The Fifth Round

by Lowetide

Ethan Bear made the opening night lineup and spent the regular season carving out an NHL job in the upper echelons of the Oilers defensive depth chart. He played in 71 games, scored 5-16-21 and made every scout who argued for him a winner. Here’s a little nugget: Bear is the first fifth-round pick to play 60+ NHL games as a rookie for the Oilers in a season since Jason Chimera in 2002-03 (Miro Satan also managed it in 1995-96). It’s rare, and very valuable.

THE ATHLETIC

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

If you’re not a subscriber to The Athletic, click on the link for a free 30-day trial. Inside the story above are links to all of my draft articles this spring.

THE FIFTH ROUND SINCE 2010

  • 2010: Tyler Bunz [1] (Steve Tambellini) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2011: Martin Gernat (Steve Tambellini) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2012: Joey Laleggia (Steve Tambellini) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2013: Evan Campbell (Craig MacTavish) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2014: Liam Coughlin (Craig MacTavish) (Stu MacGregor)
  • 2015: Ethan Bear [89] (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)
  • 2016: Dylan Wells (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)
  • 2016: Graham McPhee (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)
  • 2017: Kirill Maksimov (Peter Chiarelli) (Bob Green)

Bear is the only fifth round pick in the decade who played for the Oilers beyond the one game by Bunz.

OILERS NHL GAMES, BY ROUND 2010’s

  • First Round: 3,281
  • Second Round: 487
  • Third Round: 321
  • Fourth Round: 718
  • Fifth Round: 90

The fourth round in the 2010’s (Tobias Rieder, Erik Gustafsson, Caleb Jones) is going to put the boots to the second (Tyler Pitlick, Martin Marincin) unless Tyler Benson, Ryan McLeod and Raphael Lavoie blossom in the NHL. The third round (Jujhar Khaira, Anton Slepyshev) badly needs Dmitri Samorukov to play 1,000 games.

PROGRESS

I think most of us agree that Kirill Maksimov is a legit NHL prospect despite the fact he was drafted in the fifth round. He scored 21 goals in his draft year, then 34 and 40 in his two post-draft campaigns. This year, in the AHL, he scored just five goals. Here are the rookie even-strength scoring totals for Oilers AHL forwards from 2010-19, with players 100 NHL games or more in bold:

  1. Toni Rajala 2012-13: 12 in 46 games (.261 goals per game)
  2. Cooper Marody 2018-19: 15 in 58 games (.259 goals per game)
  3. Joe Gambardella 2017-18: 12 in 50 games (.240 goals per game)
  4. Tyler Benson 2018-19: 13 in 68 games (.191 goals per game)
  5. Anton Slepyshev 2015-16: nine in 49 games (.184 goals per game)
  6. Jesse Puljujarvi 2016-17: seven in 39 games (.179 goals per game)
  7. Marco Roy 2015-16: seven in 42 games (.167 goals per game)
  8. Hunter Tremblay 2011-12: 11 in 68 games (.162 goals per game)
  9. Bogdan Yakimov 2014-15: nine in 57 games (.158 goals per game)
  10. Milan Kytnar 2010-11: 12 in 78 games (.154 goals per game)
  11. Teemu Hartikainen 2010-11: 10 in 66 games (.152 goals per game)
  12. Kailer Yamamoto 2018-19: four in 27 games (.148 goals per game)
  13. Ryan Kuffner 2019-20: five in 36 games (.137 goals per game)
  14. Chris VandeVelde 2010-11: nine in 67 games (.134 goals per game)
  15. Tanner House 2011-12: eight in 68 games (.118 goals per game)
  16. Andrew Miller 2013-14: six in 52 games (.115 goals per game)
  17. Travis Ewanyk 2013-14: seven in 68 games (.103 goals per game)
  18. Kellen Jones 2014-15: five in 49 games (.102 goals per game)
  19. Phil Cornet 2010-11: six in 60 games (.100 goals per game)
  20. Curtis Hamilton 2011-12: four in 41 games (.098 goals per game)
  21. Ryan Martindale 2012-13: four in 41 games (.098 goals per game)
  22. Cam Hebig 2018-19: six in 64 games (.093 goals per game)
  23. Ryan McLeod 2019-20: five in 56 games (.089 goals per game)
  24. Patrick Russell 2016-17: six in 68 games (.088 goals per game)
  25. Tyer Vesel 2018-19: five in 61 games (.082 goals per game)
  26. Jujhar Khaira 2014-15: four in 51 games (.078 goals per game)
  27. Mitchell Moroz 2014-15: five in 66 games (.076 goals per game)
  28. Kirill Maksimov 2019-20: four in 53 games (.075 goals per game)
  29. Tyler Pitlick 2011-12: four in 62 games (.065 goals per game)
  30. Kyle Platzer 2015-16: three in 48 games (.063 goals per game)
  31. Kale Kessy 2013-14: two in 54 games (.037 goals per game)

So the lesson of staring at Maksimov’s rookie scoring total in the AHL is the same as the lesson of Tyler Pitlick, Jujhar Khaira and Chris VandeVelde. Quoting “Farm Workers”, my annual look at minor league players: “Daniel Cleary, Fernando Pisani and Jason Chimera used the AHL as a stepping stone, grinding their skills into a (close to) mistake free two-way game while learning to score enough to stay in the lineup. These are the players you’re looking for.”

Kirill Maksimov can penalty kill and he can score. He’s got some things to learn and he’ll need to catch a break if he’s going to spend a prolonged period on an NHL scoring line. Between Cleary, Pisani and Chimera, there were no 50-point seasons and just one over 45 points (Cleary). Role players with utility are very useful for NHL teams. Maksimov could be one.

OILERS DRAFT PICKS OVER 7OGP IN ROOKIE SEASON

  • Jari Kurri 1980-81 75, 32-43-75
  • Paul Coffey 1980-81 74, 9-23-32
  • Jaroslav Pouzar 1982-83 74, 15-18-33
  • Raimo Summanen 1985-86 73, 19-18-37
  • Geoff Smith 1989-90 74, 4-11-15
  • Jason Arnott 1993-94 78, 33-35-68
  • Tom Poti 1998-99 73, 5-16-21
  • Sam Gagner 2007-08 79, 13-36-49
  • Andrew Cogliano 2007-08 82, 18-27-45
  • Magnus Paajarvi 2010-11 80, 15-19-34
  • Ethan Bear 2019-20 71, 5-16-21

Just 11 players have managed it, and Bear was only the second man in the 2010’s to accomplish it.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

Lowdown starts at 10 this morning, TSN1260. Carlan Gay, Director of Partnerships and Multimedia for NBA Global Editions, will join us to talk about the NBA’s return. Daniel Gallen from Penn Live will drop in at 11 to discuss Drew Brees and his last 24 hours. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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OriginalPouzar

*knock knock* – I believe that is the phrase Coach T. uses when talking about Bear and how opportunity knocked and he grabbed it in training camp.

Can Krill Maskimov be another 5th round gem? The man has a responsible two-way game, can PK, can be aggresive and has a lethal shot. Big second year pro for him coming up – time to find a way to create time and space for yourself Krill – to use those offensive weapons. You should have more “offensive” linemates, and “offensive” in a good way.

OriginalPouzar

One has to think that the Oilers will draft a forward given the depth of highly produtive skill in the first round and the likelihood of a “top 10 talent” forward being available.

Then again, we thought this last season and Broberg was the name called.

I anticipate a forward but we know that Kenny will pick who he thinks will best help this team contend yearly until his retirement and after.

Hitman77

OriginalPouzar:
One has to think that the Oilers will draft a forward given the depth of highly produtive skill in the first round and the likelihood of a “top 10 talent” forward being available.

Then again, we thought this last season and Broberg was the name called.

I anticipate a forward but we know that Kenny will pick who he thinks will best help this team contend yearly until his retirement and after.

Unless the d-man is Jamie Drysdale, who I think will be drafted in the top 5, I’m praying Holland drafts a forward with our first pick.

JJS

I generally agree with drafting the BPA however it has to fit into an overarching strategic plan/needs analysis projecting out 5 years.

The Oil have a great d-man pipeline in place and there are only 6 d-men on the bench every game.

But the team desperately requires more scoring forwards. This should be our priority in the first round this year and possibly next.

The caveat would be a rushing defenseman with calm feet/hockey sense. This player type (Quinn, Makar) can be an extraordinary difference maker and impact games more than a scoring winger.

dustrock

Conversation in LT’s Athletic piece on picking a d-man.

If Askarov is there, do you take him?

Would it make a difference if Holland grabbed a 2nd round pick through trade?

I say if you think Askarov is the next Vasilevskiy then I run up to the podium and take him. Solving a position like goalie for a decade would be incredible.

He won’t be there at 20, but what if the Oilers pick at 15?

Rondo

Drew Brees Attacked for Saying he would never Disrespect American Flag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSqxOY9HUio

OriginalPouzar

Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
2h
CBA discussions between the NHL and NHLPA have been woven into the daily planning for resumption of play, however, sources say the two sides have intensified talks on a CBA extension with escrow, salary cap and HRR main discussion points. A stabilized escrow system is key.

stephen sheps

Rondo,

https://sports.yahoo.com/drew-brees-apologizes-for-comments-about-kneeling-protests-i-stand-with-the-black-community-124049826.html

Drew Brees reflecting on getting it wrong, listening to his team mates and a variety of other folks, recognizing that it’s not about the flag and owning up to his mistakes.

Harpers Hair

Rick Dhaliwal (@DhaliwalSports) Tweeted:
Hearing D Nikita Nesterov is leaving CSKA in Russia and is being linked to the LA Kings.

Nothing new on the #Canucks and D Nikita Tryamkin, still in a holding pattern.

godot10

dustrock:
Conversation in LT’s Athletic piece on picking a d-man.

If Askarov is there, do you take him?

Would it make a difference if Holland grabbed a 2nd round pick through trade?

I say if you think Askarov is the next Vasilevskiy then I run up to the podium and take him. Solving a position like goalie for a decade would be incredible.

He won’t be there at 20, but what if the Oilers pick at 15?

One only picks a goaltender in the top 5, or starting in the 3rd round (late 2nd round may be acceptable).

The only goaltenders who are not suspects will be selected in the top 5.

One should wait till the 3rd round to draft suspects.

Elgin R

Bear was incredible this season for a rookie! Absolutely saved the season after Larsson went down. Even high-draft defencemen such as Nurse and Klefbom usually take 3 – 4 years post draft to be effective (Hughes and Makar are exceptions).

Oilers are not drafting high enough to take an exceptional defencemen, so concentrate on the highest-skill forward available. It is not uncommon for teams to take D higher than the rankings suggest (see 2019). This should push a good forward down to us. Holland / Wright should place emphasis on speed and skill for their BFA (best forward available) list. I am hoping that Seth Jarvis is available when the Oilers pick in the first round.

Hitman77

dustrock:
Conversation in LT’s Athletic piece on picking a d-man.

If Askarov is there, do you take him?

Would it make a difference if Holland grabbed a 2nd round pick through trade?

I say if you think Askarov is the next Vasilevskiy then I run up to the podium and take him. Solving a position like goalie for a decade would be incredible.

He won’t be there at 20, but what if the Oilers pick at 15?

If goalies are pure voodoo, I’d be hesitant drafting a goalie in the first round. Since 2005, I only count Price and Vasilevsky as first round picks that turned out to be studs. Samsonov of Washington has the potential to be but too early to tell with him.

Really hard to say with Askarov. Some scouts have said he’s the best prospect to come along since Price.

If it was me, whether we’re picking at 15 or 20, I’d still shoot for a forward.

Eh Team

Elgin R: Bear was incredible this season for a rookie! Absolutely saved the season after Larsson went down. Even high-draft defencemen such as Nurse and Klefbom usually take 3 – 4 years post draft to be effective (Hughes and Makar are exceptions).

Marino and Fox are two more who had great rookie seasons

Rondo

stephen sheps,

I think Drew was pressured to apologize or face the wrath of the NFL and the black community.

Trevor457

My baby boy Ethan was born two days ago. I was pushing for Connor or Leon, but the wife didn’t want him named after an Oiler. Good thing she doesn’t know who Ethan Bear is!

stephen sheps

Rondo,

that’s a disappointingly cynical take. you might be right, you might not. we’ll never really know.

Material Elvis

Rondo:
stephen sheps,

I think Drew was pressured to apologize or face the wrath of the NFL and the black community.

The apology seems sincere and heart-felt, not another right wing conspiracy theory.

jp

Oilers vs. Wings since Holland’s past is relevant obviously for the Oilers now. FWIW no one drafted in 2019 for either team has played in the NHL.

Oilers NHL Games, by round 2010s:
First Round: 3,281 (11 picks)
Second Round: 487 (10)
Third Round: 321 (15)
Fourth Round: 718 (12)
Fifth Round: 90 (9)
Sixth Round : 174 (10)
Seventh Round: 0 (11)

Red Wings NHL Games, by round 2010s:
First Round: 1,369 (9 picks, 2 in 2018, none in 2011 or 2012)
Second Round: 1,352 (15)
Third Round: 412 (14)
Fourth Round: 500 (10)
Fifth Round: 263 (10)
Sixth Round : 0 (12)
Seventh Round: 121 (12)

Rondo

stephen sheps,

Agree

Elgin R

Eh Team,

Eh Team: Marino and Fox are two more who had great rookie seasons

Agreed. Marino, Fox and Bear approximately the same age (22 or 23) and all took the long road. Hopefully they all have long careers. Getting just a 6th for Marino still sucks.

ArmchairGM

Trevor457:
My baby boy Ethan was born two days ago.I was pushing for Connor or Leon, but the wife didn’t want him named after an Oiler.Good thing she doesn’t know who Ethan Bear is!

Nice one! and congratulations!

Rondo

Material Elvis,

Just because you think you should stand for the Anthem doesn’t make you a racist. But that is how the narrative goes.

Hitman77

I wonder if there’s a trade involving Jesse + pick/prospect to the Rangers for one of their young goalies. It’ll solve drafting for one.

Chelios is a Dinosaur

Rondo,

That’s by and large not what people say. The royal you is not invoked. People say Colin Kapernick or someone else taking a knee, specifically, for specific reasons must stand. That’s pretty on the face racist.

I don’t think any anthem should be played before a sports match. When I say that, imagine the vitriol I put up with.

Harpers Hair

Elgin R:
Bear was incredible this season for a rookie!Absolutely saved the season after Larsson went down.Even high-draft defencemen such as Nurse and Klefbom usually take 3 – 4 years post draft to be effective (Hughes and Makar are exceptions).

Oilers are not drafting high enough to take an exceptional defencemen, so concentrate on the highest-skill forward available.It is not uncommon for teams to take D higher than the rankings suggest (see 2019).This should push a good forward down to us.Holland / Wright should place emphasis on speed and skill for their BFA (best forward available) list. I am hoping that Seth Jarvis is available when the Oilers pick in the first round.

Actually….the 3-4 years doesn’t account for the reality of young D making an impact.

Here is a list of young D that are impact players taken in the last 5 drafts who had an immediate impact with one year or two of being drafted:

Noah Hanifin
Ivan Provorov
Mikael Sergachev
Charlie McAvoy
Jacob Chychrun
Samuel Girard
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Rasmus Dahlin
Quinn Hughes
Adam Boqvist

While you will certainly find others who take longer to develop will indeed be impact players, the Hughes/Makar cohort are becoming much more common as the league trends increasingly younger.

defmn

Trevor457:
My baby boy Ethan was born two days ago.I was pushing for Connor or Leon, but the wife didn’t want him named after an Oiler.Good thing she doesn’t know who Ethan Bear is!

Congratulations. Sleep deprivation is a character building exercise. 😉

Rondo

Chelios is a Dinosaur,

So why were people upset with Drew, he said nothing about black people?

N64

Chelios is a Dinosaur: I don’t think any anthem should be played before a sports match. When I say that, imagine the vitriol I put up with.

Actually I’d strongly prefer people stand for national anthems. But if they can’t or won’t then I’d rather not have anthems at sports matches. Barking mad and counterproductive to fight over symbols of unity.

defmn

Harpers Hair: Actually….the 3-4 years doesn’t account for the reality of young D making an impact.

Here is a list of young D that are impact players taken in the last 5 drafts who had an immediate impact with one year or two of being drafted:

Noah Hanifin
Ivan Provorov
Mikael Sergachev
Charlie McAvoy
Jacob Chychrun
Samuel Girard
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Rasmus Dahlin
Quinn Hughes
Adam Boqvist

While you will certainly find others who take longer to develop will indeed be impact players, the Hughes/Makar cohort are becoming much more common as the league trends increasingly younger.

The role of defenders the biggest change in the game since the butterfly for goalies?

Klima's_Bucket

Who would you rather have over their career?

Hughes or Heiskanen

Harpers Hair

defmn: The role of defenders the biggest change in the game since the butterfly for goalies?

Yes…I think that may be true.

The “stay at home” defensemen is pretty much a dinosaur and getting offence from the D whether in actual point production or puck moving ability is increasing in importance.

ArmchairGM

Rondo:
Material Elvis,

Just because you think you should stand for the Anthem doesn’t make you a racist. But that is how the narrative goes.

Why does America hate itself?

defmn

ArmchairGM: Why does America hate itself?

Oh, oh. I know the answer to this but it is quite long and this is not a political philosophy blog. 😉

Material Elvis

Rondo:
Chelios is a Dinosaur,

So why were people upset with Drew, he said nothing about black people?

Kneeling during the anthem was a way to protest racial injustice and police brutality towards black people. It had nothing to do with the military or disrespect towards the flag.

Rondo

Material Elvis,

Last post for me on this subject. Some facts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piwaBO6U43U

JimmyV1965

Harpers Hair: Actually….the 3-4 years doesn’t account for the reality of young D making an impact.

Here is a list of young D that are impact players taken in the last 5 drafts who had an immediate impact with one year or two of being drafted:

Noah Hanifin
Ivan Provorov
Mikael Sergachev
Charlie McAvoy
Jacob Chychrun
Samuel Girard
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Rasmus Dahlin
Quinn Hughes
Adam Boqvist

While you will certainly find others who take longer to develop will indeed be impact players, the Hughes/Makar cohort are becoming much more common as the league trends increasingly younger.

This list is begging for context. Some on this list should not have played so early in their career. Others were paired with great dmen who could shelter their young partner. Some regressed in their second season. And some were on great teams who dominated puck possession. I only see four dmen on this list that don’t fit in the above categories.

JimmyV1965

In regards to the anthem, people should do whatever the hell they want. Freedom of expression is what makes countries great. Not symbols.

N64

Material Elvis: Kneeling during the anthem

~ Whatever happened to separation of Church and State? ~

NFL can highlight important message in dozens of ways, but all of this just highlights that National Anthems don’t belong at sporting events.

Harpers Hair

JimmyV1965: This list is begging for context. Some on this list should not have played so early in their career. Others were paired with great dmen who could shelter their young partner. Some regressed in their second season.And some were on great teams who dominated puck possession. I only see four dmen on this list that don’t fit in the above categories.

Please provide the context for EACH player…then we’ll talk.

I think you’ll find that virtually every one of them earned their spot and have never looked back.

Ribs

Material Elvis: It had nothing to do with the military or disrespect towards the flag.

It may have not meant to be disrespectful to those things, but it was.

Mostly bad timing on Brees’ part. There is a movement happening and anything that detracts from it is going to be (rightly) criticized.

rogue

Drew Brees said NOTHING wrong in his first video. He did not diss anyone. We have come to the point where common sense and truth does not matter. Instead of facing the issues, lets just label everyone racist, just because.

Harpers Hair

Elliotte Friedman (@FriedgeHNIC) Tweeted:
The NHL Playoffs will not be bracketed, but re-seeded after every round. Qualifying will be best-of-five. All other rounds will be best-of-seven.

Material Elvis

N64: ~ Whatever happened to separation of Church and State? ~

NFL can highlight important message in dozens of ways, but all of this just highlights that National Anthems don’t belong at sporting events.

I’m down with canceling the pregame anthems. Especially in the NHL; they drag out the start of games with anthems and ceremonies. If the start time is 7:00pm, then drop the puck at 7:00pm. The Leafs are the worst for this.

N64

Ribs: Mostly bad timing on Brees’ part. There is a movement happening and anything that detracts from it is going to be (rightly) criticized.

wikipedia:

Exceptionalism is the perception or belief that a species, country, society, institution, movement, individual, or time period is “exceptional”

Eh Team

Harpers Hair: Yes…I think that may be true.
The “stay at home” defensemen is pretty much a dinosaur and getting offence from the D whether in actual point production or puck moving ability is increasing in importance.

Hockey is finally moving the way of soccer- well, soccer changed a long time ago- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_Football#:~:text=Total%20football%20(Dutch%3A%20totaalvoetbal),other%20player%20in%20a%20team.

Players changing position interchangeably. Well, maybe Bobby Orr started it in hockey, but old time hockey was everyone staying in their positions moving up and down their wings.

Harpers Hair

N64: ~ Whatever happened to separation of Church and State? ~

NFL can highlight important message in dozens of ways, but all of this just highlights that National Anthems don’t belong at sporting events.

I’m old enough to remember when we started the school day with the anthem and it was played in theatres before the movie start.

I’ve long thought it’s an anachronism long past it’s best before date at sporting events.

stephen sheps

Rondo,

Sorry to do this LT… I really want to leave this alone but I don’t think I can.

To call back to another old-timey poster with the same “first name” as me, I’m not sure facts mean what you think it means.

Rondo, you’ve been posting here a really long time and I appreciate your contributions, but please do your homework and try to learn a bit, put yourself in the position of the people who are living this reality and hear what they have to say and why they’re saying it rather than making it a partisan, left vs. right issue. Before you post an interview from 2016 to try and prove your point in a 2020 context, perhaps take the time to look at a bit more of the available data and see what that data suggests – numbers aren’t partisan.

Credit where it’s due, the fellow in the interview was right when he claimed that more whites are shot by police than African-Americans. What he fails to acknowledge is the ratio of white people vs. non-white in the US. Given that African-Americans make up only 13% of the population, there is a disproportionate number of folks shot and killed by cops relative to the size of the population. When he speaks about the crisis of families, he’s also not wrong. However he fails to account for the overrepresentation of Black men in the prison system, the role the war on drugs plays in this, the disproportionate number of Black men in jail for small weed charges given mandatory minimums, the effect of single-family homes on education and income (especially as in the US, public schools are funded based on property taxes). And yet this guy thinks that there aren’t structural issues at play?

Here are some current numbers specific to police violence for you and anyone else who might be interested to have a look at. I’m including a few sources in order to make sure I’m actually showing my work as well as links to their methodologies. My hope is that as a community here, we can look at these numbers with the same sort of nuance, curiosity and intelligence that we apply to conversations around analytics in the sport that brought us all to this place, and try to see the stories these numbers tell.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/aboutthedata

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

stephen sheps

Harpers Hair: I’ve long thought it’s an anachronism long past it’s best before date at sporting events.

Me too.

Fun fact, NFL players were only required to come out and stand on the sidelines for the anthem in 2009, right around the same time the NFL started to take sponsorship money for what the late senator John McCain referred to as “paid patriotism” events in a 2015 report on Department of Defence spending, something the senator was not in favour of at all. Prior to 2009, it was up to the individual player if they wanted to come out before the anthem or after. Special games like the Super Bowl and 9/11 tributes on national broadcasts like MNF were the exception rather than the norm.

dustrock

Brees is rightly getting called out for a boneheaded, jingoistic statement. The faster Americans realize we’re waaaaay past the idea of Manifest Destiny, we’ll all be better for it.

When you spend decades glorifying the military above any other part of your society and then spend decades trying to turn the police into the military, here’s where we end up.

You can disagree with Kaepernick taking a knee as a soft protest that literally harms not a single soul. But the idea that he was blackballed from working in the NFL because of this stance is insane to me, and it shows that people talk a lot about ideals of freedom and democracy, but in practice, we all want everyone to stay in the lane that has been chosen for them.

If Kaepernick taking a knee fills you with rage, I’d examine that feeling and maybe self-reflect.

When Rich White Guy Drew Brees toes the company line of not “disrespecting the flag” (whatever the fuck that even means) after weeks of violent reprisal against protestors and journalists by the people who are literally supposed to be serving and protecting them, it damn well comes across as tone-deaf a the very least.

JimmyV1965

stephen sheps:
Rondo,

Sorry to do this LT… I really want to leave this alone but I don’t think I can.

To call back to another old-timey poster with the same “first name” as me, I’m not sure facts mean what you think it means.

Rondo, you’ve been posting here a really long time and I appreciate your contributions, but please do your homework and try to learn a bit, put yourself in the position of the people who are living this reality and hear what they have to say and why they’re saying it rather than making it a partisan, left vs. right issue. Before you post an interview from 2016 to try and prove your point in a 2020 context, perhaps take the time to look at a bit more of the available data and see what that data suggests – numbers aren’t partisan.

Credit where it’s due, the fellow in the interview was right when he claimed that more whites are shot by police than African-Americans. What he fails to acknowledge is the ratio of white people vs. non-White in the US. Given that African-Americans make up only 13% of the population, there is a disproportionate number of folks shot and killed by cops relative to the size of the population. When he speaks about the crisis of families, he also not wrong. However he fails to account for the overrepresentation of Black men in the prison system, the role the war on drugs plays in this, the number of people in jail on small weed charges given mandatory minimums, the effect of single-family homes on education and income (especially as in the US, public schools are funded based on property taxes). And yet this guy thinks that there aren’t structural issues at play?

Here are some current numbers specific to police violence for you and anyone else who might be interested to have a look at. I’m including a few sources in order to make sure I’m actually showing my work as well as links to their methodologies. My hope is that as a community here, we can look at these numbers with the same sort of nuance, curiosity and intelligence that we apply to conversations around analytics in the sport that brought us all to this place, and try to see the stories these numbers tell.

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/aboutthedata

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

I’ve looked at those numbers. What shocked me was the total number of people killed by police in the States. For context, there’s 15-25 each year in Canada.