Blue Days

Defensemen are tougher to figure out than forwards, in my opinion. There’s more ‘saw him good’ when evaluating blue, and that can mean wildly varying opinions. For instance, many fans believe Evan Bouchard is a struggling defender. If that were true, that he is not a good defender, that probably holds all the way back to junior right? So, what if the numbers from junior hockey tell us something else about Bouchard? What then?

THE ATHLETIC!

Great perspective from a ridiculous group of writers and analysts. I am proud to be part of The Athletic. Here are the most recent Oilers stories.

DEFENSEMEN EVEN STRENGTH GOAL DIFFERENTIAL

This is everyone’s draft year except Broberg who is draft +1 because I couldn’t find his numbers. Nurse played against the other team’s best (Kyle Dubas tracked it) and came out better than his team by about three percentage points. That’s a good season, but does it indicate future success? Look at Reinhart down at the bottom? A guy like Bear looks good, Broberg too, but Samorukov and Niemelainen could not rise above.

Bouchard? He was demonstrably better than his team based on these numbers from Pick 224. So, is Bouchard poor defensively, or does he look lethargic when retrieving pucks? I’m not sure of the answer but these numbers suggest he was better than his teammates in his draft year in outscoring. What about Bouchard in the AHL, 2019-20?

  • Bouchard 2019-20 Bakersfield on-ice even strength: 41-51 44.57 percent
  • Condors 2019-20 with Bouchard off-ice EV strength: 71-89 44.38 percent

Bouchard performed at about level overall but did improve markedly in the second half of the year. I think he’s better defensively than he’s being given credit for, maybe because he looks lethargic in retreat for the puck.

2020 DEFENSEMEN

I was hoping for more revealing numbers here but Drysdale’s on-off numbers are impressive. He’s regarded as a strong puck mover and smart defender but lacks size. They all look good and their teams do too, save Poirier. He and his team were under water.

OEL

Some rumblings online about OEL coming in a trade, I have many thoughts. First, the cap hit is enormous ($8.2 million) and goes through summer 2027. This fella is 29 now. His contract is longer than 97’s and 29’s.

His PuckIQ page shows strong work against elites for ages, then a dip in performance this past campaign. Over at NST his power-play goals per 60 were above 1.00 for some time but dipped last year. At even strength, his scoring totals were up but mostly second assists. His possession numbers were uneasy and his rel number a little below par. Here are his five on five numbers with his two main partners:

  • OEL-Jason Demers: 679 minutes, 46.80 shot differential, 18-24 goal differential.
  • OEL-Ilya Lyubushkin: 173 minutes, 50.25 shot differential, 12-6 goal differential.

OEL with Adam Larsson would be a strong pairing, you could run Nurse-Bear or Klefbom-Bear on the second pair and have a nice set. Trading Klefbom and Russell gets you there in terms of cap, but this is not a trade that represents a clear win. I don’t think this trade is wise.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A fun morning on TSN1260, we get started at 10. Frank Seravalli from TSN pops in with trade rumours and we’ll chat about last night’s heartbreaker for the Islanders. At 11, Sean Woodley from Locked on Raptors will talk to us about a brilliant win for the Raptors last night and a massive Game 7 Friday night. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter.

We’ll also have the $20,000 Mystery Moment at 10:15, your chance to win cash with that gigantic sports brain of yours. We’re at $600! THAT’S REAL WALKING AROUND MONEY! Text in at 10-1260 with the secret word, then we’ll call you, play a clip from a famous sports moment and ask you for a detailed answer.

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128 Responses to "Blue Days"

  1. dustrock says:

    I guess if some of the successful guys like Bear had more or less even numbers on/off in junior and Bouchard had superior numbers in junior, and then in first year of AHL had even on/off, that’s probably a good look.

    Would be interesting to see some of the top d-men who spent time in the AHL and what their numbers were like.

    I didn’t watch much, but by reports Bakersfield seemed more chaotic the entire year and Bouchard’s 2nd half looks even better in that respect.

  2. slopitch says:

    Has anyone heard of any college or junior signings by the org? Would be nice to see a Drake Caggula, or a college goalie added to the system.

  3. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Kind of silly thought, but what the hell…

    Anyone notice how both Bouch and Ebs (among millions of other humans) have kind of a sleepy look to them? Kind of half-lidded?? This isn’t a slight against this look or anything….but any chance PART of our perception on “lazy player” may arise from the look of their face?? Of course there is also skating and perceived effort on ice as well….

    I think Bouch and Ebs and others are just kind of naturally “calm looking” (contrast with Kass whose natural look is “First I’m going to start with your fingers, then…”).

    Anyway just a silly thought…

    I think Bouch is going to be a significant contributor to the Oilers for several years. A bit of calm demeanor (“poise” as per SP) would have been very beneficial to the Oil blue during the play-in…

  4. Darth Tu says:

    Poirier’s draft ranking is all over the place – verbal is he’s not great at the old backwards skating and can often lack hustle when defending. Supposedly close to elite in the offensive zone though.

    I’m still sure someone will take a flier on him, but I can see him falling into or further down the list in the second round. If we had multiple second round picks (ha) I would say maybe take a chance on him if he drops far enough, but no way he falls to the third round – I’m guessing we use our third round pick this year.

    Is there a reason he’s not been tried as a winger? Or has that happened? He seems to have all the offensive instincts.

  5. who says:

    I’m trying to picture what an OEL trade would look like. And why the Oilers would even consider it?
    Maybe something like Klefbom, JP and Neal for OEL and Ranta. Saves Arizona some money this year and more money after they buy out Neal next year.
    I guess it makes Edmonton a better team this year but I still don’t think I’d do it. That OEL contract is borderline toxic.

  6. GordieHoweHatTrick says:

    Oh, and…Hard NO THANK YOU on a possible OEL acquisition. That would be PC level blunder at this point…

  7. leadfarmer says:

    I can’t imagine an OEL trade
    Coyotes are trying to shed salary and we don’t have cap
    He would be an upgrade despite having a tough season but the leftorium is not the place I would spend assets upgrading

  8. godot10 says:

    I am suggesting this as a possibility for a trade structure, not as an endorsement.

    Klefbom, Puljujarvi, and Koskinen for Ekman-Larsson and Kuemper

  9. Elgin R says:

    Hard no on ANY trade for OEL. Look at how most defencemen age in the new-faster NHL. Case in point: Eric Karlsson, Drew Doughty and Brent Seabrook. Big money contracts on declining assets is bad management.

    OEL took the guaranteed money and term over a chance to play for a winning team. Nothing wrong with that – but now he has to live with that or retire from the NHL and play in the SHL if he wants to win. Without 50% retained, I do not see another NHL team taking on this player’s contract.

  10. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Betting against Drysdale because of size bias is going to bite a handful of teams in the ass, and I reckon sooner than later.

  11. Jiminey says:

    ” I think he’s better defensively than he’s being given credit for, maybe because he looks lethargic in retreat for the puck.”

    When I think of a player and looking “Lethargic” the first one that comes to mind is Mats Sundin. I think anyone that saw him play would agree that he did not “appear” to have any hustle in his game. Check out these links of him on a break away…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VdzyUFoQOM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH6_zxJ2mI8

    He looks just so ho-hum. Looks can very much be deceiving and Mats’ Hall of Fame career proves that!

  12. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    GordieHoweHatTrick,

    I see some of what you’re saying. I think a lot of it has to do with a perceived “lack of urgency” especially while skating. Thing is, Bouchard isn’t a poor skater. His stride is long and strong, which because he’s so tall looks slow. Same complaints dogged Leon his first couple seasons. Compare that with the likes of Drake Caggiula, who looked like a tazmanian devil on the ice yet got nothing accomplished (aside from goals going the wrong way).

    Bouchard will be a stud on our back end for a decade plus.

  13. Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR says:

    I’m ok with them going big game hunting for a defenceman stud, but OEL is not that guy at that price. But this offseason will be nuts, and there’s no telling who might shake loose from other teams. It’s gonna be similar to the offseason after the lockout in 06. If anyone remembers, Edmonton did quite well that summer in trade. It might be time to try for a home run.

  14. pts2pndr says:

    godot10:
    I am suggesting this as a possibility for a trade structure, not as an endorsement.

    Klefbom, Puljujarvi, and Koskinen for Ekman-Larsson and Kuemper

    The bottom line as I see it is under no circumstances should a team take on a very large long term cap hit for a player that is about to reach the start of performance decline. The last three years of this contact would be impossible to unload. The Oilers need to fill a couple of holes with any cap they can squeeze out not make marginal improvements in other areas. The priority has to be a third line centre and a scoring winger. There is also the matter of increases for Bear, Yamamoto and Nuge. We are still paying dearly for our mistakes re Lucic and Russel contracts. Cap management is crucial in building a winner!

  15. Jordan says:

    godot10,

    I do not think that kind of trade would benefit the Oilers in any way.

    The only way there’s value for the Oilers to take OEL is if they are getting cap relief.

    The only way there’s value for the Yotes is if they are getting cash relief.

    Russell has to be involved for there to be value for both team.

    If this trade is going to happen, this looks much more likely.

    Klefhom and Russell for OEL, with a + on either side, depending on who negotiates better.

    Considering this trade saves Phoenix almost 3 M in real dollars next season and gives them 4 M cap space after that when Russell’s contract expires, I’d be pushing hard for a sweetener for the Oilers to do this deal. If you think OEL is the best player in the deal, he’s not 4M better than Klefbom, and that contact is better than full value for 4M this coming season.

    Arizona doesn’t own a pick before the 4th round this year, so I’d be pushing for a 2021 2nd or a prospect too. Soderstrom is a R-shot D who I’d have time for.

    If you were going to target a prospect from Ari on a trade like this, who would you want?

  16. who says:

    godot10:
    I am suggesting this as a possibility for a trade structure, not as an endorsement.

    Klefbom, Puljujarvi, and Koskinen for Ekman-Larsson and Kuemper

    I don’t see any OEL acquisition coming without Neals contract going the other way.

  17. who says:

    Jordan:
    godot10,

    I do not think that kind of trade would benefit the Oilers in any way.

    The only way there’s value for the Oilers to take OEL is if they are getting cap relief.

    The only way there’s value for the Yotes is if they are getting cash relief.

    Russell has to be involved for there to be value for both team.

    If this trade is going to happen, this looks much more likely.

    Klefhom and Russell for OEL, with a + on either side, depending on who negotiates better.

    Considering this trade saves Phoenix almost 3 M in real dollars next season and gives them 4 M cap space after that when Russell’s contract expires, I’d be pushing hard for a sweetener for the Oilers to do this deal.If you think OEL is the best player in the deal, he’s not 4M better than Klefbom, and that contact is better than full value for 4M this coming season.

    Arizona doesn’t own a pick before the 4th round this year, so I’d be pushing for a 2021 2nd or a prospect too.Soderstrom is a R-shot D who I’d have time for.

    If you were going to target a prospect from Ari on a trade like this, who would you want?

    Disposing of the Russell contract in this trade is not near enough.
    It’s only 1 more year and we have OELs contract for 7. The Russell contract is not near as big a problem as most people make it out to be.

  18. RonnieB says:

    LT
    O’Rourke’s on-off stats look nearly identical to Drysdale’s yet I haven’t seen any commentary about him. Where do you have him in your draft list and could you fill in the blanks on him? Thanks.

  19. dustrock says:

    BornInAGretzkyJersey:
    Betting against Drysdale because of size bias is going to bite a handful of teams in the ass, and I reckon sooner than later.

    Absolutely. Look at how many short d-men are killing it in the playoffs.

  20. Harpers Hair says:

    Adam Cracknell signs a two way contract with the Oilers.

  21. dustrock says:

    I agree that not only is Klefbom’s contract far superior, I’m not convinced OEL is a superior player at this point.

    If it was 3 years ago I would have been all over OEL.

  22. OriginalPouzar says:

    Do many fans believe that Bouchard is a struggling AHL defender or is that just one person, in this community, that stretches to formulate anti-Oilers “opinions” to propagate a narrative?

  23. Darth Tu says:

    dustrock:
    I agree that not only is Klefbom’s contract far superior, I’m not convinced OEL is a superior player at this point.

    If it was 3 years ago I would have been all over OEL.

    Agreed.

    Out of our top 4 D the only one I would be in favour of trading is Larsson – even then it’s with reservations as he is the only shutdown right hander we have. Bear, again due to handedness, I wouldn’t move. Nurse I’d rather keep, but would entertain offers – but would only let him go for a clear trade win. Klefbom I move under no circumstances at least for the next few years. I think post Seattle expansion he’ll be outperforming OEL.

    This not the year for the big shakeup on D (unless it’s Larsson out for something useful). As Dustrock pointed out above, even the Russell contract isn’t that bad. Sure it impacts cap for us this year, but it’s gone next summer. At that point we’ll know a lot more about Bouchard and Broberg is one year closer to making the NHL. Plus, maybe Lagesson has already taken Russell’s job and Jones is ready for top 4 work (at that time you think about moving one of Jones or Nurse).

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    OEL is much better than his recent numbers suggest and is, without a doubt, a legit top pairing d-man in the NHL. He is among the elite in my opinion and, a year or two ago, I would suggest would be considered among the elite almost universally.

    If the Oilers acquired him, he’d be the best d-man on the team since Pronger and would slot Nurse or Klef in a spot where they could/would blow the doors off. The other would have to be moved I would think.

    With that said, its not just about the player in the here and now, its about contract and the player during the term of the contract and, while I believe OEL has some high end years left, that contract is big and long and I simply don’t think that acquiring the player and that contract is what the Oilers need to contend for term.

  25. leadfarmer says:

    Bouchard was -10 for the year in AHL the same as Benson and a little better than Malone. So how bad is he defensibly?
    He is our best passer since the short Ryan Whitney experience

  26. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Do many fans believe that Bouchard is a struggling AHL defender or is that just one person, in this community, that stretches to formulate anti-Oilers “opinions” to propagate a narrative?

    You might want to check out LTs post at the Athletic this morning…particularly the section on prospects whose stock is falling.

  27. London Jon says:

    Harpers Hair: You might want to check out LTs post at the Athletic this morning…particularly the section on prospects whose stock is falling.

    Here we go again

  28. Elgin R says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Do many fans believe that Bouchard is a struggling AHL defender or is that just one person, in this community, that stretches to formulate anti-Oilers “opinions” to propagate a narrative?

    I you watched any Condors games this year, they told the story (the feed sucked but at least the subscription was cheap!). Bouchard was the best Condor player when he was on the ice and most times the best defenceman on either team. He is calm and efficient, while also be a good passer with high hockey IQ and improved defensively during the year. Anyone discounting Bouchard is not watching the games or giving credit where due. This kid is a NHL-ready RD with 2-years left on his ELC – what’s not to like.

  29. pts2pndr says:

    dustrock: Absolutely.Look at how many short d-men are killing it in the playoffs.

    I think if you look at the remaking four teams this is not the case. Teams with super skilled small D are like the Oilers on the golf course.

  30. Elgin R says:

    Harpers Hair: You might want to check out LTs post at the Athletic this morning…particularly the section on prospects whose stock is falling.

    Why do people (LT etc) compare Bouchard to Broberg? They do not play the same position. I know that a very small percentage of D play their off sides, but the analysis shows that most, if not all, are better on their designated side. Anyways, fast skaters always look good in camp and preseason but most disappear once real hockey starts. Bouchard is the Oilers best RD prospect and is NHL ready. Full stop.

  31. nathen99 says:

    Klefbom is perhaps best value contract in the nhl. FYI cap is flat 4 mill for 22 plus can’t possibly win Any trade klefbom stays period

  32. OriginalPouzar says:

    slopitch:
    Has anyone heard of any college or junior signings by the org? Would be nice to see a Drake Caggula, or a college goalie added to the system.

    Well, the Ivy League has been cancelled for this year so, depending on what Kemp wants to do (maybe he wants to graduate, however, even though his family is wealthy, the Ivy League hockey scholarships aren’t full), he may sign with the Oilers or Condors.

    As far as college free agents, I have no idea.

    On that note, the Hockey Commissioners Association has officially delayed the start of all all conferences for mens and women’s hockey play

    The individual conferences will work on RTP schedules and the National Collegiate Hockey Conference is hoping for around November 20 to start.

    https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29853181/start-ncaa-mens-women-hockey-seasons-delayed?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

  33. pts2pndr says:

    Elgin R: I you watched any Condors games this year, they told the story (the feed sucked but at least the subscription was cheap!).Bouchard was the best Condor player when he was on the ice and most times the best defenceman on either team.He is calm and efficient, while also be a good passer with high hockey IQ and improved defensively during the year.Anyone discounting Bouchard is not watching the games or giving credit where due.This kid is a NHL-ready RD with 2-years left on his ELC – what’s not to like.

    Bouchard has slowed the pro game down In the AHL just as he was able to do in junior. He does things so well and thinks the game at a very high level and therefore makes things look effortless. Like many great athletes covering all sports the truly gifted make things look easy. It may take him a year in the NHL to do the same thing he has done to this point in his career but I believe we have a very special player in Bouchard.

  34. barry.moore23 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I’d guess you haven’t watched OEL play lately. 3 years ago yes. There was one play last year that sums it up I can’t remember if it was here or in Edmonton . Riley Sheahan faked once and absolutely blew by him to go in alone on goal. I watch lots of Coyotes games. now that i think about it I should shut up and check Puck IQ. 🙂

  35. flyfish1168 says:

    godot10:
    I am suggesting this as a possibility for a trade structure, not as an endorsement.

    Klefbom, Puljujarvi, and Koskinen for Ekman-Larsson and Kuemper

    Only if the retain 3.2 million in salary

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    Elgin R: I you watched any Condors games this year, they told the story (the feed sucked but at least the subscription was cheap!).Bouchard was the best Condor player when he was on the ice and most times the best defenceman on either team.He is calm and efficient, while also be a good passer with high hockey IQ and improved defensively during the year.Anyone discounting Bouchard is not watching the games or giving credit where due.This kid is a NHL-ready RD with 2-years left on his ELC – what’s not to like.

    I watched about 75% of the Condors games.

    1) I agree with you on the player and his development over the year

    2) I don’t agree with Al that Bouchard’s “stock is dropping” due to his placement in the 2nd tier league in Sweden. I believe that was because the SHL wasn’t an option as they aren’t giving out “out contracts” to North Americans and its imperative that Bouch comes back for camp as he’s an NHL option.

    3) As a follow up to (2) above, we know that Al is very fond of Bouchard and the exceptional 2020 portion of the AHL season he had – real great development and huge arrows up

    4) I find the AHL TV stream fairly good – the camera views in some arenas are tough but the stream is good and Ryan Holt does a great job

    4) 3 years left on Bouch’s ELC – it slid again this year.

  37. OriginalPouzar says:

    NBA confirms it will not start before Christmas.

  38. dustrock says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    4) 3 years left on Bouch’s ELC – it slid again this year.

    And it must be said, this was a very large reason why he wasn’t in the Oilers’ playoff plans.

    There’s no way they were going to burn a year of his ELC on 10 playoff games.

  39. RonnieB says:

    OEL received a $4 million bonus for next season and is only owed $4 million in salary now. It’s difficult to imagine them finding a way to take back salary in a trade this year and benefit from it. The following 3 years have a $10.5 million cash outlay though, followed by 1 year at $8 and 2 years at $5.25.
    That contract structure doesn’t look so bad in the last few seasons if OP is right about his elite skill eroding slowly. It’s too bad the Oilers don’t have lots of Cap room and draft picks.

  40. Ryan says:

    dustrock: And it must be said, this was a very large reason why he wasn’t in the Oilers’ playoff plans.

    There’s no way they were going to burn a year of his ELC on 10 playoff games.

    In fairness, that potential problem basically solved itself when the Oilers were eliminated.

  41. jp says:

    LT: “Some rumblings online about OEL coming in a trade, I have many thoughts. First, the cap hit is enormous ($8.2 million) and goes through summer 2027. This fella is 29 now. His contract is longer than 97’s and 29’s.”

    He should be decent value for cap hit for the duration of Holland’s current deal though..

  42. YKOil says:

    Hard to imagine a workable OEL trade. Can imagine two scenarios

    Jones and one of Larsson/Russell in a package for OEL and (maybe) Raanta. Next foot to drop would be a trade of Klefbom for a forward. We replace Klefbom, get our top-two lines forward, and get our back-up stop-gap goalie.

    — too much salary work to make work imo and why would we give up the ‘good’ contract hammer? all the risk is on us (the Oilers) frankly and I hate those trades

    Nurse for OEL makes a bit of sense as the expectation for Nurse is $7 million plus and OEL provides certainty at least. Arizona gets some cap relief now.

    — sideways move at best and I think Nurse is worth more, maybe if there draft picks coming the Oilers way?

    Yeah… not a big fan of this

  43. MADOIL says:

    Random thoughts

    Following some of the comments, here is what I hope happens in the next 2 seasons.

    Oilers trade for Darcy Kuemper
    Oilers do not trade for Oliver Eckman / Matt Murray
    Oilers sign Granuland
    Hall signs for 1 year with Avalanche and then signs with Oilers in 2021
    PJ signs and plays for the Oil

  44. MADOIL says:

    Random thoughts -2

    Now that I have my Oil wish list here’s what I hope happens in Calgary

    Flames do not trade for Darcy Kuemper
    Flames trade for Matt Murray
    Flames trade Johnny Hockey but get fleeced on the deal 🙂

  45. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Random technical comment pertaining to the website and not the hockeying.

    Since the edit button / front page photos disappeared, I’ve noticed that the site perpetually loads after a page refresh or comment post.

    Not sure if that’s just me or others are also experiencing the same.

    MacOS and Firefox, everything up to date.

  46. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Hall is a great player but not what is needed unless he’s coming shockingly cheap.

    Back in the Taylor Tyler draft year many thought Tyler was the safer choice.

    My opinion was Hall was going to run into injury issues and Tyler would end up the better player, and oh yeah, right shot centre.

    Which is what has panned out. Taylor has played one full season several years ago.

    His next deal is a risky one. Also too old for a young team with elite players.

  47. MADOIL says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    Hall is a great player but not what is needed unless he’s coming shockingly cheap.

    Back in the Taylor Tyler draft year many thought Tyler was the safer choice.

    My opinion was Hall was going to run into injury issues and Tyler would end up the better player, and oh yeah, right shot centre.

    Which is what has panned out. Taylor has played one full season several years ago.

    His next deal is a risky one. Also too old for a young team with elite players.

    Agree that we should not sign him for long term. I would (if possible) get him to sign a 1-2 year deal. The lure for him is winning the cup with his friends (Mcd & Nuge) and Oil.

  48. maudite says:

    Those reinhart numbers are crazy story. What a team that was. I like this metric for defenseman it gives a very interesting puzzle piece more easily grasped light.

  49. OriginalPouzar says:

    dustrock: And it must be said, this was a very large reason why he wasn’t in the Oilers’ playoff plans.

    There’s no way they were going to burn a year of his ELC on 10 playoff games.

    I’m not sure I agree with this fully. Jones came in when Larsson went down but I would anticipate that, if Bear or Benning went down, Bouch would likely get the call. He very well could have played a few games – if he played well and the team was winning (and he was a part of it), they would need to make a decision as they approached 10 games played.

    Even if a leftie went down, I would think that Bouch may have been an option – Russell/Jones could have slid back to the left side. Coaches would have been deciding between Bouch and Lagesson at that point.

  50. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Man, 30 of 271 D with Brogod Rafferty’s statistical comparables have made the NHL in 30 years.

    https://twitter.com/ByronMBader/status/1304144474205872130?s=20

    What does DTF know that we don’t?!

  51. LadiesloveSmid says:

    DSF* I’m sure he is DTF. Where’s my edit button

  52. Lowetide says:

    RonnieB:
    LT
    O’Rourke’s on-off stats look nearly identical to Drysdale’s yet I haven’t seen any commentary about him. Where do you have him in your draft list and could you fill in the blanks on him? Thanks.

    I have him No. 57. Greak skater RLR has him top 20 and compare him to Provorov.

  53. Jordan says:

    Lowetide,

    So… I’m confused…

    If they Oilers are now interested in players who have good fundamentals, but are not great hockey players… isn’t that a step backwards in procurement for the team? That was their MO in the 2000s and they produced some good bottom 6 forwards, but nothing at the top of the roster. For a decade.

    The Oilers had a scouting team that was finding prospects that were becoming NHL players more consistently than at any time in the last 3 decades.

    But, we change the GM because he’s terrible, and the new GM changes the scouts and staff, and potentially the focus of those scouts and what they’re prioritizing in their prospects.

    If the Oilers are looking at Holloway and Guile with the first this year… I have serious doubts about the direction our scouts are going in.

    BTW – thanks for providing O’Rouke’s number. That’s elite. If he’s as good a skater as described, I’d be more interested in picking him at 14 than Holloway or Guile. But what do I know – I’m the guy who wanted to take Seguin over Hall, and Couture over Gagner. Of course, I also wanted Nischuskin over Nurse, so… I’m not pretending to be omnicient. 😉

  54. Lowetide says:

    Jordan:
    Lowetide,

    So… I’m confused…

    If they Oilers are now interested in players who have good fundamentals, but are not great hockey players… isn’t that a step backwards in procurement for the team?That was their MO in the 2000s and they produced some good bottom 6 forwards, but nothing at the top of the roster.For a decade.

    The Oilers had a scouting team that was finding prospects that were becoming NHL players more consistently than at any time in the last 3 decades.

    But, we change the GM because he’s terrible, and the new GM changes the scouts and staff, and potentially the focus of those scouts and what they’re prioritizing in their prospects.

    If the Oilers are looking at Holloway and Guile with the first this year… I have serious doubts about the direction our scouts are going in.

    BTW – thanks for providing O’Rouke’s number.That’s elite.If he’s as good a skater as described, I’d be more interested in picking him at 14 than Holloway or Guile.But what do I know – I’m the guy who wanted to take Seguin over Hall, and Couture over Gagner.Of course, I also wanted Nischuskin over Nurse, so… I’m not pretending to be omnicient. 😉

    Pronman mentioned Edmonton’s interest in Holloway and Kurt Leavins iirc had the Guhle info. Now, the Oilers might value someone more but if they take one or the other at that number, then yes I think we can say the scouting model used to identify Yamamoto has been altered. I don’t know how much of the staff has been changed out so can’t comment there.

  55. Ryan says:

    jp:
    LT: “Some rumblings online about OEL coming in a trade, I have many thoughts. First, the cap hit is enormous ($8.2 million) and goes through summer 2027. This fella is 29 now. His contract is longer than 97’s and 29’s.”

    He should be decent value for cap hit for the duration of Holland’s current deal though..

    I agree with others here that with the old *infallible eye test*, he certainly doesn’t look at all like he used to 3-4 years ago.

    Almost reminds me a bit of Doughty.

    Remember when Drew Doughty was still Drew Doughty?

    I’m not sure what Doughty is now, but he’s a vestige of his former self.

  56. maudite says:

    OEL could be our next lucic cap crip. All that glitters isn’t gold or paying for platinum for inevitabely potential degrading gold one or other i hope we dont take that contract.

  57. OriginalPouzar says:

    Adam Cracknell
    @A_Cracknell

    Very excited to be a part of the
    @EdmontonOilers
    organization once again. Does this mean I don’t get alumni emails anymore?

  58. maudite says:

    Id rather stretch nurse out for a bit lower cap hit than hope oel retains premium value over that time period. May be slight less value in first 2-3 years but would be easy bet its even or better by time it is done.

  59. Material Elvis says:

    nathen99:
    Klefbom is perhaps best value contract in the nhl. FYI cap is flat 4 mill for 22 plus can’t possibly win Any tradeklefbom stays period

    You mean even more valuable than MacKinnon, Pastrnak, Marchand, Scheifele, Barkov, Labanc, Arvidsson, etc?

  60. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10:
    I am suggesting this as a possibility for a trade structure, not as an endorsement.

    Klefbom, Puljujarvi, and Koskinen for Ekman-Larsson and Kuemper

    Take away cap hits (which you can’t when analyzing a trade but for the purposes of player value):

    OEL >>> Klef
    Kuemper >>> Koskinen
    JP = 2nd round pick plus C prospect value

  61. leadfarmer says:

    OriginalPouzar: Take away cap hits (which you can’t when analyzing a trade but for the purposes of player value):

    OEL >>> Klef
    Kuemper >>> Koskinen
    JP = 2nd round pick plus C prospect value

    If you can get Kuemper for anything reasonable you have to do it. His 759% quality start percentage is godlike

  62. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Take away cap hits (which you can’t when analyzing a trade but for the purposes of player value):

    OEL >>> Klef
    Kuemper >>> Koskinen
    JP = 2nd round pick plus C prospect value

    I said it was a trade structure…I probably should of added modulo stuff.

    The point was, if the Oilers purseue OEL, they should pursue Kuemper at the same time.

    Again, i am just suggesting a trade structure (modulo stuff) not recommending the transaction.

    Note: OEL’s performance this year was somewhat impacted by injury to an extent that may be impossible for a layman to determine.

  63. flea says:

    OEL would be a great get in my opinion.

    He’d be the best defence man on this team by a long shot.

    Nurse or Klef the other way, and maybe you could dump Russell too in another deal or alongside.

    I get the cap hit is massive and long term, but I bet he covers that contract for at least 5 years.

    After that, who cares! Likely by then the cap has rubber banded back to a high level and his contract is tolerable.

    The oilers can’t afford to wait or McDavid will be gonzo. The NHL won’t let him rot in a non playoff market. It’s bad for the players, bad for the whole leagues revenue.

  64. OriginalPouzar says:

    Listening to Seravelli from his spot on Lowetide this morning.

    I’m sure we’ve all seen the tweets that the Oilers are interested but not willing to pay the 1st round pick plus 2nd round pick asking price. My goodness, I sure hope they wouldn’t be willing to pay that price.

    As far as Murray being traded in general, Seravelli is saying part of the hold-up is the potential that he could get apx $6M on an arbitration award.

    My goodness.

    I’ve stated that I’m “buyer beware” on Murray as (1) he won’t be cheap to acquire (and that was before a 1st round pick is being speculated) and (2) he needs to be qualified just under $4M and I think he’s a risk at that amount coming off a poor year. $6M would be crazy – at least they could walk away from the award but then they paid the acquisition cost for nothing.

    With sooooooo many goalies out there (and now Reimer may be on the block and Ludquist might be bought out, etc.), I see no reason to pay big assets and then cap for a tender unless its one that is a locked in stud, not coming off a poor season and with a style that isn’t necessarily conducive to the lateral movement required (as per Woodley on that point).

    If they were going to pay material assets to trade for a goalie, I’m looking at Merzlikins/Korpisalo.

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    who: Disposing of the Russell contract in this trade is not near enough.
    It’s only 1 more year and we have OELs contract for 7. The Russell contract is not near as big a problem as most people make it out to be.

    Its definitely not a big problem except for this coming season.

    Of course the Neal contract is a bigger problem as its for three years but moving it isn’t feasible – moving Russell’s contract is feasible but for that NTC.

    I’m not talking about in the context of an OEL trade – you are right, divesting of the Russell contract doesn’t help the cap hit of the OEL contract but wanted to say that, in the very near term, the Russell contract is an issue – if it just disappeared, it would help the team as the on-ice product is replaced, with depth.

  66. OriginalPouzar says:

    dustrock:
    I agree that not only is Klefbom’s contract far superior, I’m not convinced OEL is a superior player at this point.

    If it was 3 years ago I would have been all over OEL.

    I’m a Klefbom fan but I think this is over-stated, no?

    Are you saying that, if OEL has 3 years left at $4.1M you wouldn’t trade Klef straight up for him?

    I don’t disagree that OEL’s stock has fallen a bit but its fallen from elite top 10 d-man in the world. He’s only 29 now and I anticipate getting out of the desert may help his game…..

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    Elgin R: Why do people (LT etc) compare Bouchard to Broberg?They do not play the same position.I know that a very small percentage of D play their off sides, but the analysis shows that most, if not all, are better on their designated side.Anyways, fast skaters always look good in camp and preseason but most disappear once real hockey starts.Bouchard is the Oilers best RD prospect and is NHL ready.Full stop.

    Broberg’s performance at Stage 3 camp was absolutely encouraging but you are absolutely correct – we were talking about performance in intra-squad scrimmages.

    We’ve seen high speed and skilled youngsters look good at camp, year after year, without being close to NHL ready – Ryan McLeod is an example – some though he should break camp with the Oilers this past season.

    Solid arrow for Broberg but he’s in the right place – getting top 4 minutes and PK time (with some PP2 time) in Skelefteea – a team in a league that is elite at developing d-man.

    Bouchard remains the top prospect – he just killed it in the AHL.

  68. pts2pndr says:

    RonnieB:
    OEL received a $4 million bonus for next season and is only owed $4 million in salary now. It’s difficult to imagine them finding a way to take back salary in a trade this year and benefit from it. The following 3 years have a $10.5 million cash outlay though, followed by 1 year at $8 and 2 years at $5.25.
    That contract structure doesn’t look so bad in the last few seasons if OP is right about his elite skill eroding slowly. It’s too bad the Oilers don’t have lots of Cap room and draft picks.

    The flat cap at 8.2 for the next seven years is very problematic!

  69. leadfarmer says:

    If OEL didn’t have a bad year and Arizona wasn’t broke then you would have no shot to get him
    Of course Arizona wants picks and little salary back

  70. OriginalPouzar says:

    nathen99:
    Klefbom is perhaps best value contract in the nhl. FYI cap is flat 4 mill for 22 plus can’t possibly win Any tradeklefbom stays period

    I love me some Klefbom and his contract is indeed a value contract but its not even close to one of the best in the NHL, even excluding ELCs – Shiefele, Huburdeau, Seth Jones, Marchand, Barkov, Couturier, Pionk, Theodore, Tuch.

    Shit, Caleb Jones may be a bigger value contract next season.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    MADOIL:
    Random thoughts -2

    Now that I have my Oil wish list here’s what I hope happens in Calgary

    Flames do not trade for Darcy Kuemper
    Flames trade for Matt Murray
    Flames trade Johnny Hockey but get fleeced on the deal

    Yup, Flames give up a first for Matt Murray and then give him $5M plus (or he gets an arb award even higher) – I’m all over it.

    With respect to your last past, and this one, I think you mixed it up, its the flames that should sign a 30-year old Hall for term and a big cap hit – anchor contract.

  72. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: I love me some Klefbom and his contract is indeed a value contract but its not even close to one of the best in the NHL, even excluding ELCs – Shiefele, Huburdeau, Seth Jones, Marchand, Barkov, Couturier, Pionk, Theodore, Tuch.

    Shit, Caleb Jones may be a bigger value contract next season.

    MacKinnon’s contract is the best contract in the league by far…and it isn’t even close.

  73. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar: Broberg’s performance at Stage 3 camp was absolutely encouraging but you are absolutely correct – we were talking about performance in intra-squad scrimmages.

    We’ve seen high speed and skilled youngsters look good at camp, year after year, without being close to NHL ready – Ryan McLeod is an example – some though he should break camp with the Oilers this past season.

    Solid arrow for Broberg but he’s in the right place – getting top 4 minutes and PK time (with some PP2 time) in Skelefteea – a team in a league that is elite at developing d-man.

    Bouchard remains the top prospect – he just killed it in the AHL.

    Corey Pronman disagrees with you.

    But what does a guy who gets paid to asses prospects for a living know?

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: I said it was a trade structure…I probably should of added modulo stuff.

    The point was, if the Oilers purseue OEL, they should pursue Kuemper at the same time.

    Again, i am just suggesting a trade structure (modulo stuff) not recommending the transaction.

    Note: OEL’s performance this year was somewhat impacted by injury to an extent that may be impossible for a layman to determine.

    I assume Modulo is a Yotes prospect playing in the SHL…….?

  75. who says:

    OriginalPouzar: Its definitely not a big problem except for this coming season.

    Of course the Neal contract is a bigger problem as its for three years but moving it isn’t feasible – moving Russell’s contract is feasible but for that NTC.

    I’m not talking about in the context of an OEL trade – you are right, divesting of the Russell contract doesn’t help the cap hit of the OEL contract but wanted to say that, in the very near term, the Russell contract is an issue – if it just disappeared, it would help the team as the on-ice product is replaced, with depth.

    My goodness.
    You sure can repeat what I said.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    flea:
    OEL would be a great get in my opinion.

    He’d be the best defence man on this team by a long shot.

    Nurse or Klef the other way, and maybe you could dump Russell too in another deal or alongside.

    I get the cap hit is massive and long term, but I bet he covers that contract for at least 5 years.

    After that, who cares! Likely by then the cap has rubber banded back to a high level and his contract is tolerable.

    The oilers can’t afford to wait or McDavid will be gonzo. The NHL won’t let him rot in a non playoff market. It’s bad for the players, bad for the whole leagues revenue.

    Gonzo? 6 more years of term on that contract.

    No, I don’t put any stock in to any theory that the league will somehow “force” a trade.

    Not making a very very risky acquisition that has the potential to crater the “consistent contender” plan is not akin to “waiting” too long, in my opinion.

  77. Harpers Hair says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Man, 30 of 271 D with Brogod Rafferty’s statistical comparables have made the NHL in 30 years.

    https://twitter.com/ByronMBader/status/1304144474205872130?s=20

    What does DTF know that we don’t?!

    I’m not alone.

    Pronman has Rafferty as the fifth best prospect in Vancouvers third overall young player pool.

    https://theathletic.com/2035883/2020/09/10/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-3-vancouver-canucks/?source=user_shared_article

  78. pts2pndr says:

    London Jon: Here we go again

    HH mantra I’m not happy until you’re not happy!💁

  79. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair: I’m not alone.

    Pronman has Rafferty as the fifth best prospect in Vancouvers third overall young player pool.

    https://theathletic.com/2035883/2020/09/10/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-3-vancouver-canucks/?source=user_shared_article

    So Vancouver’s pool of young stars is really not very good. It’s nice to see you have so many people that agree with you, normally you’re a majority of one!

  80. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Harpers Hair: I’m not alone.

    Pronman has Rafferty as the fifth best prospect in Vancouvers third overall young player pool.

    https://theathletic.com/2035883/2020/09/10/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-3-vancouver-canucks/?source=user_shared_article

    That’s fantastic!

    But nobody here cares.

  81. OriginalPouzar says:

    I didn’t realize the Pronman’s opinion on prospects is gospel.

    I guess there is no disagreeing with any decision made by Dave Tippett – he gets paid to coach and was once named the best in the league.

    I guess there is no disagreeing with any decision made by Ken Holland – he gets paid to manage and is in the Hall of Fame for it.

  82. Harpers Hair says:

    pts2pndr: So Vancouver’s pool of young stars is really not very good. It’s nice to see you have so many people that agree with you, normally you’re a majority of one!

    Oilers are 27th.

    Out of 31.

  83. flea says:

    OriginalPouzar: Gonzo?6 more years of term on that contract.

    No, I don’t put any stock in to any theory that the league will somehow “force” a trade.

    Not making a very very risky acquisition that has the potential to crater the “consistent contender” plan is not akin to “waiting” too long, in my opinion.

    You don’t think the best player in a generation toiling in a perpetually losing team is an issue for the league?

    You don’t think the NHLPA would put pressure on Connor to move to a more competitive team?

    The NHL is a business, the bubble playoffs prove it. And the best player in the league has value. Good businesses maximize their assets.

    I was encouraged by the Oilers play this year, I like Tippett and I like what Holland has done.

    But if a top 10 D comes available – the Oilers should try to get him.

    They aren’t strung by contracts as badly as other teams. And possibly it is an opportunity to ditch a problem contract as well.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    I also can am very confidant I watched Even Bouchard play much much more than Pronman did in the 2019/20 – can’t say that for Broberg mind you.

  85. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I didn’t realize the Pronman’s opinion on prospects is gospel.

    I guess there is no disagreeing with any decision made by Dave Tippett – he gets paid to coach and was once named the best in the league.

    I guess there is no disagreeing with any decision made by Ken Holland – he gets paid to manage and is in the Hall of Fame for it.

    No one’s opinion is gospel…especially yours.

    And appealing to authority is very weak sauce.

  86. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair: Corey Pronman disagrees with you.

    But what does a guy who gets paid to asses prospects for a living know?

    He gets paid to write. How many people has he got on his staff to do all this great work? If he was as good as you seem to make others believe he would be getting payed as a director of scouting for an NHL team. Being controversial gets him more than being correct. I would take LT’s list over Pronman’s list all day long.

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    flea: You don’t think the best player in a generation toiling in a perpetually losing team is an issue for the league?

    You don’t think the NHLPA would put pressure on Connor to move to a more competitive team?

    The NHL is a business, the bubble playoffs prove it. And the best player in the league has value. Good businesses maximize their assets.

    I was encouraged by the Oilers play this year, I like Tippett and I like what Holland has done.

    But if a top 10 D comes available – the Oilers should try to get him.

    They aren’t strung by contracts as badly as other teams. And possibly it is an opportunity to ditch a problem contract as well.

    Of course the league would prefer he have success – the asset is controlled by Daryl Katz, not the NHL or the Board of Governors as a whole. Yes, the NHL is a business and Daryl Katz controls and makes money off that asset – the league cannot “force him” to do anything with it or around it.

    Nope, the NHLPA won’t put pressure on McDavid to demand a trade or something like that – that’s silly to suggest in my opinion.

  88. Scungilli Slushy says:

    The rub with the Oiler’s lack of forward depth is that they have had two lottery picks fail.

    It was pure intense stupidity to draft Yak. Because the team had no success with kids from that area and Yak was even further out not being from Russia prop.

    That was a very thin cohort as evidenced by the success of that draft year. Murray also didn’t pan out who the scouts wanted.

    JP was the consensus 3rd and an obvious choice when picked. Captain Kirk passed. I would wager Pete did no due diligence on him.

    And here we are.

    If both picks had produced quality if not impact players, as they should have, things are very different.

    Holland is and has said he’s trying to stabilize things first.

    I agree with those that think all possible pushing the pedal a bit is a good idea.

    If a team is lucky enough to get elite players it’s not time to sit back

    Bruce’s analysis is so interesting. What to do depends on what you have.

    NYI has no elite talent and can’t get it bcs money. So draft and hold is a good plan.

    That will work for Edmonton but you are burning prime years from exceptional talent.

    The Oilers need a RSC. Or two. But they don’t need a top 6 one, those C positions are locked up.

    Moving that draft pick to wing would be a plan.

    There is also that Connor and Leon eat a ton of cap. It might be better to make some moves and balance the roster, get the photo, and recoup picks and talent later.

    Like Tampa. The failed lottery picks have to change the plan from organic to calculated risk.

    Hopefully Holland isn’t as bad as what we’ve seen with that.

  89. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair: Oilers are 27th.

    Out of 31.

    And you take pleasure in telling me. Your kindness is overwhelming. Rankings are just that and hold little or no value except to a troll like you!

  90. jp says:

    Harpers Hair: I’m not alone.

    Pronman has Rafferty as the fifth best prospect in Vancouvers third overall young player pool.

    https://theathletic.com/2035883/2020/09/10/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-3-vancouver-canucks/?source=user_shared_article

    Harpers Hair: Oilers are 27th.

    Out of 31.

    What is Pronman smoking?

    25 year old Rafferty (and 24 year old McEwan) are included on a 22 and under list of prospects?

    McDavid and Draisaitl (and Bear and Jones) aren’t included even though they’re younger than either Rafferty or McEwan?

    lol

  91. Harpers Hair says:

    pts2pndr: He gets paid to write. How many people has he got on his staff to do all this great work? If he was as good as you seem to make others believe he would be getting payed as a director of scouting for an NHL team. Being controversial gets him more than being correct. I would take LT’s list over Pronman’s list all day long.

    I don’t think LT has ever done a deep dive into the prospect pool of all 31 teams.

    If he ever does, I would be more than happy to read it.

  92. leadfarmer says:

    Harpers Hair: I’m not alone.

    Pronman has Rafferty as the fifth best prospect in Vancouvers third overall young player pool.

    https://theathletic.com/2035883/2020/09/10/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-3-vancouver-canucks/?source=user_shared_article

    But they are there because of two players that are no longer prospects

  93. jp says:

    jp,

    Sounds **totally** legit.

  94. Lowetide says:

    Let’s keep this between the lines men. 100 years from now your children’s children can tear down a Brogan Rafferty statue, but for now let’s pretend he’s a mere mortal and not argue about him.

  95. Victoria Oil says:

    Penny’s brother scores on a breakaway with 7 seconds left in the 2nd period. 1-0 Dallas.

  96. Todd Macallan says:

    jp:
    What is Pronman smoking?

    25 year old Rafferty (and 24 year old McEwan) are included on a 22 and under list of prospects?

    McDavid and Draisaitl (and Bear and Jones) aren’t included even though they’re younger than either Rafferty or McEwan?

    lol

    THIS. Pronman makes a living evaluating young talent and for some reason unknown to all but him chose an arbitrary age cut off of 22. Makes sense he as had to cut of the age somewhere so why not 22.

    Here is a link that doesn’t fit this poster’s narrative of the day posted 1 year ago by the same author where the age was instead chosen to be 23:
    https://theathletic.com/1220133/2019/09/19/pronman-ranking-nhl-teams-by-their-23-and-under-core-2019-20-edition/?article_source=search&search_query=23%20and%20under%20core

  97. leadfarmer says:

    Todd Macallan: THIS. Pronman makes a living evaluating young talent and for some reason unknown to all but him chose an arbitrary age cut off of 22. Makes sense he as had to cut of the age somewhere so why not 22.

    Here is a link that doesn’t fit this poster’s narrative of the day posted 1 year ago by the same author where the age was instead chosen to be 23:
    https://theathletic.com/1220133/2019/09/19/pronman-ranking-nhl-teams-by-their-23-and-under-core-2019-20-edition/?article_source=search&search_query=23%20and%20under%20core

    It was a very odd age cutoff
    Especially that Matthews made it by a week
    But he’s an interesting read but not a good evaluator of talent

  98. nathen99 says:

    Realistically Holland will sign 1b goalie sign are rfas as our moderator likes to say powder kept dry like to lose chiassons contract though afraid all shall be disappointed if thinking big moves ahead

  99. Todd Macallan says:

    Todd Macallan: THIS. Pronman makes a living evaluating young talent and for some reason unknown to all but him chose an arbitrary age cut off of 22. Makes sense he as had to cut of the age somewhere so why not 22.

    Here is a link that doesn’t fit this poster’s narrative of the day posted 1 year ago by the same author where the age was instead chosen to be 23:
    https://theathletic.com/1220133/2019/09/19/pronman-ranking-nhl-teams-by-their-23-and-under-core-2019-20-edition/?article_source=search&search_query=23%20and%20under%20core

    No edit button, by “this poster” I was referring to our resident Canucklehead and certainly not jp, who I am full agreement with.

  100. jp says:

    Todd Macallan: THIS. Pronman makes a living evaluating young talent and for some reason unknown to all but him chose an arbitrary age cut off of 22. Makes sense he as had to cut of the age somewhere so why not 22.

    Here is a link that doesn’t fit this poster’s narrative of the day posted 1 year ago by the same author where the age was instead chosen to be 23:
    https://theathletic.com/1220133/2019/09/19/pronman-ranking-nhl-teams-by-their-23-and-under-core-2019-20-edition/?article_source=search&search_query=23%20and%20under%20core

    Yes, 22 is an odd cutoff but fine.

    My issue is that in the same ranking series, clearly defining the age cutoff as 22, he includes Rafferty and McEwan for the Canucks but doesn’t include the younger McDavid, Draisaitl, Bear and Jones. The same set of rankings but different cutoffs.

    I guess he made a mistake, or forgot.

    I didn’t check to see if other teams ranked between Edmonton and Vancouver also had players over 22 included.

  101. Todd Macallan says:

    jp: Yes, 22 is an odd cutoff but fine.

    My issue is that in the same ranking series, clearly defining the age cutoff as 22, he includes Rafferty and McEwan for the Canucks but doesn’t include the younger McDavid, Draisaitl, Bear and Jones. The same set of rankings but different cutoffs.

    I guess he made a mistake, or forgot.

    I didn’t check to see if other teams ranked between Edmonton and Vancouver also had players over 22 included.

    Yeah it certainly seems like an oversight or else Old Man Brogan appears to have at least 2 cheerleaders out there!

  102. pts2pndr says:

    Harpers Hair: I don’t think LT has ever done a deep dive into the prospect pool of all 31 teams.

    If he ever does, I would be more than happy to read it.

    You switched lanes again. I was not talking about prospect pools. As I said doing so is a fools errand and means absolutely nothing. Value of a prospect pool is purely subjective. Why I was talking about was a draft ranking list.

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think I’m reading a bunch of revisionist history on the Yak pick – it was insanity to draft him because of where he was from? Should the Oilers have avoided Drai? I can’t recall them having success with a drafting from Cologne, or anywhere in Germany.

    Sure, Riley is the winner of the top of that draft but, in reality, that was a Murray vs. Yak decision.

  104. nathen99 says:

    Why many posters give harper any notice at all I find it all very amusing!

  105. unca miltie says:

    Just got a chance to stop by the site tonight. I have said this before but would like to repeat. When I was in Bakersfield last November I was very disappointed with Bouchard. His effort on retrievals’ was poor. Lethargic would work. That game Sammy impressed me much more.

    In late January I went to a game in Ontario.( The Manning game) Bouchard was a far different player. The intensity level was way up and my “saw him good” fits very well with the numbers that said his second half was much better than his first half. IMO the kid is a player and will do will with the Oilers.

  106. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I think I’m reading a bunch of revisionist history on the Yak pick – it was insanity to draft him because of where he was from? Should the Oilers have avoided Drai?I can’t recall them having success with a drafting from Cologne, or anywhere in Germany.

    Sure, Riley is the winner of the top of that draft but, in reality, that was a Murray vs. Yak decision.

    Spec wrote an article on this. The scouts weren’t on board with Yakupov at all. Fans wanted Yakupov though.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-got-wrong-yakupov-start/

  107. Lowetide says:

    unca miltie:
    Just got a chance to stop by the site tonight. I have said this before but would like to repeat. When I was in Bakersfield last November I was very disappointed with Bouchard. His effort on retrievals’ was poor. Lethargic would work. That game Sammy impressed me much more.

    In late JanuaryI went to a game in Ontario.( The Manning game) Bouchard was a far differentplayer. The intensity level was way up and my “saw him good” fits very well with the numbers that said his second half was much better than his first half. IMO the kid is a player and will do will with the Oilers.

    The second half numbers for Bouchard are exceptional, no doubt about it. He’s going to have a fine career.

  108. OriginalPouzar says:

    Would Bouchard make Vancouver’s top U-22, er, U-25 list?

  109. pts2pndr says:

    nathen99:
    Realistically Holland will sign 1b goalie sign are rfas as our moderatorlikes to say powder kept dry like to lose chiassons contract though afraid all shall be disappointed if thinking big moves ahead

    Good call and I think given the uncertainties it is in my opinion the prudent thing to do.

  110. pts2pndr says:

    Lowetide: Spec wrote an article on this. The scouts weren’t on board with Yakupov at all. Fans wanted Yakupov though.

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-got-wrong-yakupov-start/

    I thought the word at the time was that Yakupov was an owner decision and given it’s his hockey team and he pays the freight it is his right.

  111. Harpers Hair says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Would Bouchard make Vancouver’s top U-22, er, U-25 list?

    Of course he would
    He would be neck and neck with Rafferty with a slightly higher
    upside

  112. Harpers Hair says:

    pts2pndr: You switched lanes again. I was not talking about prospect pools. As I said doing so is a fools errand and means absolutely nothing. Value of a prospect pool is purely subjective. Why I was talking about was a draft ranking list.

    Draft ranking lists are swell
    But there are several other ways to aquire NHL players

  113. Munny says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Would Bouchard make Vancouver’s top U-22, er, U-25 list?

    Maybe as Brogan Rafferty’s squire.

    …Golf caddy, valet, driver, whatever you call that guy from the Skip the Dishes ads…

  114. Munny says:

    One or both of Lowe or MacT must have wanted Yak.

  115. Lowetide says:

    Munny:
    One or both of Lowe or MacT must have wanted Yak.

    My guess has always been MacT. He was on his way to the GM job and probably had enormous control even with Tambellini still there.

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    I was going to ask what the wild would want back for Dubnyk if they retained a bit but I wonder if they would trade him for Rusty – I’m not sure Addisson or Gordeev are ready and they likely move on from Brodin – they need D.

    I could see Russell and/or Hamonic there.

  117. jp says:

    Ryan: I agree with others here that with the old *infallible eye test*, he certainly doesn’t look at all like he used to 3-4years ago.

    Almost reminds me a bit of Doughty.

    Remember when Drew Doughty was still Drew Doughty?

    I’m not sure what Doughty is now, but he’s a vestige of his former self.

    I wasn’t meaning to suggest Holland should actually do it, just that our GM *could* leave the worst of that problem to someone else (I also don’t think he would do that sort of thing carelessly, to be fully clear).

  118. Fuge Udvar says:

    Harpers Hair: No one’s opinion is gospel…especially yours.

    And appealing to authority is very weak sauce.

    Harpers Hair: Corey Pronman disagrees with you.

    But what does a guy who gets paid to asses prospects for a living know?

    So.. Which is it..

  119. Unfriendly Regional Arachnid Individual says:

    Fuge Udvar:
    So.. Which is it..

    It’s the same intellectual inconsistency that he brings literally every single day. Stop bothering.

  120. Scungilli Slushy says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I think I’m reading a bunch of revisionist history on the Yak pick – it was insanity to draft him because of where he was from? Should the Oilers have avoided Drai?I can’t recall them having success with a drafting from Cologne, or anywhere in Germany.

    Sure, Riley is the winner of the top of that draft but, in reality, that was a Murray vs. Yak decision.

    Perhaps you don’t recall the Oilers glorious success with Russian players?

    A few survived the BoB, most didn’t.

  121. jp says:

    Scungilli Slushy: Perhaps you don’t recall the Oilers glorious success with Russian players?

    A few survived the BoB, most didn’t.

    61 Russian players have played 500 NHL games (or 250 as a goalie).

    8 of them have played for the Oilers (Boris Mironov the only one to spend the heart of his career with the team).

    I’m not sure I see any reason to think Russian Oiler’s have been notably unsuccessful.

  122. tapper says:

    Quinn Hughes is Torey Krug 2.0. PP specialist.

    Nice piece, but doesn’t win championships without a (much) strong(er) supporting cast.

  123. LMHF#1 says:

    People’s willingness to blow by the fact that Dallas Eakins and an idiot linesman are the reason Yakupov isn’t currently starring on Connor McDavid’s wing in order to suit their narrative is a never-ending annoyance.

    You don’t just course-correct when career development goes sideways. It’s not automatic and when a player that thrives on confidence and joy for the game has that completely undermined it is no surprise that they don’t recover.

  124. OriginalPouzar says:

    Not great:

    Complete Hockey News
    @CompleteHkyNews
    The Finnish government has placed Jokerit on a mandatory 2-week quarantine after their game against Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk Wednesday, effectively postponing their next five games.

    Seven members of Nizhnekamsk tested positive for COVID-19 upon arriving in Riga yesterday.

  125. OriginalPouzar says:

    LMHF#1:
    People’s willingness to blow by the fact that Dallas Eakins and an idiot linesman are the reason Yakupov isn’t currently starring on Connor McDavid’s wing in order to suit their narrative is a never-ending annoyance.

    You don’t just course-correct when career development goes sideways. It’s not automatic and when a player that thrives on confidence and joy for the game has that completely undermined it is no surprise that they don’t recover.

    But why couldn’t Nail recover under multiple other coaches in multiple other NHL organizations and the KHL?

  126. LMHF#1 says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Because the damage was done.

    That’s the exact point of what I said.

    The idea that everyone recovers is flat wrong. We watched what a destructive organization and bad coaching can do to many many players.

    You don’t get that time back. You don’t get those decisions back. It is the exception that someone is able to overcome – not the rule.

    Development matters. Always has.

  127. OriginalPouzar says:

    Sure, not everyone recovers but that is often on the player – in this case, the player was let go fairly young with lots of road ahead to recover. He had different development paths in multiple organizations in multiple leagues and has become a middling player in a good league.

    Confidence is a thing and, yes, it matters – of course, a player with zero confidence can, all of a sudden be fully confident after one good game where he gets a couple of goals – one on a goalie mistake and another on a lucky deflection – boom confidence.

    Confidence can be gained in an instant.

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