Lost In The Supermarket

Ken Holland’s process this offseason resembles (so far) his plan a year ago in free agency. Faced with a limited budget and specific needs, he went about his business with precision. He addressed his most pressing needs, one by one, starting with the priority. This year? It appears he has the same priority. Or does he?

THE ATHLETIC!

Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. I am proud to be part of The Athletic. Here are the most recent Oilers stories.

KEN HOLLAND’S FREE AGENT SIGNINGS, 2019

Holland was busy on July 1 but also added help later on in free agency. He entered the market needing a goalie, penalty killers and a couple of men who had scored 12-15 in the hockey guide and record book. Here’s how it happened.

  • July 1: Goalie Mike Smith, one year $2,743,000 ($2 million plus bonuses).
  • July 1: LW Markus Granlund, one year $1,300,000
  • July 1: LW Tomas Jurco, one year $750,000
  • July 1: RC Gaetan Haas, one year $925,000
  • July 16: RW Josh Archibald, one year $1,000,000
  • September 5: LC Riley Sheahan, one year $900,000

Holland grabbed his goalie, then a couple of veteran who could play a two-way game, a guy he knew in Jurco and a guy he remembered in Haas. When restricted players weren’t qualified he signed Josh Archibald (his best signing) and then, late in free agency, signed his checking center Sheahan. Back in May, he signed SHL winger Joakim Nygard after the club won his rights over several other teams.

Patience is good. Among players who are unrestricted free agents, attractive targets include Robin Lehner, Jacob Markstrom, Anton Khudobin, Thomas Greiss, Cam Talbot, Aaron Dell. That’s 6.

Trade possibilities may include Darcy Kuemper, Jake Allen, Elvis Merzlikins, Linus Ullmark, James Reimer, Frederik Andersen, Anders Nilsson, Petr Mrazek. That’s 8.

I would be impatient to acquire Kuemper, after that waiting it out and getting someone later is the better plan. More dollars made available for the No. 3 center and winger for McDavid, although Athanasiou might just get extended to cover the winger spot.

Zahorak is a worthy follow, although Swedish Poster is brilliant with the updates. I think it’s safe to begin discussions about Broberg being NHL-ready for 2021-22. What does that do to the Oilers depth chart at LHD? Will that impact this year’s offseason movies? Not sure.

NEEDS LIST

All of this OEL talk has me thinking the Holland needs list differs from mine. I have two-way winger for 97, goaltender and No. 3 center as the list, but it’s clear “minute muncher” on defense is on Holland’s list and OEL might be a target.

  • Goaltender (Koskinen is a suitable goalie, so there’s no panic)
  • No. 3 center (This should be a clear priority despite the lack of options)
  • Two-way or scoring winger (If Athanasiou signs, he may be part of the solution)
  • Stud defenseman (late addition, searing cost)

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, we hit the ground running for the weekend, TSN1260. Steve Lansky from Inside the Truck Podcast will join me at 10:20 to talk about the SCF’s and how best to hand out the Stanley without a crowd. Matt Iwanyk from TSN1260 will pop in at 11 to chat Raptors, NFL Week One and the latest from inside the bubble. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.

We’ll also have the $20,000 Mystery Moment at 10:15, your chance to win cash with that gigantic sports brain of yours. We’re at $1,000! THAT’S REAL MONEY! Text in at 10-1260 with the secret word, then we’ll call you, play a clip from a famous sports moment and ask you for a detailed answer.

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155 Responses to "Lost In The Supermarket"

  1. rocket says:

    definition wocce?

  2. Lowetide says:

    rocket:
    definition wocce?

    Highway. I wanted blacktop but translate wouldn’t give me one.

  3. fistycuff says:

    OEL would be a huge mistake. It would be a move, and contract, similar to the Lucic signing. Aging player with boat anchor contract. Wish this rumour would just stop already. Just my opinion. .

  4. TheGreatBigMac says:

    A mentor for the young D would be very nice. Green was a good play, too bad it didn’t work out. Shattenkirk seems like an option, lots of quality minutes not too expensive. Maybe we upgrade from Benning. Is he good enough defensively to replace Larsson? Would he sign here?

  5. jp says:

    Should Chiasson be included in the July 1st additions?

    Holland reportedly looked at other targets then circled back.

  6. Elgin R says:

    Holland needs to show, and execute, the patience he displayed last off season.

    OEL Talk:
    Is he good? Yes.
    Would he be a good addition to the Oilers? Yes.
    Is his age and contract a good fit for the Oilers? No
    Stop this trade talk right now.

    Oilers Defence:
    Was it better last year that it has been since the Human Rake was here. Yes
    Are more internal upgrades coming? Yes
    Let this grow internally and evaluate next off season for changes

  7. JJS says:

    We have been chasing the dream no.1 defenceman since Pronger left.

    Most of these guys don’t come via trade – at least not once established in their careers. Seth Jones may be the best example of catching the curve at the perfect time.

    OEL is past his apex. I think Pieterangelo is close also.

    Draft and develop…

  8. jp says:

    I don’t think OEL is a good target either.

    7 more years at $8.25M. He’s 29 now so the final year of the deal he’d play at age 35.

    He’s a good skater so maybe his drop off in his 30’s won’t be as sharp as for some.

    That leads to my question:

    What would folks here pay ($$) for OELs age 29-35 seasons?

    How much would Arizona have to retain for it to make sense? $2M? (not that that’s a realistic expectation).

  9. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    If Broberg could “arrive early” (sometime in 21-22) that would put the Oilers in EVEN BETTER position to start dealing from the LD pile to address other roster issues.

    I think at some point Klef will be traded and probably 1 or 2 of the fine LD prospects. I think Nurse will be kept mostly because he brings an element that others in the LD pile don’t – “potential serious nasty”. Trading Klef with a year or two left on his contract would probably get a very good return for a position of need. (Before getting crapped on – I don’t want to trade him, I like him, just trying to read the tea leaves…)

    Maybe something like this in 22-23 (in no particular order)

    Primary LD
    Nurse
    Broberg (on 2nd year of ELC)
    Jones (1st year of new contract without arbitration rights)

    Support crew, some combo of
    Sammy (who could be pushing hard at this point)
    Maybe Lag (but doubt they can keep him in limbo for this long)
    Maybe Lennstrom and Niemelainen are still in the mix too…
    Probably some “new” recent draft picks start getting to AHL…

    I am not sure Lag, Lennstrom and Niemelainen would have long NHL careers but I think 2 of 3 are “too good” to be career AHLers…

    At that point in time…

    Primary RD
    Bear
    Bouch
    hopefully a vet (ideally a healthy Larsson on good contract, not likely to happen)
    Maybe Berglund is in the mix

    Support
    Kesselring, Kemp
    Some “new” recent draft picks..

  10. russ99 says:

    I’d be up for an upgrade to the defense corps, but we really can’t force a younger player into a role he can’t handle, reminds me of MacT.

  11. Bruce McCurdy says:

    jp:
    Should Chiasson be included in the July 1st additions?

    Holland reportedly looked at other targets then circled back.

    Good point. Even as Chiasson (& Khaira) signed relatively early on Jul 01, he technically went UFA first. As I recall some of the other alternatives (Connolly?) were signed early in the day, then news came down on the Chiasson renewal.

    Number me among the seeming few who think Chiasson covered that $2.15 million bet. He was a useful depth forward at 5v5 with great fancies on the defensive side of the puck who was money in the net-front role on the Oilers’ historically good powerplay.

  12. jp says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick: I think at some point Klef will be traded and probably 1 or 2 of the fine LD prospects. I think Nurse will be kept mostly because he brings an element that others in the LD pile don’t – “potential serious nasty”. Trading Klef with a year or two left on his contract would probably get a very good return for a position of need. (Before getting crapped on – I don’t want to trade him, I like him, just trying to read the tea leaves…)

    I agree, I think that’s the most likely scenario as well.

  13. Munny says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Good point, Bruce.

    I have no problem with the player or how he performed this past season.

    I don’t even have a problem with what Katz paid him. I only wish the contract number was more tradeable… especially now we are in a flat cap situation and with Neal offering much of the same skill-set (and being even more untradeable).

  14. jp says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Good point. Even as Chiasson (& Khaira) signed relatively early on Jul 01, he technically went UFA first. As I recall some of the other alternatives (Connolly?) were signed early in the day, then news came down on the Chiasson renewal.

    Number me among the seeming few who think Chiasson covered that $2.15 million bet. He was a useful depth forward at 5v5 with great fancies on the defensive side of the puck who was money in the net-front role on the Oilers’ historically good powerplay.

    Yeah, IIRC Holland was reported to have offered Connolly the same money the Panthers did but for 3 years instead of 4. After Connolly chose Miami then Holland re-signed Chiasson.

    I’m *fine* with the Chiasson deal and agree he provided value to the team this past season. At the same time I’d prefer Holland had an extra $2.15M to spend this July 1st (err, Oct 15th??) than having Chiasson locked up for another year.

  15. godot10 says:

    jp:
    I don’t think OEL is a good target either.

    7 more years at $8.25M. He’s 29 now so the final year of the deal he’d play at age 35.

    He’s a good skater so maybe his drop off in his 30’s won’t be as sharp as for some.

    That leads to my question:

    What would folks here pay ($$) for OELs age 29-35 seasons?

    How much would Arizona have to retain for it to make sense? $2M? (not that that’s a realistic expectation).

    Klefbom, Kassian, and Puljujarvi for Ekman-Larsson.

  16. jp says:

    Munny:
    I only wish the contract number was more tradeable… especially now we are in a flat cap situation and with Neal offering much of the same skill-set (and being even more untradeable).

    I’d guess we see a decent amount of Neal-3C-Chiasson next season (whether that 3C is Haas/Khaira or whether Holland can find a way to make another addition).

  17. jp says:

    godot10: Klefbom, Kassian, and Puljujarvi for Ekman-Larsson.

    Do you mean you’d pay (my question in the post you quoted) OEL $8.25M, while trading Arizona Klefbom, Kassian and Puljujarvi?

  18. Woogie63 says:

    I see the need list different than Lowetide;

    1. GOALIE that can deliver above .915 over 41 games AND contract is movable/short to allow Konovalo next year.

    A. Griess for $3M x2 for 1B goalie – no assets out, history says he can deliver 41 games

    2. WINGER for Connor to be READY for the play-offs next year – Good passer to get puck to Connor, responsible defensively.

    A. Platoon Benson and Neal on the LW until Benson is ready – Neal will have to commit to a more defensive style when he plays. When Benson plays, Driasaitl’s line will play the other team’s top line.

    3. Use INTERNAL solutions – you can’t airlift 8 players each year and have a team.

    A -Sign JP $1.2M X 2 – Haas and Nygard have set the market, Jesse is worth the tiny premium, 2 year contract is tradable or long enough to assess.
    – Sign AA $3Mx2 this protects the asset – Kassian, Chiasson set the market – more than good enough to play on the 3rd line and then play up the line-up when injuries come
    – Bear $1.2M x 2 – that is all we got – he looked good for 50 games – “show me”
    – Benning $1.9x 2 – We are one year away from the defense being a strength, but things have to fall right and we know what we have with Benning
    – Bouchard as 2RHD, we don’t have a #1 dman, but the have three above average pairings, with improved puck moving as skill on each pairing
    – Lagesson $.8M x 2 small raise for a 6/7 deman
    – Kuffner $.925M – Can bury this in AHL
    – Marody to 3C – 97+29 play 43 minutes a night, use Haas as 4C (RHC) and give him 2 more minutes a night, that leaves Marody about 10-12 minutes a night to center talented fast wingers

    4. Get FASTER – We need to have the puck more to draw more penalties

    A – Yamamoto, AA, JP, Haas, Jones, Bouchard’s passing are all upgrades vs. 19/20

    5. Get more 2nd ROUND PICKS

    A – Chiasson to Ottawa and Russell with $1.5M retained to WInnipeg keeps the conveyor belt going

    Hopkins-Driasaitl-Yamamoto
    Benson-McDavid-Kassian
    AA-Marody- Puljujarvi
    Nygard-Haas-Archibald
    Neal-Khaira

    Nurse-Larsson
    Klefbom-Bouchard
    Jones-Bear
    Benning

    Koskinen
    Griess

    $80.2M cap

  19. dustrock says:

    http://www.puckiq.com/players/8475171

    OEL is kind of a weird player but generally speaking if I understand Woodmoney correctly at this point, he doesn’t look elite to me.

    Maybe last year was a bad year, but even the previous season where he was 53% DFF% against elites, he was 46% for middle and gritensity.

    Granted Klefbom isn’t looking amazing either with the Puck IQ numbers, but it’s comparable, and he’s got a much better contract.

    I just don’t see it.

    Interesting Pietrangelo’s only 50%+ season against Elites was 2016-17.

    He’s superior to both, but his next contract is going to be a Weber/Seabrook type contract that will be an anchor.

  20. dustrock says:

    Also, OEL gets some pretty decent goaltending numbers to back him up.

    Not convinced OEL with Mike Smith (c. 2020) would be a good look for the Oilers.

  21. godot10 says:

    jp: Do you mean you’d pay (my question in the post you quoted) OEL $8.25M, while trading Arizona Klefbom, Kassian and Puljujarvi?

    Yes…a great contract, a bad contract, and a good prospect for OEL with no retention.

  22. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    godot10: Yes…a great contract, a bad contract, and a good prospect for OEL with no retention.

    As much as you would love to get rid of Kass, that is not the best way to do it 😉

  23. pts2pndr says:

    godot10: Klefbom, Kassian, and Puljujarvi for Ekman-Larsson.

    It’s not about the player! It’s about the 8.2 cap hit for the next seven years that ties your hands and is as onerous in the final 2-3 years as was Lucic and virtually unmovable. You also have to find the money to replace the right wing spot that Kassian filled. Flat cap and cap strapped team OEL just doesn’t fit!

  24. Munny says:

    Sports fading fast in public support according to Gallup Polls:

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/319256/farming-rises-sports-tumbles-industry-ratings.aspx

    Only pharmaceutical companies and the Federal government are rated more poorly by the general public (understandably in both cases lol).

    The poll was conducted and published prior to the booing during last night’s NFL season-opening game. If you are unaware of that particular situation, I recommend you Duckduckgo it, as out of respect for LT I will be providing zero details.

    Naturally the MSM is confused by what all this means. Luckily for them, the News Media industry doesn’t get a rating.

  25. Material Elvis says:

    pts2pndr: It’s not about the player! It’s about the 8.2 cap hit for the next seven years that ties your hands and is as onerous in the final 2-3 years as was Lucic and virtually unmovable. You also have to find the money to replace the right wing spot that Kassian filled. Flat cap and cap strapped team OEL just doesn’t fit!

    Money out equals money in. Klefbom = $4.1M, Kassian = $3.2M. That’s not too far off $8.2M. I doubt they would want Kassian at that price. I wouldn’t want OEL because of that contract but he is definitely an upgrade on Klefbom.

  26. Bag of Pucks says:

    Thanks LT, Lost in the Supermarket is one of those all time earworms for me. Once planted, I’m humming it all day.

    Love the lyric: “I wasn’t born so much as I fell out.”

    That line could describe Chiarelli’s roster building strategy.

  27. Jaxon says:

    In case anyone is interested here is my compilation of 16 Mock Drafts and the percentages available to Edmonton.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kt908SMIVzlhsZMIpTAq1Np3ujXtiGLuHiXcZ6_3jN0/edit?usp=sharing

  28. OriginalPouzar says:

    Philip Broberg with a first period goal!!!!! 1-1 after one!

    Lavoie starting up on the 3rd line in today’s exhibition game:

    https://twitter.com/rogle_bk/status/1304436070130515975

    Yarsolav Lokomotiv is playing but looks like they continue to rotate goalies as Konovalov is the back-up – they are down 2-0 early – Ilya would have had it.

    I don’t see Ryan McLeod in the lineup for EV Zug today or Maksimov for Zvezda Moskva and it looks like Sodertalje’s game has been postponed (Bouchard).

  29. Eh Team says:

    godot10: Yes…a great contract, a bad contract, and a good prospect for OEL with no retention.

    Are we sure OEL is even better than Klefboom? It’s not clear that he is plus you have a huge commitment in years to a post peak player.

  30. Bag of Pucks says:

    Munny,

    Imagine a world where rather than booing, fans locked arms with the fans on either side of them regardless of their race, creed or colour.

    If fans did that, it starts to signal actual societal change about racial equality and brings us a step closer to not needing demonstrations as reminders of the inequality.

    But let’s be real, there’s a massive chunk of the population that isn’t interested in meaningful action on this. A ‘shut up and play’ mentality maintains their preferred status quo.

    If I’m the NBA or NFL, i would consider it a win if less MAGA morons are watching.

  31. OriginalPouzar says:

    Broberg’s goal – maybe we should convert him to a forward…..

    https://twitter.com/antonj85/status/1304454101279879171

  32. TheGreatBigMac says:

    Woogie63,

    This plan is reasonable except Marody, a proven 3C would be a lot better. Marody had a down year last year, let him recover in the Bake (or can we get him an Euro assignment?) and earn his next call up. We can try him if/when he does or as circumstances dictate.

  33. OriginalPouzar says:

    No, no, no to the acquisition cost on Murray and the likely contract in the $5M or even more range – suggested a potential for even $6M in arbitrtion.

    I had concerns at him with a nominal raise over his QO (just under $4M) let alone a bigger AAV.

    If the Oilers are going to spend material assets on a goalie, I’m looking at Merzlikins/Korpisalo. Throw in Josh Anderson and lets make a deal.

  34. godot10 says:

    Eh Team: Are we sure OEL is even better than Klefboom?It’s not clear that he is plus you have a huge commitment in years to a post peak player.

    Most people would say yes. His play last year was subpar because of lingering effects from knee surgery in the summer of 2019

    https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29429262/healthy-oliver-ekman-larsson-ready-help-coyotes

  35. Eh Team says:

    godot10: Most people would say yes. His play last year was subpar because of lingering effects from knee surgery in the summer of 2019

    We would be paying a player for his age 29-36 years based on his past performance. Yeah, he’s still a good player but he’s in his declining years. The best you can hope for is a slow decline. That’s going to be be a contract that he is very unikely to live up to and we are in a flat cap world.

    I’m not sure how this qualifies as a good idea.

  36. jp says:

    godot10: Yes…a great contract, a bad contract, and a good prospect for OEL with no retention.

    I wouldn’t do that deal, though I’ll certainly agree OEL is an upgrade on Klefbom.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Philip Broberg with a first period goal!!!!! 1-1 after one!

    Lavoie starting up on the 3rd line in today’s exhibition game:

    https://twitter.com/rogle_bk/status/1304436070130515975

    Yarsolav Lokomotiv is playing but looks like they continue to rotate goalies as Konovalov is the back-up – they are down 2-0 early – Ilya would have had it.

    I don’t see Ryan McLeod in the lineup for EV Zug today or Maksimov for Zvezda Moskva and it looks like Sodertalje’s game has been postponed (Bouchard).

    Konovalov in to the game after Isayev lets in two early goals…

  38. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    No, no, no to the acquisition cost on Murray and the likely contract in the $5M or even more range – suggested a potential for even $6M in arbitrtion.

    I had concerns at him with a nominal raise over his QO (just under $4M) let alone a bigger AAV.

    If the Oilers are going to spend material assets on a goalie, I’m looking at Merzlikins/Korpisalo. Throw in Josh Anderson and lets make a deal.

    Why would Columbus break up their tandem next year, when the NHL might be playing compressed season segments in bubbles requiring two goaltenders?

    One of those goaltenders will always be tradeable before the expansion draft because they are signed to great contracts.

    I think Kekelainen will let them battle it out next year for the long term job in Columbus.

  39. pts2pndr says:

    Material Elvis: Money out equals money in.Klefbom = $4.1M, Kassian = $3.2M.That’s not too far off $8.2M.I doubt they would want Kassian at that price.I wouldn’t want OEL because of that contract but he is definitely an upgrade on Klefbom.

    Yes but now you are looking for two wingers instead of one with 4 million less cap and still no solution for your 3C or back up goalie. The priority as I see it is to fill the holes first then upgrade if able. Not to mention the almost one million in cap space plus asset out in JP.

  40. Eh Team says:

    godot10: Why would Columbus break up their tandem next year, when the NHL might be playing compressed season segments in bubbles requiring two goaltenders?

    It’s difficult to plan for next year because no one knows what the season will look like. The covid situation will likely not be any better and probably worse given that people will be indoors more and that will increase the risk substantially.

    A full season seems very unlikely even if it is compressed. The goal probably will be to get some kind of season in followed by playoffs. Something like baseball looks like this year, including the lack of minor league play.

  41. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: Yes…a great contract, a bad contract, and a good prospect for OEL with no retention.

    As long as guys like Reaves and Wilson grace the ice, Kassian is likely going nowhere.

    If the Lightning beefed up it must be a real thing.

  42. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OEL’s age, contract and a knee surgery, what could possibly go wrong?

  43. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Klef is a good player.

    If he brought back a significant player to shore up goal or forwards would the team be worse?

    I’m not sure given how things have been going the drop off from Klef to Jones is that big. Of course jones is unproven. But it’s one year. Bro is coming sooner rather than later.

    The Oiler D has decent depth. There is a bigger issue with uneven and not good enough play from the forwards which impacts D and goalies.

    Which is my issue with players like Chiasson. He’s a decent safe player. Nothing much happens when he’s on the ice. He’s slow. They need more pop and ability to apply pressure from the bottom 6.

  44. OriginalPouzar says:

    As per Rogule Twitter (via Google Translate):

    GOAL! Nils Höglander hits 2-2 from close range in powerplay after a heavy shot from Raphaël Lavoie

    Congrats to Lavoie on his first professional point – although, not really, just exhibition – still!

  45. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As per Rogule Twitter (via Google Translate):

    GOAL! Nils Höglander hits 2-2 from close range in powerplay after a heavy shot from Raphaël Lavoie

    Congrats to Lavoie on his first professional point – although, not really, just exhibition – still!

    Thanks for your updates I really enjoy them. It looks like Broberg is going to turn up the offence this year.

  46. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Sports are people’s diversion from politics, among other more quotidian things.

    Once Sports are politicized (which comes with the stench of monetizing politics), it no longer functions as a diversion. It is a thing without inherent purpose.

    Considering Covid and everything society has gone through this summer, Sports should be leading this poll, and yet despite all the heroic efforts to get going in face of the pandemic, and the complete lack of content competition from other sources, the industry has plummeted to the bottom.

  47. Jordan says:

    Jaxon,

    Thanks for sharing Jaxon

    Disapinted to see that it looks like the Oilers will have their choice of Holloway or Guile… I like Jarvis, and have time for Zary Amirov and Bourque.

    Honestly my preferred course is to trade down, but I don’t see a good trading partner just now. But, I said the same thing last year and have warmed up a lot to where Broberg is at as a prospect, so what do I know?

  48. flyfish1168 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Broberg’s goal – maybe we should convert him to a forward…..

    https://twitter.com/antonj85/status/1304454101279879171

    Reminds me of the famous Bobby Orr goal in reverse angle

  49. dustrock says:

    Ken Holland cackling like Emperor Palpatine right now

  50. flyfish1168 says:

    godot10: Most people would say yes.His play last year was subpar because of lingering effects from knee surgery in the summer of 2019

    https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/29429262/healthy-oliver-ekman-larsson-ready-help-coyotes

    Downhill side is a slippery slope

  51. Bag of Pucks says:

    Munny:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Sports are people’s diversion from politics, among other more quotidian things.

    Once Sports are politicized(which comes with the stench of monetizing politics), it no longer functions as a diversion.It is a thing without inherent purpose.

    Considering Covid and everything society has gone through this summer, Sports should be leading this poll, and yet despite all the heroic efforts to get going in face of the pandemic, and the complete lack of content competition from other sources, the industry has plummeted to the bottom.

    I don’t view people wanting equality as ‘politics.’

    The poll you posted indicated older whites are those most polling negative.

    That’s good. That’s where the complacency on this issue is most entrenched. If sports is no longer proving a safe retreat for their white privilege, they may need to consider alternate worldviews.

    Pretty sad state of affairs when people locking arms in unity is a cause for derision not celebration.

  52. buck yoakam says:

    Woogie63,

    I like the cut of your jib!…I think this scenario is far more likely with holland…

  53. PennersPancakes says:

    Munny:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Sports are people’s diversion from politics, among other more quotidian things.

    Once Sports are politicized(which comes with the stench of monetizing politics), it no longer functions as a diversion.It is a thing without inherent purpose.

    Considering Covid and everything society has gone through this summer, Sports should be leading this poll, and yet despite all the heroic efforts to get going in face of the pandemic, and the complete lack of content competition from other sources, the industry has plummeted to the bottom.

    Sports and politics isnt a new thing.

    – Every Olympics ever? (Especially 1936, just ask Jesse Owens)(1968 ask Tommie Smith)(1980 ask the Russians)(1972 ask the Israelis)
    – Summit Series
    – Muhammad Ali and Vietnam
    – Jackie Robinson
    – Billie Jean King
    – Robbie Rogers
    – National anthems playing for games between cities with players not from those countries?
    – Military appreciation nights
    – Obviously everything in the last few years with Kaepernick (VP Pences “walkout”)
    – Championship teams visiting the White House

    Sports always has and always will have a purpose even with moments of extra political involvement.

  54. godot10 says:

    Scungilli Slushy: As long as guys like Reaves and Wilson grace the ice, Kassian is likely going nowhere.

    If the Lightning beefed up it must be a real thing.

    Kassian doesn’t protect anybody. Saad and Kubalik ran all over the Oilers, and the petit Chicago D were flying all over the ice. And he has no interest in blocking a point shot.

    Russell can do his job. The Chicago D would have at least know there were opposition forwards on the ice.

  55. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Why would Columbus break up their tandem next year, when the NHL might be playing compressed season segments in bubbles requiring two goaltenders?

    One of those goaltenders will always be tradeable before the expansion draft because they are signed to great contracts.

    I think Kekelainen will let them battle it out next year for the long term job in Columbus.

    Why? To help improve the team – trading for a position of depth/strength to improve in other areas.

    Merzlikins is actually exempt for expansion.

    CBJ has some high talent tending prospects in behind these guys as well.

    They very well may keep both or they very well may look to move one for value – we don’t know.

  56. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    You don’t seem to be capable of discussing this in general, abstract terms and what it means for Sports,

    Have a nice day.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Konovalov in to the game after Isayev lets in two early goals…

    Konovalov came in early afer Isayev gave up two in the first 7 minutes.

    Illya only gave up one goal (the 4th goal was on an empty net)- not sure exactly how many shots but I think apx 20.

    While he may take the L (the goal he gave up was the 3rd in the 4-2 loss), it looks like another strong performance from the rising prospect.

  58. Ribs says:

    Seravalli with an oustanding piece about Sam Pollock positioning himself for the not-to-be Gretzky draft…

    https://www.tsn.ca/was-legendary-montreal-canadiens-gm-targeting-wayne-gretzky-for-1980-draft-1.1522679

  59. Bag of Pucks says:

    Munny:
    Bag of Pucks,

    You don’t seem to be capable of discussing this in general, abstract terms and what it means for Sports,

    Have a nice day.

    You too! Be the change you want to see in this world. 😎

  60. Ray says:

    any trade with Klefbom involved would be painful…

    but if Kenny has an opportunity to upgrade him, he has to take it.

    Parayko would be a preferred target over OEL though. Klef plus more might give the blues an adequate replacement for Parayko and some more salary space to sign their captain

  61. OriginalPouzar says:

    fistycuff:
    OEL would be a huge mistake.It would be a move, and contract, similar to the Lucic signing.Aging player with boat anchor contract.Wish this rumour would just stop already.Just my opinion..

    Personally, I think its an aggressive use of the word “rumor” as far as OEL and the Oilers relate.

    I mean, the “rumor” is that Arizona would be opening to move him and OEL may be open to move. There hasn’t been any sort of “rumor” that Holland has inquired or that he would be interested – just speculative talk by the MSM, blogging community, etc.

    Not “disparaging” the talk – might as well chat about it – but i don’t think there has even been smoke.

  62. dustrock says:

    Yeah if’ we’re talking Parayko or Ekblad for Klefbom, I’m listening.

  63. Rickety Cricket says:

    Listening to London Calling. I have it cranked up to 11—what a great album. Thanks!

  64. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: Personally, I think its an aggressive use of the word “rumor” as far as OEL and the Oilers relate.

    I mean, the “rumor” is that Arizona would be opening to move him and OEL may be open to move. There hasn’t been any sort of “rumor” that Holland has inquired or that he would be interested – just speculative talk by the MSM, blogging community, etc.

    Not “disparaging” the talk – might as well chat about it – but i don’t think there has even been smoke.

    The rumor is Arizona wants to shed salary and OEL is one of the big salaries they are trying to shed. They are trying to shed the salary and not just trade for the sake of trading

  65. JimmyV1965 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Broberg’s goal – maybe we should convert him to a forward…..

    https://twitter.com/antonj85/status/1304454101279879171

    What a goal!!! Lots of skill on display there.

  66. pts2pndr says:

    godot10: Kassian doesn’t protect anybody.Saad and Kubalik ran all over the Oilers, and the petit Chicago D were flying all over the ice.And he has no interest in blocking a point shot.

    Russell can do his job.The Chicago D would have at least know there were opposition forwards on the ice.

    Sometimes the guard dog is muzzled by the boss!

  67. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Munny,

    Imagine a world where rather than booing, fans locked arms with the fans on either side of them regardless of their race, creed or colour.

    If fans did that, it starts to signal actual societal change about racial equality and brings us a step closer to not needing demonstrations as reminders of the inequality.

    But let’s be real, there’s a massive chunk of the population that isn’t interested in meaningful action on this. A ‘shut up and play’ mentality maintains their preferred status quo.

    If I’m the NBA or NFL, i would consider it a win if less MAGA morons are watching.

    It must feel nice to know that your sports are set to become a lot cheaper. Just as soon as those pesky white men are resettled – to the East.

  68. OriginalPouzar says:

    Elgin R:
    Holland needs to show, and execute, the patience he displayed last off season.

    OEL Talk:
    Is he good?Yes.
    Would he be a good addition to the Oilers?Yes.
    Is his age and contract a good fit for the Oilers?No
    Stop this trade talk right now.

    Oilers Defence:
    Was it better last year that it has been since the Human Rake was here.Yes
    Are more internal upgrades coming?Yes
    Let this grow internally and evaluate next off season for changes

    This shift in minutes/responsibility from Larsson, Benning, Russell to Bear, Bouchard and Jones is going to be material – changing the dynamic of the back-end to making it, well, more dynamic.

    Its already started with Bear taking a top 4 RW spot and Jones starting to take over from Russell.

    Jones increasing his role and Bouchad starting to get his is going to continue to transform the back-end.

    Nurse/Klef may be the 4th-5th best puck transitioners on the team this season – that will be impressive.

    No need to overhaul the D.

  69. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: Yeah, IIRC Holland was reported to have offered Connolly the same money the Panthers did but for 3 years instead of 4. After Connolly chose Miami then Holland re-signed Chiasson.

    I’m *fine* with the Chiasson deal and agree he provided value to the team this past season. At the same time I’d prefer Holland had an extra $2.15M to spend this July 1st (err, Oct 15th??) than having Chiasson locked up for another year.

    There is a non-zero chance that, given the cap situation:

    – AA is replaced by Benson ($2M plus savings).

    – Chiasson is replaced by Puljujarvi (apx $1M savings subject to retaining on an Chiasson trade).

    I’ve been on the “willing to keep AA at $3M” train, and still am, however, if the pennies need to be pinched in that regard, I could see the above (not walking from AA but a trade for a non-roster asset – unless, of course, CBJ still wants him in a J. Anderson deal).

  70. Bag of Pucks says:

    hunter1909: It must feel nice to know that your sports are set to become a lot cheaper. Just as soon as those pesky white men are resettled – to the East.

    On one side of this, there’s Donald Trump, on the other Spike Lee. I would love a world where we could co-exist nestled safely between those two extremes.

    Imo, fear is one of the key drivers behind racism, but you will rarely find a racist willing to admit that uncomfortable truth.

  71. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Twenty-two minute video released today by the Oilers where Tony Brar interviews Tyler Wright one on one about the draft. I’ll post a loose transcription for those who don’t want to watch it all or can’t.

    Source:
    https://youtu.be/VNBEpbudYrw

    Tony Brar: how has Covid impacted the draft process?

    Tyler Wright: 2020 has been a different year for everybody. It has been challenging, but at the same time all 31 teams have been facing the same challenges. We know it’s an important part of our season. The most important part of a scout’s season is the draft and to make sure you have enough preparation. Just trying to be creative and coming up with new ideas, new ways of thinking. Some of these European kids are actually playing and starting up again right now. It’s been challenging, it’s exciting. We know we’re going to get a good player. We’ve got to make sure we’re prepared and ready to go for the 9th and 10th.

    TB: What have you done differently?

    TW: I’ve reached out to all the scouts and give them time to think when this pandemic put a halt on things. Try to come up with new ideas, bring something to me that we think that we can use to improve our staff, improve our way of thinking. Utilizing different platforms as far as video conferencing, video scouting, all these different things. So there is a lot of good stuff that we have done that we’ll continue to implement into our program going on, and there’s stuff that we look back at, revisit some drafts. Obviously this is my first year working with this group of guys here. So we’ve had a learning curve for both myself and our scouts, trying to implement our philosophy that we want and how we want to scout and how we want to create our lists. It’s been challenging, it’s been exciting, it’s been good dialogue. Obviously with the 14th pick there’s 13 decisions to be made before us but we’re pretty confident we’re going to get a pretty good player.

    TB: How are you feeling about the calibre of player that should be available in and around that 14th overall pick?

    TW: It’s a good mix in this draft of forwards, defence, goalie. We’re going to have good options when it comes down to 14, that it’s … the same boring dialogue, same cliche, but at the end of the day you have to take the best player that we deem as a staff at that particular spot. Obviously there are other things that come into play. A lot of time the draft is, the teams are done playing, it’s kind of a salary cap tool where people are trading players and picks. There’s obviously an opportunity for us either to move up or to move back. We don’t have a second in this year’s draft, we have to make a decision with our third round pick in the James Neal draft [pick]. We either have to give it up this year or next year. We’ve got some decisions to be made here, and that will really get the ball rolling in the first week of October and leading up and into the draft.

    TB: Is there an appetite to maybe acquire more draft picks with how deep this draft class may be, or are you comfortable with where you’re at right now?

    TW: As scouts, we’re always pounding the table for more picks, but at the end of the day you have to be realistic with where we’re at as a franchise — where we need to improve, how we’re going to improve/go about doing that. I think we’ve made strides as a group this year, but we need to get better. It’s going to start with us in this draft, there’s always good players that go later. We’ve got to make sure that we’re turning every stone over and giving us that opportunity to make that pick. At the end of the day if Ken Holland deems to get us some more picks because we really like some players, I think he’s going to do whatever he can. At the same time you have be prepared to play the cards that you’re dealt, and right now that’s no second, no third no fourth. Can we recoup some later in the draft by going back, that’s a possibility. Do you move up if a guy slides, all that’s kinda time sensitive to when the draft actually starts.

    TB: That pick will go to CGY in 2020 or 2021 … how much dialogue have you had with Ken Holland about that?

    TW: Obviously I talk to Ken on almost a daily basis, but I really think that decision is probably going to be made the day of, made the day before. See how we do at 14 to see what happens, seeing who’s left on the board to be honest with you. If we deem that maybe we can forfeit the pick now and take a swing for the fences maybe later on in the draft. At the end of the day it’s really his decision if we want to just go ahead with it and make the pick or give it up right now and we move on. I really think that’s going to be a decision made just prior to the pick, to be honest.

    TB: Whoever the Oilers draft … normally they would be invited to Edmonton for Oilers development camp. What will be the next steps for this year’s Oilers draft class?

    TW: Probably getting their tote bag in the mail, maybe? [laughs] There’s so much uncertainty. We’re going to be running the draft online, myself and Ken Holland will be in our own little war room in Edmonton. Not going to have any staff around me, have them be on video or conference call on standby as far as trying to inform them, what’s going on, who do we like, and vice versa. There’s a lot of uncertainty, obviously. With the start up, we’re not really sure when training camp’s going to happen. In Europe they’re up and running already. Some of the US schools, Minnesota high schools and that stuff are starting to ramp up now. The CHL, Quebec league is starting October second, the WHL and Ontario league I think they’ve got a target date for December first. Realistically it’s going to be a draft, probably going to be some video conferencing calls maybe with their family to kind of introduce them to the Oilers organization. Kind of what we’re looking for, kind of some steps going forward as far as training, and areas of improvement and the culture we’re trying to develop in Edmonton. Everything seems to be on video conferencing as I’m having this video conference with you, and we’re going to try to relay as much information as we can and teaching and learning skills with these young men as they go back to their respective clubs and continue to work. Getting drafted is the easy part, it’s the part after — you know, I think the guy in the first round probably gets a little more press, a little more notoriety, but at the end of the day they’re grouped into a pool of players, Oilers prospect players. We’re trying to develop as many as we can, whether you’re a first or sixth or seventh round pick at the end of the day if you can make the team and contribute — that’s what we’re looking for. Every pick is vital for us, every pick is going to be to a mandate of our philosophy of how we want the Oilers to look in years coming. We need this prospect pool to continue to grow for us to be successful.

    TB: At the scouting combine, you’re able to talk to players … it offers a first hand look at the physical and mental capabilities of a player. How tough is it for the scouting staff to not have that resource available to you this year?

    TW: Yeah, it’s tough. I think you gain a lot of knowledge. I think you gain some physical knowledge as far as getting test results back and sending them to our fitness instructors — our strength and development coaches. That’s their area of expertise to see the potential of growth in these young men. A lot of them maybe have higher ceilings, some maybe have capped out. The level of maturity is such a vast difference between them. If there’s a lot of room for growth, but a lot of times it’s a longer window to develop. The one thing that we do do, is before we head into our midterm meetings in January is anybody that requires to be on your list (if you’re an area guy), you have to have a sit down meeting, you have to have an interview with them. You have to already have gotten to know them. So that’s been really vital for us, as far as we’ve had our meetings at the end of January. We go back into the field for about a month, six weeks and everything gets shut down. We actually have done a lot of the leg work, maybe not as much as we’ve wanted to do. We had some video conferencing calls with a lot of the kids, probably around the middle of April, the end of April. We’re going to circle back in the next two weeks, three weeks. We have meetings all this week, we have meetings next week. We have some pro meetings with philosophies on how we want to look at the team this week and then revisit the scouts and draft next week and put the finishing touches and maybe revisit some video conferencing from there.

    TB: Does it offer any challenges that you’re doing these interviews on video and not in person when you’re talking to the players?

    TW: Not really, I would say. I think at the end of the day we have to remember we’re dealing with 18 and 19 year old young men. I’ve got a 21 year old and a 19 year old and a 16 year old at home — they’re still trying to figure it out. Some are more polished than others, obviously. Some have been put in the spotlight a little bit more than others, you can’t use that against them. At the end of the day they’re still developing young men and you have to keep that in the back of your mind. At the end of the day, you want a passionate guy that’s committed to giving themselves every opportunity to be the best player they can be. Everybody’s different, their timelines are different. Along the way you need a lot of luck to happen. You’ve got to be put in the right position at the right time. Have the right coaches and the development and to escape injury and to make sure that it all goes accordingly. They all think they can come in and play immediately, I think some might, and some get a quick lesson at training camp. These [pro] guys are good, these guys have families, they feed their families, they have their career. They’re not going to just let some kid come in and take their spot. It’s different with the video conferencing, I think you can take a little bit on punctuality maybe? Are you early, are you late, how you’re dressed. At the same time, these are kids that are changing. They’re different kids than they’re going to be when they’re 22, 23 years old. At the end of the day we want to have the best young man that’s ready at 22 and 23 and *hopefully sooner, but that’s the ultimate goal.

    TB: Will it be BPA or draft based on position?

    TW: We go through so many different scenarios. Obviously it’s the politically right thing to say always that you need to take the best player, and it is. I don’t think that you can ever have a luxury of having too many great defensemen, too many great forwards, not enough starting goaltenders. Every position is so vital for us, obviously when you look at the organization and you look at the blueprint that we’ve got. With the guys up front with Leon and Connor, and RNH and Yamomoto taking a step this year. You have Klefbom and Nurse, and Bear taking a step and Caleb Jones taking a step. And, you know the guys that I don’t mention it’s not any slight but you’ve got a core mix of guys that you’re looking at. You’ve got Broberg and Bouchard and Lagesson, guys that are kind of waiting in the wings to come up and develop at the right time. We’ve got a good blueprint. We’ve just got to make sure that we’re adding. Those pieces are going to come from this draft at some point in time, whether they’re through the wing and down the middle, on the back end or back in net. I think we can improve in all areas, to be honest with you. I think if you look at the depth of the NHL you’re always going to need 14-15 forwards, you’re going to need 10 defensemen, you’re going to need three goaltenders. We’ve got to make sure our depth is as good as anybody and that starts at the draft table and drafting the right players.

    TB: How have the 14 months looked like since you were hired by the Oilers?

    TW: It’s been great! Obviously I was drafted by the Oilers in ’91, and it was my first team in the NHL. I’m from Saskatchewan originally, and it’s always kind of special, your first team. You go on to play with other teams, it becomes a business and it becomes your way of life. But you always kind of have soft spot for that original team. It’s been a learning curve for myself to get to know the people in the staff, both on the amateur side and the pro side. Your strength and conditioning coaches, your coaching staff, the AHL staff. So there’s been a lot of dialogue, a lot of — I wouldn’t want to say teaching, but there’s been a lot of philosophy change too. Ken Holland, I had the luxury of working with him in Detroit for the last seven, eight years and bringing that philosophy the way that he wants his team to look and just filtering that down our scouting staff. So it’s been challenging but at the same point, you know it’s an exciting time. We’ve got a great nucleus of young players and I know the city of Edmonton and the Edmonton Oilers fans know that. And I know they’re starving for some playoff action. I know that we have to make a difference at the table, we have no room for error, to be honest. We have to make sure that we’re as ready as we can be. If we walk away with our first and fifth picks and that’s it we’ve got to make sure we hit on those picks. We’ve got to make sure that we’re checking off boxes as far as our blueprint going forward. These young guys that are on the team right now, they’re just entering their prime of their career — we’ve got to give these guys something to add, and that starts with us so it’s challenging but exciting.

    TB: What does philosophy change entail?

    TW: I think, I don’t want to give all of our secrets away, but at the end of the day the way we want the Edmonton Oilers to look is different than the way the Boston Bruins want to look, different to the way the Philadelphia Flyers want to look and vice versa. We want to play with speed, we want to play with intensity and competitiveness. You have to be able to defend in this league. You look at last night, Dallas wins one nothing. So obviously there’s so many little different aspects on the way you want to look, at the way the team is. You want to have big defenders, you wan to have fast defenders, you want to have guys that are able to score. Guys that can win faceoffs. Those attentions to detail I think that we did pretty good at through the course of the season with the penalty killing, the special teams and goaltending. There’s so many little games within side-games that you can improve. If you can just improve one or two per cent better in those areas I think that it improves the outcome for the whole team. As far as philosophy goes, we want to be an exciting team. We want to be fast, we want to be competitive and we want to be skilled. Obviously, when you look at the draft and you pick player number one to player two hundred, I think at that stage of their development to where they are as you go later on in the draft it diminishes in all those areas. That’s why Alexis Lafreniere and these guys are rated to go one or two because they are at the top of those spectrums in those areas. It doesn’t mean that these other players later on in the rounds can’t get to there. It just might take them a little more time, a bit more developing, a little bit more structure and maturity. So that’s what we’re targeting in the way we want our team to look like going forward and we’re going to have a lot of good options.

  72. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Nurse/Klef may be the 4th-5th best puck transitioners on the team this season – that will be impressive.

    Good point. Having grown up with Paul Coffey, neither Klefbom or Nurse can deal with the puck particularly well. Nurse likes to rush with the puck but hasn’t got a clue where to go with it once he reaches the other teams zone for example lol

    Bouchard is the only Oilers defence prospect noticeable so far that can actually handle the puck in a manner that Paul Coffey would compliment.

  73. hunter1909 says:

    Of the four teams still standing I’m wondering whether Tampa winning makes the best precedent for the copycat 30 odd other teams to try to emulate.

  74. dustrock says:

    Happy 40th birthday to Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps).

    I continue to miss David Bowie.

  75. godot10 says:

    hunter1909: Good point. Having grown up with Paul Coffey, neither Klefbom or Nurse can deal with the puck particularly well. Nurse likes to rush with the puck but hasn’t got a clue where to go with it once he reaches the other teams zone for example lol

    Nurse’s boxcars and SportLogiq say that you need to get a new set of eyes, or eyeglasses.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: I’d guess we see a decent amount of Neal-3C-Chiasson next season (whether that 3C is Haas/Khaira or whether Holland can find a way to make another addition).

    As of now, Haas likely has the “inside track” on that 3C spot and, while far from a surety, I think there is a small but decent chance he could cover the bet if he stays healthy – don’t get me wrong, a Haula would be a clear upgrade but Haas’ skill-set, including being a plus PK guy in Europe, being very good defensively, being able to draw penalties, etc. line up. With a year of North America under his belt, maybe there is a chance.

    Are there 30 points in the there with AA (Benson) and Kassian (Puljujarvi)?

  77. Jaxon says:

    Jordan:
    Jaxon,

    Thanks for sharing Jaxon

    Disapinted to see that it looks like the Oilers will have their choice of Holloway or Guile… I like Jarvis, and have time for Zary Amirov and Bourque.

    Honestly my preferred course is to trade down, but I don’t see a good trading partner just now.But, I said the same thing last year and have warmed up a lot to where Broberg is at as a prospect, so what do I know?

    There is a not bad chance that Askarov is available. He was still available in 37% of the mocks. That would be my choice at #14. It looks like Lundell, Sanderson and probably Quinn will be gone as well. So your top 11 are pretty set. But someone like Zary, Jarvis, Schneider, Holloway, Mercer, Amirov, or Guhle just has to sneak in before Edmonton and it changes everything. Schneider and Guhle might sneak in just because they’re D. Jarvis might be really attractive to someone too. Holloway is one of the only players with decent size at C, so he might sneak in, and Guhle has great speed so he might climb. Right now, it looks like Bourque is the worst Edmonton will get, which is pretty awesome.

    Pretty good odds that beyond Askarov, one of Jarvis, Zary, Mercer, Holloway, or Schneider will available. I would not trade that pick.

    Looking at Mercer, Jarvis, Holloway, Zary and Bourque highlights, I really like Zary and Jarvis and Holloway. They seems to play with way more speed. The Mercer and Bourque highlights are impressive but feel slow and kinda boring in comparison. Has anyone else watched Jarvis, Zary, Mercer, Bourque, Holloway highlights? I haven’t watched any Amirov.

  78. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Why does a 3C automatically have to score 30 points?

    Asking because it’s automatically included in your posts pertaining to the position.

  79. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Jaxon,

    I know JP has some interesting data suggesting forwards chosen in the same cohort as first round goaltenders tend to impact their team in *about the same time period.

    But considering the depth of this draft class, I’d wager a forward is more likely to step in and contribute more quickly than Askarov.

    Curious why you would choose the goaltender over a possible impact forward if both were available at 14? I’m interested in your thought process, not just for today’s teem but going forward.

  80. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey,

    *team

    RIP Edit button.

  81. dustrock says:

    godot10: Nurse’s boxcars and SportLogiq say that you need to get a new set of eyes, or eyeglasses.

    I dunno, I’ve seen dozens of passes by Nurse over the years hit the forward in the skates.

  82. leadfarmer says:

    godot10: Nurse’s boxcars and SportLogiq say that you need to get a new set of eyes, or eyeglasses.

    Do you have the numbers so we can analyze them?
    Nurse is good at skating the puck out of the zone but unfortunately that is the slowest least efficient way and gives the defense time to get set up

  83. godot10 says:

    dustrock: I dunno, I’ve seen dozens of passes by Nurse over the years hit the forward in the skates.

    #AvailabilityBias

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

    Plagues Oilerdom when a home grown players turns 25, particularly D, and all they recall is the perceived flaws in the player.

  84. godot10 says:

    leadfarmer: Do you have the numbers so we can analyze them?
    Nurse is good at skating the puck out of the zone but unfortunately that is the slowest least efficient way and gives the defense time to get set up

    Gregor had a two-part series at OilerNation

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/26/the-nhls-top-puck-movers-and-puck-transporters/

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/27/zone-entries-that-lead-to-shots-and-scoring-chances/

  85. Lowetide says:

    dustrock:
    Happy 40th birthday to Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps).

    I continue to miss David Bowie.

    Great album.

  86. BONE207 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I don’t view people wanting equality as ‘politics.’

    The poll you posted indicated older whites are those most polling negative.

    That’s good. That’s where the complacency on this issue is most entrenched. If sports is no longer proving a safe retreat for their white privilege, they may need to consider alternate worldviews.

    Pretty sad state of affairs when people locking arms in unity is a cause for derision not celebration.

    There will never be true equality until there are a few white kids named Mookie…🤣

    As for oilers young prospects in Europe, I like the early results. Maybe some of these kids will be ready for the next NHL season if it starts in 2021.

  87. Decidedly Skeptical Fan says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Philip Broberg with a first period goal!!!!! 1-1 after one!

    Lavoie starting up on the 3rd line in today’s exhibition game:

    https://twitter.com/rogle_bk/status/1304436070130515975

    Yarsolav Lokomotiv is playing but looks like they continue to rotate goalies as Konovalov is the back-up – they are down 2-0 early – Ilya would have had it.

    I don’t see Ryan McLeod in the lineup for EV Zug today or Maksimov for Zvezda Moskva and it looks like Sodertalje’s game has been postponed (Bouchard).

    Wow. That is elite NHL level skill. Can’t wait for that to get to EDM. And let’s be honest here, I like Nurse, but Nurse can’t make that play.

  88. DieHard says:

    godot10: Gregor had a two-part series at OilerNation

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/26/the-nhls-top-puck-movers-and-puck-transporters/

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/27/zone-entries-that-lead-to-shots-and-scoring-chances/

    Kind of makes that Broberg pick not as strange. Puts me in my place re Nurse. Thinking he must go to hey, what to pay him?

  89. hunter1909 says:

    godot10: Nurse’s boxcars and SportLogiq say that you need to get a new set of eyes, or eyeglasses.

    I don’t know much about Nurse’s electric train set but as it’s currently September and no Oilers, and with the inane way they found a new way to be losers facing the Blackhawks(something I might have warned about but hey what do I know) and Nurse’s Rocket Robin Hood level post Chicago presser not to forget the new “woke” style playoff hockey presentation and now without a crowd we can see the advertising even more since there’s little else to watch lol

  90. leadfarmer says:

    godot10: Gregor had a two-part series at OilerNation

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/26/the-nhls-top-puck-movers-and-puck-transporters/

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/27/zone-entries-that-lead-to-shots-and-scoring-chances/

    I’m confused
    In his conclusion Gregor literally says Nurse needs to improve his passing which is what everyone is saying

  91. leadfarmer says:

    leadfarmer: I’m confused
    In his conclusion Gregor literally says Nurse needs to improve his passing which is what everyone is saying

    The entire analysis shows us that he’s a puck skating D and not a puck moving D.
    Which is what most think of the player

  92. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: There is a non-zero chance that, given the cap situation:

    – AA is replaced by Benson ($2M plus savings).

    – Chiasson is replaced by Puljujarvi (apx $1M savings subject to retaining on an Chiasson trade).

    I’ve been on the “willing to keep AA at $3M” train, and still am, however, if the pennies need to be pinched in that regard, I could see the above (not walking from AA but a trade for a non-roster asset – unless, of course, CBJ still wants him in a J. Anderson deal).

    Not meaning to be picky but non zero chance is somewhat off putting in that the definition of chance makes non zero redundant.

  93. OriginalPouzar says:

    TheGreatBigMac:
    Woogie63,

    This plan is reasonable except Marody, a proven 3C would be a lot better.Marody had a down year last year, let him recover in the Bake (or can we get him an Euro assignment?) and earn his next call up. We can try him if/when he does or as circumstances dictate.

    Oh, I would anticipate that Marody is very much on the outside looking in coming in to training camp – at the same time, at least as of now, there are roster spots open for his taking.

    He had a poor regression year, no doubt, but, of course, we know that he was not “right” essentially all year long and, during the pause, was talking about finally feeling healthy for the first time.

    If he is back to “2018-19 Marody”, speed notwithstanding, he’s got a shot.

    Of course, Holland can’t and won’t go in to camp relying on him.

  94. OriginalPouzar says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Klef is a good player.

    If he brought back a significant player to shore up goal or forwards would the team be worse?

    I’m not sure given how things have been going the drop off from Klef to Jones is that big. Of course jones is unproven. But it’s one year. Bro is coming sooner rather than later.

    The Oiler D has decent depth. There is a bigger issue with uneven and not good enough play from the forwards which impacts D and goalies.

    Which is my issue with players like Chiasson. He’s a decent safe player. Nothing much happens when he’s on the ice. He’s slow. They need more pop and ability to apply pressure from the bottom 6.

    I am a fan of Caleb Jones and think that, after this coming season, he will essentially prove to be a “must-protect” and have all but solidified himself as a future 2nd pairing d-man.

    He has already shown to be able to fill in for Klef and play very well 5 on 5.

    With that said, filling if for a few week stretch and performing well (while the other top 4 pairing is relied on more) is not the same as playing 25 minutes night after night like Klefbom does.

    Even if Jones could replicate Klef’s performance on the ice in isolation – proving to be able to do that in heavy minutes, night after night after night is different.

    I do think that Jones will prove to be 2RD ready through this season but can’t say that there wouldn’t be much of a drop-off from the 25 min/game guy.

  95. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bujugstad heading to the Wild.

    Too bad, I was hoping to get him for Russell – cap hit saw off and solves the 3C (if healthy).

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wow – return on Bjugstad was a conditional 7th in 2021 and salary was retained.

    Wouldn’t make sense for the Oil without Rusty going the other way, unless it was the full 50% retained.

  97. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: You too! Be the change you want to see in this world.

    I hope it all works out for you. I’ll soon be dead, so no need to worry lol

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    Nathan MacKinnon wins the Lady Bing.

    The only hardware he’ll pick up this season – awards are soon going German!

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Drai finishes 10th in the Lady Bing voting:

    https://twitter.com/oilersaccess/status/1304569818658598912?s=21

  100. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: I am a fan of Caleb Jones and think that, after this coming season, he will essentially prove to be a “must-protect” and have all but solidified himself as a future 2nd pairing d-man.

    He has already shown to be able to fill in for Klef and play very well 5 on 5.

    With that said, filling if for a few week stretch and performing well (while the other top 4 pairing is relied on more) is not the same as playing 25 minutes night after night like Klefbom does.

    Even if Jones could replicate Klef’s performance on the ice in isolation – proving to be able to do that in heavy minutes, night after night after night is different.

    I do think that Jones will prove to be 2RD ready through this season but can’t say that there wouldn’t be much of a drop-off from the 25 min/game guy.

    It is going to be very interesting particularly if there is a very abbreviated and or no 20/21 NHL season because both Samorukov and Broberg may get his lunch money. Both their tool kits are better than Jone’s.

  101. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Bujugstad heading to the Wild.

    Too bad, I was hoping to get him for Russell – cap hit saw off and solves the 3C (if healthy).

    Bjugstad was a beast for the gophers

  102. OriginalPouzar says:

    P.S. how does a goalie get votes for the Bing? I don’t think Smith was in the running….

  103. godot10 says:

    NBA playoffs ratings have plunged, down double digits even with Lebron back in the playoffs. Mahomes-Watson mega opening day NFL ratings down over 10% from last year, with a better matchup.

    At least YuanLebron will always have his renmimbi.

  104. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Nathan MacKinnon wins the Lady Bing.

    The only hardware he’ll pick up this season – awards are soon going German!

    Saved the Professional Hockey Writers from embarrassing themselves if Captain Underpants or Tipsy Driver had won.

  105. who says:

    godot10: Klefbom, Kassian, and Puljujarvi for Ekman-Larsson.

    Huge overpay.
    I guess you hate Kassian that much.

  106. Harpers Hair says:

    Listened to an interesting interview today with Rick Dhaliwal who is very plugged in with many agents.

    He’s saying that many teams will not be tendering qualifying offers to RFAs as a way to save money.

    The market could be flooded with young UFAs.

  107. OriginalPouzar says:

    pts2pndr: Thanks for your updates I really enjoy them. It looks like Broberg is going to turn up the offence this year.

    It certainly looks like he’s going to get an ice time push and be relied upon – he has been raved about by his coach and the likes of Fredrik Olausson…..

    What was great about that goal is it showed the skill and skill with the puck – something in question with this player.

    Sure, terrible rebound by the goalie but he didn’t just put the puck on net but made a quick skill play to score.

    Good Arrow Up!

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    dustrock:
    Yeah if’ we’re talking Parayko or Ekblad for Klefbom, I’m listening.

    Well, yes, Parayko is on a MUCH better contract and fills a position of less organizational depth.

    The Oilers would need to add, of course.

  109. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m starting to get a bit excited about the potential for Konovalov to be next year’s 1B.

    I wonder what type of term Holland is thinking about for his goalie acquisition this off-season?

    I guess that depends on if he’s getting a younger guy with some a view to the future (like a CBJ goalie).

  110. vangolf says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Munny,

    Imagine a world where rather than booing, fans locked arms with the fans on either side of them regardless of their race, creed or colour.

    If fans did that, it starts to signal actual societal change about racial equality and brings us a step closer to not needing demonstrations as reminders of the inequality.

    But let’s be real, there’s a massive chunk of the population that isn’t interested in meaningful action on this. A ‘shut up and play’ mentality maintains their preferred status quo.

    If I’m the NBA or NFL, i would consider it a win if less MAGA morons are watching.

    I don’t think the booing was aimed at rejecting the common sense messages of unity and equality. I also think the vast majority of people have an ingrained sense of fairness. On this basis, I think it is more reasonable to suggest they were booing conformity mob politics, and people being cast as villains or heroes for the colour of their skin. Reasonable balanced discussion left town a while ago.

  111. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: Do you have the numbers so we can analyze them?
    Nurse is good at skating the puck out of the zone but unfortunately that is the slowest least efficient way and gives the defense time to get set up

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/26/the-nhls-top-puck-movers-and-puck-transporters/

    https://oilersnation.com/2020/08/27/zone-entries-that-lead-to-shots-and-scoring-chances/

  112. Jaxon says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Jaxon,

    I know JP has some interesting data suggesting forwards chosen in the same cohort as first round goaltenders tend to impact their team in *about the same time period.

    But considering the depth of this draft class, I’d wager a forward is more likely to step in and contribute more quickly than Askarov.

    Curious why you would choose the goaltender over a possible impact forward if both were available at 14?I’m interested in your thought process, not just for today’s teem but going forward.

    I think they key is drafting an impact forward vs drafting a franchise goalie. And as we’ve witnessed this playoff and really every playoff is that goaltending can win you or lose you playoff series. If Askarov is that goalie, and the hype around him seems to say he is, then I’d take him over an impact forward. As for timelines, I’d agree that one of the first 2 in goalies drafted in any year may have similar arrival times to a mid to late round pick. Also, I’m still drafting the most valuable player available and that is the possible franchise goalie. Askarov is possibly the next Price, Task, Ward, Giguere, Lehtonen, Vasilevsky, Hart, Crawford, or Fleury. Those are the type of players who help you win cups.

    Also, if we playing the long game and this just might be a franchise type goalie and let’s say he takes 5 years which would be on the long side for a top goalie. But for arguments sake let’s say he takes 5 years to have an impact. Well, where are we in 5 years? Maybe we’ve won a Cup, maybe we haven’t. But I’m sure we’ve at least had a couple good runs at it and have gone deep in the playoffs. Salaries have gone up but Holland has managed to hold onto a pretty decent core. But that core is all coming to the end of their contracts. How do you convince them to stay on? I think a franchise goalie like a Vasilevsky or a Samsonov or a Hart might go along way in convincing players like Stamkos, Ovechkin and Giroux to stay put. Just like an Askarov might go a long way in convincing McDavid, Draisaitl and Nurse to stay put. It’s a long play but I think it’s the right one. That said, there appears to be only about a 1/3 chance he’ll still be there at #14.

  113. OriginalPouzar says:

    Damn, Pit retained the full 50% on Bjugstad – I know all about the injuries but $2M for one year – would have been a solid be for a 3C stop gap. Damn.

  114. OriginalPouzar says:

    leadfarmer: The entire analysis shows us that he’s a puck skating D and not a puck moving D.
    Which is what most think of the player

    I believe Godot posted that in response to the suggestion that Nurse “hasn’t got a clue where to go with it once he reaches the other teams zone”.

    Now that is not an uncommon opinion but the numbers are fairly jarring with respect to the amount of scoring chances created on his zone entires and the percentage of those zone entries that lead to scoring chances. Yes, there is lots of McDavid time on ice but not a materially higher percentage than Klef.

  115. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Damn, Pit retained the full 50% on Bjugstad – I know all about the injuries but $2M for one year – would have been a solid be for a 3C stop gap. Damn.

    Would have been a good 3c for 30-50 games
    Damn injuries

  116. Bag of Pucks says:

    vangolf: I don’t think the booing was aimed at rejecting the common sense messages of unity and equality. I also think the vast majority of people have an ingrained sense of fairness. On this basis, I think it is more reasonable to suggest they were booing conformity mob politics, and people being cast as villains or heroes for the colour of their skin. Reasonable balanced discussion left town a while ago.

    I can’t speculate as to individual reasons for Missourians booing. All i know is there was no anthems being disrepected and they boo’d two teams trying to have a simple show of unity, including the home team that just won them a Super Bowl.

    I can only imagine what their biracial QB thought of it.

    Hmmm. What’s worse? Being forced to watch a show of racial solidarity at a sporting event or being shot in the back?

  117. jp says:

    pts2pndr: It is going to be very interesting particularly if there is a very abbreviated and or no 20/21 NHL season because both Samorukov and Broberg may get his lunch money. Both their tool kits are better than Jone’s.

    Sure, but so was Colten Teubert’s.

  118. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Oh, I would anticipate that Marody is very much on the outside looking in coming in to training camp – at the same time, at least as of now, there are roster spots open for his taking.

    He had a poor regression year, no doubt, but, of course, we know that he was not “right” essentially all year long and, during the pause, was talking about finally feeling healthy for the first time.

    If he is back to “2018-19 Marody”, speed notwithstanding, he’s got a shot.

    Of course, Holland can’t and won’t go in to camp relying on him.

    Marody looked good at camp. I suspect Tippet has a good handle on the medical side, so it will not be like the start of a regular year. They will have seen how much he has recovered from the 19/20 injuries.

    The thing with the line up I proposed it is filled with centers – Hopkins, Khaira, AA, Hass and Marody (McDavid, Draisaitl) provides the coach with lots of options to properly fill 10-12 minutes a night.

    The key to Marody is playing with some skilled wingers (AA, JP) so his passing and wingers can cover the ice.

    He also RHC so that is a small check mark.

  119. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I’m starting to get a bit excited about the potential for Konovalov to be next year’s 1B.

    I wonder what type of term Holland is thinking about for his goalie acquisition this off-season?

    I guess that depends on if he’s getting a younger guy with some a view to the future (like a CBJ goalie).

    Definitely depends on the acquisition. A lot of the actual UFAs are pretty old so 2 years is likely (Khudobin, Greiss).

    Great to hear Konovalov is starting out hot, if he can get back to where he was in his draft (.930) then yeah, very definitely a good candidate for 1B in 2021 or 22.

  120. vangolf says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    It is clear why munny decided not to converse with you. You end with a false equivalency that is precisely the point and (intentionally?) offensive. Tells me there is not fertile ground for discussion, so I’ll join munny.

  121. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I’m starting to get a bit excited about the potential for Konovalov to be next year’s 1B.

    I wonder what type of term Holland is thinking about for his goalie acquisition this off-season?

    I guess that depends on if he’s getting a younger guy with some a view to the future (like a CBJ goalie).

    Me as well, if the Oiler’s can secure a Smith type contract or a very tradable contract in the second year for this years 1B . The sequence could be good.

    20/21 Koskinen/“Greiss”
    21/22 Koskinen/Konovalov
    22/23 Konovalov/Rodríguez

  122. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Damn, Pit retained the full 50% on Bjugstad – I know all about the injuries but $2M for one year – would have been a solid be for a 3C stop gap. Damn.

    Pittsburgh really isn’t retaining per se. They are just paying for the 40 games Bjugstad will be on the injured list! -).

  123. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: As of now, Haas likely has the “inside track” on that 3C spot and, while far from a surety, I think there is a small but decent chance he could cover the bet if he stays healthy – don’t get me wrong, a Haula would be a clear upgrade but Haas’ skill-set, including being a plus PK guy in Europe, being very good defensively, being able to draw penalties, etc. line up. With a year of North America under his belt, maybe there is a chance.

    Are there 30 points in the there with AA (Benson) and Kassian (Puljujarvi)?

    Agreed that Haas is the most likely 3C right now. I would be shocked if Holland doesn’t add another C though. I’m pretty sure Haas/Khaira are 4C/5C on the whiteboard (in no particular order).

    Sheahan only cost $900k last off season and played ahead of Haas/Khaira. That’s the worst case scenario IMO, if Holland can’t clear cap for a “real” 3C addition. There should be more and better bargain basement players this off season too. I actually think that player, whoever he is, probably has the inside track on 3C.

    That said it’s definitely possible that Haas finds/earns the 3C spot in the end. And you never know, with good wingers 30 points could be possible.

  124. godot10 says:

    jp: Definitely depends on the acquisition. A lot of the actual UFAs are pretty old so 2 years is likely (Khudobin, Greiss).

    Great to hear Konovalov is starting out hot, if he can get back to where he was in his draft (.930) then yeah, very definitely a good candidate for 1B in 2021 or 22.

    He has got MacT finally out of his system! -).

  125. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie63: Me as well, if the Oiler’s can secure a Smith type contract or a very tradable contract in the second year for this years 1B .The sequence could be good.

    20/21 Koskinen/“Greiss”
    21/22 Koskinen/Konovalov
    22/23 Konovalov/Rodríguez

    Think Greiss and those in his “snack bracket” will be looking for a few years.

    I’d be just fine with going with Aaron Dell for one year – cheap and a good bet.

    Spend the money (if there is any to spend) elsewhere.

  126. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: Kassian doesn’t protect anybody.Saad and Kubalik ran all over the Oilers, and the petit Chicago D were flying all over the ice.And he has no interest in blocking a point shot.

    Russell can do his job.The Chicago D would have at least know there were opposition forwards on the ice.

    True but Nurse wasn’t physical as well.

    I think that it was coaching as the Oilers we’re getting penalized for everything.

    The only way to change the calls is be a contender. Hopefully.

  127. Bag of Pucks says:

    vangolf:
    Bag of Pucks,

    It is clear why munny decided not to converse with you. You end with a false equivalency that is precisely the point and (intentionally?) offensive. Tells me there is not fertile ground for discussion, so I’ll join munny.

    A false equivalency, like athletes locking arms being described as ‘conformity mob politics?’

  128. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: Think Greiss and those in his “snack bracket” will be looking for a few years.

    I’d be just fine with going with Aaron Dell for one year – cheap and a good bet.

    Spend the money (if there is any to spend) elsewhere.

    Aaron Dell isn’t very good

  129. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: Nurse’s boxcars and SportLogiq say that you need to get a new set of eyes, or eyeglasses.

    The stats to me tell us Nurse in the end gets the job done.

    The eye tells me he is a very inefficient player.

    What he has in amazing physical tools he lacks in skill. Or whatever it is.

    If he is paid correctly he’s a rare player.

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think Dell is better than his numbers over the past two seasons playing on a terrible Shark team.

    The Oilers have a goalie locked in at $4.5M that has proven capable of playing a solid 40 games, probably 50.

    Paying assets and/or material money for risks such as Holtby, Murray, etc. doesn’t ring true to me.

  131. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I think Dell is better than his numbers over the past two seasons playing on a terrible Shark team.

    The Oilers have a goalie locked in at $4.5M that has proven capable of playing a solid 40 games, probably 50.

    Paying assets and/or material money for risks such as Holtby, Murray, etc. doesn’t ring true to me.

    Agreed. He isn’t going to cost much, will be better than Smith and could end up being a solid contributor over a couple of contracts.

  132. Victoria Oil says:

    jp: Definitely depends on the acquisition. A lot of the actual UFAs are pretty old so 2 years is likely (Khudobin, Greiss).

    Great to hear Konovalov is starting out hot, if he can get back to where he was in his draft (.930) then yeah, very definitely a good candidate for 1B in 2021 or 22.

    My enthusiasm for Konovalov is tempered by the fact that .930 save percentages are fairly common in the KHL and the average is around .920. Konovalov was below average last year, above average the previous year and about average for the last two years overall. What he does have going for him is the fact that he is still one of the youngest keepers in the KHL.

  133. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar: I am a fan of Caleb Jones and think that, after this coming season, he will essentially prove to be a “must-protect” and have all but solidified himself as a future 2nd pairing d-man.

    He has already shown to be able to fill in for Klef and play very well 5 on 5.

    With that said, filling if for a few week stretch and performing well (while the other top 4 pairing is relied on more) is not the same as playing 25 minutes night after night like Klefbom does.

    Even if Jones could replicate Klef’s performance on the ice in isolation – proving to be able to do that in heavy minutes, night after night after night is different.

    I do think that Jones will prove to be 2RD ready through this season but can’t say that there wouldn’t be much of a drop-off from the 25 min/game guy.

    I agree

    BUT

    Teams that are able to make positive hockey trades are more often than not able to identify early who is who.

    The Oilers wait until emerging players fail and get nothing for them etc etc

    Jones is 23. They either know him or don’t. He is what he is for the most part.

    And my point ‘saying as things are’ means Klef has missed significant games yearly and has not been strong defensively. Same for Larsson.

    Is it a big drop off given the Swedes are who they are and players like Jones will grow with opportunity?

    I often say sticking the course with ‘vets’ that aren’t actually getting it done, what matters most, is a plan to not grow as a team.

    Sure there will be mistakes but the vets are consistently making them.

    I say go for established young players that can grow and see the same level of fails but with long term upside and cap savings .

    That is how the glory team did it, let good players grow together as a group.

  134. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I think Dell is better than his numbers over the past two seasons playing on a terrible Shark team.

    The Oilers have a goalie locked in at $4.5M that has proven capable of playing a solid 40 games, probably 50.

    Paying assets and/or material money for risks such as Holtby, Murray, etc. doesn’t ring true to me.

    I agree fully on the last part. There’s no need to pay big money for those guys. But there are other options available between the Holtby/Murry and Dell’s price points.

    I’m not at all sure about Dell myself. Would you really feel comfortable penciling him in for 30-40GP? I would not.

    He has a career .908 SV%.

    Last 3 years .904 SV%

    Last 2 years .899 SV% (52nd of 56 goalies with 40+ games; Mike Smith was 48th of 56)

    Last year .907 (35th of 57 with 20+ games)

    The numbers are so damn bad.

    Maybe it’s because he’s on a bad team. Or you know, maybe having bad goaltenders is the reason the team is bad.

    (last 2 seasons the Sharks have the worst 5v5 SV% in the league and were 47.6GF%. They were also 52.4SF%, 52.5xGF%, 52.1SCF%, 52.5HDCF%)

    I think I’d rather bring Smith back.

  135. Scungilli Slushy says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Jaxon,

    I know JP has some interesting data suggesting forwards chosen in the same cohort as first round goaltenders tend to impact their team in *about the same time period.

    But considering the depth of this draft class, I’d wager a forward is more likely to step in and contribute more quickly than Askarov.

    Curious why you would choose the goaltender over a possible impact forward if both were available at 14?I’m interested in your thought process, not just for today’s teem but going forward.

    Few teams are always in the mix without the most important position on the team playing at a consistent top level.

    The question is whether he’s that good or not. If he is it’s worth the risk as he’ll be on the team soon. And a major contributor.

    As the best players do.

    Which is also why you should always trade up in the first two rounds not down. If possible.

    Like what if you found interest in LA trading with their first and a strong goalie/3C for Klef JP and our first?

    Are we better or worse? Long term.

  136. OriginalPouzar says:

    I 100% disagree with the premise that we know what Jones is at 23 and there isn’t much more room to grow.

    He’s improved year after year since he was drafted and throughout this past season there was substantial development. He just turned 23 and will be 23 and the end of next season. He’s played 60 NHL games.

  137. OriginalPouzar says:

    jp: I agree fully on the last part. There’s no need to pay big money for those guys. But there are other options available between the Holtby/Murry and Dell’s price points.

    I’m not at all sure about Dell myself. Would you really feel comfortable penciling him in for 30-40GP? I would not.

    He has a career .908 SV%.

    Last 3 years .904 SV%

    Last 2 years .899 SV% (52nd of 56 goalies with 40+ games; Mike Smith was 48th of 56)

    Last year .907 (35th of 57 with 20+ games)

    The numbers are so damn bad.

    Maybe it’s because he’s on a bad team. Or you know, maybe having bad goaltenders is the reason the team is bad.

    (last 2 seasons the Sharks have the worst 5v5 SV% in the league and were 47.6GF%. They were also 52.4SF%, 52.5xGF%, 52.1SCF%, 52.5HDCF%)

    I think I’d rather bring Smith back.

    Rather bring Smith back? Whoa…

    Smith was worse on a better team this past season and likely to be even worse next season.

    As I said, I think Dell is better than his numbers the last two years -the previous two years he was much better when the team in front of him was better.

    Yes, for the likely price tag, I’d be OK pencilling him for 30 games behind Mikko.

  138. Solly says:

    No to OEL. Like many have said before me, Holland gave us hope by somehow getting rid of Lucic’s contract (which is still the best thing he’s done in his short tenure here)…

    So why would we go chase another whale contract in OEL? Annnnd give up material players to acquire him? No doubt he’s a top pairing D still, but that contract takes him out of contention for us and we have lots of LHD capable of NHL ice-time. Internally on the left-side will more than suffice this year. OEL is the definition of insanity for the Oilers…and OEL doesn’t have the impact this team needs to take the next step.

    If Holland’s focus is to make the D better (I don’t think it is) then we should be going after Parayko. Some have mentioned a trade makes sense in St. Louis to get Puetrangelo signed. Some on here have suggested trades for OEL…why not just switch out OEL for Parayko in those trades? Like this:

    Klefbom/Larsson + Benson + JP for Parayko and Bozak.
    (4.2 + 0.5 + ??? for 5.5 + 5 = St. Louis sheds about $5 mil to sign their captain, get a top pairing D-man back, and take 2 risks on cheap potential)

    I don’t like giving up on Benson already, but both teams have to win something out of the trade. This seems like fair value, even if you swap Benson out for some of our other “moveable” players, there might be something there… The money savings was the key factor for slotting Benson in but I’m not sure he has enough value to get St. Louis to consider this.

    Not sure who initially had the idea to trade for Parayko + Bozak but I believe that is the route to pursue if the Oilers are aiming to upgrade the back-end. The above trade fills out the top 4 D and we get that 3C who wins draws and scores every once in a while. Yes 5 mil is too much for Bozy, but his contract is only 2 more years and St. Louis needs to get rid of his contract.

    I don’t think we need to look at D this off-season unless the trade is too good to say no…like… a trade we can’t even fathom because of the perpetual fleecing over the years has blinded us from winning a trade.

    I also think Haas will be given the 3C role unless we find a UFA for close to league minimum. Haas was signed for 3C/4C role so he will get that look this year.

    Go get a goalie!!! A good one while there’s legit options available this year. Lots of them. If the Lehner rumors are true (5mil x 5) out of Vegas, getting a starting goalie off the UFA market for cheap is a very high possibility this year. How often does that happen?

    With the limited cap space this year…an elite goalie for cheap(er) and a trade for a top-6 winger is the step this team needs to take. Other shortcomings can be addresses during the season/trade deadline/etc. We need to start making trades when it’s ideal for us and desperation for the other guys. And this off-season reeks of desperation…

  139. pts2pndr says:

    jp: Sure, but so was Colten Teubert’s.

    No Colton Teubert’s skating was identified early as a deficiency. Both Samorukov and Broberg are above average to elite skaters.

  140. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I 100% disagree with the premise that we know what Jones is at 23 and there isn’t much more room to grow.

    He’s improved year after year since he was drafted and throughout this past season there was substantial development.He just turned 23 and will be 23 and the end of next season.He’s played 60 NHL games.

    I feel comfortable to project Jones as a top four NHL D, I would agree that we don’t have enough games played to determine what his top end is. Time will tell which is why I think moving either of Klefbom or Nurse this year is premature.

  141. jp says:

    pts2pndr: No Colton Teubert’s skating was identified early as a deficiency.Both Samorukov and Broberg are above average to elite skaters.

    You said “tool kit”, not skating. Though I’ll agree Teubert was probably a poor example.

    My point was that the tool kit doesn’t always translate (Teubert did have enough of one to be drafted 13th btw).

    If you’re talking skating then I think Jones has a clear advantage over Samorukov from what I’ve read.

  142. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: Rather bring Smith back?Whoa…

    Smith was worse on a better team this past season and likely to be even worse next season.

    As I said, I think Dell is better than his numbers the last two years -the previous two years he was much better when the team in front of him was better.

    Yes, for the likely price tag, I’d be OK pencilling him for 30 games behind Mikko.

    Dell had the advantage in SV% last year .907 to .902.

    In 18-19 Dell was .886 vs Smith .898. (Dell was the worst of 60 goalies >20 games in 18-19)

    As I posted above, over 2 years Dell had a worse SV% than Smith.

    In terms of his numbers being due to his team… that team had strongly positive underlying numbers over the last 2 seasons. Yet they got outscored and had the worst SV% in the league.

    Is that the goalie suffering because of the team? Or the team suffering because of the goalie? I’m guessing it’s the latter but I could be wrong. Definitely not comfortable bringing in one of the potential culprits and expecting him to play 30-40 average games.

    And Smith. He’s old and likely to decline, agreed. The Oilers also outscored their opponents 116-106 when he was in net, despite the .902 SV%. I give some (but not full) credit for that. And his SV% was actually better than Dell’s if you look over 2 years.

    Personally, I hope Holland does what he can to bring a goalie better than both Smith and Dell.

    $2M-$3M should buy a far better better bet than Smith/Dell this offseason, IMO.

  143. pts2pndr says:

    jp: You said “tool kit”, not skating. Though I’ll agree Teubert was probably a poor example.

    My point was that the tool kit doesn’t always translate (Teubert did have enough of one to be drafted 13th btw).

    If you’re talking skating then I think Jones has a clear advantage over Samorukov from what I’ve read.

    I see their skating as a strength for both players. Samorukov is two years younger and his defence and shot are equal or superior to Jones. He lacks the experience however he plays a far greater physical game and not fun to play against. Jones will have a good career but I believe that Samorukov has the higher ceiling.

  144. jp says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Twenty-two minute video released today by the Oilers where Tony Brar interviews Tyler Wright one on one about the draft. I’ll post a loose transcription for those who don’t want to watch it all or can’t.

    Thanks a lot for that. Took me about half the time to read as it would have to watch. Glad I did and now we can quote it too!

    Nary a mention of statistics or math, but some interesting stuff about the core of the team and the philosophy of what they’re building. Sounds like Wright is pretty tight with Holland as well.

  145. jp says:

    pts2pndr: I see their skating as a strength for both players. Samorukov is two years younger and his defence and shot are equal or superior to Jones. He lacks the experience however he plays a far greater physical game and not fun to play against. Jones will have a good career but I believe that Samorukov has the higher ceiling.

    I don’t really know about Samorukov’s skating. I’d be very surprised if it was equal to Jones’. I could be wrong though, and for sure Samorukov has other things going for him.

    In any case, I’m not trying to say Samorukov can’t/won’t make it. He’s just got a long climb ahead of him to get there. And Jones has already made most of the climb.

    If Samorukov eventually passes Jones that would be great. I don’t think the odds are strong, but it would be really cool.

  146. Genjutsu says:

    Bag of Pucks: A false equivalency, like athletes locking arms being described as ‘conformity mob politics?’

    Wanting to end systemic racism isn’t political. It’s basic human decency.

    There are some very intelligent people here and else where that seem to want make other believe it’s all just politics.

    At least we’re talking about it, instead of just pretending doesn’t exist and everything is alright.

  147. Indy says:

    Joe Strummer, man. Thanks LT.

  148. OriginalPouzar says:

    pts2pndr: I see their skating as a strength for both players. Samorukov is two years younger and his defence and shot are equal or superior to Jones. He lacks the experience however he plays a far greater physical game and not fun to play against. Jones will have a good career but I believe that Samorukov has the higher ceiling.

    Oh, there is no doubt that Samorukov has the higher ceiling – in my opinion, he has the higher ceiling than Bouchard or Broberg due to his skill-set – he is plus in all the required skills.

    Of course, the chances of him developing all of those tools and translating them to the NHL level are slim and he’s unlikely to hit that ceiling but I think its there. In any event, he is a tantalizing prospect to me that could bottom out as a tweener and could top out as a top pairing guy and likely finishes somewhere in the 3-5 spot.

  149. Munny says:

    Bag of Pucks: You too! Be the change you want to see in this world.

    You clearly have no idea what that phrase means since it was not applicable to my discussion except indirectly. However it does follows the incendiary line of thinking you were putting forward.

    It is also a horrible misquote. If you are going to attempt to quote Gandhi, at least do him the justice of using his actual words and context.

  150. pts2pndr says:

    jp: You said “tool kit”, not skating. Though I’ll agree Teubert was probably a poor example.

    My point was that the tool kit doesn’t always translate (Teubert did have enough of one to be drafted 13th btw).

    If you’re talking skating then I think Jones has a clear advantage over Samorukov from what I’ve read.

    For me toolkit includes hockey IQ, skating, shot, passing and competitive nature. The later for defensmen shows as hard to play against which includes truculence.

  151. Bag of Pucks says:

    Munny: You clearly have no idea what that phrase means since it was not applicable to my discussion except indirectly.However it does follows the incendiary line of thinking you were putting forward.

    It is also a horrible misquote.If you are going to attempt to quote Gandhi, at least do him the justice of using his actual words and context.

    Seems like you weren’t leaving the conversation as much waiting for an opportunity to have the last word?

  152. Bag of Pucks says:

    Genjutsu: Wanting to end systemic racism isn’t political. It’s basic human decency.

    There are some very intelligent people here and else where that seem to want make other believe it’s all just politics.

    At least we’re talking about it, instead of just pretending doesn’t exist and everything is alright.

    Agreed. That’s what so many don’t seem to understand. Many whites feel demonized by these demonstrations, but systemic racism isn’t just overt expressions such as police brutality. It also includes more passive and seemingly benign expressions such as “shut up and play, stay in your lane, etc”

    One of the great challenges in changing this is in recognizing that white privilege is a blindspot for many of us.

    Everyone just wants to live and enjoy their lives and be safe and healthy. But blacks face far greater chalkenges in doing so. Empathy. It’s a thing.

  153. DieHard says:

    Bag of Pucks: Agreed. That’s what so many don’t seem to understand. Many whites feel demonized by these demonstrations, but systemic racism isn’t just overt expressions such as police brutality. It also includes more passive and seemingly benign expressions such as “shut up and play, stay in your lane, etc”

    One of the great challenges in changing this is in recognizing that white privilege is a blindspot for many of us.

    Everyone just wants to live and enjoy their lives and be safe and healthy. But blacks face far greater chalkenges in doing so. Empathy. It’s a thing.

    Have another drink of koolaid

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