Edmonton Oilers fans, at least the ones who closely follow prospects, are abuzz with the possible futures of Luca Munzenberger and Joel Matta. Great World Junior performances are so much fun, but then some nerd with five pens in his breast pocket walks in with a speech about small sample sizes he learned from the smart kids he hangs around with from time to time. Okay, that’s me, I’m the nerd, but the point stands. It IS fun to watch these prospects have success, and it is also a very small sample size.
We know these two men were drafted outside the first round and that means less certainty about their futures. What did we know about them, and others like them, on draft day?
THE ATHLETIC!
- Lowetide: Oilers have room for UFA contract or PTO. Is there a match?
- Lowetide: Oilers question marks as training camp nears
- Lowetide: Xavier Bourgault leads strong group of Oilers prospects graduating to pro hockey this fall
- Lowetide: Predicting Kailer Yamamoto’s Oilers goal total in 2022-23
- Lowetide: Where should the Oilers deploy Ryan Nugent-Hopkins?
- Lowetide: Oilers math shows 41 candidates for 23 (or fewer) jobs. Who could play where?
- Lowetide: Why did Oilers select Nikita Yevseyev at the 2022 NHL Draft?
- Lowetide: Jay Woodcroft is the right man at the right time in Edmonton
- Lowetide: Oilers’ expectations of Jack Campbell in his first Edmonton season
- Lowetide: Who will the Oilers trade for cap purposes?
- Lowetide: 5 Edmonton Oilers training camp surprises
- Lowetide: Edmonton Oilers star Connor McDavid and his Art Ross dominance
- Lowetide: Can Oilers’ Darnell Nurse live up to new contract?
- DNB: With Oilers roster intact, stars readying for next step
- Lowetide: 10 unsigned free agents who could help the Oilers in 2022-23
- Lowetide: What are reasonable expectations for the Oilers in 2022-23?
- Lowetide: Oilers’ Evan Bouchard is on the edge of stardom
- Lowetide: How many goals will Oilers winger Evander Kane score next season?
- Lowetide: Four Oilers defence prospects applying for one job. Who wins?
- DNB: Oilers depth chart: Where did they improve and where can they make more moves?
- Lowetide: For Oilers forward Dylan Holloway, the future may come early
- DNB: Oilers’ Brad Holland on AGM role, analytics, working with his dad: Q&A
- Lowetide: Oilers top-20 prospects, summer 2022
- DNB: First-round pick Reid Schaefer can bring ‘big-boy hockey’ to his hometown team
HARVEST MOON 2015
Drafted Connor McDavid. The team chose a young man who could be the best Oilers draft pick of my lifetime. Drafted Caleb Jones. ISS scout Phil Myre: “He is a good skater with good mobility. Not creative, he can make a good first pass.” Drafted Ethan Bear. Another player with size and speed from the blue and he also owns a hammer from the point that may be useful in the NHL someday. Bear can pass the puck very well too. I had him No. 38. Love this pick. Drafted John Marino. Kirk Luedeke: Solid, if not spectacular, all-around defenseman. Trains off-ice with Noah Hanifin. Set for Yale in 2016 and could return for senior year at Catholic Memorial, play another USPHL season, or play next for Chicago in the USHL.
The Cam Talbot addition was a major part of the weekend, really huge and based on Darcy McLeod’s work I think this can be judged as a clear win. The Martin Marincin trade was telegram Sam, we saw it forever. The Griffin Reinhart add (for me) is another addition to the prospect group, no more, no less. He’s miles better than Colten Teubert, but teams don’t trade No. 4 overall picks who are working out swell so let’s be real about it. I have said, and believe, it was an overpay.
Things worked out as expected, I do think overplaying Talbot led to much roster difficulty. It’s also true the scouts identified three productive defensemen in later rounds but all were sent away. There’s a tragic feel to this draft, it reminds me of the refrain of Frankie Valli’s “My Eyes Adored You”: “So close, so close and yet so far.”
HARVEST MOON 2016
The second draft under Peter Chiarelli and Bob Green proved varied and frustrating while emerging productive, with the organization adding significant skill on the wings and another giant helping of defenseman. I am surprised by only two things: The number of defense-first defensemen taken, and the order in which the players were chosen. We will delve further into this tomorrow morning when I post the Top 20 Prospects, but two of the five best selections this weekend came after the completion of Round 3. In Jesse Puljujarvi the team found a brilliant, fast train with two-way acumen is a tremendous addition to a forward group who often forget their lessons defensively. Tyler Benson is an agitating winger with two-way ability. Among the stay-at-home blue, Markus Niemelainen may be a little better passer than some of the other options. I would not have shopped there three times in nine picks and believe Edmonton left value on the board. I would suggest to you that Puljujarvi, Benson, Filip Berglund and Aapeli Rasanen are legitimate offensive prospects.
The organization will blame the player, and I don’t blame Ken Holland, but Puljujarvi’s handling in his entry deal is a must to avoid for all NHL teams. I’m delighted the team signed him, hope he scores 40. Benson has faded, those injuries and a lack of a shot that can beat the goalie caught up to him. Niemelainen took one forever but got there just in time and looks like he’ll have an NHL career. I expected there would be a straggler who came through, but it wasn’t Rasanen. Instead, giant defenseman Vincent Desharnais emerged from deep in the back row.
HARVEST MOON 2017
For me, the Oilers hit a home run in the first round (Kailer Yamamoto) and got terrific value in Ostap Safin. The Stuart Skinner selection has them excited, I see a .920SP from 2015-16 and maybe there’s a story there. Dmitri Samorukov and Kirill Maksimov have stories to tell and it will be fun to see if the positive trends continue. The National Team prospects have potential, that team is stacked with good players. A reasonable bet for this draft? Yamamoto has a successful NHL career and one of Skinner or Safin make the grade and hang around for a time.
This draft is highest highs (Yamamoto), solid middle (impressed by the Oilers belief in Skinner) and downbeat (Safin’s injury). This draft reminds me of the great Don Gibson’s song “Sea of Heartbreak” and the line “the lights in the harbour don’t shine for me.” Other teams have depth picks that work out, why did Safin have to get wrecked on the sea of heartbreak? Put another way, do you know the hope you have now for Carter Savoie, or Matvey Petrov? Well, that was Safin before the injury. Yamamoto was an inspired selection.
HARVEST MOON 2018
I think the Oilers decided the draft ended around number 70 and it was worth it to deal up and grab a third bona fide prospect. I can’t say it was a mistake, only time will tell. Evan Bouchard has the resume of a player who should be comfortable for a long time on this Oilers team, we’ll see about role but there are many jobs he appears to be qualified for down the line. Ryan McLeod is in that family of second rounders that includes Tyler Benson. Marco Roy, Tyler Pitlick, Anton Lander and Jeff Petry. Some work out just fine, some sail on. He’s got a chance. Olivier Rodrigue has a solid resume and the Oilers bought from the Q so they must really like him. The two kids at the end are distant bells. A reasonable bet for this draft? Evan Bouchard hangs around a long time and contributes in many ways, McLeod sees the NHL for a time and adjusts enough to have a career. Rodrique? Too many factors, ladies and men. I thought Steve Passmore was going to be a wonder and honestly have no recollection of Tim Thomas in the Oilers’ system. It was a fine weekend. Evan Bouchard is your lead, McLeod and Rodrigue below the fold. We’ll see.
This draft could be one of the best of the 2010’s, along with 2011, 2014 and 2015. Bouchard is on track for the career predicted, but McLeod has already exceeded expectations. One of the things I would change if I could? The tendency by people (and it’s human nature) to take credit for a player’s success. You will hear “I said at the time this guy was great and you numbnuts mocked me!” and I guess that makes folks feel good. For me, McLeod stepped beyond his scouting report, learned to play in the tough areas, developed himself offensively. That’s the impressive part, but we’re so busy patting ourselves on the back we miss it altogether. Damn shame. Leon Draisaitl is the ultimate example of this kind of progression.
HARVEST MOON 2019
Based on my observation of these Oilers over many years, I do think Ken Holland impacted this draft. I’m not suggesting the individual players were hand picked by him, but rather the draft landed in unusual places. Two KHL picks, a Swede (Philip Broberg) in the first round and no OHL, no WHL? I don’t think this is in line with traditional Oilers dogma. The success of this draft will ride on the first two selections. Oilers fans aren’t going to work up a massive lather over the final four picks if they don’t cash, but the top two men are vital to success. Broberg and Raphael Lavoie are keys, Bob Green said there were several players at in the second round they liked, but were happy to get Lavoie.
This draft should be called “Maybe I’m Amazed” because it is truly amazing how quickly it boiled down to the two names mentioned on draft day. Ilya Konovalov, Matej Blumel, Tomas Mazura and Maxim Denezkin all vanished as NHL prospects (well, Blumel didn’t but the Oilers failed to sign him). Broberg looks like he’s going to have a career, and possibly cover the bet, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Lavoie is a different story, he’s been a disappointment. At least it wasn’t due to injury, like Safin.
HARVEST MOON 2020
- What do you want to talk about? Ask me anything draft, I’ll answer.
- Thoughts on Tyler Wright? We’re way too early but I like his draft.
- You had Holloway mid 20s? Yes. I had Dawson Mercer, Mavrik Bourque and Connor Zary ahead of Holloway among others.
- Aren’t you outraged? No.
- Bastard! Call out inefficiency! Coward! I had Arthur Kaliyev in 2019, Oilers had Broberg. I had Ty Smith in 2018, Oilers took Evan Bouchard. In 2017 it was Eeli Tolvanen for me, Kailer Yamamoto for Edmonton.
- You’re saying it’s too soon? I’m saying there’s no obvious mistake. I enjoy telling you that I had Alex DeBrincat ahead of Tyler Benson, but will also tell you I had Sam Bennett ahead of Leon Draisaitl.
- Haha! Holy! That’s idiotic! It’s the draft. There are going to be hits and misses, but as long as a team is fishing in the right spots I don’t think there’s a reason to rip them.
- Still, inexcusable. I think that’s a credit to the Oilers scouts. If I’m Tyler Wright, one of the things I do is drill down on which of the scouts sent the team in the Draisaitl direction, the Bear direction, the Jones direction. Important to know your people and that process has probably barely begun due to the weird year of Covid.
- What would have been an obvious mistake in 2020? For me, I think Seth Jarvis would have been a player Edmonton could be criticized for passing on. He was chosen just ahead of Edmonton’s pick.
- What outrages you? Outrage is a strong word, but generally speaking I think any player chosen in the top 100 overall should have strong offense. If you’re drafting a shy forward, you’re basically wasting a pick.
- Recent example? For Edmonton it’s been some time now, but Travis Ewanyk in 2011 was a selection that is fair to criticize. He scored 16-11-27 in 72 WHL games in his draft season. The man chosen next, Blake Coleman, posted 34-58-92 in 59 USHL games. I think that’s an area the Oilers needed to improve, and have improved over these years.
- Who gets credit for the 2015 draft? Great question. Stu MacGregor was fired just ahead of the draft but one wonders if Chiarelli took over the list. McDavid was an obvious choice, I think Bear was a typical (if inspired) Edmonton selection, but John Marino was a deep pull and maybe Chiarelli chose from his own viewings at times. MacGregor should get credit, don’t know how much.
- Most inspired choice of the decade? Draisaitl.
- Who was responsible? Well, I believe you have to give some credit to Craig MacTavish, he was very aggressive in his two drafts (2013 and 2014). Not always right, in fact the back half of 2014 was like Spinal Tap at the Army base. WHL scouts at that time were (as far as I can tell) Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Jim Crosson, Bob Brown. I also think Michael Parkatti was passing along input during the MacTavish years and the general manager mentioned analytics several times in those months.
- Anyone else? Tyler Dellow was also involved at some point, don’t know if he had anything to do with the draft. Personally, I do credit him with helping avoid Logan Stanley, who had Oiler written all over him. That’s a guess.
- Is there a curio in the last five years that has stayed with you? Yes. The 2016 third round. Three defensemen seemed like overkill at the time, especially at a time when Edmonton didn’t have myriad prospects at center or on the wings. I don’t think it’s wise to pluck that many players in a round at one position, especially when two of them are from lower leagues.
- Do you have a favourite draft pick from 2020? I think Carter Savoie could be a home run.
- Other years? I’m a big believer in Raphael Lavoie (2019), Evan Bouchard (2018), Kailer Yamamoto (2017) and both Jesse Puljujarvi and Tyler Benson (2016).
- Who has surprised you in a good way in 2020-21? Holloway. Just two games but he looked fantastic. I am also on the Ilya Konovalov train.
- What’s the weirdest current draft fact about the Oilers? Haven’t chosen a WHL player since Stuart Skinner in 2017.
HARVEST MOON 2021
Every draft has a feel, a first blush, that sometimes follows through over the years. My initial reaction to the 2008 draft was that Jordan Eberle was a lock for an NHL career and that Teemu Hartikainen was the only other man in the group with a chance, and his heavy boots were going to travel with him. That first impression has held true every day since. The 2021 draft feels like two drafts in one to this observer. Three picks (Xavier Bourgault, Jake Chiasson and Matvey Petrov) are classic NHL picks, players who could turn pro in a couple of years and be NHL-ready any time after the end of their draft plus two season. The three other selections, Luca Munzenberger, Shane Lachance and Maximus Wanner, appear to me as something close to ‘draft and follow’ picks. What do I mean by that? Well, I think the Oilers see something in each of these men, but what we see today doesn’t line up with things we associate with a typical selection. Munzenberger had a big WJ’s, Lachance spiked during the year and Wanner impressed in very few games. That’s how I see it. I have no quarrel with either strategy. I’m encouraged that the Oilers shopped the world. I have no idea if anyone beyond the first-round selection will play in the NHL someday, but after the 2020 draft (itself with a couple of draft and follows) I’m willing to see how this plays out.
HARVEST MOON 2022
Each draft has a specific feel to it, and as soon as a draft is done I cast about looking for any back pages that rhyme. I found a somewhat similar draft in 2006, the year Edmonton dealt its first-round pick and had just five selections overall. Beyond that the resemblances are minor and distant. It was an eventful draft, but a trade and a retirement overwhelmed the young picks by some margin. It’s important to realize what just happened with the Edmonton Oilers organization.
There are several important developments to remember. The Duncan Keith retirement and Zack Kassian trade are huge developments. We can discuss the wisdom of procuring both men, and that has been debated in the town square for some time, but the overriding news is that the Oilers currently own around $20 million in room (cap and LTIR) to sign RFA’s and free agents. Needs are greater now, I count starting goalie, Evander Kane or similar, second pair LH defense and a right winger, plus you’ll need some of the skaters to bring a physical element.
My takeaway from the 2022 draft? The Oilers got a “middle six” winger very late in the first round, a man with a chance to play with skill as a pro, perhaps with one of the elite centers. His first half last season, his first full year in the WHL, saw Reid Schaefer score 14-10-24 in the first 33 games, and 18-16-34 in his final 33 games. I believe this is a solid prospect and appropriate value for the No. 32 selection. He has a great chance to continue what is becoming a solid list of young Oilers who arrived with draft picks outside the top 15 overall. This is Tyler Wright’s third draft as director of scouting with the Oilers, and he and the scouting staff have delivered an impressive group of forwards. Most are pure skill players, Schaefer has range in areas the rest of the prospects dare not tread. I like the pick, and that’s the only one we can grade today. If he’s Nick Paul in five years? Music!
LOWETIDE AND JAMIESON
Travis Yost from tsn will pop in to talk about the Oilers changes at goaltending this year, and we’ll continue our tour through NFL training camps. A discussion of the shocking loss by Team USA at the World Juniors, too. 10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!
At face value, Treviling has turned a disaster offseason into a job-saved situation.
I’m not sure going all-in right now with term on two 30-year-olds is an intelligent decision. They are framing their do-or-die window across the next 4 seasons, and sit probably the 4th or 5th best team in their conference.
I find it interesting that everyone is basically writing off Monahan … sounds like he’s close to being healthy again, after playing the past couple of seasons with injuries that required surgical correction.
It would be delicious if the 27 year former first line centre the Flames spent a first round pick to send away outscores the guy that they signed with his cap space.
Team continuity is important for successful teams … it’ll take Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar a while to learn Calgary’s systems. Problem is that they’re being counted on to play major minutes next season.
After winning a Stanley and cashing in with a nice retirement deal … will Kadri still have that edge to his game? Will Huberdeau be able or willing to play Sutter hockey, after signing a nice new fat contract after years of being underpaid (relative to his peers)? Is Weegar any good when he’s not playing with Ekblad? Can the Falmes have another season that defies the odds in terms of players in their lineup staying healthy.
I’m not worried about the Falmes … the Oilers are coming back with the band intact after making the conference finals. They improved the one perceived weakness that they had from a season ago in goal. They get a whole training camp to fully implement Woody’s systems, when they previously had to learn things on the fly without much practice time last season.
The moves that the Falmes have made will ensure that they will be just competitive enough to provide a useful foil for our boys to sharpen their teeth … instead of bottoming out and having a shot at Connor Bedard.
Agreed on Monahan. He says he is healthy for the first time in years but I suspect Sutter didn’t want him as badly as he wanted Kadri who he sees as more his style of player.
One thing that’s maybe not being talked about enough is the breaking up of that top line.
We know the players have been shuffled and somewhat replaced, but looking last night, Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk were truly dominant together. Like generational and then some, without exaggeration.
For context, no forward since Gretzky in 1986-87 has had a better +/- than either member of the Flames 1st line did last year.
The line can truly be called the best in 35 years, and deserves to be in the conversation for the best since 1967 expansion at minimum
Anyway, that’s gone now. I don’t think Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk would have been able to replicate quite those results even if they’d remained, but it’s virtually impossible that the Flames will have a + 60 line this season even if they’ve sort of replaced Gaudreau and Tkachuk’s point production.
I generally agree the team is likely to be weaker this year, but we need to wait to see how they gel. It’s possible they don’t miss a beat, but more likely IMO they find themselves in the mushy middle of playoff team but not contender.
Guess that’s almost exactly what you said but with slightly different reasoning. 🙂
And yes, it would be delicious if Monahan rebounded in Montreal.
What is scaring me at the moment, is Calgary has about 2.5 mil in cap space… they could be looking at PKane as a deadline add/rental and not need retained salary to do so…
I wouldn’t be happy with that outcome at all.
Oops.my bad, my imagination got the worst of me there. Flames have 2.1 mil in cap hit but only 21 players signed -so 2 players at league minimum or thereabouts uses most of that, so no danger I think.
Kane carries a $10.5M cap hit, retained salary would be needed even if Lucic and his cap his were to miraculously evaporate.
Flames lost 2 of their best players and brought in another 2 best players.
I mean, thats pretty impressive all things considered. At least the GM is playing their window.
Three.
Whither the Islanders after the Kadri signing.
https://nypost.com/2022/08/18/islanders-nazem-kadri-miss-leaves-a-lot-of-maybes/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
I Have no idea what Lou is doing there but I’m guessing this is Barzal last season
It puzzles me as well. I wonder if Lou thought he had a deal and Kadri changed his mind.
I think he did.
But Kadri got tired of waiting.
There is some chatter that he is still in on JT Miller but the longer this goes on, the more leverage the Canucks have.
I’m glad the Flames ended up with Kadri instead of J.T Miller.
Tre was dealt a bad hand and came out in a very good space. I like a competitive BoA!
I like it too. The Kadri and Kane rematch will by itself be worth the price of admission
they may even have a better regular season team too, but don’t see them being able to stop Mcdavid and Drai in playoffs
As long as we beat them in the Playoffs if we end up playing them. I believe the series is 5-1 all-time. Flames fans partying like it’s 1999 tonight yet Kadri, Huber or Weeger haven’t played a single game yet. Sutter likes his Veterans and the Flames got old in a hurry especially up front. The one problem with a aging team is the injury bug. The pendulum always swings back sooner or later.
I like the Flames to be competitive enough to offer Oilers a good series.
No worries ever about the eventual outcome!
How many years of his career has the soon to be 32 year old been worth a cap hit of $7MM? 1?
I guess 3 if 30 goals and 55-60 points is worth $7M – of curse, doing that at 26-27 and 32 plus are different unless you are Pavelski.
https://twitter.com/domluszczyszyn/status/1560316758820634624?s=21&t=8d9elgmhzYA7BmE5eGI_sQ
lets just say not many
1 elite year, 1 very good year, 2 middle 6 years and 3 replacement level years
Kadri never has been elite and certainly never will be.
2 good years, 2 mediocre and 3 garbage.
Kadri has been used as a utility player a bit like Nuge. Toronto used him as a shutdown center against McDavid. Pretty sure the offense numbers don’t tell the full story. I think he’s a decent bet.
Honestly, even that seems pretty optimistic.
Kadri/Huberdeau will certainly improve the Flames to a high degree over having no one to replace the Gudreau mafia.
Yes, he will help the flames, and I’ve stated that – they are a better team right now than 24 hours ago.
Dunch Keith helped the Oilers – doesn’t mean that $5.5MM was a good idea or that he was value.
To OP since you asked earlier
https://twitter.com/jfreshhockey/status/1560317100127911936?s=21&t=8d9elgmhzYA7BmE5eGI_sQ
Thank you. I see its passes to the point that’s mentioned (I was thinking passes back to the D moving the puck up the ice).
Dean Brown
@PxPOttawa
Kyle Turris has retired from the NHL as a player.
Just heard he was hired as a player development coach but didn’t catch where.
Development coach for the BCHL’s Coquitlam Express.
Copied from twitter. Has anybody heard Stauffer today to confirm?
======================
Gene Principe was the first to drop the Neal for Lucic bomb now he’s saying Patrick Kane is plan A. Not only is Gene the goat at making jokes he’s now the goat for Oilers news.
Gene Principe said on Oilers Now that while talking to Bob Stauffer tha, “Patrick Kane is plan one and Phil Kessel is plan two” for the Edmonton Oilers.
Gene continued by saying Phil Kessel would score 35 goals with any Oilers center. (McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH). Implied RNH is still the 3rd line center next year.
Just listened to Stauffer and the tweets are wrong. Kane & Kessel are discussed but there is no indication that it insider info so my apology for the post.
I wonder if Kessel likes flapjacks.
Flames have cap room.
More like cow patties.
Maybe another 7 year deal?
Eric Engels
@EricEngels
·
5m
Kent Hughes says news on Carey Price’s knee is discouraging. Don’t expect him available at start of the season. Possibly won’t be able to return at all this season.
At 35 years old this has to be pretty much the end
Per tsn.ca:
The Calgary Flames have traded Sean Monahan and a 2025 conditional first-round pick to the Montreal Canadiens in exchange for future considerations, it was announced Thursday.
The Calgary Flames have signed forward Nazem Kadri to a seven-year, $49 million deal, the team officially announced Thursday evening.
Calgary also got Florida’s 2025 1st in the earlier trade re Tkachuk, so came out close to even draft pick wise. Avoided giving up a first in next year’s strong draft. Better for them than I thought it would be.
So the trade of Tkachuk to Florida is now effectively for Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar.
That a tidy bit of business.
Kadri was free for only money and you managed to pay a first for the chance to sign him to a regrettable contract
how is that a win?
Moving Monahan was critical to signing Kadri and required the 1st round pick Florida sent to the Flames.
They’re all related and, unless you think Monahan still has value at a $6.25 cap hit, it’s a clear win.
Now we await news on Lucic who I might remind you, the Oilers are still paying through the trade for Neal.
I assume this means Monahan is expected to play this coming season?
Because if that is the case Montreal looks to have some cap clearing of their own to take care of.
Looks like Price won’t be playing based on reports today.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if Monahan never suits up for Montreal.
The reason I ask is because if Monahan can’t play this coming season did Treliving just trade a 1st to avoid going into LTIR for the season or are you suggesting Montreal is going to flip him somehow?
He may retire after getting surgery on both hips.
And walk away from $6.375M? That’s a bit of a stretch.
That would depend on whether to contract was insured.
Dont know.
I don’t think the player gets the money with a team insured contract if he retires.
No one retires when they can LTIR. It makes no sense
Monahan is expecting to be healthy enough to play apparently.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canadiens-complete-deal-to-acquire-sean-monahan-from-flames/
1st round pick for a LTIR??
that’s usually a meh pick
Until you look at cap hits and contact lengths! Good for three years and then not so much.
Yeah…those contracts for Nuge and Hyman are guaranteed to be killers😀
Keep trying to console yourself.
I’m fine thanks.
The Flames arguably have the best D in the league, an elite goaltender, and 3 high end two way centres.
Remains to be seen if they’re done but there is potential to add a high end goal scorer in their top 6.
Should be fun.
Careful now. Your desperation is showing
Best D in the league huh?
what did you do to that team who’s defense you talked about every single freaking day
Colorado is the gold standard but with Weegar, the Flames are close and all their D are on extreme value contracts.
Subtract Gubranson and add Weegar to the defence that lost in 5 games to the Oilers… yeah best D in the league haha!
Kadri has no MacKinnon and Huberdeau has no Barkov to play behind. Florida and the Av’s were balls to the wall when it came to offensive tactics and style. I do think Calgary will have a good PP with Huber and Kadri but the 5 on 5 will not match the magic Tkachuk Lindholm and Johnny had.
There’s more involved than that.
While the Flames first line is weaker the second line is much stronger with a Kadri at C and Backlund moves to 3C.
Kadri and Backlund have been known to disappear for long stretches of a 82 game Schedule.
Versus McD, Drai and RNH at center. I’m okay with that.
Sutter’s approach would likely be to play the top 6 to a draw and kill them with an elite 3rd line, superior D and Markstrom over Campbell.
I have to admit I am not seeing this elite 3rd line you are talking about. In fact it looks pretty pedestrian to me.
Do you see the flames top two lines sawing off the Oilers top 2 lines? I’m sure Kane/McDavid and Nuge/Drai will let that happen, lol.
–
Appears to be shaping up as Lucic-Backlund-Dube.
They would cost almost $13M…
Yup. Hard to see that as elite.
Top 6 to a draw?? That’s comical.
Sutter can try whatever he wants, it won’t make a difference. This “superior” D (minus Gubranson, plus Weegar) and Markstrom lost to the Oilers in 5, or have you forgotten already? Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Back to running your mouth when just a few months ago you were no where to found.
Yea, because Markstrom did such a good job “killing” the Oilers in the playoffs right???
OH, WAIT… he literally looked like he had Koskinen’s glove hand transplanted onto his arm. LMFAO! (buddy, you crack me up)
I don’t think Tkachuk was that good. It will be interesting to see who he plays with and how he plays in Florida. He’s got a good shot, good hands, and good instincts, but is pretty slow and streaky. Sometimes he’s just not in the mood, and that kind of player becomes more and more “not in the mood” as the years go by.
Johnny is the big loss. He’s irreplaceable. If the Flames think they have got it all sorted by bringing in Huberdeau or Kadri or both for that matter, they are badly mistaken. All the offence came through Gaudreau. He is a magician with the puck and one of the most creative players I have ever seen. He makes so much space for his teammates. It’s a huge loss for them. I can’t stand the Flames, but I can’t help but be a fan of Johnny Gaudreau. I’ll miss seeing him as often as we got to.
The Flames were overachievers last year who rode multiple players that had career highs and had few injuries. They acquired Huberdeau and Kadri coming off of career highs which were outliers compared to their usual production in previous years.
Now they are a team with significantly different chemistry under a coach who players seem to either love or hate.
Treliving is making moves because his job depends on it but ultimately, I don’t think they are significant enough moves to push Calgary through Edmonton or Colorado in the playoffs.
I don’t think they are significant enough moves to push Calgary through Edmonton or Colorado in the playoffs.
================
I don’t think so either but Calgary is not the laughing stock they were a few weeks ago either. For me the wild card is Sutter. As you say players tend to love him or hate him and it isn’t just the new guys.
He should be good as long as they are winning but I don’t think losing and loving Sutter is a thing that lasts very long.
Sutter is definitely a wild card.
After game 3 or 4 against the Oilers, it’s hard for me to forget how he was giving his post game interview talking about how you can’t stop McDavid or Draisaitl, and then Tkachuk came out after saying they all had to find a way to stop McDavid and Draisaitl.
Very large disconnect there between Sutter and Tkachuk at a time when their season is on the line.
Woodcroft took Sutter to the woodshed.
No adjustments from the Flames the whole series. Just “Sutter” hockey – except the oilers made adjustments on how they matched up and took the Flames down.
Also appears Schwartz had some good intel on Markstrom.
Yup. To me Sutter is the perfect HC for an under performing team with bad habits.
Sign him for two years and thank him for his service.
Sutter is now a 2X cup winning savant.
His words of wisdom ring true. Even when it disses his own team in the middle of a playoff series.
If Sutter was a food product he is just reaching his best before date,😉
😉 That’s funny because it is kind of true.
Yup. In terms of playing the hand you’re dealt, CGY played this one well enough.
Yeah the Flames were poised for big time regression.
With this series of offseason moves they have definitely reversed that likelihood.
They look like a team to be taken seriously this year for sure. Not sure if they have the ability to be a Cup team though, and their window has been significantly shortened.
2-3 years before that team is washed up. The majority of the core is 30+ now.
Wait until injuries regress to the meat
test
Who is going to score goals in Calgary? Where is the finish going to come from? Markstrom is not Quick. LA (under Sutter) only needed to get to two goals. The Flames will have to get to three.
Huberdeau and Kadri can replace 80% of the assists, but probably only 60% of the goals.
LIndholm scored 42 last season and Mangiapane scored 35.
The latter scored 35 often playing 3rd line minutes and he’ll get bumped up.
Toffoli scored at a 25 goal pace after coming over from the Habs and will also get top 6 minutes now.
Arguably, Lindholm and Mangiapane are near peak Lindholm and peak Mangiapane. I doubt there is another level up for either goal wise. Toffoli is past his best before date. They are losing 40 goals or so in their personel changes.
Toffoli is the same age as Hyman so I guess they are both worn out potato sacks.
Worth noting, Toffoli scored 28 goals in only 52 games in Montreal before the wheels came off the Habs bus.
Hyman scored 15 goals in that same season.
It’s worth noting that Toffoli didn’t score as well on Calgary, when the wheels were on the bus and even with everyone else around him overachieving.
The latter scored 35 often playing 3rd line minutes and he’ll get bumped up.
Well that’s either a lie or you just don’t know how to use any stats sites. lol
Well…how about this one…good enough for you?
https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/andrew-mangiapane
How about this one (that actually tracks that stuff):
https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8478233
Most common linemates: Backlund (586 min), Coleman….
(large gap)…
Tofolli, Dube, Monahan (117 min)…
Looks like 3rd line to me..
That just proves he played second line for essentially the entire season.
So I guess we go with lying.
Taffoli I’m sure they think can get 27- 30 but he sure didn’t look good down the stretch. Magpie had what I believe was a career year with 35 Goals I think he’s more of a 25-30 Goal scorer. Coleman only had 16 last year and I’m sure they expect him to score 20 plus. I’m glad we got Hyman who gets so many red light chances that his stone hands are better than Coleman”s who’s so daft that he tells everyone he kicked it in but it should of still counted.
Fun thing about Kadri is he just had his career year. By like, a lot.
87 points for the Cup winners at age 31, but never more than 61 before that.
If you look at the 3 years prior to his career year, he had 112 points, total (180 games).
Never mind McDavid and Draisaitl, Kane outscored him by 40 points. Nuge outscored him by 50+. Barrie by more than 30 points. Hyman was 1 point back in fewer games. Nurse had only 2 fewer points than Kadri.
Anyway, he’s a very good player, he helps the Flames in the short term, they remain a strong team. But Kadri won’t be the player he was for Colorado at any point in his $7Mx7 years deal with Calgary.
He has had highest pass back rate to the D in the league and no longer has Makar. Gonna have a big drop in production
The Oilers are arguably better, the Flames arguably about the same, and the Avalanche are arguably slightly weaker, and the Kings have a thoroughly mediocre coach.
And St. Louis, Minnesota, Dallas, and Nashville. Plus Vancouver and Winnipeg trying to hang with the pack.
The Avalanche being weaker in the last year before MacKinnon’s salary resets is a small win for the Oilers. Peak Avalanche was last year.
There is plenty of parity. Just like the NFL. It depends if your best players show up in the playoffs. Brady, 10 superbowls in 20 years, 7 wins 3 losses.
The Oilers are poised to be better this year, better next year, and better the year after that. It looks to be a pretty solid three year window.
The wildcard is who gets PKane. That move could upset the relative parity.
Generally agree but would quibble with the Avalanche being ‘arguably slightly weaker’.
IMO they are inarguably clearly weaker (which is not to say other teams have passed them necessarily).
Kane to the Avs would be terrifying.
Kane 2.0 to the Oilers would be Kane getting the opportunity to join a very select bunch of multiple cup winning players.
Make it happen, Mr Potato chip.
As an objective Oilers fan, I don’t see how anyone can like this signing, and I think Oilers fans need to remain humble.
Anything that makes the Flames better at any point in time is not good for the Oilers. The only advantage is that it makes the Avs weaker.
After having read more about the player type and the cap, I am less convinced Huberdeau’s contract will be a boat anchor in the long-term. Kadri makes the Flames a tougher out for the next 3 years, which are the only years we are guaranteed to have the dynamic duo. So despite the later years, the early years are a bit of a concern. He’s not as good as Tkachuk, but he is a center. 2nd line projections of Kadri with Coleman and Toffoli do not scare me, but a 1st line of Mangiapane, Huberdeau and Lindholm will be formidable.
At this point, hoping for further growth from the 3 RFA forwards, and more importantly from Bouch and Broberg, may be the difference in a playoff series. That and Campbell being the better goalie – with the Oilers continuing to completely own Markstrom, this is actually quite plausible.
Yup. People rejoicing about what the Flames will be like four years from now are looking in the wrong place.
That depends on what you think the repetition rate of a 31 year old career year is. Kadri has the highest pass back rate to D in the league which is great when you got Makar but no more Makar
While Huberdeau does replace Gaudreau offense he does not play in his own end and ends up giving most of what he creates.
weeger should be a good add.
I don’t think they can go another season with no injuries though
They are treading water which is a good place to be given what happened.
But the Oilers got better
Whoa, great stat. May I ask where you got that?
He doesn’t replace his 5 on 5 offence (but should help their PP).
Those same people concern themselves about the medium and long term implication of moves the Oilers’ organization make and don’t only concern themselves about immediate impact.
Why would it be different when analyzing moves made by other orgs?
This is reasonable.
Folks have to realize that Draisaitl will be 30 when his next contract kicks in…what is that going to look like?
And none of the Flames contracts approach the $9.25 million X 8 that Nurse will be paid much of it past his prime.
Also most are downplaying the Flames acquisition of Weeger.
He makes their D easily the class of the Pacific division and one of the best league wide and most are on extreme value deals.
Elite players like Draisatl tend to have a much smoother ageing curve
It’s totally unpredictable and often depends on accumulated injuries.
However, aging curves are not kind to most.
But guaranteed to be kind to 32 year old small physical types though??
When the Oilers sign the likes of Nuge (in his 20s), Nurse (in his 20s), Hyman (in his 20s) and Kane (younger than Kadri), again curves are brought up repeatedly.
When Kadri signs a contact that starts when he’s 32, again curves are unpredictable.
Uhhh Kadri is 32. Signed for 7×7. Without a doubt that contract is worse than the Nurse deal.
Not at the moment.
Kadri is certainly worth $7 million…Nurse is overpaid by at least a million.
The balance will likely shift in 3-4 years but Nurse won’t be a spring chicken at that point.
Nurses contract is up at age 35 Kadri at 38 as is Huberdeau.
Nurse’s contract also includes his 3-4 peak prime years (the next 3-4 years).
Draisaitl’s age 30 contract will probably be for a lot of money and term considering he’ll be a 1,000 point player by then!
Draisaitl and McDavid, if they both want to keep playing for the Oilers, will likely have a conversation or two about how much each guy will take on their next deals Probably a few with Holland too. The good thing is that Holland has set the table pretty well for Draisaitl and McDavid to understand how much cap room is available.
I apologize if you think that you and I agree on anything as reasonable based on your follow up. Kadri is not even in the same stratosphere as Draisaitl, so to compare their 30-40 years is laughable and the original comment was not an invitation to do so. For all your BS about how Huberdeau’s contract is going to be nothing against a 100+ mil cap, it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to pre-emptively decry a contract that hasn’t been signed yet, that will in all likelihood remain better value than any Flames forward.
Extreme value must also in the eye of the beholder, because we all just saw a bunch of 3-5 mil defenseman and a 6 mil goalie being schooled by the Oilers offence. Which, by the way, included a hobbled Draisaitl who was playing at about 50% of his projected 37 year old abilities while setting playoff series scoring records…
I don’t know if you can say the Flames are substantially better than last year, or that they’ve improved more than the Oilers have improved.
Weegar is the real area of improvement for Calgary. The forwards on paper are probably a wash – I see Huberdeau as a slight upgrade on Gaudreau and Kadri as a slight downgrade on Tkachuk. This is also subject to how well the forwards settle in, particularly Huberdeau who has played his whole career for the same team. Credit where due, improving or even standing pat in the short term is pretty impressive for a team that lost its 2 best players in the same summer.
The Oilers meanwhile will have a whole season of Kane and Kulak, who have already shown to have fit in very well with the team. Campbell is subject to the same caveat of coming to a new team, but it’s hard not to see this as a big upgrade in goal. People like to tout Mike Smith’s SV% from last year, but conveniently leave out that he only played a quarter of the season and that Koskinen was our de facto starter. There are also enough players in their early 20s that it’s reasonable to expect improvement there.
Oilers fans shouldn’t be celebrating these signings in Calgary, but the Oilers were the better team last year and are the better team this year.
I can’t imagine anyone thinking Huberdeau is a slight upgrade on Gaudreau. Gaudreau is very underrated in his end and him and TkaCooke were 2/3 of the best line in hockey last year. Huberdeau is the equivalent of playing all out offense
When I analyze and discuss Oiler acquisitions, I do so with a view of how it effects the “here and now” and the medium/long term. I do the same when analyzing the moves of other teams.
I have also been on record of hoping the flames would sign Kadri to exactly this type of contract.
I mean, of course I hope Huberdeau increasingly leaks chances with age, and that Kadri crashes and burns. But both are still very good players, and I don’t like Calgary’s acquisition of them on top of a solid D in the here and now. In the here and now, they also have the cap room to take on an arguably overpriced contract.
In the future, we don’t know what we don’t know about the cap, or the ability of their GM to get out from under bad contracts. Again, I would like these moves to hurt them long-term, but it is much harder to project the long term future on these players
Yeah it gives the enemies of all time ammunition. Oilers have to understand they need to ice a tough team in order to win the cup.
Counting on the refs to call penalties in playoffs is for sissies.
Calgary dumping futures so they can sign players which they will need to use futures to dump those said players is pretty funny
What futures have they dumped?
Just today a first round pick to be able to sign Kadri
Has that been announced? I assume it cost them at least that but I haven’t seen it anywhere.
Nope…no confirmation.
I like how you went from pushing Kadri being signed for $5 million x7 to “no confirmation” on whether Calgary gives up a 1st.
You are reeking of desperation today, it’s great.
A true stench of desperation. No worries though, he has 5 or 6 other teams he talks up. Though he’ll probably disappear after the first round of playoffs again.
Strange that there is no follow up on the Monahan trade and CapFriendly doesn’t even have him as a Canadien.
Details not finalized?
A first round pick isn’t futures huh?
Where did you see that?
No wonder it took so long.
https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/canadiens-acquire-sean-monahan-from-flames/c-335312254
Here are the conditions associated with the first-round selection acquired by Montreal:
1. In the event Calgary’s own 2024 first (1st) round choice is selection 20-32 (inclusive) (following the determination of the 2024 NHL Draft lottery results), then Montreal shall have the option, exercisable until 48 hours prior to the start of the 2024 NHL draft, to exchange the conditional 2025 or 2026 first round choice to become Calgary’s own 2024 first (1st) round choice); or,
If Florida’s 2025 First (1st) Round Choice Transfers to Calgary (pursuant to the conditions on an earlier trade)
2. In the event the conditions to trigger Montreal’s option as noted in #1 above does not occur, or Montreal declines to exercise this option, the following conditions shall prevail:
If Florida’s 2025 First Round Choice DOES NOT Transfer to Calgary (pursuant to the conditions on an earlier trade)
3. In the event the conditions to trigger Montreal’s option as noted in #1 above does not occur, or Montreal declines to exercise this option, the following conditions shall prevail:
A. If Calgary’s own 2025 first (1st) round choice is not in the top-10 selections of the 2025 NHL Draft (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Montreal shall receive Calgary’s own 2025 first (1st) round choice, and additionally,
B. If Calgary’s own 2025 first (1st) round choice is a top-10 selection (following the determination of the 2025 NHL Draft lottery results), Montreal shall receive Calgary’s 2025 first (1st) round choice, subject to the following condition below:
Randle was early on:
E.Kane
J. Campbell
AND
P. Kane
P. Kane at 25% AVV
Foegele, Puljujarvi, and 2 firsts?
Don’t really care about the cost. Only interested in the “when” NOW or at the deadline?
This is in the MSM now.
Take that Treliving!
“The greatest trick Randle ever pulled was convincing the world he did not exist.
A man can convince anyone he’s somebody else, but never himself.
And like that…phww… he’s gone.”
There’s no way in hell I’d pay Puljujarvi and 2 firsts for one year of P. Kane (treating Foegele as a cost neutral cap dump).
Kane is a wonderful player, but there is a tomorrow/next year when those other assets will be needed (as players for the Oilers and/or future trade currency).
And FWIW, Holland has never traded even a single first rounder for a rental, much less two of them plus legitimate NHL player(s).
IMO a trade like this is both unwise and highly unlikely.
I only watched Ostap Safin three games. Each time I was left with an impression that this player has zero chance at the NHL. I was not aware of his injury history, still not aware.
Is there a chance or a potential path still open for Ostap?
The Oilers didn’t qualify him so they no longer hold his NHL rights and, for now, Safin is heading back home (signed with Sparta).
I think the Oilers’ management team just got a ‘back to work’ memo.
Bob Stauffer
Brilliant recovery from a difficult situation by
@NHLFlames
GM Brad Treliving with additions of now Kadri along with Huberdeau and Weegar. Battle of Alberta Arms race fully on! Neither team is done gearing up
Calgary is obviously worse than last year and I’m sorta shocked folks aren’t making this point loud and clear.
Kadri is a 50 point player. And he was a 50 point player on STACKED offensive teams. This is a Pisani contract on steroids and I love it.
That Huberdeau contract is right now today about 50% worse than Nurse. Oh my GORD what a horrid overpay.
Calgary might make the second season, Sutter might also get flushed by Family Day. In the best light this team is now the Oilers circa 1997-2001.
Hopefully Markstrom has recovered from the beating in the second round cause if he still has shellshock this is going to be ugly.
This is a horrid, no good set of contracts and only hardcore Sutter fanboys would think anything else.
Laughably bad hahahaha
It all remains to be seen. But IMO ….
This year’s rendition of the Calgary Flames will be superior to last . It’s no laughing matter.
Calgary was bound to be worse than last year as all those players weren’t going to have career years back to back, plus they will likely have a normal injury year, unlike last year.
Now Tkaczuk + Gaudreau >> Huberdeau and Kadri.
Still a good team, but they will regress this year. Nice recovery in the off-season, no doubt, but a better long term option would have been to re-tool. But that would cost Treliving his job so that wasn’t happening. But expectations are high in Calgary and there are going to be some disappointed fans, so changes may be coming anyway.
As i sit in the barbershop waiting my turn, what a wonderful read today Mr. Lowetide.
I’ll second that. The comments got derailed by the trade but really enjoyed the post today.
ty
Woodcroft showed opposing coaches how to shut down Sutter Hockey.
Johnny Hubs was being blasted by Florida locals for his lack of passion for playoff hockey.
Derek Ryan, Brad Malone.. Only active Oilers older then Kadri.
Weegar, good get.
We’ve all seen a lot of good tendies never recover from a series like the one Jacob just experienced.
Their elite line of Pelletier/Backlund/Dube will save the day though.
I’m not sure Brad Malone will even be an active Oiler come the 2nd week of October…..
I look forward to watching Kadri playing first line minutes.
I look forward to watching Barkovless Huberdeau.
I don’t think the Shames have improved as much as some people do or think….
treading water. But given that their star player just left them at the altar that’s not a bad place to be. Well at least for three years or so
Barkov strong and underrated play was a big reason Huberdeau had a career year.
Huburdeau only played a quarter of his 5 on 5 time with Barkov – Sam Bennett was his regular center.
Of course, he made much hay on the PP where they played together and, presumably, Barkov took on most of the tough match-ups giving Huburdeau some cleaner air…..
I’m talking about playing behind Barkov on different lines.
If we are being honest, Huburdeau played little with Barkov at evens (about a quarter) – he was mostly with Bennett (and Duclair).
At the same time, much of his damage was done on the PP as compared to Tkachuk and Gaudreau who killed at evens.
I can’t wait to hear how elite players are elite early and early now includes their 31 year old season
32 (as of Oct 6th).
Whoa, reports of a first rounder going to Montreal. The price to pay to have the ability to sign an anchor. My goodness, the flames better make hay in the next two seasons.
The Kadri deal is at best a fair deal for 3 years. Physical guys just don’t last
Is it even a “fair deal” for year 1?
Its a fair deal in year 1 if he, once again, score 20 points more than his norm – now on the flames, not the Avs.
For one year of LTIR…..I actually feel sorry for the Flames….NOT!!!!!
Everyone bookmark this thread. Harpers Hair thinks the phlegms have improved this offseason!
Joe Colborne and Brogan Rafferty are excited to see how this prediction plays out!
No thanks. Bookmarking threads that HH says something stupid is a daily routine I could do without.
You know how messed up it is that he spends his free time being controlled by his dislike of the oilers? It’s also kinda messed up to spend your time being controlled by his low quality hot takes. His daily silly hot takes add nothing of value, but neither does pointing out how silly it is every day.
Serious Sandy!
Lighten up, Kert!
Haha, alright.
Those Huberdeau and Kadri deals aren’t going to age well, but that’s some impressive work by Treliving for their near term future.
Definitely all in
I won’t be surprised if they are as good as they were in the short term. Possibly better
They lost offence but still have in their top 6 for goal scorers in tiers a 40, two 30’s and a 20
Do Tkachuk Gaudreau Monahan have more net positive team effect than Huberdeau Weagar Kadri in the short term? Especially given that I see the former two wingers as ones who can be pushed out of games when it counts and one is a loud mouth egomaniac that can’t back himself up, with a seemingly obnoxious interfering family?
And yes the contracts are future tanking which will be fun to watch fizzle on
Yup.
Treliving may look like a dork (he does) and talk like a dork but his moves this summer probably put him in contention for GM of the year along with Dorion in Ottawa.
Considering the body blows that team took earlier in the off season you have to give him credit for working the team back into contender status.
Mortgaged future for a shot to keep his job! Gets nothing but distant from me! The deals the man made were first and foremost self serving. Calgary deserves better!
Once you are in win mode in a capped league anything that might happen 4 years from now is totally irrelevant to a GM.
Guys get injured, 5th round picks turn out to be your best player, your bets don’t pay off and you get fired. All of these things can happen and there is always a team in rebuild mode where you can ship your bad signing off to in order to push the mistake even further down the road.
You win and all is forgiven.
This exactly.
And ultimately you might not win a cup (it’s very hard to do) but once you’re all in, fretting about moving picks or prospects is not part of the coda.
Tampa Bay and Colorado have not been shy about moving heaven and earth to win now and it works.
Yeah, every team is different, of course. Colorado & TB went through long rebuilds so they got to build up assets that Calgary doesn’t have so potential is different. Calgary is not on a dynasty path. They just hope to win one before the window closes so from Treliving’s perspective all in is all in.
Agreed, he did well considering the circumstances.
Definitely need to wait and see on this.
He did a good job replacing the departed players, but it will be much tougher to replace that league best 1st line (which likely wasn’t going to be as strong the 2nd time around anyway) and replicate an injury-free season for every key player.
Flames had to pay a first for the privilege of signing Kadri to his twilight years.
excellent
No first round pick in 2018 – trade for Hamonic – Isles select Noah Dobson
No first round pick in 2022 – trade for Toffoli – Habs select Filip Mesar
No first round pick in talent-rich 2023 – trade to divest Monahan
2019 1st round pick Jakob Pelletier 5’10” scoring under 1 ppg in the AHL. He’s 21 years old and math says he isn’t going to push the river. Just 7 points in 13 playoff games.
2020 1st round pick Connor Zary scoring at less than .5 ppg in the AHL.
2021 1st round pick Matthew Coronato is the Flames’ only prospect with a shot at playing top-6. Dustin Wolf pretty good in goal too.
This draft-and-develop program is not one to envy.
They have nothing coming down the pipeline it’s almost as if Sutter is calling the shots and Pizza Boy is just a figurehead.
Coronato missed a wide open net for Team USA yesterday that could have helped them not get upset in the QF – He’ll make a great flame!
I believe it’s NOT a 2023 1st, it’s a conditional 2025 1st, and they have both their own and Florida’s 2025 1st’s… but still, that is a lot of primo draft capital oot the windae…
Its a strong and deep draft supposedly next year.
The Flames backing a core that’s a significant level below the Oilers is beautiful.
Oil top 6:
McD, Drai, Nuge, Kane, Hyman, Yamo/Pool
Flames top 6:
Hubs, Kadri, Lindholm, Magpie, Coleman, uhhhhh…Toffoli?
Me likey.
Now do the defence and goal.
The deal makes sense for Calgary.
Besides the Mighty Oil, the Pacific division is very weak. With Huberdeau, Kadri, Lindholm, and that defense, the Flames should be able to make it out of the first round for at least the next couple of years. They’ll be a hot mess later in the 2020’s but for now their team is solid.
It’ll be the Oilers and Flames at the top of the division, battling it out to make it to the conference finals until 2025. What more could you want as a fan?
The goal will be to injure Kadri first before he’s able to injure any Oilers. Thank God for Kane’r.
Flames will be going to Los Angeles in the spring, then the golf course.
Pretty much how I see it as well. The Flames just improved the weakest part of their roster and moved it pretty close to balance.
And I don’t think Treliving gives a rat’s ass about where the team is in 3-4 years. He thinks he has a chance to win in the next couple and is going for it.
As every GM should in similar circumstances.
And, yeah, Kadri needs to be Tkachucked by Kane early on so everything is clear.
Some chatter that the Flames are also working on a deal to send Lucic to Anaheim. freeing up another $6 million in cap space.
I hope so! It’ll probably cost them another pick and then they can sign another aging player to another bloated contract.
So if Lucic costs them a 1st to dump for one year we won that trade and won it big
So if Monahan on LTIR costs a 1st what does dumping Lucic cost them?
theyve already sold everything that isn’t tied down
Coronato is all that’s left
Maybe a 2nd with 50% retention?
Lucic is owed only $1 million in cash after having his bonus paid out.
Very attractive to a team near the cap floor.
With Monahan off the books they have about $2.5 left and their lineup pretty much set. I suppose a trade is possible but there isn’t much left in the UFA pool that would require that kind of money is there?
Adding Weeger to their D gives them a surplus of LD.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they move Valimaki as part of a trade.
Logical but I don’t think he has much value. More a throw in than anything.
Like saying the Oilers might move Benson as part of a trade.
Jumping Jehoshaphat !!! . Could we have an arms race brewing here ? Flames are really taking the bull by the horns . It appears they are in win now mode . How will the Oilers respond ? It’s going to get interesting very quickly around here . I have plenty of ideas . LOL .
7×7 for Kadri
7X$5.785 according to Cap Freindly
Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
Kadri 7x$7M in CAL
Translate Tweet
10:21 AM · Aug 18, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
CapFriendly says $7Mx7 currently, 17 minutes later.
Duplicate
Yup, that too!
Yep…they changed it.
Premature admiration? 🙂
haha….All this for a guy who doesn’t even want to play for the Phlegms.
$49MM for regression years based off a massive outlier of a career season can change one’s desires…..
How much did it cost Calgary to ship out Monahan, how much will they pay Kadri? Devil is in the details! Need context!!!
Sportsnet says Monahan has been traded to the Habs but they don’t say for what?
A few unofficial reports of a 1st rounder going to MTL. Unofficial but reputable sources speculating.
The flames will be a great team next year but their window will close quickly with their best players approaching the tail end of their careers. Even Crosby started to slow down at 32. If Huberdeau and Kadri don’t have great years this year it could get ugly.
Treliving bought himself a couple years before he gets canned. Once those guys decline it will be someone else’s mess to clean up
Monahan traded to Montreal.
For What?
Elliotte Friedman
@FriedgeHNIC
·
9s
Sean Monahan is going to MON to make room for Kadri
Let the Kadri Kane fued begin.
At this rate the Flames are going to push us to a 6th game.
Markstrom’s glove hand says 4.
LOL – 7 years for Kadri at 32.
If this is north of $7MM per, it’s exactly what I hoped for. A massive term contract for a 32 year old coming off a season that was by far a massive offensive outlier in his career in a stacked offensive team.
No doubt it helps the flames this coming year but I have been of the opinion all off season that a massive term contract for Kadri would be biggest mistake of the off-season. Anchor within a few years.
Yikes! Between him and Huberdeau, Calgary’s window is already closing and the two haven’t even played a game for the Flames yet.
The majority of these deals will fall under a cap that exceeds $100 million.
Hardly a death blow.
What about their age? Haha
While looking at a possible recession
I wouldn’t count my chickens before they hatch
The next G.M in Calgary will be saddled with 20% of his cap for two 36 year-olds. Yikes I’ll take the Nuge and Hyman contracts to age better than Huber and Kadri.
The GM is betting Calgary’s hope of any future on it! Akin to drawing to an inside straight!
$7MM isn’t awful but for seven years for a guy that is turning 32 before the season starts.
Kadri is a career 45-55 point guy.
That’s if he’s not injured or suspended. The next stupid thing he does and he will get sucked into the battle of Alberta and do something outlandish this will net him a long suspension with his history.
The roster issue as I see it… correct me if I missed anything.
My assumptions, top 4 C, top 8 wingers, top 6 D, top 2 G by salary included in total salary calculations. Then included next 3 most expensive skaters by salary to get worst case scenario. McLeod at 1,000,000 ( I expect he will get somewhere between 1000000 and 1200000)
Total salary 23 player roster with current personnel: 79851666. Retention and buyouts 4166667. Prior bonus overage to cover this year 896000. Leaves us over the cap after LTIR deducted by 2414333.
Option 1: trade Fogele with no salary back, run a 22 man roster. saves 2750000 so under cap by 335667. Not ideal and could cause problems in injury coverage, thins out wing in the middle six.
Option 2: trade Barrie for Soucy or equivalent in salary. Saves 4500000-2750000= 1750000. Still over cap by 664333, would require salary retention to work. Changes mix of player types on D, still able to run 23 man roster if salary retention is adequate, otherwise 22 man roster.
Option 3: trade Barrie for Mayfield or equivalent in salary. Saves 4500000-1450000= 3050000. Cap space post trade 635667. No retention needed to make it happen, still able to run 23 man roster. Again,changes skill mix on D.
I am leaning towards expecting option 3 at this point.
Your thoughts?
LTIR left out to simplify presentation, as it adds in above the line and deducts below the line for a net zero effect.
Option 4 – trade Yamamoto to his hometown Seattle team for Morgan Geekie and a 2nd. Saves 1.7 million, allowing for McLeod to sign and to run a 23 man roster.
Not that I want to see Yamo go, but maybe it is time to cash out when his trade value is still perceived to be high.
Still doesnt work on a 23 man roster. Saves 1.7 when we are 2.4 over the cap. Still leaves us net 70K approx over so would need to dress 22 in that case. Also thinning the top 6, so very bad idea.
Math. It’s a thing.
Oops 700k not 70 k. Bad typing my bad.
I’m not sure any of those options are available, in particular options 2 and 3. I can see the Isles interested in Barrie given Lou L.’s verbal but the Kraken acquired Schultz so they may not be looking for a Barrie.
There was earlier speculation re Seattle, so that is why I phrased it as “or equivalent in salary”. Helps see the impact solely from a salary viewpoint for any player in that price range. That is also why I mentioned two differently priced defencemen as options so it helps clarify the Cap impact at different price points, without it being specifically tied to either of the two players mentioned. They are only recently speculated targets, I am sure Ken has others in mind for these options as well if these options are still on the table. Actual players being considered are likely different than what we think!
Seattle is not his hometown, which is Spokane. Seattle to Spokane is materially farther than Edmonton to Calgary, for scale.
Even if he was from Seattle, I wonder, do GM’s try and build teams of players that were born in the area. Not that Seattle wouldn’t necessarily be interest in Kailer but does Francis care where he grew up?
To think, the Flames were one year away from being done with the Lucic contract, only to go and sign two contracts that could end up being equally disastrous on their own. The Huberdeau one will probably age better, but this Kadri one, if north of 7 AAV, is going to be ugly.
39yr old Kadri lining up at 4C for the 3rd season in a row at over 9mil per season.
Beautiful.
Elliotte Friedman.
8m
Hearing Nazem Kadri will be a Calgary Flame
Oooo I am excited for the phlegms to have two of the worst contracts in the league!
I expect Kadri’s new deal will be substantially less than what he set out to get which was reportedly $9 million.
The Flames may benefit from waiting…we’ll see.
Agreed, this is an August 18th contract – not opening of UFA. Term is bad at 7 years, but AAV should be way down from what was originally reported. Calgary fans should hope for E Kane’s AAV. Kadri will be 32 at start of the season.
With 1 trade & 1 departure in free agency, the Flames lost 219 points scored from last season. With that same trade & one signing (assuming the Kadri rumors are true), they gained 246 points scored from last season. Points aren’t everything, but I think they’ve improved.
I’m not following the math. Huberdeau and Gaudreau are a wash but Tkachuk outscored Kadri.
Ah, you added in Weegar’s points.
Yep…44.
Now do their playoff points lol
Very strange you didn’t do the math on all of the gains/losses for the Flames.
In your world, did Calgary only lose Gaudreau and Tkachuk if you are talking points out?
Not all of Weegar’s points can be added, as he will replace someone currently on the roster. To be fair, you should only add the net difference between his points and the points of the player he will be replacing.
Sure you would!😂
Well, that makes things exciting.
An interesting matchup at centre.
A Selke nominee in Lindholm and another shutdown C in Kadri up against Oilers best.
Should be fun.
Oilers in 5, again.
Fun for a year maybe 2. Kadri is almost 32
What will be more interesting for me will be seeing Kadri and Kane on the ice at the same time. 😉
Kadri has a knack for making opposition players to do stupid things.
Kadri has a knack for doing stupid things, should only help propel McDavid and Draisaitl to put up even more points on the Flames franchise.
Kadri has a knack for doing stupid things and a record that adds to suspension time so as I said it will be interesting to see how those two handle things. The Battle of Alberta might be returning to a theatre nearby.
Is this the part where you hype up Kadri to be a significant gain for Calgary?
And then try to argue that Kadri was not a significant loss for Colorado?
kane would pound Kadri face in that’s why he won’t fight him. Kane can get just as nasty as Kadri and then some, should be interesting. I can see the Oilers adding another tough Winger. One of Yamo J.P or Foegele will be replaced with a winger with some edge and strength.
Tkachuk was the defensive driver of that line. I suspect Lindholm gets less Selke votes in 2023, though most votes are immaterial/reputation.
The other benefit will be Backlund moving to 3C.
That creates the possibility of Calgary creating an elite 3rd line.
Good grief.
Backlund was their best player in the Playoffs but when he goes missing it’s for long Stretches and he’s not getting any younger at 33
Kevin Weekes reporting that Calgary has traded Monahan and will sign Kadri.
I wonder what the Monahan trade costs them.
Fan confidence, or lack thereof, in every team’s management.
https://theathletic.com/3516625/2022/08/18/nhl-front-office-confidence-rankings/?source=user_shared_article
Oilers management one spot below Arizona… which…. I dunno.
The sample size on Arizona was, understandably, very small.
It’s fair to say injury affected Safin’s development, but I always felt he was less than the sum of his parts.
His draft +1 season in the QMJHL (pre-injury) was OK, but was also way shy of what Savoie and Petrov did in their draft +1 seasons.
Even aside from injury, IMO we can regard Savoie and Petrov as better prospects, with better arrows, than Safin was.
Well with Evander Kane playing right wing that leaves a big hole for Jack Campbell to play left wing.
– Travis Yost probably.
He has Edmonton as 9th best/most-balanced team in the league. That is pretty fair, considering they just finished 11th league-wide. Hopefully marginal upgrade in goal.
Imagine if he lined up the players in their right positions, he might move them into the top 5.
Lavoie did have major knee surgery this spring – I have heard/read no updates on his progress, here is hoping he’s 100% and 100% for camp but its unknown (and unknown if he has been able to hockey train this summer, as opposed to just rehab – here is hoping, its a big season for him).
Cool thing about the Holland Oilers (not unique, but i think moreso than in pre-Holland times) is they’ll re-sign him next summer and be patient with his development.
Even if his recovery takes time and he has a mediocre season, the end of his ELC is probably not do or die for his time in the organization.
I agree – while I do think this is a “big season” as far as development and a potential “material role” in the NHL, even if isn’t as productive as we hope, it would take a fairly catastrophic circumstance to see him not qualified and brought back.