When I was a kid, Sunday nights were American Top 40 on CKOM radio Saskatoon. Casey Kasem was the host, and I loved the show. It introdued me to Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (American Girl), Dwight Twilley Band (I’m On Fire) and a legion of artists I wouldn’t have discovered otherwise. I can still remember Casem’s voice saying “we’re counting down to number one….” and if I’m honest he taught me how to create excitement vocally by speaking in a hushed tone. Casem was an amazing broadcaster. Please read this.
I mention him today because we are ‘counting down’ to an offseason that is already wild in the streets. I don’t recall the Oilers being this close to draft day with so much up in the air. Is Mike Babcock the coach? It sure seems like it’s going to happen, but based on reporting from Darren Dreger, Pierre Lebrun and Frank Seravalli there will be an investigation. That takes time.
This raises the possibility of an entire summer’s procurement taking place without the head coach. The last two seasons saw the GM sign a bunch of free agents on July 1, followed by the head coach fading those same free agents during the regular season. Going through the draft and free agency without a coach would seem to be less than optimal.
I think the Oilers have a pretty nice team, all said. I would like to see the club re-sign Connor Murphy, add Jordan Kyrou, Michael DiPietro and maybe Mike Kesselring just to make sure that right side of the defense works out fine. Oilers general manager Stan Bowman could offload Spencer Stastney and use Damien Carfagna or Atro Leppanen as an ‘eighth defenseman’ who couold be recalled from the Bakersfield Condors in times of trouble.
- Savoie-McDavid-Hyman
- Podkolzin-Draisaitl-Kapanen
- Howard-Nuge-Kyrou
- Dach-Samanski-Frederic
- Lazar, Michaels
- Walman-Bouchard
- Ekholm-Murphy
- Kulak-Emberson
- Kesselring
- Jarry, DiPietro
On the Lowdown today, Kevin McCurdy will be our feature guest and we’ll chat about the Oilers offseason and what may come. Jays are starting to rock, CFL week 2 on the way and we’ll chat Carolina-Vegas plus the NBA final. Noon to 2pm, Sports 1440 and You Tube.
If the Edmonton Oilers intend to hire Mike Babcock, their motivation is clear
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7343414/2026/06/10/edmonton-oilers-mike-babcock-investigation/
Can we cheer for a team that hires people with troubling histories? Is it worth Stanley? I get that we are all grown-ups here (mostly) and nobody is an angel, but I wonder if this team’s leadership is growing so desperate they will choose people who have already shown us who they are. Or am I just clutching at pearls here?
I feel like the desparation might be a bit overdue. From top to bottom.
I know it would have been an absolute media mushroom cloud here, but I know a team that was pretty good, but desparate for goaltending, who signed a very controversial goaltender who became available mid season. That team is 2 wins away from a cup right now with that goaltender starting.
And I know another pretty good team that’s been varying degrees of desparate for goaltending since Dwayne Roloson left town, and they got bounced in the first round.
Desparation is a great motivator.
The biggest problem is how long it’s taken the core to get that desperation that will cause them to do anything to win, like ditch their bad habits. Frustration which they brew in spades isn’t desperation
It didn’t take the last Oiler version with an all time player that long to figure out what they need to do, and how hard they had to push
Aside from all the baggage, Babcock the coach is likely as good a bet as anyone to hammer home the messaging to this roster. The problem is he’s not the same guy, with the same swagger, that walked into the Leafs organization as the league’s newly minted highest paid coach. It’s almost like they’re trying to sneak him in the back door. And if this doesn’t work out, this team is probably gonna implode.
I wonder of the credit for ‘figuring out’ belongs to Sather or players?
It was both but I think Sather was key to it all. He found the guys that were wired and driven the right way, and he did a lot of things that aren’t necessarily typical herding them along to being more mature. Like showing up at bars to make them go home
Which is why I think they need a leader type coach that can get them to follow. They seem to be there as well. Drai and Connor are not like Messier and Lowe in that way
Fogolin was not your stereotypical Captain. By the time Fogolin reached Edmonton he was a stay at home beast that would pummel anyone in front of the net. McDavid never had a Fogolin to drive-mentor him into the ways of winning. Fogolin was a true leader I remember hearing stories of how strong he was especially if grabbed you by your throat in the dressing room. Sather-Fogolin would win at all cost. Leon-McDavid or at that stage they are on the downside if you don’t think those chirps by the Tkachuk brothers etc don’t cut deep than you never played sports. With the constant badgering by the media that the Oilers can’t win a Cup with McDavid as your leader it wears on the team psyche. I hope Bowman gives some big skilled forwards to Babcock and Leon-Connor aren’t taking a beating from the no name Ozzy’s of the league. I don’t really like Babcock the talent he had at Sochi where he won Gold but it was boring-boring hockey. I wanted guns-blazing offensive coach not a bottom down 2-1 regular season squad.
I respect your view but don’t agree. Desparation is a motivator but it most often breeds bad choices. Bringing Hart in would have left a big get brown stain on this once proud franchise
I suspect you’ll agree with this. Anyone with daughters or granddaughters would likely want to be left alone in a room with that goalie for just five minutes, hyperbole to be sure and just saying. And you’d want him on a team you’re cheering for? You’re more compassionate than I am and I tip my hat
I think the details of E.M. and that goalie are relevant. The female judge did not find E. M.’s testimony reliable.
Credibility in a criminal court consists of reliability and honesty. An honest witness can be found to not be credible because his or her evidence is not reliable. I have no doubt the trial judge (who cares if she is a woman or not – it is well known in the criminal justice system that women are harsher critics of other women than men are) found her evidence to be unreliable and thus she wasn’t credible. Who would be credible in that sense when you’re piss drunk and have five strong young men vying for your body. I know I wouldn’t. And I know you know this already, in a criminal case it’s proof beyond a reasonable doubt, a standard that for good reason demands an almost 100% certainty level. And likewise as you know, an acquittal is not equal to innocence. So I’d add these are relevant considerations. And common sense, in my view, strongly urges, at the very least, disgusting behaviour. It was not a fivesome as I erroneously said above. It was a sixsome. This is JMO
I don’t think what happened is ok at all. I am not defending those involved but the larger principles. There are many therapists in my family, my father was a lawyer. I get the situation and it’s gravity
There are assumptions being made with your reasoning. We don’t know and shouldn’t make assumptions about what those people wanted. I worked for years in restaurants, bars and clubs. A lot of disgusting, unwise, later regretted behaviour goes on
This was years ago I imagine it’s more libertine these days. Women are sexual, it’s not all about men in every situation. In my experience I would say most women operate (or did) somewhat along the lines of what might be called traditional morals. But some don’t, I don’t think it’s a good idea, I’ve seen the fallout, but it’s their choice. We don’t know what happened and at least it was finally given the proper attention and due process
Let agree to disagree okay. But I tip my hat to your effort to chalk this up to “we don’t know”, due process, having a dad as a lawyer and therapists all around you, and I worked in bars etc. Please know I respect your takes and love how you are an Oiler historian and astute Oiler observer. My professional training does not allow me to make assumptions. I’m trained to infer based on common sense, logic and evidence. I simply see how this got out of control and five strong young men asserted their will against a young lady who was extremely compromised and had absolutely no chance to extricate herself from the situation. So they were acquitted. Not found innocent. You know how few convictions there are in cases like this, partly using the same mentality you’re urging. It’s almost always a “he said, she said” contest, except in this case it was a “they said, she said” case. The chances of a conviction are not great when it’s just a “he” and hellacious when it is a “they”. I mean she was in the stand for 9 days. Anyone, including the Pope, would be inconsistent and be confused after being grilled by 5 defence lawyers.
That’s a large reason women and male victims never even come forward. Who is going to believe them, right?
Saying women are sexual and we don’t know gives people like the goalie an out. He knows and he should be ashamed. I mean as a man, do you really want to be the fifth man in on this? And I’m tiring of the cancel culture refrain. He doesn’t need to be cancelled for crying out loud. He should be respected and treated with decency like all humans and he’d sure as hell would find a job and make a darn good living even if he was not playing in the NHL, which, JMO, he shouldn’t be playing in
The documented evidence in the court case undermines this commonly-repeated allegation.
I’m sorry, I’m pretty sure “proper attention” is a problematic way of looking at this —and many other— sexual assault cases. The judge would not allow some expert testimony, and, because of their senority, did not have the training viz trauma and sexual assault, that is now required. The defence did not appeal, in part because the complainant had already endured too much of the “proper attention” the trial involved.
We do know some of what happened, because it was on text messages:
-all team members were invited to a “group sex” experience with a single femsle
-several responded by attending, a subset of whom admitted to participating (others watched)
-no member of the team, Canada’s finest young hockey players, spoke up in the text thread, saying this might be a bad idea. This is hockey leadership failure at its worst. Unfortunately, from what I’m hearing, it’s not a rare thing.
Does this have any connection to a pro sports team hiring à known bully as coach? Is there a connection between what happened on this text thread and team leadership in any of Babcock’s teams failing to protect his victims? Is there a connection between the desperate “win now” move to hire a bully coach and team leadership’s endorsement of this bully? I think so. It’s about things like character, integrity, empathy—leadership.
Exactly. It’s all unsavoury but worse than that are witch hunts. Found innocent they still paid a big price reputationally and professionally, they didn’t get off Scott free, even if Hart was able to return
With all due respect Slushy, they were not found innocent, it wasn’t a witch hunt and it wasn’t just unsavoury, it was repulsive and disgusting no matter the result after a criminal trial. See my comments above. I suspect you might have a daughter or granddaughter. Think about it this way. And if I were one of the five so called high pedigree players, I’d forever regret my behaviour and hide in shame. Apparently not Hart. Nice to be him I guess. And trust me I ain’t no saint. I have made some major doozies in my life I’m still regretting in all phases of my life, fortunately not this
I get your point of view. I don’t think the trial was a witch hunt, but it is for those that won’t accept what was found and want to still go after those people. Or make judgments from afar without the details
To me it’s an emotional response. But I don’t want to live in a society run that way. It once was and it’s worse
Those people involved we do know put themselves in a bad situation. But there are a lot of people that get falsely accused of whatever and the same cancel culture thing happens to them. No facts, all emotion and illegitimate judgment. Not everyone accused is guilty, that’s why we have our legal system. Have you ever had that happen to you?
I have in a far less serious way and it sucks. I’ll share as this is why I have a problem with making strong judgments about people and situations while not knowing specifics about it. By a fellow I have known for years. He’s a customer at my business, not the brightest guy, over confident and a hot head, dead certain about everything
He was high in local amateur baseball for 20 years, and in the middle of a large tournament quit and walked off for no valid reason to do that. Who does that? His daughter was a high level athlete, he thought her marks weren’t good enough, so he balled out everyone he could and wouldn’t let her go to a national championship. I have kids, that seems way harsh to me, I wouldn’t have let it get that far and done that, or taken that approach. That’s not the character for someone that should be deciding anything about other people’s lives
He came to my business and gave me a tongue lashing over some minor gossip from a not well adjusted person that I employed for far too long trying to be a good guy. He should have known to take the source into account. He wouldn’t listen to reason, just reacted emotionally, and he ‘knew’ because of some experience he had that had nothing to do with me
He did it another time, and now I had to control my anger and not make him back his words up. And then decide if I had to get my lawyer involved – was this big mouth twit going around and slandering me? Over what, idle gossip with no merit? If he cared so much he sure didn’t care to even look into it properly. It was not fun and still bothers me
And then he forgot all about it, hasn’t mentioned it since, and still comes in and has a laugh. He hasn’t said he was wrong or asked for forgiveness, but I try not to hold it against him. The former employee chased a person to Hinton and moved back, I ran into them and it’s like I met a long lost friend, a big hug and so great to see you, how are the kids, blah blah blah
Neither realize, were aware, or would probably care what they put me through. Again it wasn’t a major thing in question, but it still takes a toll. I don’t want people like that deciding anything for or about anyone. Especially something serious. The court of public opinion sucks, people that ‘know’ the real truth, it’s why we have a developed legal system, not frontier justice anymore
I’ve heard a few places where the 5 individuals were found not guilty. The judge didn’t say they were innocent, insinuating that somehow they aren’t innocent. An accused is innocent until proven guilty. So if you are not convicted and found to be not guilty, you are therefore innocent in the eyes of the law.
With all due respect to yourself you do not know what went on there and made your own conclusions most likely based on the woke canadian media. I seen allot of the evidence from the text messages to the video at the bar to the video on their phones. The judge found her uncredible as her testimony did not match the texts, video or her actions. She was the aggressor via the evidence. I know this seems hard to believe that women could act this way but I experienced it once myself when I was young where the woman wanted and pushed for multiple partners at the same time including myself; I walked away as I wasn’t into it and was demeaned by her for not wanting in. This woman hooked up with a level of celebrities and was the center of attention at this time. After they wanted nothing to do with her. She had a boyfriend that she was cheating on. She was feeling regrets after and her mom initiated everything and after was looking for money to keep it out of the public eye. The evidence presented in court backs the players. The evidence of Canads public opinion backs the woman. Noone here knows all the answers from that night but will ignore the evidence, the ruling and the outcome. That is fine, I love that we still can have opposing opinions and voices. I fear in the future we are getting closer to not having that and it’s very scary. I do have a daughter by the way and do not condone the behavior of any of the participants, male and female but at the same time who am I to judge other people?
“Repulsive. Disgusting. Unsavoury.”
Are we talking about a murder or people having sex?
I never fail to be amazed by the puritanical attitudes that persist in this country in regards to what consenting adults get up to behind closed doors. In Europe, these repressive attitudes are considered laughable. Given the reality of what we know to be mass porn consumption in North America, it seems especially hypocritical. It’s ok to watch it but not to do it? M’kay.
I don’t share similar kinks as this young lady or the hockey Canada gang, but it’s their life to fill with bad decisions as they choose. There was nothing going on there that doesn’t go on in Vegas on an average Thursday night.
As a hypothetical thought experiment, if it was one man electing to have sex with 5 famous and attractive female athletes, would that be considered “repulsive, disgusting, and unsavoury?”
It is both true that “it was repulsive and disgusting” AND that “they still paid a big price reputationally and professionally.” Four of the five lost their NHL careers. That seems a heavy punishment for something repulsive but not criminal.
Hart still faces chants of “no means no”, when in fact, according to the evidence, it was E.M. who should have heard that message. Regardless of whether he should have been in the room at all (he shouldn’t have been), it appears that she was the one who initiated.
The judge did not do some things that are standard practice in these kinds of trials, hadn’t had some of the basic training judges are now required to have in these kinds of cases. And, whether a crime was committed or not, I would not want my daughters or granddaughters or sister dating those men.
I have daughters. I have experience with what triggers you, it’s terrible. I have sons as well. The line of thinking you are taking takes us from one of the better places for them (at least as it currently is), centuries of building the rule of law, back to medieval vigilanteism
I think that if my kids break the law they should face that. I also don’t want them falsely accused and harmed by cancel culture and those that would insert themselves where they don’t belong from the ‘court’ of public opinion
We so take this for granted. Building it up is a long, slow process; tearing it down is fast, and often takes the guise of higher morality.
I don’t enjoy that so much around the team is uncomfortable. It’s distracting in the wrong way. There have been many comments around this over the last few days. Some people have strong feelings
If no crime has been committed, if amends have been made, I wouldn’t want to interfere with someone else’s affairs, because I don’t want them doing that to me. A lot of people in the game and league seem to have lower sensitivity about this than many fans and some media do
The players we are told are satisfied, I would like it if it is made public that MB has made amends – apologized to those he was mean to. That would be a sign he has worked to change that personality aspect. I don’t think it’s happened and that isn’t great
Winning isn’t life or death serious, but the stakes are still high, that changes how much some things are cared about. A lot of crap goes on we don’t hear about, always has, we do hear about a lot more since smart phones. The players are in the best position they ever have been, they have agency they didn’t before. And as shown by the Columbus thing, HR matters are taken seriously these days
Spector’s piece surrounded it, it could be the final piece to a Cup, or if it goes sideways it will damage many reputations a lot, and might cause the start of a tear down
— For me the guy is well beyond being in prime as a coach, too far removed from day to day relevance and much further removed from when he was to cock of the walk coach. I live in Toronto : there was no more magic by the end of his tenure with the Leafs.
— It’s just weird pattern : of all the people to hire as GM why did it have to be Stan. He too was far removed from being a stud GM (if he other was?) Really Babcock is the best ?
— Setting aside the morality piece which grapple with its been an interesting window into the organization that we have been privy to.
— Babcock got the redemption hire from a crappy team and was DOA. At the time it made sense :”only a desperate team would make the Hail Mary attempt”. Was even justified for a Columbus to take a shot. Now even more years removed from being current he’s the top choice of one of the legit Cup contenders?
— it is clear though if there was any doubt how much the owner meddles and how much influence the core has and assuaging them has been a real part of the organizations troubles IMO
— Unless it’s an incredible ruse to get the NHL to get Vegas to allow Cassidy to be hired. Being so vocal on desire to hire a seemingly pariah in the league : what a crazy bastard cunning ploy !
It’s either an incredible ruse or incredible insanity.
Well said. Stupid might also factor in
The thing is that the full story of who Mike Babcock really is hasn’t been disclosed, and I would wonder if Mike Babcock actually wants that story told since he resigned before it could be disclosed in the first place. Not only that but why does Edmonton want to open that can of worms? WTF.
Edmonton wants to win. I think it’s encouraging that they would eat worms to achieve that. I don’t know if I like where they’re going here, but I guess I like why they’re going there. It would be a shame to leave the best option available (not saying he is, but if the team feels that he is, he is to them) for the family picture thing.
I think that the question is does Babcock want to open that can of worms? I’d suggest he’s either told the Oilers everything or “everything”. Which is to say, if he was honest, I think he’s the coach. If he wasn’t, I think we find that the hiring/investigation is off and they all move on.
I’d suggest he’s told the Oilers nothing and is going on his past success , which is all the Oilers are interested in. Nobody is getting the full story and obviously Babcock’s status as a top NHL coach has been tarnished. He clearly isn’t the coach and the world will find out why if this nonsense continues.
I am old enough to remember the circumstances that brought Craig MacTavish to the Oilers. Even today, the mistake Craig made leaves a “troubled” mark on any evaluation of his history.
Still, Craig can not change that. Instead he has done the only thing he can – move forward every day earning a little bit of redemption. To say that Craig has been one of the best Oilers in the community is an understatement, and he has become a poster boy for second chances.
My only caveat here is that when handing out second chances, the Oilers need to be meticulous in their research, and given the window of the team, they better be right on all counts.
We are well past second chances for Babcock.
This is not Babcock’s 2nd chance. that makes the situation completely different. This is his 4th chance ….. There is a difference …
I was cheering for Babcock in CBJ and then when the reports surfaced, I almost couldn’t believe it ….
Can a Leopard change his spots?
I like second chances but there are things that you just dont get to redo. When you are at the height of a profession especially and are in the public eye. Example. If you have a criminal record you will not get a job where you deal with vulnerable people.
Alot of very good people here who are more tolerant and willing to let it go.
Bowman, Quenville, Bertuzzi and many others should not have been given that chance. This isnt just a sports problem either. The premier of saskatchewan has been responsible for deaths due to his choices and yet still had a career in politics. Gross
Babcock didn’t do anything criminal, nor did Bowman and, if one reads the Jenner and Block report one would suggest that the vast majority in Bowman’s position would have done the exact same thing he did.
From the report, in the famous meeting:
1) it wasn’t even clear that there was any form of sexual assaults but what was expressed was information that “something weird had gone on with the coach and player”
2) Bowman’s boss, one of the most powerful men in hockey, Al MacIsaac, told the rest to not worry about it, he’ll deal with it
3) within a few weeks, the coach was fired
Maybe we should wait until all the information is known .
That is the information, as is known.
The report is easily accessible with just a couple of clicks.
One can be highly educated on the facts within a few hours, shit, less than an hour by skimming, if one wanted.
First Oilers game, huh?
I think your comment is wise
I am telling myself I can continue to cheer on the Oil, even with the stupid and misguided choices that have made and would be making if they hire Babcock
I also remind myself that I have made numerous stupid and misguided choices myself. We all do. But this is a professional sports team. And for better or worse, it’s decisions are magnified
And, like some of my decisions, unnecessary and, frankly, stupid. OP commented on it being unnecessary. It’s so stupid on so many levels it’s hard to believe they’re even thinking about it. How about hiring a hard ass Craig Bérubé, a good, solid and local guy who has won a Cup as a coach. Instead they go to the shit pile. And if the players agree, than I gotta question their judgement. The jury is out on that in my mind. I’ve moved past losing 97 and even 29, especially if they’re fully on board with this move
This is what you get when your GM is who he is. I’m on record as not liking Bowman and frankly, it was a stupid mistake hiring him. There were other qualified people to choose from, not someone who gave a sex offender a reference letter. It was idiocy. And being fair, he’s not the most terrible GM, just average at best and for that, the owner hires him. A joke, really
JMO – you don’t forgo values just to win a cup. See Vegas. We hate them.Vegas’ goalie had a fivesome with a very drunk and incoherent young lady. And no one would take on that goalie except Vegas. And we are still waiting for him to say how he thought that was sexy. So say Vegas wins and Carter Hart wins the Conn Smythe, there’s a permanent shit stain on the whole thing. Unfortunate. I wish my team would ride the high road and hiring Babcock is far from that. I’m glad the NHLPA is demanding an investigation, or so it seems. It’s critical
Back to your point. It’s an excellent one and one I am pondering. You are not over reacting. Character counts a lot. The Oilers are not showing that. Thank you
I think this is the question here and it’s one that I find myself grappling with in light of the Babcock consideration. There are troubling histories and reclamation projects aplenty in this organization’s past – MacT being exhibit A of course, but in almost every situation I can think of, there has been at least a modicum of ‘putting in the work’ prior to joining. MacT went to jail and served his time; Kassian went to rehab; even Bowman put in a significant amount of time working with and learning from Sheldon Kennedy and his team. Evander Kane’s issues have been aired out publicly, but it’s rare to see a father win full custody, so perhaps some of his transgressions were somewhat overblown and certainly not in the same neighbourhood as the prior three mentioned. Those people showed us who they were but also showed us who they could become. Whether you want to believe that Kane was genuinely good in the community or just had a remarkably talented PR team is up to you, but he showed up a lot, particularly for kids’ causes.
The issue with Babcock is that he showed us who he is time and time again. He showed us who he was in Detroit – there is a reason why so many of his former players speak out against him. He showed us who he was when given the keys to the Leafs. He took a pause for four years after he was fired in Toronto but then didn’t even last two months when hired by Columbus. The details of that situation have been buried since the summer of 2023 and will only be revealed if the Oilers are determined to make this hire, but if the reports that are starting to come out are really true, the ‘looking at pictures on players’ phones’ thing is nowhere near the worst transgression.
When you pair all of the baggage that comes with Babcock the person with the fact that his coaching track record and team performances in his leafs tenure (and even his last couple of seasons in Detroit) leave a lot to be desired, His final seasons in Detroit were mid-pack. First round exits, under-performing stars, defensive metrics propped up by insane goaltending and an offence that kept to the perimeter and generally had trouble scoring goals, finishing mid-pack 5v5 and essentially buttressed by an unsustainable power play, and I saw first hand what his leafs teams looked like… Kinger’s comment in this thread covers it, so no need to repeat.
I have a long-standing Oilers-specific group chat with several pals. None of us live in Edmonton anymore but haven’t stopped loving this team. This news has been the obvious topic of conversation since the news started to leak. Today one friend mentioned that the fanbase would have been prepared for the circus that this is causing had we simply signed Carter Hart when we had the chance, because at the very least, winning a few more games would have softened the blow of signing someone with so much baggage. I told him that this attitude is exactly the problem. The “winning excuses/cures everything” mentality is what led us down this path of hockey culture in Canada being so messed up. Whether you think Rick Westhead is a good journalist or a hack (I fall into the former category, YMMV), his most recent book is remarkably illuminating. Hiring Babcock suggests that any ‘work’ Bowman put in with Sheldon Kennedy has already been forgotten. It suggests that any work to change the culture of the sport at the grassroots level to make it more inclusive, more safe and just a little bit less toxic doesn’t matter one iota. If the best player in the world wants this guy to be the coach of his team, the kids are going to see that. It embraces the old-school, coach by fear and intimidation approach. As such the spiral of silence and the cycles of violence will continue. I just don’t see how a person with this much baggage and with a coaching record in significant decline is the person to lead this team or why he even warrants consideration, but then again, the Oilers higher-ups have always fancied themselves the smartest men in the room… same as it ever was…
I wish I had written this. Well said!
Thanks! It was your initial question that got me thinking. Thanks for starting such a great conversation!
Great to see you again Stephen.
Just before reading your post, I was watching a video of Frank Corrado who played under Babcock in Toronto and his message was : “Be careful what you wish for”.
https://x.com/thegoldenmuzzy/status/2064808422772470169?s=20
Thanks, Andrew! I never really went away, it was more that I didn’t feel like I had much to contribute over the last few years. This issue was just kind of like a bat signal for me. I knew it was time to re-emerge, at least for today.
Hope to see you from time to time.
Your perspectives are highly valued.
I don’t like the Babcock hire myself yet no one is forcing us to cheer for the Oilers. I seen Coffey traded then came the big blow of Gretzky-Krush-McSorely going bye-bye then came the systematically toppling of the greatest team in not only hockey but any sport. We have a prime Connor-Leon who want to win so bad. I do think the Hyman opinion of Mike coaching technique’s is valued by the core. We’ve all been coached by Ass-holes and then the other extreme of a soft coaching style. Every player reacts differently to a hard nose coach if Leon-Connor-Nuge-Nurse-Bouchard-Ekholm buy in the rest of the team will follow. I’m most interested in how Bouchard can hopefully be transformed overnight into a Norris trophy winner.
Babacock could very well turn out to be the coach that gets this team to the cup, yes, THIS TEAM which is much better than their performance last season where the leadership group admitted they did not respect the regular season and were not nearly good enough in their overall games – acknowledgement that they need to play harder and likely change the way they play a bit in order to lead this team to wins.
The last coach had a couple very good years – he coached this team to high structure during the 24-3 streak and for most of the playoff runs. It simply did NOT go well last season. His decisions were highly questioned from how he ran camp, to loading up the top line with Frederic to start and all season long though the first round defeat. He had MANY players underperform as individuals and the team underperformed. He could not get the team to manage the puck, he could not get them to play with a neutral zone and offensive zone structure that didn’t create crazy rush chances against (nor could he get them to defend the rush well), he couldn’t get them to defend the low to high play with a shot from a wide open attacker in the slot, he couldn’t tweak the breakout and transition game to have the team play with speed – he couldn’t get the core of the team to invest in the games.
It was time for the coach to go even if they couldn’t get Cassidy.
Is Babcock the guy? I dunno but he seems to excel at some of the things this team needs – for me, he doesn’t seem as clear cut as “the guy” as Cassidy who seems to bring all the attributes that this team needs but, well, the org knows the negative PR will be MASSIVE and want to do it anyways – they want Babcock.
Spector was as clear as can be in his article – the players pummelled Babcock with questions regarding his previous transgressions and how he became the “hardest of hard-asses” and they came away telling management this is the guy to hire. Is that intel planted through Spec and not quite accurate? I don’t know but I don’t see Drai and McDavid agreeing to be used as patsies in this.
I don’t like it, it just feels like is “not needed” but, what the hell, if it does go through, I’ll hope for the best as I always do – its reasonably likely to work out great (of course, could be a disaster as well – we just don’t know).
“where the leadership group admitted they did not respect the regular season and were not nearly good enough in their overall games – acknowledgement that they need to play harder and likely change the way they play a bit in order to lead this team to wins”
Ugh. A leadership group that couldn’t be bothered to “want to win” in the regular season, made their goalies and coach pay the price, and are now inviting a man with a bona fide rep as a bully into their locker room…
Lawton’s chat with Bob addressed this. I’ve been saying for a while that they needed a coach that could lead the group. Tactics are important, but the thing that separates is being able to have a team follow especially elite players who have strong opinions
We don’t know what will pan out. But I respect Lawton as straight up and sometimes I don’t quite agree with him. His take on Babcock seems a bit soft. But he knows him well enough, thinks he is aware of the situation and was ‘humbled’. We’ll see if he can control himself
He also thinks he is a very strong elite leader and will add that to the team. That type of leadership has been missing since McLellan or even MacTavish
Thanks.
Babcock is, for me, a symptom.
The last “strong opinion” I heard from Draisaitl that sounded like “leadership” was his wanting to be a Selke candidate. From McD, that he was going to score more.
McD delivered, arguably at team expense? Drai, not sure what happened.
“Couldn’t be bothered” is an ugly take, but that’s more or less what the two of them gave us, end of season.
Supposing MB is cleared for coaching, and has learned from his past, will he be effective without the toolbox he used previously? I don’t know the answer to that. I feel that it may turn out to be the same as though the Oilers hired a less experienced coach.
That’s the million dollar question. The more we chat here about it, the more reports of people speaking up, the more it seems like it’s now under 50/50 it happens
That’s pointing things right at the core players of the leadership group. That’s a fair assessment. Does anyone think the coach okayed them to take the regular season off?
McDavid won the Ted Lindsay award, Draisatl scored at 1.5 point a game pace. Is that taking the season off?
Good question. And McDrai answered it at the end of the season: they didn’t take it seriously enough.
McD can win Art Ross and Lindsay on what he calls an “average” team.
Draisaitl will be close behind, on an “average” team.
When these two step up and play 200 feet, they get to within a goal of the Cup, they waltz through Vegas and the Stars.
When these two, two of the best in the world, play like leaders, they lift their team to above average. We saw glimpses, but only glimpses, this season.
Both have admitted their overall games were not good enough this year – their commitment to do what needs to be done, in all areas of the game, on a consistent basis.
McDavid is one of the best point producers of all time and that is so very valuable but he played with almost no structure in the defensive zone, constantly puck chasing and leaving position and leaking goals against because.
They essentially admitted they did no respect the regular season.
I agree with you .If the leadership group on this team needs a bully to do what they are given the responsibility to do as captains then we need to rethink the captainships of this team ..They were able to abdicate this responsibly in past years to folks like Kane and Perry. A case could be made that Holland saw this weakness in his leadership group when he brought them in and Stan did not by letting those skill sets leave. It seems he now wants to replace that loss with a bully coach .Might be a worse call then his free agent mistakes.
I’ve asked elsewhere here, today, about what qualifies à player to wear a letter. And who are good examples of letter-wearing players, Oilers historically, league currently. I’d love to hear your thoughts. My sense is that this can make a difference in long term team success. But I’ve never played hockey. I’m looking at it from an organizational leadership perspective.
Most successful teams seem to name the player that has the respect of “all” the players in the room during good and bad times. I think that Vegas has that in Stone. But many times the management award the C to one of the stars and that may or may not work out McDavid, Mathews come to mind as players that some of the grinders etc may just tune out but they didn’t tune out Perry .Maybe that is why other teams keep giving Perry new contracts even at 40. IMO It cant always be the coaches to fill that role . It has to come from the players in the room. Even KK admitted that in an interview.
One example that has always intrigued me is the 80’s oilers. Yes Gretzky was anointed the C and was a great on ice leader much of the time. But the REAL captains on those teams were Messier and K Lowe. When they spoke everyone in the room listened..
Im not sure this rendition of the oilers has those personalities in the room .
In business some of the greatest corporate leaders came up through the ranks and are respected by all levels of the organization. They can speak the various languages and know all the functions because they have actually done them and can relate to challenges of the task.
Thanks. It’s been a bit of a puzzle, how and why a team would freight a near-teen with the weight of a C. Not fair to him, or the team, I would think.
It’s called burnout.
Good call!
Unfortunately, while burnout and injury crippled this team from the opening game, instead of supporting each other, handling frustrations behind closed doors, immaturity meant things were said publicly, pissy body language and attitudes were aired, an impatient owner had fuel for his impatience, and now we’re here.
There is another team that fell even further from grace this past season. No visible or audible rumblings of discontent from team leadership. No impatient owner requiring heads to roll. No post-season drama. I’m not a fan of that team. I do, however, respect their patience and humility in the face of burnout and injury and a very, very disappointing season.
Well said and good observations
Having 2 extremely short off-seasons in an Olympic year lead to Connor-Leon running out of gas like the Panthers did. I blame the coach for pounding an injured Connor and Leon in the series against Anaheim. He should have leaned on the healthy players. The benching of Frederic who was playing well showed me K.K didn’t have the right pulse of the team.
I’m not sure any coach (Maurice, Cassidy, Knoblauch) will have the “right pulse” of a team struggling as the Oilers (or FLA, or Vegas) were. I am, however, pretty sure that what happened here in Oilerville (the panic owner-driven coach debacle) was definitely a “wrong pulse” move.
Vegas may have benefited from firing Cassidy. I doubt FLA even thought about firing Maurice. We have no idea what Vegas does next year. The pundits are pretty sure FLA (w Maurice) will be a contender next year.
Successful teams are fragile. Expectations are very high. The proverbial “McD window” —is it opening, or closing, or? The Oilers are successful, but will they weather this? And will the weathering, if it happens, last?
LT waxed warmly about Sather’s ability to find “10-year solutions.” That’s what I’m looking for: what hockey org or mind is finding or creating 10-year solutions?
The Oilers got to the SCF two years in a row. This was always going to be a year of transition. Is this a transition to another six-eight years of success? Or was that squandered because the owner or GM didn’t like how Fred was handled? Or needed someone to publicly wear the humiliation (as opposed to the humility) of being a good team, burnt out and injured, and playing “average?”
OR McDavid and Dri put on pressure with management to play big minutes >
The players are being used as patsies for this because Babcock fled rather than face an investigation in Columbus.
The players are being used as patsies because Jackson and Bowman are incompetent and failing at their jobs.
The players are being used as patsies to justify the owner interfering in the coaching decision instead of firing Jackson and Bowman.
The players are being asked to save everyone else from their failures.
The players are being used as patsies for this because they didn’t play well enough last year and would not commit to “doing the hard things” needed to win on a consistent enough basis and got their coach fired.
👏
Another example of the player leaders not taking their responsibilities seriously .
How can he be the right guy if the NHLPA wants the NHL to complete a full investigation on him before being hired as an NHL coach? Full disclosure is required once that occurs he may never be allowed to coach anywhere.
I’m not sure why a potential investigation in to past actions would in itself make it certain he’s not the right guy. Perhaps he’s not the right guy. Perhaps it has nothing to do with what is being investigated or perhaps it does. Perhaps he is the right guy and we’ll find out in apx a year. I don’t know.
There are certain flawed personalities you don’t want anywhere near your young people or staff .Full stop
They like the idea of Babcock, minus all the baggage, which they will discover more and more, whether they like it, or not. Sure the players leadership group pummelled Babcock with questions, I’m sure he told them exactly what they wanted to hear as well as the rest of the organization , he’s a totally honest fellow with plenty of integrity.
The man talks about himself in the third person. That is not good.
LT, please safe from this madness and post about the draft.
It’s our comfort zone, our “happy place”.
Don’t care about the Oilers limited picks, I want names and projections good sir.
Heck, give us your top 32.. 33 while your at it.
Save us LT, you’re our only hope.
Everyone in hockey is openly laughing at the Oilers.
Everyone.
They know silly and desperate when they see it. Oilerdom will keep up the Apologist shtick until morale improves.
We hoped for the best and it turned out like always.
Nothing was finer than beating the mighty Red Wings in that unbelievable 3rd period in game 6 at home. The camera continuously showing Holland and Babcock wheels turning in deep thought and how everything went wrong for them that series. Never liked Holland who had Pizza-Pizza money coming out his ass attracting the CCCP finest. Same goes for Babcock he always looked so miserable and arrogant. Babcock may be a jerk and Bowman may of had a silver spoon growing up but neither one is a criminal. If Babcock is the next coach I’ll cheer for him-Bowman to finally get my team number 6.
I know it seems like Babcock is a done deal. I’m a bit surprised that Claude Julien hasn’t gotten a single mention as a possibility.
I’m sure he was, the news just doesn’t care about typical hires, they want the juicy stories.
The last time someone hired Babcock the GM was fired shortly after. Hopefully this goes the same way, except Babcock is not actually hired.
After the Blackhawks situation, what I really don’t get, is this Elliote Friedman quote: “So the league just said there’s no point in having an investigation. I think everybody felt at that time Babcock was going to retire and we weren’t going to see him in a head coaching role again. Well, now that this has come up, the Players Association has said, ‘Hold on a second. There was supposed to be an investigation that never happened because Babcock resigned. Now we want it to happen. He shouldn’t be able to come back without that investigation.'”
https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/edmonton-oilers/latest-news/this-could-get-ugly-nhl-moving-forward-with-mike-babcock-investigation
Why? Why not investigate? Because someone is retiring?
I blame the NHL and NHLPA for not pushing the issue sooner.
And not just for CBJ, the Franzen and Commodore stories alone were each worthy of investigation. But the serial nature of this, at every stop, after what happened in Chicago, absolutely should have warranted investigation. He should have been investigated before being allowed to sign in CBJ, frankly.
Bowman had to have his redemption, had to go through the process of reflection. There has never been any honest reflection on the part of Babcock, at least publicly. That to me is the biggest red flag, and I could care less what he has told the leaders. If anything, that concerns me more, that the leaders and the rookies and the fringe players are not all on board, and that the leaders have not been noted to have engaged the rest of the team.
That includes Hyman, as much as I love the guy – if he was a driving force (and no one knows at this point, it is speculation) – one can be grateful to Babcock for mentoring and supporting his career, while acknowledging the harm he did to others is of greater concern to the team’s overall health
There was no knowledge of any process of reflection with Bowman until he was hired and he was questioned on it, right?
For all we know, same with Babcock, right
This is false.
Not only did Bowman admit the errors of his ways but world actively on redemption.
Worked with Sheldon Kennedy: Bowman spent his time away from the NHL working extensively with former NHL player Sheldon Kennedy and his organization, Respect Group, which focuses on preventing bullying, abuse, harassment, and discrimination.
Education and Reflection: The NHL stated that Bowman utilized his time away to acknowledge his previous failures and demonstrate sincere remorse. Kennedy gave a full endorsement of Bowman’s educational efforts, which proved vital in Bowman getting his job back.
Direct Apology to Kyle Beach: Bowman personally reached out and held a 90-minute conversation with Kyle Beach to apologize for the mishandling of the 2010 situation and the trauma he experienced.
Has Babcock done anything like this or is he still in denial as some have reported?
None of this was known until around his hiring.
For all we know, Babcock is doing various similar type things – probably not but we did not know what Bowman was doing prior to him being reinstated in to the NHL.
This is starting to read a bit like Hyman and Kapanen may have gone to the big dogs at some point and said something along the lines of “Ya know, Mike wouldn’t have stood for this kinda shit…”
That doesn’t really take into account that on so many nights, it was the Oilers’ stars who were dogging it in the regular season, even during wins…but I mean it is a hockey team and things like the above do happen.
The Oilers stars want a coach to push them harder – this isn’t about getting the depth to play harder, its about everyone, including the generational star(s).
And it will be interesting to see how the generational star(s) react when pushed for the first time since….ever? These kids are pretty coddled these days.
The Oilers stars were infact not dogging it, McDavid won the art Ross, Bouchard had an historic season, Leon was Leon.
Milage and injuries dogged the Oilers.
The coach icing lineups to piss off management was dogging it.
The stars dragged them to the playoffs.
McDavid won the Art Ross but he was clearly not firing on all cylinder for large parts of the season (mostly his “away from the puck game” but also his offensive game) and he even admitted that himself in no uncertain words.
100% they rode the stars to the playoffs, these are some of the game’s all-time best but McDavid and Drai were not at their best 2-ways and in all aspects on the season in aggregate.
Does Mike mold Bouchard into a Norris trophy winner? Does Jarry bounce back playing over 50 games with a 908 or better save percentage? I didn’t like the hire at first but now I’m kinda getting excited for this year. I do think Mike will bring consistency to a team that couldn’t win 3 in a row last year. If Mike can guide us to a Cup this year or next I think we resign Connor-Bouchard.
Does Mike pressbox Nurse the moment he does a starfish? Or does Nurse ask the Oilers to trade him before he lands in Babock’s doghouse?
Nurse hardly “starfished” this past seasons as compared to some prior seasons.
Sometimes that is coached. Rob Brown, for example, has stated many times that he hated it when the d-men went down as it took away his options.
It doesn’t matter who the coach is … the Oilers will never win a Cup with Darnell Nurse in their lineup. Flopping on your belly is not playing D. Half-heartedly dropping one knee to the ice while simultaneously turning the rest of your body to provide a slimmer profile is how pucks deflect off your shins and into your own net.
He sucks at the thing that he is getting paid to do … be a defenseman.
If hiring Babcock is the thing that gets Nurse to waive his NMC, than hire him ASAP.
The Oilers had seasons with 15 and 14 playoff win (and likely deserved 16 in the one year as they were the better team in game 7) so this statement is essentially a emotion/narrative driven falsehood as a blanket statement.
Bouchard has already molded in to a left Norris Trophy contender – and he is still improving.
Jarry’s bounce-back to those levels is somewhat reasonable if the team in front of him commits to playing a consistent struured game while managing the puck and not leaking terrible rush chances against and wide open slot shots off a low to high play nightly.
I’m trying to think what the positives of hiring Babcock. We do have a solid D if Babcock can tighten it up I do think Bouchard-Nurse-Ekholm-Walman-Jarry-Cossa will be the beneficiaries of a system more friendlier on the Goalies. I’m going to pick Bouchard to win the Norris over Schaefer and Hughes.
With a full season playing for Minnesota and the likelihood they add a 1st line centre like Dylan Larkin (they’ve already made an offer) Hughes will be very tough to beat.
And let’s remember Schaefer is still only 18…he’s going to get a LOT better, bigger, stronger and faster.
He’s just getting started.
22 year old Lane Hutson too.
You know, for a franchise that should have a singular, unwavering, laser-focus on one thing entering this season: Winning the Cup, they have sure done their fair share of causing a ton of unnecessary distractions. Speculation, leaks, miss-steps galore.
The management/ownership of this organization is fast approaching circus-sideshow levels of embarrassment. Great timing, knowing full well this may very well be their final run at the Cup.
Oh to be an Oiler fan, the greatest of all self-tortures.
been that way for 20 years???
Who ever came up with the idea to consider Babcock needs to watch the episode of Seinfeld where George embraces the opposite. If every idea they have has been wrong, then the opposite must be right. Lets get the opposite of Babcock.
That was Knoblauch. Mild mannered, calm to a tee, not a lick of smarm or personal ego.
His message grew stale all the same.
Tough when you don’t have the gab like Maurice and Cooper.
I think that was why he ran into trouble pretty soon. That gift is what puts those two into the top tier, ability to convince and lead. They both also don’t seem to over react to the situation and know when to leave space and when to lean in
I’d love a young, up and coming, brilliant head coach that no one’s ever heard of…but that would require scouting and the Oilers don’t seem to bother.
Give that coach a loud, veteran assistant coach with street cred and plenty of “in my day” stories, then an Xs and Os geek who’s intent on knowing every system and how to beat it for the other AC.
You mean like when they hired Jay Woodcroft and then Kris Knoblauck?
I’ve long suspected that in terms of their internal dynamic, the Oilers aren’t a true team. They’re a couple Uber rich superstars and the rest.
For this power imbalance to work, the two superstars have to go out of their way to avoid optics that tip the scales in their favour. This means avoiding influencing the GM or owner on trades, signings, and draft picks. This means avoiding influencing the coach on ice time, linemates, shift length, defensive effort, etc.
Most importantly it means your superstars have to set a constant consistent example for the rest of the squad. When you’re being paid 2x 3x or 4x what your teammate is, you can’t shirk or cheat for offense. The minute you coast you’re giving permission for everyone else to do it. It’s human nature. We don’t bust our hump as a middle manager if the CEO is phoning it in.
Is this the Oilers problem?
If so, are #97 and #29 hoping Babcock will treat them like garbage like everyone else? Seems like a drastic measure to take when you could just commit to being a consistent and conscientious pro.
I think you’re looking at that backwards. The stars on the team don’t seem to think they are the problem and they want to bring someone in to keep those bottom of roster slackers in line.
The top/core of the team wants to avoid the optics that the tail is wagging the dog but if reports of them actually meeting with Babcock are true, then they very much want that control.
The stars of the ARE the leadership group. If they have an issue with the “try” in the bottom six that’s on them. If it’s not the try, but the talent, that’s on the GM. Running of the team by a handful of stars and an owner can’t be the right way to do things.
If McDavid and Draisaitl think they need an ahole like Babcock to crack the whip on the rest of the team, and I am highly skeptical that is what is actually going on here, then the leadership core of this team is likely beyond repair and a drastic move like this is doomed to fail.
The minute you set yourself above or apart from your teammates, you have lost all claims to being a true leader imo.
Players in the leadership group sure seem to think that’s what’s going on. That the top players are blaming the bottom players. Which is normal even though it isn’t good.
https://oilersnation.com/news/friedman-lots-of-talk-edmonton-oilers-tristan-jarry-teammates-getting-into-it-practice
it’s possible that McDavid and Leon have never been bluntly told that their on again, off again commitment to playing 200 ft hockey is the reason why their teams have never won a Cup … given that he really has nothing to lose, maybe Babcock said that to their faces, and they came way with the impression that Mike was their guy.
There isn’t any indication they are limiting this need to “the rest of the team” – they include themselves.
I think we’ve been here before. When a “leader” says “we need to be better,” they’re not leading. They’re hiding in the pack.
Leaders always need to taking 100% responsibility when they’re public-facing. No hiding. No, “from the coaches etc.”
Privately, they can talk about the “we.”
Publicly, the leader takes the hit, when things aren’t right. Privately, they lead the fixing of things.
This season has been a case study in weak team leadership. It’s the most disappointing thing, for me as a fan, to watch.
and you can have your opinion the narrowness of what a leader is permitted to say
Anyone wanna start a pool on who the next controversial “Head Coach with a cup” option is if Mike Babcock decides he doesn’t want to be investigated?
Our options appear to be these:
Craig Berube
Barry Trotz
Darryl Sutter
Claude Julien
Dan Bylsma
Randy Carlyle
John Tortorella
Scotty Bowman
Bob Hartley
Larry Robinson
Ken Hitchcock
Marc Crawford
Mike Keenan
Jacques Demers
Terry Crisp
Glen Sather
Jean Perron
Harry Sinden
The Ghost of Toe Blake.
Tie-breaker in the pool is if you can correctly guess the controversy and it isn’t “way too old”
My personal choice is Bob Hartley and the controversy is that he hit John Tortorella with a chair before he could interview with the Oilers.
Also, Torts isn’t sticking around in Vegas……https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/john-tortorella-announces-departure-during-150457293.html
Every few hours it gets more wild. Who is Vegas going to hire? I doubt Cassidy would return. They have gone for tough motivational types mostly, and been true to form ditching them. Whose left?
If the Babcock investigation derails things bcs of the new revelations I think the league might decide to use leverage. It’s not good for the quality and image of the league that a top coach is sidelined regardless of contracts. The best players and people should be working for the best product
I’ve heard that Vegas had the intention of hiring Ryan Craig who is the HC of their AHL team to be the new head coach. I don’t think they thought they’d end up in the cup final when they brought in Tortorella but it sounds like he was told from Day 1 that it was temporary. I think you only do that if you’re either planning an extensive search or you have someone lined up.
I think you’re right about the league leaning on Vegas to release Cassidy. It would make sense for Vegas to hold on to him to keep other teams coaching searches open but it doesn’t make a ton of sense to compete with EDM/TML for the best available coach without using Cassidy to remove a competitor.
Maybe they will hire Knoblauch just to screw with the Oilers some more.
You beat me to it!
Knoblauch
That’s interesting. Vegas is too focused on the SCF to sign a release letter for Cassidy, but not too busy to discuss Torts not sticking around.
It sounds like they told him that during the regular season and he seemed to have some knowledge of how the process will play out from the start.
That could change with recent developments though.
We should do Torts for a year, and then transition to Cassidy
Torts, the Oilers should hire Torts. He’s got cred, he’s strict and he knows how to beat Vegas and the Avs….
Can’t understand why so many are going full DSF/DDF/HH/Fibberwhatever over speculation?
There’s sweet nada about Babcock being officially hired, sure Stauffer went over the top blowing smoke but until there’s an official release that he’s been hired it’s all for naught.
As a few others have posted, I really believe this a huge FU to the league for all the crap that been thrown the Oilers way over the years.
There’s also sweet nada that this is some clever conspiracy by the Oil to get back at the league so what’s your guff with people voicing something reported and making it clear they don’t like it?
It’s proactive. I don’t want a bomb to drop and then say hey that was bad. I’d rather they just don’t drop the bomb. Less people exploded that way.
Good point.
Folks can voice their thoughts, I’m sure as hell not going to say they can’t. But to start getting to the point of going overboard… take a step back.
I totally understand that the “presumed” hiring would be upsetting and pisses off a lot of people.
There’s being a fan and then there’s going too far.
I agree with this. There is too much there to believe that the Oilers aren’t at least seriously considering this move. We know that they asked the NHLPA about it, we know that the NHL has been asked to investigate and that the NHL has laid out the process for the Oilers. Hockey talk is all about hypotheticals and particularly the ones that are most likely to happen.
He hasn’t been hired but that is literally the next step. Speak now or forever hold your peace as it’s the only real opportunity to signal to the team that the fan base does not support this. They may or may not listen but now is the time.
Why does it have to be Babcock? Dan Muse was hired in Pittsburgh and he was able to coach Crosby, Malkin, Karlsson, and Letang better than Sullivan did at the end.
The Oilers owner has a “buy IBM” problem. Jackson and Bowman have a “buy IBM” problem. The Oilers have achieved “buy IBM’ results.
“Increasingly bizarre management”
It’s looking more an more like the NHL is going to save Edmonton ownership from themselves. If anything the owners should fire themselves IMO.
You sure you want the Owner to unload the team?
Be careful what you wish for
Of course you know that would never happen .
Maybe the oilers version of Sullivan/ muse was woody/ kk. And now they’ve decided to go a completely different direction.
May not work with your context, but in this situation, comparing it to IBM would leave me believe it’s an Irritable Bowel Movement.
The situation stinks and is painful.
Can the Oilers get Cassidy to pass along who his coaching staff will be and hire them all? Have his top assistant take the reigns until he’s given his freedom?
Great question! That would be something. Unfortunately, I have little faith in the NHL allowing that to happen.
How could the NHL stop it? Unless his staff is also contractually blocked I fail to see how it could be stopped.
Possible tampering? History tells us the NHL finds ways to penalize the Oilers.
A media outlet could interview Cassidy and ask him about who his staff would be in his dream scenario, then the Oilers could act and make it a reality as best possible.
Send a couple of 3rd round picks to Calgary to smooth things over.
That would be taking it to another level. I like it. The NHL would probably exact a 3rd round pick for every coach hired.
Why would any assistant coach sign with the Oilers when they don’t have any assurance Cassidy will be Head Coach?
Or worse…
Because Cassidy has relayed who his staff will be when either Vegas releases him or his contract ends and he’s free to sign on as head coach assuming the role from his Assistant.
Everyone would be assured in my scenario.
Why do you comment on a blog about a team you hate with the majority of posters have you muted?
The Oilers building Cassidy’s staff and setting up everything for him to turn the key and take over makes a world of sense if Cassidy and the Oilers want the marriage, this isnt hard to grasp.
If this team does hire Babcock, it’s inevitable the fanbase will be split on this between fans that believe in “winning whatever the cost” vs fans who value winning but also want to cheer for a team that they can be proud of from a moral/ethical pov. The former can be rationalized and defended but there is zero argument that the latter is a much better fan experience. And given this City’s investment in the arena, I would actually argue a portion of this franchise is a public trust and it’s contingent upon the Oilers to operate in a fashion that the majority of it’s citizens can be onboard with.
Sports isn’t just about winning. It’s also about the lessons it teaches us about teamwork and perseverance and giving back to the community. Maybe Babcock is another Kane or Bowman, and the Oilers can be characterized as the franchise of second chances. But to my eyes, it sure looks like Babcock was given his second chance in Columbus and his true colours as a dictatorial bully quickly revealed themselves.
“Sports isn’t just about winning. It’s also about the lessons it teaches us about teamwork and perseverance and giving back to the community.”
Hear hear! I watch the games for entertainment, athletic excellence, etc. I am a fan of the club because they seem to embody character, leadership, gravitas (there it is again).
Well, maybe not so much gravitas – but certainly honour and integrity.
I doubt it would have any meaningful impact on ticket sales or merchandise.
What does have an impact? Winning and losing.
Yes, I’m well aware that the priorities that our culture incentivizes and rewards are completely misaligned with what’s actually best for people. Lots of Gordon Geckos out there thinking “greed is good.” That’s where this zero sum “winning is all that matters” mindset takes root.
For the past 3 weeks everyone has been envious of how ruthless the Vegans are. Now, nearly everyone is fretting over the Oilers might not be nice, or moral, enough.
I don’t think “everyone” means what you think it means.
It sure does in this context
There are many that believe that Babcock is also nowhere near the solution for “just win, baby”.
There is almost nothing indicating he’s the best coach available.
Seravalli posed a very interesting question in a media hit earlier today.
He questions why Babcock is interested in pursuing this job considering his age and the tens of millions he pocketed from his time in Toronto?
Given his cup ring, gold medals et al and his accumulated wealth, what exactly is he trying to prove here while opening up a plethora of old wounds?
Doesn’t seem rational,
Why does Cassidy want to coach right away? He’s got a ring and will make $4.5MM to not work this season
Why was an 80+ year old Doug Mitchell walking around the halls of my last law firm in a full suit and tie on already having a board room named after him when he could be enjoying his Order of Canada with his wife, the former Lieutenant Governor of Alberta?
Some people want to work, in particular after dedicating a lifetime to their craft.
What an odd post and silly point.
Take it up with Frank.
As far as I know, Doug Mitchell has not repeatedly been accused of impropriety and neither has Cassidy.
Babcock has left a trail of carnage behind in Detroit, Toronto and Columbus and apparently more is about to surface.
What a brain dead post.
No, I’m taking it up with the person that posted the “interesting question”.
The question is who does a career hockey coach want to pursue one of the top hockey coaching jobs in the worlds – its not an interesting question.
If anything, the history could be more fodder to pursue a new job and salvage reputation with a “job well done”.
Yup, brain dead is a legit descriptor here.
Connor Murphy is an interesting topic in regards to 2RHD.
On the one hand, I want him signed as he was good in that role last year, but at the same time, if an upgrade becomes available at the trade deadline, I would send him packing.
Does Connor Murphy get a NMC or NTC in his contract if he signs with the Oilers?
Connor Murphy has a chance to turn out to be the defense version of Henrique.
He fit in well down the stretch and in playoffs. Same as Henrique when first acquired.
Even a 5mil x 2 year contract is risky in the wrong way in my opinion.
I’d rather take the risk the other way with a Kesslering type.
The lower the $ the higher probability of a NTC
Of the 50+ UFA defenceman this summer, about 30 are RHD. I do think it makes sense to explore what is available, particularly if Murphy wants a contract at full freight.
If Murphy is willing to take a significant discount on a short contract, there is less need to look around. If not, they need to evaluate and make their decision relatively quickly.
There’s been so much facepalm-worthy content in Oil Country this week we may all need to enter concussion protocol.
🏆 Best Comment of the Morning
I wonder how much of the Babcock conversation is 1) the Oilers preparing for the event of Cassidy potentially not being made available or 2) the Oilers using Babcock to create “smoke” in the ranks of the NHL so that they intervene and help make Cassidy available. I lean towards 2 because they can’t seriously be that tone deaf to actually consider Babcock as an option can they?
I wish it were 2 but I’m afraid it’s 1.
This Oilers management team just aren’t that clever.
I think that they are really considering him as an option but I’m not entirely convinced that the decision isn’t revenge based. Like, “oh, we can’t talk to Cassidy? How about we become the biggest news story during the cup finals?” kind of thinking.
I don’t think it’s a “make Cassidy available” but it could be a “I will burn this mother down”
The owner might be that tone deaf, or it could be genius that they’ve set this process in motion to shake things up a little.
Even if the NHL investigates and finds that Babcock ran a dog fighting ring, or some other terrible thing, is there actually any thing concrete stopping the Oilers from hiring Babcock?
Does the NHL or NHLPA actually have the power to stop the hiring?
They do as an investigation was apparently warranted and not done because he resigned
They have the ability to suspend Babcock. Rick Tocchet was caught and plead guilty to involvement in a sports gambling ring. He was effectively suspended for two years but has since been the head coach of 4 teams.
The NHL/NHLPA can’t technically prevent the hiring so much as prevent the coaching. The NHL has the power to suspend or expel Babcock from the league should the Oilers hire him. I think what happens next really depends on whether Babcock wants to go through an investigation and public outing of what he’s done while risking suspension. He wasn’t willing to in 2023 so he might not be now.
Questions to the wiser ones here (wiser than me about hockey, which is all of you, no doubt):
What qualifies a player to wear the C or A?
Who are, in your opinion, the C’s in Oilers history who best represented these qualifications?
Who are, in your opinion, the best C’s in today’s NHL?
I have my own list, but it’s drawn from notions of leadership that seem to be out of sync with what I’m seeing with this team. I’m thinking I must be out of sync, generally, with what a C or A means in the NHL.
Fun topic. I’d put Corson and Ferrence at the bottom of the list.
Weight and j smith at the top after the more obvious choices.
What did you like about Weight, J.Smith, as Captn’s?
Both warriors and team first guys. Seemed to both be able to drag others into the battle.
From a distance also seemed like excellent humans.
Thanks
— for the C same as it ever was : the best player on the team (unless in first few years of career)
— I’m sure some exceptions but generally the highest paid player or on an emerging team it’s the 1st overall that end up C.
— growing up playing hockey and today with my kids it’s the same : “you score the most”. Then you are captain”
The qualification is then simply “best player?”
Your favourite Cs?
NHL intending to investigate Babcock reads, “NHL protecting the Oilers from themselves”.
If we ever needed more evidence that this organization has learned absolutely nothing since McDavid’s arrival, I present exhibit W.
Babcock hasn’t coached a regular season hockey game in 6 years. He hasn’t won a playoff series since 2013. He’s never won anything without hall of fame Dmen and goalies on the ice simultaneously (Lidstrom-Hasek in Det, Neidermayer, Pronger, Doughty, Weber, Price, and Brodeur/Luongo for Canada). To my eye, those teams relied on immense talent rather than exceptional deployment.
He see this as Tippet 2.0. Maybe a bit more upside but not a fit for this team and beyond significant controversy around his character.
If you somehow think this is anywhere near an ideal hire, I’d like to point out that Cassidy(would cost assets), Roy, Berube, and hell, even McTavish are alive and looking for work! Berube (who I think isn’t the right guy) has a cup to his name, more recent, and has won playoff series more recently. That’s a superior option to Babcock. Why? Because he isn’t (yes allegedly by a plethora of players) a POS!
and looking to play a more button-down style?
surround Roy or whomever with a bench staff of Hiller (whom the Oil supposedly interviewed), or see if you coax Mike Peca out of Chicago, heck Bob Boughner was with Roy in NY, Dean Evanson is out there… so many more options available
Wouldn’t it be something if this organization has learned something along the way? Creating a distraction from the Stanley Cup Finals with the idea of hiring MB is a big ol’ Johnny Cash bird flip to Vegas for [checks notes] everything they’ve ever done, to Carolina for 2006 and the Anton Forsberg situation, and to the league for the multiple screw jobs. Of course, that also then disrespects the Stanley Cup, which is not a good idea. But maybe, just maybe, it is a sign of the team becoming more capable of doing what it takes to win… a bit more Machiavellian.
For the record, I don’t like the idea of MB as the coach, but it would be something if this was a ruse.
Waaaaaayyyyyyy too much fuss and bother for a guy with a bad rep and a cobwebbed LinkedIn page.
Want a coach with a ring who’ll be fiery and demand more of your players? I’ve got a Mr. Roy on line one.
I wasn’t on board with Roy as Head Coach but it sounds better and better every day.
Doesn’t Roy also have a bad rep?
Babs intimidated professional hockey players. Roy intimidated his wife until she called 911 and said she was scared of him.
Just like last year when everyone not connected to Oilerdom was laughing at us for running back Stu/Pic’s literally everyone not connected to the team is going “what in the hell are you guys thinking???”
Obvious to everyone else it would seem.
Curious about the terms of Cassidy’s agreement with the Kniggits… can they still block him from interviewing fot a promotion? Perhaps as HC /VP of Hockey Ops/Coaching Development? Is that a workaround?
Maybe yes or no but it’s unlikely the Knights hold on to Cassidy much past the SCF. I don’t think the Oilers interest in Babcock is a ruse but it might get nixed anyways. It’s really unlikely that Vegas just holds on to Cassidy and pays him $4.5M for nothing if they don’t have to.
If you had more money than good for you and a firm desire to win at all costs. What’s 4.5 million to ensure your division rival and first hurdle to cups has dysfunctional coaching? If I was the owners in Vegas I would keep sending Cassidy a cheque unless he goes east.
I’ve dealt with multiple billionaires in my career and not a single one would be flippant with a $4.5MM expense and, of course, there is every chance this move by Vegas does not have any sort of negative effect. For all we know (and all they know, Cassidy would be a terrible hire for the Oil).
Forgot to respond to some folks on last thread. Still MB connected so figure it’s fine.
dangilitis: Franzen was not a core guy. Modano was at the end of his line, Marner was 19 hence ‘young’. Corey Perry was as much a core guy last year as Modano. When MB was with him he was not a driver anymore.
Ranford 85: The point is the MB is a really good salesman. Narcissists can be charismatic when they want something from you. I also think you’re giving 97 too much credit on his assessment of character. Being good at hockey doesn’t mean anything regarding character assessment. Ask golden boy Johnny Toews. I believe you that Leon would protect players, but why are we even opening the door for that type of abuse, which this guy has done over multiple teams. Why would we put Leo in a situation where he’d have to do that. Just don’t hire the clown.
OP: No clue what your respect for 97 and 29 has to do with anything but the focus was on them okaying the hire. The Blue Jackets leaders did that too. Then MB did his bullying to the non-core. Good people can be fooled by people like Mike. Expecting your core players to police a coach is silly. Just dont hire.
Nailed. It.
Plus 1 on McD not being an adept judge of character. Since he was drafted, if he’s been involved in the Oilers management machine (gatekeeping hires and signings/trades), at least part of the results we see is a part of his meddling.
I, for one, welcome our new Babcockian overlord.
These waters keep getting murkier
Frank Seravalli
@frank_seravalli
If #Oilers elect to continue down the path with Mike Babcock, sources say the #NHLPA is in receipt of “significant” additional claims from their own investigation with players that were not publicly reported in 2023.
Those claims were presented to #NHL prior to his resignation.
I just saw that….
Also, per LeBrun:
and per Dreger:
One can only hope that MB withdraws his name so the Oilers can be saved from themselves.
That doesn’t bode well. I now won’t be surprised if he has to do some things before being allowed back as the others did. As in a year or two of it
Is this the plan to get nurse to waive his etc?
Yep – that’s what I’ve been thinking too.
I could see Nurse’s getting into Babcock’s doghouse quickly from his lack of defensive awareness.
Can’t believe people are blaming Bowman/Jackson/Coffey for this fiasco when it is that degenerate owner that is driving the bus.
The last time he meddled so directly we got Yakupov so there’s that…oh wait.
Better then Ryan Murray
If I was Coffey, I’d be resigning.
Coffey is a big part of the meddling
The owner is interfering because Jackson and Bowman have failed at their jobs, and so the owner is trying to do their jobs, instead of firing them.
*less than optimal, unless they are naming babcock as a coach.
She writes…”Dear Casey..”
I’ve brought up Kesselring before (and we all know I was a big fan while he was a Condor) but I’m not positive he’s the right target. I simply do not know if he’s a legit 2RD or a 3RD? I don’t know.
The Oilers have a legit 3RD – Ty Emberson is very good in that role. A strong defender and preventer of goals and a player they need to use more on the PK – he’s cheap and should remain cheap.
Is Kesselring an upgrade on Emberson? I don’t know – a completely different style of player – better pick mover and upside but can he defend as well? Is he what we need? Maybe if Murphy is back we can make the stylistic swap in behind.
Can Regula get to be a Kesselring?
The reason you get Kesselring is RH defensemen are unicorns. Someone will get hurt, or fall off in performance. I like Emberson plenty, wouldn’t mind seeing him get more time up the depth chart to be honest. Bringing in Kesselring means four RH and four LH defensmen the team can count on. I prefer Carfagna to Leppanen, but the point stands with either man.
Sure, I get that but, at the same time, cap space is cap space and is there cap space to have that depth. I would like to see Emberson with some time up the lineup as well but we have no certainty that would work. Lots of 3rd pairing d-men are great in that role but struggle when moved to the 2nd pairing – see Matt Benning.
Are you suggesting we bring in Kesslering and don’t sign Murphy? That’s a discussion that could be had.
I also prefer Carfagna – there is something about that young man that makes me think he can play in this league.
No, I’m suggesting the Oilers start the season with seven top-six defensemen. That way, when someone gets injured, the club doesn’t have to play a defender who is hurt (ala Kulak early last season).
Sure, that would be great – the salary cap may not agree though.
No thanks to this unless it’s an in-game emergency.
What does Emberson show you that leads you to think he’s a 2RD. What skills does he have at a 2RD level?
He’s a strong defender and goal preventer on the third pairing. All I said was I’d like to see him get some reps up the lineup to see how it goes. We don’t know until it gets tried.
If Regula can figure his skating out at the NHL level he will be a solid 3rd pair. If we assume the coach is MB, I’m not sure MK is a great fit. Murphy would likely be appreciated by MB, as would Dickinson because they play hard and play D. I hope they can keep both
And MB would actually hard match Dickinson and figure the right wingers out
If Regula hasn’t figured out his skating by now…
I’m still on the Desharnais train. Cheap, reliable, durable and physical.
I’d rather have Emberson than Vinny D.
I’m saying I want both, but if Vinny D is only there if Emberson goes, then I am with you, Emberson is the far superior D.
Then one of the has to be 7D which is fine depending on Vinny’s cap hit and, unless Nurse goes, leads to a waiving of Stastney (along with Regula).
Last night Staiff saying he hasn’t heard anything about Cossa – strongly implying that nothing is close there and rumours are overblown. He was clear that, for now, they are focussed on getting their coaching staff and stuff and want that done before left “team building” happens.
A point was brought up that if they hire MB it might make recruiting and trades harder. I take what agents or former ones say about what players think as the closest to the truth. Players won’t always say what they really think. But agents know obviously and can speak in general terms about it
Brian Lawton thinks it’s the opposite, it would attract players. I take his thoughts in because he has seen the NHL from all sides and is a smart fella. Players want to be the best they can be and any coach that can help or push them there they want. He says they see Babcock as that. The Oilers best players seem to think that
It’s all pretty weird, I would have preferred no drama and a top coach. But it is the Oilers, and doesn’t seem to happen that way
The issue is, you can’t take any of these voices at face value right now.
Too much messaging and spin and prepositioning rather than conversations, takes and facts.
As someone who works in one of the most messaged sorts of offices/jobs…they’re laying it on so thick you can get to what’s real right now, which would appear to be the point.
I would never let an issue be handled this way in my work world. It is not the right way to do business and build the credibility and trust that leads to success and support. I’m sure many others here would have the same take.
Then again, we’re not the audience…
I agree with you for many of them. I take seriously Stauffer who prepares ground and gives advanced warning for those type of things. Friedman seems to be a straight shooter and I don’t get a spin feel from him much, and for me Lawton because he doesn’t really gain anything with his takes on the Oilers except maybe a GC from Bob that he probably never uses
Most of the rest I take with a grain of salt
Rare but I fully agree with you. This is targeted campaigning and it’s meant to confuse and make people give up on finding the truth while they flood the channel so they can do what they want. Remember when we were getting Cossa 2 days ago?
Can’t trust anything they say but they honestly don’t care and we all know it.
I like the team, but calling it a ‘professional’ sports organization is a bit rich. None of this would (should) fly in a professional setting.
Agree. It’s also a leadership fail, from my perspective.
I’m interested: Who do you think is the audience for this post-season melodrama?
I’m not speaking specific to this drama with regard to that comment. I’m speaking generally on their approach.
The Oilers, like many businesses, non-profits, political organizations, and others routinely chase the wrong audience. They go after soft fans and those they believe could be part of their growth. And they set this as a primary.
This is wrong-headed. Casuals should never be your focus. Your base or core should be. When your core is happy, heard, and enthusiastic, they will draw in others for you with their passion and voice. This is because it is authentic, and coming from peers. Chasing those others while ignoring or reducing your base to second or third priority will result in you gaining almost nothing new and likely losing the enthusiasm, and ultimately participation of your most important audience.
I could go on for a long while about this…it is amazing how many allegedly intelligent people make this mistake, and then wonder why it all goes wrong.
I still remember Kevin Lowe and his “we have two tiers of fans” comment. He said the quiet part out loud. That the team looked to appease season ticket holders as they represent the biggest group of customers by dollar but smallest group by number.
I’d suggest that a lot of lower bowl/luxury suite “I know the ‘blank'” types are higher on Babcock than we realize and they have already made their voices heard.
We aren’t seeing mass cancellations of suites & season tickets yet. If we do, I’d think things would change very, very quickly.
Thanks.
Its possible that with Babcock the Oilers might attract players with a focus on winning, or at the very least prevent the signing of players who aren’t.
Think Jeff Skinner or Mangiapane sign with a team where Babcock is running the bench?
I don’t think we’ll be able to sign any free agents and ironically that may save the Oilers from themselves.
The silver lining!
I can see things dragging on with MB, but I can’t see that they would stop him from being hired in the end. He still has a very high profile and remains connected. He’s not under any other restrictions, so they can talk to him all they want to about what they are doing