I have a few things to say this morning. First, if Tom Gazzola says that’s what he heard, then that’s what he heard. We can frame the issue, we can disregard, push back, question the motives of those who have shone a sliver of news on a story needing the plot to move forward, but there’s no questioning Gazzola. You have my word, that’s what he heard.
So, what do you want to do about it? For me, it doesn’t matter if both sides are open or if one side is for and the other against. What matters is putting the best team on the ice next season, and giving this version of the Oilers the best chance to win. I would vote Jesse Puljujarvi ten times out of ten, not just because he’s an effective player, but also because there’s real concern about the possible return. Based on the last seven years, expect the expected.
THE ATHLETIC!
- New Lowetide: Can Oilers’ Xavier Bourgault make the 2022-23 opening night roster?
- Lowetide: Oilers’ pivotal summer and what fans want to see from Ken Holland
- Lowetide: Is this Oilers’ year to find a world-class agitator in NHL Draft?
- Lowetide: 10 free agents for Edmonton Oilers to target this summer
- Lowetide: What Oilers assets should Ken Holland trade this summer?
- DNB: Oilers commit to coach Jay Woodcroft
- DNB: Which Oilers are most likely to return next season? Who goes?
- Lowetide: Are Oilers prospects Philip Broberg, Dylan Holloway NHL-ready?
- Lowetide: How Edmonton Oilers would benefit from signing Andrei Kuzmenko
- DNB: What if Edmonton Oilers trade Jesse Puljujarvi? The case for and against
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers’ Tyler Benson is at a career crossroads
- Lowetide: What does Oilers’ optimal roster for Jay Woodcroft look like?
- DNB: Connor McDavid and Leon Draisaitl’s playoffs for the ages: What’s the legacy?
- DNB & Scott Powers: Oilers’ cap situations if Duncan Keith retires
- Lowetide: Oilers pro scouts have to get it right in free agency this summer
- DNB: Edmonton Oilers offseason priorities: A 10-step plan for success
- Lowetide: What will Edmonton Oilers do in first round of 2022 NHL Draft?
- Lowetide: Can the ‘Connor McDavid will ask Oilers to be traded?’ group please sit down?
- DNB: What Oilers goalie Mike Smith’s unclear future could mean for offseason plans
- Lowetide: Why Jordan Dumais could be NHL Draft steal for Edmonton Oilers
SINCE 2015
- June 26, 2015: Oilers trade two picks (Mathew Barzal, Mitchell Stephens) for Griffin Reinhart.
- June 27, 2015: Oilers trade three picks (Jonas Siegenthaler, Sergey Zborovskiy, Adam Huska) for Cam Talbot and Ziyat Paigin.
- February 27, 2016: Oilers trade Justin Schultz for one pick (Filip Berglund)
- June 29, 2016: Oilers trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.
- June 22, 2017: Oilers trade Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome.
- November 16, 2018: Oilers trade Ryan Strome for Ryan Spooner.
- July 26, 2019: Oilers trade John Marino for one pick (Shane Lachance).
- February 23, 2020: Oilers trade Kyle Brodziak and one pick (Jan Bednar) for Mike Green.
- February 24, 2020: Oilers trade Sam Gagner and two picks (Brock Faber, Aatu Raty) for Andreas Athanasiou and Ryan Kuffner.
- April 12, 2021: Oilers trade 2022 fourth-round pick to NJD for Dmitri Kulikov.
- July 12, 2021: Oilers trade Caleb Jones and a draft pick (2022 third round) for Duncan Keith.
- July 28, 2021: Oilers trade Ethan Bear for Warren Foegele.
- March 21, 2022: Oilers trade 2022 second-round pick and William Lagesson for Brett Kulak.
- March 21, 2022: Oilers trade 2023 fourth-round pick for Derick Brassard.
This isn’t a complete list of course, but I played all the hits and a couple of deep cuts. How many of these trades are wins? I always liked the Cam Talbot trade and the Brett Kulak deal looks good from here. After that? So much talent bled it’s a wonder the patient survived.
JESSE PULJUJARVI
I’ve written on Jesse many times (one that I’ve hope you’ve read is here) and for all the world I wish we weren’t here with this player. He is a unique winger for Connor McDavid (I call JP a “skilled forward” in the article linked to here). One last time, although it’s clear the die is cast. This is five-on-five in 2021-22, via NST:
The smart kids tell me 200 minutes is the beginning of clarity, but the truth is JP has been doing this for years. He’s a good player, folks. He’s leaving town, and the reasons are not really important. Relationships begin and end every day. What you hope to do in life is recognize those who help and are good for you, and move along from those who keep you from becoming everything you dreamed of becoming. Maybe next time.
LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON
A busy show to wrap up a short week, TSN1260 today 10-2. We have an All-Star cast: Chris Johnston, TSN Insider pops in at 10:20; AJ Jakubec at 1120 to talk Ottawa CFL; James Duthie at 12:20; Tom Gazzola at 1. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!
Hey folks, just got in from work and found a bunch of inappropriate posts, and I don’t have time to go through and edited.
They are deleted for now, and I will be going through them later. Apologies. In the meantime, please keep in mind this is a public forum and you do not have permission to post things that are not appropriate. It is a forum for hockey.
Please and thanks.
I’m assuming this was some sort of block of time based delete?
Doubting that Joni Pitkanen conversation qualifies as controversial in any way…
Lol this is like the third day in a row I’ve gotten home from work and seen LT issue a public service announcement.
This is my happy place to escape from mountains of paperwork and procrastinate for a few minutes chatting about hockey. Let’s keep it that way please.
BTW I’m really intrigued about the Pitkanen convo … he was an interesting bird. Haven’t thought about him for years … so much talent but just didn’t have that extra bite to his game. Went on to have 3 more decent seasons before injuries messed him up. They got a pretty good return for him on paper, but Cole was an Eastern conference guy who struggled with the move out West.
Man being a fan of this team can be bewildering at times!
I missed the (evidently vaporized) Pitkanen discussion. But at the time as things kind of went south I remember Kevin Lowe explaining to the media that Pitkanen was an “only child.” That was…well, it was. I don’t know if old school attitudes are good or bad, but boy they were built in to the DNA of what was at the time the ruling OBC.
Defencemen had to kill on the ice and rookie forwards score 50 every season or gone
Sail on Bison King!
It’s too bad it didn’t work out. I understand the fancies and agree there’s an element to his forecheck and backcheck that is the goods but here we are, four seasons deep, less than 100 points to his name and maybe it’s time to move on.
Like others I do think JP brings a certain something to the lineup when he plays. That said I get the “play killer,” it matches up with the eye test. Right from his very first games through to his very last ones the eye test often tells me “dude what are you doing over there?” His read offensively can be bizarre at times, I see him get in the way of his teammates or go nowhere in particular. His shot has not improved over all these seasons, he struggles to get it off quick and with accuracy. He’s not particularly creative offensively and thats with or without the puck on his stick. His routes and reads can be outright bizarre at times.
You can’t deny theres some raw talent, you can’t deny the speed or the gigantic wingspan but I do get an element of one years experience five times.
I think it’s telling that four coaches haven’t found him a reliable spot, didn’t get him out on special teams consistently and couldn’t find a way to help him be more consistent.
The Nitushkin comparison seems apt and it might just so happen that he pops elsewhere.
I hope it’s more than the 2nd or 3rd that seems quite low given his actual output and age. I like the Connor Brown suggestions.
All the best kid, wish it could have been different.
How is JP for a third rounder (parlayed into a roster player) a good return?
Expect the expected, I guess.
Team still lives in the dark ages on trades.
Pro scouts…. Help?
Jesse Puljujarvi for a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick feels like Andrew Cogliano for a 2nd —-> Marco Roy —-> nothing to show for it kind of scenario.
We have seen far worse players, older with zero upside, go for more
If you can’t get anything for a good product it’s the salesperson
Scott Wheeler with his Memorial Cup wrap-up, in which he has analyses for, among others, The Bourg and some possible overagers the Oilers could be interested in (not necessarily saying they are):
https://theathletic.com/3378796/2022/06/30/memorial-cup-2022-wheeler-notebook/
So…not to start a riot, but this Spector bit kind of gave me pause:
“Puljujarvi is deemed “a play killer” inside the Oilers dressing room, it is believed, where two of the best centremen in the world have not been enough to turn Puljujarvi into a legitimate Top 6 winger in the NHL.”
Well…
So simple boxcars from the past two seasons combined of this past season’s main top six RW:
Bison King 140 GP 29-32-61 +28
Kyler Yamamoto 133 GP 28-34-62 +8
(Puljujärvi was +22 this past season and Yamamoto was -1 and no I am not defending trad +/- but still)
…and as endlessly discussed, fancies in most respects loooooove Puljujärvi.
Not really seeing this by number or by eye. I actually think Jesse’s reverse hitting and puck retrieval kept at least as many plays alive as Yamamoto’s crazed terrier act.
I like both players and would prefer to keep both, though that apparently won’t happen. I just don’t see either by eye or by any level of stats that Jesse was some kind of play killer. Play finisher, sure, as he missed so many chances and lost confidence through the season. But I thought he was at least as effective as Yamamoto at keeping the play going in the offensive zone.
Holloway and Bourgault can’t get here soon enough.
Jesse was prone to over passing the puck and his finishing ability is poor. I can understand the frustration, but I really doubt that McDavid and Draisaitl went to management or the coaching staff and told them to get Jesse off their line.
Spec likes to put out articles from time to time that have a bit of shock value … it’s what keeps him employed. Everyone on this board and probably all throughout the various corners of Oilers fandom are probably debating what he said in that article right now.
You know, I actually know all of that, and I’ve been engaging off and on with Spector since the late 1990s. I’m not defending his take in any way, but there’s no way the nonsense referenced above doesn’t have some form of credible sourcing.
Jesse started passing up shooting opportunities as the season went on and his confidence cratered. It was really frustrating, and so were all the point blank misses. I don’t think it’s reasonable to decide that’s who he is based on how this season went.
Spector is a hack to be sure, but Tom Gazzola also reported that the player and team want to move on. He claims that JP has not grown close to his teammates.
The thing with Jesse is that he has good possession stats. But he also got heavily sheltered. Most OZ starts on the team. Never got played in important defensive minutes.
Does Jesse bring value at $4+ million on the third line? Coach didn’t like to lean on him in important situations and he doesn’t create his own offence.
I agree with you, though you could say almost the same thing about the other top-6 RW. But there’s a pretty clear disconnect and the agent/player seem certainly to be banging the drums for a move. It’s been obvious from Holland’s day-after presser.
But I’m not seeing the grounds for what Spector reports, that he’s considered an o-zone play killer in the room. He’s a play killer when he doesn’t finish or lacks the confidence to even try, which was an increasing problem as this season wore on. In general, though, I think eye test and stats suggest at worst a middle of the road player in the offensive zone, certainly not a “play killer”.
JP played 36 percent of his minutes against elites, that’s significant. He finished 57 percent DFF, 12 percent DFFRel and had a 13-8 goal share.
He’s on an excellent part of the graph, via Puck IQ.
http://puckiq.com/woodmoney?season=20212022&tier=Elite&positions=clr&team=edm&group_by=player_season_team&min_toi=200&sort=dffpctrc&sort_direction=desc
Yeah but I’m willing to be he played nearly all those minutes with McDavid. Puljujarvi going to tilt the ice with McLeod/RNH on the third line and also produce significant points?
If he wants $3 million or under its a no brainer to retain him. If JP wants $4+ million can we count on him to be a significant player driver in the bottom six?
The case starts getting complicated if JP wants to be paid like a young top six option.
As noted in the article I wrote, JP thrived away from McDavid. People have the wrong idea about him. He HELPS. Honestly.
As of April 1, 2022, every single player who played with JP was better with him than without him on every important metric.
https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/extending-jesse-puljujarvi-should-be-priority-one-for-oilers-gm-ken-holland-heres-why
LT-Would it be fair to say that Woodcroft and Holland made clear to him and his agent that they solely see him as a bottom 6 winger and nothing more? For those making noise about how much his agent wants, how could he accept less than Kassian and Foegele? Thus, he should be in the high 3 low 4 mil range.
No. There’s no way they would have said they see him as a bottom 6 winger and nothing more. Woodcroft made it clear in his playoff pressers that Jesse only was lower in the lineup because he was struggling.
Bingo! He does not have Woodcroft’s trust.
Spector won’t stop until every oiler player is unhappy being here or completely devalued… and at the end of it, he can say with a smile on his face, I told ya so.
Of note, he’s not so different from a certain poster here.
Yep – Jesse is getting the Eberle treatment now from the media.
The thing we don’t know is … and because $$ can smooth over a lot of players gripes … how much is his agent pushing Holland for to get Jesse to resign? The player is just listening to his agent, who’s telling him that he just needs a change of scenery to get going. The team is telling him that he needs to get to work on his shot and stop and start with authority in the offensive zone. If the player prefers to listen to his agent, then he’s not going to be coachable next season. If Holland agrees to pay Jesse North of 4 million per season, I bet the agent’s advice to Jesse would change real quick.
I do agree that his agent is a big part of the problem.
— trade him for that mikyev guy in Toronto that Dubas doesn’t want to keep?
— is disheartening that word on the street is that “the puck dies on his stick” according to oiler players. Seems like group think.
— On a team that plays to his strengths he will likely crush it.
The Mihkeyev guy is a UFA so no need to trade for him.
Are you insinuating that McDavid and Draisaitl don’t know what they’re talking about and are victims of group think mentality? The guy got to play with the best player in the world and couldn’t produce at a commensurate rate. He really couldn’t make plays toward the end of the season, often choosing to rim the puck around the back of the net to the left defenseman. The players looked frustrated with him.
— but the players stats suggest they were better off with him than without, and that he was one of our better players one of the few who was solid away from the top guys, which is my point.
I’ve seen the stats and don’t disagree. I think he’s an NHLer — you don’t have to convince me. But if he wants out and your two MVP centers don’t have chemistry with him, then there is very little chance that it’s going to work. It’s like dating a person who treats you really well but you aren’t attracted to them.
I think you just provide the perfect analogy for this situation.
If he ends up in Carolina with the Finnish connection where the pressure is off. Where he’s hanging with his mates in social setting I think this would be the best outcome for him. I believe he would regain the spark he had in the World Juniors and score18- 20 consistently with the Canes.
So let’s not trade him to the Canes then.
Would you trade him for Martin Necas?
I would trade Jesse for Necas – that’s an actual hockey deal, where you have two young players reportedly unhappy with their role needing to get a second opinion from another organization. Maybe Jesse does well on the Canes surrounded by other Finns, but there’s just as good a chance that Necas would light it up playing with Leon.
But again, we don’t know all the details, just the rumours, and we’re trying to thread the needle on a deal that looks obvious on the surface, but is likely more multi-faceted than just trading one guy for the other.
You might be onto something there. Pretty sure that he would end up being a 18-20 goal scorer for the Oilers, too, if he stayed long term.
I mean, his rate per 82 games was 22 goals last season, and 18 goals this season, so yeah.
Mike Smith is likely to go on LTIR for the remainder of his contract, per Darren Dreger.
What a shocker wasn’t he supposed to retire LMAO
First – I don’t begrudge Smith for going to LTIR … he signed a contract in good faith and gave this team every last bit of his body left to help them win.
Second – with Klefbom on LTIR for 1 more season, it doesn’t really matter if we add Smith to LTIR.
Third – maybe he doesn’t want to retire. What if his plan is to take 8 months off, get fit and healthy, then rejoin the team in March for another playoff run. He may be an insurance policy in case the other bets the Oilers make this summer in goal don’t pan out.
Chris Johnston: “A couple of teams have engaged in trade talks with the Oilers on Jesse Puljujarvi, one of them is believed to be the Ottawa Senators.”
Connor Brown. do it
If they can get a decent player like Brown back for him, I will be less disappointed. If it’s a draft pick, that’s a poor return. Who knows what’s really being offered.
1 yr away from UFA. I’m not interested
Players produce in their contract year. The OIlers get to test drive him before maybe getting him to commit to a bargain deal.
In a hard cap world, when a teams cap has been managed so badly, the peripheral players are going to change.
Acquiring these 1 year from UFA players (Brown here, or Jarry for instance, if he’s available) has the advantage that you can negotiate an extension prior to the trade.
They’d need to wait a couple of weeks on the move, but it’s at least possible to have certainty on Brown beyond next season if they were to trade for him.
So I guess see all fear the Jesse for a pick deal. Painful .
Would people do Jesse for Connor Brown?
How about Jesse and Barrie for Connor Brown and Murray (50% retained)?
Spector on Puljujarvi and what to expect as a return.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/article/once-again-puljujarvi-wants-out-and-oilers-are-ready-to-accommodate-with-a-trade/
If they trade him for a second round pick I will scream.
What are the options? Holding out and letting him play in Finland again? Bringing him back to a team who doesn’t want him and he doesn’t want to be there?
Yeah that would be awful. But really what’s the rush with trading him? Wait until you get a good return. Jesse has zero leverage right now.
The return will get worse the longer this drags on.
Thats pure speculation on your part. Let the guy hold out if he’s not happy. He can go back to Finland, and pad his stats again. Holland should not be under any pressure to trade Jesse unless the return is a player that helps the Oilers for the next three seasons.
As the summer progresses, other NHL teams will be filling up their rosters…not waiting for Holland to make a move so the potential destinations decreases.
If Jesse goes home again, there’s pretty good chance he never comes back.
Pure speculation.
Your hero Joe Sakic would never let a player and his agent take his team hostage like that. So Holland should do what Joe Sakic would do … sit tight, be patient and wait for the right deal. If Jesse decides to take his ball, go home and never come back … we’ll then we’ll wish him well. But he’ll be forever remembered as Yakupov 2.0 … a player with all the tools but missing that special something needed to put it all together at the NHL level.
There are some similarities but also some differences in this situation and that of Matt Duchene wanting a trade.
It appears here that both the team and the player want to move on and some of that based on Spector’s article is that the Oiler players have said “plays die on Jesse’s stick”
Now that is public, it devalues Jesse even further.
Sakic was indeed very patient but he was not dealing with a marginal player but one who, obviously, had value around the league.
Spector also polled scouts and league executives who were pretty clear that a second or third round pick would be the likely return on a trade.
As the offseason rolls on most picks get traded ahead of the draft or in the first couple of days of free agency before the August hiatus.
Most teams have their rosters set by September so the market shrinks considerably.
Of course scouts from OTHER teams will opine that his value is low. That’s called negotiating through the media.
None of them are known to have skin in the game.
They were asked their opinion and expressed it.
No negotiating involved.
Pure opinion.
Still better than a second round pick.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.
We’ve already been down that road. They couldn’t get good trade value for him back then and things haven’t really changed. Plus the player doesn’t want to be an Oiler anymore — do you really want a guy like that on the team?
If the return is not something that will help the team simply don’t make the trade! He is rfa and if no one is willing to offer sheet him JP has little choice. You set the standard as how you are treated. Give in like a door mat and you will be treated like a door mat!
The Oilers don’t have a second round pick.
This is an opportunity to hedge a sunk cost.
Meh. Holland got him back here for two more years, and I doubt very much if they’ll give him away. Your argument is more ‘worse case scenario’ and we can’t possibly know what may come. I’d suggest you may be hoping for it, but that’s not the same as it happening.
Curious, given all we’ve heard today, what you think his market value is.
Puljujarvi has far more value than the scouts in Spec’s article. Teams may lowball, but Holland has no good reason to sell low on this player. If he can’t get a useful player, under control for the next three seasons, then don’t make the deal.
Seems to me that could result in a toxic situation if the player doesn’t want to be there and his team mates have gone public with their dissatisfaction with him.
HH, I there are hits and there are misses. You missed on this one. Better luck next time!
I expect we will find out shortly.
I expect we will.
Bring back an unhappy player? Let him go back to Finland? These aren’t great options either.
I’m not buying the unhappy player bit, issues get framed in the hours before a trade and this one will be wildly unpopular. They’re going to trade him. Based on all we know, it’s unwise. Doesn’t matter. Get someone who can help and then move along. That’s the next step.
I do hope someday Edmonton’s decision making is stronger but that day isn’t today.
Interesting perspective. The verbal surrounding the situation does not align with a happy player. His past history of holding out for a trade only reinforces this, imo. I would have preferred that they resign him but that’s not happening, obviously.
yeah because your track record on predictions is sooooooo good we believe you 😉
Jesse can opt for arbitration and get an award to large for the Oilers to manage. Arbitration would also freeze Holland from being able to make moves and deals.
Spector actually says pick #71 (3rd round) would be ‘fair compensation’, but perhaps Holland can ‘create a market’ to drive up the price up to a 2nd.
Man.
2nd or 3rd round pick was the value two years ago before re-establishing himself as a first liner in the NHL. After a hot start this year some people were willing to lock him in at 7M before he “supernovas”. Bison King and all. So now they trying manage our expectations by selling the 3rd rounder idea. That’s how you trade your mansion down to a paper clip. Can’t imagine Holland doing this but expect a meh trade return because Holland.
Spector cannot bring himself to comment on Puljujarvi’s positive analytics without disdain.
“analytics exist that pump up Puljujarvi’s value and could entice certain teams to the asset.”
As if to say: “An alchemical formula exists that provides an illusion of Puljujarvi’s value that could entice certain gullible teams who believe in such voodoo to the asset.”
If I were Holland, I would be apoplectic about that article.
If other teams are basing their decisions on Spector’s articles, they’re in big trouble.
Derek Lalonde is the new coach of the Detroit Red Wings.
Sad to hear about Pulj, another classic sell-low trade seems imminent now where he’s traded for peanuts to be in a salary dump packaged with Kassian.
What would you have to add in order to get Strome out of Chicago for JP? If Oilers can sign him for 3-4mil that would help fill a hole in the top-9 and even strength scoring. While it doesn’t fix up defense and PK issues at forward, he could help add another dimension (and right shot) to the powerplay.
Jesse’s stats this year are 14G 22A 36 pts in 65 games
Martin Necas 14G 26 A 40 pts in 78 gamesNecas linemates generally are Trochek and Svechnikov
I would do this trade.
According to the NHL executives/scouts that Spector interviewed, JP will fetch a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick. It’s a shit return for an established NHL player but the writing is on the wall now. A disappointing end to the JP saga.
Wedgewood re-ups for two years with the Stars.
As I think about the Tom Gazzola rumour.
If the Oilers are moving away from Jesse what are they move towards?
With $7M ish of cap space and #1G, 1LW and lower cost 3RHD and the wishlist but NOT signed list.
How would Holland sequentially move through the summer. I am very sure he is not giving up low cost assets without getting the other puzzle piece in order.
If the Gazzola rumour is right that must mean the first three items on the wish list are solved.
Craig Anderson signed with Buffalo for another season, so if Mike Smith does play this coming season, he will still not be the oldest goalie in NHL.
Anderson signs one-year, $1.5 million contract with Sabres (nhl.com)
The rubber will hit the road on the tampering charge……. “in on Forsberg” would mean, “will have interest in him” if he does’t sign with his incumbent rights holder in the next two weeks”
If JP is to be traded, so be it. The circumstances behind the move are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things moving forward. I think we’re all guilty of spending too much time dwelling on the past on what could have been or what should have happened instead of focusing on the future.
The future means that the oilers are legit contenders with or without JP.
As far as I’m concerned the oilers are in a position of strength. He’s a good player who needs refinements in his game. There are teams who value that IMO.
I would personally package him and the 1st to a team who has a 1st in the top 10 this year. See if anyone bites as I think there is quality there.
Otherwise, there are 20-25 other teams who could use JP in a top six role. At the end of the day, if JP is used to acquire a goalie of substance who will be able to occupy the net for the next 2-4 years competently then I’ll consider the trade a success.
Holland and pro player assessment is the big kink in the chain so let’s hope for the best.
In fairness the pro scouting has seemed much improved! Kulak was excellent as was the read on Kane.
Darren Dreger
@DarrenDreger
·
1h
There will be some change to the Oilers coaching staff. Brian Wiseman is moving on and has strong interest from a variety of teams. Gulutzan and Manson expected to stay on to assist Jay Woodcroft.
The accusation, not just in this thread but by many over the weeks, is that the league itself is at fault for the grievance not being taken care of by the time free agency comes around.
My retort is with the facts that its not the NHL that controls the arbitration process that is being undertaken – they didn’t set the date for the initial hearing, they didn’t determine a second hearing is necessary and they don’t set the date of the 2nd hearing (and don’t control the arbitrator’s availability).
I was watching the CoH podcast last night – Bruce and David seemed to indicate that it was the NHL that pushed the arbitration date out to the middle of July with the aim of giving the Sharks and Kane the time needed to settle before the case went to arbitration. Not sure if that was just speculation on their part though but it would make sense that the NHL does not want this to go in front of an independent arbitrator … the Sharks case for voiding his contract was suspect … the NHL allowing it to happen the way it did would not be a good look.
Another thing they mentioned was the idea of trading Keith to the Coyotes for the purposes of a buy out, then having Keith resign at a lower cap hit. Why not make it a bigger deal with Jesse included and some of the Coyotes excess draft picks coming back? Seems like a deal where both sides get something of value … Oilers recoup some mid round picks and get cap space. Coyotes get a 4.5 million dollar cap hit while only spending 1 million and an actual useful NHL player who they can give a shot as a top 6 winger. Jesse gets the chance to prove himself with a team that is not under the same pressure to win as Edmonton is. Keith gets to stay in Edmonton, play a meaningful role on a contender, collect the same amount of money but not have to read article after article about how bad his cap hit is.
There are a number of things that the NHL does including officiating and discipline that may not pass the smell test!
When the decision was made to go to arbitration a condition on timing not only could have but should have been set!
Not sure I want that commitment, for that long, to that age of a goalie that has been consistent for a long time – not until we see what the developed prospect is ready for.
I fear that sports teams, like armies, are products of the societies they come from.
I think it is likely hard for most foreigners to fit in on the Oilers. We have the highest percentage of Canadians (75%) and North Americans (83%) in the league. For comparison, the average team has 30% non-North Americans and some of the next most Canadian teams are Montreal (65%) and Vegas (63%).
I would call on some of the historians on the group to say whether this is a part of the culture, but if it is so then we will continue to miss out on valuable talent because of it. Source: https://thewincolumn.ca/2022/03/31/breaking-down-each-nhl-teams-roster-by-nationality-2022-trade-deadline/
We know language was an issue for JP. Why? How does a team “let” this happen?
Would also be very interested in this as I am frequently calling for as much advancements in “qualitative” social science research from teams as advanced stats (and it’s mirrored hobgoblin, betting) build increasing legitimacy.
This is Jari Kurri’s team ffs. We should be an outpost of Finnish development and procurement.
What about Matti Hagman? I used to love the Anderson Messier Hagman line. That’s when they first started the back-door pass from behind the net, it made a lot of Goalies look silly.
Since it’s relevant to the conversation, I wanted to push back on this a bit.
While the Oilers are near the top of the league in non-North Americans in this snapshot, I don’t think everything you say here is quite correct. After the trade deadline the Oilers did have 83% (4 of 24) NA players, but it looks like MTL, PHI and WPG all had a higher percent, according to the article.
The snapshot also doesn’t include Broberg, Niemalainen, Lagesson or Samorukov, who spent chunks of the season with the team and are a big part of the future D. It doesn’t include Yamamoto either, who while born in NA is clearly from a non-traditional hockey background.
The other thing is it’s a snapshot. A similar snapshot of the Oilers from last season would have had 8 or 9 non-NA players on the post trade deadline roster (ie – higher than league average). And if you look back to 18-19 when Puljujarvi left the team the first time, the roster had 7 non-NA players on it (ie – league average). Since Holland has been the GM the Oilers have also been very active in signing non-NA free agents (Kahun, Nygard, Haas, Granlund, Jurco, Lennstrom, a strong attempt at Kuzmenko).
You can also look at the Oilers drafting. 4 of their last 10 1st round picks were non-NA players, all picked in the top 10 (and Yamamoto a 5th of the 10, if you want to include him). And since Holland arrived more than half (56%) of the players the team has drafted have actually been non-NAs (8 NAs, 10 non-NAs).
We can’t know what’s going on in the dressing room, but I don’t think it’s fair to say the Oilers have generally had fewer non-NA players than most teams, or that they’ve shown any aversion to pursuing non-NA players (ie – they seem unlikely to miss out on talent because of something like this).
Per Dreger:
There will be some change to the Oilers coaching staff. Brian Wiseman is moving on and has strong interest from a variety of teams. Gulutzan and Manson expected to stay on to assist Jay Woodcroft.
Reading the tea leaves at the time it was my impression that Lucic arrived with the belief that he was going to be the alpha dog on the team and when he found out that the rest of the team didn’t see it that way it went bad.
Entirely different situation.
Given much of Lucic’s career was based on being the team bully I’d personally disregard any hints he may or may not have made!
Professional sport is Big business! No longer sport as such! Success is measured by wins and championships! Margin between success and failure is very small. The correct team chemistry is paramount to success. This is not childrens sports where everyone gets a participation ribbon! The unsuccessful managers and coaches lose their jobs and players their careers. The only people with little to no skin in the game are we the fans! Welcome to the real world in which your remark it’s only a game and your other reasoning is completely unrealistic!
It’ll be a sad day if Jesse goes, but he’s still a valuable asset that we need to maximize. I try to use him as bait for a young-ish RHD to grow with Bouchard. I’m leaning towards the likes of Fabbro/Cernak after a quick search of the 15 and 16 entry drafts. This would further allow Barrie to be flipped for help up front, essentially replacing Puljujarvi.
Interesting idea, not sure about getting Fabbro or Cernak. Alec Regula looks interesting, is a RD but played as a LD with Bouchard in London. Size, +skating, low cap.
https://www.capfriendly.com/players/alec-regula
https://thehockeywriters.com/alec-regula-2018-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
Poor Milan, no one wanted to bleach their hair with him. Kassian told him he would if he wasn’t bald and that was it for old Milan. Just wasn’t one of the boys.
LT – the LRT is never, ever going to work properly. Ever.
Must’ve enjoyed a golden era of LRT back when it got me to MacEwan U every day.
Can or should the Oil be looking at ilya mikheyev?
Speedster who could fill in on the wing, left shot though.
Faster than JP but with worse D.
Same hands, ie no hands.
Extreme speed, good PK, not a great finisher, but could generate chances. He touches the puck a lot. But cost 3-4M I think hes looking for and thats doubtful for a “nice to have” guy. Still…great speed
How can they make a decision until the Kane is finalized or off the table?
Too expensive. Hard pass.
I wish I had the same access to the locker room as so many here seem to have.
You simply don’t know, do you? But certainly you’ve been in this scenario before: wanting a change of pace, things not gelling despite X, Y, or Z. You can move on and know neither side is satisfied with the result, that there’s more there to give, but also know that it’s just not coming.
Just really odd to hear so much certainty over something that is certainly uncertain.
Ok, sufficient +#s for what would be my following thought which I didn’t post, and will certainly not elicit additional +’s:
All of this might stem somewhat from an OVER RELIANCE on analytics: JPs supporters point to his advanced stats. I don’t disagree the underlying numbers are good in some important areas. But teams are ALSO made up of intangibles. Things you sometimes can’t quantify. So the same folks championing JP would be disinclined to think that there’s an amorphous, old school thing like “chemistry” which would actually matter: something hard to pin down, even from the inside. Something that can be the difference bwteeen winning and losing, but not in the Xs or the Os of gameplay. It’s instead much easier to chalk it up to nefarious personalities who had it in for him, or an inept management that fucked him over.
Hockey is about execution. Chemistry matters. (edit: and most of the time it’s nobody’s fault, and best for all parties to move on.)
Personality clashes are real! They are not necessarily either parties fault! They are however detrimental to the team concept of one for all, all for one!
Maybe they’ll make a straight to Blockbuster movie located in the Drama section of the one remaining store open.
Lowetide
This is the correct take from a smart guy. I wish those two defensemen had stayed though, good players both.
===============
Jouni Nieminen
The narrative by Edmonton Oilers fans that “The Media drives players out of town” is absolute bullshit. Although I did literally drive Joni Pitkänen and Janne Niinimaa to the Nisku International Airport when they left. Joni bought me a cheeseburger at the airport. It was good.
Pitkanen is and I’m sure will remain one of the most underrated players to play for the team in the past couple decades.
When you’re a defenceman who never loses a puck battle and has an auto-clear puck flip that always works…and can help the team score…man what a combo. Just needed to find the right coach.
According to Hitchcock, Pitkanen had a photographic memory. He could discuss a shift with him and the player would remember everything about it. Always liked him.
Pitkanen zoomed the Kid line big time. That was the moment to package Gags Neilson for young star blue.
Per Dreger: No movement on contract talks with Kane but on-going negotiations with Kulak – Habs are also a real possibility for him.
Says Kulak’s agent lol
Per Spec: Archie Henderson will be retiring shortly.
Excellent news!
A person doesn’t need to be liked by everybody but if you don’t fit in it’s as simple as that. Is it the group of 20+ or is it the one that doesn’t fit? Usually, the one that doesn’t fit will walk. You can try as much as you can for that “one” to feel comfortable but sometimes it doesn’t work.
Many NHL players will have their signing bonuses paid tomorrow.
That should grease the skids.
Excellent point.
It’s painful looking at the Oilers trades of the past, including Holland’s. If he can sign Kulak to a cap friendly deal, that’s a win. I cringe to think how little he’ll get for JP who will most likely turn into a Nituchkin type player. Oh well… This team is still a ways away from truly competing like the Avs. As long as we get closer every year, that’s all we can hope for. It starts with getting a true No. 1 goalie.
Or, hopefully, Nichushin’s recent success could be exactly what drives JP’s value up. Opposing GMs may see this as an opportunity to get their hands on an incredibly rare beast in the NHL. And they’re probably right.
Of course, that’s wishful thinking. History tells us we will get a woefully underwhelming return that will prove to be a decided loss long term (and short term, and medium term).
The only saving grace here is, that while it does seem like an inevitability that he’s moved, if a trade doesn’t come to pass, the media hasn’t been successful in turning the city against him just yet.
Why can’t it be a good group of players who treat people right to the best of their ability.
Bear fit in fine, he was one of the boys. Racist remarks are something he would have heard his entire life. Not okay, but that wasn’t what drove him off the team! Nothing to do with the team. He excelled through AHL and NHL.
Jessie was a talented gifted hockey player who never had to work that hard at it. The team welcomed him.
He chose to come early to the NHL, he chose to return to Finland. And indicators are hes fine looking for a new destination. He also chooses how he plays the game. He was not ostracized.
This is not a stain on the players within the organization.
Friedman and Marek reporting the LAK are still in on Filip Forsberg.
The balance of power in the Pacific could be in for a seismic shift.
Ladies and gentlemen, we’ve got the new “rubber meets the road” and it’s “seismic shift”. Looking forward to seeing this phrase tossed around a lot in the coming year!
Now if you’ll excuse me, my morning coffee has kicked in and the office men’s room could be in for a seismic shift!
Of note, this past season is the first time either Fiala or Forsberg put up a PPG. Cherry picking stats again, let alone your whole point is based on “could” and isn’t reality yet. Lots of hypothetical situations this time of year.
Of course nothing is sure until it happens but Friedman and Marek mentioned that contracts talks between Nashville and Forsberg have stalled.
Of note, Forsberg and Arvidsson are former team mates and best of friends.
Also of note, Philip Danault scored 27 goals last season eclipsing 20 for the first time in his career.
Fancy that.
I’m sure there are a lot of best friends in the NHL that don’t end up playing on the same team.
Btw using the term “eclipsing” for 7 goals is a bit excessive. Not sure what you’re trying to say by “Fancy that”…
The other good news here is Minnesota got a pick 10 spots higher than the Oilers in the Fiala trade. Surely this player will become something worth cheering for.
How can you negotiate with someone you don’t have the rights too. I thought that was the whole point of throwing pick at UFA like Toronto trying
Yeah…it’s not like UFA’s don’t sign contracts 2 minutes after free agency opens every damn year.
It. Happens. All. The. Time.
Not 3 weeks before free agency
I would surmise that Johnny Gaudreau has a very good idea of who is going to offer him a generous 7 year deal.
Would you disagree?
Minnesota and LA probably agreed to terms of the deal conditional on Blake getting to talk to Fiala.
We’ll give you this if we can sign him. Essentially a RFA offer sheet to Fiala where the two teams negotiated the compensation before hand. A friendly takeover vs. a hostile one.
Greatest prospect pool supposedly something something something.
When one hires a coach who cannot weak at developing young players…
Blake is at least recognized the problem quickly and pivoted.
Tyler Wright goes in to the org’s use of analytics in their amateur scouting.
https://theathletic.com/3392097/2022/06/30/edmonton-oilers-2022-nhl-draft-wright/
Good article. Pretty well says all the logical things.
Might trade the first, might trade back, depends n what targets are available. For me, delivering one solid prospect is important and if they are there at #29, grab them.
Isn’t this pretty much pure speculation on McDavid and what’s happening in the room?
I haven’t seen anything close to concrete about McDavid wanting Jesse gone….. have I?
Just body language that we have noticed more than once.
If this was an issue, no one would be playing with Crosby or McKinnon. Players get frustrated with other prayers. It’s allowed.
I’d like the Oilers to keep their 1st rounder this year. With how well the scouts have been performing lately and the after effects of covid I do believe there are great players hiding in the brush waiting to be picked.
The Oilers are in win now mode and still have holes. I will be shocked if they use their own pick.
A good hockey player leaving town is never bad in and of itself – because all that matters is what comes back.
This fanbase and this comments section is trained that trash is coming back. And likely overhyped, expensive trash.
Wait to see if that’s the case first. Should that come to pass you may fire away.
It’s always fun to speculate.
Yes – it’s the preset-depression that isn’t the greatest.
We hope for the best, but we know it will turn out as always.
Matheson hinting on Twitter that Columbus is interested in Kassian.
They’ve got to take advantage of one of these Kassian-popular windows at some point.
Though it is Matheson so it could all be fluff.
Aaron Portzline mentioned it as an option in a June 12th article in the Athletic.
When I was doing a rough Armchair GM for the Oilers at CapFriendly, Columbus seemed to be the most likely destination for Kassian, so that is where I sent him. (I trade him for Carolina’s extra 4th.)
A whole bunch of young forwards in a big physical division for a team that is rebuilding and not contending although hoping to be competitive. Kassian may have a psychological effect as an enforcer, even if he really doesn’t enforce.
I’m not that concerned with Jesse. He will be a good player but he definitely lacks playoff intensity and I don’t think he will ever will have it. The player we should be talking about is Bourgault. He may not start the year in Edmonton but next spring he should be ready to contribute. This guy blew the doors off the season all the way to second in Memorial cup scoring. So many big time goals to get there also. He is looking like a covid season steal.
What I liked about Bourgault’s preseason games was that he wasn’t trying to do too much. He owned his corners, his boards and he worked them well. He played like a rookie, a bit tentative, but he got it done and won puck battles. From there he moved the puck to good places. His skating was good, his positioning looked good.
With our centers, strong boardwork and predictability go a long way. Scoring will come.
I have no doubt Tommy heard what he did and I have no doubt that his source is indeed legit and inside the org.
At the same time, it doesn’t necessarily come to fruition – Tommy is an insider with legit sources but the musings have not always come to fruition.
I hope they are wrong on this one – I will likely be disappointed but can remain hopeful for now.
I played hockey with Tom – good dude and not full of shit when it comes to the game.
What part do you hope he is wrong about, that Jesse wants to leave or that the Oil are down with him?
Yup, really, I understand the new contract but I don’t agree with it – he should be back on an AHL deal like the last number of years as I don’t think he should be an NHL option. I understand the org thinks differently, that’s the reason, I don’t agree with it.
Yes, I think Shore much have been heart as its hard to believe the org thinks Malone is a better NHL player than Shore was in June.
Im not so much shocked that Shore didn’t play in the playoffs, but absolutely shocked he was signed to a two year deal and didn’t see any icetime! Why? Its a big miss in player assessment.