Four Strong Winds

by Lowetide
  • At home to: Calgary, Vancouver (Expected 2-0) (Actual 1-0-1)
  • Road: Rangers, Islanders, Devils, Detroit, Ottawa (Expected 2-2-1) Actual 2-3-0
  • On the road to: Seattle, Vanouver (1-1)
  • At home to: Mammoth, Rangers (1-0-1)

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David

20 year Emmitt Finnie seems to be settling in on Detroit’s top line (7GP, 3G, 3A). Seems like you are able to put young players in the top 6 and have them thrive. Or at least other teams can. maybe the Oilers could try that out. Although with how fast Knoblauch turns to the blender if Howard/Savoie didn’t score in their first 2 periods in the top six they would be moved down.

Pretendergast

11/12 in FWD TOI.

Props to the kids early success but that’s not top 6.

Last edited 9 months ago by Pretendergast
David

I haven’t been watching all of their games but I have been under the impression that when he’s on he’s generally with Larkin and Raymond. Is this not the case? It was in the two games I watched. And they had the assists on his goal today. That’s top six linemates if not top six mins.

90s fan

His most common linemates have been Raymond Larkin and Appleton Larkin.

Fibonacci

He is.

David

Also if you are basing that solely off of his TOI for today’s game, the previous game he led ALL forwards on TOI and the one before that he was third. The game before that he was 9th. So it varies by game. I also don’t know what his special teams activity looks like. Detroit roles Larkin, Raymond, Kane, Debrincat on PP1.

Pretendergast

Yep you’re right, he’s getting thrown out there a tonne. Good for him.

When the game was in the balance he got squeezed. Not uncommon for a rookie.

Lets get a larger sample size and see. He’s already beaten the odds as a 7th rounder and the Yzerplan could sure use some late draft wins.

Given the yutes on Detroit it looks like he got there on merit for now. He PK’s a bit.

I really dont know how they ice a competitive team, it looks like a dogs breakfast to me. I think they’ll fade.

Fibonacci

I’ve watched several Red Wings games and Finnie has generally been on the top line with Larkin.

He isn’t getting PP time which reduces his overall minutes but tonight was 6th in TOI among forwards which definitely IS top 6.

His goal tonight was assisted by Larkin and Lucas Raymond.

He’s 3rd in forward SOG with 13 while his 3 goals and 6 points have him second on the team with 3 goals 2 behind Larkin.

He also second in the NHL rookie scoring race 1 point behind phenom Matthew Schaefer.

He’s the goods.

Diablo

The famous HH kiss of death. This kid will be in minors by the turn of the year.

OriginalPouzar

The thing is, it wasn’t even an option for the coach heading in to the season, even trying to it in exhibition. Media asked about those two in the top 6 and coach was always express he thinks its best for them to play “lower quality opponent” in the bottom six and went so far to say they need to learn to win board battles and make hard plays under pressure before earning time in the top 6…….

Fibonacci

Very old school thinking.

teamblue

Which actual contenders have rookies in their top 6? Sure, young players can be put in the top 6 and thrive. It happened for the Oilers quite a bit, during the DOD.
Putting rookies in the top 6 puts them in a bad position. They’re facing the best other teams have, while trying to navigate the transition from a lesser league, which is hard enough. Few rookies can jump to the NHL and succeed in the top 6. Only the true stars do it.

Last edited 9 months ago by teamblue
Shamus23

On the goal Howard scored he moved into position and hit the brakes to position himself perfectly for that pass, which shows how smart he is. He did the same thing a few shifts later and sailed a wicked shot just over the net. You can’t teach those kind of offensive skills to players. The kid is fast, smart and has an unreal shot with a very fast release. When McDavid and Drai play together they seem to pass more than shoot 1st. It always Seems that they try to make an extra pass when they should be shooting. I really don’t see the harm in putting that kid on the wing with them for a couple of games. The kid is all about shooting it seems. He has the speed to keep up for sure and if given a chance who knows. With this team struggling to bury the biscuit, you think this coach would take every opportunity to increase chances to score more.

Neumann

Savoie has been noticeable in every game he has played this season. He makes plays on the puck and is around it all the time. Even if the counting stats aren’t there, yet, he is a high hockey IQ player that will make a difference in the future. I hope KK gives him and Ike Howard some leash to run during the first half of the season.

Shamus23

Savoie has been snake bitten the last few games and also shows the smarts he has to get to the right spots for scoring chances. Smart kid with great wheels. Hopefully he starts burying the biscuit on those chances soon.

DevilsLettuce

Any suggestion Nuge isn’t a top 6 player is wild, has 7pts in 7 games averaging 5 & 4 minutes less per game then the Glimmer twins, has more then DOUBLE the points of anyone else on the squad that isn’t the Glimmer Twins.

Nuge plays all game states, transitions effortlessly from being a center or winger.

Nuge is a Gord damn DIAMOND.

Todd Macallan

#KeptNugeForever

leadfarmer

Some rumors out there that Stan is going to go hard after TJ Hughes after his college season is done. Older college player but who knows if you get lucky

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=223516

DevilsLettuce

Is he the 23/24 yr old RHC Bob was talking about last night?

Todd Macallan

I do think that to be the case indeed, as the NCAA RC that age he has intimated Stan going after recently.

Having Barnett and Park playing on the squad currently doesn’t hurt the case either.

Last edited 9 months ago by Todd Macallan
€√¥£€^$

Yes, I believe you are correct. Although it could be tough to recruit him, he was at TB & NYR Development Camps the last 2 years. He is a very good FO man and has a 64% FO percentage so far this season.

He is a high-level NCAA scorer, and was a 66 goal scorner in the AJHL, a very rare achievement in the history of that league. Only Danny Heatley in the late 90’s (70 goals) and 6 other players in the 1970’s scored more goals than Hughes.

Mac Gadowski, a 6’3” LHD who put up big numbers last season with Army last season, but is currently at Penn State, is the other NCAA FA Stauffer has been stumping. Not sure how he fits, despite the similar Edmonton connection as Quinn Hutson.

MushedPeas

Perhaps I’m misreading the post, but did LT just casually imply that Doc’s play currently belongs on the third pairing? and not a soul jumped on that?

Wow. Maybe we _have_ already had _every_ Nurse conversation.

Dunkaccino

Sadly, the amount he’s overpaid seems to increase with each passing game. 9.25 million for a third pairing d-man is about 7.5 million too much.

Shamus23

Maybe they should sit him for a game ?

Shamus23

Nurse has been terrible this year. It seems like he is not into the games and lacks concentration. He has not been physical at all. Which is needed on this team

Reja

Walman has game it’s nice to see as you need a mixture of players no matter the talent you can’t have all passive players.

winchester

Walman’s first game back could not have gone much better. Walman can really help.

And if he can stabilize Nurse, that is a really really strong pairing.

fishman

Sadly your $9.25 mil player shouldn’t need help…….

winchester

I liked the game last night, but I will still point out the goal where both Kulak and Emberson are covering the front of the net, with not one, but two attackers shoulder to shoulder in front of Skinner for the screen.

That was extreme, but an example of how passive the Oilers are at defending their net. It was a win against Ottawa, but that passive defending system they utilize has hurt them and will continue to hurt both the Oilers and Stu Skinner. And Connor Ingram.

I do not understand why.

LMHF#1

It has to be a coached thing.

That behavior goes against the instincts and training of every defenceman ever.

fishman

That was a brutal display of defending. Neither D man reacted to two Sens at the top of the crease totally screening Stu. That can’t be coaching??

winchester

I don’t understand. Take Kulak for example. He played for that Montreal team that defended the netfront like it was Ft Knox. They were excellent, Kulak learned well and that team rode their defence all the way to the cup finals.

Kulak can and does play a heavy defending style….at times. So he absolutely knows and understands that style, yet on the Oilers it seems optional or even discouraged.

Scungilli Slushy

Probably a part of the fast break thing, first to the puck behind the net. The problem with not defending the highest percentage scoring areas is your first to the puck fishing it out of the net too often

They supposedly are good at suppressing cross seam plays, but given the team proclivity to total breakdowns defensively at least a few times a game, on a good night, it may be a better idea to protect the net front and middle ice, give the perimeter. That’s how teams defend the Oilers and when they do a good job it sure works

Maybe the system can work with more time doing it, maybe it’s partly personnel. Maybe Kulak can do it, but it’s not easy for light not high skill D, of which the Oilers have 3 well under 200

League average D last time I checked was 208 and forwards 203

Scungilli Slushy

Maybe part is game smarts. You lose position you fan out and give no corner or clear shot

Shamus23

Emberson is not very good

winchester

Now, what about our big contract of the summer that has seemed to get lost in the weeds.

What was Frederic supposed to be, and what is he actually?

Personally, Im not seeing enough, nor hearing much about what role he is supposed to have.

Fast, hard forechecker, very physical, grinding player. This description is not true. What is going on here?

fishman

Frederic was a physical, grinding winger. Not sure what he is now other than a disappointment, signed to a long term contract. Is it coaching, injury or just WTF????

winchester

Seriously wonder what is going on right?. Why does a player seem to change characteristics? Age/maturity? The contract? Player? team style? coaching? Or just my imagination.

Last edited 9 months ago by winchester
Pretendergast

High ankle sprains can change a player. At 27, this is around the same time Lucic stopped smashing people because the body wears down. They’re saying the same about Bennett this year for twice the price.

Last year the team didn’t hit much then ramped it up in the playoffs because they know the attrition.

You need a mix of Mitch Marners for the regular season and Sam Bennetts for the post season. Here’s hoping Freddy will be the latter cause he certainly isnt the former.

NickShaver

Based on deployment, it seems KK doesn’t know, which doesn’t look that great following the contract. It really does look like Frederic should be played on the wing until he gets back to playing his physical game. After that, maybe, maybe, maybe move him to C. As with many Oilers players over the past many years, he has been bounced around looking for some chemistry, but chemistry is seemingly not allowed to be developed.

As with many Oilers fans, I’d really like to see some continuity in the lines, say, a minimum of 4 games in a row, for the same line combos. I would add that, if, after a line is caved in a game, the line be changed up only if they are similarly caved the next game (small-sample-size-that-could-just-be-a-one-off type of thinking). I know this likely impacts at least one other line as a result of making change, but I don’t think it can hurt any more than the blender approach has. Also, the Oilers have sufficient depth that the line change could just be swapping in someone from the press box, and not touching the other 3 lines. Sometimes chemistry can be instant, other times it can come from familiarity.

Last edited 9 months ago by NickShaver
anonymous

In typical Oiler fashion, they decided he was what they needed, traded for him, he showed nothing so they doubled down, negotiated against themselves and signed him for too much and way too long. New management but the same old Oilers.

leadfarmer

Got a case of the Kassianitis
Now that you got paid no need to wear down your body. That contract is gonna get bought out by the next GM

winchester

I loved Kassian, but this is true. Got paid and completely changed. The game that he adopted was not NHL level.

Reja

Injury to the back in hockey is the kiss of death. Kassian had the speed and hands to cover that contract easily.

Ryan

By my back of the napkin calculations, the Oilers are really going to need to make a trade for Alex Tuch.

Fibonacci

What does your napkin tell you about what the Oilers would have that the Sabres would want?

Diablo

Frederic might be an option – if it’s not working in Edmonton by the TDL, then he may be open to a return to the Eastern conference. He would certainly fit the player type that Kevyn Adams has been targeting of late.

Last edited 9 months ago by Diablo
Fibonacci

Can’t imagine Buffalo would be excited about an underperforming soon to be 28 years old player on an 8 year contract.

I expect the Sabres could fetch a late first round pick for Tuch.

Side

You don’t have to stretch your imagination very hard. It’s the Sabres, after all.

Diablo

Cool – more magic beans. That’ll help the Sabres make the playoffs some time in the 2030’s … maybe.

Fibonacci

Frederic is not helping anyone make the playoffs which is why he was traded by both Boston and New Jersey in return…wait for it….magic beans.

Ryan

I did some digging online.

Some sources suggest he won’t get traded until closer to the Olympic break. That certainly makes sense at the Sabres need to make a push to try to make playoffs.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Heck yeah, hop aboard; plenty of room on the Tuch train.

Diablo

Maybe it’s time they end the Tomasek experiment on the PP – not sure he’s an NHL player. Good size, decent skill, but not enough speed or jam in his game. He’s pretty vanilla.

I’d offer him to Vancouver right now, as they are looking high and low for a centre, since Chytil is probably done for the season after getting caught in the train tracks with his head down again.

Tomasek is not going to produce anything from the forth line, and he’s had enough opportunities to cash on the PP. Time to give someone else a shot – I’m thinking they should really see what Howard can do on the first unit PP before Hyman gets back.

Philp looks like he is grabbing the RHC C role on the third line by the horns now. This is very encouraging. If Frederic can get his game going, that third line is going to be a load.

I’m not sure that Roslovic is still an Oiler after Hyman gets back into the lineup. If he’s not playing the top 6, then he’s not much help in a checking role on the bottom 6.

Those of you who are writing off Janmark shouldn’t. There’s a good chance that he’s the last one standing between him, Roslovic and Tomasek.

Melman

Roslovic is like having a diet coke in your bar fridge. I mean, it’s fine, but you’d rather have something else.

Reja

Yes I think he’s shown enough for a team to trade for him unlike many posters who feel he came all the way overseas with his family so he could hangout at Dunkin’ Doughnuts in Bakersfield. Unlike Holland I do think Bowman prefers to trade players over making them miserable by burying them in a lesser league.

NickShaver

I’m not opposed to trading Roslovic in time for Hyman’s return, but I’m not ready to make a call on what he can do for this team. He did miss training camp, so I would expect it to take a handful more games to show what he can do as he gets used to the Oilers’ systems, his new teammates and linemates, and gets into full game shape.

Diablo

There are 4-5 games before November 1, I believe … he has at least that much runway to make an impression. Not sure I see the fit, now or on the day that he signed. With all of Howard, Savoie, and Tomasek applying for a job on the wing, and Mangiapane having signed in July, and then Podz getting resigned in the late summer, it was never clear to me where Roslovic was going to fit in.

Yes, he gets points at 5v5 … but he needs to be playing with the top 6 guys in order to do so; by himself, he has never drove possession or scoring. He wore out his welcome in both Winnipeg and Columbus, when he couldn’t replicate his scoring in a bottom 6 role.

I’m hopeful that he will showcase enough that Bowman can get an asset in return for a player that he signed for free. Same thing with Tomasek.

OriginalPouzar

What Tomasek came over for means absolutely nothing.

How he performs will dictate what the Oilers do with him, not his hopes and dreams.

I don’t think he’s going anywhere any time soon but if they decide to re-assign him, so be it, and I’m sure the player will get over a few moths in Bako collecting his U.S.$1.2MM, probably quadruple what he would be making back home.

Reja

If he’s not the right fit I do think he’ll get traded before being sent down as I do believe teams will be interested once the injuries start piling up.

OriginalPouzar

You realize that an assignment to the AHL doesn’t mean a player can’t be recalled to the NHL, right?

dustrock

I thought that was easily Bouchard’s best game of the season.

Thought I would be more convinced by Savoie than Howard going into the season but it’s actually the opposite for me.

Your Eberle/Yamamoto comparison is interesting, LT. I do think Savoie is getting bodied off the puck pretty easily.

cowboy bill

It can’t be overlooked that Savoie won a crucial faceoff in OT which set up the game winner. Neither of Yamamoto or Eberle would find themselves in that position and be successful. Plenty of players get bodied off the puck even players that are over six feet & 200 lbs. It’s the best league in the world.

Last edited 9 months ago by cowboy bill
Pretendergast

Savoie also got stoned by Ullmark after he made a play and crashed the net. He went to the area where goals are scored. He’s too skilled for that not to come eventually.

So fast to watch in real life.

Diablo

He plays at a much higher pace than guys who have been in the league for years (e.g. Frederic, Roslovic) or are much older than him (e.g. Tomasek). His quality over those guys is obvious already, and will only improve as he gains experience and earns the coaching staff’s trust.

BornInAGretzkyJersey

Did Ullmark stone Savoie, or did the defenseman (Chabot, if memory serves) get back in time to disrupt the shot?

Otherwise agree. He has the nose for the net. He’ll come around. The camera showed him in a frothy lather on the bench after that play. Love the high compete level.

OriginalPouzar

Well, each of them could have found themselves in that position as Savoie only took the face-off because Mangiapane got kicked out.

I am still not sure why a pure career winger was first in to take the draw over a player with centre pedigree on his strong side………

cowboy bill

I wasn’t aware that Mangiapane plays center. However I am aware that Savoie has played some center in his day. Which leads me to believe Savoie was intended to take the draw all along.

OriginalPouzar

Mangiapane, the career winer, was set-up to take the draw and got kicked out, then Savoie came in.

Reja

A game within a game.

OriginalPouzar

I don’t know what that means.

All I know is that, for some reason, Mangiapane was set to take the face-off before Savoie and Mangiapane got tossed and Savoie came in – I’m happy it turned out that way but uncertain why the choice wasn’t made to have Savoie take the draw initially.

Gerta Rauss

Mangiapane, the career winer

I know this is an auto correct entry, but I had a little chuckle over this, and the response from our host

Last edited 9 months ago by Gerta Rauss
Scungilli Slushy

I imagine Savoie is figuring things out. He has to learn to play with brains and quickness, physical play will go nowhere for him, it’s pointless most of the time. He should watch tape of Marchand, minus the crazy, unless he has that in him

godot10

I see that you missed the first minute of the 3rd period when Bouchard let the opposing team off the mat for the 2nd time this season in the same minute of the 3rd period.

OriginalPouzar

So, you are going to key on one bad clear leading to a GA, on a play where Ekholm made a mistake and Nurse took the bad PIM, and not acknowledge anything else Bouchard did in his, presumably, 25 minutes?

Got it!

teamblue

Wow. Nuge and Ekholm failed to win the battle and clear the puck. Yet, Bouchard let the opposing team off the mat???? How that GA against was Bouchard’s fault is only manufactured in someone’s mind that can’t view a play objectively.

JJS

‘Pushing the river’ is all about transporting the puck through the neutral zone and maintaining/regaining possession deep in the o-zone.

The key requirements are crisp breakout passes/decisions (rarely evident at the moment) and an effective puck skater on each line (somewhat evident).

My observation is the breakouts are the area requiring the most attention at the moment. The defense are a hot mess and the forwards aren’t connected. Once sorted, the ‘river’ will start to flow in the correct direction.

godot10

Bouchard came out for the beginning of the 3rd period lost in space again, leading to a quick goal against and letting Ottawa off the mat, just like he did against Calgary.

OriginalPouzar

Before that Nurse played weak defence leading to a penalty putting Bouchard on the ice with one less teammate.

Also before, Ekholm and the forward lost a battle creating a 2 on 1 down low for Bouchard to defend.

Agree on a poor play by Bouchard being asked to be PK1 in addition to everything else.

godot10

He is a $10.5 million dollar man now.

teamblue

Explain how that goal was Bouchard’s fault. I’d like to hear a logical explanation on it.

Reja

I figure now is the time to give Howard a push for a few games and see if this kid can work his way into getting some more slot shots.,

cowboy bill

Sure… play him on the top line with Connor & Leon. That will work. You can’t be serious.
Now that I’ve said that we’ll probably see that as the top line against the Habs next game at home. Oh my goodness.

Reja

Sure give him the odd shift with skill maybe he pops. That was a goal scorers goal last night need to find out what this kid has before the real season starts. I think this is the first time you mentioned Howard without him being shuffled off to Bakersfield for some good old fashioned Kenny Holland marination time. Could it be your coming around on the kid?

cowboy bill

Hahaha …. Janmark could have scored that goal.

Neumann

Did you watch the goal? The D took the passing lane and Howard stopped up and adjusted and presented his stick and got the shot off in a hurry. I’ve never seen Janmark do anything remotely like that.

Reja

Howard is goal scorer he’s not a energy line player he’s not a mucker and grinder. If the Oilers drafted Caulfield the marination on the brain crowd would still have him in the minors learning to take a hit.

cowboy bill

I’ve seen Janmark score some amazing goals. If you think he can’t do a one timer you’re underestimating him entirely.
Howard was just in the right spot at the right time.

Last edited 9 months ago by cowboy bill
DevilsLettuce

Organizational malpractice if they don’t give the kids some meaningful at bats.

Reja

Lets face it Oilers have been boring as hell they’ve had 2 short offseason hangovers. The vets are going through the motions that’s why Sather always brought in 1/3 new blood. Savoie and Howard could be just what the Doctor ordered did you see Leon’s face light up when Howard scored.

DevilsLettuce

Anyone that disagrees with this is simply wrong.

It’s fun, it build team chemistry, it’s strengthens the organization.

NickShaver

I’m all for it. If Howard can keep finding that soft coverage spot in the slot and McDavid and Draisatl can get the puck to him, he changes the look of that line.

DevilsLettuce

When McDavid/Draisaitl barely win their time on ice, it needs to immediately be shut down and not returned to. All other lines get a pass in my view when the 1st line is being handled so poorly, absolutely embarrassing for all involved.

Henrique/McDavid/Savoie
Podkolzin/Draisaitl/Howard
Mangiapane/Nuge/Roslovic
Frederic/Philp/Tomasek

Savoie works with McDavid, give Henrique a last gasp then to the skybox when Hyman returns.

Podkolzin digs, Draisaitl shovels, Howard shoots.

The Oilers second line last night is properly slotted to the teams strengths.

The Philp line wins in this alignment, Frederic is far overpaid to be there but it is what it is. When the Oilers last played the Bruins, that version of Frederic as a Bruin was a menace all night long. Imo it’s being coached out of him.

This team is at its best when it’s centers are lined up at center. It’s not at its best when either Draisaitl or Nuge are on McDavid wing.

Sierra

Do those stats support or undermine the decision to play McDrai together?

Silver Streak

completely agree with splitting McDri ( we are blessed with 4 excellent centers ) and please lets stop with the lines mixmaster….when Hyman returns I want to see 4 solid lines with injuries the only reason to change personnel.

OriginalPouzar

One could consider a lineup that has the 4 top winger with a combined 6 points (one point being an empty net) as embarrassing as well, no?

Brantford Boy

I also thought McDavid had the helper on Howard’s goal… upon further review of the highlight I guess he didn’t touch the puck. Bummer I have the captain as the league assist leader in my pool.

Shout out to Rico on his 1000th game, loved the shirts! Well done Brantford-tonian, well done!

So far, in 7 games of this early season, goalies are not the problem. There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man.

OriginalPouzar

Mangiapane-Nuge-Roslovic played 9:24 and showed once agan what happenes on a skill line where no one can push the river. Almost 10 minutes at five-on-five and they were 2-1 shots, 0-1 HDSC and owned a 32 percent expected goal share. Love the suppression, but offensively these are empty calories. You’ll take that all day from your third and fourth lines, but you need your second line to outscore.

As of now, this forward group really only has 2 players that can push the river, Connor and Leon which, at least for me, is more fodder for having them split.

I do think that Nuge can be part of a successful 2nd line at centre but he needs a more substantial winger like Hyman – he did this in the playoffs.

In any event, that 2nd line, as constructed is “a lot of the same”, not enough “power” or something.

Coach was very complimentary of Howard post-game and his continued improvement – his words lead one to think that Howard will get increased opportunity.

Of course, this coach’s word much of the time should be taken with salt grains.

Last edited 9 months ago by Lowetide
cowboy bill

Howard scored a goal, so you know what that means.

Reja

Send him to the ECHL for taking a stupid penalty have Clattenburg join him as it can get pretty dirty. Both these Kids need to learn nothing is a given.

cowboy bill

Maybe they should put Nuge back with McDavid and have Leo center Mangiapane & Roslovic.

Nuge-McDavid-Podz
Mang-Leo-Roslovic.

Does that work?

Todd Macallan

Hahaha man, your utter disdain for the integrity of the Knob’s word when discussing injuries in particular is really funny to me.

I’m not saying you’re wrong here, in fact I tend to agree with you, but it gives me a chuckle every time.

OriginalPouzar

Interesting tidbit from post-game – without even being asked about Janmark, Knob mentioned that he won’t be back “anytime soon”. I guess Janny is out longer term than we originally thought.

Scungilli Slushy

Guantanamo?

OriginalPouzar

Ya, maybe, I dunno.

He was in the dressing room post-game so on the trip.

Its odd.

cowboy bill

I think he knows what Janmark brings, he wants to see what some of these new players bring. It’s funny because I thought I heard Janny was close to returning.

winchester

It seems to become normal for veterans to slightly game the injury management rules to allow teams flexibility. In this case, not forcing moves. In this case I do not know that is true, but it does cross my mind.