Fly Like an Eagle

godot10: Holland was drafting Klefbom’s replacement, to insure continuity of a contending level defense, when an injury-prone 30-year old Klefbom looks for a big retirement contract.

A smooth transition from Klefbom Nurse to Broberg Nurse in three years on the left side of the D.

McDavid and Draisaitl and a solid D means consistent contending.Wingers are easy to find.D much harder.

That would be my assessment as well.

Georges:
defmn,

In public, he said “I’m thinking playoffs” when he was hired, he said “I’m not talking rebuild. I’m talking about we’ve got to compete for a playoff spot” on the eve of the season, on Dec. 20th, he said “My goal was for us to be competitive and in the playoff hunt in March and we started well.”, on Jan. 6, he said “When you’ve got Connor McDavid, the window is now” and “I believe the window to try to be in the playoffs is now. We’re in the race.”

And at the trade deadline, he gave up picks to secure NHL players.

The stuff he was putting out for public consumption follows a pattern. It’s the pattern of a GM who expects his team to compete now, not later. He wasn’t talking up how bad a situation he inherited and how long it’ll take him to sort it out. He could’ve but he didn’t.

We may have different experience but not sure we have different information. My experience is that you can’t orchestrate a turnaround by talking out of the side of your mouth to the folks who have to see the turnaround through.

“This is exactly what I mean by a shotgun approach as opposed to aiming with a rifle. You send out a spray effect and because you have lots of opportunity you expect to hit enough targets while missing with others. I’m not sure what you think that expression means but that is what I think it means.”

You followed your shotgun comment with “That is not the approach of a GM who thinks the team is ready to contend imo.” in your original post. Which suggest you see a shotgun approach as being inconsistent with a plan to win near term. Otoh, your follow up comment says that a shotgun approach can “hit enough targets”. Which is what I was getting at. That you could do what Holland did and still expect to contend. You seem to be thinking contending is contending for the Cup. I believe Holland felt contending meant contending for a playoff spot. And he took steps that in his mind would ensure his team would do just that. The team had league best options at forward and too few options at forward, no natural 1D or even an offensive threat at D, and hot and cold tandem goaltending. So, yeah, tough to compete for the Cup unless some of that gets fixed up. Too bad the season ended, because Holland’s trade deadline deals brought in some very interesting players that could’ve addressed the team’s forward depth problems. We’ll never know.

“I really like Tippett but I am not sure what this has to do with what I wrote. It is just as easy to write that Tippett had failed to make the playoffs in Phoenix when he last coached. Are you meaning to say that hiring Tippett was a guarantee of success?”

I meant that Holland hired a coach who led two successful turnarounds. PC hired a coach who had only coached (either as an assistant or as HC) flagship franchises, never a struggling one. You’ve cited your own experience in these situations. I’m assuming you believe experience matters. I do too.

Hiring Tippett (and giving him a short leash 3 year contract) is the kind of move you make when you want to contend now, not 3-4 years from now. And, yeah, I think hiring Tippett guaranteed the team would contend for the playoffs: success if you will. The last two coaches were net negatives for this team; results under them were worse than what they should have reasonably been.

Holland points to this when he says “When you’ve got Connor McDavid, the window is now”. Because, yeah, that’s RE when you have CMD. Tippett isn’t a negative for this team. He’s coached struggling teams that had barely enough talent to compete. He seems to prefer building up his players; a favorite quote of his is put players in a position where they can succeed, another is the lovely you have to find ways to stay in a game. He seems direct, sincere, and plain spoken. And he’s been out of the league two years. A brush with coaching mortality as it were. He shows up hungry and the contract makes sure he stays hungry. Holland removed a negative and brought in a positive. More than enough to have the team contend.

Your comments on Bear, Jones, and Yams as being uncertain to be useful and important players are fair. We’ll see by the end of Tippett’s reign whether the trajectories of some of the younger players changed under his watch. I’m really not sure what the results in the AHL can tell us about results in the NHL, how much development happens down there. A lot of it might be luck and timing at the NHL level, playing for the right HC who happens to be looking for an answer to a question. And is willing to give you more than a couple of tries to come up with something. You make the right play and your confidence goes way up, you avoid getting blown up on a crucial play and instead you make the right read and do something good for your team. I mean, how different are these players anyway?

Tippett has shown a lot of commitment to Bear, even when Bear has played losing 5v5 minutes. I think the coaching staff keeps encouraging the kid to compete and make plays, and sure enough the kid does. It’s really something, because, as you’ve pointed out, neither Bear nor Jones have draft pedigree. They’re orphans from the old regime. Tippett, like honey badger, don’t care…

(The opportunity knocking bit was after the Persson injury in TC.)

In public, he said “I’m thinking playoffs” when he was hired, he said “I’m not talking rebuild. I’m talking about we’ve got to compete for a playoff spot” on the eve of the season, on Dec. 20th, he said “My goal was for us to be competitive and in the playoff hunt in March and we started well.”, on Jan. 6, he said “When you’ve got Connor McDavid, the window is now” and “I believe the window to try to be in the playoffs is now. We’re in the race.”

All true but I don’t know of one single GM or HC who would say anything different in the same situation. As far as I know this is standard new hire commentary. That’s all.

“And at the trade deadline, he gave up picks to secure NHL players.”

Agreed. But that doesn’t say anything about his expectations going into the draft last summer which is what the Broberg pick was about. The team did really well this year. I think better than Holland expected. You think he expected the team to do this well. But the additions at the deadline were based upon what they did as opposed to anything else I would think.

The stuff he was putting out for public consumption follows a pattern. It’s the pattern of a GM who expects his team to compete now, not later. He wasn’t talking up how bad a situation he inherited and how long it’ll take him to sort it out. He could’ve but he didn’t.

“We may have different experience but not sure we have different information. My experience is that you can’t orchestrate a turnaround by talking out of the side of your mouth to the folks who have to see the turnaround through.”

Again. Every GM does this. Or at least every successful GM does this. GM’s have two jobs. To put a winning team together and to put bums in the seats for his owner so he can make money. Presenting a positive outlook is part of both of those jobs imo.

“You followed your shotgun comment with “That is not the approach of a GM who thinks the team is ready to contend imo.” in your original post. Which suggest you see a shotgun approach as being inconsistent with a plan to win near term. Otoh, your follow up comment says that a shotgun approach can “hit enough targets”. Which is what I was getting at. That you could do what Holland did and still expect to contend. You seem to be thinking contending is contending for the Cup. I believe Holland felt contending meant contending for a playoff spot. And he took steps that in his mind would ensure his team would do just that. The team had league best options at forward and too few options at forward, no natural 1D or even an offensive threat at D, and hot and cold tandem goaltending. So, yeah, tough to compete for the Cup unless some of that gets fixed up. Too bad the season ended, because Holland’s trade deadline deals brought in some very interesting players that could’ve addressed the team’s forward depth problems. We’ll never know.”

You are correct. I see “contending” as for the Cup rather than for a playoff first round exit. The “shotgun” comment was not meant in a pejorative way. He did exactly the right thing imo. He had holes everywhere in the bottom six – at least – and so rather than using one bullet to target a particular spot – as many here wanted in the form of a top 6 winger – he sprayed his ammunition like a shotgun does so that he could hit many more targets hoping some of them would work. And they did. Just like he wanted. But a GM of a contending team doesn’t do that because a contending team doesn’t have a bunch of holes in the lineup. He takes aim at one or maybe two players. He uses a rifle rather than a shotgun approach with a narrower focus.

“I meant that Holland hired a coach who led two successful turnarounds. PC hired a coach who had only coached (either as an assistant or as HC) flagship franchises, never a struggling one. You’ve cited your own experience in these situations. I’m assuming you believe experience matters. I do too.

Hiring Tippett (and giving him a short leash 3 year contract) is the kind of move you make when you want to contend now, not 3-4 years from now. And, yeah, I think hiring Tippett guaranteed the team would contend for the playoffs: success if you will. The last two coaches were net negatives for this team; results under them were worse than what they should have reasonably been.”

Fair enough and as I said I really liked the Tippett hire the moment I heard of it. I just think there were a lot of holes in the top 12 core positions and that filling more than two of those holes in any one season is usually as much as can be hoped for. Many teams don’t move forward by even one core position per season. This is why I find it remarkable that a) the goalies worked reasonably well b) three kids from Bakersfield cam in and performed at a high level, c) the shotgun fixed the PK and fourth line pretty well d) chemistry with Nuge-Leon-Yamomoto was almost instantaneous. It’s not surprising to me that some of these things worked. It is surprising to me that they all did.

“Holland points to this when he says “When you’ve got Connor McDavid, the window is now”. Because, yeah, that’s RE when you have CMD. Tippett isn’t a negative for this team. He’s coached struggling teams that had barely enough talent to compete. He seems to prefer building up his players; a favorite quote of his is put players in a position where they can succeed, another is the lovely you have to find ways to stay in a game. He seems direct, sincere, and plain spoken. And he’s been out of the league two years. A brush with coaching mortality as it were. He shows up hungry and the contract makes sure he stays hungry. Holland removed a negative and brought in a positive. More than enough to have the team contend.”

Totally agree. The coaching has been a joy to watch.

“(The opportunity knocking bit was after the Persson injury in TC.)”

My mistake. Old memory. I knew it was the result of an injury and thought it was Larsson’s.