If you look back on the Oilers recent past, there’s plenty of young talent that has fallen through the cracks. We tend to dismiss all of those who don’t make the NHL, but productive seasons in quality leagues like the KHL and SHL reflect success, too.
Did all of these young men fail? Or did the Oilers fail these young men?
Jonathan Willis: What comes next for the Oilers’ Jesse Puljujarvi?
Lowetide: Why Evan Bouchard, Ryan McLeod and more prospects are options for Oilers in 2021-22
DNB: Ten teams the Oilers should be targeting for trades ahead of the Kraken expansion draft
Lowetide: How Ken Holland’s transaction history could foreshadow the Oilers summer to come
Jonathan Willis: Why some of the most popular moves Ken Holland could make would be mistakes
Lowetide: Why huge Oil Kings goalie Sebastian Cossa could be the perfect first-round fit for the Oilers
2015 SUMMER TOP 20
Right after the draft, as I usually do, I posted a re-rank of the top-20 Oilers prospects. Edmonton has reaped great benefits from those men in the years since, but how many could have contributed more to the Oilers?
LC Connor McDavid. The franchise. Words are all we have until fall, and we used them all up before the draft. NHLE: 82GP, 23-40-63. McDavid is the best player in the game, 407 career NHL games, averaging 39-77-116 per 82 games and three Art Ross, three Ted Lindsay and two Hart trophies.
LC Leon Draisaitl. Remember the days without a big C in the system? Maybe he ends up on LW but the size/skill combination is too good to trade no matter how severe the defensive woes become this fall. I love his passing, he’s a wonderful player. NHLE: 82GP, 15-26-41.Winner of the Hart, Lindsay and Art Ross in 2020, he has played in 478 NHL games. Draisaitl averages 34-53-87 per 82 games.
LHD Darnell Nurse. The Oilers future on blue, it’s just a matter of when he arrives. The big item for Nurse is his speed, he’s a fast train who can recover quickly and pressure opponents into mistakes. I don’t think there’s evidence that he’ll score 40 points a season, but that aside, Nurse does appear to have the full range of skills. NHLE: 82GP, 7-16-23. He hit 40 points at 23, and had his best season in 2020-21. Had plenty of detractors but that seems to be in the past (mostly). Has played 406 NHL games, 9-23-32 for 82 games.
LHD Griffin Reinhart. Big defender (6.04, 217) was a dominant junior player, basically neutralizing his part of the ice as an Oil Kings blue (and playing monster minutes each game). His one pro season contained (in his own words) some struggles. NHLE: 82GP, 6-11-17.Played 30 games with the Oilers, incredible unforced error.
LC Bogdan Yakimov. Big C impressed during TC, then struggled offensively for long stretches. It took time for him to find his way in OKC, but when he finally settled in the results started to roll in. He hit his stride in final 13 AHL games (6-6-12) before losing his season to injury. NHLE: 82GP, 10-13-23. Russians don’t like playing minor league games for the Oilers. Yakimov had a disappointing career overall.
RW Iiro Pakarinen.6.01, 205 winger with grit and skill. He came into the organization and passed damn near everybody, eventually finding his way to the NHL before injuries derailed his season a little. I think he has a real chance here. NHLE: 82GP, 16-11-27. He was a better scorer than he was given credit for, but did get into 134 NHL games (about two seasons) and scored 10-13-23.
RC Kyle Platzer.He emerged as a genuine NHL prospect in his final junior year. Platzer has skill in abundance, but before he blossomed the young man’s reputation was as a two-way type. NHLE: 82GP, 12-17-29. He didn’t develop as an offensive player .
RW Greg Chase. Gritty forward with offensive ability. Agitator of the first degree. Chase remains unique on the Oilers prospect list, a fiery player with skill and attitude, willing to give no quarter and likely to initiate trouble. NHLE: 82GP, 8-16-24. Like Platzer, he couldn’t deliver enough offensively to move up the depth chart in the AHL.
RW Anton Slepyshev. It is so difficult to project prospects who play in Euro major leagues. Slepyshev scored 15 goals in a tough damn league playing 12:26 a night, that’s a substantial player (especially at 20). Began the KHL season 39GP 5-7-12, then posted 19GP, 10-3-13 to end the year. NHLE: 82GP, 17-11-28. Slepyshev is one of the reasons I decided to do this little exercise, he is one of the men who Edmonton might have found useful over these last years. Holland tried to get him signed to a contract a year ago, his KHL season in 2020-21 delivered an NHLE of 49 points in 82 games.
RHD Ethan Bear. Bear clicked off all of the boxes: Good skater, makes pinpoint passes, makes good decisions, calm feet, built like a tank (5.11, 200) and can hit hard. NHLE: 82GP, 5-9-14. One of the true success stories outside the top three, Bear has played in 132 NHL games. He is averaging 5-15-20 per 82 games and has played much of his first two seasons against elite competition .
G Laurent Brossoit. One of the best stories out of OKC last season, Brossoit’s numbers (.918SP) suggest an actual goalie prospect on the horizon. Edmonton’s goalie situation remains fluid despite the acquisition of Cam Talbot, don’t count out a recall if things go wacky again in Edmonton. Brossoit has played in 82 NHL games, and has proven to be a solid backup for the Winnipeg Jets in two of the last three seasons.
LHD Joey Laleggia. Quality offensive defenseman at the NCAA level, the downside is size (5.09, 182) and the upside is a splendid puck-moving defenseman. The Oilers have a few in the system (Justin Schultz, Brad Hunt) and the level and degree of ability varies. NHLE: 82GP, 14-23-37. He delivered three impressive seasons in the minors but never made an NHL appearance.
LHD Dillon Simpson.The jump from college to pro was a big challenge early for the young defender, but he found his way as the season rolled along. Doesn’t bring much offense. NHLE: 82GP, 2-9-11. He played three NHL games and has been a solid AHL blue for seven seasons now.
G Eetu Laurikainen. His scouting report (athletic with a great glove) and save percentage are strong. He has established himself as a No. 1 goalie in the Liiga.
RW Andrew Miller. Season over season progress in the AHL (34 points in year one, 60 in year two) indicates the period of adjustment is over and he may be ready for a higher league. NHLE: 82GP, 16-19-35. Miller made it to the NHL for 15 games.
LHD Jordan Oesterle. I’ve absolutely bought in on Oesterle after seeing him at the NHL level. He’s fast! You have to respect a player with wheels and in Oesterle’s case there’s a substantial amount of good information on the resume. NHLE: 82GP, 6-12-18. I’m not sure Edmonton can be blamed for cutting him loose but he has played as an NHL regular for four seasons now. He has played 252 NHL games and is averaging 5-16-21 per 82 games.
LHD Caleb Jones. A mobile defender with a reputation for being a very good passer (seemed to be a theme in this year’s draft). 6.0, 194, can skate well and thinks the game well based on scouting reports. NHLE: 82GP, 2-5-7. Based on speed alone it’s easy to project a 15-year career but he had struggles this year. Has played in 93 NHL games and is averaging 4-13-17 per 82 games.
LHC Jujhar Khaira. If he could only score a little more, Khaira would be much higher on this list. The Oilers have drafted so many players his size (6.03, 214) who have one flaw or another. We identify the flaw early, watch the player progress, stall and then get flushed out of the league. Travis Ewanyk is a recent example. NHLE: 82GP, 4-5-9. Despite shy offense, his size and rugged play has earned Khaira an NHL career. He has played 258 NHL games, averaging 8-12-20 per 82 games.
RW Tyler Pitlick. He’s the ultimate recent example of a guy who always looks like a player but the results don’t follow. Injuries have derailed him, he’s Wile E. Coyote. I think he may need a second organization. There’s always a chance, the new coach coming in might like what he brings. NHLE: 82GP, 8-16-24. Has now played in 286 NHL games, averaging 13-11-24 per 82 games. Josh Archibald is in his role, I think Pitlick is a better player.
LHD William Lagesson. Physical defenseman with a reputation for being solid in coverage. It’s so hard to quantify his progress but I believe (based on reports) he had a good season. Years away. NHLE: 82GP, 1-6-7. Lagesson has played in 27 NHL games and is facing a somewhat uncertain future with a lot of competition on the way.
PER 82 GAMES
Connor McDavid 39-77-116
Leon Draisaitl 34-53-87
Darnell Nurse 9-23-32
Tyler Pitlick 13-11-24
Jordan Oesterle 5-16-21
Jujhar Khaira 8-12-20
Ethan Bear 5-15-20
Anton Slepyshev 8-11-19
Caleb Jones 4-13-17
Iiro Pakarinen 6-8-14
Laurent Brossoit 82 games, .908
KEITH, JONES
Frank Seravalli was dropping truth bombs on the Lowdown yesterday, giving us some insight into the ‘Hawks-Oilers negotiations re: Duncan Keith. As I understand it, the names we’ve been hearing (Jones) and some of the details (Chicago won’t retain) appear to be coming from the Chicago side. Frank suggested Ken Holland has rejected several asks (Elliotte Friedman dropped his thoughts late last night and had the same general thrust) and I think we’re at a game of chicken at this time.
If this happens, I suspect it’ll be something close to Jones for Keith with some money retained via including Kyle Turris in the trade or having Stan Bowman retain. I’m not sure why Oilers fans are mad at Bowman, asking for more than value is part of negotiation.
TAYLOR HALL
There’s some rumblings that Hall will hit the open market and if he does Holland needs to pursue him with a furious urgency. He can push the river, play with 97 or 29 or even 93, and his zone exits and entries have shone like a diamond forever. Injuries are a concern, but Hall remains a unique talent and Edmonton could close a massive talent gap and basically guarantee two outscoring lines with his acquisition.
I have never been more sure of anything in my life as a hockey fan. Get. Taylor. Freaking. Hall!
This is something that myself and others on here have been advocating for and it makes a ton of sense as the only way to get this done given neither team wants the full cap hit.
Interesting when he’s talking Jones vs Keith that he is looking at on-ice results in the here and now as the only comparator. He’s not recognizing that age, club control, salary and progression/regression of career, etc are what the fans are more concerned about if those are the two pieces in a trade. Looking at it over the next two years only, I can get the argument that Keith may be a better fit than Jones on the second pair, but even that is far from a given. Even if he is, the marginal difference wouldn’t be worth an extra $4.5 million or so in cap. Jones for Keith at half his salary and you can start to see some sense in it for the short term.
leadfarmer
July 10, 2021 8:45 pm
One thing I can see happening is Holland offering a one year show me deal to Tatar and him taking it.
No points in buying out Neal until after the expansion draft – buyout window goes through July 27. I am still fantasizing about a 2nd buyout window but don’t see it happening.
I also don’t think its certain the Neal gets bought out.
Even with his Covid-ravaged crap year, he did have 1.44 P/60 and he has 24 goals in his last 82 games……
I knew he had a half decent P/60 this year, but when you put it that way (24G/82GP) it seems somewhat plausible he might not get bought out.
Though this is essentially the opposite view as Kassian has shown nothing at all since 2019 (since Neal hasn’t either).
I dunno. Buyout this season vs next: costs $3.8M more this season but saves $1.9M in 24-25. Holland sounded 95% sure he was buying someone out this summer, he must have been talking about Neal, right?
There is also likely to be another top6 acquisition and that player may factor in to the PP.
Glovjuice
July 10, 2021 7:54 pm
In what fucked up alternate universe is 97, Drai, and Nuge not the best centre depth in history? It’s truely in the water. Makes no sense. Because Oilers.
So do we play them down the middle and go and get Glendening or Ryan to take DZ FOs? Glendening or Ryan could play wing? With McLeod?
Glovjuice
July 10, 2021 6:52 pm
My true fandom died when Hall was traded. Crazy I know; being a fan since late 70’s and with Drai and 97 on the team and all. But something just left…I actually went to one of those community rinks to watch Hall after he was drafted during summer camp – I DO NOT waste time on that type of thing. But I did for Hall (I have no idea why but I did). I even listened to most of the AHL games on a radio app during that lockout to follow Hall. When he was injured in year one (I think) I saw it in a bar before an ESO show and was devastated so much so that it runined my night – ludicrous. If we get Hall back I will be off the wall excited. Don’t care about contract; don’t care about risk; age; term; whatever. If we win the cup with Taylor Hall it would be an absolute explosion of epic proportions for me. Also, got tickets to Deafheaven in Van for March 21, 2022.
Sather traded all the vets so they could get finally get one last contract that paid as appreciation for being good soldiers. Sather was the best GM the game has ever seen.
Yakupov at the league minimum would be one of the best moves they could make.
The man can score at the NHL level and can play with McDavid. Don’t let Eakins, McLellan and a goddamn rando linesman win in the end!
maxwellmischief
July 10, 2021 6:43 pm
It seems like Taylor has always felt he has unfinished business in YEG. Just a sense from reporting. If a player of that caliber is available for nothing but money and wants to be in Edmonton… get it done!
I can’t seem to find the reference, but it’s possible. I saw them a couple of times (when Billy Cowsill was in the band) and had their records. I Can’t Make No Sense is a great song.
As for good “new country” music, I’ve been listening to Lucinda Williams, Drive-By Truckers and Jason Isbell lately. I don’t think that’s new, but I like it.
Cool! That is a great song. I also really liked Blue You and Too Late to Turn Back although the entire album is a good listen. I remember having the cassette and most likely “donating” it at a house party, lol. I remember the local radio station in my small hometown had the blue record, a four song EP (it was literally blue!). They were quite popular in my area.
Later on, the hometown recreation committee brought in the Cowsill-led Blue Shadows for a concert. Backstage, one of the local musicians (opening act band) was strumming a guitar and asked Billy if he remembers his Blue Northern days and sang Blue You, a song Cowsill co-wrote. He vaguely remembered. Then he sang Vagabond, that one he remembered (he also co-wrote that one I think) and ended up singing it that night.
Randle McMurphy
July 10, 2021 6:02 pm
I’m trying to kick start my new profession…. aggregator of NHL news.
Here is todays update:
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That is all.
Reja
July 10, 2021 5:59 pm
Incoming Driedger Keith Connolly and ? Outgoing Jones Bear and Mikko.
Cogs was a burner, should never have been traded in my opinion. But unless I’ve bonked my melon one to many times(I have) I don’t recall him doing a 2nd stint. Am I out to lunch LT?
McDavid, Drai, and Nuge – not strong enough down the middle. Does this not sound fucked up to anyone but me?
Defense and goal are also ‘down the middle’. And Nuge generally plays wing now, as you surely know.
theDjdj
July 10, 2021 4:41 pm
Oilers better retire Kevin Lowe’s number before Hall comes back and reclaims it
Ozoil
July 10, 2021 4:33 pm
If Holland can get Hall at something under 6, say 5.8 for around 4 or 5 years Edmonton would have 4 of their top six locked up for a few seasons with JP KY in the mix and whichever prospects make it. This would be the closest to balance up front for first time since the cup run. We know Hall can play with nuge and drai as his centers already too.
leadfarmer
July 10, 2021 4:16 pm
Well I still think we are a year out from real contention but Holland could get a real good head start if he addresses most of 1LW, 3C, 2LD, 1G
So much angst and gnashing of teeth towards Holland and management lately and the silliness hasn’t even happened yet ? starting to think 6 Rings & Chia are posting multiple times here a day.
Randle McMurphy
July 10, 2021 3:06 pm
If Taylor Hall wants to win a Cup, and is willing to take a hometown discount 3 x$5m , this town would grant him “favoured son” status.
Otherwise, I’d prefer to pay $7m to see one year of Taylor Hall on the Edmonton Oilers and then go from there.
What the Coyotes decided to do has nothing to do with Hall, the failed experiment was on the Yotes.
The Yotes did absolutely nothing to lure Hall to sign anything, so he left because of their inability to properly run a franchise.
Tying the failures of the Coyotes to Hall’s contract this off season is one hell of a adventure travelled, the man had 14pts in 16 regular season games for the Bruins then followed it up with 9 pts in 11 playoff games for the Bruins. And he’s going to sign some low-end deal due to the failures of the Coyotes? I need to put down the weed.
Hall had 5 points in 11 playoff games, not 9 – big difference.
Hall was:
1) mediocre in 2019/20 for the Yotes
2) poor in 2021 for the Sabres
3) quite good in 2021 for the Bruins in the regular season
4) disappointing for the Bruins in the playoffs.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited to sign him for 3-4 years but at $6M or under – he is turning 30 and he hasn’t had a plus season since 2017/18 (2018/19 was only 30 or so games) and he had a few “meh” seasons prior that MVP year.
JOFA
July 10, 2021 1:43 pm
Stanley: “hey Kenny, we want Bear and McLeod for Keith”
Kenny: “Just one second Stanley. Hey boys, should I throw in Jones too? I remember in Detroit when…*still rambling 5 minutes later* when we made some good trades, we made some really good trades. It’s all about good trades and building, yeah building. I just want you to know Stanley that I’m a still a grinder like I was in Detroit”.
Stanley: “We know Kenny, we know” *winks to his management team*
Everything Holland does or doesn’t do is wrong by your posts. My question is why? Holland had been a breath of fresh air since taking over as GM. Gets blamed for a couple of moves that due flat cap and COVID were not ideal but he had no way of knowing the future. If anyone is honest he has been above average and far better than his predecessors. His hands were tied early by cap restraints. Under his leadership many aspects of the organization have improved including drafting, development and the NHL coaching. He is a man, were you expecting miracles? In my opinion the man has earned far more respect than you seem willing to give him. If the fan base expects quality in management they have to at least give the man a legitimate chance to succeed?
How much toilet paper does your family consume in a month? I would like to invite you over for coffee and help you get started working for yourself, and on the road to financial independence?
This – he’s been the best Oilers GM so far of the past 15 years easily. He’s not the best GM in the league but probably in the top half. As an Oiler fan that’s a huge relief.
This is incredible. You’ve created a real fake narrative based on the narrative of talking heads. I think my head will explode.
#noaccountabilityfromthepeanutgallery
He didn’t need to, between his drafting and the no cap Era.
Before becoming a general manager, Holland spent seven years as the directer of amateur scouting and three years as the assistant general manager for the Red Wings. As a scout, he secured the drafting of players like Nicklas Lidstrom, Sergei Fedorov, Vladimir Konstantinov, Darren McCarty, and Chris Osgood.
In 1997, Holland was promoted to general manager. Under his management, the team won four Presidents’ Trophies (2002, 2004, 2006, and 2008), ten division championships, five conference titles, and reached 100 regular-season points at a league-high 13 times in 17 seasons. No other team in NHL history has reached more than ten 100-point seasons.
He didn’t need to, between his drafting and the no cap Era.
In 1997, Holland was promoted to general manager. Under his management, the team won four Presidents’ Trophies (2002, 2004, 2006, and 2008), ten division championships, five conference titles, and reached 100 regular-season points at a league-high 13 times in 17 seasons.
Also, the first 7 of those seasons were pre-cap. The last 10 were post-cap. Lots of continued success after the cap was introduced.
I also don’t think Oleksiak would be better, on the Oilers. Him with Larsson is not a great pair because of mobility issues. He is also getting his boat floated big time in Dallas.
He will be 29 and will need term, won’t be much cheaper, will be less productive than Keith, isn’t a good fit strategically with the leftorium, and he’s not coming here anyway.
If you made that trade and someone took on an additional $2 million cap, then it gets interesting as a trade. I’m on record as keeping Jones, but that’s problematic because he did in fact struggle. Keith is also problematic for other reasons, but if the coach is more comfortable with a veteran, and Keith’s cap hit is $2 million at the cost of Caleb Jones and offloading Turris, I think you could live with that.
I agree with that as well. Just think that at the cap hit Woodguy laid out it’s a poor deal. And I’m not quite sure I parse the tea leaves with the cap hit being as high as he’s thinking although as always Darcy’s logic is sound.
I don’t do that trade but Id be ok if the cap retention was 50% or offloading Kassian instead of Turris. That said I haven’t seen a lot of Keith over the past few years, am hoping with a lesser workload he’ll be more effective.
Funny Bissonness
July 10, 2021 1:02 pm
So I know we lost the Adam Larsson for Hall swap. It obviously made us the butt of the joke for quite a long time. If I have to hear “the trade is one-for-one” one more time, so help me.
But Adam Larsson has now played 115 more games for the Oilers than Hall played for the Devils. If Larsson resigns and provides us with a couple more good years, and we bring Hall back into the fold, that trade starts looking a lot better for the Oil.
We would have been better with Hall on our team the last few years, but not so good we would have an extra cup right now imo.
I think Larsson lifting the cup as an Oiler would finally put that joke to rest. Larsson then handing the cup to Hall would be the icing on the cake. Not that Holland should make decisions based on getting other people to stop laughing at us, just sayin’.
Holland did play hardball last year in some negations and ended up with nothing. (I exclude Turris)
I fully support Holland holding the line, he just may have to bend a little to land players in Edmonton. In regards to Larson, he must work with a player who wants to be here, not drive him off.
I think you mean it doesn’t make sense for the team – just as it didn’t make sense for the team when negotiating with Nuge and they went 8 years in order to get the lower cap hit.
I don’t consider $4M for Larsson overpaying for his prime years.
Yes, I know the numbers show offence died when he was on the ice but, at the same time, being able to shut down tough opposition, like he did, with a revolving door or unproven LD as his partner, with 84% non-McDavid minutes, plus PK, plus core leadership, plus “tough to play against”, etc……….. he’s worth $4M.
Vlasic is 34 and his play dropped off around 31-32. Larsson will be 29 early in the season. A 3 year deal would be ideal but 4 isn’t a killer given his age. You’re right they don’t age well going into their 30s but you’re not signing him to an 8 year deal at $7 million per like Wilson did with Vlasic either. Agree with others that $4 million is too high though. On a 4 year deal it should be under $3.5 and on a 3 year deal maybe $3.5 is fair value.
I understand your thinking but D with more experience appear to get the benefit from refereeing. D also take longer to mature and are usually better through 28 thru 32. Experience seems to be a greater asset for D than it does for forwards.
The age 27-33 prime years for defensemen is dated and mostly useable for top level defensemen that can handle when they lose a step. When Larsson loses a step it’s going to be catastrophic
but if he takes the hard minutes off someone else’s shoulders for next couple of years I’ll be ok with his overpayment
We are not looking at him being prime and or top four for his term. He holds extreme value for being the steady hand veteran to partner our left side D of Samorukov and Broberg. Value comes in more than one way.?
Who is in favour of trading the first rounder this year?
Im thinking this is the time. We have already discussed this is a summer of opportunity. How many teams need to shed some cap and/ or have a good roster player they cannot protect?
First rounder, even at 19 is at extreme value this year.
Targets? I don’t know right now. Jost?
So hoping we get anotherYamomoto level talent in 2-3 years vs getting a known NHL player cost controlled for 2-3 years.
Do uou trade the first rounder or first plus? Or take the pick?
I think we’re in the window now, yes. A package that includes the first-round pick would be wise if the return will be productive and around for the next four seasons.
I’m with you. Time to get going. I am willing to move it plus for Reinhart but have mentioned here that Buffalo might be willing to take our 2022 first instead since they already have 7 draft picks in the top 100 this year.
Yup. I am fine with using this year’s 1st round pick for the right player but with Buffalo they might see next year’s first as working even better for them.
Reinhart with an agreed extension is still my first choice for a ‘name’, top six trade this off season.
Citing “they have 8 centers”, when that includes depth prospects than have been meandering like Lias Andersson is simply dishonest or misleading.
Tyler Madden is turning 22 at the beginning of this season and was poor in the AHL as a 21 year old – how that is bluechip when one professes good players show themselves early is, well, not possible. Turcotte is indeed a nice prospect – not close to the NHL based on early pro results.
If your attention is on the possible outcome for other teams you will never win a cup! To win a championship you have to focus on your path and give a damn about what others are doing. To win you can not see someone else as the winner! Never get caught in paralysis by analysis! There is only one winner!
I agree depending on the plus. My concern is our lack of prospects and or draft choices that would extremely shorten and or negate our winning a cup. Close doesn’t make it with our core just entering their prime! We are not at the all in man the torpedoes stage!
Vancouver got a top 6 power forward entering the prime of his career signing for four years at a reasonable number, derisked with production in two organizations, for a 1st round pick.
That was JT Miller.
Jost is ridiculously inadequate. One can pick up forwards at various price points and skillsets in UFA to obviate the need to trade the 1st round pick.
Sam Girard or Mikhael Sergachev are the only two players that I have identified so far where trading the 1st round draft pick would be acceptable.
John Gibson might be acceptable, but why not just sign Driedger and draft Cossa. Then one has a full pipeline of goaltenders separated appropriately by stage of career.
i.e. Smith, Driedger, Skinner/Konovalev, Rodrique, Cossa A plethora of bets with diverse expiry rather than pushing all in on one bet on Gibson.
Sabres and Eichel May have been the best choice of the leftovers who had cap space. Halls 1 year contract says he was not thinking a Buffalo long term. It was a good bet for a Covid season of few choices.
They’re aging though. I’m a Bruins fan and would guess they won’t make it back to another final with this group.
winchester
July 10, 2021 12:28 pm
Getting Taylor Hall would be a huge skill boost to the line up. However, this changes everything. He’s Not the perfect fit as a battler to compliment the other skill. He’s Not going to go stand in front of the net while the others play keep a way.
Both Yamamoto and JP got stuck in this net front role last year. JP succeeded because he’s a horse, but it underutilizes his skill, Yamo was game but took a beating.
So slamming Hall into two top lines would not be the answer in my opinion.
What Hall allows is to balance out the entire roster.
Hall – Mcdavid
Drai – Yamo
Nuge – JP
Now you can add those less expensive battlers, puck retrievers and give and go experts to each line. Bring in size to support skill.
Add Armia and Killorn or Goodrow, Benson, Holloway. Maybe Kassian comes back with the crowds in seats.
Your last statement is my point. Mixing Hall into the top 6 duplicates skills without providing balance. BUT if Hall comes onto the roster he allows huge flexibility to round out the entire roster.
Ethan Bear is a very good RD. If he is able to meet his potential, is that as a top-pairing complement to Nurse? Or 2nd pairing? Is Bear’s ability to meet his potential (relative position) affected by Bouchard’s trajectory?
Nurse – Bear (or Barrie)
xxx (Keith) – (Larsson or Barrie) or Bear
Jones – Bouchard
Russell
With Bear’s RFA status still a year away and the recent news that Bear wouldn’t be included in a Keith trade- I think the answer becomes pretty clear.
Nurse – Bear
(Keith) – (Larsson or Barrie)
Jones – Bouchard
If you look at the size and weight of the top six defenders on the final 4 teams, Bear is too small. I agree he is a good defenseman on a good contract and is a valuable regular season defender. That is why we should pursue D Hamilton hard. If we get a defenseman like that, we can trade Bear for quality back
Hamilton/Larsson is a massive upgrade on Bear/Larsson.
I, in no way, want to trade Bear, however, if Hamilton was willing to sign, for sure, I would trade Bear for an upgrade at forward – would probably look somewhere different than Patrick but the Bear to Hamilton upgrade is massive.
Yes, Hamilton is better than Bear. But Hamilton will also get around $6.5m more than Bear on his next deal.
Ethan Bear’s value is much higher than a reclamation project that missed all of 2019-20 and played awful in 2020-21
OriginalPouzar
July 10, 2021 12:24 pm
A couple trade targets for key position holes (as not everything can be solved in free agency):
Tyler Bertuzzi – younger and more productive than Hyman (playing with lesser linemates) – RFA – $3.5M qualifying offer – will get a raise – need to diligence that back!
Mattias Elkholm – if Klefbom is not coming back this year. One year left at $3.75M – value contract for sure but risk is him being a one-year rental. Presumably the Preds would want forward skill which is not what the Oilers have in abundance.
Tyler Bertuzzi – younger and more productive than Hyman (playing with lesser linemates)
Ekholm would definitely be interesting.
On Bertuzzi/Hyman are you adjusting production based on linemates? Or giving Hyman zero slack on production due to injury?
You’ve done the latter before, but in this case (if that’s why you’re saying Bertuzzi is more productive) you’d be incorrect.
Last 3 seasons Hyman has scored 165-57-54-111. 0.67 P/GP. He missed quite a bit of time the past 2 seasons but scored at a 82-31-30-61 pace in the last 2.
Bertuzzi missed even more time with the back injury (mainly) and scored 153-47-55-102, 0.67 P/GP over 3 seasons.
They scored at identical rates, Hyman with a few more goals, and was actually healthier then Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has had pretty good linemates too (about 60% of his time with Larkin), though not to the same extent as Hyman.
Bertuzzi certainly is younger, and should be cheaper, though it’s unclear exactly how much.
Can tell you that the biggest reason Ekholm was not traded (besides Nashville going on a run) was that Poile was asking for a lot – top prospects and top pick and Philly refused to budge.
If Nashville is going to move any d-man this summer, Ellis might be the one.
flyfish1168
July 10, 2021 12:19 pm
KH needs to draw a line in the sand. I would just go public and say 60% retain is the starter. If you want Jones then we need a 2nd rounder in return. The end result is 50% retained and a 3rd rounder. Bowman has no leverage and Keith needs to be done a good solid.
It is unprofessional. But somehow things leak out like asking for Bear and/or Mcleod. A leak from our side may be all is needed to pressure Keith or Bowman to realize CAP space is the most important asset here and not Keith.
Yeah amazing how often lately we’ve been seeing things like 3/4 retention proposals.
OriginalPouzar
July 10, 2021 11:24 am
If the speculation that Hall is looking for 3-4 years of term is true then, 100%, that should be a prime target for the Oilers. If the Oilers can get Hall for 3-4 years at under $6M per season, that would be excellent.
Is under $6M for that term realistic? Maybe, maybe not. I still think his “name value” has been greater than “on ice value” and he may be able to get more but recent production doesn’t warrant more.
If Hall is looking for security (3-4 years) and winning, as he has indicated, then the Oilers at under $6M might make sense for him. Maybe its taking a bit less then he could get elsewhere (maybe not though) but it would be contract terms that work for the player and helps the team win – asking for more makes the team worse.
Imagine Hall and Nuge as the team’s 3rd and 4th best forwards (give or take a Puljujarvi)? They were once 1-2 and now would be 3-5.
That’s the type of contract that I have always been adverse to.
My interest relates to the “speculation”/”accounts” that he’s looking for 3-4 years and from my personal thought that, given recent years’ performance, the price should be apx $6M AAV (or even less).
I agree he will definitely command more money. He got 8 mil last year. 7-8mil on a 3-4 year term is probable. I would prefer Tarasenko with 1-2 mil retained. That would be a 5.5-6.5 cap hit, plus he is a proven winner. Though IF we could get Hall, it would cost us no assets, I would rather give up some assets to get Tarasenko. And I am a Hall fan
He turns 30 a month in to the season and hasn’t produced as a $7M player in either of the last two seasons (he did the season before but only for 30 something games due to injury).
He may get it but he’s not a $7M player right now.
Without diving too deep into it, my outer marker offer to Hall would be around 7×7. My outer marker for Nuge was 6×6 for context. If it’s 3 or 4 years, I’d go up to 8 million. Does he get more than 8 million in this environment? Good chance he’d come in below that and the Oilers could make an aggressive offer.
And while we’re at it, lets trade for Eberle, would be so sweet to win a cup with all those guys involved.
I’m not sure how that type of AAV is justified – he hasn’t had a high-end season since his Hart (37 points in 33 games the next year but it was only 33 games).
He’s been well below a PPG in two seasons and two playoffs since.
I can see him getting more than $6M per but I don’t see how it reflects his value on the ice over the last few years.
OriginalPouzar
July 10, 2021 11:20 am
Its kind of amazing that 16-20 (well, 19 but, arguably 20) on that list are all NHL players.
This proves that “no elite prospects” can help in the NHL if given time to mature and opportunity when they are ready.
If the NHL is really going to crack down on crosschecking, I would take at least 250K off Larsson’s next deal and if I was the Habs, I would start practicing the PK right now given Weber etc
—-
Yup. Tread real carefully on that Larsson contract. I’d wait and go after Hamilton, see if you can get him and Nurse for 14 million combined.
This is what scares me about big bets, management makes a big bet and the league changes the rules and now we have dead cap. I’d almost prefer if there was a one year delay before introducing rule changes to make it more fair and give teams time to adjust.
Hall is a very very good hockey player. However, I do question his character, and character wins cups (see Patrick Maroon for a recent example).
I am not talking about silly rumours and hearsay. I’m talking about what was noticeable in his time in Edmonton, which included tantrums on the bench and a noticeable lack of sticking up for his teammates when things weren’t going his way. Many times I watched Hall skate away from scrums where his mates needed him.
It also worries me when a guy who lights up the score sheet starts bouncing around teams. There is only one common denominator there.
Fantastic player? No question. Next piece of the puzzle…? Not so sure.
The results on the ice matter and he’s reputedly liked by the core on the Oilers. Not sure without being in the room how anyone could really know about any of this. Being pissed on the bench isn’t a bad thing, shows he actually gives a shit about winning.
I haven’t observed McDavid leave his mates in scrums like I have with Hall. I have not seen McDavid bounce around to different teams as we all have with Hall.
I’m referring to direct observation. He is reputedly liked is not the same as I’ve been in the dressing room, or I know Connor and he does like him. It is unfounded.
I have observed him skating away from helping his teammates in a scrum. I have watched him bounce from one team to another. This is not speculation, it is observation.
I’ve never bought in to this narrative about Hall not sticking up for teammates and avoiding scrums – no more so than Nuge, Puljujarvi, McLeod, Kahun, Jones, Russell, etc.
TheGreatBigMac
July 10, 2021 10:53 am
What is a good place to find data on a players most common linemates?
Natural Stat Trick. Here are Connor McDavid’s five on five linemates in 2020-21. The drop downs allow you to change players and you can sort by clicking on category name.
Roles are a weird thing with this team. It seems like a reasonable strategy to have them be clearly defined so that players can concentrate on their strengths in that role and build confidence. In my mind this relates both to position and a players relative spot in the line-up. I’m talking about “fit”.
-Hall as a player has many fine attributes. Would he fit with McDavid or Draisaitl? Draisaitl right?
-RNH as a player has many fine attributes. Does he fit with McDavid, Draisaitl or another line? If Hall plays with Leon then RNH would fit on the top line? or 3LW?
RNH hasn’t shown any improvement in his face-off ability over the course of his career. I can’t imagine him playing C without a new-hire to cover for him on the dot.
Well that depends on what the definition of is, is.
theWaxCollector
July 10, 2021 10:19 am
If Hall landed with the team, I’d be tempted to run him with McDavid due to Nuge’s 5×5 last year. Can you image turning the puck over with McDavid, Hall, and Puljujarvi on the ice? Fast break bonanza
Nothing really there from Matty – only substantive info is the Oilers don’t want to qualify Khaira but want to bring him back at a lower price – Gregor provided that a week ago.
Other than that, it was Matty passively-aggressively mocking those that are more interested in Tarasenko than Keith because he’s been injured – I’m quite certain Matty has zero knowledge over anyone reading regarding Tarasenko’s actual health and how it may effect his play the next few years.
Bling
July 10, 2021 10:16 am
“I have never been more sure of anything in my life as a hockey fan. Get. Taylor. Freaking. Hall!”
YES. With LT and OP officially on the bandwagon we may not go to the moon, but we will definitely get to at least Maidstone. It’s a good bandwagon; LT tells beautiful stories about life and OP tells beautiful stories about his workouts 🙂
He said that last time and found his fit on the worst team for a paltry 8M. He may feel that, perhaps saw the potential that roster should have had, and knew Kruger. Still the money seems to sway things for him.
I’ve commented before Hall is an odd fit for the grinder Bruins. Still loose on the details and has a more western conference style, not exactly physical and in the corners.
Huge natural talent but almost the poster boy for our host’s comment about whether a player has X number of years experience or one year’s experience X number of times.
I blame the Oilers for this btw. They never made Hall learn how to play as well as his talent should have allowed him.
Some guys make the NHL with minimum big league talent and grind their skill into a career better than that. Some don’t.
I read somewhere. I forget now, that Hall wants to sign if they can resign Krejci, and there may be some issues with that. This is speculation of course, like most of this stuff.
Its always been anticipated/presumed that Hall likely signs after the expansion draft so the “delay” in itself doesn’t mean anything.
At the same time, there has definitely been a softening of the original reports that is was all but a lock he’d be back with the Bruins – recent reports have him potentially testing the market on and looking for a 3-4 years deal.
Of course, if we can/should belive any “reports”
Randle McMurphy
July 10, 2021 10:01 am
“There’s some rumblings that Hall will hit the open market and if he does Holland needs to pursue him with a furious urgency. He can push the river, play with 97 or 29 or even 93, and his zone exits and entries have shone like a diamond forever.”
While I agree that Hall could represent true value on the right contract
Why would the Bruins not be eager to get it done?
Is it the Bruins or Hall that don’t want to get it done?
dustrock
July 10, 2021 9:23 am
Always love the debate around prospect development, how can we tell whether it’s the organization who gets the praise or blame for it, or the player?
I think Draisaitl is a great example – draft year he looked like a poor man’s Thornton, I would have had only Ekblad over him.
Came in to the Oilers, didn’t knock it out of the park. Sent back down to juniors and dominates the WHL and Memorial Cup.
Comes back next year, has a slow start, gets sent down to Bakersfield, no complaining.
Comes back up against the Habs and the rest is history.
I also think it’s clear he’s hit a higher ceiling that anyone (other than he) predicted for him as a prospect.
Like McDavid, he seems relentless in trying to be the best in the world.
The organization was correct both times in sending him down, but I give Leon all the credit in the world for turning into a Hart winner.
You have to be a bit insane to be a star athlete, and I think some of the prospects just don’t have that level of commitment, even from juniors to the pros.
Hell, I got tired of playing club soccer by Grade 9 ha ha ha.
I would agree with pretty much all of this except one small point – it may not have been “complaining” but, IIRC, from accounts, Drai was pretty peeved about being sent down.
His chemistry with Hall upon call-up, for the rest of that year, gives me the giddies re: Hall looking for a 3-4 years contract and the his value likely depressed and the Oilers having the cap space for it (likely).
fistycuff
July 10, 2021 9:23 am
Several weeks later, I am still baffled by Chicago thinking they can get anything from the Oilers with regards to the negative value contract of Keith. (Cap hit). Toronto had to send away a first to get rid of a similar contract in order to get rid of Marleau cap hit. If Oilers want to send away Neal contract in a trade, some are saying that we would have to attach a first round pick. Why is it ok for the Oilers to pick up similar contract (cap hit) without getting a first back? Why would the Oilers throw in a player to this deal? (Jones or Sami etc). I am completely confused about all things contractually these days. Nothing about this possible deal makes any sense. At. All. Where is the first rounder that should be coming with that cap hit?
The rub may be that Keith is still able to play a bigger role than Marleau was at that point and is a much more esteemed player.
Also other GMs are still trying to punk the Oilers, really they are obligated to try given our history to save face with their bosses, I think Holland is trying to change that.
Also he’s being firm with agents as the team is now a place hockey loving players would want to play. The potential is massive with this core, I’m sure others see it.
Which could also be a problem for Holland in the trade market. Nobody will want to give him a key piece only to be hammered by the Oilers later.
It may be at this point UFAs are the way until the system is filling needs, it’s not far off. Then when he has to move players for cap reasons he could focus on good prospects or picks as the return when the roster is pretty much set.
I see don’t see a talented core and potential holding us back from winning trades. At least, not with a strong GM.
Tampa Bay regularly wins trades. Chicago did well, LA made some nice moves. Denver consistently comes out on top of transactions. Pittsburgh seems to do okay.
The stuff we’re hearing in the media is mostly what Chicago wants or thinks he’s worth. They can negotiate for whatever they want but that doesn’t mean it’s the market value of the player. Be interesting for more insight on what the Oilers side is offering because I agree as a cap dump we shouldn’t be sending anything of value back and should be getting a sweetener coming our way.
100% bang on! Just wait until the deal is consummated. MSM and the “smart” people on this blog will ramp up the spin about it being a “fair” deal. There will be talk of Kenny being a grinder for not getting completely spanked, as if it were some great accomplishment. Remember to save this post for reference?
Triple H. Hall, Hamilton, Haula. That would be a decent off-season. Keith if there is enough retained or going back and if they don’t give up anything more than Caleb Jones.
I was playing around with CF this AM. You can fit in a lot of high end UFA if Holland has the juice to get rid of salary (Neal, Koski, Kassian maybe, Turris if they don’t want to put him back on the buses). Not exactly an Oiler MO up to now. Certainly possible.
I’d avoid a long term deal at LD as the system is going to take care of that soon. RD only has Bouch as a high end talent, there is room there for a few years as Bouch becomes a solid rounded player IMO.
I’m not a fan of buyouts. GM that are active with their rosters use draft currency and know who is interested in a certain type, like Kassian. The key is to keep churning and get some picks back.
Pretty aggressive, you have to be right or it could be bad.
Nurse + Forbort + Jones = $7.95M (approx)
replace
Nurse + Russell + Kulikov = $10.75M
difference: -$2.8M
So the defense got cheaper by about $1.5M and improved. Of course, there’s still 2 very good prospects to fit it on ELC’s in the future too, so it’s not like this is a short term solution.
Haula won’t cost more than $2M and if Hall comes in at $6.5-ish that’s totally workable with the current cap situation.
commonfan29
July 10, 2021 8:57 am
Reading all the Keith coverage every day makes me feel like I’m Marge and the Oilers are Homer:
Marge (to Homer): So you want to go on tour with a traveling freak show.
Homer: I don’t think I have a choice, Marge.
Marge: Of course you have a choice.
Homer: How do you figure?Marge: You don’t have to join a freak show just because the opportunity came along.
Homer: You know, Marge, in some ways, you and I are very different people.
I follow Nationals for baseball, 76ers for basketball, Oilers for hockey and Eagles for football. But I read as much as I can from the national hockey guys, really enjoy Mirtle in Toronto, all of the Bruins guys, LAK and others.
.
Woodguy
@Woodguy55
·
18h
This important.
The Keith to EDM deal is ripe for an intermediary to hold cap due to the low Actual $.
If a 3rd party holds half the cap it’s $1.05MM this year and $750K next year.
What is $1.8MM worth? A 2nd? 3rd? 4th?
This is something that myself and others on here have been advocating for and it makes a ton of sense as the only way to get this done given neither team wants the full cap hit.
And the low cash means you can get a non cap team to consider it for the right premium.
There were only 5 teams $5M or more below the cap last season. There aren’t many non-cap teams.
Leavins Nine Things is always worth a read. This week’s #1 and #2 on Keith will be of particular interest.
Also a Hall mention. 😉
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/the-edmonton-oilers-pursuit-of-duncan-keith-comes-down-to-the-wire-9-things
Interesting when he’s talking Jones vs Keith that he is looking at on-ice results in the here and now as the only comparator. He’s not recognizing that age, club control, salary and progression/regression of career, etc are what the fans are more concerned about if those are the two pieces in a trade. Looking at it over the next two years only, I can get the argument that Keith may be a better fit than Jones on the second pair, but even that is far from a given. Even if he is, the marginal difference wouldn’t be worth an extra $4.5 million or so in cap. Jones for Keith at half his salary and you can start to see some sense in it for the short term.
One thing I can see happening is Holland offering a one year show me deal to Tatar and him taking it.
Yes
Wonder how long Holland will continue this stare down with Chicago before pulling the trigger on the Neal buyout
To the very end.
Till after the Kraken dispersal draft
No points in buying out Neal until after the expansion draft – buyout window goes through July 27. I am still fantasizing about a 2nd buyout window but don’t see it happening.
I also don’t think its certain the Neal gets bought out.
Even with his Covid-ravaged crap year, he did have 1.44 P/60 and he has 24 goals in his last 82 games……
Huh.
I knew he had a half decent P/60 this year, but when you put it that way (24G/82GP) it seems somewhat plausible he might not get bought out.
Though this is essentially the opposite view as Kassian has shown nothing at all since 2019 (since Neal hasn’t either).
I dunno. Buyout this season vs next: costs $3.8M more this season but saves $1.9M in 24-25. Holland sounded 95% sure he was buying someone out this summer, he must have been talking about Neal, right?
With Chaisson gone they need a in front net presence on the PP1
Jesse can be the net front on PP1.
There is also likely to be another top6 acquisition and that player may factor in to the PP.
In what fucked up alternate universe is 97, Drai, and Nuge not the best centre depth in history? It’s truely in the water. Makes no sense. Because Oilers.
When you insist on deploying them as wingers ?♂️
So do we play them down the middle and go and get Glendening or Ryan to take DZ FOs? Glendening or Ryan could play wing? With McLeod?
My true fandom died when Hall was traded. Crazy I know; being a fan since late 70’s and with Drai and 97 on the team and all. But something just left…I actually went to one of those community rinks to watch Hall after he was drafted during summer camp – I DO NOT waste time on that type of thing. But I did for Hall (I have no idea why but I did). I even listened to most of the AHL games on a radio app during that lockout to follow Hall. When he was injured in year one (I think) I saw it in a bar before an ESO show and was devastated so much so that it runined my night – ludicrous. If we get Hall back I will be off the wall excited. Don’t care about contract; don’t care about risk; age; term; whatever. If we win the cup with Taylor Hall it would be an absolute explosion of epic proportions for me. Also, got tickets to Deafheaven in Van for March 21, 2022.
The thought of Hall winning a cup here is beyond excitement for me. Seeing Deafheaven live would be a close second, I hope it’s at the Commodore!
Rickshaw Theatre.
I’ll reluctantly climb on the Bring Back Hall train if they say to hells bells with it and bring back Yakupov.
I stopped being a fan for a few years when they traded Semenko. Since then, no player that’s been with the team has been untouchable to me.
Sather traded all the vets so they could get finally get one last contract that paid as appreciation for being good soldiers. Sather was the best GM the game has ever seen.
Yakupov at the league minimum would be one of the best moves they could make.
The man can score at the NHL level and can play with McDavid. Don’t let Eakins, McLellan and a goddamn rando linesman win in the end!
It seems like Taylor has always felt he has unfinished business in YEG. Just a sense from reporting. If a player of that caliber is available for nothing but money and wants to be in Edmonton… get it done!
Is this the same Taylor Hall that Bieksa recently commented, “He tried that move 80 times tonight and it didn’t work. I guess the 81st time it did.”
So, Bieksa was mad that Taylor Hall used a move and got a goal? That’s like saying Oveckin takes 500 shots a season but only 50 go in.
I think it would be more accurate to say that a certain segment of Oilers fans have always felt that Hall has unfinished business in YEG.
LT, I’m curious. In your Sing Me Back Home article, awhile back now, you mentioned Blue Northern. Did you mean the band?
Also, haven’t heard a good new country song in a long time.
I can’t seem to find the reference, but it’s possible. I saw them a couple of times (when Billy Cowsill was in the band) and had their records. I Can’t Make No Sense is a great song.
As for good “new country” music, I’ve been listening to Lucinda Williams, Drive-By Truckers and Jason Isbell lately. I don’t think that’s new, but I like it.
Cool! That is a great song. I also really liked Blue You and Too Late to Turn Back although the entire album is a good listen. I remember having the cassette and most likely “donating” it at a house party, lol. I remember the local radio station in my small hometown had the blue record, a four song EP (it was literally blue!). They were quite popular in my area.
Later on, the hometown recreation committee brought in the Cowsill-led Blue Shadows for a concert. Backstage, one of the local musicians (opening act band) was strumming a guitar and asked Billy if he remembers his Blue Northern days and sang Blue You, a song Cowsill co-wrote. He vaguely remembered. Then he sang Vagabond, that one he remembered (he also co-wrote that one I think) and ended up singing it that night.
I’m trying to kick start my new profession…. aggregator of NHL news.
Here is todays update:
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.
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That is all.
Incoming Driedger Keith Connolly and ? Outgoing Jones Bear and Mikko.
Why would we downgrade the defense?
Were 1-7 in the playoffs the last 2 years can’t win with soft D in the real season.
Is Bear softer than Bouchard?
Ryan Smyth aside, what other past Oilers came back for a 2nd tour of duty that was worth the bang for the buck?
and please don’t say Kent Nilsson ‘94/95… those 6 games cratered my pool that year! Damn you Magic Man!!!
Reijo Ruotsalainen
Comrie
Andrew Cogliano
Cogs was a burner, should never have been traded in my opinion. But unless I’ve bonked my melon one to many times(I have) I don’t recall him doing a 2nd stint. Am I out to lunch LT?
No, I was implying a return. 🙂
Well. He is UFA
Nice ?? would you slot him on the 3rd line with McLeod? Be a speedy pair to create chaos with Archibald.
Cogs would be 12-14F, not a 3rd liner (in my opinion).
?
Gagne
r
Ron Low
The alumni from the 1st Heritage Classic!
Brandon Davidson.
And then Davidson again
Glenn Anderson came back for a few games in “96. He lived on the same floor as me in my condo building.
Steve MacIntyre lol
?? ??
Marty Reasoner
No mention of the ghost of Kevin Lowe? Who still haunts by the way.
Rem Murray needed to do very little to cover the cost of being reacquired.
Agreed without a quality 3C and some kind of faceoff RC, and a back up G everyone trust, no amount of wingers will push them over.
They aren’t strong enough down the middle, yet.
McDavid, Drai, and Nuge – not strong enough down the middle. Does this not sound fucked up to anyone but me?
Now that Nuggie has his papers, it’s the easiest thing ever.
Get two right shot faceoff guys to play wing bottom 6.
An LD a goalie, shed some dead cap.
1 summer to contender.
McDavid, Drai, and Nuge – not strong enough down the middle. Does this not sound fucked up to anyone but me?
Defense and goal are also ‘down the middle’. And Nuge generally plays wing now, as you surely know.
Oilers better retire Kevin Lowe’s number before Hall comes back and reclaims it
If Holland can get Hall at something under 6, say 5.8 for around 4 or 5 years Edmonton would have 4 of their top six locked up for a few seasons with JP KY in the mix and whichever prospects make it. This would be
the closest tobalance up front for first time since the cup run. We know Hall can play with nuge and drai as his centers already too.Well I still think we are a year out from real contention but Holland could get a real good head start if he addresses most of 1LW, 3C, 2LD, 1G
I tend to agree but there are elements (goaltending) that might be more attractive to address this year due to a larger pool of available talent.
Man the goalies went fast last year.
Surprised me.
We really do have an above average foundation in place.
We are just entering “the spending years”
I think we will be adding this summer, next year, and the year after that.
I really believe that this is going to be an enjoyable ride for Oilers fans for the next 6 or 7 seasons.
If God willin and the creek don’t rise.
Men plan…God laughs.
If you want to see God smile tell him your plans!
Watching a lot of Pettersson, Hughes and the Canucks, eh?
Ken Holland is just a nickname. His formal name is Kenneth Netherlands.
Here’s a citizenship question ( no help from the locals please)
What kind of potato chips does he eat?
Lays.
wry smile
Hey LT. How’s the project coming along? Near completion? Going public soon?
It’s a process. Nothing to report yet.
It’s all good. Hope you’re enjoying it. And thanks for keeping the lights on in here.
Lowetide community token on a blockchain Book it! Plus, Lowetide NFT’s…the whole shebang.
LTcoin.
An address in the metaverse to hangout during games
Elliott Friedman
“In goal, it sounds like the Oilers are juggling multiple balls, from Mike Smith to someone younger.”
So that rules out everyone older than Mike Smith
Are we still doing phrasing?
No idea what your talking about 😉
and this is Canada ….. It’s 5 times 5…. 🙂
Pip pip, cheerio, gov’na! 🙂
Well.. Ryan Miller retired.. so no Craig Anderson?
Test
Five by five.
Did I pass?
So much angst and gnashing of teeth towards Holland and management lately and the silliness hasn’t even happened yet ? starting to think 6 Rings & Chia are posting multiple times here a day.
If Taylor Hall wants to win a Cup, and is willing to take a hometown discount 3 x$5m , this town would grant him “favoured son” status.
Otherwise, I’d prefer to pay $7m to see one year of Taylor Hall on the Edmonton Oilers and then go from there.
Arizona Coyotes gave up:
Nick Merkley · Nathan Schnarr · Kevin Bahl
2020 conditional 1st round pick* (ARI – #18 – Dawson Mercer)
2021 conditional 3rd round pick** (ARI – #75)
For one year of Taylor Hall. (Dec Trade)
It was a failed experiment.
What the Coyotes decided to do has nothing to do with Hall, the failed experiment was on the Yotes.
The Yotes did absolutely nothing to lure Hall to sign anything, so he left because of their inability to properly run a franchise.
Tying the failures of the Coyotes to Hall’s contract this off season is one hell of a adventure travelled, the man had 14pts in 16 regular season games for the Bruins then followed it up with 9 pts in 11 playoff games for the Bruins. And he’s going to sign some low-end deal due to the failures of the Coyotes? I need to put down the weed.
Hall had 5 points in 11 playoff games, not 9 – big difference.
Hall was:
1) mediocre in 2019/20 for the Yotes
2) poor in 2021 for the Sabres
3) quite good in 2021 for the Bruins in the regular season
4) disappointing for the Bruins in the playoffs.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m excited to sign him for 3-4 years but at $6M or under – he is turning 30 and he hasn’t had a plus season since 2017/18 (2018/19 was only 30 or so games) and he had a few “meh” seasons prior that MVP year.
Stanley: “hey Kenny, we want Bear and McLeod for Keith”
Kenny: “Just one second Stanley. Hey boys, should I throw in Jones too? I remember in Detroit when…*still rambling 5 minutes later* when we made some good trades, we made some really good trades. It’s all about good trades and building, yeah building. I just want you to know Stanley that I’m a still a grinder like I was in Detroit”.
Stanley: “We know Kenny, we know” *winks to his management team*
Everything Holland does or doesn’t do is wrong by your posts. My question is why? Holland had been a breath of fresh air since taking over as GM. Gets blamed for a couple of moves that due flat cap and COVID were not ideal but he had no way of knowing the future. If anyone is honest he has been above average and far better than his predecessors. His hands were tied early by cap restraints. Under his leadership many aspects of the organization have improved including drafting, development and the NHL coaching. He is a man, were you expecting miracles? In my opinion the man has earned far more respect than you seem willing to give him. If the fan base expects quality in management they have to at least give the man a legitimate chance to succeed?
Kenny? Is that you?
Yeah it’s a pretty extreme narrative given the evidence.
How much toilet paper does your family consume in a month? I would like to invite you over for coffee and help you get started working for yourself, and on the road to financial independence?
haha I’m game
This – he’s been the best Oilers GM so far of the past 15 years easily. He’s not the best GM in the league but probably in the top half. As an Oiler fan that’s a huge relief.
This is incredible. You’ve created a real fake narrative based on the narrative of talking heads. I think my head will explode.
#noaccountabilityfromthepeanutgallery
Wait for it?
You just outDSFed DSF. Congratulations!!
Finally! Fish in a barrel?
Serious question: did Kenny make any great trades in Detriot during the cap era? I looked at his trade history and it was very underwhelming.
He didn’t need to, between his drafting and the no cap Era.
Before becoming a general manager, Holland spent seven years as the directer of amateur scouting and three years as the assistant general manager for the Red Wings. As a scout, he secured the drafting of players like Nicklas Lidstrom, Sergei Fedorov, Vladimir Konstantinov, Darren McCarty, and Chris Osgood.
In 1997, Holland was promoted to general manager. Under his management, the team won four Presidents’ Trophies (2002, 2004, 2006, and 2008), ten division championships, five conference titles, and reached 100 regular-season points at a league-high 13 times in 17 seasons. No other team in NHL history has reached more than ten 100-point seasons.
I’m not sure but he clearly won some trades.
Also, the first 7 of those seasons were pre-cap. The last 10 were post-cap. Lots of continued success after the cap was introduced.
Woodguy’s latest.
That is a very bad trade. (Obviously Woodguy is guessing what will happen, not what he thinks should happen)
But extremely predictable.
#kennysnotagrinder
This is awful. Keith’s cap hit isnt going to be any better in one year
The potential downside, for those that think he’s done, isn’t that bad.
He will be better than Kulikov next season who has been mentioned frequently as a cheaper option.
If he’s not worth 4.8 the season after the buyout isn’t that bad.
The potential upside is worth that risk to me. For a player that is going anyway and one that can’t play.
I also don’t think Oleksiak would be better, on the Oilers. Him with Larsson is not a great pair because of mobility issues. He is also getting his boat floated big time in Dallas.
He will be 29 and will need term, won’t be much cheaper, will be less productive than Keith, isn’t a good fit strategically with the leftorium, and he’s not coming here anyway.
I keep reading this but I believe the numbers show that he does just fine without Miro H…. don’t they?
Yeah. Year two not accounted for.
This would be a bad trade but not sure Woodguy has this one surrounded.
If you made that trade and someone took on an additional $2 million cap, then it gets interesting as a trade. I’m on record as keeping Jones, but that’s problematic because he did in fact struggle. Keith is also problematic for other reasons, but if the coach is more comfortable with a veteran, and Keith’s cap hit is $2 million at the cost of Caleb Jones and offloading Turris, I think you could live with that.
More comfortable with veterans… like Taylor Freakin Hall 🙂
Stanley Cups often have incredible side stories attached to them.
Taylor Hall returning to Edmonton… Cup gets handed from Assistant Captain Adam Larsson to the veteran Taylor Hall….
That story just kind of writes itself.
I agree with that as well. Just think that at the cap hit Woodguy laid out it’s a poor deal. And I’m not quite sure I parse the tea leaves with the cap hit being as high as he’s thinking although as always Darcy’s logic is sound.
I don’t do that trade but Id be ok if the cap retention was 50% or offloading Kassian instead of Turris. That said I haven’t seen a lot of Keith over the past few years, am hoping with a lesser workload he’ll be more effective.
So I know we lost the Adam Larsson for Hall swap. It obviously made us the butt of the joke for quite a long time. If I have to hear “the trade is one-for-one” one more time, so help me.
But Adam Larsson has now played 115 more games for the Oilers than Hall played for the Devils. If Larsson resigns and provides us with a couple more good years, and we bring Hall back into the fold, that trade starts looking a lot better for the Oil.
We would have been better with Hall on our team the last few years, but not so good we would have an extra cup right now imo.
I think Larsson lifting the cup as an Oiler would finally put that joke to rest. Larsson then handing the cup to Hall would be the icing on the cake. Not that Holland should make decisions based on getting other people to stop laughing at us, just sayin’.
I’m a big believer in Larsson, his shutdown ability and work against elite competition was vital for this team. He played big minutes and got superior results against elites relative to other Oilers defensemen in every season but 2018-19. If they sign him $4 million times four I’ll be pleased. http://www.puckiq.com/players/8476457?player=8476457&season=all&tier=Elite&group_by=player_season_team
Larsson needs to take a haircut, not a trim. 3 x 3.
That’s not going to happen with an expansion team dumping $80 million into the free-agent pool.
Another team is welcome to have him at that price. He doesn’t want to move. Play hardball.
Holland did play hardball last year in some negations and ended up with nothing. (I exclude Turris)
I fully support Holland holding the line, he just may have to bend a little to land players in Edmonton. In regards to Larson, he must work with a player who wants to be here, not drive him off.
See all the players walking away from Columbus.
Who cares what Colunbus is doing? But I did hear the players loved the coach?
Holland played hardball last year and ended up with nothing? I must have missed that?
I’ll take Larsson at $4 million times four.
He’s all yours.
What if Holland goes “Nuge” on Larsson. Would 3×5 be a fair contract?
I have thought similar but I think it would take 6 years. 4×4 gets him $16 M. 5×3 is only $15 M.
I don’t think a contract in the 5-6 year range makes sense for Larsson.
After 4 years, he’ll be 33 and probably in line for another contract and potentially a decent one- at 35, well, I see more regression at 35 than 33.
I think you mean it doesn’t make sense for the team – just as it didn’t make sense for the team when negotiating with Nuge and they went 8 years in order to get the lower cap hit.
No, I meant what I wrote.
I think Larsson would want 3-4 years or 8.
A 5-6 year contract expires when he’s 35 or so and that may be it.
If he signs a 3-4 year contract, he’s likely to get another one with a bit of term.
So by your standards loyalty should be punished. LOTS OF CLASS all of it of the LOW variety. Doesn’t say nice things about you!
Yes. Larsson is being punished at 3 million per. That poor guy ?
Gonna run out of that 80 mil quick if they start overpaying everyone
I don’t consider $4M for Larsson overpaying for his prime years.
Yes, I know the numbers show offence died when he was on the ice but, at the same time, being able to shut down tough opposition, like he did, with a revolving door or unproven LD as his partner, with 84% non-McDavid minutes, plus PK, plus core leadership, plus “tough to play against”, etc……….. he’s worth $4M.
Prime years?
we had his prime years, this player type doesn’t age well in their 30s
See Vlasic pickles
Vlasic is 34 and his play dropped off around 31-32. Larsson will be 29 early in the season. A 3 year deal would be ideal but 4 isn’t a killer given his age. You’re right they don’t age well going into their 30s but you’re not signing him to an 8 year deal at $7 million per like Wilson did with Vlasic either. Agree with others that $4 million is too high though. On a 4 year deal it should be under $3.5 and on a 3 year deal maybe $3.5 is fair value.
He’s not in his 30s, he’s 28 – will turn 29 mid-season.
I consider tough defensive d-men to be in their prime from apx 27-32.
Vlasic may have been the top defensive d-man i the league between 28 and 31.
Exactly my point
the top dog fell off a cliff
what are you expecting for lesser dogs
He didn’t fall off a cliff until well in to his 30s.
Larsson will be 28 when his contract kicks in – probably 3 prime years left.
#intangibles
and #tangibles.
At LT’s cap of 4 million for his prime years this seems a fair contract!
You’ve had his prime years already!!
danger Cliff up ahead
I understand your thinking but D with more experience appear to get the benefit from refereeing. D also take longer to mature and are usually better through 28 thru 32. Experience seems to be a greater asset for D than it does for forwards.
The age 27-33 prime years for defensemen is dated and mostly useable for top level defensemen that can handle when they lose a step. When Larsson loses a step it’s going to be catastrophic
but if he takes the hard minutes off someone else’s shoulders for next couple of years I’ll be ok with his overpayment
I dont agree for this type of d-men.
We are not looking at him being prime and or top four for his term. He holds extreme value for being the steady hand veteran to partner our left side D of Samorukov and Broberg. Value comes in more than one way.?
4 million for a 3rd pairing d-man sounds smart.
And for my third post……
Who is in favour of trading the first rounder this year?
Im thinking this is the time. We have already discussed this is a summer of opportunity. How many teams need to shed some cap and/ or have a good roster player they cannot protect?
First rounder, even at 19 is at extreme value this year.
Targets? I don’t know right now. Jost?
So hoping we get anotherYamomoto level talent in 2-3 years vs getting a known NHL player cost controlled for 2-3 years.
Do uou trade the first rounder or first plus? Or take the pick?
I think we’re in the window now, yes. A package that includes the first-round pick would be wise if the return will be productive and around for the next four seasons.
I’m with you. Time to get going. I am willing to move it plus for Reinhart but have mentioned here that Buffalo might be willing to take our 2022 first instead since they already have 7 draft picks in the top 100 this year.
You have to think Buffalo will also get multiple picks in the Eichel trade.
Yup. I am fine with using this year’s 1st round pick for the right player but with Buffalo they might see next year’s first as working even better for them.
Reinhart with an agreed extension is still my first choice for a ‘name’, top six trade this off season.
To be honest, you would likely need to send both 1st round picks to Buffalo unless you’re including some significant prospects with the pick.
There are other teams with much higher 1st round picks and the prospect pool to get this done.
With both Reinhart and Eichel gone, the Sabres will be desperately seeking centres.
LAK have 8 of them.
Leave my dream alone.
I’m not so sure Lias Andersson and Akil Thomas are moving the needle.
Akil Thomas scored 26 points in 40 AHL games.
He just turned 19.
He’s a RH centre.
Alex Turcotte and Tyler Madden are also blue chip centre prospects.
How many prospect centres could the Oilers offer up in a trade for Reinhart?
I know you know the answer is zero.
Citing “they have 8 centers”, when that includes depth prospects than have been meandering like Lias Andersson is simply dishonest or misleading.
Tyler Madden is turning 22 at the beginning of this season and was poor in the AHL as a 21 year old – how that is bluechip when one professes good players show themselves early is, well, not possible. Turcotte is indeed a nice prospect – not close to the NHL based on early pro results.
If your attention is on the possible outcome for other teams you will never win a cup! To win a championship you have to focus on your path and give a damn about what others are doing. To win you can not see someone else as the winner! Never get caught in paralysis by analysis! There is only one winner!
Do you read the instructions when you buy things at IKEA?
Do you have parts left over?
I am in the middle of building my 6th IKEA kitchen at the moment. They are designed to have leftover parts. 😉
I agree depending on the plus. My concern is our lack of prospects and or draft choices that would extremely shorten and or negate our winning a cup. Close doesn’t make it with our core just entering their prime! We are not at the all in man the torpedoes stage!
If not now, when?
It’s time to fix 2 of the holes with 3-4 year solutions. Ken has the cap space and assets to do that. That moves the dial.
Vancouver got a top 6 power forward entering the prime of his career signing for four years at a reasonable number, derisked with production in two organizations, for a 1st round pick.
That was JT Miller.
Jost is ridiculously inadequate. One can pick up forwards at various price points and skillsets in UFA to obviate the need to trade the 1st round pick.
Sam Girard or Mikhael Sergachev are the only two players that I have identified so far where trading the 1st round draft pick would be acceptable.
John Gibson might be acceptable, but why not just sign Driedger and draft Cossa. Then one has a full pipeline of goaltenders separated appropriately by stage of career.
i.e. Smith, Driedger, Skinner/Konovalev, Rodrique, Cossa A plethora of bets with diverse expiry rather than pushing all in on one bet on Gibson.
i think we agreed there are several ways to build a team. Free agent signings have always been “okay” at best but rarely deliver huge value.
Oilers don’t have a lot of trade assets. The first is in demand.
matbe you could widen your list of targets? The players you suggest would be home runs, I wonder if there are some lesser known talents to be plucked.
Not for a first round pick. Quality with control or keep it.
2 points in five games on the way out, -9, got owned physically at 170 lb.
5 years left at 5M, 3 with complete movement protection.
I think I can wait a year or two for far better overall LD.
One buys when there is blood on the streets.
Yes! But don’t buy that player when it’s their blood in the streets.
/ Under our feet Babe, the grass is growing’ / It’s time to move on, it’s time to get goin’.
Hall is talked about as an informed hockey player. Given a short Covid season his options were limited and contending teams had no room.
Grabbing extra dollars (8m) for 56 games and controlling your deadline was a smart move.
Shortened season over, he’s going to try again.
Adding Hall though, as I was saying, still needs supplemented by adding those other elements.
Hall signed in Buffalo because of Eichel, and Eichel went and hurt himself training before the two even hit the ice together in training camp.
So Eichel went from his breakout year as the elite centre, right there in the conversation with the 3rd tier (Matthews,Barkov, Schieffle) to a ghost.
Sabres and Eichel May have been the best choice of the leftovers who had cap space. Halls 1 year contract says he was not thinking a Buffalo long term. It was a good bet for a Covid season of few choices.
I still see Hall re-signing with Boston. He wants a winner and Boston is one.
They’re aging though. I’m a Bruins fan and would guess they won’t make it back to another final with this group.
Getting Taylor Hall would be a huge skill boost to the line up. However, this changes everything. He’s Not the perfect fit as a battler to compliment the other skill. He’s Not going to go stand in front of the net while the others play keep a way.
Both Yamamoto and JP got stuck in this net front role last year. JP succeeded because he’s a horse, but it underutilizes his skill, Yamo was game but took a beating.
So slamming Hall into two top lines would not be the answer in my opinion.
What Hall allows is to balance out the entire roster.
Hall – Mcdavid
Drai – Yamo
Nuge – JP
Now you can add those less expensive battlers, puck retrievers and give and go experts to each line. Bring in size to support skill.
Add Armia and Killorn or Goodrow, Benson, Holloway. Maybe Kassian comes back with the crowds in seats.
Now look at how good that line up can be.
McDavid – Reinhart 😉
So we play Hall with McDavid because this is a weakness of McDavid’s? 😉
I prefer putting complementary skills together rather than duplicating them.
None of those 3 pairings has a pure shooter to take advantage of 3 excellent passers – Hall isn’t really that.
Your last statement is my point. Mixing Hall into the top 6 duplicates skills without providing balance. BUT if Hall comes onto the roster he allows huge flexibility to round out the entire roster.
debate who plays with who, doesn’t matter.
Hall and Draisatl were very good together previously.
Kassian needs a spark if we’re keeping him. Another agitator in the lineup. Nick Ritchie?
Yup the Nuge Hall Drai line was ?
Ritchie Nuge Kassian
Weirdest line ever.
Ethan Bear is a very good RD. If he is able to meet his potential, is that as a top-pairing complement to Nurse? Or 2nd pairing? Is Bear’s ability to meet his potential (relative position) affected by Bouchard’s trajectory?
Nurse – Bear (or Barrie)
xxx (Keith) – (Larsson or Barrie) or Bear
Jones – Bouchard
Russell
With Bear’s RFA status still a year away and the recent news that Bear wouldn’t be included in a Keith trade- I think the answer becomes pretty clear.
Nurse – Bear
(Keith) – (Larsson or Barrie)
Jones – Bouchard
Larsson or Barrie?
If you look at the size and weight of the top six defenders on the final 4 teams, Bear is too small. I agree he is a good defenseman on a good contract and is a valuable regular season defender. That is why we should pursue D Hamilton hard. If we get a defenseman like that, we can trade Bear for quality back
So:
Nurse – (Hamilton or Size)
(Keith) – (Larsson or Hamilton)
Jones (or xxx) – Bouchard
with Bear as a trade asset.
Yes That is exactly what i would hope to see. Would Bear get us Nolan Patrick?
We could run a 3rd line of Benson Patrick Yamo
A top 4 def of Nurse, Hamilton, Larsson Keith
That sounds like an awful plan
Hamilton/Larsson is a massive upgrade on Bear/Larsson.
I, in no way, want to trade Bear, however, if Hamilton was willing to sign, for sure, I would trade Bear for an upgrade at forward – would probably look somewhere different than Patrick but the Bear to Hamilton upgrade is massive.
Yes, Hamilton is better than Bear. But Hamilton will also get around $6.5m more than Bear on his next deal.
Ethan Bear’s value is much higher than a reclamation project that missed all of 2019-20 and played awful in 2020-21
A couple trade targets for key position holes (as not everything can be solved in free agency):
Tyler Bertuzzi – younger and more productive than Hyman (playing with lesser linemates) – RFA – $3.5M qualifying offer – will get a raise – need to diligence that back!
Mattias Elkholm – if Klefbom is not coming back this year. One year left at $3.75M – value contract for sure but risk is him being a one-year rental. Presumably the Preds would want forward skill which is not what the Oilers have in abundance.
Ekholm would definitely be interesting.
On Bertuzzi/Hyman are you adjusting production based on linemates? Or giving Hyman zero slack on production due to injury?
You’ve done the latter before, but in this case (if that’s why you’re saying Bertuzzi is more productive) you’d be incorrect.
Last 3 seasons Hyman has scored 165-57-54-111. 0.67 P/GP.
He missed quite a bit of time the past 2 seasons but scored at a 82-31-30-61 pace in the last 2.
Bertuzzi missed even more time with the back injury (mainly) and scored 153-47-55-102, 0.67 P/GP over 3 seasons.
They scored at identical rates, Hyman with a few more goals, and was actually healthier then Bertuzzi.
Bertuzzi has had pretty good linemates too (about 60% of his time with Larkin), though not to the same extent as Hyman.
Bertuzzi certainly is younger, and should be cheaper, though it’s unclear exactly how much.
Can tell you that the biggest reason Ekholm was not traded (besides Nashville going on a run) was that Poile was asking for a lot – top prospects and top pick and Philly refused to budge.
If Nashville is going to move any d-man this summer, Ellis might be the one.
KH needs to draw a line in the sand. I would just go public and say 60% retain is the starter. If you want Jones then we need a 2nd rounder in return. The end result is 50% retained and a 3rd rounder. Bowman has no leverage and Keith needs to be done a good solid.
That would just be unprofessional. The best thing to do is say, “we’ve offered what we’re prepared to offer”, and walk. What is Chicago going to do?
It is unprofessional. But somehow things leak out like asking for Bear and/or Mcleod. A leak from our side may be all is needed to pressure Keith or Bowman to realize CAP space is the most important asset here and not Keith.
Max retention is 50%, and the rest is just bad form.
Unless they use a 3rd team – CHI retains 50% and then team B retains 50% of the remaining 50% – leaves 25% for Team C.
Yeah amazing how often lately we’ve been seeing things like 3/4 retention proposals.
If the speculation that Hall is looking for 3-4 years of term is true then, 100%, that should be a prime target for the Oilers. If the Oilers can get Hall for 3-4 years at under $6M per season, that would be excellent.
Is under $6M for that term realistic? Maybe, maybe not. I still think his “name value” has been greater than “on ice value” and he may be able to get more but recent production doesn’t warrant more.
If Hall is looking for security (3-4 years) and winning, as he has indicated, then the Oilers at under $6M might make sense for him. Maybe its taking a bit less then he could get elsewhere (maybe not though) but it would be contract terms that work for the player and helps the team win – asking for more makes the team worse.
Imagine Hall and Nuge as the team’s 3rd and 4th best forwards (give or take a Puljujarvi)? They were once 1-2 and now would be 3-5.
I don’t think he’ll be under $6M with a 3 or 4 year term. Probably around $7M.
I’ll be $7 million times seven or something like that, I imagine.
Well, if he’s $7M X 7 then I am not interested.
That’s the type of contract that I have always been adverse to.
My interest relates to the “speculation”/”accounts” that he’s looking for 3-4 years and from my personal thought that, given recent years’ performance, the price should be apx $6M AAV (or even less).
I’d do that. Would you?
Yes.
I agree he will definitely command more money. He got 8 mil last year. 7-8mil on a 3-4 year term is probable. I would prefer Tarasenko with 1-2 mil retained. That would be a 5.5-6.5 cap hit, plus he is a proven winner. Though IF we could get Hall, it would cost us no assets, I would rather give up some assets to get Tarasenko. And I am a Hall fan
7M x 4 years for Hall would be unreal.
He turns 30 a month in to the season and hasn’t produced as a $7M player in either of the last two seasons (he did the season before but only for 30 something games due to injury).
He may get it but he’s not a $7M player right now.
Hall isn’t a goal scorer which is what is needed. Not the best use of 7M. Tara might be less in the end.
Without diving too deep into it, my outer marker offer to Hall would be around 7×7. My outer marker for Nuge was 6×6 for context. If it’s 3 or 4 years, I’d go up to 8 million. Does he get more than 8 million in this environment? Good chance he’d come in below that and the Oilers could make an aggressive offer.
And while we’re at it, lets trade for Eberle, would be so sweet to win a cup with all those guys involved.
I’m not sure how that type of AAV is justified – he hasn’t had a high-end season since his Hart (37 points in 33 games the next year but it was only 33 games).
He’s been well below a PPG in two seasons and two playoffs since.
I can see him getting more than $6M per but I don’t see how it reflects his value on the ice over the last few years.
Its kind of amazing that 16-20 (well, 19 but, arguably 20) on that list are all NHL players.
This proves that “no elite prospects” can help in the NHL if given time to mature and opportunity when they are ready.
Who are 16-20 on the current list of 20?
Berglund, Skinner, Berezkin, Niemelainen, Rasanen.
https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2185574
Dennis King pointed this out on twitter, in response to Elliote’s 32 thoughts and The NHL potentially cracking down on cross-checking:
Dennis King
@DKingBH
·
5h
If the NHL is really going to crack down on crosschecking, I would take at least 250K off Larsson’s next deal and if I was the Habs, I would start practicing the PK right now given Weber etc
—-
Yup. Tread real carefully on that Larsson contract. I’d wait and go after Hamilton, see if you can get him and Nurse for 14 million combined.
Agreed. Larsson is not the player management thinks he is.
This is what scares me about big bets, management makes a big bet and the league changes the rules and now we have dead cap. I’d almost prefer if there was a one year delay before introducing rule changes to make it more fair and give teams time to adjust.
Stuff like that would be thoroughly discussed in GM meetings, you’d think.
So Larsson’s only skill is cross checking?
Hall is a very very good hockey player. However, I do question his character, and character wins cups (see Patrick Maroon for a recent example).
I am not talking about silly rumours and hearsay. I’m talking about what was noticeable in his time in Edmonton, which included tantrums on the bench and a noticeable lack of sticking up for his teammates when things weren’t going his way. Many times I watched Hall skate away from scrums where his mates needed him.
It also worries me when a guy who lights up the score sheet starts bouncing around teams. There is only one common denominator there.
Fantastic player? No question. Next piece of the puzzle…? Not so sure.
The results on the ice matter and he’s reputedly liked by the core on the Oilers. Not sure without being in the room how anyone could really know about any of this. Being pissed on the bench isn’t a bad thing, shows he actually gives a shit about winning.
Totally agree. All the character stuff is pure speculation. Guys getting pissed on the bench, I have zero issue with, especially when they’re young.
Tantrums?
If Hall threw tantrums what do we clarify McDavid’s “expressions” when he’s “disappointed” in his teammates or others?
I haven’t observed McDavid leave his mates in scrums like I have with Hall. I have not seen McDavid bounce around to different teams as we all have with Hall.
OK – but i’m not sure what that has to do with these supposed tantrums……. Hall did nothing more than McDavid has.
I’m referring to direct observation. He is reputedly liked is not the same as I’ve been in the dressing room, or I know Connor and he does like him. It is unfounded.
I have observed him skating away from helping his teammates in a scrum. I have watched him bounce from one team to another. This is not speculation, it is observation.
I’ve never bought in to this narrative about Hall not sticking up for teammates and avoiding scrums – no more so than Nuge, Puljujarvi, McLeod, Kahun, Jones, Russell, etc.
What is a good place to find data on a players most common linemates?
Natural Stat Trick. Here are Connor McDavid’s five on five linemates in 2020-21. The drop downs allow you to change players and you can sort by clicking on category name.
http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20172018&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=std&rate=y&v=t&playerid=8478402
Roles are a weird thing with this team. It seems like a reasonable strategy to have them be clearly defined so that players can concentrate on their strengths in that role and build confidence. In my mind this relates both to position and a players relative spot in the line-up. I’m talking about “fit”.
-Hall as a player has many fine attributes. Would he fit with McDavid or Draisaitl? Draisaitl right?
-RNH as a player has many fine attributes. Does he fit with McDavid, Draisaitl or another line? If Hall plays with Leon then RNH would fit on the top line? or 3LW?
I think Nuge likes C better, I think he is better there, his style doesn’t fit wing to me.
Drai Connor Yama
Hall Nuge JP
Unless Kenny reads here and likes my idea of Yama and a low pick for Tarasenko and a second
Drai Connor JP
Hall Nuge Tarasenko
1.5M retained
RNH hasn’t shown any improvement in his face-off ability over the course of his career. I can’t imagine him playing C without a new-hire to cover for him on the dot.
He’s still not great, but he has improved quite a bit.
He only managed to win 45% once through 16-17.
Since then he’s been 48.8%, 45.1%, 50.7%. He only won 45.6% this past season but he wasn’t taking them regularly, which must be tougher.
Not ideal, but passable I’d say.
In reality how many times has he played center? You don’t get better at center playing wing! It is also not a skill you would necessarily practice.
Quoted for truth:
“I have never been more sure of anything in my life as a hockey fan. Get.Taylor. Freaking. Hall!”
Sorry, Truth is Bobby Orr.
I don’t think sorry means what you think it means.
If Hall landed with the team, I’d be tempted to run him with McDavid due to Nuge’s 5×5 last year. Can you image turning the puck over with McDavid, Hall, and Puljujarvi on the ice? Fast break bonanza
Overtime
Draisaitl McDavid Nurse
Hall RNH Bouchard
Overtime suddenly change away from 3v3?
ya …they are thinking of going with the added rover…six on six and goalies of course!…overtime till the cows come home!
Jim Matheson with a bunch of tidbits.
https://edmontonsun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/oilers-notes-its-duncan-keith-vs-vlad-tarasenko-on-the-edmonton-trade-front/wcm/a0b4d1f5-b5f5-4757-8580-a19557cbf71f/amp/
Which overpaid has-been should we target?
How about neither.
Nothing really there from Matty – only substantive info is the Oilers don’t want to qualify Khaira but want to bring him back at a lower price – Gregor provided that a week ago.
Other than that, it was Matty passively-aggressively mocking those that are more interested in Tarasenko than Keith because he’s been injured – I’m quite certain Matty has zero knowledge over anyone reading regarding Tarasenko’s actual health and how it may effect his play the next few years.
“I have never been more sure of anything in my life as a hockey fan. Get. Taylor. Freaking. Hall!”
YES. With LT and OP officially on the bandwagon we may not go to the moon, but we will definitely get to at least Maidstone. It’s a good bandwagon; LT tells beautiful stories about life and OP tells beautiful stories about his workouts 🙂
Haha?
If the Bruins pass on Hall, I think its just as likely that Hall ends up in Calgary or Toronto as in Edmonton.
It would be interesting to know if Oilers Mgt value Hall’s finesse over the harder edge playoff style of Coleman and Hyman.
Hall says he wants to win. Calgary is not that place..
truer words have never been spoken!…wonder how old marks mark feels now?…I have become a member of the rhinestone prairie chickens!!! what!!!
And then he signed with Buffalo! I am not sure that his trade from Edmonton has not somewhat jaded his values!
Exactly why one shouldn’t be surprised with something like
Gaudreau out…. Hall in.
I don’t think Toronto would aim for him. They already have 33m tied up in 3 forwards. Add Hall, that’s half the cap.
Unless they move Nylander. It seems he is always in the rumour mill.
They are rumored to be looking at him with Hyman and others on the way out.
The media has Toronto involved in every ‘name’ player in the league every off season, every TD, every FA week.
It is a law of nature. It cannot be undone.
At the end of the season Hall made it very clear that he wanted to stay with the Bruins.
So what happened?
Is it money or did one of them change their mind?
Could be both. Also their core players are all under 7M, maybe Taylor wants more cheese.
Remember the ‘its not about money, its about fit’ comments? I wonder if it was the NYI series that is giving Boston pause.
He said that last time and found his fit on the worst team for a paltry 8M. He may feel that, perhaps saw the potential that roster should have had, and knew Kruger. Still the money seems to sway things for him.
I’ve commented before Hall is an odd fit for the grinder Bruins. Still loose on the details and has a more western conference style, not exactly physical and in the corners.
I’ve been saying the same thing for years.
Huge natural talent but almost the poster boy for our host’s comment about whether a player has X number of years experience or one year’s experience X number of times.
I blame the Oilers for this btw. They never made Hall learn how to play as well as his talent should have allowed him.
Some guys make the NHL with minimum big league talent and grind their skill into a career better than that. Some don’t.
Renney wanted to, cost him his job apparently.
Pasternak, Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand, Coyle are all finesse players who fit in just fine with the Bruins.
The demarcation isn’t “grind”, its hard freakin work. Two-way hockey, defensively responsible, hard on the forecheck.
That’s what I meant, still if I read those words Hall isn’t the first skill guy that comes to mind.
Do we know it’s the Bruins that don’t want to get it done?
Blah I read that as you implying the Bruins didn’t want to. Could be either at this point.
Could it be an expansion draft protection issue?
Seems like it might be.
https://thehockeywriters.com/boston-bruins-difficult-nhl-expansion-draft/
Could well be. I expect those conversations have taken place across the league with various players.
Karma is a bitch!
I read somewhere. I forget now, that Hall wants to sign if they can resign Krejci, and there may be some issues with that. This is speculation of course, like most of this stuff.
Krejci says he doesn’t want to play anywhere else and may accept a cheap contract to return.
That would be my expectation. He and Rask want another shot at a cup run.
Its always been anticipated/presumed that Hall likely signs after the expansion draft so the “delay” in itself doesn’t mean anything.
At the same time, there has definitely been a softening of the original reports that is was all but a lock he’d be back with the Bruins – recent reports have him potentially testing the market on and looking for a 3-4 years deal.
Of course, if we can/should belive any “reports”
“There’s some rumblings that Hall will hit the open market and if he does Holland needs to pursue him with a furious urgency. He can push the river, play with 97 or 29 or even 93, and his zone exits and entries have shone like a diamond forever.”
While I agree that Hall could represent true value on the right contract
Why would the Bruins not be eager to get it done?
Is it the Bruins or Hall that don’t want to get it done?
Always love the debate around prospect development, how can we tell whether it’s the organization who gets the praise or blame for it, or the player?
I think Draisaitl is a great example – draft year he looked like a poor man’s Thornton, I would have had only Ekblad over him.
Came in to the Oilers, didn’t knock it out of the park. Sent back down to juniors and dominates the WHL and Memorial Cup.
Comes back next year, has a slow start, gets sent down to Bakersfield, no complaining.
Comes back up against the Habs and the rest is history.
I also think it’s clear he’s hit a higher ceiling that anyone (other than he) predicted for him as a prospect.
Like McDavid, he seems relentless in trying to be the best in the world.
The organization was correct both times in sending him down, but I give Leon all the credit in the world for turning into a Hart winner.
You have to be a bit insane to be a star athlete, and I think some of the prospects just don’t have that level of commitment, even from juniors to the pros.
Hell, I got tired of playing club soccer by Grade 9 ha ha ha.
Was at that game against the Habs and boy could you see glimpses of the dominant player Drai could be at that point.
I would agree with pretty much all of this except one small point – it may not have been “complaining” but, IIRC, from accounts, Drai was pretty peeved about being sent down.
His chemistry with Hall upon call-up, for the rest of that year, gives me the giddies re: Hall looking for a 3-4 years contract and the his value likely depressed and the Oilers having the cap space for it (likely).
Several weeks later, I am still baffled by Chicago thinking they can get anything from the Oilers with regards to the negative value contract of Keith. (Cap hit). Toronto had to send away a first to get rid of a similar contract in order to get rid of Marleau cap hit. If Oilers want to send away Neal contract in a trade, some are saying that we would have to attach a first round pick. Why is it ok for the Oilers to pick up similar contract (cap hit) without getting a first back? Why would the Oilers throw in a player to this deal? (Jones or Sami etc). I am completely confused about all things contractually these days. Nothing about this possible deal makes any sense. At. All. Where is the first rounder that should be coming with that cap hit?
That’s how I feel.
The rub may be that Keith is still able to play a bigger role than Marleau was at that point and is a much more esteemed player.
Also other GMs are still trying to punk the Oilers, really they are obligated to try given our history to save face with their bosses, I think Holland is trying to change that.
Also he’s being firm with agents as the team is now a place hockey loving players would want to play. The potential is massive with this core, I’m sure others see it.
Which could also be a problem for Holland in the trade market. Nobody will want to give him a key piece only to be hammered by the Oilers later.
It may be at this point UFAs are the way until the system is filling needs, it’s not far off. Then when he has to move players for cap reasons he could focus on good prospects or picks as the return when the roster is pretty much set.
I see don’t see a talented core and potential holding us back from winning trades. At least, not with a strong GM.
Tampa Bay regularly wins trades. Chicago did well, LA made some nice moves. Denver consistently comes out on top of transactions. Pittsburgh seems to do okay.
The stuff we’re hearing in the media is mostly what Chicago wants or thinks he’s worth. They can negotiate for whatever they want but that doesn’t mean it’s the market value of the player. Be interesting for more insight on what the Oilers side is offering because I agree as a cap dump we shouldn’t be sending anything of value back and should be getting a sweetener coming our way.
100% bang on! Just wait until the deal is consummated. MSM and the “smart” people on this blog will ramp up the spin about it being a “fair” deal. There will be talk of Kenny being a grinder for not getting completely spanked, as if it were some great accomplishment. Remember to save this post for reference?
What did Holland do to you? Your anger against him is palatable and unwarranted unless you can explain!
It’s as PALPABLE as your love for him ?
Triple H. Hall, Hamilton, Haula. That would be a decent off-season. Keith if there is enough retained or going back and if they don’t give up anything more than Caleb Jones.
I was playing around with CF this AM. You can fit in a lot of high end UFA if Holland has the juice to get rid of salary (Neal, Koski, Kassian maybe, Turris if they don’t want to put him back on the buses). Not exactly an Oiler MO up to now. Certainly possible.
I’d avoid a long term deal at LD as the system is going to take care of that soon. RD only has Bouch as a high end talent, there is room there for a few years as Bouch becomes a solid rounded player IMO.
I’m not a fan of buyouts. GM that are active with their rosters use draft currency and know who is interested in a certain type, like Kassian. The key is to keep churning and get some picks back.
Pretty aggressive, you have to be right or it could be bad.
That would be an incredible off season. Decent is under selling it
It’s probably unrealistic, but completely do-able.
Hamilton + Bear + Bouchard = $11.250M (approx)
replace
Barrie + Larsson + Bear = $9.9M
difference: +$1.35M
Nurse + Forbort + Jones = $7.95M (approx)
replace
Nurse + Russell + Kulikov = $10.75M
difference: -$2.8M
So the defense got cheaper by about $1.5M and improved. Of course, there’s still 2 very good prospects to fit it on ELC’s in the future too, so it’s not like this is a short term solution.
Haula won’t cost more than $2M and if Hall comes in at $6.5-ish that’s totally workable with the current cap situation.
Reading all the Keith coverage every day makes me feel like I’m Marge and the Oilers are Homer:
I guess I am a Marge because this is pretty much how I feel every time the comment section latches on to a ‘let’s get Hall back’ frenzy.
Lol. Nails it.
Random question LT:
I recently signed back up again for athletic. Set follows to kind of my pack of most interesting teams.
Been really impressed by the flyers content. Their recent deep dives into UFA pool and fit for team needs pieces are fantastic.
Off top of head is there a team or two that jumps to mind as a go to daily follow?
Actually brought up I threshing just dollars old balls option that I’d rather see than Keith
Alex edler
I follow Nationals for baseball, 76ers for basketball, Oilers for hockey and Eagles for football. But I read as much as I can from the national hockey guys, really enjoy Mirtle in Toronto, all of the Bruins guys, LAK and others.