I’m Just Mad About Safin

For some reason, don’t know why, the Oilers always draft two players inside my top 50 (or so) ‘Here Comes the Sun’ every year. Will it happen again?

THE ATHLETIC!

The Athletic Edmonton features a fabulous cluster of stories (some linked below, some on the site). Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. Proud to be part of The Athletic, check it out here.

THE 2015 DRAFT

  • 1. C Connor McDavid, Erie Otters (OHL) All our trials, lord, soon be over.
  • 38. D Ethan Bear, Seattle Thunderbirds (WHL) Mobile defender, very good shot.

The Oilers grabbed Bear at No. 124 and although it took awhile the 2015 draft looks like a winner five years later. My list is based on skill and offensive ability (Bear’s bio talked about great passing ability and a plus shot) so I had him mid-second round despite having only a 13.6 NHLE (which is on par with Justin Barron’s number this season).

THE 2016 DRAFT

  • 3. R Jesse Puljujarvi, Karpat (Sm-Liiga): Big, fast, rambunctious.
  • 34. L Tyler Benson, Vancouver Giants (WHL). Physical two-way forward. Injured a lot.

Oilers had their second round pick in this draft so no surprises. Filip Berglund, who I ranked No. 61, was drafted No. 91 by Edmonton. I’m going to be writing on this draft in the coming days, this next season is No. 5 post-draft and the organization badly needs closure on several levels.

THE 2017 DRAFT

  • 11. R Kailer Yamamoto, Spokane Chiefs (WHL). Smart, elusive, offensive. NHLE (36.2).
  • 52. L Ostap Safin, Sparta Praha (Cze). Big forward, good skater, has plus skills. Nice range.

Safin is the subject of today’s conversation (below) but it’s interesting that the Oilers took Stuart Skinner and Dmitri Samorukov before taking Safin at No. 115. He’s a talented player, getting him there was a terrific result.

THE 2018 DRAFT

  • 8. RD Evan Bouchard, London Knights (OHL). Big numbers, intelligent two-way D.
  • 25. LC Ryan McLeod, Mississauga Steelheads (OHL). Size, speed, skill. One of the oldest players in draft.

Similar to the 2016 draft, Oilers choose once in each of the first and second rounds and select players who were ranked in the range. Both of these men are on track for NHL careers.

THE 2019 DRAFT

  • 16. LD Philip Broberg, AIK (Allsvenskan). He’s big and can skate like the wind, while also displaying puck moving ability. Offense may be shy, but Swedish blue can fool you.
  • 26. RC Raphael Lavoie, Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL). Adam Sherren: “Lavoie is a big physical force who is that old fashioned power forward.” He is a strong skater and has a goal-scorer’s touch. Aggressive, a force.

I honestly don’t remember hearing Broberg as a strong option for the first round pick before Ken Holland’s arrival, but the fleet Swedish defenseman got plenty of mention in sports coverage after Holland landed in the Capital. I think fans would have been far angrier about the Broberg selection if not for Lavoie arriving in the second round. After that, Holland’s reputation grew and remains on the upswing at this time.

OSTAP SAFIN

I’ve been spending extra time this spring on wingers who can skate and also find themselves in the Oilers organization. If you play the wing and have 10 fingers and toes, you have a gigantic opportunity with Edmonton.

Safin can skate but even on draft day there were some things that teams didn’t like. Red Line Report: “He’s huge and has a super heavy wrister that overpowers goalies but isn’t tough and shows no intensity.”

Safin is 6.05, 205 and shoots left while being listed most often on right wing (common for Czech forwards). His big career moment came in 2018-19 when he couldn’t get on the ice much due to injury. The saddest damn thing was watching him play deep into 2019 spring with the Halifax Mooseheads (23 games) as a shadow of his former self offensively (two assists).

The Oilers sent him to the ECHL for 2019-20 and he performed well (54, 16-19-35, .648 points per game) and got some power-play time (4-7-11) with the Wichita Thunder.

Clearly he’ll need to spend next season in the AHL and perhaps that isn’t a mountain he can climb. I look at the current minor-league depth chart and sincerely believe he should be able to make the Condors as a top-nine forward. The big man can skate, has a shot good enough to beat goaltenders and a depth chart crying for someone to step forward.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning with plenty to chat about starting at 10, TSN 1260. Daniel Nugent-Bowman from The Athletic joins us at 10:20 to discuss Cooper Marody’s song for Colby Cave, plus Edmonton as a hub city. Reid Fowler from Draft Kings is in at 11 to talk PGA Tour and Jonah Birenbaum from The Score talks about the mlb draft and how the Blue Jays landed another enormous bat. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

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132 Responses to "I’m Just Mad About Safin"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    Damn – we say that missing material time in the last few years of junior really hurts development and I think we saw that with Ostaf Safin – barely played in his draft plus 1 year and I think it set him back.

    Decent season in the ECHL last year but the fact he didn’t play a single AHL game makes it a down arrow for me.

    Hopefully he forms some chemistry with the likes of a Kuffner and/or Hamlin on a secondary scoring line for the Condors this year and re-establishes himself as a real prospect.

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    Its interesting that we read one needs to wait five years to grade a draft – boom, in his 5th year we see the Ethan Bear breakout – same with Caleb Jones (well, next year might be his real breakout year but it started this year, in my opinion).

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    “I think fans would have been far angrier about the Broberg selection if not for Lavoie arriving in the second round. After that, Holland’s reputation grew and remains on the upswing at this time.”

    I think Ken Holland “read the draft” well and anticipated a run on d-men in the first round ahead of their projections and anticipated a few higher skilled “1st round pedigree” forwards available early in the 2nd.

  4. OriginalPouzar says:

    I look at the draft picks listed above from every year starting 2015 and almost all of them have a realistic chance to impact the Oilers lineup going forward – Jesse Puljujarvi and Ostaf Safin probably the least likely but it would be a surprise if any of the others are not real NHL players within 5 years of their draft (some much earlier like Bouchard).

    Great arrows (including on some not “listed” but “mentioned” like Samorukov and Berglund.

    Great piece this morning Al.

  5. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Interesting line up you’ve charted for BAK. Is that how you’d roll out the lines? I have a bit different take on my CapFriendly roster. I keep McLeod and Maksimov together, and have the third line as a veteran-heavy neutralizing line able to carry a rookie. That way it leaves the top two lines for premium development time. If OS forces the issue and earns more ice time, so much the better.

    Benson – Marody – Lavoie
    Kuffner – McLeod – Maksimov
    Gambardella – Malone – Safin

    Josh Currie would also look good on RW with the third line, if Safin is unable to fill the role.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    Chris Johnston saying that he’s hearing the NHL is targeting July 10 for the start of camp s/t agreement from the NHLPA.

    We knew/know that July 10 was the earliest camp would start but previous intel was they were targeting July 14th so this is a bit of move-up maybe.

    Of course that “NHLPA agreement” will include a massive amount of logistics and parameters

  7. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Chris Johnston saying that he’s hearing the NHL is targeting July 10 for the start of camp s/t agreement from the NHLPA.

    We knew/know that July 10 was the earliest camp would start but previous intel was they were targeting July 14th so this is a bit of move-up maybe.

    Of course that “NHLPA agreement” will include a massive amount of logistics and parameters

    are they still looking at 3 weeks for training camps? 3 weeks from July 10th would put the date at JULY 31st …

    OP would you guess that games would start Aug 1 or 2nd ??

    just curious on your thoughts on the timeline

    Thanks for all the updates

  8. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    “For some reason, don’t know why, the Oilers always draft two players inside my top 50 (or so) ‘Here Comes the Sun’ every year. “…

    Could it be they are paying attention to your work OR using similar models OR just “coincidence”??

    One of these days they should start paying you…;)

  9. OriginalPouzar says:

    Whoa – NHL and NHLPA have officially agreed for camps to open July 10 (assuming the health and safety is place).

    Now, its important to set the damn hubs so players and teams know about potential international travel after camp and what not.

  10. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    I would argue that a complete set of fingers and toes is not necessarily a requirement to make the Oilers winger line-up these days…;)

    EDIT: Unless of course you meant 10 digits of a total 20

    Maybe Safin will re-gain his earlier trajectory under the coaching of Jay W. et al.

  11. Lowetide says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Interesting line up you’ve charted for BAK.Is that how you’d roll out the lines?I have a bit different take on my CapFriendly roster.I keep McLeod and Maksimov together, and have the third line as a veteran-heavy neutralizing line able to carry a rookie.That way it leaves the top two lines for premium development time.If OS forces the issue and earns more ice time, so much the better.

    Benson – Marody – Lavoie
    Kuffner – McLeod – Maksimov
    Gambardella – Malone – Safin

    Josh Currie would also look good on RW with the third line, if Safin is unable to fill the role.

    No, just lining up depth charts with no emphasis on lines.

  12. Lowetide says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    “For some reason, don’t know why, the Oilers always draft two players inside my top 50 (or so) ‘Here Comes the Sun’ every year. “…

    Could it be they are paying attention to your work OR using similar models OR just “coincidence”??

    One of these days they should start paying you…;)

    Lol. I wish. I do notice a trend though and my list does uncover it. Edmonton seems to draft skill early, then work on defence (Niemelainen, Cairns, etc) shutdown and then return later to skill. It goes back to Stu MacGregor and maybe it’s just coincidence but it happens often.

  13. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lets assume 3 weeks for camp (2-3 weeks has been the generally advised timeline and I think it’ll be closer to the later) – that puts the end of camp on August 31.

    League has previously advised there will be a week after camp once the teams get to their hubs for two exhibition games each, etc.

    If all goes as scheduled, I think we’ll see “real games” start around August 8-10.

  14. OriginalPouzar says:

    For any training camps that are being held in Canada, under current rules, players that are out of country will need to get back to Canada prior to apx June 26 in order to put in their 14 days.

    We know that organizations do not want their players having to sit at home for 2 weeks at this point so, hopefully, there is some guidance on the hubs and any potential Canadian government relaxation of the rule.

    For example, if players were allowed to do their 14 days in a cohort that included going to the rink and back home and only being at the rink with the same designated people – that would allow players to skate and workout during phase 2 while putting in their 14 days.

  15. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    For any training camps that are being held in Canada, under current rules, players that are out of country will need to get back to Canada prior to apx June 26 in order to put in their 14 days.

    We know that organizations do not want their players having to sit at home for 2 weeks at this point so, hopefully, there is some guidance on the hubs and any potential Canadian government relaxation of the rule.

    For example, if players were allowed to do their 14 days in a cohort that included going to the rink and back home and only being at the rink with the same designated people – that would allow players to skate and workout during phase 2 while putting in their 14 days.

    Due to international players teams will want to do training camps in the hub country for their conference. I’d expect hub cities to be announced next week.

  16. N64 says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick:
    “For some reason, don’t know why, the Oilers always draft two players inside my top 50 (or so) ‘Here Comes the Sun’ every year. “…

    Could it be they are paying attention to your work OR using similar models OR just “coincidence”??

    One of these days they should start paying you…;)

    They aren’t? Maybe they’ve been using the tip jar. 😉

  17. jtblack says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    “If all goes as scheduled, I think we’ll see “real games” start around August 8-10.”

    So does this mean I am going to have to hook up a t.v. outside for all day BBQ’s?

  18. meanashell11 says:

    jtblack:
    OriginalPouzar,

    “If all goes as scheduled, I think we’ll see “real games” start around August 8-10.”

    So does this mean I am going to have to hook up a t.v. outside for all day BBQ’s?

    I’ve done it before for the World Cup (soccer, not hockey). It’s actually kinda fun!

  19. OriginalPouzar says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Interesting line up you’ve charted for BAK.Is that how you’d roll out the lines?I have a bit different take on my CapFriendly roster.I keep McLeod and Maksimov together, and have the third line as a veteran-heavy neutralizing line able to carry a rookie.That way it leaves the top two lines for premium development time.If OS forces the issue and earns more ice time, so much the better.

    Benson – Marody – Lavoie
    Kuffner – McLeod – Maksimov
    Gambardella – Malone – Safin

    Josh Currie would also look good on RW with the third line, if Safin is unable to fill the role.

    Here is hoping they are able to get Currie signed – Holland may be trying to grind him back down to an AHL contract.

    He will be 28 by the time the NHL season starts – there is no cap on AHL salaries so perhaps Holland can entice him with a large AHL only deal to essentially finally give up his NHL dream.

  20. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack: are they still looking at 3 weeks for training camps?3 weeks from July 10th would put the date at JULY 31st …

    OP would you guess that games would start Aug 1 or 2nd ??

    just curious on your thoughts on the timeline

    Thanks for all the updates

    Add a week to that timeline as the league has stated a week after camps before the real games start.

    There will be two exhibition games per team in that week.

  21. OriginalPouzar says:

    N64: Due to international players teams will want to do training camps in the hub country for their conference. I’d expect hub cities to be announced next week.

    Perhaps but not necessarily.

    Lets say the Oilers are going to play in Columbus as their hub city.

    The team could still do camp in Edmonton if the federal government would allow a cohort application of the 14-day quarantine rule.

    Essentially allow for players to participate in stage 2 as part of the quarantine – they quarantine at home but are allowed to go to the rink to skate and use the facilities along with their group of 6.

    Klef, Larsson, Neal, etc. could all return to Canada at any time prior to June 26 and do their 14 days while participating in stage 2. They would have to adhere to all the stringent stage 2 protocols including daily testing. They would have to go straight home after – no patio, no casino, no movie theater, no golf course, etc.

    Camp then in Edmonton.

    Team then heads to Columbus for stage 4.

    If the feds allow that cohort quarantine and phase 2 participation.

  22. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack:
    OriginalPouzar,

    “If all goes as scheduled, I think we’ll see “real games” start around August 8-10.”

    So does this mean I am going to have to hook up a t.v. outside for all day BBQ’s?

    Affirmative!

    It’s going to be awesome.

  23. OriginalPouzar says:

    Per LeBrun, it seems the ultimate return to play vote will involve all 31 teams, not just 24, and it does seem it will be just the 31 NHLPA executive members voting and not the full membership:

    https://theathletic.com/1867108/2020/06/11/lebrun-training-camp-date-set-cba-talks-continue-and-paycheque-decision-delayed/

    However, that training camp start date is still subject to change if talks stall during Phase 3/4 negotiations. And while a source confirmed on Thursday that discussions for an overall agreement have commenced, the talks are still in the early stages. I think it’s safe to say both sides need at least 2-3 weeks to get through the Phase 3/4 protocol agreement — a timeline that also accounts for an NHLPA Executive Board (31 player reps) vote.

  24. dustrock says:

    NHL would be doing themselves a huge, huge favour if they can get going even 2 weeks before the NBA.

  25. dustrock says:

    Broberg seems like he’s got too good a skillset not to have an NHL career. If he’s Bouwmeester I think we have to be very happy.

    On the other hand boy oh boy could have had Kaliyev or Zegras and Lavoie in the same draft. 🙁

  26. leeinvan says:

    Still think it was a mistake taking the big Swedish D man last year.
    This team desperately needs top 6 forwards, and they have a glut of D men in their system.
    A top end forward can make the team in year two (sometimes) a D man usually takes 3-4-5 years to make the team. So if you have a glut of D men, not sure where the logic was, is this D man so much better than the next pick taken?
    Neither Klefbom, Nurse or Larsson can be considered old then you add Bear, Jones and the 3-5 D men waiting on the system, where do they all fit?
    Unless the plan was to trade a D man for a top six young forward, I’m not sure what the logic was?

  27. hunter1909 says:

    meanashell11: I’ve done it before for the World Cup (soccer, not hockey). It’s actually kinda fun!

    During the World Cup held in Japan there was supposed to be an Irish pub in North London offering “Breakfast and a Pint” at 7AM so everyone would be ready for the 11AM kickoff.

  28. hunter1909 says:

    leeinvan:
    Still think it was a mistake taking the big Swedish D man last year.
    This team desperately needs top 6 forwards, and they have a glut of D men in their system.
    A top end forward can make the team in year two (sometimes) a D man usually takes 3-4-5 years to make the team. So if you have a glut of D men, not sure where the logic was, is this D man so much better than the next pick taken?
    Neither Klefbom, Nurse or Larsson can be considered old then you add Bear, Jones and the 3-5 D men waiting on the system, where do they all fit?
    Unless the plan was to trade a D man for a top six young forward, I’m not sure what the logic was?

    Your assumptions are based on Bear stepping up, something which had yet to occur when Broberg was picked.

    Therefore, your argument fails at the first hurdle.

    No need to thank me.

  29. dustrock says:

    https://theathletic.com/1866055/2020/06/11/steve-valiquette-on-the-nhls-latest-trends-and-why-gms-should-take-note/

    Real good interview with Steve Valiquette who has his own hockey data company.

    Goals this season and last, there is one shot sequence that goes in more than any other sequence and it’s what we would call a low slot-line pass. If there’s a line that divides the ice in two and it goes from the middle of the net and stops at the top of the circles — imagine just splitting the ice in two equal parts — any pass that begins above the hash mark and is received below the hash mark from one side of the ice to the other, that shot accounted for more goals than any other shot type. 736 goals on 2,023 shots.

    The next two top scoring sequences in the NHL are actually two different types of broken plays — what we’d categorize as a mid-percentage broken play and then a high-percentage broken play. You can imagine how difficult these things are to put into context when you’re training people to watch the game the way you do.

    The simple way of saying it is that a mid-percentage broken play would be a shot that comes, delivered to the net from the point, in the air. The player in front is waving at it, trying to deflect it and it inadvertently hits someone’s elbow or shin pad and ends up in the net. That’s a mid-percentage broken play because the intent was a mid-percentage shot, an in-the-air deflection, no screen.

    A high-percentage broken play is a slot-line pass that’s intended for the receiving player. It doesn’t go through and it goes off their skate or their stick. Those went in 434 times last year. It’s neat because when you look at how the puck ends up in the net at the end of the season, the slot line is directly impacted in two of the top three sequences. If you can move the puck from one side of the ice to the other and force the other team to defend, you’re going to get more broken play goals.

  30. dustrock says:

    Oh man Valiquette just pipe this right into my veins

    Then I would look to expected goals — it’s a rate stat, per 60 minutes. At five-on-five, with the game tied, St. Louis ranks No. 4 at creating high-percentage chances. At five-on-five up by a goal, St. Louis ranks 30th at high-percentage chances and fifth at high-percentage chances against.

    Now, when I looked at that, I’m saying to myself, “Pretty neat. They don’t really go for it up a goal, they pack it in and they play defensively. They’re good at closing teams out. They don’t give up a lot. They don’t create a lot.” Then I was looking at Jordan Binnington. What I’ve always looked at with data is how a goaltender can elevate a weaker team or unravel a very good team. It’s a different sport. It’s an individual playing hockey. I never considered myself a hockey player; I was a goalie.

    At five-on-five, with the game tied, Binnington ranked No. 3 in expected goals differential — how many difficult shots he faced, how many goals he allowed, he ranked third. You can have a great technical goalie with a great physical frame, but if he doesn’t have the mindset to be able to play in those different game conditions … you can still help these people, you don’t have to trade them.

    Another interesting thing with Binnington. At six-on-five, with the other goalie pulled, he was No. 4 in expected goals differential. Five-on-five, up one goal, St. Louis is good at clamping down, not giving up many quality scoring opportunities. And why is that important? Because Binnington is one of the league’s best at stopping the shots he should stop in those conditions.

  31. dustrock says:

    I won’t post anymore but the whole article is incredible.

    Guess what percentage of clear shots from the slot go in? 7%.

    Auston Matthews had 41 clear shots from the slot. How many goals? 4.

  32. Melvis says:

    dustrock: any pass that begins above the hash mark and is received below the hash mark from one side of the ice to the other, that shot accounted for more goals than any other shot type. 736 goals on 2,023 shots.

    Small sample size and not much of a trend if Ovi was good for about 600 of those🙂
    ok…back to that Callaway 3 wood. Sweet club, that.

  33. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Perhaps but not necessarily.

    Lets say the Oilers are going to play in Columbus as their hub city.

    The team could still do camp in Edmonton if the federal government would allow a cohort application of the 14-day quarantine rule.

    Essentially allow for players to participate in stage 2 as part of the quarantine – they quarantine at home but are allowed to go to the rink to skate and use the facilities along with their group of 6.

    Klef, Larsson, Neal, etc. could all return to Canada at any time prior to June 26 and do their 14 days while participating in stage 2.They would have to adhere to all the stringent stage 2 protocols including daily testing.They would have to go straight home after – no patio, no casino, no movie theater, no golf course, etc.

    Camp then in Edmonton.

    Team then heads to Columbus for stage 4.

    If the feds allow that cohort quarantine and phase 2 participation.

    Way too complicated. Canadian teams scheduled for US hubs are all very likely to ask their Euros to join them for a training camp in the US.

  34. oilersfan says:

    I am all for opening up and restarting and the NHL playing, etc

    That being said isn’t there a legit risk a guy like Klefbom coming from Sweden or anybody coming from New York or Arizona would actually have covid ? Why would we want To risk the health of the entire team so klefbom can not quarantine?

    I know they will test them everyday but my understanding is in the dormancy phase covid doesn’t always show up in the tests. Seems to me klefbom (and maybe others ) legitimately should quarantine for 5-7 days even with frequent testing

  35. godot10 says:

    leeinvan:
    Still think it was a mistake taking the big Swedish D man last year.
    This team desperately needs top 6 forwards, and they have a glut of D men in their system.
    A top end forward can make the team in year two (sometimes) a D man usually takes 3-4-5 years to make the team. So if you have a glut of D men, not sure where the logic was, is this D man so much better than the next pick taken?
    Neither Klefbom, Nurse or Larsson can be considered old then you add Bear, Jones and the 3-5 D men waiting on the system, where do they all fit?
    Unless the plan was to trade a D man for a top six young forward, I’m not sure what the logic was?

    The OIlers do not have a glut of defensemen. Larsson has one year left on his contract. Klefbom three.

    Klefbom will be 30, with an injury riddled career, looking for a massive payday after his current bargain deal.

    Broberg was picked to insure a contending defense that is affordable and a smooth transition if Klefbom cannot be re-signed.

    McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, a legit top 5 top 4D, and the Oilers are contenders. Wingers are easy to find. That is what the perpetual contending model looks like.

    Zegras had an ordinary draft +1. Nothing exceptional.

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Mari Lonnberg:

    Puljujärvi repeating his stance ”never say never” when asked if returning to Oilers is possible. He says though that everything is open now and he hasn’t set any time lines for the decision. Playing with Kärpät is also an option for the next season.

    https://twitter.com/lonnbergmari/status/1271150091081003011?s=21

  37. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Mari Lonnberg:

    Puljujärvi repeating his stance ”never say never” when asked if returning to Oilers is possible. He says though that everything is open now and he hasn’t set any time lines for the decision. Playing with Kärpät is also an option for the next season.

    https://twitter.com/lonnbergmari/status/1271150091081003011?s=21

    In other words he’s back to being a prospect.

    This is like found money.

  38. Ribs says:

    dustrock:
    I won’t post anymore but the whole article is incredible.

    Guess what percentage of clear shots from the slot go in? 7%.

    Auston Matthews had 41 clear shots from the slot. How many goals? 4.

    Haven’t read the article, but is McDavid better than Matthews yet?

    https://youtu.be/qtBuwsAY2fk

  39. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Mari Lonnberg:

    Puljujärvi repeating his stance ”never say never” when asked if returning to Oilers is possible. He says though that everything is open now and he hasn’t set any time lines for the decision. Playing with Kärpät is also an option for the next season.

    https://twitter.com/lonnbergmari/status/1271150091081003011?s=21

    It’s a lot harder to trade the unhappy player for value (thus no trade) when the player and agent keep saying that he’ll never return to the certain franchise. It sounds like it took 3 or 4 tries of explaining this to agent and client before they clued in.

  40. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Rishaug:

    Looks like a solution to the 14 day quarantine is on the way from the Fed Govt. that should allow all 3 Canadian markets to remain viable options as hub cities, and for Cdn teams to hold their training camps north of the border. Details to come in the next few days.

  41. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Mari Lonnberg:

    Puljujärvi repeating his stance ”never say never” when asked if returning to Oilers is possible. He says though that everything is open now and he hasn’t set any time lines for the decision. Playing with Kärpät is also an option for the next season.

    https://twitter.com/lonnbergmari/status/1271150091081003011?s=21

    All bets are possible says the player at a poker table before the next raise. II don’t think Holland has any downside here. If JP has evolved in his game and confidence to the point where he’s ready to bet on himself at an Oil camp Holland wins. If the kid takes more steps on both sides of the puck the Kraken leave off our Young D. In any other scenario Holland reminds every GM in the league he’s won’t be rushed on any offer. That range of outcomes is better than long odds on a NHL regular.,

  42. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Rishaug:

    Looks like a solution to the 14 day quarantine is on the way from the Fed Govt. that should allow all 3 Canadian markets to remain viable options as hub cities, and for Cdn teams to hold their training camps north of the border.Details to come in the next few days.

    Feds signing off is part of the story. My take has been we get one Canadian hub IF the Canadian rightsholders hold strong to that as part of their “true up” negotiations. Driven by the rightsholders Toronto would normally be their first choice, but they’d be better going to their second choice, the Dys.. Edmonton’s integrated facility is the wild card.

    I don’t think the talk of US training camp is only about the case where they don’t get fed sign off. Don’t see Euros being asked to come to Canada to play in a US hub.

  43. defmn says:

    godot10: The OIlers do not have a glut of defensemen.Larsson has one year left on his contract.Klefbom three.

    Klefbom will be 30, with an injury riddled career, looking for a massive payday after his current bargain deal.

    Broberg was picked to insure a contending defense that is affordable and a smooth transition if Klefbom cannot be re-signed.

    McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins, a legit top 5 top 4D, and the Oilers are contenders.Wingers are easy to find.That is what the perpetual contending model looks like.

    Zegras had an ordinary draft +1.Nothing exceptional.

    For as long as I have been reading this blog – from the very beginning – it was common knowledge that centres and dmen are more valuable than wingers and that if you trade a winger for a dman you get lesser value back.

    The real question, then, would be why wouldn’t you take the dman or centre before the winger in the draft where the acquisition cost is the same.

  44. N64 says:

    defmn: For as long as I have been reading this blog – from the very beginning – it was common knowledge that centres and dmen are more valuable than wingers and that if you trade a winger for a dman you get lesser value back.

    The real question, then, would be why wouldn’t you take the dman or centre before the winger in the draft where the acquisition cost is the same.

    Yes. In fact when we say BPA, the calculation of “best” has to include overall value which includes positional acquisition cost.

  45. Clarkenstein says:

    As per the comment you made on your show LT that it looks like Vegas has been booked by the NHL that would mean the other Hub would almost certainly be Columbus. No way would the NHL go with two Western cities. It seems the Covid quarantine by the CDN gov’t has screwed us. Or to be more precise Quebec has screwed us once again!! Their numbers are dictating how the whole country has to deal with the virus. Oh well it would been have fun.

  46. defmn says:

    N64: All bets are possible says the player at a poker table before the next raise. II don’t think Holland has any downside here. If JP has evolved in his game and confidence to the point where he’s ready to bet on himself at an Oil camp Holland wins. If the kid takes more steps on both sides of the puck the Kraken leave off our Young D. In any other scenario Holland reminds every GM in the league he’s won’t be rushed on any offer. That range of outcomes is better than long odds on a NHL regular.,

    Who knew.

  47. jtblack says:

    will Skinner be the 3rd Goalie for playoffs?

  48. N64 says:

    Clarkenstein:
    As per the comment you made on your show LT that it looks like Vegas has been booked by the NHL that would mean the other Hub would almost certainly be Columbus.No way would the NHL go with two Western cities.It seems the Covid quarantine by the CDN gov’t has screwed us.Or to be more precise Quebec has screwed us once again!! Their numbers are dictating how the whole country has to deal with the virus. Oh well it would been have fun.

    I can’t imagine any circumstance where the feds sign off BEFORE the NHL indicates they are ready to close the deal with a Canadian city. The reports today are hinting that feds are ready to sign off. I think that reflects that NHL is about to decide if they want a Canadian hub or not. If NHL reverts to form they’ll decide to close with 2 US cities. Again Feds are not going to take a position until Gary is ready to do due diligence with a Canadian city. Why should they weigh in publicly until a deal is ready to ink? No upside sticking their neck out if Gary is going elsewhere no matter what. Feds only role is to sign off.

  49. N64 says:

    defmn: Who knew.

    Shocking isn’t it?

  50. N64 says:

    jtblack:
    will Skinner be the 3rd Goalie for playoffs?

    Apparently there will be no goalie limit on the expanded roster, so there may be a bunch of 3rds.

  51. Reja says:

    N64: Apparently there will be no goalie limit on the expanded roster, so there may be a bunch of 3rds.

    Bring the Russian over and let him get a taste of North America.

  52. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Friedman, the NHL has asked teams to provide a list of the players/prospects that will be part of stages 3 and 4 and be with the team.

    Apparently Edmonton is still considering their last few spots.

    I would think the 28 skater spots would be mostly straight forward:

    McDavid

    Drai

    Nuge

    Yamamoto

    Kassian

    Ennis

    AA

    Sheahan

    Archie

    Khaira

    Neal

    Chiasson

    Nygard

    Haas

    P. Russell

    Granlund

    Benson

    Nurse

    Bear

    Klefbom

    Larsson

    Rusty

    Green

    Benning

    Jones

    Laggeson

    Bouchard

    ——————

    That leaves one spot – Marody probably?

    I know they were “thinking of” bringing Broberg – of course, without the thought of him playing – he’d be the 11th d-man.

    McLeod would be the other guy that may be asked.

    Am I missing anyone viable?

  53. OriginalPouzar says:

    Also per Friedman:

    • Chicago is waiting on some of its injured players (Calvin de Haan, Brent Seabrook, Andrew Shaw and Zack Smith) to see if any of them can play

    ————

    I thought de Haan was ready to go – the Hawks really need him healthy and ready. I’m OK if he needs more time.

  54. hunter1909 says:

    Ribs: Haven’t read the article, but is McDavid better than Matthews yet?

    https://youtu.be/qtBuwsAY2fk

    As a loyal TSN reader, let’s say it’s close.

  55. hunter1909 says:

    Reja: It’s a lot harder to trade the unhappy playerfor value (thus no trade) whenthe playerand agentkeep saying that he’ll never return to the certain franchise. It sounds like it took 3 or 4tries of explaining this to agent and client before they clued in.

    Please check it out from their perspective:

    Holland’s not going to budge. He’s not Lowe, trading Pronger for pennies out of panic, or Chiarelli trading half the team away for nonsense.

    If JP wants a trade he’s either going through Oilers one way or else he might have to wait for years in Finland.

  56. hunter1909 says:

    defmn: The real question, then, would be why wouldn’t you take the dman or centre before the winger in the draft where the acquisition cost is the same.

    Possibly the real answer is something like this:

    Building a championship NHL team isn’t easy. It’s so hard that most teams don’t even win a cup since only 1 out of 31 wins these days. The teams which have won more than once are: Detroit, Colorado, Chicago and LAK all of whom drafted most of their main pieces, including wingers.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    Per Friedman:

    18. Speaking of the AHL, five NHL GMs (Kyle Dubas, Ken Holland, David Poile, Don Sweeney and Steve Yzerman) will be part of group working together to plan the AHL’s process for the 2020–21 season.

    —————

    I really hope the AHL is able to play next year even if there can’t be full fans in the stands.

    It’s helpful that 2/3 of the teams (apx) are owned by their NHL parents but there are still a number of independents.

    Imagine if the NHL plays and the AHL is on hold? They would have to do expanded NHL rosters (without cap implications) or some sort of other logistics.

    I think the AHL will play – they may need to put a few franchises on hold and disperse their players though….

  58. flyfish1168 says:

    hunter1909: As a loyal TSN reader, let’s say it’s close.

    I would like to poll NHL gms which player they would like to have

  59. Rondo says:

    We’ve been lied to. Why would you even play if this virus is what they said.

    The virus does not exist when rioting or protesting

    The virus does not exist in Target, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes or in any grocery store.

    The virus cannot survive in liquor stores or marijuana dispensaries

    The virus won’t affect politicians while they are standing at a podium.

    While the virus kills people, the virus apparently is a partial cure for heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes, influenza and other respiratory issues, etc

    The virus is super deadly to those people who deny that the pandemic is real, but not deadly at all to major celebrities.

    Wearing a mask will not protect you from the virus, then it will, then it won’t, then it will, then it will for adults – but not for children.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/11/unnecessary_lockdowns_created_social_turmoil_global_suffering_143419.html

  60. defmn says:

    Question for the group.

    With this new info that Jesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

  61. Dac189 says:

    defmn:
    Question for the group.

    With this new info thatJesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

    If he’s willing to stay, keep him. You’re not guaranteed to get much out of a 2nd round pick.
    I do wonder whether he’s good enough for the NHL but he’s got high potential and is worth the risk.

  62. N64 says:

    Rondo:
    We’ve been lied to. Why would you even play if this virus is what they said.

    The virus does not exist when rioting or protesting

    The virus does not exist in Target, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes or in any grocery store.

    The virus cannot survive in liquor stores or marijuana dispensaries

    The virus won’t affect politicians while they are standing at a podium.

    While the virus kills people, the virus apparently is a partial cure for heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes, influenza and other respiratory issues, etc

    The virus is super deadly to those people who deny that the pandemic is real, but not deadly at all to major celebrities.

    Wearing a mask will not protect you from the virus, then it will, then it won’t, then it will, then it will for adults – but not for children.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/11/unnecessary_lockdowns_created_social_turmoil_global_suffering_143419.html

    I’m shocked to find their are people on both side of the political divide who only care about their politics. Who knew?

    Give the political axe grinding a break here.

    Rondo (March 13): “The numbers with the coronavirus are not even close. They are barely a fraction of a percentage compared to the swine flu… What was different? (chuckles) What was different was we had a Democrat in the White House”

    11 weeks later with covid barely breaking a sweat and the President had the US flag lowered to mark 100,000 deaths, EIGHT TIMES the official CDC swine flu estimate of 12,469 deaths found here:

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

    We never had the US style lockdowns here. We were closer to Sweden’s restriction than California’s. As of tomorrow Alberta has fewer restrictions than Sweden. Take your politics elsewhere.

  63. N64 says:

    defmn: With this new info that Jesse’s position

    Not new. Note that OP says JP REPEATED his never say never.

  64. Dac189 says:

    I wonder what the contingency plan is if one player or one team gets sick halfway through the playoffs.
    Would they keep going, pause again or fully cancel?

  65. defmn says:

    N64: Not new. Note that OP says JP REPEATED his never say never.

    That’s the new part. 😉

  66. N64 says:

    Dac189:
    I wonder what the contingency plan is if one player or one team gets sick halfway through the playoffs.
    Would they keep going, pause again or fully cancel?

    For one player they want to keep going. Outside of a bubble public health would normally ask all close contacts to go into isolation. All contacts would be retested before continuing with practice and games.

  67. N64 says:

    defmn: That’s the new part.😉

    hah, when OP asked this week what’s changed to make us think signing is a possibility, i would have mentioned never say never. Except OP had quoted that in the past. 😉

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    leeinvan:
    Still think it was a mistake taking the big Swedish D man last year.
    This team desperately needs top 6 forwards, and they have a glut of D men in their system.
    A top end forward can make the team in year two (sometimes) a D man usually takes 3-4-5 years to make the team. So if you have a glut of D men, not sure where the logic was, is this D man so much better than the next pick taken?
    Neither Klefbom, Nurse or Larsson can be considered old then you add Bear, Jones and the 3-5 D men waiting on the system, where do they all fit?
    Unless the plan was to trade a D man for a top six young forward, I’m not sure what the logic was?

    Time will tell if it was a mistake and, realistically, we are talking about quite a bit of time.

    No doubt that high skill forwards generally “arrive” quicker than “non-elite but high skilled” d-men and, in this case, given European pedigree and young for draft age it will be a while before we see Broberg as an Oiler.

    With that said, to the extent Broberg reaches his potential, I’d say a legit top pairing d-man is more valuable than a top line winger.

    Yes, the Oilers have a “pipeline of d-man” in particular on the left side, however, Holland has been very clear he is looking to build a contender year after year after year and continuing that pipeline will be key.

    I’m not sure about “a glut” – not all will “make it” and even those that do may not reach their potential. What Holland believes is that a very strong and deep defensive group is key to championships.

    Broberg staggers the age groups.

    Sure, at some point maybe there is a bottleneck and d-men become trade currency.

    In the interim, a pipeline is key to ensure that, once incumbents price themselves out of the cap structure, or get too old, they can be replaced with younger and cheaper players – or those incumbents can be used as value trade currency to plug holes.

    The pick was clearly playing the long game.

    I understand the disdain for it, and it may turn out to be the wrong pick – of course, it may turn out to be a very good pick as well. I know what the forwards did in their draft plus 1 but Broberg’s season at 18 in a very tough league for d-men was arrows up as well.

  69. Hitman77 says:

    defmn:
    Question for the group.

    With this new info thatJesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

    I would still trade him for a 2nd if it’s out there. I think that’s the absolute most we’ll get for him.

  70. meanashell11 says:

    N64: I’m shocked to find their are people on both side of the political divide who only care about their politics. Who knew?

    Give the political axe grinding a break here.

    Rondo (March 13): “The numbers with the coronavirus are not even close. They are barely a fraction of a percentage compared to the swine flu… What was different? (chuckles) What was different was we had a Democrat in the White House”

    11 weeks later with covid barely breaking a sweat and the President had the US flag lowered to mark 100,000 deaths, EIGHT TIMES the official CDC swine flu estimate of 12,469 deaths found here:

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

    We never had the US style lockdowns here. We were closer to Sweden’s restriction than California’s. As of tomorrow Alberta has fewer restrictions than Sweden. Take your politics elsewhere.

    Tell me about it. I live in Connecticut, just outside of NYC. It was so nice to go for a run and not see a single car on the road for days! This was not quarantine, it was just smart people practicing social distancing. Now we are coming out of this strong. Hopefully no second wave here. But is was not great for awhile. A lot of people I know caught it. Greenwich Hospital did a great job!

  71. hunter1909 says:

    Hitman77: I would still trade him for a 2nd if it’s out there.I think that’s the absolute most we’ll get for him.

    Thank you, Peter Chiarelli.

  72. N64 says:

    meanashell11: it was just smart people practicing social distancing.

    Certainly govt’s over-reacted and under-reacted as many have pointed out in a non-political way.
    But some parts of the end result were baked in from the start:

    More deaths -> less movement -> less spending -> fewer jobs
    Fewer deaths -> more movement -> more spending -> more jobs

  73. hunter1909 says:

    N64: More deaths -> less movement -> less spending -> fewer jobs
    Fewer deaths -> more movement -> more spending -> more jobs

    This is speculation. As such it has no value in reality.

  74. Hitman77 says:

    hunter1909: Thank you, Peter Chiarelli.

    You honestly think we could do better? This guy is turning into Yak 2.0.

  75. N64 says:

    hunter1909: This is speculation. As such it has no value in reality.

    hah then right at home. causation is always speculation. those are correlations and I stated they are PART of the result. people’s phone’s stopped moving and cash registers stopped filling cross north america before any gov’t orders. consumer confidence requires personal confidence. no proof, but a serious suggestion not to blame everything on politics. some factors are barely controllable by pols whatever they think.

  76. pts2pndr says:

    Hitman77: I would still trade him for a 2nd if it’s out there.I think that’s the absolute most we’ll get for him.

    You have every right to be wrong.😉

  77. hunter1909 says:

    N64: hah then right at home. causation is always speculation. those are correlations and I stated they are PART of the result. people’s phone’s stopped moving and cash registers stopped filling cross north america before any gov’t orders. consumer confidence requires personal confidence. no proof, but a serious suggestion not to blame everything on politics. some factors are barely controllable by pols whatever they think.

    Politics has little to do with people panicking on this scale

  78. Rondo says:

    meanashell11,

    Tell me then where the virus went? no answer because their reasoning was flattening the curve. Therefore delaying death but more collateral death than the virus. Lckdowns don’t work, if social distancing works why wear a mask? If masks work why social distancing.

  79. hunter1909 says:

    Hitman77: You honestly think we could do better?This guy is turning into Yak 2.0.

    Yak will go down as the unluckiest Russian rookie to ever be drafted 1OA.

    Keystone Cops level management and coaching.

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: Your assumptions are based on Bear stepping up, something which had yet to occur when Broberg was picked.

    Therefore, your argument fails at the first hurdle.

    No need to thank me.

    Broberg and Bear will never be competing for the same jobs – Broberg is a LD and Bear a RD – yes, they are both defence but Bear is a RD for his career I’m sure and I don’t see them wanting to shift Broberg to the right side (even though I think he has played some internationally).

  81. hunter1909 says:

    Who wants to be drafted by Buffalo, which is run by the trophy wife of a mad billionaire.

  82. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Broberg and Bear will never be competing for the same jobs – Broberg is a LD and Bear a RD – yes, they are both defence but Bear is a RD for his career I’m sure and I don’t see them wanting to shift Broberg to the right side (even though I think he has played some internationally).

    Not sure what you’re driving at. Am discussing the Oilers defence as a whole, not individual parts.

  83. N64 says:

    hunter1909: Politics has little to do with people panicking on this scale lol

    One man’s panic is another man’s rational behavior. Turns out you can’t always make people spend money. When the pols say let ‘er rip and we’ll take care of granny for some odd reason people don’t always believe them. Sweden not based on hindsight (not hysteria) says they should have aimed for lower levels than they did.

  84. Dac189 says:

    Rondo,

    Think about it as:

    Every infected person infects two people when no changes are made. Rn=2
    This leads to large amount of population being infected.

    Now if masks reduce spread by 25%. M=0.25
    And isolation lowers spread by 50%. I=0.5

    Rn1 = Rn * (1-M) * (1-I)
    Rn1 = 2.00 * 0.75 * 0.5 = 0.75. >>> A downward trend of infection.

    *All numbers made up for example

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    N64: Way too complicated. Canadian teams scheduled for US hubs are all very likely to ask their Euros to join them for a training camp in the US.

    I don’t understand how that is too complicated?

    There isn’t an issue going across the border from Canada to the US either way – all the athletes are allowed as they are crossing for their jobs.

    There is no issue going from training camp in Canada to a US hub for stage 4.

    The issue is the 14-days upon coming to Canada and players returning for training camp. If the federal government allows for that 14-day to include heading to the Oilers facilities in full compliance with NHL State 2 protocols, there is no issue to having camp in Canada.

    I don’t disagree that it may be easier to hold camp in the US but that’s taking players away from their families for yet another 2-3 weeks.

  86. JOFA says:

    Hitman77: You honestly think we could do better?This guy is turning into Yak 2.0.

    Hitman77: I would still trade him for a 2nd if it’s out there.I think that’s the absolute most we’ll get for him.

    Balderdash!

    Hold on to him, or trade him for a 1st rounder. He’ll be a bona fide NHLer. Don’t be surprised when he comes back.
    His favorite color is orange by the way😉

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: For as long as I have been reading this blog – from the very beginning – it was common knowledge that centres and dmen are more valuable than wingers and that if you trade a winger for a dman you get lesser value back.

    The real question, then, would be why wouldn’t you take the dman or centre before the winger in the draft where the acquisition cost is the same.

    I’m just fine with the Broberg pick – it very well could turn out to be “the wrong pick” or it very well could turn out to be “the right pick” – years to go but Broberg’s draft plus 1 as an 18 year old d-man in a tough league for teenage d-men is encouraging.

    With that said, knowing that the forward is highly likely to impact that roster and the lineup and help win games a few years earlier is value – not even getting in to team need.

    Again, fine with Broberg – Holland and his staff must have viewed him as BPA and BPA to help the team contend for cups yearly down the road.

  88. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: that’s taking players away from their families for yet another 2-3 weeks.

    You have to laugh at how precious these millionaire’s “family time” gets.

  89. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack:
    will Skinner be the 3rd Goalie for playoffs?

    I think Skinner is brought for sure and Starrett maybe as well.

    There is no cap on the number of goalies (although I believe 50 toal organizational members including coaches, managers, trainers, etc.).

    Frankly, if Starrett is healthy and the horrid happens that they need to put the 3rd stringer in – I think it should be Starrett.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: Bring the Russian over andlet him get a taste of North America.

    Under contract for another year in the KHL – prohibited.

    Don’t get skeemy and fuck with Putin…..

  91. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Frankly, if Starrett is healthy and the horrid happens that they need to put the 3rd stringer in – I think it should be Starrett.

    I feel that I must disagree.

    I would prefer to scream at a 3rd string goalie named Skinner.

  92. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: Please check it out from their perspective:

    Holland’s not going to budge. He’s not Lowe, trading Pronger for pennies out of panic, or Chiarelli trading half the team away for nonsense.

    If JP wants a trade he’s either going through Oilers one way or else he might have to wait for years in Finland.

    Lowe got a solid haul for Pronger:

    1st round pick
    1st round pick
    2nd round pick
    20 year old who just scored almost 30 goals
    Very recently drafted top 10 pick d-man

    Lupul and Smid becoming, well, Lupul and Smid, cratered the deal in time but those were two very good prospects, well, one very good prospect and one young, rising NHL goal scoring winger.

    End Note: One of the picks was Jordan Eberle and another was Travis Hamonic

  93. N64 says:

    Rondo:
    meanashell11,

    Tell me then where the virus went? no answer because their reasoning was flattening the curve. Therefore delaying death but more collateral death than the virus. Lckdowns don’t work, if social distancing works why wear a mask? If masks work why social distancing.

    Please enough of the slogans. We’ll all sort out what comes next without American politics. You told us all that this was less than the swine flu and that people were only making a fuss about covid because their guy wasn’t in the White House. Yet the US death count is now 8X swine flu. We can and will get along fine without the ax grinding. AB has less restrictions than Sweden (as of tomorrow) and 1/10 the death rate of the US. That isn’t meant to criticize Sweden or the US. Every region has to try what they think works best in their circumstances.

  94. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn:
    Question for the group.

    With this new info thatJesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

    I would much rather sign him and bring him to camp then to trade straight for a 2nd rounder.

    If he continues to refuse to sign, well, then I’m OK with Holland moving him but not straight up for a 2nd – I don’t think Holland would move off his perceived value that much either.

    I must ask though, what would be the point for the team or the player of signing him an loaning him back to Karpat (which burns that year of the contract)? Do you think he needs move development time overseas?

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    Dac189:
    I wonder what the contingency plan is if one player or one team gets sick halfway through the playoffs.
    Would they keep going, pause again or fully cancel?

    The league has been clear for a while now that one player getting sick will absolutely not shut down the entire thing. That player will need to isolate and recover and the games will continue – of course, likely some sort of increased protocols for those in contact with that player – don’t know what those would be.

  96. N64 says:

    hunter1909: I feel that I must disagree.

    I would prefer to scream at a 3rd string goalie named Skinner.

    Great tandem for the future. If things go wrong we can stare at Skinner or skin Starret.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    Hitman77: You honestly think we could do better?This guy is turning into Yak 2.0.

    There is really no comparison to Yakupov in my opinion except for a high draft prospect that hasn’t made it in the NHL.

    Yakupov failed to make it in the NHL, end stop – he got tries over many years and with various organizations and left the league because, well, he couldn’t succeed in the league.

    Puljujarvi had his troubles adapting to the league, no doubt, but he left at 20, not because he ultimately couldn’t make it in the league but because of a refusal to play for a franchise. Teams are willing to give him NHL contracts and give up assets to acquire him.

    He had failed to make it by 20 years old and then had a massive season in Europe – yes, a lesser league, but he was arguably the league’s best player.

    Pulujarvi’s 18 year old season in the AHL needs to be given more print in my opinion – that was a very good AHL season for the youngest person in the North American pro hockey.

  98. N64 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t understand how that is too complicated?

    Too complicated from the player standpoint. If one of the hubs is in Canada with fed approval I still wonder whether Canadian teams heading for a US hub will train in the US.

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: Not sure what you’re driving at. Am discussing the Oilers defence as a whole, not individual parts.

    Which you are apt to do, however, Broberg and Bear play different positions within that position and Bear’s solidifying of a top 4 position on the right side is materially irrelevant when discussing Broberg, in my opinion.

  100. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: You have to laugh at how precious these millionaire’s “family time” gets.

    You are going to laugh at Matt Benning who has reservations about leaving his wife essentially right after she is scheduled to give birth?

    You are going to laugh at Devan Dubnyk who has reservations about leaving his wife with major medical issues?

    Have capital does not make one not human.

    Not to mention, Tyler Benson, Evan Bouchard, Stuart Skinner, Willie Lagesson – far from millionaires and made less this year than many people that post in this forum

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    N64: Too complicated from the player standpoint. If one of the hubs is in Canada with fed approval I still wonder whether Canadian teams heading for a US hub will train in the US.

    I don’t understand that at all.

  102. Reja says:

    OriginalPouzar: Under contract for another year in the KHL – prohibited.

    Don’t get skeemy and fuck with Putin…..

    He could still come and meet the boys, watch a few games and get a taste of Canadian and American pie. No way Putin denies him that, but seriously bring him over to study the goaltenders in the Chicago series let him meet the goaltending coach. I have a good feeling about this kid we could have a Khabibulin sitting in our laps where were set in net for the next half-dozen years on the cheap. We are more than over due on a Russian hit geez I can’t even remember the last Russian that played above expectations maybe Mironov.

  103. who says:

    defmn: Who knew.

    Someone thought they did.

  104. who says:

    defmn:
    Question for the group.

    With this new info thatJesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

    1st rounder or similar quality prospect that is expansion exempt.
    Otherwise I keep him.

  105. Ancient Oilers Fan says:

    defmn:
    Question for the group.

    With this new info thatJesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

    Wouldn’t he have to clear waivers before being loaned out after signing

  106. leadfarmer says:

    Rondo:
    meanashell11,

    Tell me then where the virus went? no answer because their reasoning was flattening the curve. Therefore delaying death but more collateral death than the virus. Lckdowns don’t work, if social distancing works why wear a mask? If masks work why social distancing.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/06/11/arizona-coronavirus-cases-nearly-double-since-memorial-day-as-state-nears-hospital-capacity.html

    If June Arizona sun and heat can’t kill the virus maybe July sun and heat can right?? Right??

  107. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Which you are apt to do, however, Broberg and Bear play different positions within that position and Bear’s solidifying of a top 4 position on the right side is materially irrelevant when discussing Broberg, in my opinion.

    LOL

    Sorry but your verbiage masks nothing less than someone with a limited understanding of what he’s constantly trying to tell everyone about.

  108. defmn says:

    Ancient Oilers Fan: Wouldn’t he have to clear waivers before being loaned out after signing

    Not that I know of. Would it be different than signing Berglund and loaning him to a team in Sweden for next year?

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    Reja: He could still come and meet the boys, watch a few games and get a taste of Canadian and American pie. No way Putin denies him that, but seriously bring him over to study the goaltenders in the Chicago series let him meet the goaltending coach.I have a good feeling about this kid we could have a Khabibulin sitting in our laps where were set in net for the next half-dozen years on the cheap. We are more than over due on a Russian hit geez I can’t even remember the last Russian that played above expectations maybe Mironov.

    There are going to be strict parameters on who can be in these bubbles limited to 28 skaters plus goalie and team staff taking it up to 50. He can’t be one of the players and I’m pretty sure he can’t be one of the organzional coaches, management, trainers, staff, etc.

    Not to mention, his KHL season is slated to start at the beginning of September.

  110. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: LOL

    Sorry but your verbiage masks nothing less than someone with a limited understanding of what he’s constantly trying to tell everyone about.

    You get that from my opinion that Ethan Bear’s emergency doesn’t effect the LD depth chart going forward?

    Alrighty then.

    Seems like one of those “no substantive retort to the subject so I’ll switch to personal insult”.

  111. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: Not that I know of. Would it be different than signing Berglund and loaning him to a team in Sweden for next year?

    I don’t know for sure if he’d be subject to waivers but, no, its not the same as Berglund (or Persson before him) – they were loaned on their ELCs and waiver exempt.

    Given Jesse played 10 NHL games as an 18 year old, his waiver exempt years reduce to 3 and they’ve all vested so he is generally subject to waivers. Berglund is not.

  112. defmn says:

    Ancient Oilers Fan: Wouldn’t he have to clear waivers before being loaned out after signing

    I still don’t know the answer to your question. The closest I could find was this and it doesn’t really answer your question.

    ==================================

    13.23 In the event a professional or former professional Player plays in a league outside North
    America after the start of the NHL Regular Season, other than on Loan from his Club, he may
    thereafter play in the NHL during that Playing Season (including Playoffs) only if he has first
    either cleared or been obtained via Waivers. For the balance of the Playing Season, any such
    Player who has been obtained via Waivers may be Traded or Loaned only after again clearing
    Waivers or through Waiver claim. This section shall not apply to a Player on the Reserve List or
    Restricted Free Agent List of an NHL Club with whom the Player is signing an NHL SPC or is
    party to an existing SPC with such NHL Club.

  113. Ancient Oilers Fan says:

    defmn,

    You are looking at the Routsalanen rule.

    I think the answer is in the regular waiver rules. Wherever they can be found.

  114. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: You get that from my opinion that Ethan Bear’s emergency doesn’t effect the LD depth chart going forward?

    Alrighty then.

    Seems like one of those “no substantive retort to the subject so I’ll switch to personal insult”.

    You’re entitled to your (wrong) opinion.

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    defmn: I still don’t know the answer to your question. The closest I could find was this and it doesn’t really answer your question.

    ==================================

    13.23 In the event a professional or former professional Player plays in a league outside North
    America after the start of the NHL Regular Season, other than on Loan from his Club, he may
    thereafter play in the NHL during that Playing Season (including Playoffs) only if he has first
    either cleared or been obtained via Waivers. For the balance of the Playing Season, any such
    Player who has been obtained via Waivers may be Traded or Loaned only after again clearing
    Waivers or through Waiver claim. This section shall not apply to a Player on the Reserve List or
    Restricted Free Agent List of an NHL Club with whom the Player is signing an NHL SPC or is
    party to an existing SPC with such NHL Club.

    That is for players playing in Europe that come to North America during the season.

    Not for players heading to Europe with NHL contracts on loan.

    The provisions of the CBA do expressly talk about waivers when loaning to another professional league and Jesse is no longer exempt so I believe he would have to clear.

    Either way, I still don’t understand what the benefit would be to the player or team to sign and loan back to Karpat? Unless you think an extra year of European development is needed?

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: You’re entitled to your (wrong) opinion.

    Happy to have a chat about it on given, you know, we are in the comments section.

    I’ve explained my position – you’ve countered it with no substance and simply stating, I’m wrong and don’t know anything.

    I am open to your thoughts on how Ethan Bear’s emergence effects the LD depth chart.

  117. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: There are going to be strict parameters on who can be in these bubbles limited to 28 skaters plus goalie and team staff taking it up to 50. He can’t be one of the players and I’m pretty sure he can’t be one of the organzional coaches, management, trainers, staff, etc.

    Not to mention, his KHL season is slated to start at the beginning of September.

    Would this not also apply to Broberg?

    You’ve been insisting he could come over for training camp which I assume will also be a bubble of limited size.

  118. OriginalPouzar says:

    KHL contract and SHL contracts are different vis-a-vis the NHL given the transfer agreement.

    Konovalov cannot join the Oilers. Broberg can.

    Absolutely if the SHL season starts as planned I doubt they will bring Broberg over – that factor still applies.

    The late start to the 2020/21 NHL season sucks in that regard as both the player and the team wanted him to come for camp before joining Skelfeeta – that would cause him to miss part of the season but it would be a bit different in December.

    —————

    As an aside, are you finally willing to admit that you were simply wrong when you said a non-signed player cannot be taken in the expansion draft? You’ve had 24 hours away to work up the nerve.

  119. Glovjuice says:

    OriginalPouzar: The league has been clear for a while now that one player getting sick will absolutely not shut down the entire thing. That player will need to isolate and recover and the games will continue – of course, likely some sort of increased protocols for those in contact with that player – don’t know what those would be.

    What about two players? Three? 4 ?

  120. OriginalPouzar says:

    We know that 1 or 2 positive tests won’t “shut the whole thing down” as the league as said so.

    Can’t say about 3 or 4 but I’m sure it’ll be laid out for all of us in the phase 3 and 4 return to play guidelines which I’m sure will be hundreds of pages

  121. JimmyV1965 says:

    defmn:
    Question for the group.

    With this new info thatJesse’s position on returning to Edmonton has appeared to soften are you still in favour of trading him for a 2nd rounder this coming draft?

    And I am not trying to be a smart ass in asking this question. I am genuinely interested in hearing if this changes things for those who have been advocating trading him this off season.

    BTW – I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with the Oilers and they lend him to Karpat for one more season.

    JP resigning with the Oil would be the best result we can hope for. Not sure why we would lend him back to Karpat though. If he still refuses to sign, the next best option is trading for another high end prospect who is treading water. Getting a first rounder in the top 25 won’t happen IMO. If all else fails, I would take a second rounder. Spending another year in Europe is a waste of time for the player and the team.

  122. JimmyV1965 says:

    One thing I don’t understand is the pre-occupation with the expansion draft. We will lose a good player. That’s the reality of the situation. Good teams will have to expose good players. Bad teams won’t have anyone worth taking. We’ve been there and it sucks. If we’re lucky, we will have a few good players that need to be exposed. IMO, the expansion draft should have a very limited role in Holland’s decision making.

  123. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Happy to have a chat about it on given, you know, we are in the comments section.

    I’ve explained my position – you’ve countered it with no substance and simply stating, I’m wrong and don’t know anything.

    I am open to your thoughts on how Ethan Bear’s emergence effects the LD depth chart.

    I dont think of defencemen as right of left side I just look at them all together since thats more or less normal in some circles, like the ones I happen to travel in.

    In a league where defencemen become forwards(McSorely, Clark, Dustin B) and vice versa occasionally it just doesn’t scream out to me that the Oilers need a this or that side defenceman.

    Oilers have been crying out about a bad defence since over 10 years ago. Having Bear and Jones semi emerge into good players hardly fixes the basic problem of Oilers needing better talents on the blueline. Broberg(who I assume we’re discussing) has been given nothing but scorn for some reason since draft day, probably because in his draft+1 year he’s not tearing up his league(which happens to be a mens league).

    What interests me is the fact that I have always been happy to have Ken Holland+Tippett while others have been less than charitable, citing dubious reasons which “prove’ their point. You know, typical sports fans.

  124. Ribs says:

    Jesse won’t come play for the defending Stanley Cup Champions when asked to next season? Good luck finding another NHL team to play on! lol

    Never say never!

  125. ArmchairGM says:

    OriginalPouzar: I would much rather sign him and bring him to camp then to trade straight for a 2nd rounder.

    If he continues to refuse to sign, well, then I’m OK with Holland moving him but not straight up for a 2nd – I don’t think Holland would move off his perceived value that much either.

    I must ask though, what would be the point for the team or the player of signing him an loaning him back to Karpat (which burns that year of the contract)? Do you think he needs move development time overseas?

    Wouldn’t he have to clear waivers in that scenario?

  126. OriginalPouzar says:

    It’s being reported that Samorukov has a deal to play for CSKA in the KHL next year that has been approved by Holland.

    If true, I wonder if this is because the KHL is planning to start in Sept?

    Not sure the legalities here but, with no transfer agreement and an NHL contract, I would think this needs more than Holland’s approval and league approval.

  127. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965:
    One thing I don’t understand is the pre-occupation with the expansion draft. We will lose a good player. That’s the reality of the situation. Good teams will have to expose good players. Bad teams won’t have anyone worth taking.We’ve been there and it sucks. If we’re lucky, we will have a few good players that need to be exposed. IMO, the expansion draft should have a very limited role in Holland’s decision making.

    Its not a pre-occupation but its a real factor and something that needs to be included in the decision-making and our GM has expresses as such (which I’m glad for).

    Yes, we are going to lose a good player but – we are already set up to have to leave either Jones or the likes of AA unprotected. If we take away another protected slot (the acquisition for the 1st rounder), then we are looking at leaving the likes of Nuge or Yamamoto or Nurse exposed potentially.

  128. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: I dont think of defencemen as right of left side I just look at them all together since thats more or less normal in some circles, like the ones I happen to travel in.

    In a league where defencemen become forwards(McSorely, Clark, Dustin B) and vice versa occasionally it just doesn’t scream out to me that the Oilers need a this or that side defenceman.

    Oilers have been crying out about a bad defence since over 10 years ago. Having Bear and Jones semi emerge into good players hardly fixes the basic problem of Oilers needing better talents on the blueline. Broberg(who I assume we’re discussing) has been given nothing but scorn for some reason since draft day, probably because in his draft+1 year he’s not tearing up his league(which happens to be a mens league).

    What interests me is the fact that I have always been happy to have Ken Holland+Tippett while others have been less than charitable, citing dubious reasons which “prove’ their point. You know, typical sports fans.

    You may not think of them as left and right, and that is fine, however in reality that is very much the case and very much how the Oilers coach deploys his d-men and he has stated its very important to him.

    There are exceptions and there are exception in acute circumstances, of course, but LD playing the left side and RD playing the right side is reality.

  129. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: Wouldn’t he have to clear waivers in that scenario?

    In what scenario, sign and come to camp?

    No waivers.

    Any sort of loan to another league, I believe, waivers – I’m also lost at why Jesse and the Oilers would agree on a contract and then burn it in a loan to a European league, even if waivers wasn’t an issue.

  130. defmn says:

    JimmyV1965: JP resigning with the Oil would be the best result we can hope for. Not sure why we would lend him back to Karpat though. If he still refuses to sign, the next best option is trading for another high end prospect who is treading water. Getting a first rounder in the top 25 won’t happen IMO. If all else fails, I would take a second rounder. Spending another year in Europe is a waste of time for the player and the team.

    The idea that Jesse would have to clear waivers to be loaned to Karpat had not occurred to me so my apologies for muddying the waters with that suggestion.

    My idea was that Jesse’s HC in Karpat has indicated on a couple of occasions that I have read that he thinks Jesse would benefit from another year there and Jesse has indicated he is considering it. So it was just as a gesture of good will that the Oilers would offer to pay him to play there as a fence mending exercise for whatever the problem of the past was about.

    Since waivers would be necessary – I think, although I could never find an exact, on point, reference in the CBA – that wouldn’t work, of course.

  131. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Its not a pre-occupation but its a real factor and something that needs to be included in the decision-making and our GM has expresses as such (which I’m glad for).

    Yes, we are going to lose a good player but – we are already set up to have to leave either Jones or the likes of AA unprotected. If we take away another protected slot (the acquisition for the 1st rounder), then we are looking at leaving the likes of Nuge or Yamamoto or Nurse exposed potentially.

    But doesn’t that mean we have acquired a player better than Nuge or Yama? I’m not seeing the problem? I doubt we could get a player better than Nuge.

  132. OriginalPouzar says:

    JimmyV1965: But doesn’t that mean we have acquired a player better than Nuge or Yama? I’m not seeing the problem? I doubt we could get a player better than Nuge.

    Valid point but then the player acquired himself would be exposed in that scenario – he’s either bumping a protected player to the exposed list or being exposes himself. If he is exposed and taken, well, that is a bad trade. If he is exposed and not taken, well, that’s probably a bad trade.

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