I’m at the point in summer where populating my ‘reasonable expectations’ model comes into view. One of the questions I like to ask is “what player on the 50-man roster would provide the biggest shock by making the team/playing a significant number of games” and my answer this year is Ryan Fanti.
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: Oilers’ Evan Bouchard is on the edge of stardom
- Lowetide: How many goals will Oilers winger Evander Kane score next season?
- Lowetide: Four Oilers defence prospects applying for one job. Who wins?
- DNB: Oilers depth chart: Where did they improve and where can they make more moves?
- Lowetide: Skinner’s rise shows importance of homegrown goalies
- DNB: Oilers’ Kane, Campbell signings are calculated risks in push for Stanley Cup
- Lowetide: For Oilers forward Dylan Holloway, the future may come early
- DNB: Oilers’ Brad Holland on AGM role, analytics, working with his dad: Q&A
- Lowetide: Oilers top-20 prospects, summer 2022
- DNB: First-round pick Reid Schaefer can bring ‘big-boy hockey’ to his hometown team
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers prospect pipeline needs a post-draft boost
- Lowetide: 5 AHL players who can help the Oilers next season
- DNB: Edmonton Oilers offseason what I think and what I know 1.0
- Lowetide: Remember Oilers’ biggest summer ever? It needs to happen again
- DNB: How Oilers’ draft pick Kelly Buchberger became the long shot who delivered
- DNB: What we’re hearing on Edmonton Oilers’ Puljujarvi, more
- Lowetide: Can Oilers’ Xavier Bourgault make the 2022-23 opening night roster?
- Lowetide: Oilers’ pivotal summer and what fans want to see from Ken Holland
- Lowetide: What Oilers assets should Ken Holland trade this summer?
- DNB: What if Edmonton Oilers trade Jesse Puljujarvi? The case for and against
RYAN FANTI
Ryan Fanti was signed out of Minnesota-Duluth in the spring, after delivering (37 games, 1.83 GAA, .929 SP) a terrific season in the NCHC. The Bulldogs program has several goalie alum who made the NHL: Alex Stalock (152), Bob Mason (145), Rick Heinz (49), Hunter Miska (6), Kasimir Kaskisuo (2), Chad Erkson (2) and Jerome Mrazek (1). No Tony Esposito in there, but a few guys who made the world’s best league.
Over many years, the Oilers have found goaltenders who played college hockey. Jim Corsi went to Concordia University, and the team used him during an especially panicked season (1979-80) when they were changing goalies all the time. Eddie Mio was another early stopper from Colorado College, he was the last Oilers goalie before Grant Fuhr and Andy Moog landed for good.
In later years, Ty Conklin arrived from New Hampshire and I did believe Shane Starrett might have an NHL future but he had a bad injury at the wrong time and missed the opportunity. Odds are Fanti gets 25+ games in Bakersfield and competes with Olivier Rodrigue as backup to Calvin Pickard with the Bakersfield Condors. You never know with goaltenders, especially the college free agents.
VINCENT DESHARNAIS
I’ve included him in my RE because Jay Woodcroft has been vehement (I omitted the name in my question to him on Lowetide and Jamieson and he specifically brought it up to include Desharnais with Philip Broberg, Dmitri Samorukov and Markus Niemelainen) so Desharnais is in the plans for this coming season. He’s improved his footwork in the AHL, and you can’t coach tall or wingspan, so I’m intrigued by this story.
My guess is that opening night will be Darnell Nurse-Cody Ceci, Brett Kulak-Evan Bouchard and Philip Broberg-Tyson Barrie. No. 7 defenseman might be Dmitri Samorukov, as he’s waiver eligible and too valuable to be lost for nothing. I know people don’t think losing players on waivers is an important part of roster management, but Anton Forsberg is a recent example of why it does in fact matter.
NOAH PHILP
He has played in eight pro games and is about to turn 24 (in August) so he’s burning daylight. There are some interesting things in his resume. A RH center, he’s 6.03, 198 and has good hands. In 36 games of the University of Alberta Golden Bears, he scored 20-18-38 over two seasons. There’s every chance he posts pedestrian numbers with the Bakersfield Condors, but I can’t find anything that would represent a fatal flaw in his game. There were other teams in on him, and because he’s a RHC in a world of lefties in the organization, Philip could surprise. An absolutely longshot, but that is the group we’re discussing here.
LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON
It will be a busy show today, TSN1260, beginning at 10. CFL Week 7 preview, mlb is back, and the Oilers rumoured to have one more move of significance to come. More on Hockey Canada if it warrants and your texts and questions are welcome. I think I know where we’ll be heading today, but we’ll see. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!
A quite note: A news story broke last night that involves Oilers owner Daryl Katz. It’s a very serious story and deserves to be discussed freely and in a responsible way. This forum has long established that we are unable to handle these issues in a mature fashion. Please refrain from posting anything on the subject, including links, your own opinion, or editorials you find on line. There are other forums better able to handle this subject, I encourage you to post there. Please and thanks.
Heartily agree. On this and many things (INCLUDING hockey), we don’t know what we don’t know yet. Reserve discussion and judgement for the proper time and place.
heartily agree, twitter is the best place for this 😀
— agreed it’s a serious allegation and trust LTs judgement. Which is a shame because the potential implications are unimaginable for the organization. There some posters who could provide great insight. However the last thing anyone wants to read here is a rabbit hole of hot tales of “he did it” or “we are so woke”.
I bristle whenever I hear anyone use the term “woke’. Low grade demonizing, even unfit for the schoolyard, in my opinion. Appeal to my intellect, not my fears. So very Republican (in the current version of the party).
Nino for 4 million or puj for 3.2 million?
There’s a good reason clubs are walking from qualifying RFA
Well, I hope Mr. Mitchell is okay…
Me as well!
Agree. It is not like him to post late.
He’s hosting for Neilson on the 6-10 show!
YOU MEAN THE ARTICLE IS OVER THREE HOURS LATE?!
lol
/Randle
There are still a few interesting, and likely cheap, contracts out there for forwards.
Edmonton’s own Sam Steel (24yrs, 20 pts in 68GP), Jonathan Dahlén (24yrs, 22pts in 61GP as a rookie), Daniel Sprong (25yrs, 20pts in 65GP, 20pts in 42GP the previous year), Evgeny Svechnikov (25yrs, 19pts in 72GP), Danton Heinen (27yrs, 33pts in 76GP).
Any guesses on what these players can command on the market?
I like that Steel’s a local kid and has puck skills. Dahlen is Ulf’s son and had a great rookie season. Sprong is very fast and could turn into a great checker that can produce a bit too., I like Svechnikov’s size but his skating might still be a bit questionable. I’m not sure Heinen can be signed cheaply. He has a pretty good resume already and he is fast and big and has some grit to go along with ok hands.
Sprong might be the best gamble if he’s cheap.
Always liked Steel. Former Regina Pat and all. Loved watching him when I still lived there…
Gregg McKegg
from sportsforecaster:
SCOUTING REPORTThe feisty forward has bounced between the NHL and the American Hockey League for the better part of a decade, with his work ethic and determination earning him time as a depth player and penalty killer, despite the fact that he does not provide much offense. Has been a productive scorer at lower levels but appears to have been categorized as a role player in the NHL, resulting in limited ice time.
Long Range Potential: Hard-working depth forward.
he got covid last year too
only played 4 times after the trade deadline (where the Rangers picked up Copp, Vatrano, Motte)
took 160 faceoffs in 43 games – 3.7 per game. 45%
Was 13th in total ice time for ranger fw’s
15th in toi/gp 10:52
1:12 of which was PK which was 5th amongs fw’s until Copp and Motte surpassed him
of the top 13 fw’s in 5v5 ice time before the trade deadline he was:
11th in xGF%relative, ahead of Rooney and Reaves
last (13th) in pts/60 with .65
iHDCF/60 was 12th at 2.12 –> perimeter player
6th in hits/60
first in shots blocked/60
11th in minors/60
11th in penalties drawn/60
PDO 1.017
played with Seth Griffith on the OHL champion London Knights
lost the memorial cup final in OT
Played with Warren Foegele in Carolina
most common line-mates by far – you know how Gallant picks lines and sticks with them – were Reaves and Rooney
5v5 goals 7-19
with Reaves 3-13
Rooney 4-6
fighting for Malone’s 14th fw spot with a host of others?
Fighting with Malone for the 16F spot… that’s got to be the way!
keepers post from earlier reminded me that Campbell was the goalie that Tkachuk jumped a little and landed on his back/neck/head.
that’s one thing about Tkachuk leaving, I won’t have to worry about him injuring our players as much. I still remember his first game against us. What did he injure, 3 players?
I hope he moves out of conference
Yeah and most of these instances are on plays where he should be receiving majors or supplemental discipline but gets nothing. Baffles me the garbage he’s allowed to get away with.
Benson….Benson….I’ve kind of given up hope of him becoming a regular on the big league roster (as it appears everyone has – i don’t see his name on anyone’s depth chart). But man, that 20 year old AHL season! Sheesh, it was good. But that was 4 seasons ago now. Anyways, I wonder what he has to ‘say’ this season.
2016 is really looking like the draft from hell.
Laine
P-L Dubois
Puljujarvi
Juolevi
Tkachuk
One dud, three guys who all rejected their drafting team, and a fourth rumoured to have done the same. At least JP still has a chance of playing a UFA year for his team, but sheesh we will have to see if he makes it there.
Just popped in to say thanks LT. This one title really caught my attention.
Midnight at a liquor store in Texas… man, haven’t heard that one in a long while.
Good ol’ Merle.
San Jose Sharks hire David Quinn as head coach.
https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/san-jose-sharks-hire-david-quinn-as-head-coach/
So Chucky refused $11 for 8 years and the captaincy from the Flames? To me, this is a whole different ballpark than Gaudreau and he’ll definitely be booed in Cgy for the rest of his career *spits*
Well HH, it turns out he won’t be resigning for the same money as his brother. Fancy that.
Haha I forgot the Flyers hired Torts, because of course the Flyers hired Torts! He made the news today. Have some chuckles:
“The thing that bothers me and some of the things I’ve read is people are upset about Tony DeAngelo,” Tortorella said. “Tony DeAngelo’s a hell of a player, Tony DeAngelo has personality. Is he going to say and do some stupid stuff? You’re damn right he is. But I’d rather have a guy doing stupid stuff than having a choir boy here just going about your business. You don’t win that way, you don’t win championships, you don’t build a team without any personality. Tony’s going to bring that and, plus, he’s a hell of a player.”
Oh John, you truly are the master of the Verbal Own Goal. Most off what isn’t in bold is easily disputed, but hypothetically defensible, but the bold line… Can you hear me rolling my eyes? Cause that’s what that sound is. Would anyone trade a consummate professional for a loose cannon, if their skill levels were comparable? Apparently Torts would. Note to self: if Torts ever becomes GM of a hockey team, make trades with him. If he’s ever sitting at a poker table, I want to play, too.
On a funny note, the Flyers’ players now have been publicly given permission to do “stupid stuff” like get into a fistfight with their own goalie, and their coach has publicly stated he doesn’t want them to be well behaved players. Maybe they should have made Gritty the coach.
*another example of evaluative language. Instead of “choir boy” he could have said “well behaved player” and the meaning would have been the same, yet the rhetoric is different.
When you have a Stanley Cup Ring you have more leeway to speak your peace.
He is still employed bcs if you need to light a fire under your team he has a thermo nuclear or two in his back pocket
maybe he reminds Torts of himself
“is he going to say and do some stupid stuff? You’re damn right he is.”
The more I hear about Campbell the more I like. I believe Holland nailed this one and our Window starts now. If we can win a cup Leon stays in my opinion, this is the first season I think we can win it all in over 30 years.
Curious why you think the Oilers are a better team than Colorado.
Curious why you think the Oilers need to be better than Colorado to win the Cup.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/updated-2023-stanley-cup-odds-avalanche-maple-leafs-lead-the-pack/
http://www.allthestuffIsaidyesterday.com
So you think the odds reflect Vegas’ confidence in the teams, rather than the best way to soak the bettors…..?
It’s so hard to go back to back everything fell into place for Tampa to win 2 in a row. If the Av’s lose Kadri that’s a bigger loss then most people think. Having a effective Kane brings a new element plus everyone got a taste of winning with the beat down of the Flames . I never envisioned Smith raising the cup but I do with Campbell whose going to pull a Billy Ranford the next 3 years.
Well they haven’t lost Kadri yet.
Kane was part of the team that got stomped 4-0 by Colorado and while Campbell is likely an upgrade on Smith, goalies are notoriously unpredictable.
Other than Campbell, this is essentially the same team that wasn’t;t good enough last season.
We’ll see.
I think we see a Oiler team rip through the regular season kinda like the Av’s did last year. I also see us getting the benifit of the doubt when it comes to Reffing the way Tampa and Colorado get the Zebra bounce.
I agree the Oilers are starting to get respect, and I agree that the NHL is a different place for those who are respected.
The gap isn’t massive. The series was 4-0 but the games were competitive. Smith was atrocious. Nurse was 30% at most.
If you flip a single fortune, like their #1 D injured and Nurse healthy, how does the series play out then?
Mackinnon winning his cup might dampen his hunger/willingness to take a discount on his extension. These things happen.
Saying Edmonton has their best chance to win a cup in 30 years is entirely reasonable to say. You know this, despite your penchant for being you.
Ya, Nurse and Leon were hurt (as were many others) and Burakovsky and Kadri were hurt (as were many others).
If both teams were at full healthy, the Avs likely still win in a walk – maybe not as much of a walk but there were the best team in the league and in the playoffs last season.
Now, I can’t say the Oilers have now passed the Avs, that’s not reasonable, however, I can say that the Oilers are improved – a very similar team plus a new tender that should give them more consistent play which is what they need. More than anything is, not just some progression from the likes of Bouch, McLeod, Holloway, etc., or having Kane and Kulak for a full season but is having Woody/Manson for a full season including camp.
The coaching staff being able to teach and implement for September should be massive.
While the Oilers look to have improved, the Avs look to have gotten worse with a downgrade in their goaltending and, for now, losing their 2C who had a career year. They were able to bring back Nichushkin and Manson but, my goodness, those contracts both look bad already and, Manson, well, he wasn’t very good for the Avs and with his age, regression and injury history, that could be a bad 2RD very soon.
If Colorado had a key injury to Makar, would they have swept? Unlikely. The point being, the margin isn’t massive. And it’s getting smaller.
If Edmonton had a key injury to McDavid, would they have even be competitive?
You can play that game forever and a day.
Saying they have their best chance to win a cup in 30 years is not saying much at at all given how bad they’ve been.
I don’t buy the injury stuff at all since virtually every cup finalist has a long list of injuries and Colorado had many.
The bottom line is the Oilers lost in 4 to a superior team and have done very little this offseason to improve other than a better bet on a goaltender.
You know better than this! I can’t wait until karma bites you!
it was a much closer series than you in your feeble mind can grasp! Fortunately for you, your age allows your mouth to write checks your ass could never cash!
4-0 is NOT a coin toss.
It’s called a SWEEP.
22G – 13G
Total domination.
Your dentures are rattling.
We will. The Oilers will be deeper next season – Bro with a season and Kulak are upgrades as I see it. Campbell and Skinner are. The last piece that would put them over is a better D zone D than Barrie but I bet they keep him
— meh: every cup team has a bunch of things fall their way. What Tampa had, and Colorado, Chicago, Pittsburg, Washington, Boston, Detroit etc have had as Cup winners is a long streak of being amongst the best teams in the league, led by a few superstars. Sure the year they won or a few years they had some luck.
— The better you are the more luck you create
This.
Sometimes you get dealt a straight flush 2nd deal in.
Sometimes…not often.
Jack’s going to stick it to Toronto and become a folk Hero out west. Move over King Richard Brodeur. Fun fact Richard was only 5 foot 7.
I won’t call the Oilers better (and Reja didn’t either), but Colorado has taken a significant step back.
The biggest thing is they hugely downgraded their goaltending (from a .921 to .898 starter).
They’re also probably going to lose their #3 forward and they did lose their #4 scoring forward.
The Oilers kept their two in-season adds and upgraded their goaltending.
Colorado kept it’s two in-season adds, most likely lost two key forwards, and downgraded their goaltending.
Whether or not they’ve passed them, there’s zero question the Oilers gained ground on the Avs this off season.
Knights and Nucks got stomped before the playoffs started, Kings then got stomped, Flames got stomped into the AHL by the looks of it.
Worth noting, You’re the owner of far too many embarrassing losses around here to dare ask anyone why they may believe the Oilers will be better then the Avalanche next season. If you haven’t been following along this offseason so far Holland and crew are stomping Joe and boys around the block.
Love the banter boys, but let’s keep it clean so that LT doesn’t have to lose precious time from his family to act as a moderator here.
Holland’s done everything he can to put the pieces in place for a Cup run over the next 3 years. Given the flat cap, the brutal organizational depth that he had when he arrived, some grotesque contracts and some rotten luck losing Klefbom, his overall body of work digging the organization out of that mess is strong, though not flawless. The biggest thing he’s done is deliver respectability to the franchise – two years in a row now, we’ve poached top UFA talent and mostly held on to our own. That’s a huge change from the Lowe years of getting spurned at the altar.
Woodcroft and Manson did a terrific job getting the Oilers to the Conference Finals, given the late season change and the condensed schedule that did not allow for much practice time. But the difference in execution was noticeable against the Avs … those guys played their system to perfection. The Oilers would have needed a healthy Nurse, Leon and Smith to have even kept it close … alas, they did not and they got badly beaten by the Avs … a team that had been under the same coach for years, and had a number of value contracts, all peaking at the perfect time.
Until proven otherwise, the Avs are the team to beat. On paper, the Oilers look to have closed the gap … while a lot still has to go right to dethrone the champs … there’s no other team in the West that legitimately has the pieces to do so other than the Oilers.
Have any of you ever spent extended time on another teams site debating adherents on the merits of another team? What a bizarre charade to play every day. This honestly seems pathological.
It’s always the bandwagon team with HH. VGK were supposed to crush the Pacific, no?. You always win with a pool of 31 of the 32 teams to choose from…. and not a single interesting piece of analysis comes forth…
Where did he say Oilers were better than Avs? He said he thinks they can win it all.
Jake Chiasson has been added to Canada’s Junior Team summer development camp.
that’s great news, will be good for him
I am extremely saddened to advise that Doug Mitchell passed away yesterday.
Doug was not only a former CFL player but he was a former commissioner of the CFL, a former member of the NHL’s board of governors, an inductee in to the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame and he received the Order of Canada and the Alberta Order of Excellence.
Doug was a colleague of mine – having articled at my firm many decades ago and he was a lifer – formerly the firm’s national co-chair and long-time managing partner of our Calgary office.
I didn’t know Doug well but he was inarguably a wonderful individual with passion for life, sport and the law. Right up and till Covid hit, I would see Doug roaming the halls of the firm daily, full of vigour in his early 80s.
Well that’s a sad bit of news. He was a real contributor to the CFL. Sorry to hear, and for the loss of your colleague.
Met Doug a few times while covering the CFL.
Class act.
Sounds like he truly lived a full life, something to aspire to.
RIP Doug
Nice tribute OP.
Over the years I had the occasion to sit at Doug’s table at “rubber” chicken dinner. He was alway gracious host. I am sadden to hear this news.
Wonder if Oilers are interested in Johan Larsson? Looks like a defensive talent
https://russianmachineneverbreaks.com/2022/07/21/johan-larsson-remains-free-agent-after-rumored-deal-with-pittsburgh-penguins-didnt-materialize/
Larsson would be perfect for the 4th line.
I think we’re in the third year of his name on this blog. WG has also championed him. I’m not sure why the parties didn’t connect before. Maybe he really wants to be in the US? Because he has to be, and must have been in the past, on the Oilers radar.
Live chat with DNB & Israel Fehr on the Athletic right now. First time listener, pretty cool forum!
Patrick Kane might be the best option for Calgary to replace Johnny….This would probably keep Tckathuck happy for another year.
I honestly hope Calgary doesn’t crumble…would love to see them thrive and just barely lose to us every year in the playoffs.
I enjoyed that series tremendously and would have liked another.
Thinking out loud, given the Cap Crunch, could Barrie be bought out and then be brought back on a $1,000,000 x 2 type of deal?
Buyout:
Year 1: $1,375,000
Year 2: $2,125,000
Year 3: $1,375,000
Year 4: $1,375,000
Thoughts?
1) Barrie could be traded for legit assets which could include a 3RD plus cap space
2) I think this would be an awful way to run a business thinking of future players wanting to come play for this management
3) Why would Barrie agree to this? He could get pretty damn close to $4MM on a new contract if bought out – why is he taking less money overall
4) No.
1) Name that player, I have tried that exercise ad nauseum….
2-4) He still makes his money and stays on the team, plus the team then has the cap space to pay enough good players….No?
With the Oilers luck they would get dinged next years first round draft choice for cap circumvention, because Oilers!
Spot on. Do we really want to be like Vegas?
Also, I think Barrie still provides a lot of value, his numbers under ManWood improved much.
If you’re buying out anyone, it’s Foegle, hate to say.
Nobody’s buying out Barrie except for the kids on PlayStation.
I agree with OP.
But most importantly…..You can’t resign a player you buy out in a year you bought them out.
Thank you.
On the last sentence, I’m not sure that’s true – the flames bought out Stone in August and re-signed him in Sept a few years back…. I think.
Correct
Michael Stone:
1 year remaining on a $3,500,000 deal for 2019-20
Bought out on 1 August 2019
Cleared waivers 2 August 2019
Signed on 11 September 2019
New deal:
$700,000 x 1 year
$700K contract for 2020-21 and a
$750K deal for 2021-22.
I remember Mike Stone. I also have read in other places about the restriction on signing a player that you recently bought out. Has there been any pertinent changes in the CBA that account for the discrepancy? Anyone know for sure?
Found it. On CapFriendly.
Compliance BuyoutDuring the buyout periods in 2013 and 2014, teams were permitted two compliance buyouts (also known as amnesty buyouts). The formula above is applied to determine the monetary amount paid to the player; however, they do not count against the cap.
Compliance buyouts were only permitted to be executed on a contract that was entered into on or before Sept. 15, 2012. They were also permitted to be performed on a 35-plus contract.
For one season following a compliance buyout, players were not permitted to rejoin the team which performed the buyout (this restriction does not exist for normal buyouts).
WaiversA player can only be bought out after clearing unconditional waivers. A waiver-claim by another team pre-empts the buyout process. If a player has a no-movement clause, the player can reject the option of waivers and proceed to the buyout process.
Well, yes, the compliance buyouts were a one time thing due to a major financial reset. Those were buyouts with zero cap implication and a much different scenario than the normal course buyout which comes with cap implication.
I was reading a news story today and I came across the word ‘throuple’ and was amazed to see this now established in the popular vernacular.
I did not know this word existed until a couple weeks back when my son and his somewhat disgusted and almost always judgemental girlfriend were telling me that they don’t see one of my son’s friends as much lately as he’s become involved in a throuple.
When I asked what that was, they explained that he’s in a consensual relationship with two women. In this particular variation of throupling, the young man has very occasional couplings with the woman he’s earmarked as the long term solution and very frequent couplings with the woman he’s earmarked as the short term solution, and allegedly each vertex in this triangle is ok with it. Presumably these would actually be called throuplings in this particular setting OR perhaps that verb only becomes pertinent when it’s a true ‘all hands on deck’ situation.
Hearing this gave me the most admiration that I’ve had for our younger generation for a very long time. 😂
Where’s the hockey angle here? It would seem to me if throupling becomes a thing you’re going to see 3 ‘linemates’ reaching true levels of chemistry simpatico. I’m talking outscoring on a whole other level. Imo these truly elite lines (ie the best of the best) could be categorized as throuples.
For example, with Gaudreau leaving, can Calgary retain Tkachuk AND find a suitable replacement in free agency to keep their throuple thriving? Enquiring minds want to know.
Kadri < Gaudreau
Johnny H was the little engine that could.
I don’t see another player available from the same universe, P. Kane aside….
*lol, “whine” was inserted in place of engine by autocorrect (I must have misspelled “engine”, I guess).
I’m super excited for this:
Ryan Holt
@CondorsHolty
·
14m
For
@EdmontonOilers
fans, the Condors will head to Calgary twice (Jan 8, Jan 10, Feb 2, Feb 3).
Sure, a great chance to see the Oilers top prospects. But more importantly, I need food recommendations!
So many options for food. If you’re downtown, Rodney’s Oyster House has a nice happy hour.
Yup, lots of good places to eat here in Calgary – I’ll eat before the game, as per allotted calorie intake – I’m excited for the hockey!
I already feel like I’m cheating on Holty a little bit…
I plan to go to these games, I agree, this is exciting!
If you like meat and cocktails, Hayden Block is my favorite.
Telus Club for dinner
LT, before you mentioned Fanti as the darkhorse guy, I was thinking Philp.
He was pretty much an afterthought for Chaulk but its tough coming to a new team late in the year with a set roster and lineup. He didn’t get a great opportunity in the games he played but, with a fresh start and a training camp, he’s got the skill set that the NHL team MAY require.
Depending on how the likes of Ryan, Shore, etc. perform, and their health, I could see Philp’s skill set as something Woody looks for.
Glad to hear you’re coming around.
😉
I think that Samorukov will make the team, not due to being waiver eligible, but on merit.
No offence to Niemelainen or Deharnais (or Koekkoek) but Sammy is the higher pedigree, higher ceiling and more NHL ready player. He was also arguably the Condors’ best d-man down the stretch – really stepped up after he was re-assigned as he moved up to the top pairing.
Many talk about Niemo and the truculence but lets not forget that Sammy is an aggresive defender – no he’s not the “hitter” that Niemo is but he is adept in the area and, more than anything, is a great zone entry denier (at least at the AHL level – and, prior, the junior level).
He’s also got 2-way skill.
Condors in Calgary Jan 8 & 10
Feb 2 & 3!
Yup, Vinny is in the conversation – Woody has made a specific point of bringiing him in to the conversation a couple of times and even Holland has mentioned him
He was a monster in the AHL this past season (really two seasons), a massive plus player in tough minutes. At the same time, that size and wingspan is something that can be massive at the AHL level but not enough to succeed at the NHL level without some “quicker feet and quicker puck skills” – he’s got a chance but he’s got some limitations as well.
One thing going for him, the only RD that is even in the conversation after the 3 opening night guys. I like Kesselring but he’s not there.
Yup, Broberg, Sammy and Kulak have pro experience playing their off side by Vinny has the right shot and has been relied on by Woody over the years.
Malone got an NHL contract and playoffs games mainly due to being “Woody’s guy” moreso than being “better” than some other options (i.e. Devon Shore) – Vinny may be similar.
He did start to struggle in his last dozen games or so. He certainly was on the ice for a lot more goals against at the end of the season and in the playoffs.
I would have agreed with Fanti if the org didn’t go what they needed to do and sign a legit 3G in Pickard.
I do recall, near the time of signing, there were a few accounts that Fanti is not far from being NHL ready.
I do not think the signing has received the recognition is deserves – far from a lock from an NHL career but definitely a prospect of note, and somewhat if a mature one….
They did a nice job getting the goalie stable in order this summer. Campbell is a solid starter at a good age/price and Skinner is a promising backup at a good age/price. Pickard is decent in the AAAA slot and gives us some coverage on Skinner. Fanti buys us some development years for free and the new Swede is draft and follow. Rodrigue is odd man out and will be sent to the ECHL after watching development camp. He needs to have one hell of a season to get another contract but I don’t think he has it in him. Nice to finally have someone with a clue in the drivers seat wrt goalies after decades of incompetence.
With the disbanding of the ISS, is there an opportunity for any new hires in to the org?
ISS hockey is shutting er down
Per Nugent-Bowman at The Athletic, Brad Holland wants to hire three new pro scouts: an old school scout, a woman with experience and fresh ideas and someone with video/analytics experience.
https://theathletic.com/3439158/2022/07/21/edmonton-oilers-jesse-puljujarvi-patrick-kane/
Disgusting, whatever happened to merit based hire. Sports and identity politics will eventually fail.
Can you show me on the dolly where equality hurt you?
I strongly suspect the reason that certain people don’t want a level playing field (pun intended), is that they secretly know that they aren’t good enough without certain advantages.
I guess the NBA teams should draft white players, you know diversity. Using woke philosophy.
Woke politics helps no one.
The NBA does draft white players.
It would be nice if we collectively had the maturity to be able to have conversations that didn’t descend into incivility. This thread is almost certainly going to be deleted, not because of censorship, but because of the number of comments that add nothing and provoke hostility from or take jabs at other users.
If everyone could please just make an attempt at being pleasant and actually contributing to a conversation, that would be swell.
Being afraid of your own shadow is no way to go through life.
In the 1960s, automobiles came under intensifying scrutiny for their safety features or lack-there-of with nearly 50,000 automobile-related deaths a year in the United States. In the 1970s, the standard crash test dummy was developed in order to help guide a new era of safety features. It came in two models, a standard size to simulate the proportions of a male, and a slightly smaller version to simulate a female. Airbags, seatbelts and other, less obvious safety features became far more common and automobile deaths plummeted, but an interesting and tragic trend was revealed. Women (when adjusted for incidence) outpaced men in motor vehicle deaths as cars became more and more safe.
The reason for this is because the (primarily male) engineering teams failed to take into account the differences in bone structure and fat distribution between men and women when designing the crash test dummies. As a result, vehicles were tested for the safety of men and women, they were tested for the safety of “the average man” and “the slightly smaller man”.
Only in 2011 were US automotive testing standards updated to include a true female test dummy. Even then, the test only requires that the female dummy be tested in the passenger seat. A sub-optimal decision for what should be obvious reasons.
Anyway, the point I’m making is that if by “woke politics” you mean “giving women (and other underrepresented groups) a voice in decision making roles”, then woke politics quite literally saves lives.
Hire the best person for the job and absolutely hire on merit, but I think it’s important to acknowledge that sometimes the best person for the job is the best person for the job because they offer (fresh) ideas that are rooted in their unique experiences and perspective (i.e. being a woman).
I have much more to say on this issue, but I don’t want to stray too far from the tenuous connection to hockey news.
I think targeting the hiring women for our front office is a phenomenal idea, and likely to yield excellent results as we dip into an underrepresented talent pool. Purely from a practical point of view, it reminds me of the LT’s (and others) work to try and identify player types that represent undervalued returns (i.e. drafting falling Russians in the early 2010s). It seems like half of all NHL players get a turn at managing or coaching, but as far as I can tell only a handful have had the same go from the women’s side.
It took 40+ years for the Oil to mitigate the biases of the OBC and they still don’t shy away from nepotism hires. I can’t envision them embracing a full on diversity hiring agenda anytime soon. This isn’t Al Davis’ Raiders.
The challenge with this is the data shows people hire people they like and subconsciously humans have been proven to ‘like’ people most like themselves, especially in a first impressions setting like a job interview. It’s not progressive. It’s instinctual and tribal and these are the most difficult neural behaviours to recognize and modify.
It’s easy to rail against this until you realize the sword cuts both ways. Men interviewing for jobs in female dominated cultures are pushing uphill just as the converse is true. Just look at the challenges Gaylord Focker faced as a male nurse!
Assuming that there are no women qualified for the job seems to be an expression of identity politics….. Or are you referring to the old school scout / video/analytics demographic….. 😉
Can we say affirmatively that he doesn’t have a candidate identified already? Seems pretty specific for a ‘quota’ hire.
LT noted earlier today, “This forum has long established that we are unable to handle these issues in a mature fashion.”
True, I’ll get banned from posting for saying hire the best candidate.
This isn’t what you implied with your opening post. You said “disgusting” and implied a woman only got a job because she is a woman.
Now you are back pedaling while either being naively unaware of the challenges faced by women and other marginalized people, or being willfully ignorant.
A meritocracy can only work if all things are equal. For that to happen, barriers must be broken down. And if that’s “woke”, then wake me up!
They are intentionally looking in a different pool of candidates to challenge groupthink. The person hired will still have to deliver.
There is a greater chance of finding a new or contrary input if one actually picks someone different to begin with.
You can’t tell which book presents a truly different view by simply judging its cover.
“Investing and trading” is all about probabilities. Similarly hiring.IOf
Hiring is an extremely challenging process. How many people should one interview before one should choose someone? One may lose your preferred candidate if one continues to interview more and more people.
If one is looking for an alternative candidate, does one want to start a time intensive process by leaving it open for everyone. If one leaves it open for everyone, then one limits the number of alternative candidates that one can interview.
There is a lot of game theory in hiring.
lf one is intentionally looking for an alternative candidate, then one shouldn’t waste your own or non-alternative candidates time.
In this case, one is looking for the best alternative candidate, someone with a non-standard CV, and one wants to maximize the number of those candidates one is interviewing.
It also expands the universe of potential future hires because one will become directly networked into this new pool.
The majority of hiring is network hiring. One is putting oneself at a disadvantage by not expanding the network of people one will have knowledge of via a network.
This I agree with
The other comments you made in this little string I would say to them that everything has to be in context
I don’t know what the numbers are currently but most people don’t work in jobs that actually have or need the level of sophistication you are referring to
People that actually need large ‘networks’ and/or require highly specialized really clever employees, are few in the workforce
People in sales, academia, higher level corporate managers? Politicians?
Most folks are blue collar or work in lower level retail/service, or are employed by the taxpayer. A lot of people in Canada are on the taxpayer’s payroll
As for hockey there hasn’t been anything much changed for ages. What has changed is analytics helped some see past long entrenched biases and to what actually makes the game tick
Of course the best managers intuitively do that, or by choice
I’m not sure there is a better way to scout that comes up with different options
It’s more that old school biases aren’t impairing decisions
The best NHL players can really skate, are skilled, are disciplined, are very fit, are not timid, and can bury a puck. And also for many have a good track record of health and consistency
When it doesn’t work out one or more of these traits are way off. For example Archie could get 10 goals as Holland mentioned, is fast and aggressive. But can’t finish or pass (skill) and isn’t disciplined (team system)
What can be dug up that is some unknown aspect to this, at this point in hockey? It’ s more about getting guys off their man crushes (Reinhart) and looking clearly at players, making sure they check enough boxes to be effective
Your actual words:
“Disgusting, whatever happened to merit based hire. Sports and identity politics will eventually fail.”
Are not the same as these ones:
“True, I’ll get banned from posting for saying hire the best candidate.”
Better:
“If the woman they want to hire is the best candidate then by all means hire her. I don’t care if she is a woman or not, hire the best”
Why bring the drama?
That’s the thing though “the best candidate” is entirely subjective based on who is doing the interview. If you and 50 other people interviewed 50 candidates, there is a good chance you 50 interviewers would disagree on who the best candidate is based on merit. Which means that the fact they hired her means they feel she is the best candidate.
It’s only you who is suggesting it’s due to other reasons even though you have zero clue who the other candidates are and how qualified they are.
Talk about finding a reason to get angry and emotional over something for no reason.
Sadly for some what equates to “truth” is based on fiction, propaganda and lies. ☹️
The truth is normally very easy to see, but some people don’t like or agree with what they see, so they “dig deeper” to find it, because it lines up with their attitudes of those things.
Beliefs do not = facts.
Beliefs often = bias.
I am stubborn, but I am aware that there are others who are smarter and more informed than me. I often seek them out.
They are easy to find and often very generous with their time.
Thank you Allan!
When did merit-based hiring ever exist LOL
True story: I worked somewhere where a manager was throwing out candidates resumes if he couldn’t pronounce their last name.
They were actually given diversity training and stopped doing that.
Livelihood was left intact.
All they lost was some of their ignorance.
I don’t know what to tell you, some people don’t realize they have biases until they are challenged about them and people are generally capable of changing.
Not everyone wears their ignorance proudly and hides behind winking emojis, “lolol”s, making vague threats about unknown people flying flags, etc.
I’ll have you know I’ve always hired the best friend or relative available!
Instead of having a knee jerk reaction born out of ignorance, there are numerous studies out there that show when you are looking for innovative or creative solutions, you should have a diverse group of individuals.
If you are talking about hiring someone for a job where they are not brought in to make creative decisions, then yes, it’s probably for the best to look for the best candidate for the job based on merit.
Stop letting people brainwash you into thinking this kind of thing is “identity politics”.
Who is “they”? Do you think LT works for the government or something?
For someone who gives the appearance of someone who fighting against some kind of oppression, you seem to be having a hard time articulate what you are even afraid of.
Or will you find out tonight on Fox News?
I like how you invented a whole complicated backstory to scare yourself.
It is always depressing to learn how many Qanon believers also read/follow lowetide.
#jetfuelcannotmeltsteelbeams #truther
If the woman they want to hire is the best candidate then by all means hire her. I don’t care if she is a woman or not, hire the best
Story time.
One of the professors in my department is a black woman from the U.S. south. She went to an alumni event about 5 years ago when finishing up in grad. school and an old retired professor came up to her and told her that he was there when her supervising professor was hired. At the time, this old guy didn’t want to hire him because he thought black people couldn’t be scientists. However, the department was pushed into going through with it as a diversity hire and this old retired professor says he now realizes he was wrong about black people.
Not the same situation as with the good ship Oil of course. However, the upside that resulted from it may be.
This hiring pushed through as a diversity hire made it much more likely for black students to go to graduate school at that department. This greatly expanded the student base and made that university a better research department overall. My colleague tells me that without seeing a faculty member from her social group visible on staff, she would not likely have chosen to go to graduate school. She would have just thought it wasn’t for her. And now my department is much better because we have her as a teacher and colleague. She wasn’t a diversity hire, but her being here is a result of the diversity hire process. Sometimes you need to start a crack in the wall for it to fall down naturally.
In academia, women weren’t allowed at all until the cracks formed. A few geniuses like Emily Noether (who had to help Einstein with some of his math for Relativity) or Canadian Maud Menten broke in and then more and more women followed through the cracks and now it’s much closer to parity. Imagine how much further along our world would be if 50% of the world’s population hadn’t been excluded from science until after the quantum age?
In a perfect world, yes, you would just hire the best person and everything would balance itself out. However, our world is far from perfect. There are lots of incredibly qualified women out there, maybe getting a few of them into the men-only world of hockey management will get the water flowing and we can double the talent pool available to the next generation. And anyway, the first few to get hired despite the barriers tend to be the Noethers and Mentens–geniuses who are so good you can barely keep them out–and I would like to steal them before anybody else does.
Go woke, go broke.
I love how Ottawa had their best draft/free agency ever after the Melnyk daughters took over.
I do not think conversation means what you think it means.
This is a hockey blog, full stop. Please desist from trying to hijack it to promote your personal and highly contentious beliefs. In the words of our good host in a similar situation, “Please refrain from posting anything on the subject, including links, your own opinion, or editorials you find on line. There are other forums better able to handle this subject, I encourage you to post there.”
If you’re looking for attention, look elsewhere. If you’re looking for a scrap, this ain’t the schoolyard.
I actually find the “old school scout” to be the weird one. Does he mean a scout with experience? A scout with an outdated way of doing things?
Actually the whole thing is odd. Why not just leave it at job descriptions, then go and hire your people.
The actual quote was that he wants an ‘old school bird dog’ by which I think he means someone who goes and sits in junior hockey arenas and watches prospects live.
The phrase used was “wants an old-school birddog”.
cool thread.
recap:
nuance
not hearing it
nuance
not hearing it
nuance
not hearing it…
Puljujarvi changes his pronoun to ‘bison.’
Diversity issue solved.
Oilogosphere explodes.
I wish I could delete the original post and the entire cesspool of a thread would disappear with it.
What a disappointing thing to read.
Lawyer judges others on their moral compass.
There’s something you don’t see everyday.
He’s a corporate lawyer.
He doesn’t have to visit clients like a, say, “Steve Smith” has to.
BoP/Hunter, come on.
OP does not need me to defend him and I take my shots at him from time to time but being a corporate lawyer does not mean he has no moral compass. As a matter of fact (and I know a bit about this as I hire a lot of corporate lawyers), I would not be happy if my lawyer did not point out any moral risks in a transaction. Especially in the time of ESG. Some would argue the lawyer only speaks to the legal issues, but a good lawyer seeks to protect you, or at least mitigate, all risks.
Ha ha just clowning around.
! No problem!
I know your securities/derivatives lawyer very very well and I can assure all he mitigates all risks, all!
He does!
I was posting for information re: the Oilers plans to expand pro scouting – not looking for an immature fight about, well, you read it.
Also, please with the “lawyers” and “moral compasses” – my post had nothing to do with my chosen profession and you don’t even know any of my thoughts or opinions on the bitch-fest topics that ensued – except that they were immature.
Maybe you could itemize all of your positions;
That way we can measure our “know how” of you.
Not wishing to stoke anything (which is why I replied to the OP and not any individuals talking about this), just to give people better tools to discuss this. The term “woke” is a negative evaluative term, like “murder.” We only call killers “murderers” if we mean their killing is bad. Similarly, people are only called “woke” when we believe their views are bad. I hope this doesn’t come across as talking down to anyone, in Canada, logic and rhetoric are not taught outside of universities, so it’s completely normal for people on both sides of any issue to struggle to make complicated ideas understood by people who disagree with them. Using descriptive language is usually a better way to reach someone who doesn’t already agree with you. If I just come out and call someone you like a “murderer,” your immediate sense of outrage makes it more difficult for you to objectively evaluate my argument, because that’s how human brains work. If I instead start by asking about whether a given killing is justified, I haven’t provoked that same kind of reaction, and my interlocuter has a better chance to be able to understand what I’m trying to say.
https://human.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Philosophy/Introduction_to_Logic_and_Critical_Thinking_(van_Cleave)/01%3A_Reconstructing_and_Analyzing_Arguments/1.11%3A_Evaluating_Language
I’m not trying to convince folks to agree with anything, just to share better tools for discussion.
Kane/McDavid/Puljujarvi
Hyman/Drai/Yamamoto
Holloway/Nuge/Hyman
Janmark/McLeod/Ryan
Benson/Shore
Nurse/Bouchard
Kulak/Barrie
Broberg/Ceci
Samorukov
Campbell
Skinner
I haven’t crunched numbers but if Yamamoto and Jesse come on at $6MM combined, that should be damn close to do-able.
Switch around those right wingers as you see fit.
Use Ryan as 4C and McLeod up the lineup as you see fit.
I know the Nurse/Ceci pair was a huge tough minutes pairing but, with Keith gone and Broberg in there, a big of sheltering is required and I think this balances the pairings a bit.
Of course, Nurse/Ceci can play lots of minutes together (and we can see how Broberg/Bouchard goes…..).
Double shifting Hyman is a good way to save money. 🙂
I agree that cloning Hyman would be a good idea.
Who is playing RW on the third line? The rest looks great!
Hyman probably stays on the right side and one of McLeod or Nuge move up to 2LW.
Regarding Deharnais and the rest of the crew… In Woodcroft and Mansun I trust.
Fanti is intriguing for sure, I too wonder about Rodrique, he’s looking a lot like Tyler Bunz to me…
Philp is so toolsy and is a 2 way player. My concerns are his fitness, his durability and he really didn’t play many shifts in the games he played. Generally in the handfuls of games he played, he only had 2 or 3 shifts per period, so he received very little TOI in Cali. And generally he was stapled to the bench for most of the 3rd period.
Due to some briefly perceived chemistry with skill that resulted in a playoff goal (he was on a mid-line shift change) he was given a few more at bats during a portion of a period. The team was trailing and I think he was on the ice for 3 shifts with skill players, but didn’t generate anything further.
I think he could surprise, but he is only slightly more physical than McLeod. Definitely will be an interesting storyline.
Really hoping Chaulk is a great developer.
it’s a big big deal. This new AHL coach.
Super important hire.
I hope they got it right
I am not convinced, but am hopeful. He was thrust into a situation to prove himself and was under pressure to win, so that did obscure things. Here’s hoping for the best!
Rodrigue isn’t trending well right now but I feel for the guy as, really, since he turned pro, with Covid, he hasn’t been able to stick in one spot and get real traction – he did a bit in Europe but then was recalled and was all over the place from the ECHL to the AHL to the taxi squad and yo-yoed all over the continent.
I think he should be a legit AHL back-up this year but, with Pickard and Fanti I would think he’s destined for full starters games in the ECHL.
Well he was a legit AHL backup for the full (half) season in 20-21, he was just quite poor in that role.
Yes, but that was his first year pro and, really, that should have been his full ECHL year….
I find the discussion on what the Flames should do next year interesting. Most of the hockey “experts” in the media seem to think that if they make a good trade with Tkachuk that they are still a competitive team. I’m surprised how few of these “experts” pick up on the fact that the Flames had significantly less man games lost to injury and Covid than all other playoff teams. In addition, they had 13(!!) players that had career years offensively, and a goalie that had a career year. Now maybe they believe that Sutter (who btw got outcoached by Woodcroft) can magically ensure that they have the same luck as last year on all these fronts and be competitive after losing their best two players, but I don’t buy that they will be anything more than on the fringe of the playoffs at best barring an unrealistic return on Tkachuk and someone else falling in their lap in free agency.
Edit: I think they should consider a rebuild rather than a retool.
This is bang on, I think. Cowtown’s in tough. Adding to the good points you made (relative lack of lost man games, insane # of career years), I think it’s going to be tough for the Shames to get full value from Turtlechuck. They’re trading from a position of weakness. Turtle’s said he wants out (weakness), and there’s only so many teams that can fit him in cap-wise (weakness), and I would suppose all of the Canadian teams are off the market (weakness). I mean, you can pull off a trade like this and win (see the Quebec Nordiques trade of Lindros), but you’re in tough. And of course, the poop cherry on the crap cake, the loss of (clearly) their best offensive play driver in Gudreau for zippo
Flames seem to have been riding percentages for years now. I was starting to think the data was flawed!
Re: trade value, Chucky is much closer to Weight than Lindros. Will be an underwhelming result for Flames fans
Not to mention the short time line to the arbitration hearing which will walk him to UFA status.
Of course, Tkachuk gets the last arb date…. more runway.
I take no pleasure in the situation the flames are in. Hockey is a lot more enjoyable with two strong teams in Alberta. That said, Lets Go Oilers!
I wasn’t saying I took pleasure in their situation (although if I’m being honest I do a little bit). I just think the pundits are off base in their assessment of the strength of their team and it may be time for a rebuild instead of likely incorrectly believing a retool is the better approach. Now it’s certainly likely that their arena situation and other business related considerations would preclude that, but I think it’s the right time for them to do it.
Further to what I wrote above, a lot of the media are incorrectly saying the Flames have almost $20 million in cap space so they can get a good return for Tkachuk as well as sign someone like Kadri. I quick look on Capfriendly makes it evident that after signing Mangiapane, Kylington and likely taking back $7-10 million in contracts on the Tkachuk deal they would only have $1-3 million left to sign 2-3 more bodies. To bring in a significant UFA piece they will need to find a taker for Lucic or Monahan (both possible but not a given).
What I enjoy most is when the northern team pounds the southern team into disarray.
Yeah, but if you just smash them down it’s not as fun. Remember that last playoff series? The first game the fanbase would have gone from ecstatic beyond words as they went up 6-0, then from disappointed to concerned to worried to terrified as the Oilers came back, then relieved and jubilant when they got the win. And then they had hope, and you can’t really be hurt as much when you don’t have hope.
Wow, that took kind of a dark turn there.
No other team is in the business of doing Calgary any favours. They are more than willing to bend them over a barrel now that they are in a corner. AS it always was, as it always shall be – regardless of the team.
It’s a dog eat dog business if you want to get all lovey dovey with your opposition you’ll be gone quicker than the babysitters boyfriend when you pull up.
I think the Flames are in a very bad situation — their NHL team is structured to win now, but they lost their top two offensive drivers in a single offseason getting very little in return.
They’ll try and maximize the return for Tkachuk, but any package is going to be futures-driven — draft picks and prospects, with an underperforming veteran on an expiring contract as a possible option. We don’t know where Tkachuk is willing to sign long-term, how limited that list is, and how many teams on that list have serious enough interest to make a viable offer.
So, they need to populate two thirds of their top line after the draft, after free agency opened, and after most if not all contending teams have largely solidified their rosters.
Add to this the low probability of getting through an NHL season without losing significant players to injury, or additional “career years” up and down their roster, and you’re looking at the worst possible position.
Improving to the point of serious contention isn’t feasible, while still being good enough to be hovering around wild card positioning.
I’m not sure they could compete with Arizona or Chicago for the bottom of the division if they tried. Seriously, where could they trade their valuable players even if they did hold a “fire sale”.
I mean, ouch.
Tkachuk provided a list of 4 teams he would like to be traded to.
That seems to indicate he would sign a deal with them if they were the trade destination.
The flames being 32nd in man games lost (and in importance of games lost) by a MASSIVE margin to even team 31 was discounted by some heading in to the playoffs.
The flames faced zero Covid/injury adversity last season and one injury in the playoffs (Tanev) proved too much to overcome to even compete with another good team.
They’re in for a world of hurt this year.
Well…
seeing how only the teams who draft in the top part of the draft ever seem to show up in the finals ahead of the game, there’s no point in trying to be merely “competitive”.
Flames live and die on the idea that once you reach the playoffs anything can happen and who better than 8th place winner Sutter to lead them to the proverbial dream land?
Catching up on some content and listening to Woodley from earlier in the year. He said that, for the first third of the season, Campbell was a legit Vezina goalie – he propped up a poor defensive team. He did crater mid season a bit.
I know that there was injury as part of that and he actually played with a broken rib for a bit.
For me, a key is Skinner. Yes, Jack is the number 1 but Woody will need to trust Skinner for a legit 30-35 games and allow Campbell to stay fresh and healthy.
I don’t think the Leafs trusted Mrazek last season and I think the Oilers will trust Skinner (unless he craters – which I don’t think will happen).
I expect good results from Campbell. My reticence to sign him was the cap hit versus going for an older, cheaper, short term solution and having enough money to upgrade the forwards or at least to sign the ones we have. I guess we will find out soon enough which guy gets moved.
Ya, I think we were aligned on this one. I wanted the one-year stop gap acquisition to see where Skinner trends and not commit to an external add for term.
I’m fine with the add, it could be a homerun and I am hopeful, but it wasn’t my preferred path forward and there is risk.
If Reimer was an Oiler, I’m not sure the risk would be that much lower and there would be less angst over the Yamo/JP contracts and fitting them in, right?
One time I was down on my belly after making the first stop. Two guys were battling over the puck and I reached my glove and blocker around one guy’s legs to smother it. I knew he was going to fall on me when I did it, but I didn’t know he weighed 240 lbs, and the seam on my chestie poked in between two of my ribs when he came down on me, tearing the interstitial tissue. Doc said that’s actually worse in some ways than a broken rib (pain, immobility and healing time) but obviously better in that your lung won’t get punctured by a shard of bone.
Anyways, lying down was really unpleasant, very sharp, stabbing pain, the kind every athlete learns to take seriously, as was sitting or standing up or rolling over, laughing, coughing or sneezing. Quick or strong motions with the arm on that side of the body aggravated the injury. It was really hard to get to sleep because I couldn’t get comfortable and every movement hurt, and my sleep wasn’t very restful when I could. F-, would not recommend. I didn’t even consider goaltending for months.
TLDR; I would expect even a “mild case” of broken rib to severely hinder a goaltender. Like, -.020 to save percentage or more. JMO
The names that intrigue me the most are Dylan Holloway , Noah Philp , Xavier Bourgault & James Hamblin . If any of these guys show up and prove to be capable of stepping in at the NHL level , that would give the team a boost . Plus I’m looking forward to seeing what Slater Koekkoek can give . he didn’t play much last season . But he’s a veteran NHL defenseman that can play either side . Don’t count him out , he may have something to prove . If he can fit in that 7th spot , he might be able to continue his NHL career , being UFA next season .
Are you suggesting Koekkoek still has some time left on the clock?
From accounts, Koekkoek is ready to play next year and will be at camp ready to compete.
I do think that Hamblin might tenacious himself in to some NHL games when injuries arise.
Ugh, that arb date for Jesse is soon – was hoping for a bit of a longer runway to get a contract agreed to.
I’m glad the date has been settled. It’s time to put this puppy to bed.
We could be surprised . Arbitration may not be good to Jesse . Probably work better for Yamamoto .
I think that Jesse’s case may get to arbitrations and Yamo likely settles prior like the vast majority of cases do. Only one case in the last two seasons actually went the full way, throught he hearing and to an award – Tyler Bertuzzi. I believe there was one other case where the hearing happened but they settled prior to the award.
I think Jesse’s situation is a bit unique, so it may go the full way – either way, I just want a deal done, preferably negotiated in the normal course, and the player in the lineup come October.
Yes, cap structuring will need to ensue – moving Foegele and slotting in Holloway and Janmark as 3/4 LW.
From Nugent-Bowman, Foegele is not seen as overpaid by the league – there isn’t a ton of cap space out there but he could likely be moved straight up – a nominal sweetener at the most.
JMO but I value Yams above JP (and I like JP). I seem to remember getting a ton of downvotes on Oilersnation last time his contract was up when I said I wanted to try to lock him in long term and would go as high as 3m if I had to. That said, I also really like Kailer stylistically and narratively, so I very likely overvalue the player.
Interesting from Nugent-Bowman in his piece at The Athletic that the NHLPA wanted Jesse’s case near the beginning to help “set the salaries”….
Well that bit sounds quite concerning, does it not?
yes
Also interesting that the NHLPA gets some say in what order players take arbitration in. That little detail never occurred to me.
I completely get why some people are ready to let JP sail on – his finishing is simply not NHL level and I’m not impressed with his decision making with the puck on his stick in the offensive zone. I also kinda wish he had a bit more cowbell, that said, I really believe that being big shouldn’t mean you have to also be mean in order to play hockey. I get “cowbell” and “meanness” aren’t the same thing, but hopefully you see what I’m trying to say. For sure, if I was Connor or Leon, I might have gotten pretty sick of wondering how he didn’t finish the tap-in du jour. If I’m the coach, I’m working like hell to convince them that the good things he does makes up for that, because I need their buy-in.
For me, he does a million things I value, very much like Yams for that matter. He disrupts breakouts like a mofo, is a nearly elite puck-retriever, wins lots of 50/50 battles, is very strong on the boards, uses his size to establish himself in the netfront well when appropriate, really helps maintain offensive possession of the puck, defends well without the puck, is rarely outmuscled… he’s a really good hockey player with one glaring weakness (finish), one moderate weakness (o-zone choices made w/ the puck on his stick) and one minor weakness (would it really kill you to throw a few more hits Jesse?). I think he’s a really good player, and I also think a clever skills coach might be able to help him improve his finishing.
I coach soccer teams, and I actually do separate drills for shooting and finishing. Shooting is about practicing the technique, finishing is about executing the technique while you are tired, rushed and outside of your comfort zone with a defender on you. With shooting drills I tell the kids “I don’t care if you shoot hard or hit the net, I care if you get the technique right.” With finishing drills I tell the kids “I don’t care how you shoot the ball, I care that you are pushed outside of your comfort zone and that you hit the net.”
Was Jesse’s ability to finish good enough prior to his season being disrupted with illness and injury, when he was 1G/60 (4th on the team) at 5 on 5 and 4th on the team overall (through 25 games)?
Sure, but he hasn’t played 25 games, he’s played 259 games. For me, that’s enough at-bats that we can start to surround who he is as a player. Guys who are elite goalscorers usually identify themselves pretty early in their careers. He probably wants the chance to be the guy everyone thought he would be on draft day, and will probably get a second opinion, but I think he’s going to have a long career as a middle 6 player who sometimes bats up the lineup due to injuries/hot streaks. He’s played a ton with McDavid and Draisaitl and his career shooting percentage is 9.1%, which is better than my memory said it was, but maybe not very good considering his opportunities. I really like JP’s game overall, he does a lot of things I value and I want him in my middle 6, I just think his lowest skill is finishing.
Who is going to outperform your RE?
Patrick Kane.
And maybe Philip Broberg
And of course McDrai. Nothing they do is reasonable, just otherworldly.
JP’s arb hearing is scheduled for July 29th
Yammo’s is scheduled for August 7th
Good that JP will be figured out soon.
Source: https://www.nhlpa.com/news/1-22350/2022-salary-arbitration-hearing-dates
That’s unlucky. Far better if it was the other way around.
You want to use a Yam signing on the JP camp if possible.
I’ve always wished that the NHL arbitrator was only allowed to pick one of 2 choices: Team proposal or Player proposal. I think that this method emphasizes reasonableness and limits either side from going too extreme, else such a proposal will not get chosen.
They’ve been there and done that. Neither the NHL, nor the NHLPA particularly liked it. That is why they moved away from it.
It unnecessarily alienates the relationship between the player and the team when one side is guaranteed to be hosed. It is a hard enough process as it is. It is better if each side feels a little bit bad, than one side feeling like they were screwed. They can blame the arbitrator, where as before they blamed the other side, and that typically led to a permanent rupture in the relationship.
Given that Yammo scored 20 this year, I’m not sure it would work that way.
JP has scored 14 and 15 goals in the last 2 seasons respectively.
NHL arbiters have a history of being very simplistic and ignoring even “goals/game”.
I bet the arbiter would award higher to Yammo than JP this year.
I doubt either get to that point though and are settled earlier.
I think you’re missing the strategy
Please feel free to enlighten me
I was in that post but when you reply a mere 30 secs after it blocks the edit
It can be another post
You tell the camps you’re signing them to matching contracts. You value them equally, no favorites. Neither has locked down a Top 6 role and both have been played up and down the Top 9 by the coaches.
Yams appears less disgruntled and easier to sign. More likely to listen to cap issues than Lehto. So you get a good number from him to pin JP’s camp to. If you have to you go public and let Oil Country and the NHL know you’ve offered JP the same deal and he won’t sign it.
Under the assumption that JP wants out, the offer to both camps is two years. Well, if you’re still unhappy, JP, you have FA glimmering at the end. Meanwhile, you’re using the two year term to get a better trade deal for JP than is currently out there now.
I think that assuming Yammo’s agent won’t work hard to get him paid for 20 goals is a big assumption.
JP Barry is a tough negotiator.
Hughes and Petterson spent time away from training camp while their deals were bing hammered out.
I think that skipping that step, which costs nothing to explore, is quite foolhardy. And we’re all guessing at the difficulty of all of these negotiations, relationships, understandings. And whether he’s working hard or not should be irrelevant to standing fast on matching contracts. I don’t see you having a case here.
Except Holland and Yamo’s agent could not agree on a two year deal last year. I don’t understand why anyone expects Yamo’s contract to be easier to get done than Jesse’s.
Pittsburgh avoids arbitration and signs with Kasperi Kapanen….2X$3.2 million.
This may be a template for Jesse’s arbitration…very similar counting numbers.
Kapanen has a higher points per game average over the past two seasons. His 20-21 season was 0.75 points per game, which boosts his two year average. Jesse should be right around the $3.0M per season mark. Yamamoto’s two year points per game average is even lower. He’ll be closer to the $2.75M mark.
3.2MM for 11 goals does not bode well to keep Yammo or JP’s number under 3.
And…you guessed it….Kapanen’s agent is none other than Mark Lehto.
Wait and see. Kapanen has scored almost 0.5 PPG in NHL to date, Jesse is at about 0.4… A little under three would not be unreasonable I think.
Kapanen also had just one RFA year left.
Jesse and Yamo both have three.
According to Puckpedia JP is ufa in ‘24
and Yamo ‘26
I mentioned that on twitter – not sure if the arbitrator is permitted to look at RFA vs. UFA years being bought with the contract though.
Very salient point on a two year deal
Yeah Kapanen is a career 0.47 pts/game player.
0.53 pts/game since he’s been a regular (4 seasons).
0.52 pts/game in the 2 seasons.
He’s got one 20 goal season and pro-rated 20 in 20-21 (when he also scored 0.75 pts/game).
Puljujarvi is a 0.38 pts/game career player.
0.51 pts/game in the 2 seasons.
He’s got one pro-rated 20 goal season (20-21).
Yamamoto is a career 0.51 pts/game player.
0.47 pts/game in the 2 seasons.
He’s got one 20 goal season.
Pretty similar numbers, but Kapanen has the edge over Yamamoto and Puljujarvi in recent (last 2) seasons as well as a longer track record at that level. As noted, his deal also buys one UFA and one RFA season, so it’s not apples to apples.
Objectively I think Puljujarvi and Yamamoto’s deals should be for less than $3.2 based on the Kapanen (n=1) comparable. No guarantees, but I think we can reasonably hope that ends up being the case.
Not sure that was ever a reasonable expectation.
Foegele makes $2.75 million and JP and Yamamoto play a more prominent role.
There are more comps where a UFA year wasn’t bought.
Pitlick just signed for 1.1M for eg.
Engvall signed his last RFA year for $2.25 with 15 goals, 20 assists 35 points.
That one might help.
Its too bad the arbitrator can’t take in to account quality of linemates – I looked at Engvall post-signing and he played like less than 50 minutes with any of the top 6 guys on the Leafs – he got those numbers in a pure bottom six role whereas both Jesse and Kailer played apx 80% of their minutes with at least one of McDavid or Drai.
Strome 1 year 3.5MM after 22g 26a 48pts
Frank Saravalli reporting Avalanche could be in on Paul Statsny if they can’t bring back Kadri.
Was back in Edmonton the past 3 days. A rare opportunity to hear LT’s “FM” voice on AM radio. Excellent interview along with Jamieson regarding Hockey Canada on Tuesday.
Really like the new 4 hour show.
Niederreiter joins our conference.
2x $4 to Nashville
good deal for the team
not the deal he was envisioning I’m sure.
anyways, one more off the free agents list. Waiting on Kadri and now Turtle
Nashville’s off season has been surprisingly productive. By my eye they have two very solid fwd lines.
McDonagh still has game too
they took one of the 8 playoff spots in our conference and didn’t get worse this off season
(although who knows which Duchene and Johansen will show up)
That’s a heck of a deal for Nashville. I would take Nino on my team especially the price they paid for him. I wonder why he didn’t get a better deal than 2 years at 4 mil per year.
Yes, he played the 4th most fW minutes for Carolina in the playoffs.
(More than Svechnikov)
Desharnais would be a fantastic story, but seems more in the Ryan Malone range than Ryan Mcleod for obvious reasons. If he muscles out a career on merit then that’s a huge credit to player and organization for having the patience and belief to keep pushing. Any organization should reward those types of guys.
Of course I’m rooting for him, and being a righty doesn’t hurt his chances at all.
I guess we’ll see if the boots are there come fall and how he fits in as the competition ramps up for preseason.
Make or break year for Sammy as an Oiler I think. Not on the player for getting injured but that’s alot of valuable development time to miss. Losing a player with 5 years invested in coming along to lose for nothing would suck, especially with the positive arrows he’s shown when healthy. It’s just business.
Very true. All the young D need to step up their game on the AHL. As we all know, there are injuries throughout the year.