Knowing Me, Knowing You

In their final three drafts with the Detroit Red Wings, Ken Holland and director of amateur scouting Tyler Wright drafted eight players from Sweden (out of 28 picks). That’s 28.6 percent. Edmonton’s first choice with Holland at the helm was from Sweden. I wrote about Holland and Sweden here. This scouting group values the kingdom of Sweden.

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

SWEDEN’S BEST 2020

  1. RW Alexander Holtz. First-shot scorer with a range of skills, he’s an electric player.
  2. LW Lucas Raymond. Smart player, ridiculous skill. March 2002. NHLE is 14.8, but he played only 9:48.
  3. RW Noel Gunler. Has a great release, 1.92 even strength points per 60 in SHL.
  4. LD William Wallinder. Big D, with great speed and offensive potential.
  5. LD Emil Andrae. Fast defenseman with offensive potential. Plus passer.
  6. RW Zion Nybeck. Undersized playmaker, creative, great passer. Impressive speed.
  7. RD Helge Grans. Solid two-way defenseman with good size and speed.
  8. LW Daniel Torgersson. He has size and good speed, numbers at lower levels are impressive.
  9. RC Theodor Niederbach. Skill center is a wild card but the numbers are impressive.
  10. LW Oskar Magnusson. Smaller winger with good speed and two-way acumen.
  11. G Calle Clang. Good size, a .913 SP and stellar work at the Hlinka.
  12. LC Elliot Ekmark. High skill, elusive, great speed, undersized.
  13. LC Daniel Ljungman. Emerged from nowhere at the Hlinka Gretzky, he had a solid year.
  14. LW Emil Heineman. Not much on him, 18 goals in 29 SuperElite games.
  15. LW Eric Juhlin. Good shot, solid performance (13 goals in 36 games) at even strength.

Noel Gunler would be a worthy first-round pick for Edmonton at No. 20 overall, Helge Grans and Emil Heineman are intriguing. Based on the established track records of Holland and Wright, one of these men could be an Oilers prospect by the end of draft weekend.

SWEDEN 2019

  1. LD Philip Broberg. He’s big and can skate like the wind, offense may be shy.
  2. RD Victor Soderstrom. Impressive offensive player. Good skater, good decisions, very quick.
  3. F Samuel Fagemo. A bona fide shooter, he has more clarity in his game now.
  4. LD Tobias Björnfot. Outstanding speed, impressive offensive talent.
  5. LW Nils Hoglander. A small skill winger, he can beat defensemen clean.
  6. R Albin Grewe. Rugged winger with skill.
  7. LC Karl Henriksson. Small and very skilled forward
  8. RW Simon Holmstrom. Elite Prospects: A deft skater with some explosiveness to his game.
  9. LD Albert Johansson. The scouting reports give us a picture of a fairly complete defenseman.
  10. LC Oscar Bjerselius. Good speed and size, he’s a solid two-way forward.
  11. RD Simon Lundmark. A fascinating player, good vision and outlet passing.

All but Oscar Bjerselius were chosen in the 2019 draft, one by Edmonton (Broberg) and two by Detroit (Grewe and Johansson).

Hugo Gustafsson

I watch Allsvenskan like a hawk these days after the strong draft crops of recent summers. Hugo Gustafsson is 20 (February 2000), had some concussion issues but played well this season. He might be on an NHL list.

It sounds like we’ll see movement toward the end of May or early June in opening up things a little. Baby steps and it’ll be fits and starts based on what we’ve seen worldwide. The government can open things up but for the economy to come back people have to engage. That step will differ depending on age, risk et cetera. Be safe, ladies and men.

2020 POSSIBLE TOP 100 TARGETS

No. 20 overall: Jan Mysak, Seth Jarvis, Mavrik Bourque, Noel Gunler

No. 82 overall: Brandon Coe, Alex Cotton, Theo Rochette, Helge Grans

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95 Responses to "Knowing Me, Knowing You"

  1. jp says:

    Tons and tons of factors, but I’d love to see the Oilers play more games this season.

  2. jtblack says:

    jp:
    Tons and tons of factors, but I’d love to see the Oilers play more games this season.

    +1. Would be great to have something to follow, cheer for, bet and then celebrate when Edm wins the Cup !

  3. jp says:

    It really is incredible how much Holland has used Sweden as a prospect pool.

    It would be odd if Holland doesn’t draft at least 1 Swede (just checked, 1992 is the last draft he didn’t, man!).

    It’s served him well over the years, and I like Broberg as a prospect too.

  4. jp says:

    jtblack,

    Exactly! 🙂

  5. €√¥£€^$ says:

    Torgersson and Magnussen are my favourite value picks for the later Rounds.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    I missed that Rishaug tweet/write-up yesterday – good info, thank you.

    Adam Silver’s comments yesterday were a little disheartening in this regard.

    Yes, they’ve opened up practice facilities in some places (highly restricted opening) but doesn’t sounds like they are close to starting to ramp things up.

    The NHL may have a bit of a time advantage as, in my opinion, they WANT to start 2020/21 as late as possible – they don’t want to start without fans (and may not) and without the AHL (and CHL) also playing.

    Listening to Silver, fans may not be an option for a while yet.

  7. dustrock says:

    LT going with poptimism last couple of days.

    Most underrated ABBA track of all time? Going to go with Head Over Heels from The Visitors.

  8. jp says:

    Harpers Hair,

    Sad news, RIP.

  9. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Little Richard has passed away.

    https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/entertainment/2020/5/9/1_4932249.html

    RIP

    87 is a good long run.

  10. OriginalPouzar says:

    It was mentioned last night that all leagues are in trouble and listening to Friedman’s spot on Oilers Now from yesterday he expressly mentioned the CHL in trouble (when the topic of government funding sports came up). Jimmy mentioned federal funding for the CHL and could very well be right. AHL is going to need help and I think that league needs to run lock-step with the NHL – expanded rosters and taxi-squads with no cap implication could be structured but I think its fairly important the AHL runs if the NHL is running.

  11. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    It was mentioned last night that all leagues are in trouble and listening to Friedman’s spot on Oilers Now from yesterday he expressly mentioned the CHL in trouble (when the topic of government funding sports came up). Jimmy mentioned federal funding for the CHL and could very well be right. AHL is going to need help and I think that league needs to run lock-step with the NHL – expanded rosters and taxi-squads with no cap implication could be structured but I think its fairly important the AHL runs if the NHL is running.

    How do you see the AHL operating without fans in the stands considering their TV revenue is minuscule?

  12. Victoria Oil says:

    LT – I’m blaming you if that ABBA song is stuck in my head all day. ?

  13. Lowetide says:

    Victoria Oil:
    LT – I’m blaming you if that ABBA song is stuck in my head all day. ?

    Well, Knowing Me, Knowing You, a-HAAAAAAA,
    There is nothing we can do
    Knowing me, knowing you, a-HAAAAAA,
    We just have to face it
    This time we’re through (this time we’re through)
    Breaking up is never easy, I know
    But I have to go
    Knowing me, knowing you
    It’s the best I can do

  14. Victoria Oil says:

    Lowetide,

    Ha! I probably deserved that.

  15. Lowetide says:

    Victoria Oil:
    Lowetide,

    Ha! I probably deserved that.

    Lol. If it’s in my brain I refuse to be alone!

  16. Munny says:

    Lowetide: Lol. If it’s in my brain I refuse to be alone!

    ….a stone alone?

  17. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair: How do you see the AHL operating without fans in the stands considering their TV revenue is minuscule?

    You didn’t ask me, but hope you don’t mind me interjecting… the only way I see it happening is with heavy financial support from the NHL.

    I think the AHL is very important to the senior league. Important enough to lend support despite the economic troubles they the Big League will be going through.

    Perhaps they consign some of the expansion money to that direction.

    I would say the A isn’t completely without leverage in this situation. They do provide a needed service.

  18. Yeti says:

    Allow me to begin an anticipatory countdown for SwedishPoster’s comments on the Sweden top20 list… I love that guy’s insights.

  19. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Little Richard has passed away.

    https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/entertainment/2020/5/9/1_4932249.html

    A trailblazer. He deserves every kudo sent his way.

  20. Louis Levasseur says:

    Just thinking about the conditional 3rd involved in the Neal-Lucic trade. I don’t think prorating makes sense. If you look at 82 games, then I think the condition is met, but in the last couple of months before the shutdown, Neal was not on a 21 goal pace and Lucic was starting to score. Even if Neal scored 2 more goals, I think you could argue that Lucic was going to score enough to get inside the 10 goal differential. I guess it comes down to what you consider to be the most fair timeframe.

    I feel bad for the teams that gave up picks at the deadline and took on big UFA salaries if the season is cancelled. I don’t suppose they will get those draft picks back. The risk of the cancelled season falls on them, I would assume. I think the same logic applies for why the Flames don’t get the 3rd pick if the regular season is cancelled.

  21. Harpers Hair says:

    Munny: You didn’t ask me, but hope you don’t mind me interjecting… the only way I see it happening is with heavy financial support from the NHL.

    I think the AHL is very important to the senior league.Important enough to lend support despite the economic troubles they the Big League will be going through.

    Perhaps they consign some of the expansion money to that direction.

    I would say the A isn’t completely without leverage in this situation. They do provide a needed service.

    Unlike others…I welcome discourse.?

    Even when it contradicts my narrative.

    Since the NHL is going to lose a minimum of a billion and still will need to address revenue sharing, I can’t see how they could foot the bill for the AHL considering the costs of quarantine, testing etc. will be enormous.

    Your idea of using expansion money is a good one but it’s a year away.

  22. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair: How do you see the AHL operating without fans in the stands considering their TV revenue is minuscule?

    There are no published numbers for AHL budgets that I can find but because this has been mentioned a few times maybe some numbers might provide some context.

    Every team is different in terms of ticket sales and the range is quite large. The Cleveland Monsters led the league in average attendance this past season at just over 9,000 while Stockton limped in at just under 2,800. The west coast teams only play 34 home games while the rest of the league play 38 for seasons of 68 or 76.

    http://hockey.sigmagfx.com/compseason/ahl/1920

    https://www.bakersfieldcondors.com/tickets/season-tickets/

    https://www.bakersfieldcondors.com/tickets/season-tickets/

    https://stocktonheat.com/2020-21-heat365-memberships/

    If you go to the Bakersfield website above you see the ticket range.

    If you take the ‘executive’ tickets as their median at $760 for the season and multiply it by their average attendance of 5,306 you get revenue of $4M. There would be parking and concession revenue as well as sweaters etc but you also have to subtract rink rental, salaries and wages etc. so lets guesstimate that after all those things are added and subtracted the teams are ahead by another $1M for revenue of $5M for the season. They were 15th out of 31 teams for average attendance.

    Hershey charges $735 for their season package and averaged 8,753 fans per game. That put them 2nd out of 31 teams for attendance. No fans in their seats would cost them $6.4M plus whatever else they might collect from lousy beer and soggy french fries. Let’s say $7.5 mil for them to run without fans for the season.

    The Stockton Heat are pathetic. They pull in 2,781 fans on average and they peddle their tickets at $830 for their mid range season ticket package so they pull in about $2.3 mil in ticket revenue and I imagine you have to drink quite a bit of beer to watch them so I round it up to $3M in total revenue.

    I have no idea if the teams are on the hook for player salaries this coming season or not but I suspect they are – regardless if they play or not but so it is really just ‘bums in the seats drinking and eating’ revenue that is affected.

    What if the league plays half the season without fans and the other half with? That seems like it might be possible. What if there are no fans for only the first third of the season?

    None of this answers whether or not the NHL owners are interested in losing an average of about $5M in order to keep the league running for the year. The finances of the various NHL owners vary as well but I can see some teams that don’t own their affiliate thinking this is a good time to buy that team cheaply and take it over.

    If you have a net worth of, say, $2.5 billion – to just pluck a number out of the air – what does it really matter if it costs you $5M more to run your vanity business this year. For some it doesn’t matter one bit. For others it will and for some it doesn’t matter but they still don’t want to do it.

    But at least now I think it can be said that the AHL can run without fans if health considerations allow and the parent clubs think it is worth doing.

  23. Shane says:

    A young Jimi Hendrix got a break in the early-mid 1960s as a touring guitar player in Little Richards band The Upsetters.

  24. Harpers Hair says:

    defmn: There are no published numbers for AHL budgets that I can find but because this has been mentioned a few times maybe some numbers might provide some context.

    Every team is different in terms of ticket sales and the range is quite large. The Cleveland Monsters led the league in average attendance this past season at just over 9,000 while Stockton limped in at just under 2,800. The west coast teams only play 34 home games while the rest of the league play 38 for seasons of 68 or 76.

    http://hockey.sigmagfx.com/compseason/ahl/1920

    https://www.bakersfieldcondors.com/tickets/season-tickets/

    https://www.bakersfieldcondors.com/tickets/season-tickets/

    https://stocktonheat.com/2020-21-heat365-memberships/

    If you go to the Bakersfield website above you see the ticket range.

    If you take the ‘executive’ tickets as their median at $760 for the season and multiply it by their average attendance of 5,306 you get revenue of $4M. There would be parking and concession revenue as well as sweaters etc but you also have to subtract rink rental, salaries and wages etc. so lets guesstimate that after all those things are added and subtracted the teams are ahead by another $1M for revenue of $5M for the season. They were 15th out of 31 teams for average attendance.

    Hershey charges $735 for their season package and averaged 8,753 fans per game. That put them 2nd out of 31 teams for attendance. No fans in their seats would cost them $6.4M plus whatever else they might collect from lousy beer and soggy french fries. Let’s say $7.5 mil for them to run without fans for the season.

    The Stockton Heat are pathetic. They pull in 2,781 fans on average and they peddle their tickets at $830 for their mid range season ticket package so they pull in about $2.3 mil in ticket revenue and I imagine you have to drink quite a bit of beer to watch them so I round it up to $3M in total revenue.

    I have no idea if the teams are on the hook for player salaries this coming season or not but I suspect they are – regardless if they play or not but so it is really just ‘bums in the seats drinking and eating’ revenue that is affected.

    What if the league plays half the season without fans and the other half with? That seems like it might be possible. What if there are no fans for only the first third of the season?

    None of this answers whether or not the NHL owners are interested in losing an average of about $5M in order to keep the league running for the year. The finances of the various NHL owners vary as well but I can see some teams that don’t own their affiliate thinking this is a good time to buy that team cheaply and take it over.

    If you have a net worth of, say, $2.5 billion – to just pluck a number out of the air – what does it really matter if it costs you $5M more to run your vanity business this year. For some it doesn’t matter one bit. For others it will and for some it doesn’t matter but they still don’t want to do it.

    But at least now I think it can be said that the AHL can run without fans if health considerations allow and the parent clubs think it is worth doing.

    Thanks for that.

    Another real issue is that health officials in different jurisdictions will allow opening up on very different schedules so, unless you adopt the bubble cities modal proposed by the NHL, you would have some teams and divisions playing and others not.

    For example, there are five AHL teams in New York State which is likely to lag other states re-opening by a considerable amount.

  25. N64 says:

    Shane:
    A young Jimi Hendrix got a break in the early-mid 1960s as a touring guitar player in Little Richards band The Upsetters.

    After Monterey he did this. 8 dates was enough.

    https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/31214/1967-jimi-hendrix-opened-monkees

  26. Turning Tikkanese says:

    Victoria Oil:
    LT – I’m blaming you if that ABBA song is stuck in my head all day. ?

    ABBA? I thought he was referencing the Billy Withers song… 😉

  27. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Louis Levasseur,

    Also, pro-rating doesn’t allow for injury or slump. It’s a silly notion, to pro-rate conditional draft picks or bonuses.

    If the season had continued but Neal had shot off his mouth in a (so-called) private group chat to the extent his contract was terminated, the pick condition wouldn’t vest whether he was on pace to score enough or not. There would be no pro-rating. Unanticipated? Yes. Unfortunate for CGY? Yes. Tough beans.

  28. unca miltie says:

    defmn,

    I went to a game in Bakersfield last winter. Very well attended and a good vocal crowd. No parking revenue, looked like a large city owned lot close to the arena, parked for free.
    i could be wrong but I thought the NHL teams pay most if not all the salary’s of the players for the AHL teams even if they dont own the team

  29. Harpers Hair says:

    Milan Lucic weighs in on the conditional pick in the James Neal trade.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/milan-lucic-james-neal-trade-conditions-quick-shifts/

  30. defmn says:

    unca miltie:
    defmn,

    I went to a game in Bakersfield last winter. Very well attended and a good vocal crowd. No parking revenue, looked like a large city owned lot close to the arena, parked for free.
    i could be wrong but I thought the NHL teams pay most if not all the salary’s of the players for the AHL teams even if they dont own the team

    I think you are right about the salaries. It is my understanding that 19 of the 31 teams are owned by their parent affiliate. It is the other 12 that I don’t know about.

  31. Harpers Hair says:

    defmn: I think you are right about the salaries. It is my understanding that 19 of the 31 teams are owned by their parent affiliate. It is the other 12 that I don’t know about.

    This may help.

    https://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/5076/do-minor-league-hockey-teams-pay-their-players

  32. OriginalPouzar says:

    Unconfirmed but reports are that Markus Granlund will be signing with UfA in the KHL.

    Of course, he’s currently under NHL contract so it can’t officially happen at this point.

    Now, I’ll take his brother but, of course, that will cost an extra 3-4 million per……

  33. OriginalPouzar says:

    First the “never say never” quip playing vids and now ball hockey in an Oilers’ toque……

    Welcome back to the team Jesse……..

    https://twitter.com/zjlaing/status/1259178074047840256?s=21

  34. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair: Thanks for that.

    Another real issue is that health officials in different jurisdictions will allow opening up on very different schedules so, unless you adopt the bubble cities modal proposed by the NHL, you would have some teams and divisions playing and others not.

    For example, there are five AHL teams in New York State which is likely to lag other states re-opening by a considerable amount.

    There are definitely issues unrelated to the economics of playing without fans. I just thought a little context on that particular aspect might further the conversation.

    As I said $5M – on average – would be the cost. Whether or not that cost is acceptable to the various interested parties would require more nuance but for the typical billionaire owner it is not an insurmountable obstacle. The five teams in NY state can play out of state if necessary since there would be no fans in any case.

    I do think that a prudent plan might be based upon playing the last half of the season in front of fans, for example. That reduces the average cost to $2.5M or a third line winger in terms an NHL owner might use. 😉

  35. tileguy says:

    Lowetide: Lol. If it’s in my brain I refuse to be alone!

    At least now I am rid of sunny sunny days
    Lying in the sun listening to the radio.

  36. Munny says:

    defmn,

    Agreed over here. As I said above, I think the benefits to the NHL far outweigh the costs.

    Assuming The Show has gone on, of course.

    And there are other things they can do to mitigate operating costs.

  37. Munny says:

    defmn,

    One thing that might be discussed is the affiliate playing wherever the parent club is playing, for those outfits that have this relationship.

    Reduces travel and border crossing exposures and related expenses.

    Don’t know if they would go for it, but I think it will get proposed/discussed.

  38. defmn says:

    Munny:
    defmn,

    One thing that might be discussed is the affiliate playing wherever the parent club is playing, for those outfits that have this relationship.

    Reduces travel and border crossing exposures and related expenses.

    Don’t know if they would go for it, but I think it will get proposed/discussed.

    Maybe. The Pacific division is pretty geographically contained so I can see them staying there. Others might have other plans. If the NHL is to re-start crossing the border is a hurdle that has to have been removed.

  39. Victoria Oil says:

    Turning Tikkanese,

    Turning Tikkanese is a great handle. How many people on this planet understand Tikkanese? Very few, I would guess, even in Finland.

  40. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: How do you see the AHL operating without fans in the stands considering their TV revenue is minuscule?

    I believe that all but 10-11 AHL teams are owned by NHL teams (I think that’s right but happy to be corrected if this isn’t totally accurate).

    The AHL is, in my opinion, massively important to the NHL in respect of both (a) existing play and the cap structure that goes with the current NHL and (b) of course, development of players for the future.

    Given the foregoing, an that prospects are assets of the organization (and, ultimately, the respective owners) I believe the Board of Governors and the NHL, as a group, would be largely in favor of taking steps necessary to ensure that the AHL can operate – it benefits the current NHL in the now and the teams in the future.

    I don’t know exactly what that would look like – potentially NHL teams helping fund their AHL-owned teams with some sort of league funding included for non-NHL owned affiliates (or perhaps the non-NHL owned affiliates don’t participate and their assets are spread in the short term to operating teams.

  41. JimmyV1965 says:

    Louis Levasseur:
    Just thinking about the conditional 3rd involved in the Neal-Lucic trade.I don’t think prorating makes sense.If you look at 82 games, then I think the condition is met, but in the last couple of months before the shutdown, Neal was not on a 21 goal pace and Lucic was starting to score.Even if Neal scored 2 more goals, I think you could argue that Lucic was going to score enough to get inside the 10 goal differential.I guess it comes down to what you consider to be the most fair timeframe.

    I feel bad for the teams that gave up picks at the deadline and took on big UFA salaries if the season is cancelled.I don’t suppose they will get those draft picks back.The risk of the cancelled season falls on them, I would assume.I think the same logic applies for why the Flames don’t get the 3rd pick if the regular season is cancelled.

    LT has mentioned the easy, common-sense solution on his radio program many times. The league gives Calgary a an extra third round pick and Edmonton keeps its own. This might not work for other trades involving picks, but it’s a no brainer for this one.

  42. Harpers Hair says:

    Army & Navy permanently closing its stores.

    A Canadian institution.

  43. Gerta Rauss says:

    JimmyV1965: LT has mentioned the easy, common-sense solution on his radio program many times. The league gives Calgary a an extra third round pick and Edmonton keeps its own.This might not work for other trades involving picks, but it’s a no brainer for this one.

    I agree that this is how this will probably play out

    If the draft is in June(before play restarts) EDM keeps the pick

    If/when play restarts, and if/when they complete the regular season, and if/when Neal scores 2 more goals(and Lucic does not), Calgary will be given a compensatory 3rd round pick in 2021

    If there is no regular season(and they go straight to a playoff format), maybe Calgary gets a compensatory 4th or 5th round pick in 2021

  44. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp:
    Tons and tons of factors, but I’d love to see the Oilers play more games this season.

    Absolutely, I would love it as well.

    Don’t know that its going to happen. Don’t know that is isn’t.

    Things are moving, and not moving, in real time.

    I wonder if the halt of the huge “early June draft” momentum, all of a sudden (and the league professing there is no urgency to the decision) is due to league thinking that no resumption of the 19/20 season (or playoffs) is realistic and they may wait until cancellation before the draft?

    Just a thought.

  45. OriginalPouzar says:

    Aside from the fact that we all love to watch Oiler hockey, the benefits of a few more “regular season games” and/or some playoffs would/should/could provide Holland with some solid information for off-season decision-making:

    – how does Mike Green look – if they are going to continue quasi-2nd pairing useage, and he plays for a stretch, it provides informaiton on where he could slot in the lineup next season (if re-signed) and potential contract terms

    – Ethan Bear – prospects, in particular d-man, don’t develop in a straight line. I think its Jimmy that has concern of a 2nd season regresssion. One can almost think of a re-start as a new season and, if Bear simply picks up where he left off, that’s a great sign.

    – Nygard – he was coming on a bit when his season was cratered and he went on IR – where does he slot in the lineup with AA and Ennis now in the fold? Is he the 3LW with Archie and Sheahan? Do we try him at 1LW given his success with McDavid (small sample)?

    – AA himself – we’ve (well I’ve) posited a likely uptick in play with a training camp with Tip and the staff and healthy. Well, there will be a good 2-3 week training camp and he’ll be healthy. This could be some good info on if he will fit on Connor’s wing or elsewhere.

  46. Munny says:

    defmn: Maybe. The Pacific division is pretty geographically contained so I can see them staying there. Others might have other plans. If the NHL is to re-start crossing the border is a hurdle that has to have been removed.

    The thing is, NHL teams largely travel by charter, can afford segregated disembarkation procedures, etc.

    But a call-up generally comes by regular mail… which means greater personal exposure and quarantining till test results received. Plus the political risk of whatever is happening in their usual locale (possibly preventing them from leaving/returning).

    Might be a lot easier if the affiliate roster was already in town.

  47. €√¥£€^$ says:

    Louis Levasseur,

    I posted something on this 3 weeks ago:

    Since Dec 5:

    1. Lucic 8 goals 8 assists
    2. Neal 5 goals 7 assists (hat trick on New Year’s eve)
    3. Kassian 6 goals 9 assists (2 goals in 2020)

  48. Rondo says:

    Noel Gunler would be an excellent pick at # 20

    Helge Grans would be an excellent pick at # 82

  49. Munny says:

    Harpers Hair:
    Army & Navy permanently closing its stores.

    A Canadian institution.

    Sad. But probably a good idea.

    Considering the number of big box retailers cratering in the US, I expect this isn’t the last announcement of this sort on this side of the border.

    I’d say the Doc Marten craze was probably peak A&N… at least in my lifetime.

  50. buck yoakam says:

    Harpers Hair,

    ya well lucic is probably thinking he was on a heater and couldn’t help but jeopardize the conditions…man he was such a poser…no leadership at all..

  51. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: Lol. If it’s in my brain I refuse to be alone!

    I can hear the drums Fernando.

  52. Harpers Hair says:

    Bob Dylan (@bobdylan) Tweeted:
    I just heard the news about Little Richard and I’m so grieved. He was my shining star and guiding light back when I was only a little boy. His was the original spirit that moved me to do everything I would do.

  53. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny: You didn’t ask me, but hope you don’t mind me interjecting… the only way I see it happening is with heavy financial support from the NHL.

    I think the AHL is very important to the senior league.Important enough to lend support despite the economic troubles they the Big League will be going through.

    Perhaps they consign some of the expansion money to that direction.

    I would say the A isn’t completely without leverage in this situation. They do provide a needed service.

    As I posted a bit earlier this morning (but after this post), i generally agree with this premise. I don’t know what the financial aid will look like but, with only 11 (I think) teams now owned by the AHL affiliate, and given how important the AHL is to the NHL, I would anticipate something is worked out.

    There may be a short-term contraction, but I anticipate they find a way to get the season running in line with the NHL.

  54. godot10 says:

    I can see Katz bringing the Condors to Edmonton for a season. If the Flames, Jets, and Vancouver all bring their teams home. A couple of other teams might put teams in Saskatoon and Regina. Add Minnesota, and maybe get someone to put a team in North Dakota.

    And one has a nice little contained six to eight team division/temporary league. Sell a subscription TV service of the games, or sell it to content starved sports networks.

  55. godot10 says:

    godot10:
    I can see Katz bringing the Condors to Edmonton for a season.If the Flames, Jets, and Vancouver all bring their teams home.A couple of other teams might put teams in Saskatoon and Regina.Add Minnesota, and maybe get someone to put a team in North Dakota.

    And one has a nice little contained six to eight team division/temporary league.Sell a subscription TV service of the games, or sell it to content starved sports networks.

    Because the CHL will likely also have no fans, one isn’t cannabalizing them.

  56. SwedishPoster says:

    Don’t have time for a longer write up but I’ll launch Theo Niederbach as my Swedish value pick of the draft. Imo an argument could be made that he has the third highest upside of the swedes in this draft. Guy missed all of last year with an injury yet went above ppg in superelit despite the injury hampering one of his main strengths, skating, for the majority of the season. Whilst being smart defensively. Kid is somewhat Zetterbergesque in certain aspects so Holland should like him(as should Håkan Andersson…)

    Heineman is really intriguing as a later pick as well. Just put it all together and exploded this season.

    This is one of the best draft groups out of Sweden in a long long time btw. Lots of interesting players and for once it’s a pretty forward heavy group.

  57. jtblack says:

    €√¥£€^$:
    Louis Levasseur,

    I posted something on this 3 weeks ago:

    Since Dec 5:

    1. Lucic8 goals 8 assists
    2. Neal 5 goals 7 assists (hat trick on New Year’s eve)
    3. Kassian 6 goals 9 assists (2 goals in 2020)

    ANSWER: What are 3 overpaid players 🙂

  58. defmn says:

    Munny: The thing is, NHL teams largely travel by charter, can afford segregated disembarkation procedures, etc.

    But a call-up generally comes by regular mail… which means greater personal exposure and quarantining till test results received.Plus the political risk of whatever is happening in their usual locale (possibly preventing them from leaving/returning).

    Might be a lot easier if the affiliate roster was already in town.

    I suppose. I guess I was thinking half the season is spent on the road and who knows when you need a sudden call up. There is no ‘good’ answer in any of this that I can see. Just a series of better and worse options.

  59. defmn says:

    https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/

    With two different leagues, the NHL and NBA, looking into neutral sites to finish out their 2019-20 seasons, Las Vegas looks to be at the top of the list. MGM Resorts have reportedly shown interest, offering to host either league in the city. However, Adrian Dater of Colorado Hockey Now reports that Vegas has become the source of a turf battle between the two leagues as the main neutral site for the playoffs.

    The NHL might have the advantage, however, considering that the Golden Knights are well established in the city, while there is no NBA team. The NBA is also considering Disney World as a potential site.

  60. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair:

    A question for you, please.

    I keep reading that Judd Brackett, director of amateur scouting for Vancouver is leaving as soon as his contract expires at the end of June because he is unhappy with management.

    It seems to me that at one point you had pretty high praise for the job he has done the last few years for the Canucks.

    Any idea what happened?

  61. ArmchairGM says:

    Any chance Matt Benning’s brother Michael is available at 82? I’d grab him there if he was.

  62. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Unlike others…I welcome discourse.

    Even when it contradicts my narrative.

    Since the NHL is going to lose a minimum of a billion and still will need to address revenue sharing, I can’t see how they could foot the bill for the AHL considering the costs of quarantine, testing etc. will be enormous.

    Your idea of using expansion money is a good one but it’s a year away.

    Good one.

    If anything, I encourage discourse and engage in numerous discussions when my opinion varies from others.

    What you have recently being doing is not engaging in a different opinion but posting something that would change the conversation to a difference subject – that’s not a differing opinion, that’s moving the goal-posts for your narrative or simply providing a strawman.

    ———————-

    With respect to your position above, I don’t disagree that extra expenses for ownership and the league are not optimal but neither is a scenario where the NHL plays without the AHL and, given the importance of the AHL, some additional expense at the highest levels, may be required/provided.

  63. Harpers Hair says:

    defmn: A question for you, please.

    I keep reading that Judd Brackett, director of amateur scouting for Vancouver is leaving as soon as his contract expires at the end of June because he is unhappy with management.

    It seems to me that at one point you had pretty high praise for the job he has done the last few years for the Canucks.

    Any idea what happened?

    Yeah…it looks likely.

    Word is he is unhappy with how much Benning meddles in the draft and is looking for more autonomy.

    He’s the goods.

  64. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    JimmyV1965,

    Gerta Rauss,

    Strongly disagree.

    The pick should vest based on the agreed upon conditions, or not at all.

    I’d imagine 30 teams would not be in favour of CGY gaining a pick and everyone else shuffling back in the order for something that was supposed to happen, but didn’t.

    There’s a reason they play the games.

  65. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Good one.

    If anything, I encourage discourse and engage in numerous discussions when my opinion varies from others.

    What you have recently being doing is not engaging in a different opinion but posting something that would change the conversation to a difference subject – that’s not a differing opinion, that’s moving the goal-posts for your narrative or simply providing a strawman.

    ———————-

    With respect to your position above, I don’t disagree that extra expenses for ownership and the league are not optimal but neither is a scenario where the NHL plays without the AHL and, given the importance of the AHL, some additional expense at the highest levels, may be required/provided.

    Right.

  66. OriginalPouzar says:

    Harpers Hair: Thanks for that.

    Another real issue is that health officials in different jurisdictions will allow opening up on very different schedules so, unless you adopt the bubble cities modal proposed by the NHL, you would have some teams and divisions playing and others not.

    For example, there are five AHL teams in New York State which is likely to lag other states re-opening by a considerable amount.

    I don’t think the “bubble cities” model is something that would be contemplated for the 2020/21 season at either the NHL or AHL level – that’s really a mechanism to get some sort of additional 2019/20 revenue and fulfill some TV contract and advertising commitments (when the largest expense, player salary, is already “spent”).

    I don’t see 2020/21 starting until there can be travel between Canada and the US and the general ability to play in all relevant jurisdictions – of course, “mass gatherings”, that is, fans in the stands, is not required for play.

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    unca miltie:
    defmn,

    I went to a game in Bakersfield last winter. Very well attended and a good vocal crowd. No parking revenue, looked like a large city owned lot close to the arena, parked for free.
    i could be wrong but I thought the NHL teams pay most if not all the salary’s of the players for the AHL teams even if they don’t own the team

    I can’t say for sure but I would anticipate that AHL contracts are the financial obligations of the AHL team but payment for players in the AHL on NHL-contract would be the financial obligation of the NHL team.

    Of course, for the Oilers and Condors, they are both ultimately owned by the same owner and, while that is the case for many of the AHL teams, not all.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    Munny: The thing is, NHL teams largely travel by charter, can afford segregated disembarkation procedures, etc.

    But a call-up generally comes by regular mail… which means greater personal exposure and quarantining till test results received.Plus the political risk of whatever is happening in their usual locale (possibly preventing them from leaving/returning).

    Might be a lot easier if the affiliate roster was already in town.

    Will mandatory quarantining in all cases (crossing the CAN/US border) still be the case when this gets going (Nov/Dec)? I sure hope not.

  69. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Because the CHL will likely also have no fans, one isn’t cannabalizing them.

    I think the CHL, unlike the NHL, may get some government funding.

    It could be thought to set a precedent, but its not a professional league like CFL and various other lower end pro and semi-pro leagues in the country.

  70. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Harpers Hair,

    So if Benning is meddling in the draft process then how much of the scout’s influence can you attribute to the VCR drafting record?

  71. Munny says:

    godot10:
    I can see Katz bringing the Condors to Edmonton for a season.If the Flames, Jets, and Vancouver all bring their teams home.A couple of other teams might put teams in Saskatoon and Regina.Add Minnesota, and maybe get someone to put a team in North Dakota.

    And one has a nice little contained six to eight team division/temporary league.Sell a subscription TV service of the games, or sell it to content starved sports networks.

    This is really close to what I was thinking.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    JimmyV1965,

    Gerta Rauss,

    Strongly disagree.

    The pick vests based on the agreed upon conditions, or it doesn’t.

    I’d imagine 30 teams would not be in favour of CGY gaining a pick and everyone else shuffling back in the order for something that was supposed to happen, but didn’t.

    There’s a reason they play the games.

    While I am, in no way, saying that they should pro-rate but I also don’t agree with the premise that its as simple as “the condition was clear and the condition didn’t vest”.

    The trade was consummated under the presumption that a normal 82-game regular season would be played.

    That didn’t happen. The circumstances have changed.

    I don’t know what the league will end up doing but, taking off my Oilers’ goggles, I don’t think its as simple as “condition didn’t vest – no pick”.

    There are all sorts of conditions and other contract and CBA related issues that will have to be looked at – many performance bonuses and even lesser talked about matters like Rasmus Sadin – he wasn’t on the roster for 40 games but he was on pace to be (and would have been) – does this vest a year towards UFA? On the same premise as above, he wasn’t on the roster for 40 games, so it shouldn’t? Right?

  73. Munny says:

    I remember being really nervous for this Game 7. Don’t know why, this was this best of the dynasty teams in my opinion. Maybe the Hextall factor.

  74. defmn says:

    Harpers Hair: Yeah…it looks likely.

    Word is he is unhappy with how much Benning meddles in the draft and is looking for more autonomy.

    He’s the goods.

    Thanks for the answer. If he is as good as you say he will get scooped up in no time.

    It sounds like this was a misstep by Benning from the rumours that I read.

  75. defmn says:

    Munny:
    I remember being really nervous for this Game 7.Don’t know why, this was this best of the dynasty teams in my opinion.Maybe the Hextall factor.

    Is this the one where the Oilers had the lead going into the 3rd and simply played keepaway with the puck for the entire last 20 minutes of the game. I think Philly got 3 shots or something like that.

  76. McNuge93 says:

    Munny:
    I remember being really nervous for this Game 7.Don’t know why, this was this best of the dynasty teams in my opinion.Maybe the Hextall factor.
    I remember fearing the whole 3rd period the flyers were going to tie it up.

    I think the nervousnous was due to oilers blowing a 3 -1 lead in the series, a 3 -0 lead in one of the games and that their dynasty being in peril given they lost to Calgary the previous year on the Smith own goal.

  77. Harpers Hair says:

    defmn: Thanks for the answer. If he is as good as you say he will get scooped up in no time.

    It sounds like this was a misstep by Benning from the rumours that I read.

    Yep. Benning has been roasted by the media in Vancouver for months.

  78. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Okay taking aside factors you brought up that weren’t under consideration in the gist of the original conversation (like performance bonuses and vesting UFA years, which muddy the waters)…

    We aren’t dealing with a one team anomaly here. The entire league, natch, world has been impacted by this situation. At some point everyone will have to take their lumps. Owners, advertisers, players, staff, fans.

    Each scenario to sub-clause of the CBA will merit a degree or more of reconsideration at some point. But in the interim, the middle ground may be much like the transfer agreements — hold the line until determined otherwise — that prove to be the most prudent.

    For things that rely on the conclusion of the season, like vesting UFA contract years, performance bonuses, trade conditions, etc, we really need to arrive at… the conclusion of the season.

    Today, if the season ended, the conditions didn’t vest. Ergo, no deal. As I see it.

  79. Munny says:

    McNuge93: I think the nervousnous was due to oilers blowing a 3 -1 lead in the series, a 3 -0 lead in one of the games and that their dynasty being in peril given they lost to Calgary the previous year on the Smith own goal.

    That’s right.

    And then when the game began… the two quick penalties to the Oil and Philly scoring on the ensuing powerplay. Halfway through the second, after we’ve thrown the kitchen sink at them for nearly 30 minutes, we should be up something like 6-2… and its still bloody 1-1.

    Just seemed like it wasn’t meant to be.

  80. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: While I am, in no way, saying that they should pro-rate but I also don’t agree with the premise that its as simple as “the condition was clear and the condition didn’t vest”.

    The trade was consummated under the presumption that a normal 82-game regular season would be played.

    That didn’t happen. The circumstances have changed.

    I don’t know what the league will end up doing but, taking off my Oilers’ goggles, I don’t think its as simple as “condition didn’t vest – no pick”.

    There are all sorts of conditions and other contract and CBA related issues that will have to be looked at – many performance bonuses and even lesser talked about matters like Rasmus Sadin – he wasn’t on the roster for 40 games but he was on pace to be (and would have been) – does this vest a year towards UFA? On the same premise as above, he wasn’t on the roster for 40 games, so it shouldn’t? Right?

    The league didn’t play 82 games and apparently advertisers and TV rights holders aren’t going to pay because of same. Given that example why should the Oilers have to give Calgary a third round draft pick.

  81. godot10 says:

    Munny:
    I remember being really nervous for this Game 7.Don’t know why, this was this best of the dynasty teams in my opinion.Maybe the Hextall factor.

    The 76-77 Habs vs the 86-87 Oilers is the series that I would want most to see.

  82. Munny says:

    godot10,

    Despite my Bruins getting swept in 1977, I think I favour the 78 Habs team… Cournoyer was able to play in the playoffs that 78 season, and Engblom had his first full season and playoffs in 1978.

    The only other major piece missing between the two teams was Frank’s brother, Pete. I’ll take the Roadrunner over Little M.

    But really you can’t go wrong with either roster.

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Okay taking aside factors you brought up that weren’t under consideration in the gist of the original conversation (like performance bonuses and vesting UFA years, which muddy the waters)…

    We aren’t dealing with a one team anomaly here.The entire league, natch, world has been impacted by this situation.At some point everyone will have to take their lumps.Owners, advertisers, players, staff, fans.

    Each scenario to sub-clause of the CBA will merit a degree or more of reconsideration at some point.But in the interim, the middle ground may be much like the transfer agreements — hold the line until determined otherwise — that prove to be the most prudent.

    For things that rely on the conclusion of the season, like vesting UFA contract years, performance bonuses, trade conditions, etc, we really need to arrive at… the conclusion of the season.

    Today, if the season ended, the conditions didn’t vest.Ergo, no deal.As I see it.

    I understand your premise but I don’t agree that it is the black and white.

    If they do the draft without the season being cancelled and have to make a decision on the condition or if they cancel the rest of the season without further regular season games (or close to 82) – in either case, I simply don’t see “condition didn’t vest” being the clear “right answer” – I don’t know what the “right answer” is mind you.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    pts2pndr: The league didn’t play 82 games and apparently advertisers and TV rights holders aren’t going to pay because of same. Given that example why should the Oilers have to give Calgary a third round draft pick.

    A dispute between the league and a third party does not equate to a dispute as between two teams in the league.

    We also do not know how the matters between the league and the rights holders will end up playing out – there very well may be some sort of pro-rating solution.

  85. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I understand your premise but I don’t agree that it is the black and white.

    If they do the draft without the season being cancelled and have to make a decision on the condition or if they cancel the rest of the season without further regular season games (or close to 82) – in either case, I simply don’t see “condition didn’t vest” being the clear “right answer” – I don’t know what the “right answer” is mind you.

    Vesting is not the default. So literal conditions need to be met.

    The exception actually illustrates this. NHL has indicated they would intervene to adjust terms if draft run BEFORE season cancellation.

  86. dustrock says:

    Think maybe posted already but Wheeler killing it on Mysak. Was intrigued by this guy before the article, but if you’re hoping to catch a poor man’s Pastrnak….

    https://theathletic.com/1793047/2020/05/09/wheeler-why-jan-mysak-is-one-of-the-2020-nhl-drafts-top-forward-prospects/

  87. Greenberg says:

    Vaguely related to the above is the EPHL history around 1959-61.
    The Montreal Canadiens were miffed with the AHL and they helped form the Eastern Professional Hockey League. (Remember back then, it was still a six-team NHL.)
    Some EPHL all-stars in that time period included: Gerry McNeil, J.C. Tremblay, Moe Mantha, Tom McCarthy, Bob Courcy, Cal Gardner (then a Bruin property), Claude Evans, Gerry Odrowski, Gilles Tremblay, Orval Tessier, Ed Johnston, Jean Gauthier, Al MacNeil, Fred Hilts, Bobby Rousseau, Cliff Pennington, Gerry McNamara, Pat Stapleton, Jack Bowness, Eddie Kachur, Cesare Maniago, Harry Sinden, Keith McCreary, Jack McCartan, Jim Neilson and Leon Rochefort.
    Rod Gilbert and Jean Ratelle (their first post-junior year) and the Balon brothers, played for the 1960-61 Kitchener Beavers, the Rangers affiliate. Kingston was the Bruins team. The Canadiens affiliate was Hull-Ottawa I think Sudbury, the Sault and maybe North Bay had teams. The Leafs didn’t participate in the league; possibly their nose was out of joint because it was a Habs promotion.
    It was good, tough hockey. But it didn’t last.

  88. Greenberg says:

    The EPHL item was meant for a previous discussion around 5-6 p.m.

  89. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I tend to view the public conditions of a contract in a direct, literal manner. That there were extenuating circumstances — out of the control of either party — is immaterial to the vesting of the condition in surrendering the pick (in my opinion). Granted, I am /not/ a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

    If the season ends as it stands today, the pick should not transfer. Hell, even Lucic agrees.

  90. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    N64,

    That’s closer to how I see it… vesting is the exception not the rule.

    The trade (Lucic for Neal + retained salary) is the trade unless both a) Neal hits 20 + goals and b) Neal > 10 goals than Lucic; in which case the deal becomes Lucic + 3rd round pick for Neal+ retained salary.

    Or, at least, that’s my read on the publicly available terms.

  91. N64 says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    N64,

    That’s closer to how I see it… vesting is the exception not the rule.

    The trade (Lucic for Neal + retained salary) is the trade unless both a) Neal hits 20 + goals and b) Neal > 10 goals than Lucic; in which case the deal becomes Lucic + 3rd round pick for Neal+ retained salary.

    Or, at least, that’s my read on the publicly available terms.

    Yes. If this involved players bonuses then the CBA and grievance resolution would come into play. But I can’t see vesting this in whole or part unless a supermajority of guvs approved. Unlikely when by definition as many winners and losers.

    But when the issue of a draft before final cancellation of season emerged. And we heard that the NHL would.remediate in that situation

    But if the season was cancelled before the draft why would the NHL report to the guvs that the literal deal would be set aside? Surely they approve reports from Gary because Gary, but why would he volunteer to meddle in deals? What precedent says he would?

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