Willis: Ken Holland ends an ugly situation for the Oilers by trading Milan Lucic for James Neal
  • Daniel Nugent-Bowman: Potential free-agent options for the Oilers in 2020
  • Jonathan Willis: Which Oilers defencemen can make an outlet pass?
  • Lowetide: Looking ahead to Oilers training camp: 35 players for 23 jobs
  • Jonathan Willis: Josh Archibald won’t fix the Oilers’ biggest problems, but he’ll help with some key issues.
  • Lowetide: Will the 2019-20 Bakersfield Condors be the Oilers’ best minor-league team ever?
  • Lowetide: Oilers top 20 prospects summer 2019.

MACT’S ROOKIE FORWARDS (EV/60)

Mike Comrie 2000-01 (2.52)

Andrew Cogliano 2007-08 (2.37)

Ales Hemsky 2002-03 (2.26)

Shawn Horcoff 2000-01 (2.24)

Fernando Pisani 2002-03 (2.13)

Kyle Brodziak 2007-08 (2.08)

Sam Gagner 2007-08 (1.97)

Jason Chimera 2002-03 (1.90)

Jarrett Stoll 2003-04 (1.39)

Mike Comrie had a strong run after (finally) signing with the Oilers, and MacT used him in a feature spot. Andrew Cogliano got a similar push and made the most of it seven years later. Ales Hemsky was the most gifted offensive rookie during MacT’s time as coach, he delivered those numbers as a teenager. Sam Gagner also posted impressive rookie numbers under MacT as a rookie.

For me, one of the things MacTavish did to make his teams better was finding goals from secondary sources. Fernando Pisani, Jason Chimera and Kyle Brodziak had no draft pedigree, but they succeeded as rookies offensively. Even Jarrett Stoll, who struggled a little with scoring as a rookie, grew into a quality contributor.

DAVE TIPPETT’S ROOKIE ARIZONA FORWARDS (EV/60)

Anthony Duclair (2015-16) 2.05

Max Domi (2015-16) 2.03

Christian Dvorak (2016-17) 1.62

Brendan Perlini (2016-17) 1.29

Jordan Martinook (2015-16) 1.27

Paul Bissonnette (2009-10) 1.25

Tobias Rieder (2014-15) 0.94

Lawson Crouse (2016-17) 0.88

Tippett had good success, but the Coyotes didn’t run kids heavily until 2015-16. Biggest surprises for me: The offense he got from Bissonnette and Duclair, as rookies. Oilers rookie forwards who may thrive under Tippett? I think Tyler Benson, Cooper Marody, Kailer Yamamoto, Josh Currie and Joe Gambardella are in very good spots.

OILERS ROOKIE FORWARDS SINCE MACT (EV/60)

Connor McDavid 2015-16 (3.00)

Nail Yakupov 2012-13 (2.18)

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 2011-12 (1.93)

Taylor Hall 2010-11 (1..85)

Jordan Eberle 2010-11 (1.82)

Mark Arcobello 2013-14 (1.79)

Linus Omark 2010-11 (1.76)

Josh Currie 2018-19 (1.65)

Jesse Puljujarvi 2016-17 (1.44)

Magnus Paajarvi 2010-11 (1.39)

Leon Draisaitl 2014-15 (1.05)

Teemu Hartikainen 2010-11 (1.01)

Lee Fogolin was the heart and soul of the glory Oilers, I get emotional thinking about his handing off the “C” and the way he conducted himself on and off the ice. John Short was on the Lowdown a couple of years ago, and was comparing current Oilers to the Stanley team. He said the obvious (McDavid, Gretzky plus Messier, Draisaitl) but then placed Adam Larsson in the Fogolin slot. It’s an important position and one not easily filled. I hope Larsson enjoys a major rebound season.

ABOUT JESSE

Saved this for the end, because I don’t want to write it. Jesse Puljujarvi is 21 and seeking a new situation, hoping for a better place. I hope he finds it. I think he would have been better off with Chiarelli as the Oilers GM at this time, PC would have seen the situation from the beginning. Ken Holland sees an asset, has no plans to deal it for 10 cents on the dollar and we are here—and may well be in the same spot a year from now. This isn’t ‘eat your vegetables’ but the hammer is decidedly on one side.

If Ken Holland didn’t respond when the agent went public, and didn’t respond when the player did, then the die is cast. Jesse Puljujarvi will spend the winter in Europe, and he might spend two. Ken Holland has zero reason (barring a trade that is suitable) to end the standoff.

This isn’t going to end any time soon, but I do hope Jesse finds that better place someday.

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138 Responses to "Sunday Morning Coming Down"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    I see sparkling P/60 numbers, over 2.00, first line rates, for non-1st line players.

    Maybe I shouldn’t put so much in to P/60?

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    Joe G. doesn’t get mentioned alot, likely because of all the adds Holland made that will compete for bottom 6 spots, however, I think he spends quite a bit of time on the Oiler roster this season. He’s a great candiate for a 12th to 14th forward spot. He’s a bit older so there isn’t a huge concern if he isn’t playing nightly and he can be slotted in an trusted to work his ass off and be on the right side of the puck- he should also be able to add tenacity on the forecheck and he’s got the ability to finish.

  3. innercitysmytty says:

    Wonder if there should be a minimum minutes played cutoff for using P/60 or at least identify TOI for greater context. I think small sample size for some 3rd and 4th liners may have them looking more effective offensively than they are and/or there is likely greater variance year over year for these players.

  4. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    The past day or so I have been thinking about the Captain’s statement in January ~~”…those that do not believe in this team, need to leave…”. Strong and striking words.

    Given Lucic’s verbal the past few weeks, it doesn’t sound like he (“the saviour” – ha) believed in this team. He did not gel with the guys on or off the ice.
    Given JP’s verbal, he clearly does not want to be here.

    I look forward to the potential for more positive energy with the team this fall as they will be free of this baggage and drama from both players.

    Giddyup!

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Holland was asked about Jesse yesterday and said there was nothing new but he needs to work the phones hard over the next few weeks – if he can’t get anything done then it looks like Europe for the player.

    I do have a feeling he’ll consummate a trade closer to camp but I hope not – I can’t get on board trading the potential of this 21 years old for a 23 year old tweener.

  6. Ben says:

    The latest Leavins piece on JP feels like part insight, part water-carrying, but his conclusion about the player’s stubbornness *feels* right.

    I strongly suspect JP blossoms once he gets a similar second or third opinion. Really too bad it looks like it won’t be here.

  7. OriginalPouzar says:

    ptspndr: I keep hearing you say that Nurse will price himself out of what the Oilers can pay. You also say that the team can not promote an AHL player until he has proven himself in the NHL. Please tell me how in blazes you propose this is done with your hardline requirements. What you propose is not possible. You can not have it both ways. With your requirements no player would get promoted. You make broad based statements that are preposterous.

    1) I never said Nurse is going to price himself out of Edmonton. I do think he’ll be very expensive next year, in the $7M range, but I am counting on him being re-signed and an Oilers in October 2020.

    2) I’ve acknowledged there may be a time when a Nurse or Klef needs to go for money reasons but the time isn’t now and hopefully there will be some young d-men progression at the time when the money is needed

    3) I absolutely never said anything about not promoting an AHL d-man, in fact, I’m on record that Lagesson is NHL ready right now. At the same time, I don’t posit to play him in the top 4 even though I think he’ll be a legit 22 min 2LD for 10 years.

    4) The position I responded to was the suggestion of trading Nurse or Klefbom because someone like Samorukov has already proven to be NHL top 4 ready by his play in the AHL. That I disagree with. That play would earn him an NHL shot and, if he has success he can move up the NHL lineup and potentially push out an incumbent.

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    DecidedlySkepticalFan: You almost, very nearly, have the essence of it except that OP believes that preseason play means … NOTHING!!!! But don’t give up hope Juice, I have a feeling that you have cracked a tough nut or two if that ever becomes a concern.

    NHL preseason is quite important, it means alot.

    It does not mean much when evaluating NHL readiness of the higher skilled young prospects as they routinely show off all their talents and skills and produce in the exhibition season and then, when given NHL games, routinely show they aren’t ready.

  9. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I see sparkling P/60 numbers, over 2.00, first line rates, for non-1st line players.

    Maybe I shouldn’t put so much in to P/60?

    Why wouldn’t you?

  10. Reja says:

    Lee Fogolin tough as nails didn’t look to fight but when he did he would maul the opposing player. Lee quietly did his job was a proud Oiler through and through and was brutal to play against at times. I would definitely agree with the comparison with Larsson and I’m sure he’ll be the first to say last year was a one and done and he expects a bounce back year.

  11. Glovjuice says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    The past day or so I have been thinking about the Captain’s statement in January ~~”…those that do not believe in this team, need to leave…”. Strong and striking words.

    Given Lucic’s verbal the past few weeks, it doesn’t sound like he (“the saviour” – ha) believed in this team. He did not gel with the guys on or off the ice.
    Given JP’s verbal, he clearly does not want to be here.

    I look forward to the potential for more positive energy with the team this fall as they will be free of this baggage and drama from both players.

    Giddyup!

    Vis-a-vis Lucic, it demonstrates how ridiculous Stauffer’s comments were regarding the importance of Lucic at the head of the table.

  12. defmn says:

    Ben:
    The latest Leavins piece on JP feels like part insight, part water-carrying, but his conclusion about the player’s stubbornness *feels* right.

    I strongly suspect JP blossoms once he gets a similar second or third opinion. Really too bad it looks like it won’t be here.

    That is quite the story of how we got to where we are with Jesse. Also the first time I have heard that theory on Chiarelli’s demise within the dressing room.

    My guess is we are going to find out that Holland has a stubborn streak as well.

  13. OriginalPouzar says:

    GMB: Why wouldn’t you?

    Pardon?

  14. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: NHL preseason is quite important, it means alot.

    It does not mean much when evaluating NHL readiness of the higher skilled young prospects as they routinely show off all their talents and skills and produce in the exhibition season and then, when given NHL games, routinely show they aren’t ready.

    A few nuts were cracked way back but no longer.

  15. OriginalPouzar says:

    Ty Rattie, Ryan McLeod, Evan Bouchard, Jesse Pulujuarvi and Kailer Yamamoto were among the Oilers top producers during exhibition season last year.

  16. Reja says:

    Ben:
    The latest Leavins piece on JP feels like part insight, part water-carrying, but his conclusion about the player’s stubbornness *feels* right.

    I strongly suspect JP blossoms once he gets a similar second or third opinion. Really too bad it looks like it won’t be here.

    I can’t wait for the Kosh and Smith tandem. Smith will be a great mentor and Tippett won’t hang either one out to dry this is the most important position without saying for us If we’re to make the playoffs. I for one said this many months ago that Kosh game will benefit by not being overplayed, concentrating on his own game and not being burdened with Babysitting.

  17. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Pardon?

    Sorry; I phrased that poorly?

    Why would you put much stock in p/60 after reading this article? Genuinely curious

  18. blainer says:

    Jesse I believe will have a career in the NHL …IF… he stays to play in the KHL. While they are close to finalizing rosters over there I am quite sure a team would find room for him.

    Jesse needs to learn a lesson and it seems Holland will be his teacher. Jesse is not ready even now IMO to play on the NHL .. he needs to stay in europe and develop his game learn how to be a team player and at the same time become more mature.

    I also think if he had to have played with us for one more year he would have ended up where YAK was .. a third round pick for value.

    Staying overseas in the KHL hopefully could really spike his value this time next year.

    Would be very happy though if we could trade him with a prospect for a third line center.

  19. GMB3 says:

    Why wouldn’t you*

    for whatever reason when I try and edit my post it says the link is expired.

    Tech savvy members of the board, I recently bought a new phone, and whenever I make a post it logs me out after. It’s an iPhone and I’m using safari. Has anyone had any experience with this?

  20. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Glovjuice: Vis-a-vis Lucic, it demonstrates how ridiculous Stauffer’s comments were regarding the importance of Lucic at the head of the table.

    It was Spector who coined “head of the table” in regards to Lucic, not Stauffer

  21. Wonder Llama says:

    GMB3:
    Why wouldn’t you*

    for whatever reason when I try and edit my post it says the link is expired.

    Tech savvy members of the board, I recently bought a new phone, and whenever I make a post it logs me out after. It’s an iPhone and I’m using safari. Has anyone had any experience with this?

    Yes, I use safari with my Apple devices (Mac/Pad/Phone) and am logged out after each interaction. It’s been this way for about two or three months, I believe.

    It didn’t coincide with anything new I did – I assumed it was something at “the other end” that would eventually be sorted out.

    Llamas are know for their stoic, silent patience.

  22. Woogie63 says:

    Jesse’s peer group is signing $50M ish contracts.

    The fastest and maybe to only way to contracts of that size is through Ken Holland.

    If the agent can get the big money HIS payday is +$2.5M.
    Right now his payday closer to $200k.

    The Finnish or KHL will not generate the big money.

    I am still betting Jesse is an Oiler at the start of the year.
    $1.5Mx1 year.

  23. New Improved Darkness says:

    Woodguy v2.0: It was Spector who coined “head of the table” in regards to Lucic, not Stauffer

    Good catch. That’s about a 1000× upgrade in the coefficient of central casting. Spector is fine when he maintains his tight table-image, but he mainly does this to go all in with seven-deuce in some subsequent hand, thinking he’s extremely clever. His seven-deuce portfolio is a white mushroom nestled among other white mushrooms, yet as evident to the alert nose as a retsina nestled in its cardboard cloister among eleven pinot noirs.

    One of these things is not like the other, multisensory edition.

    ———

    I finally cracked post-structuralism while dredging a handful of zebra mussels surrounding a stainless-steel sink stem on the bathroom wall of all knowledge: when your project is to undermine traditional norms of meaning without visible recourse to the traditional norms of meaning, what you end up with is an inbred DeepDream echo-chamber—exquisitely kaleidoscopic, signifying nothing.

    I’ve linked this before, but for the benefit of those few who have not yet encountered this:

    Deep Dreaming Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: the Great San Francisco Acid Wave

  24. Rube Foster says:

    Woogie63:
    Jesse’s peer group is signing $50M ish contracts.

    The fastest and maybe to only way to contracts of that size is through Ken Holland.

    If the agent can get the big money HIS payday is +$2.5M.
    Right now his payday closer to $200k.

    The Finnish or KHL will not generate the big money.

    I am still betting Jesse is an Oiler at the start of the year.
    $1.5Mx1 year.

    This.

    Anthanasiou’s hold out went to the 11th hour, I believe he was actually over seas when Holland finanlly signed him to return to the Red Wings.

    Holland has the experience to pull off a Jesse reconciliation.

  25. Gerta Rauss says:

    GMB3:
    Why wouldn’t you*

    for whatever reason when I try and edit my post it says the link is expired.

    Tech savvy members of the board, I recently bought a new phone, and whenever I make a post it logs me out after. It’s an iPhone and I’m using safari. Has anyone had any experience with this?

    This site has a long history (not in a good way) with iPhone’s/Apple products and the Safari browser

    For shits and giggles maybe try downloading and installing the Puffin browser

    I’m an Android/Chrome guy myself, but several IOS users on this site have reported great success with the Puffin browser, and the price is right ie:free

    With that said, the site itself has had a tumultuous history with logins/staying logged in/being forced to login with ALL platforms, so in all likelihood the problems you’re experiencing are not related to your new phone, but rather the site itself

  26. tileguy says:

    I view on an Ipad through safari running ios 10.3.4 flawlessly.

  27. Gerta Rauss says:

    tileguy:
    I view on an Ipad through safari running ios 10.3.4 flawlessly.

    That’s good info

    GMB3,

    Wonder Llama,
    The 2 of you should check what version of Safari you’re running, perhaps an update of your current browser is all you need

  28. Bag of Pucks says:

    Woogie63:
    Jesse’s peer group is signing $50M ish contracts.

    The fastest and maybe to only way to contracts of that size is through Ken Holland.

    If the agent can get the big money HIS payday is +$2.5M.
    Right now his payday closer to $200k.

    The Finnish or KHL will not generate the big money.

    I am still betting Jesse is an Oiler at the start of the year.
    $1.5Mx1 year.

    The motives for Jesse & agent may be at odds now, hence JP’s loose lips. Yes, the agent wants to wet his beak and a new contract with the Oilers likely represents the best of a handful of less than lucrative offers. But Jesse has firmly moved on from this team in his mind now. His verbal indicates the aspirations of a young man child who wants to play anywhere else in the NHL regardless of how that impacts his personal bottom line. One wonders if he said things on the way out that he feels he can’t take back now?

    Was there a time when Yakupov started to sour on Larionov? If yes, I think we’re nearing that point with JP.

    It’s a sad situation. The young man has all the talent in the world but maturity or lack thereof is such a critical ingredient in attaining success. I know people in their 40s and 50s who still blame the world, circumstances, others, etc. for their personal failings. It takes a man to point the finger at himself and accept personal accountability for his situation rather than blaming others. Jesse has an opportunity here to learn one of the hardest and most beneficial lessons in life. I hope for his sake he takes advantage of that opportunity.

    Jesse, there is no “i” in team. As much as that sounds like a platitude, it’s true. Swallow your pride. Commit to the role the coach gives you. Listen. Work hard. Be patient. Be a good teammate. Do all those things and you will be amazed at the results,

  29. CallighenMan says:

    Gerta Rauss: This site has a long history (not in a good way) with iPhone’s/Apple products and the Safari browser

    For shits and giggles maybe try downloading and installing the Puffin browser

    I’m an Android/Chrome guy myself, but several IOS users on this site have reported great success with the Puffin browser, and the price is right ie:free

    With that said, the site itself has had a tumultuous history with logins/staying logged in/being forced to login with ALL platforms, so in all likelihood the problems you’re experiencing are not related to your new phone, but rather the site itself

    I have been through a couple of ipads (ipad3 and now 2nd gen ipad pro) as well as iPhones 5s through current/new XS and I haven’t seen any of the problems described … aside from getting logged out when I forget to use the Remember me box.
    Perhaps you have some different privacy setting?
    I do keep my iOS and app levels up to date so perhaps that is it (as per others)?

  30. geowal says:

    tileguy:
    I view on an Ipad through safari running ios 10.3.4 flawlessly.

    Yeah, my iphone8 with safari has no issues for the most part, I find the only issues are sometimes when you switch from data to wifi and back and forth, but can often stay logged in all day. It’s just one of those mysteries of the world.

  31. Bag of Pucks says:

    CallighenMan,

    Great username! 🤘

  32. CallighenMan says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    CallighenMan,

    Great username!

    Thanks, wanted to reflect my advancing age, history as an Oiler fan and good taste in players 😉

    … aside … went to a WHA game as a kid and saw him suffer an awful hit/fall … Coliseum absolutely silent for what seemed like forever … I think he swallowed his tongue or something but he ended up ok… this was before the eye injury

  33. Bag of Pucks says:

    CallighenMan:

    I also read it as a clever pun on The Culligan Man. Intentional?

  34. OriginalPouzar says:

    I don’t imagine Jesse Puljujarvi on the team had any negative impact on Koskinen.

    Actually, the fact that they were often/generally on the ice before or after practice shooting/stopping pucks would lead to the presumption that they helped each other.

  35. Gerta Rauss says:

    CallighenMan,

    Thanks for replying and providing feedback

    I’m on Win7/Chrome and Win10/Chrome at home, and Android/Chrome when I’m out and about

    My site experience is fine (other than the longstanding issues with the site)

    I’m just trying to assist other users that are experiencing problems and that Puffin browser has been the silver bullet for many users

  36. Genjutsu says:

    New Improved Darkness: Good catch. That’s about a 1000× upgrade in the coefficient of central casting. Spector is fine when he maintains his tight table-image, but he mainly does this to go all in with seven-deuce in some subsequent hand, thinking he’s extremely clever. His seven-deuce portfolio is a white mushroom nestled among other white mushrooms, yet as evident to the alert nose as a retsina nestled in its cardboard cloister among eleven pinot noirs.

    One of these things is not like the other, multisensory edition.

    ———

    I finally cracked post-structuralism while dredging a handful of zebra mussels surrounding a stainless-steel sink stem on the bathroom wall of all knowledge: when your project is to undermine traditional norms of meaning without visible recourse to the traditional norms of meaning, what you end up with is an inbred DeepDream echo-chamber—exquisitely kaleidoscopic, signifying nothing.

    I’ve linked this before, but for the benefit of those few who have not yet encountered this:

    Deep Dreaming Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: the Great San Francisco Acid Wave

    Amazing stuff as always. Never fails to amaze. Definitely must read everytime. Thank you.

  37. Victoria Oil says:

    I sincerely hope to see Nurse as an Oiler in 2020-21. That said, we may easily have 2 or more value contracts next year (and/or the following year) among Jones, Bouchard, Persson, Samorukov, Lagesson, Bear and Broberg. If we re-sign Nurse, it won’t be a value contract meaning that we may push a potential value contract off the roster. Given Nurse’s perceived value in the league, trading him may be our best option, but we likely won’t know until next summer.

  38. Reja says:

    Rube Foster: This.

    Anthanasiou’s hold out went to the 11th hour, I believe he was actually over seas when Holland finanlly signed him to return to the Red Wings.

    Holland has the experience to pull off a Jesse reconciliation.

    Jesse and his agent have stated he doesn’t or will not play in The City Of Edmonton. Jesse is not holding out as a bargaining chip for money or term this not your typical negotiating tactics. Holland will look for a trade as the rosters shake out if not it’s off to Europe for the fourth overall pick.

  39. Munny says:

    New Improved Darkness: I’ve linked this before, but for the benefit of those few who have not yet encountered this:
    Deep Dreaming Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: the Great San Francisco Acid Wave

    IMO, Gilliam’s best film. His other movies are good, don’t get me wrong, but this is the one that achieves greatness.

  40. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I see sparkling P/60 numbers, over 2.00, first line rates, for non-1st line players.

    Maybe I shouldn’t put so much in to P/60?

    I think P/60 is a hugely important stat. It adds a lot of information about a player’s performance. However, I think it is one of the most abused stats. Small samples are often projected as if they will continue when a player gets more ice time or they are moved up the lineup. P/60 is simply one little piece of information.

  41. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I don’t imagine Jesse Puljujarvi on the team had any negative impact on Koskinen.

    Actually, the fact that they were often/generally on the ice before or after practice shooting/stopping pucks would lead to the presumption that they helped each other.

    I see it differently and it won’t be long to see if kosh covers Kurri’s l mean his bet on the generous contract by Pete.

  42. Rube Foster says:

    Bag of Pucks: The motives for Jesse & agent may be at odds now, hence JP’s loose lips. Yes, the agent wants to wet his beak and a new contract with the Oilers likely represents the best of a handful of less than lucrative offers. But Jesse has firmly moved on from this team in his mind now. His verbal indicates the aspirations of a young man child who wants to play anywhere else in the NHL regardless of how that impacts his personal bottom line. One wonders if he said things on the way out that he feels he can’t take back now?

    Was there a time when Yakupov started to sour on Larionov? If yes, I think we’re nearing that point with JP.

    It’s a sad situation. The young man has all the talent in the world but maturity or lack thereof is such a critical ingredient in attaining success. I know people in their 40s and 50s who still blame the world, circumstances, others, etc. for their personal failings. It takes a man to point the finger at himself and accept personal accountability for his situation rather than blaming others. Jesse has an opportunity here to learn one of the hardest and most beneficial lessons in life. I hope for his sake he takes advantage of that opportunity.

    Jesse, there is no “i” in team. As much as that sounds like a platitude, it’s true. Swallow your pride. Commit to the role the coach gives you. Listen. Work hard. Be patient. Be a good teammate. Do all those things and you will be amazed at the results,

    BOP,

    Excellent post and perspective.

    I will add though, that universally as a 21 year old, the stance and position the young man has taken regarding his situation in life hardly makes him unique.

    Anyone who has spent a great deal of time with teens and those in their early 20’s knows that young folks can make rash and intemperate decisions, often to their own detriment. Thankfully, they can also be prone to reveresing those decisions and quickly moving on as if what once appeared all encompassing was insignificant.

    The vagaries of youth.

    I for one am going to afford Jesse Puljujarvi empathy and patience. My hope remains that he is in the Oilers top six come October.

  43. Munny says:

    Genjutsu,

    I am always awedly jealous at NID”s (s)wordsmanship.

  44. JimmyV1965 says:

    I’ll be thrilled if JP spends a year in Europe. It’s the best thing for the player and the team.

  45. Bag of Pucks says:

    Statistically speaking, Edmonton’s other pro team seems to have both a dominant offense and defense. Yet they find a way to lose another round in the Battle of Alberta because of penalties, inadequate special teams, and poor situational awareness. I remain convinced that Jason Maas is a talented offensive coordinator and QB whisperer who lacks the chops required to build a truly cohesive unit in all three phases of the game.

    The silver lining for Oiler fans is we spend so much time focused on defense and offense that we sometimes forget the massive gains that can be made from incremental improvement in special teams, face off possession and goaltending. TMac handled his goaltenders poorly imo and special teams were always inconsistent under his purview. I’m hopeful Tippet can find some wins through improvement in these areas.

  46. CallighenMan says:

    Bag of Pucks: I also read it as a clever pun on The Culligan Man. Intentional?

    Yes… I find many of the usernames here amusing, and this is my (lame) attempt at humour :-}

  47. Bag of Pucks says:

    Rube Foster: BOP,

    Excellent post and perspective.

    I will add though, that universally as a 21 year old, the stance and position the young man has taken regarding his situation in life hardly makes him unique.

    Anyone who has spent a great deal of time with teens and those in their early 20’s knows that young folks can make rash and intemperate decisions, often to their own detriment.Thankfully, they can also be prone to reveresing those decisions and quickly moving on as if what once appeared all encompassing was insignificant.

    The vagaries of youth.

    I for one am going to afford Jesse Puljujarvi empathy and patience. My hope remains that he is in the Oilers top six come October.

    I’d love to know what his parents are thinking/saying to him these days? Amazing how often maturity beyond one’s young years is correlated to smart parental mentorship.

  48. CallighenMan says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    CallighenMan,

    Thanks for replying and providing feedback

    I’m on Win7/Chrome and Win10/Chrome at home, and Android/Chrome when I’m out and about

    My site experience is fine (other than the longstanding issues with the site)

    I’m just trying to assist other users that are experiencing problems and that Puffin browser has been the silver bullet for many users

    Gotcha. Outside of mobile devices I basically use Windows 10 with Firefox exclusively. No issues at all there either. an IT guy, so I’m a bit anal about updating. I avoid IE/Edge unless absolutely necessary and Chrome as well for the most part (I am forced to use Chrome at work unfortunately because upper management assumes everyone needs browser support !)

  49. Rube Foster says:

    Reja: Jesse and his agent have stated he doesn’t or will not playin The City Of Edmonton. Jesse is not holding out as a bargaining chip for money or term this not your typical negotiating tactics. Holland will look for a trade as the rosters shake out if not it’s off to Europe for the fourth overall pick.

    Brother Reja,

    You see Les Affair Puljujarvi your way, and I clearly see it from a different side. That is Ok.

    The truth is neither of us have a crystal ball, only time will tell us how this story ends.

    Say what you will, I chose to be hopeful regarding Jesse’s future as an Oiler. It is the best path to rebuilding Puljujarvi’s value as an asset. Puljujarvi’s value as an asset is currently at an all time low. Trading Jesse now would be a repeat of the Yak fiasco.

    The fact that we have not traded Puljujarvi for a third round pick would appear to demonstrate that Holland understands the hand he has been dealt.

  50. Gerta Rauss says:

    CallighenMan,

    My background is in IT as well, primarily telecomm and networking

    I’ve used every flavour of browser with this site, with varying degrees of success, Chrome has been the least painful over the years so I just stick with it

  51. Munny says:

    I can’t imagine Pujo’s agent being too happy about his client’s latest interview. I can however imagine an ultimatum coming out of the subsequent conversation between client and agent. So I will not be surprised if that is the last we see of such comments in public. Unfortunately for Pujo–and the Oilers–that cork should have been inserted about two interviews ago.

  52. Scungilli Slushy says:

    CallighenMan: Gotcha.Outside of mobile devices I basically use Windows 10 with Firefox exclusively. No issues at all there either.an IT guy, so I’m a bit anal about updating.I avoid IE/Edge unless absolutely necessary and Chrome as well for the most part (I am forced to use Chrome at work unfortunately because upper management assumes everyone needs browser support !)

    I use an iPhone with Firefox, sometimes safari, I have to log in when I lose wifi, or the next day it seems. Windows 10 with firefox, sometimes chrome, same thing with the log in expiring but no other issues.

  53. dustrock says:

    I’m going to go ahead and say Puljujarvi will have an NHL career but he’s another MPS, not an All-Star.

    There’s no magical toolbox that just hasn’t been unlocked yet.

  54. Munny says:

    Pujo’s value is primarily being hurt not by his slow development, but by the view that he is difficult. The only way forward that will rehabilitate that value is for Pujo to play for the Oilers and become coachable. Europe won’t cut it. But that is a path Pujo refuses to acknowledge even exists.

    So either we have an essentially lost asset… or we will need a trade partner who is absolutely desperate for talent, or one who is convinced he has a Pujo-whisperer on staff. Oilers thought they did with Viveiros, who has that rep and a portfolio of success, but even he failed.

    The future is very dim for this young padawan–without a complete change of heart and a swallowing of pride. And stubbornness is often the ugly stepchild of pride.

    We wait. But not hopefully.

  55. Gerta Rauss says:

    Munny,

    I agree with a bit of a disconnect between agent and player and/or a “unified front” with respect to the message they are trying to portray publicly

    I thought the agent had laid the groundwork for a return to the Oilers a few weeks ago and I think Oilers fans would have welcomed Jesse back with open arms

    Now, not so much

    Anything is possible I guess, but it appears the kid is on his way out of town

  56. OriginalPouzar says:

    GMB51: Sorry; I phrased that poorly?

    Why would you put much stock in p/60 after reading this article? Genuinely curious

    That was my question. I’ve learned, primarily from this community, to value P/60 at 5 on 5, however, looking at very good P/60 numbers from players that I know are not top line or top 6 talents, I wonder if it should be so valued?

  57. JimmyV1965 says:

    I think a great deal of JPs value can be rehabilitated if he has a successful season in Europe. If he puts up big numbers, whatever league he plays in, it will get the attention of NHL
    GMs. Another year of life experience will also change his outlook on life. He will have lots of time to think about his future. He’s not the first or last 21 year old to make misguided decisions.

  58. OriginalPouzar says:

    blainer:
    Jesse I believe will have a career in the NHL …IF… he stays to play in the KHL. While they are close to finalizing rosters over there I am quite sure a team would find room for him.

    I can’t recall off the top of my head which team it is but I believe his KHL rights are held by a specific team – I don’t think he’s at liberty to just find a team in the KHL or Liga – of course, trades can be worked out over there as well.

  59. Reja says:

    Rube Foster: Brother Reja,

    You see Les Affair Puljujarvi your way, and I clearly see it from a different side. That is Ok.

    The truth is neither of us have a crystal ball, only time will tell us how this story ends.

    Say what you will, I chose to be hopeful regarding Jesse’s future as an Oiler. It is the best path to rebuilding Puljujarvi’s value as an asset. Puljujarvi’s value as an asset is currently at an all time low. Trading Jesse now would be a repeat of the Yak fiasco.

    The fact that we have not traded Puljujarvi for a third round pick would appear to demonstrate that Holland understands the hand he has been dealt.

    You do realize Jesse has 17 goals for his Career and unless him and his agent stop blabbing his NHL career might end with not many more in my opinion.

  60. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie:
    Jesse’s peer group is signing $50M ish contracts.

    The fastest and maybe to only way to contracts of that size is through Ken Holland.

    If the agent can get the big money HIS payday is +$2.5M.
    Right now his payday closer to $200k.

    The Finnish or KHL will not generate the big money.

    I am still betting Jesse is an Oiler at the start of the year.
    $1.5Mx1 year.

    Up and till a few days ago and the new “interview”, I also thought we’d see Jesse in camp this year, however, I’m not so sure any more – in particular after Holland’s comments yesterday on the subject (he’s going to work the phones over the next few weeks but, if nothing materializes, Europe is his best option).

    With all that said, if he does end up coming to camp, I don’t think Holland will give him $1.5M – three months ago, I thought he could get around there – not earned but with pedigree bump, however, if Jesse decides to change his mind now and sign, I think Holland will dig in and make him sign his QO or very slightly more.

  61. Gerta Rauss says:

    JimmyV1965:
    I think a great deal of JPs value can be rehabilitated if he has a successful season in Europe.If he puts up big numbers, whatever league he plays in, it will get the attention of NHL
    GMs. Another year of life experience will also change his outlook on life. He will have lots of time to think about his future. He’s not the first or last 21 year old to make misguided decisions.

    While I agree with this, the danger is if he plays in Europe and has a mediocre/poor season

    If that happens the kid will be worth sweet FA

  62. OriginalPouzar says:

    RubeFoster: This.

    Anthanasiou’s hold out went to the 11th hour, I believe he was actually over seas when Holland finanlly signed him to return to the Red Wings.

    Holland has the experience to pull off a Jesse reconciliation.

    I will remain hopeful until he’s no longer Oilers’ property, however, my confidence in this happening has taken a big hit over the last few days.

  63. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: I see it differently and it won’t be long to see if kosh covers Kurri’s l mean his bet on the generous contract by Pete.

    I hope he does.

  64. duct tape and foil says:

    Glovjuice: Vis-a-vis Lucic, it demonstrates how ridiculous Stauffer’s comments were regarding the importance of Lucic at the head of the table.

    Yes and I now hope we can stop signing Boston’s cast off foot soldiers expecting them to be leaders. Head of the table on that team has been and always will be Chara and Bergeron for as long as they play.

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    GertaRauss: While I agree with this, the danger is if he plays in Europe and has a mediocre/poor season

    If that happens the kid will be worth sweet FA

    How much higher is his value now?

    I don’t actually agree with Jimmy that Europe is the best place for him to increase his value but I also don’t think he should be traded unless a surprise value deal presents itself which seems very unlikely.

  66. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: I hope he does.

    I really think Tippett will do wonders for the team D and both Goalies will look good.

  67. digger50 says:

    Any thoughts on the junior showcase games?

    I seen Lavoie for only two shifts, he looked big but not fast, not fast at all.

    Thoughts?

  68. Reja says:

    duct tape and foil: Yes and I now hope we can stop signing Boston’s cast off foot soldiers expecting them to be leaders. Head of the table on that team has been and always will be Chara and Bergeron for as long as they play.

    Sea Bass

  69. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Gerta Rauss: While I agree with this, the danger is if he plays in Europe and has a mediocre/poor season

    If that happens the kid will be worth sweet FA

    Which is exactly what he is worth right now. When Holland said Jesse’s best option might be Europe he was effectively telling the agent that it might be a good idea for him to see if he can find a landing spot for his client on the other side of the pond.

  70. duct tape and foil says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Jesse bundled with an extra young dman like Bear might be appealing to someone. We have to move at least one of these young dman (Bear, Leggason, Jones) this year as they are waiver eligible next season and room has to be made for other prospects.

    Zacha anyone?

  71. JimmyV1965 says:

    Gerta Rauss: While I agree with this, the danger is if he plays in Europe and has a mediocre/poor season

    If that happens the kid will be worth sweet FA

    Totally agree. If he has a middling year in Europe I think we’re getting close to his established value. If he doesn’t hit a homerun he will essentially have no value. He may never return to the NHL for anyone. Never say never though – I guess.

  72. Gerta Rauss says:

    OriginalPouzar: How much higher is his value now?

    I don’t actually agree with Jimmy that Europe is the best place for him to increase his value but I also don’t think he should be traded unless a surprise value deal presents itself which seems very unlikely.

    Hard to say, but the verbal surrounding him suggests that there is interest from several teams

    But if the kid goes to Europe and has a poor season, do you think that whatever value the kid has now will increase..?

    Of course it won’t

    And I don’t believe Jimmy said that Europe is the best place to rehabilitate his value

  73. Gerta Rauss says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: Which is exactly what he is worth right now

    Well I don’t agree with that

    The kid has some value – maybe not much- but the verbal this summer suggests several teams have kicked the tires

  74. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: How much higher is his value now?

    I don’t actually agree with Jimmy that Europe is the best place for him to increase his value but I also don’t think he should be traded unless a surprise value deal presents itself which seems very unlikely.

    IMO the raw talent and skills that JP possesses are much greater than someone like Yak. He’s bigger, faster, stronger etc. IMO
    his biggest issue is confidence. He needs to find consistent success and remember what got him drafted so high. I’ll actually be surprised if he doesn’t put up big numbers in Europe. Failure is a real possibility though.

  75. Fuge Udvar says:

    duct tape and foil,

    I’m all aboard the Zacha train. New Jersey has lots of cap space and a lot of question marks in their bottom 6. They are missing their 2nd and 3rd round picks this year too. Some combination of picks, Puljujarvi and Gagner for Zacha could fix a lot of problems in one trade.

  76. duct tape and foil says:

    Fuge Udvar:
    duct tape and foil,

    I’m all aboard the Zacha train. New Jersey has lots of cap space and a lot of question marks in their bottom 6. They are missing their 2nd and 3rd round picks this year too. Some combination of picks, Puljujarvi and Gagner for Zacha could fix a lot of problems in one trade.

    Sure and the older McLeod is another young center who is kind of buried on a team full of them.

    I could also convince myself that Pageau (if he agrees to an extension since he’s UFA next season) and Gagner (gives them a center) could work. I’d even retain a million on Gagner if dollars are an issue (and it always is in OTT).

  77. Scungilli Slushy says:

    JimmyV1965: IMO the raw talent and skills that JP possesses are much greater than someone like Yak. He’s bigger, faster, stronger etc. IMO
    his biggest issue is confidence. He needs to find consistent success and remember what got him drafted so high. I’ll actually be surprised if he doesn’t put up big numbers in Europe. Failure is a real possibility though.

    Agreed Yak has less than Jesse. One issue is I have no idea what Jesse’s nhl game looks like.

    We know the potential, I suspect he doesn’t have the dangles to play like Rantanen, and obviously doesn’t have Laine’s shot.

    Which is why they’ve been directing him to play a power winger game, work the boards hard and drive the net, use his size and skill of which he has more than many tall bigger players.

    But like Yak he has dreams of stardom and doesn’t want to play an nhl style of game.

    It seems he is one of those that dominated partly because he was man sized among much less physically developed peers, and won’t accept what he did might not still work against players as strong (men) and at the top of the game.

  78. GMB3 says:

    OriginalPouzar: That was my question.I’ve learned, primarily from this community, to value P/60 at 5 on 5, however, looking at very good P/60 numbers from players that I know are not top line or top 6 talents, I wonder if it should be so valued?

    It’s valuable in context. It’s a rate stat (I know you know this). For example, Horcoff scored extremely well in a small sample size his rookie year. 45 or so games I believe in the bottom six. Scoring well in a bottom six role indicates he’s a successful bottom 6 player. Ditto Brodziaks. Horcoff was a legitimately good hockey player for the majority of his time. Probably not an ideal 1C, but a very good 2C for a couple of years. Cogliano, Chimera, and Pisani may not have been the legitimate ‘play driving’ top 6 guys, but there is value in scoring well in their role at 5v5.

  79. GMB3 says:

    Wonder Llama: Yes, I use safari with my Apple devices (Mac/Pad/Phone) and am logged out after each interaction. It’s been this way for about two or three months, I believe.

    It didn’t coincide with anything new I did – I assumed it was something at “the other end” that would eventually be sorted out.

    Llamas are know for their stoic, silent patience.

    I had no issues on my iPhone 7. I have an XR now, and the issue first popped up after clearing my browser history (😉).

    It just started happening a few days ago. If I leave the current post to the main page on the blog and click the post again, I’m still logged in. Strange

  80. Rube Foster says:

    Reja: You do realize Jesse has 17 goals for his Career and unless him and his agent stop blabbing his NHLcareer might end with not many more in my opinion.

    The fact that a player with 17 career goals still remains one of the Oiler’s best options to fill a top-six role, speaks more to the Oiler’s lack of depth on the Wing than it does your passion to penalize a 21 year old kid for speaking intemperately. Sad, but true – the Oiler’s winger depth, that is.

    As I have said before, you are entitled to your opinions regarding this player, but I believe your opinions are coloured by your emotions, which again is just fine… for fan.

    Puljujarvi didn’t kick a puppy or curse out Jarri Kurri’s Mother. He merely repeated his position on playing for the Oilers this season. I understand that Jesse’s comments hurt yours and some other’s feelings who frequent this site. As long-suffering Oiler’s fans, we are all entitled to our feelings.

    I will also repeat my hope that Oiler’s Management will NOT permit hurt feelings to dictate how they work towards a resolution with Puljujarvi that sees the Oilers maximize his value as an asset.

  81. Andy Dufresne says:

    Reja: Jesse and his agent have stated he doesn’t or will not playin The City Of Edmonton. Jesse is not holding out as a bargaining chip for money or term this not your typical negotiating tactics. Holland will look for a trade as the rosters shake out if not it’s off to Europe for the fourth overall pick.

    Lets play Point / Counter Point. Devils Advocate.

    A” friend of mine” recently said, lets put this all together.

    Right from the outset, Jarmo Kekäläinen (many yrs experience and many contacts in Finland) knew “something” about JP. Passed on him.

    JP got 40 NHL games in Draft +1 because??? Agent and Player. (Fuckin Dumb)

    JP couldnt play a system (to a degree that made him start to look uncoachable ala Yak)

    Our teams elite players and elite leaders (some exceptionally good players and exceptionally good people, of charachter) , in whose best interest it is, to do everything in their power to make this kid successful, not only were unable to do so, but basically at some point (surely out of utter frustration), refused to play with him.

    Then the Agent and Player again show thier general “lack of intellegnce” in a situtation where they have absolutely ZERO leverage, and they go public with demands for a trade. REALLY Dumb!

    Even when they are thrown a mulligan/do-over, New Coach, New GM, and the boogey man (Lucic) gone, they STILL fuck it up! And continue to mouth off publically,

    My friend said, he was JP supporter/booster. He held out hope that things would turn around. NOW, he says Fuck JP. I wouldnt have him back at league minumum on a 3 year deal.

    My friend says, those who blame the Oilers for this crap, in hindsight and given the evidence, need to reassess. And if they still feel this is an Oilers Mgt probelm, they need to give thier head a shake. In My Friends Opinion.

    LT is a nice guy. He hopes for the best for JP. My Friend is not that nice. He says, the multi millionaire JP completely screwed us and all he cares is that we extract any value we can for this loser.

    I’m not sure I agree with everything my friend 🙂 says , but I suspect / fear that he may be right.

  82. Andy Dufresne says:

    Rube Foster: I will also repeat my hope that Oiler’s Management will NOT permit hurt feelings to dictate how they work towards a resolution with Puljujarvi that sees the Oilers maximize his value as an asset.

    I agree with you on this. My friend? Not so much.

    My experience in business taught me that the ability to manage ones emotions is critical to success.

    More specifically, the ability to manage your emotions and the ability to subvert your ego.

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    ducttapeandfoil:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Jesse bundled with an extra young dman like Bear might be appealing to someone. We have to move at least one of these young dman (Bear, Leggason, Jones) this year as they are waiver eligible next season and room has to be made for other prospects.

    Zacha anyone?

    I’m not against a trade like that at all – just not sure if its going to come. Zacha is intriguing – assuming he signs for under $2M.

    Bear, yes, Lagesson, no.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    digger:
    Any thoughts on the junior showcase games?

    I seen Lavoie for only two shifts, he looked big but not fast, not fast at all.

    Thoughts?

    Watched a couple Canadian games and saw Lavoie similar to what I saw from him in the Q (watched 5-6 games) – I don’t tend to notice him from shift to shift but a couple times a game he seems to make a really high level skill play – generally a combo of size, speed, power and skill.

    He didn’t do much against the US but made a few really special plays the previous game.

    The hope is that, in time, he’ll develop to impact the game on a more consistent basis.

    The tools are all there – he is raw though.

  85. Andy Dufresne says:

    I wonder if they have given JP’s agent the right to go find a trade partner?

    Is that legal at this point? (CBA wise)

  86. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Andy Dufresne: Lets play Point / Counter Point. Devils Advocate.

    A” friend of mine” recently said, lets put this all together.

    Right from the outset, Jarmo Kekäläinen (many yrs experience and many contacts in Finland) knew “something” about JP. Passed on him.

    JP got 40 NHL games in Draft +1 because??? Agent and Player.(Fuckin Dumb)

    JP couldnt play a system (to a degree that made him start to look uncoachable ala Yak)

    Our teams elite players and elite leaders (some exceptionally good players and exceptionally good people, of charachter) , in whose best interest it is, to do everything in their power to make this kid successful, not only were unable to do so, but basically at some point (surely out of utter frustration), refused to play with him.

    Then the Agent and Player again show thier general “lack of intellegnce” in a situtation where they have absolutely ZERO leverage, and they go public with demands for a trade. REALLY Dumb!

    Even when they are thrown a mulligan/do-over, New Coach, New GM, and the boogey man (Lucic) gone, they STILL fuck it up! And continue to mouth off publically,

    My friend said, he was JP supporter/booster. He held out hope that things would turn around. NOW, he says Fuck JP. I wouldnt have him back at league minumum on a 3 year deal.

    My friend says, those who blame the Oilers for this crap, in hindsight and given the evidence, need to reassess. And if they still feel this is an Oilers Mgt probelm, they need to give thier head a shake. In My Friends Opinion.

    LT is a nice guy. He hopes for the best for JP. My Friend is not that nice. He says, the multi millionaire JP completely screwed us and all he cares is that we extract any value we can for this loser.

    I’m not sure I agree with everything my friend says , but I suspect / fear that he may be right.

    Hey Andy, say “Hi” to your friend Red. Great guy. Agree with him completely.

  87. Reja says:

    Andy Dufresne: Lets play Point / Counter Point. Devils Advocate.

    A” friend of mine” recently said, lets put this all together.

    Right from the outset, Jarmo Kekäläinen (many yrs experience and many contacts in Finland) knew “something” about JP. Passed on him.

    JP got 40 NHL games in Draft +1 because??? Agent and Player.(Fuckin Dumb)

    JP couldnt play a system (to a degree that made him start to look uncoachable ala Yak)

    Our teams elite players and elite leaders (some exceptionally good players and exceptionally good people, of charachter) , in whose best interest it is, to do everything in their power to make this kid successful, not only were unable to do so, but basically at some point (surely out of utter frustration), refused to play with him.

    Then the Agent and Player show thiergeneral “lack of intellegnce” in a situtation where they have absolutely ZERO leverage, and they go public with demands for a trade. REALLY Dumb!

    Even when they are thrown a mulligan/do-over, New Coach, New GM, and the boogey man (Lucic) gone, they STILL fuck it up! And continue to mouth off publically,

    My friend said, h was JP supporter/booster. He held out hope that things would turn around. NOW, he says Fuck JP. I wouldnt have him back at league minumum on a 3 year deal.

    My friend says, those who blame the Oilers for this crap, in hindsight and given the evidence, need to reassess. And if they still feel this is an Oilers Mgt probelm, they need to give thier head a shake. In My Friends Opinion.

    LT is a nice guy. He hopes for the best for JP. My Friend is not that nice. He says, the multi millionaire JP completely screwed us and all I care is that we extract any value we can for this loser.

    I’m not sure I agree with my friend , but I suspect he may be right.

    Pete thought Jesse was NHL ready and dare I say made Hall a little more tradeable. Todd tried Hitch tried if you can step back and look at the situation subjectively and read between the lines most will come to the conclusion that Holland has more important matters to deal with like getting us in the playoffs and beyond.

  88. Andy Dufresne says:

    Decidedly Skeptical Fan: Hey Andy, say “Hi” to your friend Red. Great guy. Agree with him completely.

    lol……nice…. Red says Hi right back at ya. The sky is blue and the ocean calm and that boat we restored is calling us right now…….Gone Fishin!

  89. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Reja: Pete thought Jesse was NHL readyand dare I say made Hall a little moretradeable. Todd tried Hitch tried if you can step back and look at the situation subjectively and read between the lines most will come to the conclusion that Holland has more important matters to deal withlike getting us in the playoffs and beyond.

    Yup. Later, Jesse. Feel free to let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. XOXO.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    Nice write up by Otten today on the graduating OHL prospects. 24 hour rule so I won’t post.

    I do think he does a bit of a disservice to Maksimov’s overall game as he really took on a 2-way role after the trade deadline and was a plus PK guy. He’s more than just a shooter.

  91. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Nice write up by Otten today on the graduating OHL prospects.24 hour rule so I won’t post.

    I do think he does a bit of a disservice to Maksimov’s overall game as he really took on a 2-way role after the trade deadline and was a plus PK guy.He’s more than just a shooter.

    At a minimum he’s a shooter who plays with an edge. Very pronounced mean streak. I’ll take that, thank you.

  92. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Nice write up by Otten today on the graduating OHL prospects.24 hour rule so I won’t post.

    I do think he does a bit of a disservice to Maksimov’s overall game as he really took on a 2-way role after the trade deadline and was a plus PK guy.He’s more than just a shooter.

    Link?

  93. Rube Foster says:

    Andy Dufresne: I agree with you on this. My friend? Not so much.

    My experience in business taught me that the ability to manage ones emotions is critical to success.

    More specifically, the ability to manage your emotions and the ability to subvert your ego.

    Andy,

    Thank you for articulating my point regarding my opinion on how best to manage the Puljujarvi situation.

    As Oilers fans it is well within ones purview to opt to run a 21 year old kid out of town for acting like… an immature 21 year old kid. To Reja and others I say fill your boots… just don’t ask me to drink your Kool-aid. And, should the kid re-sign and play for the Oilers, please don’t be vindictive pricks.

    I sincerely hope that Oilers management have moved on from the Souray School of Dispute Resolution and are committed to doing what is best for the team in managing the assets that is Jesse Puljujarvi. I will stand by my opinion that trading Puljujarvi while his value is at its lowest point is unwise. It’s simply not what well managed teams do – see Drouin, Jonathan.

  94. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Gerta Rauss: Why

    Then he’s just another failed draft pick – just like 21 year olds who say and do questionable things, he’s not the first and won’t be the last and there will also be many more failed draft picks, for every team.

    If he blows in Europe, then the lack of a 3-4 year contract will turn out to be a positive and we can all move on from this pick.

    I sympathize with OP and others that he appears to have a lot of tools that would have worked out for the Oilers but I think it’s pretty clear he has no intention of playing in Edmonton ever. The jury is out (another nod to OP) as to whether he actually turns out to be a valuable player wherever he ends up.

    No one can say for sure, only time will tell. But I do like Holland’s approach.

  95. Harpers Hair says:

    GMB3: I had no issues on my iPhone 7. I have an XR now, and the issue first popped up after clearing my browser history ().

    It just started happening a few days ago. If I leave the current post to the main page on the blog and click the post again, I’m still logged in. Strange

    Try Chrome for iOS…never happens to me.

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Pete thought Jesse was NHL readyand dare I say made Hall a little moretradeable. Todd tried Hitch tried if you can step back and look at the situation subjectively and read between the lines most will come to the conclusion that Holland has more important matters to deal withlike getting us in the playoffs and beyond.

    Hitchcock’s “I can fix Jesse” BS has really but a crimp in the situation.

    Jesse was finally in the proper league, the AHL, and having a very very strong start there (through only 4 games). Hitch then came in with “I can fix” Jesse and he was called up which served to:

    – further yo-yo the player
    – take away the AHL development that he was finally going to get
    – take away his waiver exemption

    Hip issue aside, I think things, at least his value, would be much different if he got the rest of the AHL season plus the playoff run and was still able to be assigned without waivers.

    Hitch “fixed” Drai but further “broke” Jesse.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    DecidedlySkepticalFan: Link?

    As I said, I’ll abide by our host’s 24 hour rule.

    Search Brock Otten Blogspot.

  98. Richard Roma says:

    OriginalPouzar: As I said, I’ll abide by our host’s 24 hour rule.

    Search Brock Otten Blogspot.

    The 24 hr rule pertains to quoting articles not linking to them.

    http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/2019/08/31-teams-in-31-days-edmonton-oilers.html

  99. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Richard Roma: The 24 hr rule pertains to quoting articles not linking to them.

    http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/2019/08/31-teams-in-31-days-edmonton-oilers.html

    Thanks, Richard.

  100. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m sure most/many of us have read what Leavins wrote about Jesse and coaching over the years. Of course, Leavins is just writing what he’s been told by those he trusts and I will take it at face value (although wonder why “all of a sudden” we hear stuff like this).

    I wonder what Godot thinks about McLellan’s work with Jesse given his posts about refusing to coach? Not calling you out Godot, not at all, genuinely curious.

    ————————————-

    “It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.”

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    Recall, in that first game after Hitch wanted Jesse back, he started as 1RW – he played a grand total of 3:25 seconds as 1RW before he was removed – then he played a grand total of 2:48 the rest of the game.

    I think that went on for a couple of games before he was then started down the lineup.

    Ughhh – Hitch effed this up – he was in the AHL with 2/3 of the Condors’ season to go. It was

  102. CallighenMan says:

    Gerta Rauss: Well I don’t agree with that

    The kid has some value – maybe not much- but the verbal this summer suggests several teams have kicked the tires

    They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal. I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights. I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

  103. Gerta Rauss says:

    CallighenMan: They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal.I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights.I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

    I can’t argue with any of that-the other GMs aren’t doing the Oilers any favours

    I too like Holland’s approach thus far and hope the kid changes his mind and comes to camp

    I don’t think that’s going to happen, but here’s hoping

  104. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    I’ve been struggling with the back and forth regarding the Jesse Puljujarvi situation. So he is 21 and we all agree (perhaps having lived it) that at that age ill advised actions and statements are shall we say “not uncommon”. So I’m not trying to vilify this young man, nor am I interested in putting the Souray Treatment to him or being vindictive.

    But, I’m willing to bet you all see the “but” coming here. The player has a tool set that ought to mesh well with what the Oilers need and the roster opportunity (play with only THE best player on the planet and his recently having gone nova linemate), yet here we are.

    Development issues aside and I’m well aware this alone could spark an entire outburst all on its own. What has happened with JP thus far has happened and there is absolutely no way of knowing whether it was a terrible thing, a neutral thing or a positive thing. Opinions are all we each have. The reality is we don’t and can’t know which of these is true.

    The player and his agent have undeniably caused loss of value by their inopportune statements and demands. First demanding a trade then more recently unequivocally stating as JP has done, that he won’t play for Edmonton.

    I don’t agree that as fans we are “running a 21 year old player out of town”. Are we annoyed as fans – yes. Is Holland annoyed – probably, but at least there is a reasonable expectation that Holland will manage the problem in a way that best benefits the Oilers. (If I was a person who prayed – and I m not, I would pray here that gone are the days of making decisions not based on winning.)

    I don’t believe that the previous comments that the Oilers “maybe drafted the village idiot” were meant as a direct literal attack on the player personally but more of a commentary that perhaps the rationale for selecting JP was if not flawed, at least misinformed. Subsequent conflagration regarding calling people names I honestly don’t really think addresses the issue with this player.

    JP may or may not actually be an NHL success, here (unlikely) or anywhere (reasonable possibility). He may not succeed anywhere in hockey. At this point we just don’t know. What we do know is that there’s no shortage of errors and finger pointing and supposition and rumor regarding this situation. Is it the case that the premier elite players on the team have actually stated they won’t play with him? Was there some sort of Lucic voodoo? Was it McLellan, Chiarelli? Others? Was it language, cooking, weather, loneliness?

    Holland has been in this situation before. He’s not “trading an asset at the lowest possible level”. He’s said, he’s tried and can’t find a deal that makes sense for he Oilers and he’s suggested JP and his agent explore things on their own and in Europe. I fail to see what else Holland could possibly do in this situation. So from that perspective, blaming “because Oilers” is just another opinion. And one that doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

    So here we are. The player and his agent have handcuffed the organization – there is no better way to sewer your trade value than making it clear to everyone who is awake (is Chiarelli napping in Minnesota yet??) that you won’t play for the team that owns you.

    For my money Holland is making the right moves here. If this young man goes back to Europe there will be at least three possible outcomes. First, he regains his confidence and excels -thereby increasing his trade value should he then actually want to return to the NHL. Second he regains his confidence and excels and learns an important lesson about what it means to be a team player and decides the chance to play with McDavid & Draisatl is best for his personal success and he returns to the Oilers after a year in Europe. Third, he demonstrates an inability to learn a system, gel as a team player, do what is asked of him to succeed and fails to live up to his draft expectations.

    Scenario one – Holland makes a trade that returns a value player or package. Scenario two, the Oilers regain an asset that had enough value to garner a 4 overall selection. Scenario three, the 4 overall selection fails to live up to expectations and hopes and the team moves on. Plenty of examples of this (ouch – “you know who” was another 4 overall wasn’t he? The guy who’s name rhymes with Riffin Grineheart”.)

    For 66.67% of these options, the Oilers come out ahead. I’m on Team Holland here.

    I apologize for the length of this. I don’t post that much and almost never anything this long, but this issue is a contentious one. I just don’t feel like absolving the player or his agent in how dismal the situation is right now, no matter how young, naive and inexperienced he is. I mean isn’t that why players get agents and a team to handle them?

    Anyway, that’s just my (goes back over text, counts it up, adds inflation and GST) 78 cents…

    Edit: I chose not to include the hip issue – I’m sure it contributes, I just think there are way more problems than an injury issue.

  105. JimmyV1965 says:

    Rube Foster: The fact that a player with 17 career goals still remains one of the Oiler’s best options to fill a top-six role, speaks more to the Oiler’s lack of depth on the Wing than it does your passion to penalize a 21 year old kid for speaking intemperately. Sad, but true – the Oiler’s winger depth, that is.

    As I have said before, you are entitled to your opinions regarding this player, but I believe your opinions are coloured by your emotions, which again is just fine… for fan.

    Puljujarvi didn’t kick a puppy or curse out Jarri Kurri’s Mother.He merely repeated his position on playing for the Oilers this season.I understand that Jesse’s comments hurt yours and some other’s feelings who frequent this site.As long-suffering Oiler’s fans, we are all entitled to our feelings.

    I will also repeat my hope that Oiler’s Management will NOT permit hurt feelings to dictate how they work towards a resolution with Puljujarvi that sees the Oilers maximize his value as an asset.

    Holland is not Steve Tambellini. I have full confidence that JP will be treated like any other asset. This asset, however, has very little value and it’s diminishing each time JP or the agent give an interview.

  106. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    CallighenMan: They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal.I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights.I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

    Works for me. Let’s hope it works for Ken too. I’m just not interested in getting a 4th or 5th rounder only to see Jesse finally “get it” with another NHL club. Jesse can just cool his heels in Europe for a while, maybe a long while.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    I apologize.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    CallighenMan: They’ve only kicked the tires to see how badly they can screw over the Oilers in a deal.I believe that as long as the Oilers keep tabling qualifying offers each year they retain his rights.I say he can stay in Europe until either Holland gets a good offer or Jesse comes to his senses and rejoins the team – no matter how long it takes.

    Yup, they’ve retained Slepy’s rights as well – no reason not to.

    Mabye they can come back from Europe together?

  109. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Walter Gretzkys Neighbour,

    That pretty much sums it all up. Great post. No apologies necessary. Now I can go see if I can find Andy and Red and do me some fishin in those calm ocean waters under that beautiful blue sky.

  110. duct tape and foil says:

    OriginalPouzar: Bear, yes, Lagesson, no.

    Agree on keeping Lagesson and Jones out of the 3

  111. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Hitchcock’s “I can fix Jesse” BS has really but a crimp in the situation.

    Jesse was finally in the proper league, the AHL, and having a very very strong start there (through only 4 games). Hitch then came in with “I can fix” Jesse and he was called up which served to:

    – further yo-yo the player
    – take away the AHL development that he was finally going to get
    – take away his waiver exemption

    Hip issue aside, I think things, at least his value, would be much different if he got the rest of the AHL season plus the playoff run and was still able to be assigned w ithout waivers.

    Hitch “fixed” Drai but further “broke” Jesse.

    Hitch can be a class A prick if he wants to be but he’s always been fair about it. Maybe hitch scared the bejesus out of Jesse.

  112. Reja says:

    For some reason I thought of another 4th overall pic in years past and needed to compare it to Jesse.
    Tale of the tape.
    Jason Bonsignore 4th overall 1994 6 foot 4 221 79 games 3 goals 13 assists
    Jesse Puljujarvi. 4th overall 2016 6 foot 4 223 139 games 17 goals 20 assists.

  113. Rube Foster says:

    WGN,

    Nice post. We’re on the same page. If a reconciliation is not in the cards then Europe is the best spot for Jesse.

    Btw Reja, if you could trade Jesse Puljujarvi and change for a Roman Hamerlik comparable, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

    Sadly, Glen Sather doesn’t work here any more.

  114. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I’m sure most/many of us have read what Leavins wrote about Jesse and coaching over the years.Of course, Leavins is just writing what he’s been told by those he trusts and I will take it at face value (although wonder why “all of a sudden” we hear stuff like this).

    I wonder what Godot thinks about McLellan’s work with Jesse given his posts about refusing to coach? Not calling you out Godot, not at all, genuinely curious.

    ————————————-

    “It has been described to me by multiple sources close to the team how Todd McLellan invested hours upon hours into trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton. One of Todd’s frustrations was Jesse’s inconsistency in getting to the net. There, the player’s size & skill combination could be a real factor. When Puljujarvi would do this and was successful Todd would not miss the opportunity to praise him. He would point out how positioning on the play was critical. But then the next shift Puljujarvi would stubbornly appear back on the perimeter again. Todd got frustrated.”

    My opinion:

    It sounds as if #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach has never looked at a minute of tape of Puljujarvi’s play in Europe. He looked at a big raw uncut diamond, and tried making a sphere out of it. Puljujarvi was primarily a puck transporter, used to playing with the puck on his stick. McLellan took away the puck. Eff how you play the game. Don’t try to evolve it. Do what I tell you to do. Skate up and down your wing. Skate to the net.

    You don’t sit an 18-year old in the pressbox for 40 games.

  115. godot10 says:

    It makes no sense for Puljujarvi to play in Europe when he is waiver eligible, so I don’t believe it will happen.

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sure, fair enough but you are moving the goalposts aren’t you? Previously you had opined that the coach wasn’t interested in coaching the player and didn’t coach him. Now, the position has changed to him coaching him but improperly, no?

    I think the 40 games is a bit of an exaggeration, isn’t it? He played 28 and, if I remember correctly, he was sent down not long after he hit the 40 game on the roster threshold?

    I have a feeling so many healthy scratch games was a function of the coach thinking he wasn’t helping the team win but the GM not re-assigning the player due to a “promise” to the agent to burn that year towards UFA and to keep him on the roster for 40.

    I never used to believe that such a promise would be made but I’ve switched on this player/situation – likely was “required” to get him to sign and/or come over to North America – another bad decision by the GM.

  117. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot:
    It makes no sense for Puljujarvi to play in Europe when he is waiver eligible, so I don’t believe it will happen.

    It may be his only option if he wants to play and refuses to play for the Oilers.

  118. Genjutsu says:

    Munny:
    Genjutsu,

    I am always awedly jealous at NID”s (s)wordsmanship.

    Agreed, yet at the the same time I feel I am a richer and better person every time I read their work. It’s not an easy read but always a rewarding one.

  119. pts2pndr says:

    digger50:
    Any thoughts on the junior showcase games?

    I seen Lavoie for only two shifts, he looked big but not fast, not fast at all.

    Thoughts?

    Bigger players rarely look fast. He gets to where he needs to be. His skating has never been mentioned as a problem. Watching him in the memorial cup he was impressive against his peers.

  120. duct tape and foil says:

    Jesse was a complete consensus #3 and was even considered by some to be potentially better than Laine.

    But Kekäläinen passed hard and that was a massive massive red flag given his record, amount of time he had to consider the pick, and passport.

    Now you would probably like a day (or even a couple hours) to consider the implications of that move, but the Oilers were on the clock with only minutes to think about it. So I don’t think you can judge them harshly for the pick. In hindsight you wish someone else was the Columbus GM and just took the kid ahead of us.

  121. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: My opinion:

    It sounds as if #ThoroughlyMediocreCoach has never looked at a minute of tape of Puljujarvi’s play in Europe.He looked at a big raw uncut diamond, and tried making a sphere out of it.Puljujarvi was primarily a puck transporter, used to playing with the puck on his stick.McLellan took away the puck.Eff how you play the game.Don’t try to evolve it.Do what I tell you to do.Skate up and down your wing.Skate to the net.

    You don’t sit an 18-year old in the pressbox for 40 games.

    My opinion
    JP plays like a centre, and perhaps as we learn more, that he’s been played at wing has to do with his attitude.

    I get in championships having Laine and him on the wings with the smaller centre made sense.

    In league play it seems Euros are really conservative, favouring older players, and really that is fair and right unless you’re talking about a Pettersen type talent.

    The hardest style of management is taming wild broncos and getting the best of them.

    It’s why Sather has my enduring admiration – the Glory team was only what it became because he could tame them enough and get the best. Different times for sure, but the same can happen now.

    I think it’s done with JP and the Oilers, there is no clean way back for him at this point.

    As with many young players and people in general, it’s the shock of life, as in a trade in NHL terms, that wakes them up. If that doesn’t they don’t have it IMO.

    Loving the skill set of the lad, I now feel he doesn’t have it. Too many excuses rolling around in his mind, if he’s still not picking up what’s being put down. He is not valued highly anymore or the new GM would have acted, especially now that Lucic was dealt.

    I don’t get the Lucic / JP rumours some are commenting about, I must have missed that JP doesn’t like ML. I mean that if the ML contract can move and was dealt, JP would be gone too if anything decent was offered.

    JP will be a great Euro league player as long as his hips hold out. Better than the other draft pick burnt on Yak. I feel a lack of due diligence by the org is at the heart of both fails. Should have traded down if they had bothered to know the player.

    Consensus both, but that doesn’t mean you have to draft them if you know they’re odd donkeys. Drop down and take what you can get, get a more suitable player to your team culture instead of burning a pick just because.

    With those big attitudes and egos, neither kid had a chance on a team like the Oilers were. I do feel the Oilers are different now with Holland.

  122. duct tape and foil says:

    Scungilli Slushy: I feel a lack of due diligence by the org is at the heart of both fails. Should have traded down if they had bothered to know the player.

    I don’t think they bothered getting into Jessie’s head much because they didn’t think they had any chance at drafting him. But that’s why you do the work. The unexpected happens and you are prepared. Not really the Oiler’s trademark though until the new boss arrived.

  123. Scungilli Slushy says:

    pts2pndr: Bigger players rarely look fast. He gets to where he needs to be. His skating has never been mentioned as a problem. Watching him in the memorial cup he was impressive against his peers.

    In the touney snippets I’ve seen he will go the the net hard with dangles. The Oilers have lacked shooters, but also players that drive the net trying to beat people one on one, for ages.

    In football terms, it’s like having a running game and passing attack, having a rounded offense keeps the D from being able to key on strategies that can shit down an anemic offensive attack.

    Danger, every rush, is the goal. By passing, skating, dangling, board play or shooting. Whatever the players can do and what the opponent D system leaves available. There’s always something left on the table.

    Edit: ‘shut’ not ‘shit’ dpwn.

    ‘down’ uggh

  124. Scungilli Slushy says:

    duct tape and foil: I don’t think they bothered getting into Jessie’s head much because they didn’t think they had any chance at drafting him. But that’s why you do the work. The unexpected happens and you are prepared. Not really the Oiler’s trademark though until the new boss arrived.

    Thankfully we’ve been able to learn that Holland wants the book on every player in a significant league in the world per his new head scout.

    I won’t go into my opinions about Chiarelli but suffice to say I don’t have the feels he was working very effectively or hard as an Oiler employee. Backed up for me by the fact there are insinuations in the MSM he wasn’t talking to people internally. Signs of things not being good IMO.

    I of course have no idea of the real situation, but we all form opinions based on our own experiences and available info.

  125. SkatinginSand says:

    Scungilli Slushy,
    With Jesse making it very clear that a trade is exactly what he wants (and expects) would going to another team just lead to a bigger sense of entitlement? It obviously is already a problem and if I was a GM, that fear would mean that I would not give up anything for him.

  126. Professor Q says:

    godot10:
    It makes no sense for Puljujarvi to play in Europe when he is waiver eligible, so I don’t believe it will happen.

    Do you mean that it wouldn’t make sense if he *wasn’t* waiver eligible and could be assigned to the AHL without being claimed?

    Because Holland said he’s going to be trying his best in the next few weeks to try to get a deal. If he can’t do anything by training camp then Europe is Jesse’s best option.

    He’s not going to give him to another team for free.

  127. Georgexs says:

    Quick recap:

    1. McLellan was awful. From the beginning to the end. He could’ve just played JP if the decision had been made to play JP in year one. Instead, according to Leavins’ sources, he “invested hours upon hours trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton”. Does that sound right or smart? How do you think those hours played out? Walking down Whyte Ave? Mini-golf at WEM? Sharing a banana split at Marble Slab? To be fair, McLellan more or less announced he was an un-locking type of HC when he arrived; he was here to un-lock the Oilers, to un-lock Hall, to un-lock Eberle, to un-lock Schultz, to un-lock the winners locked inside those losers. You see how that type of framing may not be the best for players, right? People can spend a lot of time in a job and develop absolutely no insight into the nature of that job.

    (Who the heck are Leavins’ “multiple sources close to the team” now that the regime has changed? Has the regime not changed? Or does Holland need to win the hearts and minds of the locals too?)

    2. Hitchcock was busy forming a deep, comfy groove in his couch when he got the bat signal from PC. “Honey.. ” “What?” “Where is my Super Suit?” “What?” “Where.Is.My.Super.Suit?” Why, Hitch? Why? You were good. You were chillin’. You had the Swiss leadership summits. And bocce. There was absolutely nothing at stake, except maybe steak. Hitch knew how to fix things too, just like McLellan. A few losses down the road… and he’s turned on his team, just like McLellan. Plays CMD and Drai, what was it, 25 minutes a night, more than McLellan, actually. New HC really learned a lot from those Swiss leadership summits. Thank God Holland said, yeah Hitch, not gonna happen.

    3. Both of these fine individuals formed excellent relationships with local media. With their players? errmm… With respect to their relationship with JP and all the effort they put into “fixing” him… Come on man. If you don’t think a teenager (20 year old) is ready to play at the NHL level, don’t play him at the NHL level. If you think he is ready to play at the NHL level, play him at the NHL level… consistently. Our two respected old hands could’ve made one choice or the other. Either choice would have helped the player find a path to success in the organization. Instead they went with play him, get mad at him, don’t play him, play him somewhere else, get mad at him, don’t play him… will you hurry up and get fixed already?!

    JP was bungled. It’s done.

    A lot of optimism for Tippett. He doesn’t talk like these two guys. So, hopefully, he doesn’t think like these two guys. He’s a real NHL player from the old days, well liked, apparently, by his former players. Also, he has fewer laurels to rest on, having experienced failure in his last few seasons as HC. And then, getting a second chance after getting passed over for HC opportunities the last two seasons… that’ll sharpen your wits and your senses.

  128. Scungilli Slushy says:

    SkatinginSand:
    Scungilli Slushy,
    With Jesse making it very clear that a trade is exactly what he wants (and expects) would going to another team just lead to a bigger sense of entitlement? It obviously is already a problem and if I was a GM, that fear would mean that I would not give up anything for him.

    Likely what is happening when Holland works the phones. Lowball offers. Might just be a feeling out process, they all try a 4th round pick or bland player or prospect, then maybe somebody steps up who has some real interest.

  129. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Georgexs:
    Quick recap:

    1. McLellan was awful. From the beginning to the end. He could’ve just played JP if the decision had been made to play JP in year one. Instead, according to Leavins’ sources, he “invested hours upon hours trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton”. Does that sound right or smart? How do you think those hours played out? Walking down Whyte Ave? Mini-golf at WEM? Sharing a banana split at Marble Slab? To be fair, McLellan more or less announced he was an un-locking type of HC when he arrived; he was here to un-lock the Oilers, to un-lock Hall, to un-lock Eberle, to un-lock Schultz, to un-lock the winners locked inside those losers. You see how that type of framing may not be the best for players, right? People can spend a lot of time in a job and develop absolutely no insight into the nature of that job.

    (Who the heck are Leavins’ “multiple sources close to the team” now that the regime has changed? Has the regime not changed? Or does Holland need to win the hearts and minds of the locals too?)

    2. Hitchcock was busy forming a deep, comfy groove in his couch when he got the bat signal from PC. “Honey.. ” “What?” “Where is my Super Suit?” “What?” “Where.Is.My.Super.Suit?” Why, Hitch? Why? You were good. You were chillin’. You had the Swiss leadership summits. And bocce. There was absolutely nothing at stake, except maybe steak. Hitch knew how to fix things too, just like McLellan. A few losses down the road… and he’s turned on his team, just like McLellan. Plays CMD and Drai, what was it, 25 minutes a night, more than McLellan, actually. New HC really learned a lot from those Swiss leadership summits. Thank God Holland said, yeah Hitch, not gonna happen.

    3. Both of these fine individuals formed excellent relationships with local media. With their players? errmm… With respect to their relationship with JP and all the effort they put into “fixing” him… Come on man. If you don’t think a teenager (20 year old) is ready to play at the NHL level, don’t play him at the NHL level. If you think he is ready to play at the NHL level, play him at the NHL level… consistently. Our two respected old hands could’ve made one choice or the other. Either choice would have helped the player find a path to success in the organization. Instead they went with play him, get mad at him, don’t play him, play him somewhere else, get mad at him, don’t play him… will you hurry up and get fixed already?!

    JP was bungled. It’s done.

    A lot of optimism for Tippett. He doesn’t talk like these two guys. So, hopefully, he doesn’t think like these two guys. He’s a real NHL player from the old days, well liked, apparently, by his former players. Also, he has fewer laurels to rest on, having experienced failure in his last few seasons as HC. And then, getting a second chance after getting passed over for HC opportunities the last two seasons… that’ll sharpen your wits and your senses.

    Nice comments G

    I have never been a fan of the term unlocked. It assumes there is something locked.

    I like how Tippet talks bout putting players in a spot to succeed. I think that is closer to the truth of things. Most players at the NHL level are limited players in some or most ways.

  130. who says:

    Andy Dufresne: Lets play Point / Counter Point. Devils Advocate.

    A” friend of mine” recently said, lets put this all together.

    Right from the outset, Jarmo Kekäläinen (many yrs experience and many contacts in Finland) knew “something” about JP. Passed on him.

    JP got 40 NHL games in Draft +1 because??? Agent and Player.(Fuckin Dumb)

    JP couldnt play a system (to a degree that made him start to look uncoachable ala Yak)

    Our teams elite players and elite leaders (some exceptionally good players and exceptionally good people, of charachter) , in whose best interest it is, to do everything in their power to make this kid successful, not only were unable to do so, but basically at some point (surely out of utter frustration), refused to play with him.

    Then the Agent and Player again show thier general “lack of intellegnce” in a situtation where they have absolutely ZERO leverage, and they go public with demands for a trade. REALLY Dumb!

    Even when they are thrown a mulligan/do-over, New Coach, New GM, and the boogey man (Lucic) gone, they STILL fuck it up! And continue to mouth off publically,

    My friend said, he was JP supporter/booster. He held out hope that things would turn around. NOW, he says Fuck JP. I wouldnt have him back at league minumum on a 3 year deal.

    My friend says, those who blame the Oilers for this crap, in hindsight and given the evidence, need to reassess. And if they still feel this is an Oilers Mgt probelm, they need to give thier head a shake. In My Friends Opinion.

    LT is a nice guy. He hopes for the best for JP. My Friend is not that nice. He says, the multi millionaire JP completely screwed us and all he cares is that we extract any value we can for this loser.

    I’m not sure I agree with everything my friend says , but I suspect / fear that he may be right.

    Good post and your friend makes a lot of good points. But I think his first point is bullshit.
    I don’t buy this whole narrative that the Finnish GM “knew something” about JP. He wanted a potential 1st line center and picked the best one available. End of story. Did he “know something” about Tkachuk too?
    I also think Holland should stick to his guns. If he can’t turn JP into a potential impact player he should just let him sweat. You can find bottom six forwards and bottom pairing dmen anywhere. There is very little risk in hanging on to JP at this point.

  131. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Likely what is happening when Holland works the phones. Lowball offers. Might just be a feeling out process, they all try a 4th round pick or bland player or prospect, then maybe somebody steps up who has some real interest.

    Wonder what Columbus would offer. Maybe a bag of pucks without the bag or the pucks. Would love to be in Ken’s office when that call is made.

  132. Richard Roma says:

    Reja:
    For some reason I thought of another 4th overall pic in years past and needed to compare it to Jesse.
    Tale of the tape.
    Jason Bonsignore 4th overall 1994 6 foot 4 221 79 games 3 goals 13 assists
    Jesse Puljujarvi.4th overall 2016 6 foot 4 223 139 games 17 goals 20 assists.

    Griffin Reinhart 4rth overall 2012. 6 foot 4 212 37 games 0 goals 2 assists

  133. ArmchairGM says:

    Re: P/60, I note that Currie spent a grand total of 4 minutes with McDavid last year and the duo combined for 2 goals in that span. It certainly hiked his P/60, although I was impressed with his scoring rates outside of his McDavid time too. I think he deserves to be in the conversation for 3rd line next season too – along with about 15 other guys.

  134. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    Georgexs:
    Quick recap:

    1. McLellan was awful. From the beginning to the end. He could’ve just played JP if the decision had been made to play JP in year one. Instead, according to Leavins’ sources, he “invested hours upon hours trying to un-lock Puljujarvi when he first arrived in Edmonton”. Does that sound right or smart? How do you think those hours played out? Walking down Whyte Ave? Mini-golf at WEM? Sharing a banana split at Marble Slab? To be fair, McLellan more or less announced he was an un-locking type of HC when he arrived; he was here to un-lock the Oilers, to un-lock Hall, to un-lock Eberle, to un-lock Schultz, to un-lock the winners locked inside those losers. You see how that type of framing may not be the best for players, right? People can spend a lot of time in a job and develop absolutely no insight into the nature of that job.

    (Who the heck are Leavins’ “multiple sources close to the team” now that the regime has changed? Has the regime not changed? Or does Holland need to win the hearts and minds of the locals too?)

    2. Hitchcock was busy forming a deep, comfy groove in his couch when he got the bat signal from PC. “Honey.. ” “What?” “Where is my Super Suit?” “What?” “Where.Is.My.Super.Suit?” Why, Hitch? Why? You were good. You were chillin’. You had the Swiss leadership summits. And bocce. There was absolutely nothing at stake, except maybe steak. Hitch knew how to fix things too, just like McLellan. A few losses down the road… and he’s turned on his team, just like McLellan. Plays CMD and Drai, what was it, 25 minutes a night, more than McLellan, actually. New HC really learned a lot from those Swiss leadership summits. Thank God Holland said, yeah Hitch, not gonna happen.

    3. Both of these fine individuals formed excellent relationships with local media. With their players? errmm… With respect to their relationship with JP and all the effort they put into “fixing” him… Come on man. If you don’t think a teenager (20 year old) is ready to play at the NHL level, don’t play him at the NHL level. If you think he is ready to play at the NHL level, play him at the NHL level… consistently. Our two respected old hands could’ve made one choice or the other. Either choice would have helped the player find a path to success in the organization. Instead they went with play him, get mad at him, don’t play him, play him somewhere else, get mad at him, don’t play him… will you hurry up and get fixed already?!

    JP was bungled. It’s done.

    A lot of optimism for Tippett. He doesn’t talk like these two guys. So, hopefully, he doesn’t think like these two guys. He’s a real NHL player from the old days, well liked, apparently, by his former players. Also, he has fewer laurels to rest on, having experienced failure in his last few seasons as HC. And then, getting a second chance after getting passed over for HC opportunities the last two seasons… that’ll sharpen your wits and your senses.

    I love all of this! Perfect.

  135. Jordan says:

    So…LTs on vacation and no new post this morning?

    What a strange way to spend a holiday Monday morning without a new take on our Oilers.

  136. rickithebear says:

    Had this in my notes.

    Cannot remember if I posted it here.

    Comparing M. Tkachuks 19 yr evg season to JP’s.
    Tkachuk
    16-17 76gm; 958:49;
    10 evg; 0.63 evg/60
    Frolik 792:37
    Backlund 785:28

    Puljujarvi
    17-18 65gm; 820:10; 10evg; .73evg/60
    Lucic L 467:25
    Mcdavid C 258:48
    Strome C 238:25
    Khaira L 136:34
    RNH C 118:01
    Drai R 103:43
    Over 600min of Lucic/Khaira playing LW

    18/19
    46gm 527:54
    RNH C 245:10
    Khaira L 158:16
    Lucic L 126:45
    Caggulia L,C
    Strome 68:52
    Mcdavid 67:30
    Brodziak 52:21

    The kid racks evg better than M Tkachuk at 19 and you give him 67:30 with Mcdavid the next year!

    What wingers got more with Mcdavid?

    18-19
    Mcdavid
    Draisaitl LW,RW 888:03
    Kassian RW 436:21
    RNH LW 418:37
    Chaisson RW 305:13
    Rattie RW 247:31 Rattie?
    Caggulia LW 144:21
    Lucic LW 108:03
    Khaira LW 68:55

    That is 8 wingers getting better Mcdavid time.
    How many wingers are their in a game?
    8 wingers.
    If that isn’t the oilers telling him (p… …) You are not wanted, what is?

    Rattle 247:31
    Seriously!

  137. Walter Gretzkys Neighbour says:

    rickithebear:
    Had this in my notes.

    Cannot remember if I posted it here.

    Comparing M. Tkachuks 19 yr evg season to JP’s.
    Tkachuk
    16-17 76gm; 958:49;
    10 evg; 0.63 evg/60
    Frolik 792:37
    Backlund 785:28

    Puljujarvi
    17-18 65gm; 820:10; 10evg; .73evg/60
    Lucic L 467:25
    Mcdavid C 258:48
    Strome C 238:25
    Khaira L 136:34
    RNH C 118:01
    Drai R 103:43
    Over 600min of Lucic/Khaira playing LW

    18/19
    46gm 527:54
    RNH C 245:10
    Khaira L 158:16
    Lucic L 126:45
    Caggulia L,C
    Strome 68:52
    Mcdavid 67:30
    Brodziak 52:21

    The kid racks evg better than M Tkachuk at 19 and you give him 67:30 with Mcdavid the next year!

    What wingers got more with Mcdavid?

    18-19
    Mcdavid
    Draisaitl LW,RW 888:03
    Kassian RW 436:21
    RNH LW 418:37
    Chaisson RW 305:13
    Rattie RW 247:31 Rattie?
    Caggulia LW 144:21
    Lucic LW 108:03
    Khaira LW 68:55

    That is 8 wingers getting better Mcdavid time.
    How many wingers are their in a game?
    8 wingers.
    If that isn’t the oilers telling him (p……) You are not wanted, what is?

    Rattle 247:31
    Seriously!

    Right but what if the rumors are true and McDavid expressed unwillingness to play with him? What do you do as coach or GM if the premier player on your team – and the league – has issues with this player?

    I’m asking – what do you do? Ignore said premier player, make him do what the coach wants, or look for other linemate combinations that could work?

    I don’t know the answer to this. We don’t know for sure (do we?) that McDavid has said this, but his end of season verbal said if you aren’t committed then get out, right?

    Again there is no clear answer. But by all accounts the JP ship has sailed and there’s really little point in hashing out grievances about what went on. JP had the chance to come back, new coach, new GM, opportunity to start again but he and his agent chose to nuke the site from orbit.

    It’s over. Whatever becomes of JP it won’t happen here in Edmonton. My bet is he goes on to a so-so career in Europe.

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